DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS. I am NOT OP. Original post by in , , and on his profile

AIW for refusing to meet my biological mum after in person I signed up for a DNA testing site?

I'm a 24M who was adopted when I was 6 years old. I’ve always felt incredibly lucky because my adoptive parents, who were in their late 20s when they took me in, have been nothing short of amazing. They’ve loved and supported me as if I were their own flesh and blood, and I’ve never felt like anything was missing in my life because of being adopted.

Growing up, I had very minimal details about my adoption. I know that I was removed from my biological family by social services due to neglect and abuse, but I don’t remember anything about my life before I was adopted. It’s not something I’ve dwelled on much because I’ve never felt like I needed those missing pieces to feel complete or valued.

Recently, out of simple curiosity, I decided to sign up for one of those at-home DNA testing kits. I wasn’t looking for a reunion or any deep connection; I just wanted to know more about my genetic history, like why I was removed from my biological family, and if there were any medical issues I should be aware of. Honestly, I didn’t expect to find anyone closely related to me, so it felt like a low-stakes way to get some answers.

About eight weeks after sending off the kit, I finally remembered to check the results, and to my surprise, I matched with my biological mother ("BM"). She had sent me a message saying she was overjoyed that I had done the test and that she desperately wanted to reconnect with me and the rest of my biological family. She mentioned that she’s thought of me every day, that I was always loved, and even that I have a biological little brother who is very excited to meet me—something I didn’t even know.

Her message was really emotional and, to be honest, overwhelming. To me, she’s a complete stranger, and reading those words didn’t stir anything in me other than discomfort. I spent a lot of time crafting a thoughtful response to BM, explaining that while I appreciated her message, I wasn’t interested in forming a relationship with her or any of my biological family. I made it clear that my reason for doing the DNA test was purely informational—I wanted to understand my past, maybe get some medical history, and learn why I was removed, but that was it. I apologized if my actions gave her the wrong impression.

BM read my message and replied, saying that she’d be willing to give me all the information I wanted, but only if I agreed to meet her at a cafe to discuss our relationship further. I refused, telling her that I wasn’t comfortable with a face-to-face meeting. I offered a phone call as a compromise but emphasized that I just wanted the information and then for both of us to move on with our lives.

She outright refused to provide any information unless I agreed to meet with her in person and discuss our relationship.

I talked to my best friend about this, and she sided with BM, saying that I was being unfair. She argued that by signing up for the DNA site, I had essentially opened the door to this kind of situation and that refusing to meet with BM now is like playing mind games and leading them on.

So, AITA for not wanting a relationship with my biological mum after I signed up for the DNA testing site?

Top Comments

Queen_of_Meh1987

NTA. She's holding your info hostage to get you to meet with her, which is her being TA. You were removed for a reason, and she probably wants to fill you with her version.

Since you know her name, can you contact the agency that removed you to request the information?

OOP

I could have always gone through the route of getting in touch with social services and seeing what they can tell me, though I am not sure how much they can share because of data protection, so I just thought it would be easier this way. Also it would have been nice to hear it from my family's perspective, if you get what I mean.

raodek

As a fellow adoptee I vote NTA without question. You don't owe her anything. I'd argue she owes you information though. Something she did caused the adoption to happen and she's awful for holding that information hostage.

Your friend is completely in the wrong and if they aren't adopted I'm not surprised about their opinion. A lot of non-adopted people have really weird opinions on how adoptees should feel and act. Classical one being that we should all feel grateful for our adoptive parents because they "saved" us.

OOP

No they are not adopted, which yeah may explain their perspective. They did annoy me though calling me unfair for not having a relationship with them despite the fact it's not something I've ever wanted. It was unfortunate that BM saw I was on there and messaged me first, and I feel bad that it may have given her false hope. I wish I could have been the first to message to get it out there right away what I was expecting.

specialkk77

NTA. Fellow adoptee here, I did meet my birth mother when I was 16 and I’ve spent the following 16 years regretting it. Mine is selfish and manipulative and pulled the same trick “I’ll tell you everything when I see you” nope. Do not engage. Half of what she told me was outright lies, and she’s desperately tried to wedge herself into my life at every opportunity when I’ve made it clear I do not want her (how does it feel to be unwanted, egg donor? Welcome to my world.)

I’m an adult, I have my own children now. My parents were wonderful people. I didn’t have the best life ever or anything but I was raised by people who loved me and wanted the best for me.

It’s hard, your BM has expectations and you have different ones. The thing is, she’s being unrealistic and unreasonable by holding the info you want hostage. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. It’s not right of her and it’s not fair to you.

OOP

I understood that what she would have told me wouldn't have likely been the objective truth. But I was interested in hearing it from her anyway, in some ways I suppose I was a little curious about her and her life but I didn't want a relationship with her at this point in my life. But that wouldn't have been me saying never, and she didn't tell me how old her other son is but depending I would have possibly been willing to meet him at least.

The fact that she tried to force my hand has left a really sour taste in my mouth, and has made the whole thing icky. I think I have decided I am going to write her a final message about how I didn't appreciate being told I would only be allowed that information if I met up with her and discussed a relationship with her. I think I will say it comes across as manipulative, and that is what put the final nail in the coffin that I certainly don't want anything to do with her.

But does that seem too much? I'm not going overboard by saying that to her am I?

Initial-Company3926

NTA

I honestly find it a bit concerning she is using blackmail to get her way, completely ignoring how you feel. You are not comfortable meeting her, and that is your right and it is okay!

You decided, despite not wanting to, to give her a phonecall instead. She still refused

As I said I am concerned. She doesn´t have your best interest at heart only what she wants I get she wants to meet you, but the only thing she is doing is driving you away with her demands/blackmail

I am so sorry

OOP

It does seem that way to me, I feel better knowing that I wasn't being blind. Though certainly was being naive to think that she would just give me all the information I was looking for. The fact that she is giving me demands makes me more certain that I don't want to meet her.

And the extra thing is, I may have been open to a potential IRL meeting at some point in the future if she didn't try to force me. But now she has, I don’t know, I am feeling pretty confused at the minute. Depending on the age of the son, I may be willing to have some contact with him. But again, it definitely wouldn't be an IRL thing right away.

Update: AIW for refusing to meet my biological mum after in person I signed up for a DNA testing site?

Hey, everyone. It’s been about 9 days since I last posted, and I thought it was time for an update. I really want to thank everyone who took the time to comment and offer advice. I’ve read through everything, and it’s been both helpful and eye-opening.

So, after all the advice and some serious thinking, I decided to talk to my biological mum again, hoping that maybe if I explained myself better, she’d understand where I was coming from. Unfortunately, things went downhill fast. Instead of trying to meet me halfway, she just got more manipulative, insisting that I was being selfish for not wanting to meet her in person. She refused to give me any information unless I agreed to her terms, which was a hard no from me.

I’ve come to realise that I was pretty naive to think that my biological family might be decent people after everything. I mean, I was removed from their care for a reason, but I guess a part of me wanted to believe that people can change. Looking back, I feel kind of dumb for even starting this whole journey. It’s brought up a lot of emotions that I wasn’t really prepared to deal with, and to be honest, I’m feeling pretty down about the whole situation.

And as for my best friend… well, that’s another disappointment. She didn’t just side with my biological mum initially—she’s been unsupportive throughout this whole mess. Even after I told her about the latest conversation, she couldn’t really understand why I was so upset. She kept saying that I should just “give them a chance” and “not be so harsh.” It’s like she doesn’t get how hard this is for me, and I’m starting to feel like she never really did. It’s tough because I’ve always considered her one of my closest friends, but right now, I’m not sure she’s someone I can rely on.

After all this, I decided to sit down with my adoptive parents and talk everything over with them. I hadn’t really opened up to them about how deep this was affecting me, but they were amazing, as always. They were upset when they heard how my biological mum was acting, and they reassured me that none of this is my fault. They reminded me that there’s a reason I was removed from that situation, and it’s not on me to fix it or make things right with people who’ve clearly not changed.

Talking with them made me realise just how lucky I am to have them. They’ve been there for me every step of the way, and they made it clear that whatever happens, they’re my real family—the ones who’ve loved and supported me no matter what. It’s hard not to feel down after everything that’s happened, but having them in my corner makes it a bit easier to cope.

Honestly, I regret even starting this whole DNA journey. It’s brought up more pain than I expected, and I can’t help but wish I’d just left the past where it belongs. But at the same time, I’m grateful that it’s reminded me of how blessed I am to have my adoptive parents. They’re the ones who’ve always been there for me, and I couldn’t ask for a better family.

So, that’s where I’m at. I’m going to focus on the people who truly care about me and let go of the rest. It’s not easy, but I know I’m on the right path. Thanks again to everyone who reached out—it’s really helped me feel less alone in all this.

Take care, everyone.

My favourite memory.

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking a lot about my family today, especially after everything that’s been going on lately. It got me reminiscing about some of the best moments I’ve had with them, and there’s one memory that stands out—something from when I was still a kid that I’ll never forget.

I must have been about 8 years old, just a couple of years after I was adopted. It was around Christmas time, and I remember feeling nervous because it was only my second Christmas with my adoptive parents. Holidays always make me feel weird, even now.

Anyway, my dad's friend owned a Christmas tree farm and that year, my mum and dad decided to take me to pick our Christmas tree. We spent what felt like hours walking through rows and rows of trees. My parents kept asking me which one I liked best, and I remember feeling so much pressure, like I had to pick the absolute best one or else I’d ruin Christmas. But they were so patient, letting me take my time.

Finally, I pointed out a tree—honestly, it looked like every other one to me, but my parents made a huge deal out of it. My dad knelt down to start sawing, and I remember him pretending to struggle, saying, “Oh no, I think this tree might be too strong for me!” My dad made me come over and help me, saying he couldn't do it alone.

So, there I was, this little 8YO, pretending to help my dad saw down this tree. Of course, I wasn’t actually doing anything, but they made me feel like I was the strongest kid in the world. When the tree finally fell, my dad swept me up in his arms and spun me around, saying, “We did it!”

After we got home and set up the tree, my mum brought out these old boxes full of ornaments. She told me that we were going to start a new tradition—every year, we’d each pick out one new ornament to add to the tree, something that represented something special from that year.

That night, they handed me my very first ornament—a little wooden bear holding a heart with the word “Family” carved into it. My mum said, “This one’s for you, because you made our family complete.” I remember holding that ornament, feeling this huge wave of love and belonging that I’d never really felt before. At the time, I don't think it even hit me how impactful that was. How that moment defines the way I look at myself today. I was part of a loving family. I was their family.

Every Christmas after that, we’d pull out that little wooden bear and hang it up first. It became our tradition. The reason I’ve been thinking about this memory today is because it’s a reminder of how lucky I am to have the parents I do. They didn’t just give me a home—they gave me a sense of belonging and they gave me love. Even with everything that’s been going on, I know that I’ve got something really special, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share this. I just needed to remind myself how amazing my family is, and I hope it brings a smile to your face like it does to mine.

Reminder - I am not the original poster. DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS.

is a subreddit to discuss the difficulties of finding a job--especially in this environment. One post talks about doing :

So,

I completed the gauntlet of over 10 interviews, multiple panel interviews, and a C-suite meeting over a 3 month period.

A month and a half later, no word on the job. Random response from their recruiter a few weeks ago, "you look good, and we are just finishing things up..."

Mind you what they didn't know is that I know someone working for the company who works in HR(not recruiting), and says its down to three people and I'm the most qualified of the bunch. Just languishing in department for decision...."

Guess what I'll cut to the chase, I was just told that they went with another candidate. Thanks please play again..."

I just got a short text from my friend after letting him know that I didn't get it. His response

"It was a BS DEI decision, Sorry"

If they wanted someone to increase the diversity of their company, they could have told me that 5 F'n months ago. Why string me along that whole time. Anyone else deal with this BS? It's a first on me.

Predictably, this causes drama some people blame OP for putting all his eggs in one basket:

Others question how OP knows it was a DEI hire:

 

e

While others are sure that OP is a victim of DEI:

It

OP's comments are also fun too, when people questioned how his friend would even know, magically his friend is somehow aware of the hiring process at the company:

Of course a couple of people question if this post was made by an alt-right bot/fake (it is election season in the US, after all):

My (53f) boyfriend (53M) has a son, age 14 who lives with his mother. In the past we had gotten along well, however about 18 months ago everything changed. Son did not like living in our home due to the rules and boundaries his father and I set up. So he left and now lives with his mother. It is worth mentioning, there is a history of physical and emotional abuse by the mother on her 2 children. She and my boyfriend have been divorced over 13 years now, and he fought for custody rights in the divorce to try and protect his children from her abuse. Unfortunately, both children keep running back to their abuser.

On to the current issue! Son's mother was going out of town for the weekend and had arranged for son to stay with his father (in our home). The only stipulation was son needed to be taken home each day to feed their pet guinea pigs. All arrangements were made and agreed upon, so my boyfriend and I made some arrangements for fun activities for son while he stayed with us. We were to have son from Thursday night through Monday, and my boyfriend adjusted his schedule to accommodate getting him to school and feeding the pets.

Friday morning: boyfriend dropped son off at home and he was to go to school from there. Later that morning, boyfriend called me because son had called stating he had an accident on his bicycle on his way to school and could not attend because of it. (NOTE: son is notorious for skipping school - at least twice a week - and mother always calls his absence in so it is excused). I was contacted because I was closest in distance at the time, and I offered to pick son up and take him to the hospital to make sure there was no major injury or concussion. Son called his mother, he was excused from school, I was told to "step off", and the issue was over. Mom was extremely upset her son called her while she was away and told boyfriend to leave her alone. Boyfriend picked up son after work and he stayed the night at our home. BTW - son never speaks to me anymore, doesn't want anything from me, so I give him just that; nothing.

Saturday: boyfriend took son and started on his day of errands, a few chores around the house and planned to take son on a 4x4 off road adventure in the afternoon. During their time together boyfriend talked to son about skipping school, and tried to offer some guidance. Father/Son talk. Son complained that the way the world works is unfair, then had an emotional meltdown over it (full on crying - it's his "go to" move to get his way). One errand was taking son to his home to feed the guinea pigs. Boyfriend waited over an hour in his car for son to come back so they could continue the day (BF was playing games on his phone and didn't realize the amount of time that passed). Son did not communicate anything to his father, would not answer the door, and when boyfriend called him, son said he was not going with him and locked himself in the apartment. The upsetting part about this is that son didn't bother to tell anyone he planned this and left his father outside to wait. When boyfriend got home we discussed some options. In the end it was decided boyfriend would go to collect son in the evening and if son refused to come out, or communicate with him, he would have to get the police involved. Reminder: mom is out of town and had already stated she did not want to be bothered. There was a 1 hour show down and son would not come out of the apartment. He did not answer calls from his father, and turned out all the lights pretending no one was home. Boyfriend then called police. I showed up just as the police were talking with son in the apartment. Police said they spoke with his mother and she gave permission for her 14 yr old son to stay in the apartment overnight alone. Police also said son felt threatened by father, made accusations of abuse, and had another hysterical breakdown. After some discussion, and laughing at the police's advise the mother and son need therapy (they'll never do it) we left.

This was the last straw for me. I told my boyfriend that I will support him every way I can regarding his relationship with his son, but I refuse to be in the same vicinity of that boy ever again. Should his son need to be in our home for any reason, I will not be. Any vacations planned which include the son, I will not participate or attend. It seems harsh, but I refuse to get in the way of my boyfriends relationship with his son, and I refuse to be around to see how this boy disrespects everyone because he believes the world should revolve around him. I do not want to witness his disrespectful attitude, hear how he speaks to his father and grandmother, nor do I believe I have to. It hurts me to do this, but I have reached a point where I believe I have no other choice. So, AITA??

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . He posted in .

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. Latest update is 7 days old.

Trigger Warning: medical malpractice; false abuse accusations

Mood Spoiler: frustrating

Original : August 21, 2024

Throwaway for anonymity. This also happened a few months ago but I've recently been told I took things too far.

I'm active duty military. My wife and I began trying for a baby about two years after we got married, and after a few months she got pregnant with our first child. About six weeks after she found out, I was deployed for a six month stint. Sadly that meant I would miss all of her OB appointments except the very first one to confirm she was pregnant. Early in her pregnancy she decided using a midwife would give her a better birth experience and I was totally on board because she's the one giving birth and I wanted her to feel 100% confident in the people assisting. It had also been decided that the people in the room (aside from medical staff) would be me for obvious reasons, and one of our mothers. My mom lives about an hour by car from the base I'm stationed at, while her mom lives a four hour plane ride away. Ideally her mom would be able to get there in time, but she loves my mom too and was okay with her being there if labor went fast and her mom couldn't make it in time.

Fast forward to me getting back from the deployment and her being really close to giving birth. Like due in a week close. She was supposed to have an OB appointment that I would be able to go to, but ended up going into labor very early on the morning of the appointment. We go to the (civilian) hospital and they confirm she's in active labor. I called her mom, who immediately booked a flight that would have gotten her here at about noon. Then my mom, who came to the hospital a few hours later. Awhile later the midwife comes in to see my wife, and was rude from the start.

My wife told her I was back from deployment and she calmed down a little but was still clearly not happy I was in the room. Especially once I started cracking jokes to try to distract my wife from the pain of the contractions. Then the midwife glared at me and told me to "take this seriously" and have respect for my wife while she's in pain. I thought her hostility was weird, but was more focused on my wife and doing all I could to support her. As it got closer to noon, my wife was almost 9cm dilated and so I decided not to go pick up her mom from the airport and had her take a cab instead, so I wouldn't have to leave for over an hour to drive to the airport. When her mom did get to the hospital, I left the L&D floor briefly to go downstairs and pay the cab driver so her mom wouldn't need to. As the cab is pulling up, I got a call from my mom telling me the OB and midwife were there, and the baby was coming fast. Of course I rushed back up there after tossing some cash to the cab driver, so her mom and I could be there for the birth. When I got back to the L&D floor my mom was in the waiting room since she had to step out to make the phone call and also knew she would be waiting outside. I used the intercom to ask to be let back in, and to my surprise, I was denied entry. They said they had an order to not let me or anyone in to see my wife. That was really confusing so I asked why, and was just told I wouldn't be let in and not to tie them up on the intercom or security would be called. So the three of us waited outside, since my wife didn't answer her phone as she was actively pushing our baby out. Well over two hours later she was able to call me back, and asked where I had been. I told her the hospital staff wouldn't let me in but I had been in the waiting room trying to get answers for almost 2.5 hours.

Long story short, it was the midwife who told the desk staff that I wasn't to be let back in. She lied and said my wife had reported I was abusive and she didn't want me there. So not only did my poor wife have to give birth ALONE and without me or her mom there for support, I missed the birth of my daughter. It meant a lot to me to be there to see my baby come into the world, because I missed so much of the pregnancy, and that was ripped away from me because this awful woman didn't like that I "never showed up to a single appointment the entire pregnancy" despite being told by my wife that I was deployed. Sooo, with my wife's support I filed a formal complaint about the midwife. And she ended up getting fired by the OB's office.

My wife is naturally on my side, but some of our friends have said I was wrong to make such a big deal out of it and taking away the woman's livelihood. Was I the AH for reporting her, which caused her to lose her job? I'd like the perspective of people outside the situation.

EDIT: I took some advice and contacted JAG (military lawyers) to meet with an attorney about taking further steps. I have a meeting scheduled for Monday afternoon to discuss what can and should be done to ensure this doesn’t happen to anyone else in the future. Thanks to everyone who offered support. And screw those who DM’ed me to tell me I’m garbage for being in the military and deserve to die because they think I hit my wife. You all have a place saved in hell.

EDIT 2 (Same Post): August 23, 2024 (2 days later)

Since some people are so caught up on me paying for my MIL’s cab, and the jokes I was making with my wife, I’ll clear it up. I made jokes because she ASKED me to distract her from the pain by making her laugh. We were both making jokes, not just me. I also paid for my MIL’s cab because my wife told me to make sure I went down and paid, and also because it was the right thing to do since she didn’t choose to take the cab. That was my choice since it was last minute.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Fuk that! ANYONE says YTHA is not your friend/family and they can kick rocks. That midwife was out of line. How dare she!

I wish there was someway to give you back those moments, its so unfair and unnecessary. I dont understand why poeple need to be so mean.

OOP: Aside from being mad about my wife having to go through it all alone, I'm mad that I wasn't the first one to hold my daughter. Our plan was for me to hold her first, then my wife, then whichever grandma won the coin toss. And yeah, the grandmas both decided to leave it up to either a coin toss or paper-rock-scissors. Lol

Wife and baby now:

They're both doing great. My wife had a rough recovery for the first month or so, but the baby was and is perfect. She's nine weeks now and I'm in love. I can't wait to get home every day and see both of them.

Commenter: That shit could’ve gotten you court-martialed, no? What the midwife did was malicious and dangerous to you and your family. She deserves to be fired and worse.

OOP: If it had been a military hospital, I would have been investigated for sure. Nothing would have been found but it would have had career implications for sure.

Commenter: It sounds let the jokes set her off. Then she started power Tripping. Midwives can act that way. I would file a complaint with the board of nursing and whatever licensing board midwives go through. Have some fun with it. Maybe even get an attorney. One thing we already know is the medical group won’t stand behind her. I doubt the hospital will either. Go get her.

OOP: My wife was laughing at the jokes so she should have known we were just having fun. We never found out the gender beforehand so we had a running joke where we both suggested outlandish names for either gender. I had a long list that I would pull from when she had a particularly painful contraction. My wife labored without pain meds and I think she's amazing for doing that. I would have wanted all the drugs if I were having a baby.

Commenter: It sounds like the civilian hospital is in a military community also, so she should be somewhat acquainted with deployments and whatnot. No, NTA. You sound like a good husband who wanted to support his wife. To being denied entry because she had some hard on is disgusting and she deserved to be fired. I hope you received an apology from the OB.

OOP: The OB was so apologetic. She assumed I had to leave the room for some reason and just didn't make it back in time. From the time my wife was determined to be ready to push to when our daughter was born was only about 15 minutes. My wife is an absolute rockstar and pushed for all she was worth, so the baby came quickly. It wasn't until after that the OB learned I was locked out of the unit along with both moms. I don't blame the OB at all.

Commenter: That midwife is awful and deserved to be fired. Don't feel bad for a freaking second. She assumed you were abusive and ruined a very delicate, vulnerable, and special moment for all of you!

What was her excuse to not let in her mom? Was her mom suddenly abusive too?

OOP: According to the OB, she implied she thinks all military members abuse their spouses so she spoke up when my wife "wouldn't" for herself. But she had no answer for not letting my MIL in. I wouldn't have been as upset if at least one of the moms was there. But she made sure no one was and that hurts me because my wife deserved to be supported.

Commenter: Did you wife say anything after it was all over to her? Or anyone for that matter from the birth team or hospital before you filed?

OOP: She said she fell asleep shortly after the birth because she was exhausted, and I totally understand that. Then she woke up about 45 minutes later and asked the nurses if they knew where I was, which is when one of them told her the midwife said no one was to be let in, per my wife's request. She panicked for a minute and asked for her phone on the table, and that's when she saw all my missed calls. Most of the nurses were apologetic, and said they had worked with the midwife for a long time and didn't have a reason not to believe her.

There is no consensus bot for AITAH, but a majority of comments are NTA and encourage OOP to seek legal counsel

Update : August 27, 2024 (6 days later)

We met with the JAG attorney on Monday and it seems like I have a good case for going after her license, as well as a possible defamation lawsuit. She’s a certified nurse-midwife so she has a license that can be revoked or suspended. I’m not convinced it needs to be revoked altogether but I do think she should be suspended for a while and forced to get more training in her field. The attorney JAG assigned to me is a parent herself and seemed genuinely appalled that someone would have to miss the birth of their child because a member of the medical staff used their influence to deny entry back into the maternity wing. Especially when it’s for a made-up reason that could have gotten me in a lot of trouble with the Navy. 

My wife was able to come with me to the meeting and had a brief conversation alone with the JAG. On the drive home she told me what they spoke about, and basically the attorney just needed to confirm that everything the midwife said about me being abusive was false and unfounded. When my wife told her I have never and would never lay a hand on her or my child, she asked if my wife felt any sort of emotional distress about me not being there for the birth. She confirmed that she does, and that’s when it was decided that we would try to build a case for more than just possible medical malpractice. We don’t care about any monetary gain. If we were awarded anything, it will go into an educational account for our daughter, or be donated to a charity. We are in agreement that the midwife should have to answer for what she did though. She took away a once in a lifetime experience for me. Even if we have more children, I’ll never get back the lost experience of not seeing my firstborn come into the world. 

So that’s where things stand right now. Any further updates will most likely be a long way off since there’s going to be pending litigation soon. Thank you to (almost) everyone who commented and offered encouragement. It gave me the push I needed to seek out a legal remedy for the situation. My wife and I are truly thankful. 

I am NOT The OOP is u/RAkindoflosthere 

Planning to ghost him after finding out he’s cheating on me

Originally posted to  

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, property damage, emotional manipulation, mentions of sexual assault, stalking, harassment

  March 4, 2022

Found out my boyfriend was cheating a few weeks ago. Been spiraling since. Literally only running off of vengeance and pure disgust.

I got this weird gut feeling and checked his phone while he was asleep. Those 20 minutes locked in the bathroom felt like years, and the shame keeps me from talking to anyone about it. I moved across the country to be with him, so I’m all alone. No friends or family here.

He woke me up the next morning with kisses and breakfast and has been doing so a lot, lately. Probably the guilt.

He even bought me flowers for the first time ever. After me hinting at wanting them for years.

He thought my quiet crying was out of happiness. He even brought up buying a house for us, something with enough space for potential future children.

I’m still going through the motions. Making his breakfast and protein shake everyday, packing his lunch, making sure dinner is almost ready when he comes home from the gym.

What makes me the angriest is that I really, genuinely thought he wouldn’t do something like this. He watched his father cheat on his mother and father children out of their marriage, all while she struggled with infertility her entire life (my partner isn’t her biological son) and never had her own. She dedicated her life to the two of them and passed away of ovarian cancer shortly before we met.

Sometimes I think about whether she regretted staying with her husband or not. We have a small shrine in her honor and something makes me look at and expect guidance. I love the man she raised and hate the one her husband did. But they’re both him, and he’s a grown ass man more than capable of self control, so I decided to walk away.

Next week my car will be picked up and shipped back home, and I got first class tickets for me and my dog on his dime. He’ll come back home from work and everything I brought will be gone, along with me.

The only thing I think I might regret is not somehow being able to see his reaction when he walks through the door and realizes what’s going, lol.

 RELEVANT COMMENTS

Future_Ad8467

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's the hardest thing to let go. As hopeless as it can feel sometimes, it does get better. Take your time in the beginning, but I think it's therapeutic to confront him, eventually. Ghosting doesn't provide closure for you. In my experience, confronting the problem, head on, gave me a sense of closure. I try to take everything that happens as a life lesson. Good luck with everything

OOP

I personally don’t believe in closure. I got all that I needed when I realized he was untrustworthy

~

Odd_One_9972

Do you have access to his phone/computer?  Install a keylogger, then you can not only see what he's saying to you, but to the other APs as well.  I put a keylogger on my ex's phone/computer when I caught him cheating.  He was such a dumbass, and seeing the shit he was saying, the lies he was spewing, made me grateful I dropped his ass. 

OOP

I do, but I don’t think it would make a difference for me. His entire “relationships” with the APs was lies.

Everything from his name, age, college degree, occupation, city, height, and dick size. He even told one he was married and his wife was pregnant with twins. I almost had a heart attack thinking I was an AP too and he had a family out there somewhere.

~

 Suspicious_Bear_6634

If he can go after you, you should probably leave a note or a sign that you're leaving him because of his cheating. Seeing that you up and left without a known reason (from his pov) might push him to follow you home. If he knows the reason and knows that he has no chance in hell in getting you back, it might delay a possible confrontation.

OOP

you’re right. I’ve been considering just leaving a sticky note with a list of all the different girls names and the apartment key beside it. Simple and effective

 Suspicious_Bear_6634

Fuck, multiple girls?? Draw a little middle finger beside them while you're at it. And make sure there are little to no supplies (food, toiletries, cleaning stuff) left and leave the house dirty so that he can appreciate how much you did for the asshole.

OOP

7 of them to be precise. I’ll have to rush and get out within a certain time frame but I might just settle for shrimp in the curtain rods. He’s really sensitive to smells lol

   March 4, 2022

Almost every day my boyfriend sends me money for lunch, gas, something. I thought he was just really kind. Turns out he was cheating and giving me $$ made him feel less guilty, as though he didn’t beg me to move across the country with him where I know no one.

Once I found out I wanted to immediately confront him but was scared of the outcome since the apartment was only in his name and again, I know no one here.

Now I just save every dime of what he sends to be able to pay for the $3000 moving fees to go back home without hurting my own pocket too much.

Breaking my heart, destroying my ability to trust & scaring me off from men I can handle, but messing with my finances? Nah. never.

The transport company is coming next wednesday to take my car, and my plane tickets for me and my dog have been bought. Gonna keep up my happy act and do the usual cooking of dinner and scrubbing his back and poof on Wednesday like I never knew him. Its the only form of revenge I could do that wouldnt haunt me. Good riddance!

Edit: A few asked for details. There’s 7+ other women, everything he told them was a lie. Name, age, height, city, occupation. All of it.

The only common denominator was that he bought us all the exact same lingerie set for his birthday in January. 🙃 And specifically requested I hang it up in our closet where it’s viewable. Forgiveness is not on the table. He’ll be surprised, but I doubt he’ll be hurt.

 RELEVANT COMMENTS

purejones

I look forward to it, how did you find out if it’s not too personal?

OOP

Woke up randomly in the middle of the night and “he’s up to no good” was all I could think about. I sleep like a literal baby and never, ever wake up like that. Took his phone and locked myself in the bathroom while he was asleep and found it all.  

   March 5, 2022

I’ll be single again pretty soon and I’m looking forward to it but also not. Like yay! I finally can cook when/how I want to and don’t have to split chores and can do everything on my own my way.

But thats the only good part.

I’ve been on my own since I was 16 and I’ve turned out (mostly) fine, I have a paid off house and car, cute dog, debt free, and I’m finishing up my masters degree at 25. It could be worse.

But I’m lonely. I’m not on speaking terms with my family and had a huge fall out with my lifelong friends a couple years ago. I haven’t tried making friends since bc part of me hopes one day I can find a way to fix that friendship.

Plus I’m moving around so much that making friends is pointless. I’m not good at long distance anything.

I never prided myself on romantic relationships- sure, they’re cool, but a loving group of women was always where I found the most peace and understanding and that’s what I want the most.

I guess I’m just going through things right now and I really wish I had people I trust to talk to. Friend breakups hurt the most.

 RELEVANT COMMENTS

OOP when asked how she had a house at a young age

 OOP

Neither. I lived with my friends and their parents until college started. Already had a scholarship. Just worked 3 jobs until I was 22 and lived frugally.

 ~

 Dufusbroth

The maths for time and money aren’t working out on this end but there is also a lot of variable/info that is missing.

It took my 7 years to payoff my house and I was contributing to it like it was an emergency. Qualifying for a home and paying it off in that amount of time without help seems nearly impossible. I’m so curious about the formula here! I need a lesson in finance from OP. When I broke it down on it just doesn’t seem possible except from a financial windfall counting even a frugal cost of living along with an accounting for taxes paid, etc… and that did not include the cost for transportation, medical, groceries, blah blah blah

OOP

The house was a 70k foreclosure and is 4bed/4bath. I was a golf caddy, gentlemen’s club bartender and occasional hostess, and notary signing agent. Along with selling stationary items on etsy. Also my scholarships paid for quite a bit of my home in general- they never specified what kind of housing for them, just housing. I lived in 1 room and rented out the other 3.

 Dufusbroth

That’s the info I was looking for- thanks you! That is very smart. Good going! Good luck with your situation- so interested how he reacts to your departure

   March 9, 2022

I found out my boyfriend of almost 4 years was cheating. We’ve lived together for 2 years and I’m leaving him tomorrow. He just doesn’t know yet. And won’t until after I’m gone.

As mad as I am, as betrayed as I feel, I still love him. All I really want is to wake up tomorrow and this all be a nightmare. I don’t enjoy this slice of reality.. that the person I loved the most has looked me in my eye and lied to me for who knows how long.

and every time I do it I’m left wondering how many times he did it. How many times did he wine, dine, and fuck other women and come home to me? How many times have I been the stupid girlfriend who trusted her boyfriend blindly? How many times have I been some woman’s laughing stock? Did he fuck us back to back? Did his friends know? Did they look me in my fucking eye and really not say anything? Did he love them? How many times did he tell me he loved me and meant it? When did he stop meaning it? Did he ever even mean it the first time?

I’m not a master manipulator. Unlike him. I’m just composed because I’ve never had any other choice. Emotions got you beat or worse when it came to my parents and I’m more than aware I have a shitload of trauma to unpack but I can’t.

Not in the self pity, woe is me, its too hard, but no. I probably just can’t. Therapists here are wildly westernized and once I start with the short list they’ll probably just charge me double. Maybe triple. And the last time I tried he kept trying to convince me I enjoyed my own assault.

Maybe I got cheated on because I’m emotionally inept. My intimacy levels are quite limited. The few times he asked about my childhood I either a) brushed him off or b) told him one thing I thought wasn’t that bad and he was so shocked I held out on the actually bad parts.

And that’s where the hate comes in. He knows what it’s like to grow up feeling unwanted. He knows what it’s like to lose your parents young. He knows what it’s like to feel like your entire life has been horrible event after horrible event.

But he still did this to me and I don’t get how he could. I could never cheat on anyone, let alone someone who’s shared such personal things with me.

I haven’t so much as made eye contact with another man since we met… other people were just other people and we were us.

I don’t know. I just don’t see being able to date again. I had deep seeded trust issues long before this and growing old by myself with 30 cats genuinely sounds nice. Hell, great even. At least I won’t always be wondering when the betrayal will come.

   March 10, 2022

Transport company came and picked up my car. Sold whatever big furniture I brought for low prices. Took his dog to the park and played with him a bit, got him a dog cupcake and took him back to the apartment.

Movers started coming for the rest of my stuff and I hadn’t prepared for our property manager thinking we were both moving out and we hadn’t given them the required vacancy notice. She came to talk to me right as my uber was coming and I told her what was going.

Unfortunately they had already called him bc only his name on the lease. He’s called and texted me a few times but I haven’t replied. His work day won’t be over for a couple of more hours.

I left my apartment keys, and anything he’s ever bought for me that I hadn’t sold already. Didn’t feel like taking that stuff with me. While packing I remembered we bought a pet camera that shoots treats on the entertainment center and turned it back on. I promised myself I’ll disconnect from it by midnight tomorrow but I have my own predictions about how he’ll react and I just gotta know for sure. Yeah, it’s fucked up. Sue me lol

I actually forgot to leave a note and was running out of time before my uber came and just left the lingerie set he was so obsessed with on the bed. He’ll figure it out eventually. Or not.

I’m at the airport now with my dog and just waiting on my flight. I wish I could say that I feel free but I don’t. Just tired.

Thank you all for the well wishes and thank you more to all of the other women who reached out with similar stories. I think I might’ve caved and stayed if you all hadn’t.

RELEVANT COMMENTS 

Suspicious_Bear_6634

What did he say on the text when they informed him that things were being moved out?

*OOP

Just that he got a call from property management and asked if I ordered something big and if anything was going on.

 March 14, 2022

Update: I turned it on for about ten minutes after I got back to my home and unpacked. He wasn’t there, but everything was a mess. There was a hole in the wall, furniture flipped over, papers everywhere, the kitchen looked like a tornado went through it.

I deleted all of my other social media accounts but didn’t block his number. The first two days he called me over 200 times. Lots of novel ass text messages and him admitting to some shit I didn’t even know about yet. Quite a few calls from his dad and friends too.

I didn’t reply to any of them

LAST UPDATE FOUND

Thanks to for finding this update

  Oct 17, 2022

Even though I have seen messages asking about an update I didnt think anyone actually wanted one. Life just came full circle and I saw my posts on my tiktok “for you (literally) page”.

Just a few things-

I mentioned in a comment that I think his dad was the reason his mom passed: Not in the straight up k!ller way, but the “I cheated so much and gave my wife an STD that lead to her getting HPV, and since I didnt allow her to get medical treatment she ended up infertile with cervical cancer** (I misspoke and said ovarian) and died” way. Of course no one will ever know that for sure but I doubt it helped any. My ex had always claimed he did not respect his father (he is their bio nephew, not son) as a man due to it.

When I found out he was cheating forgiving him was never an option because I have no interest in following in his moms footsteps. I did not have any signs, besides that a few months in he locked down his social media bc he didnt want to get passed up on a promotion due to politics.

I did ghost everyone we mutually knew for a month or two until I figured out who I could and couldn’t trust to not just tell him my new socials/phone number/address. I never blocked his number, but I never replied to any texts or calls. They eventually died out 2 or so months later.

He ended up finding out anyway and I moved again, out of state this time. At the last place he showed up at 7am and I saw him on my ring door bell looking around and showing my photo to people. One of my dumbass neighbors confirmed I lived there, down to my dogs name, and he kept coming every day after that. I kept finder letters addressed to me that were obviously from him. They said a lot of things I didn’t know, but nothing that could ever make me move past what he did. I moved before I ever saw him face to face. A few of his friends reached out after my second move telling me about some erratic behavior of his going on but I ignored them too. Not my man not my problem.

I’ve been asked on some dates but no thanks. I’m too fragile and trusting for the fucked up morals some of these men have. There’s nothing about being in a relationship I miss.

I know I’m probably supposed to say that I hope he gets the help he needs and finds happiness but I don’t. I’ll have life long trauma from what he did so at the least he can have life long regrets.

Most importantly, I found a great group of women that feel like family, and always are there for me. I’m happier than I’ve been in years! I’m just thankful I got out before I got pregnant or married and was tied to him forever. I forget he exists most days now, and I didnt even think it was possible.

I hope this suffices! Thank you Redditors 💗

Edit: I did get tested again and did test positive for Trich, which I did not know existed beforehand. All cleared up now though.

I never did reach out to the other women, mostly because they used our relationship to bond. They all knew he had a girlfriend and some he lied and said we were married. Three of the other women were in committed relationships as well, so whoever social media I could find I did message their boyfriends/husbands.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

For the record, it appears that the parents did inform the museum of the accident when it happened.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

Content warning - mental health issues

1 update - Medium

- 25th August 2024

- 28th August 2024

AITAH for telling my-now-ex-girlfriend that her manic episode was no excuse for her cheating?

I (25m) dated my (now) ex GF (25f) for 2 years. For the most part, things were going great. Although there were issues with her sometimes, usually with fits of anger, it wasn't too bad

Well, all that came crashing to an end when my GF had what was a manic episode. After drinking copious amounts of alcohol on a night out, she had a severe manic episode where she spent $10,000, cheated on me by sleeping with a random stranger and then sending incomprehensible audio messages to me

She was checked into a mental health facility after that episode and diagnosed with BPD. She had long suspected she maybe had this but it had never manifested so intensely. The psychiatrist said she had underwent psychosis, severe mania and had bpd

Since then she was placed on meds and undergoes talking therapy

Shortly after she confessed to me she had cheated and was extremely remorseful, saying she'd never do anything like that. I was shocked by her admission and had to hide my tears. I basically stormed out and went to a hotel by myself for a few days

I then plucked up the courage to confront her. She tried telling me she loves me and that she has a lot of regret for what she did, and that she feels immense shame and that it's because of her sickness. I told her that her mental health issues are not an excuse, that it has nothing to do with that and that she cheated because that's just who she is. I then told her we are finished

She began sobbing uncontrollably, saying she wants to end her life. That really hurt me but I stood firm, I told her that her cheating is her own fault, and it's a reflection of who she is, and that she needs to stop hiding behind her mental issues

Her friends have been messaging me calling me AH and heartless, but I feel they are the ones being heartless. AITAH?

Comments

Mr_Hmmm435

Ex-wife had an episode after first child. Things resolved. 13 years free of major manic episodes. Then it came back in regular cycles. Cycled for another 12 years. Had an affair, asked for a divorce (GRANTED). Married the guy (saved on alimony)

If she doesn’t take her meds regularly then bail out.

cakedtrees420

It‘s not her fault she has BPD. But it‘s her responsibility. Facing the consequences of ones actions is part of that, whatever those may be.

picrequest91

Exactly. Mental health struggles are real, but they don't excuse harmful actions. Accountability is key, and sometimes that means accepting the consequences of those actions, even if it’s painful.

Lionsjunkie

If she had legit manic psychosis she did not know what she was doing. He can feel how he feels but that shit is real and legit BPD 1 with psychotic features is no joke

ixizn

Exactly, if someone is seriously experiencing a different reality in their mind, how is it “blaming it” on their mental illness when that’s a legit explanation for what they’re doing during that. I don’t blame him for breaking up but there’s big misunderstanding of what mania/psychosis is here on a wider level

StrawHatCabnBoy

NTA My sister had BPD and Bipolar and they ultimately led to her death at 24 years old. One time she drank too much at an airport, went manic and it took 7 airport cops to take down this 5 foot 5 inch girl, it is a very serious diagnosis. As someone who lived with someone with this mental illness for almost my whole life, and saw how her relationships and friendships went, I understand you, but her mental illness has everything to do with this. That said, you have 0 obligation to stay, BPD is insanely hard to deal with and things can get very toxic out of nowhere. You can leave and be totally justified, but don’t do it with hate in your heart, she is legitimately mentally ill, with something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

Whenever my sister’s BPD pushed me over the edge my dad would always say “her brain is constantly, inescapably attacking her, if you think it is hard to deal with her, imagine how hard it is to be her.” Have some empathy, but if you cannot handle a SO with BPD, which most normal people cannot and is not your fault, you are in the right to leave before one or both of you get hurt, and physically hurt is on the table with this diagnosis.

**Judgement - Very Mixed overall**

Update - 3 days later

So comments were quite evenly split. Many saying I was NTA, but also many saying I was completely misinformed on mental health

Admittedly, I think I was perhaps a bit ignorant on mental health and how her psychotic and manic episode affected her state. I really contemplated it. My ex has been spamming my messages and begging to talk to me so she can explain.

I thought about it, and the truth is, that while I have a more objective understanding of how her mental health lead her to do what she did, I simply am not feeling empathy for her. My concern right now, is to take care of myself. So I have blocked her on everything and also all her friends. I think this is the best path forward, rather than talking it out with her, as that could go badly for both of us

Comments

Grouchy_Dad_117

Yeah, I'm also ignorant on mental health issues. Doesn't matter the reason behind it though, after cheating I'd be gone.

xanif

I'm bipolar. Cheating while manic comes up not infrequently in the community.

Mental illness isn't our fault but it is our responsibility and infidelity is a valid deal breaker regardless of mood state.

GanacheImportant8186

Good answer. My wife has had manic and psychotic episodes and, while it's extremely challenging on us both, I try to be understanding of things she does and says during this time. However we both exist and we both have the right to be treated with respect and there are lines that if she crossed that not even 'mental health episode' would excuse her for, even if I knew it wasn't really 'her' or her rational self who carried out the action.

Certain_Accident3382

Yeah, mania is a bitch and not the happy happy sunshine rainbow shitting unicorns that HollyWood portrays.

But you absolutely need to take care of you first.

The consequences of her actions are something she has to live with, even after a manic episode. If we're lucky, it gives her reason to more openly and honestly talk with her doctor and seek the right therapies and medications that will work best for her to minimize episodes, instead of just what slaps a bandaid on it.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The Context:

Concord is a hero-shooter game developed by Firewalk Studios and published by Sony. Upon release, the game was met with lukewarm reviews. Some criticized its play mechanics and uninspired characters, while others accused the game of being “woke.”

Since release, the game has failed to find much of a player base, with player counts hovering in the low hundreds.

News broke today that the game would be taken offline and Sony will be issuing refunds for all purchases.

reacts to this news with a variety of opinions.

The Drama:

Lets make a woke game that people will….. ANNNND its gone!

You people are dumb as rocks.

the game didn't fail because it was "woke" it failed because it's a $40 hero shooter, in an over saturated market, with terrible character designs that make the whole game look bland.

stop shoving your culture war into everything, its tiring.

Out the box it lost humongous sales potential from being woke, if u didnt follow that then thats on you.

Also they put their politics in gaming, I didnt put mine in theirs…

Go woke go broke

I found the dumbest take!

Dumb? It’s true. Concord just proved it by shutting down lmao

But many "woke" games are successful. It’s not a proof, you just stating an opinion.

Lol. No. First, you have no idea what the word "proof" actually means.

It's the fact that the game is boring, uninspired, and launched late into an incredibly crowded market.

Not the fact that there is a woman or human like create of a different color featured.

For real. It’s crazy how Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate 3, TLOU, heck even Elden Ring, went full broke

Shouldn’t it instead be: make a bad game go broke?

There's a difference between games that happen to be woke and woke that happens to be a game.

It’s almost like DEI being a main focus was a disaster

What does that even mean???

It's so insufferable that you guys pretend like you don't know what's going on. You know exactly what he means on top of how games were not always like this.

Go outside, stop politicizing my video games

I didn't "politicize" anything in my comment. Once again, being disingenuous and gaslighting is annoying. You should just stop.

No, I'm not going to explain why you are being disingenuous because you already know why...

[Continued:]

You're weird 😐

Thank you.

Want to meet up?

By no means!

That’s what happens when you spend 8 years pumping money into something for a market that may not even exist anymore after those 8 years.

Market never existed. It’s always been a loud minority of the population with an online presence, and cancel culture making them seem more powerful than in reality.

200 million dollars later and the same minority isn’t as popular as it seems hmmmm. It’s a big wake up call to the gaming industry.

It’s always been a loud minority of the population with an online presence, and cancel culture making them seem more powerful than in reality.

lol wtf are you talking about?

He's making a shitty woke-spotting argument that the game was bad bc mUh dIvErSiTy and not because of its outdated pricing model and weird design choices.

Acting like that didn’t contribute to its downfall is straight insanity 😂 keeping your head in the sand to not see way worse games with more purchases and players than concord.

[…]

The secret sauce is discrimination against lgbtqia

[…]

I think we know what I’m talking about here. LGBTQIAUO community forcing their agenda into every segment of society whether it’s wanted or not.

And how is that relevant to what happened with Concord? Y'all are seriously deranged with how obsessed you are about these things. Get a more interesting life.

The Flairs:

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/ posting in r/AITAH

Last update - Medium

 - 26th February 2024

 - 4th March 2024

 - 3rd May 2024

 - 3rd September 2024

Original:

My (32F) father (60s) has been married to "Sasha" (fake name, 40s) for almost a decade. I was already an adult when they started seeing each other, so I never had much of a relationship with her. That said, Sasha was nice and thoughtful (though a bit annoying at times), and I never had any problems with her.

I now have a husband (34M) and two kids (9M and 4F). Sasha is very fond of my children, especially my daughter. That became very suffocating pretty quickly, so we started setting some boundaries. She never overstepped them.

In January, my father and Sasha decided to go on a trip to Disney World, and invited us to join them. We decided to go to celebrate our son's 9th birthday.

I quickly regretted coming along. Sasha spent the entire trip fussing over my daughter in ways that overstepped almost every boundary we'd set. Examples include:

• Sasha bought a Minnie ears tiara. She wanted me to buy my daughter an identical one so they could "match." My daughter didn't like the tiara, so I bought her a Donald Duck hat instead. Sasha got her the tiara anyway, and was upset that she didn't want to wear it.

• My father and Sasha went shopping in between parks. I told them not to buy my kids anything, as we still had shopping to do and didn't want to risk making our bags too heavy. Still, Sasha returned with 5 bags of clothing for my daughter (and 2 for my son), saying she "couldn't resist it."

• My daughter wanted a Belle costume to wear at the parks, as that's her favorite princess. Sasha tried to convince us to get her an Ariel costume instead, because that's her favorite. I explained that we never watched The Little Mermaid at home because my daughter is scared of Ursula.

• Sasha insisted on taking dozens of pictures with my daughter in front of the castle at Magic Kingdom. She also took some with my son, but not nearly as many.

• She tried to convince us to take our daughter to Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique. We refused because the prices are crazy and we'd already bought her the Belle costume. She offered to pay, but we held our ground. I later found out Sasha tried to make a reservation anyway, but there was no availability.

• When we took our daughter to Slinky Dog Dash (her first roller coaster), Sasha tried to sit next to her. My daughter wanted to sit with me, so we switched. She tried to do the same thing in other attractions.

• At the Muppets theater, she tried to get my daughter to sit in her lap. Sasha also tried to pick her up while we met some of the characters.

There were more instances. The final straw for me, however, was the last park day of the trip. We were at Magic Kingdom. My husband suffered a minor injury and I had to take him to the first aid station. The kids wanted to go to the Peter Pan ride, so my dad and Sasha offered to take them in the meantime.

However, according to my father, the line was too long. So instead, Sasha suggested the Little Mermaid ride, assuring my kids Ursula wasn't on it. Actually, there's a pretty big Ursula animatronic there. My daughter was still sobbing and hugging her brother when we reunited.

When we flew back home, I told my father that we'd no longer take our children on trips with Sasha due to her behavior. He got extremely angry. He said his wife loved my kids, thought about what they'd like to do at every moment of the trip, and that we should be grateful to have her in our lives.

I lost my temper at that. I told him Sasha was a "fucking creep", and that they should be grateful I was still okay with them even seeing my children after her actions during the trip. We ended up having a huge fight after that.

It's been weeks since we returned home, and my father is still angry at me and my husband. Sasha has texted me a few times. She says she's sorry if she "made me uncomfortable", but that she loves my kids and hoped to use the trip to spend more time with them.

To be honest, I don't think I'm the AH here. But I do think I might have overreacted. I believe there's a chance Sasha's actions were motivated by love and she truly did have good intentions.

AITA?

Comments

Significant_Cat_3

NTA you set some pretty clear boundaries that Sasha kept crossing the entire trip. Even your daughter seems to not be particularly receptive towards her. Also your son can probably pick up on this favoritism, and that’s not good for him either.

I don’t mean to do armchair psychology, but this reads like Sasha has always wanted a young daughter and is using your’s to live vicariously through. Hence why she kept trying to push things that your daughter doesn’t like onto her (Tiara, Little Mermaid ride, etc.)

OOP: My son doesn't like Sasha. I'm not sure why, but I think he gets that she favors my daughter. He's also very protective of his sister, so her discomfort could also be a reason.

1d0n1kn0

he definitely can, when I was 5 i could tell my grandma favorited my younger sister. not to mention it was HIS birthday and his sister was getting loads of attention and presents, itd be harder for him not to notice, at least he has the maturity to understand its not his sisters fault
 
OP: I will say that he got more birthday presents than his sister got "Disney souvenirs", but no thanks to Sasha. When they gave him one of those Happy Birthday buttons, Sasha tried to ask for an extra one for my daughter so she "wouldn't feel left out." I asked for a First Visit one instead, but that was how Sasha behaved during his birthday.

Beautiful-Story2811

NTA, she sounds exhausting. But...BUT... she also doesn't seem like a truly awful person.

"....so, we started setting some boundaries. She never overstepped them."

Question: Does she have children of her own? She probably sees your kids as a chance to play 'Mommy' if she's never had kids. She may not even be aware of exactly how intrusive she's being. Looks like there's a 20 year age gap between she and your dad... she probably thought she'd be okay with not having kids (I'm guessing your dad may have told her he's done having babies). But your little ones...especially your daughter... may have just stirred up those feelings and she's trying to compensate. I still don't think you're TA. But maybe have an honest talk with her...just you and her... and try and show a little grace.

My apologies if you've done all that already and she's still being a pill.

OP: You're right about a lot of things. She doesn't have kids, my dad doesn't want more children. And while she's defined herself as childfree before, she's also told me she'd always wondered what having a daughter would be like.

My husband and I started setting boundaries because the situation was really bad when my daughter was younger. She'd wake her up from her naps when she visited, post pictures of her on social media without our approval and complain about almost every parenting decision we'd make because it "wasn't how she'd do it."

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 1 week later

Hey, everyone. I'm ready to give you an update.

I read your comments and came to the following conclusion: as much as Sasha's behavior towards my children angered me and freaked me out, calling her a "creep" was the wrong reaction to have.

That said, I think it's best for my family to distance itself from Sasha for the time being. And at the very least, my previous decision to avoid future trips with her based on the Disney trip is still the best course of action.

Sasha's pushiness, tendency to override my and my husband's parenting and blatant favoritism towards my daughter were much worse when the kids were younger. After my daughter's birth, she began to focus too much attention on her and almost none on my son. I gave more examples of that in the comments on my original post. That's the reason we set boundaries in the first place.

Her fixation on my daughter also bothers me. When we had the boundary conversation with my father and Sasha, she told us that she'd always wondered what having a daughter would be like. She'd also defined herself as childfree before, so I was never certain what to think of that. Either way, that reassured me and my husband that we were doing the best for our kids.

Those boundaries had never been overstepped. Then we went on the Disney trip, and most of them were completely ignored. Many of you pointed out that she might have gotten carried away, or that "Disney is exciting and she wanted to make sure my kids had the best experience", etc. There are two things I'll say to that:

The first is that whatever Sasha's reasons were, she still overstepped our boundaries. When we first set those, we told her that doing so would have consequences. Disney or not, I don't see a reason to make an exception.

Secondly, she wasn't trying to ensure my kids had the best experience. She was pushing them to fulfill her fantasy of what their Disney trip should look like. She repeatedly ignored my children's wishes in favor of her own, despite them both being very clear about what they wanted and didn't want.

Sasha also continually favored my daughter (including during my son's birthday) and fussed over her in ways that made her uncomfortable. And I still haven't forgiven the Little Mermaid thing. My daughter is a bit shy and takes a while to open up to most people, so knowing her trust was broken like that angers me in ways I can't describe.

To put it in simpler terms, my children aren't props. And whoever treats them as such will, at the very least, be put in time out.

I called my father and Sasha on Saturday. I apologized for calling Sasha a creep, but told them that we needed some time apart. They won't see my family until my younger sister's birthday in late April. If that goes well, they'll be invited to my daughter's 5th birthday party in May. After that, we'll slowly work on reestablishing contact. I also said that if they overstepped our boundaries again, the consequences would be more dire.

My father didn't take it well. I don't care. Sasha sent me a text with more apologies, followed by a request to "at least" FaceTime my kids every now and then. I said no.

And to those who said my "controlling behavior" ruined the trip: my kids had an amazing time at Disney World. They're both still talking about it. My daughter keeps asking us to put her pictures with the characters she met up on the wall, and my son says he had the best birthday ever.

I think that's it! Thank you for your advice and support on my first post.

Comments

tonyrains80

These are your kids and your rules. Period.

canyonemoon

You protected your children and that's the best thing you can do in any situation. I'm glad they're still talking about the trip, despite favoritism and the Ursula animatronic, which means you and your husband managed to outshine all of that with wonderful memories.

For the possible reconciliation: everyone can act normal for a day (the birthday in late April), especially if they know there's a goal post on that day, it's the behavior over time that counts. If they're still messaging you, requesting face time calls, and calling you unreasonable despite you clearly saying you want NC, you could begin a tally; one point for each request and when it's X amount of points, they'll have their timeout extended because they obviously don't understand boundaries yet.

OP: That's great advice. We don't want to go NC, but we will if our boundaries are disrespected.

Knowing my father, a tally wouldn't be well received. I'm doing my best to avoid turning this into a (bigger) fight, but that kind of system would probably make things worse. It might be worth a shot, though. I'll talk to my husband about it.

ForeignLynx3853

You don't need to tell them. Just count for yourselves and put them on timeout.

If they ask why you can provide a full list of overstepped boundaries.

And to be honest... For me Sasha IS a creep. A mild one but her behaviour is creepy. But that's just on me...

OP: Oh yeah, I think it's creepy too. I apologized because it really wasn't the word I should have used (and she is a mild one), but I still think it applies.

Birony88

Ask your daughter how Sasha makes her feel. If she expresses discomfort, you know what you need to do.

A bit of a story time. When I was 8, my parents divorced. Shortly after, my dad took me to visit his mother in Florida; the first time I'd seen her since my literal birth. She arranged a trip to Disney World for us, my first and only trip there.

Somehow, Dad met up with an old girlfriend of his at his mom's. I have no idea how, because as far as I know, he had never lived in Florida himself. She invited herself into our vacation. The woman made my 8 year old self supremely uncomfortable. She tried to insert herself into my life as a replacement mother, bad mouthed my own mom and tried to convince me she didn't love me and that she herself should be my new mom, even slept with me on the pull out couch (which really freaked me out). My dad didn't realize any of this, he was so clueless, and I didn't know how to tell him what was happening. This was supposed to be my bonding time with my grandmother, and this strange woman was ruining it.

She went with us to Disney World, and she tainted that trip in much the way Sasha tainted yours. She was so overbearing, and made everything about the "relationship" between her and I. I didn't really get to enjoy much of that day. There were even a few times when I was so overwhelmed I broke down in tears, like your daughter. The excuse was that I was afraid of the rides, rides that she pressured me into going on, but her behavior contributed to my meltdowns, as did my sleepless nights with that woman on the couch.

My experience is not identical to yours, but I hope it offered a child's perspective of such a situation. Your daughter may not like all of the attention Sasha was giving her, but may not be able to articulate it, or may be afraid to. Sit her down and talk to her about it, tell her it's okay to tell you anything, and ask her how the experience made her feel.

OP: Thank you for sharing that. It's always been clear that my daughter was uncomfortable with Sasha's behavior, which is why we made so many efforts to reinforce our boundaries. Timid or not, she was very vocal about what she wanted, be it our company (not Sasha's) or specific rides and souvenirs.

In spite of that, I know we didn't shelter our daughter from everything. She's only 4, so I know the situation was a lot for her to process and she can't articulate her feelings as well as her brother can. But she's not looking forward to seeing Sasha anytime soon, and I intend to respect that.

2nd Update - 1 month later

Last time I posted here, I mentioned that my father and Sasha wouldn't see my children until my younger sister's birthday. The party took place last weekend, and we didn't attend.

These two months of NC worked fine, but not great. My father respected my wishes, to my surprise, but Sasha kept trying to find ways to talk to my children. She'd call me under the guise of needing to ask me something, only to later say, "by the way, are the kids around? I want to say hi!"

Every time she tried that, I'd remind her of what I'd told her back in March. This must have happened almost a dozen times, which was enough for my husband and I to start debating on skipping the party.

After speaking to our kids, we decided not to go. They both said they missed my father, but clearly didn't want to see Sasha. We thought about attending and just distancing them from her while there, but risking making our children uncomfortable wasn't worth it. My son even asked if we could see their aunt somewhere else, without Sasha around.

My husband and I explained the situation to my sister. She was upset, but mostly because she hadn't seen the kids in a while. We all went to dinner at her favorite restaurant the day after her party.

I also called my father and told him we wouldn't go to the birthday party. He reacted better than I expected, but we still had a short fight about it. He claimed that I had promised we'd let Sasha see the kids after two months, called me unfair and said he was "entitled" to have a relationship with his grandchildren (I immediately denied that).

Though I tried to sugarcoat it at first, I eventually gave him the truth: my kids don't want to see his wife, and I won't force them to.

My father and I had a long talk. I told him how much Sasha's actions at the Disney trip upset my children, as well as how uncomfortable me and my husband felt. I admitted I don't trust his wife at all, and I don't think I ever truly will.

He said that while he still thought I was overreacting, he understood I wanted to protect my kids. My dad also told me about how these two months of NC were for them.

Apparently, Sasha started talking about my kids (mostly my daughter) a lot more than usual. She'd mention things and places she thought they would like. My father was aware of one of the times she called me, but thought it was a one-time thing. She wanted to give my daughter a gift at my sister's birthday party (he said he didn't know why).

At one point, she told him she wanted to plan another family vacation with the kids, even though I told them they're not traveling with Sasha anymore. Learning all of that just made me more certain that I can't trust this woman around my children.

For now, I intend to remain LC with my father and NC with Sasha. My daughter told me she wanted her grandpa at her birthday party a few weeks from now, so I told him that he was invited, but Sasha wasn't. He agreed.

To be honest, I don't trust my father after all of this. I'm allowing him to come because that party will take place at my home, which is easier for me to control. If he tries to bring Sasha, they'll both be kicked out, and it will take a long time for me to consider letting him near my kids again.

My father hasn't told me how his wife is reacting to this. My sister told me that during her party, Sasha asked her to tell me she wanted to talk. I'm not reaching out to her, nor do I plan to respond if she attempts to contact me. Both me and my husband have blocked her.

My children are doing great. They still talk about how much fun they had at Disney. My daughter's been "saving money" (putting coins in her piggy bank) for us to go back.

On a completely different note, I'm pregnant again! This was completely unplanned (I always said I wanted two kids at most, and the third would have to be a HUGE accident), but my husband and I are ecstatic. I'm still in the first trimester, so not a lot of people know. We're brainstorming ways to tell our kids.

Overall, I'm happy with my life right now. And as much as I wish this Sasha situation had never happened, I feel like a better parent after dealing with it. I have never been more confident in my abilities to protect my children than I am now.

I don't think I'll update again anytime soon. Once again, thank you for all the support you've given me. I wish you the best.

Comments

Dalton402

I'll get the worst part out of the way first. Your dad was always going to support his wife.

However, God, you did the right thing! What Sasha is doing is major overcompensating for something. If she treated all your kids the same, it would be one thing, but her fixation on your daughter is creepy. I don't think you should have apologised for it.

I wonder if there is some trauma in Sasha's life involving a daughter that she hasn't admitted to.

OP: If there is any trauma, I can sympathize with her, but I can't let her use my daughter as a therapy pet.

I hate to admit it, but I agree my father's always going to support her. I really hope this attempt at LC with him works.

Lazuli_Rose

Sorry, but I think Sasha is a creep. I'm sure you already plan to do this but I would keep my exact due date secret so Sasha and pop don't show up at the hospital. Don't tell anyone but whoever is going to watch your two little ones that you are in labor or at least make sure they won't slip up and tell Sasha.

OP: Yeah, I'm not telling anyone. My kids will probably be watched by either my mom or my MIL, neither of whom would tell Sasha anything.

Last Update - 3 months later

First of all, my father didn't bring Sasha to my daughter's birthday party back in May. I didn't really think he would (I'd made it very clear I wouldn't tolerate that), but I'd be lying if I said your comments didn't make me a little paranoid.

Secondly, I've just entered my third trimester, and the baby will be here in November. The kids are ecstatic. I'm having another girl, but my husband and I are not sharing the sex until she's born. This has nothing to do with our families, it's just something we've also done with our first two. Everyone, including Sasha, knows I'm pregnant. We announced it a couple months ago. I had no problem with my father telling her (though he did ask if he could). I didn't hear much about her reaction, but according to my father, she was happy for me.

My children still don't want to see Sasha, and I'm still not forcing them to. I've unblocked her and put her on mute instead, but she hasn't made any attempts to contact me. We've continued meeting my father without his wife, and I think it's been working out. My relationship with him isn't fantastic, but it's much better than it was earlier this year.

Last week, I saw Sasha for the first time in months. My cousin threw a party at her place. My husband and I attended, as did my father and Sasha. I knew she'd be there, but since the kids weren't with us (son had a sleepover; daughter stayed with my mom), I didn't really have anything against seeing her.

They arrived some time after we did. My husband and I spoke with them for a few minutes, and it was less awkward than I expected. Sasha asked me about the baby's sex, and I told her we weren't telling anyone (which, again, is what we've always done). 

About 20 minutes later, my father told me they had to go. I thought it was weird that they were leaving so soon, but I didn't think much of it at the time. He called me a few days ago, and we spoke for a long time. My father is difficult to talk to, so the following is what I gathered from the conversation.

He said they left early because Sasha was holding back tears after she saw me. She was sobbing by the time they got to the car.

They later had a discussion about it, and Sasha admitted she wanted kids. She married my dad knowing he didn't, but hoped he would change his mind. Apparently, when my son was born, Sasha tried to drop "I want one" hints to my father. He didn't notice it, so she gave up.

According to my father, Sasha told him she loved my kids equally, but my daughter was "special", because she always imagined herself as a girl mom. That's also the reason why she became such a suffocating presence when my daughter was a baby. 

When my husband and I started setting boundaries, Sasha realized she was overstepping and agreed to abide by them. To her credit, I think she did a mostly okay job back then, but the favoritism was still obvious enough that my son noticed it.

The trip we took was a turning point because Sasha's dream of having a daughter included taking her to Disney World and having her do all the things she liked to do there when she was young. She told my father that having my daughter there was so exciting that she forgot everything I'd said about not overstepping. Sasha wanted a mother-daughter trip, and tried to use my child for it.

Sasha said she regretted her actions during the Disney trip, but only because she lost access to my children due to them. And seeing me at the party, "all pregnant and pretty" (my father's words, not sure she actually said that), was what drove her over the edge.

I remember reading some comments theorizing that this was what was going on, but I still didn't really expect this.

My father said he was telling me all this because his wife wasn't doing well, and he'd understand if I wanted to keep my kids away from her. Didn't expect that, either.

I don't know what the future of their relationship will be, and I don't think my father does either. All I know is that if Sasha still wants to have kids, it almost definitely will not be with my father.

Before all this, I was pondering about my third child's future in relation to Sasha. Now, I sincerely don't want her to be a part of my baby's life. This isn't a final decision, but I've been speaking to my husband about it, and he agrees with me.

I don't think she's a bad person. I got some "baby-stealer" comments on my previous update, but I don't think that's what's happening here, either. But if the Disney trip proved anything to me, it's that Sasha is willing to be extremely selfish and disrespectful to get what she wants, even when my kids are involved.

A couple months ago, my husband and I had a conversation with our son about the subject. He told us he dislikes Sasha for two reasons: she favors his sister and she doesn't listen to them. Honestly, that's all I need to know.

Looking back at my own childhood, I feel like I was never allowed to have boundaries. I was always expected to put my schedules and preferences aside for others. It's important to me that my children don't go through that. If they don't want to see Sasha, they don't have to.

I think that's all I want to say here. I'm doing well (I actually got some great news from work recently!), my kids are thriving, and I'm excited to meet my third baby. Again, thank you guys.

Comments

MedusaStone

Congrats on your second daughter! As for the rest, I don't think I'd call Sasha dangerous, but I think you're making the right choice in not allowing her around your kids.

OP: Thank you! I don't think she's dangerous either, but I don't want her to keep treating my children like this. I remember that during the Disney trip, there were man instances in which my kids were clearly uncomfortable with her behavior, but Sasha would continue to overstep. The way she acted after we went LC earlier this year also freaked me out.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OOP. OOP is

Originally posted to

[New Updates]: Am I the jerk for resenting my dad because of his new family and for seeing my stepfather as a better dad than him?

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Trigger Warnings: child neglect, deadbeat dad, verbal abuse, emotional manipulation, infidelity, sexism

RECAP

: February 16, 2024

When I was younger I had a very good relationship with my dad. My parents divorced when I was a infant, but I spent weekdays with my mom and weekends with my dad. My dad and I were like best friends, and we had a simple routine every weekend where we'd get five Redbox movies to finish during the weekend, we'd go fishing, we'd play soccer, and we'd bike to this little secret playground near the zoo.

Something else I was used to was my dad always having new girlfriends that never lasted more than two weeks. The only one who lasted longer (a woman I really liked who lasted two years) left my dad when I was ten. But my relationship with my dad was the same as ever until I was twelve and my dad met his now wife. This woman has two kids, one older and one younger than me. They moved into my dad's apartment after only two weeks.

My room was already small, but my tiny mattress and three small plastic drawers were shoved into the corner of the room to make space for the daughters' bunk bed and dresser. Before I knew it, they started putting my bed in a closet until I came to visit and often would forget to take it out at all. When my dad moved into a bigger house, the older sister got her own room while I had to share one with the younger sister every weekend. The three small drawers I had were soon just one drawer because the little sister wanted the other two for her toys.

Slowly, I started visiting my dad less and less. Then everything went especially wrong when my dad got his girlfriend pregnant after one year. They got married and I didn't know that for a whole month because he didn't even tell me. I also didn't know my baby half-sister was born until weeks after she came home from the hospital. To make his new family happy, he started spoiling them and stopped paying child support for me and my mom. His wife is a jobless gold-digger who only cooks and cleans and shops, her older daughter is having her college paid for by my dad, and the younger daughter is the definition of a 10-year-old Sephora kid. As for my half-sister, she is still a toddler but is clearly spoiled and hates the word "No". The routine I used to have with my dad is now dead.

As for my stepdad, he's been with my mom since I was five. Apparently (though I don't remember it) I once called him "Dad" and because of that my dad told me I shouldn't love than man like a dad because he's not really my father. Apparently, that's why I started acting like I hated my stepdad. I never knew why I felt that way about him since he'd never been anything but good to me, and in the last few years I've felt much closer to him. He feels like the dad that my birth-father should try to be.

Over time, my dad has started to treat me differently. He rants to me about his political beliefs and conspiracy theories about aliens and stuff. He also brags about his new business and his new family, and if I ever try to share anything with him he gets annoyed and shuts me up before continuing with his stories. It's like now he sees me as a buddy rather than his freaking daughter. Also, it was during these last few years that I learned the reason he and my mom divorced was not because they weren't right for each other but rather because my father cheated on my mom while visiting his family in Canada.

I am now fifteen, and I have become a completely different person than the one my birth-dad remembers. I no longer love the beach or soccer and I now love music and reading and writing. I have written and published two books since 2022, and am writing the third in my series. My stepdad supports my dreams and loves me so much that he brags about me to friends and family and calls me his daughter. My stepdad has an actual daughter who I love like a real sister, though she lives up north with her boyfriend and I don't see her often. Still, though, I love them more than I love my birth-dad and half-sister who I'm actually related to.

My dad blames me for never calling, though because of how he's treated me lately I don't feel like I owe it to him. I also go months at a time without visiting him now because I no longer feel comfortable at that house. Especially since the bed I sleep on over there is literally considered as their "guest bed". In my birth-dad's house, I am a guest.

Because of all of this, I resent my dad. I haven't told anyone about this so no one is calling me a jerk, but I'm wondering if I am because my dad is in love with his new family and I'm wondering if it's a bad thing I'm not happy for him.

Am I the jerk?

Comments

JustAnotherSaddy: Not the jerk.

Your dad failed you. He’s the only reason why you don’t have a relationship with him. Glad your step dad is good to you. Hope your calling him dad now.

The_Balaram: Absolutely NOT the jerk. Your father failed on his only task of being exactly THAT, a FATHER, so you are on your right to cut any connection you want with him.

: May 18, 2024

Hello. So, I made a post a few months ago talking about how my dad has basically stopped treating me like his daughter now that he has a new family. Not much has happened since, but here's an update anyway:

So, since I made the initial post, I've only visited my dad's house once and, safe to say, I truly am nothing more than an uncomfortable guest in that house.

I should start off by saying that every time I spend a few months without going to his house, my dad tries to play all innocent and calls me on Fridays to ask when he should pick me up. I never answer because he always calls me when I'm in a class or busy with studying, so he'll call my mom. But because he never asks me in advance, I tend to have plans on weekends with my cousins, friends, or just to work on writing since I am still working on my third book and it takes a lot of focus that I can't get in his house.

Actually, I'm now just gonna call him Eric. He's honestly not been as much of a "dad" figure to me as my stepdad has.

Anyway, it was my mom who had decided I would go over to his house. Despite the fact that Eric hasn't paid child support in over 2 years now and I hate going to his house, my mom says I should just visit from time to time to keep him from getting the court involved. She confuses me, sometimes saying that he's a deadbeat man, but also sometimes saying that he's my loving dad who deserves my respect.

However, under the circumstances, I'm fairly certain that nothing would be any different since I never visit him and he doesn't pay child support anyway. In fact, once on Christmas, he bought a bunch of new gifts for his family and wrapped them up and everything, but weeks before Christmas when I was visiting, he drove to Walmart so his wife could do groceries and he handed me $200 and said, "Merry Christmas. Buy yourself something and the rest can be child support or whatever." I bought two books, but the rest of the money that was supposedly 'child support' was nothing near to the amount he owed.

I have told my mom I would be happier if he lost custody of me and my stepdad adopted me, but she thinks that's too extreme and says, "He's still your dad. He deserves your respect and love".

Now, about the weekend I visited him, from the minute Eric picked me up, all he talked about was his new family. He talked about the older sister and her boyfriend, the younger sister and the shopping she does, and the my half-sister who can now talk a little bit. I stayed silent the whole ride until he asked me a question about my school, and when I answered his question he got frustrated and went into a conspiracy theory rant. I tuned him out for the rest of the drive after that.

The rest of the weekend wasn't any better. The older sister did what she always does when I visit and locked herself in her room, only coming out when I left the house or when I was in the bathroom so she wouldn't have to talk to me. And the younger sister had a friend of hers over and her friend had her stuff tossed on my bed and was sitting on it because it's the bed she sleeps in when she has sleepovers.

Eric's wife did a poor job of hiding how bothered she was by me visiting. More than once, she has been completely shocked I was visiting because Eric didn't tell her so she couldn't disagree.

And also, most of the weekend consisted of Eric taking me and my half-sister to a playground so she could run around with her friends, and I sat on a bench to read but I didn't have much time to myself since Eric kept leaving and told me to keep an eye on my half-sister who is a wild and fussy kid. I am not a babysitter, and while I am good with kids, that does not mean I enjoy putting my own time aside to look after them when they're not my responsibility.

I had to spend two days in either pure chaos or discomfort, and I had a talk with my mom about me not wanting to go over there anymore. She said that's fine and she won't force me to go anymore, but since she's said that before, I don't believe her. I don't have anyone to really talk to about this, and this whole situation is stressing me out because I don't remember my dad ever being as happy as he is now, and I still sometimes feel like I should be happy for him.

I don't know what to do, and any advice on anything I could do would be helpful. Everyone who's commented on my last post so far has said I'm not the jerk and that Eric isn't acting the way a dad should, but he still reaches out from time to time and says I'm his baby girl who he loves. Honestly, I almost cry whenever he says that because it reminds me of how we used to be.

Am I overthinking all of this or overreacting? What should I do? Am I the jerk here because I'm not happy for my dad?

Comments

CatchHefty5872: You should tell your mum the more she forces you to go to your dad's the more it's going to ruin your relationship with her as she's not listening to what you want and how you feel.

You should also tell her you no longer trust what she says as she has told you before that she will no longer force you into going but she does it anyway.

If you can't talk to your mum, have a one on one chat with your stepdad and see if he can help when it comes to your mum.

: May 19, 2024

Hello, everyone. It's only been a couple of days since my last post. Since then, I have taken the advice most of you have given me and I talked to my mom about how I don't want to keep being forced by her to visit Eric (my sperm donor, as most of you referred to him as).

Long story short, I'm not 100% sure she won't continue to send me over to Eric's house, but she did wind up sending him long texts, chewing him out for not treating me right and telling him to step up and pay his child support. He didn't answer her though, so I followed some other advice and wrote him a long text myself that detailed how I felt about his treatment of me the last few years.

The thing is, as soon as I sent that text, he called me to yell at me and called me spoiled and overdramatic. He said it's my fault we don't have a relationship since I never visit or talk to him anymore, and because I mentioned the unpaid child support, he said that I was only reaching out to him for money.

I nearly cried during that phone call and wound up just hanging up on him. He sent some angry texts to my mother as well. But later that day, he left a voicemail on my phone saying, "Money is kind of tight for me right now. I'm completely broke. You know I love you, right?" The thing is that I know that's a lie because I'm always seeing my younger step-sister make Tik-Tok videos showing off the Sephora and other expensive crap he buys her all the time.

I think I'm done trying. And some of you suggested asking my stepdad for help. I wish I could, but when I asked my mom again if he could adopt me, she said something that absolutely crushed me. Apparently, my stepdad himself said he doesn't feel like he should adopt me. My stepdad is a very kind and sympathetic man, but he's also extremely unconfrontational and thinks it would be like a slap in the face to Eric if he adopted me.

Also, because I noticed some confusion about this in the comments on my last update, the reason my parents divorced was because he cheated, but it wasn't with his current wife. My parents split up when I was still basically an infant, and Eric lived in Canada where he jumped from girlfriend to girlfriend there before he moved down here and continued to jump from girlfriend to girlfriend. When I was 12, he met and knocked up his wife, Alejandra, and married her without telling me till a month after their courthouse wedding.

Also, some of you asked how old I am. I am fifteen. It feels ridiculous that I have this stress on me at my age, and I can't really talk to anyone about it. I can't talk to my stepdad because he's always working and I'm only ever with him when my mom is there too, and I don't like talking to her because she always tells me that I'm too young to really feel how I feel.

The last time I tried to discuss my mental health with my mom, I asked her if I could start going to therapy and she said that therapists are dumb and that I can just talk to her or pray to God if anything is wrong. I'm not super religious, and talking to her about anything serious makes me deeply uncomfortable. It's not that I don't love her, since she is my mom after all, but she's pretty intense and intimidating.

My dad has not reached out to me again since his voicemail. Frankly, I don't want to even thing about him for a long while now If he suddenly realizes how badly he's screwed up with me and apologizes, then maybe I'll try to rebuild our relationship.

As for my stepdad, he may not want to adopt me, but he still calls me his daughter (never just his step-daughter) and I truly feel loved by him. I love his parents like they're my own grandparents, and his whole family is so warm and loving. I might make another update if anything else happens, but for now I'm just going to focus on school and my books. Maybe now that I understand that Eric really doesn't care that much about me anymore, I can finally focus on finishing my third book.

I dedicated my first book to him, and I honestly don't regret it. I dedicated that book to the dad he used to be. It's not like he'll ever read that book since he doesn't think it's smart that I want to be a writer, but I don't care. I'm done.

Thank you to everyone who gave me advice and told me I wasn't the jerk. I feel so much better with those reassurances. Thank you.

Comments

** Tiny_Dancer97:** I'd reply that maybe he'd stop being broke if he wasn't spoiling his new family and ignoring his obligations to his actual daughter. And tell him that honestly he hasn't acted like my dad in years so let's just stop pretending and he can be happy with his replacements because I'm done being ignored and walked on by someone who obviously doesn't want me there.

JezzLandar: You say your 'father' sent you a text saying "you know I love you, don't you?". You should respond : No. No I don't know this at all. I know you say you do, but you have never shown me this love. Love isn't just a word you can throw at me as you'd throw a bone to a dog. Love is a feeling of support and safety. It's a deep felt knowledge of total acceptance. It's the tissue when I cry, the back rub when I am sad or hurt.

It's that wink at a shared joke and the hug of joy and glorious celebration. That, daddy dear, is love. That is what I both expect and need from you. As things stand, you are a horrible disappointment and a terrible father.

----NEW UPDATES----

: May 28, 2024

Hi everyone. It's been about nine days since my last update. I just wanna say, thank you all for your support and advice. There were a lot of people asking similar questions, and it was all a bit overwhelming so I didn't respond to any of them directly, but I will answer those questions here before I get on to the actual reason for this update.

So, a lot of you were saying that I should talk to a school counselor or something. The thing is that I do virtual homeschool, and my mom works from home a lot, so I'm honestly just a bit too scared to try that.

Plus, even if I did talk to my counselor without my mom being around to hear, I really don't trust any adults to keep these kinds of things to themselves. I know that sounds a bit dumb and paranoid, but it's really just how my brain thinks.

A lot of you also said that I should bring up the therapy thing with my mom again, but I know for a fact that won't work. My mom really doesn't believe in therapy and believes that praying to God or having her preach about the bible to me will solve everything. As for my stepdad, I love the guy like a real father, and I see him as my true dad even if he doesn't want to adopt me, but he really is no help with the therapy issue either because he always just agrees with whatever my mom says to avoid arguments.

But I'm doing fine right now though, and I honestly think things are going to start getting better. And I think this because I'm pretty sure my mom is finally gonna file for sole custody and court-ordered child support.

One thing I guess I should've made clear is that my parents sorted out their custody and child-support agreement amongst themselves when they divorced. The agreement is that I spend weekends with my dad, and he pays my mom $100 per week. I'm pretty sure my dad only stuck to that agreement to keep himself looking good until he could finish his U.S. legalization process, since he used to be an immigrant from Canada. Once he was legalized, he stopped paying child support and began spoiling his new fam.

Anyway, I went to my dad's house last weekend. This time, my mom didn't force me, and I actually decided I wanted to go because I wanted to give my dad one last chance. He picked me up from my mom's house, and we didn't get down the street before we were fighting. I was excitedly telling him about a business idea I had where I can make book-boxes and sell books with DIY necklaces and hand-painted bookmarks that match book covers, and he was telling me my idea was stupid and unprofitable and a waste of money and time.

It was an hour-long drive to his house, and he was getting political or angry over every little thing I said. When I told him I was thinking about applying to colleges like Harvard or University of Chicago in the future, he began to yell about all the "dangerous Cuban and Mexican immigrants" in Chicago and began saying that Harvard is a waste of time since it's just as good as any other college, but "rich people go there, which is why it's so famous". I wound up yelling at him that he can't act so high and mighty over non-white immigrants because he was also an immigrant not too long ago. Also, I never understand why it is my dad is always so racist about Hispanic people when my mom and his current wife are both Latinas.

He went on one rant after another, and I was so sick of it that instead of staying quiet like always, I actually argued back. Because of that, my dad spent the whole weekend complaining about my bad attitude. I told my mom about all of this. I think the final nail in the coffin that finally pushed her to want sole custody was when I told her about a rant my dad went on about "the difference between men and women". I wound up memorizing and writing down everything he said and texted it to my mom. I asked her not to talk to him about it, but she was pissed at him.

Here are some of the things he said: "99% of women want to latch onto rich men", "Nearly all women are greedy and unloyal", "Men don't like successful and independent women because they're prideful and bossy", "It's more important for a wife to respect her husband than it is for him to respect her", "It is wrong for wives to make more than their husbands", and so much more. And then he smiled and said, "But you're the exception, pretty girl."

There was so much more that happened just last weekend, like him saying some of my guy friends don't count as real men since some of them are gay, and trying to tell me my summer volunteering opportunity in DR is a bad idea since "the people there are different", even though my mom's side of the family comes from there. I won't list every annoying thing he did, and I'm finally done. This was his last chance, and he blew it. I just want to say I'm pretty sure my mom is not sending me over anymore. She spent all morning looking for my birth certificate because she's wondering if she needs it for court.

She wants to get me full time, and have my dad pay child support. At the moment, he owes a lot of child support, and having him contribute financially would help me so much with preparing for college.

Also, I did not mention the names of my books in the other posts. I didn't share them because I didn't want a bunch of internet strangers seeing my social media tags at the back of the book, but I will share the titles with anyone who DMs me.

I will probably make another update if anything else happens. Hopefully, my next update will be after we've gone to court.

: August 27, 2024

Hey everyone. It's been three months since my last post, and quite a lot of crappy stuff has gone down.

Let me start off by saying thank you to everyone who DM'd me and sent me their support. I know I haven't answered a lot of you, but that's just because the amount of messages is well over 50 and it's kinda overwhelming. But I appreciate all of you. Especially those who have reached out and said that they've gone through similar things. You're all so strong, and I hope you're doing alright.

So, as for the actual update, my mom never took Eric (bio-dad) to court. After three days of listening to my mom and Eric scream at each other over the phone, insulting each other and hearing Eric yell about child support being stupid and a government con, he sent $200 to shut my mom up and now sends that same amount of money randomly.

My mom lied about not forcing me to see him again. I remember we were in the car when Eric called on a random Friday to ask if I wanted to come over, and maybe I was a little bit cold, but my mom got mad at me after I said I didn't want to go. I reminded her that she promised not to force me, and I got yelled at and guilt tripped into calling Eric back and agreeing.

That weekend was awful. Eric tried to fight with me on his sexist beliefs, he complained that I was complaining too much about his inappropriate jokes and stories, and then there was a whole issue about us arguing over women's workout clothes. For some context on that last one, Eric and I saw a couple biking together in his neighborhood, and he commented that the lady was trying to "Get some" because she was in leggings and a crop top.

I told him she was just working out, and that the guy she was with was probably her bf. Plus, she was at least 10 years younger than Eric, but he just said "that doesn't mean she's not trying to get more guys with those clothes. Women only wear workout clothes to attract men and get l@id", and I argued with him. I just gave up when I said, "If I wear workout clothes to exercise and loose weight to be healthier, am I trying to get a man's attention?" and he said yes.

That was that. If there was any respect in me left for that man, it's now completely gone. Plus, he spent the whole weekend disrespecting his wife and insulting her, and despite how awkward I feel around her, I wish I'd known what kind of a person my dad was three years ago so I could've told her to leave him while she had the chance to. No woman deserves a man as awful as my dad.

And I'm sure some of you noticed what I put in the title. I now feel like I no longer have any father figure at all in my life, and here's why. Weeks ago, I got into a bit of a debate with my mom about adopted kids. I told her I didn't want to give birth as an adult and would rather adopt, and she said I shouldn't bring "another person's dirty kids" into my home, and she said it would be hard to love grandkids that don't look like me.

I know it's kinda a weird conversation for a 16yo to have (I recently turned 16 this summer) but it came up anyway. When I asked for my stepdad's opinion, I found what is probably the real reason he doesn't want to adopt me. He told me that he doesn't think adopted kids can be loved the same way as blood kids. He said adopted children aren't as loveable, and I realized that despite calling me his daughter and talking about me and how much he loves me, he doesn't love me as much as his birth kids.

And also, I have lost all respect for him after this past weekend. There's a lot of stuff that happens in my family, and my mom tries to blind me from all of it, so my cousins are my only source of information. I spent the weekend with my oldest cousin (21f) and another one of my cousins (20f) and I ranted to them about what my stepdad had said. After that, they told me something that made me feel more disgusted and betrayed than I've ever felt before.

My stepdad cheated on my mom a few years back. And she stayed with him. The reason my mom divorced Eric was due to his infidelity, but she chose to forgive my stepdad and never told me about it, letting me continue to live with a man who did the same thing that Eric did to her. Eric's cheating ruined my life, and I don't think I can look at my stepdad the same way again.

Before this past weekend, I was laughing with my stepdad and hanging out with him. Now, I'm glad my mom is having me spend time with my grandma because it means I have more time to process all of this before I have to see him again.

I'm a Junior in high school now. I'm planning to work harder on online jobs, applying for scholarships, and more so that I'm ready to get away from all of this as soon as I get to college. If anything else major happens, I'll update again, but this is it for now. I know I'm not the jerk. I'm just the one who has to deal with a ton of unfair crap.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am NOT OOP. OOP is

Originally posted to

,

[New Update]: AITAH If I say "No" to allowing my husband's daughter to come live with us full time?

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Trigger Warnings: bullying, mentions of physical altercations, physical assault, descriptions of torture, harm towards minor with disabilities, possible child abuse

RECAP

: April 10, 2024

I have been married to my husband for 6 years. We have 2 kids together (8m and 4m). Our youngest is special needs.

My husband also has a daughter (12) from his previous relationship. My husband's ex has had primary custody. My husband gets SD on weekends and alternating holidays/birthdays.

This past weekend, my SD asked my husband if she can come live with him fulltime. Her mom recently moved in with her fiance and his kids and there has been some friction with that from what I understand. Nothing nefarious, just new house, new rules, having to share a bedroom etc.

My husband didn't give her an answer either way, he said he would look into it. When he and I were discussing it I had the following objections:

SD and our kids do not get along. It is something we have worked on for years, in and out of therapy - and it just ain't happening. SD resents mine for existing, and is cruel towards my youngest for their disabilities. There have been issues with her bullying. My oldest is very protective of his little brother and hates SD for being mean to his brother. He has started physical altercations with her over it. The truth is that most of the time we have SD, I make arrangements to take the boys to visit their grandparents or husband takes her out of the house for daddy daughter time to avoid conflict. I cannot imagine how living together full time would be for them.

We really don't have room. We have a 4br home. Both my husband and I wfh so we can be a caretaker for my youngest. Due to the nature of his disabilities it is really not feasible for him and my oldest to share a room. It wouldn't be safe or fair for my oldest. My SD's room is used as my wfh office space during the week. I arrange my vacation time and whatnot around her visitation so I can stay out of her space while she is here. I have to take very sensitive phone calls, and I need a closed door when I work so common areas are out and my husband uses our bedroom as his home office so that's out too. We don't currently have room in the budget to make an addition to the house or remodel non livable spaces at the moment.

My husband hears my objections and understands them, but he wants to go for it and figures that everything will eventually work out. He doesn't want his daughter to think he is abandoning her.

And I feel for the girl, it would be awful for your dad to say no when you ask if you can live with him! but I have my own kids to think about too and I just do not believe that her living here is in their best interest at all considering their history and our current living arrangements.

Does saying "no" to this put me in evil step mom territory?

EDIT: For the people who want to make me into an horrible homewrecker to go along with being an evil stepmom...

Sorry to disappoint, but we did not have an affair. My husband and my stepdaughter's mom were never married. They were never in a relationship. They were friends with benefits. They bartended together, would shoot the bull, and would sometimes get drunk and fuck (my husband claims he needed beer googles cause she really isn't his 'type"). When my SD's mom found out she was pregnant she told my husband she was keeping it and asked if he wanted to be in the baby's life. They never lived together, except for a few weeks during the newborn stage to help out.

Yes. I had my first before I married my husband. My husband and I were in a long term relationship when I had a birth control malfunction. My husband and I discussed what we wanted to do, and we both decided we wanted to raise the child. A few days later my husband proposed. I wanted to take time to recover from birth and wait until our kiddo was old enough to pawn him off on the grandparents for the week so husband and I could enjoy our wedding. We didn't get married until my oldest was 2.

EDIT 2: Regarding my youngest son's disabilities, SD's bullying, and my oldest's starting fights since there is a lot of projection and speculation.

My youngest son has both physical and mental disabilities. He uses multiple kinds of medical and therapy equipment. My SD has shoved him out of his wheel chair. She has pinched him hard enough to leave bruises. She has hit his face when he was having trouble verbalizing.

Idgaf if this is "normal" sibling behavior. It is alarming enough to me that I feel it is best for my youngest to spend as little time as possible with her until this behavior completely stops (and I will say it has LESSENED quite a bit. We went through a period of it happening frequently, and it has slowed. The last incident was 2 months ago when SD grabbed my son's wheel chair and aggressively pushed him out of her way because he was blocking the hallway)

One of the times that my son had started an altercation with her, was because she had told my son that his brother was not a real person and that she was going to call the hospital to have him taken away so they could perform experiments to find out what it was. She went into detail about things they would do to him. Like ripping his fingernails out. And yes, my son did lose his temper and hit her. My son was immediately disciplined (loss of tablet time) and we had an age appropriate discussion about how his heart is in the right place to want to protect his little brother but he needs to find an adult when something like that happens. This was not made up. Stepdaughter admitted she said it to my husband when he was able to sit her down and talk with her later in the day. (I am not allowed to discipline or have parenting talks with SD per biomom's wishes)

I am not welcomed to be a part of SD's therapy journey, mostly per biomom's wishes. She does not want me involved. My husband has always been worried about rocking the boat with biomom on these things. So I do not know the extent of what therapeutic treatments she has had. I do know she does go to therapy during the week, and my husband has gone to sessions but it isn't something he is free to discuss with me. So I am in the dark about that.

EDIT 3 - There's someone in the comments who claims to be my sister in law. They are either a troll or are mistaken. My husband is an only child. I don't have a sister in law.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Relevant Comments

Crimsonwolf_83: NTA. It seems your Stepdaughter is the single common factor in the issues with blended families. She only wants to live full time with you because she’s been spoiled by the efforts you make to keep the peace on weekends. She’s delusional

OOP: I do believe she has a very different idea of what living here full time would be than the reality of it, yes.

But she's a kid. When she is here 90% of dad's attention is on her because of the visitation arrangement and interpersonal issues between her and our sons.

I honestly don't think she is going to like the daily grind here anymore than she likes it at her new house.

tooearlytoothink: My concern would be why she wants to leave. Is there more to this story? If she wants to leave because of abuse or neglect, then I think while her moving in may not be a permanent solution, doing nothing would make YTA. That being said, if she wants to leave for something minor like, she wasn't allowed staying up late on a weekend. Then, I think the Bio parents need to ha e a sitodsn and sort it our.

OOP: She is upset that she has to share a room with her soon to be stepsister (step sister is moving out in the fall and just needs it for weekends home and holiday breaks).

And biomom and her partner decided that all kids will follow the same set of rules in their household, so she has new limitations about screen time and more household responsibilities.

Nothing nefarious like abuse or neglect.

OOP on having all spaces for all kids including SD and should prioritize the children’s spaces over her office space

OOP: The house had plenty of room for 3 kids when we bought it.

Unfortunately when my son was 8 months old he had a seizure. And then very quickly after that first seizure 11 more as we raced to the emergency room.

After that, all of our lives changed forever. Both my husband and I had to restructure our entire careers to provide the level of care he has needed.

If I do not prioritize my desk... then none of the kids are gonna have a home.

That's just the reality that we face. Both my husband and I need to work in order to keep our home, keep up with medical expenses and keep everyone housed, clothed, and fed.

We've done our best to make sure that SD still feels like it is her room. It is decorated the way she wants. She has permanent personal items here. Closet full of her own clothes so she doesn't have to pack between homes. We've given her a locking trunk for privacy...

But yeah. I need to have office space to keep my job. So the rule is that she clears off the desk before leaving and I put up a room divider in that corner and make myself a little cubicle when she is not here.

I HAVE to have private space with a door for my job. I will be fired if I do not have that. I cannot work in common areas. My company takes client privacy and security very seriously.

OOP on the relationship between her children and her husband/the father, his relationship with SD’s mom

Yes, I had my first with my husband before we were married. He proposed to me after we found out I was pregnant and I wanted to take some time after the birth of our first before we got married.

My husband and my SD's biomom were never married and never in a relationship. They had a casual sexual relationship.

: April 16, 2024

first post:

So last week my husband and I sat down together and talked about SD coming to live with us full time and how that would work out.

It was a difficult discussion because, as some redditors had suggested, I really pushed hard for him to really think things through and figure out the obstacles.

Where would he and I work? Common areas are out due to the nature of our jobs. (I can't due to employer restrictions. He does some NSFW things in his we don't want the kids to see).

How were we going to handle the animosity and bullying between the kids? What consequences would be in place?

We talked about what expectations would be for SD living here full time vs just weekends. About how she probably has unrealistic expectations about what the nitty gritty life here is like.

We talked through very possibility we could come up with. Including out there possibilities like selling out home or separating our household and living apart for a while. We ran numbers to see how it may effect our finances.

And ultimately we agreed that the answer was "not yet" with a goal for our family working towards it. And that the best course of action would be to slowly adjust the amount of time she spends in our home vs a sudden custody switch.

So Fri night my husband took SD out to talk to her about everything. He explained to her that she wouldn't have her own room at our place for a couple years but that is something that is on the top of the list for home improvements once our youngest's handicap accessibility renovations are paid off.

He talked to her about what expectations of living with us would be like. That she would have chores and responsibilities.

And most importantly they talked about the bullying and laid down the provision that we needed to see her relationship and attitude towards her brothers improve before she can live here fulltime.

SD obviously wasn't thrilled about any of this, but she said OK and that she would do better with her brothers.

So Saturday I made arrangements for my parents to watch our sons, and we invited SD's mom over so we could all sit down and figure out how SD can start to spend more time here.

And that is when it fell apart. Mom is NOT ok with a change in custody at all. "Absolutely not" was her answer. She took SD home early Sat.

My husband tried to reach out to SD on Sun to see how she was and ask if she wanted to do their guitar lesson over skype or something since her mom took her home early, but she never responded. He called SD's mom and she informed him that SD had lost her phone privileges.

So we don't really know what is going on with all that.

Relevant Comments

OOP on why her SD lost her phone privileges when SD was with her mother

OOP: Turns out she threw her phone at her mom's face, hitting her mom and cracking the screen. Mom isn't giving it back until SD has paid off the deductible.

We do have alternative forms of contact with SD at this time.

OOP on her SD’s reasons for wanting to live with her dad and her. And if the biomom knew about the plans

OOP: No SD's mom didn't come to us.

SD asked weekend before last if she could live with us instead because her and her mom recently moved in with her mom's partner. My husband told her that we would need to discuss it and figure out if it was a possibility.

We didn't talk to biomom until after we know what our answer was. As soon as mom found out SD wanted to spend more time with us, she shut it down immediately

I know a lot of people have been speculating that my SD may be being abused in the comments. And I understand the concern, and I know that it can happen to ANYONE.

But... I don't have any reason to believe that is happening here.

Mom's new partner isn't exactly new. They've been together 5 or 6 years I think now. SD has spent lots of time with her soon to be step-dad. Moving in together is the new thing.

My SD does have a good relationship with my husband and she has not confided anything to my husband about Step dad making her uncomfortable. I believe that she would (but i won't discount the possibility she wouldn't)

From my understanding, the issues in her new home are more to do with having to share her bedroom with her new soon to be step sister and adjusting to a new set of household rules.

OOP on what her husband does for a living

**OOP: ** Nothing exciting!

He does video editing. He has clients who do porn. They send him the raw footage they film and he makes it into saleable videos for them and teaser trailers and stuff.

He also edits youtube videos, special event videos, and even local commercials.

The way we see it, everyone's money spends the same. LOL One day he edits the commercial for the local church's annual yard sale, and the next some hot chick getting a cleveland steamer.

We just have to be really careful about when and where he edits the naughtier videos so none of the kids walk in on him. We try to make sure he only does those when I'm not working so he can stay behind a locked door with headphones on.

: June 22, 2024 (2 months later)

My husband has a daughter that predates our relationship, we also have 2 children of our own, one of which is severely disabled.

He and his daughter's bio mom never had a formal custody arrangement, but due to some recent drama and changes, it became apparent we needed to get something formal and court ordered in place. So we consulted an attorney. While on that course we discovered that my husband wasn't listed on the birth certificate. We had paternity testing done.

My husband is not the biological father.

He is absolutely devastated. He's spiraling. He's hurting so bad, and I can't do anything to take his pain away. We've hugged and cried together so many times this week.

He's not OK. He's flip flopping through despair and anger. The anger scares me. His knuckles are all fucked up from punching something (he wouldn't talk to me about what happened).

Shit is falling apart at home. My husband is in no place to be a father and partner right now. I sent our oldest to my sister's but my youngest is having a really bad week with his medical issues. I think he picks up on the stress/mood of the house. We had to go to the ER last night due to the increased seizure activity.

When I came home. My husband was fucking drunk. He became belligerent and demanded I have our sons tested too. He didn't even ask how our son was doing

I was so pissed off but held my tongue and walked out of the room. I left a few gatorades and some asprin next to him after he passed out.

I'm trying to get him in to see a therapist. No dice so far.

We haven't told SD or Biomom yet. We've already skipped one of our regularly scheduled visitations with SD, and another is coming up soon. So that is going to need to be dealt with ASAP.

I just don't know what to do. I'm so frayed right now. I don't know how much longer I can hold things together.

I want off this ride.

Comments

Mimikyu4: I would try your best to be there for him while also making sure your children are not affected. This is not your fault or the kids fault. And I would tell him if he can’t at least attempt to get a better control on things then he needs to stay somewhere else because it is negatively impacting his son! And if he ain’t gonna be there for them and take care of him then you will. It can have life lasting affects on the kid and it’s not fair to him stand up for him please.

hdmx539: OP, my heart goes out to you, and your husband, and your stepdaughter.

It is ALL so awful!

Is there any possible way you can have a scheduled family therapist meeting when it's your husband's time for custody? He may need to have a session or two prior to that particular session so he can get a game plan on how to tell stepdaughter. Further, the meeting with a family therapist while it's his custody time is so that he can do it in session with the therapist there. Maybe just the two of them.

Is that feasible?

----NEW UPDATE----

: August 27, 2024

I had a couple people asking if I would update and let you guys know how my husband is doing now that we are a couple months out from our D day.

Some things are better, and others are a hell of a lot worse.

Not long after I posted, my husband and I had the biggest, full blown drawn out fight of our entire relationship. I honestly cannot even tell you how it started. It was one of those little things that just triggered and all the stress, anger, resentment and other negative emotions we have been feeling were just completely taken out on one another. I took the kids and left afterwards. I refused to come home until my husband got his head out of his ass and talked to someone about all of this. The silver lining to the big blow out was it did spur my husband on to start dealing with everything. He has been to his doctor and has been prescribed medication and he has been looking for a therapist. He did a session with one, but didn't particularly click with them. He is going to pursue others as our finances allow.

My husband and I discussed his drunken demand for paternity testing. I was able to express how hurtful that was to me. He apologized fully and has decided he does not need to have our sons tested right now. We've discussed options for what we'll do if doubt continues to linger on my husband's part, but as of now no testing is being done. Husband and I are both trying our best to show each other grace on this matter.

The "hell of a lot worse" part is what is going on with step-daughter.

My husband had to take a few weeks without visitation to get his own emotions under control. Then we had our typical weekend visit. We did not tell step-daughter or bio mom about the test results yet, as we were still considering our options for the next move.

My husband had ultimately decided that he still wanted a relationship with his daughter and still wanted to pursue legal custody. The attorney we had consulted suggested that with our state's laws and the established parental relationship, we should have a claim and could likely get court ordered partial custody, but it would be a more complicated legal case.

So that's all fine and dandy, but my husband in a very boneheaded move did not play his cards close enough to his chest with bio mom. Several weeks ago they had a verbal altercation.

We have not been able to get in contact with bio mom, her fiance or step daughter since. We contacted the police who told us this was a civil matter and we needed to go through the courts so no help there.

Sorry. I wish I had a happier update, or more of an update in general.

Relevant Comments

OOP on giving her husband peace of mind

OOP: What about my peace of mind? Of having a husband that trusts me?

I told him we could have the tests done, but we will be doing couple's counseling along with it.

Of course it does.

Which is why I've been helping him find a therapist and covered his copay when he was short. It's why I have been taking the lion's share of household responsibilities while he is adjusting to his new anxiety medication since they knock him on his ass.

The paternity test would ease his mind and stress, you know you didn’t cheat so it shouldn’t be as bad as you make it

It may ease his mind and stress, but then I am in a marriage with a man that I feel doesn't trust me, which will put my mind into a spiral and stress me the fuck out, and make me second guess our entire marriage.

We are husband and wife. One of us doesn't get to pursue a course of action for their peace of mind that causes the other to go into a tail spin.

We can have tests done once we have some extra scratch, but only if my husband is willing to do counseling with me about it

That is the only way I see it happening without it destroying our marriage.

OOP on doing the paternity test

OOP: I'm OK doing paternity tests, but ONLY if he will do couple's counseling.

I will die on that hill.

As of right now, husband has said he doesn't feel the need for us to do a paternity test now that he's come down a bit emotionally, and since we have a lot of other financial obligations on priority list ahead of paternity testing it's waaaaaaaay on the back burner.

He is currently looking for an individual therapist. He had a session with one, but didn't click with them.

He'll be looking for another after we catch up financially from paying the attorney and court filings.

Paternity testing is not happening unless we have a couple's counselor.

That's a hill I am willing to both die and kill my marriage on if need be.

It will put him at ease and will build his trust in you.

After the decade we have been together, where we have had zero issues of infidelity, or untrustworthy behaviors between us, he should not have to be "building" trust in me. At this point in our relationship, the trust should be there.

For me, the level of distrust that he has shown in accusing me of cheating (which, is what a demand for paternity testing is) means that our marriage is in deep shit. There simply is no meaningful romantic relationship without trust for me.

Giving him "peace of mind" with a paternity test does not address the underlying trust issues. So he may get peace of mind in that regards, but doing so will cause me to doubt the entire foundation of our marriage.

To be put simply, a paternity test without couple's counseling will lead to our divorce. He'll get 3 envelopes. 2 with positive paternity results. 1 with my petition for divorce.

Yes. I feel that strongly about it.

As it is, my husband says he does not feel the need to test our kids. That it was a drunken outburst. He says he is in a better place now and hasn't brought it up again in discussion.

And he does know my stance. If he still feels the need to have our kids tested, fine. We'll make it happen but only if he also agrees to couple's counseling first

OOP on asking the county sheriff’s office to do a wellness check on her stepdaughter

OOP: They wouldn't tell us ANYTHING!

I don't know what the hell went down, the first person from the sheriff's office seemed like they were going to be helpful. They said they would send someone.

I don't know what biomom said or did but a second office came to our house and asked for documentation and told us we need to take this up with the court.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My [24F] fiancee [29M] was sent an NFSW video of me and I need advice

Originally posted to different subs & relationships

TRIGGER WARNING: revenge porn, victim blaming

  March 20, 2024

I [24F] have been with my fiancee [29 M] for 4 years and we have our wedding planned for this November. I don’t know exactly when it happened (has to have been recently), but someone DM’d him a video of me from before we even met or either of us even knew each other. It’s embarrassing, but without going into too much detail it was a video of me sleeping with three men. It is very obviously me in the video and it would be impossible for him to think it was anyone else. As far as I know it was from an anonymous Instagram account, but it’s been hard to get info.

When we started dating, we never really talked about previous sex lives or anything, but I knew that I was his first girlfriend and he knew that he was not my first boyfriend. He did not know about this as I guess I didn’t feel it was relevant or worthwhile to tell him. He confronted me on Monday about it and has been very upset since. We had been living together but he has moved in with a friend because he said he needed some time to think. When he confronted me, he flat out asked me how many men I had slept with and I was honest with him and told him 8. He asked if I had ever cheated on him and I said no, which is true. The thought of doing that had never even crossed my mind.

Honestly I was and am pretty hurt by how he reacted because I have always been faithful to him and am deeply in love with him. He said he thinks I might be using him because he has a high salary, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. I tried explaining that to him but I don’t know if he believes me. I was going through a very weird and very tough time in my life when that video was recorded, and I know now it was a bad idea but it’s not like I can undo it or anything. I guess I’m worried he’s going to break up with me over this, and I would really like advice from the community on how to handle moving forward with this situation.

TL;DR Someone sent my fiancee a NSFW video of me from before we met and it's wrecking our relationship.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

NatashOverWorld

There's not much you can do. While we are usually aware our partners have a sexual history, it can be hard to handle when it's shoved in our face.

Hope he recognizes that you both love him and are faithful to him and he's able to process it.

But definitely keep an eye on anyone who has been muted about your marriage to him suddenly popping up. Its helpful to know who's trying to sabotage you.

OOP

Thanks for the reply. I feel terrible for what I did back then but I also feel like he's acting like I cheated on him which I don't think is fair. I didn't think we really had any problems in our relationship up until this point, either, and everything was going so well.

~

The_Bear_Jew320

First, you need to figure out which of the 3 guys did it, contact a lawyer and file police report because this is a sex crime. There need to be consequences for them so they don’t do it again in the future.

Now about your fiancé there is really not much more you can do. Remind him it was in the past; it was a bad period of your life and you regret doing it. But honestly seeing your significant other on camera having sex with just one person is tough, with 3 well I can’t even imagine, espy because you are this guys first girlfriend and probably hasn’t done those things in the past. Are you doing anything in that video you haven’t done with him? Moaning louder than you usually do? Do the guys have bigger dicks?? Because if even just one of those things is the case then you’ve got a big uphill battle to climb unfortunately. Do I think you can salvage this relationship? Possibly idk. The ball is in his court.

OOP

I have a lawyer and am working with the police at this point.

And yes, I am doing a number of things in he video I haven't done with him.

~

sjrsimac

This is about the lying, not the sex.

Yes, you should've disclosed your entire sexual past early in the relationship. I have participated in consensual taboo sexual experiences that I told my wife about a month into our relationship. She took a minute to absorb the information, asked questions, and we moved on.

So you lied by omission, but did you lie by commission? For instance, did he ask you anything like, "What's the most out-of-this-world sex thing you've done?" and you failed to mention the orgy?

Another issue may be feeling jilted. Did he ask you if you were open to a threesome or swinging? If so, did you say no to avoid having to admit your experience with that kind of sex?

OOP

He has never asked me to do a threesome or asked if I was interested in them. I honestly don’t know how I would have reacted if he did. I probably would have just told him but I guess it would be dependent on the conversation.

We never had a sexual history conversation so I assumed he wasn’t interested. I think that’s a fair assumption, and given that, I didn’t want to force information on him I didn’t think he wanted to know. I wasn’t purposefully hiding it from him, I just didn’t think he wanted to know so I didn’t tell him. If he wanted to know I would have told him.

When asked a few times why OOP never brought the incident up

It was just never something that came up and I guess I thought it would have been awkward to bring up myself. I totally understand you feeling that way, but I didn't think he cared but he obviously does. And I know, it was a bad decision.

When told to contact the people who made the video and seek legal action

It was all before I even knew him and I haven't talked to any of the people involved in years. I don't know where it could have come from. I would like to pursue something but I don't have the video and never had it.

*&

The video was taken with my consent. It was a bad decision, I understand that.

Like I said in the post, we never talked about previous sexual history but he knew I had ex's so I guess I assumed that meant he knew I'd had an amount of sex before. Obviously I wouldn't expect him to think of that as the same as this, but I just wish he gave me a better opportunity to explain myself.

On the foursome and the video

I regret doing it but was in a bad place when I did. I guess it would make more sense to me if I knew him when I had done this but I didn't even know him then. And I haven't talked to any of the other participants in years.

&

If the roles were reversed I would have enough trust in him to not immediately jump to accusing him of cheating. It would obviously be on my mind but I'd let him explain himself.

  Aug 27, 2024 (5 months later)

It's been a while since I posted, but I got a lot of comments from my original post so I figured I'd provide an update. I have the post linked below, but as a ref ref refresher, my fiancee (who I had been with for 4 years) was DM'd a very graphic video of me from before I knew him and he broke up with me.

Since my post, we did have a few conversations but none ever really went anywhere, as it basically boiled down to him saying he didn't think he would be able to spend the rest of his life with someone who would do something like I did. I tried explaining that it was a mistake and something I would never even consider doing again but it didn't really seem to matter to him I guess. Obviously he is free to make his own decisions about his life, but it's just devastating to me that this happened. I was an am crazy in love with him and it's all gone because of something that happened before I even knew he existed.

So I guess pretty short update. I haven't talked to him for about a month because there's really nothing else to say to him I guess. A lot of people had asked me to post an update at the time of the original post, and I guess I was just getting around to it now. Thanks for reading.

TL;DR: My fiancee did not see things the way I did and we have broken up permanently I would assume.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

AconThrowAway072023

Any luck finding out who sent it?  1 of the 3 dudes who has a crush on you & wanted to torpedo your wedding?  Whoever did it committed a crime against you, I hope they are discovered.

Totally not fair but I guess you will have to disclose this encounter with future serious relationships, and tell that a vid might be sent to him as revenge porn.

Sorry this is happening.  You are still young, you can overcome this.

OOP

I did not have any luck finding out who sent it, no, which is an extra punch in the guy on top of all this. It's scary to think that's still out there and whoever sent it probably will again the next time I get involved with someone.

~

SgtHennessy

Going back through your account history.. This sucks to hear. I think trying to look at your story and putting myself in your fiancee's shoes I'd find it hard to see a video like that, especially if I didn't know it had happened beforehand. But I guess the worst part on your end is that you're actually the victim of a crime and he didn't support you in that. Someone sent revenge porn to your ex with the obvious hopes of ruining your relationship and he fell for it. You shouldn't be punished for decisions you made in your past as far as I'm concerned.

OOP

Thanks for saying that. I really am trying to see it from both sides but it's just hard for me you know? I know we have to live with our choices but I just hate that literally one bad decision has fucked everything up.

~

Turnt5naco

There should be a way to track who sent it through the video's metadata, or at the least from whatever email/account/phone number sent it. The guys in the video could be suspects.

What have the investigators said?

Really sorry that this has done so much damage to you and your relationship with your fiance.

OOP

Honestly the police did not seem interested in helping me when I brought this up to them, and that was very disheartening for me so I guess I didn't pursue it much after that.

  Aug 27, 2024

I posted more about this back when it was happening, but I guess I never found this subreddit so I wanted to post on here too. About 5 months ago, an anonymous Instagram account DM'd my ex-fiancee a very explicit video of me that was taken before I even knew him, and it caused him to break up with me. Since then, we've had some back and forth but recently I think it's officially over and I'm having trouble knowing what to do next.

I'm trying to be understanding of his point of view, as no one would want to see someone they love like that, but at the same time, I feel like I am also a victim here from that kind of thing being shared and I also feel hurt that he wasn't in my corner defending me from that.From the various discussions we've had, he has said he simply can't see himself spending the rest of his life with me after seeing the video and that he feels like I misled him by not bringing up that I'd dome something like this when we first started dating. I totally understand he's allowed to feel how he feels, but at the same time it was from before I even knew him, and I realized it was a mistake almost immediately and have never had any desire to do something like that again, and it's also not like I was purposefully hiding it from him or lied about it or anything. The topic just never came up and it's not like I'm just going to drop something like that one someone. Or maybe I should have and that would have made it better. I don't know.

I know it's cliche or whatever, but I really feel like he was the one for me and now it's over and I have no chance with him anymore. He pretty much shut me out after this happened but I still managed some conversations, but that's pretty much over now. I tried to pursue legal action about the video being sent and he was helpful with that I guess and I was hopeful that might change his mind or something but it didn't, and my pursuit didn't go anywhere either as I didn't really have anything and he deleted the video shortly after it was sent.

I guess I feel like I'm rambling, but I feel totally lost right now and could use any advice anyone on here would be willing to give. This is the first "real" breakup I've had, and I get things get better with time I guess, but I'm just having a hard time accepting it's over right now.

TL;DR: Fiancee broke up with me after being DM'd a video, and now I feel like I'm lost

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Flynn_JM

I think now you need to focus on who has the video and how you can get it deleted. If you were under 18 at the time,  you can approach the men and tell them to delete it in front of you or you call the police. 

Did you ex ever bring up/ask about threesomes during your relationship? If so,  that may be why he felt misled. 

OOP

I was not underage in the video. I tried pursuing it with the police but that was frankly a very embarrassing situation and I will likely not do that again. Threesomes were never a topic of discussion between us, no.

Flynn_JM

Have you reached out to the three guys? Did you know you were being recorded and consented?

How was your sex life with your ex? Fairly vanilla?

OOP

I have not reached out to them and hadn't for a number of years. I wasn't friends with them anymore by the time I met my now ex-fiancee. Yes, I knew and consented to being recorded. Like I said, it was a terrible idea and I regretted it almost immediately. I had asked them to delete it and they said they did but apparently not. My ex and I had a very good sex life that we were both very happy with.

Flynn_JM

What was your relationship with these guys like at the time? Were/ did you date any of them?

OOP

I was friend with them for a while. We did not date.

Flynn_JM

Did any of them want to date you? Or hook up again?

OOP

They did want to hook up again but I declined.

Flynn_JM

Had you hooked up with any of them more than that one time? Was there one guy who was more persistent? 

OOP

No it was just that time.

  Aug 27, 2024

This was kind of a long time coming I guess, but it became "official" recently which led me to finding this subreddit I guess. I had been with him for 4 years and was so crazy in love with him and now I don't even know what to do because it was such a bad breakup I can't even talk to him anymore or anything. Does anyone have any advice or anything? I know it's cliche or whatever but like I feel like he really was the one for me and now I won't find anyone else to be with you know? I'm trying to stay positive but I don't even know how to do that I guess. Sorry for the rambling post but it's been an emotion morning for me I guess. Thanks for reading.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

keyrodi

This is awful, I’m so sorry, OP. This is doubly frustrating since you said the police aren’t interested and no legal options are available for you.

I will say that a person that ended an engagement with you due to this wasn’t your person. A lot of people disagree with me, but I’ll take to my dying grave that you should never have to hide aspects or pieces of past from your lifelong partner. A partner should accept your mistakes, your regrets, and your faults. A partner should know you’ll do right by them and yourself. If they can’t, then it wasn’t the right pairing.

Your ex has his standards. That’s fine, but that simply means he wasn’t right for you. The pain in your heart won’t accept that yet, but you’ll move on. You’ll find someone else. Wishing you the best.

OOP

Thanks for saying that. It's just so hard because if that never happened I would be getting married to the love of my life in like 2 months. I know everyone is allowed to feel how they want to feel, and it was probably traumatic for him too, but I'm just devastated with the way everything went. I never would have thought this would happen.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

, ,

[New Update]: AITAH for being upset my husband is sharing a hotel room with another woman.

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Trigger Warnings: mentions of infidelity, emotional manipulation, neglect

RECAP

: July 16, 2024

My (36F) husband (42m) is currently in Las Vegas for a National bowling tournament. He is there with his mom and her friends/folks from their bowling league. He is an avid bowler - bowls in a Tuesday night league, often in state tournaments and sometimes in National tournaments. Typically I go with and sometimes bowl myself. This year, we decided I would not go, but stay home with our three boys (ages 4,8,10) due to heat and smoke in Vegas in July.

My husband and I have been married for 11 years. This is his second marriage. His first marriage failed because he walked in on his wife cheating on him with another man. I have never, not once, thought that he would ever be intimate with another woman while he was with me. He’s just not that type.

So, on to this trip. Typically when he goes on a trip without me (at least one a year given my job and time off requirements) he stays in a hotel room with his mom or our boys.

Three nights ago, I was on FaceTime with him while he was in his hotel room. It was really nice and he was talking about possibly taking a nap for lack of sleep. I asked if he had his room to himself (because that would have been awesome) and he said “oh no, (?) is sharing with me”. I asked him who that was, and he said something - I don’t remember - aside from “she”. I said “wait What?!?”

And then he went on to explain that he was supposed to share the room with his moms boyfriend, but plans changed and now he is sharing the room with another woman on the trip. He told me that I played cornhole with her last month at a get together. I reminded him who I had played cornhole with (him and a girl, but not one with the name he was giving me - I have no idea who this woman is) at which point he got very confused. He did not understand why I was upset or frustrated - so I dropped it because I did not want to deter from his time and his bowling. I know I should have asked how he would have felt if the roles were reversed - but I didn’t. Partly because I didn’t want to fight (we hardly ever fight) while the kids were up, and partly because I didn’t want to hear him chalk it up to my imagination. I have hardly slept since that night, and my dreams have been chock full of worst case scenarios, and still I have not really brought it up again.

There have been a few occasions in which he has talked about taking naps and how lame he is in Vegas. I have mentioned a few times - sort of sarcastically as a side, that he would be having more fun if he were sharing a room with me, or if I was there instead of his present company - but he has brushed it all aside. So here we are: he has spent the last three nights in a hotel room with a woman that is not me or his mother - AMITA for being upset?

Edited to get rid of some names - husband is coming home tonight and we will talk. I'm hoping its 82 year old grandma ;)

[UPDATE]

Ok, so I took some advice and grew "a backbone". I texted him a little while ago instead of waiting until he got home - he and our boys are leaving for another trip tomorrow morning (I could not get the time off of work) so I wanted to make sure we had the conversation fully before he left again.

Before I give the update, I wanted to make a couple of things clear:

I do trust my husband. He has never shown he would be the kind of person to cheat, and that is not what truly concerned me. Even though I did have some pretty unpleasant dreams. My issue was that he was not upfront and honest with me. If I had done the same thing, he would have lost his mind - understandably. This is why I started the original post with "he's just not that type".

We do generally have great communication - the issue here is that I like to have this kind of conversation face to face rather than over the phone. It's just not something I like to hash out while we are not in the same space. Obviously, in this situation, I should have made the exception, and have now done so.

Now, for the update:

I texted him today to tell him that this situation has been bothering me for the last three days - I had questions and we needed to have this conversation. I asked who the woman was, how old she was and why didn't he tell me about the situation before I found out by accident.

There was a mixup with the rooms, something about someone not going so people were shuffled. He was paired with a woman about my age. He said he didn't think it would be a big deal and didn't want to inconvenience everyone else on the trip. He also said he did not want to upset me, which is why he didn't right out tell me about it. He did tell me that I never had anything to worry about and he made sure they weren't in the room alone together aside from when they were sleeping. I know, I know - but I really do believe him on this.

I was honest with him and told him that if roles were reversed, out of respect for him, I would have called him right away to make sure he was ok with it. I told him that while I trust him implicitly, I should not have found out the way that I did. And he should not have blown off my concern. I told him that the lack of upfront communication felt suspicious, regardless of intention or what actually happened. As for not upsetting me, I told him I would have understood and not been upset if he had just been honest.

He has apologized profusely. I told him next time to just communicate - he is adamant there will not be a next time.

So, call me naive if you want, but I am dropping it at this point. He will be home this evening and I intend on having a nice evening with him before I don't see him again for another two weeks.

Thank you for the advice - I cried it out when I found out her age, but getting this off my chest has been very relieving.

: July 25, 2024

I am not handling this as well as I thought I was.

I had decided to let it go - I know he wasn’t doing anything with this other woman. You can disagree and call me crazy if you’d like - but I do know that.

However - as much as I have tried, I can’t get past the fact that he made the decision to do something he knew I wouldn’t be ok with, and not tell me about it. It all feels - just so messed up.

I have talked to a few of my co-workers (I don’t have really any friends that aren’t friends of his that I talk to on a regular basis - and there is no way I will talk to my family because that is a shit storm I can’t handle right now) and they are all shocked and more angry for me than I have let myself be (most of them know him, the kind of person he is and what ended his first marriage - he used to work at the same company).

We had less than 24 hours together before he, his mom and all three of my children took their trip to the other side of the United States. I have been sitting in my feels and will continue to do so until they get back - almost another week from now.

I was on the phone with them this evening before they went to bed, and one of the first things my husband said to me was: “I’m sharing a bed with a red head tonight”. And I almost came unglued before I realized he was talking about one of our boys (we have three sons). After a very long pause, I said “you better be talking about —-“ and I was so angry I don’t understand how he didn’t pick up on that.

Every conversation we have had has been short and to the point because I’m really just not interested in talking to him. I have been calling my oldest son, and talking with my boys instead. His mom hasn’t really said much to me - which makes me think he has said something to her. Which is fine of course - I really don’t care about that.

Bottom line is: I don’t know what to do. It is midnight at home, I tried to go to bed two hours ago and just could not stop sobbing - so I got up and let it go. It felt good to get it out but I know I need to talk to someone. I have support lines through work I can call, but won’t tonight - far too many drinks and I don’t want to bring that into it as well - but I will call tomorrow.

I know I should be upset and angry and not let it go. But I am afraid when I do talk to a professional they will say I’m blowing it out of proportion. I will still call, but I need to get my head straight first.

He is bicycling for seven days - over 400 miles - so as much as I want to tear him a new one right now (especially after his completely insensitive and clueless joke this evening) I have not. Because I want him home safe and sound.

Regardless of my feelings in this moment - the most important thing is that my children’s dad comes home safe so we can hash this out at least in the same city and not while he is 1,000 miles away. With his mom. And my children.

: August 8, 2024

Last Post:

Original Post:

I am sorry it has been a bit since I have updated - things have been....a lot. I am also sorry this post is very long....

My family came home a day early, so I took two extra days off of work to see them and figure things out with my husband. After we had unloaded and put everything away, we had dinner and watched a show. After putting the boys to bed, my husband and I went to our room. It was pretty clear he thought he was going to get lucky, because he was very confused when I turned the light on.

I told him that I had questions and I needed him to answer them. He was hesitant but agreed. I asked him who this woman is, how old and is she married. I still don't know who she is, but he did confirm she is YOUNGER than me, and not married. I then asked who made the decision he would be sharing a room with her. He said that his mom said it would be really great if they shared so she could spend the three nights with her boyfriend/not boyfriend. I asked him why he didn't tell me about it, he said he was just so tired and had had such a long day he didn’t think about it. (conflicting with his earlier: I didn't want to upset you...). He said that he didn't think I would ever question his intentions so why would he think he would have to tell me. I told him it wasn't about questioning his intentions or fidelity, it's that what they did was completely inappropriate and disrespectful to me and our marriage. And at the absolute very least, he should have sent me a quick text explaining the situation. I also told him that his mom is not always right.

He apologized profusely, said he shouldn't have put his mom before me, he didn't think it would be a thing because he would never try to hurt me and he thought I knew that. All the things. And we honestly talked it out and worked through things for a solid few hours. We came to a really good place and connected for the first time in a long while.

Then he went to work the next day - which hurt because I didn't really have the time to be calling in, I am severely behind at work - but I did anyway because I wanted to do the right thing for us and to take care of us. But because he just spent two weeks going all over the country doing something super fun and now he is super behind in his job, he couldn't afford to take anymore time off. So that really hurt - but I let it go because he really was behind and I at least had the boys that I got to catch up with.

That day my mom called to see what we were doing for my birthday which was two days away. I had honestly forgotten about it with everything, so I told her I didn't know and asked if my husband had called her. She said he had not. So I told her I would let her know when we came up with a plan.

That night, I asked him if he had a plan, and he said "oh I don't know, what do you want to do?". And that really really hurt, but I let it go because we have had so much going on. I told him it would be great if we had a BBQ and he invited people and got the groceries and he agreed. I specifically asked if he would call my mom. He did get some of the groceries, but not all of them. And he did surprise me with a cake. But that was it. I ended up inviting everyone last minute, having to apologize along the way, and had to go to the store twice to get the rest of the things we needed.

At the party, he started showing our friends the pictures from his trip - pictures I haven't even seen yet. I was so mad, upset, frustrated. He didn't catch on. So then it came time for gifts - his was a card game and a backrub. I felt like I was just slapped in the face. To be clear: I don't place a high value on gifts - if you get me something great, if you don't, that's fine.

But he didn't get me anything for Mother's Day, but I got him a whole slew of things for Father's day for his trip and an xbox game he wanted. (I also planned each of those days by myself). And he just went to the other side of the country, and all he thought to grab for me was a card game? I didn't want to fight in front of our friends, so I let it be. I didn't really expect more than that anyway - but it still hurt.

Then I went back to work and things were...meh. Anything he did irritated me. Anything his mom did irritated me. I was getting so frustrated and sad and angry and just not myself. Then I had a medical issue (something that pokes it's little head back up every five years like clock work, but I had been ignoring because of everything going on) come back and I went to our urgent care to take care of it. But I had to take care of all sorts of things first so that me going to the dr. didn't hamper my husbands day, so I was really irritated in the morning. It didn't help that his mom came over and I just can't handle her right now. It also didn't help that he told me that morning about all the plans he had come up with for our sons birthday in a few weeks.

I was mad at myself for being upset (i should be stoked my husband is thinking about our son and wanting to give him a great birthday party) but I was so deflated and sad and angry in that moment. But he had to go to work so I left it alone. So before I went, I sent him a text apologizing for being irritated. I told him that I'm not in a good place mentally or physically and am really struggling. He asked how he could help, and I responded that I really didn't know. And then I saw the dr. and he referred me to surgery. This will be the third time I have had surgery for this.

I was so frustrated and sad and hurt, I decided to just put it all out there. And since he can't seem to find the time to actually talk to me, I texted him a novel. Laying out everything that is on my mind. The trip, my birthday, him not taking time, my sons birthday, all of it. After an hour he had not responded, so I sent him another text saying that maybe he could just tell me I'm not crazy and we will get through this together, or something like that at least. He responded to that saying that he loves me and has lots to say but can't say it over the phone.

So then I went to work and did the things. I felt a little better he didn't discredit all of my frustrations so things were...ok. That night he called to tell me he loved me and was going to take the next day off to spend with me (it was also my day off). I was pretty darn stoked.

The next day I asked him what were the things he wanted to say. And he said he didn't want to say it in front of the kids. So then that I night I asked him again, and he said that we have been having such a great day, he didn't want to ruin it and me get all emotional so he wasn't going to say it then. I felt like I had just been punched in the gut. So wait - you have been so nice since I texted you, but now I'm going to be sad and upset? What is going on?

It is now the next day, and I just asked him again. He completely blew me off and went to town to pick up our son from camp.

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do. I can only ask him to talk to me so many times. He doesn't share his thoughts or emotions often, but I would think he would do it now right? I don't know what to do.

Relevant Comments

cthulularoo: holy shit, you're not even an afterthought to this guy. You're don't have any importance in his life. You're just there. He'll just tell you stuff to get you off his case and then just keep ignoring you.

OOP: That is definitely how I feel

OOP responds to multiple comments on seeking for a professional counselor to help navigate the next steps and find a thing to do that helps OOP feel happy

OOP: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for your kind and understanding reply! I have made a few calls with no responses yet and quite a few say they are not taking new clients. Keeping my fingers crossed though - I do agree, I need an outside perspective other than Reddit

Thank you! I have used our system, but I still have to call. They helped narrow it down but I have to make an appointment- I get 6 free sessions which is great. I just need someone to call me back 😞

Thank you for the advice - I will try. I did get in two chapters of the book I’m reading this week, and have taken extra time with my boys. I needed that ❤️

Ladyvett: I think that woman on the trip was more important than he’s letting on. His mother would not be welcome in my house again until she apologizes to my face. No more trips alone for any reason for a very long time. He needs to have consequences and you’re letting him coast. He’s trying to wait you out. Updateme

Dachshundmom5: I don't know why you just keep "letting things go" and deluding yourself that you're in a good place.

Your husband was in a hotel room with a younger woman for days. He gaslit you that it's no big deal and acting like you're the crazy one for thinking it's a problem. In what world are things okay after that? How much of a doormat has he made you that 1 conversation blows that over?

Your MIL set him up to cheat on you. In no world is him sharing a room with a younger single woman appropriate. He knows that. She knows that. If you think he's a good boy, I don't know what kind of blinders you have on or kool aid you're drinking, but stop.

He blew off your birthday. He couldn't even muster going to the grocery store. Let alone sending some texts.

He was away from you for 2 weeks and couldn't even bring you some postcards from along the way? My son was on a school trip for 4 days. He brought me all kinds of little things because he was in a gas station and saw this pretty postcard I would like. Or at this gift shop and thought that key chain was something I would like. So, your husband is less considerate than a teenager on a school trip with all his teenage buddies?

He gives you bullshit after bullshit and just pretends things are fine.

You lay it all out there via text and again, he blows you off. Gives you some love bombing in the form of family time, and expects to sweep it under the rug. He's hoping to wait you put before you find out what he actually did in that hotel room. Or how many times he's met that woman before. Or just to make sure he can feed you bullshit after betraying your marriage with his mom's help and you'll just ignore it.

At some point, you have to acknowledge you have a shitty husband and a VERY unhealthy marriage. How many ways does he have to show you you're not a priority, he doesn't respect you, and he could not care less about your feelings before you believe him?

: August 19, 2024

I apologize for the late update - my health took a pretty drastic turn for the worse for a minute. But no worries, all is good now. And I had a really good talk with my Dr. about putting myself first and she is getting me in touch with a counselor.

Now, for the update: it's barely an update, and for that I'm sorry.

When I finally did get him to tell me what he wanted to say (he ended up saying it in front of the boys anyway) he only brought up two things I had talked about in the novel I had sent him. The first was that I was going to look for a counselor. He said he loved that idea and that it really helped him when he was talking to one.

Then he brought up that I had mentioned how much weight I have gained since the birth of our last child. He said that he still finds me crazy attractive, as should be evident by the fact that he still shows up in bed. Then he started talking about what I shouldn't be doing if I wanted to lose weight, and apologizing for the fact that he and the boys have ridiculous metabolisms and don't have to worry about it. I asked him to stop trying to give me weight loss advice - that wasn't the point of me telling him.

I asked if there was anything else he wanted to say and he said no. Just those two things.

So at this point this is where I am at:

My husband did not cheat on me - I do know this is true

I am still not in a good place because of so many things happening at once - so I am seeking help

Thanks for the advice and support from most of you. But this is my last post on this. I won't be able to actually work on my marriage reading some of these responses.

Comments

AnonThrowAway072023: Wow Well it is your life not anyone else's. His idea of treating you with love and respect and honor, and make up for his MANY missteps is to try and make you less fat.

But don't worry, he still wants to fuck you as is.

I really hope for the best for you. Like most following your story I think he treats you like shit and beyond taking you for granted. He won't change because he feels he isn't behaving wrong.

You deserve a better happier life, I'm so so sorry.

Impressive-Arm4668: "should be evident by the fact that he still shows up in bed" is a WILD statement to me 💀

----NEW UPDATE----

: August 27, 2024

Ok - some of you have probably read my earlier posts…I have deleted them as a knee jerk reaction to something that happened this morning.

Long story short:

My husband shared a room with another woman in Vegas last month and did not communicate properly (or at all until I pretty much found out on accident) - we have hashed it out for the most part at this point. We have also come to a good place concerning other things in my earlier posts - I heard those of you calling me stupid and a doormat. I also heard those of you lending support, kindness and advice. Thank you for both BTW. So - I called him out, really talked to him about how I was feeling and we are good. Obviously I have a lot of work to do on my own, and will include him in that growth when needed.

This morning he got a message request on Facebook from a throwaway fake account. Something along the lines of: “I heard you had a good time in Vegas - do you know what your wife thinks?” He showed this to me willingly and as a question like “do you possibly know who this is or why they would send this?” Very innocent and open - as we have discussed in the last few weeks.

At first I thought this message came from someone on Reddit. So I deleted my posts - of course I have found my posts on several other websites - so I’m sure it will get back to him eventually. I wasn't sure how, but I thought maybe someone tracked him down. I'll be honest: that idea did not make me feel very safe.

However: one of the things mentioned in the Facebook message is not something I shared here. Which got me thinking and racking my brain. There are two people I have told ALL of the details to - and neither one of them would ever send him a message like this. They are friends with both of us and have helped me see all sides in this situation. They would have given hip crap - not called him out like this.

Then I thought - well shit. Maybe it’s a friend or BOYfriend of this woman (I know her name - I just can’t place her face, so don’t know who she is) and maybe he/they just found out. And maybe this person has information that I don’t have…

So - I have messaged several accounts with that name and picture with the same message: “did you message my husband" and "I don’t want to start a fight with you if you did - I just need some answers if you have them” hoping to get a response from the account that actually messaged my husband.

He is at work - when he gets home I will check his phone for any info (again) and link his messages on the computer so I can see. I’m not going to be a doormat, but I also have a hard time believing my husband would cheat on me. Well…I guess right now in this moment I don’t - but I digress. If he did cheat, he has been pretty darn open with communication in the last couple of weeks and showing me this message makes it extra hard to believe. But I still have this pit in my stomach and I need to find some answers so I can move past this.

Either way, I will not be posting this until after I go through his phone and link his messages.

I could not find anything on his phone. I also could not get the messenger app to link properly to the computer - so I am still in the blind hoping for a response from someone…

I just told him my theory that it is the other woman’s friend/boyfriend trying to start trouble. He says he doesn’t think so. Says he is sure it came from our conversations via text and phone. Like a phishing scam.

I have no words. If he actually thinks this is what happened - he has lost his mind. If he is trying to pass this off so I don’t question him anymore - well now I’m pissed.

I’ll be talking to his mom tomorrow.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not OOP. OOP is

Original posted 4 mos. ago in

AITAH for cutting off my family for getting a restraining order on my husband?

I (33 F) have been married to my husband (32M) for a few months but we’ve been together for 6 years. My parents had asked us to move into their home two years back to help them out since my dad is medically disabled. We agreed because this would allow us to save up for a house. When I was 19, my father had a brain tumor and at the same time his mother was in the hospital and it wasn’t good. My mom spent all her time at the hospital with my grandma so I decided to take 2 years off from college and put in a leave of absence from my job until my dad was better so I could take care of him and my brother who is younger. Fast forward, I met my now husband at work and we hit it off. From the beginning, he took it upon himself to take my father to appointments and fix things around the house for them. When we moved in, my husband fixed the house for my parents everyday after working 10 hours a day. Anything they asked off him, he did. He fixed the dryer 6 times, he repaired the HVAC system (he is not in HVAC, he took his personal time to learn the basics so our heat would work) and anything else they needed. So now we are married for a few months and have been looking for a home. My mother has been rude and passive aggressive with him ever since we got married.

Some back story on my childhood. I was emotionally abused by my mom and was taught how to hate my father because he was always working. My mother always used to tell me that my dad had no time for me and to not bother him for anything. My mother once broke an easel over my head when I was 6 because I was playing Barbie’s with my friend and she wanted to play with my new one and I told her she could play with any other one she wanted. My mother has always been toxic but I was always gaslit by family and friends and it was always my fault. My brother on the other hand had stolen from my parents, stolen thousands and thousands of dollars from them, became addicted to hard drugs and has threatened to beat my parents and myself multiple times. He’s the golden child and can do no wrong. I have always resented my parents for this but was always made to believe that I was being stupid and it was my fault.

My husband and I have put our own money into my parents house to help fix it for them with no request for payment back. My parents have been ungrateful for everything we, especially my husband, have done for them but we kept doing it because we lived there too. I recently was told by my therapist that in order to be healthy for myself and my husband I would have to confront my parents about all the issues and trauma that I had been living with. So I do this and all of a sudden, they claim my husband is brain washing me. In their words, there was never an issue so why am I speaking up now? I was explaining to them that my therapist wants me to work on being more healthy with my family and that is why I chose to speak to them.

My husband and I received many gifts for our wedding and both of my parents said to place them in a room no one uses. Just recently, they’ve been complaining about the gifts and told us to figure out storage. So yesterday, we bought a small shed from Sam’s Club so we can place all of our things in it. This is what set my mother off. She said it was her house and we had no right to purchase it. When we tried to explain the reason for it, she started screaming at my husband, telling him he does nothing in the house and we just choose to do whatever we want to do because we are selfish. She also said she wanted us out of “her” house. I told her we had no place to go and that we needed time. She then charged my husband and went to punch him in the face. My father stopped her and then they called the police. When the police came, they told us that they felt sorry for us because we hadn’t done anything but that they decided to place a temporary restraining order on my husband and that they wanted me evaluated for brain washing and Stockholm syndrome. All of this over a freakin shed? The cops came a few hours later and said that I didn’t have to leave but that temporarily he would have to. So we packed up our things and our dog and left to a hotel. I’ve been getting messages from family saying that I’m in the wrong and I’m an Asshole because I put my parents through hell. I’ve decided for my own mental health that I need to cut off all toxic family members because my husband and I don’t deserve this. AITAH?

Edit: hey all. I noticed my wording about the Stockholm Syndrome and brainwashing nonsense sounded like it came from the cops. I’m sorry. My parents were yelling and begging the police to “evaluate me because I would never speak to them like this on my own”. The police obviously didn’t do anything of the sort and even told my parents that I was clearly speaking for myself and was under no duress.

1st Update posed 1 month ago in

Update: AITAH for cutting off my family for getting a restraining order on my husband?

Hello Reddit friends. For those of you who read my first post, it’s been 80 days since I posted it and a lot has changed. My husband and I found a house and will be moving into our home at the end of August!! I am currently low contact with my parents only because a lot of our things are in their house. I have already set up a day for the movers to come help me gather all of our belongings and yes my parents know we are taking our things. My parents were given no information other than we found a place of our own. My father has ignored me since the situation they caused and basically blames me for it (but then tells my mom out loud he’s not mad at me when I’m there). My mother thinks all is well even though I tell her our relationship is the furthest from fine but narcissistic parents will believe what they want.

Once all of our things are out of the house I’m cutting all contact with my parents and whoever else needs to go. My husband and I, even through this difficult situation, have gotten stronger and are living a fairly peaceful life. Therapy has been wonderful and all the wonderful things that are coming our way, we are welcoming with open arms.

One thing I realized, other than my parents being narcissists, is that I really did go through a lot of trauma throughout my life and my parents still think they’re the best parents out there. There was a moment, in the beginning of all of this, where I thought I couldn’t keep going. When I came out of that place and was strong again, I spoke with my parents about it since my mom kept telling me how much they care about me still. Their response to all of this… “oh well that’s not our fault” and “shit happens”. They’re right. Shit does happen. And it’s gonna hit them hard once I am out of their lives for good.

Thanks for all the kind words and advice. I thought I’d share with those, if anyone, who cared to know how we are doing!

Final update posed 1 hr. ago in

Update 2: AITAH for cutting off my family for getting a restraining order on my husband?

Hello Reddit friends!

So if you haven’t seen my previous posts, check out my profile for the other 2. So my husband and I moved into our new home and we are loving the freedom. When I went to my parents house on Friday to help the movers, my brother began saying some disrespectful things to me for no reason. I was moving my stuff outside when he stopped me to tell me how I’m shit and the whole family is so happy for me to be out of the house permanently. I took this moment to see if my mother or father would stand up for me for once… and they didn’t. Therapy has been so helpful through this process so it didn’t bother me that he said it or that they did nothing. It just makes cutting them off so much easier.

My mother then texted me asking me if she and I can work on our relationship.. I told her I’m not ready right now because she still had proven that my brother and my father disrespecting me doesn’t phase her. That’s when the “I’ve done so much for you and you treat me this way?” Well the answer is yes because my life is much better without their toxicity.

My husband and I are so happy to have this home for ourselves and our fur baby. I just want to thank you all so much for all the support and kind words you shared. If anything with my parents comes up I’ll update but at the moment this is the last. I hope you all have wonderful lives and just never give up. Stay strong and kick life’s ass!

I am not The OOP, OOP is

AIW - For being judgmental about our friends' swinger lifestyle?

Originally posted to

Thanks to for finding the update

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, possible attempted sexual assault, gaslighting, swinging under duress

  Aug 12, 2024

My husband thinks I was rude to his friends over the weekend, but I just felt I was being honest, and they were being inappropriate. My husband and I have been married for 13 years now. We are both in our early 40s and have two wonderful pre-teen kids. We were college sweethearts, and he is the only person I have been with. We have a lovely life.

Last week, one of my husband's childhood friend John and his wife Leah visited us along with their kids. I have known them for a long time, and they visit us every summer, and we take vacations together. Our kids are of same age and get along well.

On Saturday night, after the kids went to bed, Leah and John suggested we go to our hot tub and get drunk. I only drink socially and I was just sipping some wine, while others were seriously getting wasted. Leah brought up the issue of sex and how they had slowed down a lot when the kids were young, and now again rediscovered their spark as the kids were getting older. John told us that they have also been experimenting with swinger lifestyle and how amazing their experience has been. My husband was drunk and told them that we never lost the spark, and things have been great, while I was just uncomfortably listening to them.

Leah asked up if we have ever tried swinging, or open relationship, since we both got into a relationship when we were young. My husband had girlfriends before we met me, but I have never been with another man. Leah asked me if I have ever wondered if I missed out on that phase. I told her that I did not since it was like winning a lottery with my husband and it would be foolish to regret not buying the wrong tickets. John asked my husband if he has ever thought about swinging or being with someone else. John was telling him about how the experience is amazing and just adds spice to a marriage.

My husband was being polite and listening to it intently, and asking him questions about how they got into it, how they meet other couples, jealousy issues, etc. Leah finally asked me if I would consider something like swinging and it just made me very uncomfortable. I wanted to shut down the discussion and told her that I can never imagine another man touching me in that way, and probably would leave my husband if he ever thinks of doing the same. She asked why and I told her that another man touching me would feel like cheating to me even if my husband was ok with it, and his love is enough for me that I do not seek attention from other men.

That shut Leah up and John changed the subject quickly and we carried on. We did not talk about this for the rest of the trip. After they left, my husband thought that I was being judgmental towards Leah and John about their lifestyle. He feels I should have been nicer to them, and not equated swinging to cheating or implied that Leah was seeking attention from other men. I stood my ground and told him that I felt uncomfortable with them pushing their lifestyle onto us.

Was I being rude to Leah regarding their swinger lifestyle? I feel everyone should mind their own damn business, but I was triggered by John essentially telling my husband to think about sleeping with other women, and Leah implying that I should somehow be less satisfied because I did not sleep around with a lot of guys. Moreover, I also felt my husband should have shut off the subject immediately instead of asking for more information and stories from John.

**RELEVANT COMMENTS **

Hananaconda420

implied that Leah was seeking attention from other men

THAT was wrong but it just seemed like poor phrasing and at least it finally shut the conversation down because they were trying to coerce you guys in to trying their lifestyle and that's a gross overstep of boundaries.

Moreover, I also felt my husband should have shut off the subject immediately instead of asking for more information and stories from John.

you need to get to the bottom of this because he sounded way to invested to me as well but his questions did cover some of the general curiosities that I've seen so try not to take it to deeply

OOP

Let me clarify about what my husband was asking about. He was asking about where they meet these couples (some apps them mentioned) and private parties they attend. It made me really uncomfortable how curious my husband was about the whole situation.

~

Live-Motor-4000

NTA - they were on a fishing expedition in your hot tub. I bet John & Leah had previously chatted about seducing you two and this was phase one

OOP

To be clear, they never asked us anything inappropriate. However, I felt they were trying to convince us how exciting their new life is. It rubbed me the wrong way that Leah made comments about my personal life and questioned if I was unhappy that I did not date anyone except my husband.

Based on all the responses, I need to have a serious conversation with my husband why he thought I was rude in shutting them down bluntly.

  Aug 13, 2024

Thank you for all the replies; they really helped me gain a lot of different perspectives. I talked to my husband last night, and I cannot believe how much worse things have gotten.

I can't believe so many of you could see what I completely overlooked. After the kids went to sleep, I spoke with my husband, Mike. I told him that the situation from the weekend was still bothering me, and I wanted to discuss it. I asked him why he didn’t feel angry at Leah for implying that I should feel bad for not sleeping with more men, and why that thought didn’t repulse him. He responded that just because we don’t agree with someone’s lifestyle choices doesn’t mean we should look down on their actions. He said that while I was right to shut her down, equating it to cheating or attention-seeking isn’t fair to them. He added that I don’t know the circumstances that led them to start swinging in the first place, and we shouldn’t judge them.

I pushed further, and he told me that Leah and John weren’t doing well last year, and that John felt Leah was distancing herself. Leah brought up the idea of an open relationship with John, which he initially disagreed with. However, they decided that splitting up wouldn’t be good for them financially and would be worse for the kids. John then proposed the idea of swinging so they could go out together and avoid doing anything behind each other’s backs. According to Mike, they both seem to have reconnected since then, and John said Leah has been happier and more present in their relationship. Mike also mentioned that Leah was just curious about me because I’ve never even kissed another man. He admitted he was upset because I rudely shut them down, and he feels John might be hurt because Mike believes John was forced into this lifestyle and because I equated Leah’s suggestion to cheating.

This got me thinking, so I asked Mike how he knew all of this. He told me that John had been confiding in him about it since last year, but he never told me because it was John and Leah’s secret to share, and he didn’t know if they were comfortable telling me.

I started replaying the events of that night in my head. After the kids went to bed, John, Leah, and Mike were drinking. Mike was trying to get me to try his vodka drink, but I’m a lightweight, and I know my limits, so I stuck to sipping some wine. Leah decided the weather was great, and we all stepped outside onto the patio. Mike started the hot tub, and Leah and John decided to get in, wearing only their underwear. Mike did the same. They all were asking me to do the same, but I kept my t-shirt on. I didn’t think much of it since I’ve seen both of them in swimwear before. That’s when they told me they were into swinging. John and Mike were discussing the benefits of swinging, and John was telling Mike how amazing it has been. Meanwhile, Leah was trying to convince me that I should be more curious about sleeping with other men.

I think a lot of you were right—they might have been trying to recruit us. What makes it worse is that my husband knew about them and still tried to get me drunk and asked me to undress before getting into the tub. I asked him if he thought they were trying to get us to swing with them. He smiled and said no, but I can easily tell when my husband isn’t being truthful, so I kept digging. He then admitted that Leah had asked him about it when they were planning the trip, and he laughed it off because he thought it was a joke. At this point, I was beyond pissed. Leah openly asked my husband about sleeping with him, and he never told me about it. I was playing the perfect host all weekend to a woman who (I seriously doubt it was a joke) asked my husband if he wanted to sleep with her.

I was so furious that I slept on the sofa. Mike kept apologizing, saying he didn’t want to out Leah and John to me because he thought it was private. However, I genuinely feel Mike’s actions were also inappropriate—he tried to get me undressed and drunk in front of these people. I don’t know what to do. I think it’s safe to say that I’m never going to be around Leah and John again. However, I feel more hurt by Mike and his actions and am unsure of what I’ll do next.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

EatLikeAChipmunk

Your husband was trying to get you drunk so he can sleep with Leah, and possibly pimp you out without your consent.

I would not feel safe with him at all, the fact he never told you before hand while trying to get you to engage in their behaviour is disturbing.

OOP

That is exactly how I am feeling. He keeps on telling me that he would never think of Leah and John in that way, and I am overreacting. He also says that he is not interested in that lifestyle and I am assuming the worst case scenario and he was just trying to protect his friend's privacy. He also told me that he did not think John and Leah would tell me about them being swingers in the hottub and they just got drunk and carried away.

~

SeaworthinessBig8083

I don’t believe your husband. Too many things line up with he was interested in seeing where this would go. The pressure to drink, the pressure to undress, encouraging his friend to keep talking (selling you on the idea)

They absolutely brought this up to recruit you both, the wife asking your husband to sleep together before you all got together is the nail in the coffin. To tell you to apologize is crazy.

He is interested but they were asking you questions first to feel you out. I can guarantee he told his friends he was curious and encouraged them to tell you more to see your reaction in a safe way, because he knew bringing it up would show he wanted it.

Honestly I would call the other husband and say “I would like the truth, my husband told me you have shared that you both are swinging and then he told me your wife called and asked about hooking up before your visit. To me it feels like my husband was part of the plan to get me to join in that evening. I would like you to be honest with me”

If he is dying inside he might actually tell you the truth.

OOP

Thanks for the suggestion. I am going to call John tonight to get more info. I am wondering if Leah told John what she told Mike because Mike specifically told me Leah (not John) jokingly asked him about it.

NEW UPDATE

  Aug 27, 2024

Update 2: AITAH - For being judgmental about our friends' swinger lifestyle?

Thanks for all your messages. I know many of you have been waiting for an update, and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to post this. A lot has happened over the past few weeks, and I genuinely need advice on what to do next.

After the last post, someone advised me to call John and ask him directly about what was going on. I decided to do that, as I was curious if he knew about Leah's (joking) suggestion to my husband while planning the trip. I called John in the evening when I knew he’d be driving home. He was surprised to hear from me, but I asked him outright about what happened that night. He told me that he considers me like a sister and would never think of doing such a thing. He assured me I was overreacting and that they were just having fun. He also emphasized that just because they’re swingers doesn’t mean they don’t have boundaries; friends and coworkers are off-limits for them to avoid emotional entanglements.

I asked if he knew that Leah had jokingly asked my husband if he wanted to swing while they were planning the trip. John was shocked and told me he had no idea. He said it was extremely inappropriate for her to do that and was also upset that Mike (my husband) didn’t tell him about it. John said he would talk to Leah about it that night.

I didn’t hear from John for a few days, but when I told my husband about the call, he was furious. He said it wasn’t my place to tell John about Leah’s joke, as it could cause misunderstandings. I apologized, explaining that I suspected John and Leah might be trying to get us to swing and felt the need to ask John directly. I also mentioned that I was relieved to hear John reassure me that he would never think of me that way. However, my husband seemed nervous over the next few days.

Then one evening, John called me and said he had found a secret account of Leah's on an app called Telegram, which was installed on her laptop but not her phone. He discovered that Leah had been messaging multiple men, including my husband, on that app. John said he planned to confront Leah that night and wanted to give me a heads-up. He also emailed me the chat logs between Leah and my husband, which spanned more than a year. I had no idea Mike had been talking to her for so long.

The messages began after a trip we took last spring. Leah had been discussing her plans to open her marriage with Mike, asking for his opinion, and sharing how she felt when John finally agreed. Mike mostly just listened and didn’t encourage her or offer advice. After they started swinging, Leah sent some selfies (which were deleted), and Mike asked her where they were going and what they were doing. She would share details about their encounters with other couples, and Mike would respond with a few words here and there. At one point, Leah sent Mike a deleted video (presumably of her and John with another couple), and Mike told her not to send pictures or videos anymore because it made him uncomfortable. However, Leah occasionally messaged him about their encounters, and Mike would respond briefly.

When we were planning the trip, Leah asked Mike if we’d be interested in swinging in one of the conversations. Mike told her that I would never be interested and that he couldn’t bear to see me with another man. Leah made fun of us, saying she bet I fantasized about other men since I’d only been with him. The whole conversation was Leah trying to convince Mike that I would be open to swinging if given the chance. Although these messages were highly inappropriate, one silver lining was that Mike never said anything inappropriate in return. He never expressed interest in sleeping with other women.

As I was reading the messages, Mike walked into the room and started apologizing. John had also called him, and they had a big argument, ending with John dropping the bombshell that he’d sent all the messages to me. Mike told me he had no explanation for his actions and that I had every right to be angry. I kept asking him why he would do this and how I could ever trust him again.

Mike explained that during our trip last spring, John, Leah, and Mike were drinking late one night while I went to bed early with the kids. After John went to bed, Leah and Mike were chatting. Leah confided that, although John was a perfect husband, she felt something was missing in her life. They were both drunk and talked about what it would be like to open up their marriages. A few days later, Leah messaged Mike privately, asking him to join Telegram so they could talk more discreetly. She wanted his opinion on how to approach John about opening their marriage and asked for his help in case John overreacted.

Mike assured me that he never intended to cheat on me but was fascinated by Leah and John's new lifestyle and was curious. Leah would share details about their experiences, and Mike found it intriguing. He said he never crossed the line, and when Leah tried to send videos, he shut it down. He also admitted that he knew Leah was trying to test me in the bathtub and was curious about my reaction, as he suspected I might feel the same as Leah but was repressing it. He was relieved to find out I wasn’t like Leah. He apologized again and begged me not think of him as a cheater. He knows he crossed many boundaries I would never agree to, but he insists he never thought about cheating on me. He also pleaded with me to consider our kids.

I’ve been struggling with this for the past week and could really use some advice. I think I might be able to forgive Mike for what he did, as he seems genuinely curious and did shut Leah down whenever she tried to cross the line. However, it still feels like a huge betrayal, and I’m not sure if I can ever trust him again. I want my kids to have a stable home and don’t want to make any hasty decisions while I’m emotional. Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you recover from it?

RELEVANT COMMENTS

OOP added additional info

I did not want to post in the main post, but John and Mike had a big fight, and John is not taking any of his calls. We found out from our common friends that Leah was cheating on John with other men, and he found all her telegram messages when he found messages with Mike. I do not know if it was going on from before they decided to start swinging last year, but I would not be surprised.

I will never talk to Leah again; I really wish to reach out to John as he has always been a good friend to me. However, I will wait for some time before I talk to him. I do feel bad for our kids who are all best friends and play video games together online and will have to navigate through this tough situation.

Every_Guard

And normally for your husband if he new she was cheating on John but didn’t say anything that’s scummy, but also because of the open relationship status did he know she was or did he think the other men were just part of the open relationship?

OOP

Mike told me that he did not know about any other men Leah was talking to. She only told him about the encounters that John and Leah had together with other couples.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7