Talk:The Bridge on the River Kwai

 

Commander

Putting up a poster pic of that jackass Holden instead of Guinness is really cruel. It's US chauvinism all over again. And that part of the story is apocryphal! Bogart said Holden was the supreme jerk; this seems to be a trait shared by many of his countrymen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.136.187.66 (talk) 23:40, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks like an inaccuracy in the entry: "Shears refuses, but then Warden drops a bombshell: the real Commander Shears was killed some years back". Actually if I recall the movie it is Shears that first admits his ruse to Warden (though Warden already knew). Shears first reveals how he took the real Commanders identity intitially in order to secrure better treatment for himself as a POW. He tells Warden the truth in hopes that it will him [Shear] from being recruited for the mission and having to go back going back. [no signature]

Correct. I just watched the film. "Shears" is the first to reveal he isn't an officer. As for William Holden being a "supreme jerk" -- this is hard to believe of a man who was respected for his professionalism, was not a part of the Hollywood in-crowd, and who was married to the same woman for 54 years. I would not consider Humphrey Bogart a jerk, either. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Kwai March

The web page says the march is sometimes called the River Kwai March.

I thought there was a River Kwai March, which is the march with a new counter melody added, ie the two aren't the same thing.

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As I've since found out - they AREN'T the same thing. The march in the film is an arrangement of Colonel Bogey written by Sir Malcolm Sargeant, and does indeed have a new counter-melody.

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The Wikipedia article on the Conel Bogey March says the following:

Arnold also wrote a march of his own for use in this movie, which is called "The River Kwai March". This piece has nothing to do with the Rickett/Alford march, but, due to the fame of the film, many people now incorrectly refer to the "Colonel Bogey March" as "The River Kwai March".

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Listen very carefully to the bird song during the introductory jungle footage and you will hear snatches of the famous march in the chirruping. No I'm not imagining it. A clever feat of sound montage by the engineers. But surely I'm not the first to notice this?

Btwied 22:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Azon?

The "Historical accuracy" section says that the bridge was destroyed with an AZON bomb, but the "AZON" article disagrees, indicating that it was destroyed with four conventional bombs by an AZON team. Which is correct?

What was the river's name?

The river is called "Mae" in the beginning of the article, but is referred to as "Kwae" in the Death Railroad article which links to this article. Which one is correct?

The article says that the bridge is on the Mae Klong and not the Kwai, since the name of river changes at the confluence of the Kwai Noi and the Kwai Yai. But this map shows that the bridge is upstream from the confluence, and thus that the "River Kwai" location is correct. Adam 10:02, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

The bridges were built over what was then called the Mae Klong, upstream of the confluence with the Kwai Noi. This part of the Mae Klong was renamed the Kwai Yai river in 1960. Below the confluence the combined river is still called the Mae Klong. JMcC 15:41, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Agree with that

I have read that the 1960 name change came about as a result of tourists requesting - after seeing the movie, no doubt - to see the "Bridge on the River Kwai". Never underestimate Thai business acumen. Johnmc 07:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

POV?

On the other hand, taking into account the past and present day situation of many who ignore the Geneva conventions[...]

Isn't the paragraph that starts with the sentence quoted above opinative rather than descriptive? It feels out of place in the body of this article, independent of the fact that we may agree with it.--81.42.165.32 00:11, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

The film added David Lean's jaundiced view of the Army...

The use of the adjective jaundiced is not appropriate, I think.

Final Words

What's with the 'final words' at the bottom of the article? Is this accurate? I doubt it.

If you mean the 'Last Line', I've no idea what that's meant to be about. I deleted it as apparent vandalism. Mark Grant 23:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Racism in the movie?

First I'd like to say that I think the Japanese army in the movie is depicted in a convincing way. What is more, Major Saito / Nicholson are shown to be very similar, they're sometimes both near insanity- thats the best theme in the movie. I quite liked the movie! But on the other hand... The movie is clearly on the side of the British army.

1) The Japanese army is shown as to be completely incapable of designing/constructing a bridge. By contrast, in reality they were very good at it and the allies underestimated their capabilities to a great extent. The idea of bringing "civilized techniqes" to the asian "japs" is a main theme of the movie and is not questioned at all. That is pure racism.

2) Furthermore, one central topic of the movie is the moral victory of the British battalion over the Japanese guards. Apart from that this seems to be a little bit unrealistic, it is very simple-minded. The moral victory lacks any ambiguity and just appeals to prejudices of moral superiority of the West over Asia.

--Jajaklar82 16:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I've read several accounts of the Thai-Burma railway, and I don't think I've ever heard The Bridge on the River Kwai being referred to in a favourable light. I do recall reading that majority of Japanese criticism concerns the portrayal of Japanese engineers as being incompetent, which ties in with your first point. It's probably why I've never actually seen the movie, and am not really inclined to, as I'm more interested in actual - rather than dramatized - accounts of the railway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johnmc (talk • contribs) 12:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

I don't think the Japanese portrayed here have any right to complain over this film. In the movie they were incompetent engineers, in reality they were brutal and unfeeling men who worked, starved and beat Prisoners of War to death with no sense of humanity or morality. This film certainly glosses over reality. But to say it is racist against the slave-drivers is frankly insulting.

Besides which the film isn't on the side of the British army, it is anti-war. It shows the futility and madness of war. The Japanese guards and the British prisoners worked together to create a bridge. Then commandos come along and blow it up, thereby meaning that three months of back-breaking labour was in vain.--EchetusXe 21:25, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

According to the Blu-ray supplements, the Japanese generally built not-very-sturdy bridges, as they were working quickly. However, it seems highly unlikely they'd have been foolish enough to lay the pilings in soft soil without a proper foundation, thus breaking the fundamental rule of bridge-building. As for the film's themes... Though it's obviously anti-war, Bridge is more like Dr. Strangelove in being an attack on human stupidity. The story is ultimately a study of what happens when two antagonists feel obliged to stand by principles they unquestioningly accept. Bridge is one of those very rare films that encourages discussions of ethics and morality. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:26, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:194ER57.jpg

Image:194ER57.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Updated rationale added to image article.Johnmc (talk) 07:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

When and what censored?

I note from recently watching the film that one word is (fairly clumsily) censored, being replaced by a splash (Sir Alec Guinness is speaking in a scene where the British officers are being punted across the river under the bridge). Presumably the removed word was some kind of racial slur. Was this done in post-production, or is it a later change for more recent censorship requirements? Grutness...wha? 00:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Plot summary is not "too detailed".

This is a film with an incredibly intricate plot, rivalling even the Star Wars films. A plot summary can't do it justice without taking up over a screen of text. Besides, it came in handy for me because at the end of the film I got the characters mixed up and who was who eluded me.76.75.118.234 (talk) 03:42, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree. How do we get rid of that tag — just dump it? — HarringtonSmith (talk) 17:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Slight change in title from book -- Why?

Does anyone know why the book title "bridge over the river" was changed for the film to "bridge on the river"? Hcunn (talk) 00:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

"On" is the common English-language usage. "Over" sounds clumsy. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Magnum P.I.

The movie version of this history is treated as factual through the character of Higgins in Magnum P.I.. Higgins spends time in early episodes building a model of the bridge in the movie and recounting tales of being a POW forced to work on the bridge. It's also played for comedy as several time Higgins' bridge model gets smashed. In later episodes the finished model is seen in Higgins' study/office. It could also be that Higgins is lying about it all and Magnum either doesn't know the real history or is just letting him get away with it. 66.232.94.33 (talk) 03:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

diegesis versus mimesis

I'm trying to figure out why the writer says the Kwai soundtrack is "diegetic". A motion picture is inherently mimetic -- unless we're seeing the story through one character's point of view (Amadeus), or there's narration (Sunset Blvd.). The relation of background music to this is unclear. Indeed, I'm not sure how one can draw a distinction between diegetic and mimetic music.

Bernard Herrmann said that music should make an emotional connection with the audience between what is happening on the screen and what the audience is experiencing (as opposed to simply Mickey Mousing the actions). I suppose the latter is diegetic (in almost the literal sense), but is the former mimetic? I can't figure it out.

In my Amazon review of Brokeback Mountain, I remark that Gustavo Santaolalla's score is probably the only score to win an Oscar for its non-existence. It's mostly "atmosphere", and hardly ever makes any comment on the emotions of the story. Well, Malcolm Arnold's Oscar-winning score for Bridge is similar, mostly atmosphere -- but on occasions when Nicholson is making decisions and giving orders, the score seems to be saying "This guy is nuts". This is unquestionably "diegetic" music, while the "atmospheric" music is probably mimetic.

Regardless, this section of the article needs rethinking, followed by removal or clarification. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 13:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Sequel?

The opening of this article refers to 'Return to the River Kwai' as a sequel to the movie, but the article for 'Return to the River Kwai' quite clearly states that it is not to be considered a sequel to 'Bridge on the River Kwai'. Carnydog (talk) 09:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)