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[–]Temascos 2710 points2711 points  (543 children)

It'll be interesting to see the developments in medicine over the next decade, the pandemic really spurred on research in a lot of different ways and hopefully will lead to major breakthroughs in treating diseases and maybe long term conditions.

The field of medical research goes way over my head a lot of the time but it is amazing what continues to be achieved.

[–]Djinnwrath 558 points559 points  (111 children)

If you look into the history of pandemics, you'll find there's usually a huge shift after one. The one in the early 1900s spurred all modern design for kitchens and baths to emphasize cleanability.

[–]aDrunkWithAgun 59 points60 points  (9 children)

Nothing like a massive disaster to drive innovation

[–]Bannedbookweek 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I mean yeah, that’s usually when the most change happens.

[–]Gooseman987 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The biggest was the black death. That changed the world and jumostarted science like someone dumped a clutch

[–]Tyler_Zoro 875 points876 points  (319 children)

the pandemic really spurred on research in a lot of different ways

mRNA took a long time to perfect. It certainly was not started during this pandemic. The idea first emerged in 1990 with an experiment on mice and it took until 2005 until it became a potentially viable way to produce vaccines.

Since 2005, efforts have been underway all over the world to create successful mRNA vaccines, so when COVID-19 hit, it was obvious that mRNA was going to be one of the approaches to trying to create a vaccine.

[–]Deep-Duck 160 points161 points  (103 children)

Wasn't the original intent for mRNA vaccines to target cancer though? With the pandemic shifting the focus to viruses?

[–]Hateitwhenbdbdsj 160 points161 points  (82 children)

Yeah, cus cancers are very different from person to person, and mRNA makes it a lot, lot easier to provide personalized healthcare (and having more options for more personalized healthcare will ultimately open up much, much better care for sick people)

[–]nemo69_1999 61 points62 points  (27 children)

Yeah it's crazy. I read that two people can have breast cancer but one is different than they other, and even if we call it cancer, it's like 12 different cancers.

[–]Sawses 91 points92 points  (10 children)

Cancer is basically a symptom.

There are a bunch of different ways for a cell to start runaway division. It's why some tumors are "benign" and can be more or less ignored and others will kill you within a year.

The beauty of mRNA is that when we pair it with our cheap genetic sequencing technology, you can tell if it falls in any of the known categories. If so, depending on the type of cancer we could devise a vaccine that will specifically train our bodies to kill the cancer but not the non-cancerous version.

[–]peparooni79 69 points70 points  (2 children)

My family has a genetic cancer condition called SDHB (stands for Succinate DeHydrogenase subunit B). My dad, grandfather, and uncle (who died from it in his 20s) all had it, and so do I. 50/50 shot of it being passed down, and we all lost the coin flip.

Basically, one of our alleles is defective, and so our bodies don't produce enough of an enzyme (Succinate Dehydrogenase) needed for the electron transport chain, which allows a buildup of a compound (succinate), which sets off a cascade of reactions that can lead to certain kinds of tumors (mainly kidney cancer, pheochromocytoma, and paraganglioma). I'm really hopeful that mRNA could be the ticket in our future to treat the deficiency and prevent the cancer from even forming in the first place.

[–]ChickenSpawner 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Saddening to hear, stranger. I admire your courage and positivity!

Without belief we would achieve nothing, and during hard times like the ones you're going through keeping hope up and working for a better tomorrow is both honorable and admirable! I wish you the best of luck

[–]hexydes 35 points36 points  (5 children)

I remember writing basically what you did and getting downvoted to oblivion. Cancer is just a word that humans invented to describe something, essentially negative runaway cell growth. There are lots of different underlying causes for this phenomenon, hence the reason there has been no "cure" for cancer. If anything, mRNA treatments (if they prove viability) are going to provide the perfect evidence of that, in that there will be lots of different targeted treatments for "cancer".

[–]Dogstarman1974 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Reddit is strange. I have written things I thought were uncontroversial and been downvoted to hell. Then a few weeks later someone says the same thing I did and has 100+ upvotes.

[–]Narren_C 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Depends on the sub. And the day of the week. And the temperature outside. And your zodiac sign.

[–]Some1Betterer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And even or odd number of characters. Also, punctuation.

[–]International_Jello 33 points34 points  (12 children)

That's why a "cure for cancer" isn't a realistic singular goal. It's like trying to find a cure for sneezing

[–]7heCulture 12 points13 points  (1 child)

A cure for cancer is a technique that allows the cheap and massive production of individually-targeted, and customized molecules to “destroy” or coerce the immune system to attack cancer cells. I don’t think it’ll ever be a one pill for everyone. It will be a custom built pill for each individual.

[–]gopher65 43 points44 points  (39 children)

mRNA is easy and cheap to produce, so these personalized therapies will eventually come down in price to reasonable levels.

[–]KindRepresentative1 13 points14 points  (12 children)

What makes it cheap and easy?

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Because it uses mRNA rather than full proteins like older technology vaccines it doesn't need a relatively long process of growing a large number of the intended virus to get those proteins, it's much quicker, and therefore cheaper to make in the long run.

I understand very little of the actual science behind it, but that's the layman's explanation I got from reading up on it.

[–]pitano 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Well most pharma products become cheap and easy to produce and will likely be available relatively cheap (unless someone holds the patent still or you live in the US I guess, see insulin).

What costs a lot more is the inital costs like research and development and the building the production chain, but these costs will eventually be amortized and then the product becomes cheaper.

mRNA vaccines are especially interesting because you can more or less "copy and paste" into it whatever it is you want to vaccinate against.

[–]Commander_Kind 10 points11 points  (4 children)

It injects RNA into your cells to produce the structures that antibodies can recognize instead of using an animal or animal cells in a lab.

[–]Swany0105 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Providing the body a targeted, proven attack method over the virus to ward off easily rather than providing a real virus that scientists purified , then kicked the shit out of assuming the body’s ability to finish the job. Which pretty much works but it’s clear where the future lies. In the modern medical miracle of mRNA tech. Not technically a miracle since it’s what all those billions of research dollars have been going to all these years. For people to deny the vaccines now is sheer lunacy.

[–]iamamcnugget 52 points53 points  (8 children)

*laughs in American healthcare and insulin prices

[–]Semi-Hemi-Demigod 32 points33 points  (9 children)

I can see a future where there are machines at pharmacies like blood pressure machines that will cure any cancer you might have. A robot will take a blood sample and analyze it for disease markers.

In a couple days a nasal spray arrives with a customized vaccine that will cure you of cancer. You just take a couple sniffs and you get on with life.

[–]ChesswiththeDevil 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Ok. Stick this one in your ear, this one in your mouth and this one in your butt.

follows instructions

Oops. No, I mean this one in your ear, this one in your mouth and this one in your butt.

[–]Talkat 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Welcome to Costco. I love you.

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 29 points30 points  (5 children)

Except it'll be more like it was in Elysium and only the rich have access to those machines.

[–]dgriffith 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Or people in countries with public health systems.

Their governing bodies will be all over that shit as soon as its technically viable. So much load could be taken off public health systems if you could cure a few common cancers. It's pretty much a financial win if the cost of a single person cured is less than a million dollars.

[–]Allgoviarera 51 points52 points  (0 children)

Biontech recently announced the start of phase 2 trials for melanoma treatment, so that's still on the table. https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-announces-first-patient-dosed-phase-2-clinical-trial/

Who knows how long it would have taken them to get there without the money and publicity from the Covid vaccine?

[–]Eruptflail 28 points29 points  (8 children)

I went to a talk in 2011 done by a guy doing research on mRNA treatments for cancer. It's crazy cool. The vaccine just made it much faster. All the red tape got blown away.

[–]hexydes 19 points20 points  (1 child)

It's going to be really exciting to watch the developments over the next decade with mRNA technology. I really feel like we just fast-forwarded 10 years in a year with the technology. It's not even just cancer, there are companies already looking to treat things like atherosclerosis, the common flu, etc. In 10-20 years, if everything pans out, there are going to be a lot of disorders that would have been a death sentence that will become a minor inconvenience.

[–]Tyler_Zoro 44 points45 points  (6 children)

Here's a Google Scholar search for papers on mRNA vaccines between 2000 and 2018. As you can see, there's quite a lot of work that was already going into the field.

It was very broad-spectrum research, with one paper describing the state of the art in, "enabling the development of prophylactic and therapeutic vaccines fighting diseases as diverse as infections and cancer as well as protein replacement therapies."

So basically, everything.

[–]Necoras 24 points25 points  (3 children)

20-30 years from basic research to commercial product is fairly standard. It is with electronics; it is with medicine. It's why it's silly that reddit gets upset that "we keep hearing about graphine/nanotubes/super batteries/other wonder material but nothing ever comes of it." These are all basic research demonstrations. Give it a decade or three and we'll see technological marvels.

[–]hexydes 16 points17 points  (0 children)

mRNA is going to be one of those fundamental technologies that 100 different things end up building off of. People need to stop trying to think if mRNA vaccines are more like the iPhone or the XBox, and instead look at it like the transistor. It's going to enable lots and lots of different treatments down the line.

[–]dandandanman737 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I believe that that's what BioNTech was working on before the pandemic.

They partnered with phizer to produce the vaccine

[–]Avestrial 341 points342 points  (166 children)

Sure, but there is no denying that the pandemic saw a massive increase in funding in this sector. The entire world’s economy depended on finding a solution as fast as possible. Research is started and unfinished or unfinished for decades all the time. I agree that we’re going to benefit from the pandemic focus on boosting medical research.

[–]WorkO0 73 points74 points  (45 children)

Yes, it got companies like Pfiser with its vast production, distribution, and money capacity on board. What the pandemic did was help accelerate the trials process with governments and vaccine producers working nonstop at full capacity for six months to do what usually takes years, even decades. The modern "Manhattan project" wasn't about inventing a new vaccine tech, it was about managing the logistics of testing whole countries of people at once and then producing and distributing billions of doses throughout the whole world within a span of a year.

[–]alohadave 72 points73 points  (35 children)

The modern "Manhattan project" wasn't about inventing a new vaccine tech, it was about managing the logistics of testing whole countries of people at once and then producing and distributing billions of doses throughout the whole world within a span of a year.

This to me, is the single most amazing thing about the pandemic. In less than a year, a highly effective vaccine was developed, tested, and distributed to millions of people.

[–]Khaki_Steve 34 points35 points  (27 children)

And yet we've got anti-vaxxers that will try to use that as a reason to not get the vaccine. Something I've heard more than once is: "I ain't trusting anything that took under a year to make, it can't be safe". Unfortunately, pointing out that the world's best people in the field have been working on this nonstop with an unlimited budget doesn't seem to sway them.

[–]NotObviousOblivious 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Not an anti-vaxxer but I think a lot of people's very reasonable reluctance on covid vaccines is exactly because of the speed. There has not been sufficient time to see long-term side effects or unintended consequences.

Lumping these people in with the genuinely crazy "anti-vax" crowd is disingenuous. They might have had all other vaccines but have a valid concern about this one.

[–]TheVenetianMask 18 points19 points  (4 children)

Man, we need a virus that can only be cured with fusion energy and space elevators.

[–]poppin_noggins 20 points21 points  (3 children)

It’s climate change

[–]memepolizia 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Doesn't kill people fast enough, and is incremental, so no urgency.

[–]cynniminnibuns 168 points169 points  (62 children)

Definitely. It’s important to recognize though that without the previous decades of research, no amount of money could have gotten us mRNA vaccines this fast. It’s especially important since many people are under the impression that it being “new” means they just pulled this idea out for the pandemic on a whim.

[–]hexydes 6 points7 points  (3 children)

mRNA vaccines are new just like how LED bulbs were "new" a few years ago. Like...yeah, it's new that you can buy an LED bulb off the shelf at Wal-Mart now, but we'd been working on the technology, and delivering it in other forms, for 40 years before that.

[–]afito 23 points24 points  (38 children)

It's also the railroading of the Biontech & Moderna tech to trials effective immediatel. Who knows how long things would have taken otherwise but now mRNA vaccines are proven to work insanely well and the risk for companies to push them is reduced. Because well, it works, and also works to scale.

[–]civilrunner 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Between increased in diagnostics and vaccines its definitely all very promising. Hopefully we'll see the FDA get an update as well to better support personalized medicine since its no longer a technology limiter at all.

mRNA delivery systems, rapid diagnostics, CRISPR, rapid and low cost gene sequencing, automation, and AI are all working together to create an incredibly agile healthcare response system that will massively transform the future. We could add cellular reprogramming and more that that as well for epigenetics/aging.

It's definitely a very exciting time.

[–]Gnonthgol 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Also note that the current corronavirus vaccines were not possible until 2017 when we invented a coronavirus spike protein that would maintain its structure in the absence of a lipid cell membrane. It will be interesting to see how they solve this for other viruses.

[–]ChildishForLife 19 points20 points  (10 children)

That’s why I think it’s so disheartening people say “wow they made it in a YEAR?”

Hell no, it took way longer.

[–]reality72 9 points10 points  (1 child)

The theory of using mRNA to create a vaccine actually originated in the 1970s. So it took about 50 years to go from just an idea to the first vaccines.

[–]LemonHerb 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I probably commented on a bunch of articles about the progress with snarky stuff like guess they cured cancer in mice again this week

[–]ForGreatDoge 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Are you sure it's not like a movie where scientists just create a new field in 90 minutes to solve a problem, with a giant light bulb above their heads when someone says a key word?

[–]Tyler_Zoro 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Only if there are two people using the same keypad on the front of the PCR machine...

[–]jollyjam1 68 points69 points  (15 children)

I read that the breakthroughs in medicine and biotechnology will probably be similar in scale to the space race, considering how much funding is going in that direction.

[–]The_Avocado_Constant[🍰] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

This is only one sector of biotech, but Walter Isaacson (famous author, former CEO and chairman of CNN) believes that Gene editing will be the new "computer programming" in terms of advancements in the field and desirable skill to learn.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (1 child)

Here and Canada we are going to make our own shit now. Jesus, thought we had learned something from SARS.

[–]SnowFlakeUsername2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's hard to make shit when the government privatizes everything or don't see the value in subsidies for domestic production of essentials. Companies do what they do and search the world for a better deal. I have no idea if this is the case for vaccine production but we went through 4 terms of a government that had a liquidation sale on everything from grain marketing to nuclear technology. I'm sure this rant is relevant somehow. People are shortsighted?

[–]Biffmcgee 58 points59 points  (23 children)

I really hope the cancer vaccine works and goes into production.

[–]tomdarch 30 points31 points  (12 children)

Viruses can be scary, but I'm more worried about anti-biotic resistant bacteria. We're fucked if we don't keep ahead of them.

[–]xinxy 30 points31 points  (4 children)

Lets unleash nasty bacteria killing viruses and let them fight against the antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Then when only the viruses remain, we destroy them ourselves.

There's absolutely no possible way this plan could ever backfire or have any unforeseen consequences.

[–]ElroxMusic 20 points21 points  (3 children)

That’s exactly what bacteriophages do, they basically replicate until a bacteria explodes, killing it. There’s a sort of experimental treatment that bombards an antibiotic resistant bacteria with antibiotics, which lowers its ability to defend itself from phages. Phages are then released, destroying the antibiotic resistant bacteria.

[–]Amy_Ponder 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Also, phages are only biologically capable of infiltrating very specific kinds of bacteria, so it's impossible for them to ever mutate to infect human cells.

[–]goodspeedmd 498 points499 points  (35 children)

I hope someone posted this already, but mRNA technology was already in development for the flu by Katalin Kariko prior to covid at Biontech. They switched the blueprint to covid when they anticipated the pandemic. It's all a pretty amazing story. Here's a link to a great podcast describing it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/podcasts/the-daily/mrna-vaccines-katalin-kariko.html

[–]PMSysadmin 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]SnooCookies2243[S] 658 points659 points  (197 children)

I have a feeling this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mRNA vaccines.

[–]MrLagzy 412 points413 points  (98 children)

True. There are already trials for this vaccine technology against cancer, HIV and others. It's one of the good things that happened from this hellhole we are in now, the advancement of mRNA vaccines to combat many diseases we all have. Just think about it. You get cancer, you get a shot, you're cured. Future is always bright when you look at the science of what we almost are about to get. 😊

[–]thelochteedge 163 points164 points  (27 children)

If I see a cure for cancer in my lifetime, I'd probably cry from the amazement of how far we've come as a society. I'd probably have a bit of emotion in wishing that my mom had made it a bit longer in life before getting it but I'd be happy to think about all the families that would potentially never have to experience that ever again.

[–]Shiroi_Kage 78 points79 points  (16 children)

If I see a cure for cancer in my lifetime

You might see a cure for a cancer, or maybe even a few cancers, but I don't think it's going to be for all cancers. We'll see though. The fight rages on and humanity discovered a whole new class of weapons recently that could turn the tide.

[–]yogopig 38 points39 points  (1 child)

The fact that its even a realistic possibility is honestly amazing.

[–]Shiroi_Kage 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Right? Add to that all the possibilities of regenerative medicine and we're potentially looking at a new medical revolution beginning to take place.

I read an article about how the human genome project didn't really deliver on that much, but we're seeing this foundation blast the doors wide-open for us to go and fix all sorts of problems. It's impressive and very promising what we can do with the tech these days.

[–]Sierra-117- 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah cancer is a bitch because there’s so many types of it. But we are definitely on track to cure some of them. And there is a possibility we could cure all cancer. Take this all with a grain of salt, I’m a little educated in the field but not on everything. This is just some future “cures” discussed in class.

The main new weapon we discovered is CRISPR. Imagine in the future your doctor could store a piece of your healthy tissue. If you develop cancer, you could compare the genetic sequences of healthy tissue and cancerous tissue, identifying the mutation quickly. CRISPR is then designed specifically for your mutation, and can either repair or kill cancerous cells.

And this isn’t even far off tech. We cured someone of sickle cell anemia. A living person. Monogenic diseases (those caused by a mutation in one gene) are pretty much cured at this point. All the trials are coming back successful, and the first rollout to patients is expected soon (aka to rich people). The problem is polygenic diseases (those caused by several genetic mutations). Many cancers fall into this category.

So the problem has now become identifying the genetic mutations causing the disease. We have the tool to edit, but we’re mostly slashing around in the dark. We know how to read and identify what segments do, but it’s costly and time consuming.

So it all comes down to funding. The more funding and more manpower we put towards it, the quicker these cures will come. I know CRISPR sounds exaggerated, too good to be true. But we’ve done it. We’re able to alter our own code now. The implications of this are far reaching to say the least.

[–]imgrandojjo 56 points57 points  (24 children)

Wait, they're thinking mRNA vaccines might work on HIV? Holy hell, if that's even possible what a huge thing that could be.

[–]SeaOfGreenTrades 22 points23 points  (2 children)

There will be fucking in the streets!

[–]DaveTheDog027 9 points10 points  (0 children)

God I want to live in this world

[–]thesixgun 14 points15 points  (3 children)

I read somewhere recently that they should be able to use mRNA to make opiates not become physically addictive. That could be a good or a bad thing.

[–]-Listening 2 points3 points  (0 children)

True thats probably why he survived.

[–]Chazmer87 40 points41 points  (15 children)

I'm looking forward to vaccines for autoimmune diseases

Specifically mine

[–]eric2332 30 points31 points  (14 children)

That sounds more complicated. mRNA is basically teaching the immune system to see something as a hostile intruder. But in autoimmune diseases the immune system already sees something as a hostile intruder which it shouldn't. Sort of the opposite problem.

[–]Chazmer87 21 points22 points  (12 children)

They're working on it right now, Covid fast forwarded it by about a decade and now it's in trials. Crohns and colitis vaccine trial if you want a read.

[–]Matrix17 6 points7 points  (0 children)

God I really hope they start working on mine.. it's way less known and less widespread than Crohns but I dont know if I can live the rest of my life with this. It barely has a passable treatment and it doesnt work for many people

[–]deincarnated 42 points43 points  (13 children)

Immortality or bust.

[–]shAdOwArt 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I'm going to live forever, or die trying.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (3 children)

Hey man I'm getting vaccinated today

Against covid?

No against dead.

[–]ForeverStaloneKP 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Just need to find a way to transfer consciousness into an artificial body.

[–]electricgotswitched 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I have a feeling the GQP will start comparing the flu vaccine to the covid vaccine and conservatives will stop getting the flu shot

[–]Ranfo 132 points133 points  (9 children)

Fuck yea! We'll need it if the flu makes a nasty comeback

[–]Metalt_ 39 points40 points  (6 children)

I'm just getting over what the doctors called a summer flu. Apparently with covid restrictions and masks it was dormant for 2 years and is finally spreading due to opening up. It was probably the worst flu I've ever had fever got up to 104 and the coughing was non stop and painful I'm finally getting better now but damn I would love a new flu vaccine

[–]a_lonely_trash_bag 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Oh yeah. You can get the flu any time of the year. It's just most common during the winter months because everyone spends more time inside where they're around other people.

[–]jaypp_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeaaah I got a nasty flu that turned into pneumonia in July when I was 14. Probably the worst time of the year to have the flu in the sense that the weather probably was super nice lol.

[–]FauxReal 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The worst flu I ever had was the day/night of Jane's Addiction's last concert. I have never hurt so bad in all of my joints with such a massive headache. I was perfectly fine the next day. I was so bummed to have missed their show.

[–]xMETRIIK 254 points255 points  (137 children)

That's cool but can we please get something to stop balding? Like a monthly or yearly mRNA shot.

[–]yamez420 23 points24 points  (5 children)

I’ve lost so much hair this past year. It’s just not growing anymore.

[–]expera 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I feel you. Bald for 4 years now I’m 36

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (35 children)

If it's possible, someone is looking into it. The market for that would be in the trillions.

[–]KingSolomonEpstein 39 points40 points  (9 children)

How incredible would it be to unlock low-level control of hair growth?

I think a lot about how so much of our bodies are covered in hair that grows to a specific length and then stops. There are areas that grow different lengths, densities, types of hair, and if we could learn how they control and differentiate that growth, we could do more than stop balding - we could:

  • grow an exact length beard

  • grow a specific shape beard

  • never have to deal with pubes

  • grow a desired hairstyle

  • grow foot-long eyelashes

  • eliminate ear and nose hair

  • abolish the unibrow

It's inspiring to imagine what the world could be

[–]bogglingsnog 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Imagine growing a thick fur coat before a ski trip

[–]ThisIsCovidThrowway6 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Abolish armpit hair and butt hair

[–]CompetitiveAdMoney 3 points4 points  (1 child)

TBH, just a little bit of this hair in cracks is actually good, keeps them from getting chafed and as sweaty, yeast infections etc.

[–]ThisIsCovidThrowway6 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Butt hair traps poo, not sweat.

[–]jeffreynya 162 points163 points  (58 children)

I was curious. Can the mRNA vaccine incorporate more than one strain? Say you wanted to due 5 strains in one shot. Is that possible.

How much will mRNA help with looking at a universal vaccine that would target all or even future flu's?

[–]AlphaDelilas 66 points67 points  (2 children)

I know a few months ago there was talk that an mRNA flu vaccine could cover a whole bunch of strains. I don't think it can cover ALL flu strains, but ones that have similar structures may all be covered in one shot.

I'm super hopeful since I'm immune compromised and the flu shot being such a coin flip sucks.

[–]PengieP111 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Influenza, like colds can be caused by many different viruses. The flu shots available now have several strains of type A and type B influenza that we guess will be prevalent in the coming flu season. Sometimes we guess wrong as to the expected flu strains and types and the shot isn’t as effective against those.

[–]light_trick 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Part of the guess though is the difficulty of growing up the right proteins to induce an immune response though, and the limits on mixing them in the same vial. I think the idea with mRNA would be jump past those difficulties - see if you can just put every strain you identify in, and train the immune system on all of them.

[–]SoCalThrowAway7 102 points103 points  (14 children)

mRNA as I understand can train your immune system to look for something and tell it to kill it. So in covid’s case it’s been the spike protein. That’s why the vaccine is still effective against the variants. They all still have to spike protein.

Again this is just an uneducated guess but it should be possible to make a vaccine that targets something all flu strains have or at least the most common strains. Something very specific and then it would be effective against all of them.

[–]rgb_panda 47 points48 points  (5 children)

mRNA vaccines give the ribosomes in cells the information they need to create proteins (for example the spike protein in the coronavirus), which your immune system then recognizes as foreign and creates antibodies for. The difficult part was getting the mRNA into the cells without the immune system attacking it beforehand.

[–]Xylomain 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Hold on I'll edit a really good video in for exactly what you just said!

Edit: here

[–]Fandorin 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Not just the spike protein, but multiple receptor sites on the spike protein. This is why the Biontech and Moderna vaccines are still very effective on the new strains. Even if the spike protein mutates, there's a really good chance that one of the receptors will still be recognizable by your immune system.

In short, to answer /u/jeffreynya, it's not just possible, it's already in place for the current mRNA vaccines.

Edit - the other massive benefit is that once the target protein is sequenced, it's trivial to modify the vaccine. This means that for an easily mutating virus like influenza, there's no need for guesswork like we have with current vaccine tech where epidemiologists try to predict the most dominant strains. Manufacturers will be able to modify the flu shot to target the exact strains that are dominant in a given year with very little lead time, so no more 50% effective flu shots. This tech is huge!

[–]light_trick 36 points37 points  (5 children)

There's research started already looking at mRNA "omni-vaccines". One of the problems with traditional technology is it's hard to stabilize the different protein shells in the same solution, in proximity to each other. This is not necessarily a problem with mRNA - it's all just mRNA, so provided your cells pick it up and express the proteins, that's more then enough.

So the idea is that rather then normal childhood vaccine schedule, you might one day just get "the vaccine" when you're born, and then a booster and that would be it.

This is also the reason the success of the COVID-19 vaccines is making people get excited about possible HIV vaccines - the simplification of the multiple different targets you need to induce an effective HIV immune response (and the efficicacy of mRNA in inducing it) means it might be a lot easier to develop effective vaccine regimes.

[–]noelcowardspeaksout 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Oxford University just announced their HIV vaccine trial a few days ago.

'The clinical trial, known as HIV-CORE 0052, will test the HIVconsvX vaccine. This vaccine is a “mosaic” which is capable of targeting a range of HIV-1 variants, opening up the possibility that this single drug could be used across the globe.'

[–]ze1da 46 points47 points  (10 children)

If they can find a common feature then yes, it should be able to protect against many strains by keying the immune system to that common feature.

[–]DuskyDay 42 points43 points  (6 children)

even future flu's

"We could employ a tachyonic pulse to create a future version of the vaccine, captain."

"Do it, Mr. Tuvok."

[–]jeffreynya 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I was really hoping for a "Make it So"

[–]shaggellis 11 points12 points  (2 children)

"Make it so" is for calm and collected Picard. "Do it!" Is Picard when something has severely irritated him haha.

[–]EntranceRemarkable 16 points17 points  (1 child)

In this case I think they're referring to Captain Janeway though

[–]shaggellis 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ah.... yes my sleep deprivation has made me put my foot in my mouth. Thanks for pointing that out :)

[–]WMDick 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Say you wanted to due 5 strains in one shot. Is that possible.

Yes. You can encode multiple proteins into the same mRNA or simply package differant mRNAs coding for differant proteins/epitopes in an LNP formulation.

How much will mRNA help with looking at a universal vaccine that would target all or even future flu's?

Hugely enabling. The beauty is that the protein is made in your cells, just like the viral protein. So it will me matured (folded, glycosylated, processed, trafficed) just like the viral protein. This is in contrast to traditional vaccines that are made in chicken/insect/bacterial cells etc.

[–]Early-Permission-1 53 points54 points  (15 children)

How is this different in outcome than a standard flu shot? Is it just effectiveness or is there a bigger advantage?

[–]ZuckDeBalzac 15 points16 points  (3 children)

I really hope we can get the effectiveness of flu vaccines up. What is it now, like 50%? Those are rookie numbers.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Isn't the flu effectiveness low due to having to choose strains that we think will be prevalent? It's mostly a guessing game. Though I will say, my daughter got the flu in January 2020, and she shared with me. I had my flu shot, and I felt miserable for about 12 hours. Then I was perfectly fine. I'd heard it can make the illness less severe, but frankly that was amazing (assuming that's what I had...it fit the symptoms, for sure, and my daughter tested for influenza at the hospital...she was getting it bad).

Perhaps mRNA will let us target a wider variety of strains by targeting common parts of the various strains.

[–]jweaver0312 42 points43 points  (0 children)

It depends. mRNA technology based vaccines from studies are claimed to be better effectiveness overall, and more efficiently created, and does not use a dead copy of the virus.

[–]Laremere 9 points10 points  (5 children)

The advantage worth noting is time. When creating a flu shot, they estimate which strains of flu will be a problem in the upcoming flu season. Sometimes they get it right, and it's really effective. Other times a different strain becomes common, and the flu vaccine only works well on the other common strains. Due to the speed that an mRNA vaccine can be developed, this may bring the lead time down so the vaccines more accurately target the current problematic strains.

Another advantage is that the vaccines won't be incubated in eggs. People who are allergic to eggs or are vegan will want to use mRNA vaccines. (quick Googling shows there are other options, but AFAIK those aren't the mainstream ones)

[–]heikkiiii 33 points34 points  (7 children)

Could mRNA be used against auto immune disorders like alopecia, or is it strictly against diseases?

[–]DrawingSlight5229 20 points21 points  (0 children)

very curious about mRNA vaccines to treat things like diabetes or celiac's

[–]Ungluedmoose 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Or multiple sclerosis? I'm 39 and my mother was diagnosed when she was pregnant with me. Feels like every couple years there's some new thing that's supposed to be awesome...

[–]imgrandojjo 64 points65 points  (6 children)

nice to know that 4 million people didn't die for nothing.

Seriously if the legacy of CoVID is several new weapons to protect humans against viruses, that's a nice silver lining that should save a lot of lives going forward.

[–]420BigDawg_ 22 points23 points  (1 child)

In terms of medicine this decade might be the most important YET. I am excited

[–]diabless55 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I just hope they start working on new antibiotics.

[–]pinniped1 285 points286 points  (47 children)

Sweet. This way Bill Gates can deliver firmware upgrades to the tracking devices I got with my covid shot.

You'll know it's true when the flu shot has "Service Pack 2" in its name

[–]ElroxMusic 50 points51 points  (8 children)

Man I got my vaccine updates and now I run slower

[–]blankMook 30 points31 points  (4 children)

Have you tried turning yourself off and on again?

[–]ElroxMusic 31 points32 points  (0 children)

It happens unintentionally when I walk by a mirror

[–]bloatedplutocrat 15 points16 points  (2 children)

It means your battery is going bad, go pick up a new lithium CR2032 and eat it with food, should be back to normal speed in an hour or so.

[–]TheVenetianMask 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Depends on your case, it may be easier to go through the rear to access the battery compartment.

[–]_Echoes_ 104 points105 points  (19 children)

I know you're joking but some poeple will take this seriously.

[–]Fieos 59 points60 points  (5 children)

I had Pfizer and my print spooler has been secured.

[–]Vulgaris25 18 points19 points  (5 children)

I’m hopeful for much more effective flu vaccines. Every season is an educated guess with some vaccines only delivering roughly 50% effectiveness which is not great when huge numbers of people don’t even get the shot.

[–]aquamarinedreams 16 points17 points  (5 children)

I hope they can make it non reactive if you’ll need to have it more than every few years. I wouldn’t love to be sick like after my second COVID vaccine dose annually.

[–]IamFrom2145 15 points16 points  (2 children)

The potential of mRNA is staggering, we are all alive during a sea change in human history, one of many in the last few decades, appreciate that. Not many generations have seen change on this scale and so often

[–]MikoMiky 19 points20 points  (8 children)

If the flu mutates every year, would we need a new mRNA shot every year as well?

Are there consequences to repeated editing of genetic information? Will their hypothetical existence be explicitly studied during clinical trials?

What are the advantages compared to classic inoculation?

[–]Affectionate_Buss 19 points20 points  (3 children)

If the flu mutates every year, would we need a new mRNA shot every year as well?

Probably. Though there are some ideas to make a universal flu vaccine that targets the portion of the virus that doesn't mutate (at least that much)

Are there consequences to repeated editing of genetic information? Will their hypothetical existence be explicitly studied during clinical trials?

Not sure what you mean. MRNA is just what the cell nucleus uses as a blueprint to produce a particular protein. MRNA isn't editing your own genome. That's gene therapy and totally different.

What are the advantages compared to classic inoculation?

From my understanding, speed is the best one. You can quickly make new MRNA vaccines where the traditional way you have to genetically engineer a new adenovirus as the vector into the cells. That takes time to engineer that and build enough supply. Scientists have to guess what strain (or couple of strains) of flu is going to be dominant each year and then create a vaccine against those variants. Sometimes they get it wrong which is why some years the flu vaccine isn't as effective as other years. (They targeted the wrong variant)

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I believe that the speed of flu evolution is probably a function of the number of people it infects globally

If we can reduce the number of infected by quicker, more versatile vaccinations we can push our eternal enemy to a corner where it has no space to mutate. We can force it to slow down.

The we go for the kill.

[–]eric2332 4 points5 points  (1 child)

See universal flu vaccine, hopefully they can identify part of the flu virus which doesn't mutate much and target the vaccine to that, so that it protects against all flu variants. But this is still being researched

[–]WikiSummarizerBot 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Universal_flu_vaccine

A universal flu vaccine is a flu vaccine that is effective against all influenza strains regardless of the virus sub type, antigenic drift or antigenic shift. Hence it should not require modification from year to year. As of 2019 there has been no approved universal flu vaccine for general use, but several have been in development.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

[–]RichieNRich 65 points66 points  (30 children)

Our illnesses and diseases are going to fall like dominoes because of mRNA.

[–]brainhack3r 18 points19 points  (2 children)

I actually am far more excited about crispr testing. It's non invasive and you can just test someone for every disease before you interact with them. Get results in five minutes. Cheap too. Hopefully not too far our.

[–]WMDick 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I actually am far more excited about crispr testing.

CRISPR for human health needs mRNA to deliver the protein to the cells. All the CRISPR companies are building mRNA platforms.

[–]pazimpanet 47 points48 points  (19 children)

Makes you wonder where we’d be if we’d been prioritizing these things historically instead of war.

[–]Tonroz 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Sadly a lot of our modern medical knowledge comes from inhumane experiments done during war times.

[–]IngsocInnerParty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The Afghanistan and Iraq wars have been a major boost in working with amputees and prosthetics, as sad as that is.

[–]RichieNRich 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I've been contemplating on that for decades. Sigh.

[–]Blatheringman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Reminds me of a joke Norm Macdonald made about prioritizing death.

[–]bluebell_flames18 11 points12 points  (9 children)

The more flus I can avoid the better! So this is exciting. My science is kind of rusty. Can mRNA vaccines be applied to colds too? At least in theory? Cause a cure for the common cold would be amazing. (I just hate being sick, wearing a mask and carrying hand sanitizer has really helped! But I want to go back to dating etc....)

[–]MarkJanusIsAScab 9 points10 points  (3 children)

The common cold is a TON of different virii. Their symptoms are similar, but a single vaccine is never gonna cover them all.

[–]Erikari 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Virii is a made up word btw, Latin virus has no plural, and English virus declines it as viruses. If Latin virus had a plural it would have probably been vira instead as viri already means men.

That aside I hope this new technology will surprise us in the coming years! Never say never :)

[–]jbales33 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This sounds very promising. Hope this all works out!

[–]number_dude 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Nice, got the Moderna Covid vaccine, and I’ll get the Moderna Flue vaccine to enhance the Moderna ecosystem™️