When I load the main page on mobile, the page is blank and the only way to view it is to click Read as wiki page.
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I can confirm this. A link to test directly from desktop: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki?useformat=mobile
Isn't this MobileFrontend being MobileFrontend? :-)
Actually, I've never seen this behavior except on talk pages... but the Main page is not a talk page.
Page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/Citation_templates#Re-using_an_existing_footnote speaks about item 'Re-use' using the translation of 'cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool' which is perfect on the EN page as 'Re-use' and coherent with what the menu displays.
On https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=MediaWiki:Cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool/fr&diff=prev&oldid=10006724 the FR translation was initially 'Réutiliser' and after some fights of translators has become 'déjà présente' which brings a non sens in our VE help page in Help:VisualEditor/User guide/Citation templates/fr#Réutiliser une référence existante which has becomes ' Ensuite dans le menu Sourcer, cliquez sur l'élément déjà présente. ' instead of being 'Ensuite dans le menu Sourcer, cliquez sur l'élément Réutiliser.' There is no element "déjà présente" in this VE menu.
Because the FR menu is coherent at execution, my question is rather directed to a developper (@Matma Rex @Whatamidoing (WMF)?) or to someone who can access the code;
Question: which value is used in the code to see the line Re-use of image https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor_Cite_menu_re-use.png ?
.... I dont think it was 'cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool'. We 'll align the help page on the parameter.
Here are some hits for comparison :
{{int|cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool/fr}} → déjà présente
{{int|cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool}} → Re-use
{{int|Citoid-citoiddialog-mode-reuse/fr}} → Réutiliser
{{int|Citoid-citoiddialog-mode-reuse}} → Re-use
Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 21:04, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Question: which value is used in the code to see the line Re-use of image https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor_Cite_menu_re-use.png ?
The message used for this is: cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool
Unfortunately, this message is also used as part of the phrase "Re-use reference" when citations are in the "Insert" dropdown (see my other answer at Topic:Wyi8yvgcxl887ezq). In this case, the text is composed of cite-ve-othergroup-item + cite-ve-dialog-reference-useexisting-tool.
This is probably what is causing the conflict, as it is impossible to translate correctly to fit both contexts in many languages. This problem is reported as T223349.
I suggest optimizing the translation for the first case, where the message is used by itself, as that is used on more projects; and doing the best you can in the other message to make it somewhat understandable (e.g. something like "Reference: Re-use" might work).
When connected on → https://test2.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English?action=edit for example, tab Cite (fr:'sourcer') is present when editing the test page with VE. IT calls the Citoid menu.
On the other side on Mediawiki menu 'Cite V' is not present for example in → https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/Citation_templates&action=edit
BUT the VE Help on MediaWiki describes the existence of this Cite menu (Cite with V) on page → https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:VisualEditor/User_guide/Citation_templates#Re-using_an_existing_footnote
Inever see this menu; either Citoid is present and it corresponds to the 'button' case, or Citoid is not present and there is no menu 'Cite V' to describe!
I think this is to be clarified and section 'Cite V' must be deleted reinforcing informations on button 'Cite'. Advice @Matma Rex @Whatamidoing (WMF)? Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 20:08, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
The mysterious dropdown is still sometimes used! For example, I was able to find it here: https://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matma_Rex/sandbox&veaction=edit
I see that another part of the guide, Help:VisualEditor/User guide#Editing references, describes both systems (although it probably should describe the Citoid one with the button primarily, and only mention the other ones).
Here on MediaWiki.org, the items that would normally appear in the "Cite" dropdown are instead moved to the "Insert" dropdown, since citations are rarely used. This doesn't seem to be described anywhere in the guide.
For better or worse, all three of these are currently supported…
To summarize:
| "Cite" button | "Cite" dropdown | "Insert" dropdown | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Used when | Citoid is installed and configured: Citoid/Enabling Citoid on your wiki | Citoid is not installed or not configured | Citoid is not installed or not configured, and configuration setting $wgCiteVisualEditorOtherGroup is true |
| Example | https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matma_Rex/sandbox&veaction=edit | https://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matma_Rex/sandbox&veaction=edit | https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User:Matma_Rex/sandbox&veaction=edit |
| Looks like |  |
 |
(Looks like there aren't any screenshots of this on Commons) |
| Looks like (expanded) |  |
 
(depending on whether any citation templates are configured) |
Dans le User Guide de VE on nous dit que Citoid doit être 'enabled' pour voir le menu Sourcer. Dans Special:Version j'ai la liste des EXTensions 'autres' installées sur MEdiaWIKi. ELLe y est bien, et si je regarde dans Citoid/Where_citoid_is_enabled elle semble activée par contre je ne vois pas SOURcer dans le VE; qui croire ?
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 09:56, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Fails to mark pages for translation in Mobile view with the following error:
Permission error You do not have permission to manage translatable pages, for the following reason: The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: Translation administrators.
Are you logged in? Desktop and mobile sessions sometimes seem to be independent. For me, the interface loads properly in Meta’s mobile view (I’m a translation administrator there) if I’m logged in, but I get this error message—both in mobile and in desktop view—when I’m logged out.
Yes. After clicking "Mark this version for translation" in Mobile view (e.g. ), the permission error is shown in Desktop view.
Indeed. It’s probably because your edit token gets lost while switching domains, but the form shouldn’t send you to the desktop version in the first place.
On page → https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Single_edit_tab they say a message will ask to set the editor option for next time → https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor_single_edit_tab_preference_dialog.png but trying all possible tricks, I never get this message.
Question: Is it still actual ?
Instead, the default option is 'Remember my last editor', so logically text ' you will be asked to set your preferences the next time you edit. ...' and image should be removed from the page.
@Elitre (WMF) @WhatamIdoing : any advice ?
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
This appears for new editors. In theory, you should see it only once. You can set it directly in Special:Preferences, under the 'Editing' tab. Because VisualEditor/Single edit tab was only deployed to a minority of wikis (but not a minority of editors), if you'll tell me which wiki you are looking at, I can look up exactly which button you'll want to click on.
I am translating GUI EN -> FR here on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ and I use dummy created account on https://test2.wikipedia.org for the snapshots. I need to catch the french version of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor_single_edit_tab_preference_dialog.png but with no hope.
We've turned off this dialog in early 2021: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T273189#6801627
If you want to make it appear for testing, you can open VE and then run the following code in browser console:
windowManager = new OO.ui.WindowManager();
$( document.body ).append( windowManager.$element );
editingTabDialog = new mw.libs.ve.EditingTabDialog();
windowManager.addWindows( [ editingTabDialog ] );
windowManager.openWindow( editingTabDialog );
I took up-to-date screenshots just now:
- French: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F35287156
- English: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/F35287164
(Feel free to copy these files to Commons or elsewhere if you wish, under the usual MediaWiki screenshot license.)
Thank you @Matma Rex for the clear explainations on Phabricator where you say in 2021 : It's probably no longer helpful to show people a popup dialog about a change that happened 5 years ago. We should just stop showing it.
As we describe the current behaviour of the standard VisualEditor (not excluding the fact that for test purposes the dialog can appear back via the proposed trick), I return to the second point of my question and ask @Elitre (WMF) and @Whatamidoing (WMF) if this can be removed from the page. Thanks.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 08:04, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Yes, I think it should be removed.
I've removed it. I got an error message about unbalanced translate tags. Hopefully my correction was the correct one.
Yes, the translate markup is right. (But the edit summary isn’t: you should’ve removed the == signs from the section title to make the link work. Now it generates a link to a section titled
==Choosing your preferences==
But the page is probably short enough that nobody will miss this the working link.)
Thanks all, I really appreciate this collaboration.
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 08:46, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
Hello, all.
The Editing team needs to test Talk pages project/Mobile on a live wiki (it sounds like it's mostly about the instrumentation), and I've nominated MediaWiki.org.
Additionally, I kind of think we should just deploy Discussion Tools (all of it) here, by default. The [reply] tool is already turned on for everyone here. It would make it easier for volunteers to see what we're talking about in practice, and since most Talk: pages use Flow, it shouldn't interfere with most people/most pages. (Also, if you don't like it, then you can turn it off in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.) I haven't talked to Editing about that yet, but does anyone have any concerns about that idea?
Happy from my POV; I'd note that if we think this should get tested widely, we should reverse the decision from years ago to enable StructuredDiscussions by default.
Yes to everything DiscussionTools related and starting to move away from Flow/StructuredDiscussions.
I don't think we need it tested widely here. It should be enough that people can test it, if they're on a suitable page, without having to first go to Special:Prefs to opt in and then find a suitable page.
Update: The rest of DiscussionTools should be enabled here, by default, for everyone on Wednesday, when the devs have a backport window reserved for some other things anyway.
See phab:T311456 for more details. Logged-in users can turn off any pieces they don't want in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. If there are problems, of course, please let me know.
Has there been any thought about using the new talk page tools (Talk pages project) on this wiki?
Kind of - see Topic:Wq5fsfui1dlcxvk4. I don't know/remember what the outcome of that discussion was though, @Whatamidoing (WMF)?
The [reply] tool is on by default for all wikitext-based talk pages. I've asked the Editing team in the past to turn on the DiscussionTools Beta Feature by default.
Is your real question closer to "Has there been any thought about making wikitext be the default page model for talk pages on this wiki?" I don't think I would recommend that until we know whether automatic topic subscriptions (the [subscribe] button) is a good thing to enable by default for all users.
That really was my question and I appreciate the feedback.
The page model was originally switched to Flow because the admins kept getting so many requests for "one-off" changes to new pages. It proved to be less work to change the default and freely grant one-off changes back to wikitext (ask any admin you know, or start a thread here whenever you want; if the page doesn't already exist, it's not considered a big deal, and Flow-to-wikitext conversions are possible).
Editing's planning an A/B test for Talk pages project/Notifications. It will hopefully emerge from instrumentation purgatory at the end of this month, run for about a month, and spend another month while the analyst figures out what happened. Depending on the results, the Editing team will make a recommendation. My guess (but data rules) is that they'll suggest enabling automatic subscriptions for newbies and manual subscriptions for old hands. My second guess is automatic for everyone, but with a highly visible opt-out button, which would have to be built. (Also, by this point, it'll be August, which means Wikimania, and nothing else will happen for weeks.)
On the assumption that the local community would first want to have this information plus (assuming the results are favorable) have the [subscribe] button deployed, I think the very earliest that people would want to talk about any changes would be September (October or even November being more realistic, since everything takes longer than it should).
As for the Editing team's role: They'll provide information and recommendations to all WMF wikis, but they weren't consulted on the switch to Flow in the past, and I don't think they expect to be consulted on any switch away from Flow in the future.
I support enabling DiscussionTools here, and moving away from Flow. Thanks.
Update: The devs have accepted my proposal to enable DiscussionTools here, by default, for everyone. This will happen on Wednesday, when they have a backport window reserved for some other things anyway.
I believe the goal is that phab:T311456 will add to previous deployments to end up with the result that everyone has everything by default, and that logged-in users can turn off any pieces they don't want in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. If there are problems, of course, please let me know.
Dears, could you help me clarifying the following statement?
Section Paragraphs in lists
Paragraphs can be forced in lists by using HTML tags. Two line break symbols, <br /><br />, will create the desired effect. So will enclosing all but the first paragraph with <p>...</p>.
What does it mean?
Two break line, one after another, change the format from paragraph to list? And what happen to what is enclosed between p and /p? thanks
The section is named "Paragraphs in lists", but "Paragraph" is probably very technical or too scoped. It probably makes more sense to label that section "Multiple lines in lists".
The idea is that wiki lists (using * or #) can only contain one line of wikitext, because a newline would break the list. If you want to put more than one line of text (or Paragraph, although it can be a line of text and an image, etc), you may use <br/><br/> inside the same line of wikitext, which inserts 2 line breaks and will render it as 2 lines of text on the page. Wrapping text in <p></p> will render that text in a new paragraph, which will start on its own line when rendered.
The point is clear and well explained. Now, to convince myself that it will work I will try that on sandbox asap.
Then I will make a proposal to update the EN article and we will make it more understandable to people like myself. Thanks again
Bonjour,
Voici pour ceux qui le désirent et qui ne seront pas présents sur place le lien vers la page Jitsi sur laquelle je serai connecté lors de la leçon publique prestée dans le cadre de la finalisation de ma thèse de doctorat portant sur le mouvement Wikimédia. En espérant y retrouver certains d'entre vous, je vous invite à ne pas brancher ni votre micro, ni votre caméra sauf à la demande pour éviter la saturation. Les questions seront les bienvenues via le chat et seront traitées en fonction de la gestion du temps qui nous est imparti. Cela commence à 17 h 30 heure de Bruxelles. Une belle soirée à tous et peut-être à demain !
Salut Lionel, 'Demain' c'est quoi dans une semaine ? mets la date stp ou signe ton message.
Lire la thèse sur Wikiversité => https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Recherche:Imagine_un_monde
Christian 🇫🇷 FR (talk) 10:29, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
C'est aujourd'hui vendredi 17 juin à 17h30