I am not OOP, OOP is

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Mood Spoilers: Jealousy but a Happy ending!

on 7/8/24

AITAH if I “accidentally” trip and spill wine all over this girl who is wearing white to my sister’s wedding?

Ok this is happening right now. I'm in the wedding venue watching my sister get married. So expect updates maybe??

I F(17) am at my sister's wedding right now (I'm so happy for her!). Here's the problem, this random guest (who I don't know) is wearing the very beautiful very obvious wedding gown to what's supposed to be my sister's special day.

Back when I was younger and she was a teen she told me that if she got married and someone wore white to my wedding she wanted me to spill a gallon of syrup and glitter on her as payback. Now the only unfortunate part is that I have no access to syrup or or glitter. You might be thinking wine because that's the most commonly used weapon in these situations but they won't let me near the alcohol table. The only drinks available to the 5 children hear is sprite, orange juice, and water (great selection guys...). Now I would do orange juice but there is very little left and my cousin would murder me.

So what to do? I'm pretty sure everyone here has noticed the white dress and is a tad confused by it. My whole family and the grooms side aren't big tradition followers so you basically could wear anything to this wedding and not be directly called out. However, this seems very deliberate and I know my sister has noticed it because how the hell would you not?!

So AITAH? Honestly just tell me what to do cuz idk. I might go talk to her; I love talking to crazy people!

(Also don't come at me for making an AITAH post about something so stupid cuz I find this hilarious).

Relevant Comments

"Ask your sister if she approved this. If not, loudly ask the guest why she’s wearing white to someone else’s wedding.

BUT CHECK WITH YOUR SISTER FIRST.

NTA."

"Hard to say as it depends on your sister’s wishes and who this woman is to her, you may be royally screwing up if you do this and you just don’t realise.

If I were you, I would talk to your sister and say you either want to speak to this woman or potentially spill wine on her and see what she says.

IMO before wine, I would ask her why she’s wearing a wedding dress to another woman’s wedding. If she’s rude about it, take it from there. First though, speak to your sister if you’re able to."

"YWBTA, check with your sister if she will be OK with your plan. Also you might want to check the girl's nationality, there are cultures who do not abhor guests wearing white/off white dress. In fact, it is OK in other parts of the world to wear something white or off white/tan/neutral colors rather than wear black to weddings. In the Philippines for example, the traditional formal dresses for men and women are off white/white color, the materials are fiber that are undyed. so normally white/off white/beige worn by guests/families/friends' dresses abound."

OOP had a mix of YTA and NTA so we will say ESH

UPDATE, Few Hours later

So I want to make it clear that I am very much a gentle giant and would never do something so bold. Me and my cousin thought this would be pretty funny to see what other people thought. Now I finally spoke to my sister and her husband. My sister actually didn't notice her and got pretty upset when I pointed it out (I feel kind of bad about that). I asked her if she knew the person to which she said no then ask her husband if he did and he said it was his cousin's plus one and gf. I asked her if she wanted me to do anything about it and she told me yes but also to not make a big scene out of it. So one things I'm pretty good at is info-fishing! I sidled my way up to the guest with my little cousin (not the same cousin as before) and started some small talk with the guests around her which eventually lead to her being brought into the conversation. Now my little cousin is blunt and childish (which is why I brought his amazing self along) and asks why she has the white dress on (as planned). She stutters a little then mumbles something about her being color blind.

Ok! Pause. What? I've heard of color blindness where you can't see anything but black or white and if ima be honest I kind of just walked away after that. Like, how do I respond to that? cuz if she's actually color blind and thought the dress was a light shade of some color or other than I'm the AH and she doesn't deserve me bitching about it, yk? Then again, if she's lying that's freaking crazy. I basically just told my sister that and gave me the most 'wtf?' Face she could manage. She decided not to worry about it and just have a happy wedding! I'm happy for her and honestly just happy she's such a great person and so much better than me lol.

Relevant comment

"You’re an awesome sibling for looking out for your sisters wedding. And no you are not TA for calling out stupid behavior. I highly doubt she’s wearing a white dress by accident. And if she really is color blind how did your cousin who brought this girl not think to say “honey I know you’re color blind but maybe let’s NOT wear white to the one type of event your not supposed to wear it at.” Honestly I think the color blind thing was just an excuse cause she didn’t expect to be called out especially by kids. Then when she was she was so embarrassed that she left. Good for you OP you handled it well."

UPDATE 2, About 5-7 hours after Update 1

So me an my cousin have decided that we were the AH and we accept it. It would have been worse if we acted on the joke however. The woman has left and her Bf is no where to be seen so all is well. Me and my cousin brought the post up to my sister (who was a bit tipsy so I'll ask again later) and asked if we should delete since it was unkind of us to do it at her wedding. She laughed at us after reading the post (and a few comments) and told us we were fine and also hilarious. I'm glad my sister is happy and when my sister is happy I'm happy! Let's just celebrate that my sister got married!!! WOOOO GO SISTER!!! Sure I'm just a 17 y/o and acting childish but you bet your ass that I'll live out my last year of childhood acting like the biggest toddler of all.

I love you sis ❤️

Relevant Comments

"YTA. This whole thing is so childish and you created so much drama that didn’t need to be created. Your sister has no idea, the gf and bf left because you made her feel uncomfortable, you assumed it was in ill intended and it was due to something she couldn’t control.

Childish behaviour. Grow up."

"I am glad that you chose not to ruin the dress. When I was young, poor college student, I only had a white dress. I was asked to sit at the entrance table to ask people to sign their wedding book. I did dye my dress a light green.

In many cultures, people do not wear white dresses for the bride. My Indian friend had a very colorful dress and changed into her white “western culture” dress later in the evening.

Filipinos wear white or beige barongs or dresses for all kinds of dress up events.

If it was clearly an attempt to upstage the bride, like a mother in law wearing a full white gown, then I would not feel too guilty causing some trouble. Ex wives or girlfriends, definitely NO!

My mom wore a beige skirt and top to my wedding because it was the only thing that fit her well and fancy enough for a wedding. I did not care."

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

Originally posted in

1 Update - Medium

- July 8, 2024

- July 15, 2024 (1 week after Original Post)

Trigger warning - Death by drunk driver

...

Original Post - July 8, 2024

My (32M) marriage with my wife, Mary, (31F) feels like it's unravelling at the seams. I just have so much anger, disgust and resentment inside me to the point that regular every day living feels impossible. I want to scream all the time and it feels like I'll never be my carefree self again. Yes, I'm in therapy and have told my wife I really think we need couples/marriage counselling too, she's thinking about it. This is long, so if you can be bothered to read it, buckle in. TLDR below.

My best friend, Ben, was my ride or die. We met when we were 5 and were inseparable since then. We were there for each other during all of life's big moments and turns. His place turned into my second home when my parents went through their explosive divorce when I was 11. I was there for him and mourned with him when his younger sister died of cancer when we were 15 and she was only 10. You name it, we worked through it. He was the only one to not freak out on me when I decided to drop out of college to pursue a trade. There was never a moment where either of us were worried about the other's reaction, or what they'd say or think. Ben was the type of guy people knew could make anyone feel better, regardless of the situation. He always knew what to say and what you needed, even if you didn't agree at the time. He's the best person I've ever had the privilege of meeting and the world was a better place with him in it. (I unfortunately know I have to put this in here, no, Ben and I were never in love with each other like that. We were really close best friends/ brothers.)

Ben met his wife, Sally, in his junior year of college and I knew Sally was going to be the greatest love of his life. She was so open, warm and adventurous. Like Ben, she had a smile that lit up the whole room and effortlessly made everyone feel like her best friend. Everyone, including myself, looked at them as that "perfect couple" everyone knows. They got married two years into dating. Ben always told me how excited he was to love, hold and protect her forever. All the ways he wanted to make her happy. He showed his love for her every day in his words and actions. I was so happy for him, because I thought she did the same. I helped her plan his surprise 30th birthday party, where he was reduced to tears upon seeing she spent hours making him a Mario Kart Rainbow Road themed cake. They talked about children, holidays, rescuing animals, growing their own fruits and vegetables. Sally quickly became a sister to me and became very close friends with Mary. The four of us went on countless holidays, helped each other through life's challenges, went on at least one double date a fortnight, etc.

About five months ago, I woke up to five missed calls from Ben between the hours of 11pm to 2am the night before and I just had a feeling something really bad had happened. I called out of work and drove straight to his place. Sally had been cheating on Ben pretty much their entire relationship. When I confronted her and asked how she could do such a thing, and why get married in the first place if you're going to cheat the entire time, she broke down and told me it was more like living a double life. Sally was/is gay. She'd known since she was a teenager but never felt like she could come out because of conservative family. She met Ben and fell in love with him, and counted on her feelings for women just somehow "going away". She said she genuinely loved him as a person and life partner, but that "secret" part of her only grew stronger and louder over the years. She casually dated and hooked up with women, telling Ben she was hanging out with friends from her hobbies/friend groups. He only found out the night he'd called me because one of the women Sally was seeing wanted to take their relationship further and freaked out when Sally broke up with her instead. This woman showed up to their house late at night and told Ben everything.

Ben was absolutely shattered. He gave everything to Sally and loved her wholeheartedly and it wasn't even with the real her. She claimed to love him, but I can't help but think she was using him. She lied to everyone, let us think she loved and adored Ben as much as he loved her. All so that she could have her cake and eat it too. I was quick to tell Ben he deserved better, but Sally apparently begged on her hands and knees. Told him she really did love him, and that she was willing to do anything to make it better. She would never talk to any women ever again, they could move somewhere new and start fresh, all that bullcrap. Ben fell into a deep depression because he realised he never knew the real Sally, but he did really love her. He agonised over what to do until he got hit by a drunk driver while out on a late night walk two months ago.

I won't go into how it felt to lose him, I'm sure you can all imagine. It was made worse by having that bitch crying at his funeral, crying like he really was the love of his life and she was the perfect wife. It was the first time in my life I ever wanted to hit someone. I couldn't believe the audacity she had to show her face around Ben's loved ones, especially the ones that knew the truth. Mary knows how I feel about Sally and I thought she understood that Sally is dead to us. I know I can't dictate who a person should/can be friends with, but if I had a mutual friend with Mary that shattered her as much as Sally did to me, I'd cut them off with no question. I can't be friends with someone who hurts my loved ones like that. About two weeks ago, I came home from a work trip early and Mary was consoling Sally in our living room. I lost my shit. Asked them if they were having an affair, screamed to the point of crying. I asked Mary how she could have Sally in the living room where we have a photo of Ben hanging on the wall. Sally tried to apologise to me and here's where I was probably TAH.

I looked at her crying face and it was like a switch flipped in me. I immediately stopped crying and yelling and I just looked at her and said, "The biggest injustice here is that you're here while Ben is in the ground. If the world were fair, I'd be able to press a button to swap your places and I'd do that in a heartbeat. You might be able to trick my wife into feeling sorry for you but you're dead to me. I see what you really are and you're trash. You tricked Ben into falling in love with you so you could pretend to be mommy and daddy's good little straight girl while fucking whoever you wanted on the side. I can't even fathom or quantify your selfishness. If I woke up tomorrow and I was you, I'd never get out of bed every again."

Mary says I was cruel, and I guess I was, but it was my truth. Apparently, Sally hasn't left her house since that confrontation. It's to the point she's lost her job because of not going into the office. The thing is, I don't feel bad about it. I think it's the least she could do and I hope she continues to not exist in my world. Mary knows I feel this way, but still goes to Sally's place to bring her meals and help clean up the place. It honestly disgusts me. We've had many explosive arguments about it, and for the first time in our marriage, I feel like we might not recover from this. We both feel like we've seen a new side to each other and we don't know if we'll be able to move past it. I write this here because we've kept this situation to ourselves. Other people in our lives know something is up, but have been too afraid to ask. I guess I want other peoples' opinions on my thoughts and feelings on this matter, even if everyone thinks I'm the asshole.

TLDR: Best friend's wife was cheating on him their whole relationship and married him to hide being gay, he died and I hate his wife to bits. I was brutally honest with her about how I feel about her when I found out my wife is still friends with her and brings her to our house when I'm not home. Wife and I are arguing because friend's wife is now depressed from my reaction to her being at our house. Wife thinks I'm being cruel, I'm disgusted my wife can be friends with trash like that.

Relevant Comments

SignificantOrange139

Mmm. I'm sorry for your loss(es).

That said - I think that if you can't accept your wife is allowed to have different feelings about this than you. You might as well just walk away.

I don't think you're being fair to say she never loved him. Love, like life, is complex and messy sometimes. And tbh, I think you're wrong to say she doesn't deserve to grieve him.

I don't think she should have brought her into your home. That is shared ground and she needs to respect your feelings there.

But in your anger - you were distrustful of your wife, and you showed her a level of cruelty that she did not know you were capable of. That is hard to reconcile.

Whatfforreal replies:

She doesn’t get to grieve with his his best friends wife. In his house.

..

NTA,

I understand the hurt and at the same time the perceived disrespect of her going to the funeral and acting like a Good grieving wife.

With that being said, she probably is grieving. Is she a piece of shit for cheating of course but it doesn't mean she can't get hurt from losing someone.

I know I can't imagine someone cheating on me and then saying that they loved me and missed me. And unfortunately you now are seeing your wife console and be friends with someone who did just that. And it's making you second guess if she condones it or condemns it, and it's making you think that if she'll support someone who did it, will she do it?

And yet that's a fair question to ask, but the best place to ask that is in counseling.

Do I agree with you, yeah part of me does. Your wife seems to care more about the cheaters emotions than your own. And seems to be there for her more than she is for you. And that I fully understand would make my blood boil.

But if you aren't going to talk to her about it and go to counseling about it just call it. It's over if you can't talk just get a divorce.

...

Update - July 15, 2024 (1 week after Original Post)

Thank you to everyone who commented on my first post a week ago. It's been such a messed up situation and my feelings have been all over the place so it really lifted a weight off my shoulders to see people could understand why I felt and acted the way I did. A further thank you to people who reached out to me and shared their experiences losing a best friend. I'm sorry you guys lost your best friends too, it's like a sledgehammer to the chest that won't dislodge itself.

Onto the update, it's only been a week but it's felt like forever. Mary couldn't handle the fights and disagreements anymore and packed her bags the day after my post. I knew this was probably for the best and didn't have it in me to argue or fight for her to stay. I just asked, "Are you going to Sally?" to which she just sighed and shook her head at me before leaving. Her eyes had nothing but exhaustion and disdain inside and to be fair, I'm sure mine were the same. The town I live in isn't that big, so I've had a few friends reach out to me that they saw Mary at Sally's place, or that the two were seen grocery shopping together.

I wake up everyday to an empty house, knowing Mary is at Sally's. Looking after her. Asking if she's okay. Cooking her meals. Cleaning her house. She hasn't called or texted me at all, other than to answer my call last night with, "I'm not going to talk to you until you apologise to Sally." and hanging up when I try to explain myself. I know I'd be lying if I said I felt bad for what I said to Sally at all. There's no point in hollow apologies and I especially don't think there's a point if there's nothing left to fix in my marriage. Mary has made it clear where her loyalties and priorities lie. I just don't understand how she can go from holding me while I cried in her arms to choosing Sally over me and ignoring me. My therapist is advising me to let myself just feel my feelings and process before making any big life choices, and she's probably right, but I've lost all respect for Mary. I never would've thought she'd betray me this way. I lied awake last night when I suddenly had the thought, "What if Mary came back on her hands and knees, begging and apologising? What if she gave me the best apology she could possibly give me for this situation? What would it change?" It breaks my heart but deep down, I feel like it wouldn't change anything. There's some things that can't be forgiven.

There were a few comments and dms asking if Mary and Sally could be having an affair, or if Mary knew about Sally before everything exploded. These questions did keep me up when all of this started going down, but now I can't bring myself to care. My life doesn't make anymore, so another clusterfuck detail wouldn't really change much in the grand scheme of things. I've drafted a text that could be the last text I send to Mary and it goes as follows:

"Mary. Your priorities and loyalties in this situation have been made very clear to me. I don't know if you want to try to save our marriage and the life we've built together, but at this point, I don't think there's anything left of it to save. You abandoned me during what I can only hope is the worst time of my life. You've invalidated my grief and anger for what? The woman who's been lying to and betraying us for years? The woman who used and strung Ben along for years? I don't recognise you right now. It's like I went to bed in a world that made sense one night and woke up in a nightmare. I think the only way forward here is for us to get lawyers and communicate through lawyers. I will not be leaving my house, if you want to collect your things, please let (relative) know so I can arrange that with them. I can't believe this is happening, I never thought this would be what we've become but choices have been made."

I've been reading and redrafting this message over and over again for hours. Sometimes, it breaks my heart, and other times, it's like I'm an outsider watching myself in a bad movie. The worst thing is, I don't even know if Mary will care about it. I guess I'll let you guys know if I send it. I know this can't go forever.

TLDR: Mary left the house to pretty much go look after Sally at her place full time. I have a really strong feeling we're going to end up divorcing. The damage is done.

EDIT/MINI UPDATE: Thank you to everyone for their input. I've deleted the text and I'm looking at lawyers in my area. I'm gathering all of my important documents and screenshotting all of my attempts at communication.

I've had a few people ask in comments and DM's about what I said to Mary in our arguments to make her leave. I didn't put that in here originally because we were honestly just going in circles again and again. It was nothing short of exhausting. Mary kept on insisting that Sally is still one of her closest friends and that she's not going to abandon her because she made a "mistake". To which, I'd remind her that her "mistake" was to make the choice again and again to lie to Ben and everyone around her, robbing Ben of the chance to find someone who would truly love him the way he deserved WHILE sleeping with and dating women while they were married. I can't imagine how scary it must be having to hide such a big part of yourself, but not everything can or should be forgiven. She could've been honest early on and she would've had a group of friends who'd have her back and support her however they could but instead, she chose to string Ben along. If Ben had died thinking he had the perfect marriage he thought he had, things would be different, but he didn't. He died lost and in pain as a direct result of Sally (the feeling lost and in pain, I know his death was an accident nobody could've seen coming). Mary thinks and claims I'm a "callous fuck" and I think she should have higher moral standards for her friends.

Relevant Comments

TwoBionicknees

Don't do the text, talk to a lawyer, get the ball rolling, get EVERYTHING DONE FIRST.

Get every account checked, amounts listed, itemised list of everything in the house, valuation on the house, check every stock, check every bank account, start changing the passwords and info on everything of yours, personal accounts, credit check stuff. Make sure you have all your documents and move them somewhere and secure them so she doesn't come over to get her stuff and take anything important.

Ask your lawyer for a list of every single thing to do so you are ready and there are zero surprises then have her served. Don't tell her you think you're going to divorce and not be ready.

Also talk with your lawyer about the situation, are you in a state where you can file for an at fault divorce, do they think you might end off better with a divorce due to her cheating, etc. If so, get a PI and have her investigated.

I'm not sure she's having an affair with Sally, she might be, but she might be having an affair and so doesn't see what Sally did as wrong and is able to have her affair while living with Sally.

It's also possible Sally and Mary have been covering up each others affairs for years. Again a PI can help there, old phone records, digging into weird numbers she used a lot, etc.

..

You are making the right choice to get out now. This is a moment of revealing loyalty, morals and values and your wife has shown she has no loyalty to you or the marriage and has questionable morals and values by choosing her friend.

There’s no trust anymore in your wife and you have good reason. I saw this happen growing up to a family that my family was close to at our school. The mom was helping her friend through a divorce, ended up cheating during a night out and getting divorced herself.

You know what to do. Get a lawyer and get the process started.

...

Considered ONGOING for obvious reasons.

I AM NOT OOP. DO NOT HARASS OOP.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Short

- 17th June 2024

- 12th July 2024

The girl I've (21m) been talking to admitted that she lied about her age. (Said19 but she's actually 15), i don't know what to do. I need help

About six months ago i sat with my friends, and i opened up about how I'm feeling down cuz I've never been in a relationship, and that i feel like i need someone in my life. My friends told me that i should get out of my comfort zone and go out more with them. Maybe I'll find someone. I've never been to a party my whole life. I've never been on a date, and the only time i even kissed a girl, i was ten. I don't go out often. I sit at home, write books, and play video games.

So, i said no, but after they insisted, i said ok. We went to a normal party. There was alcohol, and people dancing and whatever, so i think the last thing that would come to anyone's mind is a minor being here.

This one girl approaches me and makes it really clear that she wants to hook up. I refused, i never liked hooking up and stuff like that, nor did i want my first time to be with someone random, so i told her that i wanted to get to know someone before anything happens between us, so she just went away.

Maybe like 30 minutes later she came back, saying "you know i can't just let you go like that, so take my number" we talked a little, i asked her how old was she. She said 19, so i did, and so we started talking. For six freaking months, I've been spoiling her and showing her love because i didn't want a shallow relationship. We went on several dates, and i was even gonna ask her to come and live with me.

And yesterday she just drops it on me. Sitting on a date, she tells me that she's in love with me, and that i changed her so much because she used to just care about hooking up and that's all that she knew, she said that she always lied about her age to get someone to hook up with but i showed her that there's more to relationships, so she told me that she's actually 15 and that she wants us to stay together.

I didn't even listen to what else she said. i just got up and left without saying a word. I damn near cried when i got home. And now i don't know what to do Could i get in trouble? We never had sex but we kissed many times. Where the f are her parents? How the hell was she at that party? How do i cut her off now, she knows almost everything about me, she came to my house and kept knocking the door and apologising for what felt like an hour

.

So many questions in my mind i think im genuinely having a breakdown. She's still tryna reach me, i just wanna know what to do and would i be in any trouble legally? I do have texts where she lies and says she's about to turn 20, would those be useful if im in any trouble? God i wish i never even went to that party in the first place.

Comments

mlem_scheme

Save those fucking texts like your life depends on them, because it might. If there are any witnesses who can confirm she lied, try to get documentation from them too. I frankly don't know which is more risky: staying quiet or going to the police or her parents first. I would talk to your parents or somebody you trust about it and come clean to them. I don't think it would be overkill to get an opinion from a lawyer about how to best cover your ass. You're right to be scared. You just dumped an unstable teenager who's already shown a talent for lying. If she decides to get revenge, you could be in deep shit. On second thought, getting an opinion from a lawyer is definitely in order.

Choice_Slip_3193

Be honest and upfront with her to prevent any legal retaliation on her end. But you have to actually tell her that lying about her age is something you just can’t move past. A 15 year old has no concept of an adult relationship and why should she. She’s a child. So break it off officially, keep your documents just in case, lay low for a little bit to give your heart the space to grieve and then move TF on. You’re only 21 and life’s too short to wallow. You obviously have some charm if she doubled back at that party and you know how to treat your partner. Don’t be so hard on yourself, but your soulmate isn’t at home. You’re gonna have to get out of your comfort zone and live a little. The right people will come along

huuttcch

Message her saying you would be breaking the law by continuing to see her and will now go no contact. Make it very clear in the message that it is because she lied to you, that she said she was 19 when she was in fact 15. Also write that she should not be messaging older males, she will end up in a situation where someone will take advantage of her and you will not be that guy. And save those messages, they're good evidence of what she has done and what you will be doing now that you know. Even better if there's a message you have from her where she admits she lied about it. That's what I would do anyway. She's put you in a shit situation but teenage girls are very naïve unfortunately. She doesn't love you, she loves the thought of having an older, mature male in her life but for your sake you cannot be that guy or continue to be messaging her. It's too risky for you. As for telling her parents I really don't know if it's wise, if they're over protective they may try to put blame on you. Maybe another redditor can advise on that. Otherwise don't let it put you off meeting girls or socialising in the future. This is not a normal occurrence!

Update - 4 weeks later

Its been almost a month since the original post, and holy crap what a month its been. I almost got fucked up but i came here to say that im fine. Like i said in the previous post. I kept ignoring her, but then i get a message from her mom saying how dare i break her daughter's heart like that. Apparently she's so heartbroken and sad

I made it very clear that her daughter f'ed and light to me about her age. And that im 21. You wanna know the twist? Her mom already knows, and she let her stay because that was better than how she used to just hook with random guy's

I could stop myself from calling the police. Obviously every single freaking text message from her and her mom saved

If not for those text messages i would probably be in jail, because lying about there age is not a defence. It was the most uncomfortable time of my life. Because even tho we didn't have sex I was asked questions about things like was there any groping or long make out, and did i make move often or was it her, the whole thing made me wanna throw up.

I even heard and officer say she seemed to be dominant in the relationship or something like that i didn't hear it very well, but think good im fine. The girl is getting help for some undiagnosed mental problems that they found out she has. Her mom and dad i think are also getting punishment for allowing thos to happen to her, i just cut off myself from them completely as soon as i was done

Probably not gonna think about dating for a while.

Comments

andmewithoutmytowel

I had a friend who was in his 20s, went to pick up a date, parents met him and seemed shocked. They ask him a few questions, and finally “how old do you think our daughter is?” He says “Ugh…20? 21?” “She’s 15” He left and started carding girls that hit on him. It was hilarious.

BurnAway63

Dodged that bullet like a ninja. Well done.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not OOP. OOP is

Original posted 2 hrs. ago in

Updates are added to the original post.

This was a swift one!

AITA for telling my wife it is time she went back to work?

Throwaway account my wife follows my main.

My wife has been out of work since 2019, she had a mental break down during her fifth year of teaching. She has been going to therapy since, and we started marriage counseling during Covid. Reason for marriage counseling was because she thought I was pushing her too hard to go back to work before her and her therapist thought she was ready. I tried to explain many times that was not my intent but realistically speaking for me to keep up with expenses, and retirement contributions I pretty much have to take on extra shifts which sometimes clock in over 18 hours a day, and on average I have been pulling 84 hour weeks. I have been doing this since she stopped working.

We recently had a fight cause I had an extremely rough week and had the conversation again about her going back to work. She opened up with the same line she always does "We do not feel it is the right time yet, she feels I have made great progress and if I rush it I run the risk of losing it." The we being her and therapist. I told her I really do not give a fuck what her therapist has to say, and I am sick of you hiding behind her words whenever this topic comes up.

She started to cry, telling me she does not like being this way either and I am belittling her due to suffering from mental health issues. I replied saying I do not indeed to belittle you or not take your issues seriously problem is I am running myself ragged, and what happens if I have a mental break? Do you think I will have the luxury of not working? No, I will have to push through my demons.

She said her therapist warned her this would happen sooner or later I would try to manipulate her into doing something she was not ready to do. This is when I really lost it and just let it all out. I did not say anything kind. I told her she insults me for thinking what I am doing is manipulation. I told her I am working these extra shifts so she can be home and bullshit playing games. I told during this entire time you have not even made an effort to improve on certain skills, I told her she can still not cook to save her life, and that was sick of coming home after 12 or 18 hour days just make us dinner cause her idea of making dinner is pretty a pre-made in the oven or ordering out. Among other things, that said she stormed out the house crying yelling and shouting how I am a piece of shit, and rather see myself comfortable verse her getting better.

So here I am, I do not feel at the core I am wrong, and while what I said was harsh I think it did have to be said. So reddit was I the asshole here?

Hey I appreciate the replies, going to leave a quick update to answer and clarify what I can. I apologize if I miss something. Thank nonetheless.

Yes, I have been to a couple of sessions with my wife and her therapist. Tbh it largely felt I was getting ganged up on. My wife brought up how I was always tired, so I explained I am working harder to maintain our home. When I suggested part time work would allow me to work less, their counter suggestion was to cut things like saving for retirement, and hold off on paying off debt, and tackle such things after my wife gets better. Then I suggest renting out the house to cover the mortgage and we downsize to an apartment. Her therapist said such a drastic change to her environment could have a negative impact on her depression, and advises against such major life changing events.

During another session she brought up how my suggestion she tries cooking to save is money so we do not order so much. She felt insulted because in terms of money coming in I am making slightly more then our combined income, and she was able to cover her expenses so she does not understand why we are having such a hard time. I was honest, it has less to do with money per-se and more so the fact the amount of hours I have to work to maintain the income. I told her I pretty much am working two fulltime jobs. The cooking or doing things around the house was dropped fairly quickly and became a critic on how i cannot mange money since I am making more, yet I never had issues when she was working with how she spent.

More or less every session became what I could do to help my wife, and I get it her therapist has to look out for my wife and generally my concerns are small compared to my wife's. My wife is not a huge fan of our marriage counselor because she offers suggestions that go against her therapist.

My friend has also suggested I speak with a lawyer to see exactly what my options are. After reading many of the comments and thinking back on everything I think I am going to do that. I love my wife and I know she is sick but I am good to no one if i keep up this pace.

Final Edit:

Thank you so much for the replies and advice, was a slow morning only had one field call so I was looking over the thread with a colleague and close friend. After talking I have decided to put in a request for two weeks vacation. During that time I am going to relax with my friends play some Baldurs Gate 3 and also get my shit together. Going to speak with a lawyer and see what my options are cause I was young and dumb and much of her debt is mine because I cosigned and have a joint account. I will go to the doctor for the first time in four years and make sense everything is still working as it should. During this time my friend said I could crash at their place, so I am going to take him up on that offer.

This will be my final post here though, going over this I made this post for all the wrong reasons. This is something that should not have been posted publicly and I was petty for that. Even so, I thank everyone because a lot of what was said was what I needed to hear. I do not have much in terms of a family both my parents passed. Thanks for the tough love. Something has to change, and if my wife is unable I have to do it. I am young, I should be enjoying my life I am not even 30 yet as my friend said. I aged so much in these last five years, it is scary my friend showed me pictures from before all this happened. I want to go back to the person I was then.

I agree I was the asshole for what I said, but I do not regret it it was a wake-up call I needed.

I am NOT OOP. OOP is , account now suspended

Originally posted to

Previous +

Thank you to for the suggestion!

[New Update]: Dad stole my identity and opened 3 credit cards in my name. He told me since I'm young, I can "do without for a few years". I'm trying to buy a house and I'm freaking out

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Trigger Warnings: identity theft, financial fraud, financial abuse

RECAP

: May 24, 2024

I found my my dad used my information to open three credit cards over the last year. When I went to get a pre approval for a mortgage, I was told by the lender they wouldn't be able to give me a home loan because of the defaulted credit cards. They also said I probably wouldn't be able to get a loan from any lender because of it and gave me a sheet of paper explaining what I'd need to do in order to fix it.

When I tried disputing the cards, 1 of which is already in collections, they disputes got closed out as the debts were verified. I told my (divorced) parents about it and their answers were pretty wildly different. My dad said that "these things happen" and that I should be more careful in the future with my social security number. Seeing as I've always been careful, that made me pretty mad.

My mom said she thinks my dad might have something to do with it since him opening credit cards in her name had a part to play in their divorce. She told me he ran up about $50,000 in credit card debt on secret credit cards.

A few days ago, I ended up casually telling my dad I'm going to have to file a police report for the credit cards. He told me I probably shouldn't do that because $15,000 isn't "that much" in the grand scheme of things. When I told him it was keeping me from buying a house, he said I could just wait a few years until they fell off of my credit report. He said it would only take another four and a half years. When I told him I obviously couldn't wait that long so I have to file the police report he straight up told me not to do it and to just be more careful in the future.

Once I told him I already got the paperwork together from the credit agencies, he told me he had opened the cards to pay for living expenses over the last year. He said his work slowed down a little bit but he'd do what he could to help pay it off. He said it would ruin his life if he went to jail.

I'm leaning towards going to the police anyway but I didn't right that minute. I have everything in front of me today to go make the report. I guess I just want to make sure turning it over to the police is the right thing to do here. Especially if I'm wanting to buy a house this year.

Relevant/Top Comments

Maddogicus9: Report him for fraud

OOP: That's what I'm leaning towards, I'm realizing if I want to buy a house, I can't have those accounts on my credit.

GraceStrangerThanYou: If he wasn't your dad you'd have reported him already, right? Well, think about this, why didn't he give you the same respect and not ruin your credit because he's your father?

: May 25, 2024

Original OP -

I spent about half of the day reading everyone's comments and it pretty much solidified what I was going to do.

The process itself was pretty easy. I went to the police department and the person at the front desk had me wait about 10 minutes before an officer came out. We talked for about 15 minutes and he made copies of all of the paperwork I gave him. He told me the case would be assigned to a detective on Tuesday and gave me a pamphlet they have about how to contact the credit agencies. I was given a report number and was told I could use that now to start disputing the accounts. A detective is going to follow up with me in the next couple of weeks.

I asked what would end up happening to my dad and the officer said it looked pretty clear cut to him, but the charging decision is 100% with the state attorney's office. He said if they decide to pursue charges, he'll likely get a warrant put out for his arrest. He also said typically if this is his first felony, he's probably going to get some sort of pre-trial diversion with court supervision or probation. He probably won't go to jail for years, but if he gets picked up on a warrant, he's going to spend at least a little bit of time behind bars.

I've decided I'm ok with that because it's obvious to me he did this purposefully. He's never been arrested before so hopefully this is a wakeup call for him. At the same time, he completely did this to himself. I'll update whenever I learn more.

Relevant/Top Comments

matthewleehess_: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Sincerely hope everything works out well for you.

OOP: I think it will. From what I understand it might take a month or two for the cards to come off of my credit but once they do, my credit score should shoot up.

jewel_flip: Well done OP! I was so mad on your behalf reading the first post. It would take everything in me not to use his words against him. Jail time? “It’s just a few years.” You’ve ruined my life? “No. You did by trying to ruin mine.”

I hope the marks come off your credit report like it’s made of Teflon. Good luck on your home ownership journey!

: June 12, 2024

There's been some good, a little bad, and a little real bad progress the past few days.

The good: I used my report number and disputed every account. When I checked my credit last (which everyone should be doing regularly), the one with the lowest balance was already off of my account. The other cards and the collection account are still showing, but I have hope they'll be falling off in the next few weeks. I also received a call from someone at the prosecutors office who had a couple of extra questions for me and asked if I would be willing to testify if they charged him. I said yes and they said they would be making a decision on their charges before the end of the month.

The bad: Obviously, someone talked to my dad about this because the last time he talked, he scolded me for going to the police and hasn't talked to me since. One of my brothers was also pretty mad at me about it and hasn't talked to me in over a week. The rest of my siblings and my mom understood where I was coming from.

The real bad: One of my other brothers (not the one who was pissed) found 2 opened credit cards on his credit which weren't his. He checked his credit score for the first time in a couple of years and he said it was down about 150 points from where it used to be. He's now in the process of dealing with that. He doesn't have any positive proof (yet) that it was our dad, but the fingers are pointing in that direction.

This still blows my mind that a dad could do this to his own children. I'm moving forward though, I still hope to be able to purchase a house before the end of the year.

Additional Information from OOP

OOP: Also, I think all of my other siblings (there are six of us) are checking their credit too. Probably for the best.

----NEW UPDATE----

: July 9, 2024

Last update:

This is going to be my final update as it seems like this has gone viral and hit a few different big websites.

I'm happy to say my credit has completely returned to normal. All of the disputed accounts are now gone! Obviously, I'm excited about this since it gives me a solid financial future.

I also received a letter from the prosecutor's office two weeks ago and they said they are going forward with a charge of what is basically identity theft. I spoke with an assistant prosecutor and they explained they'd be putting out a warrant shortly but that as a first time offender, they'd probably offer a misdemeanor charge in a plea. My dad was arrested last Friday after a traffic stop. He got out of jail the next day and has a new court date in late August according to the public records website.

He called me and told me I'm dead to him and to never contact him again. My brother who found credit cards opened in his name has made a police report as well but apparently the addresses are different on the accounts. He was told it was unlikely it would be prosecuted but he's working on getting them off of his credit.

Additional Information from OOP

Just wanted to give everyone who commented in my other posts a shout out. You have all given me the courage to do this. I'm going to be deleting this throwaway because I really hope to put all of this behind me between the news articles and the having no contact with my dad. Don't let things like this sneak up on you, it breaks my heart to do this to my dad but he did this to himself.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am NOT OOP. OOP is

Originally posted to

AITA for not telling my parents that the event they were missing was my wedding?

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: golden child syndrome, favoritism, property damage, neglect

: June 30, 2024

Buckle up guys, this will be kinda long.

So I (27F) have a younger brother, Mike (21M). He is the definition of a man child and a mama’s boy, always complaining, always expecting others to bow to him. Just, overall, an asshole. Ever since he was born, my parents fussed over him for everything. He’s not special needs, or had a traumatic birth or anything of the sort. He was just… born. And my parents completely discarded me. My mom (50F) especially. She went from a loving mother to one of those boy moms that people make fun of on the internet. My father (50M) still showed me love and support, but he’s always been too much of a coward to stand up to my mother and let me win at least once.

The only one who stood for me was my grandpa (76M), who always called my parents out on their bullshit, and never liked my brother. I remind him of his late wife, my grandma, and we have a very special bond, but he lives on the other side of the country and I could never see him often.

Mike knows our mom prefers him, and loves to shove it in my face. Because of this and his behavior, we’ve always been at odds. He’s spoiled, a brat and an awful human. I can’t remember how many times I ended up in trouble for things I did better than him or for things he framed me with. His only talent are his football skills. He won a scholarship to a nice college out of state. My parents didn’t spend a dime on my education because apparently my fund had been used to cover expenses after a fire, just for me to discover years later that said money were given to Mike to buy a car and a house.

It’s at public university that I met Lucas. He was the first person I was really drawn to there. Of course I met new people who are now my dearest friends, and thanks to them and Lucas, who was my best friend for years before we got together, I managed to move out of my parents’ house. Now both Lucas and I are well known in our fields and have very good salaries.

Now, to the main issue. Lucas proposed to me a year ago. We’re very private people, so we didn’t post it on social media or anything, and when I told my parents they dismissed it with a “that’s nice” (I’m starting to think they downright didn’t listen to me at all). We decided that we wanted a nice but simple ceremony and reception with our friends and relatives.

Lucas convinced me to invite my parents and brother, but they never responded to the invite. And whenever I went to visit and began to talk about my wedding (without mentioning it was a wedding), my mom would always speak over me and about my brother’s accomplishments and wild adventures. At one point I got fed up with it, and interrupted my mom to tell her that there was an event I was planning to organize, whose date was unmovable. She told me that they couldn’t attend, because my brother was playing the last game of the season that very same day, and wanted them to be there.

Of course, this favoritism didn’t surprise me: they missed my ballets, shows and both my high school and university graduation for things about him. At this point, i wanted to be petty. I told both my parents that it wasn’t a problem to miss this event, purposely omitted the fact that this event was my wedding, and didn’t insist further.

Flash forward to a few weeks ago, I got married. It was perfect. My family, Lucas’ family and our friends were all there, and we had a blast. My grandpa was happy to give me away, and it was just perfect. My relatives asked me multiple times why my parents weren’t there with us. I was honest and simply said they had my brother’s game to attend, and couldn’t come. They gave me a few looks, and my grandpa was visibly angry for a while, but otherwise nothing strange happened.

After the reception, Lucas and I left for our honeymoon, and were phone free for the whole duration of the trip. But once we got back, we discovered that a shit storm was welcoming us home. I turned my phone on, and was unable to even unlock it before a storm of notifications popped up. Most of them were from my mother and brother. Mike called me all sorts of nasty names and insulted me because, apparently, one of my paternal aunts posted the photos of the wedding on Facebook, and captioned it with a very obvious dig at my parents (especially my mom) for missing the wedding.

The post apparently went viral in my parents’ community, and they’ve been publicly shamed for their mistreatment of me. It also turns out that my grandpa personally visited my parents to go on a tirade to shame my father, his son, to the point of tears. And this seemed to be my father’s breaking point, because he was so distraught for missing his only daughter’s wedding and for his father’s disapproval, that he finally rebelled against my mom and is threatening divorce unless she makes it up to me. I think that’s the reason why my mom has been spamming my phone with messages, at first insulting and threatening and then downright pitiful, full of begging and pity parties.

Now I’m at home with my husband, deciding how to approach the situation. Most of my relatives, even those I didn’t invite to the wedding, reached out to apologize for what I went through and to claim they had no idea this was happening at home (can’t blame any of my relatives, they all live with my grandpa on the other side of the country or in another state), but my mom’s sisters and friends are belittling me for not telling my mom about the wedding, because now she’s inconsolable at the thought of having missed my wedding. Personally I think she just claims that to save face, but I’m not sure.

The latest messages from my father and mother seem extremely saddened and hurt for missing my wedding. Now my family is divided on three fronts: the majority who is sticking by my side, my maternal aunts shaming me for hurting my mom’s feelings, and my maternal grandparents who are adamant that I forgive my mom in light of her “atonement”. My best friends are telling me not to listen to them.

So, Reddit, AITA?

TLDR since some of you guys want the juice without reading the post: my parents have preferred my younger brother over me my entire life, and prioritized his events over mine. I got engaged and told everyone, but was dismissed. I sent a wedding invitation to my parents and double checked, but they didn’t respond. When I told them the date, they told me my brother had a game they had to attend. I didn’t repeat that it was my wedding during the exchange and told them that they weren’t missing anything. I had my wedding and now my parents are receiving backlash from my relatives and community after my aunt posted a dig at my mother.

Edit: Thank you so much for the feedback and love! It’s overwhelming! I’m going to address the popular questions here:

1. I did inform my parents about my wedding. I sent traditional on paper invites to all my guests, and was notified that all invites had reached their addressees. I did not receive any answer from my parents and Mike, a few very distant relatives, and some people on Lucas’ side. I did reach out to all of them through message to double check, and those who hadn’t replied told me they couldn’t come. I asked my parents and brother via text, but they didn’t respond. I was left on read. Knowing them and given all the things I had to plan, I didn’t bother insisting.

2. I didn’t repeat the date of my wedding because I had already been told there was my brother’s game. Plus, every time I insisted on highlighting my celebrations to get an answer, I was always told that it wasn’t that important and to not be pissy and a bother. Because some things were simply more important than me. At this point I think it’s fair for me to not insist anymore. It’s not worth the effort.

3. I didn’t keep my wedding a secret. I avoided telling my parents that it was my wedding to see if they would be interested in the slightest, but surprise surprise, they weren’t. Despite this, I did openly talk about my wedding with my aunts and uncles. My mother was in the room with us a few times when I discussed venues or dress shops with my aunt (the FB post one), but some times mom was on the phone, and other times she was just chatting with other people. She never paid attention. When I talked about it during reunions, she smiled and said “that’s great, dear”, and then would change the subject. Radio silence on dad and Mike.

4. I kept in contact with them because, well, all the times I tried to go NC in the past years I’ve been harassed. I tried after my hs, bachelors and masters’ graduations, to which they never bothered to show up for reasons involving my brother. Every time I was shamed for daring to turn my back on family by my parents, my brother, my maternal aunts and my maternal grandparents. I think the turning point here is that, all those times, Lucas wasn’t by my side (we started dating a little after my last attempt at going NC) and, how that I have him here, I feel more confident in my stance. But before that, I want this confident. As I already stated, all my paternal side lives on the other side of the country and wasn’t aware of how they treated me. I did try to expose my parents once, at 14. My aunts, uncles and grandpa reprimanded them, they faked being sorry, and then once home I got the beating and gaslighting of my life for “lying”. After that, l kept in contact regularly with my paternal side, but omitting my parents’ abuse out of fear, which tbh still haunts me to this day. Only grandpa knew, but he was always threatened to be alienated from me if he tried anything.

5. My parents and I are not from the same city. I live in a city an hour drive from my parents’ small town, and they don’t know my new address because once, my brother tried to break in my apartment to steal some cash and my mother backed him up, claiming that siblings share their goods. Now I moved, and I’ll be sure not to tell them where I live.

6. My parents didn’t buy my brother a car and a house before he even started high school. They bought him a car for his 16th birthday, and a house near his college when he began freshman year. They didn’t spend the money of my fund right away, they just lied to me to use it later for my brother, keeping it stored for later in the meantime.

Edit 2: update is posted

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA!!

Relevant Comments

HereToKillEuronymous: Do you think it would have been different if they knew it was a wedding and not just an event?

OOP: Well, I am pretty certain my parents would’ve been a handful at my wedding anyway. They did ruin a cousin’s wedding by making it all about how my brother had just given his first university exam, and he got drunk and trashed part of the cake. So… I’m wondering what made me want to add them to the guest list in the first place, but then again in my family going NC or even LC is considered shameful. The cousin whose wedding Mike trashed cut my family off, and they’ve been dragged for “turning their back on family over a minor accident”

OOP on her father missing her wedding and why it was a big deal for him

OOP: Giving daughters away is a big deal in my father’s side of the family. He only has me, and has made it a bit deal since birth despite how he treated me. Appearances, that’s what matters.

Make of this whatever you wish to make it.

: July 9, 2024

First of all, I want to thank all those who were interested in my story, and those who wished me and my husband a happy life. I am beyond grateful for your reassuring messages, and your love and feedback. The response was overwhelming and beyond what I ever thought it could be. I love you all so so much🫶🏻

To those who believed my story was fake, i want to say that I’m happy your family life is better than mine, to the point of thinking of my reality as a fantasy, but I’d appreciate it if you stopped harassing me in DM, claiming that I’m writing a fake story for attention. If I’ve missed a few details in the OG post, it’s because I was overwhelmed and crying my eyes out because of my family’s harassment. You are not forced to read my story, or think it’s true, but I think keeping the smallest amount of decency would be nice.

Oh, and before diving in the update let me clarify a few things:

1. Yes, the invitation specifically stated it was a wedding. No excuses.

2. My maternal side of the family didn’t come to the wedding. I’m sorry, I didn’t make that clear in the OG post. Most of them were busy, and the others just gave me excuses to send a gift but not come. That’s it. Don’t ask me why they didn’t discuss my wedding with my mom, it’s not like I live in their brain.

3. My mother’s “atonement” is the fact that she apologized via text. 💀

Now onto the update, things have been a little crazy this past week. I got off of Reddit for a couple of days, to gather my thoughts. Then, I had a lengthy conversation with Lucas about how to proceed. He’s been my rock, and I don’t think I could ever love him more than I already do. My parents were always a taboo topic, but he hit me with a brutal reality check that I absolutely needed. We reached the conclusion that the fact I kept in contact all this time, stuck around and couldn’t go NC, isn’t healthy. I’ve realized that, the reason I never fully went NC, was that deep down I just wanted their approval, even now, for once. Pathetic, I know. But it’s like a drug, being with my parents. They can be loving, funny, caring and warm, until they’re not. The little love they give makes you crave for more, and you want their approval so badly you destroy yourself. But that’s enough. I promised myself that things are going to change. I’ve thought about it, and decided to start therapy, and to go NC with all those who made an issue about this situation, for good this time.

After the days dedicated on reflecting on how I feel, I ended up messaging my father to tell him that, if he wanted to talk, I would meet him, mom and Mike in a neutral location the following day. He immediately replied and agreed, and we met at the park. My father’s sisters and brother accompanied us for damage control. My father looked distraught and as if he had been crying for a while. My mom looked the same, but I think it was more out of anger and embarrassment. My brother looked annoyed.

I told the three of them about how their behavior and preference in regards of my brother always hurt me, and that their abusive behavior made me realize that I didn’t want contact with any of them again after that meeting. My mother tried to cut me off multiple times, but my aunt (the one who posted on FB) shut her up every single time.

When I asked them why would they treat me this way, they didn’t know what to say. My father kept crying and apologizing without giving me an answer, and my uncle reprimanded him for it. My mother seemed as if she was asking herself that for the first time, but well, in the end she just said that she simply disliked me. Plain and simple. And my brother? He just liked the attention and making me miserable as some kind of sport.

I went on with my questions. When I asked why they never responded to my invite, they claimed to have never received one. I showed them the texts, but they denied receiving them. And well, it turns out that they hadn’t, in fact, received my wedding invitation. When it arrived to their house, they weren’t there. The only one in the house was my brother, who had come visiting for the weekend. He saw the invite and, as many of you guessed, ripped it up and trashed it. And then, when I texted my parents, he deleted the messages (wasn’t hard to do, according to him they kept my chat archived and didn’t get the notification😑). So, my parents never actually got a formal invitation. I was just distraught. I asked Mike why would he do that, and he just shrugged, and claimed that it wasn’t as important as the stuff they had in program anyway. I had to stop Lucas from punching him in the face.

Strangely enough, my parents were upset, and started reprimanding him. He actually began to throw a tantrum and cry crocodile tears, and I must admit that I was kind of satisfied. But then my mom claimed that all was resolved, there was no need to fuss over a “misunderstanding”, and it was time for me to clear their name. That set me off, and I interrupted her, telling her that they weren’t forgiven at all, that just because Mike trashed the invite, it didn’t mean it automatically canceled all their neglect out.

Plus, all that time it was still very obvious that I was having a wedding, and they should’ve asked about it. You want to know my mother’s response? She said something along the lines of “I did hear you talking about a wedding of yours, but I just thought you were being delusional, and seeking my attention with exaggerated scenarios”. She was convinced Lucas didn’t actually like me, nor would ever marry me. When I tell you I was about to trash her face, do you believe me?

Another thing came up. It turns out that my brother didn’t have a football game to go to at all. My parents used the fact that my husband, friends and I know little to nothing about football (we prefer soccer), and the fact I stopped asking about it when Mike would mock me during his time in high school, to make up a story to avoid my event.

At the time I wrote the OG post, I couldn’t confirm or deny the presence of a game because my brother has private social media and Lucas and I are blocked, and I foolishly trusted my parents’ word. But no. You want to know where they went with that man child? They went to Disneyland, because Mike wanted to go. They used the football story to cover for my brother‘s hundredth tantrum-holiday, and apparently they did it multiple times in the past months.

At that point I was just completely burnt out and overwhelmed by this amount of information. The fact that I had been fooled this badly, that I was so gullible, genuinely made my blood boil, and I snapped. I stood up, and told my father he was a sad, weak man, unable to stand up for his kids unless his wife approved of it. I told my brother he was a little dipshit, a poor excuse of a man that will not accomplish anything in his life and that he’ll always live like the leech he is, babied to the point of uselessness.

And to my mom, I just… I told her that she was the worst narcissist, pathetic, little woman on the earth, that she didn’t even deserve to be addressed and judged, for her irrelevance. That not even God could help her out because she is just too rotten. Harsh, I know.

My mother shot up from her seat to scream at me halfway through my rant to her, but I was just too mad. I shouted at her to shut the fuck up and sit down, and listen for once. She got so mad, it felt like steam was coming out of her ears. I don’t remember much after that, just that I kept talking. And talking. It felt as if all my anger and hurt just flooded out.

At one point I’m pretty sure the whole park was silent. I spat at my parents and Mike that I was disowning them all, and that if they’re smart, they’ll think before reaching out again. I took my purse and left with Lucas, Anna and Francis, leaving my parents and brother at my aunts and uncle’s mercy. I think at some point the reality of what I had just learned and said finally hit me, because I ended up having a panic attack on the way home. Lucas was driving, so Anna helped me through it until we stopped in a parking lot to calm me down. I am beyond grateful for their help. Once home, I just fell on the bed and went to sleep.

I really wanted to go with you guys’ advice, and post the whole thread on FB, but given my work and career I couldn’t expose myself like that. One thing is sharing my story from an anonymous throwaway on Reddit, the other is on FB, with my name and face plastered everywhere. I couldn’t go down that path. Instead, I did something better: I made a folder with all of my mother’s insults, messages and awful comments, and sent it to the woman in charge of my mom’s church. It’s a tight knit community my mom worked her ass off to enter in, but that is also extremely judgmental, and being shunned by them is a death sentence. And well, that’s exactly what happened. Just like clockwork, the scandal spread like wild fire, going out of the church and reaching the rest of the small town. You can imagine what this means for my mother and father.

Because of my little spill, I did find other messages from my maternal side of the family, belittling me even more for upsetting their sister or daughter and insulting her. I just didn’t care anymore at that point, so I followed you guys’ advice, and told them that from now on, they will no longer be part of my life, and that they can talk shit all they want, I just won’t care. Instead, they should be grateful I don’t send their nasty texts to their employers and spouses. I blocked every single one of them, grandparents included, on everything.

I did find a lengthy message from my father. He apologized for not being strong enough to face my mother, agreed that what I said was true, and couldn’t believe that he had lost so much of my life because of her. He told me he is going to divorce her no matter what my decision will be, because he is tired of being controlled. He would like a relationship with me to make up for all the years that passed. I did reply to him, to tell him that as of now I really don’t want to see him or forgive him. He has replied that he’ll try his best to win me back, and that he loves me. I replied back that, as of now, I find that hard to believe, and then blocked him too. Frankly, his slimy way of trying to have an out from this situation by throwing my mother under the bus is pathetic. At least, she was hateful and owned up to it. He is only able to blame others for his choices. I don’t want to surround myself with people like that.

My mother and brother are blocked similarly to my maternal side. Mike wrote other messages to taunt and insult me, and I just blocked him. My mom threw herself a pity party for being shunned by her community and for her marriage going into shambles, and I just replied “good riddance” before blocking her too. As for my grandpa, he has decided to stay with us for a while, to stick by my side. He really is the best, and has read some of your comments (he isn’t going to admit that he’s flattered by them).

Since then a few days have passed, and all has been quiet. Lucas is spoiling me rotten, and I’m starting therapy soon. I know this isn’t the drama filled, revenge full update you hoped for, but well, this is it. I’ll let you know if anything changes or evolves.

Thank you so much for the love and support you showed me. I think I’m going to log out now. As for now, goodbye!

TLDR: I’ve decided to start therapy. I confronted my parents and brother about their behavior and ended up disowning them. I sent my mother’s nasty messages to the leader of her church and now she and her husband are shunned by their community.

Relevant Comments

TWAndrewz: Maybe once your father is actually divorced and gone NC with her and your brother, there's a basis for some rekindling of your relationship. But wow.

OOP: Perhaps, but as of now I don’t want to think about it. He’s been a supportive dad, but he’s never once defended me in his life. His love was “unconditional” until my mother decided it was, in fact, conditional. And sometimes, it really felt like his love was just something on and off. I don’t want to stick around to see when the magic spell will wear off

Editor’s Note: Thank you to for the correction. Anna and Francis are OOP’s father's siblings, not her best friends

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

2 updates - Short

- 10th April 2024

- 15th April 2024

- 15th July 2024

Am I wrong for not supporting my wife's surrogate pregnancy?

My wife and I have been married for about 3 years. Together for 5

She has a 16 year old daughter she gave birth to when she was a teen, but we both decided we won't have children her and I.

My wife's best friend asked her to surrogate for him and his husband, and she agreed.

I opposed to this, but she told me to deal with it.

I told her fine, but don't expect any help from me.

Now, she's uncomfortable being pregnant, she feels nauseous, tired, and sore.

I still do the thing I would do if she wasn't pregnant, but when she complains about cravings, or needing something from the store for her pregnancy, I tell her to call her best friend.

Her best friend and his husband are calling me an asshole, but I remind them that isn't my baby, and not my responsibility.

Comments

Lanky_Ground_309

I don't see a marriage climbing back from this hole

BlazingSunflowerland

It's such a huge lack of respect on the part of the wife toward the OP. Her friend trumped her husband. You don't come back from that.

WishBirdWasHere

She told him “DEAL WITH IT” when he said it’s not a good idea….……..now it’s her turn to “DEAL WITH IT”

BebeCakesMama2424

That is their baby, they should be helping her primarily. I don’t think you’re wrong especially since you didn’t agree to this pregnancy, this is their responsibility.

Egbert_64

Whose egg was used to make the embryo. Hoping not hers. That would just take this to a whole different level. Are they paying her a surrogate fee? I feel sorry for OP. I would not be surprised if he leaves her over this. And I really couldn’t blame him. Her ignoring his views is very hurtful.

OOP: No, it's not my wife's egg. It was a donor. Not sure who, but she doesn't have any connections to me or my wife. Well, at least not before this.

Update - 5 days later

Hello everyone, my wife and I had a talk, and agreed on a few things.

She says she's sorry for making this decision despite my objections. We had a lengthy heart to heart about this. We agreed that we would go to marriage counseling after the pregnancy is done, and she's had some time to recover.

We also agreed that she should live with her best friend and his husband for the time of the surrogacy. We talked to them and they both agreed to it.

Her daughter, (my step daughter) said she wanted to stay in our current home, she doesn't feel comfortable intruding into someone else's home. So she's staying with me at our home.

My wife VERY rarely apologizes.

I dont want to give up on this marriage, so I'm willing to work through this.

Comments

Beneficial_Syrup_869

How far along is she? This doesn’t seem healthy for your marriage, especially if she is in the first trimester. Months apart while you’re in charge of your stepdaughter? Why can’t you start marriage counseling now virtually?

She apologized but is now running away to be babied by her friends while you’re home alone with her daughter…

OOP:

"How far along is she?" - About 6 months in.

"Months apart while you’re in charge of your stepdaughter?"

We're not gonna not see each other for all those months. She'll primarily stay at her friends to make sure that her and the baby are comfortable. We also discussed that if her or her friends don't feel comfortable, she will move back in and we'll figure something else out.

Also, my stepdaughter is pretty independent and responsible. She's 16, so it's not like I'm taking care of a baby. And we agreed that my stepdaughter can see her mom at any time if she needs to.

BlazingSunflowerland

Your wife put her friends ahead of you and ahead of her own daughter. She has a daughter who needs her but is going to go live with her friends.

Thanks for providing stability for her daughter. It must suck to realize your mom doesn't value you very highly.

Update - 3 months later

She gave birth.

Thankfully, there were no complications. My wife is still recovering, but the doctors say both her and the baby are good.

Something my wife and I decided to do is to do marriage counseling before she gave birth, even though the original plan was to wait till she gave birth, we both started to really miss each other while she was with her friends. But we know there was tension between us.

It took a while for us to find a therapist whom we both felt like he could deal with our unique situation. We did find someone we both really liked.

We talked about how we felt, and how we need to make major decisions together, and take the other person's feeling into consideration.

We're still gonna go to more sessions, but we're gonna wait until my wife feels better. She's back home by the way. Her friends have covered all of the legal and medical expenses. They also insisted on paying my wife for what she's done for them.

My wife has promised me she won't ever make a decision like this without me.

I'm currently taking care of her. I know what I said, but I still love my wife, and I don't like seeing her so tired.

I think we're in a good place for now. I don't feel frustrated or resentful, and my wife has been really sweet.

One last thing. Some of y'all really tried to hammer in "SHE HAD ANOTHER MAN'S BABY" as if she promised me to have my baby. I don't see my wife as an incubator. I don't even want children of my own. Don't make it sound like she cheated on me. She didn't.

Comments

Apprehensive_Pie4940

Wife got what she wanted anyway, so obviously she can make all the promises she wants.

Petitebourgeoisie1

That’s exactly it. Mighty convenient that she now wants to resolve and move on when she got what she wanted. She can claim she’s taking the right steps and making amends when she doesn’t really seem she’s even sorry for it.

okiedog-

“Ok, NOWWWW I’ll promise to be considerate” “Until we disagree again” Literally the largest issue possible and she went rogue.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not The OOP's, OOP's are:

The Groom:

The Bride:

AITA i (38 m) for telling my fiancee ( f 27)her wedding dress choice is way too extravagant and suggesting alternatives?

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: harassment, verbal abuse, financial exploitation

by

Editor's Note: previous BoRU did not have the brides post

The Groom

Jan 14, 2020

sorry on mobile and throwaway as she's a redditor

We are getting married in july of this year,the venue is booked and the wedding is pretty much sorted.

Emma has been researching dresses and has a little scrap book of lots of dresses she likes for idea's but is now looking to buy.

All that's left to get is the bridesmaid dresses and her wedding dress.

We jointly put aside 10 k each for the wedding, everything is paid and we have 6 k left over which i think could go towards the honeymoon on top of the honeymoon fund we already had.

We aren't the extravagant type at all, then comes the time for emma to pick her dress. I know everything is more expensive when it has the term wedding attatched to it what i wasn't expecting was an $950 dress plus $120 veil!

I'm using my dad's old tux he used for his wedding to my mom,just had it taken in a little, Emma can't use her mum's dress as her and her mum both say the style hasn't aged well wich is fair.

I had a quick google around at dresses online and there were so many! and so many just like the one emma wants for like $50 to $100.

I'm not trying to get her to cheap out on her dress but she will literally wear it once, one dress for over $1000 is just insane that would fund our honeymoon .

I tried to show her some dresses i found on a reccomended app called wish and others on website's but she was having none of it.

She is very slender but apparantly wants it specially fitted?

It turned nasty unfortunately because i said i refuse to drop such a large amount of money on a dress and she argued that she is using her own money for the dress.

Wich isn't strictly true as we ate about to marry and our finances will be joined.

Then her mom had to get involved, they offered to pay for the dress but it's not a case of not being able to afford it.

It's a dress! there are identical one's online at a fraction of the cost.

I thought she would be ecstatic to learn there are identical dresses for a fraction of the cost but she was really angry and upset.

AITA here? is there something i am seriously missing because after we argued about the dress emma has been Extremely cold towards me.

Then yestersay she said if i want her to cheap out on her wedding dress on her wedding day that she needs to really consider if we are a good match for marriage.

Im blown away that she would say that over a dress, i told her she's like a toddler throwing a tantrum over a sparkly toy she can't have, that was a mistake as she left to stay with her parent's, who called to tell me i am much more than an asshole.

AITA here?

TL;DR fiancee can get similar dress for around $100 with shipping online but wants to blow over $1000 at a local wedding dress boutique aita for saying to get a cheaper one online?

EDIT: Emma found this thread, it was a mistake to post here and im sorry i posted our problems on reddit, iata

VERDICT: ASSHOLE

The Top Replies from OOP

but the gowns i found on wish looked very professionally made? and very similar to the one she's picked

I mentioned the second-hand wedding dress store and she said no without even going to take a look.

That's not fair, i would never tell her what to wear, she can wear what she wants, it is the absurd price that i am againt.

See i can definately understand caring about the quality of a dress if its a work dress or a regularly worn formal dress, i think what everyone's missing is that this will be worn for 1 day only.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Emma: Ask yourself if your fiance's behavior here is a one-off. There are some concerning things here:

• His insistence on controlling your purchase, made with your money, even if it's funded by your parents. Is he controlling in other ways? Has he ever been insistent on you spending your time and money only in ways he approves of, and does he usually lash out when you don't do what he wants?

• The way he's resorting to name calling because you wouldn't capitulate to his demands (calling you a toddler throwing a tantrum) instead of communicating with you respectfully. This is made especially worse by the fact that his demands are unreasonable and stem from a fundamental ignorance about the subject (wedding gown cost, what knockoffs are and why they're a bad idea, etc.), and that he's shutting down your attempts to educate him. Does he normally communicate with you openly and respectfully? Does he normally get angry and verbally attack you when you disagree with him? Are you normally able to have conversations with him on difficult topics that are calm, respectful and productive, even when you disagree?

Maybe you're both cracking under wedding planning strain, and this is an out-of-character moment that you can work through, but maybe this is pointing to a larger pattern. Proceed with caution. Remember you're about to enter into a pretty intense legal and social contract with this man, and that you're signing up for a lifetime of conflict resolution with this person in particular. The way you both approach disagreement and handle conflict now reflects how you'll be likely to continue to do so going forward. Now may be the time to double check with yourself if this is the right move.

Edit: After reading through the comments, I would also encourage you to look at his behavior here, on this Reddit post. His response to new information is not to take it on board and process it, but to double down, plug his fingers in his ears, close his eyes, and refuse to listen. The lengths he'll go to to avoid admitting he was mistaken are a bit troubling. It may also be worth asking yourself if there's a reason someone who is so insistent on always being right may have for seeking out a partner who's a decade younger. I'm wishing you all the best, and I hope this works out for you.

OOP

I thought ide have a look through the comments to see if anything explained why emma has blocked me and her phone is ringing through to voicemail. I seriously can't believe people started a witch hunt over a dress, i watched some YouTube videos of wish wedding dresses, and yes wish are trash i get it, i was wrong aboit that site. But to end up blocked because you have all told her i am abusive and manipulative is just vile. I called her parents house and the line's off the hook, so if you see this emma call me, please, i won't shout, i won't get mad i just want to end this crap. Get whatever dress you want i see that i was wrong I'm sorry.

Spellings bad had some whiskey, can you blame me after this?

MaryMaryConsigliere

Edit 2: Based on Josh's newest comment about you blocking him on messenger, it sounds like you're taking some time and space to think things over. I think that's a really good move. There's that may help clarify your thinking about whether this is a healthy, nurturing relationship. I hope everything turns out well for you, Emma, whatever you decide to do! There's a whole community of people here rooting for you to be happy.

Edit 3: It looks like OP has been banned from AITA. He just sent me a blaming the sub for what's happening in his personal relationship and reiterating that abusive behavior is normal and fine, so I guess he's learned nothing. According to the PM, Emma's dad just called him and chewed him out, so it sounds like at least she has a strong familial support system.

TRANSCRIPT OF THE PM

banned

im now banned from aita and good fucking riddance, her dad just called to cuss me the fuck out, can you believe ive ben trying to not FUCKING cuss so i don't get banned so i can atleast defend myself then banned for no reason. i live in the real world where when people are angry they yell, they save money where they can and they don't fucking run away and block you. fuck this fuck . it. all and fuck emma for believing strangers on the internet over her fiancee of 2 fucking years

~

cupcakes_and_vodka

EMMA - IF YOU SEE THIS, RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILLS. Men who are almost 40 marry 27 year olds often because they are manipulative and going to pull shit a woman his age won't put up with. He is too old for you. You are seeing signs of this behavior NOW. 950 bucks for a wedding dress ain't shit... He is already trying to control and manipulate you and your finances and you aren't EVEN MARRIED YET. DON'T GO THROUGH WITH IT.

OP, you are a massive asshole and she shouldn't marry you.

OOP

wow, thanks, seriously, she has been keeping up with this thread because she told me not to take it down, she wanted to read the replies, and now she's blocked me on messenger and my calls go to voicemail so thanks a lot everyone couldn't have left it at yta legitimately out for blood, mob mentality if ever i saw it.

The Bride

Jan 15, 2020

i will change the name despite his inability to do the same i don't really care if he sees this but he isn't subbed to relationships

i literally don't know where to start, my fiancee we'll call Greg. I dont know what came over him, its completely insane, we are getting married summer, the argument started over my wedding dress.

i picked a very simple and traditional gown that was already discounted as it is an ex sample gown. my absolute idiot of a fiancee decided to post to a subreddit asking for opinions or more likely validation on whether was being unreasonable.

my dress is under 1000 dollars but will come to around 1500 with alterations.

we have over 7 thousand left over in our budget, that's another thing that seriously upset me that he lied in his post multiple times, i make a much higher salary than him so we agreed he woukd put 5 k towards the wedding and i put in the rest but why lie? why ask opinions if you've skewed the details

i had absolutely no problem with this as he makes Just above the minimum wage.

the thread got way too much attention, i had already gone to my parents because i was angry about him calling me immature and shouting about me being spollt.

i also happened to find the thread shortly after he made it because not only did he use my real name his throwaway was his real name followed by his alarm pin!

he sent me a text saying that he wasn't the asshole in this situation and i just KNEW he would post it on reddit, it's not the first time he's posted on reddit about stuff.

but nothing of this magnitude, anyway i don't know what to do, there are people online now claiming to be me and its been shared on twitter and Facebook and I'm just absolutely mortified.

he got totally hammared last night and called my parents, my dad had to hang up on him because he was screaming down the phone and my mom was disgusted.

i cant get my money back on the venue or anything, i recently started antidepressants because I've been feeling low but now i Just feel empty.

this whole thing was about the cost of my dress and he suggested I use the wish app to get an identical gown, first he refused to listen to me that wish is garbage but he also argued it to the death in the comments!

i read every single comment in that thread and it was like being punched in the gut, i can't get over the odd lies either, he gave out my real name and his but lied about the age gap and budget.

i am 23 he is 43 admittedly he looks much much younger and for the first few weeks dating i thought he was in his early thirties. we also have only been together a year not 2 years i think he said, and im starting to think this was all too fast.

i need help, i need advice, i know im quite possibly pot calling the kettle by posting to reddit but i post here alot usually anyway and all the fake accounts claiming be me might throw him off anyway.

i might be slow replying as i start work in an hour thanks all x

tl;dr fiancee posted to reddit to get opinions on the price of my wedding dress but used my real name and it all blew up, bow people are creating fake accounts pretending to be me and he has devolved to calling me names and getting drunk and calling my family, he also lied about a lot of details in the post, how do I handle this calmly?

3 months later to ex-fiancé made a post

May 3, 2020

A few months back I was going to be married, and long story short things were called off.

She wanted to end things, I didn't. And I feel like I've lost all of my trust in woman I dont want to feel like this anymore.

I was dating someone called isabelle up until last week shes really amazing and kind but the second she heard about my ex and the fiasco that surrounded it she ghosted me.

And its become a pattern, at some point no matter how close were getting they hear about it from a friend it comes up somehow and they bail.

I just want to know how to behave, or what I can do to make things work? My last gf kacey, when she broke up with me she said the issue what that I hadn't chanced from who I was when my fiancee left me but I have!

I hardly drink at all now, my job is steady and I'm a good guy, but I think the issue is that I'm suffering from small town syndrome.

Everyone knows everyone here back asswards little town it is.

Please please give me advice on putting this behind me I am honestly desperate.

My life was about to move towards a phase and now I'm stuck in limbo, I need a girl to fill that place so I can move forward with my life.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

AITAH for wanting to leave my fiancée due to her abusive family?

Thanks to + for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: childhood trauma, abuse, financial exploitation, possible mental illness and controlling behavior, verbal abuse, gaslighting

: June 25, 2024

I’ve been dating my fiancée for 4 years and have been engaged for 7 months. We are trying to plan out a wedding for roughly Fall next year.

Her childhood was terrible and abusive to put it mildly. Her parents were raging narcissists, and she was the scapegoat for her 2 brothers. She was abused and thrown out the moment she turned 18. She was however, a great student and hard worker, so with some scholarships and a part time job, she has a great career and is pretty independent.

The problem is though, is that she still had contact with her family. None of them have changed...well actually something has changed; they have become more financially dependent on her. They enjoy slowly creeping back into her life and emotionally blackmailing her for support or whatever she can do. They're not pleasant about it either. They're rude, smug, and generally enjoy being a nuisance. And my fiancee can't say no. No matter the horrible things they say or how they outright try and intimidate her openly.

I've always known her family history and have always supported her through the issues with them, but in the last year or so they've become far more brazen and asinine. They come over to our house more often, they make messes all around the place. Her mother acts like she's the fucking stepmother from Cinderella. Her dad drinks all my fucking beer and empties out half the fridge. Her brothers stop by occasionally to act as mouthpieces for their parents. They practically trash the place and leave us to clean the mess.

And where is my fiancee in all this? Quietly standing in the corner practically shaking. I'm no fool here, there is legitimate trauma. There's her need to feel loved by them and her hoping they will appreciate her. Before one of you noble commenters states the obvious, she's been in therapy for this for years.

I've tried to establish boundaries. For nearly 2 years I've been trying to push these assclowns away. But this is her house she purchased, and no matter of contributions financial of otherwise will she let me have a say on who comes into her house. She's been beaten down mentally and emotionally by them for so long. She has told me recently that she wants to earn their approval. How they were right about her. How she needs to be better for them. I've had too many emotional conversations with tears and begging to count, hoping she will take the steps to get better. But she's an adult. I can't force her to do anything.

I love her, but I can't help but feel so resentful of what she's doing. It's agonizing watching someone you love, someone who you know deserves so much better, openly destroy themselves for people like her family. it's been painful watching her cry herself to sleep one too many night because of them.

I've tried too many times to help her get out of their clutches. But I have to think of the future. Hhat happens when we have kids? What happens when she is postpartum and invites them over? What happens if their is a medical emergency for either of us? What if our finances get tight and they still demand money?

This is the in law family from Hell and I won't be able to avoid them. Tomorrow I'm going to tell her how I want to delay the wedding until firm boundaries are established. If she resents I walk. I can't do it anymore. I refuse to watch a slow death like this any further.

UPDATE: Talked to her and it went about as well as one could possibly expect. Currently getting myself set up in a hotel for a few days and working on possible long term plans for moving out. Still alot going on right now but maybe sometime next week I'll be able to pit everything together into one update

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Relevant Comments

frankiesmile: Would the 2 of you be open to couples therapy? Therapy is too often brought up as the ultimate solution to relationship problems but in this instance having a neutral 3rd party who is experienced and qualified in the area of couples therapy could be really helpful. Best of luck and the only AHs here are her family.

OOP: I've hinted at it before but she hasn't been very receptive. I'm hoping tomorrow I can try and pursue that and not have to make an ultimatum

kmflushing: NTA. You can't save her if she doesn't want to be saved. Even if she wants to, you'd only be able to help and support. She need to be the one to enforce the boundaries and hold them. But she doesn't.

It's up to you if you want this for life.

Have you spoken to her about where you are? That you're on the verge of breaking up with her for this lack of boundaries?

No, it's not to manipulate her into choosing you, although some will say that. It's just a statement of fact. She may be willing to sacrifice everything for her family, but you are not. If this is the life you have to look forward to, you don't want it.

You need to put yourself and your needs first.

Who knows. It may prompt her to open her eyes and put herself first with her family. But likely not.

: July 1, 2024

The night after I made the first post I had decided that I was going to have a heart to heart with my finacee about her family. However, she came back from work the next day early and I already was off that day so i initiated the talk a little sooner than I planned

Essentially, I told her how this arrangement was not sustainable, I did not feel comfortable marrying her due to how much involvement in her life her family has, and I certainly did not feel comfortable bringing a child into this world with them. I didn't want to tell her cold turkey no contact with them, but strict limitations to start with on then coming over, and what they can do around the house. I also requested couples therapy before marriage. She wasn't happy. She was just staring angrily at me while I spoke then started yelling at me when I finished

She told me I don't understand their dynamic and it worked for her. I told her that they're abusive users who will bleed her dry and I have never seen them showany decency to her. She told me she just had to work harder for them to appreciate her. I basically yelled at her that a parents child shouldn't have to beg and plead and "work" for them to be loved. I finally told her that she sets limits with them or I walk

She was livid and since I was living in her house I was kicked out. So the past few days I have been staying in a hotel and have had my stuff taken out and put into storage. And frankly, it's been great. I am going to stay with family for a few weeks around mid July and after that I am going to go house searching for myself. I have spent the last couple days relaxing, catching up on movies and video games I haven't had time for, and could go back from work to a quiet room without her family tearing the place apart.

Yesterday however things came to a head. We have basically been no contact since she booted me out, but I know every Saturday her family loves to spend the afternoon over and she uses me as a shield from their abuse. However in a very petty move I simply kept my phone muted all day and played Disco Elysiun. I knew she would call back for help with her family and at this point pure resentment was kicking in for her and I wanted nothing yo due with her issues

By the end of the night she had sent me over a dozen texts and finally 2 frantic voicemails begging me to come home. I decided to come over to check up on her. Long story short she was sobbing in the living room and when I came to talk to her she was practically crushing my back hugging me and sobbing. I gave her time to cool off and asked what happened.

Long story short, her parents and brother came by to gift money from her and say horrible shit to her. She wanted to have me come over to help but I was ignoring her, and when she tried to have one of her friends help out and everyone basically said "fuck that", it all started clicking in for her. She kicked her family out but not before they said some utterly vile shit to her I won't repeat. She kept apologizing to me and told me over and over to come home.

I told her plainly that I had started to build up heavy resentment towards her for some time and while I loved her and understand it was trauma and not her being outright abusive, there was major issues that would need to he addressed if we were to move forward.

1. She sells the house and moves. We make roughly the same amount of money and we will buy a house together. I am a grown ass man and I will not live in a house I have no equal agency over

2. Her family will never step a foot in it. They will never come over. They will be treated by me in a very threatening manner if they try and come in

3. She gets a new therapist and we start pre marital counseling

4. She never makes me interact with her family

5. We will go LC with her family right now but make no mistake we are working towards full NC on her end.

I told her I love her, we have been together for a while now and have beautiful memories together and I know she is suffering from abuse, but these are non negotiable and if she has a problem with any of them then we have to go out separate ways.

She told me she's realized for a while now that her family is toxic and unhealthy she wants to make changes. She has accepted but some of these will take a while to see through

For now I am going to stay in the hotel until I head back to stay with my family. She is welcome to come over but I have made it clear her house is not somewhere I want to go. Her and I are both off tomorrow so we will spend the day here and maybe go out. This is obviously not over yet but I might not post anything else until Mid August or so

Comments

glitteringapplepear: It’s cute you think she won’t contunue to choose her family over you, but it’s going to be even worse once you’re legally bound by a home purchase.

TheGoldenSpud: She isn't going to follow through, she is going to do anything she can to keep you around as her shield but she isn't going to cut them off. And if you get a house together and god forbid have a child you're then tied to them and your child is tied to them for the rest of your life. The best thing you can do is step away.

: July 6, 2024

Despite all intentions of not updating until much later with the hopes of an improved relationship with my fiancee and her establishing boundaries with her toxic family, we are now broken up.

Essentially what happened was after last weekend where I left her for the time to deal with them herself, she seemed to finally grasp the situation and was open to changes including boundaries and a possible move. We spent Monday and Tuesday hanging out in my hotel that I was staying in until I went back to my family for a couple weeks.

The other night she was being very vague with texting when she originally was supposed to come over. She came much later than expected and I knew something was up

She basically unloaded on me how I was abusive, controlling, overly demanding, and unsupportive. It took me 5 fucking seconds to figure out she was repeating verbatim some sort of rehearsed speech from her parents. And to be honest, I was so agitated at this point despite making a huge gamble on her I decided to be a prick about it

I asked her if her family told her to say this. She said they suggested it to her but she came up with it herself (suuuurrreee). I asked her to explain in detail what I did. She said I was living like a parasite off her. I reminded her that I'm paying 50/50 for HER fucking mortgage, 50/50 for utilities and groceries as well. I have my own car I pay for. A job that makes just about as much as hers, unlike her fucking leech parents who demand payments on the weekly and raid the kitchen on the weekends. I told her to try again with something better

She looked flustered and said I was trying to isolate her. I kinda smirked like a jackass and told her that I have always supported her many friendships that she has destroyed on her own because no one wants to deal with her family or be used as a shield like me

I was practically demanding to know at this point why she is so hellbent on destroying her life for these people. She just kinda shouted that I don't understand her family and she's just trying to earn their love back and was bascially ranting at that point.

It's just so staggering to see up close. I have ventured into a few subreddits to get perspectives, and if you have any familiarity with them you'll see how people who are victims of abuse by their own family can be so utterly broken by it that it'll wreck their brain to where they truly believe they are the problem and they deserve the abuse. Well, that's how she was. She was utterly broken and didn't want help. She didn't want to get better, she just wanted to get worse.

It hit me like a truck honestly, the realization. I really did feel like a fool for trying, even if it was what I was supposed to do in the first place. She was practically berserk at this point and I was just mentally exhausted and needed her to leave before someone called the police. She finally left but I had a few concerned neighbors check on me.

Some of her friends are aware as they have messaged me checking on the situation. I told them the truth and that I just needed to be alone to think what to do next right now. They have revealed that she has given them similar rants after they expressed concern for her. One had even heard that she may be possibly at risk of losing her job. She is definitely having some sort of mental break. From my understanding, she is now completely isolated.

She is actually sprinting into a horrible lonely life right now. There's nothing I can do for her at this point and as selfish as it sounds I'm just glad it's going to be behind me

Comments

Dipshitistan: Move out, cut all contact, move on. You can't make someone help themselves.

MikeReddit74: Sorry it went this way, but you can’t help someone who doesn’t want it. In many ways, she sounds like an addict, and her “addiction” is to the vile treatment she gets from her family, and to the faint hope that they’ll love her someday. She has to hit rock-bottom, just like any addict, but you shouldn’t be around when that happens.

: July 9, 2024

Things have kinda wrapped up but there were some loose ends. I completely forgot to change my mailing address which I should have done ASAP, so a couple important things got sent to her house. I had to go pick them up plus a final couple of items i want for my move that i left there and decided i wanted to actually take. She was being difficult and not responding to messages in regards to them, so I had to go get them from her myself. I brought a mutual friend just in case. Thankfully she was at least cooperative in letting me get my stuff and it wasn't much of an issue.

Everything else was though

She had alot of nasty things to say. Telling me she was already sleeping around. Telling me how happy she was now that I was gone. Telling me she's finally free of me, how she's going to be so much better off without me. Alot of generic insults and horrible things you would commonly expect from a nasty breakup.

And you know what? It was so fucking obvious it was a rehearsed script from her family and you could easily see how miserable she was. She looked like a mess, like she hasn't slept in days. The house was a mess. She wasn't even yelling it. She sounded so exhausted and broken when she said it. She didn't even smile when she said anything. Just a face contorted in hate and anger. She was not the woman I knew anymore. That person was gone

When I was getting ready to leave she was still going on. I was fed up and told her something along the lines of "congratulations. Your friends are gone. Your human shields are gone. Your engagement is over . Your support is gone. Anyone who ever treated you like a decent human being is gone. It's just you and your family. I hope you're happy while they bleed you dry". It probably didn't go like that but something like it.

She just...stood there. Literally just stood there and looked at me with indifference and walked away as I walked out the door.

As we were leaving the mutual friend Tiffany asked if I was OK. I reassured her I was and I'm just trying to get myself set up to go home next week. She also confirmed that she hears my ex did lose her job for not showing up for several days and basically ghosting them

They're going to try an intervention next week and asked if I could participate but I'm not delaying my travel because frankly I just want a clean break. I know for a fact that if I stay involved in only going to be witnessing the slow decent to either a full break or a suicide. I just can't do that

Despite all this I'm actually excited for the future, and I have realized that I ignored way too many red flags at the beginning. Even with everything that happened I know I'll be doing good and am going to be alright

I expect this to be my final update. I'm still in town until Sunday afternoon so something could happen while I'm still here but if anything does it won't be exciting

Comments

Clean_Factor9673: NTA. Not participating in the intervention was the right choice. Maybe it'll help her but not your problem.

She's proud of sleeping around????

cryssylee90: She’s becoming her family.

You did the right thing. I come from a family much like hers. I’ve watched multiple cousins evolve into the next generation of abusive AHs after once swearing they’d get away. They cared more about their family’s approval than they did their mental well being, and now they’re miserable and just like their parents to their own kids.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not OOP. OOP is and they posted on and their profile.

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

June 4, 2024

My (25f)’s girlfriend (26f-Lotta) has always been on the more quiet and reserved side but also incredibly kind and conscientious of other people. She also doesn’t let others walk over her and knows how to set (and stick to) boundaries which is one of the reasons I was attracted to her. But a few weeks ago, I think she was too ruthless.

A few weeks ago, our upstairs neighbour (who Lotta and I are close with) showed up at our door sobbing and begging Lotta to babysit her 5 year old for an hour because her one month old was having trouble breathing and has stopped breathing at one point and needed to go to the hospital ASAP. The neighbour explained her mother was on the way as they speak but she has no one else to take care of her other son. She also offered to pay Lotta. I was at work at the time.

Lotta said no. She said she was busy and couldn’t do it. The neighbour ended up taking both kids to the hospital. I found out about this incident when I got home from work and Lotta told me. I was genuinely surprised to hear she said no which seemed to annoy Lotta.

Its been 3 weeks since that event and our neighbour has been quite cold to Lotta and this really bothers her. She says she was just setting boundaries and that our neighbour was entitled and snobby for being upset that Lotta said no. I explained I felt differently and am more on our neighbour's side as 1) she has never asked us for any favours in the 3 years we've known her and 2) this was a medical emergency- not her wanting to go clubbing with her friends. I told Lotta that she didn't teach our neighbour a lesson,, she only added stress she didn't need.

This really upset Lotta because she thought I would be on her side. She then asked me to talk to our neighbour to try and rekindle their friendship. I said I can't do that for her, she needs to apologise herself and put in the work.

Lotta stormed off and now keeps saying I'm being a huge asshole for not siding with her and helping her with our neighbour who is 'her friend'.

AITA?

EDIT: Lotta was 'busy' cooking dinner and catching up on a show of hers. She wasn't working or doing anything that would be dangerous for kids to be around.

Relevant Comments:

linzerdsnort6:

NTA.

"this was a medical emergency- not her wanting to go clubbing with her friends. I told Lotta that she didn't teach our neighbour a lesson,, she only added stress she didn't need."

That's it right there. This is SO horrible to do to someone. Because Lotta was "busy", that poor 5 year old was exposed to further trauma by having to go to the hospital and potentially witness their baby sibling being poked and prodded and probably have tubes shoved down their throat.

I really hope Lotta doesn't want children of her own. Or maybe I do, because then she will realize what a total AH she was to this poor woman.

BeeJackson:

NTA - Good for you for recognizing that it wasn’t your job to mend the fences that Lotta broke. She might be good and kind in most instances, but in this case she doesn’t know how to admit that she was wrong and apologize to the right person. Sounds like she’s mad at everyone but herself.

I’m also on the neighbor’s side. This was a small test of friendship for Lotta and she failed it. She didn’t want to be inconvenienced, which is fine. But now your neighbor doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by befriending Lotta.

andromache97:

NTA

"She says she was just setting boundaries"

and so is the neighbor by distancing herself as a result of these "boundaries"

people really think they can treat people however they want and then get upset when they suffer the consequences as a result.

if Lotta wants to rekindle her friendship with the neighbor, Lotta should talk to her herself.

NotCreativeAtAll16:

Wow. Your GF is cold.

Sure, she didn't have to sit for your neighbor. But your neighbor has now seen that she is a cruel person who cares more about boundaries than helping out out friend in an emergency.

Her friendship is gone. She cared more about whatever she was doing at the time than helping out a mother who's child stopped breathing. She was even going to pay her! Honestly, I wouldn't lift a finger to help her repair her situation. She can be cruel to people, but then she has to live with the outcome.

June 29, 2024

~~Posting here because AITA mods are a nightmare~~

So first things first; a lot of people were asking why I was with Lotta and it's because her behaviour during this incident was totally out of character. I was genuinely surprised to hear Lotta's actions to the situation which is why I wrote in. We've known each other for 8 years and I guess I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. So many comments were asking if she had any redeeming qualities, which, yes she does and that's what made this whole thing so confusing to me. She is usually a very bubbly, kind person who remembers the small details and is just a nice person. I don't know why she had this shift.

That being said, I did take into account some comments suggesting this was the 'real Lotta'. Even if I took it with a grain of salt, it helped me to think through our interactions.

We had a discussion about it and I laid out all my points and concerns. How this didn't seem like her, how callous she was and how I don't know how to move past it if she's acting how she is about the situation. She pushed back and once again said it was just 'boundaries' and she really 'didn't feel like' babysitting in that moment. I said that I'm sure our neighbour didn't want her baby to stop breathing either.

The conversation got kind of heated because Lotta genuinely wouldn't even own up to being 'kind of' callous and rude (even though I think 'kind of' is a huge understatement). She just kept saying that our neighbour's mum was on the way anyways so 'what's the problem?'

At this point I was at a loss. There was no convincing her that what she did was awful and she wasn't going to see it. I told her I needed time to think but I already knew my stance. I told her I wanted to break up. Her response was 'seriously? Over me setting boundaries? [Neighbour] is going to walk all over you now, I know you've been bringing her food. She's not a stray, she can cook her own meals.'

She left half an hour later and is scheduled to come pick up the rest of her stuff later. I genuinely wanted to believe this was just a huge fuckup and misstep on Lotta's part and not her character shining through but it's clear that her standing her ground and not owning up to being callous and awful doesn't align with me.

Thanks to everyone who commented.

Relevant Comments:

TheYankcunian:

I’m sorry about your relationship ending, but I’m glad you got to see her true self before you wasted anymore time with her.

I said it in your last post, but setting boundaries isn’t, “I’m not doing that.” Setting boundaries is, “If you do X, I will do Y.” Like: “If you keep putting hot sauce in all the food instead of your own… I’m going to not cook for you anymore,” and then following through. Nothing she did had to do with boundaries and everything to do with being an asshole.

Best of luck with the recovery and moving on. I’m sure you’ll find someone as kind as you are!

bubblez4eva:

I'm glad you saw the true her before getting in too deep, like marriage. Everyone is nice and generous until it affects them. Truly mind people are still kind when no one's watching.

Silent_Ad_8672:

This would be a huge dealbreaker for me too. Outside of needing to be at the hospital myself I cannot fathom turning someone away like this and I'm not even good with kids.

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Trigger warnings: possible emotional abuse, parental alienation, foster care challenges, abandonment issues, emotional distress, relationship conflict

**1 updates – medium – long **

- 7th July 2024

- 9th July 2024

I think my (M29) girlfriend (F28) doesn't see my children as legitimate, and I don't know where I can go from here? - 7th July 2024

I'm going to try and summarise this situation as much as possible, it's late here so if things don't make sense please ask me to clarify.

My girlfriend, "Em", and I met when at University almost 10 years ago. We had been friends on and off since then, but it was never like we were super close. We met again at a new years party in 2023 and we started talking more and eventually we started dating. I'm a foster parent, my parents were one when I was growing up and once I reached of age to qualify I trained to become one myself. I've been fostering since I was about 22 years old. I currently foster 3 boys, the older two are biological brothers and moved in with me early 2022. But the youngest one "11" has lived with me since June 2019.

This is something that I obviously made very clear to Em when we started dating, to which she had always been incredibly supportive. I introduced her as my "girlfriend" to them about 6 months ago, I know that took me a long time but I'm super cautious with introducing new people to them especially considering some of their pasts surrounding step-parents.

She never rushed me into introducing them, and has never tried to force a relationship with them. Looking back, I don't know if she has even tried to form a solid relationship with them at all. "11" has been moved to a long-term placement with me (which is two steps below adoption), it means he is never going to be removed from my household or reintroduced back into his bio-family. He is my son, calls me dad, etc.

He hadn't been in contact with his bio-family for over 2 years, and has been really wanting to get in contact with his mom. I have been trying my hardest to arrange this for him, but his bio-mom just hasn't been willing, since he's moved in with me she's had 3 more children who have all stayed living with her. This is something 11 really struggles with, he has such complex feelings of abandonment that I couldn't even begin to unpick them here. But I have been working to build his self-worth back up, it has been a long road with so many ups and downs, but I feel like I am getting somewhere with him finally.

Me and his SW finally managed to arrange contact with his bio-mom and that she agreed to meet him in person, this has been what he has been begging for, for years. It was arranged for last Sunday. Looking back she immediately seemed off after I told her. When I asked she just told me that she had had a bad day at work, even though she seemed fine prior.

About 5 days after I told her when the contact was arranged for, she asked to meet up for "romantic" dinner. I asked my mom to have the boys for the evening and met her at her favourite restaurant. And she told me she had booked a romantic lodge trip, I was initially excited. But I found out she had booked it for the same weekend 11 was meeting his bio-mom. I told her I wouldn't be able to go, that I needed to be with 11 because I knew that he was going to have such a hard time processing his emotions and thoughts after his contact; and that he would just need that support.

She went off on me, saying how I always prioritise the boys and never her and how I should be happy that she booked and paid for the getaway even though I make more money than her. She said I should get my mom to do the contact, or ask their agency to arrange someone. I said no, I wanted to be there to support 11. She said something along the lines of "you won't be able to do this when we have a child". We ended up having a huge argument, she left the restaurant and then texted me some pretty nasty things later, and then yesterday she messaged just normal messages as if nothing happened, but I haven't responded.

I've come to realise that she doesn't consider my boys as genuinely part of my family. She doesn't see me as a dad, she sees me as a babysitter. I don't want this relationship to be over, genuinely I love her. I'm the type of guy who wears his heart on his sleeve. And I have felt so depressed since the fight, and it was even worse that I just had to almost wear an emotional mask for 11 the past week because he has been so depressed after seeing his mom that I don't want him to see me depressed.

Where do I go from here? Please don't give advice of "just break up" because I know that's an option but I don't want to take it. It's hard finding people with what I do for a living, and I feel so broken that I thought I had found someone real.

TL;DR: My girlfriend and I had a huge fight because she planned a romantic getaway on the same weekend my foster son was meeting his bio-mom for the first time. She thinks I prioritise the kids over her and I don't think she sees them as my real family. I love her and don't want to break up, but I'm struggling with her lack of understanding and support for my role as a foster parent. Where do I go from here?

Top Comments

iamltr

so this comment ”She said something along the lines of "you won't be able to do this when we have a child”." did not make you stop and think? she fully expects you to stop caring for the children who are not yours if this is real and you love these kids like you say you do, you have no choice but to break up

SquilliamFancySon95

Your kids are your priority. Do you think it's fair that they have to share their lives with a woman that doesn't treat them as family? If you're going to be a foster parent then you need a partner that's on board with that, don't settle for someone just because you don't want to be alone.

nuttynutdude

I mean, yeah you absolutely should prioritize your kids over her. The idea that her date plans should force you to cancel ANY preexisting plans with your kids, much less a meeting this important to your son is ludicrous. If you really want this to continue, and to be completely honest most people wouldn’t tolerate how she treated you, you’re gonna need to sit her down and reiterate that your kids are your priority and the “pretty nasty things” she said aren’t ok, because staying with her long term means she at some capacity becomes their mom.

jesuschristjulia

I feel like I’m going to get down voted here but I’m an adoptee and I have a different perspective. She’s wrong for double booking but she’s also not wrong overall.

You waited a long time to introduce them. And maybe they are a big part of your life but perhaps because of the length of time you spent before the introduction, you didn’t show her that in any meaningful way.

Also, they’re not your kids. They’re not. So many people, even those with the best intentions, can put their own adult stuff onto kids in need. I’m not saying you’re doing this but some folks get a savior complex and consider themselves “parents” before they themselves are grown. They allow the relationships to get codependent. That can be real confusing to kids that can actually have their live uprooted at any moment.

I respect what you’re trying to do and I do think you did the right thing in siding with the plans you made with the boy. But she said “you’re not going to be able to do this when we have kids…” makes me think that you didn’t explain this situation to her properly. Did you have conversations at all regarding having biological children and how that would fit into your lifestyle? If not, I can’t really blame her for her reaction.

ThrowRA5267981 (OOP) responding to jesuschristjulia

They are my children.

Update: I think my (M29) girlfriend (F28) doesn't see my children as legitimate, and I don't know where I can go from here? - 9th July 2024

Hi everyone, thank you guys for the support I got from my first post. I really appreciate all the love I got sent about me and my boys.

I just wanted to clarify some things from my original post. - Some people made a lot of really unfounded assertions about me and my family based simply off the post:

• People saying I would let Em abuse my sons, obviously not true, and I think it's mad that people even made came to that conclusion. I was slow to introduce Em to my boys, due to their past trauma with step-parents. Only introducing them about 6 months ago. Looking back I can notice that she was very distant with the boys, but at the time I had attributed that her maintaining boundaries because of their past trauma.

• I had people commenting that I would be 'giving my sons up' when I had biological children (simply not true, or even ever suggested by me). I don't really need to say this, but obviously not true, and pretty insulting thing to even try to suggest.

• I had people commenting that I shouldn't call my children "my children" because they haven't been legally adopted. 11 has been long-term matched with me, and my other two are in the process. They are as permanent as biological children. I see them no different, and they don't see themselves as any different.

• I even had people saying I was perpetuating toxic masculinity by saying I was 'wearing a mask' to support 11 while he was depressed after seeing his mom. I express my emotions to him plenty, he did not need anything additional at that time. I did wear a mask so I could support him without him thinking I was feeling overwhelmed.

Just thought I'd hop on and give an update about where Em and I are at currently with our relationship. I messaged Em back and asked that we meet up and have a conversation in person. By this point I had already decided I was going to officially end things with her, but I didn't say that over the phone as I think it's more 'proper' to do it in person.

We met up in town, I asked her why she booked the holiday for the same weekend as 11's visit even though she knew it was then. She told me she 'forgot', but honestly I don't believe her. I think this was a test. Someone commented that she purposely put me in a position where I could not be the good guy. No matter what I would choose someone would be let down. And honestly I think she underestimated my devotion to my children, she thought I would just go with her and I think she was genuinely shocked when I didn't. But I don't understand why, I am quite accommodating, but I have always made it clear my children are my first priority.

I asked her if she fully understood what my boys mean to me, she said she did. But then in the same breath tried to say again that I could have arranged someone from the agency to take him to the visit. I asked how she would have felt if your father cancelled an important day with you to go on holiday with their girlfriend? And she said to me "You aren't their dad. You need to stop acting like you are."

I tried to say something say something I had planned out before, but I am such a bad speaker it probably didn't sound anything as good as what I am about to write. But this is what my plan was: "I am their father. I am. Just because they aren't related to me by blood does not make them my family. They are my children, the fact you think I'm not their dad is insane. There is absolutely no way I am letting you poison out relationship or act in any way toxic to them. They mean far, FAR, more to me than you ever have or ever will. Our relationship is over." And I left.

I feel like she's changed so much, but someone commented that she actually just showing her true colours. Which is true perhaps. But I feel so led on and hurt. It's so hard to date with what I do for a living. So hard. But as you guys said, I don't need to stay in a toxic relationship just because I'm scared it will be hard to find a new positive relationship. I also had people say it will be easier in my 30s compared to my 20s because people will want to settle down more. I hope that is true.

But yes, we are completely through.

If I could use this moment to say, people please look into fostering. Fostering is hard, so hard. But really worth it. You are actively creating a better future and life for an individual in ways that you might not even see, but you are. You are creating a safe and loving environment for an individual that may have never had it before. You are helping a person have a positive future whereas they may have just fallen to the cycle of abuse before. If you are a caring and loving person, please look into it.

Relevant Comments

Marzipan_civil

Just want to say, thank you for being a great dad and putting your kids first!

Responsible-Stick-50

Super proud of you. You are a stand up human. I hope you find a partner as committed to fostering as you and one day you and your future partner have many fostered and adopted children in a big house full of love.

Even though it sucks because you're hurting right now, you always make the right decision for the kids. Good job dad. Hugs from an internet stranger. ❤️

Tr1pp_

This world needs more men like you OP

phastisasu

yeah, man, good on you. You’re doing great stuff. But you do need to temper your expectations with dating l. most women even in their early 30s in my experience but have trouble dating a single father, let alone a single foster parent to three foster kids. So yeah maybe set your sites a little older upper 30s early 40s might have more luck up there

Smoke__Frog

What makes a young single dude like you want to foster not 1 but 3 kids?

Like, it’s a very noble thing, but how did you come to this decision?

3 kids as a single dude seems absolutely insane to me. You’re just going to sacrifice your money and free time for so many foster kids? How do you even have time to date someone?

Some more relevant information from ThrowRA5267981 (OOP)

annang

This is what makes me think your post is fake. Unless you’re independently wealthy, there’s no way you can survive and raise three kids on just the foster care stipend.

ThrowRA5267981 responding to annang

It’s a completely different system in England compared to (I’m guessing you’re from the US). I get paid around £24,500 per child. And that’s for a “standard child”, it can go as much as like £40k per child.

Here agencies don’t want you working, they want you available all the time for the children, you can work though it’s frowned upon and it has to be flexible hours around the child/ren. And so your pay reflects the fact you have to make huge sacrifices to your career.

I know it’s a completely different system in the US, and though I’ve spoken to many American foster carers on Reddit I still don’t really get your system

rosiedoes

Sorry, I'm not involved in fostering and you described it as "two steps below adoption" or words to that effect, so I assumed there were following stages to formalise an adoption still pending. Either way, he is your son.

But yes, I think that sums it up well - you couldn't win in that situation. I'm sure if you had chosen her, she would have questioned your potential loyalty to your future children if you were prepared to choose the trip over 11 in his hour of need, too.

I would consider looking into details and experiences of coercive control, and ask yourself if you recognise any. It isn't exclusively something that happens to women, and it usually starts small and plausible and then escalates. This may be a warning sign that needs to be picked up on now, rather than later.

ThrowRA5267981 responding to rosiedoes

Thank you so much for your advice, honestly it has been a real eye opener. She displays a lot of coercive control traits, something that genuinely never occurred to me before.

Yeah, I explained it weird. Basically, in fostering there's:

Short-term placement: They have plans to either reunify this child with their bio-family, or have them adopted.

Long-term placement: This child remains in foster care but is permanently matched with their foster carer. There are no plans to move this child out of the household or reunify them with bio-family. Parental responsibility remains with the LA. (This is what 11 is currently on).

Special Guardianship Order: The child remains a legal tie to their bio-family but is no longer considered a foster child. The "foster parent" now has parental responsibility, they have a legal connection to their foster parent. (This is what I'm seeking for 11, but it takes ages)

Adoption: The child has no legal tie to their bio-family. In the eyes of the law, he is no different to a member of your biological family.

GillianOMalley

I'm an adoptive parent and I had to give a little side eye to OP as well. If he is so insistent that these are HIS children why isn't he on the path to adopting them? If that were the case there is 0% chance that he wouldn't have said so.

He also apparently fosters children as his "job?" Which is not to say it isn't real work (raising any child is) but I can't help but think that would have an impact on the children. If they know that his income is based on taking care of them how could they not, on some level, feel like they are a task instead of a member of a family.

ThrowRA5267981 responding to GillianOMalley

11 does not want to be adopted by me. I mean he would love it, but equally he wants to keep a legal tie to his bio-family. When it's been explained fully to him, he has said it isn't something he wants to pursue at this time. I respect that, I won't pressure him into breaking a legal connection with his biological family that he can never get back.

We are moving from being long-term matched to an SGO, which gives him a legal tie to me (and also gives me full parental responsibility, which would be great for me).

I don't call fostering a "job", but it is what I do for a living. I know this is very frown upon in America, however that is not the case where I live. Who I foster with actively discourages you to work. They want you available for the children whenever, and there are a lot of meetings and training required during "normal" work hours.

The fact I do this for a living has nothing to do with adoption, if I pushed for adoption my fostering allowance doesn't go away. I can push for it to be written into the adoption process, and even further until 11 is 21 (normal fostering allowance will stop when 11 turns 18).

This is quite literally what I was referring to in my post about people making unfounded assertions based on nothing. Comments like yours are quite frustrating honestly, and I genuinely feel they stigmatise foster children as "not real members of the family", more than just being supportive.

ThrowRA5267981

If I'm completely honest, I didn't read that full comment before I responded. I was stressed enough as is and stopped when they said "you are not their parent".

What you're saying is correct in some ways. It's always been my ideology to follow the child's lead. I never for example asked to be called "dad", he tells people he's adopted by me and at first that was something I kind of felt uncomfortable with, just because I didn't want to put it in his head if it wasn't something that was going to happen. But I was advised by my SW that if that's how he wants people outside of the family to see him, that's his choice.

When he moved to secondary school for example he told me "Don't introduce yourself as my foster parent, just say you're my dad" (the school themselves know he's fostered, but he meant in general). Again, who he wants to know the intimate details of his family life is up to him and I will follow his lead.

I've always been super supportive of bio-family being part of children's lives (when that's something wanted by the child themselves). 11 had weekly contact with his mom, but sadly she was a no-show most the time. Every week it was so hard for him. It got to the point where he asked to stop the contact all together.

Refused phone calls with her when offered, was a battle to get him to write letters to her. But we tried all sorts of strategies to help him, but by the end of it we could see the only thing he wanted from her was commitment. He wanted to know we could book a visit and she would turn up, but he really wanted that.

Which is why it took so long to get this visit sorted because she was straight up told "if you're not ready, do not arrange this. Only arrange this when you will 100% come".

He does consider his bio-mom his parent, that isn't something I would take away from him. Or want to, I am very supportive of their relationship and want him to have a strong bond with his bio-family because that is what he wants.

Equally though that does not take away from me being his parent, I am his dad. 11 considers me his dad, and I consider myself his dad. 11 in the past asked to be adopted by me, which is something we explored with his LASW, however when it was fully explained that this would then cut his ties permanently with his biological family (from a legal perspective) he said that wasn't something he wanted to purse.

I respect that, and won't push him into something he isn't really or comfortable with.

Something I speak about is families come in all different shapes and sizes, me being his parent doesn't take away from his biological parents also being his parent. That's not how he views it or how I would view it.

“The child likely still considers his mother his parent, despite how she has treated him and OP being an objectively better option, the child would possibly choose to live with his bio mother if given the option.”

This however is not true, 11 had the choice of continuing on short-term placement with me while they worked to reunify him with his bio-family, but he requested to stay with me and requested to be long-term matched to me.

Brave-Banana-6399

At what point is it sort of weird when you start insisting you are their real parent? For instance, as a volunteer who sees the kids once every six weeks, it would be weird to insist you are their permanent and real parent, right?

OOP kept insisting all the kids, including the ones who are at least three levels below adoption, if not more are his kids. With his own background of being fostered, isn't this a red flag that OOP himself might have some self reflection to do?

ThrowRA5267981 responding to Brave-Banana-6399

No, because that's how they consider themselves. Adoption is not what makes someone my child. Legally perhaps, emotionally, no. Plus adoption is not a straight forward path, and isn't the correct path for all children.

It's always been my ideology to follow the child's lead. I never for example asked to be called "dad", 11 tells people he's adopted by me and at first that was something I kind of felt uncomfortable with, just because I didn't want to put it in his head if it wasn't something that was going to happen. But I was advised by my SW that if that's how he wants people outside of the family to see him, that's his choice.

When 11 moved to secondary school for example he told me "Don't introduce yourself as my foster parent, just say you're my dad" (the school themselves know he's fostered, but he meant in general). Again, who he wants to know the intimate details of his family life is up to him and I will follow his lead.

Your comment is another example of what I consider use filling in the blanks with your own unfounded assertions. You're making the assumption that me considering myself their parent isn't by their own lead. You're assuming that's something I am projecting upon them and insisting they do. When it simply isn't the case.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The threads are over 3 months old, no pissing in the popcorn

Background

is a subreddit that's revolved around the american movie theater company, AMC. Unlike most brand subreddits, this one is about the stock ticker of the company, which for people who don't know what that entails, here's a quote of a loyal AMC supporter from the linked threads for context.

These SHILLS are hilarious, they have NOTHING ELSE but senseless posts to cling to as for me I just LOVE AMC STOCK! Nothing will EVER change this, especially some bullshit posts from HEDGECUCKS

I could spend a few paragaphs trying to explain why (alongside other memestocks) believe they will become infinitely rich, but that isn't required to really experience the drama that will unfold here today, so we'll just go straight to it.

Drama

A local of posts the second of their twice-daily post, detailing the information posted from a paid subscription service for stock market data. It was going to be another calm day if it wasn't for one particular comment

lol doesn’t work kiddo

.

I broke his bot again

(99 children of replying to ".")

Unfortunately, there's not much drama in a comment chain of solely replying to ".", these will come later in the callout threads

lol nah, bugging bears is fun

OP calls out the "."

Yeah; he [the "." poster] didn’t seem to catch on what I was doing

Bruh,

If he's a bot, then you're wasting your own time chatting with a bot that isn't even saying words to you.

OR

If he's not a bot, then he's trolling by wasting your time by making YOU always gave to have the last word and take the time to reply.

I don't see how this is a flex.

No flex, just wasting his time

How tf do you waste a bots time? lol

Maybe his time is worth less than what it costs a bot to generate a message? Bet you haven't thought of that.

Nope. He just slipped up. And I’m calling him out for everyone to see

Seems rent free almost.

I sure am rent-free in his head. Hey; remember when we roasted you here yesterday. Let’s do that again

I really don’t think you understand how any of this works. Im not even going to argue, debate, or anything of the sort since all you spew is futile nonsense. It’s actually not productive in the slightest and wastes time, energy, and overall brain cells. I hope you have a good life and people to take care of you jerkis, because you truly are the biggest idiot I’ve ever laid eyes on, let alone had to absolute displeasure of interacting with. Thank your for being the garbage you are. Amazing. Astonishing even.

lol yeah you sure did get ripped a new one here… wanna go back to your safe space and I can make you bothered there?

Jesus Christ, the retardation is ripe.

"." comes back for round 2

[DELETED OP + COMMENT], 289 children

.

I'm not going to quote the full thing, have some highlighted responses instead

Checking to see if we can trigger 300 more out of him. Let’s countdown together.

282 - Dude ran out of gpt tokens

I’ve got them showing their desperation now lol

Every time he has to remember who he serves… me

At least he can’t make the argument that I’m wasting my time because it’s his being wasted

PLOT TWIST! ChatGPT code was definitely used to automate the responses!

What’ wrong kiddo? Nice comments. It’s funny making you upset

Aren't you tired?

Not at all. Most of my melty bugging is low effort and highly effective

Logically if you're bugging, let's say, 1000 people, aren't you doing 1000x the work?

Oh I’m not that cruel… yet

Hell no, this was just a few mins of tinkering around that has taken up 37 hours of a melty

No one needs to do coding for a career to make a melty triggered, that happens with almost anything now. I’d hate to show them what shirt I’m wearing as I’m sure they’ll get emotionally bothered by that too

Sounds triggered

You sure do melty

Keep looking pathetic as you flail, the fact you coded a script for Reddit of all thing instead of dropping the ordeal in the first place shows how stable you are.

This is JavaScript not Java lol. It's funny that the OP didn't correct you, likely because he doesn't know what it is either.

lol melties are so very easy to trigger. It’s a hobby kid

Trigger? You think the people watching you be down 90+% are mad?

I think people thinking I’m down 90% don’t understand math. And yeah, there is a large group of people who seem to be overly bothered by what individuals do with their money… so yeah, triggered is very much an appropriate word

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My (32F) husband (33M) is maybe cheating with a student (18F), what do I do?

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

TRIGGER WARNING: emotional infidelity, verbal abuse, grooming, predatory behavior

  July 8, 2024

I am freaking out right now.

My partner is a high school math teacher. He has been teaching now for a decade now and generally has been praised by students, parents, other teachers and admin for how he does his job.

We have been together for 7 years. We got married in 2023.

I have never worried about him being interested in his students. We have even talked about teacher/student relationships and he has never expressed anything other than disgust and how it’s an abuse of power, even if the student is an adult (not to specific instances irl, just movie instances and general topic discussion). He has never been called out for being inappropriate (that I know), never engaged with students over the weekend/summer (unless it’s school related, but even then ALL contact is through school email or with parents). He generally refers to his students as his ‘kids’ and actively keeps a distance from developing too close of a relationship, because he is young, attractive and other male teachers recommended he do so.

Okay, here’s what happened:

Around March, we were at the movie theatre one evening and I noticed a gaggle of girls staring and pointing. I notified my partner, assuming they were his students, and he told me I was right. We did not go over to say hi (we have seen his students before out and about and he says hi on a case by case basis but typically doesn’t initiate) and they did not come to us. But, I noticed the rest of the girls playfully shoving one girl with lots of whispers, and the girl was staring at my husband sheepishly. I immediately thought she probably had a crush and honestly, thought nothing of it after until last weekend.

We were celebrating Canada day at a BBQ with family and my husband was pretty wasted. At one point, he went to the bathroom and didn’t come back for so long I was worried he was getting sick, so I checked on him. When I knocked and said it was me, he said he was okay and would be right out but didn’t unlock the door. He stayed in the bathroom for another ~10 minutes. Super unusual for him but it could have been anything.

Later that night, I woke up around 3 and he wasn’t in bed. Worried again, I got up and found him on his phone in the living room. This is also unusual. When I asked what he was doing, he was definitely surprised and hid his phone screen. he said he couldn’t sleep and didn’t wanna wake me up by watching videos next to me in bed. We both went back to sleep together.

The next morning, he was hungover and slept in. I went through his phone. I have never not had a reason to trust him, so I have never gone through his phone. I found nothing of interest, except for the Snapchat app, which was not logged into. He used to use snapchat but, from what I knew, hadn’t in years. I honestly assumed nothing finding the app and figured I was reading too much into things.

Last night, I saw a snapchat notification pop up on his phone while we were watching tv. It was out of the corner of my eye but the logo is too recognition to mistake. My heart fucking dropped, because, knowing he was logged out last week means he is definitely using it secretly. I pretended like I didn’t notice and a couple minutes later he got up to “take a long poop”. I cried while he was in the bathroom. Shortly after, I said I was going to bed early and he stayed up without me (he’s on summer break).

When I got up for work, he was still passed out. I went on his phone and found no Snapchat app. It was then that I knew something was shady for sure and when I looked up Snapchat on the home screen, it was there, just hidden in a folder of apps disguised as cooking and workout apps. He had not logged out of Snapchat and when I opened it, there was only one conversation with a real human and it was a girl. There was no evidence of conversation between them because, for those who don’t know, snapchat deletes previous messages for good.

I was ready to confront him for cheating with basically 0 evidence but decided to keep snooping for something concrete. In that same disguised folder, I found that he had onlyfans downloaded. The only content creator he was subscribed to had the same username as the woman on Snapchat, but it’s his fucking student. The one from the theatre, who was blushing. I have never clocked a face so fast. I am 100% certain. We make fun of onlyfans simps all the time so I was already disgusted but I actually threw up when I found this. I was scared I was going to wake him up and genuinely didn’t know what to do so I put his phone back and left for work. At work, I did some sleuthing and was able to find the girls instagram/twitter accounts. She’s 18 and from grad photos I can tell with certainty that she attended my husbands school. The same onlyfans link was in her twitter bio.

He has texted me normally throughout the day and I have not responded to any but to tell him I have to go to my parents tonight but in reality I am still at work because I don’t know what to do. The reality is that this is fucked up but she has graduated. Is this now just the same as any old affair? I don’t even know if she was in any of his classes. I don’t know what to think.

I don’t know what to do next? Lawyer? Should I ask my husband and see what he says? Should I ask her?

Edit to add: Does anybody know how to/if you can tell when an app was first downloaded?

TLDR: My teacher husband is snap chatting/subscribed to onlyfans of a student of his school who is 18. Help.

Update: This blew up and theres too many comment to reply to. I made an update post this morning link is here

  July 9, 2024 (Next Day)

My post blew up and there were many updateme comments so I wanna to update. I read every single comment but there was too much to reply to.

To clarify some things:

• No, I didn’t have pictures or screenshots of the snapchats or onlyfans. I was so upset I didn’t even think about it until afterwards and I thought there would be another chance to get them. I realized I fucked up.

• For some of my early comments, my brain was still reeling. I am 100% leaving my husband, to make it clear. It took me some time to come to terms with what was actually happening and the fact that I was in denial but reddit helped me get there, so thanks.

The comments were about 50/50 split between talking to a lawyer or my husband first. The reality is that I didn’t think I had anywhere else to go at the time and I was so emotional last night and felt like I needed to know. I wanted to confront him and rip off the bandaid. He called me while I was still at work and I ended up telling him we needed to talk. He seemed thrown off by this and cancelled plans to stay in. I didn’t get home for almost 3 hours after that, crying and deciding wtf to do. Ultimately I went home. If you’re ever in the same position, don’t do what I did.

I wanted to follow the advice of many comments by basically saying “i know about her”, but I really wanted to get pictures of the evidence first, so I planned on playing it cool, saying never mind all is okay, until we went to sleep and then sneaking back on his phone. I shouldn’t have said anything on the phone but my emotions got the better of me.

But when I walked in the house, I immediately felt like he knew that I knew. He said “What’s up” super standoffishly, just seemed off and whatever I said on the phone must have tipped him off. Either that, or he was able to tell that I was on his phone in the morning somehow, pretending to be asleep? I’m not sure.

So I couldn’t control myself and got super emotional and confronted him on the spot. I asked if he had onlyfans (it was the first thing out of my mouth) and he literally said “No. What did you want to talk about”. I told him I knew that he did and he denied. I told him I went on his phone this morning and scoffed and walked away.

I followed him crying and screaming that I knew he had only fans and snapchat that I was leaving him and finally cried out something about cheating with his students. When I said that he immediately turned around and asked what the fuck I was talking about. I told him that I knew about The Girl (18F) and his face genuinely turned into somebody I don’t know. He immediately began yelling in my face that I don’t know what I was talking about, how dare me accuse him of sleeping with his students, that I’m crazy and trying to ruin his life. I was screaming at him back.

I told him to open his phone and prove it and he laughed in my face about how stupid somebody would be to do what I’m accusing him of and basically threw his phone at my face and said “knock yourself out”.

As people can probably guess, there was nothing. He definitely knew before I got home. He was logged out of snapchat and when I asked him to log in and stop lying, he logged into a different account and asked me if I would “drop it now”. The first one had just 18F and a few AI account things. This one had all his old college group chats and other people (including me). He gaslit me and swore he didn’t have another account. He even suggested that I dreamt all of this.

At one point he finally “admitted” that he subscribed to an OF for a streamer during one of our intimacy lulls but never a student and he swore he lied because he loved me and doesn’t engage in that kind of behaviour anymore.

It was just hours of lies and gaslighting. He said that he knew which student I was talking about but that he’s never spoken to her or taught her. He didn’t recall the movie theatre incident and accused me of imagining it too. He denied receiving a snapchat at all a few nights ago when I first saw it. He denied acting shady the days before. He denied everything.

I was absolutely disgusted by him the whole night. As the conversation went on, he started to talk about how he’s going to get us marriage counselling, that my trust issues can be worked on and he would leave teaching if it’s what it took for me to stay, but never admitted to anything with a student.

Admittedly, I was starting to get a bit of a gaslight fog about the situation, believing some of what he was saying, but when he volunteered to leave teaching, I KNEW it was worse than I knew. Because teaching is his everything, he gave up an amazing opportunity which would have made him 3-4x the money and way more recognition to teach and has never complained about his job a day in his life. We both know he loves his job more than he loves me. If this was truly all a misunderstanding, or if it was a one-off with a graduated non-student, I just think he would do more to protect his job and his career, he wouldn’t just leave over crazy behaviour from me. That immediately told me everything I needed to know - that he was panicking on the inside about me leaving and me telling people. Maybe because more happened with 18F than what I know, maybe because he’s done this before, I’m not sure. But he fucked up bad.

It’s so late I was so exhausted and I feigned agreement in working through it and told him I could move past it but I was obviously lying. I need time to get shit in order. He is sleeping in the guest room tonight. I told him I would need a lot of space and he said he was okay with that. He left is phone in our bedroom for the night as a “peace offering”. I hate his fucking guts. I have so many things on my mind right now: what the fuck to do, how to get a lawyer, if i should tell my family, if i should tell the school, the fact that I have no proof but I KNOW what I saw. Ugh. The fact that I’ll be 33 and divorced. Above all - the fact that my husband may have slept with this girl (that’s my gut telling me, because he kept repeating that he would never sleep with his students, over and over, when I was using words like cheat with, look at porn of or sext with).

So that’s the update. I was gaslit and lied to. I got no sleep last night but still went to work this morning to get away from him. He hasn’t texted me or called all day. I want nothing more than to go to the school with this info, my heartbreak is gone and i’m just angry and disgusted and want to right his wrongs, but I need him to admit to it so I can know how bad it is and I don’t think he will. I was thinking of telling him that I reached out to the girl (I’m not going to) and see if that freaks him out enough to come clean, but what if she doesn’t know/he’s using a fake account? Or just saying I have proof, even though I dont. Anybody have any good ideas? In the mean time, looking for divorce lawyer asap.

tdlr: found proof of husband snapchatting/subscribed to students only fans, but now all evidence is gone and he gaslit me. Have no idea where to go from here besides start the divorce process.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

trishsf

First. Get an attorney. Follow the advice of said attorney. Second. Any chance of contacting this girls parents?  I’m sure they would have a better chance of finding proof and have every reason to want to do so.

OOP

I thought about contacting her parents. I don’t know if they would care though, she’s 18 and my husband works at a school with a lot of disadvantaged kids. He teaches advanced maths and said she wasn’t in his advanced classes/she’s never been in his classes and she’s “not a smart student” so he would never had a reason to interact with her. If that’s the case, who knows what the parents would think.

I’m also scared it’s overreaching in that she could get in trouble for having an OF if I tell her parents. I will ask the lawyer this once I speak to one.

~

SnooWords4839

Talk to a lawyer and get a PI involved. You will get your answers, he can't completely hide everything.

OOP

Leaning towards the PI.

I understand everybody saying to divorce him, I don’t need evidence. I am. 100%. I don’t know how long this whole process will be but that WILL happen. I will probably have to live with him in the meantime, we both spend the majority of our income on our house. But I do not plan on being intimate with him ever again.

The thing is that he is BELOVED in the community. I genuinely think people would believe him over me. I do. Maybe I’m wrong but his family would never believe me I know. Even my own family will be shocked. I want to hurt him like he’s hurt me and maybe even hurt other people so I want proof. I think I’ll look into some PIs, is there PIs which can investigate somebody online though? Or just real life?

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not The OOP, OOP is

How did you decide if you wanted to have kids?

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

  Nov 9, 2020

I never wanted kids before but a bunch of my friends are having them now and I'm reconsidering. If I were to do it, I'd want to make the decision ASAP because of my age. I don't want to discuss it with my husband until I've collected my thoughts more. Obviously, it's a big decision and I'd love to hear others' perspectives:

Reasons NOT to have a kid:

• Before Covid, I had a really active lifestyle and I don't want to change that. I usually take a few international trips a year and one day I want to live abroad. I take classes, have a bunch of hobbies, and spend a lot of my time on personal development.

• A few years ago, I took a kid to the zoo and was surprised/annoyed that we had to spend most of the time at the playground because she wanted to do that more than see animals. I don't know if this is what motherhood would be like or if I'd still get to do and see the things I want to do and see.

• I am pretty horrified at the idea of having to be pregnant and give birth. I'd prefer to adopt or foster, but my husband would rather be childless than have one that "isn't his."

• I believe that mothers are mistreated in the US. My husband is a great person and is pretty responsible with our dog, but I still do most of the work of training, vet appointments, grooming, and all the things my husband doesn't think are fun. If had a kid, it seems really probable that I'd end up doing most of the caretaking and sacrificing. I picked my husband based on his compatibility for a child-free marriage, but he's not necessarily who I would have chosen to have kids with, and I am concerned I'd end up divorced. For example, he plays a lot of video games and isn't physically active, which is the exact opposite of the environment I'd want to raise a child in.

Reasons to have a kid:

• My friends seem to be really into their babies, and maybe if I had one it would make my life feel more purposeful. Right now I'm doing great in my career, hobbies, marriage, and social life...and I feel really, really bored with nothing to work "toward."

• FOMO. I've been wondering about this for years, so clearly there's some interest there.

• I think I'd be good at it and would probably raise a good person.

• My husband and my mom would be really excited, and I think it would make the holidays more fun if there was a kid around.

• I know there's no guarantee that kids will take care of you or being involved in your life when you're old, but I have a small and pretty uninvolved family and I don't want to spend my later years all by myself. If I had one (or two) kids then maybe I'd be able to create the kind of family that I don't currently have.

I feel like these are probably not great reasons to create a person and a life-long commitment to another person, but it's hard to weigh each factor and know what is important or realistic. I'd love to hear from other women who have struggled with or resolved this dilemma.

  July 9, 2024

4 years ago, I to ask women how they decided whether to have kids. I thought I'd share an update in case it helps anyone else.

I didn't end up having kids, and I feel pretty great about it! The response I received that was the most helpful to me said,

Trust me you'd FOMO a hell of a lot more if you have kids, like travel, money, freedom, sleep, your body, your life, etc... Unless you are 100% strongly yearning to have kids don't. You aren't missing anything except shit on your walls.

My friends now have lots of kids, ages 6 months-5 years, and the more I see of their experience, the more certain I feel that I made the right choice. Over the past 4 years, I've moved states, started multiple new jobs, traveled internationally, adopted a puppy, taken hundreds of naps, and lots of other things that would have been exponentially harder with children. I've also noticed that as I became mentally healthier leaving the pandemic, the uncertainty about having children eased as well.

I'm approaching 40 and I suppose it's not too late for me physically to have a baby if I really, really wanted one...but I am feeling very secure in my decision to move past this possibility. I don't have any lingering feelings of regret or uncertainty.

So thanks, women over 30!

Edit: someone asked me this over chat so I'll just share it with everyone. It wasn't so much of a conscious "no forever" decision as it was a bunch of smaller "not right now" decisions that eventually led me to the realization that the previous years were better without kids and I still didn't want to change anything. Before I came to this realization, I did make some moves toward being in a better place in case I did decide to have kids- I changed jobs to something more stable, I started living more healthily, and talked to my doctor about what would be involved if I did decide to get pregnant. But after making these changes, I still was leaning toward no until I realized one day that I was no longer on the fence.

Additional edit: please don't use this post as an excuse to shit on moms. I think they get enough of that from the rest of the world.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

LateNightCheesecake

I give people the kudos they deserve for taking on the very challenging job of parenting and raising productive and conscientious citizens, especially in a world where that is increasingly challenging with affordability, an overall dependence on technology, etc.

However, I can't say that any of the aspects of their lives, even the ones they claim to be rewarding, stir anything in me emotionally or inspire any level of envy or FOMO.

OOP

I went camping with a group that included 4 kids under 5 (well, they camped...I stayed at a nearby spa resort and came over during the day). Any FOMO I might have had died that weekend. I'm very happy for my friends that they find raising their children rewarding! And I am even more happy I made the choice I did for myself.

~

sexysourdoughfantasy

Hi! I’m also someone who was on the fence for a very long time, read countless posts and talked to as many older women as I could about their experiences, and decided to be childfree. It’s a freeing feeling to no longer have the constant internal debate.

May I ask if you have a compatible partner? I’m very happy with my life so far but I’m probably gonna be single for a long time, I’m worried about safety and loneliness quite a bit.

OOP

I never told my husband I was considering children, because I knew he would be really into the idea and I didn't want to get his hopes up for nothing. He signed up for a child-free marriage because I'm just that great, but I know that if it were up to him he'd have a few.

replying to a downvoted commenter about "shitting on moms"

I agree! I don't believe my choice is objectively better for everyone, and I hope that I didn't write it in a way that suggests it. I am hoping to update the people who gave me advice, and also help others that are unsure know that there can be a happy ending to either side of the decision. It would have helped me 4 years ago to know that I could reach a point of certainty on either side.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not OOP. OOP is

Original posed 1 month ago in

Hello all.

I work for an agricultural company where my weekly hours fluctuate between 60 and 120. While also working on getting a degree

My amazing bride is a home maker by choice.

All of this is okay. My issue comes from on occasion I am exhausted and will start to fall asleep or will purposefully go try to take a nap. Our entire marriage (11 years) she has woke me up or flat refused to let me fall asleep. I have tried talking to her numerous times and she is unable to articulate what the issue is.

Today I got off early after 10 straight 16 hour days. Took her on a lunch date then came home and decided to take a quick nap before working on school. With in minutes of laying down she has come into the room and has begun shaking me, turning on lights, and other obnoxious behavior.

How can I articulate to her my need for an occasional nap and how can I get her to articulate what her apparent un meet needs are so I do not go insane. Because it is at a point where I am feeling disrespected and unappreciated.

Edit: Thank all of you so much for the responses. I have tried to read all of them and reply. Was truly not expecting this kind of response over what I thought was a me not communicating clearly problem.

It is clear that there is more at play here and I will be working with my therapist to develop two plans. One (much to many’s dismay) to try and work with my bride one last time to address and fix the underlying issue and two a way out for if plan one fails.

Again thank you all for the kind words, the pointed yet truthful words, and even for some of the more extreme suggestions.

There truly are great people left on the planet.

Update posted 2 hrs. ago in

Update. The Monday after making the post she picked a fight over the yard not being mowed. After telling her I was done with the way she was behaving. She refused to accept this and said she would never leave.

Fast forward to Wednesday night I come home late again to find two vehicles with trailers loaded with everything we owned minus papers and her designer bags. When I walked in the house she and her family left. Thankfully the landlord had a couch that I could sleep on using my clothes as bedding because they took everything needed to live. Including yanking the curtains and curtain rods off the wall.

Thursday night I came home and she was back. This time she tried picking a fight by chasing me around the house and lunging at me. When I told her I would call the sheriff if she did not leave she began twisting and hitting her forearm screaming she was gonna hurt herself and tell the sheriffs I hurt her.

I left the house and called the sheriffs for help. They were able to provide me a way to leave as her family was on the way back.

Since then she has sent 2000 text messages flipping between wanting to come back and me being the worst man alive. My attorney filed for a petition for divorce this past Friday. She will be served this week and I am anticipating her to go postal.

If anything happens I’ll let all you great folks know. Thank each every one of you that commented on the original post. It was you who opened my eyes and helped me take the opportunity of her leaving to end this nightmare.

I've seen no one has mentioned antifur subs here.