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Novavax (self.ZeroCovidCommunity)

submitted by horse-boy1

During the second quarter, Novavax continued preparations to deliver our updated XBB COVID vaccine for the 2023 fall season. In most of our key target markets, including the U.S., the Novavax vaccine, if authorized, would be the only non-mRNA protein-based XBB COVID vaccine available.

Initiated FDA submission for approval of our updated XBB COVID vaccine for the 2023 fall vaccination season and reiterated plan to be in market by September; submissions to EMA and Health Canada in the coming weeks

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https://ir.novavax.com/press-releases/2023-08-08-Novavax-Reports-Second-Quarter-2023-Financial-Results-and-Operational-Highlights

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[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]horse-boy1[S] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

    From what I heard yes, but depends on FDA.

    [–]kxm1234 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Do you think it would be a two doses of the updated Novavax?

    [–]buckeyecubfan 8 points9 points  (1 child)

    I had adverse reactions from mRNA. Enough that I had to use some sick days to recover. This is why I didn't have booster until Noravax was approved in US. Had to hunt around for it. Not going to get another mRNA covid vaccine given reaction to it

    [–]howmanysleeps 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    How was your reaction to the Novavax?

    [–]DustyRegalia 26 points27 points  (40 children)

    If I understand correctly, the primary reason people hype novavax is because the mechanism (non-mRNA) is thought to possibly convey more durable protection from infection. And that said, it’s not a gigantic, easily measured improvement over the pfizer/moderna products, just an apparent small improvement.

    Is that about accurate, novavax stans?

    [–]TonyNickels 15 points16 points  (0 children)

    Longer lasting protection as well. The drop off in effectiveness wasn't nearly as pronounced after a few months.

    [–]wick34 32 points33 points  (2 children)

    So I have a condition called me/cfs. It's neurological, likely with an autoimmune component. Some people with long covid also fit the dx criteria for me/cfs. People with me/cfs were excluded from the initial covid vaccine trials because we're just too ill. We tend to be much more likely to have severe reactions to vaccines or really just anything that provokes an immune response, though there's a lot of individual variance.

    Once vaccines became available, me/cfs patients organized polls to basically collect data about which vaccine was least side effect heavy for us. From the data we collected, Novavax is the least side effect heavy of the US options, by far. So Novavax is very popular among our community.

    Personally, I got moderna and experienced a significant flare of me/cfs symptoms. It lasted entirely between my two moderna shots and faded like one and half months after the second one. My ability to complete ADLS took a noticeable hit. It sucked, but getting covid also sucks, so I was still happy I got it. I got novavax as a booster and I was down for 3 days before hitting my normal baseline. It was so much easier on me.

    [–]DustyRegalia 10 points11 points  (0 children)

    Thank you, this was a very helpful bit of context for me. I hope you continue to have good outcomes with the next booster!

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Just want to say-I have 3 autoimmune conditions and my initial 2 Pfizers in 2021 gave me such long-term issues I can no longer get one. Hoping for Novavax but you are not alone. I fully isolate still so it was absolutely not worth it. Wish I had never gotten them.

    [–]satsugene 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    There are some people who had adverse effects from the mRNA options. I had pericarditis from Moderna #2 (Alpha). So I did J&J as a booster (which has its own risks but not the specific one I encountered) and didn’t have the problem—and did it multiple times because of waning protection.

    When Omicron mRNA came out but no Omicron non-mRNA option cardiology felt they could monitor the risk and be ready with treatment if it occurred again before it got out of hand (hospitalized again), that infection would be higher risk and the alpha vaccines (either) were insufficient.

    I didn’t have the issue the issue with Omicron, but the possibility makes non-mRNA options attractive to me as a whole.

    I’m glad options exist but where I live Novavax is hard to find.

    I even had to go to a retail pharmacy for J&J because even though the HMO’s own cardiologist wrote orders to mix them, their scheduler had no way in the system to schedule mixed boosters so they would have had to schedule it at a site with both and hope the nurse had enough supply to provide it—which was going to delay it by a month for the possibility.

    For XBB I’m not sure what I will do, but will do one or the options.

    [–]ItsJustLittleOldMe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Apparently the MatrixM adjuvant is key too. Enough that the Gates foundation is partnering with them to use it as well. There's something about saponins being very useful with immune system responses.

    [–]Few-Manufacturer8862 19 points20 points  (21 children)

    Not sure about the durability, to be honest, but some of the data had shown that it provided broader protection, so it could protect against more (slightly different) variants, which was a huge advantage in a quickly evolving viral environment. That said, Omicron, IIRC, proved to be too different from the original strain for that broader protection to hold. I guess we'll have to see how the updated version does and if they recapture that broadness. It would be great to have a broader "Omicron" vaccine rather than a specifically XBB one as things keep changing.

    (Also, because this is a more traditional type of vaccine, I think there was some hope that some of the less rabid anti-vaxxers would be more likely to take it, but I think that misinformation battle has been fully lost)

    [–]Flemingcool 11 points12 points  (20 children)

    I think the antigen included an area of the spike less likely to mutate which may be behind the durability. It’s the only one I may consider following my reaction. The amount of antigen is fixed, and there is no danger of it leading to spike protein being expressed on organs around the body should the vaccine get in the bloodstream. As discussed previously in here there are genuine questions about the number of issues with existing vaccines and the lack of investigation that takes place into those of us harmed. Dismissing people as anti vaxxers isn’t a good way to address those concerns.

    [–]Few-Manufacturer8862 1 point2 points  (13 children)

    If you're not an anti-vaxxer, and will in fact get vaccinated with this version, why do you feel as though my comment in any way refers to situations like yours?

    [–]Flemingcool 10 points11 points  (12 children)

    I’d consider it. IF someone was actually looking at what caused the reactions in those that had them to the earlier vaccines. The lack of such research is my biggest concern at the moment.
    Prior to what happened to me I laughed at the people that said they weren’t getting the covid vaccine. Since I had my reaction I’ve met people that experienced similar reactions to HPV, Hep B and other vaccines. All with similar stories of dismissal and lack of investigation into their illness. Previously I’d have been skeptical. We get called antivaxxers all the time, it’s a good way to shut down the discussion and undermine one “side” of the debate before it even begins. Some of the claims of vaccine harms (died suddenly) are abhorrent. But the dismissal of the (not rare enough) injured is equally abhorrent, and drives vaccine hesitancy. You think my family and friends are more or less likely to get vaccinated after they’ve seen how I’ve been treated? I may soon lose my job of 25 years.

    [–]Few-Manufacturer8862 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    That really sucks for you. Vaccine injuries are no joking matter. But they're far, far rarer than the long-term consequences of the diseases they're meant to prevent.

    Also, the whole point of mass vaccination programs is to ensure there's a much population coverage as possible so people like you don't HAVE to get vaccinated in order to be somewhat protected. If you encourage others not to get vaccinated because you were the 1 in 10,000 or 100,000 who had a bad reaction, you're putting them and other people at much higher risk.

    I've got a friend who might have gotten POTS from the vaccine, and she says she would do it again because the risk of getting POTS from COVID is so many times higher than from the vaccine, and chances are, she would have gotten it (and maybe also many other things) anyway if she got COVID, instead.

    So yeah, you are an anti-vaxxer, dude. You have your reasons, and while maybe yours are slightly more valid, so do the hippie moms who believe their children should only have organic things. But you're both trusting intuition and personal experience over statistical risk data, and putting people (those you care about, and those you might have never met who will become horribly sick from what your unvaccinated cohorts gave them) at huge risk by trying to convince them that your personal experience weighs more than the fact that billions of vaccinated people didn't have that same experience.

    I fully believe all of our Healthcare systems should be taking way better care of anyone who came out of the last three years with long-term damage, whether that be from infection or from the rare vaccine injuries, and I'm happy to continue to advocate for that, and for a multi-pronged prevention approach that makes it safer for everyone to share air with others, while you go on Reddit to complain about anti-anti-vaxxers hurting your feelings in replies to a post about a vaccine whose risk profile you haven't investigated at all, as per your own admission.

    [–]Straight-Plankton-15Eliminate SARS-CoV-2[M] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Your comment calls another user an "anti-vaxxer" and even otherwise borders on violating Rule #1. Repeated violations will result in a ban.

    [–]Flemingcool 2 points3 points  (5 children)

    Risk of pots is same from vac and virus. I’m not an anti vaxxer. But this vaccine (or rather this antigen) is dangerous. I had my full suite of vaccine all through my life, including everything for a trip to Africa, and so have my kids. And I raced to get this one. But it fucked me. And it’s pretty mad you know someone yourself that was harmed. I say that, but I’m not surprised. Most people irl that I tell know someone else that has had a reaction to some degree. Weird if it’s so safe. I’d encourage everyone to get vaccinated. But not with these dreadful vaccines.

    [–]Few-Manufacturer8862 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    It's not cool to spew misinformation on a post like this. The risk of POTS after a COVID infection (which, by the way, also exposes you to "this antigen"... that is, in fact, how vaccines work. By teaching the immune system to recognize a specific peptide sequence and physical configuration that are markers for a disease-causing organism) is 5 times higher than after a vaccine: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-022-00180-z

    And that's the issue. You're so blinded by your awful personal experience that you cannot actually do the research that might challenge that view, and you're willing to put people at risk because of it. This was literally the first result in my search, and it's a fairly recent paper on one of the top 3 academic journals, which is about as good a reference as anyone could have.

    As for my friend... I also know many people who have massive consequences from COVID, including a few people who actually already had to give up their jobs due to long COVID, and of course, many people who DIED. But hey, let's continue focusing on the anecdata instead of actually weighing risks appropriately by understanding the likelihood of harmful consequences in each decision.

    The OP was asking about what made Novavax different, and how that might affect its effectiveness. You haven't had a Novavax (I have), nor have you looked into its safety or effectiveness profiles. I get that your situation absolutely and utterly sucks, but you need to realize that by misinforming people, all you're doing is increasing the likelihood that others will also end up harmed (by 5 times according to that reference, if we were to only look at POTS).

    [–]Flemingcool 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    It’s not misinformation. It has been challenged and I believe it is awaiting the authors response. Thread here yes I know it’s Twitter but some respectable scientists on there are not dismissing the opinion.

    I answered about Novavax saying I believe it is a safer option and why that was. Which I believe is correct about it including an area of spike protein less likely to mutate (s2?) and you started suggesting that anyone that had any concerns about mRNA was a rabid anti vaxxer, and cast that in my direction. It’s a ridiculous slur designed to silence those of us harmed.

    [–]Flemingcool 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    You might want to check out this thread for updated information regarding the claims made in the POTS paper. Nature have published a critique and amended the original article. See HERE

    [–]TruthHonor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I’m in real life and I know not one human who had a bad reaction to the vaccine. I do know ‘lots’ of people who got COVID and had horrible and long lasting reactions including two people who COVID ‘killed’ within 10 days of infection. Almost all the people I know who had COVID had some kind of bad reaction including four couples who looked to be in stable marriages who were divorced a few months after COVID. Loss of taste and smell, fatigue, horrendous back pain, etc etc.

    If the problem is the spike protein, a COVID infection gives you billions more of that and in potentially every cell in your body. I’ve had 7 shots and am doing OK so far. Some small inconveniences like a sore shoulder and hip that ‘may’ be from an over active immune system. But I’m over 70 and have cirrhosis and am fighting liver cancer so I’m ok with it. But having had the hepatitis C virus for decades, I know the harm a chronic viral infection can cause, and no.thank.you!

    [–]A313-Isoke 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    You know there's a vaccine injury board in the US. The standard is much lower than the courts to win your case. You should go there. I learned about it in the podcast, Maintenance Phase.

    [–]Straight-Plankton-15Eliminate SARS-CoV-2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    The regular compensation program (NVICP), which goes through the US Court of Federal Claims, is actually more fair but it does not cover SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. They are subject to the CICP, which is managed exclusively by the executive branch. The CICP is very stingy, and COVID-19 vaccine companies are fully exempted from any liability under federal or state laws, yet some people have no clue why some people would be reluctant to take something that has no warranty.

    [–]Flemingcool 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Certainly in the UK the compensation departments are just a charade to give people that haven’t had the need to try and claim the illusion that you are helped if it goes wrong. They hardly ever pay out. Certainly not for the me/cfs type illness.

    [–]A313-Isoke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Oh, didn't know you were in the UK. Might be worth trying if it's a US company though.

    [–]Friendfeels 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    Genuine question. How do you want to see it being investigated?

    [–]Flemingcool 6 points7 points  (4 children)

    My experience has been one of complete dismissal by doctors. Once standard bloods came back there was very little interest in establishing what was wrong with me. I’ve had to pay privately for some tests, but I can’t afford to do all the tests I believe age required (SFN, brain MRI/PET, reactivated viruses, spike protein, endothelial function etc.) This is the level of testing required (same for long covid) and it just doesn’t happen. ME/CFS have been treated like this for years, and it’s disgusting. There were people in the original trials that reported the same symptoms and were also dismissed. Not acceptable for a new product imo.

    [–]Friendfeels 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    I mean, it's for sure frustrating when you have an ME/CFS-type condition, the treatment doesn't exist and the cause is unknown. But I believe that the main reason why doctors don't want to order a whole bunch of tests is that they don't know (and to be honest nobody really knows) how to interpret the results and what to do next anyway.

    Also, can you elaborate on people in the vaccine trials being dismissed? Do you want to say that their symptoms weren't recorded or what?

    [–]Flemingcool 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    So you see why that is an issue when it is triggered by a vaccine? And who is doing the research? No obligation for the manufacturers to do it, even though it was caused by their product. Not much incentive for other researchers given the politics around vaccination. We are just abandoned and it is not acceptable.

    Brianne Dressen and others reported their symptoms and either classed as withdrawn if after the first dose and they refused the second, or told not related after second. I was skeptical of this until I saw a similar account on a football forum from a lady who was in the J&J trial. Also, there was a signal for tinnitus (a common side effect) in the J&J trial. I victim pointed this out to the FDA and was accidentally copied in to an email chain telling the advisor to “cut him off”. These cases are nowhere near rare enough. Kerryn Phelps (?) a prominent Australian doctor suffered side effects, and so did her partner. What are the chances of that with a vaccine with a “1 in a million” rate of adverse events?

    [–]Friendfeels 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I'm trying to follow you, but I don't understand how you concluded that some events occur more often than expected based on some individual cases. Also, I don't know what adverse events are supposed to be 1 in a million.

    [–]Flemingcool 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Thousands of individual cases. me/cfs presentation isn’t even listed as a possible side effect. I appreciate that if you had the vaccine and had no problem you wouldn’t see any of this. But there are thousands that have had issues, and we aren’t getting anywhere near enough support. And we were all pro vac before it happened to us.

    [–]BookWyrmO14 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Novavax does mucosal immunity testing, which no other currently approved vaccine manufacturer has done, or at least I haven't seen any of them publish.

    [–]LostInAvocado 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Not a Novavax-stan, but to my understanding the main part of their tech that helps with immune response is their adjuvant. The protein-subunit part helps by reducing side effects and also possibly avoiding the possible mechanisms behind reported very rare cases of mRNA vaccine injury.

    [–]JordanAsquith 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Ya quite frankly the major reason Novavax typically looks better than Pfizer/Moderna is because the data is typically more outdated than mRNA vaccines that have far far more people taking them. The efficacy is close to the same.

    The real advantage of Novavax is it uses an entirely different set of ingredients allowing anyone with allergies to ingredients in mRNA vaccines to still get safety and effectively vaccinated. It's also slightly less politicized.

    [–]LimeGreenShorts 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    I'm hoping for Novavax after having Pfizer and Moderna, b/c after my last booster I had pulsatile tinnitus for a few months, along with elevated BP and pulse. Scary! Not to mention I'm down for the count for 2-3 days every time I get vaxxed and I've heard Novavax doesn't hit so hard. Along with more durable protection and I'm crossing my fingers I'll be able to get it in a few months - asked my GP for a note to help me get it and she wouldn't do it.

    Looking for a COVID-conscious doc now, b/c she not only claimed there might not be another booster this fall, she actively tried to discourage me by saying even if a booster was offered, it probably wouldn't be covered by insurance (doesn't matter to me, it's worth it), that protection DOESN'T WANE WITH TIME, and that I didn't need another booster, ever. Cap it off with her probing about whether I need anxiety meds and I was speechless. A true WTF moment for me!

    So grateful for this community, along with Twitter, because the medical gaslighting, denial, and misinformation is unbelievable right now.

    [–]DustyRegalia 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Your doctor sounds a lot like my kid’s pediatrician. Sometimes the more subtle, passive gaslighting does wear on me, make me doubt myself. But then I hear an absolute wild, completely nonsensical take like that and I remember that even “expert” credentials don’t count for much when people have such a strong desire to embrace a fantasy.

    [–]LimeGreenShorts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sorry to hear you're dealing with it on your end, too. I was on the receiving end of some seriously world-class gaslighting as I was growing up, so I'm pretty good at spotting it, but my jaw about hit the floor on this one. I was too flabbergasted to say much, but it definitely cemented my resolve to seek out another doc.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]DustyRegalia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Not getting the vaccine because you know people who were vaccinated but then got sick is falling victim to the preparedness paradox.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preparedness_paradox#:~:text=The%20preparedness%20paradox%20is%20the,because%20of%20the%20limited%20damage

      You should always get vaccinated up to the minimum recommended levels by the cdc if nothing else. This sub is for people who prefer to go above and beyond to avoid Covid in general, so we discuss the nuances of different vaccines and other mitigations.

      Ultimately getting any of the three new vaccine versions is the bare minimum you should do to reduce the risk to yourself and your community.