flag.blackened.net

infinity0 · Swivel-Hips Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 139

one point about an anarchist society which i haven't been able to answer is how it would defend itself militaristically against opponents.

however, reading through the various stuff on the recent Scientology vs. The Internet war, i think i see something relevant to this.

does Anonymous have the characteristics of an anarchist army?

there are no leaders, but things still get done (although how efficiently i don't know). basically, plans are made (by whoever wants to make them) and then broadcasted, and people choose to follow them as they wish.

(btw, I am *not* condoning all of the raids that Anonymous have done - i don't have enough information to make a judgement on this point. I just see their method of organisation interesting and relevant to anarchism.)

links if you don't know what i'm talking about:

http://partyvan.info/index.php/Anonymous
http://partyvan.info/index.php/Insurgency

I especially like the quote on the FBI page - "They protect your rights, by taking them away." lulz

information about Scientology vs. The Internet:

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/PROJECT_CHANOLOGY
http://partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology
_________________
http://www.gnu.org/ free software
In Capitalist America, Proprietary Software uses YOU!!!

MMMark · Swivel-Hips Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 238

Wed. 08/01/23
. post #211

http://partyvan.info/index.php/Anonymous
http://partyvan.info/index.php/Insurgency
and
http://partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology
all lead me to
http://www.ebaumsworld.com
for some reason (where there's a very nice video of a booby chick in a
bikini instructing the proper way to fold a shirt, but I digress). Anyone
else experiencing this, or is my ISP's DNS service fucked up again?

partyvan.info's IP address seems to be http://72.20.26.214, but typing
that into my browser's address bar results in a page informing me
"This IP is being shared among many domains.
To view the domain you are looking for, simply enter the domain name
in the location bar of your web browser."

I'd appreciate some feedback on this one.

|Y| · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:29 am Post subject:

Of course anonymity has its place, and it will be utilized. But there's a stark difference between doing it for virtue and doing it for "teh lulz."

One day these guys are going to be stripped of their anonymity, and the world can see them for what assholes they truly are.

It's the difference between skript kiddie and hacker.

P2P, piracy, is an almost entirely anonymous process. Even groups that "take credit" for their actions are anonymous.

edit: posting via Tor, since I can't steal internet here. =)

I do wish flag/infoshop would have an unspoken "no ips stored" policy, though.
_________________
I am a leader, but you will not follow me.

infinity0 · Swivel-Hips Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 139

actually |Y| a lot of their raids are against what they perceive to be assholes, eg. white supremacists, manipulative people, and of course the recent scientology war.

i daresay there are plenty of assholes in there, but actually i get the impression the majority of their activities are not initiatory-aggressive, rather, a reaction against something they perceive is wrong.

"for teh lulz" shouldn't be taken too literally. they also have the motto "for great justice", for example.

i can't really say any more but i just feel they should be defended; they're not all bad (far from it, i think).

MMMark, partyvan.info is back up from where i am, IP is 72.20.26.214
_________________
http://www.gnu.org/ free software
In Capitalist America, Proprietary Software uses YOU!!!

|Y| · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject:

I should agree that they do target assholes or those they percieve as evil or wrong, but there's still a contengent who go after the innocent because they think it's funny to harrass, for instance, a 13 year old who posts stupid shit.

But I was a bit quick in my response, you're right that in general they do attack, more often than not, those who one might consider evil.
_________________
I am a leader, but you will not follow me.

MMMark · Swivel-Hips Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 238

Thurs. 08/01/24 17:58 EST
. post #213

Picatta · Swivel-Hips Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4

Hello, I am the admin of the wiki (partyvan.info). First off, recent downtime has been due to several groups (who we think might be under CoS payroll), such as the regime and possibly m00. We were under DDoS and someone managed to RFI the server, causing downtime.

As far as the nature of anonymous, you can't simply define a 'nature'. 'Anonymous' isn't a person or a well-organized group--it is an idea. It is not native to the *chans, either. People are separated; whether it is race, nationality, or religion, there are various arbitrary dividers that keep people apart. With the advent of the internet, information was able to cross every geographical and socio-political boundary instantly, making such divisions utterly irrelevant. There is, however, one last major roadblock--the name.

People protect their names; they water down or change what they say in order to protect the sanctity of their names, and in-turn people pre-judge ideas and thoughts of others because of connotations with the name. By forcibly removing the name, people no longer worry about what others will think, they simply speak their mind, and each idea they bring forth is judged by itself, as simply an idea, and not for the name behind it.

Another thing happens, and that is people become more open to change. Because of anonymity, people are no longer worried about changing their views and being branded a 'hypocrite'--the insecurity behind so much bigotry is now gone, and people (who are now much more exposed to new ideas) begin to judge each idea individually, and not for how it will affect their name or the name behind the idea.

Imagine a dark room filled with thousands upon thousands of people--each one an individual, and each one carrying out one or more conversations, unafraid of what others will think. There is no doubt that each one is a free individual, but together it makes a kind of 'white noise'. Because of the size of the group, the ability to communicate freely, and the lack of insecurity, people begin to come to similar conclusions--not anything specific, but things that all people share become more important than any previous divisions (e.g. nationality), and so trends become visible in the group, as well as in the individual (who is influenced by the group). In effect, people's ideas begin to merge, and the individuals become more similar.

Now, "for the lulz" could be considered one trend in the group--people generally have a similar sense of humour, and so may be bound to specific events or causes because of it. That is not to say there are not any ulterior motives--remember that this isn't some single organism, this is a very large group of individuals, and each may have different reasons. It would be naive to say that it is all "for the lulz"; many raids such as Hal Turner and Scientology were most definitely ran by people who were genuinely fighting racism or for free speech, however there are many others who were not. One thing these people have in common with many others of the group (even not doing this raid), is that they derive enjoyment from it.

infinity0 · Swivel-Hips Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 139

hi! fancy seeing you here, lol.

i didn't expect there to be so much deep self-reflecting commentary from anon about anon. that was a good surprise.

i agree with what you say - it makes a lot of sense. it's full of hope, and i think i share that hope. it's interesting too to see this happening as the days go past, and watching this thing evolve.
_________________
http://www.gnu.org/ free software
In Capitalist America, Proprietary Software uses YOU!!!

K=x'uksami · Swivel-Hips Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 614 Location: AmCap

I dunno about them, myself. From what I have seen, they have some intriguing aspects, but homophobia, misogyny, and even racism seem remarkably common among them. They seem to me more like the Libertarians than anything, dressing up the privileges of white middle class men as freedom.
_________________
"Anarchy does not stop at the doorstep...You can't be an anarchist in public while engaging in domination in private."

infinity0 · Swivel-Hips Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 139

Anonymous contains all sorts of people. Of course they're not anarchists, ideologically.

But the way they're organised is very anarchistic. They just don't know it yet. :p
_________________
http://www.gnu.org/ free software
In Capitalist America, Proprietary Software uses YOU!!!

Picatta · Swivel-Hips Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 4

Tomas · Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject:

Sometimes trolls are necessary to expose the logical fallacies of aforementioned beliefs. With the Internet, some people are unable to discern satire or sarcasm.

It is common for Americans to immediately agree or disagree with a speaker or, in this case, a posting member and completely miss the tone of the post because their minds are too busy being offended.