My MIL (64 F) wants me (34 F) to change the name of my business (maiden name) to their surname. How to soften the blow?

I am not OP. That is who posted to

July 2nd, 2024

I (34F) am a cosmetic surgeon and I opened my practice last year. It’s been doing very well and I’m doing the planning now to open another branch at a neighboring state which is my in-laws’ state.

My husband comes from a well-to-do family (grandfather was wealthy) whereas my parents were immigrants and had to get their masters here again while already having a PhD from my home country. I barely saw my parents growing up so that they could house and feed us. My practice has both my mom and dad’s last names.

My husband is a great guy and his family is very nice but they value different things and have weird priorities. I wanted a small wedding in the US because I had another reception in my parent’s home country. MIL offered to pay for a larger wedding so that they can invite more of their friends but I stuck to the 50 people limit (which is a lot I wanted 30 at the beginning) because I wanted people my husband and I both knew AND loved to be there. I didn’t want my MIL’s stylist, her business partner or their family lawyer to attend. She eventually complied and kept meddling occasionally from then on. I never changed my last name but would unofficially be referred to Mrs husb’s last name. At work I still use my name to not confuse my staff and patients but also to honor my dad for everything he has done all my life.

Now that I’m opening another practice MIL wants me to use the family name as the brand. I told her it would create confusion and people might not know it was mine. I built a lot of trust, patronage and recognition using my brand so I don’t want to keep correcting people and to start from the bottom in a sense. It makes perfect sense and is the smart decision business-wise. There’s also some legal and extra paperwork to be done if I used a different name.

She said she is so proud of me and wants to show me off and also her family name is very famous around here so I might get more patients. She also joked that she should get some royalty for that too. Their surname is an old American name that back in the day used to do bad things (ie corruption and more). I do not want to use that name. I am south east asian, my staff are diverse and it’s something I am proud of since we do focus on ethnic and cultural esthetics instead of the generic white/european esthetics.

Im walking on eggshells here and i plan to let my husband deal with her. They always do a family dinner and I see her maybe once every 2 weeks and she always brings this up. Recently 2 of my SILs have been pestering me to do it too.

  July 3rd, 2024

It scared me how many people commented in my previous post. I read through most of the comments and rest assured, I am never ever going to change my brand, I just wanted a soft way to tell my MIL and SILs to back off. I didn’t mention this but my husband doesn’t know about any of this. So many assumed that he knew but just did nothing when it’s my fault that I never included the information that I never told him yet. To me, this is a trivial matter and I did not want to involve him since he is a professional too but in a different field and he’s handling a big project at the moment and I don’t want to pile this on him.

I respect and agree about those suggested dialogues on how to tell my MIL to stop bringing it up but I wanted a way to gently tell her I won’t be changing my brand as opposed to “no is a complete sentence” and while it is, I would have definitely said that to a rude stranger but not to a close family member. Call it the asian in me but I don’t want to be rude to her. My parents have returned to our home country to enjoy retirement so the only family I have here is my brother who lives in canada. My in-laws are my only family in the states and they are good people but sometimes their entitlement does show. I let my husband know and he was mad that I didn’t tell him earlier. He’s a lawyer and helped me build my business. He said that he never felt like less of a man when I didn’t take his name since “it wasn’t me that went through medschool and residency and hell if I did I know my weakass would tap out early”. LOL. He planned to facetime my MIL tonight to tell her to back off.

Something I feel guilty of saying in my last post was saying white/european esthetics are generic. I wrote that post quickly in an uber and didn’t properly think that through. My practice caters to all skin types, for all races and for each of their own very personal expectations of what they want to achieve. I owe a big apology to anyone who got offended.

And yes, I do have a prenup.

I am not the original poster. Please don't contact or comment on linked posts

DO NOT COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS. I am NOT OP. Original post by in . First posted here with last update here .

trigger warnings: possible transphobia, possible mental health issues, manipulation

NOTE: Because everyone will wonder, I am addressing this right now. While OOP's child identifies as non-binary, she uses "she/her" pronouns and presents as a female. This is why OOP refers to her as her daughter.

- Feb 7, 2024

My daughter came to me at 16 and said she was non-binary, but only sometimes. Like, some days she would feel more male than female and some days she would feel like neither. She wanted me to ask her every day what day it was and then refer to her as that pronoun of the day.

I told her that wasn’t going to fly. Growing up, I spent a lot of time on LJ (Livejournal) during the ol’ ‘bun-self’ and ‘zen-self’ ‘zir-self’ days. People who think this is new to this generation are fooling themselves. I told her that I would call her the pronoun she wanted, and do my best to remember it day to day, but she was going to have to tell me what she wanted for that day. I wasn’t going to play a daily guessing game.

This went on for about a week or two until she finally seemed to grow tired or bored and just said I could call her ‘her’. Though she still identifies as non-binary. Fine. (At least when it was going on she wanted ‘she, he, or they’ — I’m sorry but I couldn’t have done fox-self/fox-them with a straight face).

So that’s the pronoun story and looking back where I think things started to go off the handle. Here’s my real question.

My daughter is now 18, pregnant, and seems to have lost her god damned mind. Or I’m an asshole. You choose.

This year has been a struggle. She wanted to take a break year before she goes to community college, but can’t keep a job. Apparently, retail situations are too phobic against her non-binary state. (My child looks/acts/dresses exactly as a young adult female btw. When I ask how people are being phobic against her, she gets as prickly as a cactus so I really don’t know the details.). She’s been through 4 or 5 jobs this year, quit all of them. She won’t consider call centers that aren’t face to face because she doesn’t like to talk on phones, and is apparently looking for a remote job without any luck.

She’s been unemployed since Thanksgiving (she quit her last job on Black Friday, in fact) and I was on the verge of laying down the law, telling her she either needs to go to school this upcoming semester full time or get a full time job or move out with her friends.

But now she’s come to me and she’s 5 months pregnant. She’s very angry at me, says it’s my fault because:

• I didn’t put her on puberty-blocking hormones when she came to me 2 years ago.

• She believes I am in fact trying to ‘feminize her’ by getting her birth control. (The pill.). She’s been throwing her prescription away.

This is where I might be the asshole. I called her a little idiot. We don’t use that sort of language in my house, and I never call people names — especially my own child — but at that moment I could just see red.

The hormone thing is a non-issue IMO because this is the first time I ever heard of her wanting hormones. What was I supposed to do? Go back in time?

As for the birth control! It’s also the first time I’m hearing anything about this! There are non-pill options that don’t have estrogen. If that was her want, all she had to do was ask and I would have driven her to the doctor myself! Or she could have taken the car she has and done it. She has her own medical card, even! Though to be fair, I don’t know how she would have managed the co-pay without a job. I know for a fact her old high school gave out free condoms like candy because her friends were always giggling over flavored sample packs and even blew a few of them up like balloons and left them around the house one time. She had all the birth control she could ever want and used none of it.

It gets worse.

We’re way past the date of abortion (again, I would have helped her if this had been her wish! We live in an abortion protected state and can afford it!). She’s known she was pregnant since about 2 months and has come to think of her baby like a sibling. She expects me to raise it like it was mine. That this is my duty, in fact, because she says it is my refusal to accept her non-binary state that led to her being pregnant. So she was going to get a brother or sister and I was going to have another child.

You can say my language grew … sterner to versions of ‘Get your head out of your ass’ and ‘Congratulations, mommy, you have some hard decisions to make’, and I said I would absolutely not raise her baby for her.

She also refused to say who the father was. Now that I’ve cooled down, I’m really hoping she has a secret boyfriend. She does have some friends who were born male, but now also don’t identify that way. We didn’t even get there as I lost my mind when she said she thinks of her own baby as a sibling and wants me to raise it like my own child.

She’s locked herself in her room loudly wailing, I feel like crap warmed over. She’s been in there for 12 hours, and as she has an attached bathroom, probably won’t be coming out until she gets hungry. Considering it’s been half a day I think she has snacks stored.

I also don’t know where to go from here. Being pregnant sucks and messes with your head, so I’d like to blame that and the fear she must be feeling, but … I have the bad feeling I either raised a spoiled brat or someone with an emerging personality disorder.

So I need to know from people who aren’t emotionally involved, and maybe some people who are more in tune with this whole nonbinary thing than I am.

What do I do to help while also making her responsible for her own child? How can I help my daughter accept she must do basically the most feminine thing you can do (give birth and possibly breast-feed) while being sensitive that she’s non-binary? Am I just a big asshole here?

Typing all this out it feels like my daughter is lost in crazy town. I'm still not raising her baby but at what point do I drag a legal adult to the hospital?

Edit: You might disagree with my choices or wording, but I'm reporting people who call this bait. It's not.

Edit2: It's the middle of the night and she has decided to pack some of her clothes and stay with one of her friends. (One who I suspect is the baby daddy). Before she left she told me that she already called the police and let them know that she was 'leaving of her own free will and was not in danger'. Like I was going to report an 18 year old adult as a runaway or something? It was insulting.

I told her she needs to work out details if she wants to adopt with the father, and she was welcome back home when she had a plan in place.

It was short because I heard her on the way out. I think she just meant to leave without saying anything.

Thank you for your kind comments and advice, Reddit. I'm going to sleep.

Commenters agreed that OOP's child wasn't thinking straight:

Comment 1:

NTA.

I hate to say this, but; I sincerely hope OP's daughter chooses to give up this baby for adoption, because she's a confused hot ass mess. I don't blame OP for not wanting to step on the crazy train and raise this baby.

Comment 2:

Let’s be honest: If OP says yes to raising this child as her own, it will be the first of several. Daughter won’t take BC, so she will continue to have unprotected sex and get pregnant. She decided a couple years ago that she’s NB, expected her mother to understand that and know everything about it, and is now rewriting history to blame her mom for her now being pregnant. My head is swimming, and she’s not my daughter! There will be more babies.

Comment 3:

NB here OP.

You are SO NTA. I feel sympathy for your kid because they sound like they are so confused, maybe have body dysphoria and are now facing a life altering situation with no way out. They must feel so trapped. So they turn on you. It's easier for them to yell at and blame you instead of accepting responsibility. They are looking for a way out. We all keep changing and growing and your kid is SO young they seem to not know who they are yet and now they have to face looking after a baby when they know deep down they can't even really take care of themselves.

But my GOD the thing they did that was really stupid was chucking BC away. That is actually wild. Your kid needs to learn the difference between gender enforced stereotypes and actual biology. With biology it unfortunately doesn't matter what gender you are, the biology doesn't care, it still works the same. They NEED to learn that and differentiate.

Like I said, NTA OP. What a shit situation. I hope it gets better. I really do.

Comment 4:

NTA, your child is in fact a little idiot, with behavior that would be an absolute nightmare had you not been their parent. Also birth control isn’t a form of feminization, it’s a form of responsibility when you’re born in a body with a uterus and want to have sex that can result in pregnancy.

OOP's response:

Ugh, I wish I had those words when she hit me with that one. I sort of sputtered for a few minutes.

Comment 5:

Oh man, this is a can of worms within itself.

I wish I had better advice but just...I feel for you and the position you are stuck in.

The ONLY thing I can think of is, referring to breast feeding as "chest feeding" might make your NB daughter accept it more.

But like...there's a whole other level of things you need to get through first.

First and foremost, therapy, ASAP for your kid. Because she needs to get her head sorted out. Assuming you will just take this kid and raise it for her is...problematic to say the least. And she's got a deadline coming obviously, so therapy ASAP.

Also appointment for pregnancy checkups asap!! Has she had any? An unmonitored pregnancy can lead to complications

You might also be able to get her a social worker to go through pregnancy checkups, birthing extra.

Your kid needs a big sit down conversation about accountability for your own actions. And about how she might feel like part of YOUR actions lead to this, there was also many many choices she could have made to prevent this, that she chose not too. And at the end of the day, it was HER choices that led to this, not you.

OOP's response:

Thanks for this tip. I've written it down. The reason I mentioned she was NB because using 'breast' instead of 'chest' is the exact type of thing to send her into a pissy-fit when she's in the wrong mood. I know this may sound like a little thing, but she's always been... well, dramatic.

Because it's the internet and things are anonymous I'll admit that I am absolutely dreading pregnancy and afterbirth mood swings. Especially since it will all involve very womanly things in every intimate way. On top of the sheer stress of a newborn? Yes, I'm not looking forward to it at all and am already preparing to endure the storms.

Our conversation wasn't productive (it was an argument and she's still not out of her room) but I don't think she has had any prenatal care. That will change if I have anything to do with it.

Thanks again.

OOP commented with some of her concerns:

Yes. My worry and regret have so many places to go and a big part of it is for the baby.

This has been a bad day. :(

Responding to a comment regarding her child's entitled attitude:

Oh believe you me I have been kicking myself up and down on top of everything else. I don't know how she got to this point, but she's there now.

I wish I did have that time travel machine she clearly expects me to have.

She also clarified her overall views on the matter:

I'm on the fence. If she acted at all like she didn't have a gender (I believe that's what NB is) then I could take it more seriously. But she dresses as a woman. She puts on makeup, wears dresses during the summer, enjoys feminine things? We watch horse videos on youtube and squeal over the new foal videos. She's never been a tom boy, even.

But I was like, okay this isn't hurting her. I'll let her have this and express herself. Maybe it'll turn into something, maybe it won't. And after the first few weeks, she even dropped changing pronouns every day.

Her mentioning being NB faded and then started up hard again when high school ended and she started working retail.

I try to be understanding. Retail is hell and I'd personally only work it again if I was at my last resort. But recently it does seem to be an excuse not to work. And now she has a baby on the way.

This may not be the place for it, but I'm just worried she's regressing to a more child-like state. I don't know if she's struggling with being NB or if she's using NB as an excuse to shield herself from the world. Ugh. I guess the internet won't know, but I'm just flat out worried.

AITAH has no consensus bot but the comments were largely NTA.

- Feb 17, 2024

Hi,

This is an update to this post (Long story short my 18 year old NB daughter wanted me to raise her baby, and she told me she thinks the baby as her sibling. We had a blow-out, she locked herself in her room for most of a day, and then took off with her friends/her lover)

So this happened a few days ago but I didn’t update because I needed to get my head around it. It still doesn’t make sense.

Daughter finally unblocked me. She and the person who got her pregnant wanted to talk to me at a public place. We chose iHop.

Although I suspected I knew who her lover was, I was disappointed to find out because they have been a part of my daughter’s friend group since high school and was the only one I ever had a problem with and kicked out of my house.

They are trans now but two years ago the friend group was watching a movie in the living room, and every time I’d pass by, he (he was a he then) would lock eyes with me and make really obnoxious, loud, orgasm sounds like that scene in Harry Met Sally. I told him to knock it off and grew sterner when he did it again.

Then when I was in the kitchen, he somehow snuck up behind me and was miming jack-off movements with his hand. I turned around and caught him at it. He was still fully clothed, but it was startling and freaky. I kicked him out.

So now I’ll just call them Sperm-donor because that’s what they are.

I’m still calling my daughter ‘my daughter’ and ‘she’ because I still haven’t been told not to by her otherwise. So get off my case on that.

Anyway, the iHop meeting was a shit-show. Sperm-donor sat with my daughter and went on the attack. Sperm-donor’s points were:

• I was poisoning my daughter by “making” her take birth control. (I only helped her get the prescription and would have done everything I could if I knew she didn’t want to take the pill. There are other methods!)

• It will take years to “fix” my daughter after all I did. (Not giving her hormones even though I had no idea that was what she wanted. She dropped even wanting to change her pronouns after a few weeks.)

• Abortion is a sin and I am a monster for suggesting it. (It’s past the date anyway.)

• I am further abusing her by not taking care of the baby while she fixes herself. (I guess they meant it as a temp situation which was also new to me.)

So apparently even though I’m an abusive monster, a bad mother, and so on, I’m even worse for not taking in their baby. At least no one suggested that I raise it like my daughter’s sister anymore. That might have been my daughter’s thought on it.

Sperm-donor did most of the talking while my daughter just sat and glared at me, nodding along.

It was kind of a whirlwind, Sperm-donor pounded the table a few times, and even the waiter knew not to bother us after drinks, lol. I’m surprised we weren’t asked to leave.

There was a lot said, mostly by the sperm-donor who really seemed to be steering the ship. I asked why sperm-donor couldn’t take care of the baby and sperm-donor said their parents were even worse than me. I guess my daughter and sperm-donor taking care of the child they created is out of the question.

I told them that I would not be raising their baby for them and that adoption is the best bet. They said that if I don’t agree to raise it, they’ll make sure I’ll never see the baby ever.

I won’t raise their child for them. So that’s that, I guess.

I feel so many flavors of worried and angry and then worried all over again. I’ve been around the block and it’s never a great sign when the person you’re with makes an enemy of your family. That’s what sperm-donor has done by painting me as an abuser and failed mother who also won’t take in their baby. Sounds like sperm-donor has cut themselves off from their own family too. So I’m worried my daughter is in a very controlling relationship with someone who convinced her to stop birth control because they think hormones are too feminizing somehow and that she needs to be “fixed”. But they still want me to raise their baby.

I’m angry that my daughter can just hear this crap and nod along like, yeah, that makes total sense. She is not stupid. I think she’s love blinded.

I’m sad and worried for the baby. A couple commenters suggested I wanted nothing to do with the baby because I wouldn’t agree to raise it as my own. No, in a perfect world, I would want a normal grandmotherly relationship. Or at least know that the child is safe and has been adopted into a loving family.

I don’t care what my daughter does with her gender, or her body as long as she doesn’t hurt herself. I want her to be in a happy relationship with someone who values her for who she is. Sperm-donor kept using the word ‘fix’ which I see as another terrible sign.

It’s bad all around. My house is empty. It feels like my adult daughter has run off to join up with some weird church/cult thing who tells her that up is down. That not using birth control and not getting an abortion and then expecting others to take care of the child is all a-okay. Oh and that she’s a problem and needs to be “fixed”.

I texted her and said I would be there for her, but sperm-donor was still not welcome in the house. I think I’m blocked again.

She’s a legal adult. I’m not sure what else I can do at this point? In my low points, part of me thinks maybe I should agree to take the baby and then immediately make sure it’s adopted into a loving home. But I get the feeling that sperm-donor won’t make that easy, and right now my daughter does what he says. Also I’m not sure if that plan is even possible. It sounds Hollywood.

I have an appointment to speak with a councilor, but the soonest I could get is April. Some of my friends think I should take the baby in either to get them away from the parents or because they think it’s my duty, or both.

The only silver lining in this was that they both seemed sober. I don’t think there’s drugs involved.

Am I reading this wrong? Am I the asshole here?

Commenters agreed that sperm donor's comments made no sense, and that OOP's child was probably stuck in an abusive relationship:

Comment 1:

For your safety, I would change the locks and put up camera, Sperm-donor seems unhinged. I’m a firm believer in better safe than sorry.

Comment 2:

This baby will be used as a pawn in his never ending psycho drama. If they do not and cannot raise their baby, the best solution is adoption. Otherwise, the father will make your life a living hell.

NTA

OOP's response:

I couldn't figure out a polite way of saying this, but yes. That is my suspicion if I take in their baby. Sperm-donor implied it would be temporary while earlier my daughter said it would be permanent. I think sperm-donor will refuse to sign over paperwork when the time comes or try to leverage it in some way.

Comment 3:

NTA also it sounds like your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this person. Sorry your daughter has been brain washed by this crazy person. I would definitely contact this sperm donors family and if they seem sane warn them about how crazy both of spoke to you.

OOP's response:

That is my fear, and not a bad idea to contact sperm-donor's parents. This has all happened so far, I feel like I'm in shock and I'm very worried.

Comment 4:

Pretty wild that a trans person is saying abortion is a sin. None of this is anything like what you're going to hear from any healthy LGBT community, who are quite careful to make sure not to support people in delusional or antisocial behavior. Definitely get therapy, sounds like your kid has some serious mental health problems if they're being influenced by whatever wackos put these ideas into their head. You're going to need support in coping with this madness. NTA by a country mile. You are in no way "abusing" your kid by refusing to take responsibility for their bad choices.

OOP's response:

Thank you and yes, I don't want to minimize my daughter's role in it but the hard anti-abortion thing surprised me too. A lot of what they said contradicted itself. It felt like I was sitting across from two people who were in their own wacko bubble.

I know it's not a LGBT thing. I wish someone from their community would knock some sense into them, if its even possible at this point.

OOP left an update in a comment:

I logged in and received a large amount of requests for an update. Unfortunately I do not have one. I have not seen or heard from my daughter since the last meeting, and I believe she has changed her phone number.

Our community isn't a large one and I have heard through the grapevine she is staying with the Sperm Donor in one of the homeless camps out in the woods. As this is a haven for drugs and sex trafficking, this is a further concern. From what I've heard, she is pregnant.

Myself and a few friends and family members have driven through the camp area a few times on the lookout for her, but it's very large and there aren't exactly marked roads. Also, recently other people have been shot at while walking their dogs around there, or riding ATVs, so every time we go, it's a risk.

So that's it. I'm stuck hoping she's safe and under some kind of shelter (there are a lot of plywood houses and broken down RVs out there) and waiting to hear news when she has the baby. Yes, CPS and the local police are aware of my concerns.

I'm worried the child will be born addicted to drugs because I don't know anyone who doesn't live out there who isn't a methhead.

Thanks for your concern, all. I'm unsure what I'll do when the baby is born. I might have to take in the baby after all just to make sure it doesn't live in that camp, and it may make me the asshole... but I am not looking forward to the hard work and drama that will come with it.

- Jul 08, 2024

I posted another update in the comments awhile back. It's on my account. Basically my pregnant daughter shut me out of her life completely and rumor had it she was living in a homeless camp with her weirdo lover out in the woods. It's a huge place and me and friends searched a few times but weren't able to find her. It's also dangerous because there aren't laws out there and the homeless shoot at ATV riders and hikers and send dogs after people who come too close to what they consider their territory. To be clear I don't think my daughter was part of that group, the camp is huge and full of meth addicts, sex traffickers, and drug labs. Anyway, the full story is in my account if you care.

I did contact Sperm Donor's parents and they have all but disowned him after very much the same disturbing behavior I outlined earlier, only geared toward their younger siblings. So that sucks.

Back to the new news:

All this shook out a couple weeks ago, but I hesitated to post because of my own emotions and the fact I know Reddit will be all over my ass for the deep anger, shame, and disappointment I have for my daughter.

I came home from grocery shopping to find a strange pregnant woman at my door. That woman used to be my daughter, but had changed so much she was like a stranger. She chatters constantly so you can’t get a word in, she has several small face tattoos and, forgive me for saying this, looks like she has aged 20 years. She had been living rough.

She was angry I “locked her out” (I changed the locks after she left) and basically expected to move back into her old room with no problem, like it was just another day from back in the winter when she lived here. Of course I wasn’t going to turn her away so I guess in a way she was right.

She was living in the homeless camp with the Sperm Donor, and I insisted she take a shower because it looked like she hadn’t since leaving. She also stank bad.

She had no shame about blocking my number or what she put me through by disappearing. All she wanted to talk about was the grand fate that she and Sperm Donor are building. That they’re building a community of New People, and she went on and on and on without mentioning the baby once. I don’t know how anyone can stand them, but Sperm Donor has multiple partners and my daughter is one of them and is perfectly happy being his brood mare. The brood mare is my verbiage. Hers is much more... royal. Frankly, based on what she over-shared, Sperm Donor seems like a complete sex fiend.

Finally I broke in and asked and she said she had been to the doctor regularly (that was a lie, found out later) and all is well with the baby.

At this point I knew she had to be on drugs. If she was awake, she was talking, and none of what she said had an end or a point. Also, a lot was from crazy-town.

What I got from her was that, again, she and several other ladies (and men?! Somehow?!) were to carry the next generation of New People. Yes, the men. YES biological men. Sperm Donor was sort of the middle of the wheel with the spokes, was how she described it. I've met him before and I'm surprised he was able to get one girlfriend much less whatever grouping is going on now.

Anyway, sometimes she said she wanted to keep the baby (though she wouldn't tell me a plan to take care of and house it, I think she expected to stay with me), and sometimes she wanted to adopt it out, but not for the good of the baby but to spread the New People. This part is going to upset the internet but the New People are apparently without gender expectations and that was why she didn't know the baby's gender yet. Oh yeah, and also some of the Wheel (her group) were empathic and they could communicate their feelings through the other world.

As a houseguest, she was the absolute worst. It was like she had gone feral out in the camp and clean up after herself to the point where she mostly did not even flush the toilet after using it. She ate everything, which was to expected, but never cleaned up after herself and kept asking--asking is too mild of a word, she demanded-- for me to take her out to restaurants.

I did a couple of times because I missed her and was trying to make a connection but then once afterward took her to the store to get baby supplies, and she was weirdly detached? Sort of picked up the first thing she saw on the shelf and all the while it was yak yak yak about her true family of New People and their grand fate. Anyway, I finally got out of her that she expected the baby in mid-July (which put her outside the time frame she originally gave me. I had it on my calendar! I was obsessed with the possible due date because I didn't know if she was find a baby on my doorstep or what.) And yes she was under the care of a doctor. Both lies.

Getting her to focus on one subject was impossible. She would only stop talking long enough to take a breath and only listen long enough to you to stop for your own before she'd launch into a new thing, usually around Sperm Donor, who she loved but was nowhere in sight and was chilling back at the camp with the rest of his breeding stock, or whatever.

Basically I was waiting for her to come down off whatever high she was on, when she went into full blown labor.

It was a complete shit show. She was having pains but her water hadn't broken yet. At the hospital it came out that she had not been to the doctor once for the baby (there are programs in our state that cover pregnancies!), so that put her at high risk so she was admitted immediately. That's when the switch flipped and she became hateful against nurses and doctors. She said the worst things and they were absolute saints in return. She also had, like, delusions of grandeur and told them she was their queen and accused them of trying to punish her. It was so wild. I can't even describe the monster she became. So, so, so hateful. Racist, vicious, and the worst things you can say to people, she said them. She wasn't in hard labor yet so it wasn't entirely the pain.

I pulled one nurse aside and told her where she had been living and that I suspected drugs though I hadn't caught her using yet. They were so professional and gave her pain killers that helped her "mood" (Not gonna lie, they doped her up because she was acting wild).

Imagine my surprise when her bloodwork came out clean!

I wasn't there for the birth because she didn't want me in the room with her (and heaven help me I was a little relieved because I was ashamed of her behavior), but I did talk to a social worker on staff to let them know everything I did. The lady was very nice but couldn't speculate officially on my daughter's mental state. I said she had to be bipolar or manic or something because her behavior was not normal, but she asked if she had threatened to kill herself or harm the baby and she hadn't. They can't step in until there's a threat.

Miraculously, the child was born at a good weight and healthy (and not addicted!). I don't want to give too much info on them because the internet is forever and one day they may search for their own past.

My daughter lucked out big time and had a normal delivery as things went. She didn't give Sperm Donor's name out as the father (though I did to the social worker, they can't be put on the birth certificate on my word). She up and left her baby that evening without officially checking out, without saying goodbye to me or her newborn. Because the hospital is a safe surrender point, she won't be charged for abandonment. CPS asked if I wanted to take the child and though it tore me up, I said no. There are a lot of reasons for why. A big one is I don't want to be held hostage to my daughter's whims, and especially Sperm Donor. I don't want to be on the hook for more children which are likely coming. Also look at my daughter. I did my best and she still turned out this way. Maybe I shouldn't try again.

I know getting a new family is almost the best thing that could have happened for the baby even with problems with the foster system, it has to be better than the camp. But I feel like dogshit about it even now. I also suspect they'll have a sibling soon as my daughter can arrange it.

I know my daughter is not well. I know she's in a cult and probably in danger and also probably an abuser herself, based on the stories she casually dropped about other members. She is also a selfish liar and it is luck or the grace of God or what-have-you that her baby was born healthy. She is rolling the dice on her life and the life of her future children. She's sick and under a sex fiend's control and now thinks she has magic-thought powers, but she has some responsibility in this, too. All the rest of the transgender stuff with her lover, and if she is NB or not from the past doesn't matter. She's an adult and is making some bad choices.

It's hard for me to type out, but the way she treated the hospital staff was so cruel (seriously I had to use a thesaurus to describe it because I can't even describe fully how bad it was) it showed me that whatever else, she thinks other people are below her. It's more than the mania. I'm just there to serve her, whenever she sees fit. She knew she would be giving birth soon, so she came home and expected me to take care of her. I did, of course, because she was 9 months pregnant. And the second she didn't have any more need of me, or the baby she had just given birth to, it was easy to take off again. I listened to her for days and she expressed no feelings of hope for the baby other than a vehicle to spread their movement. No worry about their future life (and no more comments on me raising them as a sibling). She made the choice to leave and go back to Sperm Donor's Harem or "wheel" or whatever.

Sick or not, I'm ashamed to have raised someone with these kinds of values. Mentally ill people aren't bad people, but she has gone beyond merely bad choices.

I haven't totally written her off and she may come back to sanity, but since all indications are that I'm blocked again, I'm going to think long and hard about boundaries and possibly moving. I'm worried about one day finding a bunch of cultly weirdos on my porch.

So that's it. I don't know what to do. It's not like I have the resources to pay someone to deprogram my daughter, and that sounds very Hollywood. I need a realistic goal. It's more than just a cult. She needs a check up from the neck up and I don't have the legal standing to do anything. At least the baby is safe. That's the one bright spot.

Thoughts are welcome and, forgive me, any realistic suggestions, or just tell me if I'm way off base and I'm the asshole here. This has been a hell of a year and such a spiral. A year ago I had a somewhat of a slacker teenager under my roof. Now all of this.

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January 31, 2024

My fiancé (M21, Alex) & I (F22) have been together 6 years, getting married this year. I never cared much about my last name but after some recent family events realized I want to keep mine. Alex doesn’t mind, and chose to change his last name so we'd match. Upon finding out, Alex's parents (Lisa and Luke) yelled at him. Lisa cussed him out, so my parents let him stay with us for the last week of winter break (we were home on break from college and live a few miles apart).

Lisa and Luke say Alex is destroying & disowning his family, publicly humiliating them, and say I'm stripping him of his manhood. They told us we're unbiblical, and that women should submit. To them it’s political too - they said the queer community is the reason we're “susceptible” to this, transgender people are to blame, and “America is in its downfall; this is just another sign.”

Alex has gotten plenty of texts from Lisa, calling him hateful, cruel, and cold, asking how he can let her suffer. The meetings Alex had with his parents went poorly - they told him they wanted to see him and not talk about the name, but then did. One meeting involved both sets of parents - Lisa and Luke talked 90% of the time before getting up and leaving. They're mad Alex stayed with us and said even if we go with his name, they'd resent us and my family for supporting us.

Lisa threatened to cut Alex off, and says he won't get another penny (they had planned to contribute to our wedding, stating there were no strings attached, and they fund his college apartment). Lisa said this is the worst thing to happen to her since losing her first baby, and that it's worse than if Alex had gotten me pregnant, killed someone drunk driving, or was gay. She's telling Alex that his grandparents will have to move to assisted living from heartbreak, and Luke keeps telling Alex his choice is hurting people. Their main reason seems to be that it is tradition and that they want the last name carried on (it's not an uncommon last name).

I also learned that Lisa borderline tried to talk Alex out of proposing. Alex asked me to marry him anyway, and Lisa called my mom in the midst of the engagement excitement to share her disapproval. They said that they get a say until Alex is married, and that's when they'll leave us be.

Lisa and Luke keep texting Alex and my parents, but I have never gotten anything. They openly dislike me now, badmouthing me whether I'm there or not. I've decided my relationship with Lisa and Luke is over (it was rocky before as they tried to push their religion onto me numerous times). Alex is deciding how much more he can give. He's hasn't taken a harsh tone or spoken rudely to his parents, but is tired.

Now his parents say if Alex won't move back home, their financial support ends. They say the family won't come to the wedding, and one of his siblings actually has left the wedding party.

Obviously I have decided to stay mostly away from Lisa and Luke now, but they are Alex's family. With the wedding still coming up, we're unsure how to move forward.

TL;DR: My male fiancé is taking my last name. His parents are freaking out because I'm the woman and should take his. The verbal and emotional abuse are out of control, and they're threatening not to attend the wedding.

EDIT TO ADD: Lisa and Luke's financial support is not necessary, and the wedding will proceed with or without it. Just thought it relevant to point out that the money that was offered "no strings attached," clearly does have strings. We know we are young, and are still getting married, after spending six years together. Postponing the wedding isn't something we're willing to do.

Relevant Comments:

When asked if ILs would accept both last names, OOP says:

Apparently not, his parents said that would make no difference. Since we aren't wild about using both anyway, figure may as well not.

luminous-fabric:

The only people that should be at your wedding are people that want to celebrate your relationship. Sounds like they don't!

potenttechnicality:

It sounds like he has really good reasons for not wanting to be associated with that last name any longer.

Yes, it's not a traditional thing and people will look at him funny for it. They can just fuck right off. If you're happy and he's happy that's all that matters.

VanillaCookieMonster:

Stop talking about it until after the wedding.

And for the rest of your life stop giving these people details about your lives. Have fiance agree to grey-rocking them going forward or there will be arguments about baby names and other stuff foing forward.

I don't even understand the arguments about baby names. The first anyone knew my naby's name was in our birth announcement.

evileen99:

"We will miss you."

Any other response will only empower them to meddle more in the future.

queerbychoice:

Your future in-laws are absurdly overgrown toddlers. For both your sakes, I hope they go no contact with both of you forever, because the loss of their financial support will be a very worthwhile price to pay for freedom from their controlling nonsense.

But if, as seems highly likely, they refuse to leave you alone forever, you're going to need to make sure your fiancé can develop some very strong boundaries. I think you two should sign up for a little premarital counseling before you do much more wedding planning, because your circumstances make it extra important to make sure you're both prepared to handle your future together.

OOP:

The price is most certainly worth the freedom. We're looking into premarital counseling - thank you!

July 7, 2024 (5 months later)

Alex and I got married last month, and everything was absolutely beautiful! Since my original post:

After more months of emotional and verbal abuse, Alex made the difficult decision that his parents were no longer welcome at our wedding. He explained that he couldn't trust them to respect his boundaries, respect us at all, or respect what the event was about. As expected, they freaked out, asking if he was "trapped and needed help," saying everything had become about me (OP), and telling him he'd been isolated from everyone he loves. We're not sure what story they told Alex's extended family... Alex reached out to everyone to explain what had been going on, but every response he received was more disgust toward his name choice, refusal of wedding invitations, and saying he needed to apologize/"grovel" and fix the family.

Most of Lisa's family were the ones talking the most about how dishonorable he was being and how he was breaking apart the family (interesting seeing none of them share Lisa and Luke's last name, Luke's family does). Luckily, only one invitation was returned with nasty notes inside, but the rest of the digital responses took Lisa and Luke's side, berated Alex for doing this near the anniversary of the death of Lisa's first child, and called him cruel and hateful.

(For context, Lisa's first child passed away a few days after birth, over 25 years ago. Alex says there has never been any remembrance that he knows of, and they do nothing on the anniversary (he doesn't even know the date of the anniversary). Lisa and Luke explained what happened once when he was young, and never mentioned anything again. We're unsure why it's all coming back up now, after presenting as generally unimportant his whole life. Apparently, this drama being 4 months from the anniversary was disrespectful.)

His sister Alice also went off the rails. After "checking in" to see how Alex was doing, Alice got angry that he wanted to discuss things over text instead of on the phone. It became obvious that she wanted him on the phone to berate him, because she ranted about how he was "steamrolling" their parents, and wasn't really an adult because he wasn't married yet. She said she had encouraged Lisa and Luke to cut him off long ago, and that I (OP) wasn't acting like family since I stopped letting her follow my Instagram account (this was after she'd dropped out as a bridesmaid and made it clear she didn't support our marriage. I decided not everyone gets full access to my life). As his only sibling, it was devastating for Alex to watch Alice spiral into fully taking their parents side, after initially leading him to believe she had his back and being supportive. After saying not to expect her and Alex's BIL at the wedding, there's been no further contact since Alice refuses to speak to him unless he'll talk on the phone. At this point, he won't do any phone calls as we'd rather have record of everything that goes down.

Many people tried to talk to Lisa and Luke (my own parents, mutual friends, etc) to encourage them to choose relationship, and explain the damage they were causing wasn't worth the loss they'd endure. It seemed to have no effect.

Alex was quick to become no longer financially dependent on his parents. We've changed his phone plan, reclaimed all his bills from Lisa and Luke, fully moved him out, and finished college. We're not sure if they attended graduation - they texted Alex the day before to say they'd be there, but then turned off their location services. Graduation day was stressful and nerve-wracking, with Alex not knowing if they'd make a scene or corner him. He left as soon as he walked across the stage, and made it to his car with no interactions.

Since then, as most Redditors suggested, we've been nearly no contact with Lisa and Luke. We spent the first six weeks of summer finishing wedding details, and our day last month was gorgeous. Alex received no communication between graduation and the wedding, and has no plans to continue their relationship without an apology. Lisa and Luke did not show up to the wedding, or say anything day of. The only recent change is Lisa unfollowing and unfriending both of us and my family on all social media.

For me, my in-law relationships are basically over, apology or not. Learning they'd never supported our engagement, ignoring my existence, and hating me because of my political and religious beliefs is enough for me not to keep contact.

Thank you, Redditors, for your kind help and good wishes. Our day was truly perfect and straight out of a fairytale, and we're looking forward to the next chapter of our lives, with hopefully less drama!

TL;DR: Parents were uninvited to the wedding. Sister flipped a switch. Currently no contact with all. Wedding day was beautiful and not dramatic.

Relevant Comments:

matou98:

Wow... just wow.

How can a whole family implode over something as ridiculous as a last name change? Had I read the text without seeing it being about that, I'd thought the young man at least had molested animals or children. Jeez

DaxxyDreams:

That’s because it’s not about the last name. The last name was the straw that broke the camel’s back. In the original post, OP said the in laws already didn’t like her. There is way more going on here than reported.

Quirky_Movie:

It sounds like they had total control over him and objected to losing the right to make his choices.

Totally normal in small amounts when a kid reaches this stage of life, but for a certain kind of family, the can't let the baby grow up without severing everything.

cheesusismygod:

Please be aware that if you are choosing to have children, they might come at yall full force again. Be prepared.

tangerinedreamcake:

My friend's sister went through something similar. The couple had entertained the idea of creating a new family name and the grooms mom flipped out. Threatened to remove financial support (they didn't need it) and suddenly the racism came out after 10 years of holding it in (suddenly the brides family were "those people" aka not white). It was a beautiful ceremony, the mom didn't show up and now she has to live with never seeing her only son.

The irony is that the couple on their own decided that they weren't going to change it a few days before the wedding but by then the groom went no contact due to the blatant disrespect and racism hurled at his wife's family.

jacksonlove3:

Congratulations and I’m happy your wedding (and his graduation) went off without a hitch! I’m proud that he chose to stick to his wants rather than let his family bully him into submission! Stay no contact! Your lives will be more peaceful. Suggest some therapy for him if he’s struggling with all this though. There’s a lot of emotional issues that come with cutting family out. Best wishes to you both!

throwawtphone:

I dont understand why anyone male or female changes their name in the first place in the modern era, huge pain in the ass to do so especially with professional licenses, college records, ss, passports, and so on.

...

But yeah, his family is going overboard, by a lot. I can see why he would change his name....disassociate from the wackadoodles.

Sorry for the family strife, but congratulations on the marriage.

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See Rule 7.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in and and his profile

1 updates - Medium-long

Trigger Warnings - Adoption, Family Conflict, Emotional Distress, Potential Parental Alienation.

- 10th July 2024

-13th July 2024

-15th July 2024

WIBTA to tell my little brother he's adopted without our parent's consent? - 10th July 2024

I am 26 years old, I don’t live with my parents but had a great relationship with them. As well as with my little brother “Moses”. Moses doesn’t have a great relationship with our parents. He’s never really had a great relationship with them. I don’t fully understand why, but from what I can gather from my research adopted children (even those who were too young to remember) can still have mental blocks and trauma which prevents them from forming full relationships with their adoptive parents.

Moses is 13 years old and we’re so close he spends most of his weekends at my house. His school breaks up for summer in a week and he’s already told me he wants to spend the first fortnight with me at my house, something our parents don’t care about. When he’s home it’s like constant fighting between them. I’m sure some of it is his teenage hormones and possibly some of it is what I spoke about before.

I was almost 15 when Moses came to live with us. And I remember our parents explaining to me why it was important to keep the adoption a secret. Didn’t want him to feel different, didn’t want him bullied, etc. at the time it seemed sensible. So I agreed to keep it a secret. I feel really regretful that I did.

Moses talks to me about feeling different from the rest of the family. And I would reply with things like “No, it’s normal to feel that way when you’re young”, etc. which looking back I can recognise as almost gaslighting him. Something I feel truly guilty about.

I never really questioned it, not until about 2 years ago. Then I started to unpack it in my mind, but if I am completely honest I think I felt guilty and so I repressed it. But it just kept coming back up. I did some research into adoption and the trauma it can give children, like I said even those who can’t even remember being adopted. I have no expertise in psychology, and don’t claim to be an expert but this is just what I have gathered from my own research.

On one hand, telling him could make his relationship with our parents even worse than it is. On the other, I feel like it can’t be hidden from him forever, not successfully. I want to fool myself into thinking it could make their relationship better, but I don’t see how it could. It would give him the satisfaction in knowing he isn’t crazy for feeling different.

The more I thought about it, the more I start to resent my parents for forcing me into this role of lying to Moses. I started to avoid contact with them, to the point where they noticed. I spoke to them about how I felt and they told me I can’t tell Moses and it will make everything worse for him. They’ve said if I tell him they will go NC with me and make it incredibly difficult for me to have contact with Moses.

Is telling him the right thing to do? Or am I just being selfish? I just feel like I’m lying all the time now.

Top Comments

MercuryAlipes (Me)



I would say YWNBTA and your parents are HUGE AHs for forcing you into this position where you must lie to your brother.

Be aware though, telling him could have huge consequences on your relationship with him, his with your parents and yours with your parents.

That’s not me saying don’t do it. But if you choose to be prepared.

You are in an incredibly tough position, and I do not envy you in the slightest OP.

big-as-a-mountain - responding to MercuryAlipes



So I was going to make a post from the perspective of an adopted person with all kinds of reasons why your parents are wrong, but you’ve already done the research and this person already said everything (edit: most of, as it turns out) I really wanted to get across.

Thanks for being interested enough to research and for wanting to do right by your brother. If he reacts badly, remind yourself that this is a child finding out he has been lied to his whole life, emphasize that the whole reason you are telling him is because he really is your brother, and try to be there for him anyway. There’s just as much of a chance that he’ll see that already, and appreciate you more for being the one person to tell him the truth.

Basing a relationship on lies is never the right thing to do, and the person being lied to always has the right to the truth. Ripping the band-aid off and telling them is almost always the kinder option.

Edit: and emphasize that his parents’ making a poor choice doesn’t make them not his parents. Short version (more for people who haven’t researched on their own) is that adopted kids are a lot more likely to deal with those feelings. This includes kids who don’t know they are adopted. “Genetic mirroring” is real and we recognize (the lack of) it, even if only on a subconscious level. Knowing the truth doesn’t cause it, but it does allow us to deal with it in a healthy way. That was longer than I thought, sorry.

Edit again: but tell your parents what you are about to do and why; they deserve to not be blindsided by this whatever else they’ve done, and he deserves to hear it from them if they’re willing. Okay, I’m done.

dfjdejulio

Before you make a move, ask them when (not if) they'll tell him.

Because here's the thing from my perspective, as someone who was adopted myself.

This shit is important to know medically.

If the doctor says "any history of colon cancer in your family?", you need to be able to give an accurate answer. Saying "I don't know, I'm adopted" will get you better medical care than an inaccurate answer would.

On top of that, genetic testing continues to get more and more common, so it's very likely the truth will come out on its own anyway. They can either do it their way or have it done for them.

I wouldn't make a move until explaining all that to the parents.

Classic-Advance5115 (OOP) responding to dfjdejulio

They have no plans to ever tell him.

Corpuscular_Ocelot

Can you get them to agree to therapy for him?

If so, although the therapist can not give you confidential info, you can let them know and see if they have advice.

The biggest issue is if you tell him now, your parents may cut you off from him and then he has to process it all w/o any help or support.

Classic-Advance5115 (OOP) responding to Corpuscular_Ocelot

My parents don't "believe" in therapy, or mental health.

Beginning_Region9452

This may be adding fuel to the fire, and I don't want to open a can of worms, but given your parents' refusal to tell Moses about his adoption. Is it possible that you may also have been adopted and are unaware?

DJsspinontheworld

Aren't your parents worried that someone else will tell him? Surely other friends, neighbors, relatives know and could let it slip that he is adopted? What do other family members say about your parents not telling him? I am no expert on adoption, but all the people I know who have adopted kids were upfront about it. He's bound to find out some day, especially if he decides one day he wants to do a 23 and me kind of test, etc.! How are they going to explain it to him then that they kept his adoption a secret? However, it's not your place to tell him, at least not right now while he is a minor! Your parents are the AHs!

Classic-Advance5115 (OOP) responding to DJsspinontheworld

As far as I'm aware, no one outside the family knows he's adopted. My grandparents obviously must know, but it has literally never been discussed by them to me at least.

Buckupbuttercup1 responding to Classic-Advance5115 (OOP)

How? Did she fake a pregnancy and not show anyone a photo until a couple years later? What about baby photos of him? Does he wonder why your parents don't have any?(or at least any that imclude them) it's messed up and they will cause all kinds of trust issues when he funds out(he will find out) and he will be mad at you as well. It's a catch 22 either way for you. Poor kid,a life of lies

Classic-Advance5115 (OOP) responding to Buckupbuttercup1

It's not something they've told anyone about, my parents don't really have any close friends and aren't close with neighbours so I don't think they would have noticed, but even if they did they've moved houses several times since he was adopted. Genuinely don't think anyone would have noticed.

Our parents don't really have baby photos of either of us, and the photos they do have they don't really get out to show us ever. My mum has kept my hair from my first hair cut though, which I think is weird but not relevant.

MercuryAlipes responding to Classic-Advance5115 (OOP)

“Our parents don't really have baby photos of either of us, and the photos they do have they don't really get out to show us ever.”

OP, are you sure you’re not also adopted?

I told my brother he's adopted, but I don't know if I did the right thing. -13th July 2024

For full context you can read the other post on my profile, but essentially my parents adopted my brother Moses when he was 1. They've kept it secret from him, I was about 15 at the time so I obviously knew. But I was young, and dumb and I just agreed to keep it secret also. They had no plans on telling him, ever. This wasn't a "they're waiting for the right moment" type thing, they just didn't want him to know. I feel deep regret that I waited for this long to even tell him.

Before telling him I got in contact with my friend who is a social worker, I asked him if my brother decided to come live with me against my parents wishes what would social services do? He told me because Moses was at an awkward age of 13 it would be a toss up on whether they would listen to my brother and allow him to stay or whether they would force him to move back with our parents. I was advised that they have parental responsibility, so if they really pushed he would be moved back. But If the social worker felt he was in any way unsafe (for example Moses saying he would run away again if brought back home) they would be likely to leave him living with me temporarily.

I decided to give my parents a final chance, tell him the truth or I will. They told me that in no uncertain terms will they ever tell him he's adopted. And if I do they will go NC with me. I said I would rather they tell him, I don't want to be the one to tell him but I believe he has a right to know.

They outright refused.

Moses normally walks home from school, so instead yesterday I went to pick him up. I told him we needed to talk. I said that mum and dad weren't going to like that I tell him this, but I believed he had a right to know. I explained the whole thing to him. How he was adopted when he was around 1 and a half. How I didn't know much about his background or where he was before he lived with us. I told him I was 15 at the time, and how mum and dad told me it would be best for you not to know. How I stupidly believed them.

I said if he was angry at me I understood, I said I would take him home if he wanted. He was clearly in shock, but he asked to come to my house. He didn't speak at all on the drive home. When we got to my place he just went into his room and just was quiet. I was worried. Wasn't sure if I had done the right thing.

He came out maybe an hour later, and just asked me so many questions. I tried my best to answer them, but I told him I didn't know a lot. I said I would support him in asking mum and dad. He said he didn't want to talk to them. He sent a text to them saying he was staying at my house for the weekend (something he does normally, so wasn't unusual).

We put on a film and things were a little tense, but honestly I expected more from him. He was so quiet. He went to bed early and I was so worried. I checked on him about every 90 minutes.

This morning he was a bit more back to his normal self. He said he was thankful that I told him. I asked him what he wanted to do, I would support him whatever he chose. If he wanted to confront mum and dad I would support him, if he wanted to stay here he could as long as he wanted. He said he just wanted to process everything. I asked if he had spoken to mum or dad and he said beyond saying he was here, no.

We played Fortnite together all day today and he hasn't brought it up again. But he's acting like a weight has been lifting off his shoulders. I thought this would be sad news to him, but it seems like he's relieved. He's in bed asleep now. I'm worried about how our parents are going to react. But equally I'm glad Moses knows the truth now. I'm glad that things seem to be working out okay. I hope they continue.

Top Comments

saucymarinara05

When you say a weight was lifted off his shoulders, maybe he knew? I think in all honesty you did the right thing by telling him because now he knows he can fully trust you and yall will continue to have a great relationship! If he decides to talk with your parents just be there for him. If he doesn’t still be there for him! He needs you right now in this time!

Artistic_Sweetums

I was given to a stranger as an infant. I was never legally adopted. I grew up knowing that I was someone else's child. However, I was told my mom was coming back for me. She never did. I always felt like I didn't belong and was never wanted by anyone.

I am so proud of you for telling your brother. He deserves to know. It seems very suspicious to me that they never wanted him to know. I'd be concerned about kidnapping or illegal black market baby purchases.

If I were you, I think you should both do a 23 and Me or Ancestry DNA type of thing. The 23 and Me really helped me with medical information, which has been beneficial in my healthcare.

Good luck to both you and your brother. Please make sure he talks to someone. Keep reassuring him that he is your brother and that you love him. 🫂❤️

GoodRepresentative33

I am a teacher and have worked with many young people who have gotten to 13-15, and when I tell you they know.. they know. From adoption, to a step dad taking the role on and never being told about their bio father, to being raised by grandparents/aunts/uncle and being told they are their parents. I feel I have seen every combination where the parents have decided to not tell the child the truth. They might not know the whole scope of whats going on, but they can feel it. This is a piece of his identity that he is going to need to help build the adult he is going to be. My warning is: he is going to test you in every way possible over the next few years to see if you really mean unconditional love. By 14 and a half all teens go feral, but Moses has this trauma that he is going to need to work through. And do some very unloving things to test this. So hold on tight. Do not buckle. Tell him you love him, you will not leave and you’re here for the forever. (But you can also be like “I love you, but you’re being a dick right now.. Don’t excuse every bad thing he does. Hold him accountable, but lovingly) They “come good” at around the 16/17 year mark as they get that sense of self.

Also, your parents are delusional. This is a part of Moses’ identity. It was not okay for them to conceal it and try and pretend there was a different reality. I do wonder about their reasoning? Is there more to the story? I did have a family where when it came out it was that the baby was the product of an affair between Dad and another woman. This kid was dragged up by his step Mum, who really was the long suffering wife of this husband. The kid always felt “othered”. The parents instructed the family to never tell them they were adopted. Well it turned out no one in the family knew that this child was a product of an affair. And it was the couples way of concealing the shame of what had happened. (They were very big in their church) The child did not arrive until they were two. And this has some crossover with that situation. Just keep an open mind. (But if this is that same situation, please let me know.. that would be wild) This child was in trouble at school, and ended up living with an Aunty. I was there when we got the whole story. I will never forget Aunties face. Thunderous is an understatement. Apparently step Mum had been so hard of this baby from the get go. Everyone used to step in. Aunty was Mum’s sister. She told me her sister was dead to her from that minute. Apparently begged her sister to be kinder to this kid. She said she couldn’t believe her sister would be cruel to a child to cover for a man. The betrayal was so awful for the whole family.

ShutInLurker

Coming from an adopted kid….I would be thankful. You don’t have the right to keep the truth of my life from me. My parents didn’t officially tell me til I was 12, but my brothers had told me since I could remember. My mom was the one who was worried if I found out, I would think they didn’t love me as much bc I wasn’t their biological kid. I actually laughed when they told me bc they were so serious and nervous, and I was like “my brothers told me since I can remember. Plus you all are white and I’m….asian.” My ex-bf didn’t find out he was adopted til his parents died, he was cleaning out their house and found the adoption papers. Turns out his biological mom lived 30 minutes away, and had died 5 months before from cancer. She’d had him super young and felt adoption was her best option. He was 45 when this happened and had to go thru a lot of therapy to deal with the feelings of betrayal he felt about his parents feeling it was their right to keep this from him.

Herr_Doktorr

Were they treating him badly? Why did you want him to come stay with you? I agree that they should have told him. But why were you so desperate to let him know even if it damaged your relationship with your parents?

Update: I told my brother he's adopted, but I don't know if I did the right thing. -15th July 2024

I wanted to give an update on the situation since my last post. First off, thank you to everyone who reached out with advice and support.

After I told Moses the truth, I was really worried about how he would process everything. And what it would mean for our relationship, and his relationship with our parents moving forward. Moses stayed with me the whole weekend and I tried to maintain a sense of normality. I could tell he was processing everything, but thankfully he still seemed relieved to know the truth.

Yesterday night we had a long conversation. He told me again about how he had always felt different and out of place and never really understood why. He said knowing he's adopted gave him a sense of clarity. He says he is unsure how he feels about our parents, and I'm trying to support him without pushing him in any one direction.

Moses asked me to tell our parents I had told him, honestly I didn't want them to know yet but I'm following what he wants. Well, they predictably did not take the news well. The normal of them being furious and accusing me of "betraying them" and purposefully ruining their relationship because "I was jealous". I wanted to say they were doing fine at ruining their relationship without me, but I bit my tongue. I told them it was the right thing to do but they didn't listen.

They kept saying that keeping the adoption a secret was the best way to protect Moses, and that revealing the truth would only harm him and "destabilise the family". I told them that Moses already had a sense that something was off and continuing the lie would do nothing but deepen his sense of alienation.

During the argument, something one of the commenters said started to nag at me. I asked them directly if I was also adopted, it was like they froze. They didn't say anything for a good 30 seconds and when they did they just dismissed what I said, but I could feel something was different. I'm considering taking a DNA test to put my mind at ease, but I don't know if that's the right thing to do now when I should be focusing on Moses.

Today, Moses tried to go home after school. Our parents locked the doors and wouldn’t let him in. They ignored him knocking on the doors and have also ignored his text messages to them. He came back to my place, clearly upset and confused. Moses is such a good kid that I think he was willing to just move on but now they've locked him out he feels incredibly hurt and rejected and I can't understand why they would do that to him. I can understand them doing it to me, but not to him.

Top Comments

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

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Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

Mood Spoiler: Hopeful outlook, no kitty tax

July 5, 2024

earlier this week, i had to rush one of my kitties to the emergency room. he started to vomit and cry from pain when his belly was touched. gave him gabapentin but it wasn't helping. it was late so my mum and i took him while my boyfriend was at work. without hesitation, my mum and i signed approval for cpr and life saving procedures. the vet told us he had a urinary blockage from bladder crystals, so he got a urinary catheter and iv fluids. couple days later, i brought him back home.

yesterday, i noticed he was still straining to urinate and had urinary incontinence since i was noticing bloody urine in places it shouldn't be. since it was still occurring for another 24 hours, i took him back to the emergency vet since it was a holiday. i had asked my boyfriend to come along for assistance since it was a joint decision for us to get the cat.

his first words to me were "it's best we euthanise him. it's for the best" to which i told him no. kitties with feline lower urinary tract disease (flutd) are still able to make a full recovery and live a long, normal life given some diet and environmental changes. "it's chronic, it's lifelong. he's going to have to keep going to the vet. it's not worth it". i already got the kitty signed up for akc pet insurance since they're the only ones who cover pre-existing conditions.

i told him that i simply did not want to have the conversation. "i'm not changing my stance on this." i told him to have a heart. "i do have a heart and this is best for him." he's my baby boy, my child "he's not your f*cking child. stop treating him like that. children are the future generation, cats aren't sentient. you are his owner, not his parent." i have raised all of my kitties since they were little. i treat them as though they were my own children. "its a chronic illness. euthanasia is best" well by that logic, i have chronic illnesses too. does that mean i have to be put down? "that's a false equivalency".

then i told him to leave because i told him i didn't want to have that conversation "well we're going to have to have it" no we aren't. we can wait for the vet. "they're going to say the same thing" then we cross that bridge when we get to it, otherwise stfu or leave. he shut up. and he was dead silent the entire drive and while we were there.

while we were there, the vet said nothing about putting my cat down. he didn't reblock and we got some more meds for him. my boyfriend still refuses to change his stance on it. to note, this kitty is a little over a year old and otherwise healthy. i don't think it's right for my boyfriend to have a say in this, considering i've taken sole responsibility of all of the animals when he moved out.

am i wrong for refusing euthanasia? or is my boyfriend the a-hole?

edit for context: he originally wanted to take the kittens (we joint adopted two) when he moved out. i told him no, as it would be too stressful and they were already bonded to my other kitty (i have 3 cats total) and doggo, as well as a new environment. the real reason is because he essentially abandoned his other cat because "she was too feral". i had gotten my first kitty all of his vaccines to make sure we could take her but not risk illness. she ended up pregnant and we took two of her babies.

edit: i'm fully aware of the possible reoccurring blockages. i already have family support to take care of vet bills and his new diet. also working to make the house less stressful and i plan to talk with his primary vet about anti-anxiety meds like amitriptyline (i used to be on it myself) or prazosin. lil dude is barely a year old, i know he'll be just fine. the vet never once suggested euthanasia - that was all the boyfriend.

Relevant Comments:

OOP further explains her first edit:

we had split earlier this year. eventually reconciled but he stayed moved out of my house. he wanted to take the kittens (i explain in an edit on the post) but i kept them. everything was good in the new relationship until this week :/

OOP also clarifies she wanted emotional support, not his opinion or financial support:

it was a joint decision to adopt the kitties. it was a joint decision for me to keep them. i shouldered the responsibility because i did not trust him considering he tried to get rid of the kitty (the one with flutd) before he moved out, and abandoning his last cat. simply put, he does not have an opinion. even if he miraculously decides to help financially, the animals live with me, i take care of them myself, i take them to the vet, i spend time with them.

i had merely asked for his emotional support, not his opinion.

Namixaswastaken:

Flutd kitties can definitely live happy and long lives! He's probably the type to just "get another cat". My struvite cat became 17 and died of old age/thyroid issues.

OOP:

one of the reasons why i refused to let him take the kittens when he moved out (we joint adopted two) was because he basically abandoned his last cat. i purposefully got my first cat all of his feline lukemia vaccines so we could take her in. she ended up pregnant and we took two of her kitties. he would not bring his cat to live with us because "she is too feral now". i told him that it would be too stressful for the kitties - which it would be, since they were bonded to me and my other animals + a new environment - but the main reason was because he abandoned his last cat and tried to get rid of my kitty that was just in the er :(

i'm keeping the kitties with me 100%.

Chowdmouse:

Honey, this is advice from a middle-aged stranger on the internet, so take it for what it is worth.

1. his problem-solving skills: your bf shows no willingness to have a meaningful discussion, to consider the inputs on potentially a complex situation, and is immediately going for the easiest and most cruel solution. He is showing zero interest / patience in waiting to hear from the professional, actually hearing what the professional says, discussing what would be involved in solving the problem, and (very importantly!) taking your emotional well-being info consideration. This is a massive red flag.

2. he and you have massive differences in how you perceive the value of life. The value of another creature and their feelings. Another massive red flag. I can tell you that of all my social group, when there is such a disparity (like with all morals between two people in a partnership), this has caused continuous pain throughout the years of their relationships. Continuous arguments over pets for decades.

3. considering how your boyfriend approaches problems, has he made the situation easier to deal with, or harder? Because life is a series of problems. They are constant. And if your bf is making life’s problems harder, not easier, and he is not willing to face that & work on it???? Picture the next year, five years, ten, twenty, forty, with his problem-solving skills. Having kids, dealing with finances, moving, jobs, family problems, etc.

I can’t tell you to break up with him. That is something no internet stranger can tell you. We don’t know you or your bf.

What I wish I had been told when I was your age, though, is that these huge differences in your moral compasses, and his unwillingness to have the patience to work out problems in a patient, informed, and caring manner, can make your life much, much, much more difficult than it has to be.

I can tell you that if my husband ever abandoned a pet, or had it put down when the pet was so young and my hubby could not be bothered to even hear the vet’s solution, and there was an absolute simple solution to prevent the problem, and that pet would have a normal long life, i would be getting a divorce.

Silver-Reserve-1482:

Euthanasia is 1000000% humane in a lot of cases, but the fact that the boyfriend here thinks cats aren't "sentient" is wild. Does he honestly think any high functioning animal doesn't have thoughts or emotions?

oorza:

The largest majority of times people use ”sentient” in a sentence they meant to use “sapient” but their vocabulary is lacking. 

Editor's Note: if you're not aware, the difference is Sentience is about feeling. Sapience is about thinking and reasoning.

camilles15:

Hi. Vet tech here. We see a lot of blocked cats at my clinic. Male cats often reblock soon after their first blockage. It takes time for treatment and diet to take effect. My DVM would NEVER recommend euthanasia l because of second blockage because it just happens A LOT. Even if the cat were to continue to become blocked in the future, things like PU surgery are always an option.

It's definitely not appropriate to jump straight to euthanasia. And frankly, any partner that is so quick to dismiss your feelings and push for something you love to quite literally be destroyed is giving off major red flags. Protect yourself. Protect your babies. Run, don't walk away from this dude.

OOP:

i think pu surgery would be an option in the case he's blocked up again in the future (not during the first couple of weeks). euthanasia was never brought up by the vet both times my kitty was at the emergency vet. i'm very concerned with his comments, especially if we were to have kids. what would he do then? and that's IF i'm able to have children of my own. i liken raising my fur babies as training for when i do have kiddos. don't EVEN get me started on the b.s. he pulled when he left the first time 😂

July 8, 2024

lil update for everyone :')

my little kitty is doing much better. he's back to his normal, happy self and still just as annoyingly cuddly as before ❤️‍🩹. he's currently on hill's c/d prescription diet mixed with plenty of water and he seems to be just fine with it. we go back to the vet later this week to see about some anti-anxiety meds and other things to help enrich and treat my kitty. he's back to hanging out with the other animals and relaxing.

thank you to everyone for the suggestions for different methods, i've made note of all of them to try them out. i've read every single comment on my last post and while i may not agree with some of them, i do take them into account.

to make the point, i am not against euthanasia. if my cat's quality of life starts to deteriorate or treatment is ineffective, then most certainly will that be a conversation to be had. i primarily had qualms with the now ex about how young my cat is and how he is otherwise healthy.

as for the now ex-boyfriend, i tried again to talk to him but to no avail. i had tried a couple days ago to possibly find some common ground or even compromise, but nothing. he continued refusing to admit his wrongs towards both me and the animals both times. he told me he would try to help with them financially (but he should have been doing that for the last year, not now when he realises he's losing me). he resorted to stonewalling, telling me he couldn't do it anymore and how upset he was with me (outside of the gaslighting, calling me a liar, and saying how i was manipulative taking my kitty to the vet). he dumped me and i'm now blocked.

when i go back to the vet, i'm going to work to get his name taken off the microchips. i'm not entirely sure if he will turn violent or not, but if he shows up at my door, he'll be met with my ar-15. i'm keeping the animals far away from him. and hopefully he stays far away from me. there were plenty more issues with the ex, but those belong on a separate sub.

it's all uphill from here. thank you everyone for the kind words and suggestions ❤️

Relevant Comments:

WoodsyWhiskey:

I didn't see your initial post but I'm glad that your kitty is doing better and that the trash has taken itself out. Please make sure to change the locks and get a few cameras if possible. 

My one female kitty had bladder stones and she was partially blocked and required surgery (I won't lie, it wasn't cheap but I'd do it all again). All went well and she was on c/d for 4 years until she got cancer and we had to say goodbye last spring. Sending you good vibes and head butts from my girls here.

birdiestp:

So glad your cat is doing well! As far as microchips go- they are usually associated with an online account where the information is stored, so you can usually update it yourself if you know what company the chip is from. If you don't know what company, you can ask your vet. If your vet doesn't know, just have them write the number down- it's super easy to find out what company a microchip number is from, some vets just aren't tech-savvy. Most of the time, vets can't actually change the info on a microchip. Microchips only give one piece of information- a unique number. That number has to be searched in a database to pull up the owner's information, it's not within the chip itself.

AbuPeterstau:

So glad to hear all of this, especially about the kitty doing better. I know separating from your ex might be stressful, but it honestly sounds like a stress relief more than anything. I very glad your kitty could help you at the same time that you were helping him!

Almost forgot, if you aren’t sure of the microchip company, the  will let you know the phone number and web address of the manufacturer. All you have to do is type in the microchip number. Also make sure your veterinarian has the file notated not to give out any information to your ex or let him bring any of your pets into them.

Sheepshead_Bay2PNW:

Your cat has got your back! Leave it to your pets to point out an A-hole who needs to be shown the door. May not seem like it now, but it’s the Best thing to ever happen to you.

OOP:

my dog is usually the best indicator for me. she's peed a couple times in a girl's car (she ended up calling the cops on me for nothing) but sometimes we make mistakes

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

Banned 1 year ago due to being unmoderated.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in and

Ongoing as per OOP

2 updates - Medium

- 7th July 2024

- 7th July 2024

- 9th July 2024

AITA for not telling my boyfriend that his sister waxes me?

My boyfriend (19) and I (20) have been dating for nearly two years. I have a really close relationship with his sister (21). We basically grew up together and were in the same classes in school. To this day, we remain very close. She’s an esthetician, and I go to her when I need something done. About 3-4 months ago, we were talking about skincare, ingrown hairs, etc. I mentioned that I get really bad ingrown hairs in my bikini area, and she suggested I stop shaving and start waxing because I have curly hair. I told her I wasn’t comfortable going to a stranger for that, and she offered to do it for me for free. Since I didn’t see any issue with it, I agreed.

To clarify, I don’t completely expose myself when she waxes me; I wear underwear. Two days ago, my boyfriend and I were talking about random stuff, and I mentioned needing to wax my bikini area. He seemed surprised and said he didn’t know I got waxed. He thought my pain tolerance was too low for it. I explained that it was, but (sister’s name) is patient, and we often laugh during the process. He made a weird face and asked why she waxes me. I responded that she’s my esthetician. He was upset and said I never told him.

I apologized, but honestly, it never occurred to me to mention it. I was friends with his sister long before I met him, and we are extremely close. I also thought she might have mentioned it to him? Idk. He said he didn’t want his sister seeing me like that and found it disgusting and weird to do that with his sibling. I told him he was the weird one and that I’m not completely naked when she waxes me. He made it seem like I was fucking his sister, which I found gross.

I apologized for not telling him earlier, but I didn’t think it was necessary, especially since I don’t get waxed often. I also have other friends who wax each other, and it’s not a big deal. He became disrespectful and told me I wasn’t allowed to talk to his sister for a while. I said he was being ridiculous and blowing the situation out of proportion. We ended up screaming at each other, and I left while crying. He knows I’m close with her, we’ve shared drinks and food, changed in the same room, and even given each other pecks on the mouth. He knew all this before we started dating.

Now, he’s texted me saying, “Not talking to you until you apologize,” which I find immature. Maybe I should’ve told him, but it genuinely didn’t cross my mind. I feel like I deserve an apology for how he treated me. So, aita?

Comments

MoonWitch1207

What does he think is going on in that room anyways?? She is waxing you then ravishing you?? Cuz nothing says "take me now" quite like getting the hairs ripped from your crotch

NTA btw. He sounds pretty insecure honestly. And his "you can't talk to your friend for a few days" is beyond controlling and ridiculous. Dump him, and make sure his sister knows WHY you are dumping him so he can't try and lie to her to break up your friendship.

Lady_Jane888

Nta. Don't talk to him until he apologizes

OOP: I feel like we’ll just never talk again then :(

Agitated-Rooster2983

Awesome. He’s a terrible person.

AIO bf keeps putting his fingers inside me as a “joke” - a few hours later

It sounds so stupid and frustrating, which is why I’m upset. I just want someone to tell me I’m not overreacting because my boyfriend honestly doesn’t think it’s wrong.

So, my boyfriend (19) and I (20) have been dating for about 2 years. What I mean by the title is that when I wake up in the morning and stretch, he tries to put his fingers inside my vagina. I move his hand and say stop, but he just laughs and says, “Well, your legs are wide open and you’re naked.” I don’t think it’s funny, I think it’s straight up disrespectful. It’s not morning sex, I’m literally waking up, stretching, then he puts a finger inside me with no warning then he laughs and says “Good Morning!”

It used to be funny the first 2-3 times, but it got old quickly. It’s also so annoying because he usually does it when I’m waking up, so I’m still groggy and not aroused at all, which makes it hurt sometimes. At first, he said it was because I was naked and had my legs open, so I was kinda “asking for it,” so I stopped sleeping naked for a while. But then he would poke me through my pants.

He also does it when I’m just sitting with my legs crossed, and if I don’t say anything, he keeps doing it until I snap. He says I used to do it to him, but it feels different to me. Yes, I used to touch him randomly, especially when we first started being sexually active, but not as he’s waking up in the morning and not when he’s visibly upset.

I don’t mind if he touches me, but not like this. It just feels disrespectful and objectifying. Why do I have to remind myself to keep my legs closed in front of my boyfriend??? We haven’t been talking much because of another issue, but I don’t want to solve that and then go back to dealing with this again.

I’m not the best at expressing how I feel. Does anyone know how I could make him understand that it’s not okay?

Edit: I’m going to clarify a few things here quickly (I didn’t expect this many comments and I’m writing this at work, so I’m going fast):

We waited 7 months before having sex, and we lost our virginity to each other. I knew he really wanted to do it early on in the relationship, but I was scared. He always joked that we waited too long, but I know that deep down he means it. I understand that 7 months is a long time but also we had 0 experience.

We started exploring pretty quickly after losing our virginity. At first, I would wake up to him touching me and I would tell him that if he wanted to have sex, he could just let me know instead of waking me up like that. He said he was just fascinated because he had never been with anyone else before me.

I thought he was just excited about having a girlfriend. His sister had told me when we first started dating that he had never talked to a girl before me, so I assumed he wasn’t used to seeing vaginas in real life? It sounds stupid I know, but I could kind of understand, I used to be excited too in the beginning because I hadn’t been with anyone before either.

Then he started doing the wake up thing more frequently. I laughed the first two or three times and told him to stop. He would laugh and say that I was naked, so he couldn’t help it. Again, I thought it was because he was excited. The third time, I told him to please stop because it was annoying and it scared me when he did it as I was waking up. He again said, “Well, your legs are open,” and I got really mad and screamed at him to let me wake up first. He said it was just a joke and to relax, but I told him it wasn’t funny.

He stopped doing it for a while, but then he did it again another time and actually shoved three fingers inside me, which literally made me scream in pain. I wasn’t aroused at all. We had a big fight about it, and I told him it was so fucking weird what he’s doing. Like why are we fighting about him putting his fingers in my genitals? And I did ask him once how he would feel if I just shoved my finger in his ass, and he just laughed and said to do it then.

I’m going to have a conversation with him about this, but I just needed someone to tell me I wasn’t overreacting. Thank you so much. I will update after I talk to him. Right now, we’re not speaking and we’re going through a rough patch.

Comments

LavenderKitty1

You aren’t overreacting. It’s gross behaviour.

CellApprehensive7651

OP, I saw your other post. Your boyfriend isn’t a good person. You need to leave him immediately, it’s only going to get worse. You’re too young for this.

SweetWaterfall0579

If a stranger was in your bedroom, while you slept, and inserted his fingers in your vagina, that would be sexual assault.

Your bf is in your bedroom, while you sleep, and is inserting his fingers in your vagina. That’s sexual assault.

The first person is obviously raping you. The second person has normalized rape, so much so, that you can’t see it.

Back to the stranger, if he said that you were asking for it? Victim blaming.

Bf says you were asking for it.

His view of sex is skewed. Freaking out because *your friend, who happens to be his sister is waxing your bikini lines? wtf?

Sex is between consenting partners.

Rape is an unwilling partner.

I’d fucking report him.

I don’t want to sleep with someone who was sexually assaulting me. I don’t sleep with my husband anymore. I don’t even sleep in the same room. I’m trying to pry him out of my life, and explain shit to my children. GTFO, babycakes.

Update - 2 days later

—— Update: I had a conversation with my boyfriend about everything that’s been going on with us. We already weren’t speaking because he didn’t like that I hadn’t told him his sister was my esthetician. I apologized for not telling him and explained that the only reason I started waxing was to help with ingrown hairs on my bikini line, which his sister said waxing would help. I also reassured him that if he felt uncomfortable thinking I was naked in front of her, I wasn’t—I keep my underwear on.

However, he said it wasn’t just that; he was also uncomfortable with the fact that I was lying down in my underwear with my legs open and “her face is between my legs.” I was a little grossed out because he made it seem like it was something sexual when she’s just doing her job. I told him it wasn’t like that and moved on to another subject because I didn’t want to start a fight.

I then brought up that I really didn’t like how he touches me down there first thing in the morning because it startles me and hurts since I’m not aroused. He said he just likes touching me, and I responded that he could, just not in that way and not when I’m waking up. I said that if he wanted morning sex, to initiate it a different way rather than just shoving his fingers inside me. I explained that just because I sleep naked doesn’t mean he can touch me however he wants. He sleeps naked too, and I don’t touch him like that.

He wasn’t really taking me seriously and said I could grab his dick if I wanted to. I said I didn’t understand why he was fighting me on this and insisted that he needed to ask before touching me like that. I tried to make him understand how much it hurts to have something enter your body with no warning. He apologized but still defended himself, saying I was making a big deal out of it, that he doesn’t do it everyday (he doesn’t, but he’s done it A LOT) and that he does it because he finds it funny when I’m mad.

I got pissed and called him immature, and I told him that if he does it again, I’ll break up with him because I’m done. I think this made him realize the seriousness of the situation because we’ve always said we wouldn’t mention breaking up unless we were serious. He apologized a thousand times and called himself an idiot for not realizing sooner and promised to do better.

Thank you everyone for the comments, they really helped. I understand some people might be disappointed that we didn’t break up, but deep down, I really want this relationship to work. I’ve never been more in love before. Now he knows not to do this again, and if he does, I’ll break up with him. Thank you!

Edit: Btw I am 20 and he is 19 not the other way around and I’m turning 21 this summer and he’s turning 20 in November

Edit 2: I can understand by the wording that it looks like he does it every single day but it’s not the case. He’s done it frequently but not all the time I just wanna make it clear

Comments

OneEyedMilkman87

You'll be in love again. Don't force yourself to stay with someone who violates you just because you are scared of losing the good stuff

OOP: I’m not forcing myself to stay

Jedi-girl77

I’m sorry but you are making the wrong decision here. This guy is so insanely jealous that he tried to forbid you to see or speak to his sister because he sexualized her giving you bikini waxes. Even worse, he repeatedly sexually assaulted you. Yes, that’s what it is, sexual assault. When you repeatedly tried to tell him to stop and explained how it made you feel he did not care.

He only cared about what HE wanted and disregarded your wishes and needs until you threatened to leave. He’s only pretending to apologize and change now because he’s trying to keep you with him and under his control. It won’t be long before you make another post about him being back to his same behavior or worse. I wish you could see that.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

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First post:

Second post:

AITA for asking my friend to take down her bachelorette party photos? Not the A-hole

To start this off I am a muslim woman who wears the hijab. I cover my hair and most of my body. I do not judge those who don't do the same, nor do I try to impose my beliefs onto others. Everyone will have their own personal journeys, and just as I know I'm not perfect, I can't judge others for it either.

I (23F) recently went to a friends bachelorette party. Women only, no drinks, just girls being girls and celebrating a friends soon to be marriage. Maya (24F) has been a friend of mine since kindergarten and I'm more than happy to be a part of such a big part of her life. She isn't religious, but she accepts my views and even going to let me wear a more modest style abaya as her maid of honour. This is to say Maya understands the hijab and what it means to me, or so I thought.

At the party, I took it off as it was just women. We were going to sleep over anyways so I don't think anyone was expecting me to sleep in the thing. I always find it funny how they react when they get to see my hair, like I'm secretly Repunzel or something. We watched a movie, took photos and videos, and generally had a good time. I had no problems with the photos being taken, since my friends are usually respectful and don't post them anywhere. It just stays in our groupchat. We went to sleep and the next day everything was normal. We cleaned up and I drove home, finally checking my phone.

I opened instagram to the tagged icon and checked it to see myself and the girls on Mayas public account. I quickly messaged Maya asking her to take it down before anyone else saw, as I couldn't control whether or not some guy was going to see her post, and she refused saying that there were no other good photos of her. I asked her to simply crop me out or even draw over my hair and neck but she said that it would look wrong and that I'm overreacting. I insisted I wasn't and that she knew that I couldn't show my hair to just anyone. Instead of responding to me, she took it to the groupchat as some sort of "counsel". Half of them agreed that she shouldn't have posted a photo of me without my hijab and a couple others told me I was overreacting and no one cared besides me. I should note that one of the most vocal of them who disagreed generally doesn't like me so she would have disagreed regardless of what I said.

Most of us ar urging her to take down the post, and now she's claiming we're putting her under a lot of stress with the wedding only a week away, but I don't see what that has to do with this. Am I really being unreasonable for wanting to be respected? AITA?

Edit: There were about 40 photos and I was only in 6 of them. People are under the impression that I was in every photo taken. I wasnt, yet I was in almost half of which were posted. All of the ones posted were candids.

Relevant comments from the OOP regarding the pictures:

All of the photos of me were candids besides one which was not one of the ones she posted. The whole carousel were candids. I've known these girls for years and it's been known that photos of me without my hijab just stay between us. I used to just say no to photos but it'd always be a mood killer. I generally don't like being in photos, I can recount one time we were sat at a booth and I was in the middle. Not wanting to be in the photo, I had to get up and out of frame. These girls know me. Plus, I don't think someones framing photos of what was essentially a pyjama party

--

There were around 40 photos taken and I was in 6 of them. She only posted 7, I was in 3. I was in the minority of the photos, and still was in almost half of the post. I removed my hijab because that's a conversation I had with my friends ages ago. I've known Maya since we were 5 years old. She grew up seeing my mother wear the hijab, and was there as I started to wear it in my teen years. I've communicated my boundaries to her, and the group, over the course of years. Do you state your boundaries every time you talk to someone? "Good morning babe, I know I've said this every day for the past four years, but please don't touch my elbow" (I'm really bad at making up scenarios sorry)

OOP is voted NTA

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UPDATE: AITA for asking my friend to take down her bachelorette party photos? UPDATE - 4 days later

I wanted to give it a couple days before I updated to let the situation cool down or hopefully resolve itself. In short, the post got taken down, the wedding is still happening, and I'm still friends with her.

I got a bunch of dms from her fiance the other day, apologizing, saying that he'd recognized me in the photos of me without my hijab and he'd informed me that he told her to take them down. He's Christian, but from what I understand, his mother veils and he understands the rules around hijab a good bit. He felt bad and I had to reassure him that it wasn't his fault and thanked him for talking to Maya for me. He asked if this whole situation would affect our friendship, and I told him I wasn't sure in what way.

A bit after, Maya finally messaged me one to one for the first time after the whole fiasco. She apologized and explained she didn't think it was a big deal since her other muslim friend doesn't wear the hijab and she thought I was simply being dramatic. I told her that everyone is different and what someone else chooses to do with their body and faith doesn't mean someone else will do the same. My older sister doesn't wear the hijab, Maya's seen her. It's a personal choice and no two people are going to have the same relationship with it.

I asked her why me asking her to take it down wasn't enough on it's own, since she'd done similar things for others in the past (think bra strap showing, unflattering angle, exposed scars) without hesitation. She said she wasn't thinking straight and felt like it didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. It was only when her fiance brought it up to her that she took it down. She put the other four photos up (the ones without me in them) and she realized that she was being stubborn for no reason. She asked me if there was anything she could do to make up for it and I asked her to just keep it in the past.

I'd like to clear up the notion that this the first bachelorette party or even wedding our friend group has had, since that's far from it. Added, we've had conversations regarding special occasions MANY times so even if it was the first time, this shouldn't have happened. This wedding will be the third and come by September, mine will be the fourth! Also, we've been friends for almost two decades, so cutting her off over this would be so out of proportion. I did not report the photos, and I did not abandon my faith like some of you suggested. This may not be the update some were wanting, but at least things are better now and the wedding is soon and going as planned!

I am not The OOP, OOP is

AITAH for leaving my boyfriend because he brought his female best-friend lingerie as a 'joke'?

Originally posted to

Thanks to & for suggesting this BoRU

  July 5, 2024

My boyfriend (28M) and I (24 F) have been together for a year and a half. I love him a lot, and he has been pretty amazing to me. He is also the sort of person who has lots of friends and his close friends are pretty much family. He also loves to joke and play these harmless pranks on his friends, which sometimes makes me feel weird. Just for context: He has two female friends and three male friends. This is about my bf and one of his friends Claire (28 F). Claire is a nice woman and we are friendly. My boyfriend also has never ignored me in favour of his friends or talked over me in front of them. Which is why I don't understand if I'm in the right.

They (my boyfriend's friends) had a recently escalated prank fight. I had made it clear to my bf that I am not good at jokes and am rather stiff, and he said he would keep me out of it. Claire, my boyfriend, and another friend Kyle (27 M), even had a huge throwing 'water-balloons' fight in Kyle's backyard. Then my boyfriend got pranked with dye in his body wash. Then Kyle got pranked by Claire, something about whipping cream and oven mitts. But the issue was when my boyfriend brought a red, lacy, lingerie set, and he planned to put it in Claire's room the next time when he went over.

I said it was a tacky prank, and why would he buy lingerie? None of the previous pranks have been of this kind, and it makes me really uncomfortable. I also felt like if I was Claire, I would feel gross about it. But my boyfriend got mad and defensive and told me Claire is 'cool like that', and she would think it's funny. I admit, I get a bit weirded out when he calls Claire 'extremely beautiful' and jokes about how she was always been 'way out of his league'. But I thought it was nothing and they were like family, so I guess it was 'their' thing. However, the lingerie prank had me put my foot down and I said that he was wrong to give another woman lingerie, no matter who, when he had a girlfriend.

We fought, and I said I wanted to break up, which he didn't want to and I said that I was just overreacting. He said that I was too conservative and needed to open my mind when he had never given me a reason to be insecure. Claire called me and said that she and my bf have been friends for a long time, and 'inside jokes' are just that, and I'll learn with more age. I still feel weird about this. My best friend is supportive of me no matter what I do, but I have started to feel like I'm blowing this out of proportion. My boyfriend says that the fact that he told me and didn't hide it from me shows that I'm the problem. I have started to feel like I've blown this out of proportion and maybe it's my fault I can't take a joke.

I really feel awful about this whole thing. AITAH?

Edit: The people asking what the prank is with the lingerie? Apparently, it's an inside joke about how during their college days she had some problems with the color red, and the lingerie would have just given her a shock of some kind I guess? I told my boyfriend it was cruel, but he said it wasn't a trauma thing, just an inside joke. Claire also said over the phone that the lingerie thing was just an inside joke of their college days.

TOP COMMENTS

GingerPrince72

--admit, I get a bit weirded out when he calls Claire 'extremely beautiful' and jokes about how she was always -- been 'way out of his league'.

The bolded part is pretty dodgy.

Also, at 28 these endless pranks is pretty childish, what a cheek to patronise you.

NTA, I'd be moving on personally, meet a man, not a silly little boy who seems to be in love/lust with his "friend".

~

Turbulent_Ebb5669

Wow, how condescending was Claire????

NTA and she just confirmed it.

~

missing1776

My ex fiance was gifted lingerie on friendship day by her male best friend. I was extremely uncomfortable. We later broke up due to the fact it turns out he escalated it to sex at some point afterwards.

As a man: no man buys a woman underwear unless he wants to see her in it. You don’t buy sexy lingerie as a joke gift. The “prank war” is just an excuse that gives him deniability because he is a coward. Sounds to me like you struck to close to the truth for his comfort and he is shocked his perfect deniability plan didn’t work.

  July 8, 2024

My inbox got flooded with DMs and had to turn off Reddit notifications. When I posted this, I was ready to be called immature and ridiculous, and get a couple of comments but it seemed like the post blew up, and the comments were...…kind of eye-opening.

TBH, before all this fiasco, my bf has always been nice to me. Came with me to my grad school functions even though he found them very boring, but would do it so that I could network. He builds stuff like furniture and helps out with handy work all the time. He is also very funny and at the very beginning, I thought all his jokes were funny, and I sometimes wondered why he wanted to be with me, plus, I was always busy with school and job interviews. His mom and I had even gotten close and she has been saying how happy she was that we were together. I had always ignored his and Claire's weird dynamic because I told myself I was being insecure. I have male friends too, and I thought that just because we aren't like that, doesn't mean my bf and Claire can't be close. Claire has also never been outright mean to me, she was just aloof and I thought it was because I was new to the group.

To the actual update, my bf and I broke up. I'm sorry guys, but even after seeing so many replies on how he was cheating, I refused to believe it. I'm still in love with this guy. And he called me, like half a day after I wrote this post, and asked to meet. I met him, and he said that he understood where I was coming from. But I was always too uptight to understand that friendship is friendship. He and Claire had known each other for years before I came into the picture, and I cannot expect him to just ruin their dynamic. I asked him what sort of 'dynamic' was red lingerie. Why couldn't it be literally any other type of clothing? He told me he had it with my insecurities. And that he and Claire talked and apparently I was making them sound like cheaters and homewreckers. And that he thought it was better I find someone like me, who thought the idea of a fun night was junk food and a movie indoors.

That hurt a lot. He had always known I had insecurities about being called boring. He always complimented me on how his weaknesses were my strengths. Now he says things like this to me? Also, before this lingerie fiasco, I had never said a word about his and Claire's friendship. I always supported his pranks and practical jokes no matter my opinions on them because I thought it was his business what he did with his hobbies. And he leaves without even putting up a fight because his girlfriend didn't want him giving lingerie to the woman he constantly refers to as his 'sexy' bestie?

Claire didn't call or text after the breakup either. But Kyle did and said that he was sad that we broke up and he hoped I would be okay in the future. I asked him if my bf ever cheated on me. He said that my bf had only been a 'one woman man' when he was dating me. But he could understand that some women can't handle female best friends, especially if they look like Claire. I told him to fuck off and blocked him. It felt like he only wanted to gloat and hurt me because my bf left. I feel like I never knew these people. Claire and Kyle were always at least decent to me if not nice. Did it make me a free target now that my bf has been telling his friends I'm an insecure child?

I don't know what to do now. I have been told repeatedly by both my friends and sister that I dodged a bullet. But I have been breaking down like a kid again and again. I'm even thinking of going to therapy, after feeling the most insecure I've felt my whole life.

Thank you to all who were supportive, it seems like my now ex-bf just did the work for me.

TOP COMMENTS

an-abstract-concept

Note how he never addressed the red lingerie and what kind of prank that could possibly be, just threw a hissyfit about it and blamed you. Never answered the question. You did dodge a bullet.

~

Ok-Complaint3844

You did the right thing. You know how I’m sure? Look at how he talked to you when you were breaking up, insulting you in ways he KNEW were the most hurtful he could. Trash talking you to all his friends. THAT is who is he is. THOSE are his true colors. He was only masquerading as a “nice guy”. Better for you to find out now that years down the road when you god forgot got married and he’s actually banging Claire behind your back.

You will need time to mourn, but remember you are mourning the man you THOUGHT he was. The real him isn’t worth mourning. And yes, absolutely go to therapy.

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Originally posted to

AITA for threatening my family after they insulted my wife in front of my face

Trigger Warnings: past trauma, ableism

: July 2, 2024

So I'm (22m) my wife is (21f) we have been together since childhood, we have been dating since I was 17, problem is she met with an accident when she was 11 and since then she couldn't walk, we are working on it but it isn't promising at all.

So we got married 8 months ago, my family and hers and our friends all joined us, my family criticised me for marrying so early and being rash, I have 2 elder brothers they are 2 years apart, and one elder sister who's 4 years older than me.

They attended my wedding and I thought they accepted her, but a few days ago, we had a family dinner cause finally my eldest sister was going to get married, everything was going good, we joked around, drank, ate, danced etc etc.

My wife was sleepy, so I took her upstairs and put her to sleep, she can't handle alcohol at all, I came downstairs and after a while, Out of nowhere my sister said that it's better if my wife is not present in her wedding, I thought it was a joke so I laughed, she said she was serious, I asked her why, she simply said that 'she want me to be beside her and not carry my wife around'

I was like what?? She's not a burden she's family, and I told her that, she said after that, she accepts my wife, but I will end up paying too much attention my wife instead of being with her, and it's only reasonable that a brother should always be with her sister during her wedding

I just said I will always be with her, she doesn't have to worry about my wife, that's when my brothers came in, they said that I have done 'enough' for my wife, and it's time for me to do something for my sister, they said I should've married another woman, instead of a 'burden'

I looked at my dad and he just gave me a sign to calm down, but my mother joined as well and told me that my siblings are right, my wife shouldn't join the wedding cause I won't pay attention to my siblings and wedding and keep taking care of my wife.

I finally lost my cool, after hearing all this I went sober, I said if my wife is not invited, then I'm not invited either, I said I'm leaving, as I was going upstairs, to wake my wife up and leaving, my family stopped me and said I'm being unreasonable, I said I'm not in the mood rn, if I hear another offensive word, I'll do something we all will regret.

So I just grabbed my wife and went back to home, she asked why we left, I said I got urgent work in the morning, my boss called me on short notice, she bought it, but my family keeps saying I was in the wrong for threatening them.

So aita for the way I reacted??

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Comments

Commenter: "it's only reasonable that a brother should always be with her sister during her wedding"

WTF, where is her husband, the man she just married at exactly?

"my mother joined as well and told me that my siblings are right, my wife shouldn't join the wedding cause I won't pay attention to my siblings and wedding "

Why does OP need to pay so much damn attention to a wedding, he's not the one getting married, right?

NTA

Hold firm OP continue to support and love your wife, your family is weird, SMDH!!!

July 3, 2024

I'm so surprised, wow like just wow, the amount of people here who supported me, I'm truly grateful for it, like seriously, I thank you all.

I think it's going to be my last post on the reddit about this, before I tell you guys what happened I want to clear something's up.

I read alot of comments, many people supported me, some criticised me for marrying this young, some criticised me for abandoning my family, and also many people said I shouldn't have lied to my wife, she deserves to know the truth, which I agree.

The reason why i lied to her on that night was because everyone was pretty drunk, especially my wife cause she cannot handle alcohol, and as I was drunk as well that's what I could come up with at that point, she is already depressed and sad, and I didnt want to hurt her, she was so excited for my sister's marriage, she was talking about how she would support my sister through her pregnancy, be with her all the time

And about what I said about carrying my wife around, I do carry her, everywhere where it is needed, even at home, if I'm not at work, I carry her and put her bed or toilet or if she needs to go somewhere in our house, I instead of letting her use wheelchair I carry her, I am her wheelchair, she's my wife, and she's a gem

Anyway enough about this, so coming back to actually what happened, a few hours ago, I called everyone to my parents home, I mean my brothers and sisters, at that moment or all this time, I was just hoping that we can fix this, so I asked them were they serious about what they said, especially my sister, they said they were serious about it, I asked her how could she be like this when you and my mother always supported her this whole time, she said she only did it cause she loved my wife cause 'shes my little brother's wife', she said that I'm too young and dumb and I don't know the consequences of my actions, she wants me to be with someone who is not a burden, as I type I feel rage building up within me.

So long story short, I said I have had enough, I'm leaving and never contact me again, we all are done, my sister came rushing and just hugged me, she was crying and kept screaming how could I do this to her, she's my sister and my only sister, I just pulled her from me, and said I will be with you always, in your wedding beside you, but if my wife is not there, I'm not either and left

And I went back home, told her everything, she was shocked, she actually thought I was just messing with her, but when I told her everything and why i lied to her, she kept crying almost for an hour, I said I'm sorry for lying, she said she knows why i lied to her and she doesn't blame me, she said she wants to drink, and after drinking she slept

So yeah that's what happened, I'm not gonna go to her stupid wedding and she can forget about her little brother

Relevant Comments

OOP on standing up for his wife and doing what is right for himself and his wife, not for his extended family

OOP: I also wished that my family would stay together, supporting each other, I was hoping that instead of cutting all contacts, we fix this, slowly but surely, we stay all in our kids life, support each other.

And it was okay for us all for all this time, so why a sudden change?? She says I'm her little brother but she hurts me like this?? Does she not know what I'm going through?? What kinda sister puts her brother through this?? She should be supporting me and the woman I love, she didn't do anything AT ALL, she's so kind, she would put others before her, but I guess all this is about is just cause she cannot walk, and they feel bad when I help her

Also I'm not a good man, I'm not special, I just love my wife and support her, I'm so damm tired of people pitting me for taking care of my wife, and pitting her for just cause she is 'dependant' on me, and whoever thinks it this way, just ask yourself, would you feel the same way?? If that something bad happened to you?? Imagine your wife or husband leaves you just cause you cannot walk

This is so stupid, like I don't have any words, everyone is portraying my wife like she's a burden, or laughing, I cannot stand this shit, it's so stupid I can't even

I'm sorry for ranting to you, but I had no one to talk to so I just said what I had it in me

OOP on allowing his wife to use her wheelchair

OOP: NO, she uses the chair, what I meant Is when I'm around she doesn't need to, I'm her wheelchair, she's already struggling and she takes care of our home all day, the least I can do is to help her, also carrying her around is romantic for both of us, we have been in each other lives from childhood and I can confidently say, that my wife knows me better than my own mom

OOP checking on his wife to make sure she is okay and not feeling guilty for OOP to lose contacts with his family

OOP: I don't care about my family anymore, they have shown their true true self

But I feel like my wife must be feeling guilty or something or holding me back, truth is she never did, I will explain it all to her, what if I couldn't walk?? I would expect her to take care of me, I will tell her everything I feel, but I just couldn't cause she was so heartbroken when I told her what my family thought/said

: July 8, 2024

I never thought I would be back here, but here I am

To those who aren't aware, tldr is my family doesn't want my wife to come to the wedding cause she can't walk and I will always have to care for her and not pay attention to my sister in her wedding.

So coming back to actually what happened, my family visited us today, they apologized for their behaviour, and want both of us to come to the wedding, they did everything in their power to convince my wife that we both should attend, their reasoning was that it would be too much of a hassle for me to care for my wife and for my wife as well as she would struggle to get anywhere, they even said they would change the venue and delay the wedding if needed.

My wife agreed, but after they left, I told my wife that my family is probably doing this for appearance cause it wouldn't look good if her brother isn't attending, my wife said it doesn't matter she has forgiven them and they are family so we are going, I said no we aren't and we had huge argument she stood her ground and standing on my own

Well, as one can expect, I don't know if I should attend the wedding, what if they humiliate her?? Who knows what's going on in their mind, humiliating her Is the same as humiliating me, and I want to keep my wife happy and safe

So do what now

Relevant Comments

Wiregeek: NTA.

Support your wife, before everything else. If you have to take the L and go to the wedding, that's OK. If you go to the wedding and they act correctly, Good! If you go to the wedding and they're shit.. support your wife.

You can't make decisions about what she wants or how she wants to handle this situation. You also can't protect her from all the things. She's a grown ass woman with her own things going on.

Right now? Back down, apologize that things got heated, apologize for adding to the stress here. Then listen to what she has to say and support your wife.

OOP: I have supported my wife all this time and will til I die, but my gut says it's not a good thing for us to attend the wedding, idk if you read my previous posts, but my family is vile

It is not a problem for me to take the L or get humiliated or whatever it is, I just hope that she won't get hurt, don't want to see her hurt at all tbh

Excellent_Ad1132: I would go, but warn the bride and groom if your family pulls some shit while you are both there, that you won't be leaving the venue quietly. If they do, leave while making as much noise as you can and block your entire family for at least a week. The ones who actually pulled the shit, get cut out of your lives FOREVER. If they would pull shit at a wedding they are too much of an ASSHOLE to keep in your life.

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Thanks to for finding this BORU

1 update - Short

- 13th July 2024

- 13th July 2024

Am i the asshole for screaming at my boyfriend’s girl best friend for bullying me?

my boyfriend, Nick (M25) has a girl best friend, Julie (F24). Everything has been great between me and Nick, i don’t even care that he has a girl best friend. A week ago, Me and Nick went on a vacation with our friend group (that includes Julie).

The first night, we were all walking from our hotel to a restaurant. when we got to our table, Nick sat down and when i went to sit with him Julie pushed me out of the way to sit next to him. Literally pushed me. i laughed it off and sat on his other side, but i’m sure i was giving her some nasty glances. All dinner she talked nicks ear off. she has never been like that. The next morning, we were gonna go to the pool, so i was getting ready in me and Nicks room.

I go into the bathroom to do my hair (i have 3C hair so it takes me a while). After a bit i heard talking in the room so i went to check what it was. Julie and Nick were having a conversation, Nick sitting on the bed and Julie in her bikini and coverup standing near the TV. i came out and sat next to nick on the bed and they continued their conversation. when they were done talking, Julie acknowledged me and said “you look…different” assuming it was a compliment i said thank you, to which she responded “it’s not a compliment, i can see your food baby” and poked my stomach.

I grew up in the modeling world (i am still a model to this day) but growing up in such a toxic environment i had an eating disorder. I was anorexic and it still affects me to this day. i awkwardly smiled and went back to the bathroom to “finish my hair”. i cried in the bathroom and i guess after Julie went downstairs to get a drink Nick came in the bathroom and asked me why i was crying. i told him that it was nothing but i wouldn’t be going to the pool with the group and that he should just go without me. he protested at first but eventually went.

Later that day, we were going to get some dinner and then go to a club. i wore a sorta tight, black dress. no cleavage out, it was about 6 inches above my knee, so not an extremely revealing outfit. Me and Nick ran a little late to dinner so we get there when everyone is already sat down. we walk to the two empty seats and julie blurts out, probably loud enough for the whole island to hear “wow Nicky, didn’t know you were okay with your girlfriend being a slut”. this time i said something and asked her what she meant and she said “i just don’t see why you always have to flaunt your body. like no one cares that you got a BBL so you could be a better prostitute like mother like daughter i guess” Everyone went silent, and she began to awkward laugh, i guess trying to play it off as a joke.

My mother was a Venezuelan immigrant and single mom supporting me and my older brother. To support us, yes she did prostitution and put me into modeling, my brother into acting. She is not ashamed and neither am i. I have never had any plastic any plastic surgery or been paid for any sexual acts. Nick immediately started yelling at her and as did two of our female friends. She apologized and her boyfriend, Caleb said that she must just be drunk. i said it was fine and that we should just enjoy our night. Julie and Caleb didn’t end up going to the club with us because she was too drunk by the end of dinner, and the night was great.

The next morning we were going to breakfast together. Me and nick were the last ones to get there again so everyone was already seated,except Julie and another girl i’m not close to in our group. i didn’t think much of it and went to the bathroom. in their i heard them talking shit about me. About my weight (i weigh 98 pounds and am 5ft), my personality, and just downright calling me ugly. i flipped out on them and told Julie just to fight me already and stormed back to my room. All of my friends are mad at me (EXCEPT NICK) idk i feel like she deserved it.

Comments

Serious-Run-8015

NTA. I understand your feelings. I would suggest you have a conversation with Nick about this whole trip and her behavior, which is unnacceptable.

My opinion? Shes jealous of you. She probably have romantic feelings for your boyfriend. I am glad he took your defense at diner, but he should have stopped her from the start, where she made you cry.

Also, I dont get why your friends are pissed at you, how long were you supposed to endure this crappy attitude?!

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 11 later

UPDATE: First and foremost thank you for all the feedback! i’m gonna answer some questions and then give y’all an update about what happened today.

“why didn’t you beat her up?” i am in law school with aspirations to become a judge/politician, i don’t need an assault charge on my record (keep reading)

“why didn’t nick defend you from the start” like i said, Julie had never been like this. i don’t think he was prepared that he would ever have to make this choice

“she must want him” if you said this, you were right! keep reading!

“she must have lied to your friends” Correct! you guys guessed this one too!

Now for the update, i took everyone’s comments to heart and tried to read them all. Me and Nick did not spend any time with the group today and really just had a day to ourselves. I brought up many of your points and he told me he would lose her for me. Apparently last night when nick walked Caleb and Julie back to their room, Julie confessed her love for Nick in front of Caleb. The guys awkwardly laughed it off and that was it.

Nick is totally open to losing their friendship because he plans on marrying me. We had a long talk, but here’s the drama. Tonight we heard a knock on our door and i went to open it, and none other than Julie was there. Her words were slurred and she was cursing me out, saying more about my mother, and getting in my face.

i don’t know what came over me, i think you all fired me up because i’ve always been a quiet person and i hate confrontation, but i started yelling for her to grow up. She began talking about my dad (he left when i was 3) i lost my fucking mind. I slapped her and Nick said he heard it and thought it was a sound effect. it was really loud. She fell to the ground (dramatic) and began have a temper tantrum. i slammed the door and she called the police on me, but i wasn’t arrested. apparently she told the group that i threatened to fight her because she said that i looked ugly? and her little minion vouched for her. after she told the group that, nick went looking for me and Julie followed him trying to convince him i was cheating on him. luckily, he knew i would never do that. that’s it for now guys! i’ll let you know if anything else happens or if you guys have any more questions!

Comments

HopsTheRibbit

NTA

From the beginning of reading your retelling of events- I could tell this Julie clearly wants your man… The fact her poor taste jokes were ever even overlooked to begin with- let alone her other nasty comments- is horrible.

Now he has had it spelled out for him plainly that she wants him. If he doesn’t drop her ass- that is a major red flag. Julie is not a real friend to either of you. She doesn’t respect him and his relationship and she just doesn’t respect you at all. Any of your other friends who side with her and know the full story- are not real friends either. If you continue to be treated poorly I would recommend dropping them all and finding better people to surround yourself with.

No one deserves to be treated like that. Ngl Your bf not stepping in when she made comments on your “food baby” to begin with would’ve set me off as well. The disrespect he allowed her to do to you is unacceptable OP. You deserve so much better.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The whole sub is on fire but this thread is particularly slap fighty

Edit: The sub has gone private

Some threads on discussing the drama:

YouTuber calling him out

Mod censorship discussion:

Older Clip corraborating story 

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to &

AITA: Would I be the asshole if I refuse to wear contacts?

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: body shaming, obsessive and controlling behaviors

: June 29, 2024

This will be a bit confusing but I (19 F) cousin (23 F) is getting married in a couple of weeks, I am my cousin's MOH in her wedding we have grown up together and have been through hell and back together she is like a big sister I have never had. When I was in 3rd grade I started wearing glasses because I couldn't see far she was the first person to tell me I looked beautiful in them (because I was insecure about how I looked in them) and that we can match because she wears glasses as well.

Well fast forward to today I went over to my cousin's and her soon be wife (25 F) house to talk about last minute preparation of the wedding and all the fun stuff when we started talking about pictures of the wedding and this is where Jordan (my cousins fiancé) told me that I should take off my glasses for the wedding and wear contacts because she doesn't want them to ruin her wedding photos and that I would look like an outcast / all of attention would be drawn to me if im the only one wearing glasses.

To say I was shocked was understatement I always been used to my glasses and I never took them off, I personally don't want to use contacts because it's so much work and I am a forgetful person and might end up sleeping with them on or something like that. I told Jordan that I wouldn't be comfortable with it and that contacts cost money since I have to get them in my prescription which would take a while as well as I much rather wear my glasses because im more comfortable with them on. She told me Im being unreasonable and that my cousin is wearing contacts for the wedding so I should be a good cousins and not ruin the wedding pictures if not she will tell my cousin to remove me from the wedding and I can attend as an guest.

My heart kinda broke when she said that to me, I know my cousin wouldn't care if I wore my glasse so Im here asking strangers for advice, would I be the asshole if I don't wear contacts for my cousin wedding? And should I tell my cousin about this conversation with Jordan? Btw my cousin wasn't in the room when this conversation happened she went to buy some food for us. Please help me out thank you! :)

Edit: hello everyone! I didn't think this post would get as much attention but I wanted to clear some things up in this

1: This seems to be the biggest as I read the comments Yes it's for the wedding pictures I told Jordan as many of you mentioned I can just simply take them off for the photos (sorry for not stating that in the post earlier) but she told me no that I NEED to buy and wear contacts or else she would tell me cousin to drop me she said it would throw everything off if people see me without glasses in the photos and then they see me with them on in the wedding and it wouldn't look "natural"

2: Some people think it's my cousin telling me this it's not. She wasn't present when this conversation happened, my cousin also wears glasses and the only reason she not wearing them in her wedding is because Jordan convinced her to buy contracts so she can look more 'natural" for the wedding.

3: This last one guys Im not trying to ruin my cousin relationship before this Jordan was nice with me and my cousin seems deeply in-love with her I could never imagine doing that to my own cousin. Ever since the day when my cousin asked me to be her MOH that's when things started to become a little different between me and Jordan but I always thought it's because the stress of planning a wedding takes a toll on you.

I can answer any questions you guy's have in the comments thank you so much! :)

VERDICT: NOT THE ASSHOLE

Relevant Comments

Holiday_Trainer_2657: NTA There is no time to get contacts and get used to them even if you agreed. And don't take the glasses off for the photos. You are who you look like with glasses. They are an assistive device. If you had braces or crutches or a wheelchair, would she demand removal so you "wouldn't take attention from the wedding couple"

Talk to your cousin.

OOP: I understand that completely, I forgot to mention I did say I could take them off for the pictures but she said I need to buy contacts or it won't be "natural" like I said im and my family is used to seeing myself with glasses that it would be unnatural to be without them.

cloverandoak: NTA

This sounds so unreal. Yet it is? No one will pay attention to the person in the glasses because they're different. Literally no one.

Don't get contacts for the wedding. That would be crazy. Tell your cousin what was said. Cousin needs to know Jordan's character. Which is highly superficial.

Prepare to be a guest if necessary. If cousin gives into Jordan, something is wrong with the dynamics of the relationship.

tarahlynn: Yeah OP needs to talk to her cousin but she also said it's just for the pictures... So, not the ceremony? Why can't she just take them off for the pics? That seems like a far more reasonable ask unless her glasses define her. (No judgement there. I have friends whose glasses one hundred percent have been such a part of their face for so long they feel they're unrecognizable without them.) regardless total NTA

OOP: Good morning! I forgot to mention that I did ask her if taking off my glasses would be better but she told me no that I need to buy contacts or it won't look natural for the wedding. I been wearing glasses since 3rd grade ( I am now 19 years old) I haven't seen myself without glasses for a while so it's definitely a big part of me but I don't want it to be a personal thing yk but thank you for commenting I truly appreciate that! :)

: July 1, 2024

Good morning or afternoon everyone! It's been an interesting few days and a lot has happened. This update is to my post if I would I be the asshole if I refuse to wear contacts to my cousin's wedding let's get into the the very long update:

So on Saturday my cousin called me saying she wanted to talk to me about something I figured that would be a good time to tell her everything that went down with Jordan, so we met at a park next to our grandparents house and when I got there she was already waiting for me but the vibe and energy seemed off it was tense.

I sat down in front of her no one said a word for like 30 seconds but it felt like forever, then my cousin finally spoke with tears running down her face asking me why I wanted to drop out of the wedding and no longer be her MOH? I was completely taken back by what she just told me, I never once said I would drop out of the wedding nor say I no longer wanted to be her MOH, as I was processing she kept asking me questions of do I not love her? What did she do? Why do I not want to be in the wedding? Why did I miss all of the wedding events her and Jordan planned? Do I no longer value the relationship we have and the stuff we went through?

After 5 minutes of calming her down I explained that I never once said that im dropping out of the wedding and that I do love her and value everything we went through. Soto explain how close we are (with permission) I want to give you some examples my cousin was the first person who helped me recover and move on from my toxic/ abusive ex I was with for 3 years she never once left my side and I was the one who found my cousin after she tried to overdose I spent everyday in that hospital until she got better and was with her through her treatments and therapy sessions.

As I was explaining all that to her I started crying because why would she think that after everything we been through and she told me that Jordan was the one who told her I said I no longer wanted to be in the wedding and at all the events they had I always said I was busy. I looked at her confused cause what events is she talking about my cousin saw my face and started to realize I did not know what she was talking about she started talking about a barbecue and a weekend trip to Arizona the whole wedding party went one last month, I told my cousin I didn't know anything about this and I never got invited to it. “I thought Jordan invited you?" I never once got in invite or message about any of this, I proceed to show my cousin my message with Jordan and the group chat of the wedding party and nothing was there about the trip or dropping out of the wedding.

My cousin was shocked and started asking more questions like you didn't tell Jordan you wanted out of the wedding? When was the last time you talked to her? Why didn't you get invited? I explained to my cousin the last time it spoken to Jordan is when she told me about the contacts I explained everything to her about how Jordan said if I don't but contacts she will tell her to kick me out of the wedding (as I stated in my original post) I even showed my cousin the post and she was livid she started going on and on about how Jordan would stop bothering her about getting contacts for the wedding and when my cousin would ask her why Jordan would say "it won't match the aesthetic to the wedding and would throw everything off" so finally after weeks and weeks she broke and got contacts for the wedding. My cousin looked me and said "I could care fucking less if you wear glasses ITS APART OF YOU hell I would think you look weird and fucking unnatural if don't dude and the fact she said that to YOU out of all people Im not gonna stand for that" so after talking about an hour she left and I just sat there shocked after everything was said and done.

Later that day around 12 am I received a call from Jordan at first I was confused because she doesn't call me but I picked up thinking something happened but nope is was her crying and screaming at me because " Im ruining her wedding and im being a selfish little bitch" after a minute of that I just hung up then 5 minutes later got a text from my cousin to go over there house now.

Once I got to house it was a mess stuff thrown on the floor, painting broken, dog toys all over the floor, glass everywhere it looked like a tornado in an earthquake double teamed the house but anyways I walked in to where my cousin and Jordan are sitting and Jordan and just crying and screaming once she saw me she started yelling at me and calling me every name in the book my cousin had to tell Jordan to shut the fuck up and once she did everything came out in the open.

Basically Jordan doesn't like me and hates that me and my cousin are so close she been telling lies to my cousin about me to get her to hate me as well as try to take my cousin from the family so she can have her to herself. To which Jordan yelled out "HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSE TO KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HER OR FUCK HER NO COUSINS ARE THAT CLOSE" to which my cousin said "THIS AIN'T FUCKING ALABAMA YOU CRAZY BITCH SHE MY COUSIN WE GREW UP TOGETHER YOU FUCKING IDIOT SHE WAS THERE WHEN I WAS DYING WHERE THE FUCK WAS YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A FUCKED FAMILY DOESN'T ME WE DO" after that the night was blur I was extremely tired and just wanted to go home my cousin came with me and she been staying since that night.

Jordan had been blowing up my and her phone asking for forgiveness and to give her a second chance and wants to make things right but I told my cousin if she wants to go through with the wedding it's up to her cousin I know she loves her they been together for 4 years now so I know it can be hard leaving someone you gave your heart to.

I’m so sorry for the long update but that's what's been happening thank you to everyone who gave me advice and helped me realize that I wasn't being dramatic or overthinking and it was more of a deeper issue if anything else happen I will update again (hopefully not) but we will see again thank you for reading and commenting!

Fredredphooey: Remind your cousin that Jordan basically accused her of incest and then got violent. Not to mention the lying and manipulation.

She should never speak to her again for her own safety.

Mental-Woodpecker300: This right here. Jordan destroying the house on a rampage is a HUGE red flag and shouldn't be overlooked. People like that don't usually stick to just objects, she could end up getting violent with OP's cousin.

OOP: Good Morning! Jordan was the one throwing the things and made the mess in the house when my cousin tried to leave that's why my cousin called me to come over in case it got to a point where she couldn't calm her down after everything came out anything we said Jordan got more irritated so that's why I took my cousin to my place and she has been staying with me

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

**I am NOT OOP, OOP is , account now deleted

Originally posted to

AITAH for having a one night stand 6 months after my husband passed away?

Trigger Warnings: death of loved ones

: July 6, 2024

my husband was my best friend and my soulmate, we started dating at 16, got married at 20, and he passed away about 6 months ago when we were both 22. ive been absolutely distraught, and am still really close with his family, especially his mom.

she told me starting a couple months ago that even if it was hard, i should at least try to start dating again. so ive been trying to go out for the last few weeks, but hadn't had much success. a lot of people are put off by a 22 year old widow. who would have thought?

well last night, my friends wanted me to go out barhopping with them, and i just couldn't do it. i went to this coffee shop that's open late and was just doing some reading instead. this really handsome guy started chatting me up, and it turns out his wife had passed away about a year ago. it was so nice talking to someone who just got it. we were showing each other pictures, i started crying and he reached for my hand, and eventually, we started making out.

i hadn't kissed anyone since my husband, and id never had sex with anyone else, so i surprised myself by asking him if he wanted to come back to my place to which he said yes. 30 minutes later we were in my bed, having sex, and we did it a few times last night. it felt so so good, and it was so nice to have that physical affection again. he was so sweet and loving and really took care of me.

this morning though, im feeling horrible. it's 6:00 am and im writing this in my living room, as he's on my dead husband's side of the bed. i feel like im violating his memory. im having coffee with his mom today, and i don't know how to look her in the eye.

i know i have to get on with my life, but i can't believe i had a one night stand, i don't wanna be that kind of girl. aitah?

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received the majority of NTAs with few YTAs

Comments

EngineerLostonPertam: Who says it has to be a one night stand?

Maybe you should talk to him this morning and see if he wants to do something today with you and maybe see if this can turn into a relationship.

OOP: yeah that's a good point!! im just so out of practice lol

EngineerLostonPertam: Sounds like you two hit it off and maybe he could be a good match since he knows exactly what you're going through and you can both help each other move on and deal with the past when needed.

OOP: yeah. that's a good point because it's really hard to explain to other people that my husband will always be my soul mate. he said he feels that way about his wife too. i really hope she'd be okay with what just happened

Entire-Conference915: You found someone who understands what ur going through and both comforted each other and connected. You have not done anything wrong. It could turn into a relationship, it’s ok if ur not ready for that too.

: July 8, 2024

wow okay did not expect that last post to the traction that it did! i really appreciated all the love and support that i got from y'all. i was expecting the reaction to be more 50-50! i got a lot of dms asking for an update so here ya go!

a couple hours after i posted, he and i had a long talk about what had happened. it was his first time being intimate with someone other than his wife too. oh and btw, he'd told me about his deceased wife first!

we both felt guilty, but we'd also had an amazing time with each other. we mutually agreed that whatever form our potential relationship/friendship takes, our spouses need to be a core pillar of it.

we looked at each other's wedding photos (his wife was absolutely beautiful btw) and talked about our favorite memories. after that, we kissed goodbye and he left.

i might get some pushback for this, not only did i get coffee with my husband's mom, i told her about my night with that guy. she's honestly like a mother to me, she's been really worried about me, and while im sure there was a part of her that didn't like hearing about that, she seemed genuinely happy for me. i think it took some stress off her shoulders, since i know she regards me as a daughter. her approval (along with the support from y'all) made me feel a lot better.

he texted me a few hours later, asking if i was free for the night. i said yes, and he told me he was on his way over. he showed up with flowers to take to my husband's grave. i was sobbing out of sadness, and also just how touched i was. we went and sat there for about an hour, his arms around me, me crying and talking about him. we then went and did the same for his wife.

we went out for dinner, and had a really nice time. he's honestly such a gentleman. we stopped at my apartment on the way back to get some things for me, and we spent the night at his place. his wife had done interior design, and their home was absolutely beautiful. she seems like she was an absolutely wonderful person.

i know this was bold, but i was feeling really good after the day id had and the response id gotten on here, id packed my wedding night lingerie and was wearing it on the bed when he got out of the shower. we had really electric and passionate sex all night, i felt so much freer than i had the night before.

he took me to church the next morning which was everything for me. after that, i told him we should take a few days apart. not because either of us had done anything wrong, but just so we didn't move too fast. he was a little surprised, but totally respectful. we've texted each other a few times, and im sure we'll be seeing more of each other, as friends at the very least.

honestly, i really want a relationship with him and i can tell he feels the same, i just wanna make sure we're both ready for it.

thanks again for your support 🫶🏻

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

CONTEXT: A subreddit for foreign redditors living in Japan to discuss their lives in the country, has been a hotbed of drama for a long time now, leading to an offshoot sub, , in order to (unsuccessfully) escape it. This time, a has OP express that their Japanese fellows are being too insensitive regarding their weight, and the sub doubles down on that same insensitivity. A showdown develops as users argue if it's right for Japanese culture to denigrate obesity, or if it's just fat shaming. Note that the sub's jannies are moving fast to delete comments, so get the popcorn while it's hot!

Itadakimasu!

Completely correct! I feel the same way about ugly people. They should cover their faces if the don't want me tell them they are ugly.

What? That’s completely different lol

How?

Breaking news, you have control over your weight, not the other.

OK, is that the standard? Good to know. I mean, some might say there are valid medical reasons, psychological and mental health reasons to gain excessive weight but I guess they're all wrong. I'll guess I'll go around telling people they are fat and if they don't like it they should lose weight.

You're in the wrong country to be making this argument. With an obesity rate of around *3% in comparison to vastly higher percentages in Western countries, it would seem that Japan's methodology works when it comes to keeping its people at a healthy weight. Too many people in the West think of their weight as something that can't be changed, as something that's the fault of society or some illness that they have, when in reality they just don't want to eat less and do a bit of walking.

The point I'm making, which I didn't think was particularly difficult or controversial, is that you don't go around telling people they're fat. If you do, you're incredibly and unacceptably rude. I don't disagree with your other points but OP didn't ask the idiots on japanlife for fucking medical advice. People acting like they're MDs as opposed to drunk expats waiting on the euros.

People in Japan do, indeed, go around telling people that they're fat. It's normal behavior here, and it seems to work. Sometimes being too nice to people ends up harming them in the end, and the West's obsession with fat acceptance might be an example of that.

No. Rude people do. What are you actually arguing here? Japanese are rude?It's not being "too nice" to people to keep your trap shut. Shit man, you must know terrible people.

And there is follow up to one defender's question of "How?"

So it's okay if it's fat people?

Jesus Christ you are that dumb aren’t you? Fat people can lose weight. If someone makes a comment on your weight, instead of crying about it, grow up and do something about it. If someone makes fun of how your face looks, they’re just assholes.

So it's cool to insult some people for physical stuff and not others. Great. I got you. Seeing as I'm so dumb, help me out. What can I call fat and ugly people? I can call them fat, just not ugly?

Don’t you just call her mum?

Wow. You totally won this argument. Good job Mr Hitchens.

I never said it was cool to insult anyone. But if someone makes a comment about something you can change and it upsets you. Then maybe it’s not the comment that upset you but the thing that you can change but choose not to. If someone makes an offensive comment about something you can’t change. They are assholes. 分かった？means "do you get it?"

Do put carts before horses a lot or just when it's convenient? And you feel okay to insult someone's mum? Yeah, I bet you're the coolest one in friend group. Try this: Don't talk about the way people look. If you do, you're the c*nt. 理解できる？難しい？means "Is it difficult to understand?"

You walked straight into that mum joke lol how could I not? If you chose to be offended by something then maybe that’s your problem? Stop blaming other people

One user thinks it is inappropriate to grab someone's "rolls"

I have a kid student who points it out time to time. I just look at her, serious face, and ask "is that nice to say?" Her English is good, so she knows what I'm saying. Her apology is fake but I figure I do it enough, she'll stop. Maybe.

Or just lose some weight...

Genius! I hadn't thought of that!

And here comes the snark...You chose to live in Japan, so deal with it rather than trying to change the moral grounding of a kid pointing out the obvious.

You surmised from one one comment that I'm not working on it?

Fair enough. Good luck on your journey, and I truly mean that. Apologies if I came off as insensitive.

I'm not the person you've been replying to. But you've come off as ignorant.

Lol, since you are not OP, I don't care about you, your feelings, or your opinion.

Another user sympathizes and advises them to exercise and diet

Strongly agree, best is to lose weight. Sadly, Asia will not be understanding of being “American size”, and it may come to the point where your boss feel they need to correct it based on the result of your yearly health check. Luckily japanese food is among the most healthy in the world. Just avoid the deep fried stuff. So sorry OP, you should listen. Good part is that it’s not an impossible challenge and you can 100% do it. Best of luck 👍

Plenty of people are indeed plus size rather than obese…

Sure, but that's the nuance of it. It got taken too far and nobody stopped it saying "well listen, there are people who are naturally bigger, and then there's obesity." So a lot of obese people started using that as an excuse.

Preceding comment deleted by mods; Obese is obese. There is no understanding it. Also other people don't care about your health problems. So lose weight or live with the consequences. Just don't try to fool yourself by calling yourself plus size. You sound very sensitive and touched about being called obese. So maybe that says a lot about what the truth is. Also your argument makes zero sense about using plus size as a defence for being called fat. It's called lying to yourself. Have a good day.

And another "sympathizes" with OP

He probably knows this already as most overweight people would rather be skinny if they had the choice

Then put in the hard work. Saying they'd rather be skinny if given the choice is just lazy and trying to not take responsibility for a consequence that they cause themselves.

While I agree that avoiding comments is not the solution, I have to say that obesity is much more complex than what you make it out to be. Obese people aren't just lazy. Often obesity beings while still in the womb or in childhood. And the body always memorizes its highest weight and wants to go back after weight loss. Obesity alters the brain and body chemistry. For obese people it's not enough to just do the same as naturally skinny people. It takes much more to go there. It's a chronic disease. And one that is underappreciated, under-researched and under-treated. more follows

Finally, one person thinks that HR could solve their issue, to much disagreement

right, so better to just sit there and take it? op not reporting just ensures its going to continue. you cant not say/do something simply because you think the possibility is there for it not to work. not all companies have shitty HR. some actually take their policies seriously and will definitely act on it if its reported. better op reports it and IF the scenario you painted pans out, then op has ammo and choices.

Welcome to workplaces in Japan. Upsetting the harmony, especially as someone low on the totem pole, will quickly make you an outcast. Not all workplaces are like that, obviously, but if OP's colleagues are comfortable making fat jokes, chances are they are in one of them.

still no reason not to report. if you are in a company like that, obviously you should try to get out but its not always a possibility. not doing anything and not creating a paper trail just allows the behaviour to continue. if it bothered me, i personally would not put up with it. i would definitely do something. i'm also aware that some ppl dont have the fortitude to create noise, so there is that. but for me, nah dont let that shit stand. fortunately, ive never been in a company that doesnt have rules that clearly state what is not acceptable.

You have a profound misunderstanding of how Japan's work culture works. Reporting it is more often a worse result than not. What company have you worked for in Japan, out of interest?

no, i dont. i just happened to work for companies that take HR matters seriously. they do exist. not all companies in Japan are black/dont care about policies. yea, no chance im telling you that. but not saying does not invalidate my experiences.

I can guarantee you're in a super minority, as your comments don't reflect the culture at all. You also don't need to say the company name, you could have just described it, so no need to get so defensive. Your answer of dobbing on colleagues just doesn't work socially 9 times out of 10. The correct way to go about it is to talk to the person one on one (not in front of everyone) and explain to them you don't like them doing that and to stop. If that doesn't work and you don't want to lose the weight, well then you might want to look for work elsewhere. HR in Japan is super company orientated, even more so than the West. What do you think their aim would be if there was an employee disrupting the workplace over what would be considered as a joke?

ok your thinking is yours and you do what you want. what do you call 'colleagues' as in more than one, doing when they call op fat? thats disruption in the workplace. look, im not going to debate this with you further. but what you are asking op to do is akin to telling someone who goes to school every day and gets punched in stomach, or pushed around, to just suck it up or move schools. not the exact same thing of course, but your course of action is. i already pointed out that life is miserable for op as it is, so either report it and deal with what happens or leave the company. either way the worst case is they leave the company.more follows

Your advice would make OP's life worse. I can almost guarantee it. You don't understand Japanese culture, it's very obvious. You think like an American living in a foreign country. Unless you work for a predominantly Gaijin company, that simply doesn't work. You can live in your fantasy world, where marching up to HR and telling them that other workers are being mean to you will magically solve the problem. I'll live in reality.

It's yet another classic round of drama from , the hits just don't stop coming. The ultimate irony being that redditors are admonishing another redditor's weight of course. There is a lot of primo flair for your enjoyment: "You think like an American living in a foreign country", , , "What are you actually arguing here? Japanese are rude?", , "You sound very sensitive and touched about being called obese", , , , , and .

Edit: The drama is coming from inside the thread!

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

Thanks to for finding this BORU

1 update -Medium

- 29th May 2023

- 12th July 2024

AITA for not giving my sister in law and her family a luxury vacation.

I travel a lot for work so I have so many hotel and airline points it is crazy.

This summer I am taking my family to Disney World. We are going to stay at one of the resorts on the property.

My sister in law and her family had a hard time during the pandemic so I decided to do something nice and invite them along. My treat.

I said I would pay for their flights, hotel, and park tickets.

Everyone was excited until she started talking to my wife. Now she is upset that we are staying at one of the resorts and they have to stay in Disney Springs.

Apparently I'm being cheap by using points for their hotel instead of just paying for them to stay at the same resort as us.

My wife told her sister and brother-in-law to STFU and accept the gift but they didn't. They told my in-laws that I was making their kids jealous by not letting them enjoy the same stuff as us.

To be clear the hotel I booked for them is very nice. It's just not The Grand Floridian.

So I finally talked to them and gave the the choice of accepting my gift or not coming since I could still cancel their reservations.

They started yelling at me for being an asshole and taking something away from their children. I had talked to them like adults but when they started screaming their kids heard them and found out that they might not be going. Now their kids are pissed at their parents for possibly fucking up their vacation. And I'm the bigger asshole for making them look bad in front of their kids.

AITA?

Comments

Empty_Comfort_4513

Let me get this straight...

You're gifting them airline tickets, park tickets AND a nice hotel and they demand more?

Cancel their tickets. Immediately. For their benefit too so they drop this entitled idiocy forever. So the kids learn you get NOTHING if you're being an ass. So they don't try to walk all over you in the future.

NTA.

That's would be them.

Poor kids...

Heck I'll take this amazing gift with endless gratitude! Disney Springs got 4.85/5 stars. I'LL BE SO HAPPY AND GRATEFUL IF ANYONE DID THIS FOR ME!

Guh..

StonyOwl

Definitely a situation. OP should take the kids, leave ungrateful SIL and BIL behind.

DoctorStrangeMD

NTA obviously.

So here’s what I would do. I would price out by cash what it would cost for what you were giving them.

I would write an email to your wife, your SIL/BIL, In laws. State the facts. You recognized how difficult things had been for them and that you wanted to do something nice.

What you offered. With price breakdown. State that you are offended they would not be appreciative of the gift.

They can accept the current gift as is. You recognize that this was an emotional reaction on their part but you feel you deserve an apology for their reaction. That you recognize this is all “stressful” and their reaction did not meant to come off as ungrateful but that is how you are receiving it. And your feelings are hurt but you would be happy to move forward.

That you will gladly remove the hotel and they can book the grand Floridian with prices listed. On their own dime. And you still want an apology.

If they find option 1 & 2 unacceptable. Then you will rescind the gift offer. Apologize for giving them a gift and the matter will be closed.

[deleted]

Rescind the offer, but take the kids. I feel bad they'll have to pay for their parents' AHolery. EDIT: Okay, scratch that. I feel bad for the kid, but so many people have made the case that it will either create more drama or set an expectation in the mind of the entitled in-laws that from now on you should be taking their children on vacation with yours. It's too bad that they couldn't just accept your generous gift.

meadow_chef

Your SIL could have chosen this route:

“Your uncle _______ is just amazing and is offering us this unforgettable trip! We will be staying at a different location but doing all of the parks and activities together. This will give us chance to have some time with just us as a family too! Aren’t we lucky to have such generous people in our family?! We are really so blessed!”

But, alas, “WAH WAH WAH!! I WANT MORE MORE MORE!!”

Edit: YOWZA!! An award! Thanks so much!

SeigePhoenix

Based on what OP wrote it seems the kids did know how lucky they were and are pissed at their parents for potentially messing this up. Sad that the kids are more mature than their parents.

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - AITAH for only offering to take my wife's niece and nephew on vacation with our family and vehemently excluding my sister-in-law and her husband. - 1 year later

Last year I thought I would do a nice thing and take my sister-in-law and her family do Disney World with my family.

It turned into a shit show because I didn't put them up at the same resort as my family stayed at. We stayed at the Grand Floridian and I put them up at a very nice hotel at Disney Springs. I also paid for their flights, park tickets, and some meals. COVID was hard on them and I thought I was doing something nice. They went apeshit because I didn't let them stay with us.

Anyways this year we are going to Los Angeles to do all the touristy stuff there. Only two days at Disneyland but it is a much smaller park. We are doing a bunch of other stuff.

Our kids love their cousins and wanted them along. I talked to my wife and we agreed to bring just the kids. I did not want a repeat of last year. We talked to her sister and her husband and we asked if we could bring the kids with us.

And it was a shit show. They wanted to know why they weren't invited. So I said that they were of course welcome to join us but that I would not be paying for anything for them. They had to pay for their own flights, their own hotel, their own food, their own everything.

That wasn't acceptable to them. They wanted to vacation together as a family. I asked them what they had planned for their vacation this summer. They had no plans to go anywhere. They only want a family vacation if my wife and I pay.

We were smart enough not to talk to them in front of their kids. And our kids were told explicitly not to tell their cousins they might get to come with us.

So we withdrew the offer and told our kids that their cousins would not be joining us. They were disappointed but they understood.

My in-laws are pissed that we tried to give their kids a cool experience without them. I thought that we were just doing something nice and avoiding the issue of having the kids at different hotels.

I am very sure that I'm not wrong. But a few people said I was an asshole last time I asked so I thought I would check to see if I'm missing something.

Comments

Apprehensive_Pie4940

NTA , your in-laws are choosing beggars . It’s a nice gesture to want to take their kids , but what nonsense is it that they want to also go without paying their way .

They are ruining things for their own kids .

Whichever flying monkeys are calling you an AH , are the same people who would never offer the same . They can go pound sand .

You bil and sil are pathetic

OOP: Nobody besides them is bugging us.

Apprehensive_Pie4940

Oh , cause you said ‘ a few people said I was an asshole last time I asked ‘ … so that’s why I said they should go pound sand

OOP: Oh. Yeah. This time around I tried to deal with everything privately.

No_Lavishness_3206

NTA. I went and read your last post. Those people are leeches and you don't owe them anything. Go enjoy your vacation with your kids. It's their own fault their kids won't get a cool experience.

OOP: I'm going to stop trying completely. Seriously. This is just ridiculous.

writingisfreedom

They nukes the bridge so it can't be rebuilt...

whiteprisonbitch

And now vaping on the fumes.

Ok-Entertainment1123

Info just wondering how much of a stepdown a "very nice hotel" in Disney Springs is from the Grand Floridian? Regardless, the road to a shit show is paved with seemingly good intentions.

OOP: The hotel in Disney Springs is $450 a night. They have character breakfasts. They have early access to the parks. And a shuttle.

CreativeMusic5121 - heavily downvoted

I am loathe to give any judgement, just because I think giving your relatives a paid vacation was nice----but I do see their point.

I understand that you didn't want to (maybe couldn't afford) to pay for them to stay at the Grand Floridian with you, but it was kind of rude to have them join you on vacation but then do the separate accommodations. You could have stayed with them at the less expensive property, or found a different one priced in between for you all to stay together.

You think you were being generous (and you were!) but at the same time you let them know that you don't think they are on your level. By now inviting the kids and not the adults, you reinforce that notion.

OOP: You feel that spending close to $8,000 on them wasn't enough and I should have spent another $6,000?

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments