I am not The OOP, OOP is

I have 2 weeks to get away from my husband

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

TRIGGER WARNING: controlling behavior, abusive behavior, stalking, assault, physical violence, DARVO

  Apr 27, 2024

Throwaway account as my husband and In-laws are follow my main. I, 29 F, have been married to my husband, 30 m, who I'll call Alex. Alex and I met in college during our freshman year. We started off as just friends, and got married seven months ago. I've gotten along with his family, but we aren't super close but we're friendly enough. The problem is that Alex has begun to make me incredibly uncomfortable.

Firstly, he's begun to ask me who I'm meeting with, where, what we plan on doing, how long every single time I leave the house without him. At first, I just thought he was being protective and a good partner just in case something happened, but then he started checking my phone after the visits, vetting and researching each of my friends as well.

He also has been pursuing me to link my bank account to his, as he's "in charge" of the finances when he was perfectly fine with keeping them separate before. We fight about it almost every day.

Finally, yesterday when he was preparing to go on a work trip for two weeks in California, he demanded I wear a tracker so he could keep and eye on me while he's gone. I can't do this anymore, I feel like I'm suffocating and his family who I've spoken to about his worrying behavior just said he's being careful and protective as a good husband should. I need to gather my things together and find a way to be gone before he gets home without tipping him off.

He's always threatened that if he ever found me cheating on him he'd turn in divorce papers the same day. He keeps a filled out copy in his desk. I'm going to submit those the day I leave. But there's so much to do, bergen finding a new place to live, seeing if my job has any transfers available, packing and moving in two weeks. His return flight  May 11th, so I need to move quickly. I'm posting here because I don't have any close family, and I can't risk dragging my friends into this as we share the same friends.I just needed a place to vent, and ask if anyone has any advice on the easiest and safest way to do this?

Edit: oh my god you guys are amazing! I never even thought to not use his divorce papers. I'll check for cameras before I start any packing or prepping. I may also shred his divorce papers just in case and look into getting a lawyer for myself. I'm in a no fault divorce state, that much I so remember which will help. I'll update again when I know more. The tracker he wants me to use is a small clip to put on the belt or waistband. I'll wear it unless I'm going or doing something related to me leaving. No pets yet thankfully.

  Apr 28, 2024

So I've gotten a lot of support and helpful advice along with questions I thought I should clarify before I proceed with the update. Some asked why I'd be 'hiding' things from Alex regarding going out and who I'm meeting with. I don't, and I have nothing to hide. However when he begins to then double check everything I tell him with the other people there right down to each person I talked to and what I said. Did I send any text msgs, did I order food, how much did I eat, that's when it started to feel like I was slowly being pushed into a corner. It didn't start that bad, but gradually grew worse overtime.

All of the Reddit subs my in-law's families are part of are related gardening and diy so I highly doubt they'll see this, if so by the time they do, I'll hopefully be gone. I talked to my job and explained things to my manager. And they promised to look into openings in other states to see if they could get me into one. They'll have an update on that in three days. I trust that my bank account us secured, considering he's tried to get into it before and failed. I found one camera in the kitchen, another in the living room and one in our bedroom. As such, I've left them in place for now and done all other planning, either in the bathroom pretending I'm taking a bath.

I'm honestly staying away from the domestic violence services as my sister-in-law is unfortunately higher up in those considering she volunteers there and I have a feeling if I did show up there, they would know in a heartbeat. I can't look for apartments until I get the update from my work, but either or i'm still gonna be leaving the state. The day before I do I will be changing my number carrier and wiping my laptop and all of his electronics before I do.

I've met with 2 lawyers so far and had them look over the paperwork. My husband had prepared and both said that it did it have some clauses in it. That could have caused me some trouble down the line. What alarmed all of us close the fact that several of those clauses dealt with future children, and not as a hypothetical. Like several hair suggested I have a feeling he fully intended on getting me pregnant to keep me trapped and tied to him.

There are 3 other locations. My job could send me to and I have. As a precaution Begun looking into all 3 cities and housing in the areas. Just in case one of those, this is the one they send me to. Even if they don't have an opening that they can push me into then I will just have to quit, move and figure things out on my own. I have enough money to live and survive for a few months until I can pick up another job.

Unfortunately all of our friends are mutuals and would likely be unaware of the consequences of saying or sharing anything I do or say with my husband. I don't have any surviving close family and obviously my in laws are not a good resource to rely on. I am on my own unfortunately, other than the wonderful bonds, i've begun to make here. I will update again if I get more information or something else happens. Otherwise all update when my work gets back to me. I do plan on leaving before he returns, though. Just to make sure that i'm not anywhere near here at that time.

  Apr 30, 2024

Good news! My work has an opening I qualify for that will not only shift me across the country, but also comes with a salary increase as well. I've started telling my in laws and friends that I'm planning a surprise outing for when my husband gets back for just the two of us. This way, people don't give me odd looks if they see me out and about. I've even gone as far as asking MIL  to show me his favorite recipes.

Meanwhile, I've found a moving company that while small is willing to work in a storm. The reason is in five days, we're supposed to get hit with a large storm front. I plan to shut off the breaker and say we lost power if he asks just as several people here suggested and even send him a short clip of the storm.

I will have all of my stuff moved that afternoon, and I will be flying out once the weather has cleared enough to do so. I have a lawyer who will push my divorce through, and I've filled out the necessary paperwork so that I don't have to be here for it. I'm not suing for assets or alimony and I've shredded his divorce papers as well. I've set up a cheap payphone plan through cricket until this is all said and done at which point I will find a new carrier, number and phone. This one is being wiped and left behind.

My laptop is provided by my work, and the IT department inspected it thoroughly and it was clean thankfully. No other electronic aside from my laptop and new phone will be coming with me. If alex needs to talk to me, he can do it through my lawyer. Not sure if anything else will happen, my fingers are crossed that he doesn't think anythings amiss until after I leave - and I'm not turning the breaker back on when I do. He can when he gets home. My work is covering the plane ticket, so that at least is one expense I don't have to finagle in.

  May 7, 2024

Update 3: I have 2 weeks to get away from my husband.

It's been a busy week, but I've gotten so much done. Firstly, I am now out of the house and am currently in a hotel while I look for an apartment. It's a big city, bustling with people no matter where you look. We had a pretty bad storm system hit back home, that actually lasted two days. High winds, thunder, lightning and even hail everywhere. I didn't take much from the house, my documents, clothes and important sentimental items. I left all of the furniture and electronics behind. I cleaned the house top to bottom and took pictures on my phone so he couldn't claim I damaged anything when I left.

My lawyer has already started divorce proceedings, and my husband will be served on the 8th. His plane is due to land early morning, and the sheriff will be there at the house waiting for him. He is very much about public appearances and reputation. My lawyer will be calling him as well to inform him that I am more than willing to air out everything to the public about his actions if it means securing my freedom from him. I will go to court as long as I must to get this pushed through.

I haven't told our friends or his in-laws yet, I will do that while he is on the flight to prevent him from getting wind of it before he's handed the divorce papers. I will be calling around and explaining why we're getting divorced, to try and prevent him from twisting this into somehow being my fault. I don't want him trying to claim I had an affair or something so I want to get the truth out before he can twist this.

I'm... doing okay. I'm tired, but yet I feel almost jittery and off-kilter. I keep looking over my shoulder and monitoring what I say even when I don't really need to anymore. Hopefully that will fade soon. My work is covering the cost of the hotel, and I'm working on getting my other things in order. I also need to find a new GP as I want to get a full test just to make sure everything is okay. I don't know when my next update will be, probably when the divorce papers are filed or if we have to go to court to push them through. I will try to keep my head up, but it feels like I'm in a whirlwind or something with so many things to do and think about. I kinda thought it would be easier once I got out of the house but while the fear is smaller, somehow the number of tasks only seems to have grown.

  May 14, 2024

Sorry I haven't updated for a while, things got hectic and a bit chaotic honestly. Firstly, I'm working on getting an apartment still and have applications in at three different places and will hopefully hear back from them soon. I'm still going into work here at the new location, so I don't have to worry about burning through my emergency savings completely. I've gotten a lot of emails from Alex, his family and our old friend group asking question after question. I have only sent one return email to Alex, explaining that I don't believe we are truly compatible, and it is best we separate now. That his treatment of me when I'd done nothing to deserve as such was just as much of a deal breaker as cheating was for him.

I ended the email with the statement that I would not be contacting him further and anything else he needed to pass on to me or vice versa would be done through my lawyer. For his family and friends, I just typed up one email outlining everything that had happened and why I left. I told them I wished them no ill will, but that such treatment of his wife and partner was not acceptable. That should Alex get remarried in the future, I wished they would help support both partners and not just Alex.

Alex, from what my lawyer told me, was livid when he was served. The sheriff actually ended up booking him for assault on an officer and menacing due to the threats he was shouting. His father bailed him out in a few hours, but with the testimony of the sheriff, my lawyer believes I have a very good chance at getting a restraining order. Alex, upon returning to the house, apparently lost his temper again, breaking the dining table into pieces as well as the tv, and putting several holes in the walls. At least that's what one of the emails from one of our friends reported as Alex called him to help him clean up the mess.

My lawyer already has pictures of the house I took, with timestamps as evidence nothing had been damaged by me. My friend reported that Alex tried to claim I'd been the one to trash the house but the holes in the wall were at head height - Alex is 6'3", and I'm 5'4" so he knew that was false. Either way, taking the pictures definitely will help me so again thank you everyone here for the advice because I never would have thought of that on my own. My work won't share details of where I am, as I do work with some higher end clientele who value security and that information won't be gossiped about and no, I'm not some stripper or escort. I deal with contracts, notary and business management. As such, even if Alex tried to use my work to find me, he wouldn't succeed.  

  May 26, 2024

It’s been a little bit, and I thought I’d answer some questions before giving my update. It may be a while after this until things change.

Firstly, No I didn’t bring my car. The public transport here is good enough to use without needing one. I have secured an apartment, and the building has good security. You need a key card to enter, and there is a security guard at a desk right by the entrance to the building. As part of my contract, I gave them a photo of Alex and his family so that even in the off chance they do find me, they won’t be let in.

The responses I got from the emails varied. His family said I was overreacting, and that I owe Alex an apology for the problems this has caused him. The pending criminal charges puts him at risk of losing his job if he’s convicted. Alex sent a long email, apologizing and pleading for me to come home. He said he was worried for me, that he is willing to go to therapy if it will appease me. He wants us to remain together, and he didn’t think leaving was an appropriate response to his genuine concern and worry for my health and safety. The friends gave somewhat lacking replies, saying that they didn’t think Alex was ever going to hurt me and that I shouldn’t be letting my imagination run away wild. As much as I want to say I was surprised by the lack of support, I’m honestly not.

He intends to fight the divorce. I am letting my lawyer handle it, and I am also pursuing a protective order as well. Once I got approved for my apartment, I also froze my credit. I’ve changed my phone carrier and number, as well as making sure none of my documents list Alex as next of kin or POA.

Some have asked why I was so paranoid about Alex and his possible future actions. The answer for that actually is somewhat simple – my grandmother. I loved that woman to bits. As a teen, she explained why my grandfather was never around. He was extremely abusive and manipulative, and her generation didn’t allow divorce really. She wouldn’t have been able to buy a house or get a good enough job to support her and my mother on her own. As such, she endured it, shielded my mom as she could until my grandfather died. When I felt like I may have been overreacting, I remembered how she’d said she’d always wished she’d been able to see grandfather for what he was early on when she may have been able to annul the marriage.

I don’t know when I’ll update again, maybe when the divorce goes through or if something big happens but until then, I’m just trying to keep my head above the water.

NEW UPDATE

  June 25, 2024

It’s been a month since my previous update, and I wanted to share some of what’s been going on in the meantime. The divorce is proceeding, but even though I don’t need him to agree – and he’s not – it means I have to go through the courts to get it approved. As such, it could be upwards of six months to push it through even though I’m filing without attempting to claim property, alimony or compensation. I just want a clean break and separation.

Alex has attempted to use our friends to reach out to me, as he doesn’t want to use my lawyer for communication. He’s saying its disrespectful and cowardly to hide behind my lawyer and not meet him face to face. Alex wrote me a letter that he did pass off to my lawyer, but the contents were him justifying his actions and claiming that in today's time it is dangerous for women to be on their own which is why he was so intent on trying to keep me safe from harm. He wanted me to understand that he was trying to protect me as best he could and was hurt that I would just lie to him and hide my actions from him related to my dissatisfaction with our marriage and my moving.

I didn’t reply, because at no point did he apologize. All he did was turn everything around on me as I was being overly dramatic, emotional and cowardly. There was a second letter with Alex’s from my SIL. Her letter… was honestly disturbing and completely justified my misgivings regarding approaching her in any kind of professional capacity. She spent five paragraphs detailing how a ‘real abusive’ relationship looked like and that Alex was the furthest thing from abusive. The details she included were all related to financial abuse and physical abuse. Nothing like what Alex had been doing. She stated that my attempts to smear her brother’s name for attention and clout made me the abuser not him.

I haven’t really been able to process that admittedly. Part of me can’t help but wonder if she’s right. I mean, I blindsided him by leaving as I did and am refusing to speak with him at all. My old boss recommended that I look into getting into therapy after I moved, and I think I need to. I have had a hard time adjusting to being on my own, I keep censoring myself and haven’t even gone out to eat yet. I always end up worrying about what if someone sees me, what if I get in trouble for spending my money on something frivolous…

My lawyer is continuing to fight for the divorce, and I shouldn’t need to be physically present in court. Any meetings needed between me and the judge can be done via zoom. I’m trying to avoid confrontation with Alex and his family for now as much as I can and passed both letters to my lawyer in case he needs them. Our friends are mostly trying to avoid taking sides still, and I’m honestly approaching the point of just letting them go as well. I’m tired of fighting for them to understand at this point. I don’t know if anything is going to happen, so my next update may not be until around mid-November depending on how long it takes to push the divorce through. Work is going well, and it’s helpful to have something familiar to anchor my day to day life when so much has changed and is changing even now.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT the Original Poster. That was . She posted in 10 years ago and has since deleted her account.

A HUGE thank you to who found ALL of the links to the original reddit posts and the wayback machine. You are amazing!!!

Please read trigger warnings.

Trigger Warning: stalking; threats of rape; threats of murder; shooting in self defense; racism;

Mood Spoiler: maddening, but eventually somewhat satisfying

Original : September 24, 2014 (Recovered with Wayback Machine)

Title: Anyone had success with private investigators?

For the past 6 months I have been relentlessly stalked and had threats against my life made from someone I dated for a month. It started with phone calls upwards of 45-50 a day, 50 page text messages and him showing up outside of my house at 5 am. When I wouldn't not comply or feed the negative attention I began to receive threats, claims that he would murder me and get away with it, all he would have to do is flee the country. Telling me he shouldn't have to force me to be his friend or give him another chance or else. Every time I blocked his number from contacting me, he would then call me from different ones, try and pretend to be other people or have his friends or sometimes even random strangers he'd ask on the street( I once scared a unsuspecting guy half to death after informing him that the person who had just told him to call me was actually stalking me and I sent him proof, he ended up calling the police on him. He fled of coarse) After about 2 months of that I was evicted from my apartment building due to my neighbors no longer feeling safe because of his looming presence. I then applied for and was granted a TPO, A few days afterwards I received a picture message of the note the SHeriff Civil had left on the door of my Stalkers-then residence with a message taunting me that "What you are trying to do was stupid and a restraining order is just a piece of paper." So ultimately he just ended up avoiding the process server and simple as that, I was not being protected at all.

May 31st of this year I relocated. This did not deter my stalker. He vowed to find wherever I moved to and threatened that if he couldn't find me he would be able to find my family and then proceeded to send me a map of my mother's home whom he had never met. I received a message from a woman claiming to be my former landlord, letting me know that I owed a balance on my account and to avoid late fees I needed to pay the amount which I could do with the link provided in the message. Turns out it was my stalker pretending to be a woman and the link turned out to be a tool used to grab the user's IP address when the click the link. Upon this discovery I changed my phone number and began to systematically dismantle any trace of an online presence I once had. This action only seemed to anger him and before deleting the profiles outright I would attempt to block him from contacting me. Each and every time I blocked one he simply created a new one and proceed to contact me as if nothing had happened. 12 different reddit accounts, 9 different tumblrs, 10 different imstagrams, 3 meetup accounts, 4 facebooks (with which he changed his location to that of my hometown and proceeded to add nearly everyone from my graduating class in high school) and even 3 Duolingo accounts and myspace. Yes. MySpace.

I then received an empty package from him addressed to my former residence with the declaration : ADDRESS CORRECTION REQUESTED: DO NOT FORWARD. I'm assuming he thought that the post office would adhere to his requests and return the package to him with my new corrected address on it. Mid July he created a profile using my photos and likeness to threaten my family, when I didn't respond he proceeded to post semi nude pictures of me on the profile in attempt to black mail me into speaking with him. I did not and contacted TWITTER to report the account and have it removed which they eventually did. On 08/21/2014 I awoke around 8pm to vigorous knocking and ringing of my doorbell. I look out my window to see who it is and I was horrified to see my stalker there. I called the police and of coarse he fled once again (over 7 separate police reports filed). This incident was followed by threatening emails from my stalker demanding that I meet him somewhere or because he had found me that next time I would "wake up to gunshots" and that if I didn't he would first "taser you and rape you in the ass using your boyfriends blood as lube."

This past Sunday night I woke up at 645 am to the ringing and banging again, I proceeded to recorded him on video while I was on the phone with the police. He fled on foot once again and I was hit with the same hoopla from law enforcement "Well we can't really do much because technically at this point he's not doing anything wrong." (Then why does he flee, I wonder?). I obtained a TPO again but I have no solid address for this dangerous person. Which is why I am in dire need of a private investigator to assist with finding said residence so this person can be served. I hope you might be able to refer me to someone who might be able to assist me? I've developed insomnia, depression, anxiety and paranoia. I am completely isolated, I am 22 years old and I have no social life anymore. I have zero friends. I've become a shell of my former self. I've faced eviction and lost a job because of this man's behavior and I don't know how much longer I can survive. There's actually so much more filler shit that he has done to terrorize me but for the sake of this already lengthy post I tried to condense it, I have proof in the form of recordings, event diaries and copies of all of his threats, interactions and attempts to communicate and would be more than willing to email them to show I'm not lying. I am in LV if that helps at all.

Tl;dr: People overuse the word 'stalking' so much these days that no one takes it seriously anymore. As soon as someone doesn't like someone anymore they call them a stalker. This isn't staring at your ex's new lover's timeline longer than you healthily should. This is the real 'scared to sleep at night' deal. I have felt the fear before and it's eating away at me. I need help. Badly.

Edit: Whoever has gilded me gold, um WOW. Thank you so much as pathetic as it may seem Redditors and Imgurians have seriously been one of my only sources of comfort and human interaction for the past few months. You've know idea how much these communities helped out my constant sadness. ( I see you ) You guys seriously rock. Thanks for being here for me.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Can you post the video?

OOP: Yes, but I'm on the phone with the police during the video, I'm not 100% sure how to blurt out certain information like my address and my phone number from the Audio in the video.

OOP Comments on September 27 (3 days later)

Commenter: Damn, I remember talking to an old friend of mine from Vegas who was saying she'll get a CCW soon. I kind of think I should forward this to her, soon just doesn't seem soon enough.

OOP: Do it. My gun saved my life.

Update : (Deleted, recovered with ) October 8, 2014 (2 weeks later)

Image description: a photo of the slightly open door. The chair is in front pushed to the side. Black paint(?) is covering the side of the door that has been busted in. Arrows (most likely from crime scene units) are stuck to the door pointing to individual spots.

I'm writing this staring at the mess the police left for me, in a bit of a fog. After 6 months of stalking and threats against my life my stalker finally snapped and decided to kick my door in and make good on his promise. Out of fear, the past month I had begun sleeping with a chair propped against my front door, to give myself a few extra precious seconds in case of emergency. I shudder to think how differently things might've turned out had I not barricaded the door. I awoke around 1:15 am to the sound of the door giving way after one kick followed by the sounds of my stalker struggling to dislodge the chair while forcing his way inside. I jumped up and grabbed the gun I've learned to do everything even shower with. I stood at the top of my stairs and fired twice. Hitting him in the chest, I hear his scream, his disbelief that I'd stood up for myself.. 0 to 100 in milliseconds. I've never been so afraid in my life. I do not know if he is living, but I do know the police have him and that's what helps the most. For months of him evading the police I began to question whether he was unstoppable. Untraceable. Houdini, he would murder me and get away with it. As of now I'm in a haze of guilt, surprise, relief and disbelief. I shook as the canines drag him out from his hiding place under a bush. I survived, where so many people do not. Holy shit, I survived.

Edit: The outpouring of support is WILD. I cant thank you guys enough. Everyone can be a critic and the fact still remains, you dont know what you will do in a situation until its presented in front of you. Those who believe there was other things to be done have never had someone tell you that you no longer deserve to draw breath and mean it. And for the 'shouldve fired a warning shot' folks: There are no warning shots, a gun is a deadly force, you only pull that trigger if you are in fear for your life and all other methods of deterring are gone. When he kicked my door in, there was no longer a deterrent preventing harm. Warning shots are dangerous and could hurt the unintended. This is not a wild west movie. That's what responsible gun ownership is. Ill update once things have calmed down a bit I promise. Ill write back to everyone and after being isolated for so long, anyone who wants to be friends, I am always accepting those.

Link to : October 2013

Editor's Note: technically this was published before the reddit post, but sequentially I thought it made sense to put it here

LAS VEGAS, NV – A woman shot her stalker after he kicked in her back door.  She had been living in fear, showering with a gun and propping a chair up against her door for just this sort of situation.  Her post to Reddit made the story go viral.

She writes, “I’m writing this staring at the mess the police left for me, in a bit of a fog.  After 6 months of stalking and threats against my life my stalker finally snapped and decided to kick my door in and make good on his promise. Out of fear, the past month I had begun sleeping with a chair propped against my front door, to give myself a few extra precious seconds in case of emergency. I shudder to think how differently things might’ve turned out had I not barricaded the door.”

Police say former boyfriend Douglas Eugene Jackson, 22, kicked in her door at around 1am last Friday.

“I awoke around 1:15 am to the sound of the door giving way after one kick followed by the sounds of my stalker struggling to dislodge the chair while forcing his way inside. I jumped up and grabbed the gun I’ve learned to do everything even shower with. I stood at the top of my stairs and fired twice. Hitting him in the chest, I hear his scream, his disbelief that I’d stood up for myself.” said the victim in a blog post.

Jackson left the scene and tried to hide in some bushes.  Police dogs quickly found the stalker.  He was treated for his injures at University Medical Center of Southern Nevada. Jackson now faces charges of home invasion and aggravated stalking.

“For months of him evading the police I began to question whether he was unstoppable. Untraceable. Houdini, he would murder me and get away with it. As of now I’m in a haze of guilt, surprise, relief and disbelief. I shook as the canines drag him out from his hiding place under a bush.” the victim writes in a post to Imgur.

The victim, does not wish to be identified, has saved many threatening texts and social media posts from her stalker.  She says  he forced her to move, obtain a restraining order and acquire a license to carry a concealed weapon.

The victim followed up with a note, “The outpouring of support is WILD. I cant thank you guys enough. Everyone can be a critic and the fact still remains, you dont know what you will do in a situation until its presented in front of you. Those who believe there was other things to be done have never had someone tell you that you no longer deserve to draw breath and mean it. And for the ‘shouldve fired a warning shot’ folks: There are no warning shots, a gun is a deadly force, you only pull that trigger if you are in fear for your life and all other methods of deterring are gone. When he kicked my door in, there was no longer a deterrent preventing harm. Warning shots are dangerous and could hurt the unintended. This is not a wild west movie. That’s what responsible gun ownership is.”

Daily Mail has an article on the case, along with text evidence submitted by OOP .

Update on Case in 2020: (text copied below) (6 years later)

Editor's Note: This is 6 years after the original events, but is the same man. He did this to a different woman in 2019, while on parole.

RENO, Nev. (AP) — A Nevada man has been sentenced to 15 years in prison after pleading guilty to stalking a female acquaintance while on parole for a similar crime that happened in Las Vegas.

The Washoe County District Attorney’s office in Reno announced the sentence for 28-year-old Douglas Eugene Jackson on Friday. Jackson was arrested in Florence, Arizona in January and pleaded guilty to the aggravated stalking charge in July.

According to prosecutors, an investigation by the Sparks Police Department determined Jackson had sent numerous threatening text message to a woman over several months in 2019. The texts included threats against the woman’s dog and property. He also called the woman’s family and friends in an effort to get information about her.

At the time of the threats, Jackson was on parole for stalking a former girlfriend in Las Vegas. That woman ended up shooting him at her home.

According to the District Attorney’s office, prosecutor Travis Lucia sought a maximum sentence because of the “terrifying nature” of Jackson’s conduct, which came after only a month on parole for the previous crime.

Jackson was living in Washoe County at the time of the threats but had no steady address.

In 2023, a woman on TikTok claimed to be the OOP from 2014. There was an article written about that (text copied below): September 20, 2023 (9 years later)

Dasia Washington was 22 years old when she agreed to go on a date with a man.

After the second date, she decided she 'wasn't really feeling it' and told him.

In a post to TikTok, she has since revealed how just three weeks of knowing the man turned into her being stalked for a whopping seven months.

In a video uploaded to her TikTok account - - Washington she had 'a lot of other stuff going on' at the time and explained this to her date who said it was 'okay'.

Washington walked away from the connection thinking 'everything was fine'.

But a month-and-a-half later and the date had very much changed his tune.

📷TikTok/

Washington's date later 'decided that everything was not fine' and began messaging her 'hundreds of times a day'.

He argued he was 'a good man' and 'deserved a chance'.

"At first I blew it off and I was kind of annoyed, I was like, 'Who do you think you are?' but then it started to get really scary really quickly.

"He started sending me pictures of the outside of my house telling me that he was planning a raid."

📷TikTok/

Washington received messages and calls from the man for over a month and started filing police reports - the man taking pictures of her doing so and of her talking to the police.

Washington explains he would even talk to strangers and her neighbours, so she couldn't trust 'anybody'.

She eventually had to move out of her apartment 'because a restraining order truly is just a piece of paper,' left unable to sleep because he would threaten he was outside and was planning to break in.

📷TikTok/

Washington claims she went to the police 'five, 10 times' and filed 'like 10 police reports' but says she was told there wasn't anything they could do as he hadn't 'hurt' her.

She eventually moved house, but her stalker posed as her former landlord, used packages and social media to try and track her down.

The man threatened to kill her and said he 'knew he was going to get away with it because he was a white man and [she] was a Black woman'.

Washington was later assigned a detective to her case, but 'the first time' she met him she says he revealed he'd met her stalker who seemed like a 'nice guy' and suggested it could be a 'misunderstanding'.

"I knew in that moment this man was going to kill me and he was going to get away with it."

📷TikTok/

Washington's stalker changed phone numbers and even used Duolingo to try contact her, and it was when Washington registered to vote, he finally found her address.

She resolved to buy a firearm - despite being very anti-guns after her parents were shot when she was younger.

The man kept demanding they meet - threatening if Washington didn't he would 'grate her and use [her] blood as lube' - and frequently turned up at her door, dodging police.

But suddenly, he went completely quiet.

📷TikTok/

In September, 'he came for [her]' - kicking her door in.

Washington said: "I remember just grabbing my firearm off the table and I wasn't angry, I wasn't upset. I had just made a decision that it's either him or it's me and I choose me.

"And I shot him."

The police later found Washington's stalker - his injuries leaving him unable to run - and he was sentenced to jail.

Washington went on to work at a gun range and took part in 'Refuse to be a Victim' courses to help other women 'feel empowered to protect themselves'.

She now works at a big tech company and never takes any moment of life for 'granted'.

Washington's stalker - Douglas Eugene Jackson - was sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2020.

Link to tiktoks in post- full video available on reddit

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

Married almost 35 years and just found out he’s had a side piece for 2 years.. im devastated

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: infidelity, cancer, spousal neglect, harassment, verbal abuse

: March 19, 2024

Picture transcript of the letter:

Dear Mrs. [Redacted]

I am writing this letter to inform you that your husband [redacted] has been having an affair with a neighbor of yours in [redacted] by the name of [redacted]. They have been sleeping together and having an affair for over two years. They meet at the pool area and the dog park in your community. They often go away on weekends together camping or to various hotel rooms. I felt like you should know what is going on and why [redacted] is gone so much. I have also een him drop off your dogs at her house. No woman should have to find out about an affair this way. I am sorry. I just thought you should know.

Post:

Throwaway obviously….

I’ve been married almost 35 years, yes to the same person, And while it hasn’t been perfect, it’s been alright, kids, dog, white fence…. I’ve got those…. Our personal lives have suffered somewhat, I went from being a virgin on my wedding night, to stepping out of my comfort zones to please him sexually ( ménage a trios) to where Saturday, it will be 6 years since we’ve been intimate at all.

For the longest time, I thought he was having an emotional affair with his male friend, that he had fished with, but had become ill, with cancer, because he would drop everything and anything for him, including plans we had, for him, plus there were a few texts, that while not sexual, were more then friendship!

But for some reason, while I was hurt, I was not threatened, I know he is extremely ill, there is no physical relationship going on, his time is short, and once this was out of his system, he would be back to his ‘normal’ self and me his wife…(I’m really sorry if my words sound crude, that’s not how I want them to sound) but once he passed, my husband would be back to me.

So I was gone this past week, dog sitting/house sitting for my sister, and got home last night to check the mail….. there was a blank envelope with everything typed, inside was a short note : picture above…. I know who the female is, it’s one of his ‘friends’ I’m completely devastated!!! To me a woman is harder to compete with, what does she have/do that I don’t?

I decided to get healthy, and lost weight, I’ve lost over 130 lbs, I don’t hear nothing from him….. I went to the Dr last week, dressed nicely, and he told me I was embarrassing him that his wife was running around town looking like a whore. With her tits hanging out …. I had a slight my off the shoulders white ilet with dark jeans….?

Since finding this out, I’ve become obsessed, in finding evidence, I stalk her facebook, their call logs, he calls her an average 68 times a day with calls lasting 5-15 minutes, I’ll drive by her house, I’ll type and delete her name, phone number, address.. wanting to confront both of them, blame her, blame him, . Wonder what she has I don’t, how I can fix this, Do I want to fix it, do he? What do I do? Where do I go? How? I’ve cried for 2 days now, I can’t stand to look at him, and I’m afraid to talk to him,

Additional Information from OOP

OP HERE. ******

I can’t edit my post. Part of the reason for the Dead Bedroom was due to medical…. Medication we were both on messed with both our libido. Between Blood Pressure, Diabetes, Depression, medication it messes with your body, I spoke with my dr got mine changed up , got the drive back, He didn’t, there wasn’t much that could change in terms of his meds, but it’s obvious I don’t do it for him

Relevant Comments

OOP responds to multiple questions on the length of her marriage and children

[Editor’s Note: made small modifications on OOP’s comment to make it readable]

OOP: 100% real, I’m extremely upset, and I apologize if my grammar isn’t up to snuff… I haven’t had much sleep these past couple days.. Married at 19, will be 54 this year. First kid at 20. Then following kids [19]93, [19]98, [20]04.

And yes this was done on my phone

OOP on if the letter she received was real

OOP: This is real, I am real, my life, kids,grandkid, animals are all real Our lack of libido is real, medical issues that caused it, real, ect….. her picture, phone number, his call log, her address, photo of her house, car, saved in a file on my phone, completely real

OOP on her and her husband’s ethnicities

OOP: White woman, married to Asian man

: March 25, 2024

So after a few days of crying and feeling miserable, I became obsessed in finding more information, mind you, this all came to light last Sunday, before that I was walking around in an ignorance state of not knowing.

So I started scanning phone logs, daily phone calls to and from her 6 to 7+ times a day 20-40 minutes each (I had a typo in my first post) I went through his office, nightstand, etc….. I don’t know exactly what I was looking for, but I was looking for something…..I would drive by her house when he would leave, ….. in other words…. I was going crazy And by Wednesday, I broke, I was tired of him acting like it’s a normal day, that there was nothing going on…. I could not take it anymore….. and I first wanted to talk to her!!!!

So I took off in my car, drove to the dog park, empty… so I drove to her house, started pounding on her security door, and ringing her door bell (she has a Ring) telling her to ‘open her F’ing door’ and if ‘ your woman enough to FK a married man you should be women enough to talk to his wife!’ This went on maybe 10 minutes or so, she didn’t answer, I text my husband that we needed to talk and that ‘I Know!’

My sister is on the phone with my trying to calm me down and to get me to leave her place, before the police are called. In the 3 minutes (yes , he picks someone in our community) it took me to get home, not only had she called him she also sent him the video!! So I confronted him, somewhat, it was more like, he gaslit me the entire time, he talked down, Get your Ass in the house, I can’t believe you did something so F’ing stupid, etc….. turned it around on me: you are always sitting on the couch, unless your sister invites you out, And didn’t deny he was with her, it’s none of your business!!!! When I asked if he would stop seeing her he said he would not give her up, she is a good friend of his

And the biggest smack in my face, he wants me to apologize to her!! For embarrassing her in her neighborhood!! And I guess she is talking about filing a restraining order against me.

So Thursday, and Friday I finished, my pity party, and Saturday, I started doing things I never thought I would have to do on my 35 anniversary…. I reached out to divorce attorneys , they were closed, but filled out the forms for consultations. I also started a resume, and applying for jobs, but after not working for 20+ years, what kinda work am I going to be qualified for???

I stayed at my sisters this weekend, I needed the change of scenery, between his attitude, the not happening anniversary, and the funky feeling I needed a break

: April 14, 2024

So it’s been about a month since I found out about his affair, It still sucks!! And I’d like to say I’ve totally gotten over him, but one doesn’t turn off feelings like a light switch, at least I don’t, And sometimes, I think, maybe we can fix this, but then he does something all Ahole again, and I’m back on track with my plans and goals!

So I’ve set goals for myself, and have been working towards them, my first one, Get a job! (I was a housewife 99% of my marriage) not only did I get one, I found 2 that I can work at the same time!! I opened a secret account, not in my name, and am stashing all my extra money in it… he controls all the house money, tightly, so I have to get creative, he knows about 1 job not the other one though!

I’ve gone back to school to get my degree, geared towards what I’m doing, so far, it’s going good, I’m remaining positive and pushing forward, even when he gets negative towards me: your just going to quit! You will flunk out, etc….. I am saving for a small place, hopefully a little ADU or an apartment, that will allow my little dogs, Once the apartment is lined up, then I will file for divorce, I need to make sure I have a safe place to go, because he will become nasty once served

So far, things are calm here, I don’t ask about her although they speak daily still, and I’m sure are hanging out, 🙄. In our community, it’s like he is trying to rub my nose in it, the thing is I’m not letting him know or see that it’s bothering me, at all.. which in turn, is bugging the crap out of him!!! So he threatened to take my phone away, ok fine, I went and bought a cheap burner phone, just in case he does…. So now, he has switched to being nice, he has bought parts for my car, paid the labor, bought my scrubs and equipment I need for work and school, he asked for a list and bought it….,

It’s times when he’s nice, I think there might be hope for us, but as long as she is in the picture, nope! Then he turns back into The Ass again with empty threats, and knocking down my confidence, and I’m back to counting months until I can move

: June 25, 2024

Previous post linked above

I’m still on my phone, and just worked an overnight shift, so I’m tired.

So we are in the month of June, and quite a bit has transpired, some good some not

I finally broke down and told my kids, those were extremely difficult calls to make, and I told them everything, I took responsibility for my part, and admitted I could had done things better. They, my kids -all older- said while not perfect, I did my best with what I had, And that didn’t excuse his cheating!

My eldest wanted to come out and go a few rounds with his dad, and confront the other woman, I told him, it wasnt worth it. 2nd son is my thinker, he didn’t say much, but he is deep in thought, you can tell, 3rd son said it’s about time , with the way he talked to you, and treated you, I hope your thinking about leaving!!!!!

I was honestly on the fence, he would flip flop between I want to work on us, and fix us to his actions said differently

And my past 2 weeks have been the worst, so since he has been using my son’s car, my son put a tracking device in his car…. Yes I have access to it, no he does not know about it. He would tell me he is going to one place and go straight to the other woman’s house, and if I would ask where he was, he would lie to my face… I just kept notes on it….. until I couldn’t anymore…

Fathers. Day - I had worked the night before, got off work at 8am, had text him what he had wanted for dinner that night, stopped at the store, bought everything, came home got it started, and tried to take a nap. (mind you, he did nothing whatsoever on Mother’s Day)

He wakes me up to borrow $40 to go to a sporting goods store, so I said fine, dinners in an hour- hour and a half, Plz don’t be late, 2 hours later not back, I check the tracking, he went straight to her house and had not moved… so I go do a drive by, his car is parked in the garage, she is parked outside, so I come back home…. I’m more upset for my son …. I text him: you need to come home, we need to talk, I know you’re not at the sports store! Nothing.

After 30 minutes, his car still had not moved, so I called her, of course she doesn’t answer. So I leave a voicemail: I know my husband is at your house! You win, I’m done! It’s obvious he wants to be with you, I’m tired of the lies, his bull, he doesn’t want someone who has loved and fought for him for 35 years, I’m done!!!! Come get his Dog, and his stuff you’ve won!

And I hung up

10 minutes later he comes in, with a Walmart bag says he went to Walmart then a friend, made tacos for him, I dished up servings for my son and I , then threw the rest of the meal in the trash!!! He gives me attitude, because she feels threatened now because I called her, now she has to change her number, and in her line of work, she will lose clients 😭😭. I didn’t threaten her, I told him if he wasn’t happy here he knew where the door was, he was welcome to use it!!

He was quiet all week, but was a jerk as well, and his only concern was seeing that woman.

I had melanoma removed , I needed a driver, so he took me, when I got in the car, not one word, no how are you, how did it go? Are you ok? Nope! All he said was, I’m Hungry! And it was the 30th anniversary of losing my sister to melanoma, so I was extra sensitive….

Little things were just adding up, he was forgetting things, that I needed, or I had asked, I was at the bottom of his list!

On our son’s Birthday, he couldn’t even wait for him to blow out the candles before he went to her house.

So this last Sunday. He was going through the kitchen cabinets, pulling some soup out, and said he was going to take it to this couple who have been stranded down the road for a couple weeks in a broken down RV, So I gathered a few more items, and whatnot , and he leaves, but leaves the bag of stuff on the counter….. I check, and yep, he went right to her house…. This was it.. my last bit of energy, for this marriage….

So I text him again:

I don’t understand why you need to lie, there is no: dog park, hiking trail, fishing spot, sporting goods store, broken down RV , nor Walmart on Bunkerhill! Why not be honest and tell me you’re going to her house? It’s obvious, regardless of what you’re saying, you don’t want to work on our marriage. You have and are choosing her over your family.

And sent it… and I tried to call him, Didn’t answer,,, so I text. Didn’t think you would answer

Not even 5 minutes later he comes screeching in the driveway, slamming in the house, screaming, what the F is wrong with you ? You Fing Mother Fing B! (I’m sure if I was in the same room as him, he would have hit me) I told him I’m tired of him lying to me, just tell me he’s going to the whores house, he’s been going this entire time, and yet still lies about it, And doesn’t he think if I’m questioning where he is, I know ?!?!

He called me a few choice names and ignored me the rest of the night, I’m sure my neighbors loved it!!!

I went yesterday, Monday, to file for Divorce!!!!! And got 💩 news!! Because he is a 1099 employee, hasn’t technically worked in almost 2years, although my bills are paid, because I’m not on his bank accounts, I never have been, I’ve always had to ask for money from him,, And because he stopped me from doing his taxes 3 years ago, because they were too complicated for you! If I were to file for divorce right now, and ask for alimony, he could, immediately file to lower it, and the judge could agree with him… my lawyer suggested waiting 3 months, to file, as he is now working again, started this week, and submits paper bids, so I’m to collect as much evidence as I can in the meantime… he was impressed with as much as I did have this far.

So, I’m planning and playing it cool till September

Relevant Comments

Embarrassed_Sky3188: I know this hurts now, but you will be better off without a parasite sucking the life out of you.

I don't know anything about this, but I think you should get a second opinion from a different lawyer. 1099s are still proof of income. It feels like they could subpoena those and his full tax records (which he may not have filed at all).

OOP: He owns his own business, and the company he sub contracts through sends him a 1099, I haven’t seen a tax return in 3 years as we file separately, I try to look when he isn’t home, but his office is a mess! I’m going to keep looking though, because there has to be something,

OOP on why she needs his alimony. Her children are all grown and she works now

OOP: I just started back to work 2 months ago, I spent most of our marriage as a housewife, taking care of him and our kids, My youngest son is 20, but is special needs, and mentally is about 12.

Earlier when I learned about this affair, I would have done anything to get him back…. Now? No. I don’t want him back , I deserve better!

OOP on securing all of her legal documents

OOP: All those documents have since been removed to a safe location, back in April

OOP explains why she is waiting until September to make a move onto the alimony

OOP: I’ve lasted this long, and honestly, if I were to walk away now, I couldn’t afford to survive in a decent place with my son, even with my job, and after all I’ve done, including taking care of his mom, which I did willingly, and help in his business, run the home etc… I deserve it… I just want what is fair to get a safe place for my son.

According to the lawyer it could mean the difference between from $500 a month to $4500 a month. Ballpark figures here, but it was a substantial difference.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posted in

Trigger Warnings - Parental Death, Sexual Misconduct Allegations, Teen Abandonment

Concluded

- 13th Mar 2024

- 15th Mar 2024

- 1st Jul 2024

Family that left me on the streets at 16, now 30 yrs later want to apologize and make up for lost time.

Posted March 13 2024

Ok, as a mild lerker on Reddit, thought I would share my story and newest development in my life after 30 yrs. Might be a bit long, but will do my very best to give you context without too much fluff. Hope this is the right sub.

So I lost my mom when I was 12 to breast cancer. So that just left me and my dad. It was a tough time, but we got through it together.

When I was 14, dad met and married my step-mom Ashley who brought with her my stepbrother Mark (14) and stepsister Emily (12).

I got along with Ashley and Emily really well, but Mark, not so much so. He and I were aways getting into arguments and fights. I was always told by my Dad to give Mark a break because he's been "the man" of his house for a while. So this is all new. Like somehow it wasn't new to me?!

Anyways when I was 15, I met a girl at school Lisa and we started dating. As much as one can date at 15. However Mark apparently had a crush on her and was mad that I asked her out. He started a fight over it, in which my Dad had to intervene once again. And somehow I again was made to be the bad guy.

One day after my 16th birthday, my stepmom was putting away my laundry and started yelling. Which was awkward because my girlfriend Lisa was there. We all ran thinking the worst. When we got to my room, my stepmom was holding several pairs of my sisters underwear yelling at me why they are in my drawer.

I had no answer as I'd never seen them before. Of course no one believed me. No matter how much protesting I did. Then Mark piped up saying he always caught me stareing at his sister thought it was creepy and caught me once saying I wish I could marry her. Obviously lying, but that was all it took.

Lisa slapped me and called me a perv and told me we were done and walked out. My dad grabbed me by the arm and threw me out of the house. Yelling at me that he wasn't gonna put his daughter at risk from a perv (not the word he used, but you get it).

I banged on the door to be let in, crying and telling them it was all lies told by Mark. My dad, apparently had enough, I heard the locks, he opened the door and shoved me to the ground and told me to get lost. I told him I had no where to go and he said that wasn't his problem, then closed the door.

I found myself on the streets, with nothing to my name. No place to go. I tried calling my dad's parents but he had already called them and they told me they wont help a perv. My mom's parents passed away before I was born.

Well I lived on the streets for 2 years, doing what I had to in order to survive. No kid should have had to do what I had to do, in order to just live, just saying. There were some really dark days. (Lots of therapy later in life helped me with this)

Shortly after I turned 18, I found a job working at a boxing gym, states away from where I began this horrible journey. I worked there for years. Learned the sport (never gonna beat Mike Tyson, but was good at the sport) which help me with my hate and anger.

Then one day met a new girl Ame (20f) at the Cafe down the street from the gym. At this point I was 35, I know, huge age gap, but we just clicked. I don't believe in fate, or soul mates or any of that stuff like that, but if there is such a thing, we had it. Don't know how else to put it.

We dated for 2 years and then got married. Her dad was an electrician and hired me on afterwards. I think mostly to know I would be able to support his daughter and know I was doing right by her, but also incase he needed to keep me in check. (He never said this, but as a dad, I get it now)

Well, 15 yrs later we are still together with 4 beautiful daughters. I just passed my masters license as an electrician. Thanks to my wife for pushing me to get my GED. She has been my rock, my cheerleader, my over all support through this all and I can't tell her enough how much she changed my life and how much I love her.

Anyways, sorry for the tangent, so just this last weekend, I received a email from my stepsister. Not sure how she got my email address, but I know it isn't hard via the internet, not like I've been hiding. Mind you I'm now pushing 53, so it's been 30+ years since I've heard from any of them.

It was a long long email. Not gonna give you all of it, but the meat of it is, they now know what really happened. Mark I guess was busy drinking with his buddy's on Friday and somehow my name was mentioned. Mark I guess started bragging how he set me up and took my girl (yup, Mark and Lisa got together married) all those years ago.

They were all laughing hoping I died on the streets, bunch of rude and vile stuff. Guess he forgot Lisa was there and she heard it all. So she called my stepsister to let her know and so Emily spent all weekend trying to find me.

Like I said, the email was long. Short of it is, they want to apologize face to face (although it was already said in the email multiple times) and want to make up for lost time.

I'm however indifferent to the idea. Like, I have no ill feelings towards her, she obviously was young and had no real say in the matter. But with lots and lots of therapy, I learned to let go of that hate and anger and to let go of them. As well with all the love I receive from my wife, kids and in-laws, it's all I really need.

I'm of the idea of just deleting the email and moving on like nothing happened. My wife thinks I should at least respond back, even if to say something snarky like "thanks for finally believing me, only took over 30 years". Did I mention my wife has a mean/petty streak to her, lol. She's awesome.

Guess not asking for advice, just wanted to share my story.

There is a boxing quote that I have up in my house that reminds me everyday. "To see a man beaten not by a better man, but by himself is a tragedy".

Edited: pushing 50 to 53, because apparently, people are getting hung up on my age. Because you know if its not purfect .... Guess that's reddit for ya. 🤷

Comments

primeirofilho

It's up to you what you should do. Personally, I'd either delete the email, or respond telling her, thanks for letting you know, and that while you bear her no hard feelings, you have no interest in reconnecting with any of the rest of them.

notsoreligiousnow

Interesting. I’m with your wife on this bc I’m petty like that too. Question for you. What happened to your dad & stepmom? Any mention of them in that email? Perhaps for final closure, simply respond you appreciate them reaching out after 30+ years but you have a great life without any of the people who would throw out a 16 year old child on the streets. Then ask not to be bothered again or say you’re willing to meet if and when Mark, Lisa, your dad and stepmom beg for your forgiveness on their knees to make up for the hell you endured.

OOP I might have to do an update/more info post. Like I said, it was long. But to at least answer your question, dad/stepmom still together.

Update - 2 Days Later

First I want to thank everyone for their kind words and advice. I wasn't looking for advice, just wanted a place to share my story.

To those that gave me credit for overcoming everything, thank you, however the wife thinks she deserves most of it, lol. And in all honesty, she does.

To those that think this is fake. It's reddit, I get it, it is what it is. Most things have to be taken with a grain of salt. I shared my story, I can't make you belive me. But that's ok, it my story resonates and helps other know they can survive then I'm happy with that and that's all that matters .

Ok for the update. Gonna post most of the original email as a lot of you have requested, kept out some deep personal info but majority of it is there. Might have to break it up due to character limit.

Plus a response with the help of my wife. And also the help of others who made suggestions, which is good because I'm not that great at putting down in words how I feel without coming off looking dumb. She was able to make me sound less dumb. lol

Taking the family to the lake for the weekend to recharge and leave this all behind me. Thanks again to everyone.

Email from Stepsister

Dear OP,

This is your sister Emily, as I sit down to finally reach out to you after what feels like an eternity, I would like to explain why. I understand if you choose not to read this, but I truly hope you will take the time to at least hear me out.

First of all, I want to apologize for never taking the time to contact you before. I was misled by Mark and Dad, who constantly painted a negative picture of you in my mind. They filled my head and heart with lies and made me believe that you were someone you were not. For a while, I held onto hope that you would come back home, but as time passed and their words continued to poison my thoughts, I let go of that hope and allowed myself to believe the worst about you.

It pains me to admit that I even started to hate you, despite the fact that deep down, I always considered you a brother to me. I felt betrayed by the twisted image that was presented to me, and I regret not reaching out to hear your side of the story sooner.

A lot has changed in our family since you left. I got married, and now you're an uncle. Mom and Dad are still together, and are preparing for retirement. Mark and Lisa eventually got married, and they have no children. However, the truth that has recently come to light has shaken the very foundation of everything I thought I knew.

On Friday, Lisa overheard Mark boasting about how he orchestrated the set-up against you, how he manipulated the situation to make you look bad, and how he convinced us to turn against you to his friends as they all got drunk. They laughed about the pain he caused you and the lies he spread, all while belittling you in the cruelest and meanest ways possible. Saying things, like they hope you died in the streets.

Lisa couldn't keep this bombshell to herself, and when she confided in me, my world came crashing down. To think that I could have been so wrong about you for all these years is a heavy burden to bear. I can't begin to express how deeply sorry I am, as is Lisa. We both realize now the extent of the manipulation and deceit that was carried out against you, and we are devastated by this fact.

After sharing this revelation with Mom and Dad. Dad started crying, like really crying. I've never seen him cry before. I believe it because he has been carrying around a lot of guilt all these years. Obviously, now knowing the truth, he is now having to deal with the consqueses of his actions. However after several hours of talking, we all came to the conclusion that we needed to find you and make amends. I have spent hours trying to locate you, in the hopes that I could reach out and extend a heartfelt apology for the years of misunderstanding and mistreatment and hurt.

I know that words can never undo the damage that has been done to you, but I sincerely hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive us. We long to make amends, to start anew, and to maybe even make up for lost time.

Please know that I am truly sorry for the pain and hurt that you have endured because of our ignorance and blindness. I hope that someday we can meet in person, so that I can look you in the eye and express my remorse face-to-face.

I can only hope that you will consider giving us a chance to right the wrongs of the past and to heal the wounds that have been inflicted on you by us.

With all my love and sincerest apologies Your sister, Emily

Email response from OOP

Dear Emily,

I appreciate you taking the time to reach out to me, but I must be honest with you. The years of pain and hurt caused by the lies and manipulation by Mark and the betrayal by Dad have left deep scars that will never be truly healed. While I understand that you are now aware of the truth and are genuinely sorry for what has transpired, I find it difficult to simply forgive and forget.

The betrayal and abandonment I experienced at the hands of my own family have left me with a sense of distrust and resentment that can never be overcome. The damage that has been done has impacted me in ways that you may never ever fully and truly understand, and the idea of trying to reconcile now feels like an insurmountable task.

I have spent years in therapy trying to come to terms with the pain and deep trauma I endured, and I have worked hard to build a wonderful life for myself that does not rely on the presence or approval of those who turned their backs on me.

While I am grateful for the apology and the newfound awareness of the truth, I do not feel compelled to rekindle a relationship that was built on lies, deception and betrayal. Especially after all these years.

I have found peace and closure in distancing myself from those who caused me harm, and I do not see the need to reopen old wounds in the name of reconciliation. While I believe in the power of forgiveness, that isn't something I can give.

I wish you all the best in your life, I really do, but I must prioritize my emotional health and self-preservation above all else. I hope you can respect my decision and understand that the wounds of the past will take a lifetime to heal. I would appreciate if you pass this fact on to the others and please don't reach out again. I must look to my future and not my past.

Sincerely, OP

Comments

JinxyMagee

Emily writes about the changes in the family after you “left”. You didn’t leave. You were kicked out of your house with absolutely nothing. Even your grandparents wouldn’t listen to you. You were a 16 year old. A child.

They feel guilty. Let them.

Leave them in your rear view mirror.

To throw away a child like that. To not even talk to you….your sperm donor is a horrible person. I hope the guilt eats him up. You could have died. And Mark wishing you death and misery for what? Because his mom married a guy with a son.

I wish you and your family all the best. I am happy you realize that letting them back in will not serve you.

PhotoGuy342

And they let the grandparents go to their grave thinking the worst about OP.

Final Update - 3 and a half months later

Hey everyone, it's been a hot minute since I've stopped in and updated you all.

First, what to thank everyone who's still been reaching out and commenting on my post.

So just have a final update for you all. I know a lot of you worried about my former family reaching out after I asked them to basically let me live my life in peace.

But thankfully all has been quiet. I think my response made it clear they weren't family anymore and decided to accept it.

Outside of that, everything has been good. Actually more than good. Found out we are having a baby Boy!!

Although this wasn't planned, we are super excited as are the girls. Not gonna lie, I'm a bit nervous. I think my wife can tell, she just keeps telling me I'm a great dad and not to worry.

And yeah, after this one, we are done and I'll be going in for the snip. In the words of Sergent Murtaugh "I'm too old for this sh*t" 😆

Just wanted to leave you guys with a little Dad advice.

Work hard, but stay humble. Never forget how hard you worked to get where you are today. Never forget who you are, is so much greater than what you do.

Comments

seidinove

Congratulations! Wishing you and your family nothing but the best.

Edit: I’m still grinding my teeth over not knowing if lower-than-snail-shit Mark suffered any consequences.

OOP

Thank you.

Yeah, wish I could give you all an update for that, but in all honesty I just don't care. We can all hope karma got him.

I AM NOT OOP. OOP IS u/

Originally posted on

1 update - medium

- June 28th, 2024

- July 1st, 2024

My wife (30F) admitted to a drunken one night stand last weekend and it has turned me (32M) into a robot

I (32M) have been married to my wife Kate (30F) for 4 years, together for 9. Our relationship has been amazing, loving and supportive. We have good communication, hardly ever argue and our bedroom life has gone from strength to strength over the years. We discussed cheating in the past and I was always clear that we would be over if it ever happened.

Kate went home to visit her family last weekend which was fairly normal. Before she left on the Friday night, we had a minor argument about keeping the house tidy so our communication was limited on Saturday but I knew she was going out to meet some friends at a bar. I trusted her 100% so didn't think anything of it.

Before I fell asleep, I text her saying that I hope she had a nice night. When I woke up on Sunday morning I had a missed call from Kate at 4 am so I immediately called her to check if she was okay but no answer. After a few hours I tried again a few times but still no answer. Around an hour later I got a message saying she was fine and was driving back soon.

Kate got home late afternoon and looked awful. She had clearly been crying, was not wearing any makeup (unusual for her) and looked like a shell of a person.

I knew right away something was wrong but she wouldn't let me hug her and would barely speak. I sat her down on the couch and made her some tea. I gently encouraged her to tell me what was wrong and she burst into uncontrollable tears for at least 10 minutes while I was trying to comfort her.

She then proceeded to tell me, stopping every few words, that she had slept with someone last night after the bar.

At that moment, something in my brain broke. I can't describe it any other way. I immediately got up and jumped in my car and drove off. I went to a park and walked around it for about an hour. Kate was calling my phone constantly and I turned it off.

When I got home, I grabbed two suitcases from the garage and went to our bedroom. I threw some of Kate's clothes and shoes into them and left them by the front door.

Kate was lying on the floor in the living room, curled up into a ball sobbing. I called her best friend who lives nearby and told her that Kate needed a place to stay and a ride to her place and that Kate could explain everything to her later.

I told Kate I was leaving for an hour and that her friend was coming to pick her up. She grabbed on to my legs trying to stop me from leaving. When I returned home again, Kate was gone and so were the cases.

On Monday, with a clearer head, I answered one of Kate's many calls and told her that I needed her to send me an email with as much details as possible of that night and if she leaves anything out, there will be no hope of reconciliation. I received this email on Monday night but still haven't opened it.

Since then, everyone has been trying to contact me but I have just been working, exercising and sleeping. One of her friends turned up at my house with an attitude demanding an explanation, I told her to speak to Kate and closed the door in her face.

I have also been speaking to divorce lawyers, have moved money into separate accounts and blocked Kate and all of her friends on everything.

Everything I have done since I found out seems like I have been on autopilot. I don't feel angry, upset or overly emotional. Just numb.

Kate posted a note through the door yesterday asking me to meet tomorrow but I'm conflicted.

Should I meet her? Will it change anything? Is there any point in trying to reconcile?

Is it normal to feel like a robot and how do I snap out of this?

Edit: I just want to add that when I came home the first time, Kate confirmed it was consensual. She was drunk but knew what she was doing.

Tldr: wife cheated out of the blue and I have been going through the motions since finding out

Relevant Comments

seart

Hey, I am really sorry. I will speak from experience, being numb, after finding out, was one of the main feelings that you will have. And it's totally okay to take a pause for as long as you need, before you make a single decision. Need months? Take months. You dont owe anybody anything at this moment. And good job setting up boundaries.

Regarding wether to read that e-mail or not, think about it before doing so. Generally there are two types of people: the ones that want to know as less info as possible and the ones that want to know every single detail there is. How it felt, how and what they have done. I, personally, did want to know every detail, i would say it helped me. Definitely caused me to imagine how it happened many many times. Sometimes I wonder if i would be better of not knowing.

She does seem remorseful, she did admit it herself and as soon as she could in person. This will ruin things, big time, magic will be forever gone, i promise you. 100% trust will never be back again, but 90-95% is possible. But there will always be that doubt in your head every time she will leave the house. You can definitely live with it, you can become stronger as a couple even in some areas. That's all possible and will tremendously depend on her, the work she is ready to do, but unfortunately for you, you will have to do a lot of work too. It will seem unfear, but that's a reality.

We all said that we will never forgive infidelity. But i tried staying, i stayed for 1.5 years. Did the work, read the books, watched videos, did a lot of talking etc. I personlly couldn't get over it. My psychotherapist said that everybody takes it differently, some can live with it, some cannot. I took it as 10/10. It made me shell of a person for those 1.5 years. It affected my next relationship.

If you can take it, if you can do the work, if you know she will give you the compassion and understanding, that she is ready to do ANYTHING to help you, it might be possible. But keep in mind that post infidelity relationship is very different and have very different rules.

If you will decide to go to psychotherapist, get the one that specializes on infidelity, whatever will be required to reconcile could be considered controlling and unhealthy by regular psychotherapists.

I hope you the best, my friend.

HedgehogUnlikely3269

If you have someone you trust, I recommend that you spend as much time as possible. You say that right now you don't feel anything but sooner or later the feelings are going to hit you and if you keep all that in it will be worse.

Update - Three days later

After reading your comments, I decided to meet with Kate but not read the email.

Kate came to the house yesterday and when I opened the door she looked terrible. She tried to hug me and started mumbling apologies but I stopped her and we sat down to talk.

I started by telling Kate that I would be recording the audio of the conversation and she agreed. I then asked her to explain what happened and told her that I haven't read the email she sent

Kate said she had been at the bar with 2 friends (I know and like both of them) and told me what she had to drink. I was surprised at how little she drank because it was the same amount we would normally drink when going for dinner, a few glasses of wine and a cocktail. She admitted she was only slightly tipsy.

One of her friends Sarah, has a younger brother Max (27M) who came to pick them up around midnight. It's a running joke in their group that Max has had major crush on Kate since highschool and I had heard them joke about this.

The four of them went to get some food and Max then dropped each one off until it was just him and Kate. Kate said she didn't want him to drive the 20 mins to her parents place after working all day so would just order an Uber from his apartment. She went into his apartment to order the Uber but couldn't get one. Max suggested she should crash in his bed and he would take the sofa, he would then drop her off in the morning. Kate refused and continued to try to find an Uber.

They were sitting on Max's bed and he kissed her. She kissed him back and they ended up having sex (she confirmed again that it was consensual) After that she broke down crying from guilt and Max took her home. She cried for another hour then tried to call me to tell me what she had done.

We had to stop a number of times because Kate kept breaking down and crying hysterically. She told me it was a huge mistake, she got caught up in the moment, it was terrible, she only loves me blah blah blah.

After she was done, I told her that her story didn't make sense but it didn't matter at this stage because I was done. This caused another breakdown.

I told her I was going to continue with the divorce preparations but for the next month we would be separated with no contact. I also told her that we would both remain faithful, would get a full STD panel and she would tell our mutual friends and family what happened. If she sticks to these conditions, I would be willing to meet again to see if there was any way forward other than divorce.

She enthusiastically agreed to this but made it clear that she did not expect me to stay faithful to her.

I know many of you will criticise this decision but I need to be sure that divorce is the right option after I have had time to process everything that has happened. I am still 99% sure that is where we are heading but I need to be 100% certain.

Edit: just to clarify because many of you seem to be focusing on this point. I've had mutual friends and my wife's family send me nasty messages, turn up at my house etc because according to Kate, I kicked her out over an argument. My request was that Kate tells them it's because she has been unfaithful, not a full rundown of everything that happened.

Tldr: heard the story, don't believe it but will slow down the divorce process to see if there is any hope for the future

Relevant Comments

Used-Tangerine-117

So there’s a running “joke” about this guy wanting to bang your wife.

Then in the middle of the drive home it is determined that 20 minutes is too far because he “worked all day”.

Then the solution to that ends up with them sitting on his bed…

The logic leaps for this to be believable are miles wide….

Almost 100% the sequence of events did not happen that way.

Absoma

Cheating Partners always offer a hall pass so that they can later say they aren't the only ones who did wrong. Don't take her up on it.

I don't intend to lower myself to her level.

Even if I wanted to I can't see any woman wanting to jump in the sack with an emotionless husk.

REMEMBER - THIS IS A RE-POST SUB. I AM NOT THE ORIGINAL (ORIGINAL) POSTER.

MARKED ONGOING

If you have comments, keep them HERE. DO NOT brigade over to the original post to comment. DO NOT harass the OOP with dms or replies.

I am not OOP. OOP is and they posted in

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

was created by

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: mentions of domestic violence, manipulation, accusations of infidelity

: May 15, 2024

I want to be very sensitive when writing it here, but I have been dealing with unbearable guilt and wanted to know if what I am doing is wrong. I really do not want to trigger anyone, but I will be writing about a very sad situation.

I (33M) have been married to my wife (31F) for 6 years and we have a 3-year-old kid. We are very happy together and I am lucky to be married to a very kind and smart woman. My wife's best friend Ana (fake name for anonymity) has been living with us for the last 6 months.

I wanted to talk about Ana to give a full context of why I am making my decision. Ana is my wife's best friend since school days. Ana was living in the city with her boyfriend, and we live in the suburbs of that city. They seemed happy together and were in relationship for 2 years.

However, my wife noticed bruises on Ana's hand last year and asked her about it. Initially, Ana dismissed it as work related injuries. My wife kept on probing, and we learned that Ana was in an extremely toxic and abusive relationship. Her boyfriend lost his job last year and became extremely controlling and abusive towards her. He constantly accused her of cheating (Ana denies it), made her link her phone messenger to his computer and started micromanaging finances. There was an incident of domestic violence that was the final straw and my wife, and I had to rush to the hospital to look after Ana.

Since Ana's parents are mostly absent from her life, my wife asked me if Ana can stay with us for a few days. We are three people living in a 4-bedroom house and have two spare guest rooms. I of course agreed to it and told her that Ana can stay with us as long as she wants. I think the incident completely broke Ana and she would just start crying randomly and completely shut down. It was really sad to see Ana in that state. She had to leave her job due to mental issues and stayed at home in the room all day.

My wife is very kind and took care of Ana like she was family and made sure she felt loved. Ana is also thankful to my wife and I to help her in her worst time, and helps around the house and with our kid (though we never leave him alone with Ana). Ana, now is coming back to normal, smiles sometimes and has started looking for job again.

Now onto the incident. Last Friday, my wife and I went to work as normal and dropped our son at daycare. I had a doctor's appointment at noon and came straight home from there as I did not have a lot of work in office. I made some lunch, and then went to my room to sit in my bed and reply to all the emails. Ana was in her room, and I did not talk to her after I came home.

Around 2pm, I heard Ana's room door open and her walking in the hallway. Suddenly, our bedroom door opened, and Ana walked in topless and just in her underwear. I was shocked and not sure how long I was staring at her. But after a few seconds, I blurted out "I am sorry!", and she quickly covered herself with her hands. She was apologetic and started explaining herself. She said she just wanted to borrow my wife's clothes because her laundry was unwashed. It was super embarrassing to have conversation with her in that state and I looked away. She again apologized and then went out of the bedroom. The incident lasted less than 2 minutes.

After a while, she again came back into our bedroom (fully dressed) and apologized for the incident. She said it was really embarrassing and she did not know anyone will be home. I said it's ok and I should have told her I am back early from office when I came home. She asked me to not mention about the incident to my wife. She said she feels embarrassed she walked around the hallway without clothes and that I saw her in that state. I said it's ok and lets forget about it.

I have not told my wife about the incident and it's been 5 days. It was just a benign incident, but I somehow feel guilty about the whole thing. I feel more guilty that I am lying to my wife by omission of the truth. However, I feel that if my wife takes it the wrong way, it may strain her relationship with Ana, and I really feel bad for Ana what she had to go through. I also do not want to make Ana uncomfortable in our house by telling my wife about her barging into our bedroom in that state.

Am I the AH in this case for not talking about this incident to my wife. I am afraid that if Ana tells it to her first, it will make me look really bad and guilty. However, if I tell her, I do not want her to blame Ana for any of this and not help her in time of her need. Can someone please help me on how I can tell my wife about this?

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was YTA and was advised to talk with his wife

Relevant Comments:

Multiple redditors advised OOP to talk with his wife and not keep it as a secret from her if the incident was really bothering him

OOP:

Thanks. This is really helpful.

May be I am overthinking this, but I have read that in these situations, the victim's trust in men is very fragile. Would it be horrible if I tell my wife after I told Ana I would not mention about this incident? Should I talk about this with Ana first?

Icy-Doctor23: 

YWBTA if you do not tell your wife. Never keep secrets as a team with your house guest against your wife!

Disastrous-Oven-4465: 

Ana needs to tell her PDQ. She also needs to stay out of your bedroom.

Do NOT keep the secret. That’s what will destroy your relationship.

I’ll try to give Ana a pass but some small part of me thinks she knows what she’s doing and asking you to keep it a secret is part of that.

Editor’s note: PDQ = pretty damn quick

 May 16, 2024

 that happened between my wife's best friend who is currently staying at our house. I was not sure how to bring it up to my wife and you guys really helped me a lot in understanding the urgency of telling my wife. I also got some cool ideas on how to bring up the subject without making it awkward for anyone. For everyone saying Ana was doing it on purpose, I did not agree with it as I am an extremely average looking person and woman don't chase me. However, things since last night have been just crazy and I think I am spiraling a bit. Sorry for the long post.

So, I decided to tell my wife last night as soon as she came home about the incident. I liked the idea of jokingly bringing up casually so that we both can laugh about it and then forget it. Last night, when my wife came home, I made sure I stayed in our bedroom. I asked Ana if she could stay with my kid downstairs.

As my wife was changing, I asked her if Ana still borrow her clothes. Ana had to borrow them regularly when she first moved (long story). My wife told me yes and she has told Ana she can take anything from her closet if she needs it. I asked my wife if Ana told her about the funny incident from Friday. My wife said no, and I told her the whole story about how I came home early, and Ana came in the room almost naked to get her clothes, and how embarrassing it was for both of us.

As my wife was listening to this, she completely froze and turned pale. She started murmuring in Spanish (which is her and Ana's native language). I don't understand Spanish really well, but I understood the words "hombre casado" and "orta vez". I asked her if she is ok, and she sat next to me and asked me to explain everything in detail. I just told her it was nothing and she must have not heard me coming in. I was trying to laugh it off, but my wife had water in her eyes. I kept on telling her it was not a big deal, but she kept on asking me for more details. She asked me how Ana talks to me. I told her that Ana barely talks to me since she moved in except few words here and there.

My wife then asked me about three weeks ago when my wife had gone to visit her parents for four days. Ana did not want to go with her and stayed back. I told her that Ana was just acting normal. She or I would cook dinner after I got home from work while the other took care of the kid. The only thing different was Ana generally spending her evening in her room. However, when I was sitting in the living room watching TV after the kids slept, Ana came and sat on the sofa next to me but did not talk to me. I asked her if she wants me to change the channel or stream something she likes, and she just said she wanted to get out of her room. However, she did not flirt with me or do anything unusual.

I kept on telling my wife that it was just an accident, and I really did not understand why she reacted so emotionally to it. My wife refused to answer and just said ok and agreed with me. However, she told me I should have told her about the incident sooner and should not keep any secrets from her and gave me a big lecture. I told her that I did not think it was a big deal and thought Ana would tell her, but glad I brought it up.

After dinner, my wife messaged Ana to join us, and she came out. While talking, my wife brought up the incident and told Ana that I mentioned about the incident, and she does not need to feel embarrassed. Such things happen when we are all in the same house and is not a big deal. Ana was firstly taken by surprise, but then told my wife she was just scared to tell her because she thought my wife would judge her because of her past. My wife gave her a stare, and she quickly changed the topic.

At night, I asked my wife what the hell was going on. I told her to please not keep any secrets from me, and if she does not tell me, I will directly ask Ana about what her past has got to do with anything. My first guess was Ana might have had a thing for me before we got married or something. But my wife was very reluctant to answer and kept on trying to change the subject and cuddle. However, I kept being persistent, and she finally spilled the beans.

Apparently, when Ana was in her early 20s, she was in relationship with a married coworker who was twice her age. It was a kind of sugar daddy relationship, and he told her that he was in an open relationship (or that's what Ana told my wife) and he would leave his wife in few years once the kids go to college. This makes sense now, because Ana is very pretty (like Miss USA level), and I never understood why she was single for most of the time I knew her. She eventually ended that relationship and started dating her boyfriend Jim, who turned out to be an abusive asshole.

My wife said she suspects Ana was still involved with the older guy while in relationship with Jim, which explains why he kept on accusing her of cheating. That is why my wife became emotional when I told her what Ana did because she was worried Ana has no boundaries regarding married men. My wife said that Ana always looks up to us and praises me for being such a loyal partner and how lucky my wife is.

My wife was a worried initially when she brought Ana home, but her actions from the time when my wife was away clearly show that she respects the boundaries, and it must have been an accident. My wife told me she is grateful I let Ana live in our house and observe what a healthy and happy marriage looks like.

Today morning was even more weird. I got up early as I could not sleep well and went down for a cup of coffee. After 5 minutes Ana walked into the kitchen and told me she was relieved my wife did not overreact to Friday incident. She said I am a good husband and gave me a hug and peck on the cheeks. She has never hugged me in the last 6 months. She seemed to be in a happy mood and was making small talk with me while having coffee.

I cannot believe my wife did not tell me such a huge detail about Ana for all these years. It's completely possible she cheated all through the relationship with Jim, and my wife is just covering for her all along. She even kept it a secret from me (after giving me a lecture about how we should never have secrets), and I don't know what else she is hiding. Everything just seems very confusing at this point. I feel angry at my wife for lying to me all these years for Ana. I also now see Ana differently. I am also worried that me trivializing the incident to my wife might have sent wrong signals to Ana.

Relevant Comments:

Tundra-Queen8812: 

Ana needs to go before her own messed up issues lead her to further mess with your marriage. She was testing OP again with the hug and kiss on the cheek and I didn't see OP writing that he told his wife about that new development. She's gotta go before she pushes to the next level.

OOP:

Yes. I am also a bit mad at myself for trying to casually describe the event as some of the redditors advised and not talk about the fact that she was in the room for a lot longer. I was worried that my wife would be pissed at me. Now I wish I told her all the details and did not make it sound trivial. My wife now trusts Ana and I am getting more uncomfortable.

Multiple redditors urger OOP to tell his wife about the hug and kiss

  OOP:

I agree with the hug and kiss part here. It is not uncommon for my wife's friends to kiss me on the cheek when they meet me. I am not from that culture, and initially used to make me uncomfortable. But, something about today morning with Ana waking up so early, coming down in her bed clothes and sitting with me rubbed me the wrong way. I am not able to point out exactly what, but she was acting differently (for a lack of better word, she looked happy for the first time since she moved into our place).

I have not told my wife yet. Things were a bit icy between us since yesterday as I am still upset at her for keeping secrets from me for all these years. I know its Ana's personal life, but I feel a bit betrayed that for all these years, she knew Ana was with a married man and never even mentioned it to me. We had a talk in the evening, and she apologized, but then we both dropped the subject and took our son to the playground as the weather was finally nice and had an amazing time.

However, I plan to tell her as soon as we both are alone at night. As I said in the comments, I do not think she will mind since it's not uncommon for her friends to give a quick peck on cheeks when saying hello. Infact, I was not comfortable with it at the start, and now am used to it. Her mom, cousins, friends, everyone kisses me. There are also weird rules, where married women like my wife just hug, but non-married friends give a kiss (unless you family). Also, only girls give a kiss, but men don't kiss girls on cheeks (I learned that the hard way). I am not Latino (Columbian to be exact) and may be someone who is familiar can explain the rules here so people who don't know the tradition won't misinterpret it as anything sexual.

Also, I never keep anything from my wife, and hence I felt so guilty about my actions over the last week. I am sure I will mention it to her before the end of the day.

June 25, 2024

I wrote a few posts a month ago regarding my wife's friend Ana accidently walking into our bedroom topless to get my wife's clothes while I was in the room. We addressed the issue the next day, but I learned more about Ana's past and why my wife was uncomfortable due to the situation. My wife and I talked to Ana and told her it was not a big deal and we all decided to move on from the incident.

After I posted the update, lot of you advised me to tell my wife about Ana hugging and kissing me (on the cheek) the following morning. I felt uncomfortable with the situation and the comments really made me nervous. Most of you were reading my post as a telenovela or a start of a porn movie and the comments were really not helping calm me down. You may not like this part, but I just decided to get off Reddit for a while and try to think through the situation on how to tell my wife. I felt that my wife treats Ana as family and just like her sisters. I have known my wife's sisters since they were in their early teens. I have had similar incidents happen with them all the time, and I never made a big deal out of it. There were so many times we had to tell them to keep their tops on when sitting in our backyard pool area when they were younger, and God knows how allergic they are to wearing pants around the house. However, I just treat them as they are my sisters. I decided I need to do the same with Ana and treat her like my wife's sisters. I also wanted to communicate that clearly to both Ana and my wife so they we don't get in such uncomfortable situations anymore.

That night, I was talking to my wife and decided to put a positive spin on the incident that happened early morning. I asked my wife if she noticed anything different with Ana. I told her that she woke up early with me today and greeted me with a hug and kiss and also helped me make breakfast. I told her that I am glad she finally looks happy and is returning back to her old self and how proud I am of my wife that she is such a kind-hearted person who helped a friend in need. My wife seemed happy with my comment and started saying that she also noticed Ana was chattier in the morning and was cleaning her room and talking about applying for jobs again. I told my wife that I feel Ana is like one of her sisters and I am happy she also considers us as family and is comfortable around us.

The next few weeks were great. Ana started waking up early in the morning around the time I woke up (5am). We always had coffee together and had nice chats. She also helped me with breakfast and getting lunch boxes ready. She asked me if she can join my gym and if I can teach her some resistance training exercises. Her therapist told her it would be good for her to workout. So, we started going to gym 3-4 times a week in the evening before picking my son from daycare. It's nice to have a regular gym partner and someone to geek out about the daily protein intake. I also told her when we were cooking that she is so much less annoying than my SILs and I wish she was my SIL. She just smiled at the comment.

Ana has already had a few interviews and also contacted her old job who seem interested in hiring her back. She told us two weeks ago that she will be looking for apartments. We already saw two apartments in our suburb and hopefully should finalize that soon. My wife jokingly told her that her dating prospects are going to be bleak if she stays in our suburb, but Ana told us that she is going to stay away from relationships at least for a while now and work on herself. Plus, she enjoys our gym and loves spending time with our son.

About the hugging and kissing, I think I have decoded it. A hug from Ana is normal and I get one every morning. However, I think she kisses people on cheeks as a way to say thank you. Things are really looking positive for Ana and we are very happy that she was able to get thru a bad patch in her life. She had isolated herself from everyone after the incident seven months ago. However, she plans to join my wife and son on her summer trip to my in-laws in few weeks, unless there are any updates on the employment front. I just hope the best for her and am glad that I did not make a big deal out of the situation. I am also glad to have such a kind and understanding wife who was there for her friend in need.

Relevant Comments:

SaraLebowski:

If this works out for you guys, that's great. For me it's such huge red flag, that she wakes up same time as you, joined the same gym as you and want's to spend a lot of time with you plus is looking at places to rent near you. Maybe it's because I've seen too many stories like that end in a horrible way. Again, if it works out for you guys it's great, to me it's one red flag after another and seems like a start of something fishy.

Anisaxxx:

I felt uncomfortable reading how much she’s inserted herself in your life. There’s still red flags waving and you’re either stupidly oblivious or you’re enjoying the attention that you choose to be oblivious.

Tall-Negotiation6623:

You honestly still don’t see it, do you? Waking up early at the same time as you, going to the gym with you and cooking with you. She’s spending an awful lot of time with you. And the difference is she isn’t one of your SILs but your wife’s friend. A friend that has a past going after married men. You sound naive to not at least put down some fucking boundaries with her. I don’t even get why you won’t do that. It’s so stupid. On every post people kept warning you and you refuse to listen. I hope, for your wife’s sake, that Ana doesn’t try anything. But remember that if she does and your marriage dies because of it, you and your unwillingness to handle it, will be the sole fucking reason.

grayblue_grrl:

Oh sure... this is going to end well.

We won't do the immediate attack head on because he won't fall for that.

So we do the slow build.

A little bit here.

A little more there.

As soon as she gets her own place, things are going to change.

I don't understand how people can not see what it happening in front of their eyes.

Poor dude is going to be in her bed and wondering what happened.

here4mysteries:

I have no dog in this fight and I’m wildly uncomfortable with how much Ana has inserted herself into your life and your daily routine and how you have let her do so. It does not come across as innocent, she has NO reason to hug or kiss you ever. Why is the apartment hunting a “we” thing? Why are you talking down about your wife’s relatives to this person? Why are you spending so much of your time every day with this woman?

You are having an emotional affair with this woman. And it is not gonna take much for it to turn physical and you will be back here saying you have no idea how this happened.

You need to get back to doing these things with your wife and this woman needs to not be part of your life or you will be very sorry in the end. She knows exactly what she’s doing and she is playing the long game.

ETA: Ohhhh. And now reading previous posts, I see Ana has gone after married men before! Omg. You really can’t be this clueless?

Editor's Note: OOP claims this is his last post, but given the comments and my own intuition, this story does not seem finished. However, since this is a new update, it is marked new update rather than ongoing.

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

I am not OOP. OOP is and they posted on

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

 and  originally posted by 

and originally posted by

TRIGGER WARNING: Infidelity, harassment, emotional manipulation and abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, extreme entitlement, parental abandonment, assault, vandalism, child abuse

Editor's Note: This saga has gotten so long (and the last post was in November 2023) so I will make a TL;DR of the previous BoRUs before getting into OOP's (hopefully) last update. To skip directly to the update, look for the *********

TL;DR Begins in 2020-November 2022

OOP is in his 30s and his younger brother, Dan, is 29. Dan is married with 4 kids. SIL refuses to work, so Dan can't afford to live anywhere but with his parents, in a crowded 3 bedroom home. Dan is the golden child of the family. At the pandemic's start, OOP lost his job and couldn't afford his place. Knowing he was about to be homeless, he bought a camper and asked his parents if he could park it on their property. They wanted a high rent. After a few months, OOP finally gets a job at a warehouse that even lets him park his camper there. He works his tail off and moves up in the company, saving his money. Eventually, he buys a house. His family shows up unannounced and SIL and Dan look at the house with greedy eyes. Dan wants to move his whole family in, rent-free. OOP tells him no and SIL attacks him. OOP threatens to call the police and they leave. OOP posts the story first on social media, controlling the narrative among extended family. A week later, the family returns, demanding OOP change his mind, but he doesn't. A week after that, Dan and SIL show up with a moving truck and drill out his locks, ready to move in. OOP shows up, quickly gets back in his truck, and calls the police. Chaos ensues, but OOP finally gets them to leave with police help.

TL;DR November 2022 - Just after Christmas 2022

OOP has a Christmas party at his new house for his extended family, but doesn't invite his immediate family. It's going well and he's having a good time, when his immediate family shows up. Extended family calls them out for their actions and OOP tells SIL she needs to get a job if she wants to be able to afford a house. Their oldest son (7) started kicking OOP and yelling. They finally leave. Later on SIL floats the idea of the parents getting a camper and moving in it, giving SIL's family full run of parents' house. The parents shot that idea down quickly.

TL;DR Winter 2023-Sometime later in 2023

OOP's parents ask to meet in public. Dan is with them and they ask OOP to help Dan get an apartment, cosigning and helping to pay for it. OOP says no, pointing out that they wouldn't help him when he was homeless and have always favored Dan. He asks his family if they think he's rich and he breaks down his budget so they can see he isn't. They eventually give up and leave. SIL has been complaining about the parents and OOP on social media, but OOP has ignored it. OOP decides to rent out the other two rooms in his house to friends. His family takes it badly, sending his mom to beg him to let Dan and his family rent from him. OOP points out that Dan broke into his house and he would never rent to him anyway. OOP finally gets cameras for his house. Dan discovers SIL has been cheating and the youngest child isn't his. When Dan confronted her about the affair, she attacked him, and their eldest got hurt trying to intervene. Police were called and she was arrested. Once she was released, she went to OOP's house to call him out on his Reddit posts, causing all of this mess. She shoves OOP and threatens him. He says he will call the police and has it on his doorbell cam. OOP decides to take the video from the previous year and the doorbell cam footage to the police and also gives the footage to Dan's divorce lawyer. After all of SIL's shenanigans, the parents seem to come out of the fog and have started attending church. They saw a video post describing the saga so far and came to OOP to give a genuine apology.

TL;DR Fall 2023

OOP gets into the details of Dan's divorce. SIL actually had her affair partner testify. Dan ended up taking on a lot of the debt to get his name off the birth certificate of the baby but didn't have to pay alimony since SIL ended up working for her family. She got partial custody of the other children, but she rarely sees them. Dan gets depressed and drunk after the divorce and ends up driving to OOP's house. OOP berates him for driving drunk but takes him to commiserate in his camper. It becomes sort of a bonding/healing moment for the brothers. Later on, Dan asks if he can borrow OOP's camper so his kids can have more room in their parent's house while he tries to pay down the debts he took on in the divorce. OOP agrees, telling him he will be responsible for any damages. Things have started getting a little better between OOP, Dan, and their parents, but OOP sees the biggest improvement in the kids' behavior. SIL looks down on Dan for moving into the camper and OOP suspects she egged his truck on Halloween, but whoever did it was bundled up in sweats.

*****************************************************************************************

New Update

June 25, 2024

To start this off. I came back after all this time to find 500 messages in my inbox, and 130 unanswered PMs. Please don't PM me anymore. There's just too many to answer. So if you PM'd me and I clicked Ignore, I'm sorry. Just know that's why. It was not personal. I just felt too overwhelmed to reply to so many. But that's not what brought me back to Reddit. I'd decided to stay away at least a year because my posts were not exactly boosting family morale. So I didn't log in for quite some time.

But then the other day my brother Dan spotted a video with an unbelievably similar to mine in far too many ways. Only it was about an OP with a twin sister instead of a SIL. But it had so much of the same. Entitled narcissistic parents, Guy treated like shit all his life and then rendered homeless, golden child sibling, keeping the favoritism a closely guarded secret from family while the OP was growing up, sister still in her twenties has three kids and was pregnant with a fourth, sister's eldest son attacks OP, and above all them trying to steal the OP's house by breaking in while he wasn't home. So many parts were nearly identical. Even two lines like "Suck it up" and "My house is not up for grabs" were in the video.

My parents and brother are frankly pissed, and I wasn't happy seeing the video either. We've all been trying hard to get past our previous family dynamic and what Ex-SIL put us all through. You can imagine it took a lot for me to let go of my grudges. But in a year my parents and Dan have improved more than I'd seen in my entire life before that. And I love me niblings to pieces. So whoever wrote that copycat story, congratulations, you just sent my entire family right back into needing therapy.

And yes, my family is aware I'm making this post. Now with that rant over, here's what I hope to be my final update.

Now for what was stated in the title. I had a few nay-sayers before. But Dan kept his word. My camper was returned to me a few months ago, and in good condition. Dan took good care of it, and thoroughly cleaned it before giving it back. He and our father also resealed the roof on it once while it was in their care. Inside it's no worse for wear than it was when I was living in it. Only I got it back smelling like pine cleaner.

There was some minor drama while Dan was living in my camper from a neighbor right behind them. Not quite sure she qualifies as a Karen. But she was close enough. She started yelling at them from over the fence about the camper. And started threatening police. My brother and father went off on her, and then explained Dan was living in the camper so his son could have his bedroom. Well the neighbor still wasn't happy, but stopped with the threats. My father talked to her husband later though, and he was bull mad at her. Then he apologized on her behalf, and said Dan was doing a good thing by giving up his room to his son. The neighbor husband also congratulated Dan on kicking out Ex-SIL, and said he was always afraid to mention before. But she was just a horrid woman. We can all agree on that now. So yeah, the neighbors aren't a problem anymore.

Dan and our father managed to get some money together on the side, and bought a slightly bigger camper to set up in our parents' back yard. We needed my truck just to move it. But we got it in there. It's basically the best Dan can do right now till the credit debts his ex piled up are paid off. And even then, he's got the future of his kids to plan for. He may be living in that camper for the next ten years. But it's preferable to how it was when he was married. His ex wife certainly can't and won't be contributing to college funds for the kids. Except maybe for her affair baby.

Dan's camper is admittedly better than mine, and it's newer, bigger, and has it's own bathroom. Mine does not. Although Dan never really uses said bathroom. It's basically become a closet since the toilet and shower are so tiny. If he needs to take a leak or something, he just goes in the house. Dan and I had a joking laugh about me being jealous he's got the better hobo-house. And we bantered like sarcastic gentlemen about it. He's kitted out his camper with some better amenities. Like a flat screen TV complete with streaming, video games, and DVD. He said it feels like he really has his own place now, even though he's just in the back yard. And he's much happier now that he's divorced.

Dan tells me one day he'll get a truck too, just so he can move the camper on his own someday. But for now he's sticking with his minivan for the sake of his kids. So his camper is sitting pretty where it is, and mine is back in my back yard where it belongs. Though it's not gone unused. I temporarily rented it to a cousin who moved into the area for work. And they were only in the camper about a month before finding their own apartment. Other than that, it serves as a guest house when needed. Relatives come by to use it when in town so as to not need a motel. My nephew has come over to stay in it a few times for fun as well. His sisters don't really have an interest. The camper the closest he's ever been to camping. Same here sadly, because I didn't buy that camper to camp, but to live.

As for my parents. They've gotten therapy. My mother got medicated for her mental problems, and fully acknowledges her terrible past mistakes as a parent with all of the favoritism, as does my father. My father is still awkward around me. But he's been fairly active in his church, and is working hard to rebuild the family reputation as best he can. And Dan has cut back on drinking a lot since he isn't so stressed out anymore. He's even taken up exercising. He's in pretty good shape now. And he told me his ex-wife saw the picture of him he posted online after shedding 20 pounds and called him to compliment. He didn't take the bait.

As for the holidays, my parents, brother and niblings all came to my Christmas Eve party last year, along with most of the other relatives who came the year prior. No problems at all, save for the fact none of them could stay the night in my spare rooms anymore since I rented them out. Both of my tenants were away seeing their own families too. Things went swimmingly. Not only was Ex-SIL not invited, she wouldn't have been able to crash the party anyway because of my restraining order against her. But she also barely made any attempt to spend time with her other kids either. She only bothered to see them twice a month at best. She didn't even send them any gifts for Christmas or birthdays since being outed as a cheater. And the kids were initially pretty upset about that. But now they just don't care.

Ex-SIL I guess decided she was gonna try to live like she was single again, despite having a baby at home. And it didn't go well because life gave her one hell of a cheese slap. On New Years, Ex-SIL went out late to party like it was 1999. And she got pulled over by a cop on her way home. She got arrested for DUI, and her car was impounded. She called Dan while being arrested begging him to come get her car to keep it from going to impound. He told her he was not helping her, and she could deal with it herself. Dan has drank and drove, so it was kinda a little hypocritical. But this woman put him through so much, I don't blame him for rebuffing her.

Some flying monkey of Ex-SIL's called Dan to berate about him being a terrible person. Pretty sure this was the same woman who called me a while back. Dan had none of her shit, and went off on her with a long tirade about his ex's cheating, what happened in the divorce, and that he has no sympathy for his ex since she left him with mounds of credit card debt and she does nothing for their kids anymore. The flying monkey didn't call back. We still don't know who she was. But Dan said she sounded like a religious nut.

Ex-SIL went to court, and she plead guilty for the DUI. Dan found this out because she called him claiming that because of the DUI, she wouldn't be seeing her other kids any time soon. She told him she was sentenced to take a six month DUI class, in which time her license is suspended until completion. And she won't be allowed to drink at all. Which is the part she was most upset about. I've heard of these classes before. They make you take regular and at times random urine tests, and when you finally get your license back, you have to have a camera and breathalyzer installed in your car for a year. Also increased insurance rates for the DUI on record. Ex-SIL has not been having a fun time. But I have no pity for her. I don't drink and drive.

Sadly that's all the info I have on Ex-SIL, as she's kept minimal contact with Dan for some time now. And eventually she'll probably stop contacting him all together unless absolutely necessary. I don't know anything else about SIL's parents, or her affair baby. Even Dan doesn't know. But I do still have a bit of info on someone else. Remember Ex-SIL's affair partner, the bronze tongued lout? Well he made his social media public again. And he doesn't seem to acknowledge the existence of Ex-SIL or his child at all. Dan tried to message him, and promptly got an immediate block. So the guy is just being an ass and acting like his shit don't stink. Whatever. His knocking up Ex-SIL got her out of the family anyway. So in a way, we're all thankful to that AP bastard.

That's everything I have. And hopefully won't need to come back again. Unless my truck gets egged again next Halloween.

Relevant Comments:

:

I've silently followed your stories from the start. I'm happy to see how things have progressed since. While I know its a long road until things are fully repaired, if ever, I am glad your parents have acknowledged what they did and are actively trying to fix it, Dan has stepped up and now you two can even banter, and the fact the kids enjoy you is wonderful.

Honestly, I'm happiest to hear about your bond with the nibblings. The fact that your nephew wants to come over to their uncle's house to "camp" is just wonderful.

I hope ex-SIL either wakes the hell up and shapes up for the kids, or she stays the hell away.

Anyways, hopefully, the future is less drama and more happy times!

Hopefully, I will not see a post from you again. And I mean that with the best of intentions.

:

This is as wholesome an ending as it can get. It’s good to see a family dynamic being repaired; kudos to your parents for doing the necessary work to realize how much damage they caused and to your brother for getting his life back on track.

:

I’m sorry your “drama saga” ended up being copied for “entertainment.”

However, I am glad that things are improving for you, your parents, your brother, and your niblings. It sounds like the toxicity was your ex-SIL and it shows because with her gone life has gotten better for the rest of you. I feel sorry for all of the kids, but they might be better off in the future without her.

Thank you for this (hopefully, final) update!

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . They posted in and .

Thanks to and for the rec!

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. Latest update is 7 days old per the rules of the sub.

Mood Spoiler: happy-ish ending

Original : June 11, 2024

I kind of know I am the asshole, but I need to know how bad it was.

My brother is 29 and has been with Lia for about 2 years. We all like her; she is super nice. I am getting married next April and sent an invite to my brother's apartment. We decided to send invites to households and not individuals. For example, our aunt received an invite for her family and not for each individual.

Last Thursday, we met at my parents' place. It was just the core family because of some tax reasons, lol. While there, I asked my brother about Lia's dietary restrictions. I know that she is a vegetarian for health reasons and that she cannot have certain raw vegetables.

He said that she wasn't going to come and that he was taking his girl best friend, Amanda, instead. Now, their relationship is weird af. Amanda has always been stringing my brother along, in my opinion. He always denies having feelings for her, but let's be real here.

Amanda would date other guys, blow off my brother, then when things were on the decline with her partners, she would be attached to him again. Her last boyfriend broke up with her right around the time my brother, his then ex-girlfriend, Amanda, and her ex were supposed to travel to Spain. What did my idiot brother do? Go with Amanda alone because Amanda was uncomfortable with his ex-girlfriend. Obviously, he acted blindsided when his girlfriend broke up with him. I didn't even say anything anymore because it's all so weird.

So, when he said that, I asked if Lia already had other plans. But my brother said that Amanda had asked if she could come because it would be an opportunity to finally see the old gang (we were in the same friend group in high school). I told him that I would have invited Amanda if I wanted her there. Amanda is mean and cold. She always makes disparaging comments about other girls. At every event, around one hour in, she will make some sort of scene that either has her running away crying or sitting mad at a table telling everyone to "leave her alone" and then making a cryptic comment about something "hurting her."

I told my brother I was revoking his plus one and Amanda was NOT coming to our wedding. He accused me of being misogynistic and bigoted because I don't understand opposite-sex friendships. Which is BS. My husband has a female childhood friend who is his best woman. I love her too and she has been amazing. AND SHE RESPECTS FUCKING BOUNDARIES. She always includes me and made a huge effort when I started dating my fiancé to integrate me into the friend group.

Anyway, I said my decision was final. He could take it or leave it, but I would be inviting Lia myself because I like her. He screamed at me and told me to keep out of his business. I said to get rid of his weird fucking feelings for Amanda. He is mad at me. My dad said is none of our deal. My mom is furious with my brother. So Aita?

Edit: to answer some questions

The invite was addressed to the "smith's." Funnily enough, Lia had the same last name as us. Granted, we have one of the most common last names.

Yes, they live together.

The tax thing is nothing huge. My parents have a small buisness but are really bad at keeping track of all their receipts. So every month we go and help them. We digitalis the receipts and put them in a bookkeeping software for the accountant

Amanda is in the comments. Say hi!

The (Alleged) Amanda Comments:

Editor's Note: the account replying is a well-established account on AITA and commented on many posts before commenting on OOP's- it was not a new account nor a throwaway. Do NOT DM this person or harass them in any way- this goes against the rules of the sub. I am only including this because it is relevant to what OOP wrote and pointed out.

Excellent-Count4009: YTA. If he has any sense, he simply will not come to your wedding - that's the correct way to handle AHs like you.

And - if he has any sense, he will go no contact with you AH.

OOP: Yeah I wouldn't mind lol

Excellent-Count4009: Well, if you don't mind your brother and dad not coming to your wedding, that's fine.

But the way you handled it makes you the AH: NOT inviting your brother would have been fine. Giving him an invite, trying to dominate him and decide his relationships for him, and then uninviting his +1 because YOU want to decide who his partner is - that's overstepping.

OOP: My dad is not mad at me, dude lol. He thinks it's unnecessary drama. He doesn't like Amanda either so he is just keeping out

"Amanda" replied to several other commenters. I included a few here:

Commenter: NTA your brother is though. He needs a huge reality check this chick Amanda sounds super problematic and toxic and sinxce it is your wedding you are absolutely within your rights to decide who gets to be there and who doesn‘t. Hope your brother will realize how manipulative Amanda is and cut her from his life before she manages to destroy even more for him.

Amanda: All of that is NONE of OP's business.

SHE gave him a +, and revoked it. She is an AH for intruding into his relationship

Tihs willb reak up her family.

Let'S see if her brother and dad will be the only ones not coming.

Commenter: It’s confusing then why he and Amanda aren’t together. They seem to be into each other. Or does he really like Amanda but she uses him as a placeholder and doesn’t reciprocate his feelings? If that’s the case, he needs to put distance there so he can move forward or you’re right, he will be alone until Amanda gets married to someone else.

Amanda: What do you esxpect? HE has an aH sister.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: [...] You can invite Lia yourself but by the sounds of your brothers behaviour who knows if they will even still be together by then. Even if they are I wouldn’t count on her sticking around if he keeps prioritizing Amanda over her.

OOP: I like Lia like genuinely as a friend and would like her there. I should honestly just have invited her officially, too. I should have honestly have been able to forsee David would do this.

Commenter: How does Lia feel about Amanda?

OOP: Well she feels hyper insecure about Amanda.

Commenter: She should, because this behavior is a pretty obvious sign that should Amanda give him a chance, he will cheat on Lia in a second, and has probably done so with his exes.

OOP: Agree 100 percent. If Amanda wrote him right now that she wants him, he would drive pantless to her place

On OOP's brother:

I gave given up talking to him years ago. I always feel sorry for the amazing girls he brings home, tho. I still talk to his ex. She helped me with .y career. Lol. He is going to end up alone

Commenter: But just to be safe, tell Lia she is invited even if she isnt with your brother anymore at the time of the wedding because "lets be real here" she can do alot better and its just a matter of time before she realises that and dumps him. Let Lia have a +1 so she can enjoy herself :) That would make her feel truely welcome.

Your brother is a major asshole, and I dont blame you at all for not wanting his side piece at your wedding. I also wouldnt blame you if you didnt want him at your wedding.

OOP: She can so much better. On paper, my brother is pretty great. Amazing job, financial stability, he volunteers at animal shelters and cares about his appearance. And when he is not drooling for Amanda, he is generally really nice and loving. But bro.

Why aren't he and Amanda together???

It's so weird, man! Idk. She is jealous when anyone spends time with him. I once told him to ask her to have a one-sided open relationship where she gets to do what she wants, and he waits at home for her because he already does that lol

Commenter: Did he even told Lia she was invited? There might be a possibility that he’s lying and the girlfriend didn’t even know about the wedding

OOP: She did not in fact know

Commenter: How did she learn about it ? From you or from him (for damage control)?

OOP: I called Lia in front of him, asking her about it. She had no idea

OOP is voted NTA

Update : June 25, 2024 (2 weeks later)

I listen to Two Hot Takes every day on my commute, so it was a huge surprise when you responded to my post. Thanks for your insights. (Editor's Note- tiktok , youtube video segment )

Regarding the invitation, I now realize I shouldn't have phrased it as inviting a single person. I thought inviting households would be cute and less pressure for guests. Lesson learned, LOL.

Here's an update I'd like to share with you.

After the confrontation, I didn't hear from Lia or my brother for about two days. During that time, Amanda reached out to me upset about my Reddit post. She called me an asshole and insisted that "Lia is not the only special woman in my brother's life." She argued neither Lia nor I have the right to be selfish with my brother's time, asserting she existed before Lia or any of his girlfriends and would outlast them all. She ended with a presumptuous statement that she would surely see me at my wedding. I was fuming!

I chose not to engage with her other remarks but instead sent her a clear message: "Hello Amanda. You are not invited to my wedding. If you want to see 'the old gang,' please organize a coffee date when they're all in town. Should you appear at the wedding, you will be escorted out, peacefully by staff or with police involvement. Please refrain from contacting me or my husband."

Amanda responded with more emails, mostly vague threats and name-calling, and turned to Instagram to indirectly target me. She tagged me in posts, making my username small so people wouldn't notice me tagged but would see it in my notifications.

She also used an "ask me anything" sticker on her Instagram story, where I'm pretty sure she asked herself leading questions. Highlights included questions like, "What's the perfect outfit for a wedding?" with a photo of herself in a dress captioned, "This... but sadly I'll never get to use it :)" and "What is your pet peeve?" followed by a rant about nosy people who think they have the right to control others.

She flooded her story with "sad quotes" about no longer having a "girls' girl." She tagged me in every single one. Of course, I screenshotted them all, lol.

Some friends reached out when Amanda started spreading a different story, claiming I originally invited her but later disinvited her because Lia hates her and pressured my brother to do the same.

The cool part? Not one person believed her. Many of our old high school friends have cut ties with Amanda, and the few guys who still talk to her are more linked to my brother. They reached out to let me know Amanda was spreading rumors. The girls in the group blocked her after she vented to them, which led Amanda to start bombarding their phones. My brother panicked, thinking I'd started a campaign against her.

Speaking of my brother, he called and texted me multiple times, furious that I excluded Amanda and even blamed me for any harm she might come to. He went as far as calling our mother, saying Amanda was depressed and threatening never to forgive me if something happened to her. My mom advised him to call for a welfare check if he was genuinely concerned because he, as an individual with no training, wouldn't be equipped to handle such situations.

The biggest development is that my brother got kicked out of his shared apartment. Lia called me to say their relationship might not continue and that she might not feel comfortable coming to the wedding. I understood her decision and offered an open ear. We met for coffee, and she recounted their ugly fight. Without going into all the details, Lia didn't hold back. She made my brother read every single text out loud between him and Amanda and sent a copy to one of her male friends, who replied, "Lia, WTF? This is not okay." She used this as evidence that their interactions were, at best, inappropriate and, realistically, an emotional affair. When my brother begged her to stay, she asked him why, knowing he would always choose Amanda. He swore he wouldn't, but his immediate response to a hysterical call from Amanda about "me bullying her" proved otherwise. Lia left while he comforted Amanda in another room. Later, she texted him that he needed to move out while she was away. It's her apartment, and she didn't want to see him until certain conditions were met: cutting Amanda out completely and seeking therapy to address his unhealthy patterns. The fight spanned two intense days.

Lia found solace in your podcast and the comments here. She described it as surreal but helpful. She sends her greetings and wants people in similar situations to know a few things: don't fear being alone because being with someone who's not good for you will make you feel lonelier than being single, never enter a relationship with a "I can fix him" mentality as it usually ends in heartbreak, prioritize yourself, and while trying to work things out is noble, don't depend on it as the solution.

That's pretty much it. It sounds convoluted, like a soap opera, but my day-to-day life has surprisingly been calm. I think my brother really needs to mature and either commit to Amanda or realize he's being strung along.

And to Amanda: Please grow up and leave me alone

Relevant Comment:

Commenter: Well is ur dad still coming to your wedding? I’m so glad Lia dumped your bro.

OOP: Yes, of course. Also They are on a break (please insert Ross gallery meme here )

The mods on Two Hot Takes leave a note on the post:

[Mod note]: Can confirm that someone was reporting this post and a bunch of comments for nonsense reasons when it first got traction. So, a not-so-happy "Hi Amanda!" from our moderation team.

I am not OOP. That is and they posted on

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

Mood Spoiler: Ending is pretty unresolved and unhappy for OOP for now

June 21, 2024

My dad (45M) is really into cars. His dad (my grandpa) is also into cars. My grandpa used to work in a mechanic shop and my dad learned to work on cars with him. They can talk for hours about different car models and engines and tell stories about cars they’ve worked on. I (17M) am not really into them. My dad tried to get me into fixing up cars with him but it just doesn’t click with me. I know basic stuff like how to change a tire or oil and how to jumpstart a battery because he taught me and I’m glad for it. But talking about cars and working on them for fun I’m just not into. I always thought my dad was okay with me not being a car guy.

Five months ago we got these new neighbors that moved next door. It’s a married couple and their nephew Mason (16M) lives with them. Mason and I go to school together. At first I helped show him around school until he got comfortable and made his own friends. He and I talk still but we don’t hang out. Mason is like my dad and grandpa. He’s obsessed with talking about cars and has a whole list of cars he wants to drive and own one day. He would come over with his aunt and uncle and a lot of times Mason and his uncle would hang out with my dad in the garage. Sometimes I’d be there too but usually it’s just them.

My dad usually works on his project car in the garage every other weekend for a couple hours. For Father’s Day this year he said he wanted to be able to work on his car all day uninterrupted, which my mom agreed too. Whenever he works on his car he leaves the garage door open. Mason has been coming by when my dad works on it for the past couple months and he talks to my dad and sometimes helps him out with smaller stuff related to the car. I don’t really care. My dad does other stuff with me. But on Sunday I went to go ask him something when he was in the garage with Mason. The door from the house to the garage was open and him and Mason were talking. I was waiting by the door for a chance to speak because I didn’t wanna interrupt their conversation. My dad was praising Mason for whatever he did. Mason said he had done that with his dad and my dad told Mason his dad would be proud of him. Then he said Mason is the kind of son that he wanted to have.

Idk why but that really fucking hurt to hear. I never thought that me not being into cars was an issue for my dad. I knew he still loved me but I guess it’s not enough. I didn’t say anything and just went back to my room. He doesn’t know that I know what he said. I’ve been ignoring him since then. I still answer him when he asks me questions or tells me to do something but I just don’t want to talk to him just because anymore. Him and my mom (43F) have asked me if something is wrong but I lie and say no. I thought they would just let it go but a few days ago I messed up and told my older sister (19F) what happened because she kept asking and now she’s not talking to my dad either and she’s being a lot meaner to him about it. But I made her promise not to tell anyone the reason so she’s keeping her word.

It’s really tense in our house right now. My parents keep asking us why we’re mad at our dad but neither of us are answering and idk I feel like maybe I should just let it go and go back to the way things were. I really don’t want to though when my dad is disappointed in who I am. AITAH if I don’t forgive my dad?

Relevant Comments:

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“Dad, I get that you’re disappointed that I’m not into cars like you and grandpa. It’s just not my thing, but I do appreciate how you taught me the basics. But when I went to the garage to see you on Father’s Day, I heard you tell Mason that he was the kind of son you wanted/wished you had. Do you have any idea how hurtful that is? On Father’s Day I got to hear my dad tell someone else that they were the type of kid he wanted. So yeah. I’m hurt. You said it so casually. And on Father’s Day.”

NTA.

:

I think that if he mentions that it was Father's Day his dad will focus on that and the fact that it was Mason there messing with a car and not his OP, so it could get all like "Well if you had even tried maybe I wouldn't say it" and shit, the dad sounds like a AH, so maybe he should not give his dad that power.

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The day the dad asked to be left ALONE to work on his car? Yeah why wouldn’t his son be there

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It also struck me that the dad specifically asked to be left alone to work on his car uninterrupted on Fathers Day, but happily lets Mason interrupt him on Fathers Day and then drops the little gem about wanting a son like Mason. What an awful situation!

Many Redditors advised OOP to talk to either his mom, dad or both about the issue:

:

30 years ago in the heat of the moment, my dad yelled at me and called a lazy fat ass. It actually still comes up in my therapy sessions sometimes. The situation was simply that I didn't want to leave the living room when my mom's friends were coming over. I locked myself in my room for 2 days and refused to speak to him. When I opened the door he was devastated, he knew I was hurt and that his words were the cause.

He did what he could to make it right, but I still hear those words in my head sometimes. Telling him isn't going to make those words go away, but saying it and giving him a chance to hear how it made you feel is the only way you'll start the process of healing from it.

As others have mentioned it may have been said to make the neighbor feel better, but that doesn't excuse the hurt it caused. Holding it in will only make your feelings and emotions grow.

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As in MANY relationships, lack of communication is the fatal error. It can't get better, your dad can't learn, until you tell him how hurt you are.

Have a family sit down, and have it out with him. CALMLY tell him what you heard, and how it made you feel. Ask your sister to not interject, as this is between you and your dad.

If you handle this like an adult, this should be a wake up call for your dad. If he refuses to acknowledge how hurt you are, then he would be past the point of forgiveness. Hopefully he will realize how strongly you feel about this.

Avoiding this discussion resolves nothing. It just pushes this issue down the road while your negative feelings continue to grow, until at some time not of your choosing you randomly explode like a volcano. Better to handle it sooner, in a controlled fashion.

NTA, but please tackle this issue directly, ASAP.

:

NTA for anything that you are feeling or not being able to forgive him.

However, you should probably give him the chance to apologize and make amends for hurting you. From what you described, you know he never wanted to hurt you this way. He cares, or he wouldn't be concerned about why you are upset. So, give him the chance to make it up to you. He might mess it up, you know him better than I do, but you will feel better about not being able to forgive him if he messes up again or doesn't feel the need to apologize/make amends.

If you don't feel comfortable taking it to him directly, start with your mom or request a session with a family therapist.

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I’m more upset at him saying it in the first place. Even if he felt that way why couldn’t he just keep that thought to himself? If I tell my mom she’s gonna confront him. I know it.

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Your dad is in the wrong, but you need to talk to him. You could always send him a link to this post and then he will understand the full picture of what happened and how you feel about it. You could start with your mom to see how she would react as well in case you don’t want to start with your dad. Right now you are in a holding pattern, you can’t go back, but you can’t go forward. If you want to heal you need to take the steps to heal, and that involves talking to your parents. If they love you they will be hurt by what he did and will make the steps with you to figured how they can make you feel better. He never should have said that, and tbh if he is a good dad he will be horrified you heard that and he hurt you. I am hopping for your reconciliation but just know that it’s probably going to take time. There is no magic wand that will make this pain go away. I hope your dad is willing to put in the time and effort you will need to heal.

AITAH doesn't have a consensus bot, but almost universally OOP was NTA, but most said his dad was the AH.

June 24, 2024

So I guess my post was put up on TikTok and my inbox was flooded with a bunch of new comments and dm’s. There’s too many to read but thank you everyone for telling me that I’m not wrong for not wanting to forgive my dad cause it still hurts knowing he said that regardless of why he said it. I got a lot of questions but I’ll answer two important ones.

My dad did ask to be left alone to work on his car but it’s not because he didn’t want to spend Father’s Day with us. We had a special breakfast for him and we gave him his gifts in the morning. The incident happened in the late afternoon. My mom usually wants to be left alone to work on her art projects or read one of her books on Mother’s Day too. It’s not that they don’t want to spend the day with us. They just like to be able to focus on their hobbies without having to worry about household or family duties for a few hours. It’s normal in my family for my mom and dad to give each other breaks or a day off sometimes.

Another thing is my dad didn’t invite Mason to work on the car with him. He did tell Mason a while back that if the garage door is open then Mason is free to walk in and chat. That’s what Mason usually does. My dad doesn’t talk to him outside of when Mason comes over by himself or with his aunt and uncle. I don’t think my dad even has Mason’s number. They’re not really close. They just both like cars.

I know most people told me to tell my mom or my dad or both about what I heard. I was kind of hoping the tension would go away and just be forgotten which I know is dumb and not realistic but I really didn’t wanna have to have that awkward conversation so I just kept quiet.

Things got really bad today. My sister and I were still mostly ignoring our dad. My mom would keep asking us a bunch of questions and guessing reasons why we were mad. I thought she gave up but earlier today she said we were gonna have a family game night tonight which we never really do. I really didn’t feel like doing that but I was gonna sit there and just deal with it. But my sister told my mom we won’t be joining if Dad is there. My mom asked why but my sister just said he knows what he did.

So my mom went to talk to our dad and like an hour later she made us all sit down in the living room to talk. My dad was mad now. He told us that we need to say whatever is on our minds because now our mom is asking if we caught him cheating on her or something. She was running out of theories for why we were mad. Tbf she guessed it right on the second day asking if he had said something to make me mad or upset but I lied and said no at the time.

She said she knows it has something to do with me because I was mad at him first. So I finally told her what I overheard my dad say. My mom was shocked and my dad immediately denied it which really sucked. Cause if he thought it and said it out loud he could at least also have the balls to admit it but he didn’t. He kept saying he didn’t say that but I told him I know what I heard. He tried to lie and say that what he said was that Mason’s dad would be proud of him (that’s true) and that if Mason was his son he’d be proud of the kind of person he was. That’s a lie. He didn’t say that. My sister got mad and told him to stop gaslighting me. Then they argued for a couple mins until my mom stopped them.

My mom asked me if I was sure of what I heard and I said yes. I told her exactly what he said to Mason “Your dad would be proud of you. I know I would be. You’re exactly the kind of son I wanted to have.” I know that because I keep hearing my dad’s voice saying it over and over in my head. I’ve been hearing it whenever I look at him since that day. And my mom turned to my dad and started yelling at him for saying that. So my dad finally admitted it but said that I misunderstood him. He says he was just trying to make Mason feel better cause Mason was sad and kept talking about his dad that died because it was Father’s Day. My dad wasn’t trying to put me down or say I was a disappointment to him. He said he was sorry and tried to hug me but I was honestly mad that he denied it at first so I didn’t let him.

My mom didn’t accept his reasoning either. She said that Mason, his aunt and uncle aren’t invited anymore and that we’re just gonna be neighbors from now on and that’s it. I feel bad cause they didn’t do anything wrong. But my mom kept going and telling my dad that he needs to stop spending so much time on his stupid car and start paying more attention to his family. He really doesn’t spend a lot of time on it. Maybe like 2 days out of the month for 3-4 hours. I think she was just really mad at him which is what I was worried about. So my dad shouted that he’ll just get rid of the car then since everyone suddenly has a problem with his hobby. He left to my uncles house (his brother) after that and I don’t think he’s coming back tonight.

I feel really bad. I should have just let it go. I really want to but I can’t. If he hadn’t tried to lie and just said sorry maybe I would’ve accepted his apology and this would be done. I’m not even really mad anymore. I just feel like a failure. I wish I could’ve just been more into cars. Then this whole thing would’ve never happened. Sorry it’s not a happy update but a lot of people were asking for one. I hope he comes back home soon.

Relevant Comments:

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OP’ if you’re reading this, I’m sorry your dad is a complete piece of shit.  And tell your mom this really isn’t about the car or the amount of time your dad spends on the car, it’s about what your dad really thinks of you.

His reaction was to deny, lie, manipulate, minimize (I’m guessing that “apology” was the complete opposite of truly sorry or remorseful), then pout and run away instead of dealing with what he did to you - not just on fathers day but during/after this family meeting.

I’m sorry you have to go through this. Your asshole dad doesn’t deserve forgiveness

” He says he was just trying to make Mason feel better cause Mason was sad and kept talking about his dad that died because it was Father’s Day. My dad wasn’t trying to put me down or say I was a disappointment to him.”

Bullshit. You know what your dad would have said if was trying to make Mason feel better?  ’I’m proud of you, Mason. And your dad is probably watching you right now and saying the exact same thing, only you can’t hear him’

You know what your dad would have said if you were a disappointment to him?  ’You’re exactly the kind of son I wanted to have’

You want proof that you’re not a failure?

• your sister was pissed off at what he said about you

• your mom was pissed off at what he said about you

• everyone on reddit is pissed off at what he said about you

That’s 3 strikes. 3 strikes has worked in baseball for well over a hundred years. You are NOT a failure. YOUR FATHER IS A FAILURE.  

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Hey: I know this might not feel true yet, but you did some brave, important things in that conversation. You told the truth, and you stood up for yourself. Your dad lied and deflected and stormed off for reasons that have nothing to do with you and everything to do with his emotional maturity. That’s a tough thing to learn, because as kids it feels safer to believe we’re the problem, because then we can fix it. But this isn’t on you. Try to be kind to yourself, and maybe spend some time your mom or sister or friends who make you feel good.

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Thank you for saying this. I really needed to hear some of that.

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As an adult who had 2 very emotionally immature parents, I understand your pain. It’s hard to not blame ourselves when we confront our parents about things they have said or did to hurt us. They often lie, gaslight, or fake apologize their way out of it and you’re still left feeling the shame for even bringing it up.

I just want you to know I’m proud of you. It’s not easy to do what you did; I wasnt able to do this at 16. I’m 30 and can barely do it sometimes but I’m getting better. Keep enjoying the hobbies you love! And never stop standing up for yourself, no matter who they are

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You are not wrong for your feelings. And you are not to blame for your sister, your mother or your father’s reactions to how you feel. They make those choices. And as a mom, I would bet money that your mom is both pissed about what he said but even more pissed that he tried to lie and cover it up. But I also believe this, your dad tried to lie and say it didn’t happen because he was ashamed of what he said and ashamed of the hurt he caused to you because he does love you. Shame and men are just two things that rarely go well together. Many men are taught to hide their feelings (good for you to be starting to break that bullsh*t cycle) and so when they feel any emotion, they react with anger. But that anger reaction is NOT your fault. Your dad needs to feel his shame right now and I don’t believe he would be feeling that if he didn’t love you very much.

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So, when presented with the reason you’re upset, your father:

-Denies it flat out, calling you a liar, then

-Gaslights you, saying you misunderstood him, then

-Attempts to justify his words, then

-Throws a diversionary hissy fit, claiming you all hate his beloved hobby when, no…you hate his insulting statement, then

-Storms out in cowardly rage to run from his actions and not having to hear any more from all of you meanies.

OP, you’re so NTA. Your father needs to learn that when one makes a mistake, one needs to admit it, own up to it, apologize and make every effort to ensure it’s never repeated.

Editor's Note: Since OOP's dad has left and not returned, this issue doesn't feel resolved, so I am marking it ongoing. Hopefully, OOP updates us with a more positive update in the future.

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

I am not The OOP, OOP is

AITA for calling MIL by her last name instead of Grandma?

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: manipulation

  Sept 3, 2020

My relationship to my MIL, "Mrs Smith," is crap. She's cold to me because I kept my last name, Miller. She says "I'll treat her like family when she wants to be part of it." She calls me "Jake's friend." My husband Jake loves me all the same. He doesn't bother standing up to her because it's a way for her to start a fight. We rarely talk to her. She makes no effort. Neither do we.

Jake and I had discussed whose last name our kid would have prior to the birth. He initiated the conversation. I'd left the decision up to him.

After the birth, the families visited at the hospital. Jake asked what our Sons last name was gonna be. I told him it was still his choice. He smiled and said "little Baby Miller, I like it." He filled out the paper work. MIL looked livid. She started asking questions but my dad started crying. Both of my brothers have died. Dad has never mentioned it but I know passing the last name down makes him happy. Neither Jake or I anticipated this nor did it for this reason but it was sweet all the same.

After she left MIL let people know what I had done. And how now she wouldn't feel like a grandmother. A month later a SIL announced her pregnancy. MIL said "fianlly! I'll feel like a grandmother!" Again, my husband didn't say anything, neither did I.

Our son started talking. During a video call, where my MIL did nothing but gush about SILs daughter, who is adorable, Jake was trying to get the baby to talk. Son lost interest, I took Son and Jake let MIL ramble some more before ending the call. MIL said she wanted to say bye to Son. Jake turned the phone. MIL said "say bye to grandma! Make Son say it! I'm grandma now!" I snapped inside so I said "say 'bye Mrs Smith.'" My MIL face dropped, Jake turned the camera away and said bye quickly. He laughed, said I was awesome, but we better put our phones on silent.

The only call/text I responded to was the other SIL who said I didn't need to go out of my way to be nasty. That MIL went around saying how excited she was about Son (lie). That her initial comments were understandable because I talked Jake out of tradition (I DID NOT) and that I'd hurt MIL. MIL needed time to adjust. I said "thank you for your input."

MIL texted eventually saying I'd really upset her. I said "here I was, trying to respect the importance you feel to last names. You've said multiple times I'm not family because of my last name. You made it more than clear that's the reason my child doesn't make you feel like a grandma. Now you'll be known as Mrs Smith."  She said sorry, she didn't mean it that way, but that my dad's reaction was an example of how important last names are. I now had to forgive her because family.

It made me angrier that she brought my dad into this and I can't tell if I'm being TA or not.

Edit. Thank you again to everyone who gave awards! It was very kind of you and I do appreciate it.

Jake is home and I had him read the post. Some of you really cracked him up. Some made good points which we have discussed.

Apparently he also got a text from his sister and asked how much money she got from MIL for telling me off. He also made sure to tell SIL who had the baby that we hold nothing against her, should MIL try to spin it that way. She knows MIL better thankfully.

Jake would also like to tell those who are telling me I should take his name that he disagrees and he's not about the sexism you're spewing. Though he does now want to send MIL a Christmas card from "The Millers".

Edit 2. You guys are being great. I woke up to many more responses than I anticipated. Thank you.

Just to clarify, my son will not be calling MIL Mrs Smith. They barely have a relationship as he's still a baby and MIL makes no effort.

After some discussion, Jake is gonna take time to figure out what he wants from MIL and if he thinks that's possible.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

[deleted]

Can I just say your marriage sounds great? The way you wanted the baby's lastname to be his choice and he chose yours? There's so much love and respect here. Also I like how he stands by your side in his mother's nonsense. You both are awesome. NTA.

OOP

I just assumed our son would have his. He brought it up. He said it was fair since I was doing all the work. He said if he pushed a human out of him he'd want to put his name on it. Which makes me laugh. I still let it be his choice because regardless of his name, I'm gonna love this kid. If we have a second, I may insist they get his last name. Seems fair.

I am a very lucky woman, but it should be noted he wears his gross shoes through the house, so not perfect. But he says I sleep like an MMA fighter so I suppose we're even

OOP responds to a comment that answers many points

""I don't see a reason why you were angry when she told you about you father's reaction. Seems a pretty valid point, the importance that the last name has for your father and her. This observation doesn't excuse her actions but still a good point... I mean, for what you have said seems like your dad would have done any nasty comments but him crying shows how important it is for some people.""

MIL divorced the man who's last name she took. It wasn't even her original name. And she has another son who is going to have kids. My husband wasn't her only option. And my father lost two sons. My dads reaction comes from a very different emotional place. And frankly, he knew he wasn't entitled to it. He simply appreciates it. Even FIL didn't care. And again, this decision was made by my husband, with my full support. Why isn't she mad at him?

""I'm not sure if this how you should say it "taste of her own medicine". It was a good move to show her how unrespectful she was doing the same and calling her by her last name was a good move indeed... But now that she is taking accountability (I think that's the word), it would be a jerk move keep calling her in that way. Maybe you can use this to out boundaries to her actions so it would be smart to get an agreement instead of keeping the lastname war.""

I'm not gonna keep calling her that. I'm currently discussing with my husband what we should do.

VERDICT: NOT THE ASSHOLE

  Oct 23, 2020

Jake and I appreciated all the support. Though Jake wants the DMers to know that he's okay with me taking his balls because he loses everything anyway. This brought him a good chuckle before the serious talk. We both also want to be very clear that taking his name was never on the table, nor does he care. I also do want to say I know how great Jake is. Though since the post he's been "demanding" I thank "the worlds best husband" anytime he does something for me. His humor is my favorite part of him.

Because it's his mom, I let him decide how to handle it. We both did agree that our son would obviously know MIL as his grandma, but he wouldn't have a relationship with her unless she addressed the blatant favoritism.

That conversation did not go well. She denied having favorites, lied about pretty much everything, then told me the compromise she was willing to make was that if she had to accept me for who I am (being that I kept that name) I'd have to accept her for who she is. I didn't respond before Jake ripped into her about how she didn't get to make demands. That she was critical of me, assumed things that he already told her weren't true. That this conversation was happening because we didn't accept who she was. He said if he ever heard her make another comment about the Miller last name, he'd take it. She started crying about losing her family and he hung up.

One SIL, who is MILs favorite child, sent me a nasty message including the line "I wonder if your dead brother would happy you used him to break MILs heart." I sent the screenshot to MIL and said "call off your dog or I'll take her to the pound." I have sent a screenshot of that to anyone who has tried to question me. If they tried to defend MIL or SIL, I blocked them. Word got around quickly about this and now SIL is all but cut out of FILs side of the family. Even FIL has come down on her hard. SIL is desperately trying to apologize and fix this. She even allowed Jake to read everything MIL sent to her about my last name. I tried to read some of it but stopped. I don't want to be angry. I'm taking time to decide how to handle this.

I am happy to be done with MIL. She never really bothered me. It does takes a lot to get to me. But I don't want her behavior and attitudes being normalized with my son. I wasn't prepared for motherhood to have such a strong effect.

Jake did admit he gave Son my last name for my dad. Years ago my dad asked if Jake was gonna propose to me. Jake said if my dad wanted to know he would give him a heads up but he wouldn't ask for his blessing or permission. In many more words, dad said he never had any expectations of that. He didn't worry about gender roles though he was glad he would gain a son again. Jake didn't feel obligated. He just wanted to do that for my dad.

Sincerely, thank you all.

Edit. Hey everyone, I did not expect to wake up to the aunt of messages I did. I appreciate them all. Jake takes both the compliments and the insults. As do I.

I also want to clear up some questions.

Yes, this is real but I'm not going to prove that.

MIL took FILs name. They are divorced. They have two daughters and two sons. BIL intends to have children and will pass on the Smith name. SIL has a daughter who has SILs husband's name. SIL also took his name. The youngest SIL is the one who sent the text.

Im not going to apologize for how I spoke to MIL after she encouraged her daughter to use my brother like that. There is text proof that MIL did this. SIL showed Jake. I have no intentions on seeking therapy or a relationship with either of them and that's the most that can be asked of me in this upset of a state.

If/when we have a second child, I always intended for them to get Jake's last name. Jake knows and is cool with it.

Jake is willing to be called by my last name but I doubt he'll actually change it. Niether of us our willing to do paperwork out of spite either.

Yes, I still cry remembering my dad cry about this. I always assumed Jake did this for this reason. He really is a great man.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

sbargos

You've got yourself a great husband. Not a lot of people could stand their ground like he did. Good luck to both of you and your little son

OOP

He's always been able to stand up for himself. I won't say it didn't get to him, especially what his sister did, but he just runs it out. He may also make himself a world's best husband t shirt if he sees more compliments. But he does deserve it.

And thank you.

~

rafster929

Would he consider changing his name to Miller or would that just pour more gasoline on the fire?

OOP

Yes he would but he tries not to let anger make his decisions. I also don't think he would because of the paper work required and he does everything he can to avoid it. Including bribe me to do it.

~

fanpal95

That line "call your dog off or ill take her to the pound" so bloody good.

OOP

I didn't mean it violently either. Just keep you're yapping dog in your yard or I'll make it someone else's problem. SIL is still yapping, just more whiney now. I don't think she realized her family would draw a line in the sand. They majority aren't necessarily taking our side, but it's clear they're staying out of it because defending her isn't really an option.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in and his user account

Concluded as per OOP

Content warning - murder, PTSD, abusive behaviour, domestic violence

2 updates - Long

- 14th October 2021

- 15th October 2021

- 16th June 2024

AITA for yelling at and ignoring my girlfriend over a prank?

Not enough info I’ve (22M) been with Nicole (25F) for a couple years now and she’s always liked survival stuff and weaponry and all that. I absolutely don’t. Really, really bad experiences with knives when I was younger, and Nicole knows about them. We both love Halloween and usually throw a party and dress up and goof around, cook up pumpkin seeds and watch movies.

Anyway the point is Nicole loves doing tricks with her knives (like five finger fillet, flicking it open and closed, twirling it etc) and she’ll do it when we’re watching a show or movie together - forgetting that I’ve asked her please not to. Or she’ll buy a new one and show it off, asking if I wanted to give it first bite(??) and pout when I say no. Two days ago she was playing with it again and I asked her why she keeps forgetting and she said “wow okay don’t insult my intelligence again” and then that it was just a knife and therefore not a big deal and therefore not that important to remember. After that, she put away the knife and we continued to have an okay night, but I was on edge and jumpy whenever she touched me.

Yesterday she called me into the kitchen. Only she was playing five finger filet... and I startled her and she “messed up”. Badly. I lost my cool. Screamed my head off, tried shouting what I knew about first aid at her while I raced to grab my phone, complete panic, dialing 911, only for her start laughing and show me that it was a “prank” involving red food dye and a carrot.

She had a nice laugh about how I would have known it was a joke if I wasn’t so squeamish about knives, that it’s proof I need to get more comfortable, that anyone with passing knowledge knows that it doesn’t look like that when something like that happens. She kept explaining how she did it, how she practiced, how she could show me, but I didn’t even answer her, it was like my head was underwater and my heart was beating out of my chest. Just moved on autopilot and grabbed my keys and drove a few blocks away before pulling over to breath. Nicole tried to call me and the first thing I said was “it wasn’t funny at all”, and she asked “are you crying?” Then I hung up on her.

She kept texting me, saying she was sorry, that she didn’t think I’d react so badly to a joke, that it was just meant to be good fun in the Halloween spirit. I ignored her. I texted her after that I was home but ignored everything else. This morning she sent the picture of the props to the group chat with a few of our mutual friends, and they chimed in saying “It doesn’t even look real”. I’ve muted the chat since and I’m wondering if I have a leg to stand on before I go back and apologize.

Edit 10/15 5:30pm Further update here

It’s... overwhelming how much of a response this got, and I tried to read all of your comments. Some of them made me laugh, some warmed my heart, others had very hard truths that I still needed to hear, no matter how raw it left me.

There are a lot of repeating questions and assumptions.

First: we don’t live together. At this point I don’t think we ever will.

Second: I stayed primarily because the good seemed to outweigh the bad. You remember the negatives more than the positive, so obviously I just had to remember her positive qualities instead of being swayed by my focus on the bad times. Plus it was always almost perfect after we had a fight, and I just assumed the boom and bust cycle was normal.

I didn’t know Nicole liked knives at first. A mutual friend (“Crystal”, who was in the group chat, and I met Crystal during a community college course) introduced us as I was new to the area and at first Nicole and I hit it off as we had a lot of shared interests - music, art, outdoors activity, going antiquing, wine, food and cooking... just a lot of things. We started dating and eventually went on a camping and hiking trip, where she used a knife to split some kindling and she was pointing it toward herself. I remember telling her to watch out and she had me to relax because she did it all the time, she asked me if I wanted to do it myself and I admitted I didn’t like knives. Later in the trip we drank by the fire and talked and that’s when I told her about my trauma. She promised to protect me and I remember that exactly because I had the mental image of her fending off a mugger and I joked that she was “my hero”. (My trauma has been brought up after that point, and neither of us were drunk at the time)

My knife issues typically don’t impact my daily life except to make me more apt to be very slow in the kitchen when chopping things.

It doesn’t seem like abuse, especially when we’re good. When it’s bad, it’s really rough. I don’t have really any other baseline as I was a late bloomer dating wise. My dad always said that you should both give 110% in a relationship but everyone argues. I thought working through the rough patches was normal. That’s also why I was preparing to apologize: because it takes two in an argument so I am responsible as well and need to apologize for my part. In this case, ruining the night with my reaction.

I did go through therapy to help cope with the initial incident surrounding my aversion to knives. I was a lot worse when it happened - to the extent where I couldn’t have anyone point the knife in the direction of another living being, or certain songs on the radio that were playing at the time, or certain smells. I’ve made progress, but clearly not enough to stay with her and deal with her fidgeting with the knives. (I will admit to backsliding a bit in that I seem a lot more anxious when I stay the night and can’t stay asleep, or having more nightmares, which is why I believed her when she said I was overreacting)

Also concerning the fidgeting, it’s not a constant thing. Sometimes she’d go weeks without pulling the knife out. Sometimes she’d complain that I only focus on the fact she had used the knife, versus how long she had abstained, which seems reasonable to point out.

Comments

0biterdicta

INFO: Why are you dating someone who repeatedly exposes you to something you're traumatized by and doesn't care how hurt you are by it?

LuvtheBees

It really sounds like OP and girlfriend are just not compatible. NTA

1890rafaella

She sounds like a nightmare and enjoys tormenting OP. Why is he still with her? That prank should be a deal breaker. It wasn’t a prank - it was a cruel act.

PouncingFox

She sounds awful. OP should ask her to explain the joke, and precisely why it was funny. Certainly doesn't deserve a relationship where he isn't respected and constantly demeaned. I feel awful for him

Vos-loves-Ventress15

"I had a horrible, disturbing prank played on me by the person I love. AITA?"

NTA OP. God, that wasn't a prank, that sounds terrifying.

Update - 1 day later

A lot of the conversation is paraphrased with quotes that stuck in my mind. I also kept adding to this as things developed and I’m running on zero sleep, so I’m sorry if it’s not very clear.

I did reach out to Nicole again yesterday to talk and I went with the intention of standing my ground and explaining things so she could understand my side. She greeted me with “thanks for gracing me with your presence” and asked if I was here to act my age and talk like an adult. She slammed the door behind me and pointed to the couch so we could discuss things. Nicole opened with my reaction was unreasonable and completely out of line considering the situation. I said that things need to change because that prank wasn’t okay at all and she knows I have issues with knife violence and I asked “what was funny about the prank?” She interrupted and said that ultimatums aren’t part of any relationship so I said “I don’t think this is working out for us, I don’t think we’re happy together.”

Nicole froze at first and I started to explain that the knife thing and our respective stances being so different is not fair to either of us. But she repeatedly asked “so you’re going to break up nearly three years just because of this?” I tried to tell her it was more than just this, it was everything else, it was that she keeps forgetting and triggering me, that she loves playing with them but it upsets me, but she started talking over me and yelling that apparently I think she’s an idiot and that I’m the best actor in the world because she never knew I felt so horrible, and that maybe I should call the cops on her for abuse. She grabbed her cellphone and offered it to me again and again, saying “go on, call” but when I said we just need to talk, she interrupted with “no you won’t because you know, I know, we both know, no cop is going to arrest me for a joke”. Also I’m not very tall- 5’9 and she’s only 5’6 but she was standing right in front of me while I was seated, so I couldn’t get up without moving her.

After throwing her phone on the couch next to me, she stormed into the kitchen shouting that she should get rid of all her knives because I’m so terrified. She threw a few into the sink and then the whole block of knives into the trash, the whole time asking “what about this one? Too sharp? Too scary?”

When I flinched at the noises she said “oh do you feel threatened? How do you think I feel when I have to defend myself against your feelings?!” Nicole told me to quit crying, that I can’t just use tears to manipulate her, and mocked me when I said “please stop”. She said she has to walk on eggshells because she has to deal with a boyfriend that can’t handle a single joke without running off into the night. “It’s not hard to not overreact - literally just think before you go crazy, it’s that simple” and that it’s ridiculous that a grown man can’t handle a knife or a gun and I refuse to let go of my victimhood because “anyone normal would have gotten over it by now, it’s been nearly 9 years!”

She called me stubborn and childish for picking this hill to die on, that I’m not innocent, it’s not fair that I’m allowed to ignore her for hours but she can’t have a little fun, and is my ego really that big? It’s sickening that I don’t trust her or think she’s smart or skilled enough to handle a knife properly and it’s sexist, infantilizing and insulting.

At some point I said I think I need to go home and it was like a switch, and she said “Please stop crying, I hate when you cry”, joked (I think, because she laughed?) “I guess hibachi dates are off the table, huh?” and “I should probably take the knives out of the trash now, shouldn’t I?”

She apologized and said since it means so much to me she’ll put in more effort. She admitted that I’m such a sensitive guy that if she stopped doing everything that made me uncomfortable she wouldn’t be able to do anything. She pointed out that I cried watching My Girl the other day as proof that I’m overly emotional and it made sense that she thought I was just being my normal self, but she was sorry for not realizing sooner it was really upsetting me. She promised she would do her best not to bring the knives out when I’m around.

Nicole hugged me and told me to “let go, we can get through this, there’s nothing we can’t get over”, and asked for a chance to start over, fresh start tomorrow, no more jokes. It’s stupid but I just said yes. I wanted to go home, get out of her house and leave while she was still acting nice, and I didn’t hold my ground. I feel like an idiot and a coward. I got home and puked and couldn’t get to sleep again.

Today Nicole came and dropped off lunch and coffee for me, gave me a kiss and said she loved me, and all the old ladies in the office were gushing about how cute we are together. I’m going to reach out to one of the guys I’m closer to and the friend who set us up to find out when Nicole got so into knives. (Because I remember about 7-8 months in it was shortly after the camping trip and it was Nicole’s birthday that she asked for a specific knife as her present, so at least then, but I can’t really remember there being anything major before then). I’m going to break up officially with her tomorrow with one of the guys if possible, so I can get my stuff from her place.

Comments

robindastore

op that is a completely unstable reaction, also her toxic masculinity is over the top and you do not deserve to be treated that way. im so sorry she scared you like that and that she thought it was okay and you just "over reacted". You did not overreact, your feelings and trauma associated with them are completely valid, and she sounds like a hateful, unkind person. please do not go back to her unless someone else is there with you, and stay safe. sending you hugs, you got this tomorrow you are a strong person

Update - 3 years later

There's previous information in my profile concerning a post I made on AITA a few years ago. I came to Reddit about my girlfriend and her knife prank. It's been a long while since, and I was uncertain if I could update here or there or wherever.

Roll this back over a decade ago for more background. When I was a preteen we experienced a home invasion that resulted in my mother and dog dying and left me with a lifelong phobia of knives and anxiety surrounding blood and break-ins. Directly following the break-in, I was unable to handle a knife being pointed at another living creature. My brain caught on to stupid things and connected them to the events and made them into triggers. Mom's perfume. The sound of glass shattering or a door banging open. A song that was playing at the time. Even now I still hate the song but at least it doesn't trigger a flashback anymore. Blood on beige carpet featured prominently in my nightmares.

I worked extensively with a therapist to process what happened and what I'd seen. Recovery took years of therapy, weeks of inpatient care, medication to help with the nightmares, PTSD, depression and anxiety. We sold the house as soon as we could. I moved out of state as soon as I could. I kept up with therapy and continued to take my medication. My aversion to knives became something minor in how it impacted my life. I was careful in the kitchen and I certainly didn't search out knife throwing competitions, but it was under control in my normal daily life.

It helped that everything seemed to be coming together. I made new friends, I was balancing work and school, I'd just met the girl who'd become my first long term adult girlfriend. I know now it was just the honeymoon phase but it felt like we were progressing well even once infatuation wore off. We stood together through highs and lows and the mediocre middle ground where there's nothing exciting, just the mundane. I thought that was the marker of a steady relationship, to be able to stick together even after the excitement of a new relationship has faded.

We went on a few trips together, driving across state lines to meet her family or flying back to see my dad. On one of our trips we went camping and my fear of knives got brought up. That lead to the break-in getting brought up. She seemed to care at the time, even promising to protect me if something ever happened and offering to help install a camera in my apartment.

After the camping trip, I don't know if it was always there and I noticed it more after or what, but she started to be more obviously into knives. Practicing tricks in front of me, showing videos to me, starting a collection. She even asked for a knife for her birthday that year, showing me exactly which one she wanted. Before, she was into camping, into guns (which ironically I have zero issue with) and how to forage, make shelter, purify water, basic survival stuff, and artillery and tanks. She did multiple courses about military history in college and busted out the textbooks sometimes if she remembered something she thought I would find interesting. But suddenly it seemed like her focus was on carving and skinning animals, on knife wounds and tricks and collecting and displaying knives.

She started doing the tricks more often, in front of me, even when sitting next to me on the couch or at the dinner table. She would gesture with the knife "without thinking" and even point it at me- again, one of my major triggers being knives pointed at people or animals. She started sending me videos of news clips of other break ins, or news reports of robberies ending in murder, between a bunch of other funny videos or pictures, so checking snapchat became a game of Russian roulette. If I didn't check the links sent through text, she'd keep sending them and ask what I thought. She'd forget she had the knife in hand when she came up to me, sometimes from behind. My nightmares came back. My anxiety got worse. No matter how often I reminded her to please stop playing with the knife in front of me, or at least not next to me, she would always forget after a little bit. Some part of me refuses to believe there's no way she risked bodily harm just to unnerve me.

It came to a head when she pulled a prank where she pretended to cut off a finger. We had a huge fight, our biggest one yet. I wish I'd acted differently and hadn't stormed out but I did. There is a lot about my time with Nicole I would do differently in hindsight.

I was so sure I'd just break up with her for good. I don't know why I didn't stay broken up with her. When I did at first, I did it alone because my friend Jack rolled his eyes and called me a p-ssy for wanting back up. So I did it in a coffee shop instead, hoping the public eye could be my backup. Nicole stared at me with this affronted expression and it was like I couldn't find the words anymore. Her eyes were huge and wide and hateful. Like I've never seen anyone glare at me like that. She gripped onto the cup like she was going to throw it at me, I had it in my head to bolt the second she moved because I could see it so clearly. But then she started crying, loudly, and kept asking why I would do this to her and that she hoped I found happiness with someone better since she clearly wasn't enough for me despite doing everything to be a good girlfriend. I felt like shit and people were staring so I wished her well and asked if she wanted me to call a friend but she told me to leave her the fuck alone so I did. I hate how I handled the break up but it felt in the moment like autopilot.

In short order I lost the support of our mutual friends who had become my only friends during my relationship with Nicole, which I understand as they knew her for much longer. Jack actually confronted me and called me a piece of shit for embarrassing her like that in public, calling me trash for leaving her sobbing alone and not even offering her a ride home; he wouldn't listen to my explanations and said I could excuse myself but everyone now knew what kind of guy I really am. People at work mentioned how sad it was that we broke up. I didn't feel like it was the place to explain my reasoning and after the confrontation with Jack I didn't feel like I had a right to. I felt like crap, like a shit person, and I felt numb. I tried to move on, to find a new normal. After about a month of us being broken up, she called me and begged for me to come over to help her, she was scared she'd hurt herself.

I went to her immediately. I held her all night, helped her wash her hair after days of not being able to bring herself to. She admitted she'd done a horrible thing and that she couldn't stand how she'd treated me, that she wished she could go back and change so we could still be together. Didn't know how to address that, so I just stayed with her the whole night, and the next day at work she came by to drop off a homemade lunch and to thank me for being there for her.

I stupidly let myself get sucked back in. I get that it's my fault. Coffee in the morning became dinner and drinks out became movie nights and going to shows and flea markets together because we still had similar interests. One time she even noticed a booth with knives and directed us away, and while yes it wasn't necessary as I could see a knife display and not be freaked out, it was a nice gesture because before she would have gone there and either bought one herself or asked me to buy it for her, one of multiple changes that made me think maybe she was truly making an effort. That at the least maybe we could be friends again. I started to get invited back into the group somewhat.

Two months later she kissed me. We were both drunk and it didn't go any further. I didn't talk to her about it because I thought she didn't remember, but then she approached me to ask if there was any salvaging "Us", if she'd proven that she was different now and things would be better.

I thought maybe. I stayed, because she really had been so sweet, it was like starting over, and we got back together. I was permitted back into the friend group in full (though Crystal had stopped talking to everyone and Jack still refused to talk to me) and while it was awkward at first, soon enough we were acting like we'd never stopped being friends for even a minute. It felt so good to go back to normal, it was like a weight off my chest and like I could breathe again.

It was nice for a while. She was so careful about the knives thing and it really did feel so normal and steady. Sure we had small fights but we always made up shortly after and she'd be overwhelmingly loving after the fact. It felt like it was before, so it felt normal.

I can't pinpoint when it started to creep back but maybe when she started watching documentaries on her phone with the sound up high while sitting next to me, or when she'd poke or grab me while I was cutting up dinner then laugh at my startle response. Or she'd scoff if I teared up watching or reading something then tell me later that it was out of fondness not exasperation and I really needed to stop reading so much into it. Or she'd yell at me for forgetting something that she never even told me about and then the next day she'd get frustrated that I didn't "insist properly" that she was mistaken. Like it was all small things that on their own weren't even that big of a deal and I didn't feel like I could just speak up about it or else I was nitpicking her.

In hindsight I was making excuses and clinging to when she was nice to me, trying to do anything to make sure we just stayed happy and without bumps. Part of it was that I knew now that I'd be alone, that no one would understand why I'd throw away a good relationship, that being with her was the best thing that could ever happen to me.

We moved in together four months after our getting back together. She was hinting around that it was the only way to prove to her that I'd forgiven her and that way we could move on and be happy. She insisted I move into her place because it was easier to move an apartment into a house than the other way around. It constantly felt like she was dangling that night where she was suicidal over me, like one wrong move from me and maybe the next time she wouldn't call for help. When we had fights, she paced through the house flicking a knife, looping from the bedroom to the living room to the office, or said every single argument was really due to the fact I was holding a grudge over the prank and that we wouldn't be arguing if I just "grew up" and stopped taking out my trauma on her. She'd tell me not to piss her off because it would be too easy for her to "make a mistake" and no one would think twice about what happened. A few times she'd gone on a rampage and overturned tables and threw glasses into the sink and dishwasher and said we were done for good— only for the next day to blow up my phone begging me to talk this out or have her friends encourage me to swallow my pride and go back to her because she's miserable without me and she's trying so hard, or she'd just wake me with a kiss after making me sleep on the couch as if the night before never happened. If I asked about the night before, the fight would start all over yet this time it'd be my fault because she was trying to move on but I was holding a grudge.

The following nearly ten months were the most terrifying, anxiety riddled period of my life, and I only had myself to blame. Coming home from work I puked my guts out more than a few times on the way just because I didn't want to go back to her. I felt trapped. She threw away the blanket my mother had knitted me for my crib because it was "dirty". It wasn't dirty, it was a knit blanket that had been repaired repeatedly and hand washed frequently; so she'd "accidentally" put it through the wash and destroyed it, then bought a completely different throw blanket as a replacement and got mad when I didn't consider the matter resolved. She pulled another prank, this time with a fake positive pregnancy test, and berated me for not being overjoyed because I immediately started panicking about the cost, bringing up a child in our dysfunction, and handling the stress, rather than being excited. I feel like she wanted me to be happy so that she could crush my joy, and so was angry that I didn't play to her expectation. That night she threatened me with the knife, pointing it at me and saying she should just snip me right then since I didn't want to have kids with her, and then held me as I sobbed because I went into a panic. I didn't want her touching me, but I didn't know what else to do but let her and to apologize to her. Another time she put the knife to her own throat during a fight and said I clearly want her to kill herself and didn't stop until I screamed at her begging her to stop. Sometimes when driving she'd start speeding and swerving, or closing her eyes while on the highway, and saying my fear meant I didn't trust her.

Nicole just kept getting worse by the day. I remember waking up one morning with a moment of clarity. I knew she'd eventually kill me, I was sleeping next to my murderer. It still wasn't enough to push me away. Escaping her orbit seemed like too much, more than I could handle. Everything I had in me was focused on just surviving day to day. I never knew if she'd break up with me on a whim or pick a fight or be constantly pushing me closer to a panic attack all night or if she'd flip and be so sweet and caring. I felt like every day was Russian roulette hour to hour, every word I said or action I did or didn't do a chance to start a raging fight.

She'd tossed out my anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication one night and then during the resulting argument she made a big show of forgiving me for raising my voice (I shouldn't have done that, I have no excuse) and then helping me call in an emergency refill. For weeks after, because I said I wanted to break up during the argument, she would ask if I was going to "try to run away" every time that something went wrong. Takeout order wrong? I spilled a cup of water? Streaming service not working immediately? "Oh don't get your panties in a twist and run off" and "do I have to worry about you leaving me over this mistake, too?"

Eventually that tapered off but maybe once a month during a fight she would tearfully go to our friends and ask them to mediate then during the meetings say that I kept threatening to leave her again over "nothing" and how scared she was of losing me when she "didn't know what set me off". More than a few times she showed me texts from them where her friends were saying how she deserved better and didn't need to put up with me, but she'd tell me "I don't listen to them because I love you anyway".

She'd slap me and push me during arguments. I could never do anything right, because even doing what she wanted without argument or not looking her in the eye could be enough to send her off the rails. Sometimes as a joke just in general one of our friends would pull out a little pack of tissues and hand it over to me "in case I'd run out" or make a production of hiding the butter knife at dinner under the napkin. It was humiliating but if I spoke up, suddenly I was oversensitive, an embarrassment, no fun, and I had to learn how to deal with adult friendships and jokes, and they'd ask her how she could stand it. As a result I didn't spend much time with them either. Usually Nicole would just go out with them and I'd stay home, which was the most relaxing I've ever felt during that time, except for when she started randomly coming home without any notice or timeline (like saying she'd be home at 6 but then not coming back til midnight or early morning, or saying she'd be gone until 10 and coming early back at 2 or 3) or randomly calling the house phone to make sure I was home and getting angry if she even thought I sounded breathless, accusing me of having left.

She started hinting around that marriage would be the logical next step and I was insulting her by not having proposed yet. Then she bought an engagement ring with my credit card and started showing off to all her friends how perfect "my" choice was. I didn't want to marry her. I felt bad for not wanting to marry her. I wanted us to be happy, and maybe giving her the wedding she wanted would help. I didn't want to marry her.

In all those months I never went to sleep feeling safe. I lied awake in bed hyper aware of how close she was and trying to go over in my head if I had behaved well enough to keep her happy and what I could do to prevent another explosion. In hindsight it's sickening how long I let this go on. In the moment it was just about all I could think to do. I often woke up with nightmares which would in turn piss her off and set her off in a mood for the next day but if I suggested sleeping separately she would rage about how I was calling her a shitty girlfriend/fiancee/etc. I started to keep a notebook at work and just writing shit down. Things she'd done or said, incidents and what I'd done to set her off. It helped me feel more sane, and also more like a fucking moron because I could read back on times she actually hurt me and I still hadn't left.

Every time I thought about leaving I felt sick inside. I'd lose every social contact I had. I would have to find a new place to live. I'd have to bar her from my workplace but they can't do anything without a restraining order and that itself felt like a hurdle too. I dropped all my old friends in favor of her and felt like they'd refuse to even talk to me again. I was the idiot that let her back into my life and rekindled the relationship, despite overwhelming feedback. I was stupid enough to deserve every bit of what was happening, and too dumb to deserve to escape after wasting my previous chances. I hated myself and had frequent fantasies of just ending it all.

The worst part wasn't the anxiety and terror though. It was when she was sweet and caring. For example she always went all out for my birthday or anniversaries or Christmas, with thoughtful gifts, except for the year where she kicked me out for the evening after throwing some decorations at the wall because they stopped working (for which she blamed me because I put them up). She was sweet and gentle one day, or even for a week or two, only to slowly start ramping up the tension until she exploded yet again. She had an uncanny ability to blame me in ways that made me feel responsible for her emotions and for forcing her to react violently.

When we drove out to visit my dad for Easter things started to change. Dad was concerned about how quiet I'd become and that I hadn't come for Thanksgiving or Christmas or even called on NYE like I used to. That I looked tired, unhappy and thin. Nicole was on her best behavior the whole time and even left her knives in the car, even tried to get everyone to focus on the engagement ring, but Dad still saw something was wrong. For three weeks after he kept trying to contact me, but she wouldn't let me talk without her in the room and she checked my phone anytime she left me alone and checked the records online to see if I had deleted any calls. Eventually I managed to get a burner phone and hid it at work, which allowed me to talk to my dad freely.

He flew over with my uncle and they helped me gather my stuff from her house. When Nicole started sobbing and begging me to stay, my uncle kept her from the kitchen knives and had his phone ready to call 911 if she tried to hurt herself or us. When Nicole started to insist I was taking her stuff too even though I was only taking things either I brought with me or I bought for me, I just let it go. She got to keep a few sentimental items of mine and the loss hurts still but the most important ones I was able to take, like I was able to get all my documentation and cards out of her house. I didn't even bother with the ring. It was just money and she was already acting up.

Uncle drove my car home while Dad had me fly with him. I'm ashamed to admit that the months directly following the breakup were almost worse than the time I spent with her, because I was out of survival mode and I couldn't force myself to function the way I used to. I felt like a parasite on my father, unable to get my shit together, falling apart over nothing, being so volatile it frightened me. I'm in therapy again. Sometimes I feel better, like I can see a way forward, but then I feel like I'm back in the thick of it and I'll never go back to normal and I'm permanently broken. Worse, every time I cry or get triggered or have a flashback, I can still hear her voice in my head calling me over emotional and too sensitive, that I'd be fine by now if I just got over myself, that what I went through wasn't that bad.

She sent mail to my dad's house for a while, threatening letters and pleas for me to see reason and stop overreacting, pictures of us that were sentimental, guilt trips. At first I couldn't get a restraining order right away against her because I moved, something about the jurisdictions and courts, but when she sent those letters it helped at least make sure she couldn't continue to contact me.

I found my old laptop a while ago and it had the password prepopulated. It wouldn't leave my mind, especially when I read what people were saying. Right now I'm just rambling to get my head straight, to be honest, but my dms were full of people saying how the sex must be amazing, how stupid guys get when they want to stick their dick in something, that I don't have balls or a backbone clearly and I just need to man up. Basically everything I told myself to remind me of what I did to deserve being stuck with her.

I don't know if I can muster the courage to address any responses to them but I really just want to tie up this lose end in my life so maybe I can stop rehashing it mentally and finally move on. I might also give my therapist the notebook I kept of Nicole's abuse but I haven't wanted to even look for it. There's still a box of shit that I haven't opened up because it's all fucked with my head so much. What I wish I knew at the start of all this shit was that any amount of genuine discomfort isn't an acceptable price in a relationship and you're allowed to stop giving them more chances even if they're trying and seem sorry. You're not obligated to help people change, even if you love them, even if they do slightly better.

Comments

Fish__Fingers

Glad you got out, OP. Wish you all the best and remember- it wasn’t and isn’t your fault. She used every trick she could. You survived and got out, that’s a lot. I think there are support groups. Maybe worth looking into it, talk with the people who had similar experiences. Hope you’ll find recourses and support you need for recovery and will live happy life from now on. Best of wishes to you

OOP: I appreciate that. It's hard to remember how to keep on sometimes, so thank you.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OP. Original post from by .

I want to order Japanese A5 Wagyu steaks for my birthday but I have some questions

Mood Spoiler: The stakes? Low. The steaks? Great!

22 November 2020

First of all, I was wondering how much I should order for my wife and I. I understand it’s very rich and I won’t be eating a 16oz steak myself, but I have no idea how much 2 adults would typically eat. I’m not concerned with the price, I just want to have the perfect birthday supper.

The other concern I have is the preparation. I’m hoping to cook it 2 or 3 different ways, so I’m looking for recommendations on how to prepare the steaks. I’m considering doing some sous vide and I definitely want to thinly slice some and hit it with the searzall over sushi rice. What other techniques do you all recommend? Also, what are some sides that would compliment the steaks? Thanks in advance.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

chittad: There’s a video that answers almost everything you’re asking

OOP: Wow apparently I’m terrible at finding resources. I spent a good 30 mins on the crowd cow website and didn’t find anything like this. That’s exactly what I’m looking for, thanks!

chittad: You’re welcome and a very Happy Birthday in advance!

Many other posters offered OP Wagyu cooking tips and side dish suggestions

UPDATE: 14 December 2020

I got a lot of responses on my previous post so I figured I’d take the time to update everyone on how my A5 Wagyu experience went.

First of all, thank you so much to every who responded. I learned a lot from that post and changed my wagyu night game-plan quite a bit based on those responses. If I do wagyu again I don’t think I’d change a thing.

I went with a from Crowd Cow. I planned on doing about 6 ounces for my wife and I but upped it to 8 ounces each, which ended up being a tad too much, but we ate it all anyway (mostly me) and I have no regrets. Next time I’ll do a little less but honestly it’ll be more to save money. I would happily eat another 8-10oz.

The first method, based on advice received here, I cut off about half the steak and for a little over 1 minute per side. It came out and I think it was my personal favorite style but it’s difficult to say. It’s hard to judge something so amazing. We ate this by itself or with a bit of wasabi and soy sauce. Also went great with the sushi rice.

Next I and with some real Japanese wasabi, thin slice of raw garlic, and a small pinch of finishing salt. This went amazing with a touch of artisan soy sauce. Thank you to for this recommendation, we enjoyed it immensely and I highly recommend anyone considering doing Wagyu to try this method, as unconventional as it may seem.

The last method, which was my wife’s favorite, I took 1-inch strips of the uncooked steak and seared them on a super hot pan until nicely charred. Unfortunately I didn’t take a pic as I cooked these halfway through the meal and was too busy having the best experience of my life. The strips came out perfectly crispy, and although they were cooked medium to medium well throughout, were incredibly tender and melted after a couple bites. It’s true what some of you told me, A5 wagyu does not need to be medium-rare. I’m glad I listened to you all on that regard.

, sans the well-charred strips that were cooked later. The steaks went perfectly with some sushi rice and a Sichuan-style smashed cucumber salad. The vinegar in each provided a perfect balance to the rich steak. Shout out to for the cucumber salad recommendation.

.

Thanks again to everyone who helped. I learned a lot from people I didn’t mention above, , , to name a few.

If anyone has any questions about my experience please feel free to ask!

I suppose since this is I should take advantage and ask a question. What do you all recommend I make with my leftover wagyu fat? I have a good 2.5 ounces to work with.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

darfooz: Use the fat to make some fried rice. That’s what they do in Japan so I’m sure you can find some recipes for it. It is incredible and you won’t regret it!

OOP: This is what I ended up doing. It’s was easily the best fried rice I’ve ever had

Reminder - I am not the original poster.

I am not The OOP, OOP is

Thousands of Dollars wasted hosting a “friend”

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: Mentions of drug use/drug abuse. Entitlement. Descriptions of gross behavior, financial exploitation

June 17, 2024

Originally posted on an alt but it got deleted because of lack of comment history. I wanted to hide comment history since it highlights country in question but idgaf anymore. NSFW just in case. Mentions drugs and sex.

My friend from high school has been down in the dumps for a while. It’s her third year of college and while her parents pay for all her school needs and a little more, her reluctance to get a part time job leaves her strapped for cash all the time. This culminated to her spending all three of her summer breaks in relative nothingness.

She’s taking a gap year to stall out her senior year and I offered to host her at my parent’s house in my home country. She was ecstatic. I told her to bring enough money to be comfortable but to not worry too much about food costs as my parents can foot the bill (my parents offered to do so). For some reason she thought that this meant we would be paying her ticket. Mind you, a ticket would’ve costed minimum $1100.

Chaos ensued just two weeks out from the designated time of her arrival but she managed to cough out a ticket, courtesy of her parents. We’re on the third week of her stay and it’s been hell. I never knew anyone could change so much in 5 college semesters. Because we were long distance friendship, I never saw her behavior in the flesh. Let me just highlight some of the utter audacity of this bitch:

• She’s been avoiding doing the laundry, stuffing all her dirty clothes underneath the bed. At first it was because she was too lazy to put her clothes in the hamper (my mom graciously do all our laundry, mostly because she’s into fitness and a busybody), then when it ended up piling up she got too embarrassed to admit it. I ended up doing the laundry for her. Her room is a mess from her nightly food binging and somehow she snuck alcohol bottles into the house. I’m well into my fourth gnat trap in her room because she can’t keep her shit clean enough to avoid an infestation.

• She FaceTimes her cousin or best friend or whatever in the middle of the night. Then when she inevitably misses on our agreed schedule the next morning because she’s too tired, she lies and tells me it’s because the mattress is too uncomfortable. I can literally hear you laughing in the other room.

• We went to a bar. She meets a local there and asks me to hang around the city while she dates him because “she didn’t want to be left alone.” I told her to eat ass because I never agreed to being ditched like this, but decided to stick around anyways because I still had things I wanted to do in the city. Come night time and I went to pick her up only to see that she changed her mind and went home with the guy she just met. Womp womp.

Later she tells me she lied to him, saying she moved here. He didn’t want a one night stand with a tourist, but an actual relationship. She just wanted free drinks and sex. She then mentions that she was getting frustrated because guys weren’t approaching her when she was a foreigner??? She’s literally the same race as the locals, except with a darker complexion. Think French vs Portuguese in comparison.

• She’s doing drugs. Like, the illegal ones. I don’t even know how she got her hands on those, probably from the guy she just met. She brought them home and tried to smoke out the window. The drugs are gone from the house at least, I used cleaning the room as an excuse to flush it out(not literally).

• Parents bought us event tickets that were approximately $70 each. She decided to go to a club instead and wouldn’t answer her phone when I was left blindsided. She agreed to go, but didn’t tell me she changed her mind. I lied to my parents because I didn’t have the heart to tell my mom only I went.

• She never tells us when she’s hangover or whatever. Only after my parents buy the food she decides she’s too wasted to eat.

• Parents asked her to be a bit more thorough with her scheduling because she kept cancelling plans and sleeping in. Her response was to call my parents nosy and told them to get off her back. Luckily they don’t speak her language and they didn’t bother asking me what she said. They know she’s being a bitch.

This isn’t even all the things she’s done so far. My parents have spent close to $3500 on her, ranging from food and luxury trips around the country. They were going to take us to get a full course meal ranging around $150 and a trip to another country, but cancelled everything because of her behavior. Now she’s asking me about these things that were supposedly “promised” to her and I just told her straight that she’s acting like a festering cockroach.

I think she knows our friendship is over. She came out of the room yesterday after a day long sabbath, pretending to have starved out of stress. She has snacks stashed in her room and when I peeked in to see wrappers on the floor, she slammed the door in my face so I couldn’t see the mess. She claims that she’s just depressed and didn’t realize my family had all these “eastern” rules that was too foreign for her comprehension. rules like no shoes in the house and well…. Not turning the room into a pigsty. We both literally grew up in the same western country so these rules being too eastern for us is new to me. This isn’t even considering her family is also from an eastern country.

She sat me down to tell me we need to communicate better on what I expect from her since we’re adults now but I don’t see why I need to “communicate” that she shouldn’t be putting half eaten ramen in the closet for two weeks??? Anyways, I told her she can do what wants to do for the last week, and I’ll stay out of her hair. She again asked me if we were going on that foreign country trip we initially planned for. I told her no, and she’s sulking in her room again. Oh noes.

Anyways, I have one more week with this…. parasite. Reddit please give me strength.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

TheRealRedParadox

Yeah burn that bridge and never speak to her again OP, I'm sorry her true colors came out that way

OOP

Thank you, she sounded so put together aside from her obvious financial issues when we were long distance… I thought she was genuinely just a bit depressed 😭 Known her since elementary school but this friendship is no longer salvageable.

OOP on why they put up with the friends behavior

Luckily and unfortunately we were long distance for the duration of college. So luckily I didn’t deal with any of her new behavioral issues because she never showed me any. I knew she did develop a liking for smoking but it wasn’t as if I never smoke a blunt.

Unfortunately for me all her issues came to light around the second week of the vacation. That was when I had to start intervening on her mess and she started to slip back into her partying habits. By the third week it went fully blown up and now my parents know. Parents aren’t letting me kick her out but they sure am letting her know she’s only welcome to stay for another week assuming she’ll stay relatively clean.

June 25, 2024

I wasn’t going to update or anything but I thought what happened two days ago warranted another post. NSFW just because the original post had it.

Summary of OG post: My family decided to host my friend in a foreign country, and proceeded to spend thousands of dollars on her. It all goes down the drain, culminating in canceling a trip abroad planned for her due to her drug and generally terrible guest habits.

This isn’t some coming of Christ or scorned lover (friend?) revenge update but I felt the need to vent. About 4 days ago I went on a camping trip with the family. My “friend” decided to sleep over at the her new not-so-one night stand’s house until she left the country, most likely because she no longer felt welcome in my house. I told her we won’t be home but I get a text message from her while camping saying she’s going back home and needed the passcode to the house. There was no way in hell I was going to let her in the house alone so I ignored her text. She blew up my phone shortly after, including calls that I can’t even pick up anyways because it’ll bill me international calls.

Judging from her sporadic text and calls, I can only surmise she got kicked out of her guy’s house. Unfortunately I only got her side of the story but I suspect she either got too hung up on his drugs and ignored him, or grossed him out with her living habits. Did I mention this girl left vomit trails in the bathtub? Why doesn’t she puke on the toilet?! It was either that or she revealed she doesn’t actually live here since she did trick him into thinking this isn’t going to be a summer fling.

I texted her back while coming back 2 days ago telling her I didn’t have reception, and she replies with a real short “ok.” We let her in some time in the evening because my parents are still willing to house her, and her way of showing gratitude is to give us the cold shoulder. She asks me to buy her dinner later because she’s broke after affording a day at a hotel. Mmkay. I just rolled my eyes and said no, she’s not my responsibility.

She comes out of her room later dressed like she forgot half her clothes in her room. I felt like I was in the twilight zone watching a 26 year old woman wearing booty shorts and a small tank top with little duckies and ribbons on it. I gave her a weird look and she tells me she’s going to ask my parents instead since they’re nice and she’s “cute.” I swear I fucking barfed then and there. I guess the reception wasn’t what she expected because my mom laughed at her the moment she saw and my dad gave her a look of absolute disgust. I guess she lost her nerve and didn’t bother asking. She just casually grabbed some water and walked back to her room. I don’t understand what her plan was, did the shock of getting dumped by her fling make her think she can seduce my parents? 😂

This whole thing was so stupid, she just wanted to eat expensive food considering you can eat a meal for less than 5 dollars in my country. She lives in some fantasy world where she’s entitled to things as long as she does some cliche main character stuff. She’s been quiet after that so I guess going through that mental trauma was worth it.

She just left the house several hours ago. Because she’s just been so out of her mind due to all the partying, she completely forgot it takes a good 1 to 2 hour trip to the airport and she left the house in tears because she’s late. She even had the gall to yell at me because I didn’t remind her or reserve a bus ticket and I told her she’s 26, not 12 years old. If she can’t figure out how long it takes to get to the airport ahead of time then she’s not mature enough to be doing drugs.

Lo and behold not only did she miss her flight, she lost her wallet at the airport in the chaos. She only bothered to tell me about this because she wanted me to book a hotel for her while she figures that all out. lol ok sure.

She’s out of my hair now and I’ll probably never talk to her again. It was so stressful in the beginning but towards the end I just didn’t care anymore. Thank you to those who commented on my OG post. You guys were real gems who kept me strong through the filth that is my leech. I didn’t reply to most but I did read through all of it. Have a nice day and remember to take the trash out before it wears lingerie and tries to seduce your parents.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Wide_Razzmatazz_8697

Your parents are saints

OOP

They truly are. But they’re also very low key people who hang out with other low key folks so I get the feeling they just found her antics really entertaining.

~

Maleficent_Can_4773

Wait.. 26 is old for short shorts and tank tops for lounging around the house? Well shit, I'm still doing that at 38! Unless the clothing was multiple sizes too small, in that case eww, weird, gross etc.

OOP

Hahaha not at all! I walk around my house in panties and tank tops in the dead of summer from time to time. Yeah the clothes were.. I don’t know how to describe it but like intentionally infantile? Like very childish and weirdly sexualized. She doesn’t normally dress like that, she usually dress in loose sheer tops with leggings or long pants.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

My (22F) BF (25M) doesn’t find me attractive anymore because I gained weight. How can I fix this in a healthy way?

Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability

Trigger Warnings: Eating Disorder, infidelity, body shaming

: June 10, 2024

Now to give some context before i start, i have had diagnosed anorexia for 8 years. I had an immense fear of food and was dangerously thin about 4 years ago. I have gained some weight shortly after, but my mental recovery has been difficult. I have only been feeling well for less than a year.

My boyfriend and I have known each other for 2 years. The first year was very difficult, he had just come out of a serious relationship that ended with him being cheated on multiple times. Because of how traumatic that was for him, he ended up treating me horribly. He has since apologized and has been amazing to me, however i know that multiple other women were in his life during that first year. My confidence was already shaken because of this, now it has hit an ultimate low.

We have had an amazing sex life until a few months ago, we used to get intimate everyday, maybe even more than once. Lately it happens about only once a week, and the passion is not there. He is very into me giving him oral, but just not sex itself. When we do have sex its always in positions where he can’t really see my face or my body. I’ve tried talking about this with him multiple times and nothing had changed, until today. I decided to be specific and asked him if me gaining weight had anything to do with his interest being so low, and he said yes.

Mind you, im nowhere near fat, for the first time since my teenage years, im actually a healthy weight. Now i do have some lower belly fat and thick legs, but i wasn’t bothered by that. Because i thought i was lovable and attractive no matter what… I can’t help but spiral, i know its not his fault that he doesn’t find me attractive anymore, but mentally im not taking this very well. I have the desire to cover up every inch of my skin, I get very uncomfortable when he tries to touch me in anyway, conflicted in whether i should have a meal or not etc. How do I get through this in a healthy way?

Relevant Comments

OOP on if she thinks her boyfriend was being an asshole for saying that he didn’t find her attractive

OOP: he really wasn’t and yes, i asked it. otherwise i don’t think he would ever say something like this to me on his own. i get why everyone is advising me to let this relationship pass, but i also do agree with you on the importance of honesty. i’ve been wondering if i worded myself the wrong way…

OOP on the possibilities if something has triggered her boyfriend or herself

OOP: nothing triggered anyone, i asked the question and i got my answer. my response is indeed not that of a normal person’s considering my ed, i just want advice on not spiralling on this issue (as in covering myself all the time etc.) and moving on without feeling any sort of resentment(?)

: June 23, 2024

Link to original post:

I had posted a little more than a week ago about this situation with my partner. (Link above) Since then I have been working out daily, eating what I consider to be healthy, and honestly I’ve had an amazing result in such a short time. Now I must make clear that I’m not doing this in an unhealthy way. However the toll this took on my mental still didn’t completely go away. I have been having a hard time getting intimate with my partner, because I get very nervous to his touch.

I had a conversation with him on how I’ve been very happy with this new routine and the results I see on my body, he said “Good, you still have a little more to go” and pointed at my lower belly. He does compliment my body also and call me beautiful also, but I found this comment to be unnecessary and very toxic so I tried to chat with him about it, he just said it’s ‘normal’ in a ‘normal relationship with a normal communication’. I got mad and told him to go home, and that I needed to think on it. Now since I have an ED (anorexia to be specific) I don’t know if I am overreacting to stuff like this. I had also told him to research what anorexia is and be a bit more sensitive towards me when the topic is my weight a week ago, he said he would but he didn’t, and he also kept commenting. He said he just wanted to motivate me since I’ve already started working out. Is he right? Am i overreacting? Is it just an innocent comment with no bad intent?

UPDATE: Thank you for your comments, I know some of you were mad that i posted twice and not listened to any advice from the first one. I know you all mean well, I had a hard time accepting the facts because of many reasons that I do not want to get into. You’ve all been very supportive and kind, thank you for giving me the courage and the push towards the right direction. I have ended things and will be focusing on myself from now on. And please do not worry about my health, as I’m trying my hardest to eat (and succeeding) even when I do not feel hungry due to stress. Much love and again thanks to all of you. ❤️

Relevant Comments

OOP responds to multiple questions about keeping her health in check and not relapse back to her old habits with anorexia

OOP: Do not worry, I’m not restricting myself from anything. I’m still very healthy, thank you for your concern 🫶🏻 + I’m not back to my disordered habits, there’s no need to worry. To be more specific, my mother was there with me during the entirity of my ed, from my lowest to my recovery. I have voiced my concerns of relapse and we’re doing daily check ups of my eating habits 🫠 Thank you for asking 🫶🏻 + Having an eating disorder is a mental illness, not just physical, just like a drug addiction is. You’re never mentally free and always have the risk of relapsing, but that doesn’t always mean it has to be the case. I’ve had my fair share of relapses or slips, but yes, I’m doing fine at this exact moment.

GoldenHind124: You're not overreacting and your gut reaction is telling you something here. Why can't this dipshit bf of yours just say something encouraging without offering an evaluation? Why can't he just simply be kind? No, he just has to shoot his mouth off with that nugget and further worsening your insecurity and self-esteem. I can't BELIEVE for a minute that this is being done without malice. And I promise you, that shittiness gets much worse over time, not better.

I think it is time to call it on this relationship before the real harm sets in. Keep focusing on your health and following the proper guidelines for ED treatment. Seek out help from a therapist that is trained in this recovery because I am worried for you and you need positive support OUTSIDE of your relationship. Good luck and hugs <3

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Ongoing as per OOP

3 updates - Medium

- 24th June 2024

- 29th June 2024

Two updates added after original posting

- 1st July 2024

- 1st July 2024

My husband isn’t manly enough

I know! This is a horrible, horrible thing to say, but I have to say it, it’s a throwaway account.

My husband and I are in our mid forties, married over twenty years and have three beautiful children, all double digits. I do love my husband, but I don’t know if I am physically attracted to him, not because of his looks but of how he lives his life.

My husband is a good man, treats me very well and is an amazing father to our children. Physically, he is tall, broad shoulders, no skinny or athletic, but not obese. He is a big guy with a big beard, big arms, big hands, he is built like a line backer. He can physically intimidate people with just his presence, although he never goes in to intentionally do that. He can control a room and has a very “masculine” job he excels at. However, the manliness ends there.

This is why I may not be attracted to him anymore, if I ever was. He is not handy. It’s not that he doesn’t try to fix or do things around the house, but he cannot build anything. Anything he does fix never looks or works right. A lot of times we have to hire people to do fix or build things for us.

He doesn’t drink, he will go out once in a while and have a couple of beers, but he doesn’t drink at home. My husband isn’t into any “manly” stuff. He doesn’t hunt or fish or do anything with automobiles, and is not big into sports. He has taken the kids fishing and shooting, just so they have the experience, but he does it just for them.

He really doesn’t have any hobbies. I begged him to take one up, so he started building Lego sets? He’s in his forties! He loves going to movies, he likes cooking (I never have to cook when he is home) and he does a lot of the house cleaning.

I will give him this, he doesn’t play video games or board games (unless family time) or do animae or any of that. He is not controlling in bed, sex is ok, but I want him to take charge.

I won’t say anything about this to him. I wouldn’t know where to start. I do love him. It’s not that I want him to be a drunk or macho aggressive jerk, but sometimes I just want a man to take charge and fix things and be a man!

This is bad, I know. I feel bad saying it, just needed to say it.

Comments

JellyToeJam

Sooo he’s a great husband, helps with cooking, is a good father, is physically masculine, but because he doesn’t care about sports, drink, or build stuff, you aren’t attracted to him? Uhh ok…I’m sure there are tons of women out there who’d be happy to take him off of your hands so you could find a ‘masculine’ man…

TheSwedishEagle

Are you out of your mind? This has to be a fake post designed to provoke outrage.

OOP: It is not. I know how it sounds, I should have framed it more as a question or advice on how to get my mind straight. I cannot seem to fix myself, change my feelings.

JellyToeJam

Seems you want an asshole who doesn’t prioritize you but can build stuff.

WisdomWithinMe

Get professional help before you destroy everything. The problem isn't him it's you, go for IC asap.

Low_Yak1719

Wait! He cooks, cleans, takes good care of the kids and provides well for the family? Don't we normally hear complaints from women about how their husbands NEVER do any of these things? God, I guess we just can't win. Thanks god not all women are looking for some dream, some fantasy they have concocted in their heads! Wow. Some people just live to complain I guess.

**Judgement - No judgement on but everyone advises her to count her blessings and get some help**

Update - 5 days later

Hello. I wanted to add a little update to my original post. I don’t know how to link it to this one, so you will have to go into my history.

I received ALOT of hate for my thoughts and feelings. I realized when I wrote them and read comments about them that they come off as mean and cruel. I have no right to feel this way. The problem is that I do feel this way. I don’t know how to change it. I thought about it for a few days and finally needed to take action because it was weighing on me so bad.

I received some messages from people telling me to have a conversation with my husband. I decided to. I thought for quite awhile about what I would say, how I would say it and tried to think of questions or statements he would have that I thought about responses to.

Last night we had the talk. Kids were at work and friends houses. We were sitting outside enjoying the fresh evening air. I brought it up. In short, nothing went as expected and I am as confused about my marriage than I ever was.

I began by telling him that I love him. I love he is a great father and person. However, there were some feelings I could not shake and there were some changes from him that I needed.

I talked about his hobbies, changing it up a bit. Working on our bedroom, what I wanted out of it. I explained in the most sensitive way that I could about how I feel about his personality and overall measure as a man. I DID NOT use those exact words, I was more gentle. However, in order to move forward with our marriage, I felt I needed to be honest.

I did tell him that I wanted honesty from him as well and wanted him to tell me what I could do to be a better wife. I know I cannot ask him to change without having some myself.

I never expected his reaction. He literally just stared at me. Said nothing. Emotionless reaction. No anger, sadness, acceptness, NOTHING. Just stared.

I said everything I wanted to say. I was looking for response. I got none! After sitting in silence for awhile, waiting for some reaction or words, I just yelled at him to say something! At least tell me what I need to work on.

The only thing he said to me last night is “I knew who you were when I married you, I am not going to ask you to change anything”.

That’s it. We sat in silence for at least an hour after that. Our oldest then came home from work and he went to talk to him for awhile (not about our conversation, but how work went and stuff). My husband did not sleep in bed last night, he slept on the basement couch.

I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to feel. I do feel better about telling him how I felt, but not as great as I thought. I really really do not know how to feel. Maybe that’s a sign my marriage is over? I can’t feel anything about it? I should be happy I said it, sad he won’t talk to me, angry for no response, but I have nothing.

I guess I’ll give it some time for both of us to process.

Comments

pabeinstein

He responded like a "man enough" to me

NiceRat123

And now OP will know what the "strong and silent" type feels like..

relationshiptossoutt

Haha, you ruined your marriage. Should've listened to the other thread and looked inward.

There's nothing for your husband to process. Seems he's processed it. He knows you don't want to be married to him. You told him that. How hurtful.

I hope you remember this moment as you sign those divorce papers. The other thread was your moment to focus inward. You didn't. Instead you destroyed it all.

Sucks for you, sucks more for him. So I feel no sympathy for you.

F9-Monkey

Imagine a husband telling his wife: “Honey, I love you. You’re really great. But I think you’re not women enough. I would feel better if you to do traditionally feminine things, like all the housework, cooking and cleaning. You should also wear a nice dress, to look more ‘woman’. Then when I get back home from a hard days work, give me peace and worship my cock in the bedroom whenever I want it, even when you might not be in the mood.”

That’s effectively what OP did, just with the genders reversed. It’s a bold strategy.

SourceSeparate3759

And.There.You.Go. “You’re amazing, but all the other girls on social media have husbands that fix stuff, and are ‘manly’, and I want you to be like them. For me, of course, but you’d be happier that way, I’m sure of it.”

Enjoy the cats and “Golden Girls” reruns in your future.

artnodiv

You asked for advice.

You got advice.

You didn't listen to said advice.

Now you've ruined a perfectly good marriage because you did not take the advice you asked for.

This is a YOU problem, not a him problem.

WielderOfAphorisms

he opposite of love is indifference. I think your husband may have just checked out.

Update 2: My husband isn’t manly enough - 2 days later

I apologize again, I still do not know how to post my previous updates or the original post. Please look at my history.

My last update I laid out what happened about talking to my husband. He spent that night and last night on the couch downstairs sleeping. We haven’t talked about our conversation. He has talked to me, but not about that and the talks we have are short. We have had our kids around all weekend so I never have gotten the opportunity to sit down with him and with him sleeping downstairs, I figured to just give him some space.

I don’t know how to proceed. I have talked with a co worker about this, just to get advice since I needed someone in my life to talk to. He advised me to give it a bit of time to let my husband talk to me, but if there’s no change offered by him than it may be time to tell him that we need to separate.

I don’t want to do that, but it may come to that. I want him to see where I am coming from and I want him to tell me what I can do to change.

That is where we are at. No real big update, but I will give him until the end of the week, if he doesn’t initiate anything, I will.

Edit: ok, I had to edit this post because there have been some comments about my coworker. I had these feelings about my husband before I talked with my co worker. We are not having an affair, we are not doing anything inappropriate. He is giving me some guidance because he is a man and I figured he could help. Nothing more than that!

Also, please stop calling me a pos because I have these feelings and am trying to navigate them with my husband. I cannot help my feelings any more than you can help yours. Think about that, think about an off feeling you had and wish you didn’t have. It’s happened to everyone, including you. So please stop.

Comments

JellyToeJam

Wait, you asked a MALE COWORKER for advice about this situation? Jesus. Your husband needs to leave you.

OOP: Just a friendly co worker. Nothing weird going on. Not any affairs or anything. Just someone to talk to. It’s possible for people of the opposite sex to talk to one another without there being anything weird

Update 3: My husband isn’t manly enough - a few hours later

This is not so much a update but a repeat of the edit on my previous update.

I am not having an affair with my co-worker. I went to him AFTER I was having these feelings about my husband. For advice only. There is no emotional or physical affair going on. I go to him for advice, he gives it and I either take it or I don’t. He is not pushing me to do anything, it’s just his advice. I literally have no other friends or family in this area or I would have gone to them.

Also, these are my feelings about my husband. I have tried very hard not to feel this way, but can’t stop. I don’t know how many of the angels and pure people on this app are able to control their feelings so well, but you obviously are better than I am. None of you have ever had feelings you couldn’t shake or feel bad about? If you say you have you are a liar. I posted on my feelings because I am genuinely confused/scared and don’t know what to do. I feel that you guys just bash but provide no answers. There have been some of you that have been beautiful and helpful send me DMs, and I thank you for that. The rest of you in the comments, think before you post. If you don’t want to provide sound advice, please just move on.

Comments

OverratedNew0423

You need a lot of attention, huh?

paulinVA

I’m shaking my head.You knew him when you married him, didn’t you. You’ll have some interesting stories to tell your dates when they ask why you’re divorced.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

2 updates - Medium-Long

Trigger Warnings - OOP was likely neglected by his mother + mentions of finding her overdosed and of her attempting suicide

- 16th June 2024

- 26th June 2024

- 1st July 2024

AITA for asking that my cousin wears clothes around the house?

I got removed from my parent's house by social services last week because my mom is going through some issues at the moment and is too depressed to leave her bed. I was first placed in a group home for 'foster children' though I don't think I'm a foster child because my mom is still caring for me she is just going through something at the moment.

I personally think I would have been fine staying at home because I'm very mature for my age, everyone tells me. But my grandpa reported my mom to social services which is why I got removed.

After being at the group home for a few days my uncle finally got permission to take me in for a while until my mom is better. I don't know my uncle that well, he's my dad's brother and since my dad died I haven't really had much contact with his side of the family.

My uncle lives with his two sons who are 11 ('Oliver') and 9 ('Jamie'). I've had to start sharing a room with Oliver and Jamie shares with my uncle since there are only 2 bedrooms in the house. I hate this because at my proper house I have my own room and I just don't understand why I can't stay there. I've had to be removed from school because my uncle lives so far away and they're not able to get a place for me until September which means I am just sat at home doing nothing all the time. I just hate it here.

When we're home Oliver never wears clothes, sometimes Jamie too but he usually wears underwear. But the second that Oliver gets home from school he just strips completely. It makes me feel so uncomfortable and weird because why does he feel he can expose me to that? I don't like seeing it and it just weird.

I mentioned this to my uncle and he basically told me to 'deal with it', and that this was 'Oliver's house first'. I told him that I think it's weird and it makes me feel uncomfortable. He doesn't understand how much of a change this has been for me. I don't even want to be here, and it's so weird that Oliver just won't wear underwear at least. It's not like it's a big deal? I don't want to see him undressed all the time.

Especially when I invited my friend Max over, Max felt so uncomfortable that he left early when he was meant to stay for the entire day. I'm not allowed to go over to his house which just makes it worst because now it's ruining my friendships.

Comment Thread 1

Commenter:

How old are you? Reach out to your social worker and explain that everyone in the new house walks around naked and you don’t feel comfortable there. They will most likely try to find some other accommodation. It will not be a quick fix though.

OOP:

I'm almost 15

Commenter:

You will not be allowed to live alone. But they may be able to move you to another home. Keep pushing for it. If the social worker will not help, escalate it. State that you feel you are being sexually harassed by your cousins and uncle by being forced to see them naked. You can go so far as to say your uncle supports it.

It may get messy and your family will blame you. Don’t let them make you feel bad for this. You did nothing wrong and are having a bad situation forced on you because of mistakes others made. None of this is your fault. You will survive this, and you can potentially have a better life if you are able to separate yourself from them.

Comment Thread 2

Commenter:

I am so sorry you are going through this. It sounds really hard. Is there a social worker monitoring your foster placement? I’m wondering if there is any adult other than your uncle you could speak with about this.

OOP:

I don't really have anyone else, I have my grandpa but he’s not responding to me

Commenter:

Any way you can live with grandpa?

OOP:

No, I can't. I was told it wasn't a suitable placement for me

Comment Thread 3

Commenter:

NTA

Why can't you stay at your grandfather's house?

OOP:

I don't know, but for some reason they told me it wasn't a 'suitable placement' whatever that means. I can't even contact him so I have no clue

Commenter:

Likely means they asked grandfather and he declined

Update - 10 Days Later - 26th June 2024

Update: AITA for asking that my cousin wears clothes around the house?

Hi guys, I just wanted to say thank you first off for all the support you guys gave me on my last post. I have a few points to update you guys on.

My uncle and I spoke about my cousins and my uncle for once I think was really nice and reasonable. He apologised to me said he was stressed with work and all the change and he shouldn’t have taken it out on me. He said he shouldn’t have said it was Oliver’s house first because now it’s all our house. He said he’s going to speak to my cousins that they need to wear underwear around the house or a dressing gown.

I told him I really was feeling lonely and depressed and that I wanted to get back into school. So we went back to my social worker and told them I really wanted to be put back in school and I’m feeling really depressed just sitting around the house. They managed to find me a place at a local school which I started last Monday.

Things have gotten better and but over the last few days I’ve been trying to organise a meet up with my mom but she isn’t answering my texts/calls and I’m getting a little worried about her. Last year I found her overdosed and had to call the ambulance and I’m really worried she has done something to herself again. I’ve texted and called my grandpa also but he’s not responding.

Does anyone know what I can do? Can I call the police to go and check on her?

Comment Thread 1

Commenter:

I’m glad to hear things are a little better. Are you from the UK?

If so call the police on 101 and ask for them to do a welfare check on your mother. Give the details that you are in foster care and that you have caught your mother attempting to commit suicide in the past. They should do a check and update you/your social worker who will update you.

OOP:

Thank you I’ll do that on the walk home from school today. My lessons start in 10 minutes so I won’t be online again until later today

Commenter Thread 2

Commenter:

Talk to your uncle about your worries about your mum. He is your guardian temporarily. You should also have a case worker assigned to you. I suggest talking to both of them about your worries about your mum. Either one of them can call the police on your behalf regarding a welfare check. Unfortunately the police don’t always take minors seriously in these kinds of situations.

OOP:

I think someone told me on the last post that my social worker is my case worker because I think case worker is just the American term for it but I’m not sure.

Okay I will get back in contact with my social worker today if I can’t get the police to do anything. Thank you

Commenter:

Ah, OK- are you in the UK? In that case I think your social worker should be the one to contact. They can contact the community mental health team if necessary. I wish you all the best; it must be awful being so worried about your mum.

OOP:

Yeah I am. It’s all I can think about at the moment so it’s really worrying me I just keep reliving the day I found her.

I’m really mad at my grandpa because he’s the reason I’ve already been forced to be removed from my mom so I can’t look after her and now he’s not even responding to me.

Update 2 - 16 days later from OP - 1st July 2024

Update: for those who are curious.

My uncle and I had a huge argument and he ended up throwing me out, which I don’t know maybe is a good thing I didn't really like living with him. Currently I am with a very nice old lady and her other foster child.

I finally managed to get in contact with my grandpa and I got an update about my mom, she's in hospital at the moment. She tried to end her own life again. I really feel awful especially because I wasn't there to protect her. I know everyone here says it isn't my job to protect my mom but if I were there she wouldn't have done this I would have been there. I don't know how well she is and they aren't letting me visit.

I asked my grandpa about why he took me away and then stopped responding to me and why he started to ignore me, he said he just didn't know what to say and that I was so angry at him. Which I am really angry. But I still wanted to talk to him.

I don't really think reddit is good for my mental health, people were sending me pretty horrible things to my DMs and telling me my mom had killed herself to get away from me. So I might not respond to any more messages and I'm not going to post any more updates.

Guys please be kind to OOP, remember he is a human not just a Reddit post

Thank you to the OOP () for informing me about the new update so I was able to post this for you guys

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

**I am not The OOP, OOP posted from 2 accounts: ** &

I (23M) broke up with my girlfriend (21F) of 3 years because she wanted to remain a virgin. Now she wants to get back together but told me she had sex with someone else when we were broken up. How should I proceed?

Originally posted to

Thanks to for finding the update

TRIGGER WARNING: manipulation, infidelity

  Jan 23, 2024

I [23M] met my ex [21F] 3 years ago. We lived on campus at uni in different halls of residence. After a few months, we got together and for the most part had a very happy relationship. There was always one issue though.

My ex grew up in a very religious home. Her father is a pastor. She has been open with her family that she does not share their faith. They weren't happy about it but accepted that she has to make her own choices on that. Nevertheless, I think some of that religious upbringing was still in her mind. I grew up in a different religion but was never very serious about it, and am no longer religious.

Our relationship was pretty normal except that she told me very early that she was a virgin and wanted to stay that way until she was married. It wasn't for religious reasons, as I mentioned she isn't religious. But she was very focussed on not disappointing her dad. We did other sexual things, just not intercourse.

I never had much luck with girls growing up, and going into the relationship I was a virgin. And I still am, at least if you classify being a virgin as never having had intercourse. Anyway, I was becoming more resentful of the fact that everyone I know was having normal sexual relationships and we weren't. I couldn't understand why she didn't want to have a full sexual relationship, though of course I never pressured her about it.

I felt that while I was at uni, and pretty broke, getting married was something for the future. Last year, I was in my last year of uni and she was working in her first professional job (her degree was shorter than mine, so she finished uni first despite being younger than me). She was talking a lot about all these successful guys she met at work, which did make me feel lesser as I was still a broke uni student. Coupled with her still not wanting a full sexual relationship, it did make me feel more resentful.

We had some arguments about it and after a while I felt that I should end the relationship as we wanted different things and our lives were on different paths. It was awful. She was crying a lot and I felt terrible afterwards.

Anyway, it has been nearly six months since we broke up. We haven't been in touch at all for most of that time. I have not been involved with anyone else in that time, as I was 100% focussed on finishing my degree. I have finally finished uni and am about to start my first professional job. She recently got in touch again and asked to meet up. I was hesitant, but decided we had so much good history that I should hear her out.

She told me she's been missing me terribly these past six months. That she thinks she wants to get back together, and is open to having a sexual relationship now. I asked her why now? What changed? And she looked uncomfortable. After a little prying, she said she had a short term fling with one of the older guys at work while we were broken up. Which is of course was fine as she wasn't my girlfriend anymore. Anyway, she said he persisted with her until she started having sex with him. She ended it with him recently. She was clear that it was consensual, but that the guy was very persistent with pursuing sex with her.

I was gutted. I couldn't understand why she'd make me wait all those years, but was fine doing it with some new guy she'd only been seeing a short time. I asked if the reason she was open to having a sexual relationship now is because she wasn't a virgin anymore. She said yes. I asked her to give me some space to process all this.

I'm conflicted and would love some advice on this. I have missed her a lot and still have strong feelings for her. But at the same time it feels like I was strung along for years. It's hard to put my finger on why I don't want to take her back. Everything logically makes sense for us to get back together. I'd even get to finally have a sexual relationship with her. But I feel awful about this whole thing and don't want to ignore those feelings.

ADDITIONAL INFO FROM OOP

Some of the comments are being very harsh on my ex. And I guess that's not surprising - you don't know her.

She's not some evil manipulative villain. At all. I would never have been with anyone like that. She's still the funny, smart, charming, beautiful girl I always knew. Any guy would be lucky to have her. I would be too, if I could handle the baggage here, but I'm thinking I probably can't and a clean break is the way to go,.

Though she may regret the relationship with the other man, it's not my business as she was a single woman and we were broken up. I wasn't ever expecting to hear from her again really - this whole situation is very surprising to me.

I'm feeling hurt because I guess this is a solid blow to my ego. That I feel like the lesser man here. I can own that and that's something for me to work on. Ultimately I have some hangups about sex from this relationship that I need to deal with.

A few people have suggested I could benefit from therapy. I'm going to look into that. I think I need help to process all these emotions from this situation.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Ginboy32

I would ask her why she was willing to sleep with this guy after such a short relationship but after 3 years she was not willing to sleep with you?

OOP

I think this is the right question. Because I don't know why, she didn't say. All she said was that the guy was persistent.   I'm torn about whether to simply text her that I don't want to rekindle things and leave it all in the past. Or whether I should ask more questions about what happened. Because this hurts. I don't know if I'm ready to get details of her relationship with the other guy. Sometimes I just feel like I'm stunted in some way - a few comments have said I'm immature and they're probably right.

I know I'm the one who ended the relationship, and that she's entitled to do what she wants with anyone else. Still doesn't make it hurt any less. And maybe it's just best to say goodbye and leave all this in the past.

  Feb 1, 2024

This is an update to my last .

Hello again. I appreciate people taking the time to comment on my last post. The response was a lot more than I expected with over 2000 comments. I’m amazed so many people wanted to comment about my situation. Thank you.

Warning, this post is long. I have kept a daily journal since I was 16. A lot of what follows is dumps from my journal. Yes, I know I’m not concise.

I’m going to refer to my ex as “Ellie” (not her real name).

I’d like to write a bit about the comments because so many people took the time to provide their thoughts and I appreciate that.

The majority of comments were some variation of “move on”. A clean break. A strong recommendation with a lot to recommend it.

A minority said give her a chance and see how it goes. Plenty calling me an arsehole for ending it because I wanted sex in our relationship, or for being “obsessed” with her virginity. That I dumped her because she wouldn’t “put out”. And quite a few saying my breaking up with her made her feel like sex is necessary to keep a guy and that it drove her heartbroken into the next guy’s bed.

There were a few “she’s pregnant” comments. Not that I know of, it’s not impossible but if that happens it won’t be anything to do with me.

The dudes saying I should fuck her and leave her (or worse - seriously some of you guys need a hug, or a psychologist)... no. I would never use her like that, no matter our past. Ellie and I were a loving couple for years. That counts for something even after we broke up. Feeling hurt doesn’t justify using her, or anyone else for that matter.

As for comments that I have some hang up about taking her virginity - My issue when together was that we weren’t having sex in our relationship, not whether she was a virgin or not. Her being a virgin was her reason for being abstinent, but wasn’t directly an issue either way to me. If she hadn’t been a virgin and wanted to be abstinent I would have been in the same situation.

The title of my last post was not great really - I broke up because we were not having sex, not because she was a virgin.

Bear in mind, for 3 years Ellie had everything she wanted from our relationship. Boyfriend, love, affection, loyalty, support, and a guy who respected her wishes to be abstinent. While she got 100% of what she wanted, for me there was a big element missing. And there was no way to reconcile that - either we were having sex or not having it. Sex requires both to say yes and that wasn’t going to happen.

With hindsight I should have ended the relationship early on, when Ellie first told me she wanted to not have sex until marriage. When we got together I was a naive 19 year old who had never had a girlfriend before so I kind of went along with things because I really liked her and got along with her so well. I fell in love with her and then kind of felt stuck in a relationship that wasn’t what I wanted. I’ve learned from this and won’t make that mistake in the future. I want to make active not passive choices in future relationships. To not just go along with things because that’s what the other person wants.

Our views about sex in our relationship were not compatible, so I ended the relationship rather than waiting any longer hoping she’d change her mind. It was scary to take that step and I put it off for way too long, because I didn’t want to hurt her. But I couldn’t stay in the relationship just for her, I had to also consider myself too. My mistake was waiting so long to get to that point. I regret that as it caused her more hurt than if I’d ended it early on.

Many of you say that sex just isn’t that important. But for me it is, at least as part of a relationship. You can disagree. That’s fine. Some people are fine being in no sex relationships. No judgement from me, but that’s not what I want.

Some people took issue with me saying I felt she strung me along. On reflection that’s fair. Ellie was clear to me about wanting to not have sex until marriage. I foolishly stayed way too long hoping she’d change her mind one day. She didn’t. That was my mistake. I strung myself along really. She never led me on in any way.

It hurt to learn that she had sex with the next guy relatively quickly after I waited so long. But she is my ex so that is not my business anymore. She is allowed to change her mind. She can have sex, or not, with whoever she chooses. I don’t get a say in that. My hurt is an emotional response, not a logical one. Logically I see she did nothing wrong by me.I’ll get over it. It’s just my bruised ego if I’m honest with myself. Feeling I’m somehow a lesser man because she took that step with the next guy. I know objectively that isn’t true, but I sure feel it.I was not a perfect boyfriend and I have made mistakes. I have learned from them. I don’t regret breaking up with Ellie and still think it was the right decision for me.

Enough background. A few things have happened.

Last weekend was the Australia Day long weekend. I was on a camping trip (in the Grampians for any Aussies reading). It was so nice to be in nature, to do some bushwalks with friends and decompress. It felt good to talk about the Ellie situation with my mates around the campfire. Most of them knew Ellie pretty well from our years together and they had a range of views, just like the commenters on my post. And I got the usual good natured shit about still being a virgin. I learned there’s an expensive bottle of scotch they bought a while ago that’s going to have its seal cracked when mine is.... bastards lol.

One great question a friend asked was whether I would have ever decided to reach out and take Ellie back if she never reached out to me first. The answer is no. It was so obvious to me. That cut through a lot of the confusion for me. I was being too passive in this situation, and needed to do what I wanted. Not just react to what Ellie wanted.

By the time I was on the way home, I had decided to not get back together with her.

But that was moot.

When I was driving home and got a mobile signal again (no mobile network where we had camped) the network delivered a bunch of messages from Ellie all at once.

She said she was wrong to ask me to get back together, and that she’s back with “Tim” (fake name) now. She also texted that the thing with Tim is more serious than she told me when she last met with me.

She apologised for “misleading” me about her and Tim’s relationship. (If you remember, she called it a fling before)

She asked if we could meet to talk about it. I was not happy so I just texted back “no”. Not very mature of me but I wasn’t in the mood to hear more about all this. And I was surprised and pissed off that she lied to me. That seemed very out of character for her.

She tried calling me but I didn’t want to answer. She sent another text saying “Tim and I had a fight. I shouldn’t have come to you.” And finally “I’m sorry”.

When I got home, I was an idiot and let my curiosity get the better of me. I looked up Tim online. His real given name is uncommon so it wasn’t hard to find. Found him on Linkedin which gave me his full name. Ellie is one of his connections and he works at the same firm so I was confident it’s him. He’s a “director” at their firm (one level below partner). He also has pics on Insta. Lots of posts about his adventures around the world at various events and exotic places, as well as shots with an expensive looking car. A few photos of him with Ellie with their arms around each other in Singapore in November. I guess that confirms it was serious - he wouldn’t have public pics with her for a casual fling.

All that just made me feel bad.  No good comes from comparing myself to my ex’s successful boyfriend. Ellie is not my girlfriend and I’m not in competition with Tim. So I won’t do that again. My ego’s bruised enough already. I have been living a very frugal life my whole time at uni (aka poor as fuck) so I know I can feel inferior when I see people with wealth. That’s another me problem to sort out.

Anyway, all that was on Sunday afternoon/evening.

On Tuesday evening, Ellie knocked at my door. She said that she knows I didn’t want to talk to her, but she felt bad about everything and hoped I would to let her explain herself, clear the air, then I’d never see her again if that’s what I wanted.I let her in. I was not happy with recent events but figured I might at least get a clearer idea of what’s going on.

It was a long, heavy conversation over 4 hours but here’s the gist as I remember it.

When we broke up she was devastated. She said it took a couple of months before she started to feel a bit better. She missed me constantly and wanted to see me the whole time, but when I ended it we agreed to keep apart and heal.

In September, she met Tim at work. He manages a different team, she doesn’t work for him. She said he was very charming and attractive and showed almost immediate interest in her. They got to know each other and he asked her out. She was worried it was a rebound but felt so much better getting his attention that she went along with it. After dating for a while she developed feelings for him and that later led to a sexual relationship. It wasn’t a fling and she dated him for a while beforehand.

I asked about whether he had pressured her into sex (last time said he was very persistent). She said she was trying to not upset me, she thought if she gave the impression she was reluctant to have sex with Tim that I wouldn’t think as badly of her. So it was a story to try and spare my feelings. I told her it just made me worried she had been assaulted. She looked shocked at that and said no way, she was actually the one who initiated their sexual relationship.

I said although I don’t like that she lied to me, I can understand why. I don’t think she did anything wrong changing her mind about abstinence. Yes I was hurt when she told me she was having sex but I have no right to judge her for anything - she’s a single adult and it’s her life. I don’t think badly of her.

She burst into tears and said something like “I thought you must hate me now”. I assured her that I didn’t.

She said she was sad it didn’t work for us, but that she never would have dropped her virginity commitment if we had not broken up. After we broke up, she decided that it was a commitment she made to her dad when she was still a kid, and it was messing with the life she wants now.So by the time she and Tim got into their relationship, she had already decided she was ready for sex with the right person.

I asked about her dad and she just said “He doesn’t need to know”.

I asked about why she asked to get back together. Tim is older (she told me he’s 32) and has been at the firm 10 years. One day at work, one of the women made a snarky comment to Ellie about being another one of “Tim’s girls”. She did some digging and it turns out Tim has a history. He has dated a long list of women from work, several of them were young graduate employees just like Ellie. The rumour around the office is that Ellie is just the next girl to get used by him. She was horrified. She accused Tim of using her. They argued and she told him it was over.

Soon after that she came to me. She felt as if we might be able to rekindle things now that she was open to a sexual relationship. But my hesitation and time to calm down made her realise that was a mistake.

Over the weekend, Tim asked her to work things out. She decided to give it a chance. She tried to call me but they went to voicemail (I was camping) so she sent those messages instead.

So I guess that's settled - I don’t want her back and she’s in a relationship so she doesn’t want me back either.

We chatted a bit about how our families are going. She congratulated me on finally finishing uni. She asked if I had been seeing anyone and when I told her I’d been studying hard and working a lot since exams (retail job) with no time for girls, she laughed and said I’m “still a big nerd”.

She hoped we could be friendly if we ever see each other. But she wants to keep out of contact out of respect for her relationship with Tim. She wants to give it a real chance of working. Which is fair enough.She gave me a hug, said thank you for understanding, and left.

So there you have it. Ellie involved me in her relationship drama. I would have preferred she hadn’t but at least it’s sorted now.I’m glad I paid attention to my feelings and took time out to consider things, as it could have been very messy if I had taken her back. Trusting my gut has been the biggest lesson for me in all this.

I still care for her despite recent events. It seems like she is dealing with a lot of complicated things between her new relationship and work gossip. I wish her well and hope she will be happy, whether it’s with Tim or not. She was my first love and I expect I’ll always have warm memories of her. But I am clear now that I don’t want her back. She is my past and I want to look forward.

Well this has become an essay. Tutors at uni always told me I was too waffly in my writing. Well fuck those guys, I’m not a student anymore.

I can now focus on launching my new career with no distractions. I’ve worked so hard for so long to get here. My new job starts on Monday. It’s going to be so great building actual real experience my new profession, not just endless theory. I’ll be earning much better money (no more student poverty!) and I’ve got graduation in May to look forward to as well.

I’m open to finding someone new but that is way down my priority list. I’m not going to actively pursue that anytime soon.

Cheers everyone for your comments and advice.

TL;DR We didn't get back together.

EDIT NEXT DAY - OK, you've convinced me! Today I blocked Ellie on everything. Since we agreed not to be in touch again, that shouldn't matter, but if she doesn't stick to that agreement (e.g. if she and Tim split/fight again) then it won't be easy for her to contact me again. I thought it was a petty thing to block someone, but in this case you've convinced me that it's a way to take control of the situation. With luck I won't hear from her again, and if I do - like if she knocks on the door - I'll remind her of our agreement and shut her off. Time to stop being passive and take charge of my life, a life Ellie will not be part of.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Terruhcutta

Glad you came to the conclusion best for you. However, I feel you gave Ellie too much of what she wanted to feel better about herself, at the expense of your own emotional well-being.

OOP

I was already pretty churned up about things from when she first asked to get back together. I wish she hadn't done that. But after she came to see me on Tuesday it was of easier for me, We got to mutually say no to a future together, and also put a lot of baggage in the bin.

Is Ellie going to be happy? I don't know. I hope so, but I have my doubts about this Tim dude. But you probably can't trust my judgement on that.

More relevant to me is whether I'm going to be happy. The answer is fuck yes, because I'm going to make that happen.

~

OOP on Ellie changing

I came to terms with our relationship months ago. When she came back to me, it stirred up some old feelings, because we'd been a couple so long. But thinking about it now, that was more of an echo of those memories than real feelings.

All of this drama was Ellie's doing. I would have preferred she never involved me so I could have been blissfully ignorant of her romantic life. I'd prefer to not know about her worldly, rich boyfriend. Or their sex life.

She's definitely changed. The Ellie I remember was scrupulous and honest to a fault. The Ellie I have dealt with recently wasn't like that so much. I think that's why her lying to me pissed me off so much. It wasn't just the lying. It was how out of character it seemed.

But people change. She's in the business world now, and people there live by different standards to the religious family she grew up in.

Anyway I have cut myself out of her life. So anything that happens with her is hers to deal with. If she comes back to me, I'll remind her we agreed to stay apart and leave it there.

I am not looking for another relationship right now. So no tinder for me. (and no, I am not looking for casual sex either. I'm a virgin but I want a meaningful connection, not just sex). As I said in the post, I'm open to something if the right woman came along. But I'm not actively seeking it. That might change after a while, but right now I want to keep focussed on my new career.

OOP on having closure

A lot of the comments here act like that final meeting was all for her benefit. Sure, she got some kind of relief or closure out of it, but it was also good for me.

Seeing who she is becoming just made is 100% no doubt in my mind that we wouldn't ever make sense. She has changed a lot in the last year - starting when we were still together and she had started her job. Random phrases like "work hard, play hard", being generally less kind and more dismissive of others. Clearly she was being influenced by those around her, but it was her choice to take on those behaviours. I loved the old Ellie, but I'm not sure I even like the current one much.

Anyway, I didn't feel like she intruded - I felt like I got a nice neat ending to the whole thing and can get on with my life with a clear conscience. But we're clear now that it's over forever and I have her promise that she will stay out of contact. If she ever does try to come back I can remind her of her own promise and close the door.

NEW UPDATE

  June 21, 2024 (5 months later)

Bumped into Ellie again

Hi. I’m the guy (M23) from this post and update.

My old throwaway got blocked so I had to make this new one.

I learned a lot through that experience and believe that I’m a little less naive than I was.

Many of you said I would see Ellie (now 22F) again. You were right.

(There was some confusion in comments previously about dates of graduation and work. I’m an Australian living in Melbourne. University here runs from late February/early March to November each year. Our summer holidays are in December-February. Graduate intakes into companies are usually in February each year).

If you recall from my previous posts, my ex “Ellie” and I mutually agreed to be no contact after some drama on her part. At the urging of Redditors I also blocked her to help maintain no contact.

I’ve been working since February as a graduate engineer and it’s been everything I hoped it would be. I’m meeting amazing smart people, learning so much every day, and am finally earning a salary after years of being a broke student. Having a little money in the bank and being able to afford to do things like eating out is such a nice change.

When I finished uni in November, I moved in with my brother temporarily. He’d just broken up with his ex and needed help with his rent. That’s where I was living when Ellie last came to see me. He found a new housemate, and since his place was on the wrong side of the CBD for my job, I moved into a share house in the south east of Melbourne. The place is a bit run down but the rent is reasonable (by insane Melbourne standards) and there are lots of pubs, bars and restaurants nearby. The location and my housemates have been great.

I’m seeing someone. I’ll call her Olivia (not her real name). She’s the sister of one of my housemates. We met when my housemates and I had a bbq and she dropped by. We got talking and were still talking hours later until everyone else had left. Her brother told us to stfu so he could get some sleep haha. I asked her out that week and we’ve been close since. My housemate / her brother has been making fun of us ever since including more than a few crude jokes when she stays over.

We agreed to be exclusive six weeks ago so it’s still quite new. She’s so cool. And smart. And gorgeous. The chemistry was instant and intense from the moment we met. We just click so well. It’s such a great time when we’re together.

Olivia is an accountant at a big firm. One of Olivia’s workmates was having a party last month. She asked me to come to meet some of her work friends. We went inside and Olivia introduced me to the woman who hosted the party, her workmate Jess. There would have been maybe 40-50 people there. I didn’t know anyone but Olivia.

At one point I offered to grab more drinks. The kitchen was in a separate room. As I was getting them, a guy asked me to pass him a beer from from the fridge. I introduced myself and he said “Hi I’m Tim” (fake name from my last post - he actually said his unusual name).

We chatted a couple of minutes about our jobs and how we know Jess, then I just said nice to meet you and returned to the group. 

I didn’t recognise his face as I’d never met him before, but it was definitely Ellie’s Tim - his job and firm line up. And he looked in his 30s, a bit older than most people at the party. Neither of us mentioned Ellie when we were talking.

Later on I asked Jess how she knew Tim. She said she used to work at the same firm as Tim (also where Ellie works) but she moved to another employer (where Olivia works). Despite living in a city of 5 million, it’s still a small world.

On the tram ride home I must have been quiet because Olivia asked what was on my mind. I said that Tim guy at the party was, or maybe still is, my ex’s boyfriend. I said I didn’t think he knew who I was or if he did he didn’t say anything. That prompted me to share some history about me and Ellie. Olivia was wide eyed and said “You never told me you were a virgin”. Then she laughed and said well we took care of that. She asked if I had any feelings for Ellie and I truthfully said no. I dealt with all that months ago.

More recently, there was a formal charity dinner that Olivia was asked to support. Her employer was a sponsor of the event. She was keen to “show you (me) off”. We were at a table with a bunch of her work colleagues. Nice people. One of her work friends was “so excited to meet you (me)” and “Olivia can’t stop talking about you”. That made me feel really good.

After dinner a few of us were chatting and I got a tap on the shoulder. I turned around and to my surprise it was Ellie. Tim was with her. It was so weird to see her again. Tim said he remembered meeting me at that party but never made the connection to Ellie until just now. She must have told him about me.

Ellie looked very different. She had lost a lot of weight and was very slim. The tight red dress she was wearing made that obvious (her dad would not approve). Not that she was ever overweight, but I’d never seen her that thin before. She was immaculately made up with what looked to my ignorant eye like expensive jewellery. She’d changed her hair too - now blonde instead of her natural auburn.  She looked like a sleek rich girl, not the poor pastor’s daughter I remember. Don’t get me wrong, she looked amazing, but she looked like a different person. I know it was a formal event so we were all dressed nicely, but this was a major transformation.

Despite her glam looks, when I saw her I didn’t feel anything for her. Just... nothing.

Ellie said she was so glad to see me and she had some news, holding out her hand to show a diamond engagement ring. I know nothing about diamonds but it looked pretty big and expensive to me.

I offered my congratulations to them both. Just then Olivia walked back over. I introduced her to Ellie and Tim. Olivia put her arm around me and Ellie’s smile seemed to kind of freeze.

I didn’t really know what else to say, so I just said nice to see you again and wished them all the best for the wedding. Tim walked off and Ellie just sort of stood there a moment. It was awkward. Later on, as we were leaving, Ellie was staring at us as we walked out. Olivia said later that “I think she still has a thing for you”. I said it doesn’t matter.

Anyway, cut to a few days ago. My brother messaged me saying Ellie stopped by looking for me. Yes Reddit, you were right. He knew to not share my new address with her, so all he said is I’d moved out.

Next day I received an email from an address I hadn’t seen before. It was Ellie. No acknowledgment that she was breaking our agreement to be no contact. No mention she stopped by my old place. It said “It was so great to see you again”, “I’ve missed you” and “That girl you were with is pretty, how serious is it?”. And telling me she and Tim have big plans for their wedding next year and she hopes I can come.

I was annoyed because she is trying to make her life my business. Again. Despite promising no contact. Even going to the trouble to make a new email address to get around me blocking her.

I showed Olivia the email and she rolled her eyes and asked me to think about why my ex would send me that. Why indeed. Olivia is great at cutting through bullshit and reads people way better than I do.  Ellie can’t have me back. I’m in a relationship now plus she’s engaged, and it’s not like I would go to their wedding. Who goes to their ex’s wedding? It wouldn’t be right. I don’t know why she’s trying to contact me, but I can guess that she wants to use me for emotional support again. Or maybe things are rocky with Tim, who knows? Whatever she wants, it’s not happening. She has family and friends, she can talk to them.

I deleted the email and blocked the address without replying. Ellie promised she’d keep out of contact and just couldn’t help herself. I still intend to keep my word re no contact, even if she doesn’t. I’ve also set up a filter to send any email containing her name to the bin.

Olivia and I had a talk after that. I asked if she was concerned about the Ellie thing but she said no, she’s not worried, she didn’t get “serial killer vibes” from Ellie. I’m glad none of this has put her off me.

So nothing too dramatic but it does prove you guys were right, Ellie couldn’t not contact me despite promising to do so. I was able to sidestep her much more easily than last time.

Ultimately this is a good news story. Life is so great right now. I’ve got a cool new girlfriend, a fun place to live and a new career I love. It has been easy to leave Ellie behind.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . They posted in .

Do NOT comment on Original Posts.

Mood Spoiler: happy ending!

Editor's Note: There is some accounting jargon in here, but even if you don't know some of the acronyms, the main points are comprehensible. I think I know most of the acronyms/words, but I'm going to verify them with my dad (who was an accountant) tomorrow lol. I'll edit the post to reflect what I find out!

Original : June 12, 2024

TL;DR - Bookkeeper saw everyone's salary on accident, extremely disgruntled and feels undervalued, but she's unconfident she get another finance/accounting job outside -- and CEO refuses to give her the raise I believe she deserves.

I work at a mid-sized industry S Corp in as a controller, and after two years of toiling with the owner, finally convinced him to hire some staff for the finance department. Currently have a finance manager, Jr. accountant, and bookkeeper in my team, all of which do an amazing job considering the circumstances we're expected to meet.

CEO is a massive senile idiot, who undervalues the finance department and think we're all a waste. He complains the department is too large, when he expects us to not only work on main parent company, but also his three subsidiaries -- one of which is in SA and a major headache to balance each month.

Our bookkeeper (25F) only has an associates in accounting per her agreed contract to educate herself as she works. She's extremely driven, catch a lot of finer details, and a studious worker. It's also a bonus she's always willing to put on more work, and wants to learn from everyone. However, while grabbing stuff from the main workhorse printer, she saw HR's payroll timesheet and saw everyone's salary...

I've been trying to convince the CEO during this year's review to raise her salary from $50k to $60k, as well as maybe get her a title promotion to accounting assistant. She's genuinely a huge asset to our day-to-day, but CEO refuses to acknowledge her merits. I keep telling her I'm desperately trying to boost her wage, but I can see her getting depressed -- worst part is she's not confident she can compete in the job market right now until she at least has her BSA...

Any advice on how to coach her? I genuinely feel sorry for her and think she's a tremendous worker..

Edit: We're a fairly profitable company, but CEO refuses to reinvest into the businesses. So we have more than enough room to raise her (and honestly quite a few other's salaries), but he's a moron set on the mindset that finance department is useless.

Edit #2: Thanks everyone for the advice and being a place to bounce thoughts off of. I'll try to make an update post next week since I had the meeting with HR and our upper management about it.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Just be her reference. Help her get out of this shit hole by hyping her up to other employers. I'm sure at your position you may have some connections. 

OOP: That's the hard part... I keep encouraging her and giving her positive affirmation that she'll succeed no matter where she applies herself -- especially within accounting since she has a great niche for it (particularly in the tax prep side).

But she's very soft, and I'm not saying that in a negative light. It took me well over a year to break her out of her shell and actually apply herself, and speak up. I've told her if she truly wishes to leave, I'll vouch as a reference and also see if I can set her up with opportunities -- but she won't bite. She's that genuinely rattled that she's (her own words) "not going to make it in her current educational status."

Commenter: Then she needs to be encouraged to get her education. Allow her to study at work during down times, push for tuition reimbursement if that's not already being offered, be flexible with her hours so that she can attend classes.

It doesn't make sense that she's asking for more money where she is if she doesn't think she can get more money somewhere else. You push for raises based on your marketability and you're prepared to walk out if they can't get you up to market...not because someone with a degree and credentials that you don't have is making more than you. That's not how it works.

OOP: Full reimbursement as long as she gets an A. It's how she got her associates by taking the fundamental courses at a local college while working.

However, some of the more advanced classes she can't take all at once, so she's now back to 1 or 2 classes a semester. The current route is almost 2-3 years until she's near her BSA.

It's how I managed to convince CEO to hire her. Her employment contract lists she needs to be actively furthering her education. Otherwise, she's liable for termination.

Commenter: I second the be their reference. If you can’t win the fight, time for y’all to jump ship. You’re probably underpaid too.

OOP: I am $14.5k underpaid the market avg in PA. Considering I'm basically doing work for four companies, severely underpaid...

But I don't mind it as much since I'm closer to home, actually get OT pay here (prior to my previous job at B4), and WLB is worth the pay dip... However, I may jump ship with in the next year if CEO continues down this route..

Commenter: You should fire the HR staff who printed everyone's salary and left it at the printer. Then use those savings in payroll to give the bookkeeper a raise if she deserves it as you suggest

OOP: I had a meeting with the HR staff about two hours ago. They kept writing it off as an honest mistake and "apologized" to the bookkeeper for the situation.

I'm also setting up a meeting between the CEO, CFO, myself, and HR to discuss the impact of this situation, and how fucking reckless them using the main printer (WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR OWN) was...

Commenter: What is your goal here? Doesn't sound very productive. There's idiots in every company.

OOP: One of the many hats I wear is also adjusting company policies, for all departments (for whatever the reason...). CEO wants the controller to do it, so I just do it.

So while the premise of the meeting itself doesn't sound too productive, it's still a good way for me to have the CEO to acknowledge what went down. Like I said, he's borderline senile and needs these sort of meetings to know what happened.

Also, IF the bookkeeper decides to leave, I need to have the assurance that the CEO knows the reason why specifically. Not that she left because she sucked at the job, or some other nonsense HR will probably tell the CEO, but that what caused the initial reason is due to HR's lack of compliance to their own conducts. That way, if I need to find a replacement (which I will because we're honestly overworked), the CEO can't give me shit for needing another person.

Commenter: Just a general question that has been floating in my head since we accountants have pretty good access to Financials within the company we work for, but wouldn't the bookkeeper have access to everyone's salary anyways?

OOP: I think that varies on separation of duties. Traditionally, bookkeepers do often can issue payroll if HR doesn't handle it. However, in my company our bookkeeper only sees the total per pay period, not at an individual level, as myself and HR fill out timesheets and process payroll (due to CEO's weird confidentially paranoia).

So she may have had an assumed figure in her head seeing our total monthly payroll expense, but never knew how much everyone made. I think what got her is seeing a certain employee's figure, because they are notoriously a shit worker but gets paid a lot due to CEO's racial bias.

Update : June 20, 2024 (8 days later)

So last Friday, I had a meeting with the CEO, CFO, HR, and myself to address the idiot HR manager using the main copier to print payroll timesheets. The meeting itself went... awry, with my focal initiative being centered on addressing lack of compliance to policy, and leak of confidential payroll details -- leading to immediate consequences of disgruntled employees (apparently not just my bookkeeper saw it, but a few others as well)...

So the HR manager "profusely" apologized and the CEO basically kept excusing her lack of discipline. The CFO and I already laid out a game plan prior to the meeting, so we discussed how the bookkeeper is disgruntled and it's beginning to affect her commitment here -- highlighting that she's a valuable asset and human resource to the finance department, and company overall.

CEO asked what my proposed solution was and I brought that with this year's review for 2023, we give her a title promotion to staff accountant/Jr. accountant. This would then give more validity to raising her salary from $50,000 to $60,000 to match market rate in PA (on the min range), and help retain her dedication and excite her requirement to gain advanced education (BSA and beyond).

This is where shit hit the fan... HR manager says that's not a reasonable proposal and tries to convince the CEO to basically shut this whole meeting down. CEO, being senile and already having a negative opinion on the finance department, was easily getting swayed and kept asking for the CFO's opinion. CFO, being a massive kiss-ass, tried to play both sides because he's aware that he can't afford to anger the CEO or myself (since I basically do all of his work anyways...).

HR manager then pulls an extremely childish, borderline insulting, move: "if she's so valuable, why not forgo part of your own bonus for the 2023 review and give it to her?"

Here's the thing: I'm very fortunate to be considered a valuable member of this company, and my annual salary and bonuses are pretty high (even though I'm still below market avg. for controller). I also receive an incentive pay for working on the CEO's other three subsidiaries -- which I could cover the $10,000 raise that I'm proposing for my bookkeeper. As I am also underpaid, I also work my butt off for those bonuses and incentives, and unsure if that's 1) even legal and 2) a viable way to sustain a staff's pay... HR basically just told me to pay my own team's salary, which I'm still pretty aghast they would recommend such action.

I didn't provide an answer yet, and luckily the meeting concluded since the CEO had a prior engagement to attend to. My bookkeeper is still at the company, but it's pretty obvious her confidence and vibrant energy is gone. I haven't told her about the details of the meeting, but I can tell she's anticipating an update. Genuinely she's a great worker and I would love to keep her at the company, so I can continue working with her and developing her accounting career...

This is my first time encountering a situation like this in management, so I'm unsure what the move is here. If anyone can provide some advice, that would be greatly appreciated.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: I want to know what the consequences were for her [HR employed]? Should have been written up at a minimum.

OOP: The other HR staff, who I personally think should be the manager instead as he's more objective and stoic, has told me little tidbits here and there.

Basically, HR manager just got written up and a small yelling at... It was basically the equivalent to a slap on the wrist.

Other than that? God, who knows. She seemed pretty satisfied with herself walking out of that meeting.

Commenter: I’d leave a place like this so so so fast. Your boss can’t wholeheartedly have your back in a situation that you have a clear reasonable answer too? Peace out!

OOP: CFO has told me on the side he's willing to increase my bonus this year to basically brush this aside... Trust me, I'm GENUINELY contemplating it...

Commenter: This is all kinds of wrong. You're combining two different issues into one.

Issue 1: Data breach

Issue 2: Disgruntled employee and review of finance team structure

Issue 1 isn't really your direct concern. Head of HR and CEO to discuss. Data controller too if you have one. Complain that your direct reports are disgruntled at the misconduct and leave it at that.

Issue 2 isn't any of HR's concern. CFO structures the Finance team as they see fit. CEO signs off any changes to budget and headcount (if needed).

I wouldn't pay any credence to the HR managers bonus comment. It's show's their immaturity and other will notice.

OOP: I'll try to provide more details that I maybe should have included in original post.

Issue 1 is my problem because for some reason, the CEO made policy and procedure the Controller's job -- instead of like most other companies where either HR or COO handles it. So for some reason, it's fallen on my lap to make sure every department is compliant to their own manuals and overall company manuals.

Issue 2 is also a problem I have to address with HR involved, as for some reason the CEO DRAGS HR into the employee reviews. It used to be just CEO and department managers to review with their team's performances, allowing said team members to sit in if they request it.

However, a year after I started, CEO has incorporated HR into it for some reason, and now weighs their "honest/impartial" opinions on the matter... It's driving me nuts even typing this...

Commenter: So wait the HR has a seat at the table regarding their opinion, but doesn't have the responsibility over policy and procedure execution or even following it. So is HR just and this company just the payroll department but for some reason gets treated like an executive

OOP: Spot on. Our HR department is just basically there to listen to employees "complain," do bi-weekly payroll, and basically fulfill executive assistant duties.

They don't even do their own recruiting or screening. We literally have to expense anywhere between $30k-$80k to hire a recruiting firm every time we want to hire new staff...

Commenter: This is a clown company. You bluntly said your leadership is a mix of kiss-ass, senile, and incompetent. What are you still doing there???

OOP: Protecting my team's interests. After I know they're taken care of, then I'll make my decision to dip.

I feel like what I'm saying is green and too hopeful, but I AT LEAST want to keep my responsibility to them and do as much as I can for them before I leave.

Commenter: Leave and take everyone worth half a shit with you.

OOP: I have joked in the past with my finance manager, Jr. accountant, and bookkeeper that I'll kidnap them and start our own firm.

Maybe it's time to force that joke into reality lol...

Update : June 24, 2024

TL;DR - CEO refused offer, told me to basically pay her instead, I decided I would because I truly value her, told bookkeeper about it and it made her more disgruntled, she ended up quitting... I am fucking shattered emotionally and mentally, and I feel like I failed as her manager.

I'd first like to say thanks to everyone in this sub for their genuine comments regarding the matter. I've worked in accounting for roughly 6-7 years thus far, but only 2-3 in a management/controller position. This situation overall, and the feedback from multiple people, has honestly been an essential learning experience, so thank you.

CEO, CFO, and I had a final meeting while working on Saturday (we sometimes work Sat's with OT pay, only until 11 AM so WH workers can catch up on orders). Basically, the CEO said he can't do $10k and a title promotion for someone who doesn't even have their BSA. CFO and I argued back saying she's MORE than qualified in accounting experience, and that I personally gauge her around the same level as a staff accountant. CEO, pretty disgruntled, said he won't do it and that a $4,000 raise was all he could do for her -- and then he went with HR's retort and said "if she has that much potential, then YOU (me) can pay her that bonus..."

While I do think this is an overall win, I had a feeling my bookkeeper wouldn't be very happy with an 8% raise. Many people have voiced that my bookkeeper may be asking too much, but as her manager I truly do value her discipline, work ethic, and development thus far. So on the drive home, I steeled myself to basically cut $6,000 of my bonus and provide it on-top, so she can earn that $10k raise.

Fast forward to today, I had a meeting with my bookkeeper in the morning and told her about the results of the review. She was definitely not happy, and grew even more disgruntled at the fact that I was giving her part of my bonus. Maybe I am still too green but I wanted to be honest with her. I was hoping that if I tell her that I'm willing to pay part of her bonus, she would feel that even if the company doesn't value her, that I still do. I guess it had the inverse effect on her, as she started crying and thought herself as even more of a burden. I told her that if she needed, she could take as much time as she wanted to think about the offer, and no matter her choice I'll support her.

About 20 mins after the meeting, she asked if we could have a follow-up meeting. Moment we get in, she bursts into tears again. She starts profusely apologizing for not meeting standards, that she felt like a burden, that she caused me so much trouble arguing with HR and CEO, and that she was formally quitting as of today. I tried to tell her that I do not blame her, nor think she is unqualified (because I meant it), to try and calm her down. I tried to defuse the situation best I could, by telling her I'm not giving up on her review and that I'm still pushing etc..., but nada...

She left as of about 20 mins ago writing this post. Last thing she asked me was if I could help her update/revise her CV, and if I could get in contact with my network/connections -- to which I told her of fucking course. I'm writing this on my early lunch break because I'm fucking shattered. I know I can only provide her some connections, and maybe a great recommendation letter, but I genuinely feel like I let her down. This is a crushing defeat for me, and I'm pretty exhausted trying to cope with it as it's my first time in management dealing with this... I couldn't do it guys, and it's the worst fucking gut feeling I've ever experienced in a long time...

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: What else do you need to see to convince you that they don't give a fuck about you, or anyone else?

OOP: May be seen as a stupid reason, but after today I feel like I need to really step up for my other two team members (Jr. Accountant and Finance Manager). Even if I leave, I want to at least secure them good reviews, or set up some sort of a safety net in my absence -- ESPECIALLY because now I know the CFO won't do jack squat for MY team.

Finance Manager has more years than me, and the only reason he's "below" me is because he never decided to further his education. He's got a great head on his shoulders, and I imagine he can easily take up my position.

Jr. Accountant is still learning, but he's a great guy. Same with the bookkeeper, hard working, amazing work ethic, and strives to continue learning. So I'd like to at least secure him a promotion before I leave (our company does reviews per employee very, VERY slowly).

Commenter: That sucks…. Sounds like you didn’t fail anyone here. The leadership put you in a no win a position, and in doing so revealed how much they value you, your team, and your function as part of the business. The real question is what is your next move?

OOP: I've never stared at my CV this long in my life. I'm contemplating leaving, but going to first entertain the idea by looking at job postings in the tri-state.

And I appreciate the kind words, but this was a great learning opportunity for me -- albeit in hindsight I'm extremely bitter about losing such a talented staff member.

Commenter: Open feedback: as a manager, you shouldn't have told that much. Being a manager is not simply being transparent to those around you, but more being transparent while filtering the noise/reformulating bad news. It's also about putting things into perspective, especially for new/young hires.

You could have presented the 4K raise for the bookkeeper as a win with an incentive to have them get their degree : "Here's already 4K, and we can discuss compensation further once you get your degree". If you really insisted on getting her 10K while axing your own bonus, you should have never told her where it comes from. In essence, you guilt-tripped her. There was no reason to give her the full explanation in that case.

From my perspective, you were too empathetic with your employee. Remember: they had already gotten a hefty raise after only a year or two within the company (and I remind everyone here they're only 25), are yet to have a degree and then you get her another 8% while her title or education hasn't evolved? You should have put things into perspective and rationalized the situation.

Instead you've pressured your employee into re-thinking their career choice, and feeling guilty about getting a raise since you explicitely told her it comes at your cost.

OOP: I appreciate the feedback. I guess I did begin taking a more subjective stance on the situation, as I tend to pride myself in trying to be a "good" team manager.

That's entirely fair criticism, and I can now see the value of how a white lie may have preventing me from guilt tripping her. I intended it to be more of a "fuck the company, you're great to me" message, but I think I read her stance wrong. Thanks for the drilldown, this is honestly great.

Commenter: Man OP, it sounds like the most crushing thing is the fact that she still feels like a burden and that YOU feel like you couldn’t get across that no, she’s not a burden, as evidenced by your willingness to give your own money to her to keep her around because you DO value her so much.

Am I pegging that right?

Anyways, whereabouts are you located? I just started as an associate at a small public firm that’s always looking for new staff, and in my (limited three weeks lol) experience, they treat us right. I can refer her to the firm and see how it shakes out?

OOP: Yeah, it's getting to me on a personal level even thinking about it. I plan on reaching out to her to have lunch or dinner at least once before she lands herself in a new gig.

Entirely selfish, but I need to know she understands I never saw her as a burden, only a positive asset. She's smart, so she'll figure it out herself, but I want to make sure this incident doesn't permanently dent her ego.

Commenter: Do you have feelings for her?

OOP: Haha, I can see why it may be taken that way, but I can soundly say I do not. This isn't a slight to her, as I think she's great both as a team member and as a person, but I'm already infatuated with my current S/O.

I just personally dislike it when people pour their heart out, and that's not reciprocated properly. As her ex-manager, I still feel like it's my responsibility to ensure her some closure on that front.

Commenter: PLEASE update us with the CEO's reaction. Do they realize they might be losing you as well?

OOP: I'll try to make another post if I ever make a decision... I don't want to seem like I'm milking this situation for karma or something.

CFO at least knows I'm extremely pissed at this outcome, but CEO probably doesn't even care or know.

Comment 4 hours later:

I've been drafting up a proposal to bring in tomorrow (currently at home since took a half day). They're aware she quit, but I'm going to shove this proposal one last time as a last ditch effort.

At this point, the worst case scenario happened, so no loss on my end trying one more time.

Editor's Note: OOP updated after the BORU was posted! It is included here as it was within 24 hours:

Positive Update : July 1, 2024 (1 week later)

I wasn't planning on making this post, but well over 200+ people (thanks for flooding my inbox...) were asking for any major updates if they happen, so just sharing for people's peace of mind I guess.Just a minor update on both the bookkeeper's, and my own, statuses post whole HR debacle. Thanks to everyone for the guidance, and words of encouragement to bolster my steps.

Bookkeeper and I had lunch on Wednesday last week to discuss her future plans. She's still pretty beat down by the situation, but guess she hasn't been dragging her feet since she asked me for a recommendation letter + to be a reference for a couple gigs. She still plans on furthering her education, whether or not an opportunity arises, so at least she's still encouraged to continue her accounting career.

On Saturday, I got a text from her saying she was able to land a gig at a small, family-owned firm as a staff accountant near Delaware! Starting wage is $58k, 4% match, and a bunch of other benefits, so she got herself into a very good opportunity. I told her that as long as she applies herself the same way she did her previous experience, she'll do great and wished her the best of luck. She still plans on continuing communication, sort of as a mentor-mentee relationship, and I told her I'd be glad to!

As for myself, I finished reviews for my remaining team members and quit as of last Friday. I wanted to make sure my team was well taken care of, so that my exit wouldn't leave too much of a gap in work for them. Managed to get my Jr. Accountant promoted to Accountant + a 10% raise, so pretty glad I got to do one thing right there. To no one's surprise, the CEO and CFO were blindsided and tried to retain me in a panic on Friday when I was packing my stuff. Pretty much forced me into a meeting, offered me $24k, 8 more days of PTO, and letting me WFH on Fridays (even though that's not really a perk for me...).

As much as I would have loved to have lived everyone's quitting fantasy here, I just simply left it as this summarized: if they truly valued me, as well the efforts I've made to improve this company, they would have listened to me at the start instead of scrambling like idiots last second. I left, and then CFO sent me one massive text (not even a call...) basically begging me to come back lol... I just ghosted him because he's pretty useless in terms of connections.

I have no plans to job search at the moment, and maybe thinking about enjoying a couple weeks to myself before I continue my career. I have notified some of my connections that I am free, and already being headhunted, so I'm fairly confident I can enter a gig when I need to (pretty grateful for that honestly). Been enjoying my Monday thus far at home, finally catching up on The Boys and Three Body Problem. I personally think this is a win-win for both the bookkeeper and myself, but thank you everyone for the advice!I've also been curious to other fields in accounting. I've done PA at B4, worked at local firms, and an industry, S-Corp gig -- so if anyone has any recommendations to explore, I'd be down to explore them too!

Relevant Comment:

HR manager sent me four emails regarding updated offers. I know in the post I mentioned only the final offer they gave me, but it was originally much lower lol...

First offer was just a $8k bonus on top of my current bonus lol... which is not much... Second and third offers were minor add-ons. So they were still cheaping out on me until the very end.

As for any personal reactions, nada. Guess HR manager is too egotistic to admit they've screwed the pooch on this one. I told my Finance Manager to keep me posted if the HR manager gets any reprimand from this haha

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Short

- 29th June 2024

- 1st July 2024

AITAH for going off on my wife because she teases me even though our bedroom is dead

I(32M) am married to my wife(32F) for 6 years and together for 9 years. Our sex life gradually diminished into nothing after 3rd year of our marriage. We do not have children as of now. I handle my part of chores in the household(if not even more due to me working from home and being available mostly).

I do show her non-sexual attention and gestures such as massaging, kisses, being emotionally available and other things. I explained these because people tend to find fault from my side first after I tell them about the situation. I tried to have many talks with my wife about it but it all boils down to "we are not married just for sex, stop thinking with your thing down there" and so on.

However, she does not stop herself from teasing me. She'll talk about sex but just reject me afterwards and go to sleep. She'll be flirty but nothing in the end. I asked her if it's a kink and if it's, I am not comfortable with such a thing especially as our sexual life is in shambles. She said it's not a kink and she genuinely does not feel in the mood. I told her to stop teasing me then.

Yesterday was our anniversary and we had a great date together. She implied sex and teased me a lot during our time. I was hopeful that we'll do something in the end. Guess what? Once we stepped inside the house, she just showered and went to bed. Cool, I think I should approach. I tried and got rejected in the end. I lost it at that moment and just shouted my frustration at her.

I told her I am going to divorce her. I packed my clothes and some important belongings, and left for a hotel. She tried to stop me but could not. She has been calling me non-stop but I just need peace of mind right now. It's just frustrating. Being together with someone but feeling alone and unwanted sucks. On top of that, she gives me hope only to destroy it. I called my lawyer friend this morning and we'll start the divorce proceedings this Monday. I am just done at this point.

AITAH?

Comments

Nina_Bathory

NTA. It's really messed up to lead a person on like that, especially your own husband.

PM_ME_YOUR_PUPUSA

NTA. Emotional teasing with no follow-through is cruel. You deserve a respectful partner

Usual-Canary-7764

I used to think cruel and unusual would at the bare minimum involve batteries and some cables connected to balls. After reading OPs piece, I am changing my position.

How can she say they did not just marry for sex and find it normal that they have not had any form of sex for years?

Clauditzlupus

NTA that is messed up. Get out man. Get a lawyer, don't think she will be reasonable.

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 2 days later

Just came back from local courthouse after presenting the divorce intention document to the family court. My friend filled out my info on a one pager draft and that was it. I called my wife to let her know I started the process and I am okay with 50/50 everything. She called for marriage counseling and told me I should take what I did back. I realized I am extremely burnt out from trying and do not want to try anymore. That's what 3 years of trying with no results does to someone I guess. I told her we can have a separation counseling near the end of the divorce so we can understand the relationship from each others' points and end it amicably. She tried to talk it with me but I asked her to please make it easy for both of us and hung up.

She is messaging me and calling me still but I have no intention of talking to her if lawyers are not involved right now. My lawyer friend told me it's okay to leave the house as we do not own it anyways. I'll be staying with my parents for now. Next update will be once the divorce is completed. Hopefully it will be in few months, not years. There were a lot of comments on the original post and I could not answer all of them. Thank you for all the advice and help.

Comments

SagalaUso

I'm struggling to think what she feels she could possibly say now that'll fix things.

coupl4nd

I love you.,, I'll change... let me make it up to you... All of which will lead to nothing but the same thing within 5 days if OP takes her back.

I_Not_Edward_Snowden

It's all empty promises. Actions speak louder than words, and she's already shown her true colors.

Novel_Egg_1762

You asked her for years, now she wants to work on it. Get on with your life, find someone that you are compatible with. Much love, stay strong

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The original thread is about Linus removing watermarks but the more heated topic comes from the latter part of his rant where he talks about being infuriated over not being allowed to buy RAW files from photographers.

The thread is in which starts the popcorn machine as users from each sub invade the other to argue their points.