Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Desktop version on mobile being too wide occasionally

Example screenshot

At Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 198#Global projects being too wide since yesterday, I reported how on some projects are being so wide that text there is illegible, that hadn't yet affected enwiki. Today, it finally did. But it is very picky on when it works. Whenever, I click "open in a new tab" *any* (diff|hist) link found at Watchlist, the resultant page is too wide with a 70-30 probability, but that goes away on refreshing. On the other hand, if I click "open in a new tab" from normal content pages, width remains normal the same thing happens. This issue is a new one. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 16:55, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

What kind of mobile device is this ? Screen dimensions, browser ? Also is your zoom set to 100% ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 18:21, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Android 11 smartphone using MS Edge. All zoom/accessibility settings at system default. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 19:40, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

To be clear, the issues are happening globally on all projects. On Vector legacy, things are extremely stretched (see screenshot above) and minimised. On vector-2022, there are long empty spaces on either side of the screen and the actual content is minimised. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 11:05, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Ayo, has this issue become WONTFIXed, or is there some phab out there? This thread is completely silent. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 22:32, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

On Safari on an iPad, every time a page loads it’s zoomed by approx 20% so too wide for the screen. Resetting the zoom to 100% (cmd-0) fixes it until you refresh or visit another page. I assume this is the same issue.—Northernhenge (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@CX Zoom and Northernhenge: are both of you seeing that your browser has a zoom level set? AFAIK, we can't force your browser to change a zoom level; have you tried resetting your browser to default settings and/or reinstalling your browser? Do you only have this problem with a specific browser? — xaosflux ^Talk 23:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: I haven't used other browsers to confirm about the issue, but I've used the same browser over multiple mobile devices. In all of them, the settings are all the same that I had been using before Thursday, when no issues occurred. When this same issue happened last month Jdlrobson fixed them. No other website shows these issues either. It is a Wikipedia only Thursday problem. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 05:55, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

By "Wikipedia only", I wanted to mean "WMF only" because every WMF project is now affected by this issue. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 05:57, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@CX Zoom thanks for the note, to confirm is your browser at 0% Zoom level when this is presenting? — xaosflux ^Talk 09:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: There are only two accessibility settings in this browser (Edge), both at system default. "Text scaling" at 100% & "Zoom on all websites — Enable to allow zoom in, even on websites that prevent this gesture" set "off". —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 09:29, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Have you tested this in a privacy mode CX ? wondering if reproduces there as well. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:36, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I am able to reproduce this issue in InPrivate window. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 10:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Example with Vector 2022

Added a Vector 2022 example image also. About to be 2 weeks now. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 06:27, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Northernhenge Yes, this is expected to some degree. The viewport is being made 20% wider upon load (it isn't actually loaded zoomed in, but if you are unfamiliar with what happens, it might be perceived like that I guess). What CX Zoom is seeing however is not that. It's much more than 20% and also the font-size is incredibly tiny, indicating much more than 20%. Its really quite strange —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:36, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks @TheDJ – it turns out my browser was set to 115% zoom and setting it to 100% fixed the problem. I’ve had it set the same way for a very long time so I don’t know what changed to make the wikipedia page start displaying too wide for the screen, but I can see it all now.--Northernhenge (talk) 16:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Subscribe (but I don't want to, and it's annoying)

I just noticed that on talk pages beside the section heading there is a place to click to subscribe. It's distracting when I'm looking to edit a section. I don't see it mentioned above.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:40, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing and uncheck "Enable topic subscription".  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  00:00, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:53, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

BTW, I also find it annoying to have it there all the time, but there are a few occasions when I do want to subscribe. Your can add the following to your common.js:

// Section subscribe
CurNSnum=mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber');
if (CurNSnum%2==1||CurNSnum==4)
	mw.util.addPortletLink(
	'p-tb',
	mw.config.get('wgScript')+'?title='+mw.config.get('wgPageName')+'&dtenable=1',
	'Section subscribe'
	);

A link labeled "Section subscribe" will appear in your toolbox for all pages in the Wikipedia: or any talk space. Click on it and the page will reload with the section subscribe links enabled.  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  00:49, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

That didn't seem to work.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:53, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

In what way doesn't it work? Does the "Section subscribe" link appear? (Which skin are you using? The link should be in the menu named "tools", "Tools", "More", or "Wiki tools", at the left or top of the page, depending on your skin.) If you get the link, what is the URL it links to, and what happens when you click on it?  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  00:31, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

I did something wrong when I was replying. I was referring to what I add to my common.js.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

I think one or both of us is misunderstanding what the other is saying. I still don't know what exactly is not working for you. Are the subscribe links still appearing for you in every talk page section? If you just want to disable them, all you need to do is disable it in Preferences and you don't need to add anything anywhere. If that's what's not working, maybe you didn't Save after unchecking the box. Go back to your preferences and verify that it's still unchecked. Only if you want to be able to subscribe "on demand" do you need to add the above code. I replaced the contents of my common.js with yours, and it worked perfectly for me.  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  18:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

I tried the other option with my preferences and that worked.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay. I see that you removed the code from your common.js, but your edit summary ("Didn't do what it said it would do") is incorrect. It does exactly what I said it would do. It just doesn't do what you misunderstood it was supposed to do.  MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM  21:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

You said it would only appear in the toolbox but until I changed the preferences, it didn't go away. But I did misunderstand and thought I was adding code that would do that unless I used the toolbox.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Infobox dog breed

I'm not clever at template editing. Today I added a {{{distribution}}} parameter to Template:Infobox dog breed as best I could, imitating the syntax in use there. It works – or at least it's working at Villano de Las Encartaciones – but when I enter edit mode in that page I get an error, "Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox dog breed with unknown parameter 'distribution'". If the parameter is unknown, why does it work? (and if it works, how can it be unknown?) I'm quite sure this is my mistake, but I can't find it (I've purged caches and so on, no luck). Any light, anyone? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:38, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Justlettersandnumbers: I have edited the template to add distribution to the list of known parameters when it invokes Module:Check for unknown parameters. DanCherek (talk) 19:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, DanCherek, I wouldn't have thought of that in a thousand years! But – for once – it does seem that this was not my fault, and that there's an error there that should probably be fixed (or at least documented). Thanks again, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:08, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

We have no method to automatically detect which parameters are known to a template. They must be manually added to {{#invoke:Check for unknown parameters}} in the template code. Well, we have Template:Parameters#check but it would have to be run each time a parameter is added and if you know that much, you can just add the parameter to the known parameters right away. Maybe we could get a bot to do some of it but it's complicated if the template calls a module. Maybe we should have a template with explanatory text to display in the documentation of templates which check for unknown parameters. It's often difficult to find now, for example from Template:Infobox dog breed#Tracking categories: Click Category:Pages using infobox dog breed with unknown parameters and then Module:Check for unknown parameters. The preview warning is for users of the template and assumes the template is coded correctly. It would probably confuse more than help if the warning tried to explain that it might just be the template which incorrectly thinks the parameter is unknown. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:30, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I have created {{Checks for unknown parameters}} and added it in a new section Template:Infobox dog breed#Unknown parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:00, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Tag: use of deprecated (unreliable) source

This WorldNetDaily edit causes Tag: use of deprecated (unreliable) source:

Google Search results for wnd.com redirect to a Malware Warning page with: "Warning — visiting this web site may harm your computer!".<ref>{{cite web |title=Malware Warning |url=https://www.google.com/interstitial?url=https://www.wnd.com/ |website=www.google.com |access-date=1 September 2022}}</ref>

0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 13:39, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

@0mtwb9gd5wx yes, you tripped Special:AbuseFilter/869; it tags any page that uses certain external links, including "wnd". It is possible there are appropriate uses, which is why it only tags for review and doesn't stop the edit. This is the expected behavior. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:17, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: WorldNetDaily has strange unreadable reference organization, needing attention beyond my skillset. Maybe some categories and hatnotes? 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 04:18, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Organisation controlled laptop - scripts no longer working

Hey, I've just got a new laptop, using google chrome. It's controlled by my employer, so, for example, I can't share location, or install extensions). My wikipedia scripts (auto ed, Move, page size, refill 2) are not visible/not working. I've checked site permissions (chrome::/settings/content/siteDetails) on my desktop pc, which where scripts are working, but they don't differ from those on my laptop. Anyone any idea on a setting somewhere I could look at? Bogger (talk) 08:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Sounds like JavaScript is disabled in your browser. Maybe check browser addons and see if there's an extension that is turning them off, then try reconfiguring or disabling the extension. Also visit https://www.whatismybrowser.com/detect/is-javascript-enabled to confirm my JavaScript theory. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Database dump is overdue

Resolved

The full dump of en.wp articles is usually available by ~10.00 UTC on the day after the WP:Database download begins. So I expected that on https://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20220901/, the file enwiki-20220901-pages-articles-multistream.xml.bz2 would have been available over 5 hours ago.

Does anyone know what has happened?

Is the process stalled? Did it have a late start? Has some big extra task been added to the bot/tool which does the processing? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: the current status is available on the main dumps page, which says it's in progress, but it's not super easy to see if it's stalled. I would suggest asking on the xmldatadumps-l mailing list. That's also where changes to the dump process are announced (nothing except for the new Russian mirror). Legoktm (talk) 15:12, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, @Legoktm. I'm wary signing up to yet another channel, but if it's still incomplete in the morning, I will go ask there.

For the last six months or so, the timing has been consistent, so I schedule my day around a download in the morning, and after uncompression I have time to do the first scans and start a few big batch jobs before bedtime. But I guess it will all come right in the end. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:21, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Resolved: The dump became available about ten minutes ago, and is downloading nicely. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wikilink overlined (?!)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T317135

Usernames get overlined when hovered

Something strange is going on for me here. The mentioned usernames get overlined instead of underlined when hovered. Screenshot for example. First time ever I encounter something like this. Anyone has any idea what's going on? - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:57, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Klein Muçi: Odd. What skin are you using? Does this still happen when you're logged out? Sam Walton (talk) 15:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Samwalton9, tried it in incognito (logged out) and the same behavior continued. I'm using the Vector legacy one. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Klein Muçi: Which browser and version? Sam Walton (talk) 15:09, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, logged out? Is this happening on every page, or only a specific page? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:12, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Xaosflux, @Samwalton9, Google Chrome, Ver. 105.0.5195.54 (just updated). Can't tell with certainty if it is also happening in other places as well. I vaguely remember that it was happening in some other places too before reporting but without me blindly hovering everywhere I can't say for sure. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:18, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Is it happening on non-wikipedia pages, like search engine results? Is it happening on general wikilinks, or only usernames? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:19, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Can you try to start chrome with --disable-extensions and see if it changes? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:21, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Xaosflux, disabled all extensions, still happens. On that section there, which is all that I've tried currently, it happens only with "usernames". But strangely enough it doesn't happen on signatures. It only happens with mentioned usernames, if that makes sense. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:29, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Klein Muçi is this only happening when you are using that personal userscript? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Xaosflux, I initially reported this as a problem to the userscript's developer but it turns out it wasn't caused by it. I disabled that userscript and even tried it in safe mode but the behavior is still unchanged. — Klein Muçi (talk) 15:19, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux I can confirm that this is happening to me as well, as a logged out IP editor. At this mfd discussion hovering over the "G5" link causes the underline to appear over the link. Using chrome version 105.0.5195.53 on windows 10, no browser extensions in use. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 17:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

163.1.15.238, for me as well in there. Not only for the G5 link but for the Draft:Adam Harry one too.— Klein Muçi (talk) 17:12, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Do all the other links on the page work normally? — xaosflux ^Talk 17:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux I've double checked, the answer is no, the second link to the deleted draft (the one with all the stuff in brackets after it) also has the underline above it. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 17:15, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux It appears that the upside down underline happens when a link directly follows some element that creates a list (a bullet point or a colon)? I get the same upside down behaviour looking at the pings without the leading @ character in the discussion above. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 17:19, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux It also seems to be related to signatures somehow. If I go to the sandbox and preview

*[[test]]

The link displays properly, if I preview

*[[test]] ~~~~

The underline appears over the text. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 17:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I was able to replicate this, but only in Chrome (and it was not present in Chrome v104.0.5112.102, but is in v105.0.5195.102). Seems to be related to certain elements; possibly only impacting the "first dd in a dl". — xaosflux ^Talk 17:40, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Is present on multiple skins here (vector-2022, vector, monobook at least) -- wonder if this is a Chrome bug. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

It may be an improvement for accessibility purposes; Firefox has changed the default behavior of a:focus relatively recently. [1] (large page) is the full series of changes in the two versions; hover shows up over 110 times with ctrl+F. I didn't see anything in the first couple dozen. In Firefox, I don't have the issue that the above users do. Izno (talk) 17:56, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Xaosflux, Klein Muçi, 163.1.15.238, can you open the browser console and enter mw.util.addCSS('span[data-mw-comment-start]{top:unset}') ? Does that change anything? — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:01, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I can reproduce this. It is caused by invisible markers added by DiscussionTools, and it seems to be a browser bug in the latest version of Chrome (I am using Chromium 105). DiscussionTools adds markers (<span data-mw-comment-start ...>) at the beginning of each comment, placed slightly higher than the comment text, so that following a link like this will jump slightly above the comment (and highlight it). We also use these links in notifications if you're subscribed to a topic. Apparently the underline is now placed as if the whole text was in line with that invisible marker, instead of where the text really appears. Matma Rex talk 20:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Matma Rex, so it's not really an overline, no? It's just an underline of an invisible element. — Klein Muçi (talk) 20:35, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes! Matma Rex talk 20:37, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

After taking a closer look, I think this is caused by the bug fix for https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1008951. The CSS spec requires that text decorations like the underline "must use a single thickness and position on each line for the decorations deriving from a single decorating box" [2] (see the picture in that link). The intent is for text like "1^st" to have a single underline under the whole thing, rather than two small underlines under "1" and "^st". But I think the Chrome team might have overdone it… it seems that Firefox is able to render a single underline under that text, but it doesn't have the bug you're reporting here. Matma Rex talk 20:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I filed a bug: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1359501 Matma Rex talk 21:04, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Text overline?

Starting in the last couple of days, I've been seeing bits of text that are mysteriously overlined. I think they've all been <a> tags. If I look at the page in an incognito window (Chrome, Vector, Mac), the overline isn't there initially, but when I hover over the linked text, the overline appears. Any idea what's going on? It's the wrong phase of the week for WP:THURSDAY. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:51, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@RoySmith: It's apparently a Chromium bug. See above. Issue is being tracked upstream, and internally at phab:T317135. — MusikAnimal ^talk 17:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Can "Your edit was published" be disabled?

Resolved

When a page is saved, a green text notification appears in the top of the window right saying "Your edit was published". I can see how this is helpful for newbies, but I find it annoying. It tells me nothing I don't already know, and sometimes I can just ignore it ... but many other times it is disruptive.

My workflow often involves running a script after an edit, and those script are on a drop-down at the top right of the screen. When the menu drops down it is partially obscured by the notice, so I have to wait a few seconds for the notice to disappear.

When I am working fast on a long series of edits, this gets very annoying. Is there any way to disable these "Your edit was published" notifications? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: you can put this code:

.postedit{display: none;}

In your Special:MyPage/common.css file. It should hide the display of that popup. (It may also hide some other post-edit things). — xaosflux ^Talk 17:18, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Many thanks, @Xaosflux. That does it nicely. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:55, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

IP somehow getting around TPA disabling

Resolved

 – TPA block was not present. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:30, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello! Earlier today, DatGuy disabled the TPA of the IP 208.108.121.21. Then, just a few minutes ago, the IP somehow adds a message to their talk page, even though they shouldn't be able to due to the TPA being disabled (and yes I made sure it wasn't a different IP on the same range). Anyone know how the hell they did this? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 18:19, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Looks like DatGuy didn't actually disable talk page access. Forgot to check a box, I imagine. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:26, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf this block, Special:Redirect/logid/135959072, does not have TPA set. Are you referring to a different block? — xaosflux ^Talk 18:27, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: I think per what FLoquenbeam they forgot to actually disabled TPA. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 18:28, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

"Insert links" - Dabsolver

There is a new(ish) tool called "insert links" that has started appearing whenever I enter a wiki link to a disambiguation page (similar to WP:Dabsolver), but built in. I've found this useful, but not as useful as it could be. Is it in finished state or still under development? Where does one find the specifications and discussion of this tool? Furius (talk) 20:34, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

See meta:Community Wishlist Survey 2021/Warn when linking to disambiguation pages and phab:T285508. I don't think it's still being worked on. Nardog (talk) 21:06, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Labs down

Resolved

 – An outage of some of the wmcloud/wmflabs services which was resolved by performing some restarts —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:17, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T316975

https://petscan.wmflabs.org/ doesn't load, and nor does https://wmflabs.org/

Both sites respond to pings, but HTTP requests time out.

I have tried from multiple browsers on multiple devices, and used my VPN to try via Germany and via the USA.

Yet https://www.wikimediastatus.net/ says "All Systems Operational".

So another work schedule is thrown out. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:16, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Probably related, but I don't know the correct term for the info read-out at the top of any page that tells you when it was created and by whom. Or the info on your own user space that tells you how many people are watching your page. Those seem to be down, with just a teeny little moving dot that looks like it's trying to load the info. — Maile (talk) 10:31, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

@Maile66, that's the XTools gadget. MediaWiki:Gadget-XTools-ArticleInfo. It's a little gadget that gets data from the website https://xtools.wmflabs.org/. Hope that helps :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:49, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

"All Systems Operational" just a note, wmflabs (repeat labs....) is not generally considered to be part of production. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

@TheDJ, "labs" is the name which WMF uses for the site that hosts the tools which editors rely on to build and maintain Wikipedia.

Its predecessor was a WikiGermany-hosted site called "toolserver", a name which better described the actual purpose of the site. I had not considered before that the name of wmflabs would indicate a downgraded priority for it, but you may be right that the "labs" name reflects a low priority for tools. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I mean technically it's all production, but wmcloud and wmflabs have a considerable different architecture that is much less redundant, and FAR fewer people assigned to it, and has very much lower SLA guarantees than wikipedia.org, and it's sister wiki projects do. So while wikipedia going down creates immediate alarmbells everywhere, cloud going down will require a bit more time. Also. Its fixed now. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, @TheDJ, it's now fixed. Phew.

But the low priority for availability of tools is further evidence of WMF having a poor attitude towards the volunteers who actually maintain the site's content. WMF is no longer poor, and the resources needed to keep the tools at a high SLA would be a trivial drop in WMF's budget. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:31, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: While I agree with your general point (less resources are allocated for tools infrastructure than they merit/deserve), that wasn't the issue in this case. A server went down, which happens from time to time, but something went wrong with the monitoring so the staff/volunteers who do maintain it weren't alerted to it being down. Once TheDJ reported it, I escalated it and Taavi rebooted the server. Legoktm (talk) 12:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation, @Legoktm ... but it still seems to me to be problematic that the monitoring processes are not more robust. That looks from here like a sign of low prioritisation. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:18, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Well, airplanes crash out of the sky regularly as well. Also not supposed to happen and very robust systems. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:03, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Actually, a tiny proportion of air flights involve a plane falling out of the sky. The fatal crash ratio was calculated in 207 by the US's NTSB as 1.19 fatalities for every 100,000 hours of flight.

By contrast, https://petscan.wmflabs.org/ is unavailable or non-functional for several hours on most days.

So not a great comparison. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

While petscan (developed and run by a volunteer) might be down several times a day, Wmcloud and toolforge themselves are considerably more stable than that. My point was, everything has stability that is imperfect yet relative to its importance and cost. Should this monitoring be improved ? Yes. But was this incident unacceptable ? I really don’t think so. Honestly I’m more concerned about the fact that we run all of wmcloud and toolforge in a single datacenter. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:54, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: No, we've been trying to not call things 'labs' since 2017 due to the 'labs labs labs' problem it created. Taavi (talk!) 11:35, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

But it's still https://petscan.wmflabs.org/ BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

The wmflabs.org domain is deprecated in favor of the new wmcloud.org domain. The new domain also explicitly drops the "F" so it's just "Wikimedia Cloud", something for the community and movement as a whole, rather than just "WMF".

I can't find the announcement offhand, but each project maintainer needs to migrate their project over to the new domain. The Petscan maintainer hasn't yet. Legoktm (talk) 12:11, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

here's the announcement in question. I was only able to find it because of an extended essay about Wikipedia written by a good friend of mine. Graham87 17:01, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Archive 199 has some source code error which munged half the archived discussions

The most recent Archive 199 as some source code error so that starting half way down the page all the discussions appear as red source code. -- M.boli (talk) 19:23, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

fixed by Trappist the monk. Graham87 06:58, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Convert column of US state abbreviations to full names

This column of state abbreviations below was copied from some newly updated tables here:

• United States drug overdose death rates and totals over time.
• User:Timeshifter/Sandbox179.

Scroll down to the state by state tables. I want to quickly convert the column below to full names. Then I will paste the full-name column back into the tables.

STATE

AK

AL

AR

AZ

CA

CO

CT

DE

FL

GA

HI

IA

ID

IL

IN

KS

KY

LA

MA

MD

ME

MI

MN

MO

MS

MT

NC

ND

NE

NH

NJ

NM

NV

NY

OH

OK

OR

PA

RI

SC

SD

TN

TX

UT

VA

VT

WA

WI

WV

WY

--Timeshifter (talk) 07:52, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

In the time I could write a script, I can probably just type this out.

STATE

Alaska

Alabama

Arkansas

Arizona

California

Colorado

Connecticut

Delaware

Florida

Georgia

Hawaii

Iowa

Idaho

Illinois

Indiana

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Massachusetts

Maryland

Maine

Michigan

Minnesota

Missouri

Mississippi

Montana

North Carolina

North Dakota

Nebraska

New Hampshire

New Jersey

New Mexico

Nevada

New York

Ohio

Oklahoma

Oregon

Pennsylvania

Rhode Island

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Virginia

Vermont

Washington

Wisconsin

West Virginia

Wyoming

Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Novem Linguae - It helps for this table, but I see this problem regularly, and sorting the state names correctly is not always easy. LibreOffice Calc puts the pivot table in alphabetical order of those 2-letter abbreviations. But that is not the same order as the full state names. So the previous time I updated the tables I had to manually move the rows around in the Visual Editor. Then I could paste just the data (all at once) next to the column of full state names. All of this is time consuming. It is easy to make mistakes and confuse which state names go with which abbreviation. So a double check is necessary, or random check by row number comparison.

So a script would save a lot of time because it would not make mistakes, and no row rearranging is necessary.

• List of states and territories of the United States
• Template:Static row numbers

Sort column in the right-most table below to put in alphabetical order. Note the problem it causes. Scroll down the table to see the changes it makes.

STATE

AK

AL

AR

AZ

CA

CO

CT

DE

FL

GA

HI

IA

ID

IL

IN

KS

KY

LA

MA

MD

ME

MI

MN

MO

MS

MT

NC

ND

NE

NH

NJ

NM

NV

NY

OH

OK

OR

PA

RI

SC

SD

TN

TX

UT

VA

VT

WA

WI

WV

WY

STATE

Alaska

Alabama

Arkansas

Arizona

California

Colorado

Connecticut

Delaware

Florida

Georgia

Hawaii

Iowa

Idaho

Illinois

Indiana

Kansas

Kentucky

Louisiana

Massachusetts

Maryland

Maine

Michigan

Minnesota

Missouri

Mississippi

Montana

North Carolina

North Dakota

Nebraska

New Hampshire

New Jersey

New Mexico

Nevada

New York

Ohio

Oklahoma

Oregon

Pennsylvania

Rhode Island

South Carolina

South Dakota

Tennessee

Texas

Utah

Virginia

Vermont

Washington

Wisconsin

West Virginia

Wyoming

STATE
Alaska
Alabama
Arkansas
Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Iowa
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Maryland
Maine
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Mississippi
Montana
North Carolina
North Dakota
Nebraska
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
Nevada
New York
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Vermont
Washington
Wisconsin
West Virginia
Wyoming

If you write a script I will link to it from Help:Table. I have done a lot of editing there. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Sounds like you want someone to write a user script that detects this kind of table and gives you a button to press to convert it? Might want to repost this at WP:US/R. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:03, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Novem Linguae - Yes. Or just a separated column. That might be an easier script. Thanks for the link. Can you create a script for this? --Timeshifter (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Probably not this month. It's busy season at my day job. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:07, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Novem Linguae - OK. I made a request at WP:US/R (Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests). --Timeshifter (talk) 21:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

How to search just the technical village pump archives?

I vaguely remember this being an option before at the top of the technical village pump. Can it be returned? Then I can choose whether to search all the village pump archives or just the technical archives.

I tried searching for something today, and tired of wading thru all the non-technical archive results.

Can someone give me the URL I need to do this? At least I can bookmark it. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Something like this CirrusSearch should work: intitle:"Village pump (technical)/Archive" test. As for adding it back to the header, I think that's a good idea if someone wants to take the time to code it. –Novem Linguae (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

It shouldn't make much difference for "Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive", but in general there's a more specific way that'll get less false positives - prefix:. Can also be put separately in the query string, like so. —Cryptic 08:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Novem Linguae and Cryptic - So to summarize:

Good:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=intitle%3A%22Village+pump+%28technical%29%2FArchive%22+test&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns4=1

Better:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=1&prefix=Wikipedia%3AVillage+pump+%28technical%29%2FArchive&ns4=1&search=Test

From Template:Village pump page header is this:

Change prefix and searchbuttonlabel to get this

That can be added to the top of this page to get this:

--Timeshifter (talk) 14:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done. Looks good to me. I went ahead and implemented this at Template:Village pump page header. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Novem Linguae - Thanks! Good job: prefix=Wikipedia:{{BASEPAGENAME}}

See diff. And this diff too. Last one allows searching of current page too, I believe, and not just archives. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:57, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

• Could the same be done for the Reference Desks please? DuncanHill (talk) 20:35, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
  • DuncanHill - Pinging: Novem Linguae and Cryptic. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

  @DuncanHill. Hey there. I spot checked WP:RD and WP:HD and they both have archive search boxes. What changes did you have in mind? –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:01, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

  Wikipedia:Help desk and Wikipedia:Reference desk both have the same problem. When I enter a search term ("abbreviations"), the suggestions cover the search button. I had to use the enter key on my keyboard. And it did not search for what I wanted. It only allowed me to search for the first term in the suggestion list. Problem would be solved by putting the search form and button on one line instead of 2. Suggestions would no longer cover the search button. I discovered later that I could click outside of it all to get rid of the suggestions, but that is not intuitive. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:14, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

  Timeshifter, fixed the suggestions cover the search button issue: Special:Diff/1108736727. —⁠andrybak (talk) 00:44, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  Andrybak - Thanks, but that only works after the search box and button are not in the sidebar. They need to be in the introduction section that uses the full width of the page. At least on this monitor. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  Andrybak. Moved search out of right sidebar: Wikipedia:Reference desk. Search box and search label are now on one line.

  I or others need to work on Wikipedia:Help desk. I can't figure out how the search boxes get on that page. I don't see it in the source editor. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Novem Linguae: I mean at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities be able to search only the Humanities archives, at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science search just the Science arhchives, etc. Like searching just Technical at the Village Pumps, not all the archives. DuncanHill (talk) 21:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

  Pinging for more help: andrybak --Timeshifter (talk) 00:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  Because of how Reference Desk's archives are structured: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/<subject>/... instead of Wikipedia:Reference desk/<subject>/Archives/..., it is impossible to make a search that covers both the archives and the live page (as search at the top of village pumps does). DuncanHill, done: Special:Diff/1108736245. Documentation on how inputboxes work is at mw:Extension:InputBox. —⁠andrybak (talk) 00:42, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  Andrybak. Thanks! See Special:Diff/1108768023. Now the search box and search label is on one line. Search suggestions do not block the search button on my monitor. I also greatly increase my text size in my browser. That makes the search box and search label even wider. They now barely fit on one line in my 21 inch monitor. See:

  Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/header/howtoask#Search box and search label need to be on one line. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:01, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Andrybak: Thank you - that will be very useful to me and I hope to many others. DuncanHill (talk) 13:39, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Article History not up-to-date when logged out

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T317064

Greetings, so I just noted something weird on the article 2022 Saskatchewan stabbings: When I am logged out, it only shows me the article history up until the edit by Love of Covey on 03:20 (so this diff is the last), while the article itself shows everything as expected, including the content from e.g. my edits that happened later. I at first thought the page had some sort of WP:PCPP, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And when I'm logged in, it shows me the whole history. Is such behaviour to be expect for some reason, or is it a technical hiccup? –LordPickleII (talk) 11:47, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Same for me, but when logged out I see another revision to be the most recent one Special:Diff/(Redacted) on 4 Sept, 23:35 UTC. Although the mobile version of page history is perfectly up to date, even when logged out. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 12:48, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I think that article should've been semi-protected by now due to vandalism and edit warring. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 12:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I saw the same behaviour, but the history updated on my end when I null-edited the page. No idea what that's about. Rummskartoffel 16:08, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Someone else reported this elsewhere as well, I filed a bug as phab:T317064 with a possible cause. Legoktm (talk) 21:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Legoktm: Thank you! –LordPickleII (talk) 10:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

History links from my watchlist (right-click, Open Link in New Private Window) seem to be current. They have an additional curid parameter, for example, [3] versus [4]. Flatscan (talk) 04:46, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@Flatscan: watchlist links include a &curid= parameter to make sure the link takes you to the right page even if it's been renamed in the meantime. And the inclusion of that &curid= parameter means that caching of the history page is bypassed, so it'll always be up to date. Legoktm (talk) 14:43, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Vector 2022 unusable on iOS 12

Hi all, I tried changing my skin to Vector 2022 some weeks ago to see if I could live with it. (No I can't, not without the viewport being set to make it responsive, but that's another issue.) I've discovered a weird issue on iOS 12 that I can't replicate on iOS 15. (iPad Air original vs. Air 2.)

Tap targets for the tabs (Edit | Talk ... View History ...) are misaligned with the visual areas. I have to be fully zoomed out and tap around the vicinity three to five times to activate a tab. Or sometimes I just can't. Problem persists in safemode and when logged out.

Has as anyone observed this on other platforms? On a brief look, a very old iPad with iOS 9 appears to display the same symptoms. Is it something to do with the wonky ES6 detection?

. ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 20:43, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Pelagic: At #Desktop version on mobile being too wide occasionally section above, there are two (unrelated) issues reported, one by me and another by Northernhenge. Does one of them explain the issues you are facing? —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 06:03, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Neither of them probably explain what issue you are facing. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 06:15, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Range of Hebrew letters?

I can regex a range of Greek Letters without a problem. for example insource:/\('''[Α-Ω]+'''/ however, I am unable to figure out how to do the equivalent for Hebrew. None of the possibilities seem to work, replacing the A with an א and Z with ת nor doing it the other way around (so that the window thinks it is a single string reading RTL, nor even flipping the [ and ] seem to work, could someone please help me figure out the way to do a search for a parentheses, three quotes and a string of Hebrew letters?Naraht (talk) 20:49, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Naraht The obvious way has worked for me: insource:/\('''[א-ת]+'''/ [5]. You have to be careful while typing, since the mixed directionality of the text causes the characters to display in different visual order than the logical order (and may also display in different order in different text editors, and may also cause parentheses and brackets to flip around). You can see it if you paste it into an editable text field, place the cursor at the beginning, then hold Shift and press right arrow key to select the text letter by letter. You also have to be careful not to copy-paste invisible directionality marks, which can mess up regex ranges like this. They will be highlighted in red if you enable syntax highlighting in the wikitext editor, or you can notice them using the Shift-arrows method and noticing when an arrow press doesn't seem to advance forward. The characters are, in order:

[

א

-

ת

]

Matma Rex talk 22:16, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

You can also encode the Hebrew characters using their Unicode values (from the chart at Hebrew (Unicode block)) to avoid directionality issues: insource:/\('''[\u05D0-\u05EA]+'''/ [6] Matma Rex talk 22:25, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Matma Rex Thank you for this. I'm not sure what was being picked up.Naraht (talk) 15:00, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Searching for a string *outside* a reference?

Any suggestions for searching for a string only outside of a reference?Naraht (talk) 20:51, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

@Naraht: There is a 'Find & Replace' regular expression function available in AWB in; Options → Normal settings → Ignore templates, refs....(A tickbox selection) Neils51 (talk)

Tech News: 2022-36

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 6 September. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 7 September. It will be on all wikis from 8 September (calendar).
• Some wikis will be in read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of their main database. It will be performed on 6 September at 07:00 UTC (targeted wikis) and on 8 September at 7:00 UTC (targeted wikis).
• On Special pages that only have one tab, the tab-bar's row will be hidden in the Vector-2022 skin to save space. The row will still show if Gadgets use it. Gadgets that currently append directly to the CSS id of #p-namespaces should be updated to use the mw.util.addPortletLink function instead. Gadgets that style this id should consider also targeting #p-associated-pages, the new id for this row. Examples are available. [7][8]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

23:19, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the last item, maybe I am the only one who command-clicks to duplicate a page in a new tab (e.g. to compare a page that I am actively fixing, or have sorted, to the page as it is currently rendered). Quick and easy. Removing this tab will break this workflow. If I am the only one who does this, then I'll find a workaround (like continuing to use legacy Vector for a variety of reasons). If you have a use case that this change would break, the relevant phab ticket appears to be T313409. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:38, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I do that a lot, also at special pages where your example doesn't apply, e.g. at Special:Search to compare searches, or Special:ExpandTemplates to compare the output of similar code. https://xkcd.com/1172/ ("Workflow"). PrimeHunter (talk) 00:25, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Ctrl+L and then Alt+Enter duplicates the current tab on many web browsers. Enterprisey (talk!) 00:50, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Radio button goes to the side of the map instead of label

I was reading 2022 Saskatchewan stabbings and noticed that the first radio button for the multi-level map switcher is on the left of the map, instead of label 1. fireattack (talk) 03:19, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I added |float=center to the template that generates the map and it looks like that fixed the issue. – BrandonXLF (talk) 04:59, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you!--fireattack (talk) 13:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Unify RFC links?

When reading the MIME article I noticed there are two methods to link to RFC pages used there:

one is used in inline ref-s and it uses plain external links (see section MIME#References or a specific example in MIME#signed):

[https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1847#section-2.1 RFC 1847, Section 2.1]

the other one is used in the RFC list at the end of the article (MIME#RFC documentation) and it is based on the {{IETF RFC}} template:

{{IETF RFC|1847|link=no}}, ''Security Multiparts for MIME: Multipart/Signed and Multipart/Encrypted''

They seem both valid and working correctly, but they produce links to different domains: tools.ietf.org and datatracker.ietf.org, respectively. This results in a quite strange effect that, once you visit an external page with a specific RFC, one link becomes re-colored as 'visited' and the other one does not.

Should the links be unified to point at the same domain? --CiaPan (talk) 13:29, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Changing language name

Hello. I would like to change the language name in {{Expand Slovene}} to read 'Slovene' instead of 'Slovenian'. That is to ensure consistency with the preferred language name as per Slovene language. Where can this be edited? --TadejM ^{my talk} 21:48, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

{{Expand Slovene}} calls {{expand language}} which uses {{#language:sl|en}} to get the language name associated with sl → Slovenian. To change that, you have to change the WikiMedia source.

Alternately, you can change {{expand language}} to use something like:

{{lang|fn=name_from_tag|{{{langcode|}}}}}

so, when {{{langcode|}}} holds sl the template returns:

{{lang|fn=name_from_tag|sl}} → Slovene

You should be mindful, however, because changing MediaWiki or {{expand language}} to support a change for one language tag may cause unexpected problems with categories for other unrelated language tags. You break it, you fix it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:13, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. --TadejM ^{my talk} 22:25, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

As Trappist mentions, {{#language:{{{langcode|}}}|en}} in Template:Expand language appears to be the relevant line. To change that would require changing either that line, or changing wherever mw:Extension:CLDR gets its data from. At first glance, might not be worth it, as this might create a maintainability headache for someone in the future. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:26, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. I am not going to modify {{expand language}}. It will be best to change the language name in the MediaWiki source. I will think about this. MediaWiki uses ISO language names[9] and ISO 639 cites Slovenian as the standard language name.[10] --TadejM ^{my talk} 22:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Table weirdness

This post is about the first table at Evil Dead#Main cast and characters. I was reading the article and noticed that the column giving the year of release is displaying incorrectly, with the year displaying one box left of where it should. So I went into visual editor to fix it, and within visual editor, it displays correctly. Any ideas on what is happening here?

I am using MacOS 11.6.5 and Chrome 105.0.5195.52.

Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:43, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I looked at it with two browsers on a similar Mac OS and didn't see any problems. A screenshot may help. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:58, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Imgur screenshot. Can you give me a hint as to what is displaying incorrectly? At first glance this looks OK to me. Chrome, Windows 10. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:01, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

A table in Evil Dead as viewed while reading article

A table in Evil Dead as viewed in Visual Editor

Screenshots added. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:12, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I am unable to reproduce in Chrome Windows 10 Vector 2022. Does someone want to try Chrome MacOS Vector 2022, which appears to be the combination in the screenshots? –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:48, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

In the screen shot, the year column is shifted one space to the left, as if the upper-left cell had a colspan of 3 instead of 4. I looked at it in Chrome 104.0.5112.101 on Mac OS with Vector 2022, and I don't see the problem. Maybe a new Chrome bug? That's a weird one. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:54, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I had suspicions that this could be caused by a gadget or browser extension tweaking table headers, checked a few places, and found that the issue is caused by the StickyTableHeaders gadget (Make headers of tables display as long as the table is in view, i.e. "sticky" (requires Chrome v91+, Firefox v59+, or Safari)).

It adds <thead> tags around table rows that only contain header cells, and it does so with no regard to cells spanning multiple rows. It's not the only piece of software with this bug – if the table was made sortable using the built-in mechanism (class="sortable"), it would also suffer from the same problem.

This can be fixed by editing the article to mark the cells with years in that table as header cells. This will cause them to be pulled into the sticky header too, and avoid the issue. Matma Rex talk 07:06, 7 September 2022 (UTC)