I am not The OOP, OOP is

Mother-in-law [56F] deliberately infected my [27F] daughter [1F] with chickenpox. I'm livid. She doesn't think it's a big deal.

TRIGGER WARNING: emotional manipulation, spousal neglect, child abuse, abusive behavior, child endangerment

Dec 29, 2015

I can hardly type this out because thinking about it makes me so angry.

Earlier this year my husband [31M] and I decided to spend Christmas with his family for the first time since my daughter was born last September. Since they live 12 hours away, we decided to stay for a few weeks before Christmas so they could spend loads of time with Annie [13 months].

We arrived early like we planned and everything was great. I've had a few disagreements with my mother-in-law Trish [56F] in the past over my parenting style (she criticised me for using disposable diapers, buying baby food from the supermarket and not raising Annie as an "organic" baby) but everything seemed great.

After a day or two settling in my husband and I decided to pick up a few gifts from a mall around an hour away before the last-minute rush kicked in. My father-in-law [60M] tagged along. Trish said she was happy to take care of Annie.

We got back a few hours later and Annie was down for a nap on a blanket I didn't recognise. Trish said one of her friends dropped by and gave it as an early Christmas gift. It looked pretty old/worn, but I figured one of her hippy friends was just recycling it.

The next two weeks were fine, aside from Trish making a point to prepare meals for Annie from scratch. I mentioned this to my husband and he said to just let her be. Annie mostly mushed the food Trish gave her with her hands/threw the bowls on the floor, as she's been doing at the moment. Trish said it would "take her a while to get used to nutritious meals".

I was getting sick of her meddling but it was only for a few weeks, so for the sake of the holidays I let it slide.

The day after Christmas Annie was really unsettled and wouldn't stop fidgeting and crying. I took her temperature and she had a fever, so I kept an eye on her for the next few days and it thankfully started to go down. This morning, she started to get a rash and blisters on her arms and legs and I freaked out.

I was packing a bag to drive to see a doctor when Trish asked where I was going. I told her Annie had a rash and I was taking her to see a doctor.

She got a weird smug smile on her face and told me there was nothing to worry about. When I asked her what she was talking about she said without even looking at Annie that what she had was just Chickenpox.

I asked her how she could possibly know that and she casually admitted one of her friend's grandkids had chickenpox a few weeks ago so she asked them to wipe a blanket over the child's arms, legs and face and bring it to her house.

At this point I couldn't believe what I was hearing so I asked if that blanket was the "gift" Annie was sleeping on. She said it was.

I lost my shit.

To be honest I don't really remember what I said because I was up most of the night for two days checking on Annie. I just unleashed on Trish asking what the fuck was wrong with her.

My husband and father-in-law came to try to calm things down and Trish dug in her heels and said chickenpox was "the best and most natural thing" for Annie to build up her immunity. I already have a vaccination schedule in place with my paediatrician and she was booked in to get immunised for chickenpox at 18 months.

We drove to see the doctor and he confirmed she had it. He said I'll have to cut Annie's nails short and might have to tape socks on her hands while she sleeps because kids so young can scratch until they bleed and that will leave scars.

On the drive back my husband started making excuses for Trish, that she was only doing what she thought was best. I couldn't believe he was defending her and we fought most of the way home until I told him to stop talking to me.

Annie's been scratching like crazy and I just had to tape socks over her hands. Trish tried to talk to me when we got back and I told her to get out of my sight.

We were meant to stay until Wednesday but I just finished packing up our stuff so we can leave first thing in the morning.

I'm so angry I can't even think. Whenever I hear Trish moving around in the kitchen my heart starts beating faster and I feel like going out there and grabbing her by the hair. I don't ever want to see her again or let my daughter see her again.

What can I say to make her and my husband realise the enormity of what she's done? (I don't think I can speak coherently to their faces until Annie gets better.)

tl;dr: Mother-in-law deliberately infected my daughter with chickenpox. I'm so angry I feel like physically harming her. I need advice on what to say to make her realise what she's done.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

When asked why her daughter wasn't vaccinated for chicken pox

She's up-to-date on her vaccination schedule. She was vaccinated for measles a month ago and booked in to get the Chickenpox vaccine at 18 months old, as normal.

TOP COMMENTS

fruitpunching

If someone did this to my child -- deliberately infecting them with a disease without discussing it with me, with the malicious intent of undermining my parenting to teach me a lesson -- they'd never see my child for extended periods or unsupervised again.

~

[deleted]

Your husband better step up and act like a father and stop acting like a son.

Feb 2, 2016

Thank you to everyone for your comments, inbox messages and advice after my . I read all the comments and messages, and they genuinely helped - especially the home remedies on how to stop itching.

Since my first post was locked and deleted, I hope it's okay to briefly summarise here.

Over the holidays my mother-in-law Trish [56F] deliberately infected my daughter Annie [1F] with chickenpox by wrapping her in an infected blanket while she was left alone with her for several hours. Trish didn't tell anyone what she had done until Annie came down with a horrible fever and rash. Annie was booked in for her chickenpox vaccination at 18 months but Trish thought what she did is 100 per cent normal, despite the fact it's caused Annie significant pain and distress (and now scarring to her face and arms).

When I found out what she did I was livid and had a shouting match with her and packed up our things to leave the very next morning. It soon came out my husband Jack didn't think Trish had done anything wrong.

On to the update. I didn't think it would be possible – but things got worse.

I got up first thing the next morning and started packing our stuff into the car. Once I opened it up I kept the keys in my pocket since I was going in and out - usually we use Jack's set and leave mine in my bag. While I was packing he sat in the kitchen with Trish and my father-in-law [60M] and chatted and had coffee like nothing was wrong.

Annie was mercifully still asleep so I'd just gently belted her in and closed her door when Jack came out and asked if I had everything. I said we were good to go as soon as he was.

He said 'okay' and calmly took out his key set and centrally locked the car, locking Annie in. I asked him what the hell he was doing and he said we wouldn't be leaving until I apologised to Trish.

I think I was stunned into silence because he then took the chance to rehash what he said the previous day: that Trish thought she was doing what was best, that "chickenpox doesn't kill you" and that I was "making a bigger deal out of this" than I needed to and making Trish feel bad. Yes, making her feel bad.

All the comments from my last post were swirling around in my head, and I told him he needs to stop being a son and start being a father. He screwed up his face and said he would always be Trish's son, and that was the point – that nobody should speak to his mother the way I had the day before, and I needed to apologise to "clear the air".

I felt like I had entered some kind of weird Twilight Zone where I had accidentally married a 9-year-old instead of an adult man, so I just asked him to open the car so we could leave. He repeatedly refused, then walked back inside and said he would see me in there when I was "acting more reasonable".

You can probably guess what happened next. I'd left my bag on the passenger seat, so he probably assumed my keys were in there. Nope. I waited 30 seconds, then just hopped into the car and drove away.

My phone blew up with a million calls from him, Trish, and my father-in-law. Eventually my mom and dad and my sister Jess, who I'm super close with, called as well. I'd briefly texted Jess about what was happening the day before but she was stunned to get the full blow-by-blow. By the time I was on the open road I asked her to phone Jack and tell him he could walk home for all I care. Once she heard my side of the story, and not Jack's (which was apparently that I had gone crazy, frightened Trish, 'snatched' Annie and 'sped away'), she calmed way down.

Mom, dad and Jess offered to start driving and meet me half way so I could switch with one of them and wouldn't have to drive the full twelve hours by myself in one day. I was so grateful to see them I pretty much broke down in a truck stop parking lot while I blubbered that I loved them.

They all took turns driving while I had a rest. It was super reassuring to talk it over and hear that Trish and Jack are the unreasonable ones. Once we got back I stayed at my parents' overnight and they said I could stay as long as I needed.

The next few days were fairly tense. I was up most of the night making sure Annie didn't scratch (which she did anyway, somehow) and it seemed like she just cried and cried and cried until she was exhausted. She has five scars on her face and a few others on her arms from scratching. I know appearances shouldn't matter, but I'm so angry her skin is marked for life now over some stupid bullshit. This whole thing is just something I never expected to happen.

I answered one of Jack's calls only to have him start a rant that he "didn't recognise this person I had become", so I hung up on him. He was due to come back for the start of the work year, which I wasn't looking forward to, but I figured we could make it work as long as Trish was 12 hours away.

Then at like 11pm one night I got a very short and formal text from father-in-law via Jack's phone, saying Trish had come down with shingles and was in the emergency room, that Jack was staying there to care for her, and that he would work from their house remotely once the year started back up.

Jack's been there for the past few weeks tending to momma's every whim – I'm sure she's put on an Oscar-worthy performance of having one foot in the grave – and according to Google it should be any day now that her painful, crusty pustules go gently into that sweet night.

A few weeks ago I was honestly so tired and overwhelmed and in disbelief that I didn't know what to do. Now I'm back at home with people who actually care about me I think I'm starting to realise how lucky I am to see the weird relationship with his mommy this early on. The fact that he cares more about Trish than his own daughter speaks volumes. When he eventually comes back I think we'll have to have a serious talk about our future together.

tl;dr: Mother-in-law infects my 1-year-old with chicken pox on purpose. Husband supports his mommy. He tries to force me to apologise to her by locking our daughter in the car but I peace out with a spare set of keys. Husband has barely spoken to me in the weeks since. Mother-in-law came down with shingles so he's staying with her to nurse her back to health. I don't think any amount of TLC can do the same for our relationship now I've seen the real him. Whew.

TOP COMMENTS

TinaPesto

He locked your daughter in the car, holy shit. And assumed you wouldn't be able to get her out -- I mean, that was why he locked her in, to threaten you. Holy shit.

Good on you for dipping out of there after that. Whatever happens with your marriage moving forward, you seem to have your parenting priorities straight. Good luck, and I hope Annie feels better soon.

bugsdoingthings

Yeah, this. HE LOCKED A SICK BABY IN THE CAR. Kudos to OP for handling that with a cool head because I would have lost my shit

Deminix

That is fucking terrifying behavior out of him. That poor baby is going to grow up with that as a father.

~

SkullBearer

You only get shingles if you've had chickenpox, the new vaccine prevents it. Rather ironic.

I'd get divorce papers served before mummy dearest decides your daughter should become a breatharian or join Scientology.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . She posted in .

Thanks to for the rec.

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. Latest update is 7 days old.

Trigger Warnings: homophobia; death threats; threats of violence; medical risk to an infant;

Mood Spoiler: sad but OOP will be ok

Original : August 18, 2024

I 25F and my best friend Emma f26 have been friends since elementary school and I honestly thought of her as a sister. We tell eachother everything, went to the same college and even though we have 2 different jobs we work in the same area.

Emma was my rock for years as I battled self-hate and depression due to growing up in a small conservative town as not only a person of color but a closeted lesbian. Emma did not know I was a lesbian just knew that I was unhappy. Never staying long in relationships, self-isolation and later I developed anorexia.

Emma was the one who suggested we go to an out of state college and later suggested we move out of state to. I've gotten much better since then and for that, I genuinely thank her.

Though about 2 years ago Emma contracted Herpes from some guy she slept with and it has been very hard for her to land a boyfriend since then and it's made her very lonely. She hasn't told her family or friends about it because she doesn't want to be seen as "gross".

Due to this I haven't really put myself in the dating field and have put off coming out. Though about 6 months ago I met this girl at a craft store. Long curly hair, dressed in all black with big eyeliner and ruby lipstick. I couldn't stop staring at her and I admit when she smiled at me I kind of followed her around the store (I know, creepy). I eventually worked up the courage to just ask her for her number and she gave it to me. I was so excited, I started texting her that night and since then, we have been hanging out a ton and I think she likes me back.

I was going to ask her out but since I live with Emma I decided I should come out since I will be bringing her around if the girl says yes.

So after work I sat her down and told her I was a lesbian. I said all the anguish I went through growing up was because of my self hate. How I wish I could have told her earlier but I never found the right time but now that I was in love with someone I felt like I should tell her. That she was the one person I trusted with this information.

She just stared at me shocked for a few seconds and then her face turned from shock to disgust. She jumped back and accused me of being a pervert and how I was gross for being around her so much knowing I was gay. Even mentioning how she's gotten changed around me and I'm no better than some creepy man. I tried explaining I had no romantic feelings for her and I honestly had a crush on someone else. She wouldn't buy it and locked herself in her room.

Later my phone started ringing off the hook and to my surprise it was tons of messages from my family and our friend group either calling me homophobic slurs or asking if it was true that I liked Emma. My mother even called to scream at me a few times and apparently I'm disowned.

I started banging on the door and told her why the hell she outed me to everyone and she just started calling me a pervert again. So I was like oh okay fine, you want to play? Fine.

I had a pic of her diagnosis and sent it to her parents and our friend group. According to the only friend who didn't crap on me people are talking more about Emma than me because she still shares stuff even though she has herpes. Now they are grossed out and are accusing her of trying to "infect them with her diseases" along with some slut shaming.

Now I'm looking for a new apartment and I'm still planning to ask the girl out this week but I was told by Emma's parents that I ruined her reputation and labeled their daughter as a "dirty h*e".

I feel bad but I felt like she deserved it. Though I know that a disease and sexuality are 2 different things so I'm wondering if I was really wrong to do that.

Edit 1 (soon after the OG post)

Edit: since some had asked, I'll make another edit tmmr, I'm asking her out tonight. I made reservations at this nice thai place she's been wanting to try, then I'm going to take her to boardwalk and ask her out there as to not put her on the spot in front of a ton of people. See yall then, hope it goes well 🥲.

Edit 2: a few hours later

Edit 2: I'm about to go pick up ruby, a commenter has been calling my crush ruby and I think that's pretty cute so that's what I'm going to be referring to her as.

Anyway for some context since it was asked. Emma is staying with a family friend who lives around here because her parents don't want us fighting. My lease is up soon and hopefully I've locked down something by then. At least I'll be able to be alone now. Anyway wish me luck 😤

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: ESH, but you less than others. Emma is TA for outing you, and Emma’s family are AHs for saying contracting herpes makes her a dirty ho. You retaliated against Emma in a way that you knew would hurt her, which is perfectly understandable, but still an AH move. She blew up your life, though, and that’s not fair at all.

I know you’ll be ok. ❤️ Hearing slurs from your family and friends is terrible and I’m sorry that happened, but they’ve revealed themselves as AHs.

OOP: Honestly it was pretty surreal experience I thought maybe they'd be mad but completely disowning me, I'm happy I came out after my parents paid for my college because just wow.

Honestly I feel like I stooped down to her level by doing so, it kinda made me feel like I was deserving of the hate and that I didn't deserve to be able to come out. Though I'm going to try to push through these thoughts and have a successful relationship.

Thank you so much for your kind words

In reply to a homophobic commenter (the commenter was heavily downvoted- I included it because I liked OOP's response)

Um....I didn't see her romantically and I was in the closet. There literally was no reason for me to be weird about it. I stated that she was essentially my sister, I'd never think of her that way.

Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm going to be attracted to every woman. Plus lesbians still use locker rooms with straight women and legit nothing happens. You make no sense.

Also I didn't deliberately get into nothing, my parents were harassing me about not dating boys so when a boy asked me out I just said yes but broke up with them because I didn't like leading them on.

It's not about keeping appearances it was about safety, the things that were said to me, the threats I got. You can't even imagine.

You have no idea what it's like to be forced into a role and have no way of getting out. I only came out to her because I felt safe. Instead she put me in an unsafe situation put all my business is on the table WITH added lies.

Also I came to her saying I was in love with another woman, what told her that I was into her? Nothing, she just made it up.

Commenter: NTA, I find it very interesting that her first reaction was disgust about you possibly being attracted to her, which is so typically ignorant...She even told your friends that you're into her, like how narcissistic is that? Newsflash, lesbians aren't attracted to every women they see, and bisexuals aren't attracted to everything.

OOP: Honestly that's what surprised me the most, like the fact that she assumed I was crushing on her. I have never acted in that manner towards her. I feel like a lot of the flack I'm getting from family and friends is because she spinned some weird story to actually make me look like a creep. My friend who is still talking to me told me she said that she's describing me as some locker room peeping Tom.

This doesn't help that I was an athlete in highschool so I had to be in the locker room with other women. I can only imagine what's being said about me.

Commenter: Soft NTA. Basically because you did the right thing for the wrong reasons. Sure, outing someone's disease/health issues/whatever like that is generally a dick move, and granted I do have a soft spot for petty revenge and FAFO consequences, but... she still shares stuff

OOP: Yeah I kept trying to get her to stop sharing stuff with people but she said she's on the medication so it's okay. I don't care though I keep all my cups and bowls in my room and my tooth brush. Not that I didn't trust her but it only takes one mess up and she wasn't taking anything seriously.

Commenter: What was Emma's reaction to being outed as sexually active with an STI?

OOP: She called me a big ol B-word among other things. She also said she was glad she had herpes because I probably would have tried to r-word her. Genuinely insane. She's staying at a relatives house who lives around here until our lease runs out.

Commenter (downvoted): ESH. Like the above poster said, you would’ve eventually came out. Seriously, you would’ve. She just got you there faster. It was fucked up, but it would’ve happened. Her medical diagnosis was her business. In some places, YOU can get in trouble for what you did. You should’ve picked something else if you needed a tit for tat. [...]

OOP: What other secret was I going to pick? She literally had people wanting to kill me before I sent out that she has herpes. They still want to kill me but they are focusing more on her sharing things even though she knows she has it. You're mentioning people who don't know they have it and still share, SHE KNOWS she has it and is still sharing stuff.

Also I know how common herpes is, that's why I didn't give af when she told me she had it. I just got annoyed when she had active infections and tried sharing drinks with me. That's why she went on the meds because she had both genital and oral and they were constant. Other than that, didn't care. Though the community I live in is super religious and judgy so all they hear is herpes. So since they are getting violent with me they can be disgusted with her.

They aren't going to hurt her over it but they will hurt me. Which is why I will never be able to see my family or friends again.

Also there is no legal trouble I can get in my state for doing that because I didn't tell her job.

I'm pretty sure she can get into more trouble for harassing me, yelling slurs and putting me in a potentially fatal situation. Inciting violence on a gay person kinda sounds like a hate crime I won't lie.

Saying I was going to "eventually come out" is screwed up. This isn't like something you just do. Like I can be hurt over coming out, I was supposed to be able to weigh the risk and benefits but she took that away from me.

Because of how dangerous it is some people NEVER come out and stay in the closet their whole life.

Commenter: It [telling] also helped reduce the negative reactions to the private information Emma revealed. OP’s mum disowned OP for this. I’d say if Emma started the fire, OP can use her to reduce it. 

OOP: That's exactly what happened a good chunk of people who were threatening to show up to my apartment and kill me are now upset with Emma.

Especially from what I hear, her brother and sister in law are the most mad because she had been kissing up on their baby like last year. She had been on the medication, no active infections and it wasn't on the mouth so the baby is fine but they don't understand how herpes work.

Honestly my town's ignorance to everything is really shooting her in the foot rn.

She still could have been shedding the virus and could have killed the baby:

Oh damn I thought it was just newborns it killed, the baby was 7 months at the time. The baby doesn't seem to have contracted it luckily but damn. Yeah then they aren't overreacting, especially if she could have potentially killed their baby.

Though tbh I just think they didn't want their kid to seem dirty because most of their comments consisted of them saying that she tried to spread her stds to a child.

Commenter: You’re in love? Oh please! You’re infatuated. There is nothing wrong with that, but you’re not in love. You don’t even know this chic. 

OOP: I mean 6 months is a decent amount of time but fair she's just the first crush I've been able to pursue in uh..ever so.

There is no consensus bot on AITAH, but responses were somewhat mixed between NTA and ESH

Update : August 19, 2024 (Next Day)

So as I stated in my last post Emma is now staying with a relative in our area till our lease ends.

The actual update on this is this morning Emma's parents were at my door. They flew out because Emma is refusing to step back into our apartment. So I let them come inside because I wasn't about to hold Emma's stuff hostage but I did something stupid. See they didn't really want to speak to me which was fine but I decided to just wait in my room until they left.

Me and Emma have an emergency fund that had about 5k in it. I put in roughly 2.7k...they took it. The entire thing. Once I noticed I called them to give me back my money because not all of it is hers and they told me that I earn more then Emma and this was compensation for ruining her reputation. I was like, so it's okay that she tried to screw me over first?

Their response, "Emma did not choose this disease you chose yours."

I didn't even respond that I just hung up, honestly I don't even care. They didn't take anything else other than the money. I genuinely don't want to see them anymore.

Emma also has been cut off from her siblings because they have kids and she was kissing the babies without letting the parent's know of her diagnosis. She also usually was not taking proper precautions during active outbreaks soo yeah. So now none of her siblings want her around them because they feel "betrayed".

Though on a lighter note, me and ruby are officially dating! A commenter kept referring to her as ruby and honestly I think that matches.

We went out to a fancy Thai spot, watched a movie and then I took her to the water at the edge of the city. I had some stupid playlist set up, I was trying to tone it down but I couldn't, to excited. I told her how beautiful I thought she was, how I enjoyed spending time with her and if she was okay with it, if I could take her out on a date sometime. I had a whole speech prepared but one of the comments told me I should be simple to not...scare her.

She laughed at me 😅, she said "this was the first date"

So that was a yes, I dropped her off at her house and she gave me a kiss before she left and I'm SO HAPPY! IVE NEVER KISSED A GIRL BEFORE GRAHH!

So yeah I actually give 0 craps about the money I just want them out so I can start my new life. Anyway that was all thanks a lot for the advice and support!

Relevant Comment:

Commenter: Tbh I'm pissed by the fact they stole your money
Regardless, I guess this was a good ending after all, good for you OP

OOP: I'll recover i have my own separate savings but this honestly was just rubbing salt in the wound

Original post was made by u/throwrawalkaround. When I reached out to OOP for permission to post any updates to BORU shortly after her first post was made to r/ relationships, she asked if I could post her first post on her behalf to r/TwoHotTakes because her attempt was picked up by the spam filter, and her post to r/ relationships was removed. I posted her first post to r/TwoHotTakes on her behalf, and she answered questions from her account. When she made her update, she was able to post it to herself

Trigger Warning: religious excommunication, religion and politics, physical abuse

Mood Spoiler: hopeful for the kids who are trying to find the right thing to do

: (July 9th, 2024)

My church's youth group has a youth band that leads worship during youth, but the church also has them lead worship on Sunday mornings every few weeks (to promote the youth band when the usual worship team has a week off). I'm not in the band, but I often help with lyric powerpoints along with another girl (but not when the band plays on Sundays). The main singer of the youth band is the daughter of a youth assistant, and the daughter is an assistant too (we'll call her Emma, she's 20). I'm writing because of what happened the last time the youth band led Sunday worship on 6/30 (that led to Emma and her family leaving the church). In-between one of the songs, Emma said she felt led to say that Christian nationalism "wasn’t of God" because forcing people to believe went against the basis of Christianity because God gave free will and too many Christians forgot that. She also said there would be no short and narrow path if people were forced to walk it before saying Project 2025 was "advertised as Christian but resembled nothing of God" because God never forced people to believe in him.

No one confronted her or anything as it was brief, and they played a few more songs along with the closing song after the pastor finished his sermon. But when we got to youth on Friday night, Emma and her mother weren’t there. And we were later informed (by the youth pastor) that Emma and her mom would no longer be helping the youth before a bunch of stuff about giving others the chance to be lead singers because Emma had left the church. However, word got out from one of the band's players that Emma told the band that she got banned during the week and that her parents left the church with her, so they already knew before we found out at youth. The reason I'm making this post is because of a conversation I had with the band (and other powerpoint girl) the same Friday the youth pastor announced it, and the conversation was private from the rest of the kids.

Long story short, the band is upset about what happened to Emma, and they've been throwing around ideas on what to do. The one they're heavily considering is a walkout the next time they're scheduled to play on Sunday after playing the intro song (service opens with an intro song before someone comes onstage to welcome everyone before worship continues), and they would voice support for Emma before walking out together. They haven't told anyone not associated with the band because they don't want anyone to spill the deets. But the main thing we're debating is repercussions from our parents and whether or not it's worth the risk. There's likely a few weeks until the band plays on Sunday again, and they still haven't decided on a new lead singer yet. I also wanna add that the church didn't upload the worship portion of the service with Emma and only uploaded the sermon from that day (they always include worship on their YouTube upload of the service). Most of the concerns were around tuition punishments as some of them have their parents helping pay, but they still want to do something. And while I'm not in the band technically aside from coordinating powerpoint lyrics occasionally, I figured the least I could do was get advice from other adults anonymously because we don't want to ask our parents for obvious reasons, and maybe others could see more pros and cons that we can. I appreciate any advice that anyone gives and will relay it to the band too. Thanks to anyone who read this too.

edit: I forgot to add this detail in my post, but the pastor of our church has used the pulpit to speak politics in the past and has even mentioned support of a Presidential candidate on numerous occasions along with other political topics on occasion too (roe v wade & gay rights). So while I agree that politics probably shouldn't be spoken in church, some of the band said that Emma was tired of the often political topics being brought up during sermons, thus why she said what she said.

________________________________

: (July 22nd, 2024)

I wanna thank to everyone who commented on my original post because it was way more than I expected, and many of you had really helpful advice. This is a small update with some really surprising things that happened since. First, the band is still going through with the walkout, and they're keeping it within the band so that no other kids tell their parents who might tell leaders (it would've been awesome to include others, but the risk of the church catching wind was too great). Second, we have a date of 8/4 when the youth band will do worship for the adults again. Third, the youth pastor appointed a singer from within the group who will take turns singing on Sundays with future participants in the coming weeks.

Fourth, the new singer agreed that the church's handling of Emma was BS. Fifth and most exciting, two of the band members told non-religious relatives about the situation and fear of punishment, and they agreed to come to the service and let them head to their cars in the parking lot straight from the walkout (for safety). They won't leave the lot in case some parents try to claim kidnapping, but we'll be in their cars if all goes well, and the rest of us are going to ask our relatives too. Sixth, one of the band members told a teacher they knew from school who's thinking about coming and walking out too. And seventh, one of the band members wrote a little something that the lead singer will read before they walk off stage, and it would be great if anyone with editing experience could help to make it clearer or provide advice on what to add (they tried to keep it short). I will make a post about their writeup in the near future.

Here's how we hope it happens. The band will play the opening song (which officially starts service) and usually lets people know it's starting (many make their way from the foyer during the intro song). And after someone gives the welcome/prayer after the opening song, the lead singer will then give the speech before the band walks off stage, and I will walk out with them from the pews along with relatives/friends. One relative said she might bring some people she knows too (which could make more of a statement to the church to see adults leaving too). One of the relatives will also record the whole thing in case any parents don't react well to it, and I will update after it happens.

If anyone has any further advice, it would be appreciated, and I'll bring it to the band. Most of the band (outside of two seniors) aren't old enough to vote this year, but this is a chance to stand up for what's right against something that is adamantly infusing itself into Christianity (Christian Nationalism) and making Christianity lose all of its respect in our opinion. We don't expect change to happen in the church as a result of our walkout, but it's a small thing we can do to say we did our part when faced with it ourselves. Another commenter put it best when she asked if we'd be able to live with ourselves if we did nothing, and the answer has been no for us so far.

I also wanna add something I forgot to clarify in my first post. Emma didn't say what she did out of the blue. She had been vocal about the pastor talking politics for some time according to the band, and I've seen much of it too. However, a lot of people sent DMs disagreeing with the band's decision. So before I get into it, I wanna give specifics of what the pastor has done. The pastor mentioned Trump from the pulpit numerous times including the aftermath of the 2020 election to voice discontent over the results. He has also celebrated roe v wade's overturning from the pulpit, pride month during June, and even compared Trump's legal trial to how Jesus was persecuted leading up to his crucifixion; things that have no place being vented about from the pulpit, and this has happened over the course of a few years.

I received a few DMs in the aftermath of my first post, and some were encouraging while others not so much. A few people (who said they were Christians) said that Emma was wrong to use the microphone to "hijack the service" with her words because she should've talked to the pastor first while calling her actions immature. However, when I showed the band the advice from my posts, I also told them about the DMs, and they said that Emma spoke to a leader about the pastor's political sermons in the past. But nothing came from it as he continued to speak politics from the pulpit frequently. Some people also said that our walkout "wasn't godly" because we, like Emma, would be hijacking the service for a publicity stunt when church was supposed to be about God. Some people called us immature" among harsher things.

But we disagree for two reasons. First, who is supposed to call out the misuse of the pulpit if not people who attend the same church where it's misused? A few DMs said to do nothing and pray for God to change the pastor's heart, but he's been doing this for years. And second, the Bible gives guidance on how to call out improper behavior in the church in Matthew 18:15-17.

Dealing With Sin in the Church

15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

Emma has already talked to a leader one-on-one, and the band has voiced displeasure about Emma's ban to the youth pastor, only for him to disagree and say that Emma was out of line. Regarding the part about 'tell it to the church', I suppose the "how" might be up to interpretation (maybe telling the church means telling a church leader instead of the congregation on stage). But Emma and the band have talked to various leaders (including an elder too) aside of our youth leader, only for years of political rants from the pulpit to continue. When Jesus flipped tables in Matthew 21:12, we believe he did it because people were using the temple to sell things that had nothing to do with God, and we believe that politics falls into the same boat. Someone commented a link in the comments of my first post that I never saw. But I showed the band, and we couldn't agree with it more. Pastor Loran Livingston talked about the role of politics in the church and how politics shouldn't be combined with Christianity, and I'll leave the link here ().

I still plan to speak with my parents ahead of 8/4, and I'll share the writeup the band is working on really soon. I really appreciate everyone who commented too. Lastly, I wanna clarify that the walkout is the band's decision entirely. I am not a member of the band (I just do powerpoint lyrics during youth), and I'm not even in the band's group chat with Emma. As some of the band members are contemplating punishments from parents (two seniors who are concerned with their parents removing tuition help), I will support whatever they decide while understanding that they have to take care of their future too (as many commented). If they decide to continue with the walkout, I will support them and walk out from the pews. But if they change their mind because repercussions are too great, I will respect that and continue to support them.

_______________________________

: (August 17th, 2024)

I meant to get back to this sooner, but some things happened on and after 8/4. Since my previous post, the band decided not go through with the walkout, and Emma was a big reason why. The band told me that Emma spoke to them a few days before 8/4 after she spoke to another bandmate who voiced concern. The girl who spoke to Emma was 15 and confided in her about physical abuse fears from her parents, and Emma spoke to the band on behalf of those fears. Emma also referenced some of the fears that the senior bandmates had about losing tuition support and told them that it wasn't worth risking their futures. Emma, unlike the band, had a full-time job to support herself, but some of the band was still tied to their parents for years. She pretty much told them to go with their gut if they had fears about repercussions from their parents as the 15-year-old girl had, and the senior who feared losing tuition said that his parents threatened him with it in the past about something else which is why he thought of it.

I wasn't present when the band spoke to Emma because I'm not a member of the band (I only do powerpoint lyrics and they tell me what songs before youth group), but they told me and the other powerpoint girl afterward. So instead of playing on 8/4, the band collectively (and privately) resigned to the youth pastor at youth group the Friday before 8/4, and none of them played on 8/4. They also told their parents that they would before doing so, and a few of the bandmates said they were never forced to join the youth band by their parents. They simply volunteered. But that didn’t mean they weren’t gonna say anything about Emma's treatment. They just wanted to in a safer environment that wouldn’t risk embarrassing their parents in front of the congregation which could cost them privileges

Instead, they decided to share their writeup with Emma who was planning on posting her own explanation of her ban from the church. Emma posted her explanation along with the band's writeup to her socials on 8/4 regarding why the band collectively resigned, and a few bandmates decided to repost it on their socials. Emma also tagged the church's social in her post and believed that the walkout would do more harm to the band than good, so the social media route was a slightly better alternative. Not as many people will see it, but we believe potential rumors and gossip might do their thing. A few of the bandmates also told their parents that they would no longer attend that specific church. And while a few of them argued with their parents, perhaps it was less than the would've-been backlash of embarrassing them with a church walkout. The 15-year-old girl ended up attending church on 8/4, but the seniors didn't although they ended up returning the following Sunday. None of them including myself have attended youth group since the Friday right before 8/4, and I didn't attend on 8/4 either

Two unexpected things also happened. I received a DM from someone who said that they were from a Christian news outlet. And while I never heard of their outlet before, they asked permission to share the band's story in one of their newsletters anonymously (not including the band's names or the church's), and the band said they'll pray on it and weigh the decision. Additionally, a pastor reached out in DMs and said that he was encouraged by their story. He also said that pastors were supposed to hold each other accountable and asked for the name of the church so that he could reach out pastor-to-pastor to talk, but Emma and the band are undecided on this at the moment. They said they're going to pray on it along with how it's important to make sure it's a real pastor and that no harm will come to the church, and I told the pastor that I'll get back to him.

Emma also told the band that her parents haven't talked to her much since her church statements, and that's because of arguments that they had. Some people thought that Emma's parents left the church in support of their daughter getting banned, but that wasn't the case. Her parents were banned too, and Emma said they didn't appreciate being blindsided by Emma's statement and received some backlash for them. Emma still stands by everything she said, but they aren’t talking at the moment.

The last thing I'll say is about me and how I feel about everything, and I'll leave the band's statement from Emma's post afterward. This was the last straw in a long line of stuff for me from this particular church, but it goes further than that. I struggle to understand how parents can care more about church appearances more than the needs and desires of their kids, and I'm not talking about bad things. I'm talking about normal things, and Emma's statement said it better than I could. Emma said that God gave everyone free will, but the 15-year-old girl vented about physical abuse in regards to not wanting to go to church in the past, and that is the opposite of what God taught. God didn’t force people to believe in him, but some parents take away privileges if they refuse to fall in line with God and their church. I barely even have any friends myself, and I'm not even in the band group chat. The band told me everything secondhand, and none of them are my friends. They hang out together outside of church, but I only have one other friend from church because I've been homeschooled for all of my life because my parents think public school is too secular. I can't even do official sports aside from sports played in the church field that our homeschool group uses, so I can't do leagues or be on any teams like high school. I just wish my parents would've let me go to school, but apparently they don't think their religion is strong enough for me to go to school and supposedly not lose my faith, kinda like they've been keeping me on training wheels for 17 years.

Personally, I need a break from church. I know not all churches are bad because the one I happened to grow up in is questionable, but I've decided I'm not a Christian because I said the salvation prayer when I was like 7 or 8, and I don't think that counts. You don't know what you believe at that age because all you have is heavy bias from your parents, and I need a break to be unbiased in the future after my pastor has made some questionable decisions in recent years (venting politics in the church like the people who sold things that weren't of God before Jesus flipped tables). I'm going to try and learn about other religions because Christianity is all I ever knew, so I've stopped considering myself a Christian internally of late. Doesn't mean I'll never return, but I need a long break from Christianity because just thinking of modern Christians makes me sick (too much hate disguised as Christianity and political overlap). I know there's good ones, but I have to broaden my perspective. And without a long break, I won't be able to be non-bias in my search. I've also argued with my parents about how I'll no longer attend church, but this is getting too long. Some of the band has faced punishments for not going, and that is the epitome of what's wrong with their twisted version of Christianity, so I hope a break will help me reset in some ways. The band's statement talked about how they would no longer attend the church, but I'm not sure if their parents were the reason they returned on Sunday morning after 8/4. Regardless, here is the writeup that they shared with Emma, and it's longer than what they likely would've been allowed to say before the walkout if someone cut their microphone which is an advantage of social media in this case

This is the band writeup that Emma posted alongside her explanation of how she was banned:

"As Christians, we are called to worship Jesus Christ. But how does one become a Christian? By making a choice no one else can make for us, but the last part is something too many Christians forget. Jesus never forced anyone to follow Him. Joshua 24:15 tells us to choose whom we will serve. But many have forgotten the part about free will and believe that fusing religion with conservatism is the way. The sole purpose of Christianity is a personal relationship with God. It has nothing to do with Christian Nationalism, and those who try to use our faith as an excuse to control others are false prophets. As Christians, we shouldn't judge others because we are not God. But since our church has banned Emma and lied to the youth about how she "chose to leave", we can no longer play or remain in a church where the pastor uses the pulpit to preach other than the gospel, and we pray that the true spirit of God returns someday."

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

- 23rd August 2024

- 23rd August 2024

AITA for Asking My Husband to Cancel His "Bro’s Only" Trip to Help Me With Our Newborn After He Promised He Would?

This situation has caused a lot of tension between my husband and me, and now I’m questioning whether I’m being unreasonable.

I (30F) gave birth to our first child, Olivia, two months ago. Being a first-time mom has been both beautiful and overwhelming. My husband, Jake (32M), was incredibly supportive during the pregnancy and promised that after Olivia was born, he would be there for me every step of the way, especially during those challenging first few months.

Before Olivia was born, Jake and his friends had been planning a "bro’s only" trip for this summer—a week-long vacation to a cabin in the mountains for hiking, fishing, and bonding. When the trip was being discussed, I reminded Jake that Olivia would only be a few months old, and we would be deep in the newborn phase. He reassured me that if things got too tough, he would cancel the trip to help me out, and I trusted him.

Now that Olivia is here, things have been harder than I anticipated. Between the sleepless nights, breastfeeding struggles, and just trying to adjust to motherhood, I’ve been feeling overwhelmed. Jake has been helpful, but I can tell he’s excited about this trip, which is coming up next month.

Last week, I asked Jake if he could consider canceling the trip, reminding him of his promise. I told him that I’m struggling and that having him gone for a whole week would be really tough on me. He seemed surprised and a bit hurt that I was asking him to cancel. He said he’s been looking forward to this trip for months, and that he needs a break, too. He also pointed out that his parents live nearby and could help if I needed support while he was away.

I understand that Jake needs a break and wants to spend time with his friends, but I can’t help feeling like this is a time when I really need him by my side. I tried to explain that while I appreciate his parents' help, it’s not the same as having him here. Jake said that I’m being unfair by asking him to cancel the trip after all the planning that went into it and that I need to trust him to make sure I’m supported even if he’s not physically there.

Now, we’re at a bit of a standoff. Some of my friends think I should let him go, saying that it’s important for him to have some time away, especially after all the stress of becoming a new dad. But others agree that it’s too soon for him to take off for a week, and that he should prioritize being home with me and Olivia.

So AITA for asking my husband to cancel his "bro’s only" trip to help me with our newborn after he promised he would?

edit:

Hey, everyone. I just wanted to give a quick update after reading through most of the replies. I was honestly overwhelmed by the amount of support and understanding I received—thank you so much to everyone who took the time to respond. Your kind words and thoughtful advice really helped me feel less alone in this situation.

A lot of you suggested that I should also take a week off, letting Jake stay with Olivia, to get a break for myself. I really appreciate the sentiment behind that suggestion, but there are a couple of reasons why it’s not realistic for me right now. First of all, I’m breastfeeding, so being away from Olivia for that long would be really difficult logistically. But beyond that, and this is something I know I need to work on, I just don’t feel comfortable being away from my baby yet. I know it’s not healthy to feel like I can’t have her out of my sight, but I can’t help it. I guess it’s just that new mom anxiety that’s really hard to shake.

I’ve been debating whether or not to show Jake this thread. I’m worried that reading it might hurt his feelings, but I’m definitely going to have another conversation with him about everything. I’m willing to compromise and let him go on the trip, but I think a whole week is just too much. I’m leaning towards suggesting that he limit the trip to a maximum of three nights, so he can still have some time away with his friends but not be gone for an entire week.

I’ll update again after we’ve talked. Thanks again for all the support, everyone. It really means a lot to me.

Comments

fancyandfab

You were uncomfortable for 9 months, you went through labor, you are now breastfeeding, what the f**k does he need a break from?? He was a giant AH when he even planned this trip. He was a bigger AH when he lied about canceling, and he's the giant gaping insanely awful AH now that he thinks it's unreasonable for you not to want him to be gone for an entire week when you're already overwhelmed. It doesn't seem like you'd want his parents to stay for that week while he's gone. This made me furious. I hope this is his only misstep, though I doubt it. NTA

jasperjonns

NTA He needs her to trust him! Like how she trusted him months before, when he said he wouldn't go if she needed him. Yeah that worked out so well in the trust department. OP I am mad on your behalf. He needs a break TOO?? Like, the too is insinuating somehow that you got a break? When did that happen?!

Arjvoet

Seriously, shouldn’t she be getting a break first? This guy is lame af.

LetKey4168

That was my thought. When is her week away to unwind from the stress of becoming a new mother, plus carrying a human for 9 months, pushing said human out of her body, using her boobs to feed said human and if you’ve never breastfeed let me tell you it HURTS at first. When he does all of this then maybe he could have a week until then man up and shut up

dryadduinath

NTA. He agreed he would cancel it (until he was actually held to his word), planning a trip with his friends a few months after your due date was truly spectacularly poor judgment in the first place, he is a dad now. He’s not your helper, he should be pulling his own weight, and he should know by now that this is a bad idea. No, his parents living nearby does not make up for it, and no, it is not reasonable for him to expect you to trust him to “make sure you’re supported even though he’s not physically there”. This is his baby. He should be physically there, not just supporting you, but taking care of his own child who I must assume you are still recovering from carrying and giving birth to.

You are not being unfair. He is being …a liar? What do we call people who say they’ll do something and then pitch a fit when you expect them to actually do it?

Friendly-Log6415

Yeah I’m shocked he planned this trip at all NTA

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 11 hours later

Hey, everyone. I just wanted to share another update after having a very long and emotional talk with Jake. I won’t get into every detail of our conversation, but I’ll touch on the most important points.

After putting Olivia to bed, I went straight to bed myself, feeling utterly exhausted. Jake was already asleep, but for some reason, the weight of everything just hit me all at once, and I started crying uncontrollably. My sobbing woke Jake up, and he immediately asked me what was wrong. I told him that I was just tired, but then I opened up about how anxious I’d been feeling about his trip and being left alone with Olivia. I admitted something I’ve been reluctant to say out loud—that Jake hasn’t been as involved as I thought he would be. This was one of my biggest fears when we found out we were having a baby.

For context, Jake has a rocky relationship with his own dad. I won't go into detail about why his dad isn't the best but his mom (my mother-in-law) remarried when Jake was in middle school, and his dad wasn’t very present in his life. Jake has expressed to me before that becoming a father was scary for him because he’s afraid of being a bad one, just like his dad. When he first told me that, I thought it would make him into a great father, because it showed how much he cared about being a good dad long before we were even pregnant.

When I vented to him about all of this, at first, he tried to defend himself. He admitted that he’s been freaking out about having a baby for so long and just didn’t want to tell me. He said he didn’t want to stress me out while I was pregnant because he knows how much I’ve always wanted to be a mother. Hearing him say that made me feel guilty, like I hadn’t seen how much he’s been struggling internally. I had tried to convince him that he was going to be a great dad when we had this conversation long ago, and now it all felt more complicated.

I thought to myself, This can’t go on much longer. I realized that if he was going to keep pulling away like this, I didn’t know if I could handle it. So I asked him, “Is this what our life is going to look like from now on? Me with Olivia and you away? Because if it is, Jake, then I don’t think I can continue on like this.”

Jake told me to calm down and assured me that he wasn’t going anywhere. Then he got really emotional—he even started to tear up. He said he didn’t want to turn into his dad, and that he hadn’t realized that going on this trip could be a preliminary step toward becoming the absentee father he feared he might be. He apologized for not considering me and Olivia as much as he should have.

Long story short, Jake called his friends and told them he wouldn’t be able to make the trip. He’s even started planning a little family getaway for the three of us next year when Olivia is a bit older. It was a tough conversation, but I feel like we’re on the same page now, and I’m hopeful that things will get better from here.

Thanks again to everyone for your support and advice. It’s been an emotional rollercoaster, but I’m grateful for this community helping me navigate it.

Comments

Bloopie559

That's awesome. You guy worked it out. No for the 1st year even thinking about going away for a week is inconsiderate. Yes he might have had his struggles. But yours was way more mentally n physically for sure.

glitterpantaloons

I’m so happy that you guys were able to communicate so openly and came to a resolution that worked for both of you. Wishing you all the best

ItsbeenBroughton

Read your updates, sounds like he needed to come to grips with him psychologically pulling away. I hope he is the dad your little girl deserves, and the husband you need.

And please share this with him:

Being a girl dad is so fantastic. These rough early months with a chunky baby will soon turn into toothless smiles and an active toddler, and that soon after will be replaced by a jabbering little girl who looks at her daddy with love in a way you never knew. Enjoy the nights where she sleeps and snuggles you where she is safe and yet you cant get a wink in, because one day it will end, and you will miss it. I’ve loved my journey, and I hope you do too.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember to be civil in the comments

I am not The OOP, OOP is

AIO a married Dad from my daughters swim club has sent me an unsolicited sexual picture. I want to report him to the club and tell his wife

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

TRIGGER WARNING: sexual harassment, unsolicited nudes

  Aug 16, 2024

A married Dad from my daughters swim club has sent me an unsolicited sexual picture. He asked for my number to arrange a swim meet.

He messaged me today however what he sent me was an unsolicited sexual picture.

When I asked him why he sent me it, his response was ‘Don’t you want it?’.

I want to report him to the club and tell his wife. I know not ALL guys do this kinda stuff… but it’s happened to me a few times now and I’m sick of it.

I understand that the consequences would be crap for him….. but surely he shoulda thought of that before doing it?

I’ve already screenshotted it so I have the proof

TOP COMMENTS

GSTLT

As a guy, report it. He deserves the consequences.

~

Fiddle-freak

He tried to fuck around, maybe he should find out. Go for it.

~

WashedupPromQueen

You’re not overreacting. Unsolicited sexual photos are just harassment. 100% tell his wife.

  Aug 19, 2024

So a few people asked for an update.. A married Dad from my daughters swim club sent me an unsolicited dick pic.

I ended up telling his wife, the club and the police.

His wife is now considering leaving him because it isn’t the first time he has done something like this.

He has been suspended from the swim club. His daughter and wife can still attend but he can’t.

The police have created a report for the incident and they will be interviewing him. I had to provide them with all the screenshots and they said that it’s enough proof to show that he did it so there’s no point in him denying it.

Thank you all for your advice

TOP COMMENTS

Aussiealterego

Kudos for deciding to go through with the reporting. Guys like this need to be held accountable for their harassment. You’re a star! Hopefully he will actually learn something from this and stop being such a sleaze.

~

Aggravating_Style544

I’m sorry this happened to you, but give you much respect for reporting it.   Since this wasn’t the first time he has done something like this, there is a good chance he would do it again, and at least now, he can’t be around the swim club.   Having consequences is important.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not The OOP, OOP is

WIBTA if I asked someone I thought was my friend why only my bf was invited to their wedding?

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

  May 14, 2024

Editor's Note: changer "R" to Roger for easier reading

Throwaway cause I’ve had my main for long enough that it’s not as anonymous as it could be and I would like to remain so as much as possible here

So for context I (23F) have known this guy (24M, I guess I’ll call him Roger) for 6 years now. He and I were put into a musical ensemble together our first year of college and we stayed in it for 4 years. This group is also where I met my boyfriend (24M) and where my boyfriend met Roger also. There were a couple other guys in the group, and we all were and have remained pretty good friends, especially since the other 4 (including my bf) are in a band together they continued after college. I wasn’t excluded from this group I just really wasn’t interested in the time commitment so I declined to join when they started out. They have actually become pretty well known in our local scene, they’re a really talented group.

Anyways onto the current situation. Roger has been with his fiancé (22F) since before I met him, and when she came to the same school we were in all the rest of us in the group became pretty friendly with her. I wouldn’t really consider her a friend, we have no beef as far as I’m aware, we just aren’t really close and we only really talk at shows. I do like her though and we always make a point of saying hi to each other when we see each other and have a friendly chat. So my bf and I have known these guys literally the same amount of time, we spent all of college with Roger seeing each other at least twice a week for this group although it was usually much more, and we still hang out with them sometimes outside of the band scene.

So Roger is getting married to his fiancé this summer. I of course wished them both congratulations when I heard the news of their engagement. A couple months ago, we got the save the date in the mail. It was addressed to only my boyfriend. Which I thought was a bit odd, but it was only the save the date so I didn’t really think much of it. Put it on the fridge.

Well last week. The wedding invite came. It was again addressed to just my boyfriend. We opened it and there was no indication of even a plus one or anything. Which I really don’t think I should be a plus one for my boyfriend, I feel I should be invited on my own merit. My boyfriend said they maybe just addressed it to him because we live together but like…that’s exactly my point. We live together so if it’s for both of us it should be addressed to both of us, otherwise I assume mail addressed to him is his. I’m honestly incredibly hurt by this. I guess it’s fine if they don’t really see us as friends but I still feel like the fact that they know my boyfriend and I both live here and they know I’m expecting to be invited seeing as everyone else from this old group is makes this feel like a real punch in the gut.

So I guess my question is two fold actually, AITAH for being offended by this in the first place? And WIBTA if I asked them why I wasn’t invited?

  Aug 14, 2024

Hi everyone! This is a throwaway, I used it previously to ask about this situation on AITAH a couple months back but as the event is approaching my fiancé is starting to make me question if I’m actually reading the situation right and I just would really like to get some other takes on the situation!

So to summarize my previous post, we have friends (unsure on that one) getting married this weekend, the question of my last post was about the fact that my name was not on the invitation that was sent to my fiancé’s and my apartment. My fiancé and I met each other at the same time as we met the groom and we got together about a year and some change later, we worked pretty closely in a musical group throughout school, and then my fiancé and the other members of that group decided to continue and form their own band. I was not excluded from this, just was not particularly interested in the time commitment and I don’t regret that decision because they are busy motherf!ckers. But being that my fiancé and I are still together, I still see the groom and his bride-to-be quite often. We’ve never had any beef as far as I know, and we always have friendly conversation and say hello to each other, like each other’s stuff on instagram and whatnot.

Given the background of our relationship, and the fact that my fiancé and I have lived together for 3 years and they sent the invitation to the apartment that we share, the fact that my name was not on the invitation says to me that I am not invited. My fiancé kept trying to say like, “oh maybe they didn’t know they were supposed to put your name on it too,” or insisting it was a mistake because “maybe someone else wrote the invites,” to which I told him they would have written the invites based on the names they were given. I asked if I would be TA if I asked them why I wasn’t invited, to which I was told I would be, and I was probably right I wasn’t invited. Though others did agree on how insanely rude it was of them. I accepted that answer and while I still feel the whole thing was rude, I’ve let it go and I don’t plan to talk badly about them or to them or cause any drama because it’s up to them who’s at their wedding. They won’t be at mine. My fiancé accepted I was right about the situation after another person from this group also recently sent out save the dates for his wedding and both our names were on the invite, and I pointed out to him a month before we’d received an invite from one of my fiancé’s friends I’d only met a couple times, and both of our names were on the invite. But I digress.

The purpose for today’s post is that the wedding is this weekend. For some reason, my fiancé keeps asking me if I’m going. Apparently he asked the groom and he was told verbally that I am invited, but given the fact that my name was not on the invitation, nor was it on the save the date we received earlier, I really can’t just go off of that as enough evidence that I am welcome there. I really believe that if I was invited, after my fiancé asked why my name wasn’t on the invitation, one of them should have reached out directly to me if they actually are expecting me to show up. But they haven’t, and for some reason my fiancé believes they’re expecting me to be there. And he keeps saying he doesn’t want to “have to explain to people why I’m not there.” And I keep telling him there isn’t anything to explain, I wasn’t invited.

But here’s where I’m conflicted. I truly do not want to start drama surrounding their wedding. I respect their decision not to invite me if that’s how they want their day to be, I don’t think anyone should ever have to invite somebody to their wedding that they don’t want to. BUT I also am fully aware that there are going to be several people there who are close to my fiancé and I as a couple who are going to wonder why I am not there, and it may cause a fuss if anyone asks the bride and groom directly. Which I realize may come off as main character syndrome, I don’t really think people will be that concerned about where I am but my fiancé and go everywhere together so my absence will definitely be noticed by our friends and some of them aren’t good at knowing when to just let things be. And so I genuinely have no idea what to do here.

Here are the options I can see right now:

1. Take my fiancé’s word for it that they do want me there despite everything saying the opposite and show up, risking being unwelcome and possibly upsetting them on their wedding day.

2. Don’t go, come up with a fake story for my fiancé to tell everyone so that nobody will try to go poking for gossip.

3. Don’t go, tell my fiancé to either just state the truth, that I wasn’t invited, or he can come up with a story on his own if he’s not comfortable with that.

I’m leaning towards option 3, which honestly does feel kind of petty, and my reasoning is that if they didn’t want people to ask why I’m not there, they should have invited me to be there. Which definitely is a bit petty. But I just don’t see why I should lie for them when they don’t even respect me as my fiancé’s long term partner who they have spent many years getting to know, let alone as a friend to them.

What do you guys think? Is there another option here where I don’t feel like I’m being a doormat while also avoiding coming across as an asshole? Or is this one of those situations where I can really only have the high ground if I cover for them because it’s their wedding day?

Any thoughts and advice welcome, please and thank you!! And feel free to ask any clarifying questions if anything doesn’t make sense or if it seems like anything is missing :)

Also there is one detail I couldn’t quite figure out where to fit in here, but when we initially received the invitation, the second envelope for their wedding addressed to just my fiancé, I talked to a friend of mine about it who vaguely knows who the couple is because I wanted to ask someone who wouldn’t bring it up to them if I was overreacting, and she ended up telling me last month that she found out a different friend of hers who was really good friends with the bride all through school and thought they still were friends was also not invited. Idk if that makes much a difference in the overall take of the situation but it does seem relevant

TL;DR - wasn't invited to friend’s wedding, fiancé was, wedding is this weekend and fiancé keeps trying to convince me I should go and saying he doesn’t want to explain to people why I’m not there. What’s the best way to navigate this?

edit: if you aren’t going to read the post don’t comment. I wanted to ask them for clarification, but since I’ve never been in this position before, I wanted to ask others who maybe have more experience with weddings how I should ask. EVERYONE said that I would be an absolute asshole for even considering asking as it’s their wedding and it is obvious I am not invited and putting them in that position to have to tell me that to my face would be wrong. Instead of getting mad at me for asking for advice on handling this situation, you should have joined in the first time I asked and then maybe the reaction you would have received would demonstrate to you why I thought it was inappropriate to ask.

edit 2: also I apologize that the previous post I mentioned isn’t anywhere to be found. I wasn’t really planning on using this throwaway again and since I’d gotten the answer I needed I just deleted it a couple weeks after I posted it. Idk how to see deleted posts but if anyone can find it you’ll see this post lines up with it and the general comment consensus was that I absolutely should not ask the couple for clarification. Thank you to everyone who had actual advice and helped me figure out the right decision to me, to everyone who’s being super condescending about me not asking them, how would you feel if you didn’t invite somebody to your wedding and then they confronted you about it? I get you should be upfront with them but some people just don’t want to risk the drama and I guess that’s fine too, it’s their day. It’s not really my place to kick up a fuss about it, if it turns out that it was a mistake, then they can explain that to me and we can laugh about it and move on. But if I am in fact right, it would be really shitty to them to make a fuss about it when the day has nothing to do with me. This isn’t about “this generation too scared to talk to people,” it’s actually about having common courtesy to realize when it is appropriate to make a situation about me and when it is not. This is one of those situations where it is not, so I wanted to know the best way to make sure I uphold the fact that I don’t want to be a source of drama for them surrounding their wedding. I did get a lot of good perspectives about possible mistakes that could have happened here, and I’m super happy to accept that as a reality if they explain that to me, but for right now, I’m just going to quietly accept the situation as is and find something fun to do this weekend instead!

  Aug 19, 2024

it won’t let me link the original post for some reason but it’s on my profile!

Hi all! This is not a very interesting update, but several people asked for one, so I thought I would just explain how things went yesterday.

So first of all, I’m very glad I didn’t go. My fiancé was quite unhappy when he came home from the wedding and told me I was on to something. Turns out I was not the only partner that was missing, but my fiancé is still a bit confused by the whole thing because it struck him as really weird who didn’t have their partners there.

Plenty of people did ask about me and where I was, my fiancé just kind of generically told them I couldn’t make it. BUT the bride and groom did not ask about me, though the groom came up to my fiancé and said something about, “can’t wait for your wedding,” which is what made him realize I was right about the whole thing. None of the bridal party (many of whom we know well) asked about me which also stood out to him considering how many of the guests did.

One thing that strikes me as odd is that my fiancé confirmed there was no designated seat for me, but there were a lot of empty seats. Which leads me to wonder if they knew how entirely confusing and weird this was and they were preparing for people’s spouses that weren’t invited to show up and play it off by having a seat available. I don’t know.

That’s pretty much it. The whole thing honestly feels even more confusing after the wedding but I do at least think it’s pretty clear that I was right and made the right decision in not going. No real drama happened, and I’m not gonna really bother to try and find out more from them or from anyone else, but it is disappointing to say the least. My fiancé is pretty disappointed too to find how little these “friends” respect not just me as a person, but me as his partner. But that’s just how it goes sometimes I guess. I really just wish they had been direct, even if the reason the gave was a lie, that I wasn’t invited. I would have understood if they said it was a matter of numbers, but the way they went about this just seems so pathetic and cowardly to me. But it appears as if we weren’t the only long term couple they did this to, so I think it says a lot more about them than it does about me.

Thanks to everyone who gave advice and offered different perspectives. I’m super thankful I posted here because you guys really helped me feel confident in my read on the situation and you all helped me make the right decision to avoid the most drama or embarrassment.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Did the groom ask where OOP was, and just invite the grooms wife to OOP's wedding

He didn’t ask where I was. He said to my fiancé he was excited for our wedding. But did not ask about me, and no one in the bridal party asked him about me, even though plenty of our other friends did, which leads me to believe they all knew I wasn’t invited. If he had asked where I was before or after making that comment, then I think it could be interpreted the way you’re suggesting, but he did not ask about me at all, just made a comment about expecting an invitation to our wedding, even though I wasn’t there at his and he didn’t seem to think that was strange.

edit: we just got engaged at the end of june so we have not set a date yet, it’s not as though they received an invitation to ours already, but he expects to be at ours even though he and his wife did not deem me worthy enough to be at theirs.

Her fiancé sees the best in people and why he went to the wedding

He is and he does! It’s something I love about him, but I do feel sad that he had to go and see for himself, I imagine it was a bit more hurtful to him to realize it then than if he’d accepted it before and chosen to stay home. I don’t fault him for going and I understand why he would think they wouldn’t do this, I also was surprised. And on the other hand, if this was just some major etiquette blunder and they would have asked about me, then the misunderstanding could have been explained there and it would have been harder to clear if we’d both skipped it. But at least now we both know these aren’t people who respect us and we can move forward accordingly.

Only woman were excluded, and maybe because they were too pretty

I suppose that’s a thought. That didn’t occur to me, the partners that my fiancé said were not there are very pretty in my opinion, though none of us look anything like the bride

&

I can’t confirm this because it didn’t occur to me to ask my fiancé, but all of the names he listed of people that were missing that he expected would have been invited with their partner were girlfriends.

&

I am probably going to ask them about it next time I see them just to find out if they had the same questions about the situation as I did. Like I said I really don’t care anymore cause I accepted the situation months ago when we got the invite so I’m not going to confront the couple, but I would at least like to find out how it appeared to the other not invited partners.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS. I am NOT OP. Original post by in

AITA for uninviting my adoptive brothers from my wedding after they said they don’t see me as family?

I’m a 32-year-old man, and I’m getting married to my long-time girlfriend soon. What should be one of the happiest moments of my life has turned into a heartbreaking ordeal because of a deepening rift in my family.

To give you some background: I’m my parents’ biological son, and when I was 12, they adopted two boys who were biological siblings—Jack, who was 8, and Liam, who was 5. From the very beginning, it was clear that things were going to be tough. Jack came with severe behavioural issues due to some intense trauma (I’ll spare the details, but it was significant). I tried my hardest to be understanding, but living with him was nothing short of exhausting. His outbursts were constant, and I often felt like I was walking on eggshells, terrified of setting him off.

As we grew older, I continued to try to be there for Jack, despite everything. A few years ago, Jack fell into a devastating drug addiction. I stood by him through his darkest moments, supporting him through rehab, and doing everything I could to help him get back on his feet. It was draining and heartbreaking, but I did it because I loved him and believed that, despite our challenges, we were still brothers.

The situation came to a head recently at a Sunday dinner at my parents’ house. My son was working on his summer homework, which involved creating a family tree. He innocently asked Jack if he wanted to be included, and Jack just flat-out said no. He didn’t want to be part of it because, in his exact words, “We’re not real brothers.” He said it so casually, like it was the most obvious thing in the world, with no regard for how much it would cut me to the core.

I was utterly stunned, but what shattered me even more was that Liam, who I’ve always felt closer to, just sat there in silence. He didn’t say a word. He didn’t defend me or even acknowledge how hurtful Jack’s words were. He just let it happen. I’ve tried so hard to be supportive of both of them, especially Jack, despite the endless challenges. So, for Jack to say that, and for Liam to do nothing, felt like a gut punch. It was as if they were both telling me that I was never truly part of their family.

I decided to uninvite both Jack and Liam from my wedding. My fiancée has been nothing but supportive of my decision, but my parents are furious. They’ve made it clear that if Jack and Liam aren’t invited, they won’t attend either. It feels like history is repeating itself, with my parents once again prioritising Jack over me, no matter how much it hurts me. I’m absolutely heartbroken that my parents would choose to miss my wedding rather than support me in this.

I know Jack has been through a lot, but I’ve done everything I can to be there for him and for Liam, despite all the heartache. And now, I feel like I’m the one being punished for finally standing up for myself and setting some boundaries.

AITA for uninviting my brothers after they said they don’t see me as family, even if it means my parents won’t come to my wedding?

Relevant Comments

lieyera

Why was your kid even asking him in the first place? That could’ve hurt them too. As a child it would’ve never occurred to me not to include my aunts and uncles in a family tree. What did you say in front of your child to plant the idea that he needed to ask them? And did you correct your kid and say that of course his uncles should be on his family tree? You are also to blame in how this rift started because whether intentional or not you also did not correct the idea that you aren’t “real” brothers/family and it was YOUR child that asked the question. Usually, people feel uncomfortable correcting other people’s children in awkward situations like this. It falls on the parents to talk to their child and get to the root of things.

OOP

Because he's 5 and just wanted to show off what he was doing. I have never said anything to "plant" an idea that they aren't my brothers. He doesn't even know they're adopted. Not because it's something we hide, just hasn't ever been something we really discuss as a family.

Add uncles/aunties to the family tree was an optional extension, and he said it in a way of "come and help me add you in if you want to be" not "you don't deserve to be in the tree".

You're honestly clasping at straws here. I have no issue with someone labelling me TAH, but don't just make up context to decide it.

OOP

I don't blame them or him for his drug addiction. Jack (and Liam) had truly horrible things happen to them both as children. Stuff I won't get into here, but you can understand it was the type of stuff that leaves lifelong scars on you. Even with the butt-load of therapy they've gone through.

One time Jack spoke to me about how when he's high on drugs it's the only time in his entire life where he doesn't constantly remember and only time he ever feels at peace.

Obviously, I shouldn't be the one who is constantly picking up the pieces of him. But I can 100% understand why he got into drugs. (He's still an asshole though)

OOP

The family tree, and Jack's comment, was only the catalyst for the argument that happened.

And yes, there would have been no issues with Jack being included in the family tree.

Update: AITA for Uninviting My Adoptive Brothers from My Wedding After They Said They Don’t See Me as Family?

I’m honestly still reeling from everything that’s gone down since my last post. First off, thank you to everyone who took the time to comment—I’ve read through all your advice, and it’s been a lifeline. But buckle up, because things have taken a wild turn.

After hearing from so many of you, I decided I needed to talk to Liam. We met up at a pub, and I just laid it all out there—how hurt I was when he didn’t say anything after Jack made that awful comment about not being “real brothers.” I was half-expecting him to defend himself, but what I got was something entirely different.

Liam confessed that he’s been living in fear of Jack for years. He told me he kept quiet that night because he was terrified of setting Jack off, not because he agreed with him. Then he dropped a bombshell: despite being Jack’s biological brother, he’s felt just as much of an outsider in our family as I have. The constant pressure from our parents to cater to Jack’s every whim has worn him down, too.

Liam assured me that he’s always seen me as his brother and that he regrets not standing up for me sooner. Hearing that was a huge relief. He’s completely on my side now, and we agreed that if Jack can’t respect me as a brother, he has no place at my wedding—or in our lives.

But just when I thought things couldn’t get more intense, my parents decided to make everything worse. I sat them down and explained why I uninvited Jack, hoping they’d understand. Instead, they threw down an ultimatum: if Jack isn’t invited, they’re not coming to my wedding. No room for discussion, no empathy—just flat-out refusal. I was gutted. After all these years of putting Jack’s needs above mine, this is how they repay me?

I couldn’t hold back anymore. I let out all the anger and frustration I’ve been bottling up for years. I told them how I’ve always been the one sacrificing, how they’ve always prioritized Jack, and that I was done being treated like I don’t matter. I made it clear that if they choose not to come to my wedding, they’re making their choice, and I’ll make mine. With that, I walked out, leaving them to stew in their own decisions.

Out of nowhere, Jack started bombarding me with the nastiest, most hurtful texts I’ve ever received. He accused me of turning Liam against him, of ripping the family apart, and had the audacity to call me selfish for “abandoning” him. He ranted about how he never felt like he belonged in the family and how it’s all my fault for pushing him away.

His words hit hard, but they also opened my eyes. Jack has spent his whole life blaming everyone else for his problems, and I’ve been his favourite scapegoat. This time, though, I’m not letting him guilt-trip me. I didn’t even respond—I just blocked his number. If he can’t see what he’s done wrong, then there’s nothing more to say.

Liam was livid when I told him about Jack’s messages. He’s more determined than ever to support me, and we’ve decided to go low-contact with our parents until after the wedding. Liam’s been a rock through all this, helping me with the wedding plans and making sure I’m not dealing with this mess alone.

So, the wedding is still happening, but with a much smaller guest list. My parents haven’t reached out since our argument, and at this point, I don’t care if they show up or not. This day is about me and my fiancée, and I’m not letting anyone, not even my own family, ruin it.

Thank you again for all your support and advice. I’ll keep you posted if anything else happens—though I’m really hoping my next update is just about how amazing the wedding was. Fingers crossed!

Update 2: AITA for Uninviting My Adoptive Brothers from My Wedding After They Said They Don’t See Me as Family?

Hey everyone, I wanted to give an update after everything that’s happened over the last week. A lot has changed, and I’m grateful to say that things are moving in a much better direction.

Two days after the text argument with Jack, he reached out to me. I wasn’t sure what to expect when he asked if we could meet up, and I was reluctant but I agreed. When we sat down, the first thing he did was apologise. He told me how sorry he was for what he said to my son and admitted that he didn’t know why he said it. Jack seemed genuinely remorseful, and I could tell that he really meant it. This wasn’t just another apology to smooth things over—this was different, and it felt sincere.

After apologising, Jack took a deep breath and confessed something that I probably should have seen coming. He told me that he had relapsed before the argument even happened. Hearing that hit me hard. It explained so much about his behaviour in the weeks leading up to that moment—the irritability, the distance, the way he was withdrawing from everyone. I realised that I had missed all the signs. I’m not proud to admit it, but I was so caught up in my frustrations with Jack's behaviours and my wedding that I didn’t stop to think that something deeper might be going on.

Jack’s confession wasn’t just about the relapse—it was about taking responsibility in a way he’s never done before. He went on to tell me that after realising the damage he’d caused, he had made the decision to check himself into treatment. This might sound like a typical step, but for Jack, it was monumental. In the past, Jack’s only gone into treatment because he was either sectioned by social services and forced into it, or because my parents threatened to kick him out if he didn’t get help. But this time, he made the decision on his own. That was something he’d never done before, and it showed me that he was serious about wanting to change. He told me that he is doing this because the prospects of losing me, his brother, was too much and he couldn't handle it. He wants to take this seriously because he wants to show me he can do it. He told me he sees me as his family, and he feels so guilty for making me feel like I wasn't his family. Jack has also agreed to start taking medication to help calm his nerves, something he would never do before.

It’s now been about five/six days since Jack checked himself in for treatment, and I’ve been visiting him regularly. At first, I went alone because I wasn’t sure how my son would feel about seeing Jack so soon after everything that happened. But after a few visits, I felt it was important for my son to see that Jack was making an effort to make things right. So, I brought him along, and Jack took the opportunity to apologise to him directly. It was a really emotional moment for me as a parent. My son is still young and doesn’t fully understand everything that’s been going on, but he could see that Jack was sorry, and that seemed to make a difference to him. They even spent some time together, just talking and playing, and it felt like a big step forward for all of us.

Throughout all of this, my brother Liam has been incredibly supportive. We’ve talked a lot about Jack, and it’s clear that Liam wants to see him succeed just as much as I do. We both know how much Jack’s trauma has affected him, and while it doesn’t excuse his behaviour, it does help us understand why he’s struggled so much. Having Liam by my side through all of this has made me feel a lot less alone.

Reflecting on everything, I’ve come to realise that I need to take responsibility for my part in how things escalated. In the weeks leading up to the argument, Jack had been doing things that really got under my skin. Instead of addressing it calmly, I let my frustration build until I finally snapped. Looking back, I can see that his behaviours were likely tied to his relapse, and I should have seen that sooner. I feel guilty for not recognising the signs and for reacting the way I did, but I’m trying to focus on what I can do to support Jack now that he’s taking his recovery seriously. When I wrote my first two posts, I was in a place of deep frustration with Jack, and though nothing I said was incorrect or a lie, I definitely painted a picture of Jack's most negative moments without everything else.

I want to remind everyone about Jack's trauma. Jack was a victim of severe abuse by his biological family, including extensive CSA, Liam also but Jack's was a lot more intense. Jack jokes now that he was their biological father's "favourite in all the wrong ways". Jack got into drugs at a pretty young age, but has been clean (or so I thought) for a while. I mentioned this before, but Jack has told me in the past that even now almost 20 years after he was adopted by our parents, there is not a day where he doesn't think/have nightmares about his abuse, he says the only moments of peace he gets is when he's high. Jack's trauma runs deep, and it’s something that continues to affect him every day. I’m not making excuses for his actions, but I do think it’s important to remember that he’s dealing with a lot of pain. Despite everything, I still believe in Jack. I believe that he has the strength to overcome his past, and with Liam and me by his side, I’m hopeful that he can get through this.

I also want to take a moment to thank everyone who offered advice and support on my last post. Your words helped me see things from a different perspective and gave me the push I needed to approach this situation with more compassion. There’s still a long road ahead, but I’m optimistic that we’re on the right path now.

For now, things are looking up. Jack is taking his treatment seriously, and our family is slowly healing. We’re taking things one day at a time, and I’m committed to supporting Jack as long as he’s committed to helping himself. Thank you all again for your support—your advice has been invaluable during this difficult time.

Some of you may call me weak, or naive for thinking this time will be different. But I am prepared to take that risk one more time for Jack as he has shown me over the last week he is genuinely wanting treatment and he wants to be better. Jack's told me he wants to earn back his invite, but not to give it him yet. He said he will prove he deservers it. I really hope so.

Relevant comment from OOP

Yeah some therapy would probably be useful, I haven't had it for a long time now. My parents are still being my parents. I've come to realise that every time they get involved in my relationships they just make things worse. But at least things aren't worse than they were before and they apologised to me for saying they wouldn't come to my wedding.

Reminder - I am not the original poster. DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

2 updates - Long

- 8th August 2024

- 18th August 2024

- 20th August 2024

AITAH for not respecting my girlfriends boundaries about what I call my father?

I (23F) am from the deep south of the united states, while my girlfriend (22F) is from new England, we met at college when we were both freshmen and have been dating for 3 years. Because all of my family is from of the south as well I was hesitant to introduce my girlfriend to them, so they just recently met her (About 6 months ago) and I'm very lucky in that my family has been supportive thus far. My girlfriend likes my family as well, and has fit in well, however, there has been a problem since the beginning that has been worse than normal lately.

The problem is the fact I call my father Sir, not exactly exclusively I do still call him dad, but most of the time I'm addressing him as Sir, for some reason, this makes my girlfriend uncomfortable. The first time she brought it up was after the first time she met my parents, mostly commenting on how she thought it was a little silly, I laughed with her and explained it was just a cultural thing and thought that would be the end of it.

it however was not the end of it. She brought it up nearly every time we saw my parents, and it quickly turned from joking to explaining how it make her uncomfortable and that I shouldn't feel like I have to call my dad that. I explained on multiple occasions that I didn't feel like i strictly had to call him sir, and that it wasn't something that i was punished for not doing as a child or anything, it was just how things were, I call everyone I interact with Sir or Ma'am, from my 4 year old cousin to any adult I speak with. She just didn't seem to get it, i understand that isn't really a thing where she's from, but that's just how things are down here.

Things came to a bit of a head a few days ago when we had dinner at my parents and as usual I called my father Sir- no different than any time I was with him. I noticed my girlfriend was a little quiet at dinner but I didn't think much of it since sometimes she is on the quieter side, however when we got in the car afterwards she started talking about how i call my dad sir yet again.

She explained that it made her uncomfortable because that is a title used for someone who has authority over you (She used the example as in the bedroom) and I shouldn't believe my father has any sort of control over me. I explained that I respected my father as he raised me to be the person I am today, the same with my mom, and once again tried to say that it was little more than a cultural difference between the two of us.

I'm not sure exactly what set her off but she went off about how it made it sound like me and my father had a weird relationship and that it sounded like a fetish. I'll admit, i got angry when she said that, but i did my best to not overreact, I asked her if she felt the same way about me calling my mother Ma'am and she said no.

In the end she asked that I never call my dad Sir, around her or not, and that if I did I was disrespecting her boundaries. I said plain and simple that I was not going to stop calling him Sir and she got silent and is not speaking to me.

I honestly don't see how I might be the asshole here, but I want to hear from other people, if I'm truly in the wrong I will do my very best to fix it and do better

Comments

The_Goddess_Herse1f

NTA It’s really strange how she keeps arguing about what you call your Dad when you’ve always called him that, and you have no problem with it.

thagrynor

Is your gf fucked in the head? How entitled is she that she thinks she gets to dictate the type of relationship and how that relationship is expressed between you and your father?

I normally am very very critical of how quickly people on here jump to "get rid of your partner, they are toxic and horrible" but dude .... she is literally trying to dictate how you speak to your father, whether she is around or not. You have to see how absolutely bat shit insane that is, right? It is your father and your relationship with him. If you feel comfortable, that is all that matters. Calling him Sir isn't weird. It is a cultural thing. I often refer to people as sir, even those younger than me, like at work and stuff. It is simply a sign of respect. It isn't like you are calling him Master or something. Good lord. NTA.

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 10 days later

It's been several days since I made my original post and I thought I would write out this update to clarify some things and explain some things that have happened since.

First some things to clarify, I not only call my dad Sir, but pretty much every male in my life, from young children I work with to homeless people on the street, the same goes with calling females Ma'am, it is just my father my girlfriend has a problem with me calling Sir- no other males. Also, for everyone suggesting or outright asking, the title Sir has no place in our bedroom life, we use titles- that is not one of them.

Anyway, I've tried several times over the past week to speak with my girlfriend about what went down, but she refused to talk for the most part and I wasn't going to push her. It wasn't until tonight that I finally got a chance to sit down and have a real conversation with her. I read every single comment my original post got, and asked her about several things. Someone suggested I ask if she had been any example of my father trying to control me in any way, this got her worked up and she walked away from the conversation for a little while claiming i was trying to attack her, I gave her time to calm down and was honestly surprised when she returned to the conversation.

She explained to me that it wasn't that she had seen specific things with my father trying to control me, but rather an undertone that I was in his control, i asked what she meant but she didn't really have any other explanation beyond that. I honestly don't know what undertones she was talking about, i respect my father and his knowledge and experience beyond mine, but I am a grown adult, I live and think independently and am perfectly capable of making my own decisions- I've occasionally asked for my fathers advice on things since we've bee together (Life advice not relationship) and that may be what she's talking about, but I'm not sure. Another thing people brought up was a possibility of her having trauma around the title, I experienced regular sexual abuse as a child and she knows that, so we've had conversations around the topic but this was the first time I asked her outright if she had been through anything like that and that if that was the case I would not hesitate to call my father something else to avoid triggering her, she said no- that she hadn't been through anything like that and i obviously believe her, that isn't something she would be dishonest about.

However, my offer to stop saying it if it was triggering her did the opposite of what I had hoped, she blew up at me screaming that if I could stop because she was triggered than why couldn't i stop just because she didn't like it, i tried to stay calm and explain that being weirded out by something is nothing close to having traumatic thoughts triggered but she just kept going. In her yelling she mentioned her boundary again, and that I was being toxic. At this point I could feel myself getting angry and said we could finish the conversation another time, she stormed out and I haven't spoken to her at all for the past several hours.

Now I've just been contemplating, I really don't want to give in and change how i address other people, I feel like she is being unreasonable- but maybe I'm the one being unreasonable. I'm just unsure how to proceed here the thought of possibly ending the relationship has come up, but that seems like me making a bigger deal out of it than it is. Idk, I'd be thankful for any advice on what to do.

Comments

The_Goddess_Herse1f

I remember your original post, it sounds to me like you can’t move forward together unless she agrees to go to therapy… It sounds like she has unresolved issues she needs to work out for you both to move forward together

Pleasant-Koala147

I’m going to repeat what a few people in your OP mentioned:

Boundaries are rules about how you will respond to people’s treatment of you. You cannot ever set a boundary on other people’s actions or behaviours. That’s not a boundary; that’s control.

An appropriate boundary for your girlfriend would be “I won’t date someone who calls her father Sir”. It’s odd, but that’s her boundary. What she’s doing is trying to control the way you interact with your father. That’s not ok.

Now you need to decide if you want to set some boundaries around what kind of behaviour you’re willing to tolerate here, because I’d be questioning her behaviour in this relationship if her demand comes down to “Do what I tell you to simply because I’ve told you to do it.” That is not the foundation of a healthy relationship.

Update - 2 days later

I plan for this to be my last update about this unless something crazy happens or i otherwise feel like I need to. I've read all your comments over and over again, and I want to thank so many of you for explaining how boundaries are supposed to work so clearly, or to those who presented reasons why my girlfriend might be uncomfortable, everything has been helpful.

Honestly after posting my last update and getting comments about how my girlfriend is crazy and a walking red flag I got a little defensive, not wanting to think that about her, but more recent event's have really opened my eyes

My girlfriend returned to our home the morning after i posted the first update but didn't want to talk, but I didn't mind cause it gave me more time to think. Eventually I told her we needed to sit down and have a real conversation, no yelling, no accusations, and if she did either of those things I would be pausing the conversation. She wasn't happy but she agreed to it.

I asked her again about trauma, more specifically her relationship with her father, i've interacted with her father many times and haven't noticed anything, but not all things are easily noticeable, so I asked anyway, she said that I was projected my own issues with my father (Which i don't have) onto her and I can't comprehend a appropriate and respectful relationship between father and daughter, i did my best to not react to this and moved on. we talked in circles for a long time about everything that happened and she eventually yelled out that she didn't feel respected in our relationship, that her telling me the first time that me calling my father Sir made her uncomfortable that that should have been the end of it, that I shouldn't be prioritizing something as stupid as what I call my father over her, and that if I didn't stop she would be breaking up with me. she also mentioned she didn't like how often we went to see my family (5 ish times a month) that worried me and I asked her if she felt unwelcome or anything around my family and she said no, but talked about how I am an adult who needs to live my own life and once again brought up breaking up with her if i didn't change things.

I ended the conversation when it didn't seem like she had anything else to say and said i needed to do some thinking. I've thought for a while and finally have made the decision to break things off with her, it's not an easy decision and I still feel a little ridiculous for breaking it off over something so little as this, but I've come to realize that it's not just that, if this is the kind of person she is going to be, and how she was going to go about conflict I think it's best if I'm no longer with her. I haven't had the conversation with her about that yet, but I know i need to soon. I sometimes struggle to put my thoughts together the right way so any advice on how to approach that without setting her off again would be appreciated.

again, thank you all for giving your thoughts, it's really helped me to understand things more and know it's not all a problem in my head

Comments

Stoic_STFU

You should repeat her words back:

You don’t feel respected in the relationship and you telling her that you would not stop calling your father sir or spend less time with your family - which should have ended the conversation about her issues with your doing so- the first time?!

Say you agree- and she shouldn’t be with someone who she feels doesn’t respect her boundaries and her deflecting, combative behavior and actively avoiding real conversations, as well as the disrespectful and repeated disregard for your feelings hurt you and you are not going to be involved with anyone who treats you the way she has.

There’s something wrong with her and she’s doing way too much to DARVO you about it.

You now know who she is and it’s strange how your relationship with your father has her having a conniption and trying to coerce you with the threat of ending your relationship for your calling him sir?!

DivineTarot

Yeah, she's definitely toxic.

It's a classic case of someone with a cooler relationship with family projecting a sexual image onto warmer more tight knit families. It's a weird thing really, just as those with loving families can't process parental estrangement, those whose families were dysfunctional or distant can't process the idea of a family where everyone is just kind to each other and respects one another. When me and my siblings were growing up a school councilor questioned my mother on why my eldest sister was protective of me, and said it was "unnatural." If your first response to someone having a close family bond is to assume sex, than you, or more specifically she, has a dirty mind.

However, her desire to try and drive you away from your family is another really nasty trait that it's good you're avoiding. 5 times a month is not a lot, but apparently she finds it smothering? And of course, because she feels a certain way that means you should jump to her tune? What about your tune? Does it not matter? That's where that kind of selfish thinking inevitably fails, she doesn't care about your feelings because hers are more important, more valid, more...true or whatever.

So, again, it's good you're dumping her. She was quick enough as it is to threaten to break up with you anyways, best to give her what she wanted.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OOP. OOP is

Originally posted to

Previous

[New Update – 9 Months later]: AITAH for divorcing during my husbands mental health crisis

Trigger Warnings: mental crisis, infidelity, verbal abuse, emotion abuse, gaslighting, emotional neglect, abandonment, financial abuse, harassment, controlling behavior

RECAP

: August 17, 2023

Me (38F) and husband (38M), married since 2009 and we have a preteen daughter. Last 3 years have been really tough on us because of my husbands bad working conditions that started to effect his mental health. I noticed signs of burn-out and depression and brought up these concerns regularly to him. He was very dismissive and refused to see his situation and refused therapy.

He started becoming distant and often isolated himself and was regularly butting heads with our daughter. He eventually told me that he had met a woman at work. Their relationship was not, according to him, physical but he was in love with her and felt that she was his soulmate and best friend.

He said he was very sorry and that he could not decide which woman he would ultimately be happiest with. He spoke out about this at home whilst I was having the toughest time of my life. I cried alone over my dreams and plans, everything we had together.

He also told me that in order to clear his head, he would need to leave the house and spend some time on his own. THAT co-worker had offered him her spare room and he was going to take it. I asked for his help organizing the rest of the school year as I was commuting and I promised him that as soon as the school year was over, I would look for an apartment closer to my work and me and our daughter will move out and he can have the house to himself for his healing.

I found an apartment almost immediately and we moved. He visited us one weekend a month and brought his chaos with him every time. The new home had become a safe haven that we cherished and he "took it over" as soon as he appeared, and it felt like I wasn't breathing until he finally left. After 6 months of living like this, I decided I had given things enough time to mend and they had not, I was still hurt and bitter and he was still cagey about what was going on and what his ultimate decision really was. I told him I was done living like this and that I wanted a divorce. He absolutely lost his shit and left and drove back to our old house in the middle of the night just to get away from me.

A week later he told me the co-worker is pregnant and he was angry that I didn't want to even try to fix our marriage. Since then, he has gotten increasingly more hostile and accusatory in his communication with me. He blames me for breaking up the marriage and abandoning him during his crisis. He says he was not himself and has no idea why he did the things he did but that I was the one who left. He claims I was no help when he needed me and that I had clearly mentally abandoned our relationship long before (more than 3 years prior). He tells me I'm cold and calculating and clearly "not the person he thought I was".

I understand that he is not well, he finally did go to therapy. I explained a lot of his actions with that in mind at first. So AITA he claims I have become, taking his daughter away and leaving?

Relevant Comments

BigBayesian: You took your daughter and yourself from an unstable living situation. Sure, maybe it'd have become stable tomorrow - but you gave it a lot of time.

His mental health crisis may mean he's out of his mind. But either he's still responsible for his actions, or he's not. If he is - you left him because of his actions. Seems reasonable. If he's not responsible for his actions, then you left him because he's deeply in crisis for an extended period, and you can't continue to live that way, or have your daughter live that way.

I'm curious and concerned about your daughter's experience of this. Those are the people my heart goes out to most - your daughter, and your husband's new child. Because everyone else, AH or not, was some form of a volunteer for this. The kids get no choice but all the consequences.

But I don't think leaving your husband while he's in crisis is unacceptable, especially given the long duration and terrible experience, for you, of that crisis.

NTA

OP: Honestly it's our daughter i'm mostly worried about in all this. He clearly has changed a lot, no matter how much his mental health plays into it. Everything we used to be so much of one mind has changed for him. He will not keep his opinions to himself when our daughter visits him and honestly I'm left to pick up the pieces when she comes back and slowly opens up to what his father has been talking during his visit.

I'm really trying my best not to ever speak ill of him in front of her and i basically keep my family in the dark because I don't want them to have an attitude towards him that could reflect on her.

He seems to have no such issues as I'm slowly finding out. He chews me up in private conversations, which i can deal with, but he also says stuff like "after your mother kicked me out, i can't help you anymore" and "all I want is to have our family back" to our daughter and I feel that's horribly unfair. He's really wallowing in his misery right now and I have still sympathy for him but he is burdening his daughter and painting me an absolute villain.

He still hasn't told her about the new baby, and honestly I'm a little at a loss at what to do about it.

: August 22, 2023 (4 days later)

Hello /AITAH, I have been reading all the comments on the original post and tried to answer as many of the questions as I could. The original post can be found through my user page.

I wanted to write an update since my post seemed to raise some questions and also to thank you for your engagement on the post, it has meant a lot to me. You have given me good advice, some really good things to think about and some tough love and criticism I surely needed. Thank you so much.

The divorce is in process, and I have not seen him in person for some 4 months at this point. He mostly keeps radio silence until it seems he has to unload some hurt on me. I’ve kept my contact to him to a minimum, only ever messaging him in things regarding our daughter or requesting him to react to official paperwork or to his electricity bills that I’ve transferred to him.

Due to the circumstances in which we started this separation originally, I paid most of his living expenses, mainly since I have a steady job and get paid double his salary. He is still very much incapacitated by his mental health issues, and I wanted to alleviate some of the practical matters for him. Now that we are pulling everything apart, he has been (maybe purposefully) making this into a very slow and frustrating process. Currently I still pay for his electricity and he reimburses those bills for me at the end of each month, sometimes he needs “encouraging”.

Usually this leads to him messaging me all day, usually complaints on how I’m now raising our daughter, now that I have made him obsolete (his words). Telling me to “get a new dad” to help me with the job as soon as possible. He seems to try very hard to push my buttons by saying things like “it must be very hard for you to send your daughter to someone who you loathe and hate so much” and if I make the mistake of losing my temper, even for one curse word, he will turn immediately and tells me to calm down, stop spitting acid and maybe we should continue our discussion when I’m not so wound up.

I have mainly chosen to not engage in these conversations if when they start going off the rails. I have all of his outbursts in writing.

I’m also currently under the impression that the co-worker is not interested in a relationship with him anymore. And all of those who asked: yes, the baby is his by his own word. He still has not told our daughter about any of it. I have chosen to give him an ultimatum on the matter. I will bring it up one more time when we have our official meeting with our Child Welfare Officer next month (that’s the official route where we live) and if he still refuses I will take it to myself to tell our daughter the truth. So many of you have encouraged me to do this for her sake and for the sake of our relationship and I thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

I have also contacted her school therapist and the curator and informed them of the issues she is facing now and the ones still to come. I’m hoping they will offer her some scheduled help since I know she is shy on telling me everything. She is the most important thing in my life and as sorry as I am for her having to go through this essentially because of my choices, I refuse to take all the blame now, and I’m ready to shift it where it belongs.

Personally I’m a much happier person these days. I feel bursts of gratefulness and true happiness these days just by watching her eat her dinner and talk to me about her day at the dinner table, in our clean and peaceful home. Even my houseplants are thriving as silly as it sounds :D

I have finally opened up about all of this to some of my friends and my siblings and they have all been super supportive. And my siblings were clearly shocked but both did bring up that they are somehow not surprised it all went this way.. They seem to have seen things a bit more clearly from afar just like this community did. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, I feel like my daughter and me are going to be just fine in the end.

Relevant Comments

tenhinas: I actually laughed out loud at the part where he told op his AP was pregnant but he can’t believe op doesn’t want to fix the marriage in the same breath. Like… buddy, do you hear yourself?

OP: Honestly at that point, I had already made up my mind and when I sat there and listened to his rant, I got the feeling that so much more was to come. When he finally told me about the pregnancy I nearly laughed out loud myself. It was so absurd that it felt like the whole drama had been turned into a farce. Like people would never believe me if I told the whole story.

And with that reaction I realized that I really was mentally in a better place, one foot out the door and not ever going back, this was not my shit show to deal with anymore.

Separate_Kick3186: Stop paying the electricity bill. Stop being sympathetic or empathetic with him. Do not engage.

You need to do this for yourself, you owe that to yourself.

OP: My friends have also told me to just drop the electricity contract from my plan and have him figure it out. Logically I know it takes one call for him to make a new contract. He gives me excuses I know are false but since I also know how passive his mental health issues have made him and how insurmountable small things can become, I find it so difficult to do this and "go back on my word".. there is also the fear how making our currently bad relationship even worse will inevitably reflect on our daughter and getting through all the legalities. I can't wait until it's all done and dusted..

: November 18, 2023 (3 months later)

Hello Reddit, It has been months since my original post and update. People were very nice to me and offered me really good advice and lot's of emotional support and needed criticism. I took a lot of it to heart and made good progress for my daughter and myself.

I finally separated the rest of our finances, stopped paying his bills and made official agreements on child support and custody which remained shared for now as he went back on his word to give it to me uncontested. He did not agree to sign an official visitation agreement because "he cannot commit to it right now". I offered him every other weekend and half of all holidays. He has started to meet our daughter more often though since nowadays she actually visits him on her own free will. It seems that their relationship has gotten a bit better lately which I'm of course happy about.

He has been absolutely terrible towards me though. He started a campaign of passive aggressive texting after I asked him to be civil. Now every message is overly syrupy and filled with overflowing apologies. I ignored this until he decided to talk to me face to face when we went to sign the agreements.

He told me his therapist told him to talk to me "for closure" and speak his mind. So he did. He once again just explained to me how hard the last year has been and how I tore the marriage apart. How he was not ready to accept this divorce and never will be. How nothing in his current life is what he wanted or asked for and considers it an insult if I congratulated him over the upcoming baby etc. This felt really off considering he just had moved in with her affair partner. He originally tried to hide this too and was evasive but of course our daughter found out the next time she visited and also told me.

I know it is pointless but I felt I needed to say something too so I told him that he completely continues to ignore all my pain and the mental work I had to do over this whole thing and I can't help the fact that my love died in the process. He says I didn't even try. He said even my parent's were more supportive of him, because they had exchanged pleasantries having met briefly a few weeks prior. His co-workers were more supportive than me. I told him to look in the mirror and that his little passive aggressive game was so obvious. Clearly it hit home because he stopped immediately after. He has also been snooping over my "dating life" through our daughter and is very jealous (says so) and get's very verbally aggressive over it.

Now the thing that brought me back to you here tonight, is that despite my life having turned so much better in the last few months and me and my daughter have been happier than in a long while, I fell into an unexpected hole today. He was supposed to have her over this weekend but ended up cancelling. The reason he gave me was different than what he gave our daughter so I knew he lied to someone. Yesterday he blew up on me over texts that originally started as a discussion over our daughters visits. He started the same old song of me being so petty over such a minor thing as his "affair" that was apparently not even a real affair at first. He wrote that my parents were right about me being "too sensitive". He knows how low of a blow this is since he has been supporting me through my issues with my parent's invalidating all of my gripes my whole life with "you are too sensitive". I told him how low that was and that he does not get to quantify my pain and he totally lost his marbles to the point where I had to stop reading his messages because I was afraid I would start to cry in the office.

This morning our daughter runs to me crying happy tears and jumping of joy. Her father had sent her pictures of the newly born little sister. I congratulated the new official older sister and we gushed over the pictures a little. Throughout the day my mood has just been awful. I've gotten messages from my family asking how I am (because daughter of course told everyone, which is totally ok) but it's starting to weigh on me. I have been tired and easily irritated. All of a sudden I felt like I had no one to talk to. No one who would really understand, someone unbiased. An adult to talk to.

Those have been my hardest moments in all of this. I lost my best friend when we fell apart and when ever I feel like I really need to open up and spill my heart, it reminds me of how alone I feel. Is it a normal reaction? I have been fine and very emotionally cut off from him for so long and somehow the birth of this baby sent me into this sudden nosedive today..

I felt like I needed to tell all of this in my lowest point in a long while. So thank you for reading.

If I fail at linking my previous posts here, please look into my profile, they are my only posts. Thank you and happy upcoming holiday season everyone! and

----NEW UPDATE----

: August 19, 2024 (9 months later)

Hello dear redditors <3 It’s been a while since I posted an update but since some people have reached out to me still, I thought I’d make one. Honestly at this point I feel the title no longer fits as I have realised my error but I will keep it for clarity sake. First of all, to everyone who offered help and advice or just reached out to give a virtual hug: thank you so much, from the bottom of my heart. You can find my original post and updates from profile, they are my only posts.

I remember the last time I posted I was feeling a sudden setback due to my daughter’s little sister being born. My girl has been so happy over her and loves her dearly. I really hope the sister’s get to keep their relationship no matter what happens with their dad.

Most of my personal life is going great, I finally managed to save enough to buy us an apartment and have been busy renovating it. My work life is great, I really love my job and I got promotion which really helped on the house hunt. And for my siblings and friends, they have truly saved me and my mental health during this journey. I’m very happy where I am in life and have no real drive to find a partner. Sometimes I do feel that I’m maybe a bit too jaded and harsh still when it comes to love. I don’t like that but I guess it too will heal over time. All this “hurts” my ex as I get to hear after he hears from these things from our daughter. He wrote to me that it feels like he was dragging me back and his absence has now allowed me to thrive.

My ex- husband is not doing well. Of course all I hear of him is what he tells me and what my daughter tells me in passing. We had to make a new child support agreement as the one we made originally had a fixed period. In that hearing I got to hear a lot about his current state of affairs and I have to say the new woman of the house is not playing around! She has made him pay all utilities and groceries and all miscellaneous household fixes, whilst she just pays her home loan. I was impressed. He did complain during the hearing that he barely has money for going to therapy as it is, and when it turned out that the child support had been miscalculated last time (state paid for him) he went into total despair over the amounts.

He started messaging me right after the hearing and implied he no longer has money for therapy and that I should know that he is the only breadwinner in the house, and that he will not be able to have her daughter over so much now since she eats like a horse and he can’t afford it. I reminded him she eats on the 26 other days of the month too, not just the 2 weekends she spends with him.. This summer he agreed to have her over for a few weeks during his holiday because I agreed he wouldn’t have to pay child support for that month. The situation is sad and it’s not getting better.

The last straw for me came a few weeks ago when we she was spending time at his place. He had already picked a fight a few days prior but I had refused to engage so he “stormed out”, meaning he left my last message unread for 3 days. The silent treatment I used to get when we were still together was exactly like this too. He clearly had been building up steam during those days and then all of a sudden blew up my phone with message after message telling me how “bad I was at this”, meaning arguing I assumed, and twisting everything I had said into a version that made me look like a total asshole.

I once again refused to engage and told him that this no longer concerns me and he should find someone else to argue with. That angered him so that he swapped tactic and told me that he had shown our daughter these messages to prove that I am not so “nice I pretend to be”. That got me from zero to furious in an instant, though not for the reasons he implied. I told him that this was hands down the most selfish thing he could have done and that this is his daughter he is damaging with this behaviour.

I told him I’m absolutely done with him and I will not be in contact with him anymore apart from issues directly related to our daughter and her matters. He then totally swapped personality, it felt like, and started with these really whiny self-pitying “why are you being so mean to me” -messages that he then topped with “I still love you”s and other weird bullshit. I was no longer answering so the last message he sent was to say that he infact had NOT shown her any of my messages and that “my sanctity was intact”.

I went to pick up my daughter the next day as I felt really uneasy and really needed to personally be there. And maybe I could get her to talk to me during the car ride if he had been talking “his truths” again. And as we took a pit stop and had some ice cream, she quietly asked me to “please don’t take me away from dad..”

My heart absolutely broke, I asked her why would she think that and she revealed to me that my ex-husband had told her about our custody disagreements in the form of “mommy wants full custody”. I explained to her that even if I had full custody it would not take visitation if it was deemed to be good for her. She said she wanted her dad to be there for her school graduation and I said her father has all the rights in the world to be at the school event and all she needed to do was to make sure she invited him.

And I know this will now work in my favour and not his. I have invited him to her birthday parties too and he never comes (I haven’t told her this). Now I made sure that she knows I’m not against any of this and by making sure SHE invites him, he can now make his excuses directly to her. Part of me hates having to be in this war at all, but I feel like he leaves me no choice.

A few days later she asked me why I am so mean to daddy.. I asked her why does she think that and she revealed that dad had shown her some of my messages.. So yes, his last message to me was once again a lie.

Now as many of you have been warning me, this is parental alienation and downright mental abuse on her. I called the local CPS to ask for advice on how to proceed and if I should file a complaint on him and what would follow. My daughter has already been seeing the school counsellor and as she has now started in a new school I will be seeking the same help from there too, for them to evaluate and refer her to therapy.

I was told by the CPS worker that this will be documented and that I should weigh now the possible consequences. They are totally for me filing an official complaint but as we have shared custody what will follow is a session for both parties individually for a discussion and then evaluation on the severity of the situation. The CPS worker said that 2 things can happen: he takes it to heart because someone else brings it up, or he gets mad and makes our already strained communication even worse and possibly retaliates. Knowing him, it’s the latter. They also told me that if I get more evidence on him manipulating our daughter then I should just file anyway. Like I have mentioned before, all our communication is in writing and I have saved all of it.

So I’m currently torn between trying to figure out what kind of damage my poor daughter will have.. the trauma of being cut from her father and little sister or the trauma of being mentally manipulated against another parent and being used as ammunition in a war that is not her making. Whichever it will be I know she will blame me and that probably is my just punishment too, I failed to protect her. And to those who say I should not protect my ex and just tell her everything.. it’s not him I’ve been trying to protect but her. She should not be in this situation but I admit, due to his actions, here we are now anyway. He mocked me for being so naïve that I really though amicable co-parenting was stuff that people can do.. well I sure as shit can’t do it alone.

And children are very perceptive, she knows her father “got another woman pregnant” as she puts it. But she is also being fed this weird narrative by her dad where I clocked out of that marriage years ago and was just pretending and “all he needed was a hug” but I turned my back on him and abandoned him like I “abandoned my parents” because I just couldn’t “get over it” like everybody else on this planet could. All his words from his rant messages. And she does talk to me still so I can verify he does really tell these things to her.

So here we are, the good, the bad, and the batshit insane. All I hope is that can make the right decision for my daughter and that she could grow to be a healthy and happy adult. If that requires her to come to me one day and ask for me to justify the things I did and said, then I’m happy to have that conversation with her.

Thank you everyone for your messages, support and criticism <3

Comments

WearyYogurtcloset589: He takes his frustration out on you because he can't do it to his new woman.

She makes him pay all the bills, but when the 2 of you were together you paid for most things.

The crappy behavious that you entertained throughout your marriage his AP refuses to, hence he harasses you because he can't take it out on her.

Your daughter is old enough, it's time that you tell her the whole truth.

Otherwise, he'll continue to fill your child with his lies, making you seem like the bad person.

Also, get a coparenting app to communicate through, so you have all the evidence you'll need if you choose to go back to court.

And only communicate about your daughter,nothing else.

And stop waiving the child support,if he has to pay a certain amount,then that's what he has to pay,you're still being nice to him and he's still being a total ass towards you.

It's getting better for you, and will be 10 times better when you start ignoring that fool.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . She posted in

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. Latest update is 7 days old.

Mood Spoiler: good ending for OOP

Original : August 14, 2024

my boyfriend and i planned a trip for the end of the summer months ago. last night we were still trying to decide how we’d get to the airport, when my mom told me that she could take us before work. i told my boyfriend who lives 30 mins from my house to be at my house no later than 6am for my mother to drive us to the airport at 6:15. he promised that he would be there around 5:45.

this morning, he was nowhere to be seen or heard from until around 6:20. he told me that his phone “fell” and he didn’t hear it. by then, my mom had to leave and take just me or she’d be late to work. i told him that he should drive to the airport or get an uber. his mom decides that she will drive him an hour to the airport, since he was too late for my mom to take us.

he gets to the airport a little after me and i check in our bags. we get to the bag drop, and he realizes he does not have his ID. his wallet is at his house which is about an hour from the airport. i tell him that i’m going to continue to TSA and go to the gate. his mom is going back to get his wallet, which will obviously take a while.

i tell him that i’m getting on the flight regardless, and that if he misses it then it’s a result of his own mishaps. he then begins to ask me what to do if he misses it. i tell him that he’s an adult, and should figure out a way to make it to our destination by contacting customer service.

i planned everything for the trip down to the flights and travel arrangements. i feel like at this point, i’ve done all i can do to ensure a successful and smooth trip and i don’t feel as if it’s my responsibility to do damage control for him if he misses the flight. there is no refund for the airBNB that we split the price for if we do not go. AITAH for continuing without him?

Relevant Comments: (OOP had hundreds of comments so I only picked a few)

Commenter: Is he like this in other aspects of life? Honestly, it sounds exhausting. If so, some time alone will help you gain some perspective. Enjoy your trip, alone or otherwise.

OOP: He’s often late, which is why I told him an earlier time specifically to avoid that. I called him endlessly and he didn’t wake up until way after the time we agreed upon. His mom had to go to him and wake him up. I told her that I was going to leave without him and she said, “He was up late”. So was I…I already told him that I was getting exhausted of planning literally everything and that I want him to begin to take some charge and responsibility, and this happens…

Commenter: Sounds like maybe he should go on a trip with his mom instead, since she’s so willing to put up with his 💩💩.

OOP: This is a pattern that I’ve noticed from her repeatedly. It’s definitely making me reconsider some things now.

Commenter: It feel like you are mothering him, since you need to keep on calling him to wake up and keep up with the itinerary for the trip. Does he alway need to keep on rely on people to remind him?

OOP: He has overslept and been late for different things on multiple occasions. He does work hard and used to work night shifts, so I let it slide. But he did not work yesterday and took a nap during the day. For context - I didn’t take a nap, did errands all day and stayed up late for online class. Still woke up on time 🙃

Get on that plane!

I’m going to board! When we were checking our bags, he asked me how to put the bag tag on… at that point I was over it and already decided I’m taking this vacation, with him or not. He’s actually leaving for Marine bootcamp on Sept. 3 which is why we planned the trip.

OOP clarifies:

I have ADHD as well so I understand. I’ll forget where I put a hair clip that’s in my hair. I tell him to set multiple alarms all the time and he has an Apple watch that’s never charged.
(to another commenter): I have ADHD so I completely understand. The issue with that is, he doesn’t really advocate for himself. He has struggled with mental health issues and refused to go to therapy. He has cystic acne and only this year saw a dermatologist because I called around places in our state until I found someone that would schedule an appointment.

Commenter: NTA. Please update as to whether or not he made the flight.

OOP: He’s currently asking me the gate number (I already told him). I told him to download the app and gave him the confirmation number. He told me to “stop making it harder for him”.

Commenter: Did you reply "Stop making it harder for ME"

OOP: I put my phone on airplane mode, as the pilot directed 😂

Commenter: Erm...how do I say this gently...

What are his redeeming qualities?

OOP: He’s very kind, loving, respectful, and will provide just about anything morally or materially that I need. Buuut considering whether that’s enough now.

Commenter: Did he make the plane?

OOP: No. Coming later tonight on another
(to another commenter:) Lol, he didn’t make the flight but he’s on another one later tonight. I also was really beginning to enjoy the idea of going alone.

Commenter: Best part of this story was, my bf, not my fiancée, keep him if you want, but how long do you want to give him enough time to grow up?

OOP: Lol, that’s true. We have been discussing marriage for a while. I’m going to reverse that discussion later today.
(to another): Well, we’re on the trip together for 5 days. He’s arriving later I don’t want to sour the rest of the time. But once we return I will make an important decision.

Mini Update: 16 hours later

He’s here. I told him I don’t want to talk about it tonight.

Mini Update 2: next day

There are no bad vibes. We had a conversation and he agreed with my concerns.

Update : August 18, 2024 (4 days later)

This is long, but asked for. Skip the first body of text if you read the OG post.

I think the trip - despite the mishaps and the conclusion that I’m going to come to at the end of this note - was eye opening for me and I’m grateful for it. I have had a track record of misjudging and misinterpreting behaviors, and I promised myself that it wouldn’t happen again. So I set my boundaries early. The trip began with him oversleeping and therefore not meeting me at my house to carpool to the airport. Not a heinous act in itself, but something that has happened multiple times on different occasions. Once he finally awoke and met me at the airport, late, his discovered that he did not have his wallet. The most important thing to have when traveling. Wondering how someone could forget something so essential, I waited for him to look for it to no avail. He called his mother - blaming her for rushing him in the morning (which could have been avoided by him being a responsible adult and waking up on time and preparing his things the night before) and not taking any accountability. Luckily, she came to his rescue. But not soon enough. He had to rebook his flight and arrived later that day. In the process, still asking me what gate number the flight was (while the gate number was displayed on a screenshot that he sent me), instead of using the information that I spoon fed to him. I organized the entire trip. Down to transportation, flight, accommodations, and more. I gave him a small ball to carry, and he still dropped it. In the process of dropping that ball, he failed to take accountability for his actions. I should’ve known how the rest of the trip would go.

During the trip, there were multiple instances that solidified the feelings that were already looming. Outbursts of anger that were followed by child-like behavior and excuses. When confronted, there were only excuses and a lack of accountability. All followed by, “but I’m trying so hard”, “what am I doing wrong?”, despite the issue being directly explained. He lost his debit card and despite my efforts in tracing his steps, calling businesses we visited, and everything, he stormed off ahead of me in range, leaving me behind, walking alone on the street. When I explained why that bothered me and was unacceptable, here came more excuses and rambling about how he didn’t mean for it to happen, but still did it.

While walking to different restaurants, he cussed at men who’d even look at me. Stare them down and almost cause a scene.

He misplaced his wallet before dinner, and acted in the same rage full manner - cussing, slamming things, throwing items around, instead of calmly looking for his wallet. I sat there in disbelief, as this behavior had not been something I had seen before. I told him that this was unattractive and demonstrated a lack of control and emotional maturity. More excuses.

There are probably more examples that I could use, but they’re fleeing my mind. It’s the night before departure. I’m in tears. It started at the beach. We decided to take a night swim. All was well, until he lost his ring in the ocean. Luckily, I was right next to him, so I was able to quickly use my hands and grab it. He got out to put it in the sand (smart, right). Once we were done, he got upset that I sent his mom a video of him dancing. I walked away because I didn’t want to hear it. He then called me back to tell me that he lost his ring in the sand. We look for the ring (by we, I mean me on my hands and knees and him walking around with a flashlight). I finally find it. We begin to walk back to the room. I say, “can I say something serious? I am beginning to feel like your mother sometimes. Keeping track of your things and helping you do damage control”. He responds with a lot - how I didn’t have to help him, how I don’t acknowledge everything he’s been doing (like calling Ubers and paying for things), how I’m not like his mom and how he didn’t ask me to do anything. In anger, I tell him fuck you and walk away. Yes, I know this is unkind and I did apologize for my behavior later.

I walk to the room alone. He begs me to talk when he gets there, and I don’t want to. I shower and tell him one thing, “this trip has really made me reconsider whether I want to be in the relationship”. He goes berserk - begging me please to talk to him, saying that I don’t acknowledge all the “good” he’s doing, on and on. I tell him that I don’t wish to have the conversation, don’t wish to be touched, and want to be left alone. Here, I also apologize for my rude words (without making any excuses). He tells me I’m always rude (prior to dating, I did use harsh words when he showed up to my house unexpectedly and demonstrated other signs of emotional immaturity and ignored my wishes).

He begins to try to hug me, I tell him to get off of me. He continues to touch me as I try to lay down in the bed, trying to hug and hold my hand. Here, I break down in tears. I run to the bathroom and begin to sob. I come out, as he’s continually crying and begging me to talk to him. He begins to raise his voice and make a scene. I run to grab the pull out bed from the closet to sleep on. He blocks me and pushes the bed, telling me I don’t need it. I get increasingly aggregated because I’m being blocked, and tell him to move out of my way and leave me alone. He doesn’t, and protests by sitting on the pull out bed. I rip the comforter off of the actual bed and make a bed on the floor. He takes the blanket and pillows from under me, saying he won’t let me sleep on the floor. He continues to yell in my ear for me to get up, that he loves me, put everything behind us, while he keeps pulling the pillow that I reclaimed.

He has finally left me alone on the floor.

Leaving for the airport in 3 hours.

Relevant Comments:

OOP clarifies:

I was thinking about changing my flight, honestly. I am still trying to figure out the logistics of a break up, like how and when that could happen.

After OOP checks on other flights:

The flight we have is the earliest of the day. There are others, but no confirmed seats, only standby.

Commenter: Thats only going to escalate in future arguments. Get home safe please and never see this man again

OOP: It’s concerning because the type of rage that was ignited in me is a type that has only come out with past exes. Being cornered and my personal space violated is something I just cannot do… at all. I will say that I did try to push him out of the way, maybe I shouldn’t have, and raised my voice because I was afraid that his yelling would get us kicked out (our reservation has a quiet hours policy).

Get the hell out of where you are staying:

I was thinking about this. The AirBnB is under my name. I already know that I can’t really trust him with following the closing procedures, so I’m worried about incurring a fee if he leaves something incomplete. Also, if I get up now, I KNOW he will try to prevent me from leaving.

Commenter: You had every right to express your anger and frustration. Women are raised from girlhood to "be nice" and "get along" and "keep the peace".

The time for that is over. It's now "fuck this shit" time. Stop being nice. Be blunt. Be rude if you have to. You need to get him the hell away from you and you need to never believe his sniveling "I'm trying" bullshit again.

OOP: I told him “fuck you” earlier, when I told him that I felt like I was his mom and he said, “You didn’t have to help me look for the ring, I just asked for help”. He said I was rude and that he would never speak to me like that and that his friends tell him to leave me because of how rude I always am to him. He also called me rude because I left to the room and had the key and he had to get someone else to let him in.

Commenter: If you feel unsafe: Record a future conversation and send it to his mom.

OOP: I just thought of this…hours later.
Although, I do feel like it will not change anything. When he walked away from me the other day, I told her, and she told me to “just be happy with him and be in love and work things out”. She makes excuses for him constantly.

Commenter: When I read your first post, I was concerned. He sounded like a teenage gamer. But during the holiday he was very aggressive. Time to get out. Just block him on everything.

Why I talked about talking to his mom was bc. she has enabled his behavior for his entire life. She knows what he’s like.

OOP: Yeah. There was an instance recently when we went to a soccer game where he was aggressive. He had drinks, and some guy was bumping into him. I was sober and believed it wasn’t intentional (I witnessed the entire thing) but he swore the guy was bumping him on purpose. It was a crowded game and we were exiting, everyone was touching someone. He began to heavily body check the guy back with extreme force. He went to the bathroom and the guy came up to me and told me that my boyfriend is going to meet the wrong person one day. So embarrassing.
I should have audio taped, I feel stupid now. However, I feel like she would definitely make an excuse for him, nonetheless.

Commenter: Why did you start dating someone who couldn't be respectful even before you were dating?

OOP: He wasn’t like this before. The aggression is something I haven’t witnessed.

Commenter: I meant the showing up unexpectedly and "ignoring your wishes." What got you past the red flags and into this? I'm not trying to be mean. Just understand.

OOP: I guess the apologies and giving the benefit of the doubt (that so many people were upset that I didn’t give him in my initial post). I do like to give a first, and even second chance. I’m not perfect and don’t expect my partners to be. He apologized for the previous behavior and made certain strides in areas, but obviously not the ones that matter the most.

Commenter: Serious question. Is he an alcoholic? He dated one and on a mini vacation he acted just like this. A petulant child. Or is he just weaponized immaturity?

OOP: In the past, he has used alcohol to “self medicate” and deal with emotions. On one instance, his mom had to drive to his Apple location and found him drunk, asleep in a car outside a friend’s house when he promised her he’d be home soon. I’m not sure if the frequency or amount of his drinking would warrant a formal diagnosis of alcoholism, but both of his parents had issues with alcohol during his entire childhood.
His mom says that he always gets “like that” when he drinks, as well. We don’t drink together often as a couple, but when we do this has never happened before, we’ve just gone to clubs and had fun.

Mini Update: A few hours later

I’m at the airport now. When I left he was asleep. He hasn’t messaged me or read my texts and his location isn’t moving, so I’m assuming he’s still asleep. Boarding in 10 mins.

Several hours later:

I left for the airport, alone. When I left he was asleep. When I boarded the plane, he texted me saying that I should have woken him up so that he didn’t miss the flight. He said that I should have at least woken him up because apparently his phone was on silent.

One relevant comment:

He actually overslept because I left while he was sleeping to get to the airport. He missed the flight. I sent him a text explaining everything and did let him know to not come to my house or I will call the police.

Another few hours later:

Thank you! He is currently texting my mom long paragraphs trying to explain his behavior. I told her to ignore him.

OOP clarifies that she broke up with him:

I did it via text.

NEW UPDATE from OOP in the comments of this post:

Hey! Thanks for your support, we did break up. He is leaving in a week.

(to a different commenter): OP here. I did break up with him via text. I told him not to contact my parents or come to our home. He did both the next day, texting my mom and leaving flowers at my doorstep. He is continually telling me he will seek therapy and that I am the only woman for him who he still loves.

And a clarification:

OP here - I finished the clean-up tasks before I left and while he was asleep.

About ex's job:

OP here - He was fired twice for tardiness from walmart and a warehouse

Ex's mom:

His mother actually told him that he should move on and find someone who doesn’t fight with him all the time. I told her initially that his behavior was abusive and she agreed that he sounded like his dad, her ex husband (physically, sexually, verbally, emotionally abusive). I told her that I wouldn’t even consider him in the future unless he sought therapy and that I had concerns about him passing bootcamp. She told me that therapy makes your brain sick and that he should find someone who believes in him.

Again, do NOT comment on Original Posts or message OOP.

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

Previous ,

[New Update]: AITAH for being upset my husband is sharing a hotel room with another woman.

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Trigger Warnings: mentions of infidelity, emotional manipulation, neglect

RECAP

: July 16, 2024

My (36F) husband (42m) is currently in Las Vegas for a National bowling tournament. He is there with his mom and her friends/folks from their bowling league. He is an avid bowler - bowls in a Tuesday night league, often in state tournaments and sometimes in National tournaments. Typically I go with and sometimes bowl myself. This year, we decided I would not go, but stay home with our three boys (ages 4, 8, 10) due to heat and smoke in Vegas in July.

My husband and I have been married for 11 years. This is his second marriage. His first marriage failed because he walked in on his wife cheating on him with another man. I have never, not once, thought that he would ever be intimate with another woman while he was with me. He’s just not that type.

So, on to this trip. Typically when he goes on a trip without me (at least one a year given my job and time off requirements) he stays in a hotel room with his mom or our boys.

Three nights ago, I was on FaceTime with him while he was in his hotel room. It was really nice and he was talking about possibly taking a nap for lack of sleep. I asked if he had his room to himself (because that would have been awesome) and he said “oh no, (?) is sharing with me”. I asked him who that was, and he said something - I don’t remember - aside from “she”. I said “wait What?!?”

And then he went on to explain that he was supposed to share the room with his moms boyfriend, but plans changed and now he is sharing the room with another woman on the trip. He told me that I played cornhole with her last month at a get together. I reminded him who I had played cornhole with (him and a girl, but not one with the name he was giving me - I have no idea who this woman is) at which point he got very confused. He did not understand why I was upset or frustrated - so I dropped it because I did not want to deter from his time and his bowling. I know I should have asked how he would have felt if the roles were reversed - but I didn’t. Partly because I didn’t want to fight (we hardly ever fight) while the kids were up, and partly because I didn’t want to hear him chalk it up to my imagination. I have hardly slept since that night, and my dreams have been chock full of worst case scenarios, and still I have not really brought it up again.

There have been a few occasions in which he has talked about taking naps and how lame he is in Vegas. I have mentioned a few times - sort of sarcastically as a side, that he would be having more fun if he were sharing a room with me, or if I was there instead of his present company - but he has brushed it all aside. So here we are: he has spent the last three nights in a hotel room with a woman that is not me or his mother - AMITA for being upset?

Edited to get rid of some names - husband is coming home tonight and we will talk. I'm hoping its 82 year old grandma ;)

[UPDATE]

Ok, so I took some advice and grew "a backbone". I texted him a little while ago instead of waiting until he got home - he and our boys are leaving for another trip tomorrow morning (I could not get the time off of work) so I wanted to make sure we had the conversation fully before he left again.

Before I give the update, I wanted to make a couple of things clear:

I do trust my husband. He has never shown he would be the kind of person to cheat, and that is not what truly concerned me. Even though I did have some pretty unpleasant dreams. My issue was that he was not upfront and honest with me. If I had done the same thing, he would have lost his mind - understandably. This is why I started the original post with "he's just not that type".

We do generally have great communication - the issue here is that I like to have this kind of conversation face to face rather than over the phone. It's just not something I like to hash out while we are not in the same space. Obviously, in this situation, I should have made the exception, and have now done so.

Now, for the update:

I texted him today to tell him that this situation has been bothering me for the last three days - I had questions and we needed to have this conversation. I asked who the woman was, how old she was and why didn't he tell me about the situation before I found out by accident.

There was a mixup with the rooms, something about someone not going so people were shuffled. He was paired with a woman about my age. He said he didn't think it would be a big deal and didn't want to inconvenience everyone else on the trip. He also said he did not want to upset me, which is why he didn't right out tell me about it. He did tell me that I never had anything to worry about and he made sure they weren't in the room alone together aside from when they were sleeping. I know, I know - but I really do believe him on this.

I was honest with him and told him that if roles were reversed, out of respect for him, I would have called him right away to make sure he was ok with it. I told him that while I trust him implicitly, I should not have found out the way that I did. And he should not have blown off my concern. I told him that the lack of upfront communication felt suspicious, regardless of intention or what actually happened. As for not upsetting me, I told him I would have understood and not been upset if he had just been honest.

He has apologized profusely. I told him next time to just communicate - he is adamant there will not be a next time.

So, call me naive if you want, but I am dropping it at this point. He will be home this evening and I intend on having a nice evening with him before I don't see him again for another two weeks.

Thank you for the advice - I cried it out when I found out her age, but getting this off my chest has been very relieving.

: July 25, 2024

I am not handling this as well as I thought I was.

I had decided to let it go - I know he wasn’t doing anything with this other woman. You can disagree and call me crazy if you’d like - but I do know that.

However - as much as I have tried, I can’t get past the fact that he made the decision to do something he knew I wouldn’t be ok with, and not tell me about it. It all feels - just so messed up.

I have talked to a few of my co-workers (I don’t have really any friends that aren’t friends of his that I talk to on a regular basis - and there is no way I will talk to my family because that is a shit storm I can’t handle right now) and they are all shocked and more angry for me than I have let myself be (most of them know him, the kind of person he is and what ended his first marriage - he used to work at the same company).

We had less than 24 hours together before he, his mom and all three of my children took their trip to the other side of the United States. I have been sitting in my feels and will continue to do so until they get back - almost another week from now.

I was on the phone with them this evening before they went to bed, and one of the first things my husband said to me was: “I’m sharing a bed with a red head tonight”. And I almost came unglued before I realized he was talking about one of our boys (we have three sons). After a very long pause, I said “you better be talking about —-“ and I was so angry I don’t understand how he didn’t pick up on that.

Every conversation we have had has been short and to the point because I’m really just not interested in talking to him. I have been calling my oldest son, and talking with my boys instead. His mom hasn’t really said much to me - which makes me think he has said something to her. Which is fine of course - I really don’t care about that.

Bottom line is: I don’t know what to do. It is midnight at home, I tried to go to bed two hours ago and just could not stop sobbing - so I got up and let it go. It felt good to get it out but I know I need to talk to someone. I have support lines through work I can call, but won’t tonight - far too many drinks and I don’t want to bring that into it as well - but I will call tomorrow.

I know I should be upset and angry and not let it go. But I am afraid when I do talk to a professional they will say I’m blowing it out of proportion. I will still call, but I need to get my head straight first.

He is bicycling for seven days - over 400 miles - so as much as I want to tear him a new one right now (especially after his completely insensitive and clueless joke this evening) I have not. Because I want him home safe and sound.

Regardless of my feelings in this moment - the most important thing is that my children’s dad comes home safe so we can hash this out at least in the same city and not while he is 1,000 miles away. With his mom. And my children.

: August 8, 2024

Last Post:

Original Post:

I am sorry it has been a bit since I have updated - things have been....a lot. I am also sorry this post is very long....

My family came home a day early, so I took two extra days off of work to see them and figure things out with my husband. After we had unloaded and put everything away, we had dinner and watched a show. After putting the boys to bed, my husband and I went to our room. It was pretty clear he thought he was going to get lucky, because he was very confused when I turned the light on.

I told him that I had questions and I needed him to answer them. He was hesitant but agreed. I asked him who this woman is, how old and is she married. I still don't know who she is, but he did confirm she is YOUNGER than me, and not married. I then asked who made the decision he would be sharing a room with her. He said that his mom said it would be really great if they shared so she could spend the three nights with her boyfriend/not boyfriend. I asked him why he didn't tell me about it, he said he was just so tired and had had such a long day he didn’t think about it. (conflicting with his earlier: I didn't want to upset you...). He said that he didn't think I would ever question his intentions so why would he think he would have to tell me. I told him it wasn't about questioning his intentions or fidelity, it's that what they did was completely inappropriate and disrespectful to me and our marriage. And at the absolute very least, he should have sent me a quick text explaining the situation. I also told him that his mom is not always right.

He apologized profusely, said he shouldn't have put his mom before me, he didn't think it would be a thing because he would never try to hurt me and he thought I knew that. All the things. And we honestly talked it out and worked through things for a solid few hours. We came to a really good place and connected for the first time in a long while.

Then he went to work the next day - which hurt because I didn't really have the time to be calling in, I am severely behind at work - but I did anyway because I wanted to do the right thing for us and to take care of us. But because he just spent two weeks going all over the country doing something super fun and now he is super behind in his job, he couldn't afford to take anymore time off. So that really hurt - but I let it go because he really was behind and I at least had the boys that I got to catch up with.

That day my mom called to see what we were doing for my birthday which was two days away. I had honestly forgotten about it with everything, so I told her I didn't know and asked if my husband had called her. She said he had not. So I told her I would let her know when we came up with a plan.

That night, I asked him if he had a plan, and he said "oh I don't know, what do you want to do?". And that really really hurt, but I let it go because we have had so much going on. I told him it would be great if we had a BBQ and he invited people and got the groceries and he agreed. I specifically asked if he would call my mom. He did get some of the groceries, but not all of them. And he did surprise me with a cake. But that was it. I ended up inviting everyone last minute, having to apologize along the way, and had to go to the store twice to get the rest of the things we needed.

At the party, he started showing our friends the pictures from his trip - pictures I haven't even seen yet. I was so mad, upset, frustrated. He didn't catch on. So then it came time for gifts - his was a card game and a backrub. I felt like I was just slapped in the face. To be clear: I don't place a high value on gifts - if you get me something great, if you don't, that's fine.

But he didn't get me anything for Mother's Day, but I got him a whole slew of things for Father's day for his trip and an xbox game he wanted. (I also planned each of those days by myself). And he just went to the other side of the country, and all he thought to grab for me was a card game? I didn't want to fight in front of our friends, so I let it be. I didn't really expect more than that anyway - but it still hurt.

Then I went back to work and things were...meh. Anything he did irritated me. Anything his mom did irritated me. I was getting so frustrated and sad and angry and just not myself. Then I had a medical issue (something that pokes it's little head back up every five years like clock work, but I had been ignoring because of everything going on) come back and I went to our urgent care to take care of it. But I had to take care of all sorts of things first so that me going to the dr. didn't hamper my husbands day, so I was really irritated in the morning. It didn't help that his mom came over and I just can't handle her right now. It also didn't help that he told me that morning about all the plans he had come up with for our sons birthday in a few weeks.

I was mad at myself for being upset (i should be stoked my husband is thinking about our son and wanting to give him a great birthday party) but I was so deflated and sad and angry in that moment. But he had to go to work so I left it alone. So before I went, I sent him a text apologizing for being irritated. I told him that I'm not in a good place mentally or physically and am really struggling. He asked how he could help, and I responded that I really didn't know. And then I saw the dr. and he referred me to surgery. This will be the third time I have had surgery for this.

I was so frustrated and sad and hurt, I decided to just put it all out there. And since he can't seem to find the time to actually talk to me, I texted him a novel. Laying out everything that is on my mind. The trip, my birthday, him not taking time, my sons birthday, all of it. After an hour he had not responded, so I sent him another text saying that maybe he could just tell me I'm not crazy and we will get through this together, or something like that at least. He responded to that saying that he loves me and has lots to say but can't say it over the phone.

So then I went to work and did the things. I felt a little better he didn't discredit all of my frustrations so things were...ok. That night he called to tell me he loved me and was going to take the next day off to spend with me (it was also my day off). I was pretty darn stoked.

The next day I asked him what were the things he wanted to say. And he said he didn't want to say it in front of the kids. So then that I night I asked him again, and he said that we have been having such a great day, he didn't want to ruin it and me get all emotional so he wasn't going to say it then. I felt like I had just been punched in the gut. So wait - you have been so nice since I texted you, but now I'm going to be sad and upset? What is going on?

It is now the next day, and I just asked him again. He completely blew me off and went to town to pick up our son from camp.

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do. I can only ask him to talk to me so many times. He doesn't share his thoughts or emotions often, but I would think he would do it now right? I don't know what to do.

Relevant Comments

cthulularoo: holy shit, you're not even an afterthought to this guy. You're don't have any importance in his life. You're just there. He'll just tell you stuff to get you off his case and then just keep ignoring you.

OOP: That is definitely how I feel

OOP responds to multiple comments on seeking for a professional counselor to help navigate the next steps and find a thing to do that helps OOP feel happy

OOP: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for your kind and understanding reply! I have made a few calls with no responses yet and quite a few say they are not taking new clients. Keeping my fingers crossed though - I do agree, I need an outside perspective other than Reddit

Thank you! I have used our system, but I still have to call. They helped narrow it down but I have to make an appointment- I get 6 free sessions which is great. I just need someone to call me back 😞

Thank you for the advice - I will try. I did get in two chapters of the book I’m reading this week, and have taken extra time with my boys. I needed that ❤️

Ladyvett: I think that woman on the trip was more important than he’s letting on. His mother would not be welcome in my house again until she apologizes to my face. No more trips alone for any reason for a very long time. He needs to have consequences and you’re letting him coast. He’s trying to wait you out. Updateme

Dachshundmom5: I don't know why you just keep "letting things go" and deluding yourself that you're in a good place.

Your husband was in a hotel room with a younger woman for days. He gaslit you that it's no big deal and acting like you're the crazy one for thinking it's a problem. In what world are things okay after that? How much of a doormat has he made you that 1 conversation blows that over?

Your MIL set him up to cheat on you. In no world is him sharing a room with a younger single woman appropriate. He knows that. She knows that. If you think he's a good boy, I don't know what kind of blinders you have on or kool aid you're drinking, but stop.

He blew off your birthday. He couldn't even muster going to the grocery store. Let alone sending some texts.

He was away from you for 2 weeks and couldn't even bring you some postcards from along the way? My son was on a school trip for 4 days. He brought me all kinds of little things because he was in a gas station and saw this pretty postcard I would like. Or at this gift shop and thought that key chain was something I would like. So, your husband is less considerate than a teenager on a school trip with all his teenage buddies?

He gives you bullshit after bullshit and just pretends things are fine.

You lay it all out there via text and again, he blows you off. Gives you some love bombing in the form of family time, and expects to sweep it under the rug. He's hoping to wait you put before you find out what he actually did in that hotel room. Or how many times he's met that woman before. Or just to make sure he can feed you bullshit after betraying your marriage with his mom's help and you'll just ignore it.

At some point, you have to acknowledge you have a shitty husband and a VERY unhealthy marriage. How many ways does he have to show you you're not a priority, he doesn't respect you, and he could not care less about your feelings before you believe him?

----NEW UPDATE----

: August 19, 2024

I apologize for the late update - my health took a pretty drastic turn for the worse for a minute. But no worries, all is good now. And I had a really good talk with my Dr. about putting myself first and she is getting me in touch with a counselor.

Now, for the update: it's barely an update, and for that I'm sorry.

When I finally did get him to tell me what he wanted to say (he ended up saying it in front of the boys anyway) he only brought up two things I had talked about in the novel I had sent him. The first was that I was going to look for a counselor. He said he loved that idea and that it really helped him when he was talking to one.

Then he brought up that I had mentioned how much weight I have gained since the birth of our last child. He said that he still finds me crazy attractive, as should be evident by the fact that he still shows up in bed. Then he started talking about what I shouldn't be doing if I wanted to lose weight, and apologizing for the fact that he and the boys have ridiculous metabolisms and don't have to worry about it. I asked him to stop trying to give me weight loss advice - that wasn't the point of me telling him.

I asked if there was anything else he wanted to say and he said no. Just those two things.

So at this point this is where I am at:

My husband did not cheat on me - I do know this is true

I am still not in a good place because of so many things happening at once - so I am seeking help

Thanks for the advice and support from most of you. But this is my last post on this. I won't be able to actually work on my marriage reading some of these responses.

Comments

AnonThrowAway072023: Wow Well it is your life not anyone else's. His idea of treating you with love and respect and honor, and make up for his MANY missteps is to try and make you less fat.

But don't worry, he still wants to fuck you as is.

I really hope for the best for you. Like most following your story I think he treats you like shit and beyond taking you for granted. He won't change because he feels he isn't behaving wrong.

You deserve a better happier life, I'm so so sorry.

Impressive-Arm4668: "should be evident by the fact that he still shows up in bed" is a WILD statement to me 💀

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I have been using to browse reddit as it had quite a nice dark mode. This afternoon the URL started giving me the redesign of reddit that makes it look like budget facebook with its foul design. It's particularly heinous on an UW monitor as the center part of the site no longer scales horizontally and is set at a capped width with only the 2 columns expanding in width when the window is extended horizontally. What's more is that I use an OLED monitor so the "dark theme" which uses off-black colors will inevitably cause burn-in so I would prefer to go back to my proper dark theme in the earlier version.

I am using firefox, is there any way to return to the older or am I sore outta luck?

EDIT: The solution is posted by in the comments below:

I can verify that this solution worked for me as of today, 08/26/2024.

The newest redesign is actually awful and triggers migraines, so I've been using because that actually worked. But not it just goes to horrible vomit of the redesign. I legit can't/won't use reddit like this, what the actual eff is going on, and is there anyway to undo it or should I just go ahead and delete my account now?

EDIT: So they seem to be going through and just locking posts about this, so that seems to portray their thoughts on the matter.

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

AIO? My boyfriend hasn't come home since Friday, it's now Sunday.

Thanks to + + + for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: body injuries, drug poisoning

: August 18, 2024

My (24F) boyfriend (27M) left for a festival around 12:00 on Friday, he told me he loved me and that he'd see me that night since he had to work on Saturday and then he'd go back to the festival on Sunday morning. I told him to have fun, be safe and that I'd see him that night.

I went to work like normal and didn't hear anything from him all day (which didn't bother me since he's at a festival, probably had bad service and didn't want to spoil his fun by being on his phone). I got home after work around 00:00 and still hadn't heard anything. I was hungry and decided to have some food delivered so I figured I'd call him and ask if he wanted something for when he got home. It went straight to voicemail twice. I decided to check his location to see if maybe he was still stuck in the parking lot and therefore would have horrible service as well, which was the case. Didn't think much more off it, ordered my food, ate, and went to bed. Decided to check his location once more and saw the bus was just pulling out of the parking area and on the road.

When I woke up, he wasn't next to me. I immediately checked my phone but didn't have any missed messages or calls. This started to slightly worry me, so I looked at his location again and it showed him in a hotel somewhere. I figured he must have missed the last train home and that I'd see him soon. I went on about my day, deep cleaning the house, doing some laundry, etc, and didn't think about it anymore. Then around 16:00 I received a call from his boss asking if I knew where he was since he didn't show up for his shift at 15:00 and they couldn't reach him. I hadn't even noticed the time.

I called, facetimed, texted and messaged him but got no response. Then around 17:00 I got one lousy message that he had hurt his ankle and lost his wallet. I asked what happened, if he was okay, why he didn't come home, why he didn't let me know, he was going to a hotel, why he was ignoring his boss and I, when he was coming home and who he was with (none of our friends went to the festival, he went alone). It's now Sunday and he still hasn't responded nor come home. He turned his location settings off yesterday around the same time he sent that text to me.

I have this really bad feeling like something is off. This is very out of character for him. We've been together for 6 years and he's never done anything remotely like this. I'm worried, I'm angry, and I feel like he's hiding something. I know he didn't plan on going to a hotel, he didn't bring a change of clothes or packed a bag. He just went for a day, planning to come back that night. AIO for having this bad feeling like something is very wrong?

Relevant Comments

OOP on the possibility if her boyfriend is cheating. Might have strange stuff going on to people his age

OOP: Cheating hasn't even crossed my mind, if he were cheating wouldn't he try to hide it and just reply? He knows I'm super chill about everything and a simple "hey babe, staying at a hotel tonight. Had an amazing day, love you and talk to you tomorrow" would be more than enough for me to not worry

That's exactly how I feel. Also if he were cheating, wouldn't he try to hide it instead of acting like this? It makes no sense. I just spoke to the police but since he's an adult and he's technically responded once, I have to assume he's still having fun at the festival and should call back if he still hasn't come home Tuesday morning

Does OOP think it was really her boyfriend texting her. Suggesting OOP to call the police to document the suspicious activity from his phone

OOP: I'm not sure, I just looked back at the message and it's so plain and simple it technically could've been anyone. Also if someone else has access to his phone they can easily look at texts he's sent and copy his mannerisms

Is the boyfriend’s phone likely to be stolen and has no way to get help. Does the boyfriend do some drugs?

OOP: The stolen phone definitely crossed my mind too. When I finally received that message on Saturday I had already mentioned his location being at that hotel, and afterwards the location immediately got turned off. So it could be that the person who stole it didn't realize he always shares his location with a group of 30+ people. However that wouldn't explain why he hasn't come home yet.

Like others said, it could be his phone was stolen and it was never him at the hotel. If he still had his phone and it was him, he could've used Apple Pay for the payment. Which still doesn't seem right because he would've let me know

He does sometimes, but never when he knows he has to work the next day and he never accepts drugs from strangers. He did buy some to take with him on Sunday since he's off work Monday and Tuesday but he left it at home. He knew he wasn't going to use it on Friday and that he'd be home to take it with him on Sunday

: August 19, 2024

UPDATE - WE FOUND HIM!

Dear redditors,

Let me start off with thanking each and every one of you for your concern, kind words and advice. I didn't expect this to get as big as it did, I'm a long time lurker on this sub on my main profile and it's not often I see this kind of response. When I posted yesterday morning I was beside myself with worry, and I had already taken quite a few steps to find him which included calling friends and family. Many people told me I was probably overreacting and he was just having fun. But it didn't sit right with me, so when coming to reddit I was just hoping for a few people telling me I hadn't lost my mind.

When calling the hotel, they initially informed me that they couldn't give any information about guests due to the privacy law in my country. The police weren't of any help either, telling me that I should contact them again if he hadn't come home by Tuesday morning. I spoke to the management of the festival, who could confirm he scanned his ticket at the entrance on Friday. However they work with wristbands so there was no way for them to check if my boyfriend also came on Saturday and Sunday. With the hotel, the festival and the police being quite dismissive, I turned to reddit.

I didn't include all these details in my original post, since I didn't want the post to get too long and I figured I could just add information by responding to all of you. That worked fine until we got to 100+ reactions, and then 1000+ and even 5000+ which is absolutely crazy to me. Honestly I can't thank you enough, your responses really helped me through this and confirmed that the chance of something bad having happened was way bigger than him just having fun.

After calling the hotel again and pleading with the manager of the hotel for quite a while, they were able to inform me that there hadn't been a reservation under his name. I sent his picture to the hotel and they looked at the security footage around the time his phone showed up there, though they couldn't inform us of the results they did promise to keep the footage on file in case the police would need it later on. I contacted the police again with this information, and while they were still hesitant to investigate further they did give the hotel a call to request the footage of that Friday night. A little while later they called me back saying that my boyfriend hadn't been on any of the cameras all weekend, therefore they could rule out he had even been there at all.

Because his phone clearly showed his location being there and I had screenshots to prove it, the police realized that something indeed wasn't right and promised me they'd look into it straight away. Me and one of our mutual friends decided to start driving towards the festival site, which was about a 4 hour drive. We knew we wouldn't be able to get in since we didn't have tickets, and even if we did there'd be no way to find him in a crowd of over 65.000 people, but at least we'd be close by if we received any news and we could ask around to see if anyone recognized his picture.

Before we reached the site, I received another call from the police. My boyfriend had been in the hospital since Saturday morning, he had been found in the ditches of the parking lot of the festival around 3am together with a few other people who had also been to the festival. All of them severely beaten up and without any of their belongings. The hospital found traces of the same drug in each of their systems, which leads the police to suspect they have been preyed upon and drugged by groups of people searching for easy targets - people who were alone. Apparently it usually takes 1 to 2 days to identify an unconscious person without any form of ID on them which is why I didn't hear anything earlier. The police are investigating further and will let us know when they found who's responsible. We already confirmed that we want to press charges.

My boyfriend is okay now, and he's expected to make a smooth recovery. He broke his collarbone and his wrist, is covered in bruises and cuts and has a light concussion. He came by very late Sunday night, unfortunately (or luckily) he doesn't have any memories of the incident or the events that happened right before. I'm feeling so relieved and happy that we found him and he's safe, yet so incredibly angry at the people who did this to him and the others that had been found. You always hear horror stories about things like this, but you never expect it can happen to you.

I'm sorry I didn't update any earlier, but as you might be able to imagine it wasn't the first thing on my mind these last 24 hours. I'll try to answer a few more questions today should any of you still have some, and then I'll leave this be. Dear redditors, thank you again for everything from the bottom of my heart.

OOP Answers questions in this comment

DuoCultellus:

None of this makes any sense, I’m calling bullshit.

1. Zero reason for OP not to have called hospitals beforehand.

2. No way for the “muggers” to know the boyfriend’s passcode to text OP back.

3. The hospital would have DEFINITELY reported this “mass mugging” to the police, & would obviously connect the two when OP supposedly called to report the BF missing.

4. Unless the boyfriend was in a FUCKING COMA, why wouldn’t they ask the hospital to call someone for him?

5. Why do the police need to investigate who’s responsible when they already have the footage & timeline from the hotel?

6. If they were all drugged up by the same substance, then why did they need to be beaten up?

7. Where is the fucking article about this happening? This is insane, unhinged, & makes no sense. OP needs to take another creative writing workshop & do better.

OOP: Hi there, thanks for being so thorough in voicing your concern with the truthfulness of these events. I'm not here trying to prove anything to anyone, but I expect more people will have questions like yours.

1. Where I live, there's no point in calling hospitals. I'm listed as his emergency contact so if they know he's there, they'll let me know. If they don't know the identity of someone in the hospital, they can't give any information due to the privacy laws and everything has to go through the police.

2. Not sure how they got his passcode, could've hacked the phone or could've seen him typing it in.

3. The hospital would've definitely reported this to the police immediately. But it's possible I called the police already before they received the notification from the hospital. It's also possible I called the jurisdiction that wasn't yet aware of the incident since every city has their own police station.

4. My boyfriend wasn't in a coma, but they kept him sedated due to his injuries. He came by on Sunday night, but by that point we'd luckily already found him.

5. Simply having footage of the hotel isn't enough to identify a group of people. They can piece together a timeline based on our stories, but that's not a completed investigation. I may have worded it wrong though, English isn't my first language.

6. Your guess on that is as good as mine.

7. In my country, things like this mostly get swept under the rug. Unless an actual death occurred, no articles will be published. There are of course stories here and there that circulate online, of people seeing drinks getting spiked and people letting others know there's thefts going on.

Hope this answers some of your questions, let me know if you have any more!

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

Não sei se já fizeram esse jogo aqui no sub, mas basicamente, você fala uma palavra que termina com uma sílaba, aí outra pessoa fala outra palavra, mas que começa com a última sílaba da palavra anterior e assim por diante. Vamos jogar?

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Short

- 12th August 2024

- 24th August 2024

WIBTA for leaving my 13y relationship because my bf hasent proposed yet?

I (28f) just had my birthday, my (27m) bf gifted me a beautiful ring but specified it wasent a "real" engagement ring. When i told him he could propose with it he became weird and silent. i have been trying to talk to him about marriage since we both turn 25 but at the time it was "im too young", at 26 i ask again and it was " we dont have the money". i always told him he could propose with a ring pop and i would be the happiest person in the world and that i didnt want a big wedding just close friends and family.. but he would always just laugh awkwardly or make jokes.

Now im 28 we both have good jobs, are happy (i think?) so idk whats up. when i ask him he said and i quote "everyone that is married just end up divorce so whats the point". at this point i feel like im a place holder and he is waiting for someone better to come along. when i discuss that he always say thats not true but that dosent reassure me.

We even started looking at house and is searious about that but now idk anymore... i love him more than anything and dont want to lose him but marriage is important to me and seeing everyone around me moving on with their live like marriage,buying houses, having kids (even thought i dont want kids) is making me really bitter.

i suggested couple counseling which he refuses saying its a waste of money. i also refuse to give an ultimatum. he keeps saying it will happen but i dont know anymore... this man is my world but i dont know if i can sacrifice marriage without feeling resentment (it has already started i believe)... so reddit wibta for leaving? i dont know what to do anymore.

EDIT TO ADD: i feel like i worded this wrong. when he gifted me the ring i joke about it being an engagement ring. he said this wasent a real engagement ring and then got weird and silent. its not a shut up ring i have been looking at this ring for years and he promise he would get it for me one day. i feel he listened to me and got me the perfect birthday gift. NOT A SHUT UP RING.

Comments

BeginningAd9070

No. It would actually be healthier to leave a relationship that started when you were in high school. Who needs 13 years to figure out if they want to marry you? You’re not kids anymore. I hate to break it to you, but you’re just a comfortable placeholder until he finds the woman he wants to marry. You’re over here doing all the wife stuff with no assurances in return. And on top of that, you’ve resorted to begging a man to want you. Stop that. Get your life together, get some therapy to find out why you let this go on this long, and move on. Find an actual man who isn’t some boy you had to raise.

OOP: damn... thanks for that i will be restarting therapy..

thatgoaliesmom

I’m 54. I’ve been with my husband since HS, 37 years together, and we just had our 30 year wedding anniversary a 2 months ago. We were best friends all through HS, and he confessed his feelings on graduation night. We’ve been together since.

That first summer, we spent it having fun, making memories and falling in love. He also spent it telling me what he saw for our future, what our life could look like. By September I was sold, and he proposed on that Christmas Eve, we were 18YO. We agreed that we’d buy a house and launch our business before we got married. Our business was thriving 6 years later, and then we closed on our first home before that year was through, and got married 6 months after that, right at the 7 year mark. We were 24YO.

If he wanted to he would. He wouldn’t be able to stop himself. He’d move mountains to make it happen, and he’d certainly be making plans. I’m sorry OP. NTA.

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 12 days later

just wanted to pop back and give an update. After reading everyone (yes even the mean one) comments i did some soul searching on why i wanted to get married in the first place. My therapist wasn't available for another month to see me (yay health care) so i talked to some friends, reddit users and did some thinking.

I came to the conclusion that i wanted to get married due to a lot of peer pressure from society and also my upbringing of the "acceptable life" (got to university, carreer, get married, buy a house and have kids). But one thing i did realise that i wanted out of marriage was that protection that if something happen to either of us we would be eachother next of kin.

So i talked to my bf about everything. We had a long emotional discussion on our wants and future. He told me while he did want a future with me and eventually get married he wanted us to be financially stable and have our place before. He did talk about his parents divorce and how traumatic that was for him and how even if he knows im not vindictive like his mother he is terrified of ending up like his father. So we compromised. To appease my anxiety, we will be making eachother beneficiaries and have eachother be POA in case something were to happen until we get officiy married.

Now on to my ring, I ask him if this was a shut up ring because a lot of you fed into my fears that it was and he said and i quote "in a way yeah because you been talking about it non stop since you saw it all those years ago and i was tired of hearing about it but also i was happy to be able to finally get it for you ".

So y'all were right in a certain way 😂 (edit: i never ask for an engagement ring i was looking at a birthstone ring... the ring he got me was my birthstone for my birthday... its not a shut up ring for marriage its a you keep talking about that specific ring so i got it for you to make you happy because i love you but also to give my ears a break ring)

So no i will not be leaving him. I dont care if we got together "too young" and didnt experience other relationships, i love him and he loves me. I dont need to sleep with 10 other people to know what love is and what i want. We went throught hell and back together ( parents divorce, family deaths, losing fur babies,sickness, life altering disability, mental health etc.). He is the perfect partner in every sense for me and I hope i am for him.

EDIT: cant believe i have to spell this out but i dont care about marriage. I never did in the first place. I only started bringing it up because family and society put it in my head that it was a necessity for a successful life. Spoiler they were wrong. Being happy with the person you love is whats successful. I got what i wanted which was protection in case something happen as even though were common law (surprise im not USA) your not next of kin unless we get it in writting and notorized.

Comments

GorditaPollo

He let you win a small battle so you wouldn’t notice you lost the war. You’re missing out on finding someone who’s excited and delighted by you. And honestly, this man you’re with is just some guy. Not someone worth making compromises for and shaving off your corners to be more palatable- to what end? If you keep chipping away at yourself, you’ll wake up one day completely mystified about how your life got so small and grey.

skym926

Yep… she’ll build with him and then once he’s in the financial position he wants to be him, he’ll get married to someone else a few months after meeting them. A tale as old as time.

labdogs42

Never buy the house first. Don’t do it.

boneykneecaps

Yes. My brother learned this the hard way. Bought a place with his gf and best friend. I don't need to tell anyone what happened a couple years in. Those two better hope I never see them again.

OOP: il say yes whether its tomorrow, next week , 2 years or 20 years from now. I love this man. IDC about marriage as long as were happy together and love eachother. would a wedding be cute yes but is it necessary? after a lot of soul searching no its not.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP. Please remember to be civil in the comments