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Federal Politics

Election wrap: August 12, 2013

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End of the first day of the second week and what happened? Let's look back and see:

  • Tony Abbott was in Melbourne where he visited a traffic management centre and promised to be an infrastructure prime minister;
  • Kevin Rudd was in Sydney where he visited a Macquarie University research centre and promised $35 million to help retrain manufacturing workers;
  • there was not much snap, crackle and pop left over from last night's debate - more "mock and bore than shock and awe" was how chief political correspondent Mark Kenny described it; but
  • tomorrow holds the economic excitement that is the release of the pre election economic and fiscal outlook (PEFO).

And one final reminder - four hours to go until the electoral rolls close. It's your last chance to enrol to vote if you have not already done so.

My thanks - as always - to Andrew Meares and Alex Ellinghausen for their hard work and to you for reading and keeping us company.

See you in the morning.

 

Breaking news reporter Jonathan Swan is travelling with Mr Abbott.

In this video Jonathan reports on Mr Abbott's promise to be the "infrastructure prime minister" as well as Mr Abbott's unfortunate choice of words at a campaign event earlier today (see 10.51 am post). You can read his story here.

 

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Abbott gaffe takes centre stage

On the campaign trail with Tony Abbott, Jonathan Swan reports on the Coalition's infrastructure pledge, and an unintended bout of potty humour.

At the weekend Labor lost two candidates (yes, I know - to lose one candidate is unfortunate, to lose two is careless).

One was Geoff Lake who was running in former minister Simon Crean's Melbourne seat of Hotham until some unsavoury footage of him abusing a woman at a 2002 council meeting emerged.

Mr Lake has been replaced by Clare O'Neil, a former mayor of Dandenong turned management consultant.

The Age's Henrietta Cook has more.

 

Breaking news reporter Judith Ireland's story on the announcement Kevin Rudd made at Macquarie University earlier today is now available.

Mr Rudd announced $35.6 million to retrain manufacturing workers who wanted to move from low tech to hi tech industries.

 

The latest piece in our series on the big issues of the campaign is available.

Today, The Age's education editor, Jewel Topsfield, looks at education policy.

Education is a bread and butter issue for Labor (indeed, much of the past three years has been about reform of the school funding system) but it has not yet made much of an appearance on the campaign trail.

Jewel examines whether the greater autonomy for schools being championed by both Labor and the Coalition will really result in better schools.

Only five hours to go until the electoral rolls close.

If you need to enrol to vote please head over to the Australian Electoral Commissions' website here to find out how to do this.

Your country, your say.

 

Back in those fraught days following the 2010 election campaign Tony Windsor (then the independent MP for New England) recalled a conversation with Tony Abbott in which Mr Abbott begged the cross benchers to make him prime minister.

"The only thing I wouldn't do is sell my arse - but I'd have to give serious thought to it," was how Mr Windsor recalled Mr Abbott's conversation.

This was weighing on Mr Windsor's mind in light of Mr Abbott's "suppository" remark earlier today:

 

While things are quiet allow me to point you in the direction of some of the cool interactives Fairfax Media has come up with as part of its campaign coverage.

The first is the 30 hot seats of the campaign.

The social media stats for both major parties.

A guide to the parties' policies.

 

 

Hmmm, it's quiet, isn't it? Neither Mr Rudd nor Mr Abbott have any further events planned for the day.

In the mean time check out this video from Daniel Burt, an Australian living in Paris, who pottered about Paris asking people about l'election. Tres drole.

 

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Going Postal: expat's view of l'election

Living in Paris, Aussie humourist Daniel Burt discovers there's only one Australian candidate of any consequence to the French.

Mr Rudd used last night's debate to raise the issue of gay marriage - namely that if he was re elected he would introduce a bill on the matter within the first 100 days.

Coalition leader Tony Abbott remains personally opposed to the issue and to any change in the Coalition's position ahead of the election. However, he says the issue could be revisited if the party room brought it up after the election.

Liberal MP Kelly O'Dwyer is a supporter of gay marriage. But she thinks Mr Abbott's position is entirely reasonable.

Here is the interview with Ms O'Dwyer. (Dan Harrison has also written this story about Mr Rudd's announcement.)

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O'Dwyer: Abbott 'right' on same-sex marriage

Liberal MP and same-sex marriage supporter Kelly O'Dwyer defends Tony Abbott's position on same-sex marriage legislation.

I know  - it's hard to believe that there's only one sleep to go until the release of PEFO (pre election economic and fiscal outlook) tomorrow.

I can't wait. All those numbers.

Naturally, Labor is using it as an excuse to remind the Coalition that it needs to "come clean" on its policy costings, as MP Andrew Leigh put it in this video. Mr Leigh also defends the way Labor continues to raise the GST - even though the Coalition has repeatedly said there are no plans to change it.

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Abbott must 'come clean' on costings

Labor MP Andrew Leigh says the Coalition must "come clean" on its policy costings, and that repeated questions over raising the GST are legitimate.

Mr Rudd's notes for his press conference earlier today.

Note the name - "Spray 12".

"Spray 12" - Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's notes for his  media conference at Macquarie University in  Sydney.

"Spray 12" - Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's notes for his media conference at Macquarie University in Sydney. Photo: Andrew Meares

Bit more analysis of the debate.

Chief political correspondent Mark Kenny writes that it was a "mostly male talkfest" that was a turn off for voters.

Seven channels broadcast the debate but it attracted significantly fewer viewers than previous debates (although the coverage was shunted off to digital channels by most stations).

And, finally, political strategists Jannette Cotterell and Greg Turnbull decode the messaging. Why was it so boring?

 

'Whitebread man' debate (Video Thumbnail) Click to play video

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'Whitebread man' debate

Who won the leaders' debate, and why was it so dry? Strategists Jannette Cotterell and Greg Turnbull decode the messaging.

Or maybe it's me being a smart alec and paying attention to the appearance of male politicians.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

Maybe it's a really clever tactic to get women to sympathise with Mr Rudd via his hair worries.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

It's okay Mr Rudd - every woman knows how you feel.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

The weather forecast for Sydney was right when it predicted winds "turning gusty" during the afternoon.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd leaves Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

While Mr Rudd was visiting Macquarie University earlier today he met five month old Paddy Wilkinson. Paddy's mother instructed him: "Don't spit on the Prime Minister." It looks like Paddy was obedient.

 

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and 5 month old Paddy Wilkinson at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and 5 month old Paddy Wilkinson at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

In today's Fact Checker segment economics correspondent Peter Martin looks at the Coalition claim that Labor's levy on bank deposits would cost "people who have prudently saved".

How does Peter rate this claim? Click here to find out.

You could also watch Peter explain his findings in this video interview.

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A bank levy or a tax on savers?

Peter Martin investigates coalition claims that Labor's proposed levy on bank deposits is a tax on savers.

It's lunchtime. Let's take a moment to relax and enjoy the press release just sent out by funster Clive Palmer.

Palmer watchers will know Clive as an avid dinosaur enthusiast and Titanic tragic when he's not busy running for Parliament.

Mr Palmer announced earlier today that the first model testing of the Titanic II will take place in Germany next month.

I quote the press release here: "Mr Palmer said Titanic II would have similar dimensions as its predecessor with 840 rooms and nine decks. The only changes to the original Titanic would be below the water line including welding and not riveting, a bulbous bow for grater fuel efficiency, diesel generation and enlarged rudder and bow thrusters for increased manoeuvrability."

I can't wait!

Supporters listen as Opposition Leader Tony Abbott speaks at a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday.

Supporters listen as Opposition Leader Tony Abbott speaks at a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Mr Abbott's supporters watch as he delivers an address in Melbourne earlier this morning.

Mr Rudd is speaking about his announcement last night that, if re elected, he would bring in a bill in the first 100 days for same sex marriage.

"I think the time has come to put this acrimonious debate behind us," Mr Rudd says.

He is then asked about why he brushed aside the debate question regarding Sydney's second airport.

Mr Rudd is a little more forthcoming than he was last night.

"Of course it's the most critical [airport] of all," he says.

"It's a big deal for Sydney, I understand that."

 

Mr Rudd assures people: "I'm a positive sort of guy with a positive set of plans."

The campaign is a mere doddle.

It is not "the most challenging thing" he's been through.

And we're back on the ground breaking issue of notes during the leaders' debate.

"There's a limit to how much you can scribble down on the palm of your hand," Mr Rudd says.

Mr Rudd says he is interesting in "building" for the future whereas Mr Abbott is interested in "cutting".

Mr Rudd is picking up on comments Mr Abbott made earlier this morning about the "golden age" of Jeff Kennett's time as premier of Victoria.

This allows him to run through the large numbers of teachers, nurses and police officers who lost their jobs during Mr Kennett's time as premier not to mention the 12.3 per cent unemployment rate.

 

Mr Rudd says places like the university's hearing hub ticks all Labor's boxes - jobs in research rather than mining, education, health and improving lives of people with disabilities.

 

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd visited an anechoic chamber at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd visited an anechoic chamber at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

Kevin Rudd is speaking at Macquarie University. He is accompanied by candidate Jason Yat-Sen Li and Innovation Minister Kim Carr.

"I'm using notes also today," Mr Rudd begins with waving about a sheaf of papers.

"I prefer to be across the detail where I can."

(He wasn't smiling when he said that.)

We are just waiting for a press conference with Labor leader Kevin Rudd who is making his second visit to the Sydney seat of Bennelong in as many weeks.

Labor is keen to win the seat back from the Coalition (former tennis great John Alexander is the sitting member). The seat has a bit of chequered past. It was former prime minister John Howard's seat for many a year until he was turfed out by Maxine McKew in 2007. Ms McKew then lost to Mr Alexander the following election.

Mr Rudd has been touring Macquarie University this morning primarily to look at the institution's world leading research facility for testing hearing aids.

Mr Rudd being Mr Rudd he is almost sure to use the phrase "wired for sound" at some point.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd visited an anechoic chamber with 41 speakers at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd visited an anechoic chamber with 41 speakers at the Australian Hearing Hub at Macquarie University in Sydney on Monday. Photo: Andrew Meares

The $80,000 bet on a Coalition win (see 11.20am post) prompts me to do a post on the issues the Australian Council of Social Service would like to see dealt with.

"In spite of our wealth a greater number of people are living in poverty which will worsen as unemployment rises," the chief executive officer of ACOSS, Cassandra Goldie, told a press conference earlier today.

"Having 2.2 million people living below the poverty line - including nearly 600,000 children - is unacceptable. If we don't take action to reverse this trend now, it will be more damaging and costly down the track."

ACOSS wants the next government to set a national development goal of reducing poverty and a report presented to Parliament each year on the progress.

 

Remember in the olden days when Julia Gillard was prime minister how we used to discuss whether or nor Mr Abbott had a problem with women?

It does not seem to be evident here.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott at a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott at a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Some people have a lot of extra cash. Must be something to do with the low interest rates or something.

Sportingbet tells me they have just taken a bet of $80,000 on a Coalition win come September 7 - the biggest single wager for the campaign so far.

Sportingbet says the Coalition's odds are now $1.13 while Labor's are $6.

Last week it was Peter Beattie. This week's celebrity signing is former cricketer Nathan Bracken who will run as an independent in the NSW Central Coast seat of Dobell (held by former Labor MP Craig Thomson).

Perhaps of more interest is that Mr Bracken's campaign is being funded by ad man John Singleton. Mr Singleton has taken it upon himself to fund more than one campaign in the area. He says he has been a ratepayer in the area for more than 60 years and thinks the area needs higher quality representation.

Breaking news reporter Daniel Hurst has more.

 

One would have to agree with the boss of the Australian Workers' Union, Paul Howes, on this one:

 

Mr Abbott also sympathises with the dilemma of people living in electorates where the MP might be Labor but is still a "good bloke".

Mr Abbott asks people not to be swayed by the niceness of that person but to remember they are still a representative of Labor.

"If you want to change the government you've got to change the local Labor member," he says.

Who says politics isn't personal?

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Mr Abbott went on to say he was not the "suppository" of all wisdom.

Coalition leader Tony Abbott is addressing a meeting of campaign faithful in the Melbourne seat of Deakin.

He brings up the issue of Mr Rudd's use of notes in last night's debate: "It's not that he was reading from notes it's that the notes weren't worth reading."

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits a campaign office in Ringwood, Victoria, on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Is it a bird? It is a plane? No it's the light plane of Coalition MP Sussan Ley who flies herself around her vast electorate of Farrer which borders South Australia, Victoria and Queensland. (Hopefully she wasn't tweeting while flying.)

 

Naturally all parties want as many people enrolled to vote as possible.

But they do do some tricky things in the name of helping people do their civic duty.

Such as sending people postal vote application forms along with a reply paid envelope and possibly a flyer from the local candidate. The recipient then fills in all the relevant details and sends it back to an official looking address. Which just happens to be the office of a party. Parties are legally obliged to send the postal votes to the Australian Electoral Commission but they have also taken down that person's details and added them to their database.

Nifty, huh? If you'd like to read more about this trick you can click here.

Labor has been handing out these enrol to vote flyers over the past few days.

I think you will agree they are not entirely without a hint of self-interest but there you go - parties need all the voters they can get. It helps if they are able to vote. Labor sees voters aged between 18-24 as one of its key demographics. They are the people most likely not to be on the electoral roll.

Labor's campaign to get people to enrol to vote.

Labor's campaign to get people to enrol to vote.

In just nine and half hours' time the electoral rolls will close.

After 8pm you will no longer be able to enrol to vote or change your details. Please visit the Australian Electoral Commission's website here if you are among the people who need to do a bit of paperwork before casting a vote on polling day.

Election officials fear as many as three million people will either be unable to vote because they have failed to enrol or will cast an informal vote.

There is also the tricky situation faced by people who are overseas on polling day.

There is no truth that Kevin Rudd has returned to the Sydney seat of Bennelong to announce that photobomber Joseph Kim will replace Jason Yat-Sen Li as Labor's candidate in the seat.

 

I told you last week that Liberal MP Philip Ruddock is travelling with Coalition leader Tony Abbott throughout the campaign.

Mr Ruddock told journalists last week his job was to "keep Tony calm". Perhaps the man who is known as the Father of the House because of his status as longest serving member of the House of Representatives could be known as Father of the Campaign?

But Mr Ruddock has been shy about being photographed thus far. Which just made Alex Ellinghausen all the more keen to catch him. As he did earlier this morning.

(If you'd like to read a wrap of the campaigns thus far allow me to direct you to this piece that ran at the weekend. Just in case you missed it.)

Liberal MP Philip Ruddock waits for the Opposition leader Tony Abbott In Melbourne on Monday.

Liberal MP Philip Ruddock waits for the Opposition leader Tony Abbott In Melbourne on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Before the day gets away from me I must issue a mea culpa (regular readers will know I prefer not to pretend I haven't made a mistake by going back and correcting the blog after the fact).

In my 7.08pm post last night I brought you a humourous tweet that I thought was from former Howard government minister Peter Reith. It captured the spirit of the debate quite well, I thought. Pity it wasn't from Mr Reith's real account (which I do follow so I apologise to you and Mr Reith for having a momentary brain snap and not realising).

 

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits the Vicroads traffic management centre in Melbourne on Monday.

Opposition leader Tony Abbott visits the Vicroads traffic management centre in Melbourne on Monday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Jonathan Swan called in a little while ago from the Vicroads traffic control centre which was Mr Abbott's first stop of the day.

You will recall Mr Abbott likes to talk a lot about infrastructure and how a Coalition government would do all sorts of things to make driving easier. But he was not lucky enough to witness a traffic snarl which he could promise to fix this morning.

Jonathan says a traffic centre staff member was muttering about the chances of a "dream traffic morning" just on the day a man promising more money to fix problems came into visit.

He was also quite chuffed to see Victorian Premier (and former vet) Denis Napthine being relegated to snacks duty. His job during the visit was to hand out toasted cheese and tomato sandwiches to reporters.

Coalition leader Tony Abbott is in Melbourne today. Reporter Jonathan Swan is now travelling with him. You can follow Jonathan on twitter @jonathanvswan for all the news and gossip from the trail.

Labor leader Kevin Rudd is in Sydney where he is visiting the seat of Bennelong (for the second time in two weeks). Reporter Heath Aston is with Mr Rudd. Heath's twitter handle is @HeathJAston if you'd like to keep up to date.

 

And a bit more on the debate - of a more substantial nature.

The Sydney Morning Herald's political editor, Peter Hartcher, had this assessment of the debate (he was on the panel). Peter writes that Coalition leader Tony Abbott managed to be "basically reassuring" while Labor leader Kevin Rudd failed to renew Labor's argument for re-election (as promised by his slogan).

The Age's political editor, Michael Gordon, said the end result of the debate was both men relying on the "same old lines" and falling short of giving people much new to think about.

And if you're after a more newsy - rather than an analytical account - chief political correspondent Mark Kenny filed this take last night which you can find here.

 

Let's begin today by looking back.

As predicted last night Kevin Rudd's use of notes in the debate has been keeping people occupied. The fact that that was the main thing people seem to be talking about is an indicator of how lacklustre the debate was. Does it matter? Well, the rules say he should not have used them. Commentators might say he should be on top of his brief and not in need of prompts.

Breaking news reporter Judith Ireland has filed this report on "notegate" (groan, I know, but it's handy shorthand for referring to the story).

Does it matter to you? You can have your say in our readers' poll here.

The eagle-eyed Andrew Meares went back through his photographs late last night and found the moment when Opposition Leader Tony Abbott noticed Mr Rudd's notes.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd appears to read notes as Opposition leader Tony Abbott notices moments before last night's debate began.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd appears to read notes as Opposition leader Tony Abbott notices moments before last night's debate began. Photo: Andrew Meares

Welcome to our live coverage of the campaign.

Will the second week be a bit quieter than the first? It's a pleasure to have your company as Andrew Meares, Alex Ellinghausen and I bring you all the news and views.

Related Coverage

$70b hole a fantasy: Abbott

Tony Abbott has branded Kevin Rudd's claim of a $70 billion shortfall in his election platform as ''simply a fantasy'' but refused to say how he would replace billions of dollars in revenue forgone by scrapping a slew of Labor taxes.

Adman John Singleton behind Nathan Bracken's pitch for Craig Thomson's seat of Dobell

12 Aug Former Australian cricketer Nathan Bracken will stand as an independent candidate in the federal election.

Mostly male talkfest a turn off for voters

12 Aug More mock and bore than shock and awe, Sunday's debate was a crushingly dull affair where risk avoidance was the chief aim of both sides.

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  • So sick of the GST scare campaign. A fair and balanced White Paper on Tax will look at ALL taxes. That way a fairer and more economically sound review is likely to be achieved. As for the scare campaign - the GST goes to the States 100% so how could a Federal Government use it to pay for its own budget expenses.

    Commenter
    Pan129953
    Location
    Yarraville
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 2:37PM
  • The Liberal Party and infrastructure? What is this nonsense? The Liberals never do infrastructure unless there's a buck in it for their mates. And they certainly don't do nation building projects - they are too narrow minded for that. Labor does the nation building projects that improve the standard of living for all Australians, then the Liberals come along and try to tear it down!

    Commenter
    Tone
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 2:24PM
    • A good infrastructure project is the NBN. If we encourage people to Telework from home we can cut down on carbon emission reduce our use of fossil fuels, less congestion on roads and the need to build more freeways. Saving money on transport costs and giving families the choice to balance family and work hours.
      We should be looking to a future when we don't have the daily grind of driving to work when we can do the work in a home office.

      Commenter
      Charles Foster Kane
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:43PM
  • So Abbott is going to fund more infrastructure is he, what with?

    Employment is one of the main drivers of an economy. However,“GDP growth rate has been in decline for the last 17 months. Low economic growth with a growing population results in higher unemployment levels, which are according to the Morgan poll at 9.7% and not 5.7% as claimed by Labor.

    Even government revised unemployment of 6.25% underestimates the true situation in line with Morgan. Irrespective of the number unemployment is predicted to skyrocket over the following two years and beyond, in particular as government revenues fall by an estimated $33 billion over the next four years.

    Employment is affected by the slump in commodity prices, which are anticipated to a fall next year with a decline of 5.75%. Expected annual economic growth has also been marked down to 2.5% from 2.75%?”

    “Government revised unemployment of 6.25% underestimates the true situation.”

    ABS June stats show the number of new jobs fell to 10,300 to be under population growth, in annual growth terms, employment hasn't kept up for nearly 2 years. Since mid-last year the gap between the full-time rate and the total rate has been increasing. In April 2012 the rate was 5.1% for both categories. In June this year the full-time ABS unemployment rate was 6.0%, and 0.3 higher than the total rate, Tasmania has 8.4% unemployment.

    The gap reveals disastrous employment times and steady 1500 per month growth a dream for the past.

    Labor’s falling employment figures reason Abbott’s deception of building more infrastructure?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 2:08PM
    • With the $10 billion dollars he will have up his sleeve when he abolishes the Clean Energy Fund.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:16PM
    • Even Abbott doesn't try to claim abolishing the Clean Energy Fund will save 10 billion. He estimated $350-450m a year, and he already put that towards keeping the carbon tax compensation while cutting the carbon tax.

      So sorry, you can't use it to pay for infrastructure. Or use it again to pay for the company tax cut, for that matter.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:32PM
    • Alternate View

      Rudd has scrapped Energy Security Fund; the Coal Sector Jobs package allocation; the Carbon Capture and Storage program; the Biodiversity Fund; the Carbon Farming Futures program; and the Clean Technology Program – more taxes gone to waste?

      Your $10 billion has gone to waste.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:34PM
  • Would anyone like to explain why it is that when The ALP or Greens invest in roads or technology,it's turned into a negative and called "waste".

    When the Coalition want to invest in roads that's fine, it's going to help the economy.

    Commenter
    Rod
    Location
    the Coast
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:48PM
    • Greens invest in roads?

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:54PM
    • it's a how/who question not a why question..

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:08PM
    • Well that would be OK if the ALP DID actually invest in Technology, instead of wasting the money first. Presumably you mean the NBN, which may never get finished, at the current rate of construction.

      And of course the Greens have no ability to do so, as they will never form a government.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:10PM
    • greens invest in roads... lol you mean roads that carry those dirty cars and buses, pray tell?

      Commenter
      Gt
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:24PM
    • Just looking for some consistency from the Coalition.

      In QLD they got elected by saying everything the ALP did was waste, even the billions spent re-buiding after the floods, just thought they might be trying the same thing again.

      Commenter
      Rod
      Location
      the Coast
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:26PM
  • Yay Tristan has got his LNP scrapbook out again....

    Commenter
    beasleyst
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:36PM
    • Yes, he has an uncanny knack of being able to recite every interview or article ever produced on the LNP (especially the Howard years).
      You would almost call it an obsession, or maybe just an ALP staffer...

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:53PM
    • Yes, his shorter term memory for ALP clangers certainly doesn't seem as well developed!

      Like KRudd promosing to end the "blame game" on hospital funding by July 2009...

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:08PM
    • Beasleyst and Notlad,

      It's called basing my opinion on facts and research.

      You should try it some time.

      Sadly, you mainly rely on "Our Plan : Real Solutions".

      And as we all know, it's already failed Jaymes Diaz and Julie Bishop.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:17PM
  • "Mr Rudd announced $35.6 million to retrain manufacturing workers who wanted to move from low tech to hi tech industries."

    What like efficient concentrated solar power stations with salt storage that Labor ignored for six years? Despite having base load capacity and 24/7 power production capability. Meanwhile funding windmills, which our best performers have annual capacity factors of 67% inefficiency?

    I think Rudd may be a little too late with this latest grasp of the straw.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:33PM
  • Tony Windsor is such a funny man with his tweet poking fun at Abbott's "suppository" gaffe. Too bad he doesn't have the guts to face the judgement of the electorate at the election though. Do the damage and run, eh Tony??

    Commenter
    Facts are
    Location
    Brisbane
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:11PM
    • That's an exceptionally funny comment he made, though.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:21PM
    • Abbott proved Tony Windsor was right when he said that he did Abbott a favour by supporting Julia Gillard.

      Abbott has said he wont preside over a minority government - so does that mean he stands down, and we get Malcolm Turnbull?

      Abbott also promised to hold a double dissolution election if he fails to revoke the carbon tax in parliament and replace it with his $62 per tonne direct action plan.

      So there's 2 chances to get rid of Abbott.

      Goody.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:39PM
    • Don't worry Tristan, it won't be a hung parliament.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:12PM
    • Dear Facts are: "Doesn't have the guts"?

      Are you trying to ensure that this purple patch of gastrointestinal humour remains in its current, um, flatulent state?

      Commenter
      The proctologist
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:30PM
  • "Your country, your say."

    Terrific, we can chose which party of liars to vote for - great choice - no thanks, I'll give it a miss. Somehow it seems like the wrong ethical thing to do.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:10PM
  • Think the reason things might be quiet today is because the ASADA investigation into Essendon is due out. Tony and Kevin should have a lie down and give us all a break.

    But not together !

    Commenter
    Rod
    Location
    the Coast
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 1:03PM
    • ....allow a conscience vote, see if anyone crosses the floor

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:10PM
    • Well we must not let national politics and the future of the nation interfere with footy must we?

      Credulous?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:46PM
  • "Back in those fraught days following the 2010 election campaign Tony Windsor (then the independent MP for New England) recalled a conversation with Tony Abbott in which Mr Abbott begged the cross benchers to make him prime minister."

    There's the true character of maybe the next PM....very sad for Australia.

    Commenter
    JT
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:55PM
    • Or JT you can stick with Kev - the guy the rest of the party despise, that spent the last 3 years white-anting Julia Gillard, swore he wasn't, said he wouldn't contest, then did, then said he wouldn't then did again.

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:23PM
    • Notlad,

      Anyone but Abbott.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:19PM
    • Tristan,

      Have you met Tony Abbott? You have an incredible hatred for him, and surely you being the factual type of guy you are, would not base that hatred on propaganda would you?

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:33PM
  • Can we stop teasing Abbott over the 'suppository of knowledge' gaffe. "thats where he gets his policies" etc. Clearly he has already taken his medicine

    Commenter
    Cwitty
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:46PM
    • Yeah it reminds of his take on gay marriage with an overdose of biblical hypocrisy.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:50PM
  • Here are the results of Morgan and Nielsen polls.
    http://ghostwhovotes.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nielsen-130810.png

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5100-federal-vote-morgan-poll-august-11-2013-201308111354

    65+ love Abbott

    Commenter
    Charles Foster Kane
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:43PM
    • Really old people love Abbott? No surprise there...

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:11PM
    • All the photo's on here seem to support the same thing, plenty of old folks at his "rallies"

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:17PM
    • Yep and the U12's all love Kev. Kevin will be hoping for comeback number 8 in about 6 years when all those fans are old enough to vote!

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:25PM
    • Pfft. I've just hit my thirties and don't know anyone intending to vote for Rudd. Guess it must just be those without any life experience yet (under 25 mostly) who buy Rudd's selfies and twitter crap.

      Commenter
      Labor-pains
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:38PM
  • It's obvious: most Australians understand Australian politics less than the French do.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:29PM
  • Andrew Leigh LaborMP on video at 1.47
    with same Labor Scaremongering.

    Drumroll...The Coalition are not changing the GST.

    Also Andrew Leigh was cavalier about Rudd's rule breaking on debate last night, Rudd had notes - seems like Labor treat the debate rules with contempt.

    Commenter
    yys
    Location
    Labor scaremongers re GST
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:27PM
    • I like your tag line.

      I should probably point out here that a regressive GST will affect us far more than whether or not Rudd took notes.

      Just saying

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:32PM
    • Why review it?

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:49PM
    • The Coalition have form.

      Tony Abbott has announced a 1.5% company tax cut but hasn't provided his costings for it.

      He told us last night that they would be produced "in good time".

      Abbott told us to go back to his May 2013 budget reply speech for the costings of a policy he's announced in Aug 2013.

      Abbott and Hockey told us they wouldn't abide by their own Charter of Budget Honesty, wouldn't provide their budget bottomline and told us to "add it up ourselves".

      Abbott plans to fund the company tax cut by tinkering with the GST - it's what they did last time, and what employer union and Liberal donor, Business Council of Australia has recommended.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:49PM
    • Tone,
      If the GST is so bad why has the ALP allowed the carbon tax liable to GST.
      Any gas or electricity bill show the GST as well as the total cost. For example on an electricity bill the carbon tax is already included in the KwH unit charge which we know is about 10% of the unit charge but then subjected to the GST makes the carbon tax in fact about 11%.
      If I am wrong then could you prove it?

      Commenter
      terry
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:52PM
    • I don't know terry, you'd better ask the Labor Party.

      But you're right, an increase in the GST would be an exceptionally bad policy, as it would shift the burden of taxation from the rich to the middle class.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:08PM
    • Petrol excise as well Terry.

      We pay excise tax in addition to the GST.

      And unlike income tax, you don't get credit for the tax you've paid on GST, and don't know how much you've paid unless you record everything you spend.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:12PM
    • Tris Sensible people know nothing can happen without all states agreeing. But if your scared we can leave a night light on so the GST boogyman doesn't get you, and we will leave the door open... It's ok there's no rational need to be so frightened.

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:34PM
    • Macca

      it' a tax Macca its a tax.
      If the Coalition are having a review of taxes, it , (the GST), has to be included in the review as it is one ( a Tax)
      Wise idea to have a review of taxes since Labor have done a twist and turn with all taxes since gaining office.
      The taxes would not know if they were Arthur or Martha since Labor got to them.

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:47PM
    • Tristan/tone
      There should no tax on a tax, whether it is excise on petrol or on the carbon tax.
      I have tried to ask the ALP about this but all I have ever got "you are fully compensated for the carbon tax"
      When I asked about those that get no compensation the reply was invasive at best to the point where that is their problem.
      The whole scare campaign about the GST is because the ALP at the moment have nothing else to run with.
      When Swan has a review of the tax system a few years ago everything, all taces and charges should have been included and that means the GST.
      It is like going to the Dr for a check up but the Dr does not check your blood pressure or heart, the check up was only half done so a review of the tax system without the GST is not a true review.

      "And unlike income tax, you don't get credit for the tax you've paid on GST"
      If GST is paid as part a business or work expense the you can claim it as a tax deduction

      Commenter
      terry
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:49PM
    • Tone
      No one except you is suggesting a change to the GST.

      Remember all States have to agree this fictitious increase to the GST

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Labor: ScaremongersRUS
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:54PM
    • Why have the review if they have already decided not to touch the GST,to scrap the carbon & mining taxes, lower the company tax, reverse the changes to FBT and keep the cuts to persoanl taxes? All the decisions hhave been made.

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:05PM
    • Terry
      ou statements of tax on tax are very true and concerning. I believe the constitution forbids a tax on a tax like GST on the petrol excise tax.. The Henry review would have sorted this out if the government had the initiative to introduce the review in its entirity, but no we ended up with a watered down MRRT. Sriously this needs to be sorted to stop this nonsense.

      Tone - as usual you concentrate on something that is a non issue.

      Commenter
      Neutral Voter
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:22PM
    • But Cwitty,

      Didn't Rudd point out in last night's debate that the federal government has the ability to legislate GST changes without needing the cooperation of all the states.

      And as I have repeatedly and previously already pointed out, Abbott already has 4 compliant Liberal state governments agitating for GST changes, a CLP government in NT, and 2 traitorous ALP Premiers in Tasmania and the ACT.

      'It's up to the states' to agitate for the GST.

      It's the same tactic that Abbott used about it being up to business to agitate for changes to industrial relations.

      It's not my fault, the states wanted a GST.

      It's not my fault, the employer unions want changes to IR.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:25PM
    • Terry,

      But if you're not a business and are a child, student, pensioner, unemployed or disabled on a fixed or low income, you don't get that same tax relief.

      You are reliant on the government to increase your pension or Newstart to offset the increase in GST.

      If you're a PAYG employee, you'd get credit for income tax paid, but you don't for the GST paid.

      If you were on a low income of $18,000 p.a, you would pay no income tax, but under the GST your spending power is reduced to $16,364 (presuming no GST exemptions).

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:32PM
  • Interesting to watch McMillan Shakespeare (MMS) share price again today. Up another 5%. A barometer of Labor's election chances. Labor down in the polls, equals MMS up on the stock market.

    Commenter
    Facts are
    Location
    Brisbane
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:17PM
    • That's not a bad idea. Buy MMS while the price is still depressed from the FBT announcement. If Abbott wins and the price shoots back up, at least we'll have the money to console us while Abbott wrecks the place...

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:33PM
    • Might have something to do with this, launched today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyoJcOov_oo

      Commenter
      macca
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:28PM
  • I saw this in Andrew Bolt report on Sunday morning. I went back and copied it today, does this explain the distortion of votes for abbott?

    Steer our own worm for tomorrow’s debate. I’m Worm One
    Andrew Bolt
    AUGUST
    10
    2013
    (4:29pm)

    I’ll have a blog worm going during tomorrow’s debate between Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd. Blog readers can give the most sensible reaction you’ll probably get to the debate. I may even drive my own worm. Instruction on how to join in will be posted here shortly. It will involve downloading free app. If I could do it - and I just did - then anyone can manage it.

    Let’s show what a conservative worm - sure, tormented by some trolls - thinks of the debate.
    With Roy Morgan’s help, the instructions on how to join:
    If you have iPhone or Android smartphone, you can react in real time to the Leaders’ Debate as it televised from 6.30 pm Sunday on ABC1.

    Or just watch how Australians react, second-by-second to Kevin Rudd and Tony Abbott. You’ll be able to see the reactions of various audience segments, including Bolt Report Viewers and even a special ‘Worm’ of just my reactions - that is, when I’m not posting an update on the blog.

    If you’d like to react, go to your Apple or Android App Store and download the free Reactor App (search for Roy Morgan Reactor).

    At or about 6.20pm tomorrow, open the app and choose the ‘Election Debate – Sunday August 11’ program. (It’s best to put your device on WiFi if it’s available.)

    Choose ‘Bolt Viewer’ and enter the code ‘’BV’ and then continuously score the debate with the Reactor slider-bar.

    Commenter
    tashman1
    Location
    melb
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:15PM
    • I watched the debate on the ABC because I'm a typical lefty, but it seems some "worms" favoured Abbott and some "worms" favoured Rudd. Both types of worm probably just reflect the pre-existing bias of the audience... it doesn't surprise me if one of the worms relied on an online audience stacked by Bolt, but I've never believed the TV networks make an effort to find "balanced" audiences for these things anyway. Using the "worm" to judge these things is pointless.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:27PM
    • Very interesting.

      Wouldn't be the first time the Coalition have tried to skew results.

      They have forrm.

      From stacking the ABC board and installing Howard's mate David Flint on the Australian Broadcasting Authority during the Howard era to demanding the sacking or resignation of respected economists who had the hide to question the wisdom of Coalition policies and integrity of the Coalition's accounting methods.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:30PM
    • Bolt is just another paid puppet mouthpiece for Murdoch.

      Commenter
      Steeden
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:34PM
    • No it doesn't Tashman,

      Channel 7 used their own app for voting available to any joe public with a smartphone and they received over 11,000+ votes
      Channel 9 used a presumably hand picked studio audience (maybe 200 people?)
      The ABC relied on twitter users (they say that got about 500 votes altogether)

      It's quite clear Channel 7 had the best and most accurate voting system and it quite clearly had Abbot as winner.

      Channel 9 and the ABC need to lift their game in my opinion.

      Commenter
      Thoor
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:40PM
    • Looking at the viewer/reader votes from last night clearly something was strange with 7's results, 10, 9 and ABC had a resounding win to Rudd, the Age had it much closer to the "experts" with a 48-44 win to Abbott yet 7 had a massive win to Abbott.
      Apparently the worm on 7 would start turning before the question was even completed!!

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:52PM
    • Steeden

      He' of puppet of Gina actually? You can't have climate change and coal production increases?

      Err, why do you think climate change is an absurdity? There is no temperature rise that is why the world's oceans are rising and global ice is vanishing?

      Err, no, ocean waters do not expand with temperature increase they expand because we are not burning enough coal?

      Err, ocean temperatures do not control atmospheric temperatures sun spots do?

      Err, Bolt?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:02PM
  • I would like Rudd to come clean on how much money Labor has wasted on climate change without making any improvement on climate change.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:12PM
    • I would like you to stop asking "when did you stop beating your wife" questions.

      Rudd already answered this question during the debate including how much electricity usage has dropped and how at the very least emissions have stopped increasing, thanks to the incentive to reduce emissions.

      It's baby steps in the face of implacable and well-funded opposition to doing anything at all on climate change. How you can criticise Labor for not doing enough on climate change while cheerleading for the Libs, I don't know.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:22PM
    • The emission price on carbon has been levied at a (subset) of large-scale emitters ... how has Rudd wasted anything? There has also been a reduction in emissions over the period since it was introduced, so as for it "doing nothing" that's hardly correct - or are you in the Barnaby Joyce/George Brandis camp that claims unless temperatures drop immediately it's failed? You truly are an enigma, Pen.

      Commenter
      BC
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:34PM
    • Arky

      Here is my bias? Abbott has put himself out on a limb claiming to reduce CO2 emissions by planting trees. It begs the question if one lies about the truth then reliance is on the lie concealing truth, therefore; truth gives reason to lie. So can planting trees meaningfully reduce emissions?

      Current Australian gross annual coal production (500 million tonnes) produces approximately 1.43 billion tonnes of CO2. By 2017 forecasts predict 800 million tonne gross coal production, producing 2.28 billion tonnes of CO2. Absorption of CO2 by forests varies; however, one scientific research centre suggests 440 tonnes of CO2 absorption per one hectare of mature forest, bearing in mind trees take at least 30 years to mature? Nevertheless absorbing 2.28 billion tonnes of CO2 divided by 440 tonnes per hectare equates to 5.8 million additional hectares of forest. To place this in context Victoria’s forestry comprises 3.7 million hectares. Even cutting emissions by 20% on 2017 CO2 figures requires 1.16 million hectares of additional forest.

      Trees spaced by one per 3 square metres = 450 trees per hectare x 1160000 hectares = 522 million trees. Variables dictate an average mature tree requires 1000 litres of water on hot days hence, 522 million x 1000 = 52.2 billion litre water requirement for every hot 24 hour period?

      Clearly scrapping the carbon tax isn’t sensible, even though it doesn’t reduce CO2 given our coal production programme (368% increase, 220 – 800 million tonnes). Yearly carbon tax receipts suffice funding of 3 180 gigawatt base load concentrated solar salt power stations. In ten years 30 reduces CO2 production by approximately 2.7 billion tonnes (100% by 2023). Nevertheless, Labor has sanctioned more coal fired stations, an equally absurd dishonest farce as Abbott’s scheme. Abbott and Rudd are treating voters as imbeciles.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:41PM
    • BC

      Now reads the facts below, didn't you learn to understand before commenting?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:45PM
  • Psst, Stephanie: I don't think it's titled "Spray 12", just "Spray". The date is 12 August.

    Commenter
    Arky
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:06PM
  • Abbott just make a supportory graft.
    What will the world leaders think of us.

    Commenter
    Wendyv
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 12:06PM
  • The post debate handshake looks awkward, and aggessive. not good. Golum v Tin Tin, both inhumane both racing to the bottom, well the bottom right. I WANT to be inspired, and optimistic, but it's all point scoring. Where is the actual leadership, as opposed to wanting to "Win". It's a dreadful, shameful time to be Australian in the midst of all this rhetoric, inhumanity and all this negative rubbish. The right to vote is importat just wish there was someone worth voting for. My local member is excellent but not sure I can stomach what that might mean PM wise

    Commenter
    deep sigh.
    Location
    adelaide
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 11:58AM
    • Golum vs Tin Tin, oh very good.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:44PM
  • Pictures show old rusted liberals voters
    A comfort for Tony Abbott .
    I am a rusted old labor voter too .Probably
    Another hung Parliament .
    Young and hippy for PM Rudd.say it all.
    Does count on Election Day

    Commenter
    Old Mary
    Location
    Westies
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 11:45AM
  • Someone should tell Rudd about climate change. Australia holds the record for the fastest gust of wind ever recorded: 253 miles an hour — surpassing the old mark, 231 miles an hour, set in New Hampshire in 1934?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 11:34AM
    • Thanks to Abbott's shameful scare campaign on climate change denial and the carbon tax, no Australian politician will dare revisit climate change for a generation of Abbott is elected. One of the main reasons for holding my nose about the way Rudd got back into office. Let's not forget, after all, that Abbott got catapulted into the leadership specifically so that the Libs could renege on Turnbull's commitment to an emissions trading scheme (it's ok when they backflip, apparently). I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face here.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:14PM
    • No Arky, he has not .. as for the NBN they have never shown a cost/benefit analysis (not that I need one in regard to the environment), but one should be honest. So, LNP made one backflip, makes about 50 (Labor) vs 1 (LNP) - surely something to crow about (as you do)?

      Commenter
      ET
      Location
      Lakesland
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:57PM
    • ET,

      Abbott and the Coalition have backflipped on several issues.

      Abbott said parental leave scheme over his government's dead body in 2002.

      But introduced in 2010.

      The same year that Abbott said no new taxes then announced a new 1.7% levy one month later.

      Abbott said farmers had the right to lock the gate against compulsory coal seam gas exploration then changed his mind 2 months later.

      Abbott bagged Gonski for the past 3 years then changed his mind within 24 hrs, promising to match the ALP dollar for dollar.

      Abbott and Hockey said they would abide by the Coalition's own Charter of Budget Honesty, then said this year they wouldn't be providing their budget bottomline and contemptously told us to add it up ourselves and go back in time to May 2013 for costings of a policy announced in Aug 2013.

      Abbott said Workchoices was "dead, buried, cremated" but has removal of unfair dismissal protection, slashing of penalty rates, reintroduction of individual, non-union, statutory contracts and a new body to overrule Fair Work Australia on the table.

      The Coalition said no the mining resources rent tax (MRRT) but are extending the petroleum resources rent tax (PRRT).

      Abbott lied about having a direct hotline to the Australian navy.

      Abbott lied about the Indonesian government acquiescing to his boats policy.

      Abbott has failed to mention the sale of Medibank Private in his "Our Plan" pamphlet.

      Abbott failed to mention the diversion of $800 million from foreign aid per his "Vision 2030" document leaked to News Ltd to fund his "northern special economic zone".

      Abbott has also failed to mention the public service jobs to be relocated to the remote north of Australia.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:25PM
    • And your point is?

      Commenter
      Neutral Voter
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:29PM
  • I think Kevin Rudd has just had his John Hewson moment, by not understanding how the GST works or the math, just to prove what an economic lightweight Kevin Rudd is with his GST scaremongering, he claims that a jar of Vegemite would go from $4.17 a jar to $4.69 a jar if the GST where increased to 12.5 %, incorrect, in his claim he has added another 12.5 % which is incorrect, the increase in fact would only be 2.5 % as the existing 10% GST already exists, putting the price up to about $4.27 if in fact the GST where to be raised, do we really want to trust Kevin on the economy or whoever advised him on these figures, perhaps that’s why he was in primary school last week, brushing up on year 3 maths.

    Commenter
    Peter G
    Location
    Drummoyne
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:58AM
    • Most food is currently exempt from the GST.

      Commenter
      Puzzled
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:14AM
    • “All I'm doing .. is saying if that's the case then people should know that that's 50 cents extra on a jar of Vegemite.”

      Where on earth is Rudd coming from: implying an Abbott plot to include GST on food? Did his unedifying porky comprise the fact that if the GST includes food those on low incomes and on CentreLink services will have to paid substantial increases? That’s assuming all of the states agree to expand the GST to food. Not to mention that the Coalition tax review is to evaluate the viability or otherwise of every tax. Only then if the GST is evaluated in need of change will the question be put to the States. Thereafter should the States unanimously agree to any proposed change it will be put to the electorate at the next election in 2016 for voters to decide? Our economic reality will most likely see the electorate vote for a change.

      Rudd is well aware of this stated democratic process that at the end of the day it will be the people’s choice as it should be via the ballot box to change the GST. However, Rudd could not help himself from degrading the democratic process with mendaciousness instead of honesty to win electorate support. His standard of shameful continuance of low Labor politics only justifies Murdoch’s opinion of worthlessness of Labor and Rudd.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:19AM
    • What’s your point puzzled, are you trying protect Kevin here or something, this is a huge gaffe mate.

      Commenter
      Peter G
      Location
      Drummoyne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:20AM
    • I notice the Labor Ministers have dropped the GST propaganda from their spin sheets today. The only time it's being mentioned by them is if a reporter brings it up. Rudd exposed for more lies.

      Commenter
      Lance
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:20AM
    • Not vegemite Puzzled.

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:21AM
    • Vegemite is a "spread used on bread" and like honey and other spreads, Vegemite is currently exempt from GST.

      That makes Rudd's calculation correct because if food is no longer exempt, and a 12.5% GST is applied to food and everything else, Vegemite will rise in price by 12.5%.

      Commenter
      TiredOfSpin
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:24AM
    • "Coalition leader Tony Abbott says the opposition will now rely on Treasury's pre-election fiscal outlook figures on the budget and the economy, contradicting Joe Hockey's claims last week that the official figures couldn't be trusted." Tony can backtrack obviously as seen with this comment....he could backtrack on GST too, but he'll convince you it's OK, because the LNP did it.

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:38AM
    • Tired of Spin,

      Thanks for correcting PeterG on the issue of Vegemite (beat me to it).

      Seems like the Liberal supporters don't understand their own policy.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:46AM
    • Yes, Notiad, vegemite is exempt from GST. Puzzled was right.

      There is a list of GST exempt foods provided by the Commonwealth. I think you should look it up before you tell puzzled he/ she is incorrect!!

      Commenter
      TiredOfSpin
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:53AM
    • Sorry if I was wrong but I think Vegemite is exempt so the calculation would be correct. That said, I'm certainly not protecting Dear Bleeder - the key assertions that Abbott is planning to hike and extend the GST are just fabrications (as usual).

      Commenter
      Puzzled
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:15PM
    • @ puzzled - Vegemite is NOT GST-free so Peter G is correct!

      Commenter
      Cynic
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:32PM
    • Geez. It is. It isn't. It is... no wonder John Hewson was confused.

      Commenter
      Puzzled
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:41PM
    • Cynic,

      Go down to your supermarket and buy a jar of Vegemite.

      Get a receipt.

      Look at the bottom of the receipt.

      Look carefully.

      The GST is 0.00.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:52PM
    • Yea, again, woopie do. The point was that if the Liberals apply GST to fresh food, then fresh food will cost 12.5% more. If he's picked the wrong jar to make the point, then so what, the point still stands. The point is, fresh food that costs $4.50 will cost around $5.06 with a GST of 12.5%, adding over 50 cents to the price.

      Focus on the real point people.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:19PM
    • Cynic,

      Buy 10 of the biggest jars of honey and 10 of the biggest and most expensive jars of jam as well and get a receipt.

      Make sure you buy them from Coles
      (I'm a shareholder)

      Still no GST.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:46PM
  • Tony Abbott's supporters all look quite old. He might need to hope that they don't die of old age before the election.

    Commenter
    Tom
    Location
    Canberra
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:56AM
    • And yet they have a policy to disallow residents of nursing homes to vote. And make voting non compulsory.
      Another confusing policy yet again.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:18AM
    • That is only the selection the Age editors give us. Suspect there are a few coalition supporters below 40.....

      Commenter
      NeoCon II
      Location
      In Orbit
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:29AM
    • Tony Abbotts supporters may look old but Kevin Rudds supporters have all been school kids...I think Abbott may have the votes in that battle.

      Commenter
      kp
      Location
      brisbane
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:54AM
  • Well at least the WA govt is doing something proactive. making 457 visa holders pay $4,000 pa for their children to attend public schools.
    I naively thought that they would already be contributing.
    Tony won't like this.

    Commenter
    A country gal
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:44AM
  • Susan Ley

    The dams were full before the last drought too?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:21AM
  • Of 40 comments only 2 mention climate change and then only in passing? The most important issue according to the polls is the economy, right? So what controls the economy?

    Education is important, right, try educating children in flooded Queensland schools? Paid for all of the flood damage yet have we?

    How many mines ceased production from floods? You do understand that increased atmospheric temperature begets more rain, right?

    What is the Great Barrier Reef worth to the economy? Sea temperatures have risen 0,5 degrees in recent times: another 2 degree increase and there will be no more Barrier Reef? Well there will, it will be a white bleached skeleton?

    "Statistics from the US department of agriculture show a record $17.2 billion was paid in crop insurance for the 2012 crop failure."

    By 2030 Australia will face:

    A further 1 degree Celsius of warming in temperatures

    Up to 20 per cent more months of drought

    Up to 25 per cent increase in days of very high or extreme fire danger

    Increases in storm surges and severe weather events.

    (Source: Federal Department of Industry, Innovation, Climate Change, Science, Research and Tertiary Education).

    And we have two passing comments on climate change, they say it all don't they?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:17AM
    • You certainly seem passionate about Climate Change. Good on you.

      Pity that nothing Australia can do will have the slightest effect whatsoever on global emissions.

      Unfortunately, the reality is that Australia needs to keep the best interests of Australians the main priority, as are the two emerging polluters in the world - China and India. Any emissions that Australia contributes are so miniscule as to have virtually no effect whatsoever on total global emissions.

      What has been truly stupid of our current government is to waste billions and billions of taxpayers money in inefficient "green" schemes, along with imposing a regressive tax on carbon dioxide emissions, resulting in some of our most energy intensive industries moving offshore to "dirtier" production facilities. Good one.

      Time for the madness to stop. When the rest of the world is also serious about Climate Change, then and only then, should Australia fulfil it's obligations. Not before.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:41AM
    • Wow Pen, something that we can agree on. If there is one policy that Labor had most right and could have improved upon it was the Carbon Tax - make polluters pay more than non-polluters to give an advantage to those businesses that don't pollute. And they could also have removed the subsidy to coal miners at the same time to give renewables a chance.

      There are now 3 reports written on how Australia can move to 100% renewables within 10 years, at least one of them is peer reviewed. They are the AEMO report, the University of New South Wales report, and the Zero Emissions report.

      Each one sets the price at about double the existing price of electricity, which is pretty good given that the cancer rate in the Latrobe Valley is currently 7 times the national average, and that is where they run the coal-fired power stations.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:42AM
    • alternate view....China is enlisting Australia's help in getting their ETS up and running by 2015......keep up will you?

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:55AM
    • Alternate View

      I despair of people like you I really do. We are greatest producer of emissions per capita than any other country in the world. Yes we produce more emissions per capita than China and the USA. And here you are blatantly saying that we should not do anything although on climate change infrastructure development we do not even rank in the top 100 countries.

      All I can say to you is to go away and learn and while doing so grow up.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:06AM
    • Tone

      You have a lot to learn.

      Capacity factor (CF) dictates one KW (1000 watt turbine running at 50% capacity for two hours provides one kilowatt hour (1 KWh) of power. CF measures how often an electric generator runs for a specific period of time, usually measured over one year.

      Typical wind farm efficiency: Hallett 4, total capacity 132.3 MW (MW = one million watts, or 1000 KW), cost A$334 million. CF denial: 132.3 x 24 hours x 365 days = 1158948 MWh (megawatt hours) at 100% capacity. Reality of CF: average CF for Hallett 32.5 % of full capacity = 376658 MWh (376.658 million KWh) annually, not the 100% capacity boasted by Labor?

      Sold domestically for 28 cents per KWh 376.658 million KWh = $1.054 billion per annum as opposed to $527000 per annum at previous 2005 rate of 14 cents per KWh. By driving up tariffs from 14 to 28 cents Labor policy made the most inefficient green energy (wind/voltaic solar) exceedingly profitable, why, coal?

      For Australia’s climate concentrated solar power (CSP) with salt storage is manifold more efficient than wind power, operating at base load quantities 24/7/365 days a year, capable of relegating coal as the primary power source to reserve source (see CSP in Spain and Arizona). Conversely inefficient green power delivers negative climate change by inability to keep pace with power demand of population growth, triggering annual coal production increases from 220-500 million tonnes?

      Increased coal production through wind and voltaic solar inefficiencies is detrimental to climate change and taxpayer wishes. Irrespective while continuing with coal expansion and ignoring CSP hence, Gillard taxes carbon, increases emissions, for no positive climate change, and allowed doubling of tariffs.

      Labor preaches: “we are reducing emissions”? Labor hasn’t reduced emissions! Our emissions are rising dramatically each year.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:17AM
    • Pen. enough with the per capita rubbish. In real terms we produce next to nothing because our number of capitas is so small. By land mass size we are one of the smallest contributors. Per capita is just spin. OPur % of global emissions is next to nothing.

      Commenter
      dcs
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:43AM
    • Speaking of flood damage in Qld, Tony Abbott opposed the ALP's flood levy used to help Qld recover.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:49AM
    • Pen,

      You need to check your figures, because Australia is no longer the highest emitters per capita. However even if we are, who cares? Not I, because with approximately 1.4% only of the world's total CO2 emisions, and remembering that it is the TOTAL emissions which determine climate change, not just who emits more or less per person, your argument is misleading, possibly deliberately so.

      Everyone talks about China implementing an ETS. Well, let them do it and actually enforce it, before we follow suit. It's just more hot air and probably deliberate deception by climate change advocates. England was going to do it too right? Err, no. The will do it when everyone else does... just like we should.

      Australia (so far) has made a deliberate decision not to use nuclear power. Many countries that have low emissions per capita utilise that form of power generation. Maybe we should do that then?

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:53AM
    • Speaking of the Great Barrier Reef, the Coalition wants to expand the Abbott Point coal terminal in northern Queensland which will put the reef at risk of environmental damage.

      Abbott also wants the Aboriginal Land Council to open up more land to mining, hence his choice of Warren Mundine.

      Abbott is intent on more coal seam gas exploration in prime agricultural land in Qld hence his call to make northern Australia our new food bowl.

      The Coalition has opposed the ALP's efforts to establish and protect marine parks.

      Abbott has deemed Tasmania a "special economic zone" (money before the environment) which puts the Tasmanian wilderness at risk of environmental degradation.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:54AM
    • pen, the reason CC is not being addressed is because Abbott has spent over 3 years banging on about "bad tax".
      Addressing CC is now deemed a negative and let's just brush it under the carpet and pretend it's not happening.
      That's the sole reason, I can't think of any other reason. I work with threatened species on occasion and can tell you it is well and truly still on the radar with the experts. The 200km "shift" in climate is often considered. Many are extremely worried about funding, or lack of it under an Abbott govt.
      Their concerns are valid.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:11PM
    • Alternate View

      Check out concentrated solar power with salt storage in Spain and Arizona.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:23PM
    • Sorry Pen, I read your exceptionally wordy reply and I don't see your point? What is it specifically that who were trying to say?

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:30PM
  • Australia

    Let me be frank, the bottom line is, you will still vote for me because, lets be real here, I am on twitter.

    I have taxed everything already, and hey u still love me as your preferred lord and master.

    Anyone that ever swore to anyone in my team will be sent to work for the AWU .

    My good friends of the union, (who never swear at all because they are all private school educated) will attest I am their leader of choice and therefore as good Australians you will do as the unions say and vote for me.

    I did not use notes to type this comment.

    Commenter
    Kevin07
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 10:00AM
    • Wow, the way that started, I thought it was going to be about Tony Abbott's belief that he is entitled to the top position in the land. Why? Well, because he's a Liberal, of course!

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:06AM
    • Very funny..and clever.

      Commenter
      thereisnoyouinLabor
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:10AM
    • Lovin' it Kevin07,
      I mean lovin' the humour of you - the funny Kevin07
      ( am definitely not Lovin' the real Kevin 07 that was Kevin in 2007 and is now Kevin in 2013 - the real Kevin with the flyaway hair)

      btw other good humour can be found on twitter at@KevinsFringe
      ( and yes I know I said I never would but I have joined Twitter and @KevinsFringe is the funniest of the Campaign so far imho)

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:44AM
    • Australia

      Let me be frank, the bottom line is, you will vote for me because, lets be real my
      "speech did not need policy content", "there was enough in it already to “stay on message’’, "there were sufficient personal anecdotes “for the commentariat to say ‘yes he is a good bloke and yes he is more fair dinkum’.’’

      I will withhold my policy costings like I did at the last 2010 election, and claim I had a mandate for mass privatisation of public assets, outsourcing and offshoring of jobs, industrial relations reforms including removing unfair dismissal protection, slashing penalty rates, reintroducing statutory, non-union individual contracts and creating a new body to overrule Fair Work Australia decisions, although I fail to openly campaign on these issues at all - much as we did during the 1996 election when we failed to campaign on 457 visas, and 2004 when we completely failed to campaign on Workchoices.

      Anyone that ever disagreed with my costings will be sacked or relocated to the remote north of Australia, starting with Treasury officials, the CSIRO and the Department of Climate Change.

      My good friend of the employer union ACCI, Peter Hendy, is an industrial relations hardliner, and is standing in the marginal bellwether seat of Eden-Monaro with my full support.

      I promise to use weasel words like "Commission of Audit", "white paper on tax" "cutting green tape", "cutting red tape" to mask my true intentions which involves $75 billion worth of savage spending cuts and tax hikes as reported in the Financial Review 2013.

      Abbott 2007,2010 and 2013

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:08PM
    • Tristan
      You are unfunny mate

      By the way has anyone told you that the Coalition are not touching the GST? Let me be the one -
      The Coalition are not changing the GST.

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:18PM
    • @ Triston

      Great work, wonderful comments, best of the day!

      Commenter
      Rod
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:33PM
    • yys,

      I'm not trying to be funny, I'm being accurate.

      Has anyone told you that we have 4 Liberal state governments in WA, Vic, NSW and Qld, a Country Liberal Party in the NT and 2 traitorous ALP Premiers in Tasmania and the ACT, agitating for either a hike in the GST or the broadening of the base.

      Both Kevin Rudd and Penny Wong have categorically refused to tinker with the GST and they have demonstrated this commitment by omitting the GST from their review of tax.

      Compare this with Abbott and Hockey who say it's up to the states to make the case for increasing the GST.

      I'm not persuaded by this Coalition tactic of not saying what they really mean, and lying via omission of information.

      When the ALP say that they will protect penalty rates, they enshrine it in legislation.

      When the ALP say that they will tighten 457 visa regulations (which Abbott and the Coalition continue to oppose and voted against), they enshrine it in legislation.

      When the Coalition said they would produce "more jobs, higher wages", they introduced Workchoices and AWAs which undercut award and EBA pay and conditions,

      Enough said.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:44PM
    • Hey Tristan.

      Something tells me you were the kid at school who took someones "Why did the chicken cross the road?" joke and made it a "Why did the Turkey cross the road?" joke just to appear original. Yeah I know, it's funny because it's not a chicken right?

      Good effort though. Keep trying.

      Commenter
      Smokin Mo
      Location
      Ryde
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:29PM
    • Smokin Mo,

      And you're that kid who always wasted their time goofing around at school with your mates, and resorting to insults instead of debating the issues.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:54PM
    • Tristan
      It's not a matter of 'enough said'
      I honestly haven't got time to spend all day on my computer with comments in reply to your comments.
      This is the last comment from me to you about the GST.
      The GST is a Tax
      The GST was taken to the election as a policy by Howard in 1998. The Howard Government won that election.
      The GST was implemented by Costello in 2000. Pre implementationThe Democrats made some modifications.
      The world did not end when the GST came in.
      The GST is a TAx
      The Coalition if they are elected will do a review of all taxes.
      Because he GST is a TAx
      the GST will get reviewed as part of a general review of taxes.
      Enough said.

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Labor: ScaremongersRUs
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:06PM
  • You know the libs are desperate when they whinge about Rudds hair...I mean they dont give us their costings nooo they prefer to whinge about Rudd flicking his hair,just whinge whinge whinge about nothing.Sad so sad.

    Commenter
    Abbottollah of Arrogance
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:59AM
    • Can you show us the Labor costings??

      Didn't think so.

      Commenter
      Tim of Altona
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:19AM
    • Its on their website

      Commenter
      Steeden
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:35AM
    • Actually, I must prefer to whinge about a Prime Minister who needs to break the rules of a national debate, just to be able to make a semi-coherent argument.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:44AM
    • ha the real labor costings are $300 billion in debt with interest payments now at $13 billion a year! whats that 3 new hospitals, a three lane highway Brisbane to Sydney. what joke

      Commenter
      impy
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:55AM
  • English boat immigrant Abbott doesnt need notes...I mean how hard is it to forget 3 word slogans?

    Commenter
    Steeden
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:54AM
    • Your English boat immigrant mantra aimed at Abbott perfectly reflects why Labor are dead and buried in this election.

      You homophobic statements are pushing votes to the coalition.

      Commenter
      Tim of Altona
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:07AM
    • Pretty sure Rudd could find "a new way".

      Commenter
      thereisnoyouinLabor
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:12AM
    • Steeden, I don't care whether Rudd used notes during the debate, he is a loser anyway.
      Just look at the odds from the bookies this morning, Libs $1-13 and Labor $6-00.
      It seems as though the hue and cry is coming from Labor supporters who are up early pounding their keyboards, still I suppose when you are unemployed there is nothing else to do.

      Commenter
      thepres
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:21AM
    • Why so upset?..Are you embarrassed about having a born and bred Englishman who came here on a boat and being groomed by a disgraced American media mogul in murdoch to be our Australian P.M? ...I know I am...I prefer a born and bred Aussie like Rudd for PM..and so do others.

      Commenter
      Steeden
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:27AM
    • Steeden, are you running for One Nation?

      I think the ALP would prefer you to shut up.

      Commenter
      Tim of Altona
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:38AM
    • Steeden
      As I said to you last week, You are beating a drum that is well past it's use by date.
      Everyone in Australia has come from some where else. Your attempt at divisiveness is tiresome and shows your ignorance.

      WE ARE Australian.

      Commenter
      yys
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:56AM
  • So at 10:44, is Tony Abbott trying mouth-to-mouth resuscitation with that women, or is he immitating a fish kiss?

    Commenter
    Tone
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:52AM
    • Scary isn't it. He's given up on the unreceptive babies and now going for the Mums. Back of the head, ear, anywhere. Least he's sparing us of his "leftie Lycra".

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:53AM
  • Rudd's spent the last few weeks sharpening his skills at primary schools across the country.
    Nobody told him last nights debate was an "adults" forum.

    Commenter
    dRod
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:51AM
    • Imagine his dummy spit after that debate!

      Commenter
      beasleyst
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:03AM
    • My bet is that one ALP staffer who handed Rudd the notes was then given them back several times across the back of the head in the rolled up format

      Commenter
      M&M's
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:35AM
  • The most important thing is to concentrating on the economy, but the climate controls the economy.

    On climate change Abbott said, “We will deliver the 5 per cent reduction... I generally do not deal in hypotheticals.”

    Rudd said, “Climate change is central to Australia's future that emissions are trending down.”

    Hypotheticals? Trending down? Our pathetic target for Greenhouse gas emission reduction is “5% below those of 2000 by 2020”. According to United Nations Statistics Division our emissions in 2000 were 17.2 tonnes per capita with a population of 19.2 million = 330.24 million tonnes of emissions of which 5% is 16.51 million tonnes.
    Our energy production is responsible for 76.9% of Australia’s net emissions. By 2002 our coal production of 220 million tonnes = 629 million tonnes of C02 emissions alone; in two years our supposed 330.24 million tonnes of emissions had more than doubled? By 2012 coal production alone was 500 million tonnes producing 1.43 billion tonnes of emissions; estimated coal production in 2017 = 800 million tonnes = 2.288 billion tonnes of emissions.

    Add transport activity another major source of emissions contributing 83.2 million tonnes of Australia’s net emissions in 2010. Bearing in mind that emissions from this sector were 32% higher in 2010 than in 1990. And toad transport was the main source of transport emissions in 2010, accounting for 71.5 million tonnes with passenger cars accounting for 41.7 million tonnes in emissions.

    Consider that Australians required 230 billion KWh of electricity this year, based on the 14 cents increase x 230 billion = $32.2 billion and our emissions reduction plan is for a farcical number that is supported by two farcical liars?

    If the economy is the most important issue consider increasing draught on food production, flooded mines, higher temperatures on manufacturing?

    Hype? Trending down?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:51AM
  • The Liberals seem very desperate to call Rudd a cheat this morning. It must have been in the morning briefing email to Liberal supporters.

    It's only being used to deflect from Abbott's $50 Billion black hole, which was identified from independent analysis. Oh, and the fact that Abbott is a hollowman with no substance and all hot air.

    Commenter
    Tone
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:50AM
    • Tone,

      So it's gone from $70b last night to $50b today? It's coming down almost as quickly as the ALP's debt goes up!

      Commenter
      beasleyst
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:59AM
    • Tone - he is a cheat and this has been confirmed by David Spears who was the moderator of the debate - we watched the PM walk off the stage with his bundle under his arm - just to see the PM reading his opening and closing address from notes on the lectern in front of him and not looking at the camera should have given you a clue

      Commenter
      Baltic13
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:04AM
    • What the ALP should be looking at is how much the average wage will be taxed under the Coalition !

      Commenter
      Rod
      Location
      the Coast
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:12AM
    • Yes beaslyst, the independent analysis says it is $50 Billion, but I'm sure Labor still believes it is $70 Billion.

      It's a huge black hole, isn't it beaslyst?

      I wonder how they are going to get the money, whether they will cut important services, or increase the GST?

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:13AM
    • Woopie do Baltic, who cares? Have you got anything constructive to add to the debate other than hot air? Perhaps a policy or a costing?

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:26AM
    • You seem upset that people are calling out Rudd for what he did - cheat. Why are you upset that people noticed him cheating? Do you think that the rules should only apply to a conservative and that rudd and the left can ignore them if they wish?
      The double standards from the progressives comes as no suprise to anyone.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:27AM
    • Double standard Denny? Oh perhaps we should take a look at a few of Abbott's statements then. He has stated that no one should believe a word he says unless it's written down. So what he is saying is that he will cheat the public by saying lies to get into power. Then when it was written down, he renegged on it anyway and blamed Labor. He cheated then as well because he has agreed to their bipartisan dodginess.

      Neither Liberal nor Labor deserve my $2.47 first preference vote. I will vote for someone else first, and I certainly won't be voting for Teflon Tony.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:32AM
    • Tone - you wont be voting for teflon Tony eh? Well there is a suprise. Never figured that one out. It seems you place a lot of weight bon an interview that Abbott did 3.5 years ago. Do you also hold Rudd to the same standards? No. Didnt think so. That is the way of the progressive and the way of Tone. Tone wake up mate, Rudd cheated. Accept it.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:40AM
    • The fact that you are so intent on concentrating on whether Rudd cheated just shows how shallow you people are. Give me some policies and costings please. And tell us how you're going to pay for this independently costed $50 Billion black hole too please.

      You seem quite excited about this whole cheating thing. It must excite you immensely, and I hope the people see it for what it is - a diversion from hollow Teflon Tony's rubbish policies and costings..

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:42PM
  • Re Sportingbet - 13% return within 26 days on an $80,000 investment is not bad.

    The odds on the Coalition will shorten from here on in - $1.01 by Sept 6?

    Commenter
    Tim of Altona
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:29AM
  • Tony says repeatedly that he is "going to stop the waste". I assume he means stop wasteful spending. Can anyone find any wasteful spending (that is current, not of 6 years ago) that he would cut? and who determines if this is wasteful?

    Commenter
    JT
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:23AM
    • To JT and there not being any waste in spending.
      Currently we are spending around $13million on every boat that arrives , on surveillance , food , accommodation , medical facilities etc , all because Kevin started up the boats again , how do Australians who have to pay for health insurance and have to wait for medical attention when boat people have it all paid for feel.
      Of course JT doesn't want previous wastage mentioned , a billion to fix up the home insulation stuff up , millions to set up grocery watch and petrol watch both of which were abandoned , computers in schools which cost 4 times more than it should have etc etc.

      Commenter
      William
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:46AM
    • Advertising in local Australian newspapers to Boat Smugglers!

      Commenter
      beasleyst
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:48AM
    • Tony can't cut spending that was 6 years ago...we don't spend on a pink batts scheme now...he can only cut spending that he deems wasteful currently. Your boats spending thingo is ridiculous....if you think that using the Navy to force boats back to Indonesia doesn't cost anything and offshore processing in Nauru to have to refugees come to Australia anyway costs nothing then you have been conned. What wasteful spending can Tony cut?

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:04AM
    • mmmmm......doesn't seem any LNP supporter with knowledge of what they stand for in detail can answer this one?

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:09AM
  • Of course the notes matter. They were the rules! Rudd broke them.
    Even without Rudd doing that or focusing on that issue, Abbott was obviously the far better performer on the night. So much for all the hype about Rudd and his debating skills!

    Commenter
    Vicki
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:18AM
    • Who gives a rats about their debating skills? Only the rusted on Liberal supporters! Winning or losing a debate is irrelevant in the scheme of things. Why aren't you people focused on policy and costings? I'm waiting...

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:44AM
    • Tone - We are focussed on costings.. cept right now there is a breaking story about why Kevin Rudd can't be trusted. How Kevin Cheated. Honesty and Trustworthiness are fare more important than details. If The politician is trustworthy and honest they do not need to bother us with details.. we will trust them to look after it. Kevin it seems can't be trusted with a simple debate. How can we trust him with the country??

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:40AM
    • Who gives a rats about honesty and integrity? Certainly not labor, its supporters or Tone. The lack of principle in labor should be a concern for everybody. It seems that regardless of the behaviour of Rudd or Gillard, the left are always prepared to look the other way

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:41AM
    • Bit rich of Liberal supporters attacking Rudd when it was Abbott who said :

      "Misleading the ABC isn't quite the same as misleading the Parliament as a political crime"

      when Abbott defended his lies about his ironically and moronically named "Australians for Honest Politics" trust slush fund.

      Abbott told Kerry O'Brien on the 7.30 Report that besides carefully scripted statements, he couldn't always be trusted to tell the gospel truth.

      But then later Abbott proved this year he still could not be trusted when he made a carefully scripted letter with his signature about campaign funding, and went back on his word, which is obviously worthless.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:24PM
  • Paul Howes' contribution to the age of enlightenment?

    Still, perhaps it's better than honing knives.

    "We've got your back Prime Minister"

    Commenter
    Louis Cypher
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:12AM
    • Paul who?

      Commenter
      FD
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:48AM
  • It's not cheating when it's Labor breaking the rules they agreed to.

    Commenter
    RussBucket
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:11AM
    • And it's definitely not cheating when Tony Abbott says not to believe a word he says unless it's written down. And it's definitely not cheating when he renegs on a dodgy agreement to increase both Liberal and Labor's political funding that he had previously agreed to that was in writing.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:46AM
  • Keep Kevin Flyers demonstrate why everything is wrong with Labor Party. It should be Keep Labor. Not focusing on the singular one person. If Labor going down this route, maybe they should just simply rename the party. The Kevin Rudd party. Because nothing else is coming through about it, unless its ALL ABOUT RUDD.

    Commenter
    Sarah of Carnegie
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:08AM
  • Warren Mundine's reported comment this morning is very telling.

    He said that if you don't like Tony Abbott, then don't ever meet him. apparently if you do, you will know that he's not the demon that the ALP and many commentators would have you believe.

    And that is from a previous ALP party president.

    Enough said.

    Commenter
    Alternate View
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 9:04AM
    • Two men:

      One who is admired and well liked by those that meet him and work with him, yet "not liked" by the public.
      One that is despised and not trusted by those that know him and work with him, yet "liked" by the public.

      We are a superficial lot.

      Commenter
      notlad
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:08AM
    • Yes notlad, so many people say Tony Abbott would be really bad but can't back it up with anything other than what the ALP have said is bad about him.
      My neighbour has consulted to both major parties and has always said Tony Abbott gets a really bad wrap that is totally unwarranted. He says he is one of the nicer guys and always has time to listen.

      Commenter
      dRod
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:26AM
    • Let's hear from others.

      Heather Ridout spoke at length about Abbott's insincerity and lack of commitment to a parental leave scheme, and its inequity as did Barnaby Joyce who has not ruled out crossing the floor.

      Abbott's parental leave scheme ($5 billion p.a) which he failed to consult his party on, and his direct action plan (62 per tonne and $720 p.a for the average household) have both been rubbished by his own party which continue to agitate for him to drop both policies.

      Malcolm Turnbull described Abbott as a climate sceptic using his direct action on climate policy - a "con" , an "environmental figleaf" to "disguise a determination to do nothing".

      Peter Costello called Abbott an "economic illiterate" and respected economist Saul Eslake backed that view more kindly by saying that Abbott doesn't have a natural feel for market forces - Abbott said in parliament that floating the dollar was a mistake, and has been a proven failure in all of his previous portfolios presiding over widespread rorting and billion dollar budget blowouts in both his Job Network and Medicare Plus safety net schemes.

      Commenter
      Tristan
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:08PM
    • Wow Tristan! Your total recall of everything that Tony Abbott had said or has been said about him is truly outstanding.

      Pity you can't apply the same talent to our beloved Prime Minister, because he is a much more fertile source of contridictions, indeed his are easer to remember because they can happen in a very short period of time. Unlike a large amount of the ALP "material" on TA, which is ancient history.

      Remember, it was KRudd, prior to the 2007 election, who vowed to make it illegal for the Government to spend on advertising without the opposition leader's approval... Hmm, that went well didn't it?

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:00PM
  • Tony Abbott has also spent quite a lot of time in Rudds electorate of Griiffith, flanked by LNP candidate Dr. Bill Glasson. The seat is definitely winnable. Expect to see more of Abbott back there before polling day. Rudd is not as popular there as he seems to think. Could be a Maxine McKew type result.

    Commenter
    Facts are
    Location
    Brisbane
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 8:57AM
    • What fun that would be...

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:05AM
  • There was only one person that looked Prime Ministorial last night - and that was Tony Abbott who spoke from the heart and with conviction without notes, directly down the camera to the people.

    Kevin Rudd has exposed his lack of actual substance by his reliance on what were obviously pre-prepared opening and closing speeches, very obviously read from notes on his lectern.

    And to think he was the one who wanted to "debate" TA. What a joke.

    Commenter
    Alternate View
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 8:47AM
    • Spot on! There was a winner and it was clearly Abbott.
      Only a Labor supporter would say it was even or they "both" were no good.
      When Labor lose they always repeat the mantra "both".
      Well done TA.

      Commenter
      Richard
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:15AM
  • @10.33 - "Keep Kevin"

    Labor should be admonished for dis-incentivising people to enrol to vote!

    Commenter
    Tim of Altona
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 8:46AM
  • Well it's all about Abbott bulldust........the only way Abbott can get a surplus now is to cut services to the bone, tax revenue is not there. But listen to all the parrots on this site...."we must cut the debt down and have a surplus again"! 3 years of a slogan and look how it works. What's happened to Howard's repetitive slogan now Abbott......interest rates can only be low under an LNP govt.......budget surpluses can only be under an LNP govt........come in spinner.

    Commenter
    JT
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 8:34AM
    • What nonsense. Australian tax revenues have risen steadily for the last 6 years, but the ALP Minority Government has decided at every budget to spend more than it's received.

      The ALP announced "shortfalls" in revenue have only been in the spurious and overly optimistic budget predictions, not in actual revenues.

      Now we are faced with having to lift the debt ceiling again, past $300 billion as a result of the ALP's addication to spending.

      And both Disability Care AND Gonski could be funded entirely by the interest payments on the money borrowed by the Government in the last 6 years.

      Not to mention $2 billion per year being spent now on immigration, which was a problem that did not exist prior to 2008.

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:59AM
    • Sorry alternate view.....what you say is just absolute parroted propaganda rubbish.....come in spinner

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:09AM
    • JT,

      Just trying to work out which one of the comments is propoganda? If I go back and review each of the last 3 budgets, the details would support the analysis given.

      Not that Labor would stoop as low would they? Like the LNP increasing the GST or the "$70 billion" budget black hole.

      Commenter
      Smokin Mo
      Location
      Ryde
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:12AM
    • The propaganda smokin joe is in the interpretation of having a budget deficit now. We have a deficit that is appropriate for world economic conditions (yes its a global economy now and we are part of it). And, its a pretty good deficit in comparison to other world economies. If we had the only deficit in the world , then we would have a problem. Tony has convinced you with propaganda that we have a debt problem when we don't.

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:42AM
    • Yes, the so-called "$70 billion black hole" and the GST scare are perfectly legitimate ALP "truths".

      The ALP can rack up three times that amount in actual deficits in only 6 years.

      And what about the Carbon Tax broken promise?

      And the MRRT which raises no revenue?

      How on earth could ANYONE trust the ALP to calculate anything, let alone the Coalition's policies?

      Commenter
      Alternate View
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:53AM
    • We don't have a debt problem alternate view....broken promises have always been on both sides of parliament, telling falsies and mostly untruths also occur on both sides of politics, but deliberate attempts to deceive such as the old "interest rates are always higher under Labor", vote for the LNP OR "Labor always has higher budget deficits, vote for the LNP" only belong to the LNP.

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:06AM
    • Alternate view. +1. JT, seriously what planet are you on. At least try to make a credible argument and come up with something that cant be so easily refuted or within recent living memory. Your arguments are fluff at best. Its always a good time for a deficit and more borrowings under the ALP. History has proven that.

      Commenter
      Blower
      Location
      Turac
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:05PM
    • blower...I'm waiting to be refuted....maybe you can do it? Find me an article written by an established economist who is a political ie an economist (not a politician) that actually says that the govt budget deficit now, in these global economic conditions, is a bad thing and we should have a surplus now. You've got till about 4pm!

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:16PM
    • You already have been by Alternate view. Hasn't it been the ALP case for a budget surplus. Oh that's right its no longer an issue only because they have never been able to achieve one yet Govt revenues have risen. What year in the last 30 did the ALP have a surplus. Should be one there......somewhere!! Just happens to been an economic downturn when ever the ALP is in Govt and the need for debt and deficit. How silly of me and what rotten luck for the ALP. You have until the 7th of Sept to come to your senses!!

      Commenter
      Blower
      Location
      Turac
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:50PM
    • I'm asking to be refuted by a credible non political economist. Find me one (not alternate view) please. I'm saying in these global economic conditions Australia's budget deficit is not a problem and is an appropriate level for these global conditions to not allow us into a double dip recession like the UK. The LNP are the only ones complaining about the deficit through propaganda for votes, noone else. If LNP were in govt the last 3 years...they could have done like the UK and try to have a surplus but we would be in recession now OR have a deficit to stimulate jobs. It would be the same for any political party so the LNP cannot truthfully lay the blame on Labor. Blower.....put up or sorry your comments lose all credibility. BTW...I bet you can't!

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 1:14PM
  • Your report at 9.16am - photo taken by Andrew Meares - the PM talks about trust - when he has cheated as the moderator David Spears has confirmed in a debate demanded by him - "A New Way" to cheat - what a disgrace

    Commenter
    Baltic13
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 8:34AM
  • I will vote for the party that outlines some policies that will provide the sort of society I would like for Australia for the future. As far as I can see there is only one party who has any vision at all for Australian society....the other must be offering a subliminal desire to be rich again....... if Tony can get in with no policy except to scrap some taxes, pay maternity leave, use the Navy to force back some leaky boats, fix up some roads, get the aged in society to cut up some red tape and plant a few trees. Did I miss one? Wow what a future to look forward to.

    Commenter
    JT
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:49AM
    • "If Tony can get in with no policy except".. This long list of policies..
      JT you can't say no policy then rattle off a list of them. They either have No policies OR they have policies that you do not agree with.
      "This mob have no policies and I do not agree with any of them"..."They have no plans and all of them are scary and involve the GST"
      I guess this is a perfect rationale for someone who thinks it is a good idea to vote Labor

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:04AM
    • I said "no policy, except....". This means that I can not work out any other policy initiative for Australian society from the LNP except for those I listed. Not an exciting future if that's it for policy from the LNP

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:16AM
    • You forgot one policy. To stop the economic mismanagement that has resulted in massive deficits despite working with the largest federal tax revenue base that Australia has ever seen. Stopping the waste, more important even that stopping the boats.

      Commenter
      dcs
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:42AM
    • We don't have massive deficits...we have a budget deficit associated with world economic conditions and better than other developed nations in the world. To "stop the economic mismanagement that has resulted in massive deficits" is a slogan attacking a non existent problem.....so the LNP don't have a policy for it or have not named any cuts to spending that I know of. Do you know of any...oh maybe the schoolkids bonus....any more???

      Commenter
      JT
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:51AM
    • The policies Abbott does mention are minor and not enough to make any change or improvement.

      dcs - Stop economic mismanagement? HOW will Abbott do this? Notice how this is a 3 word slogan? If you can't answer this the you are a fool who is happy to follow the illusion of a policy with no real substance. Stop the boats - HOW? Cut red tape? HOW? Pay for the promised tax cuts? HOW?

      Commenter
      QED
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:49AM
    • JT: firstly, name the ALP's policies they implemented - or (for example) "I got the mandate for changing the Pacific Solution." He also got the mandate for about 20 more things he promised - and then dropped them all; selective mandates? Re financials: we are for the last year or so the third-highest borrower - facts, mate, no political waffle ...

      Commenter
      ET
      Location
      Lakesland
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 2:08PM
  • If it was Tony Abbott who read notes instead of Kevin Rudd then labor would be making mountains out of it, especially after Kevin Rudd big noted his supposed debating skills before the debate.

    However, even with Rudd using cheat notes, he still did not beat Abbott. Not even close.

    I agree it was a lack lustre event, but Rudd needed a resounding victory - instead he looked and sounded depressed. If anything Krudd looked like he lost while Abbott looked Prime Ministerial.

    Commenter
    kp
    Location
    brisbane
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:46AM
    • Abbott didn't look Prime Ministerial. He was the same guy he has always been, whatever you think that is.

      I agree that Rudd needed a clear victory and didn't get it. He spoke well on climate change and marriage equality, but I don't know how many votes there is for him on those matters that weren't already going to him (or going to him after a first preference for the Greens).

      There were obvious free kicks- like Abbott accepting the Government's plans on aged care, and on Gonski- that Rudd just completely failed to take in order to focus on the GST scare. I think Abbott dealt with the GST scare well, but when Abbott referred to "embarassing scare campaigns" Rudd needed to mention the mining tax and carbon tax scare campaigns but didn't.

      Rudd was often negative when it wasn't effective (to me) but wasn't negative when he actually needed to be.

      Abbott meanwhile gave another substance-free, small-target, sloganeering performance. He just can't give a straight answer on his costings, and that's his weak spot, and he left that open.

      As a debate it felt like a nil-all draw. In the circumstances of the campaign, it's a win for Abbott because he didn't lose.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:15AM
    • "..He was the same guy he has always been''
      Arky thats the point. Like him or not you know what you are getting with Tony, he is stable. Kevin has had more positions than a mime artist with A.D.H.D.
      Kevin is not reliable or predictable. Kevin lacks any believable convictions. We need stability in politics. And ..."Tony is the same guy he always was..." That's why most people trust Tony more than Kevin... even if they don't like him.

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:35AM
    • The worm does not agree with you and 3 out of 4 TV stations gave it to Rudd.

      Commenter
      WRE
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:48AM
    • Cwitty- speak for yourself. Abbott is stable, yes- the same guy who made all those comments about women (including that there's nothing wrong with men having more power than women), the same guy who called climate change BS and now tries to pretend he didn't, the same guy who has no idea about anything scientific or technical and has no plans for developing the new economy beyond "more mining", the same guy who wouldn't apologise to the Stolen Generations.

      He's stuck in the past and can't deal with the future. Being stable in this way is NOT a positive.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:50AM
  • People shouldn't be surprised that Rudd cheated in last night's debate. It is one of the enduring characteristics of this Prime Minister. Surely Rudd should be able to tell the Australian people his vision for the nation's future without having to read from a script prepared by his American advisors.

    Commenter
    Nulla
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:37AM
    • The Prime Ministership of this country is not a memory competition.

      Nor was loudly laughing over Rudd's comments a very Prime Ministerial moment (or within the rules) by Abbott.

      One would prefer both candidates to get the facts right than to prove how long they spent memorising their speeches.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:07AM
    • Arky - TRUST.. We just want to be able to trust that he will do what he says he will do. If he says no notes then take no notes. We want to to TRUST him. We really do, he just wont let us.

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:20AM
    • Cwitty- Tony Abbott himself said that you can't trust what he says off the cuff and only what he says from prepared statements. Oh the irony.

      I believe Rudds team when they said that when they agreed to that rule they thought it meant notes as props. Rudd wasn't exactly secretive about using the notes. Abbott could obviously see them before the debate even began and didn't mention it.

      I'm still flabberghasted the media gives a free pass to the Coalition to talk about trust- such as the whole "Ju-liar" thing- given the history of lies from the Coalition when Abbott was a Minister and while Abbott is Opposition Leader. From children overboard to "audited" costings which not only were not audited but which they signed an agreement not to audit. Much more significant than notes at a debate.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:37AM
    • So let me get this straight. Because the Prime Minister read from notes, you people seem to think he can't be trusted. It's a bit of a stretch. I think some of you people live in fairy land.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:15AM
    • Arky - great old chestnut that one. I knthat you and the left love to judge people on their words. Perhaps its about time you judged people on their actions. Here is a few labor words/actions you might like to comment on:
      1. There are no circumstances under which I wil stand for leader of the labor party. Then he stood;
      2. Labor promised wilkie action on gambling before shaft him; and finally to keep it short
      3. Rudd cheating on the rules that he agreed to.

      Are there any circumstances where you hold labor to account or can they lie, steal and cheat whenever they see fit to do so?

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:59AM
    • Denny - aren't you past this? I am. Circumstances change. We all do things that we said in another time and place we were not going to do. All politicians make "grace" statements in order to help healing.

      How about he said instead - I intend standing again when circumstances change? Then the media would have been incessant in trying to find out in what circumstances he would challenge.the government could not have continued.

      "Grace" statements assist the overall stability of the party. Why Rudd is getting so much attention about this I don't know. If you look back at political history, lots of politicians from both sides said they would not do whatever and later did.

      For me it is a DEAD issue!!

      Commenter
      TiredOfSpin
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:36AM
    • Tired of spin - can you explain how the circumstances chaged between rudd standing and the last time he said he wouldnt? The only circumstances that changed was that more labor mp's decided to sell their souls and vote for him. Only in the mind of a pregressive does this constitute a change in ncircumstances.

      Doest take away from the proven fact that Rudd is a cheat.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 12:55PM
  • With the cheating in the debate has Labor lost their perceived advantage? At the end of the debate and before "notegate" there seemed to be no advantage to labor, now there seems to be a slight advantage to Liberal because of the 'Trust' problem Labor have made by using notes.
    They have already jumped the shark with Premier Peter. But what next for team Labor? Will they try and jump the shark again with Premier Steve? WIll they bring in Kristina Keneally to manage the Rudd Hair flick? Labor will jump the shark again, there will be another big stunt they have no other choice. Predicting the next labor shark jump, is as much fun as watching the stunt itself. Any Suggestions??

    Commenter
    Cwitty
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:34AM
    • How about a few more show ponies?

      Commenter
      ultra
      Location
      Mel
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:29AM
    • Love your work Ultra.
      ALP need a horse. Then Kev could say
      "I am Kevin. I am from Queensland. I am here to help.... I am on a horse"
      Just like the old spice guy in th tv adds..

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:31AM
    • Cwitty, Abbott's already been that's and done that. did you miss that performance?

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:19AM
    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqHP-LtEN7w

      This was made back in mid 2010.

      Please keep up.

      Commenter
      Angie
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 11:59AM
  • The shrillness of the Labor supporters who awoke this morning to learn that Rudd had crashed and burned in last nights debate is defeaning. Some are even claiming Abbott was also reading from notes. Nice try.

    Bottom line - the Vegemite kid squibbed it. Let's see how many more debates Rudd pushes for now.

    Commenter
    Tim of Altona
    Location
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:34AM
    • Shouldn't you be Tim of Glenelg or some such now?

      Commenter
      Norm
      Location
      Maroubra
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 7:39AM
    • I think the suburb is Brighton.

      Perhaps I change to Tim of Norman Park (Rudd's Brisbane suburb)

      Commenter
      Tim of Altona
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:28AM
    • Tim you obviously went to bed and did not watch the debate. Abbott looked like a cheesy car salesman.

      Commenter
      WRE
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:45AM
  • Those of us in New South Wales already know that the gay issue is dead because it has already played out in NSW Labor.

    Rudd supports gay marriage (wins the gay vote) and then the Labor right under a conscience votes stops it (quietly reassuring the religious right in key seats that it isn't going to happen).. What a furphy!

    Commenter
    Vulture
    Location
    Gladesville
    Date and time
    August 12, 2013, 7:23AM
    • The gay vote is significant. Rudd's been planning this announcement months ago while plotting to topple Gillard from the back bench.

      It's only a matter of time before this legislation goes through be it under Labor or Coalition.

      If Turnbull replaces Abbott in the second term, the Libs will push it through as well, providing it gets up in the senate.

      Remember a vote for the Coalition is a vote for Malcolm.

      Commenter
      Tim of Altona
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 7:42AM
    • I just do not see how Gay marriage wins anymore votes for Labor? All of the Gay marriage advocates are already voting for Labor or the Greens. In seats like Blaxland news that Labor supports Gay marriage will only hurt their chances and chip into their margins. The religious LEFT (not christians) oppose gay marriage and they would normally vote Labor, there is more opposition in the outer suburbs to Gay marriage then the inner city activists would care to admit. It is not a vote winner.

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:16AM
    • Opposed to the LNP which outright rejects any attempt to legalise same sex marriage.

      Commenter
      WRE
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:42AM
    • Cwitty- While I don't think it's a vote winner on the whole, I think there's less bigots in Australia now than you think. The US has a much higher percentage of religious fanatics than we do, and Obama was still willing and able to support marriage equality over there.

      I'm glad Rudd actually stood up for a principle instead of pandering to the lowest common denominator. It's a rare thing in Australian politics today and should be celebrated.

      This country has no official religion. Religions can decide who can be married within their religion. There is no justification for civil law treating gay couples differently to other couples, even if it is only in the name of what their union is called. The end.

      Commenter
      Arky
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 8:44AM
    • Arky - tots agree! (Finally) It should happen and no doubt it will. I've got $50 that says you will never see Jason Clare or Laurie Ferguson anywhere near an announcement on Gay marriage. In the seats they hold any mention of it will cost votes for whoever is promoting it. I dare any Labor supporter to get permission from Labor head office to campaign in those seats on 'Marriage equality"...will never happen. Opinions change from seat to seat

      Commenter
      Cwitty
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 9:01AM
    • So Rudd supports gay marriage, but who is going to marry him?.

      Commenter
      thepres
      Location
      Date and time
      August 12, 2013, 10:48AM
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