Project:Village Pump

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Hello everybody! Here is the translation of some items in the Sidebar to Slovenian and I'd kindly ask that someone implements it.

*Get MediaWiki = Pridobi MediaWiki
*Get extensions = Pridobi razširitve
*Tech blog = Tehnični blog
*Contribute = Prispevaj
Support = Podpora
*FAQ = Pogosta vprašanja
*Technical manual = Tehnični priročnik
*Support desk = Forum za pomoč
*Communication = Stik z nami
Development = Razvoj
*Developer portal = Portal razvijalcev
*Code statistics = Statistika kode
Mediawiki.org
Translate content = Prevajaj vsebino
Village pump = Projektni klepet

The rest has been localized on translatewiki.net.

Thank you.

I don’t know if it affects the sidebar, but other translation-related things (e.g. {{uselang}}) would definitely also need that someone creates MediaWiki:lang/sl with the content sl.

 Done

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/106.196.23.48

Thanks! I've cleaned it up

Dears,

please help to clarify message T:110. It says:

Such references are particularly useful when citing sources, if different statements come from the same source.

What I am not able to understand is which condition the if must check.

I could understand the version": Such references are particularly useful if citing sources, different statements come from the same source.
or Such references are particularly useful when citing sources, there are different statements come from the same source.


Or am I wrong?

Which one do you pefere?

Regards

The English phrasing is a little awkward. I would write something like:

"Such references are particularly useful for citing sources when different statements come from the same source."

or

"Such references are particularly useful if different statements come from the same source"

or

"Such references are particularly useful if you want to cite the same source for different statements."

@Clump

I vote for....

"Such references are particularly useful if different statements come from the same source"

Here or in the 3rd case the "if" makes sense.

Thanks a lot for your kind feedback.

Regards

@Emu @Gymnicus @Wd-Ryan @Rdrg109

Recently at Wikidata we created items for all of the Wikimedia developer teams under Wikimedia Product (Q86030252) and Wikimedia Technology (Q27983251) and sitelinked them to their pages on mediawiki.org. We also started creating items the team members of these teams and linking them to their teams. The intention was that they could be used to display the team members in the Template:Wikimedia Team Info infobox template without requiring the text to be manually added and would also then be queryable. I particularly wanted to generate a tree of all the Wikimedia teams and their developers with this data documented.

However, documenting data about Wikimedia is currently in a grey area regarding its notability on Wikidata. This is demonstrated by the recent deletion request to delete some of the Wikimedia developer items.

What would probably make more sense is for mediawiki.org to have its own Wikibase instance so that these development teams and their developer teams could be properly documented where they most-closely belong. That way we don't have to worry about notability issues on Wikidata.

Could this be done?

I don’t have any experience in Meta stuff but as a layman, this would probably solve this conflict pretty well. Links to some more context here: :wikidata:User:Emu/Notability#Wikimedia-related_stuff

Any other ideas of what we could add to the Wikibase instance? I like the idea of it.

We could document anything related to the Mediawiki tech stack! Mediawiki documentation and data from Template:Extension could use the Wikibase!

This sounds great, count me in for extensively modeling everything about Mediawiki.

Tbh, im not really sure how mediawiki.org would benefit from this.

I am in favor of putting the data in Wikidata. If for some reason not all data can be in Wikidata, then much of the data already is in Wikidata and people will spontaneously add more anyway. I set up https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikimedia_Foundation to advance the discussion about how the Wikidata community can manage this content.

Just as a reminder, while WMF is very prominent in mediawiki, mediawiki has many different groups involved (as well as unaffiliated people) not just foundation employees.

Using my volunteer account here, because all I'm saying is what I've learned as a volunteer, or it's public already, and I'm only sharing my private view on this.

I think I understand why you're doing this. I respect that. Several years ago, I'd do something similar. There's a chance that the past me shares the motivation. Now, however, I'd strongly advise NOT to try to document all this. Let's not go too much down the org chart.

• Individual people come and go. They change teams and their roles, sometimes they work temporarily in different teams and roles, they join and leave the Foundation. Even if they contribute to public projects, not all of them are public figures.
• Similarly, teams are created and disbanded, but also over time, they evolve. Their scopes and names are changed. This is due to plans, strategies, leaders' will, team members' will. This isn't consistently documented on wiki.
  • Examples: Growth in 2014 and Growth in 2022 are two totally different groups with different stories. The same naming is like a coincidence. Mobile Web and Web - that's more like an evolution. Contributors in 2017 and Contributor Tools in 2022 are two different concepts, not even different teams (because the current Contributor Tools is a group of teams, not one team).
  • Example of d:Q27983256: I'm not sure if the former Contributors team at the WMF might have used the name Wikimedia Contributors. Did it ever, btw? It never was a "department" equal to the Product department. It never was the same as the Technology department either.

In practice, documenting the WMF departments and C-levels is doable. (Although don't ask me if VPs/directors reporting to the CEO when there's no C-level in their department count as fractional C-levels themselves). But documenting all teams and team members correctly and consistently - nah, that's unrealistic.

@tar We are talking about an organization that spends ~US$1 billion every five years. It is entirely reasonable for our community to ask basic questions about where this money goes, what teams we have, what products they develop.

We have this superpowered tool, Wikidata, which sorts knowledge with clarity and intelligence beyond human capacity. Data entry into it is routinely achievable with minimum wage untrained labor. It seems like Wikidata would solve so many problems where currently we are storing the information in the brains of some highly paid humans who have a conflict of interest in identifying, discussing, or addressing some of the challenges we face.

The problems you identify with Wikidata are valid, but for those very issues that you identify, the current path to accessing that information is that a human has to draw you into a conversation where you communicate it with your fingers typing or tongue speaking. Are you arguing that human to human communication is a sustainable, affordable, and reasonable alternative to this amazing database infrastructure which we designed seemingly for cases just like this? Or is your position that there generally is not knowledge here worth sharing in new ways?

@Bluerasberry I take your point but I don’t think it’s a good idea to use Wikidata to solve all of the world’s problems. From what I hear on DE.WP, the WMF is essentially accountable to nobody and about as transparent as a 10 inch concrete wall (slightly exaggerated for dramatic effect) but doesn’t that mean that there not only is no independent outside coverage but we also have problems with the “inside coverage”, too? And our data collection would mostly rely on sparse documentation and a lot of guesswork, combined with WD:BLP issues raised on every corner? As much as I value transparency, Wikidata is maybe not the right venue for this.

@emu you say Wikidata is not the venue @bawolff you say that mediawiki is not the venue. Fine, that hardly matters. The data could be in any Wikibase instance - here is the registry. https://wikibase-registry.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page

Data sharing of the Wikimedia Foundation merits more conversation and a serious response. If someone wants to argue that the data is too dangerous or misleading to share then that is a interesting claim worth exploring. This data does not seem expensive or challenging to share. There is also Wikimedia community demand for it, and even if not shared officially, the Wikimedia community is already haphazardly developing it on-Wikidata now. It would be nice for the WMF to share a complete dataset and give some cooperation about hosting it somewhere, because significantly more WMF transparency in data seems inevitable. Does anyone know of a senior person in WMF who has been or would be brave enough to publicly state opposition to converting the team, staff, and product information which is already public from prose into structured data?

No one is asking for new information; we all are here just asking for plain text posted into Wikidata or a Wikibase instance.

To clarify, I weakly think mediawiki is not the right place (By which i mean, I probably wouldn't be actively editing it, but don't let me be the one to stop you). My main objection is that keeping all this info up to date seems like a lot of work, and normal pages on mediawiki don't really benefit from this as far as i can see. I think ideally this would be kept in wikidata, although i guess that depends on what they think of that.

I do think we should keep in mind that these are real people, who do have a certain amount of rights to privacy. However, they are contributing to a public project, so i think keeping track of org charts is super reasonable and not a privacy violation.

I'd worry a bit you are over-indexing a tad on the "formal" org chart. Formal org charts often don't reflect the reality on the ground, in any organization. I think this applies to WMF more than most. The power structure of WMF is complicated with both formal position as well as informal influences. I guess there really isn't an alternative if you want to track things, but you can run into the trap of collecting the data that is (relatively) easy vs the things you actually want to know.

I suppose my hesitancy comes down to - I'm not sure what you aim to achieve with this project, and i don't think it will bring the transparency you desire.

> Does anyone know of a senior person in WMF who has been or would be brave enough to publicly state opposition to converting the team, staff, and product information which is already public from prose into structured data?

I highly doubt anyone at WMF really cares. If anything they would probably be happy about this so they could make sense of their own org chart.

Here's another page that could be easily generated with Wikibase data: Developers/Maintainers

Well, the Wikidata items all got deleted, so I think we should definitely consider this.

Well, the Wikidata items all got deleted, so I think we should definitely consider this.

Presumably there was a discussion that led to them being deleted? Can you link to that discussion so the wider community can participate in a single conversation about whether to track this in structured data, and if so, where?

@Jdforrester (WMF) it was linked in the original post, but here's the archive now: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2022/11/20#Wikimedia_developers

that statement applies only to media file, not to article

T:105 says:

But only signed-up users can upload files or rename pages.

I am not sure these statement is correct. For instance I am an autoconfirmed-user but I can't upload an article translated off-line, right? How an autoconfirmed-user can become a normal user or admin ? Is there a process, an exam to overcome? At this point I would be curious an interested. Regards

“Files” are not articles translated off-line, but (mainly media) files that are handled separately and don’t become integral parts of articles. Also, file uploads can be further restricted (as is the case on mediawiki.org, as files used here should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons), but an out-of-the-box wiki does allow uploads to all autoconfirmed users. (Please note that the documentation on mediawiki.org is mainly not about how this particular wiki works, but how a general/default wiki works.)

I think its fine to use <code> to denote things typed into config files. Feel free to update the page.

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

More languages • Please help translate to your language

Hello all,

During the 2022 Wikimedia Summit, the Movement Charter Drafting Committee (MCDC) presented the first outline of the Movement Charter, giving a glimpse on the direction of its future work, and the Charter itself. The MCDC then integrated the initial feedback collected during the Summit. Before proceeding with writing the Charter for the whole Movement, the MCDC wants to interact with community members and gather feedback on the drafts of the three sections: Preamble, Values & Principles, and Roles & Responsibilities (intentions statement). The Movement Charter drafts will be available on the Meta page here on November 14, 2022. Community wide consultation period on MC will take place from November 20 to December 18, 2022. Learn more about it here.

With the goal of ensuring that people are well informed to fully participate in the conversations and are empowered to contribute their perspective on the Movement Charter, three “Ask Me Anything about Movement Charter" sessions have been scheduled in different time zones. Everyone in the Wikimedia Movement is invited to attend these conversations. The aim is to learn about Movement Charter - its goal, purpose, why it matters, and how it impacts your community. MCDC members will attend these sessions to answer your questions and hear community feedback.

The “Ask Me Anything” sessions accommodate communities from different time zones. Only the presentation of the session is recorded and shared afterwards, no recording of conversations. Below is the list of planned events:

• Asia/Pacific: November 4, 2022 at 09:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Chinese and Japanese.
• Europe/MENA/Sub Saharan Africa: November 12, 2022 at 15:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Arabic, French and Russian.
• North and South America/ Western Europe: November 12, 2022 at 15:00 UTC (your local time). Interpretation is available in Spanish and Portuguese.

On the Meta page you will find more details; Zoom links will be shared 48 hours ahead of the call.

Call for Movement Charter Ambassadors

Individuals or groups from all communities who wish to help include and start conversations in their communities on the Movement Charter are encouraged to become Movement Charter Ambassadors (MC Ambassadors). MC Ambassadors will carry out their own activities and get financial support for enabling conversations in their own languages. Regional facilitators from the Movement Strategy and Governance team are available to support applicants with MC Ambassadors grantmaking. If you are interested please sign up here. Should you have specific questions, please reach out to the MSG team via email: strategy2030@wikimedia.org or on the MS forum.

We thank you for your time and participation.

On behalf of the Movement Charter Drafting Committee,

Hi there! I've noticed that the XTools on the Special:Contributions doesn't work for me: on XTools (from this wiki) it shows "The requested user does not exist" notice. I figured out that my username has a space which is replaced by "+" sign in the link. It is like this:

https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/www.mediawiki.org/Pacha+Tchernof

Other links on the footer of the Special:Contributions page have "_" symbol instead of "+". And if you replace first by second, you'll notice that the link above would work for you.

Could someone fix it please? I have no idea where it could be done and I'm doubting that I have permissions for that.

Thanks!

 Done by adding anchorencode

@Shirayuki, thank you so much! I am curios to ask: is there an easy way to find the wiki code (in a page/template) when there is no "Edit" or "View source" button on the top of the page?

@Pacha Tchernof I glanced at your other recent edits, and I think you might be looking for the Qqx trick. E.g. Special:contribs/...?uselang=qqx which shows at the very bottom of the page (sp-contributions-footer: Pacha Tchernof) which is the clue that points towards MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer. Does that answer it?

@Quiddity, thank you so much! This is the thing I was thinking about and kind of looking for the months! My evening was not planned to be so amazing as it turned out after you response. I am so grateful to you!

Double-encoding is quite hackish, and I’m not even sure if it would work in all cases (it could double-encode things). The correct solution is using {{urlencode:}} with a second WIKI parameter, like this: //xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/www.mediawiki.org/{{urlencode:{{{1|$1}}}|WIKI}}. (By the way, protocol-relative URLs are no longer really useful nowadays, I’d hardcode the https: in the URL. But this might be a matter of taste.)

Hey, @Tacsipacsi! Could you please elaborate your method and explain in a simple way? I didn't get where and how you suggest to use {{urlencode:}}. Thank you!

@Pacha Tchernof Shirayuki already fixed it here. :)

I got it. Thanks! :)

I noticed that in the table containing the parameter explanation the only string translatable is T:662.

It is right or some tags should be added?

Thanks

Regards

It's using the property names of the JSON definition, which shouldn't be translatable. Well, all except the T:662 which is the only one translatable... Either we remove T:662 from being translatable, or use {{int:}} notation to use the existing translations provided by the extension itself.

Thanks,

my point of view is remove T:662 from being translatable (only because I am a sponsor for uniformity), but I will accept your final decision.

Regards

Since nobody raised any concern about this, I've gone ahead and removed that text from being translatable.

Many thanks.

Last question: I've noticed at end of the article several subtitle with a dot, a final dot. Meanwhile, most of the previous subtitle are withouth.

Are there some specific reasons?

Regards

I don't know but headings shouldn't have those. I've removed them

I tried to create Map extensions with a comparison table about the software found in Category:Map extensions but I just get MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-wrongwiki, which currently says:

While I find the grumpy cat amusing, it's also quite unwelcoming.

Creating pages in the main space is limited for new users. Try creating it as a subpage of your user page and then moving it. Also, note that there's already a redirect page "Maps extension" so creating "Map extensions" might not be the best name---something like "Map extensions comparison" or "Comparison of map extensions" might be better.

I don't think their issue was with the validity of the message, but with its presentation/tone instead. Which I definitely can agree with — there's no need for the message to be so condescending and, well, grumpy.

Thanks :) Maybe the error message should say something like: Hey, editing the main namespace is limited for new users. And maybe don't show a grumpy cat to new users trying to improve the wiki.

I've updated MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-wrongwiki with those good suggestions.