I am still NOT the Original Poster. That is . She posted on and her own page.

Her newest update is over a year old but was never included on this sub. Thanks to for finding it.

Find the previous BORU post . Newest update marked with *****.

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This is an older post, but the final update was never included in a BORU.

Warning: Death of a parent/Spouse

Mood Spoiler: Things are looking up!

Original : March 6, 2023

Throwaway account. My husband unexpectedly passed away a few months ago, and I became a single mother to 3 kids. Age 16M, 14F and 2F. Due to the significant decrease of income, I was no longer able to continue renting where we were, and I all I can afford is a 1 bedroom apartment.

Currently, I am sleeping in the living room with my youngest 2F. I gave the bedroom to my 16M and 14F and asked them to share in the meanwhile. I tried adding a privacy screen in the middle so they feel like they have their own space, but they are telling me that this isn't acceptable. Each of my kids used to have their own rooms, so this is a massive change for them.

I have been looking for a better paying job for months and so far have had no luck. I can't get a 2nd job because I can't afford to pay someone to care for my daughter 2F outside daycare hours. Neither of my kids 16M and 14F are willing to help, and they say my youngest is not their responsibility.

I know this situation isn't ideal, but I don't know what else I can do. For the past month, I've not been eating anything for 2 days a week and just telling the kids I'm trying out the fasting trend for weight loss purposes. But the truth is, I can't afford to feed us all, and I have been using the food bank. Prior to this, I had never had to use food bank services before, and I am so thankful that it exists. I am both thankful and deeply ashamed at the same time.

Would I be the AH for telling my teens that they must share the bedroom? Would it be better if I suggested my son sleep in the living room with me and have both my female kids share the bedroom instead?

I do not live in the US but it is not common for teenagers of opposite sex to share a bedroom. That is something I do absolutely recognize.

Edit: Gosh, I really wasn't expecting so many responses when I checked back. Thank you, everyone. All this time, I did feel it would be unfair to put adult problems on my kids. However, I will be giving them a surface level talk about our finances. I'll also be bringing them with me to the food bank. Hopefully, they'll be more understanding.

Edit 2: (Same Day)

The bedroom is larger than the living room. I am able to fit 2 single beds into the bedroom and the kids have space to store their clothes while still having the room divider in the middle. The living room is smaller. I currently have my youngest and my own clothes stored in the hallway due to lack of space. It is right next to the washroom and kitchen, so there is a lot of foot traffic. The living room also doubles as dining space because there is no dining room.

OOP is voted NTA

Update : March 7, 2023 (Next Day)

I had a chat with my kids after work. I still don't want to put an adult problem onto my kids, so I only gave them a brief overview of the dire financial issues we're having after my husband/their father passed away. Us downsizing to a 1 bedroom apartment was not by choice.

I also told them the truth about how I couldn't afford to feed us all and why I didn't eat 2 days of the week. I was afraid of how they would take the news, but it had gone better than I expected. My kids will be coming with me to the food bank for the next trip to help out.

In terms of the rooming situation, both my older kids agreed that they did not want to share a room with my youngest 2F because she frequently wakes up at night and also has accidents. They also don't want to share with me because I get up much earlier than them to work, and it would disrupt their sleep. They would rather share the room with each other while I continue to sleep in the living room with my youngest.

My 16M and 14F told me that their friends were saying no kid should ever have to watch their sibling because they didn't create them. They've been told by their friends that it's parentification to be asked to babysit for even an hour, and it is never okay in any circumstance. That was why they kept calling me an asshole when I asked if they could help with childcare so I could get a 2nd job.

Now that they know how bad the situation is, my son said he wants to find a part time job to help contribute. My daughter apologized and said it wasn't that she hated me or her sister. Both my son and daughter said they are willing to help take care of the youngest so I can get a 2nd job. Hopefully, I can find something soon and be able to move to a larger space.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Did your kids call you an asshole?

OOP: Not exactly. But I was called an irresponsible parent for pushing my responsibility onto them initially. I asked because I didn't see any other choice. Family helps family. There wasn't anyone else I could have asked.

*****Newest Update : April 12, 2023 (a little over 1 month later)*****

Since my last post explaining my housing situation, I have found a night shift job working security. It only pays minimum wage, and I only get 25 hours per week, but it's at least something. I now work 2 jobs.

So far this job has been very relaxed. There honestly isn't much to do during my shifts, so I'm trying to save up enough money so I can move to somewhere larger as well as take an online training program while working.

I already asked my manager and he said he was okay with me taking remote training while on my shift, as long as there truly is nothing to do and it doesn't negatively impact my ability to work when needed.

Hopefully, I can find a better job after upskilling.

Editor's Note: OOP hasn't been active since April of 2023. I can only hope she and her family are doing well!

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . They posted in and

Thanks to for the rec!

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. Latest update is over 7 days old as per the rules of this sub.

Mood Spoiler: really cool!!!

Original : April 15, 2024

Title: Found a mandible in the travertin floor at my parents house

My parents just got their home renovated with travertin stone. This looks like a section of mandible. Could it be a hominid? Is it usual?

description:

What very much looks like part of a human jaw bone, including teeth.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Dentist with forensic odontology training here: This is a hominid mandible, almost certainly human.

While all old world monkeys, apes, and hominids share the same dental formula, 2-1-2-3, and the individual molars and premolars can look similar, the specific spacing in the mandible itself is very specifically and characteristically human, or at least related and very recent hominid relative/ancestor. Most likely human given the success of the proliferation of H.s. and the (relatively) rapid formation of travertine.

Against modern Homo sapiens, which may not be entirely relevant, the morphology of the mandible is likely not northern European, but more similar to African, middle Eastern, mainland Asian.

OOP: I am a dentist also myself and I look at cbcts all day long which maybe why I immediately noticed it. I fully agree with you.

Commenter: OP, do your parents have any uninstalled extra tiles? You might want to look through them in the off chance you have another slice of the fossil.

OOP: I checked everywhere but I could not find any other slice with this fossil

Commenter: This might be the most interesting post on Reddit I have ever seen.

OOP: I was quite sure it was human when I saw it but did not know how to get in contact with the right persons. Because of the visibility of this post I am now in contact with a paleoanthropology team. They seem happy to have found a fossil on Reddit. Will update soon !

Mini Update in Comments: April 16, 2024 (Next Day)

UPDATE 1: thank you all for your answers I tried to edit the post to give you all an update but I cannot. If anyone can help please DM. Here are the answers to most asked questions.

1/ I don’t think it is Jimmy Hoffa

2/ The quarry seems to be located in Turkey (initially thought it was Spain)

3/ Yes, it is natural Travertin.

4/ in the last 24h we have been reached by several researchers and we are currently discussing how we can get them involved.

5/ we are located in Europe

6/ banana for scale (see attached picture)

7/ it is located in the corridor leading to the terrace (doorframe on the picture)

image

Full Update 1: April 16, 2024

Title: Tile number 2. Found a mandible in the travertin floor at my parents house…

I looked at the other tiles and I have a few suspicious artifacts could this be a slice of femural head? I am a dentist and this is out of my field of expertise.

Here are the answers to most asked questions of last post.

1/ I don’t think it is Jimmy Hoffa 2/ The quarry seems to be located in Turkey (initially thought it was Spain) 3/ Yes, it is natural Travertin. 4/ in the last 24h we have been reached by several researchers and we are currently discussing how we can get them involved. 5/ we are located in Europe 6/ the first tile was in a corridor

Description: less obvious, but there is a similar indent in this tile along with a longer shaped indent

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: I am so desperate to know if it’s possible for the supplier to trace these stones to a location as well as possibly sold pieces. I hope all the info will eventually be available to see as well. I can’t stop refreshing even though I know there’s no chance anything of substance has come up.

OOP: It should be possible, I will update when I know more

Commenter: Yeah, OP, what are you going to do about the floor? If it wasn’t so cool, I’d be pretty annoyed that the contractors installed tiles that have ‘flaws’ in them. The bones/bones imprints would be impossible to clean (dirt would build up in the holes). Are you going to replace all the tiles? Only the ones that obviously have people in them and hope the other ones don’t? Are you going to make contractors come back and redo it?

OOP: They chose “second choice” travertin which means with more flaws than 1st choice so it would be cheaper and less slippery.

OOP Comments on a : Still April 16, 2024

Commenter: Well we have a few comments here, but I just wanted to ask how excited you and your family was to realize just what you had! And how long had they had this tile before you came along and pointed out that it was a fossil mandible?

OOP: Thank you. We are excited but also worried as the house was finished a few months ago and these tiles are everywhere. Yesterday was the first time I came to the newly renovated house, I immediately found out something was odd with this tile. Nobody really noticed before.

Update 2: April 18, 2024 (3 days from OG post)

Title: Reddit: we need you help!

This is a follow up up of my post

Quick summary : last Friday I went to my parents house and found a fossile of mandible embedded in a Travertine tile (12mm thick). The Reddit post got such a great audience that I have been contacted by several teams of world class paleoarcheologists from all over the world. Now there is no doubt we are looking at a hominin mandible (this is NOT Jimmy Hoffa) but we need to remove the tile and send it for analysis: DNA testing, microCT and much more. It is so extraordinary, and removing a tile is not something the paleoarcheologist do on a daily basis so the biggest question we have is how should we do it. How would you proceed to unseal the tile without breaking it? It has been cemented with C2E class cement. Thank you 🙏

description: someone with a paintbrush carefully studying the mandible

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Obviously you would prefer not damaging the other tiles but would it not be better to find another tile to test your methods on? From a quick Google search, it also seems to say the first tile is the hardest one to remove without damage so you may have to start with removing one of the surrounding tiles to make it easier/less risky when removing the mandible tile?

OOP: Very nice advice this is what we are looking for!

Commenter: I'd ask the esteemed paleoarcheologists to fund a professional to remove the tile. If it's as important as they think, I probably wouldn't leave the process to an untrained individual. Tiles are really hard to remove intact once they've been set. If I absolutely had to DIY this, I would probably go for an angle grinder with a diamond blade and prepare for everything to be covered with dust for the next 1000 years.

Plus, someone's going to have to replace that tile for your parents, so you'll probably be calling a tile guy anyway

OOP: Problem is that basically they told us to find a contractor. But how are we supposed to know he will find the best option

Commenter: You said you've been contacted by teams all over the world. You can always contact the next one down the list. I have to imagine that some of these teams are spending a lot more to get a lot less on a fairly regular basis.

OOP: Uncementing a travertine tile out of a kitchen seems to be an uncommon issue for paleoanthropologist (no offense)

Commenter: Absolutely. But they can find the right person as easily as anyone else. I wouldn't want to be putting in all this time for them if someone else is actually willing to do the legwork.

OOP: Someone will come and propose a technique. Just after 100 answers to this post I know better which questions to ask!

Commenter: oscillating multi tool with a masonry bit would be able to remove a significant amount of the mortar around the edges. Then loop a wire saw around the outside and saw the rest out

OOP: Now we talking

Commenter: Seriously, require a Certificate of Insurance, make them source the contractor, or no deal. Good deeds often go punished. Don't get too caught up in the excitement and protect your family and property.

OOP: I am all hears. There is no rush. That tile is not going anywhere until we are not sure how to do it properly

Mini Update in Comments: April 21, 2024 (6 days from OG post, 3 days from last)

Commenter: Any update on this, OP? Did you get it out safely? Did it turn out to just be a boot print or did you crack it?

OOP: Haha we did not do anything yet. The paleoarchelogists we spoke with should come back to us with their options this week. As I now have a Reddit degree in tile removal I will be able to understand what is at stake.

OOP's story is written about in (): April 21, 2024

OOP Comments: Next time I will be more careful choosing a Reddit username. I did not expect this one to be all over the news…

OOP replies to a comment on April 26 (10 days later)

Commenter: OP they showed this in my class yesterday it was super fun to say I saw it before everyone haha

OOP: Aha this picture is everywhere

May 2, 2024: OOP makes ! (): May 2, 2024 (16 days from OG post)

OOP: Very good summary! From asking Reddit to spending 2 hours in a Zoom call with a team of scientists discussing hominin fossils. I did not imagine that career path 2 weeks ago!

Commenter: It's pretty cool to have a photo credit in Nat Geo! I'd put it on my resume haha

OOP: I definitely will !

Editor's note: OOP's story was also written about in the and

Mini Update in : July 23, 2024 (2.5 months later)

The tile is out and safe. It is currently studied but it takes time to get results. I will update if people are interested!

Update 3: August 9, 2024 (almost 4 months from OG post)

Hi everyone,

I guess it’s time for a first update regarding this fossil.

You can find the original post here: 

TL;DR: The fossil is in a lab being studied.

First, I want to thank everyone who responded to the previous posts, as your input helped us connect with the right people. You played a significant role in the success of this story.

After the Reddit post, which reached a phenomenal audience, we received numerous responses from around the world. It quickly became clear that the fossil resembled a hominin (ancient human) and had scientific value that warranted further study. We decided to proceed with a team of renowned archeo-paleontologists. It took a few weeks to determine the best way to remove the tile without risking damage to the fossil.

A few weeks ago, a team of researchers achieved a first: excavating a hominin fossil from the floor of a modern house.

The process took nearly 12 hours, but thanks to their patience and professionalism, they were able to extract it without causing any damage.

For our  friends, here’s how they proceeded: After carefully inspecting the tile, they cut out the relevant section with a disc. They then removed the other parts of the tile and carefully carved out the cement using a manual wire saw.

The tile is now in the lab, where researchers are studying the fossil and the travertine to determine its age, origin, and which hominin it belongs to.

Of course, they also examined the other travertine tiles in the house (around 800 of them) and found several other potentially interesting ones. I’ve attached pictures for reference.

Let me know if you’d like more updates.

Image descriptions:

: the tile with the mandible in a container

: workers getting the tile out

: workers still getting the tile out

: potentially another bone fragment!

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Yes keep us updated! Did you literally find more bones and jawbones in your house? Can I buy your house right now? 🥺

OOP: Aha more bones yes (see picture attached), unfortunately not other jawbones
(to another commenter): Probably a metatarsal bone but hard to say if hominin.

Estimated age:

OOP: Stone is old probably around 1 million years old but we will know more in near future. Fossil would be around the same age. The stone was extracted in Turkey. Again we don’t know yet but it is probably homo erectus.

Cost:

They did not extract any other tile yet. They covered the cost but honestly it was not that expensive.

Commenter: Are the scientists able to contact the tile people and find out where this was quarried? 

Also what’s going to happen to the holes in your floor? Will you replace with another travertine tile or maybe something to commemorate the old time (like maybe a cast concrete faux fossil?)

OOP: They are in contact with the tile people. The missing tile has immediately been replaced but the commemorative cast is a good idea.

Commenter: I didn't realize the tile itself was so thin! That makes this even more amazing.

OOP: 1.2cm !

One last thought from OOP:

I agree there might be fossils everywhere. We should organize a fossil day and get everyone to check their floor. Even though it is only 12mm thick the CT scan is crazy. I will share it when I am allowed to.

DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS. I am NOT OP. Original post by in and by in

Editors Note: OOP’s wife made a Reddit post sharing her side of the story. She originally chose different names for OOP’s brother but changed them to Jack/Liam for ease of reading

AITA for uninviting my adoptive brothers from my wedding after they said they don’t see me as family?

I’m a 32-year-old man, and I’m getting married to my long-time girlfriend soon. What should be one of the happiest moments of my life has turned into a heartbreaking ordeal because of a deepening rift in my family.

To give you some background: I’m my parents’ biological son, and when I was 12, they adopted two boys who were biological siblings—Jack, who was 8, and Liam, who was 5. From the very beginning, it was clear that things were going to be tough. Jack came with severe behavioural issues due to some intense trauma (I’ll spare the details, but it was significant). I tried my hardest to be understanding, but living with him was nothing short of exhausting. His outbursts were constant, and I often felt like I was walking on eggshells, terrified of setting him off.

As we grew older, I continued to try to be there for Jack, despite everything. A few years ago, Jack fell into a devastating drug addiction. I stood by him through his darkest moments, supporting him through rehab, and doing everything I could to help him get back on his feet. It was draining and heartbreaking, but I did it because I loved him and believed that, despite our challenges, we were still brothers.

The situation came to a head recently at a Sunday dinner at my parents’ house. My son was working on his summer homework, which involved creating a family tree. He innocently asked Jack if he wanted to be included, and Jack just flat-out said no. He didn’t want to be part of it because, in his exact words, “We’re not real brothers.” He said it so casually, like it was the most obvious thing in the world, with no regard for how much it would cut me to the core.

I was utterly stunned, but what shattered me even more was that Liam, who I’ve always felt closer to, just sat there in silence. He didn’t say a word. He didn’t defend me or even acknowledge how hurtful Jack’s words were. He just let it happen. I’ve tried so hard to be supportive of both of them, especially Jack, despite the endless challenges. So, for Jack to say that, and for Liam to do nothing, felt like a gut punch. It was as if they were both telling me that I was never truly part of their family.

I decided to uninvite both Jack and Liam from my wedding. My fiancée has been nothing but supportive of my decision, but my parents are furious. They’ve made it clear that if Jack and Liam aren’t invited, they won’t attend either. It feels like history is repeating itself, with my parents once again prioritising Jack over me, no matter how much it hurts me. I’m absolutely heartbroken that my parents would choose to miss my wedding rather than support me in this.

I know Jack has been through a lot, but I’ve done everything I can to be there for him and for Liam, despite all the heartache. And now, I feel like I’m the one being punished for finally standing up for myself and setting some boundaries.

AITA for uninviting my brothers after they said they don’t see me as family, even if it means my parents won’t come to my wedding?

Relevant Comments

lieyera

Why was your kid even asking him in the first place? That could’ve hurt them too. As a child it would’ve never occurred to me not to include my aunts and uncles in a family tree. What did you say in front of your child to plant the idea that he needed to ask them? And did you correct your kid and say that of course his uncles should be on his family tree? You are also to blame in how this rift started because whether intentional or not you also did not correct the idea that you aren’t “real” brothers/family and it was YOUR child that asked the question. Usually, people feel uncomfortable correcting other people’s children in awkward situations like this. It falls on the parents to talk to their child and get to the root of things.

OOP

Because he's 5 and just wanted to show off what he was doing. I have never said anything to "plant" an idea that they aren't my brothers. He doesn't even know they're adopted. Not because it's something we hide, just hasn't ever been something we really discuss as a family.

Add uncles/aunties to the family tree was an optional extension, and he said it in a way of "come and help me add you in if you want to be" not "you don't deserve to be in the tree".

You're honestly clasping at straws here. I have no issue with someone labelling me TAH, but don't just make up context to decide it.

OOP

I don't blame them or him for his drug addiction. Jack (and Liam) had truly horrible things happen to them both as children. Stuff I won't get into here, but you can understand it was the type of stuff that leaves lifelong scars on you. Even with the butt-load of therapy they've gone through.

One time Jack spoke to me about how when he's high on drugs it's the only time in his entire life where he doesn't constantly remember and only time he ever feels at peace.

Obviously, I shouldn't be the one who is constantly picking up the pieces of him. But I can 100% understand why he got into drugs. (He's still an asshole though)

OOP

The family tree, and Jack's comment, was only the catalyst for the argument that happened.

And yes, there would have been no issues with Jack being included in the family tree.

Update: AITA for Uninviting My Adoptive Brothers from My Wedding After They Said They Don’t See Me as Family?

I’m honestly still reeling from everything that’s gone down since my last post. First off, thank you to everyone who took the time to comment—I’ve read through all your advice, and it’s been a lifeline. But buckle up, because things have taken a wild turn.

After hearing from so many of you, I decided I needed to talk to Liam. We met up at a pub, and I just laid it all out there—how hurt I was when he didn’t say anything after Jack made that awful comment about not being “real brothers.” I was half-expecting him to defend himself, but what I got was something entirely different.

Liam confessed that he’s been living in fear of Jack for years. He told me he kept quiet that night because he was terrified of setting Jack off, not because he agreed with him. Then he dropped a bombshell: despite being Jack’s biological brother, he’s felt just as much of an outsider in our family as I have. The constant pressure from our parents to cater to Jack’s every whim has worn him down, too.

Liam assured me that he’s always seen me as his brother and that he regrets not standing up for me sooner. Hearing that was a huge relief. He’s completely on my side now, and we agreed that if Jack can’t respect me as a brother, he has no place at my wedding—or in our lives.

But just when I thought things couldn’t get more intense, my parents decided to make everything worse. I sat them down and explained why I uninvited Jack, hoping they’d understand. Instead, they threw down an ultimatum: if Jack isn’t invited, they’re not coming to my wedding. No room for discussion, no empathy—just flat-out refusal. I was gutted. After all these years of putting Jack’s needs above mine, this is how they repay me?

I couldn’t hold back anymore. I let out all the anger and frustration I’ve been bottling up for years. I told them how I’ve always been the one sacrificing, how they’ve always prioritized Jack, and that I was done being treated like I don’t matter. I made it clear that if they choose not to come to my wedding, they’re making their choice, and I’ll make mine. With that, I walked out, leaving them to stew in their own decisions.

Out of nowhere, Jack started bombarding me with the nastiest, most hurtful texts I’ve ever received. He accused me of turning Liam against him, of ripping the family apart, and had the audacity to call me selfish for “abandoning” him. He ranted about how he never felt like he belonged in the family and how it’s all my fault for pushing him away.

His words hit hard, but they also opened my eyes. Jack has spent his whole life blaming everyone else for his problems, and I’ve been his favourite scapegoat. This time, though, I’m not letting him guilt-trip me. I didn’t even respond—I just blocked his number. If he can’t see what he’s done wrong, then there’s nothing more to say.

Liam was livid when I told him about Jack’s messages. He’s more determined than ever to support me, and we’ve decided to go low-contact with our parents until after the wedding. Liam’s been a rock through all this, helping me with the wedding plans and making sure I’m not dealing with this mess alone.

So, the wedding is still happening, but with a much smaller guest list. My parents haven’t reached out since our argument, and at this point, I don’t care if they show up or not. This day is about me and my fiancée, and I’m not letting anyone, not even my own family, ruin it.

Thank you again for all your support and advice. I’ll keep you posted if anything else happens—though I’m really hoping my next update is just about how amazing the wedding was. Fingers crossed!

Update 2: AITA for Uninviting My Adoptive Brothers from My Wedding After They Said They Don’t See Me as Family?

Hey everyone, I wanted to give an update after everything that’s happened over the last week. A lot has changed, and I’m grateful to say that things are moving in a much better direction.

Two days after the text argument with Jack, he reached out to me. I wasn’t sure what to expect when he asked if we could meet up, and I was reluctant but I agreed. When we sat down, the first thing he did was apologise. He told me how sorry he was for what he said to my son and admitted that he didn’t know why he said it. Jack seemed genuinely remorseful, and I could tell that he really meant it. This wasn’t just another apology to smooth things over—this was different, and it felt sincere.

After apologising, Jack took a deep breath and confessed something that I probably should have seen coming. He told me that he had relapsed before the argument even happened. Hearing that hit me hard. It explained so much about his behaviour in the weeks leading up to that moment—the irritability, the distance, the way he was withdrawing from everyone. I realised that I had missed all the signs. I’m not proud to admit it, but I was so caught up in my frustrations with Jack's behaviours and my wedding that I didn’t stop to think that something deeper might be going on.

Jack’s confession wasn’t just about the relapse—it was about taking responsibility in a way he’s never done before. He went on to tell me that after realising the damage he’d caused, he had made the decision to check himself into treatment. This might sound like a typical step, but for Jack, it was monumental. In the past, Jack’s only gone into treatment because he was either sectioned by social services and forced into it, or because my parents threatened to kick him out if he didn’t get help. But this time, he made the decision on his own. That was something he’d never done before, and it showed me that he was serious about wanting to change. He told me that he is doing this because the prospects of losing me, his brother, was too much and he couldn't handle it. He wants to take this seriously because he wants to show me he can do it. He told me he sees me as his family, and he feels so guilty for making me feel like I wasn't his family. Jack has also agreed to start taking medication to help calm his nerves, something he would never do before.

It’s now been about five/six days since Jack checked himself in for treatment, and I’ve been visiting him regularly. At first, I went alone because I wasn’t sure how my son would feel about seeing Jack so soon after everything that happened. But after a few visits, I felt it was important for my son to see that Jack was making an effort to make things right. So, I brought him along, and Jack took the opportunity to apologise to him directly. It was a really emotional moment for me as a parent. My son is still young and doesn’t fully understand everything that’s been going on, but he could see that Jack was sorry, and that seemed to make a difference to him. They even spent some time together, just talking and playing, and it felt like a big step forward for all of us.

Throughout all of this, my brother Liam has been incredibly supportive. We’ve talked a lot about Jack, and it’s clear that Liam wants to see him succeed just as much as I do. We both know how much Jack’s trauma has affected him, and while it doesn’t excuse his behaviour, it does help us understand why he’s struggled so much. Having Liam by my side through all of this has made me feel a lot less alone.

Reflecting on everything, I’ve come to realise that I need to take responsibility for my part in how things escalated. In the weeks leading up to the argument, Jack had been doing things that really got under my skin. Instead of addressing it calmly, I let my frustration build until I finally snapped. Looking back, I can see that his behaviours were likely tied to his relapse, and I should have seen that sooner. I feel guilty for not recognising the signs and for reacting the way I did, but I’m trying to focus on what I can do to support Jack now that he’s taking his recovery seriously. When I wrote my first two posts, I was in a place of deep frustration with Jack, and though nothing I said was incorrect or a lie, I definitely painted a picture of Jack's most negative moments without everything else.

I want to remind everyone about Jack's trauma. Jack was a victim of severe abuse by his biological family, including extensive CSA, Liam also but Jack's was a lot more intense. Jack jokes now that he was their biological father's "favourite in all the wrong ways". Jack got into drugs at a pretty young age, but has been clean (or so I thought) for a while. I mentioned this before, but Jack has told me in the past that even now almost 20 years after he was adopted by our parents, there is not a day where he doesn't think/have nightmares about his abuse, he says the only moments of peace he gets is when he's high. Jack's trauma runs deep, and it’s something that continues to affect him every day. I’m not making excuses for his actions, but I do think it’s important to remember that he’s dealing with a lot of pain. Despite everything, I still believe in Jack. I believe that he has the strength to overcome his past, and with Liam and me by his side, I’m hopeful that he can get through this.

I also want to take a moment to thank everyone who offered advice and support on my last post. Your words helped me see things from a different perspective and gave me the push I needed to approach this situation with more compassion. There’s still a long road ahead, but I’m optimistic that we’re on the right path now.

For now, things are looking up. Jack is taking his treatment seriously, and our family is slowly healing. We’re taking things one day at a time, and I’m committed to supporting Jack as long as he’s committed to helping himself. Thank you all again for your support—your advice has been invaluable during this difficult time.

Some of you may call me weak, or naive for thinking this time will be different. But I am prepared to take that risk one more time for Jack as he has shown me over the last week he is genuinely wanting treatment and he wants to be better. Jack's told me he wants to earn back his invite, but not to give it him yet. He said he will prove he deservers it. I really hope so.

Relevant comment from OOP

Yeah some therapy would probably be useful, I haven't had it for a long time now. My parents are still being my parents. I've come to realise that every time they get involved in my relationships they just make things worse. But at least things aren't worse than they were before and they apologised to me for saying they wouldn't come to my wedding.

Editors Note: OOP’s wife made a Reddit post sharing her side of the story. She originally chose different names for OOP’s brother but changed them to Jack/Liam for ease of reading

My fiance (32M) promised me he was going to cut off his toxic family, but now he is back trying to save his abusive brother (28M), I want to call off the wedding. Where do I go from here?

I have created a throwaway for this post, my fiance is a redditor (and actually introduced me to reddit). But he doesnt usually come on this sub so I am hoping it will remain unseen by him.

My fiance ("Max") doesnt see it but his parents are extremely manipulative people. His parents adopted his two brothers when Max was about 12 years old, they were 8 ("Jack") and 5 when they were adopted. Max is his parents biological son. From the point of their adoption I get the impression that Max was parentified a lot. His brothers both had pretty severe trauma and because of that they lashed out often. The stories he tells me of their childhood and how his little brothers behaved are horrific, for example smearing poo on his pillows and bedroom walls. Max was treated like another parent and would babysit his younger brothers for extended periods. His parents would then constantly berate Max about his brothers behaviours. And how he isnt taking good enough care of them. The behaviours were from both brothers but mostly from Jack.

Now Jack became an addict in his early teens my fiance says it’s because of the trauma of early life, which I am sure there is a link and about 5 years ago Jack got clean. However, he is still an extremely immature, rude and mean person. Who will constantly blame anyone else for his issues. Max is constantly making excuses for Jack, even when hes rude to me or our son. Jack in the past has texted me harassment from when even the slightest thing doesnt go his way, for example he screamed at me, calling me a "Fat b-tch" because I didnt hear him ask me to pass over the ketchup at a family BBQ. I now refuse to go to family events if I know Jack will be there.

About 3 weeks ago I came to a family meal at Maxs parents house, I was told that Jack would not be there and he wasnt for the first half. However he came late, and instantly I could see he was either high or drunk or something. I havent seen him in a while but it was obvious from that point he had relapsed.

I tried to tell Max because I was uncomfortable and wanted to leave, but Max asked me to stay a bit longer. Which I did (I know I am an idiot, it wont happen ever again). In less than an hour Jack had caused a screaming match and this time it was at my 5 year old son and it was over something incredibly stupid, like always.

As soon as Jack started, I picked up my son and told Max that I am leaving and that he was a pathetic man for letting his brother speak to our son the way he did. To my surprise this seemed to spark something in Max, he defended me and our son. And pointed out how toxic all his family were. He told them they were no longer invited to the wedding and that he never wanted to see any of them. I felt such pride in him.

But not even 3 weeks later Max is already back to his role of trying to save Jack. Jack admitted that he had a drug problem again (I could have told you that from the one meeting I had) and to which Max is acting as if it is a huge shock. I literally told him on the drive home it was obvious Jack was high. Jack went in for treatment and Max is again acting like he needs to drop his life to protect and defend his family, who lets be clear, dont even like him. If he doesnt act like their servant and punching bag they dont talk to him.

I am so disappointed that Max is already back to this after he told me he was going NC with his whole family. And it is making me want to call off the entire wedding. Hes been visiting Jack in treatment everyday (which is against the recommendations of the place), and he said he wants to take our son to see Jack. I said if he takes our son anywhere near Jack again it will mean the end of our relationship. Full stop.

I just dont know what to do, is this the end?

TL;DR: My fiance, Max, has a manipulative family, especially his adopted brother Jack, who has a history of addiction and being rude. Max recently cut them off after Leo screamed at our 5YO son, but now hes back to trying to save Jack, even though its hurting our relationship. Im seriously thinking about calling off the wedding because Max wont set boundaries with his toxic family.

Relevant comment

BleacherBlonde

Is this your fiancee? The similarities are insane. He's made like four posts

OOP’s wife

After reading the first post, that seems like it’s him. I didn’t know he had written about it on Reddit but he’s always on this app so it’s not that surprising.

later

I am shocked to read he’s taken our son to see “Jack”. He promised me he would not do that. That really hurts that he broke my trust like that.

Reminder - I am not the original poster. DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS.

This is a repost. The original was posted in by user ObjectiveNational517. I'm not the original poster. There was a previous BORU by , which you can find .

Status: Concluded according to OOP, pending according to me.

August 7, 2024

So some backstory:

My dad left the family and went no contact when I (35M) was 4. My mom remarried and had two kids with my stepdad. My stepdad never treated me poorly but always made clear that I was Dale (fake name) to him. He was not my dad. My mom never tried to fix the relationship and honestly loved her new family and always saw me as a burden.

That’s what I thought at least until it was confirmed after my freshmen year of college when my mom asked me not to come home anymore. I blocked her after that phone call and have had no contact with her or my stepdad (and half-brother) since then. I do still speak to my half-sister (25F) at her insistence but that’s my only contact.

It took me a long time to deal with basically being kicked out of my family. I grew to be pretty independent and thought I’d live alone until I met my fiance (28F) 4 years ago.

We have had a great relationship and her family opened up and invited me in with open arms. She comes from a pretty typical suburban family and they are great. Over the years I’ve told her about my issues with my family, she has met my sister and she never pushed for more, until we started planning the wedding.

When we started talking about who we would invite I talked about friends from college and co-workers and she kept saying I should invite my parents. At first I thought she was just trying to gauge if I wanted to. I said I would not be inviting my parents. She said okay but then brought it up again the next day. I calmly explained how much they hurt me, how growing up feeling you were unwanted and then having it confirmed at 19 really stunted my mental health. That over the years I have realized it’s their problem and if they ever want to solve it then they can initiate but I am in contact with my sister and it is clear they are happy insisting I don’t exist. It sucks but it’s their problem that they have thrust onto me. I can’t be the one to solve it.

I thought it had ended but she has brought it up two more times. The last one was last night, we were about to start the save the dates and she said “are you sure you don’t want to invite you parents? I feel like I might just invite them on my side.” And I snapped. I told her we should probably just throw the invitations away because if you can’t respect what I’ve been through then I don’t want to marry you. I then went to our bedroom and fumed for awhile. She came in to try to talk to me and I walked out, grabbed my keys and left. I came back around 11pm after hanging with friends and slept on the couch. She left for work without a word to me and I don’t know where we stand. Her behavior is unacceptable but I feel I may have gone too far. What do you all think, AITAH?

August 8, 2024, 1 day later

I’m very overwhelmed by the response. So many thoughtful responses. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I thought I would give an update.

My fiance normally gets home around 5:30pm so after I was done working (I work from home) I waited for her to show up. Got very worried when it was 6 and she still wasn’t home but around 6:15 she shows up with my sister which was a big surprise. While my sister and I connect every Thursday we live 45 minutes away from each other so her popping by is not normal.

Both of them looked very anxious so I was very confused. I asked them what was going on and my sister just bursts into tears and saying she’s sorry. After like 5 minutes of her losing her shit she starts talking about the family. So apparently when she told my mom and Dale that I got engaged it started a rift between them. Not because they cared about me but about how my half brother, which is 27, is still living at home, single with no steady job. If you’re thinking, wow they kicked you out at 19 but let him stay there past when he could rent a car, don’t worry I said it out loud. My mom apparently wants to do the same to my half brother but Dale won’t let her. So they are currently separated. With my mom living family and refusing to come back until my half brother is out of the house.

For some reason that defies all logic and reason my sister thinks getting an invite to my wedding will bring the family together. Since it was my engagement that caused the rift. At this I blew up a bit. I told her that my engagement had nothing to do with it, that their shitty parenting and poor relationship skills caused it and don’t put that shit on me. She cried even harder, and this time I was not going to console her. My fiancé is just sitting there the whole time so while my sister is trying to get herself together I question my fiance about this.

She also tears up a bit but tells me my sister was telling her about how I always bring up the family on our Thursday and that deep down I wanted to repair the relationship. I asked how she could believe that when I was very clear that I was no contact with my family and had never mentioned wanting to be in contact. I told her that I tell her everything and would never hold back something like this without talking to her. She’s always been my sounding board. When I switched jobs last year, we talked about it every night and her advice mattered more than anyone else.

She apologized and then wanted to show me her phone. Specifically the messages between her and my sister. At this point my sister perks up and asks her not to show the phone conversation. But my fiancé tells her she’s trying to save her relationship. My sister has just been straight up lying about our Thursday conversations. Saying how I was always talking about reconciling, how I would never admit it but I’m partially at fault too, how I really want to see them all again. Every time I would tell my fiance no she would text my sister and my sister would talk about how I just couldn’t be open because I was embarrassed. Just completely false. I would be perfectly happy never seeing any of them again. I can’t believe my sister still sees them. At this I tell my half sister to leave and that Thursdays are cancelled.

My sister puts up a little bit of a fight but I ignore her until she leaves. She keeps saying sorry over and over again but honestly I’m done with her. I’ve blocked her and will be no contact with her for the time being. A complete betrayal of my feelings and relationships.

As for my fiancé and I. I am still very upset. She went behind my back with my sister. Never asked me about it. Let my sister manipulate her and honestly hurt me. I told her I love her but my trust is broken. We’ve agreed to go to couples therapy and see if we can repair the relationship. I hope we can but I’d say it’s a toss up for me. She’s got a lot of work to do.

August 15, 2024, 8 days later

A lot has happened I’m just going to try and spill it in order for you all.

So after my sister left, I told my fiance I loved her but I didn’t trust her currently. That I felt she took my sisters side instead of mine. So I continued to sleep on the couch for a couple of nights. She was walking on eggshells around me and I hated it but I also just wasn’t ready to forgive her.

Then Friday night after I hung out with friends, I came home and crashed on the couch. We had had an innocuous conversation but she did ask me to come to bed and I told her I just wasn’t ready. I woke up to pee at like 3am and she was sleeping on the floor next to me. I don’t know why exactly but it touched me deeply and I cried a little bit. It meant so much to know that she wanted to be near me even when I was being unloving. It really turned the tide.

I woke up a few hours later and she was making me breakfast. A surprise as Saturday is usually my big breakfast making day. We sat down to eat and she was keeping the conversation light still on eggshells. But I decided to tell her a story from my childhood. I told her how Dale used to make breakfast for the family, but never included me. I was older so I slept in and when I got up, there was rarely any breakfast left, and if there was it was in the fridge and no one would eat with me. I told her how much Saturday brunch with us meant to me and how I hadn’t really ever talked about it and that wasn’t fair to her.

She looked at me with tears in her eyes. She apologized again but I told her I didn’t need it. That I forgave her and while I still want to do couples therapy because I think it’ll help me express my family issues with her in a healthy way, I’m ready to send out the save the dates. I then asked her to massage my back because the couch was a nightmare to sleep on and she knew I was serious. I don’t love people touching me, except my fiance and I had really not allowed it since the original incident.

I know most of you did not want me to forgive my fiance but I love her. And she loves me. She made a huge mistake but she’s never experienced anything like what I went through. And she showed remorse.

As for my sister, my mom reached out via a phone number that I didn’t recognize and told me I should forgive my sister. I told her to screw off and she just confirmed my sister really had never had a relationship with me at all because if she knew me, she would know that contact with my mom would only make the situation worse. I then blocked the number. This happened Thursday evening.

She tried to come by Sunday but my fiance and I were out. She left a note apologizing and saying she did not ask mom to contact me and she’s sorry she did that. My fiance wants nothing to do with my sister anymore but left the decision up to me. I told her that she was my family so if she didn’t want her there, she wouldn’t be there. A little jab for sure but she took it well and said she didn’t want her there.

We have been getting back to normal. It will still take time and I think I may try individual therapy because as I was thinking about all the incidents I’m not so sure the family situation is worse than even I have acknowledged and it might be time to really deal with it.

The save the dates were sent out yesterday and everything is still on. I’m not sure I’ll update again, but thank you all for letting me process and vent!

I'm not the original poster.

DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS. I am NOT OP. Original post by in , , and on his profile

AIW for refusing to meet my biological mum after in person I signed up for a DNA testing site?

I'm a 24M who was adopted when I was 6 years old. I’ve always felt incredibly lucky because my adoptive parents, who were in their late 20s when they took me in, have been nothing short of amazing. They’ve loved and supported me as if I were their own flesh and blood, and I’ve never felt like anything was missing in my life because of being adopted.

Growing up, I had very minimal details about my adoption. I know that I was removed from my biological family by social services due to neglect and abuse, but I don’t remember anything about my life before I was adopted. It’s not something I’ve dwelled on much because I’ve never felt like I needed those missing pieces to feel complete or valued.

Recently, out of simple curiosity, I decided to sign up for one of those at-home DNA testing kits. I wasn’t looking for a reunion or any deep connection; I just wanted to know more about my genetic history, like why I was removed from my biological family, and if there were any medical issues I should be aware of. Honestly, I didn’t expect to find anyone closely related to me, so it felt like a low-stakes way to get some answers.

About eight weeks after sending off the kit, I finally remembered to check the results, and to my surprise, I matched with my biological mother ("BM"). She had sent me a message saying she was overjoyed that I had done the test and that she desperately wanted to reconnect with me and the rest of my biological family. She mentioned that she’s thought of me every day, that I was always loved, and even that I have a biological little brother who is very excited to meet me—something I didn’t even know.

Her message was really emotional and, to be honest, overwhelming. To me, she’s a complete stranger, and reading those words didn’t stir anything in me other than discomfort. I spent a lot of time crafting a thoughtful response to BM, explaining that while I appreciated her message, I wasn’t interested in forming a relationship with her or any of my biological family. I made it clear that my reason for doing the DNA test was purely informational—I wanted to understand my past, maybe get some medical history, and learn why I was removed, but that was it. I apologized if my actions gave her the wrong impression.

BM read my message and replied, saying that she’d be willing to give me all the information I wanted, but only if I agreed to meet her at a cafe to discuss our relationship further. I refused, telling her that I wasn’t comfortable with a face-to-face meeting. I offered a phone call as a compromise but emphasized that I just wanted the information and then for both of us to move on with our lives.

She outright refused to provide any information unless I agreed to meet with her in person and discuss our relationship.

I talked to my best friend about this, and she sided with BM, saying that I was being unfair. She argued that by signing up for the DNA site, I had essentially opened the door to this kind of situation and that refusing to meet with BM now is like playing mind games and leading them on.

So, AITA for not wanting a relationship with my biological mum after I signed up for the DNA testing site?

Top Comments

Queen_of_Meh1987

NTA. She's holding your info hostage to get you to meet with her, which is her being TA. You were removed for a reason, and she probably wants to fill you with her version.

Since you know her name, can you contact the agency that removed you to request the information?

OOP

I could have always gone through the route of getting in touch with social services and seeing what they can tell me, though I am not sure how much they can share because of data protection, so I just thought it would be easier this way. Also it would have been nice to hear it from my family's perspective, if you get what I mean.

raodek

As a fellow adoptee I vote NTA without question. You don't owe her anything. I'd argue she owes you information though. Something she did caused the adoption to happen and she's awful for holding that information hostage.

Your friend is completely in the wrong and if they aren't adopted I'm not surprised about their opinion. A lot of non-adopted people have really weird opinions on how adoptees should feel and act. Classical one being that we should all feel grateful for our adoptive parents because they "saved" us.

OOP

No they are not adopted, which yeah may explain their perspective. They did annoy me though calling me unfair for not having a relationship with them despite the fact it's not something I've ever wanted. It was unfortunate that BM saw I was on there and messaged me first, and I feel bad that it may have given her false hope. I wish I could have been the first to message to get it out there right away what I was expecting.

specialkk77

NTA. Fellow adoptee here, I did meet my birth mother when I was 16 and I’ve spent the following 16 years regretting it. Mine is selfish and manipulative and pulled the same trick “I’ll tell you everything when I see you” nope. Do not engage. Half of what she told me was outright lies, and she’s desperately tried to wedge herself into my life at every opportunity when I’ve made it clear I do not want her (how does it feel to be unwanted, egg donor? Welcome to my world.)

I’m an adult, I have my own children now. My parents were wonderful people. I didn’t have the best life ever or anything but I was raised by people who loved me and wanted the best for me.

It’s hard, your BM has expectations and you have different ones. The thing is, she’s being unrealistic and unreasonable by holding the info you want hostage. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. It’s not right of her and it’s not fair to you.

OOP

I understood that what she would have told me wouldn't have likely been the objective truth. But I was interested in hearing it from her anyway, in some ways I suppose I was a little curious about her and her life but I didn't want a relationship with her at this point in my life. But that wouldn't have been me saying never, and she didn't tell me how old her other son is but depending I would have possibly been willing to meet him at least.

The fact that she tried to force my hand has left a really sour taste in my mouth, and has made the whole thing icky. I think I have decided I am going to write her a final message about how I didn't appreciate being told I would only be allowed that information if I met up with her and discussed a relationship with her. I think I will say it comes across as manipulative, and that is what put the final nail in the coffin that I certainly don't want anything to do with her.

But does that seem too much? I'm not going overboard by saying that to her am I?

Initial-Company3926

NTA

I honestly find it a bit concerning she is using blackmail to get her way, completely ignoring how you feel. You are not comfortable meeting her, and that is your right and it is okay!

You decided, despite not wanting to, to give her a phonecall instead. She still refused

As I said I am concerned. She doesn´t have your best interest at heart only what she wants I get she wants to meet you, but the only thing she is doing is driving you away with her demands/blackmail

I am so sorry

OOP

It does seem that way to me, I feel better knowing that I wasn't being blind. Though certainly was being naive to think that she would just give me all the information I was looking for. The fact that she is giving me demands makes me more certain that I don't want to meet her.

And the extra thing is, I may have been open to a potential IRL meeting at some point in the future if she didn't try to force me. But now she has, I don’t know, I am feeling pretty confused at the minute. Depending on the age of the son, I may be willing to have some contact with him. But again, it definitely wouldn't be an IRL thing right away.

Update: AIW for refusing to meet my biological mum after in person I signed up for a DNA testing site?

Hey, everyone. It’s been about 9 days since I last posted, and I thought it was time for an update. I really want to thank everyone who took the time to comment and offer advice. I’ve read through everything, and it’s been both helpful and eye-opening.

So, after all the advice and some serious thinking, I decided to talk to my biological mum again, hoping that maybe if I explained myself better, she’d understand where I was coming from. Unfortunately, things went downhill fast. Instead of trying to meet me halfway, she just got more manipulative, insisting that I was being selfish for not wanting to meet her in person. She refused to give me any information unless I agreed to her terms, which was a hard no from me.

I’ve come to realise that I was pretty naive to think that my biological family might be decent people after everything. I mean, I was removed from their care for a reason, but I guess a part of me wanted to believe that people can change. Looking back, I feel kind of dumb for even starting this whole journey. It’s brought up a lot of emotions that I wasn’t really prepared to deal with, and to be honest, I’m feeling pretty down about the whole situation.

And as for my best friend… well, that’s another disappointment. She didn’t just side with my biological mum initially—she’s been unsupportive throughout this whole mess. Even after I told her about the latest conversation, she couldn’t really understand why I was so upset. She kept saying that I should just “give them a chance” and “not be so harsh.” It’s like she doesn’t get how hard this is for me, and I’m starting to feel like she never really did. It’s tough because I’ve always considered her one of my closest friends, but right now, I’m not sure she’s someone I can rely on.

After all this, I decided to sit down with my adoptive parents and talk everything over with them. I hadn’t really opened up to them about how deep this was affecting me, but they were amazing, as always. They were upset when they heard how my biological mum was acting, and they reassured me that none of this is my fault. They reminded me that there’s a reason I was removed from that situation, and it’s not on me to fix it or make things right with people who’ve clearly not changed.

Talking with them made me realise just how lucky I am to have them. They’ve been there for me every step of the way, and they made it clear that whatever happens, they’re my real family—the ones who’ve loved and supported me no matter what. It’s hard not to feel down after everything that’s happened, but having them in my corner makes it a bit easier to cope.

Honestly, I regret even starting this whole DNA journey. It’s brought up more pain than I expected, and I can’t help but wish I’d just left the past where it belongs. But at the same time, I’m grateful that it’s reminded me of how blessed I am to have my adoptive parents. They’re the ones who’ve always been there for me, and I couldn’t ask for a better family.

So, that’s where I’m at. I’m going to focus on the people who truly care about me and let go of the rest. It’s not easy, but I know I’m on the right path. Thanks again to everyone who reached out—it’s really helped me feel less alone in all this.

Take care, everyone.

My favourite memory.

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking a lot about my family today, especially after everything that’s been going on lately. It got me reminiscing about some of the best moments I’ve had with them, and there’s one memory that stands out—something from when I was still a kid that I’ll never forget.

I must have been about 8 years old, just a couple of years after I was adopted. It was around Christmas time, and I remember feeling nervous because it was only my second Christmas with my adoptive parents. Holidays always make me feel weird, even now.

Anyway, my dad's friend owned a Christmas tree farm and that year, my mum and dad decided to take me to pick our Christmas tree. We spent what felt like hours walking through rows and rows of trees. My parents kept asking me which one I liked best, and I remember feeling so much pressure, like I had to pick the absolute best one or else I’d ruin Christmas. But they were so patient, letting me take my time.

Finally, I pointed out a tree—honestly, it looked like every other one to me, but my parents made a huge deal out of it. My dad knelt down to start sawing, and I remember him pretending to struggle, saying, “Oh no, I think this tree might be too strong for me!” My dad made me come over and help me, saying he couldn't do it alone.

So, there I was, this little 8YO, pretending to help my dad saw down this tree. Of course, I wasn’t actually doing anything, but they made me feel like I was the strongest kid in the world. When the tree finally fell, my dad swept me up in his arms and spun me around, saying, “We did it!”

After we got home and set up the tree, my mum brought out these old boxes full of ornaments. She told me that we were going to start a new tradition—every year, we’d each pick out one new ornament to add to the tree, something that represented something special from that year.

That night, they handed me my very first ornament—a little wooden bear holding a heart with the word “Family” carved into it. My mum said, “This one’s for you, because you made our family complete.” I remember holding that ornament, feeling this huge wave of love and belonging that I’d never really felt before. At the time, I don't think it even hit me how impactful that was. How that moment defines the way I look at myself today. I was part of a loving family. I was their family.

Every Christmas after that, we’d pull out that little wooden bear and hang it up first. It became our tradition. The reason I’ve been thinking about this memory today is because it’s a reminder of how lucky I am to have the parents I do. They didn’t just give me a home—they gave me a sense of belonging and they gave me love. Even with everything that’s been going on, I know that I’ve got something really special, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share this. I just needed to remind myself how amazing my family is, and I hope it brings a smile to your face like it does to mine.

Reminder - I am not the original poster. DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS.

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My [24F] best friend [23F] did something horrible at a mutual family friend's wedding, and blamed it on my younger sister [19F]. I am considering cutting ties with her but am having a hard time.

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, slander

  Oct 10, 2016

Hi Reddit!

This is a bit of an unusual situation, but I'll try to explain it as best as I can. The story involves myself [24F], my best friend Caroline [23F], my younger sister Nicola [19F], and our mutual friend / groomsman Daniel [28M].

Using real names because I know Caroline doesn't Reddit, and if anyone who witnessed this happens to see this I'd love for them to get the ACTUAL facts of the story.

So over the weekend a very good family friend of both my family and Caroline's family was getting married. Caroline and I have been best friends for years - we met when we were toddlers, our moms are best friends, our sisters are friends, etc etc - you get the picture. We knew that both of our families would be invited to this wedding and we were looking forward to it for months. It's important to note that Caroline's family and my family have a ton of mutual friends, and this was going to be a very large wedding (guest count was in the 500s).

Everything was going fine and dandy until Caroline got completely wasted. She kept talking to me about how hot one of the groomsmen (Daniel) was, and how she'd had a crush on him for years but he showed no interest. This was probably because he was in a serious relationship and had been dating his current girlfriend for ~6 years. The girlfriend decided not to attend this wedding because she didn't know the bride and groom very well and because Daniel would be a groomsmen she wouldn't see him very much either.

Fast forward a couple of hours and Caroline is hanging all over Daniel. She's constantly asking him to dance with her, get her drinks from the open bar, etc. She's point blank throwing herself at him and it was embarassing and painful to watch. I tried intervening a couple of times to get her off of him, but she snapped at me and at that point I decided that it wasn't my problem. Furthermore, Daniel wasn't completely pushing her away! He looked like he had a few drinks in him as well and seemed somewhat interested in Caroline. I decided that if he didn't care I certainly wasn't going to. If he wanted to throw his relationship away it was none of my concern. I tried.

I didn't witness this next part, but by the end of the night Caroline and Daniel were having sex in a different room of the hall (yes it escalated quickly). To their misfortune, someone (I'm not sure who, just that it was someone's mom who knew Daniel and his girlfriend, but didn't know Caroline) walked in on them, and for some reason Caroline told this woman that she was Nicola (my sister)!! I don't know if she was embarrassed or drunk or what, but she purposely identified herself as Nicola so Caroline herself would not be in trouble.

Word QUICKLY spread that Daniel and Nicola were caught having sex, and Nicola was mortified. People were talking about how disrespectful, homewrecking, rude, slutty Nicola was! I honestly can't even blame them - had I not known better, I would be thinking the same things. On top of that, Caroline had gone around actually telling other people that it was Nicola and confirming the rumour she started!

The bride and groom were pissed, everyone was talking badly about my sister and Caroline seemed to not care. In fact, when I confronted her about the situation at the wedding she straight up denied it! Had Daniel not confirmed that it was Caroline he was hooking up with and not Nicola I might have even believed her.

The next day Caroline texted Nicola a half hearted apology about the whole thing, saying she was "so drunk" and "didn't know what she was doing." The texts included a lot of "lol"s and "haha"s, so I'm not sure how seriously Caroline is taking the situation. She doesn't seem to realize how mortified Nicola is. Nicola genuinely thinks that her life is ruined. We live in a very tight knit community, and a lot of people have heard the false version of what went down.

I'm at odds with what to do. Up until this point, Caroline had been a very good friend to both I and Nicola. I'm just not sure if I can forgive her for this, especially considering her lack of consciousness about how bad the situation really is. Should I dump her? Or should I give her another chance? Our friendship will be different regardless, my family sees Caroline in a completely different light now, so even if I forgave her we wouldn't be able to do a lot of the same things we used to (hang out at my house, do things with my family, etc).

What should I do, Reddit?

EDIT: At this point, a lot of people know that it was Caroline with Daniel, and not Nicola. However I'm not sure how many is "a lot." Our family friends know, but there were a lot of guests at the wedding who knew Caroline's family better than they did mine. I'm sure these people still think it was Nicola.

EDIT 2: Another issue is that Nicola is also terrified of the potential ramifications from Daniel's current girlfriend. I have absolutely no updates on the situation with the girlfriend, I don't know her well and I don't know what Daniel has chosen to share with her, if anything at all.

EDIT 3: Because a lot of people are asking me how I could even consider remaining friends with Caroline - prior to this experience, she was honestly a great best friend. Of course we've had our ups and downs like all friends do, but she has always been a kind and caring person and I really valued our friendship. I've known her my whole life and the evening at the wedding was very uncharacteristic of her (including her coming onto a man who was in a relationship). Throwing away a friendship with someone who you have been close with for 15+ years is extremely difficult, however am I prepared to do this if it's the right thing to do.

tl;dr: Best friend hooked up with a taken groomsman at a mutual friend's wedding, when got caught said she was my sister. Everyone was upset with my sister and I don't know how to proceed.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

OtherKindofMermaid

If Caroline wants to continue your friendship, she needs to make this right and tell everyone that she lied. If she doesn't, then I would personally cut ties. Being drunk is no excuse for what she did.

I think Nicola needs to stand up for herself, as well. She should be very clear with people that she would never do something like that. Tell her not to let someone else ruin her reputation. If Caroline won't set the record straight, Nicola, you, and your family can.

OOP

Thanks for the suggestion - I haven't actually considered asking Caroline to go public and own up to the situation. I think I'll do this, I actually have no idea how she will react. Caroline is usually a decently moral person but she also hates confrontation so I wonder how she'll take that.

My family and I have been trying to set the record straight but it's really hard to un-do a rumour that has spread around to so many people (a lot of which we are not that close with), mostly because nobody actually wants to talk about it to us directly. Most of the talk goes on behind our backs but of course we know it's happening.

  Oct 16, 2016 (6 days later)

First off, I wanted to give a HUGE thank you to everyone who responded. I definitely did not expect such a large of amount of help and guidance from everyone. This community is awesome and I really appreciate everyone's time and advice. I unfortunately could not respond to very many people's posts as I left the thread overnight and once I woke up it was locked, so I figured the least I could do is provide an update.

So about a week and a half ago Caroline casually called me and asked to sleep over. She wanted to attend an event downtown and my place was much closer to the event than hers. At this point, it became very clear that Caroline had no idea anybody was upset with her, despite the fact that Nicola and I hadn't spoken with her since the wedding. I told Caroline that I didn't think her sleeping over was a good idea, and when she had asked why, I brought up what happened at the wedding. She laughed and said Nicola needed to grow up and get over it, and it really seemed like she expected me to agree and laugh along with her!

Well Reddit, I took your advice and let her have it. I told her how selfish and inconsiderate she was, and if it truly was "no big deal," then she should have no problem taking full responsibility for her actions and publicly acknowledging that SHE was the one who hooked up with Daniel, and not Nicola. I told her she needed to make things right because Nicola was still mortified over something she didn't do.

At the end of the phone call I gave her an ultimatum - post an apology to Facebook, and spill the beans about what actually happened, or our friendship was over (thanks to the Redditor who suggested this!). To my complete and utter surprise, she did it. I thought it would make me feel better, but people were actually commenting on her FB status commending her bravery, and the fact that she "did the right thing!" I was super annoyed because of course she would never have done this had I not forced her to. But at the end of the day, Nicola is happy and her name is in the clear.

Oh, and an update on Daniel and his girlfriend: According to his Instagram, they are happily together. Whether or not she knows about Caroline, I don't know and I don't care. Not my trainwreck.

tl;dr: Gave Caroline an ultimatum to post the truth on Facebook or stop being friends. She posted it on Facebook. Daniel and his girlfriend are still happily together. I'm still rolling my eyes.

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Aita for putting a hidden camera in my office

Originally posted to

Thanks to & for suggesting this BoRU

TRIGGER WARNING: property damage, sexual harassment, hostile workplace, bullying, xenophobia

  Aug 18, 2024

AITAH for putting a hidden camera in my office..

I know this sounds bad but please reserve judgement until you read my story.

I, 35F, am a Moroccan living and working in the US. I work for a big corporation with worldwide locations. When I started working there was a colleague of mine, M37, who always made jokes about being in love with me etc.. I knew these weren’t just jokes but his way of telling me he was interested. I don’t shit were I eat so I just ignored it. He then started calling me his “almond eye”. I always corrected him and told him to call me by my name. I told him if he wouldn’t stop I would call him “banana nose”.

Listen I don’t know why I said that because his nose is normal, it’s just something that came to my mind. He laughed it off but never called me that again.. since two months we have a new colleague, M36. I was working from home the first two days he started. When I met him he was very distant.. acted as if he doesn’t like me. Don’t get me wrong I’m a very nice person, so for me this was weird but I respected him and his space so I didnt make an effort to see what was going on.

Last week I discovered he made a huge mistake. I can’t go into details about what because you would guess the corporation, but it was a big one. Even though he acted like a jerk to me I didn’t want him to get into trouble so I stayed in the office with him until passed midnight to solve the issue. And I never reported it. But then.. when I got up to leave he asked me to wait because he wanted to talk to me. He asked me why I hated him so much.

My flabber was gasted! I asked him what he meant because in my opinion he was the ass. He started telling me that the first day he got here he was mentored by banana-nose. And banana-nose told him: watch out for her because she is Muslim and has told everyone over en over again that gay people should be banned.

First: sir I came from Morocco to work here, who the hell am I to want to ban someone? Secondly: my religion teaches me to accept anddd respect everyone. New guy went on to say that he had doubts after tonight because I could have fed him to the wolves but in stead helped him out. But then came the worst part. New guy told me that banana-nose goes into my office when I work from home and get this: sits naked on my chair to punish me for being a prude! I asked new guy to not tell anyone what he told me. And now I want to get a hidden camera and install it in my office. I want to first ask HR if it’s not against office policy but yeah.. I definitely want to catch his ass, literally. Would I be the asshole if I did that?

Updated same day

UPDATE:

Well it is very nice meeting you all! I have never in my life read so many ideas to make someone’s butt itch or hurt.. the things we can achieve if we just work together 😁.. I had a talk to HR.. I requested an urgent meeting. I didn’t tell them everything because I know what they would do, they would “investigate” and then come back with: “it’s just a rumor”. Banana nose is very loved and I don’t want to put new guy in a bad place. So I told them I’m afraid someone might be sneaking in my office because all my stuff gets misplaced. Since I have a higher position at this company they took it real serious real fast. So my dear comfies.. camera is in its place. And I will be working from home the next couple of days!

Updated Aug 20, 2024

Update 2:

Hey everyone.. I guess thanks for being curious and creative. Before I get to the update I would like to explain where my office is and how banana-nose was able to do what he did. My office is at the end of the hall. The only room that’s facing my office is a utility room/supply closet. We all have offices on the same floor. And with “we” I mean the members of our team. I know it might seem naive of me but I never questioned new guy. I’ve never told him anything about how banana-nose treats me and how he calls me a prude. So for him to make that leap seemed .. excessive.

Now for the update. Today was my first day working from home since the camera’s were placed. After working for a few hours I got a call from HR to come to work. My heart was beating so fast and I literally can’t remember how I got there. The nerves were eating at me.. I got to the HR department which is one floor above us and I noticed everyone staring at me. The head of the department was sitting in a room with a couple of other people. They started talking.. I couldn’t listen. Things like: we as a company bla bla bla. I stopped them and said I couldn’t bare listening to a Ted talk and I wanted to know what was going on.

Last night when I already went home and the camera was installed for maybe an hour, banana-nose entered my office. HR asked me if I wanted to see the video or if I just want them to explain what happened.. as if it’s a nature documentary. I told them I definitely wanted to see the video. I will first start by saying what I saw objectively. Banana nose entered my office and the door behind him was still open he looked over his shoulder and it looked like he was talking to someone while taking his pants off. Then.. it happend he sat on my chair butt ass naked. He took some candy from my desk and started dancing? on my chair, rubbing his butt in my chairs DNA. I got sick to my stomach. He then took my pens one by one and licked them. It looked like he was still talking. There was no sound. So I wasn’t sure.

Then the worst thing happened. 2 years ago I lost my 7 year old niece to cancer. On my desk is a picture of her and I the last time we got to hug. So you can clearly see it’s not only a child but a sick one. This evil man rubbed his penis all over my picture frame and laughed so hard. He took out his phone.. made a call and then left. I started crying like a baby. I feel violated. I feel used. I feel unsafe. HR guy was talking but I didn’t hear anything. I saw myself in the reflection of the window and I stopped. Wiped away my tears and asked what the next steps are. HR said banana nose was asked to come in later and they would fire him on the spot. It seemed to me like they thought that that was enough for me.

I told them firing him is step one. I wanted to know who he was talking to and demanded to see the security tapes for the hallway. You can’t see into my office on these tapes but I know for a fact you can see who is standing in the hall. HR accepted my request and asked security for the tapes. It takes some time but they expect to get it sometime tomorrow..

For now I feel unsafe everywhere I go. When I got in my car all I could think about was: maybe he was in my car. Maybe he was in my home. I know that sounds crazy but .. I feel crazy. I will do my best to update you all.. for now I just need.. I don’t know what I need yet.. thank you all.. ❤️

Update 3 posted Aug 21 Same post

Update 3 maybe final update.. :

First I want to thank everyone.. your support and kind words helped me when I couldn’t sleep.. having this feeling of being alone .. may it come back to you to benefit your lives.. each one of you ❤️.. I don’t know where to start.. forgive my brain giving up on me. It has been a lot. I have viewed the tapes and what I saw was .. I don’t know. It was clear he was talking to someone. I too thought it could be new guy. But it wasn’t. New guy was seen on tape at the beginning of the hall turning his back and leaving. Banana nose was giving a show in my office for 4 of my coworkers. 1 male 2 female. Two of them I trained. All three of them I helped when they made many many mistakes.. they stood by the door while he danced and filmed him. One of the females started to fist pump.. it was disgusting.

Before going to HR to view the tape. I did my research. I read in my contract that when there is a conflict of serious nature that can’t be solved that it needs to be taken to the board for review and judgement. I knew that if I asked for them all to be fired that it wouldn’t be a problem. Because like I said : many many mistakes. So I came up with a different idea. I asked for a compensation from the firm and all parties involved of a million dollars per person. I know .. ridiculous.. ridiculous enough to get me in front of the board. To get themmm in front of the board. And I can’t wait to show these tapes in front of 11 rich old men and 1 female. Who all have a lot of influence in our field of business.

But most of all I can’t wait to look them in the eye and ask them why? I know their answer wouldn’t change anything but it would give away who they truly are.

Banana-nose isn’t fired yet. When I got home after our meeting, HR guy told me they want to wait until they have the full story so nothing was unanswered. After today I asked them not to fire him because the board-meeting would be useless. And if he quits he will lose all his benefits. So this way.. he has little choice but to show up to the meeting where I will do my dance.

I don’t know if I’ll stay at this company even though I love to work here. Because I can’t believe that there is any way where it would be possible for new guy to know this info and all my other colleagues not. Yesterday I drove to new guys house.. I told him I never mentioned his name. I want him to have peace and not be afraid that other people will act out against him as some sort of vengeance. His secret is safe with me.. some people asked me what I would do if someone read this from work. Let me say it like this.. I work with a bunch of nerds. Not the good kind that’s on Reddit. But the bad kind that thinks TMZ is what keeps you up to date. They use words like: “ whatevaaaa” .. I bet you can picture them now. And if they do show up here and read all of this. So be it.. I couldn’t cope without all of you. I have no family here and I thought my coworkers where my friends.. I guess we all make mistakes..

Again thank you all for everything! I kinda love you guys.. just make sure you never say “whatevaaaa”.

❤️

The Finale…

Dear comfies..

An hour ago I got the news that everyone involved quit their job. They got their notice that they have to appear in front of the board and they didn’t want that. By everyone involved I also mean 1 other person that was not on the tape but knew of it and was involved on different occasions.. this was something that happened frequently. When they first had to come to HR and watch the tapes they said it was just a joke that got out of hand. One of them even tried to say that I knew of it.. they wanted to first keep their job and asked for a group session to “work things out”. But when HR said there would be a board meeting, they resigned the next day. As for me, I handed in my notice but this wasn’t accepted. The company offered me a better paying job in a different location. They will help me with relocation and everything.. I’m glad that I got this chance. Since I have a more senior position I need a well rounded, trustworthy assistant. I asked for new guy.. they agreed with it and new guy was very excited. Our relocation is closer at his boyfriends house and I’m glad that I don’t have to leave him behind at a toxic environment.

I guess this is my finale update. I decided not to sue.. I don’t ever want to think about what he did ever again. And I don’t want to put my energy towards this kind of toxicity. And I know one thing for certain. You get what you give.. thank you all for your loving messages. I wish nothing but the best for all of you.. ❤️❤️❤️

RELEVANT COMMENTS

inkblot101

There's no both sides of the story for HR to get here, that video pretty much requires immediate termination.

Either you have excellent grounds for a very big lawsuit or this is a creative writing project.

OOP

It wasn’t about the both stories.. he explained that he wanted to first know who was in the hallway so he would know if there were executives involved. I guess we will never know if there were. This definitely isn’t a project or whatever.. this is my life right now.. I can’t sleep can’t eat. I keep going over every interaction I ever had with them. Trying to think of something I could have done to deserve this.. I have nightmares of banana-nose poisoning my food, or standing by my bed. Yesterday I dreamt he was at my nieces grave.. dancing on her.. thoughts like: maybe he did something to the brakes of my car or maybe he is hiding somewhere in my house keep popping up. It’s crazy.. It’s crazy that I had a good life here. I was happy.. felt safe. And now everything changed..

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

Thanks to for finding this BORU

1 update - Medium

- 22nd August 2024

- 23rd August 2024

Original BORU posted by

1 New Update

- 25th August 2024

AITA for telling my boyfriend, that I will wear a head scarf, when he grows his foreskin back?

My (F24) boyfriend (M28) is a Muslim. He usually is not very traditional. We don't live in a Muslim country.

The other day he told me, that as soon as we get engaged, I will need to wear a headscarf to cover my hair. I am very proud of my long wavy hair and a headscarf is absolutely out of the question and he knows that.

When we first met, he even told me, that he doesn't like that tradition and that his girlfriend will never have to wear one.

Now yesterday we had a real fight about it. His parents want us to get engaged and engagement means the future bride has to cover her hair.

It got a heated argument and I ended it with: "I will wear the damn thing, as soon as you grow your foreskin back!"

He left without saying a word and went to his parents place. Silence since then.

AITAH?

...............................................

Edit:

I will not wear a head scarf. If that means, that the engagement isn't going to happen, then it will not happen.

I got down voted for stating that I love him. Please keep in mind, that the fight is less than 24 hours ago and I miss him. We had a very good relationship for 1,5 years and never fought before. We were planning on moving in together after getting engaged.

I will not convert to his religion, he knows that and his mother seemed fine with it. His father never said anything about it. I am Christian and will stay Christian.

People assume that his family is behind the head scarf idea. I am not sure about it, but it might be possible. If they are, they were good at hiding it, since they never said anything.

His family immigrated 3 generations ago into the mostly Christian country we live at. He himself never visited the country (Libya) his great grandparents on his fathers side came from. The family on his mother's side I don't know.

Comments

Orsombre

NTA, but I suggest you to reconsider your engagement with someone who 1) changed his mind or 2) lied to you.

calvin-not-Hobbes

Right? If he's changing the rules with an engagement , think of what he'll do when it comes to kids.

Steups13

Bless you. He didn't change his mind. He was faking it so he can get sex. As soon as marriage comes up he reverts. He was never modern. He's just a hypocrite.

melli_milli

I have heard this is not uncommon if you come from strongly religious family. The man might suddenly stop shaving/trimming the beard and even start wearing traditional clothes. And the family values.... They insist to go with the older gen values. And they become controlling.

This is just beginning. I do love the headline.

NTA

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 1 day later

Allright, this is all complicated.

I called my boyfriend (?) this morning. He didn't answer, his mother did.

I told her that I would like him to come get his stuff from my place, since this relationship will not work out any longer.

She told me, that he came home yesterday, all quiet and sad. After his father asked him what happened, he told them what I said. Apparently this caused his father to giggle, before he told his son that my reaction has been obvious all along and that he isn't surprised at all.

Turns out, the parents aren't the religious influence, it's the uncle on the fathers side. Apparently he told my boyfriend, that the guests at the engagement party (its a big deal with this culture, with about a hundred people, they come from everywhere and probably bring their whole household, the dog and the neighbors) will probably have a heart attack when they see a pale blonde fiancée without a head scarf.

My boyfriend must have had a very deep conversation with this uncle about tradition and being the oldest son and all that stuff. Basically brainwashing.

Long story short, he is my ex boyfriend now.

His mother will come by tonight to get his stuff.

Comments

Top_Loan1807

Nice, his parents sound really unproblematic! :)

Talinn_Makaren

Totally. Weird reversal on the expression that you don't just marry the spouse you marry the family. In this case it was the prospective spouse that was the issue.

Ok-Repeat8069

I mean, it was a family member, just not the parents. I’ve seen almost as many relationships ruined by jealous enmeshed siblings as parents.

TheGrumpyNic

Can you ditch him but keep his parents? They sound like a hoot

MyyWifeRocks

I’m also on team #KeepTheParents!

New Update

Update 2: AITA for telling my boyfriend, that I will wear a head scarf, when he grows his foreskin back? - 1 day later

First of all: I am shocked how much response my posts got. I would have never thought that people would care so much. I was expecting like 20 answers, but NEVER would I have thought that this will blow up like that!

You guys are fantastic, you've been like therapy and I really needed that. So many loving and supportive answers, so many people helping me to do the right thing.

THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart

My life has been an emotional rollercoaster the last 3 days. The future I had planned is gone, but I guess it was for the best.

So here is what happened last night.

My ex boyfriends mother came over to get his stuff. Some clothes, shoes, socks, books, his toothbrush and deodorant, stuff like that.

She brought dinner (it was chicken with bulgur and this woman is a fantastic cook!) and we sat down to talk. She told me some things I didn't know before.

It's not the first time my ex messed up big time with a girl he wanted to marry. When he was 22, he was in a serious relationship with a very western, very independent red head. Pale skin like me, not a Muslim drop of blood in her. They got along great. But when it came to the question of engagement, the uncle took the boy aside and told him, that this wasn't working if the girl wouldn't change her looks and her behavior.

The relationship ended and my ex boyfriends father got loud. He told his son, that he needs to decide what he wanted. If he wanted to live a western life style, it would be fine, but if he wanted to have a traditional wife, he needs to find someone that is raised that way.

Fast forward 4,5 years and he started dating me. His father warned him not to mess it up again and that was the last time he said anything about it.

His mother hoped he would be smarter this time.

The uncle is a very traditional man. His daughters both wear head scarfs since puberty, so does his wife. He prays, he follows the rules and since he has no son of his own, he kind of decided that my ex boyfriend (the oldest son in his family) is like a son to him.

About my almost mother in law: she wears a scarf herself. I asked her why she does and she was a little embarrassed. She told me, that she wasn't always wearing one when she was younger. But she started to get grey hair after her second son was born in her late twenties and at some point she decided that a scarf is cheaper than the salon. So she covered her head on and off. She got used to it at some point and then didn't go back. Strange, I know. But I haven't been in her situation and it's not my right to judge her.

After dinner we packed my ex's stuff in two big shopping bags and my ex boyfriends father came to help his wife carry the bags. He told me, that he is sorry about his son's behavior.

So, that's it. I am single now.

Do I hope he comes to his senses and reaches out to me sometimes in the future? A little.

Do I believe that will happen? No.

Comments

littlelivbug_

It appears her Ex is infact the conflicted one here, yikes.

xxsarahbrooksxx

Extensively, he knew this went against her ethics and she was just as clear about her stand from the onset. So yes he takes the fall for this one and NO she isn't the AS for refusing to compromise!

MyyWifeRocks

I’m still officially team:

KeepTheParents!!

These people are golden. I’d seriously check in on them from time to time. Life rarely gives you people like this.

OOP: Yeah, I'm gonna miss them.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The general answer: this is crossing a line. Now is this truly the husband's fault? discusses

Yeah but nobody’s perfect in a relationship. He should have communicated with her and tried to work it out instead of cheating

He probably has. She is probably always too tired, has a headache, isn’t in the mood, on her period, or whatever other bullshit excuse she can come up with.

Is the hint "More blowjobs for the next husband"? Because the hint certainly can't be that this is somehow her fault.

(...)If a sex worker that can barely speak That's what blows my mind in these deadbedrooms situations. Here is a guy that basically dedicated his life to you, and you can't even be bothered to PRETEND to want him sexually more than a $100 random Thai lady that doesn't even speak the language can.

doesn’t excuse cheating, she should definitely leave his ass

So a few times, the husband has had a massage and a hand job and once a blow job ( the latter he didn't like) and you are giving the OP advice to break a martial, loving and financial bond? We don't know anything over what the OP has presented.

Let’s ask her how many times she’s denied his advances in the last year? How many times they’ve had sex? Would she prefer they get divorced so he can find sexual fulfillment elsewhere, or stay married to someone she doesn’t fuck but gets mad at for cheating?

This. A man getting his needs met at home most likely doesn’t do this. That said, he should address those issues and breakup if he isn’t satisfied. Problem is, he might see his partner as family, a best friend, emotional support. How do you give all that up just because you need physical affection for you to feel worth anything.

When women cheat: Empowered female, in control of her body in its prime. When men cheat: Betrayer who only thinks with his dick.

Ya, but they would surely tolerate their husbands’ needs NOT being met.

Edit: links

This was originally by . There was an update a few months later that didn't get posted. Scroll down to 🔴🔴🔴 for the newest update. I've also updated margiebabie's mood spoiler given the update.

I am NOT OOP. OOP is 

Originally posted to 

I'm leaving my family

Trigger warning: forced marriage, religious coercion, abused, infidelity, harassment

Mood spoiler: Hopeful

 posted on August 6, 2023

I'm typing this in a mix of fear and nerves. I am the youngest (22) of five kids M30, M28, F28 (twins) and F25. My parent's are heavily religious and we live in Utah. Growing up, everything had to be done perfectly it didnt matter if it was grades, looks, social activities or even friends. I'm different from my siblings as I was never interested in the maths and science like they were. I've always been the writer, the painter. I remember once when I was 13, I made a painting of a dove in a snowy field and won 1st in the competition. I told my parents who got angry that I had 'wasted my time with something so worthless when I should have been using the time to study.' I still had A's in every class. My mother won't even say more than a few words to me, she's always seemes like she hates me and I don't understand.

Father burned the painting to remind me of what was truly important before taking all of my art supplies until I showed more responsibility with my time. It's been like this as long as I can remember. I work full time, and have since I was 15 at McDonalds dashing every bit of money I could. Father took half my checks as 'tithing' to help teach me what being an adult was like. I applied to several colleges but was told by my parents that they would not be helping me with tuition as they did for my siblings because they thought sending me to college would just be a waste of money.

So I got angry. I am so tired of being the black sheep just because I like the arts more than maths and science. And then, I heard them talking when I got up in the middle of the night about the 'perfect man' they'd found who is willing to take me in. Through our church. I am terrified, and so I'm leaving. I've got some money saved up, a good amount and I'm leaving the country. I found a job that lets me work remote doing freelance design work and I've had my passport since I was a kid because of our family vacations overseas. I'm taking nothing other than a change of clothes, my laptop and important documents I took out of my father's office. I booked a flight that leaves in five hours and I'm never coming back. I'm not even going to take my phone since I'd need to get a new number anyway.

My best friend, god bless her, had been the one booking things and getting everything ready since I couldn't tip off my parents. She's also smuggled some of my more important things I can't take to hold onto for me. She's parking down the street and I'll leave with my smallest suitcase to me her. I don't know how they'll take this, I'm terrified they'll find a way to drag me back, or track me down. They went to bed over an hour ago, but I'm too anxious to sleep.

I don't know if I'll have any updates, but I just hope they don't stop me.

: I'm Leaving (Left) My Family (posted on August 10, 2023)

Wow, so much has been happening lately that it’s kept my head on a swivel constantly. I’ll start with the good part of the update before moving on to the less… happy bits.

So, I was advised to remove the location destination from my post, so all I will say is that I’m in South Africa right now and it’s amazing. The food is astonishing, and a poster here messaged me to recommend that I try ‘Bunny Chow’ which is actual authentic curry in a bread bowl, it was phenomenal. I got to chatting with one of the hotel staff, she’s about my age and we really hit it off. She went with me to a local shopping center to get some new and better clothes. At least I’m used to wearing dresses, so that doesn’t phase me and they’re very light weight and breathable unlike a lot of US dress fabrics. She also told me to always shake out my shoes every morning just in case. I’ve started apartment hunting, and it’s well within my budget, like super low compared to how sky high it is in the US. It’s honestly jaw-dropping. Like $81 dollars for a studio apartment with a loft and kitchenette. So yeah, housing won’t be an issue, and it is a bit odd to be house… shopping? For myself when I’ve always lived with my parents.

Now onto the less pleasant bits. I finally opened the emails, deciding it was best to probably get it over with. My father’s email was filled with anger, there is no other way to put it. He said that by taking off irresponsibly like I did cost them the friendship of someone they’d planned on introducing to me. He never admitted that it was the 53 year old they’d basically sold me to. Father stated that because of the social relations that had been damaged and impacted by my actions, I owe them approximately $85,000 in reparations. He also claims that he will be taking me to court if I don’t pay it in full within 30 days and return home as I obviously cannot be trusted. I plan to ignore that as I believe him to be bluffing. He ended his email/rant with “You belong to me, and I won’t tolerate such defiance when we’ve put a roof over your head and taken care of you for your entire life. You were never the child we expected, it’s time you make up for your deficiencies. I expect you home within the next two weeks.” Yeah. No.

My Siblings were basically copies of my father’s email, admonishing me for throwing the efforts of our parent’s in their faces before running off like a coward unwilling to face the fallout of my actions. I skimmed them honestly, before just deleting them. It’s nothing I didn’t expect. However, my sister in law, she’s married to my eldest brother, sent her own email before asking me not to reply as she would be deleting every sign she sent it from her end. She congratulated me on stepping out on my own and getting away from my parent’s and their demands. She said that she herself hadn’t been strong willed enough to stand up to her parent’s when they basically betrothed her to my brother. Which makes sense as I remember that they met and then married within 6 months, and even then I thought that was a bit strange. She pleaded with me not to return, and not to reply. That was it. It was a bit unnerving honestly, as I do believe her, and I’m sad that she is stuck the way she is.

The last email was from my best friend. She said that the morning after I flew out, my parent’s had been on their doorstep demanding to see me. Apparently they believed I was hiding with her. They refused to leave, screaming for me to stop pretending I wasn’t there. It caused enough of a scene that the police were called, but they only talked to my parent’s briefly and let them leave. It really angered my friend, who’d wanted them arrested for threats and trespassing. The police only claimed that there “Wasn’t a pattern of behavior that would warrant them being arrested and charged.” Before just leaving. She didn’t know when they realized I wasn’t there at her house, but they didn’t come back thankfully. However, word has spread of me ‘fleeing the safety of my parent’s home’ and how they wanted me to return as they ‘were concerned and fearful of what may happen with me out on the streets alone’. The church ward has actually done searches of the area trying to find me. I don’t know what they’ll do from here, but they have no idea I left the country, let alone the state. My friend has no plans to say anything, and neither do I. As far as I’m concerned right now, they can live with that state of wondering for the rest of eternity.

I don’t think I will renounce my US Citizenship, as there may come a day when I need it and it’s better to be safe than sorry. But I have full plans to gain dual citizenship as soon as I am able to. That’s it for now, no other parts yet, but if anything changes I’ll let you know. I want to thank you all for your comments and private messages, it feels like I’ve got friends and family on my side and I cannot tell you how much that means to me. Truly, thank you, all of you.

 posted on August 11, 2023

So much advice and support from everyone, I cannot thank you all enough. I thought with all the comments and questions I thought I’d answer here and explain what’s happened since my last post. Ironically, my use of maths instead of just math comes from my mother who is British and met my father in England when they were 22.

So I do come by it naturally and my siblings say it that way as well. I thank you for drawing my attention to the tt videos broadcasting my story, though why they changed the name I don’t know. I did report them but we’ll have to see if they ever pull the videos down or at least edit them. Second is people questioning why I chose South Africa and Johannesburg of all places because of how dangerous it can be. I do understand the risks, but there is nowhere on this planet that is inherently danger free. Africa is massive and incredibly diverse, finding someone would be very difficult and because those videos got so much attention I have left Johannesburg sadly. I’m very far though obviously still in Africa.

The area I’m in now is incredibly safe, and came highly recommended by several people. Settling here will be very comfortable and the people are wonderful. I may even attend the university here and get a degree.

I haven't replied to the emails, but I have saved them and printed copies and laminating them just in case. I will not be renouncing my US Citizenship, and my passport is good for another 8 years. I don't hate religion, regardless of what it is. In my eyes, a persons relationship with God is incredibly personal. If a person connects with him via camping, or walks, long drives listening to music, acts of service - that's their choice and it’s just as valid in my opinion as sitting in a pew is. Possibly more as they're at honest with themselves instead of just putting on a false façade for the public eye.

I plan on ignoring any further emails from my family, other than printing them out just in case. They’ve made several phone calls to my friend whose had fun with them.

“The first time your father called yelling that I hand you over I pretended to be cowed and gave him your ‘location’, it took him to a strip club. He came back screaming at how I head embarrassed him, I just hung up on him honestly.”

She did that each time they called, giving a different location each time. Her favorite was sending my parents to a nudist retreat, my mother passed out apparently. My friend is looking to move and eventually plans to join me but will jump around a bit so that they don't follow her to me.

I did finally read my uncle’s email, but it was just a copy of my father's with the added comment that he and his fellow cops would be looking for me to bring me home safe before I ‘got myself in trouble and hurt.’ I am being watchful, and I know better than to wander into dark alleyways and abandoned places. That’s all I’ve got for now, if anything changes I’ll let you all know. It’s heartwarming seeing and reading how many people are on my side and in my corner. I’ve actually begun printing out everyone’s messages and comments to put in a binder I can look back on later. Truly thank you all, I mean it.

Relevant comment:

On being forced to marry even though OOP is an adult:

OP: Pressure via local church wards, it is easier to move on when I don't have them standing over me forcing their choices in place of my own. I honestly don't know if I'd be strong willed enough to stand up to my father in person just yet. Maybe one day in the future when I know who I am outside of what I've been forced to be.

 posted on August 26, 2023

Hello everyone, it’s been a while since my last update and a few things have happened that I was told by my friend that I needed to share since everyone was still clearly rooting for me.

I have settled in a bit here, and am now enjoying the fun of paperwork, oh so much paperwork. I have secured an apartment, and while it’s two bedrooms, one is for my friend when she comes to join me. I’ve made a few acquaintances here locally and am beginning to stand on my own a bit. My biggest challenge has been dealing with feeling uncomfortable because I don’t know all of those ‘unspoken rules’ the way I did in the US. As such, I’m constantly second guessing myself but hopefully that will fade with time.

So… Family. My family has learned I left the state, how they did, I’m not sure. They do, however, seem convinced that I am still in the continental US. My friend works as a cartoonist, and while she doesn’t make a large amount of money, she makes more than enough to live comfortably. She’s getting ready to leave herself and decided to send my parents a… farewell gift. She didn’t tell me about this until just a little bit ago. She spent a few hours carefully drawing my parent’s as they visited each location she sent them to, including their reactions and all scenes were ended with the phrase ‘Abade-Abade-Abade That’s All Folks.’

Sadly while I’ve never seen looney tunes? As she named it, she said she portrayed my dad as similar to a… coyote? I’m still not a 100% sure what that means, but she said everyone else would. Before then ordering me to watch it. Maybe one day. She should be joining me around October 9th, after country hopping several times. All the things she hasn’t sold are in a secured storage unit, including the things she’s been holding for me.

The biggest… revelation came after my father… well he had a meltdown apparently after I never responded to him. He got into a fight with my mother in church, and many things were said. Among those, according to several that my mother had cheated on my father, which, well… led to me. Which is why she never liked me I guess as I just reminded her of her mistakes. My father took her back in spite of that, but well, there it is. It caused a big stir in the ward, and meetings were held though I obviously don’t know what was said or done. I may never know honestly. I am trying to move on and am even contemplating getting a tattoo. Part of me really wants to, while another points out that if I … change enough and father finds me, he won’t want me then.

That’s all really for now. I’m not sure if I’ll have anything else to share but if anything happens I’ll let you all know. Thank you for all the messages and comments, I do read them all. And it means more than you’ll ever know.

🔴🔴🔴

Hello everyone, sorry this update has taken so long. Once my friend arrived things got really hectic. She’s been settling in well, and it has been a huge relief to have her here with me, as it gives me a sense of security that I didn’t really have before. We’ve been taking time to build new routines, finding a new normal I guess that works for us both. It’s been a challenge but at the same time, everything has been so different one day to the next that it’s kept the days from seeming boring or blurring together.

One of the elderly neighbors I’ve been talking to a lot since I moved here has also invited the both of us to spend Christmas with her and her family. They’re going to have a goat as the main meat, which is different but I’m excited to try. It’s odd to not see Christmas trees everywhere, but that’s still a new thing so it’s not common here. But her granddaughter is teaching my friend and I some of the dances we’ll be doing, as Christmas celebrations here a more like a festive party and gathering rather than a slow day spent with just gifts.

It’s odd, as even in my family we’d only every be given three gifts. One for our body, one for the mind and the last for the soul to honor the trinity according to my parents. Last year I think I received a new Sunday dress, a set of physics textbooks and a new log journal for my scripture reading. After gift openings we’d each retreat to our rooms and remain there until dinner was ready usually made by mother and myself. Yet here, they’re planning on doing our hair, having dances and music with food and laughter. Gifts are still given obviously but the day is spent more with those around you than on material things.

I’m… excited. I’ve decided to ignore my family for now. I’ve gotten a lot of questions on why I didn’t report them or confront them and the answer is easy and may seem a bit… childish but the thought of facing them like that terrifies me. I just – I don’t want to be around them, talk to them or think about them. I’m genuinely scared that trying to ‘bring justice’ will only drag me right back into the mess I ran from. I’m 22 and yet I’m terrified of my own family. So that’s why I’m not doing anything to them, I just want to pretend, even if only for a bit that my life isn’t messed up and freakish, if that makes any sense at all.

I don’t know where I will be a year from now, but somehow, the thought doesn’t worry me. I’m… I’m happy, genuinely happy, and excited to see where things will go from here. Thank you everyone. Really I mean it. Looking back, it’s mind-blowing how things have changed, and there is still so much I get to do!

I know there are people here from all over the world, I'd love to hear your holiday traditions I don't care if it's not Christmas I'd just love to hear what you do this time of year and your traditions. I'm trying to figure out my new normal, and what I like so I'd love any suggestions be it food, music, dances, anything really!

**I am not The OOP, OOP is

Slight chance my (39M) pregnant wife (38F) had an affair, should I ask for a paternity test or wait?

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: possible infidelity, fertility issues

  May 9, 2024

My wife (38F) and I (39M) have been together for 12 years.  I don't know how to describe it other than calling it the perfect relationship.  I think in 12 years we've only ever gotten to the point of really raising our voices at one another maybe 2 or 3 times?  We do everything together but always have never had issues allowing each other to lead our own lives and follow our own interests.  We bought a house where we wanted.... we both have good high paying jobs that have great work life balance. Basically it's been everything short of perfect.

We've been trying for 2 years to get pregnant and it hadn't been happening. We were just about to start the fertility stuff when I came home from a work trip, and guess what she's pregnant.  I had this weird instant thought of....  Wait I thought we didn't try during the week last month because of the fertility testing...  But I couldn't remember exactly because to be honest... We were busy at it.  So I just assumed I miss remembered.

Now, I travel around the country pretty regularly for work. Other than COVID, I've been on the road as much as 40 weeks a year sometimes.  Since COVID its been less but still more than a week a month.

Over the last 4-5 years my wife has gotten very friendly with a guy she works with, let's call him Matt. Matt is slightly younger, I think 34M or so. I know him, he's married, I know his wife.  They've worked together for I think 7 years or so.  He's always been around, him and I have been friendly.   Have I ever thought something was happening? No, but I've always thought.... You'd be a fool to not think there's even a 1% chance your spouse would go outside the relationship.  Maybe I'm naive, but I've always seen it as a safeguard to not take my wife or any other partner in the past for granted.   She's never given me a reason to think she'd do that. But anything is possible.

So about a month ago I'm out of state for work and she's at home. I ask her what she's doing earlier in the day and she says Matt is coming by for dinner.  Not out of the ordinary, Matt comes by from time to time. Sometimes with his wife, sometimes without, sometimes when I'm not there.  I don't think much of it.

We have a security system which includes cameras both inside and outside of the house which we installed after an unrelated incident a few years ago.  They record and are live accessable by both her and I.  I often use those cameras to check on the dog when I or both of us are away, as the rest of the system is monitored by a company Incase of an alarm going off.

She knows I check those cameras, there's a system installed where I can talk through them. I'll mess with my wife and she will with me on them if either of us are out of town (she travels for work as well, but far less than I do).  Point is, it's known that I check them often when I'm not at home. 

So I turn on the camera and I see my 4 months pregnant wife, lying on the floor, on her side with Matt sitting, straddling her legs and using a foam roller to message her hips.  So I'm like.... Ok... What the fuck is this.  I start rewinding through the footage and they are eating and talking normally, but then they get on the couch and get under the same blanket.  Now...... They are feet to feet, but that couch isn't that big.  Then they move to the floor and that's when I logged in.

Anyway I text her, I'm still watching the cameras they both look like deer in headlights and he very quickly leaves.  We get into an argument she isn't mad at me accusing her but she's adamant that nothing has or ever would happen, and that what I saw was innocent and she was complaining about being in pain from the pregnancy.... Which I know is true shes already having some issues with back pain etc..  The biggest point of that discussion was I asked "If I were there would you two have been comfortable doing any of that Infront of me" and she reluctantly admitted...  No probably not.   I told her I didn't want to talk after that and we'd talk when I got home 3 days later. 

That's when It hit me..... What if my weird gut moment feeling about her telling me she was finally pregnant, was... This.  What if my 1% happened and this is not my child we are having?

Now, it eats away at my while I'm at a hotel alone a thousand miles away for 3 days.  I reconcile with myself that... I think it's less likely than more likely that something between them has happened.  But Basically my 1% just jumped to.... 10% 20% maybe? 

I get home and she's on eggshells and doesn't mention it.  I kinda wait to see what she's going to do.  2 days later she finally brings it up and breaks down.  Swears nothing has happened she would never. Doesn't do anything over the top to try and prove anything... Which I took as a good sign.  But anyway we talk out the issue and everything to a point of at least moving forward for now. I'm still coping and dealing with it figuring out how to re trust after all this time.

I'm getting more and more understanding of the fact that they are friends they've been friends for so long, maybe he has intentions.... But I don't see her having any and I've never really picked up on it and I've spent time around both of them together many many times, and never caught anything.

So the thing that is destroying me right now is.... If I'm wrong and something did happen... While I can figure out how to deal with that... What if that child isn't mine.    In the argument and few long conversations we've had about the situation since I've never brought that up, and she's not mentioned it.  Mostly because I don't want to make the situation worse and crush her if infact she's telling the truth, which I mostly Believe.

The only thing I can think to do at this point is to wait until the baby is born and immediately order a paternity test in secret.  Should I do that?  Should I tell her and have it dealt with now?  If you're a woman in her shoes and you're telling the truth, would that destroy you, or your view of me?  If you're lying what would you do if I asked?  I don't want to ask a super vague question but..... What do I do?!

TLDR:  very small chance my wife of 12yrs had an affair and she's 4 months pregnant and I can't bring myself to ask for a paternity test for fear of crushing her if nothing actually happened. But I am planning on doing it in secret when the baby comes. What do I do?

Update: Soo many comments.  Thank you everyone more than I can address directly but I'm going to keep reading a few things.

1 stop DMing me about this, thanks.

2 some have made some good points about addressing it now rather than later and that's something that I'm considering more than I was before, thank you.

3 to those focused only on my relationship. I get it but that's not what I'm focused on.  We've been talking about it a lot.  My wife and I are pretty open people with each other. I'm not saying I'm convinced nothing happened but I'm more focused on paternity right now.

4 if I need to track, spy on, life360, my wife. Then this relationship is over already.  That's not the relationship we have and not one that I ever want, and in my opinion not one anyone should ever have.  We are working on rebuilding trust. As I said in this long winded post my default of 1% possibility went up to 10% or so.  Trust me I'm taking my relationship seriously but to those I've said this to already.  If the kid isn't mine, then there's no longer any conversation to have.

5 I've already had this discussion with my lawyer, I don't live in a state where the birth certificate stuff will be an issue.  If I have paperwork that this child isn't mine than divorce isn't going to be much of an issue.  Both of us are in an independent financial situation where it won't matter much regardless.

I'll keep up with this post as long as I can and post an update when and if anything gets resolved.

  May 10, 2024

Update: Slight chance my (39M) pregnant wife (38F) had an affair, should I ask for a paternity test or wait?

Here's the original post from yesterday.

So she was out of state on a business trip until late last night.  It's Friday so she worked from home in our kitchen.  So I asked to talk and brought it up and asked for a test.

She immediately said yes and said there's zero doubt and nothing that she'd even have a second to worry about. But she has no problem doing it now. The only caveat I left it with is.  If it's invasive at all per our doctors then I'm ok waiting until it's low risk. (I'm not a doctor, no clue what they'd have to do to do it now)

So not sure when we are. But she's aware and we are getting one.  It was a decent and longer conversation.  We are currently sitting together getting lunch.  She's got no clue I did this on Reddit.  Hence the new account because she is on here somewhere.

Thank you everyone for your help and opinions, a bunch of you made me realize that we are already really open about everything and if nothing happened then she wouldn't worry about getting one.  

I was more worried about her health and adding some insane level of stress if it was an issue as she's an at risk pregnancy and it took soooooo long for us to get pregnant.

So again thank you all for the help.   I suppose I can update if it's mine or not but I'm not sure how long that will be. I'm...  90-95% sure it is mine. But this will help us continue this conversation.

Thank you.

Update:  just because it seems to be more of a topic on this post vs the other one for some reason.... Yes I have the footage.  No I haven't talked to Matt yet.  He's told her he wants to talk about it but I've told them to wait on that. My relationship with my wife and the paternity is what's important right now.  I will eventually talk with Matt.

No I'm not going to get Matt's wife involved intentionally.  I don't know why I would other to just be vindictive.  I'm not going to cover for him obviously but his relationship is his. And mine is mine.  I'm not interested in making this worse.  Whatever is going on between him and his wife isn't any of my business.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

OOP when asked why his wife thought she could be intimate with someone else

We've talked about it at length nothing is being ignored. I could write you an essay about our past, her reasons and my feelings on it.   But instead I'll just say.   I'm aware of it. She's claiming innocence of anything further but at the same time admitting that it wasn't a good look but she wasn't thinking about it at the time.  And that's what we are currently working through.

When told it doesnt look innocent and asked if his wife goes to Matt's house when his wife isn't home

She's 4 months.  I was home.  And we had been on the clock..... To the point of the days blending together, trust me.

We are pretty open people and pretty comfortable with ourselves and each other.  I don't know if she's been to his house without his wife. I mean the 3 and 4 of us all hang out probably once or twice a month but they work directly together everyday and have for years. So obviously there's a closeness there.  They are both upper management in their company.  And at my company I have long term friends that are women.  I've traveled with them we've done dinner and hung out in hotel rooms together.  But I've never done anything because, that's not me. I'm married and love my wife and my life. I have no reason to.

So I mean the optics are bad. I just have to decide if it's only the optics.  Or if she has a reason too.  Maybe he has a reason too and that's what I saw?  That I'm not sure about. But that comes down to, do I trust her to handle that.  She says if that's the case she's never noticed it.  And she hangs out with him and his wife just about as much as he hangs out with us.  She works in a building right near them.   My company is based out of Chicago and I live on one of the coasts. So my coworker friends are much more spread out. We can't go to the bar to grab afterwork drinks any day like they can.  Honestly I usually go to their work hangouts more than mine because of that.  I'm friendly with her CEO because of it. 

So is it perfect? No.  But I've always trusted her, I've never had a reason not to. In 15 years, this is the first, crack or dent in it.

OOP gives a clearer description of what happened that day

That's not what I saw.  She said something,  he froze.  Said something I couldn't hear she said no no don't worry about it. He put something in the dishwasher and she walked him out to the front door.  He didn't dive out the window.

You have to remember this is Reddit.  I'm not putting every single nuanced detail in this because that would take me hours to write and I'm not putting my security footage on the Internet for strangers to see.  The reason I have the security system in the first place is because of a stranger on the internet.

I'm not saying anything beyond that didn't happen for sure between them.  I'm saying I don't know now and I don't have any proof. That's what my wife and I are discussing just about every day and what we are working through.

The original point of the post was..... The only thing we hadn't talked about was paternity because I don't want to put her in a situation where she medically loses the child.  Mine or not.

Not only have I not been able to put every single nuanced thing in this I've also sprinkled in false details about our lives, nothing pertinent to what happened but other mundane details.  I was a very small public figure at one point. And some low life from the Internet traveled across the country to make death threats against us because of something warped in his head.  To the point where the federal government had to get involved. 

People in here are wildly jumping at conclusions with much less information than I have and ignoring the original point of the post and the original questions asked.

Has he told Matt's wife

She is my wife's friend's wife.  We don't meet up and knit together.  I know her through my wife.  I see her maybe once every few months at a bar after work, or if they come by for dinner or to hang out.    We aren't besties.

Again what should I go tell her.  Hey your husband was at my house. I knew he was there and I saw him run a foam roller over the outside of my wife's hip while he was sitting on her feet.....  It's super obvious they are fucking and Even though I'm not sure.  It's possible she's carrying his baby.

This isn't a soap opera.  There's nothing I KNOW that I can tell her so why would she take my word on what tiny evidence there is. And why or how in the world would that help my situation?  If all of this is false now I've destroyed my relationship for acting like a child trying to drum up drama for what obviously looks like being vindictive, and I put them in the same situation we are in now....  For something THAT I DON'T KNOW IS TRUE YET.

I believe you have entirely lost the plot here.

NEW UPDATE

  Aug 21, 2024

Update #2: Slight chance my (39M) pregnant wife (38F) had an affair, should I ask for a paternity test or wait?

I'm an old man at heart and I didn't understand how update bot works.  So here's your next update I also edited this into the last update.

Update#2.

Hi folks.  So I haven't been touching this account at all as I was mostly bombarded by people telling me I'm an AI, wishing my wife a miscarriage, claiming she's going to get a secret abortion to "save herself". Or that I'm a clown for not "keeping it real" and destroying someone else's marriage over speculation only.

I'm amazed that people are still following this and invested in it after all this time.

Here's where we are at:

Yes my wife is still very much pregnant. She's in the hard to pick things up off the floor stage.  She's due in 8 weeks.... Holy shit 6 weeks actually, just looked at the calendar.  We are getting weekly ultrasounds at this point.  He's already about 5 lbs and has a big ol head.

Her and I had some very long direct conversations about everything.  She is adamant that nothing has ever happened and nothing ever would.  For a while she was pretty upset with herself for causing this and causing my feelings of doubt. I've done my best to remedy that as I've gotta keep stress off her as much as possible right now... But it will for sure be revisited after the birth.  As I've been saying the entire time... I'm really only worried about the child and the birth going well etc.   well... Mostly maybe not "only"

The only thing we still really disagree on is I thought he was getting too close because he had developed feelings or was getting attention that he wasn't getting elsewhere maybe etc.  she doesn't see it that way but has also said it's possible but if so she was blind to it. 

I told her I wanted a paternity test and she immediately agreed to it and said no problem at all.  My only stipulation was that it couldn't be medically risky or stress inducing at all as she's a high risk pregnancy.

We both spoke to her doctors about it and they basically told us that our only option was to go to the courthouse because they wouldn't do one without the law involved..... Which we both thought was ridiculous. Her doctor was a bit thrown off by it so I didn't press very hard, it was honestly her pretty much demanding it.  I knew there were other options.

I looked into those other options and ultimately decided to wait until the birth and I have a lab already set up to do it, ready to go.

I'm 95% sure it's unnecessary but... I'm still getting one for my peace of mind and mostly so that nothing will come between me and my child. 

For those of you that have left me messages of support that I didn't get back to. Thank you. I'm going to spend some time going through them tonight before I run off again.

For those of you who've left messages that think I should be acting like a 17 year old highschool student and either getting violent, purposely cheating on my wife to prove a point, or other childish trash... thanks for the entertainment at least.  Stop watching TLC, and tiktok. that dumbass drama ain't the way kiddos.

And to the one person who suggested I "cause an accident" with my wife, I hope you end up behind bars some day. 

It's really likely I'm not going to come back here after tonight until after I get the results from the lab.  So if you're really still interested in the results come back in 1.5-2 months I've been told the results take about 48 hours once submitted.    I'll give you your Maury moment then.

OOP Answers questions in a comment

Just as a preempt I'm going to post something I responded to someone else on the last post just a minute ago but I likely won't check this account until after the birth after this:

Comment #1.  People seem to be reading into the reasons I thought all this was more than what I said. I've seen "dude...they were in bed together.. you caught them" or "they were cuddling under a blanket..".  Totally get how the telephone game works... But I never said any of that.

So I'll clarify I guess.  Here's exactly what I saw.  They were on the sectional couch in my livingroom at either ends under the same large blanket, feet to feet.

The "massage".  She was laying on the floor in her side he was sitting by her feet and rolling one of those big foam rollers on her back and side, which is something I do all the time because she's been complaining about back and outer hip pain.

Still enough for me to raise a concern with her... But people seem to be reading into that as....  They were basically dry humping and thought you couldn't see.

Comment #2 I'm being told that I'm being oblivious and ignoring the obvious. And letting her and him off the hook.  This is a direct comment I left someone giving my thoughts on that

I think they said something like "this is what guys who choose to have their head in the sand say"

My response:

"Yea I'm pretty well aware of that.  I've also stated many times that my wife is a high at risk pregnancy so I've decided to try and not explode things until I know something for a fact and risk what would potentially be the only opportunity I have to have a child at my age.

If it turns out I'm wrong and that happens because I blew all this up over nothing I don't know how I could live with myself.... And my marriage likely wouldn't survive that anyway....

Soooo I don't see that as a winning option.  If I deal with it calmly and like an adult and If I'm wrong.... Then great, we can move on. 

And if I'm right then.... It can still be dealt with accordingly with facts and not speculation.

If the child is mine, and the birth goes well... Then we have a healthy child and I can deal with the remainder of any damage she has or hasn't done without risking potentially the only child I'm going to have.

Trust me. I'm not ignoring it, I'm choosing to support my wife to get through the pregnancy first.... Then I'll deal with the rest of it.

It's probably been the hardest thing I've ever done emotionally.... But here we are..."

(End of copied comment.)

I know I'm a sarcastic SOB in some of these comments, but honestly thank you for everyone's concern and I have gotten some good advice from people....  Mostly this has been a bit cathartic to write all this down as...  Most of my friends are toxic dudes who are more interested in fighting about golf or some other pointless shit.  Love em.... But I don't really have anyone other than her to talk to about any of this. So honestly thank you.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Ongoing as per OOP

Content warning: self harm, PPD

3 updates - Long

- 13th January 2024

- 18th January 2024

- 23rd February 2024

- 31st July 2024

1 New Update

- 16th August 2024

I (25m) think my wife (23f) is starting to resent me

the title says, I think my wife (lets call her Amy) hates me. We’ve been together since 2018, married since 2022. We had twins last January and since then she has changed so much.

When she and I first started going out, she was very clear that she never wanted children. She had a copper IUD in and said she intended to get her tubes removed once it expired. But the day came and she had the IUD removed, and was told that they wouldn’t allow her to get her tubes tied because she was too young. She asked me to get snipped, but I didn’t have medical insurance at the time so couldn’t afford to do so.

A few months later she said she changed her mind and wanted to try for children, so we did. She had two miscarriages before she got pregnant with our identical twin boys. I was extremely happy, and despite her being sick constantly she seemed happy too. She gave birth when she was 32 weeks and the boys spent 7 weeks in the NICU. My wife took this really hard, she constantly blamed herself because she worked up until she had to give birth, and says that had she done the bedrest like her doctors suggested, our boys wouldve stayed in longer. She also beat herself up a lot over not being able to breastfeed. She never established a milk supply because she was so stressed after birth and ended up with some kind of infection, and was told any milk she pumped after antibiotics wouldve needed to be dumped.

After that point she was extremely distant from me and our kids. While I was on paternity leave, I was the main care taker of the boys. I changed all their diapers, fed them, bathed them, everything. I took them to all their doctors appointments by myself and my wife just laid in bed, completely shut out.

My wife was supposed to start back up work remotely, but her job decided to not allow remote work. This sent her into a spiral because they ended up terminated her position. Without her working we couldn’t afford child care so she just stayed home all day with the boys. She didn’t cook or clean, and talked about how she hated being home all day and how she missed working.

We fought constantly because I felt like it was unfair, I wanted to be home all day doing nothing. I wanted to be a stay at home dad, and she was taking it all for granted.

Well now the boys are a year old, and i feel like nothing has changed. She still just sits and stares blankly, barely talking to me or engaging with our boys. I constantly ask her to help around the house, or to literally anything besides sit and stare. She looks like shes lost 30 pounds since giving birth and she’s so pale, but whenever I mention anything to her she just yells at me to leave her alone. Our sex life is almost nonexistent, and when we are having sex she just lies there, not making any sounds or moving.

I feel like she hates me and hates our kids, and the life we’ve built. How to I talk to her?? I am close to taking the boys and asking for a divorce because I am tired of talking to a wall.

Edit/Update: I wanted to jump on here and give clarification for word choices I made while in the heat of the moment. I posted this right after an argument with my wife because I was just so hurt and angry and confused.

I said I wanted to be able to be a stay at home dad and do nothing all day. I worded it this way because many times (including yesterday) I have come home from work and my boys are in their cribs, wearing dirty diapers with rashes while my wife is either sleeping or completely zoned out on the rocking chair. It has felt like she has done nothing all day, but it isn’t true and I know that.

“Are you completely unaware of postpartum depression” is a question I was asked a LOT. And the truth is, yes. I live in Texas where sex ed doesn’t really exist. I was never taught anything about pregnancy, labor and delivery, or the 4th trimester (postpartum). Doctors never gave us information on it, it was mentioned once in the beginning of her pregnancy by a doctor in passing, but I neglected to ask for clarification or do any research on my own. I also failed my wife by not bothering to google her symptoms, which could have easily shown me postpartum depression.

“How did you let this go on for a year without asking for help or advice?” This is not a good excuse, but I didn’t know that this was a hormonal issue at all. I genuinely believed my wife was just being neglectful and emotionally distant because she hated me and hated being a mom. I work almost daily, usually 12 hour shifts on a construction site, so coming home to a messy house, fussy babies and having to clean everything and make dinner just resulted in anger on my side, so I just let that frustration build rather than try to understand her.

“Do you have any friends or family who can help?” Unfortunately we don’t. My mom is out of the picture, and my father is dead. My wife’s family was abusive to her growing up, and our friends abandoned us due to rumors my mom spread online, where she was telling everyone my wife had two abortions rather than two miscarriages.

“You have been having sex with her when she isn’t emotionally involved?” I should have added more details here, and can see why a lot of people were angry at my comment about our sex life. I honestly thought it was important to add that it has been nonexistent, and when we had sex she was uninvolved. My wife after birth was the only one to initiate intimacy, and I believe now it was out of guilt. We haven’t had sex in months because I don’t say yes anymore and I don’t ask for it. I shouldn’t have said yes previously and I know it was wrong of me.

“Do you even love your wife?” Of course I love her. I posted this out of anger and frustration, because I believed that it was she who didn’t love me anymore and I thought I was the main problem. I made it all about me when it isn’t me at all, it’s this disgusting and awful disorder that comes after giving birth. I was just so angry because I have asked her to get help so many times and she has either yelled at me to leave her alone or she has just stayed quiet.

But now I know that I need to get her help, regardless of if she wants help or not. I am getting her signed up for an intensive outpatient therapy program that is online, so she doesn’t have to deal with the trauma of going back to a hospital. I am also going to be hiring cleaning help so my wife has someone home with her, and someone who is able to clean and take care of the chores while my wife is emotionally incapable.

I am so sorry to all the birth givers out there who have experienced this hell my wife has been going through, and I feel for the parents who have had to watch their partners go through this. I wish I had informed myself of what was happening and I can only try better from here on out. I haven’t spoken to my wife yet about my intentions, but I plan to when I am off of work. Thank you everyone who was honest with me and provided information and insight to what was happening.

Update:

I spoke to my wife last night after I got off of work. I started it out by asking her if she had heard about postpartum depression, and she said she did know, that a doctor described it to here right after she gave birth. I asked her if she thought she might be experiencing it, and she said no. She didn’t believe postpartum depression would last this long, and I asked her if we could look up statistics and information on it together, so we did. She was pretty quiet while we did this, but when we were done I asked her if she related to anything about it.

She told me yes, everything the articles described was exactly how she has been feeling. I then asked her if we could get her signed up for online therapy, and I suggested I hire help for cleaning. She agreed to hiring help, but she is still hesitant on getting emotional support due to her birth trauma. I told her that I would be discussing with the boys’ pediatrician on other options that might be helpful for my wife. I haven’t brought up relocating yet, I want to give her some time to process our conversation first before adding to it. I called out of work today, and will be taking my wife out to lunch at her favorite spot in town and paying for her to get her hands and toes done. I know it won’t come close to making up for my negligence for the last year, but it’s a start.

Comments

folaofalltrades

Have you considered she might have post-partum depression? Has she been evaluated by a professional for this since giving birth to the twins?

Aggravating-Ad7763

Agree with this take - I would not even say the D “divorce” word with post partum hormonal changes/depression. Your wife is still in there somewhere.

Update - 5 days later

Edit- thank you EVERYONE for all of the support for my wife and I. We were messaged so many resources and guides for navigating through this rough course in our lives, and I will forever be grateful that I posted onto this subreddit. Everyone helped me open my eyes to everything that was going on, things I never would have even considered had I not come here for help. My wife watches Two Hot Takes sometimes, and I usually listen with her while I do dishes or sweep/mop, and thought that maybe this subreddit would be a great go-to for advice on my marriage, because on Reddit and on Youtube comments you all are so brutally honest and to the point, and I knew I needed that to get this shit sorted. You all were so quick to point out my wife’s postpartum depression, and directed me in ways that I have fallen short with my wife.

Thank you everyone for the constructive criticism and the honesty, I would not have been able to get to this point of reality if I had been coddled and pampered. My wife actually laughed for the first time today when our boys started laughing at the word “booty” (boys will be boys haha). It was the most beautiful sound I have ever heard, and I haven’t gotten to listen to it in so, so long. She seems to be in much better spirits, which I will keep an eye on as I know sometimes that can be a red flag for suicidal ideation or intentions. My wife had been trying to be more honest with me on how she is feeling in the moment, and we have her established with group therapy starting Monday with orientation.

I wish I could say thank you to everyone personally and individually for hopefully helping us save our marriage and potentially for saving my wife’s life. I genuinely couldn’t have done it with this subreddit. Thank you Two Hot Takes for having such a huge and wonderful platform where people can come and receive advice and honesty, it’s a beautiful thing you have here. Im going to go and start making my wife’s favorite dinner and watch the Hunger Games for a movie marathon-something we haven’t done in over a year. This will hopefully be my last update and last post in this subreddit if everything goes well. Thank you. -End of edit-

Its been a day or so since I added an update on my original post, but this update I thought needed its own post if its allowed (I scrolled through this subreddit to see how others posted their updates and saw a few, hopefully this is allowed).

So after begging for several days, my wife finally gave in and agreed to online therapy. We picked a program we thought would benefit her best, and got it situated. She has an intake phone call tomorrow that will organize her hours, what group she is assigned to, and who her personal therapist is. It’s an intensive outpatient group therapy program, goes for about 12 weeks.

I have also reduced my hours at work by request, asking for 6 hours on shift during the weekdays, and I am on call during weekends for call outs. It is temporary, until my wife is better. I have also hired cleaning services to come weekly, she is the wife of a coworker of mine and she has three kids of her own. I spoke to her directly and she offered to help my wife with the boys if my wife ever asks for help, with no extra charge.

My wife and I are openly discussing breaking up temporarily. During our discussion last night, my wife opened up about how she hasn’t been happy, and how she has had an ongoing online affair with someone. I don’t blame her for the affair, I can’t imagine how alone she has felt this last year with me working constantly and always putting the boys first. She texted him in front of me saying it was over, that she wanted to prioritize our marriage and her mental health, and then blocked him on every platform she had him added onto, which gave me a lot of reassurance. My wife was the one who suggested a temporary breakup, I don’t think it would be appropriate given her mental health at the moment, and asked that we just work on her getting better before discussing any marriage issues we have.

She also opened up to me and let me know she has been self harming, and showed me where. And it’s awful. I had no words to say, except apologize profusely for my negligence. I didn’t notice anything for months. She said she started hurting herself after we stopped being intimate, she didn’t have a reason why.

Once she is halfway through her outpatient program, we decided thats when we will start marriage counseling, that way she had time to develop some healthy coping mechanisms. Because we know there is a chance that marriage counseling could bring out a lot of the worst in us as individuals, and we wanted her to be as prepared as possible while still getting individual help in her program. I will also be starting individual therapy once marriage counseling is set up, so I have a healthy outlet.

Not the update I wanted to provide, but I hope that in the future I can give a better one. Im honestly just glad my wife agreed to therapy, and is willing to work us out together. I will never be able to make up for the last 12 months I haven’t been by her side, but I will try for the rest of my life with her to make amends for it.

Comments

Huge-Shallot5297

Your original post has been on my mind a lot, OP. At the time, all I could think was how could you both be so uninformed about the whole process of pregnancy, birth, and post-partum. I will admit that I still can't understand that, but I can appreciate that you understand the mistakes that were made and are actively trying to make the situation better. Many partners would just throw in the towel, and you're not doing that, so I have a lot of respect for you.

I wish you both luck, I truly do. I hope it all works out for your family.

OOP: Thank you so much. I honestly have no valid excuse as to why we didn’t inform ourselves of what could come with postpartum. We were both so focused on the pregnancy and making sure the boys were okay, especially after losing the two pregnancies prior, we didn’t bother researching what occurs after birth. And that was negligence on our ends. I refuse to throw in a towel, especially if she is willing to work with me through our errors. I fell in love with her, and when we got married we said through sickness and health, and she is very very sick. She just needs some help right now, and needed it a long time ago, but what I didnt know then, I do know now and I will do my best to fix what I wronged.

PotentialQuantity292

OP, I commend you for this answer. You may have your faults, as we all do, but you're obviously very sensitive to her needs, loyal to her and her well being, and true to your vows. It takes a lot to admit when we screw up and even more to take the hard road to work it out verses the easy road of just dipping out and leaving her in such a vulnerable state. I wish your wife well.

How to care for twin toddlers as a single dad? - 1 month later

Edit: I have posted in this subreddit twice before this in regard to my situation if anyone wants context to this. I don’t honestly have energy to answer questions in my messages or in the comments.

This is going to be very jumbled and might not make sense. My mind is everywhere right now.

I went to work two days ago, only for 4 hours because I had booked a flight for my wife and our twin boys that evening to go to northern Washington state to look at houses with our realtor. I had packed everyone’s suitcases the night before and I was so excited to take the trip. I took a week off of work and planned to take us up the Space Needle and explore the ocean up there, as we have never seen the ocean before. Got home from work that afternoon and my wife was gone.

My coworker’s wife was there by herself, crying and trying to care for my boys who were also crying. When I asked her where my wife was and if she was okay, she told me my wife left a folder in our room and that she was gone. I of course called her, but it said “This number you are trying to reach is inactive or unavailable.” Or some crap along those lines.

The folder had divorce papers, some already signed by her. She left a note and basically explained what was happening and what she did. She left me for the man she had an affair with. I guess he was an old coworker of hers, she fell in love and didn’t want me anymore. Asked for 25% custody of the kids and left her number for her lawyer. What the fuck is 25% custody? Weekends only? Every other weekend?? Asked that I didnt try to call or text her, that she has a new phone number.

I don’t know what I did wrong anymore. We were -I thought- on the right track. We started marriage counseling. We were going on dates regularly, communicating, laughing, enjoying each other. I thought everything was starting to improve. She was smiling and laughing so much more. She seems genuinely happier. She was even playing with our boys, something she never did before. How does someone seem so much better and turn around to do this? I know I had fucked up before, I neglected her and ignored all the red flags in her mental health.

I acknowledged them and take full accountability. I told her it was all my fault, and I know it is. She has every right to leave me, but why did she pretend to be happy if she wasn’t? If she wanted a divorce, why didn’t she ask? I told her if that is what she needed and wanted that we could, but that I thought we had something to fight for and she agreed with me. She told me she didnt want a divorce. She said she wanted to grow old and get married. She wanted to be with me. Now she doesn’t? She says she has never been happy with me, that she felt forced to have kids when she didn’t want any. I never forced her, I asked one time and when she declined I kept to myself. I was okay not having kids if she didn’t want to go through having them. I was never going to force her into anything. I loved and respected her wishes. And I will respect her wishes now.

In her note she even asked me to venmo her money to start her off. I sent it to her, I know she will need money for her prescriptions and for food. But I am so heartbroken and honestly pissed off. I am so mad.

How does one even go about finding daycare? What do I need to research and look into? Do I need to look for any red flags in daycares? How much does daycare even cost for twins? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Comments

AMDUNN4093

So I might get some hate for bringing this up but how long was she having an affair for? I think my first step would be to make sure those are your kids. Secondly I would contact a divorce lawyer and explain things. As far as daycares I would physically go tour them before deciding. I’m so sorry that she blind sided you like this. Are you still planning on moving and trying for a fresh start? I’ve lived in northern wa state my whole life and love it here. Highly recommend Skagit County. Good luck!

OOP: She said she started talking to him either shortly before she gave birth or right after, so probably a little over a year. I honestly am not sure I can right now. I really want to, the school system by us has incredibly low ratings, and having grown up in that school system I know teachers and students dont care about education.

Kids are there because they legally have to and teachers are there for paychecks. I only passed high school because I just asked my teachers for A’s. But right now I don’t know how I would travel across the US with twin infants by myself. I don’t have anyone else, and if we do partial custody, I would need permission to move, wouldn’t I? Unless thats just something that happens in movies and tv shows.

My ex-wife is stalking me - 6 months later

I posted some months ago about my wife, Amy, and our twin sons. I was asking for advice on her behaviors, which had come out to be postpartum depression, she and I started therapy and then she told me she has been having an affair for months, and then left me for that affair partner.

Its been a few months now, and just as shit started dying down my wife shows up at my fucking doorstep. This was on Monday. I legally had to give her our new address, and since we had moved from Texas to Washington, I didn't expect her to come up here.

I knew she had been stalking me, not full on creepy stalking but she was checking out my Instagram stories on random accounts (I had her blocked), she would message me on these accounts to brag about her new life. She would talk about how good sex is with whatever STD ridden guy she was fucking that week, she would send photos of herself in different beds, doing various inappropriate acts with different people, she would send photos of dime bags and booze bottles. Whatever she could send she did. No matter how many accounts I blocked.

Two weeks ago I just deleted my instagram because I was fucking fed up, and I guess she took it upon herself to show up in person to harass me. I saw her first on my doorbell camera, as I was not home and my nanny was there. She looked like she was high or something, picking at her face and she looked like a twig, she had lost so much more weight than I thought. I told my nanny to not open the door and ignore her. I had to leave work early to get home to convince her to leave.

She said she was there to pick up our boys, and started accusing me of sexually abusing them or beating them and said she had proof of whatever the fuck she was convinced I was doing. She told me she had to convince her boyfriend to drive her to Washington just to grab the kids. She didn't even have car seats in his car for them. His fucking back seats were full of bottles, cans, just garbage. I didnt even know how to react to her bullshit so I called the cops and had her removed from the property.

I just don't know what to fucking do anymore. She has nothing in Texas so Im sure shes going to find some fucking shelter or tent to camp out in close by so she can come harass me. I doubt I can get a restraining order, and I spent all my money buying this house. My boys don't deserve to be forced to go through this shit. They are only a year old but fuck, I don't want this for them. I don't want her around as they grow up, don't want them to see who she had become because she has never been like this.

She used to be so sweet, funny, loving. She always had a smile on her face and yeah, she was a little crazy from her trauma but that crazy was NOTHING compared to whatever she is now. The Amy I knew would never touch hard substances, she barely drank. She hated the idea of sleeping around. Now she's a fucking drug addict and homeless.

Do I get a wellness check on her? Do I try to fight for a restraining order? I don't know what the fuck to do anymore.

Comments

ChannelGlobal2084

I would talk to an attorney about this. I really hope you still have all those pictures she sent as this will help you immensely. The more unstable you can prove she is, the better for you and your boys. Wishing you the best of luck.

think_____tank

111% a GOOD lawyer will use all of this against her and get you that protection order, for you and your kids.

if she has enough balls to show up at your doorstep high on drugs, there is a high chance (when the kids are older) she's going to attempt to go to their school and cause trouble one day.

more_like_guidelines

OP, I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer and this is really not legal advice.

You need to get a lawyer, like yesterday. And I mean a GOOD lawyer. I had a client who dealt with a very similar situation to yours. We got emergency custody and an RO that extended to his children. This argument is about the children’s best interest, and she is a danger to them. And her being a danger to you, their primary caretaker, is also a danger to your children.

A good attorney will be able to help with this. The debt you take on for a good attorney will be well worth the price for your peace of mind and the safety of your children. And who knows, if you do get the RO and your wife breaks it, you may be able to get her arrested and she can finally detox from whatever substances she’s on.

Good luck.

New Update

Final Update - 16 days later

This is my last update. Please read my previous posts because I don't have energy to summarize the hell Ive gone through the last year.

She OD'd yesterday at the local homeless encampment. The guy she was drugged up with called an ambulance and ditched her. She is alive, and is going to jail once she is well enough because she had a stolen car, multiple stolen phones, and over a dozen children's bikes she stole. I am going to try to fight for her to be sent into a rehabilitation facility or be put into a psychiatric facility, but my lawyer says that since we are divorced I likely won't have much say over what happens to her now, if I get any say.

I know a lot of people have told me to let go, and to let her mess up her own life. But she was my wife. She was my entire world. She was so broken but so loving, and I strongly believe the pregnancy and postpartum brought something out in her that wasn't there before. I have looked into BPD and bipolar disorder, and it feels like since I've known her she has displayed behaviors of either or.

Unfortunately we both grew up in environments where therapy and treatments for mental health were considered taboo, so she never really got the help she needed.

I still love her, or at least love who she was before everything. I don't love her romantically anymore.

I don't think this is her, I think she is having some weird psychotic break and I hope she will get better. I will never go back to her, but I hope for our boys' sake she gets better so they can have their biological mother in their lives.

Another quick update, a good one at least. My nanny (call her Abby) and I have started dating. She is 29, and has a 14 year old boy who stays with his dad for the most part due to school and sports. He has been visiting since it's summer time and we get along great. He loves playing with my boys, and my twins seem to enjoy playing with him too. Abby has been wonderful and understanding, she is helping me a lot through this. I just wanted to share something positive since my life outside of her is in complete shambles.

Editing to add: I am 25. It appears from some replies and some of my messages that people are worried Abby is young and possibly being taken advantage of. I respect all of those concerns because it does happen a lot and a lot of women are unknowing victims to power imbalances, especially if it involves a man being significantly older, or a man being "involved with the help" as someone described the situation. Abby is a 29 year old woman and I am a 25 (almost 26) year old man. I would never take advantage of a younger woman.

This is going to be my final update. Thank you everyone who has been supportive and understanding and helped me get my shit together to be the father I need to be. I appreciate all the advice and criticisms (even the harsh ones). Thank you.

Comments

frolicndetour

Your kids have had enough upheaval in their lives without you dating one of the few stable adults in their lives and possibly causing them to lose her if you break up. Bro, you make shitty decisions.

Balerion_dBlackDread

People like OP say things like "I sacrificed so much for my kids. I don't know why they don't talk to me". He won't admit that he kept making crappy decisions that hurt his kids. In his head he'll always be the victim.

When this things with Abby blows up in his face, he'll be back here, talking about how Abby was so nice and loving, but then she changed, he doesn't know what happened. He'll act confused and blame other people. The one thing he won't do is take responsibility for his actions.

OOP: Im going to come on here to clarify that my kids do not know Abby and I are dating. Abby and I are keeping it very casual for now, and we have known each other since the time I bought our house. (We met on Facebook when I joined a community group). Abby is in therapy on her own accord, she actually had a great childhood from the sounds of it, despite having her son really young. Has very supportive and loving parents, she is college educated and owns her home and her car. I dont plan to tell my boys, or her boy, for a while. My kids are obviously only a year old so they wont understand regardless. I am also in therapy, as is she. Individually, of course, we have only been doing this boyfriend/girlfriend thing for a week now.

Saying I am trying to save my ex, what coparent wouldn't want to see their ex be a part of their kids lives? Me trying to save her is for my boys to have their mom back, not for me. This has been gone through with my therapist, and discussed very thoroughly with them.

As for being blacklisted, Abby works on her own. She has licensing and degrees in childhood development and education, so she works for herself essentially. If this still means I can get blacklisted, I will look into it. If there are issues I will gladly redefine the terms of Abby's and my relationship so that neither of us loses opportunities.

I know that is a whole lot of rambling, but I hope the clarification is somewhat helpful. I can't change how you perceive me, but I do believe everyone deserves to be provided with all the info before they determine how they interpret someone else's actions. I am not saying I am in the right, but I will say that I am trying and have been for a very long time. Thank you for being honest with me

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

AITAH for losing it and calling my father a weak pathetic man in front of his family?

Thanks to + for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: emotional and verbal abuse, mental health issues, death of a parent

: August 18, 2024

My father has always been against any confrontation or arguments. He is extremely passive, refuses to stand up for himself, and avoids any conflict. If someone isn't paying attention while walking and bumps into him, he insist it's his own fault. If his employer would mess up his salary, he wouldn't bother fixing it. If a mechanic didn't properly repair his car, he would just accept it as is.

This unfortunately resulted in a tumultuous childhood with my insanely narcissistic mother. She controlled his every move. She got him to quit his job and be a locked in stay at home dad. She had him do every chore. She insulted him at every step. She cheated on him relentlessly and even brought APs into our home. She enjoyed making his life miserable every day and he never questioned it. My extended family, God bless them, were there for me so many times as much as they could be. They tried for years to make my father leave but he never budged.

When she would direct her anger onto myself, in the form of screaming, insulting or general demeaning, my father never once found the guts to stand up for me or support me. When I was a kid if I cried to dad about something mom did or said to me he would sweep it under the rug or just insist I forget about it. Hell he would even try and justify it.

As I grew older it really set in for me how messed up this was. My mother gladly kicked me out of the house when I was 18 and my father just sat there and looked sullen. Didn't say a damn thing. I joined the Air Force almost immediately and got stationed on the other side of the country. The dynamic was awful and I could have easily gone down the incel route if not for therapy and the amazing people I met along the way.

It took years for me to get in a better mental space. I was filled with hatred. My mother left my father 2 years after I got stationed and utterly destroyed my father in the divorce. She was killed a year later in a DUI with one of her APs. I took alot of joy in hearing that it took her hours to die, and that's when I really knew I needed help to process things. I'm almost 30 now, have a girlfriend who is perhaps the best thing to ever happen in my life, and fully understands the situation with my family. I have learned to not allow myself to be consumed with anger and resentment by my past (or so I thought, you'll see) and instead put that energy to my future.

I have been extraordinarily low contact/ near no contact with my father since I left. As much as I try, I cannot make that connection with him. I recently went to a family reunion and brought my girlfriend with me. My father was there as it was his side of the family. They have many issues with him but he is family so whatever I guess. I made sure to avoid him.

I was chatting with my uncles when I heard my father talk in the background. He was discussing how a coworker of his was going through a divorce as he discovered his wife was having an affair, and was positioned to have a very favorable divorce on his side. My father remarked how his coworker should work instead to forgive his wife and by his own words "set a good example for unity and forgiveness", and how he believed he set a great example for me in that extent.

I swear it was like a switch went off in my head and I was mentally back to being the rage filled 18 year old. All these years and he never learned a damn thing. I turned to him and asked if he was fucking serious. He looked at me and started to stutter. I know the next minute was pure word vomit and I can't relay it perfectly, but to sum it up I shouted how he was a pathetic father, pathetic man, his family all know he's a disgrace of a human being who would rather his son be treated like shit then defend him because he's a fucking coward, no one would ever see him as an example to live by, his wife would rather fuck half the neighborhood then even touch him, and he should never EVER believe anyone respects him

I began to derail and ramble between my shouting and my girlfriend quickly took me out and drove me home. It was insane just how quickly being away from him made me feel better. She just held me when we got back and told me it's OK. Again, best thing to ever happen to me. I was ashamed of how I lost It and am now going to resume my therapy, that's a given. However, I'm glad I finally unloaded ehay always needed to be said onto him

Extended family is pretty mixed with reactions. His brothers/my uncles said it was time for him to hear it from me, my grandparents are pissed I did that in front of the entire extended family, with some saying I should have done that behind closed doors instead of everyone.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA with a few YTAs

Relevant Comments

Mesmerizing-Taylor: It sounds like you finally got to express the pent-up feelings you've carried for so long. While the outburst wasn't ideal, it seems like it was a necessary step towards healing. It's good you're resuming therapy to process this further.

OOP: Yeah afterwords it hit me that although it was very cathartic, It definitely wasn't the most appropriate way to handle it lol

**nevertoomuchthought:**He sounds like a gentle, kind, and well-meaning person. You directed what is very clearly anger and resentment for your mother at him. It's a bit more complicated than being an asshole or not. You seem to have got some catharsis out of it I just don't believe he is the one you really wanted to scream at and from the sounds of it he was also a victim of your mother too. And while he was the adult and should have known better he obviously didn't. Being nonconfrontational isn't some character flaw. It's psychological. And he probably needs therapy himself. Screaming at him and demeaning him actually sounds like something your mother probably did/would do and I worry about you if that is something that actually made you feel better about yourself.

OOP: Yes I fully admit he was a victim of my mother, but he was a victim who had a support system he never wanted to use, he fully let me be a victim my entire childhood because apparently it was too much effort to try, and to this day doesn't believe he needs therapy

nevertoomuchthought: All I can say is based on your post and this interaction is your anger is deeply misguided. And you're failing to recognize the truly horrifying thing. You're behaving like the mother you actually should hate.

OOP: Oh trust me I fully hate her as well, but she is gone, and there is no use in holding a grudge against a dead person. I had hoped though, after his son making him an outsider in his life, his family openly joking face to face about his failings as a father, and his ex wife draining him for everything he had and making him start over in a one bedroom apartment, his friends slowly leaving his life one at a time out of embarrassment, that he would have maybe have at least one moment to reflect and maybe consider he should have done things differently

OOP getting therapy due to his past trauma

OOP: Eh yeah either way I need to hop back on the horse for therapy. It'll be good for me. As for my grandparents, I really have had to look back as to how far this pattern of enabling goes back. I know they all did what they could to try and help, but it always seemed like there were times that more active measures could be taken. Times where people should have been far more stern with his addressing his behavior. The older generation on his side are the classical " they're fanily and we stick together no matter what" and I have to think whether his passivenes and enabling is something he picked up on his own or something he learned from his own parents

: August 20, 2024

Thanks for the advice and recommendations, even amongst some of the YTA. However, some of them needed to he addressed because they were either hilarious or cringe worthy

1. Some of them were very angry, and they kind of confused me at first until I saw their comments further down or saw their profile and saw rants about double standards or complete non sequitur ramblings about women. So yeah, not helpful advice and they were great dark reflections about how I could have turned out if not for the support in my life

2. Some attempted to portray my dad as a humble, kind, caring sensitive old man who I'm just being a big bully to. This was a very good insight into how enablers of abuse get away with so much in todays worls, because so many people forget how they are part of the abuse themselves

3. Some were attempting to mentally dissect me or have a gotcha moment with me to pull apart my story. That was generally asinine and I had to step away from those before they asked for my cranial measurements or something

So it was pretty much immediately when I was up the next morning that I realized I needed to resolve the events of last night. I first spoke to my girlfriend and gave a sincere apology for having her see me like that. She reassured me that nothing was wrong, she'd known me for years and has always known me to be level headed, and understands why I kinda snapped. She herself has a history of dealing with narcissistic family so she absolutely understands the dynamic. She only really told me that it would be best to work on spending time around my extended family since my father will always be there. I told her don't worry, I'm immediately going to talk to them afterwords to figure that out. So that parts fine. Looked like kind of an ass in front of her, but I'm making sure that doesn't happen again. I also informed of her my intentions to resume more therapy just to keep myself steady which she was happy to hear.

I called my grandparents and sincerely apologized as well for putting such a sore dent into their family reunion. That it wasn't appropriate and while I still feel it felt good to say that to him, it should have been privately and not in front of everyone. I also told then that going forward, as much as I love spending time with them, since the family always hangs out in one group that my father will always be in, for now until I can handle being around him, I need to distance myself occasionally until I feel comfortable interacting. I told them that I am nor would I ever be establishing an ultimatum or demands of them, and that either way I need to step back

I guess during my apology and explanation I was kind of just going on a tangent because my grandfather interrupted me to calm down. He told me that after I left, people kind of separated or slowly started leaving, and they eventually were able to talk to my father one on one. I guess seeing me have such a freak out resulted in my grandmother having a mini freak out of her own when she started talking to my father, resulting in her kicking him out. While I have a great relationship with both, my grandmother has always been extra protective of me so seeing me that way must have set off a fire in her.

My grandfather then said that it has become a bit of an open family secret my father's failing. His brothers taunt him about it and generally don't have a great relationship with him, and for my grandparents it's always just uneasy. But seeing me the other day and how it still affects me so much has really liked in for a lot of people that it was really bad. They began to try and say sorry if they didn't do enough, which I very adamantly retorted that they did more than what anyone could have expected.

It was very emotional for a minute, but culminated in then telling me that they have decided to distance themselves from my father for the time being, and have given him the ultimatum that unless he has a deep introspective and regularly goes to therapy, that distance may become permanent. My extended family I've been told, are going to try and reach out or call or whatever, but I asked them if they could relay to them that it's not necessary, and that I'm fine and am sorry to them as well for ruining the day, which again, they told me I shouldn't apologize for being hurt. Since then extended family have sent some messages with the general consensus that it's OK with some older members complaining about my lack of respect towards my father

And finally, I texted my father hoping to meet at a local coffee shop and have a final talk. I met him and he didn't look good. I think his parents tearing into him finally got the message through. I had so may things I could have said, but I instead asked him first thing if the coworker he gave the advice to took it well. He just said that neither him nor several coworkers interact with him anymore. I asked him if he truly 100% believes that every single thing he did for me as a child was for MY benefit. He didn't really say anything. I then finally asked if he has any regrets for how I was treated as a child, and if he thinks he ever did anything wrong. He looked utterly defeated and just mumbled that he could have done more. I could have poked and prodded and could have gone on another rant, but instead I told him this should be goodbye and I hope he gets the help he needs

I think finally unloading my frustrations was what I needed to finally be able to move on and find peace. I absolutely need to keep on track for therapy and admit that a public bitching moment isn't OK, but I should be fine

Comments

atmasabr: This is an interesting one.

The ability to control one's failures (yes that's what I'll call your situation) is very powerful. You'll do all right.

I_wanna_be_anemone: Congratulations sincerely on owning your actions. No matter how justified, you acknowledged your outburst was uncomfortable for others and likely not appropriate in that setting. It takes incredible strength of character to admit your failings even if you have no idea how else you could have reacted in that moment.

That you immediately communicated that to your loved ones is a huge sign of how respectable and genuine you are as a person, I really hope you keep moving forward from this situation with the same mindset. Good luck.

jessicaa_fit: NTA. It sounds like you handled things well after what happened. You took responsibility by apologizing to your girlfriend and family, and it's clear you’re committed to moving forward by focusing on therapy and healing. It’s understandable that you snapped given everything you’ve been through. It’s also clear that your outburst made your family realize the impact your dad’s behavior had on you.

Don’t beat yourself up over it. You’ve done what you needed to do to move on, and it seems like you’re on the right track now.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am being defaulted to the newest layout / design, which sucks "a bit" because it is unnecessarily bulky. Anyone else with that problem?

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

AITA for not letting my ex-husbands new girlfriend have a piece of his mother’s jewelry?

Thanks to + for suggesting this BoRU

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: death of parents, entitlement

: August 18, 2024

Throwaway cause family follows my main. I (40F) and my ex, we’ll call him Joe (41M) were high school sweethearts, started dating when we were 17, married at 19, and divorced 20 years later, so going on 2 years now. We have an amazing daughter, Sara who is 8, and has adjusted really well to the separation.

Joe and I get along great, the divorce was amicable and we’re still good friends. Not like we hang out alone or anything, but we don’t argue or fuss at each other, help each other out, and just over all have each others backs because at the end of the day, our number one priority will always be Sara and doing what is best for her.

We’ve both moved on and are in serious long term relationships with other people. His girlfriend, Lily (46F) is great and really good for him. I have never had any conflict with her and enjoy spending time with her when we all get together for holidays and other important events or celebrations. Until last week. Joes parents passed away within a month of each other last summer and it was devastating for all of us. Even though Joe and I had already been divorced for about a year, they still treated me like family and I loved them dearly. Joe and Lily hadn’t started dating yet so she never met them which is a shame, they were incredible people.

Long story to get to the point but I feel like the background is important.

Last week Sara got a box in the mail from her Aunt who was responsible for dividing up my late mother in law’s jewelry amongst the kids and grandkids. She had a huge collection of both costume and more expensive fine jewelry. I let Joe know about it and he explained that some of it was left to me so when he would come over and we sort through it together. Lily came with him which was fine, it was extremely difficult and we were both very emotional so I’m glad she was there to support him. Here’s where I think I may be the asshole.

As we were going through the jewelry, we had pulled out a couple of cheaper pieces of costume jewelry for Sara to have now and I had picked out a couple of rings, a necklace, and three pairs of earrings to keep knowing that they will eventually go to Sara as well. Joe and I agreed that the rest of it would be put away in the lockbox that we each have a key to at my house and would stay there until Sara is older and it goes to her.

One of the pieces being put away is a beautiful set of ruby and diamond earrings and necklace that are obviously very real and we believe were passed down from Joes grandmother. Lily had been admiring the set and making comments about how well it would go with the wedding dress she had been looking at (they aren’t engaged) or even with some of her date night outfits. Joe didn’t say anything to her in response and when she put them down I wrapped them back up and put them along with the rest of the jewelry in the lockbox.

Since then, Lily has texted me multiple times asking about them and if she can just “borrow” them. At one point she accused me of just wanting them for myself and pointed out that Joe and I were divorced and I didn’t have any right to keep them. She has also said that when they get married, the jewelry will legally be part of their marital assets anyway so I’m just putting off the inevitable. I’m not planning on wearing them, per my agreement with Joe, I’ll wear the pieces I picked out and the rest will stay put away for Sara. I have zero intention of taking any of it out unless it’s necessary and even then, I’ll let Joe know what’s going on with it. Joes has been radio silent and I haven’t said anything because I don’t want to cause any conflict that could have an impact on Sara.

So am I the asshole for not giving in and letting Lily have some of the jewelry meant for my daughter?

TLDR: My ex-husbands girlfriend wants some of the expensive jewelry left to my daughter when his mom passed away and I wouldn’t let her have it, and put it away for my daughter instead.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA with a few YTAs

Relevant Comments

Novel-Sprinkles3333: She is a pushy thing, isn't she? It is a big red flag, and I hope your ex sees it as such. The greed is really disgusting.

OOP: It’s just so bizarre that this is happening now. She’s been amazing since they started dating and has been great at taking things slowly with Sara and building a relationship with both her and I. It’s been nothing but green flags up to now and I was so happy that he found someone that seemed so good for him and that makes him so happy. I don’t want to cause issues between them but this is definitely concerning and if it’s her true colors showing, she isn’t someone I want around my daughter.

Bigstachedad: It might be telling that Joe has been radio silent during this back and forth with Lily. He may just not want to get involved in it or knows that the jewelry was willed to Sara. The fact that Lily said it would be great to wear at her wedding and will be "marital assets" when she and Joe get married is delusional, She and Joe aren't even engaged! Unless I missed something in the story, doesn't all the jewelry legally belong to Sara?

OOP: I know they’ve talked about marriage but there hasn’t been any kind of proposal or anything beyond that. Prior to this happening, I was thrilled over the idea of them getting married, Lily has been great for my ex and for Sara up until now. I’m pretty upset that she may be showing her true colors now and I hope that’s not the case.

The jewelry was left to Sara with the notation that I could choose what I wanted from it because MIL had specified that I could choose anything I wanted as long as they will eventually end up with Sara. There’s zero possibility of it not going to her either when I pass or before if she wants it when she’s older. She’s my only child and will eventually inherit all of my assets.

OOP on if Joe and Lily are engaged, married, or neither

OOP: No, not engaged. Marriage has been discussed between them but that’s as far as it’s gone. I was excited about the prospect until all of this. I’m glad it’s not just me being weird about this, it’s not like she was asking about a piece of costume jewelry that doesn’t have quite as much sentimental value but about family heirloom pieces that have been passed down. Sara is too young right now to really appreciate all of that but she had a very good relationship with her grandmother, even after the divorce we FaceTimed weekly, and I know how much it will mean to her to have when she’s older.

OOP on who has legal rights to the jewelry and how does OOP and Joe’s roles play in this when the jewelry is placed in the safe

OOP: The jewelry was left to Sara and I. I was allowed to pick what I wanted from what was sent because there’s no question that it will be left to Sara when I pass, or given to her before then once she’s older. I don’t have any other kids or step kids so Sara will inherit all of my assets in the future including the pieces that MiL left to me.

Since it was his mom’s, I felt like it was right for him to be there when I sorted through it. If there had been anything that he wanted to keep with him, I wouldn’t have objected at all because while my MIL and I were close and it does belong to Sara now, that was his mom. He and his parents had an amazing relationship and I would never have said he couldn’t have something of hers as long as we stuck to the agreement that everything eventually goes to Sara since that’s who it’s all intended to go to. I was trying to do the right thing since we are still friends and I know how hard it was for him to lose his parents. At the time I was genuinely thankful that Lily was there for emotional support because it was so hard to see pieces that my MIL wore frequently and treasured, it was just that punch in the gut reminder that she’s gone and how much she’s missed.

When his Dad passed, Joe and his brother inherited a very large collection of firearms with instructions to divide it up amongst their other siblings and the grandchildren as they saw fit. FIL and I were close, although not as close as MIL and I were, so when the time came, Joe asked me to pick out something from his share of the collection to keep as a reminder of his dad and with the understanding that it will eventually be given to Sara. I need to call Aunt that sent the jewelry and confirm but I suspect it was a similar set up, the jewelry was left to the girls to be divided up and distributed as they saw fit. Joe was told that it was being sent to Sara and I but there was no mention of any of the jewelry being set aside for him or his brother specifically.

: August 21, 2024

Update: So many of you asked for an update so here it is really quick. I wrote this out yesterday and figured out that it was probably better to make a new post than edit the other one with it. So yeah, here’s what’s going on.

Joe took an extended lunch yesterday and came by the house without Lily. I explained to him why I was reluctant to bring everything up but I was tired of being harassed about the jewelry and that I feel strongly about it belonging to Sara, not to either of us and certainly not to Lily.

He agreed immediately and was shocked to find out that she had been asking about it and then angry when I showed him the messages. I figured the best course of action was a face to face conversation with him and being able to hand him my phone so he could see the conversation for himself and there would be no way for her to accuse me of making it up or photoshopping anything.

It sucked to see him so upset over it and I have a feeling that it’s going to get worse because from what he was saying, it sounds like Lily won’t be around much longer and regardless, she won’t be allowed back in my home and won’t be spending any time with Sara alone if he doesn’t break up with her.

I did also go first thing yesterday morning and open a safe deposit box at one of the local banks. It’s not the one I normally do business with and as of right now, my name is the only one on it and I have the only key. I was worried about the possibility of Lily having any kind of access to the jewelry with it being in the house and until all of that is resolved, I feel better knowing that there’s no way for her to get to it.

Joe and I also discussed this when he came over and he said that he agrees completely that it’s the best course of action to safeguard Sara’s inheritance. All but one of the pieces I picked out also went in and as much as I would love to have a couple of the other pieces to wear in remembrance of her on the really hard days, I would rather know it’s safe and I still have the one piece that brings me so much comfort.

All kinds of notarized documents will be on their way to me and should be here by the end of the week when I have a meeting set up with a lawyer to determine what else needs to be done to ensure that the jewelry will go to Sara without any issues or challenges. I spoke to the Aunt that sent everything over the weekend after I posted this (and got so much good advice, thank you all!) and requested she send copies of everything pertaining to it along with documentation from her as the executor of what was sent to who, etc. I didn’t tell her about the issues with Lily, I don’t think that’s my place and I’ll let Joe deal with telling his family or not as he sees fit.

I have an appointment later today with a GIA certified appraiser so I should be able to take all of that with me to the lawyer as well as the pictures and video that I took of each piece last night. I’m still leaning towards a trust as the best way to make sure Sara’s interests and assets are protected but we’ll see what the lawyer says and go from there.

I feel terrible for Joe. He’s a great guy and even though our marriage didn’t work out, I still care about him and always will, he’s not just my child’s father but also one of my best friends and I want him to find someone to be with that loves him the way he deserves to be loved. It’s just that whoever that is needs to understand that Sara is always going to come first and he and I will always work as a team to make sure that she’s happy, healthy, and successful in life, our relationships with each other and other people aren’t going to hinder her in any way.

Thank you to everyone that commented and offered so much good advice and support. I really do appreciate all of it more than I can tell you. I didn’t expect this to blow up the way it did and it’s really overwhelming to be honest. I probably won’t update anymore or add anything else to this so thank you again!

Relevant Comments

CosmicTuesday: You guys seem to make a great team for Sara. She’s going to grow up very well loved

brmc214: Honestly, Lily’s not entitled to that jewelry, and you’re right to keep it safe. Joe’s obviously backing you up, so it sounds like you’ve handled this with both grace and smarts. Props to you

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I've been using the exclusivly since reddit implemented this terrible new format. But now it doesn't work. Reddit is forcing me to use this new, bothersome format which I hate. Is there anyway I can get back to using the older format what used to give me?

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

Previous

[New Updates]: AITA for Expecting Sex on a Date Night with my Wife?

NEW UPDATES MARKED WITH ----

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: infidelity, depression, verbal abuse, betrayal, threats of suicide, stalking, harassment

RECAP

: March 31, 2024

My wife and I generally have a great relationship. Last night, however, I learned from my wife that she has been on a sex strike for most of the last month due to some comments I made following our last date night (which was about a month ago).

As background, I arrange a date night each month for the two of us. I plan a dinner somewhere nice, arrange a babysitter, feed our three kids dinner, and otherwise handle all of the logistics so that all she has to do is show up. Typically, we will grab drinks somewhere after dinner (sometimes meeting up with friends for the drinks portion, and other times going just the two of us).

Earlier this month, I planned an evening out and we had a fantastic dinner together. After dinner, I proposed that we go to a nearby wine bar, but my wife (who had been texting with the wife of a couple we are close friends with), asked if we could go meet up with them for drinks instead. I was fine with that, so we headed towards a nearby bar that they had proposed. However, the other couple's dinner ran later than ours, and by the time it ended, the wife was tired and decided she wanted to go to bed. As such, her husband ended up taking her home and then joining us at the local bar they had proposed.

Around 11:45 we had to leave to relieve our babysitter. My wife was having fun and didn't want the evening to end, so she invited our friend over for another drink. I told her I was fine with that, but that I was hoping to be in bed by 1:00 a.m. (as background, I do the morning shift with our three kids every day and they get up early). My wife promised that we'd be in bed by then.

Our friend came over, we opened a bottle of wine, put on some music, and we're all having a good time. 1:00 comes around and he gets up to go, but my wife tells us we can't leave, as she is vibing. I stick around for another 10 minutes or so and then decide to call it, as I was getting pretty tired. My wife tells me she will be up in another 10 minutes. I get ready for bed (which takes about that long) and don't hear her coming, so I go to bed.

Around 3:00, I get woken up by her coming into our bedroom (she was drunk at this point and made a lot of noise). I'm now wide awake, and if that happens, it usually takes me a while to go back to sleep (in this case, it took me until around 5:00, which was fun when the kids woke up at 6:30). Anyways, at this point, since I'm now wide awake, I ask her if she'd want to have sex (probably not the most romantic, I know). She declines, as she is tired and wants to go to sleep. Fair enough, I don't push the issue, and and she immediately falls asleep.

However, I can't sleep now due to being woken up, and sit there and stew for a few hours (mostly frustrated at being woken up but also annoyed at how the evening went overall). My first mistake was sending her a text (while she is asleep) saying that her actions that evening were hurtful and that it felt like I planned this nice evening, only for her to end up spending the later part of it with someone else (and not like that - I am 100% confident they were just listening to music and chatting).

The next morning, she came downstairs apologetic. However, I made the mistake of mentioning that her actions made me not really want to plan these extravagant date nights anymore, as she had broken her promise about going to bed at a reasonable hour and then ruined my sleep (not the first time this has happened on a date night). Then (and this is where I may be the asshole), I added that this was at least the fourth date night in a row where the night had ended with us not having sex, and that in my mind, a good date night ends in sex. I also added that this one was particularly offensive because it felt like she abandoned me at the end of the night.

These comments really upset her, and she said they made her feel like I only appreciate her for sex. She added that date nights should be about having fun and enjoying her company, and that I should assume we won't have sex on date nights. Honestly, I have some sympathy for her perspective about enjoying each other's company being the most important part of a date night, but I also don't think it is unreasonable to feel a little let down after planning a romantic evening, especially since it had become a pattern, and particularly where she effectively choose to do something else rather than have sex with me. So Reddit, what do we think? AITA?

Updates: Well, this surprisingly took off. A few responses to commonly asked questions:

1. Why involve friends on date night? Because she asked - it wasn't what I had planned, but I do try to make her happy.

2. How often do we normally have sex? 2-3 times a week, which is honestly pretty good for having three young children, although the distribution tends to be a little uneven (i.e. we might have it 5 times one week and then only once the next). I also try to be a generous partner, and almost always try to get her off first (unless she just asks for a quickie).

3. How did I not notice the sex strike that was going on for almost a month? I intentionally took a week off from initiating in an effort to show I wasn't just about sex, and then I caught a severe case of COVID at the end of that week, and then she got her period, and then we went on a trip (where sex is hard with small kids). So even if she hadn't been intentionally withholding, there wouldn't really have been an opportunity for it. Just a really unfortunate series of events that happened one after the other. We also did slip in a couple of sessions in there where she initiated (in what she called "moments of weakness") - frankly, we both like sex, but she is sometimes willing to hurt/penalize herself to prove a point. Also, we've had 4 or 5 stretches in the past where we have gone many months without sex due to childbirth / major surgery / depression. I do truly care for my wife, and I'm willing to play the long game.

4. Why are you not worried about your wife being with a male friend late at night? We're very close to this couple, and they are probably over at our house at least once a week. The husband in particular is close friends with both me and my wife. His wife works very early in the morning, so she pretty much always goes to bed very early. As such, he is often left alone at night, and he frequently ends up at our place (where we play drink, play board games or cards, listen to music, play guitars, etc.). It is not at all unusual for him to come over and stay late at our place, as my wife and I stay up much later than his wife. It was only weird (and frustrating) because my wife invited him over on a date night. Our friend is also a really solid guy - he's probably the safest person I could think of to hang out with my wife who is a guy. I know the optics aren't great and that if I were a third party I'd probably think something shady is going on - just knowing the people involved, it's not something I am concerned about. I'm confident our friend intended to come over for just a drink - he did in fact try to leave, and he had even called an uber - my wife grabbed his phone and cancelled it. And I do think they did just lose track of time. We had a brief power outage the day before so our living room clock was not working.

5. What happened on the other three dates? On one, we had met up with a large group of friends at a bar after dinner and we were all having fun. Unfortunately, one of us had to relieve the babysitter. I kindly offered to go home and let her stay out with the crew (many of our friends stay out late - most have family or a full-time nanny that can do overnights). She ended up staying out until after 3:00 and was blackout when she got back, so I helped her get into bed and called it a night. On another, we got into an argument over something stupid at dinner and it killed the mood. On the third, she just was very tired by the time we got home and wanted to go to sleep (which is totally valid - I didn't complain or push it). This wasn't really a pattern of any specific behavior on her part - I was more just frustrated that circumstances seemed to always conspire to prevent the ideal date night from occurring, and this one being foiled was definitely her fault.

6. Why did your wife stay up so late? My wife is a bit of a night owl. Her ideal schedule is probably to stay up until 12 or 1 and then sleep in until 9. And on the weekend when she is having fun, she would easily stay up until 2 or 3. This is something that we have argued about in the past, as once she gets going she doesn't like to stop (which she admits isn't the best), which always leaves me needing to be the responsible one. I've told her in the past that I'd gladly stay up until 3:00 with her if she agrees to do the morning shift the next day, but she has always declined on the basis of that not being enough sleep.

7. How is your division of labor? I work a high pay, long hours job, and my wife is a SAHM. When I'm at work I'm obviously gone and she takes care of the kids. When I'm not working, I probably do 60% of the household labor and she does 40% - I try to do the heavy lifting with the kids when I'm home because taking care of three young kids is exhausting, and I know she appreciates the break. In particular, I do the morning shift, which we both view as the worst one. She is definitely appreciative of all the household labor I do, and has stated she recognizes that I do more than any of our male friends.

8. Is your wife a good mom? She's a fantastic mom - really, truly fantastic. She puts in a ton of effort making our kids' lives fun and full of whimsy. She's all their friends' favorite mom since she's fun and cares about them. She goes 100% when taking care of the kids, which I think is why she sometimes parties perhaps too late and doesn't want the night to end, as taking care of kids really is draining, especially if you go max effort.

9. How is your relationship otherwise? We both do thoughtful things for one another. I make her coffee every morning and leave a note for her next to the mug. She helps my mom with tech support (which is a true act of love - I did it for years and hated it). I buy her flowers about once a week and will randomly surprise her with small gifts. She will buy me less frequent (but larger and more thoughtful) gifts. If you take sex out of the equation, the relationship is great (and until a few weeks ago I would have told you that was great too).

10. Are you an unreliable narrator? I hope not? I think if you asked my wife what happened, she would agree with essentially everything I've said. I think she would probably just add some additional background information, the big one being that we have had arguments about sex in the past. We had a bad argument about 9 months ago that led to about a month-long hiatus after I complained to her that we never had sex while on vacation (and we probably take 10 or so trips a year, although many of them are just for long weekends). Her view was that we usually have kids in a room directly adjacent to us (and often other adults, since we typically do an AirBnB with friends or go to a friends' vacation home), and that she would be mortified if our kids or friends heard us. It's honestly a valid point, and she convinced me of it (I stopped trying on vacation unless she initiates (which she still does periodically)), but she did feel that I was ungrateful in light of all the normal sex we were having, and that she needed to reset expectations so that sex was special rather than a usual occurrence. I get the sense that her current sex strike is essentially the same thing.

11. Is this fake? Unfortunately, no. I'm very much a real human. Beep boop beep boop.

Update: We had a great discussion last night (and some great sex) and are fully reconciled. I apologized for making her feel like I was primarily valuing her for providing sex (it's not true, but my comments made her feel that way) and not appreciating how much sex we were already having. She apologized for ruining the last date night. She spoke to her sister about it yesterday and her sister told her inviting someone else over on your date night was really stupid.

So in the future, she said she wants date nights to be just the two of us - we can do meet ups with others on other days. This was what I was going to ask for but she beat me to it. I also promised not to complain about sex (even where, like in this case, it was not the primary complaint but part of a larger complaint) and not to send grumpy texts while she is sleeping (and instead just talk to her in the morning). So communication wins again!

TLDR: I planned a nice date night. We ended up meeting up with friends after dinner, my wife invited one of the friends back to our place to keep partying, and when I tried to end the evening, told me to go to bed and kept partying with the friend before coming up at 3:00 and drunkenly waking me up.

We got into a fight over this the next morning, and I told her it was hurtful that on a date night she decided to hang out with a friend to finish the night rather than come to bed with me, and that a date night should ideally end in us having sex, not hanging out with others. This did not go over well, as it made her feel that I was only valuing her for sex, and that I was ungrateful for how much sex we do have (which is admittedly a lot for a married couple with small children).

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received mixed reactions

: April 26, 2024

Whelp, I posted about a month ago about how I was upset my wife invited our friends back over to our house at the end of a date night, and she and the husband ended up hanging out until 3:00 a.m. after I went to bed at 1:00. A lot of people suggested they were having an affair, and that I was blind to not see it. I swore and swore there was no way, I trust both of them, etc..

Turns out, Reddit was right. I was unpacking the car and my wife had left her phone in there, and when I picked it up a text from our friend flashed across saying how he wanted to kiss her and asking her to tell me she needed a night out and should go out to the bar with him.

I know its an invasion of privacy, but we know one another's passcodes, so I opened her phone and checked their text chain. She had been deleting his messages but they were still in the deleted messages folder, and it wasn't great. They've been going on dates during the day when I'm at work, and he has said very suggestive things to her. I confronted my wife about it and she claimed it was purely an emotional affair, that she knew he loved her, and enjoyed the attention, and that she had been dealing with severe depression (which is true) and it was nice to have someone to talk to who wasn't me.

That she still loved me - it was just very flattering to have the attention. I don't know whether that is all true or not, but I honestly do think she is telling the truth - she pretty much argued it wasn't that big of a deal because they didn't do anything physical outside of him kissing her once, and in her defense the suggestive texts all came from him. So I don't know where we will end up - just reality shattering because I would have never thought either would betray me like this.

TLDR: Reddit was right - they were having an affair.

: April 30, 2024

This is an update to my prior update post at:

I had a true heart to heart with my wife two days after I learned of the emotional affair, and we are surprisingly in a really good place now. She apologized profusely, and her description and timeline of events is not as bad as I had feared. It is also consistent with what my former friend (we'll call him Rick) told me when I interrogated him (and I asked him first, before my wife would have really had a chance to collaborate on a story in the event she wanted to do so). It is also consistent with what my wife's sister has told me (she views me like a brother and is a true ally).

As backstory, Rick and his wife have been going through marital issues for quite some time. We were aware of this. About 6 months ago, things really went into a tailspin, and he started talking to my wife almost as a therapist (I know this sounds weird but my wife is really good at listening to people's troubles and providing insight - she does this for a bunch of friends (admittedly essentially all women)). It started out like once a week or so, and gradually increased from there.

By a couple of months ago, they were talking regularly (i.e. several times a week), but still only covering totally P.C. topics. My wife's sister actually confronted my wife and warned her that she thought Rick had fallen for her and that she needed to be careful. My wife was convinced that they were just good friends.

The night of the infamous date night was actually still in this period - my wife admitted that the optics looked bad, but she really was just having a good time (and was frankly pretty drunk and not thinking clearly). She did say though that after that night she realized that he might have feelings for her (and that in retrospect it was pretty obvious). She felt bad about the date night fiasco, and has been much better in that regard (and she also reduced her alcohol consumption).

About 6 weeks ago, we went on a ski trip with 5 other families (including Rick and his wife). It was a horrible trip for him, and he and his wife fought a lot. One of the nights, he got pretty drunk and asked my wife to meet him at the bar at our hotel, since he needed to talk. While there, he told her that he loved her and wished that he had married her rather than his wife. My wife just told him "I'm sorry". I had been putting the kids to bed when this went down and came down and inadvertently interrupted them right after they said this (I do remember some weird vibes in retrospect).

My wife admitted she should have told me right then and there, but that she didn't want to blow up the trip for the whole friend group, as if she told me she was worried that I might make a scene. He then didn't say anything problematic for another week or two, and she chalked it up to him just being really drunk and really sad, and hoped things could just go back to normal.

Unfortunately, Rick's marriage took a turn for the worse about a month ago, and it seems pretty clear that they are getting divorced. My wife (who suffers from severe depression) also went into a depressive period around this time, in large part due some familial issues. This was timed very poorly, as I recently launched a new division at my company and have been working 60 hour week for the last three months or so.

Both Rick and my wife felt isolated and lonely, and Rick started calling my wife virtually every day. They also started grabbing lunch once or twice a week (I guess he would meet her for lunch on his lunch break). The vast majority of their interaction was them talking about life, but he started saying inappropriate things in person like "you're the most beautiful woman I know" or "you're gorgeous". He also started drinking heavily, and he would send suggestive texts when drinking (which my wife claims she would just ignore). The time he kissed her I was actually home - the three of us had been hanging out and I went to use the restroom.

I asked her why she didn't tell me or shut things down, and she admitted it was a mixture of not wanting to blow up our friend group plus her enjoying the attention and compliments, even if she had no interest in the guy. She chuckled a little bit when I asked if she had slept with him (for reference, R is probably 150+ pounds overweight, which is one of the major strains in his marriage, whereas my wife is a true 10/10). Basically, she was depressed, needed someone to talk to, and since I was so busy with work, she found that emotional support elsewhere. She admits that it was really wrong, and has agreed to take a bunch of actions to prevent this in the future.

For me, I still struggle with why she would do some of this - e.g. if he texts that you should come over and join him in the shower, and you respond why don't we do a lunch date instead, from my view that is pouring gasoline on a fire (by showing you still want to meet with him), whereas she thought she was steering things away from problematic situations (something shady can't happen in a public setting). She said he came by the house a couple of times during the day (including once when our son was home with her), but that she really tried to steer things to public settings once she knew he loved her. It also does hurt a bit that in one of the texts R asked if they could do a lunch date and she says no, my husband (me) is working from home today, with a sad face.

But we're going to make it work. We are going to do couples therapy and she wants to do individual therapy, and she also started working part-time to keep her busy on something else. We can't go fully non-contact with R, but now all communication has to include me. I am also going to work on being more emotionally present, even when working a ton, and I told her that if she is having a depressive episode and needs to talk to someone, she can always call me - her mental well-being is more important than my work (she was afraid to call during the day since I am very busy and would call R instead). I also promised to work on being happier and more positive - I am usually a very cheerful person (which is something she loved about me), but I had been pretty grumpy and miserable over the last few months due to my job being crazy. So a little blame does rest with me (I'm certainly not perfect, although I'd never cheat on my partner).

I know most of you will probably roll your eyes and say I'm being a push-over, but none of you know how amazing my wife is. She has a magnetic personality and is the life of a party. She is also one of the brilliant people I have ever met. Shes a great mom, and my best friend. And finally, she's a bombshell - when she is dolled up, most heads turn when she enters a room. If you've ever seen Wedding Crashers, she is (in both personality and appearance) eerily similar to Isla Fisher's character (although she is better looking than Isla). I honestly can't blame R for falling for her - but I can blame him (and call him a piece of shit) for acting on it.

Dumb? Maybe. But my wife is too amazing to let go over this without a fight, especially when she seems committed to fixing things (and actually apologetic - including for getting defensive the night I discovered it).

I'll do an update in a few months. Hopefully things will be positive.

TLDR: The affair wasn't as bad as I thought, and we're going to work through things.

----NEW UPDATES----

: August 15, 2024

As a recap, I made an AITA post about me being upset at my wife inviting for my best friend over on a date night earlier this year, a majority of the responders replied that they were likely having an affair, I defended my wife and former best friend, and then a month later I discovered Reddit was right, and they were indeed having an affair (albeit an emotional one). After my last few posts gained some traction, I promised to provide an update in a few months.

The last few months have been a bit of a rollercoaster, but I'm happy to report that my wife and I are in a really good place at the moment and fully reconciled. There have been some wild moments though since discovery day:

1. Going non-contact with my former best friend ("Rick”), only to have him call my wife several months later ( in the middle of a game night with friends, which was awkward) sobbing in his car and threatening to kill himself. I told her I was fine if she were to talk to him that night, since we were legitimately concerned he might off himself (and although, fuck him, he was my former best friend and I don't want him to die), but they spoke for like two hours that night and then he started texting her constantly (and called like 5 times the next day), forcing us to go non-contact with him again.

2. Running into Rick at a group event and him acting incredibly emo and moody (he sat in a corner and drank an entire bottle of whiskey out of an oversize Yeti).

3. Rick approaching me at said event and saying that he was on the verge of telling everyone about the affair because he just wants to burn everything down (my wife and I were able to convince him not to do so).

4. Learning that Rick had asked my wife to leave me, she said no, and he had told her he would wait however long she needed, even 15 years, so that they could be together.

5. Rick becoming obsessed with my wife's sister (who is very similar to my wife). They now go out for drinks several times a week and talk daily. My wife is convinced he is now in love with her. Awkwardly, my sister-in-law is separated but still lives with her soon-to-be ex-husband.

6. Rick is still married, but divorce is seemingly imminent.

In all this chaos, however, my wife and I have been doing very well. The shock of the affair forced us to work through our issues and we now communicate about as well as one could hope for, and have solved for most of the issues that led her to look outside our marriage for emotional support. I'd love to be able to go back in time and prevent the affair, and I don't know if I'll trust anyone fully anymore, but it many ways it improved our relationship, which is a very strange thing to say.

Relevant Comments

Away-Understanding34: I am concerned that Rick doesn't actually like your SIL and that he's just using her to stay close to your wife. He is sick and I wouldn't put anything past him.

OOP: It's possible. They were friends before all of this though.

The challenge is that his daughter is my daughter's best friend and our social circle includes Rick. There's not really a great way to completely remove him from our lives.

SIL does know what Rick did. She actually called it months ago - before my wife knew Rick was into her my SIL pulled my wife aside and told her Rick was going to be trouble. My wife argued he was just a good friend and would never do anything inappropriate. My SIL was skeptical (and right).

I'm actually very thankful for my SIL - she's a good friend to me, and I think is partly doing this to draw his attention away from my wife.

OOP on his wife and himself stepping back away from Rick

OOP: Oh my wife and I are both people pleasers. It is what led to all of this. I don't think my wife wants to be around Rick anymore - she has vocalized a bunch of times lately that she is pretty sick of his shit and wishes he would just go away. She was truthfully annoyed when I told her to pick up the phone when Rick was having his mental health episode, but he had texted me saying that he was in a bad spot and needed to talk to someone and I am confident that is the truth - my wife said he spent much of the call crying in his car. I think the posters are correct in the sense that I should have referred him to 911 or been the one to talk to him (rather than my wife), but his mental health is really poor right now. I've known him for a long time and his actions the last 6 months or so have been extremely out of character, which makes me think he's having a significant mental health crisis and probably needs to be on medication.

OOP responds to multiple comments on the lingerie issues

I do truly think the lingerie issue was a false alarm. It was what originally put me on alert that something might be off, which is what ultimately led me to uncovering the affair, but it happened I think a little too early in the timeline (which is backed up by the call records). My wife also reacted completely normally to it when I asked about it - she would have gotten defensive had there been something there. She had worn it a few months earlier for me, so her explanation was plausible (that she had tossed it in the dark and missed the hamper and it had gotten wedged in a corner where she didn't find it for a few months).

And my wife has admitted that she fucked up and is very apologetic. She's been working really hard to be kinder to me and to try to make it up to me. I don't think I did a good job of explaining that in my update post.

And although I will probably always have some gnawing concern that they did more than just kiss the one time, her explanation does kind of make sense. Years ago (long before all this), I mentioned I was disappointed in a friend after learning that he cheated on his wife, and that it was one of the worst things a person could do to their spouse. She said that she didn't think it was a big deal, that she didn't know she really believed in monogamy, and that with consent, she felt it was reasonable to seek things outside of marriage that one wasn't getting in marriage. I reacted very poorly to this, but we talked about the subject a number of times afterwards, and her position is a little nuanced. My wife is bi, and her example was that her being with another woman, with my consent, would not be cheating, since that wasn't an experience I could give. She also told me that it would only be fair if I could also be with another woman for reciprocity purposes (and indeed she told me one of her biggest fantasies would be for her to watch me be intimate with another woman, and then perhaps join in). But she was very clear about how consent had to be provided before anything happened. Neither of us have ever acted on this (as far as I am aware), but I think it helps explain her worldview.

Here, her internal thought process (before discovery) was that she needed emotional support during the day, I was unavailable since I was at work, so she found it elsewhere. When the emotional support turned inappropriate, she admits she made the selfish choice to continue with it, since she didn't want to lose it and could internally justify it to herself as "well as long as we don't fuck it's not true cheating" and "I'm not really taking anything away from my husband since he couldn't talk to me during the day anyways." I think they are twisted arguments, but knowing her, they actually are the sorts of things she would internally think to justify her actions.

And she really did need someone during that time - my wife is bipolar and was having a severe episode when the affair started going down. I just wish she had gone to a therapist or chosen a female friend, rather than my male former best friend. It turns out that the medication my wife had been on for ~15 years was not really working anymore (your body starts getting immune to it), so her psychiatrist prescribed her a different medication and she is a substantially better (and happier) person as a result.

And as to your last question, I guess I'm just not that worried now because we have solved for the primary issue, and frankly, I am the guy who is fit, attractive, and rich. We've also solved for the issues that caused her to stray in the first place. And I'm also just much more alert now - I ignored obvious signs because I was overly trusting.

: August 21, 2024

This is part 5 of the ongoing circus that is my personal life. In my last post, a lot of you expressed concern, surprise, or anger that my SIL was now meeting up with Rick. Those are all probably valid reactions to this news.

Yesterday, I decided that we should figure out what is going on between the two of them, and my wife and I reached out to SIL. I'm glad we did, because things just keep getting weirder and weirder. Rick and SIL have met up 5 or 6 times, either for coffee or drinks. The most recent (and likely final) meet-up was actually at Rick's house one evening - his wife and daughter were out of town visiting family (Rick had to work and couldn't go) and he had the place to himself, so he invited SIL over for a drink.

While hanging out, he told SIL that he believes he was married both to my wife and to SIL in prior lives, and that he is glad to have been reunited with them. He then told SIL that she was beautiful and put his hand on the side of her face (as one might do to one's partner - in my view it is a fairly intimate act).

This perhaps unsurprisingly freaked SIL out. To give her credit, she told Rick that he was being highly inappropriate, that he needed to stop, and that he couldn't keep taking someone trying to be a friend to him as showing interest in him. She then scolded him for doing this first to my wife and then to her. It's the sort of thing I wish my wife had told him when he started being inappropriate with her. From what I understand, she then left.

She has been ghosting him since then. Rick has apparently frantically texted her dozens and dozens of times.

SIL emphasized to us that she had no romantic interest in Rick and was just trying to be a friend to him.

It's all just odd to me. I've known Rick for years and I feel like the current Rick is a stranger. It makes me wonder if I ever actually knew the real Rick - I guess not.

Relevant Comments

Mental-Woodpecker300: This makes me wonder if Rick has something medical going on. We've seen it a few times on here that sudden erratic personality changes turn out to be some kind of mental break or even a developing tumor.

OOP: I legitimately do think there is a decent possibility of this.

YuXell411: Definitely keep SIL away from Rick. He seems very unstable. From reading your other posts, there's something that I'm struggling to understand and that's why Rick's wife isn't told about what's happening. I don't know about you, but it feels incredibly selfish to keep this from her. It makes you just as much an accomplice in the affair. I'm all for you and your wife trying to fix your marriage, but it's really hard trying to be sympathetic with your situation when there's hypocritical instances like this.

OOP: It's a fair point. Part of me wishes I had told her when I originally discovered everything. My wife talked me out of it. Rick's daughter is my daughter's best friend, and if Rick's wife knew it would most likely destroy that friendship. There's also a good chance my wife would get kicked out of the larger friend group, which would mean my kids would to a large extent also lose access to their closest friends. I care about my kids immensely, and don't want that to happen to them, since it would be pretty devastating. But there are definitely days where I wake up and think I should just say "fuck it" and tell her.

YuXell411: So the lesser of two evils. I understand, don't necessarily agree, but understand. I pray things work out. I've seen people leave the damaged bandaid on instead of taking it off, only for the cut to become infected. Most truths have a way of coming out and more often than not, the damage is more severe the longer a secret is kept. All the best OP

OOP: If they had slept together I would have definitely told Rick's wife. I'm fairly confident, however, that they did not. And so I think I'd suffer myself if I knew that doing the "just" thing then caused a bunch of harm to my kids.

Forward-Two3846: OP, I think your wife convinced you not to tell the AP's wife because she (the wife) might be able to find proof of a physical affair. Honestly as it stands your wife has had no real consequences for her cheating. Honestly she actually gained a more attentive husband out of the deal. What is to discourage your attention seeking wife from doing this again in the future when she feels like you are not enough again.

OOP: It's possible. I do think her arguments are valid though. And while she suffered no real consequences, she also does recognize this. She privately told her sister (who then relayed it to me) that she knows she got off easy and is trying her hardest to do the right thing and repay my grace towards her.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP