I am not OOP. OOP is and they posted on

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. This sub has a 7-day waiting period so the latest update is at least 7 days old.

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Trigger Warning: cyberbullying, abelism

June 12, 2024

I came home from work today and noticed my partner just sitting at the desk laughing to herself with her headphones on, so I assumed she was watching a movie or something and left it at that.

Not long after I poked my head round as I was going to ask her what she wanted for dinner and to my surprise she was on Reddit, which was odd to me because she is anti social media etc but I thought it was nice she was trying something as she suffers from agoraphobia and doesn’t get out much without me.

I briefly got a glimpse at her name and thought it would be interesting to see what she had posted (yes I know this was an invasion of privacy) and to my shock, the account was 8 years old.. this means it’s predated our relationship by a couple of years, what's even more shocking was the stuff she had said on there, so much hate towards random people, for seemingly no reason at all.

This was not just one comment here and there either, literally just an account dedicated to hating on people and she seemed proud of it in her comments, one recent example was she spent an entire day just hassling someone, it doesn’t even stop there because she will make up stories, fat shame people, bullying those with disability’s. (this one hurts as she knows I have autism) and claims everyone who tell her she needs therapy is “projecting.”

I would sometimes come back from work and she would be in a bad mood but wouldn’t tell me why, Upon looking at her comment history a lot of her bad moods seem to line up with days she got downvoted a lot, she even goes as far as to lie about her physical appearance just to bring down others, its sick.

How do I even approach this? This stuff is just downright hateful and I don’t want her to freak out at me.

What do I even do? I’m scared she is one argument away from someone coming to find her.

Relevant Comments:

:

Chances are - she already knows via this post

:

And therefore a high chance that this is fake. Why post on the other person's playing ground?

:

He may be subconsciously trying to call her out. I mean, he's scared to do it in person, which reflects very badly on the "good" parts of their relationship.

Victims of all sorts of abuse are often accused of being passive-aggressive because often it's the only way they can safely stand up for themselves. Plausible deniability.

If she sees this and wants to call him out, she's got to admit to him face to face that she a troll. If she sees it and is too chicken-shit to admit it, she'll at least hopefully be a bit wary that it might be about her and realise she could be caught.

:

This is the person you are dating.

This is how she behaves when there are no consequences of her actions.

She is not a kind person.

:

What do you think about having a partner who secretly likes to be cruel to others and thinks it’s funny? Only you can answer that.

:

Agreed, and the fact that her entire day/mood can be ruined just because she gets downvotes is concerning and extremely unhealthy

I mean if you need that level of validation for your self-esteem from internet strangers I think that some therapy appointments are desperately needed

:

Catfish her and make her harass you. Then cry at the dinner table over the ableist Redditor who ruined your self-esteem. Hope to find this on BORA in a few weeks.

:

Just say you didn't know she had reddit and that you were surprised at her online persona. Tell her you felt really disappointed at the things you read. Say the lack of compassion he had towards others was confusing because both you and her are... and yet she was making fun/ bullying people. Ask her to help you understand.

I dare say she will say you invaded her privacy and reddit is just a place where she can say whatever and be whatever she wants to be.

Then where to from there, no clue. All you can do is communicate and hopefully she will change how she is now that you know. Or she will make a new accounts- rinse and repeat.

:

JUST DUMP HER.

She's a 37 YEAR OLD MEAN GIRL A spiteful, BIGOTED schoolyard bully who never grew up.

Is that REALLY who you want to tie yourself to???

And frankly, I would NOT bother to confront her, nor unless you want an OSCAR-WORTHY performance with blubbering, snotty-nosed fake apologies.

Tell her it's OVER because you're just NOT feeling it anymore and need time to yourself for a while.

And, yes, she's FUCKING AROUND and she may very well FIND OUT. NOT your circus, NOT your monkeys.

She'll have to pull up her BIG GIRL PANTIES — and take the CONSEQUENCES.

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June 13, 2024 (the next day)

I had a lot of message requests asking if the post was about them, if you thought that then I think it's time to stop your crappy behaviour.

I want to address some comments from the last post:

I'm pretty sure she is blocked from this sub Reddit as all of her comments on this sub were removed according to a remove Reddit site and I also blocked her account while slightly adjusting the ages.

After sitting for a good hour last night looking down her profile in depth and bookmarking her worst stuff, I decided to bring it up with her, I was going to ask a mutual friend round, but I didn't want to embarrass her so i instead I put my phone on record in my pocket, in case she was going to claim I did anything against her.

I waited until after lunch and asked her if she could just stay there for a minute, set my phone to record and then brought up screenshots on a tablet, Her face dropped, she walked out of the room after a few seconds of scrolling. I was going to go after her, but I left it.

She came down and just said sorry, I asked why she was saying sorry to me to which she responded "I don't know", I asked why she did it and I just got another "I don't know".

I showed her one of the screenshots where she claims "my friends love how much of a cunt I am online" and I asked if any of her friends knew, and she said no, just me. I brought up the fact that I couldn't wrap my head around why someone would dedicate so much time to this, and she said "at first it was just a way to blow off steam, but then it felt nice because I saw people were agreeing with me, and it became apart of my daily routine I guess"

After some more talking, I addressed how much she hurt me with her attacks on people with mental health problems to which she just said "I doubt they even had any issues, they were just playing victim because they were losing the argument"

I have packed my things and going to stay at a friend's house, I am going to block Reddit on the ISP and asked her to not contact me for a couple of days while I think, I have also asked her to find a place to stay as I can't stay at my mate's for too long and I want to go on a break.

If I'm honest, I don't know if I will ever want to see her again, I was going to ask her to apologise to everyone she caused shit for but at this point I know she won't mean it.

Any further updates will be done via this post.

Relevant Comments:

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the fact that you felt the need to record this conversation on your phone makes me feel like this is not a healthy relationship regardless of the reddit trolling

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Judge people by how they treat those they can hurt with impunity. She's an online bully, cruel to people when she is anonymous and there are no consequences.

You're making the right decision.

:

My mother always said "I don't know is not an acceptable answer. You do know, you're just too ashamed to answer"

She gets off on other people's pain

Some people are just born that way homie

(again):

MAKE THE SEPARATION PERMANENT.

She CLEARLY isn’t sorry and doesn’t deserve ONE MORE SECOND of your time.

:

The recording thing is a sign that this relationship has been over for awhile. You’re either genuinely scared of her or trying to set her up. Just move on with your life.

Editor's Note: OOP says they will update. They've asked for a break from their SO, but have not officially broken up yet. Therefore, it is likely we'll hear back from OOP, so this is ongoing.

Reminder: I am not OOP. Do NOT comment on Original Posts. No Brigading! See rule 7.

This is a repost. I'm not the original poster. I don't need advice about this situation. The OOP is u/.supposedmisogynist. This was posted in .

CN: Mentions of homophobia

May 25, 2020

Throwaway account + obligatory mobile formatting apology.

I (52M) am the father of 3 kids, 15F, 7F, and 7M. The last two are twins and are very close, having the tendency to copy each other. I love and adore them all equally.

My son is not a very masculine kid, and is less interested in some of my hobbies because of this. He has always preferred whatever his mother and older sister did, like baking or dancing. I have no problem with this, I love him as he is, but to be honest, I’m slightly disappointed that we haven’t had the kind of amazing father-son bonding that I got to have with my Grandpa (my Dad died when I was pretty young) when I was a kid.

Since I’m at home almost all the time now, I’ve been seeing just how feminine his interests have gotten. Asking to help cook every meal, helping his older sister alter second-hand clothes, and playing pretend. He’s even asked to have his sister paint his nails. I’m not upset or bothered by it, but it isn’t typical for young boys.

I’ve been working out at home instead of at the gym because of our current circumstances, and when my son came in while I was lifting weights in the family room, he showed an interest in it. He was excited about the idea of having big muscles, and tried out some of the 5lb ones. Even though he mentioned being like She-Ra (from some new Netflix reboot, I think?), it was still progress in my eyes and it seemed like he was showing interest in masculine hobbies. I praised him and did the whole ”wow, you’re so strong!” thing in kid-talk to encourage him.

When his sisters walked in, the twin (7F) joined in. Like I said, they have the tendency to want to do what the other is doing so she expected the same kind of “wow, so strong!” stuff. When I wasn’t as enthusiastic with her and focused on my son, my oldest got annoyed and asked why I was treating them differently. I explained to her that because he hadn’t taken interest in these kinds of masculine hobbies before, I wanted to foster his own identity as a boy separate from his twin sister. She accused me of being misogynistic for this! She then said that I was TA for making his sister feel weaker and implying that I didn’t approve of his feminine interests. I don’t think I’m TA, because there’s no reason for my daughter to be inclined towards this kind of thing, but my son should be developing a more masculine personality as he gets older.

When she told my wife (41F), she also blew up at me, saying I was acting like a cartoon misogynist. Both of them are pissed. So, Reddit, AITA?

Notable Comments:

I’m slightly disappointed that we haven’t had the kind of amazing father-son bonding that I got to have with my Grandpa

• That's on you, OP. You meet your kids where they are. It's almost like your kids are each individual people with their own likes and dislikes! Wow, crazy! You build close relationships with love, compassion, and understanding. You are never going to get the closeness you want with your children until you accept and love them for who they are. If you keep wanting them to be different so that you can accept them, you will truly miss out. Your kids are amazing, unique, and beautiful human beings. Love them as they are. Stop with the expectations and give them unconditional love. This isn't about them. It's about you and your preconceived notions of who they should be. This will get you nowhere.

• YTA. My initial reaction was no, you just got excited you found a common interest with your son. But than you get to the last few lines of the post.... "because there’s no reason for my daughter to be inclined towards this kind of thing, but my son should be developing a more masculine personality as he gets older" The fact that she has "no reason" for an interest in lifting and that you think your son needs to have a more masculine identity is misogynistic and a little toxic. Plenty of professional chefs and designers are men. Your overall perception is the problem

• Fuck it. NAH. I completely understand you as a father wanting your son to be into stereotypically masculine hobbies. It strengthens your relationship with him, because you're into those things, and will help him have a better relationship with other boys. BUT there's no reason not to show your daughter the same enthusiasm, so that's my point of advice for you.

• NTA Obviously you should support your daughters as well, but there is nothing wrong with creating some space to bound with your son man to man as well.

• Nta. The guy had no father and wanted a relationship with his son.

Consensus: Asshole

Update 1

May 25, 2020, 5 hours later, added under the first posting

Hey everyone. I was 100% TA. I appreciate that some people tried to empathize and say NTA or NAH to be charitable, but I’m in the wrong here and I knew it deep down while I was writing the post. Re-reading it, I feel ridiculous for writing that all out. I want to say thank you, because these comments where the objective kick in the ass I really needed! I realize now that I was really out of line for saying that shit and making my daughters feel that way. I set up a stupid false dichotomy, and my daughter was very right, I was being a misogynist. No excuse for that. I apologized to both of them and my wife an hour after I posted. I also shared this post with my little brother, who, as I mentioned in a comment, was teased for being effeminate as a kid/teen, especially after he came out. I think some people took me mentioning that as blaming him, which wasn’t my intention at all- none of my behavior is his or anybody else’s fault.

We talked for a while and that (along with many of the comments you guys left!) made me aware of how badly I’m treating my son. My Grandpa, who raised my brother and I for most of our lives, was a “manly” guy who I’ve always idolized completely. Well, my brother made me aware that my Grandpa in particular made him feel shitty about his femininity and his sexual orientation. He would regularly say degrading, terrible things. I was oblivious to just how much that hurt him, and it seems that I’ve picked up some of these same ideas. I’ve been such a dick for so long, and now that I realize how absurd some of the ideas I’ve held onto are, I know how much of a disservice I’ve done to my boy. I shouldn’t try to make him change just to protect him from bullies. In this situation, I’m the bully as much as it hurts to think.

I’m planning on talking with him about this issue and apologizing. If we can this week, I want to let him choose something that he likes that we can do together. I’m not going to make the same mistakes my Grandpa did. At my brother’s and some redditors’ suggestions, I’m considering trying out therapy or a support group. After a mistake (huge fuck up) like this, I think I ought to try to be the best dad (and big brother!) I can be and work to stop thinking that way, especially when I’ve already done so much damage.

I’m sorry about the extremely long edit, but thank you for your responses and helping me with this issue. I showed my wife some comments and she also thanks you all!

Notable Comment:

• I am impressed as hell that you are self aware enough to know when you’ve fucked up and are working on self improvement. You, my anon internet friend, have restored my faith in humanity.

• On the off chance you see this (I know you’re swarmed! Lol) just know I think you have matured so well. Everyone needs a chance to grow, even in their middle ages ! That’s the fun of it. And for your son, who might like fixing up old clothes, maybe look into going to a sewing class at a craft store in your area! They’re super fun and informative. Just make sure he’s old enough for them! Congrats on having a super talented dude!

Update 2

May 25, 2020, 15 hours later, added under the first posting

This will probably be the final update, but wow! I’m overwhelmed will all the responses, I wasn’t expecting so many. Thank you to everyone, I’m glad you guys were honest (but still encouraging!). I’m sorry I haven’t been able to reply to you all. I got a lot of really kind and personal messages and I want you guys to know I’ve taken it to heart.

Some people asked what I’m going to do with my daughters, since it seems like I focused more on my son in the edit. My oldest wants to try Krav Maga, so in the coming weeks we’re hoping to find a place that’ll accommodate both ages. Youngest daughter has wanted to learn how to roller skate too, so my 15 year old may have to teach us both!

I was able to talk to my son for a while this morning and apologize for yesterday. Talking about gender roles and all the trauma surrounding my Grandpa may be something I’ll talk to him more about as he gets older, but I got the message across that I support whatever he’s interested in. I asked him about She-Ra (some commenters told me that it’s fun for adults too) and we watched a few episodes together. You guys were right! My oldest and I both thought it was very cute. I asked him what he would want to do together, and he mentioned trying to alter something. I brought down a box of my old stuff from the attic and lo and behold- I found one of the 80s Hawaiian shirts my grandpa bought me (probably an effort to make me look like Tom Selleck). With some guidance from my oldest, we’re going to try to make it fit my son with room for him to grow into it. I think it’ll turn out nicely, and because it’s “really vintage” my 15 year old loves it.

So everything is pretty good right now. I invited my brother over (lives a few hours away) for dinner so my son and I can make him something. I can’t believe that I was feeling upset about him liking baking and everything, I’m lucky that my boy wants to help everyone. So, I’m definitely TA, but I’m slowly becoming NTA! Thank you all. I showed my oldest some of my favorite comments and she thinks they’re great and I should expect a “clown of the year” award for a father’s day gift, haha!

Notable Comments:

• Reading all the edits, this is the sweetest post I have ever seen on reddit. You realized your mistake, apologized, and corrected your behaviour. You’re working on bettering yourself and have taken an interest in things for ALL of your children. You sir, may be one of the greatest fathers and have made me smile.

This is a repost. I'm not the original poster and do not need advice.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

2 updates - Short

- 18th December 2023

- 20th December 2023

- 16th June 2024

Am I wrong for getting upset at my husband over perfume?

My husband has a coworker he’s always talking about, a “work-wife”(we’ll call her Annie) sort of thing. I am not comfortable with it but he’s always been open with letting me see his phone and leaving the “find my” app available.

Yesterday he came home and asked me to buy a certain perfume for myself. I asked him why and he said that Annie always wears it and he really likes it. I told him no and I find it really offensive that he wants me to wear the same perfume as someone that he’s friends with and I feel like he probably has a crush on her. He says I’m overreacting and he just likes the way it smells and that it doesn’t mean anything.

Our friends are pretty split on who’s right.

Comments

SwordsOfSanghelios

Nah that’s weird, like that’s really, really weird.

jaelythe4781

Yeeeeaaaaaaa......that's a hard NO from me.

No two people will smell exactly the same, even wearing the same perfume. Body chemistry is funny that way.

Asking YOUR WIFE to wear a perfume you like on another woman you interact closely with is so out of line, it crosses into intentional stupidity. Who tf DOES that?!

JadeGrapes

Also, why the fuck didn't he just BUY some for his wife without telling her?

Dude is an idiot or playing mind games

Update - 2 days later

I decided to talk to him about and he got upset at me for bringing it up again. He decided to get on discord with some of his friends so he had a few drinks. He then admitted to me that he would sleep with her if he wasn’t married. He says that nothing happened between.

I don’t know if I believe him that nothing happened. I have a lot to think about. And for those who were wondering what the perfume was it was Lovespell.

Comments

tonidh69

Always trust your gut. Now you need to decide what you want. Do you want to save this marriage? Check out asoneafterinfidelity if you want to know how reconciliation is SUPPOSED to go. If not, get a great attorney. To at least know your options and what will be required.

OOP: I don’t know if I want to trust him again

tonidh69

Believe me, I get it. You can take all the time in the world to decide. You can change your mind. Just give yourself some grace. You are in charge.

OOP: I definitely need time

Update - 6 months later

So in the past six months our relationship has got worse. The whole Annie issue is over since she’s now sleeping with another coworker(he’s married !).

My husband has developed a terrible drinking habit, a spending problem and even legal issues that he says he would rather go to jail over than pay the fines.

So I will be moving in with my parents and I’m going back to college in the fall. I’m planning on becoming a nurse.

Comments

ZeroZipZilchNadaNone

Dang, girl! That went downhill fast. I hate that this is happening but at least you didn’t stay for years hoping it’ll get better. Maybe some day he’ll get his act together but you can’t do that for him.

Best wishes for your new journey. Nursing is definitely a calling. !UpdateMe about how you’re doing.

OOP: It felt like decades. But I do feel better knowing that I won’t be the one responsible for his emotions anymore. I’m not going to lie money and stability are factors which is why I chose nursing.

Oldgal_misspt

Congratulations for deciding to move on. If you haven’t already, please get with a lawyer to see if any of these debts are going to be your responsibility since you two are still married?

OOP: Working on it. Unfortunately at least some of the credit card debt will be on me even I wasn’t the one spending, luckily, the car he bought was in just his name.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My wife [25f] is cheating on me [27M] without cheating one me... Let me explain..

TRIGGER WARNING: emotional infidelity

  Jan 25, 2013

Sorry, this is long, but there is a lot of information.

My wife and I have been each other's closest (and often, only) friend for the longest time. Both of us are very shy and have a hard time making friends.

Recently, she made a friend at her job, who is a guy. She's had guy work friends before and it never really bothered me. But this one is different.

First, she started texting him a lot (A LOT) out of nowhere and I didn't know about it until I discovered she went over our texting limit, which she never ever got close to before. She hid it from me for fear of me getting jealous.

She is adamant about him just being a friend, and one that she needs. She goes to lunch with him and goes to get coffee. Once a week or so, they talk on the phone for a couple hours. They've also been sending pictures of themselves to each other (not racey ones or anything, just normal stuff).

They often text each other all day long (literally), even to the point that they have to say goodnight to each other.

Now, for the most part, she has been open about it all. Every now and then, I'll discover something she didn't tell me or catch her in a small lie (that she said she was doing to protect my feelings). But, still, for the most part, she isn't hiding it.

I'm fairly positive they aren't spending more time together than I think because there isn't any missing time in her schedule that I've seen. No time unexplained.

But I still feel like she is having an emotional affair. I've told her (in no uncertain terms) that this makes me uncomfortable, that I really don't like her having this level of friendship with another man. But, I also know that it's wrong for me to tell her she CAN'T have this friendship.

The problem is, he is also married, and their marriage is going through tough times. And HIS wife has told him not to text my wife anymore. So, they've started "texting" through Hanging With Friends, so she won't know. Which I think is disrespectful and wrong.

People at her work have been speculating that they are having an affair, to the point it spread to the whole store.

I've asked my wife, in one of the many fights/discussions we've had about this, if she would tell her mom what she was doing? She said no. I asked if she thought what she was doing against my wishes and his wife's wishes was okay? She said no.

But this is not enough to get her to stop. I'm not even asking her to drop him as a friend, just to treat him like a normal friend from work, no platonic dates or long chats or all day text marathons.

She has even told me that if the situation was reversed, she would hate it if I had a girl friend like this, but still, this is not enough for her to stop.

I cannot talk to anyone about it, because every friend or family member of mine is also close with her and I wouldn't want anyone thinking less of her or knowing we're having this issue.

So, I have to suffer in silence. I don't know what I should do. I'm trying to respect her and not be overbearing, but this whole thing just feels like it has gone way too far and I feel I am justified in hating this.

It feels good just to write this all out. Sorry I rambled and jumped around a bit. Just so much information.

Anyway, what do you think? Am I just being too sensitive/paranoid? Or am I right in being upset?

TL;DR My wife has a guy friend that she spends way too much time with and energy on, to the point that everyone at their work think they are having an affair. I've been clear that I am uncomfortable with this, but don't want to be controlling, so I let my feelings be known, but stop short of "putting my foot down." My wife hasn't backed off even a little bit, but she has been mostly open about everything (not really hiding it from me). Should I be worried? And if so, what should I do? I will not be leaving her and she knows that, so that threat is not an option.

UPDATE 1 (1/25 2:22pm MST) Thank you all so much for your comments and advice. It has all been very eye opening and helpful. I realize now that I am in denial and that, whether she realizes it or not, this is a problem that needs fixing. I left her a letter at home explaining my feelings and packed a small bag. I'm spending the night in the hotel and have asked to meet with her tomorrow to talk this thing out. I don't know if this is the right step to take first, but I feel like I need to wake her up to the fact that I am not going to be okay with this. I'm sure she'll try and call/find me tonight. Don't know if I'll answer when she does. Not sure what is going to happen, but whatever is going to happen, it happens now. I'll post a proper update soon. (Also, sorry for the confusion about the gender thing. I didn't even realize I listed myself as a female until someone directly asked me if I was a lesbian. That explains a few other slightly puzzling responses too. Haha. But yeah, I'm a guy.)

  Jan 26, 2013

Thank you all so much for your comments and advice. It has all been very eye opening and helpful.

I came to realize I was in denial and that, whether my wife realized it or not, this was a problem that needed fixing.

As I posted already yesterday, I left her a letter at home explaining my feelings and packed a small bag. I went to spend the night in the hotel and asked to meet with her tonight to talk this thing out.

In the letter, I posted about a dozen of the comments from your folks, just so she could see what other people think of our situation (I also included what I posted, so she would know I didn't exaggerate). Don't worry, I didn't include your handles, so she won't be coming after you.

When she got home and read the note, she called me. I didn't answer, but in her voicemail (in which she was bawling, which is very uncharacteristic of her), she begged me to come home and talk.

She said in the message that yesterday she was at lunch with the other guy and they both had already decided to end the friendship, because they both realized they were developing feelings for each other.

After a while, I decided to go home and talk with her.

We had quite a long conversation. She told me that the other day, he admitted to having feelings for her, but promised not to push. She told me that the day before yesterday, she realized she was developing feelings for him too, and it scared her.

She said she REALLY thought they were just friends, that she was refusing to believe it was becoming anything more, and then it just happened.

She told me that they didn't do anything physical yet, that it hadn't gotten that far, which is why they decided to end the friendship, because neither wanted to cross a line they can't uncross.

I'm choosing to believe her in that.

She told me that even though she was already backing out of the friendship with him, that the letter I left really opened her eyes at what she was doing to me and to us. It killed me to see her so broken and ashamed. I've never seen her like this before.

We both cryed for a long time, I said everything I had to say and asked the questions I needed to know the answers to. I believe she was honest with me, finally, about everything, including some things that were hard to hear. This went on for a couple hours.

Instead of staying at the hotel by myself, I invtied her to come with me. We went out to dinner, went to the hot tub at the hotel, and then had a wonderful night together.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking, but this isn't the end of it. We've got a lot of stuff to work through. We're talking about some counseling and it'll take me a while to fully trust her again.

I'm not just letting it slide like nothing happened. But I'm also not giving up on my marriage. I will not. I never will. Some of you may think that makes me a chump, but I don't care. This is the woman I pledged to spend the rest of my life with, and as long as I have a say in the matter, I don't intend on breaking that promise. For better or for worse, right?

Today, I also sent a text message to the other guy, telling him that my wife told me what was going on and that I wanted to make it clear that if I ever see even just a single non-work-related text from him on her phone again, that we will be having a different discussion and in person.

My wife and I have a long road ahead of us, but I'm positive we are both committed to getting things fixed between us and moving forward.

I really wanted to thank all of you (at least those of you who offered real advice) for yesterday. I needed to be woken up and I think it happened just in the nick of time. I feel like this dark cloud is finally starting to break up.

TL;DR I left my wife a letter expressing all my feelings and fears and left for the night. She called and begged me to come home. We talked for several painful hours, as she explained that, while nothing physical happened between her and her male friend, they both admitted that they were developing feelings for each other and decided it would be best to part ways. My wife and I are going to work on our relationship and move on from this. It's going to take some time for me to trust her again, but I'm not giving her up without a fight. Thank you Reddit for giving me the courage to stand up for myself. It may have just saved our marriage.

SECOND UPDATE 1/27 Hello again everyone. Thank you all (most of you, anyway) for your wonderful messages of encouragement! My wife and I have been having a lot of deep, emotional discussions over these last couple days. Having been with her for 12 years, I can honestly say that I've noticed a big change in her during these past couple months, but these past few days, she's finally back to her old self again. I can tell that she's sincere. Found out that the other guy and his wife and moving away soon, which makes me happy. My wife has felt so terrible, she is committing to being transparent, allowing me to be as "nosey" as I need to be, and to check up on her as much as I need to until I feel comfortable again. We are going to be starting up some counseling with our pastor soon, which I think is going to be a great help. It still hurts that it even got as far as it did. I've been cycling through anger, hurting, disappointment, and hope. I'm sure it will take a long while before those bad feelings go away. But we're going to be okay. I'm sure of it.

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My [24F] friends keep reassuring me that they'll be supportive of me when I come out... Only I'm straight

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: mentions of suicide thoughts, manipulation

  July 21, 2020

I want to start this off by saying my friends are wonderful people who are supportive and positive. We're a very diverse crowd and would probably be considered progressive by most people's standards.

There's eight of us in this social circle (including me), and between us half are POC, three are LGBT+, one is a sex worker and another became a parent at 15. I'd like to think we're open minded people who see personality first and nothing else and I love them all to shreds.

The problem I'm having now is that they're a bit too woke to the point that I'm now getting DMs from my friends who are sending me links to organisations like this for 'coming out' support. I literally have been in a straight relationship for 5 years now but I think they believe I'm bisexual.

Other examples of my friends trying to support me would be when one of my LGBT+ friends invited me to join their LGBT+ society at Uni (we go to the same one). I pointed out it's for LGBT only and not allies and they said "That's the point, they can help you!"

I have said multiple times that I'm straight, I love my partner and I've never been interested in anyone who isn't a cis-male before. When I politely remind them of this they keep quiet for a month or so but then it comes back up somehow.

Last Saturday I'd had enough, we had all been on a video call together and a joke was made about how "literally half of this damn group is gay!". Half of eight is four, there are three who are gay unless you count 'me'.

I just outright asked why everyone was under the impression I was gay. I was fed up of not knowing how this started and why they weren't listening to me. Everything went so quiet you could hear a pin drop.

Finally one of them said it was my body language, my mannerisms, how I talk to women, the way I dress etc. Apparently the vibe I give off is that of a woman who is gay but hasn't realised yet. Another friend then pointed out how in high school there was a rumour I had a girlfriend because a female friend of mine would sit on my knee and we would go to the bathroom together a lot, which I'd completely forgotten about.

It sucks because I see their point. I do dress in baggy men's clothes and shoes. I do dye my hair funky colours and wear Lynx/Axe spray. I do probably come across as flirty with women (completely unintentionally) by doing things like pulling out seats and holding doors open. I'm broadly built and many people over the years have said I  and  like a  I've even had women make a pass at me in gay clubs.

This would be great if I was gay but I'm not. I can tell it's only a matter of time before my partner becomes concerned but I'm not sure how to address this! My friends genuinely are lovely people and they aren't being pushy, I think they're just worried I have internalised homophobia and want me to be okay. My questions are:

• Should I make a conscious effort to make my appearance and behaviours more feminine and less stereotypically butch? And

• What's the best way I could sit my friends down and talk about this properly?

I would be heart broken if this affected my relationship with my SO. I love him to pieces and it was super hard trying to find a guy that didn't want me to be their lady-bro in the first place. I don't want to lose the person who could see past that and find it attractive. Please help!

edit - can I just say... Wow. You have all been so incredibly supportive of me and I want to say thank you. I was terrified of posting in case I came across like I was being sensitive and overreacting and that it was my fault for being who I am. I can't thank you guys enough

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Medical_Fisherman_52

Don't change who you are, unless you want to, especially if your SO accepts you as you are! Tell your friends firmly you're not gay and done with the hints. They can be who they want, but don't need to force it on you. It's almost like parents sending children to therapy to un-gay them. Won't work, doesn't help

OOP

I know their heart is in the right place, but it has left me concerned that one day they could do this to someone who is actually gay and it could freak them out because they aren't ready.

"Don't change who you are, unless you want to, especially if your SO accepts you as you are!"

Also, thank you for that, genuinely. I think he would be sad to see me change, but I think it must be crap for him being made to feel like the closet I'm hiding in. I'll have this discussion with him too.

~

jayaywing

Come out to them as a straight. And say that if they do this to anyone they will freak out for not being ready.

OOP

It has occured to me before that if I really were gay it would be unfair for me to come out due to pressure and not self-love and confidence

jayaywing

That's true. But i would be like "hey gyus i have something to tell... I'm straight and you are extremely rude and you will destroy someones life in this way" But you're happy in the way you are and that is the most important thing

OOP

It is true. I'm hoping after this talk I have with them they will come to their senses and not approach a circumstance like this again. Closeted people are closeted for a reason and usually it's a personal one, and should be treated as such!

  Aug 9, 2020

Original post can be found here.

First and foremost, thank you to everyone who reached out to me, I was blown away by how many others have gone through the same thing. There was some wonderful advice in there which I used going forward with my friends. So without further ado, here is the update.

Yesterday I managed to coax everyone into a group video call. I knew it would be awkward because one of my friends (B) came across my post on here and guessed it was me from the title and username (apparently having a unique situation and eating a toastie with a cup of tea for lunch everyday makes it obvious, oops). That friend promised that they would keep their discovery a secret and I believe they did based on the reaction I got from everyone on the video call.

Going back to my friend - upon finding my post B immediately sent a message where they apologised for not defending me when they should have. They came across a specific chain of comments where I talk about how forcing people to come out has negative consequences. These comments hurt to read because (unbeknownst to me) that happened to B's brother at the age of 14. He was too young and confused to deal with the heavy burden of being outed before he was ready, and as a result he was suicidal for years. A friend snooped on his phone and found MxM porn history, screenshot it and it all went downhill from there.

I could tell they were truly sorry so I accepted their apology without question (if you're reading this B, you're an amazing sibling to your brother and a brilliant friend to me, please don't be hard on yourself). All has since been forgotten with them.

Right - one down, six to go. So next I messaged the group chat and asked if we could have a video call because I had something to say... This is where it gets awkward.

When everyone's cameras came on I noticed that four of them had party poppers and two of those same four had pride flags - one even had one painted on their face... They thought I was 'finally' coming out.

I didn't entertain it for a second and told them all to calm down because they were wasting their excitement as it wasn't what they thought it was. I condensed my sentiments down in about five minutes - short, sweet, concise. Summed up, I said:

• I am straight. I do not have internalised homophobia, I really am just straight. I'm not bisexual nor a lesbian using my boyfriend to divert attention.

• By invalidating my sexuality/romantic leanings they invalidated my love for my partner which is unfair.

• Saying someone is non-binary, trans, agender, etc purely because of their interests, looks and taste in clothes is harmful because it (ironically) forces the narrative that women are only really women when they're feminine, soft and smell like roses (and vice versa for men).

• If I really were gay, the way they were going about supporting me was technically forceful and thus harmful. If someone isn't ready they aren't ready.

Once I blurted this all out at them I noticed that B (my friend who found my post) was crying, as was one other friend. Everyone else was completely speechless. I said I loved them all and that I'm still their friend but I was going to end the call because I felt it was best that I let everything sink in and that the rest was up to them.

Now, in my post it became apparent that many of you felt my friends weren't great friends but I'd like to think their reaction disproves this. There wasn't a single one of them that didn't profusely apologise, but it was the two who were pushing for me to 'come out' most that really went out of their way.

Let's call these two friends X and Y. X invited me to an afternoon tea in their back garden (allowed in my country) because it was sunny, and they said that it was just going to be our friend group. Naturally I said yes because I took this as a sign they wanted to talk. Turns out it was more.

They threw me a surprise 'coming out' party but as an ally. There were pride flags everywhere but they had written the word 'acceptance' on them. After many apologies and hugs there was food, booze, laughing and joking. We had a giant water fight with water-guns and water-balloons loaded up on drunken enthusiasm. When the sun went down and it got cold we bundled inside and watched She's The Man on DVD with mango sorbet, my effing favourite :) I love my friends - they gave me the acceptance I was looking for and I couldn't be happier.

TL;RD - everything is great; my friends, my relationship, my self-esteem... It's all good. We have a big happy friendship circle and everything pulled through with a big talk and a boozy water fight.

PS: I hope those of you reading this who are LGBT+ don't take offense to them throwing me the party because I understand genuinely being LGBT+ and coming out isn't easy and is definitely not a joke. The reason they threw this party, I believe, is because I had thrown both X and Y a coming out party. I see this as an "I accept you, and you accept me" sort of move.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Ludo1789

I’m so glad this turned out the way it did! It sounds like you do have good friends who had the best intentions in mind but unconsciously acted in a damaging way. (Bisexual woman here)

OOP

Thank you kindly, this is honestly the best way it could have gone! They really did have the best intentions, it just came out wrong. At least now they are aware it won't happen again!

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

My (38M) SAHW (40F) has been treating our Son (12M) poorly and favoring our Daughter (9F) ever since I complimented his cooking. How should I handle this?

Trigger Warnings: favoritism, golden child syndrome, emotional abuse and manipulation, verbal abuse, overdose, possible mental health issues

: April 8, 2024

My wife has always been the one to cook around the house, and as an Italian, it's one of the reasons I fell so hard for her. I've offered to help out in the kitchen or even cook for her sometimes, but she's always firmly, yet politely, told me no and I can't really blame her because I did NOT get either of my parents' good cooking genes. Because of this I've always been sure to thank her for every meal and I've taught my children to do the same.

For the past year or so my son has been watching a ton of cooking videos on youtube and tiktok and he's really been wanting to try his hand at cooking. My wife was happy to teach him and at least twice a week the two of them will go out to the store, buy ingredients for a meal he found on tiktok and come home and make it. It's been awesome seeing them bonding more, since they haven't really had much overlap in interests before this.

About a month ago after dinner, my son asked his mom if he could try making us all a meal on his own. I said it sounded like a great idea, and she hemmed and hawed for a little while before agreeing. So that Saturday she took him to the store to get his ingredients and then he got to work. She supervised here and there, but he insisted that she didn't need to so eventually she came to the living room and sat with my daughter and I looking a little bit dejected, so I reassured her that I was sure he'll still wanna cook with her, he just wanted to try it out on his own. That seemed to help out a little but she still seemed a little off.

When he finished and we all sat down to eat, I was honestly surprised at just how good he managed to do on his own. I feel bad saying it but even after a year or so of cooking with his mother, I expected him to mess up more than he did. I wanted to encourage this interest of his so I was sure to let him know while I was eating how good he did, and gently bring up the few mistakes he had made. I did it a lot more than I usually would with my wife's cooking, and in hindsight I can see that that's what started all of this.

His sister, being his little sister, was not as supportive as I was, and quite rudely insulted his cooking. I was going to tell her to mind her manners and be thankful that he cooked for us when my wife made a sound and pushed her plate away, before agreeing and saying that it was too salty and overcooked. This took me aback, and I could tell my son took it hard too, as his mood visibly dropped. I didn't say anything at the time, since my wife and I never argue in front of the kids, and I just kept up the praise of my son's cooking as his mother picked at the plate for a little while longer before she took her and our daughter's plates to the kitchen.

A little while later, I had went to check on my son, and I could tell that he had been crying, so I comforted him, told him I was sure his mother loved the food and that she was probably just having a bad day, not to take it personally. Then later, once the kids were asleep, I confronted her about it, and she tried to just brush it off, but I pushed and she got mad and said that I complimented his cooking far more than I ever complimented hers. This caught me off guard, since I didn't expect my wife to be jealous of our son, and I unfortunately let out an involuntary scoff at this. She blew up at me for laughing, and we ended up arguing for a while before eventually I managed to explain that I was complimenting him so much because I wanted to encourage him to keep cooking, and she even admitted that she shouldn't have been so harsh about it. She said she would apologize to him and I figured that everything was settled.

That Monday, when I was driving my son to school, I noticed he wasn't acting normal, and looking out the window, trying to hide his face from me. I asked him what was wrong, and he told me he was fine, but I could tell he was fighting back tears so I asked him again and he broke and told me that after I had left to get the car started, she told him that she was going to be cooking alone again from now on. I was furious about this, but kept my cool and told him I would talk to her about it, bought him a snack from the store before dropping him off at school.

I left work early so I could get home before the kids and talk to my wife. I'll admit I didn't handle it as well as I could have and we ended up in a shouting match where I was calling her childish for being so vindictive towards our son because she was upset with me, and she called him a baby and said he shouldn't be so sad about not being allowed to cook since it wasn't a man's job to do so anyway. We ended up leaving each other alone to cool down, and when our kids got home, my wife took our daughter out, and came back later with a load of toys and clothes for her.

I knew immediately what she was trying to do, and that night I told her that I would not let her use the money I make for our family to punish my son. She didn't take this well and we ended up arguing again. I slept in the guestroom, and have been up to this point. For this past month my wife has kept up this vindictive showering of our daughter with attention and gifts, while almost entirely ignoring my son. I've been talking to my parents and brother about this, and while they agree that she's wrong, they also don't see it as that big of a problem and think it'll sort itself out. At this point, with how she's been treating our son, I'm starting to fall out of love with her, but I also don't want to just jump to divorce if there's something that I can do to fix this whole situation.

I can honestly say that we've never had a fight this big. Sure, we bicker every now and then, but she's never taken that out on my son in the past. I feel responsible and guilty about what happened, and I've been trying to do nice things for my son, when I can, but I also don't want to mirror my wife's behavior so I've also been taking my daughter with us about half the time we go places, but whenever we do, she's been very rude and always talks about all the stuff her mother does for her lately, because she knows it bothers her brother.

Seeing the way my wife has been treating our son has made me second guess our marriage, but I don't want to just jump straight to divorce either. Any advice on what I should do, or how to best bring up the topic of therapy would be appreciated.

Relevant Comments

OOP on having conversations with his wife about their son’s feelings and OOP’s concerns on her behaviors

OOP: Thank you very much. I've tried talking with her about the whole situation multiple times, but she's very quick to dismiss me and my concerns, so hopefully using some of these ideas you've given me can help.

Quite frankly the whole "Cooking is a woman's job" thing really blew my mind, since she's never said anything like that before, and even used to fight with her mother about those kinds of comments when MIL would make them about our daughter and nieces. I'm unsure if she genuinely feels that way, or was just pulling stuff out of the air in the heat of the moment.

OOP on taking other routes before deciding on the divorce

OOP: I want to at least give Counseling a fair shot before I pull that trigger. This has legitimately been the first time she's ever shown this kind of attitude so I want to give her a chance to see the err of he ways. That being said, if she's unwilling to even try counselling then yes, my next step will be filing for divorce.

OOP on having his son staying somewhere else instead of his wife

OOP: I understand this, and I've already weighed the pros and cons. Letting him stay at someone else's house isn't going to do much good in this situation. He's not going to suddenly forget the way that his mother has been acting to him because he's under a different roof. I don't think that removing him from his home and his room where all of his belongings are is worth the possible benefits, especially when it could seem to him like I'm just removing him from the house so that things will be easier going around here.

It's also not like he's stuck in the house 24/7. He's a very social kid, and he's been spending a lot of time hanging out with friends/sleeping over. He's had time away from his mother, and he has not seemed hesitant to come home at all.

OOP’s thoughts on if his wife resents their son so much after his love for cooking started

OOP: That's what's really been sticking with me the most. I don't understand why she's been acting this way. She's always had a very strong maternal instinct, didn't go through PPD with either of our children, which was surprising to me because both of our mothers went through it with all of their children, not that it's genetic or anything, but I was just expecting it from experience. I hate to sound misogynistic but I've considered that it could be the beginnings of Menopause, even though she's still young.

The biggest thing that's been on my mind is if it's something I did. I added the little spiel at the beginning about always complimenting her because it's something I've been thinking about nonstop. I never pressured her into being a SAHM, we fully planned on having her go back to work after my son was born, but she changed her mind almost immediately after she gave birth. I do my fair share of the chores around the house, I always wash the dishes, take care of the lawn, we both clean up around the house. I never hold it against her that she doesn't work, or withhold money from her. I felt awful after I said to her that she's using MY money to punish our son because It just felt like I was being unfair. I'd almost prefer if it WAS something i did, so that I could just blame it on myself instead of having to accept that my wife is capable of doing this kind of thing on her own.

: June 13, 2024

Obligatory, but genuine, Thank you for all of the support, even the comments that got a bit nasty. That kind of pushback helped me to see that things were a lot worse than I realized. Some of you could do with being a bit nicer, but the advice is appreciated all the same.

Short recap: My Wife and Son cooked dinner together most nights for about a year. My son wanted to try cooking dinner on his own, which my wife accepted, but started acting funny. She ended up rudely criticizing his meal, then the next day she told him that she would do the cooking on her own from then on, and after I confronted her about this, she started neglecting/emotionally abusing him while shoveling positivity onto our daughter.

The first thing I did after making my previous post was take my son to my parents' house to tell them what was happening from his mouth. I figured they may be more receptive to seeing the pain their grandson was going through and not just write it off like they had with me. They ended up understanding, and supportive of my next move, which was kicking my wife out till she worked through whatever problem she was going through.

Next I went to a lawyer and consulted with him. He told me it would be best to have the papers ready to go, even if I wasn't sure I wanted the divorce yet because it's better to get it done as quick as possible if I decided to go through with it because in Canada you have to either have to separate for a year, or prove abuse or adultery.

I took the kids to my folks' house the next Saturday and came back with my mother. I let her talk with my wife first, then when they were done I told her that I needed her to leave the house until she sorted out whatever was causing her to act this way to our son. She, surprisingly, agreed to this. I'm guessing hearing things from my mother knocked some sense into her, as they were always quite close. I told her that my parents were willing to let her stay there during the time because her parents lived too far away, or I could put her up in a nearby motel. I would also pay for her to see a therapist every week, which I told her was mandatory for fixing things.

Our kids spent the night with my parents and we moved her out the next day, We both sat with the kids and told them what was happening. Our son understood, but our daughter didn't and was quite upset, but eventually we calmed her down. Things went well for the first month or so. She went to all of the weekly appointments, and I met her for dinner a few nights a week with the kids and she seemed to be treating our son properly again. I was really hopeful that she had been making progress.

Then the Friday after her fifth therapy appointment she sent me a wall of text messages about how I was an asshole, and I was trying to steal her children from her, and how I was probably fucking someone on the side. I tried calling her to see what she was talking about but I think she shut her phone off. I called my mother and she told me that my wife had left the house earlier that day with all of her stuff without saying anything to my mom.

I'm not 100% sure what happened next, since my wife has refuses to tell me most details, and I can't get in contact with the friends she was with. The best I can piece together was that she had told her best friend about what was happening, and that friend started telling her all about how I was just trying to kick her out and steal her kids. She then moved in with her friend, and went on a week long bender of clubbing and drinking and drugs. When we were younger we did our fair share of stupid shit together, so while this was surprising, it was most likely her dumbass friends convincing her to relive the good old days.

I hadn't heard anything for about a week, then I got a text from her friend, telling me I was a loser, that my wife was too good for me, and that she was fucking a younger guy. I tried to demand she give my wife the phone so I could talk with her, but I never got a reply. I screenshotted the texts for evidence if I needed it.

I ended up getting a call from the hospital at like 3 in the morning that sunday. My wife had overdosed on something, and was dropped off at the ER by someone who didn't stick around. Since I was her emergency contact, They reached out to me. I called my mom to come watch the kids and headed over there. They managed to get her stabilized, and were treating her. I stuck around for a few hours and she was in and out of consciousness, and when she was she wasn't very talkative. When she properly woke up, she started apologizing for everything, and that's when I found out the few details I know, about her friend and the bender. I asked her if she had been fucking someone else like her friend said, and she didn't reply, which was as much of an answer as I needed. She kept trying to apologize and I just kept my cool and told her this wasn't the time or place for this.

We ended up leaving at about 8 AM the next day. I got her back to my parent's place, got her into bed, and just before I left, I put the papers on the table beside the bed and told her that I expected her to sign them within a week and that I had proof she cheated on me during her bender. I had told my parents I was planning on doing this on the phone, so I wasn't just dumping this drama on them without warning. The kids are both doing fine. They don't know anything of what happened with their mother or the divorce, all they know is that my wife is still moved out, and that she's busy getting better so we're not gonna be seeing her as much. I'll probably tell them in a couple weeks whenever school lets out for the summer so it doesn't affect their learning.

Over the next couple weeks I've gotten countless calls from her, ranging from begging for a second chance, to screaming at me that she hated me and was going to make my life hell, going back and forth every other day. I've also been getting vitriolic texts from her family and friends calling my all sorts of names and threatening me that if I don't drop the divorce I'll regret it, All of which have been screenshotted. My parents agree that divorce is for the best, but they're questioning my timing, and wondering if I shouldn't have picked a better time to do this than when she was fresh out of the hospital.

I'm 100% sure I want her out of my life, and I plan on going for full custody of my children as I don't want them around my wife if this behavior is what she's willing to stoop to. And while I do want it done as soon as possible, I'm wondering if I should take back the papers and tell her I've changed my mind, at least until she's a bit more stable?

ETA: I saw comments suggesting I take my kids to therapy to explain the situation to them. I have a session set up with a therapist in a week, just wanted to wait a tiny bit longer for their school to be as finished as possible. I forgot to include it when I first typed everything out.

Relevant Comments

misterk2020: Absolutely do not take back the papers. Your marriage is over and she killed it. She needs to take accountability for what she did and you are trying to ket her off the hook. IMO I would advise your lawyer what’s going on and listen and follow the advice given. You should be filing for full custody IMO. You can always loosen restrictions later.

OOP: Yeah, after I served her the papers I got in contact with him again and have been telling him everything that has been happening. He has every text screenshot I've collected so far and I'm filling him in on any updates. I appreciate the advice still

tropicsandcaffeine: Be careful of her family contacting your kids. They may try to poison their minds against you.

OOP: Neither of my children have accounts on messaging apps. My son has an old phone of mine that isn't acitvated. It's just a tiktok machine at this point, and my daughter only has access to a tablet for an hour or two after school, and similarly has no messaging apps on it. The only way they'd be able to contact them is by coming here, or stopping by the school, but I've also contacted the school admins and let them know that I'm to be the only ones picking them up. When their mom first left the house I had to enroll them in a before and after school program as I can't come pick them up right when school is let out, and the ladies that run it have been made aware as well. I'm doing everything I can think of to protect my kids.

OOP on speaking with his lawyer about the possibility of having temporary/emergency order to keep his children safe from their mother

OOP: I brought it up to my lawyer, and I'm still considering it, but he said it's not likely to be granted, and we don't have anything to prove she's a threat to the children. Her threats of making my life hell were never recorded so I can't prove she said it, and she hasn't said it since I started recording, plus it's been her friends and we can't put that on her without proof she's telling them to do it.

I've taken the precautions I need to. I've contacted the school and told them that I'm the only one allowed to pull them out of class, no matter what. Also the before and after school program I put them in when I removed my wife from our home has been told that I'm the only one that's allowed to pick them up.

Trust me, if I get her on tape threatening me, I will push for a protective order.

OOP responds to the question if his wife’s parents are aware of the situation

OOP: Well, her parents have actually been relatively civil about it. They obviously were upset when they first heard but I explained it to them and they understand. They've been checking in on the kids and have asked if they need anything. It's really the rest of her family doing it, and I just don't have the energy to argue with that many people so I've just been blocking them after getting my screenshots.

OOP was asked if his children are not likely to be his and the possibility that his wife has cheated on him

OOP: The kids are definitely mine. Both of them at 2 years old looked exactly like I do in pictures of me at that age. I have no question about that. And I have gotten and STI check and I'm clean. I don't suspect this cheating was a long time thing. She's acting too ashamed of it for it to have been something she's been doing for years. I think she was just drunk and high, and gave in to her moronic friend's idea to get back at me for kicking her out.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

Edit: was expecting Anakin but ok.

**I am NOT OP. The OP of this story is .**

Mood Spoilers: It works out in the end.

, Posted April 30th, 2024.

This happened over the weekend but there’s still so much tension.

One of my good friends, Matthew (26M) is getting married next month to Jennifer (26F). I (25F) have known Matthew since high school. We’ve both connected when it came to video games, especially Minecraft. Matthew has had his fair share of girlfriends over the years but when he met Jennifer 3 years ago, he said that he knew she was the one and they are madly in love with each other and I am so happy for them both.

Last year, Matthew popped the question to Jennifer and she said yes. Jennifer’s demeanor towards me drastically changed after the engagement. She was distant towards me, she wouldn’t look at me and she would hardly speak to me which was weird since Jennifer was always so sweet and nice towards me.

I’d still talk to Matthew and meet with him and our group of friends, sometimes with Jennifer and she would still act cold and not speak to me much. I kept my distance from Jennifer. Three months ago, we all received a save the date invitation and their wedding is going to take place at Matthew’s cabin 2 hours away and they were going to keep it small due to the size of the cabin so we were only allowed to bring one guest. That was when Jennifer acted extremely harsh and hostile towards me and said “bet you don’t have a plus one since you are so into my man.” I was taken aback. I asked her what the fuck she was talking about and she smirked and said I knew and to not act stupid. I ignored her remark and told her my boyfriend was coming. She looked surprised and left. I of course told Matthew about what Jennifer said to me and he was not happy, so he made her apologize to me.

Then, last weekend, I was invited by matthew’s sister to go dress shopping with her and Jennifer. I declined at first because I wanted to keep my distance from Jennifer but Matthew’s sister assured me that she will deal with Jennifer and that our other friends will be there with us. So we go dress shopping and I found a beautiful dress that I thought would be perfect and I took a picture to send to my boyfriend since he planned on matching (I.e with a bow tie) with me. I tried the dress on and it was a perfect fit so I guess I got lucky. Jennifer was angry, called me names such as a whore, a boyfriend stealing bitch, and that I was officially uninvited to the wedding. She caused such a commotion, the employee of the store asked us to leave.

I told Jennifer I didn’t want to come to the wedding anyway but I was going to because MY FRIEND was getting married. I told her if she didn’t want me at the wedding, fine. I don’t give a fuck since I won’t go to a wedding if the bride is going to be so rude to a guest.

Matthew and our friends found out and I was getting texts left and right begging me to just come to the wedding. I told them I was happy to get uninvited and I’ll just spend the day with my boyfriend on the day of the wedding instead. They’re all mad at me for not fighting hard enough.

AITA?

Edit: so my decision is final. I will not be going to the wedding and there’s no changing my mind about it. I will be sending a wedding gift to Matthew the day prior to the wedding instead. I told Matthew and all my friends that I won’t be going and they can’t convince me otherwise. Matthew also called me and asked if we can talk somewhere. I agreed but it’s to tell him in person that I won’t go so that way he knows I’m serious about that.

Update: I met up with Matthew and brought my boyfriend along. Of course, he begged me to come to the wedding and he said he would beg Jennifer to let me attend. I told him it’s best if I wasn’t there. I told Matthew that Jennifer has a problem with me. Period. He said he doesn’t understand and he did ask her many times but Jennifer would continue to say she was just “stressed”. I got angry and said that’s bullshit and he knows that. My boyfriend also intervened and said to Matthew that he needs to wake up and realize Jennifer is crazy and he can’t keep defending her. Matthew said he loves her too much and doesn’t want to lose her. My boyfriend and I got up and told Matthew to let us know when he has a backbone. In the meantime, it’s best we don’t talk. I messaged all of our friends in the group to let them know I’m keeping a distance from Matthew because of Jennifer. He’s still my friend but at an arms length. I will still be sending him a gift regardless but I’m keeping my distance from Matthew. It seems like he is in denial and can’t comprehend what’s going on at all. He usually is in denial, ever since high school he would have a sense of denial.

Another thing to mention is that Jennifer is nice to all of Matthew’s female friends. Just not with me. I’ve also gotten a message from two of our friends saying they have dropped out of attending the wedding because of Jennifer and that they are on my side.

Edit 2: Jennifer already bought her wedding dress a while ago. When I went dress shopping with Matthew’s sister, she invited Jennifer as a way to resolve this animosity she had towards me. So it was Matthew’s sister who wanted to buy a dress and I found a dress that I loved and Jennifer went crazy. Hope that clears things up since so many were confused.

, Posted June 12th, 2024.

I will be posting an update here because frankly, I do not have the time to edit or shorten up the post. I exceeded character limit and there was a whole lot going on that I did not want to leave out. So I will be copying the post here.

Hello to all. A lot of you have been asking me for an update so I might as well make one. Before I do that, I want to clear up a couple things that a lot of people have been confused about.

1. When I went dress shopping with Matthew’s sister, she brought Jennifer along because she wanted us to put our differences aside for Matthew’s sake. This shopping trip was not for Jennifer to buy a wedding dress as she had already purchased her dress a long time ago. I hope that clears things up. I would never try on a dress or purchase one if the bride is the one who is shopping for a dress. That’s an obvious rule lol.

2. Matthew and I never had romantic feelings for each other, we never hooked up or anything of that nature. Our relationship has always been and always will be platonic.

I’m gonna go straight to the point with this update. This is going to come out as a shock to a lot of you but Jennifer called off the wedding. I found out from our friends who messaged me. I asked what happened and they explained that Jennifer told Matthew she couldn’t marry him and admitted that her behavior towards me as well as towards a couple of other people which includes Matthew’s sister and his best friend Jacob. She apologized to Matthew and realized that she isn’t in the right place to get married. This happened about two days before the wedding.

I decide to call Matthew and I told him I heard about the wedding being called off and assured him I’ll be here if he ever wants to talk. He asked if we could meet and I agreed. Matthew explained that Jennifer had severe trust issues not just regarding me, but with his best friend Jacob. Jacob was suppose to be Matthew’s best man but he was also uninvited by Jennifer over the fact that Jacob might encourage Matthew to cheat. Matthew also told me that Jennifer has constantly accused Matthew of possibly cheating on her with me despite showing her evidence that we did nothing of the sort. It had gotten to the point where Jennifer would prevent Matthew from going out with friends, she would sometimes confiscate his phone, and she has even taken his car keys, causing him to be late for work. So there was a lot more happening behind closed doors. Matthew wasn’t blinded by love, he was simply afraid to reach out to any of us for help. He was embarrassed to tell us his bride to be was doing more than just controlling the wedding guest list.

I asked Matthew if he wanted to go with us on vacation but he declined stating he wants to be alone which I do understand. I go on vacation and I had a fun time. Btw I did wear the dress that I bought and wore that to dinner with my boyfriend. He loved the dress and had constantly complimented me the entire time.

When we returned, Jennifer messaged me which I was surprised by as she never once did such a thing. She asked me if we could meet. At first, I wasn’t sure but I agreed. I brought my boyfriend along for safety reasons as I wasn’t sure what Jennifer’s intentions were with me. Jennifer told me that she wants to apologize for lashing out at me at the store, for calling me names and for uninviting me to the wedding over something so small. She explained that she allowed her jealousy to get the better of her and she was so scared of losing Matthew that she ended up doing things that she deeply regrets. Jennifer is going to get therapy and said that she had some trauma in her childhood that lingered into her relationship in ways she didn’t expect. She also admitted that she was insecure and found me to be a very beautiful woman and she was a bit jealous when Matthew and I talk about our hobbies and that made her feel left out because she isn’t into Minecraft or gaming. I told her none of those things matter to me now since she has apologized and admitted what she did wasn’t right and that I have forgiven her.

As for Matthew and I’s friendship, we are now back to hanging out and playing games together. Even my boyfriend has been hanging out with Matthew a lot and have gotten closer. I did decide to ask Matthew if he ever did have a crush on me back in the day and he said he never did and that he was being honest.

Jennifer moved her stuff out and as for the cabin where the wedding was suppose to take place, Matthew, my boyfriend, myself, and a couple of our other friends will go there this upcoming weekend.

I apologize for taking too long. I think posting it on my personal profile rather than on the subreddit is better since I broke the character limit. I’m quite busy and I know everyone was dying for an update :)

I also like to thank everybody who has given me advice on how to handle this situation and my friendship with Matthew. I also had the chance to read some personal stories some of you have sent me and it breaks my heart. I realized I have such a big support group here and that’s one thing I love about Reddit!

**Reminder - I am not OP.**

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . He posted in and .

Thanks to for the rec!

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. The latest update is 7 days old due to the rules of this sub.

Mood Spoiler: sweet

Original : June 12, 2024

My wife and I (early 40s) have been together for more than 15 years (married for 12 years). We met online because of shared interests. We were in different cities, and we used to message each other and talk on phone. Things became flirty and we would send a lot of spicy selfies (almost daily) to each other. It was just our love language and we had not even met each other in person at this point. It was clear to us that we are meant to be together and she moved to my city after a year. We dated, got engaged after an year, and married after that. It was the best decision and we are both happily married with 3 kids.

I have an external HDD where I save all my old movies, photos, documents, etc. I saved all the sexy pics she sent to me on that HDD too. I was backing it up on Sunday and I thought it would be fun to show my wife all the photos she had sent me to during our dating phase. My wife saw those pictures and asked me why I saved them. I told her that it's just a memory and I sometimes go through them to remember our dating phase. My wife asked me if I found her sexy in those pictures, and I said yes. She was a bit upset by my answer. We moved on from the topic, but I could see she her mood was a bit off during the day.

At night, I asked her if it bothered her that I saved those pictures of her without her permission. She said no, and those were meant for me and its flattering that I saved them and find them hot. She asked me if I liked how she looked in the picture or how she looks now. My wife used to be small and petite when we started dating. However, she has given birth to three kids and of course does not look the same anymore. She has also gained around 20 pounds during the pandemic, which bothers her too. I tried to be politically correct and told her that the 25-year-old me liked the girl in the picture, but the 40-year-old me likes her as she is now. She told me seeing those pictures made her feel very insecure and jealous and she does not like the fact that I still look at those pictures. I found it hilarious that she is jealous of her past self.

She asked me that since I have her for the rest of my life, would it be ok for me to stop looking at those pictures now and delete them. I feel those are amazing memories from our early dating days and I want to keep them. However, she feels the girl in those pictures looks so much different than her now. She feels insecure about her body and me looking at those pictures makes her feel bad.

I am in a dilemma. I want to respect her request, but I also do not want to lose the memories from one of the best times in my life. Would I be an AH if I do not delete these pictures of her? Is her insecurity about herself valid in this case, and if any other married women have gone through similar situation?

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: You did the right thing. But if you like the photos so much, it's hard for you to give them up. They're memories. Maybe it'll be downvoted, but if she's insecure about the comparison, maybe it's better to make an effort to improve the present rather than having to erase the past.

OOP: I feel she looks beautiful and does not really need to improve. She just looks 15 years older.

I think she just saw herself in those pictures and got sad that she is not that person anymore. I feel she eventually realize how silly it is that she is insecure of herself. I just don't want to delete the pics now, and then regret it later when she changes her mind.

Commenter (downvoted): Nutso. Your wife is desperately insecure.

OOP: I would not call her desperately insecure. I can understand her feeling bad for me lusting over her pictures from 15 years ago. She is absolutely beautiful even now but maybe she feels bad she is not the same person from 15 years ago, when I have not changed much.

Update : June 13, 2024 (Next Day)

I wrote a about my wife wanting me to delete her sexy photos that she sent me during our dating period. I wanted to thank everyone for so many mature and nice suggestions. I know my life is not as scandalous as many people who post on this forum but wanted to give an update on what happened.

We put our kids to bed last night and I was sitting in the bedroom. My wife came to me and started cuddling. She asked me if I deleted the photos. I told her I have not, and I am really attached to the memories of our early dating days, and it reminds me how far we have come. I told her that I understand that we both do not look the same as 15 years ago, but my love and attraction to her has only grown since then. When we started dating, she was this hot girl online that who I had so much in common with. But, after 12 years of marriage, I still see her the same, but more. Now, that hot girl is my family and she made three gorgeous mini versions of me (2 boys and a girl). I also told her that I look at those photos because they remind me of time when our relationship was so new and how crazy we were.

I asked her if I did or say anything to make her feel bad about herself, based on how she reacted. As many of you guessed, she said that it was not about what I did. She just remembered how she looked in those photos and felt bad about herself. She started saying things like I have let myself go and I wish I could be more disciplined, etc. I told her that I am still very attracted to her and try to initiate whenever we are alone. She agreed and thanked me to for getting snipped, else we would have a lot more kids running around. However, she told me that I used to stare at her every time she would change in front of me or was in shower. Now I barely notice her even if she is standing butt naked in front of me. She said that it makes her feel insecure about her body when I do that. I know she is right, but after 15 years together, you kind of get used each other's bodies, so I feel it is normal for that to happen. I told her it would be hot and adventurous for her to send me sexy photos now too, but she said there is no way she would feel comfortable taking pics like that now. Overall, I loved our conversation, and I am glad she talked about her insecurities to me.

Finally, we started talking about the photos. She asked me if I pleasure myself looking at them and I told them I have in the past especially when the kids were small. She found that funny and cute. She said that I had the entire internet to find porn and its cute that I still looked at her pictures. She said I should keep the photos. She asked me to just create two folders for her pictures (SFW and NSFW). She said that I can keep the NSFW folder hidden so the kids don't find it. For SFW pics, she wants me to upload them to our iCloud as she wants to show those pics to our daughter. But she said that she is glad I did not delete the photos.

Thanks again for everyone who commented. A lot of comments were really cute, and I got a nice perspective of what my wife was thinking.

Top Comment:

Commenter: And this, my friends, is how adults handle issues in a marriage. Well done, OP.

I am not The OOP, OOP is

WIBTA for doing a paternity test behind my family's back?

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, incest

  Oct 10, 2023

Throwaway account because I don't want anyone to see this on my main.

I (26F) have reason to suspect that my dad(48M) isn't my biological father. I look nothing like my 3 siblings and during an argument with my mom a few years ago, I overheard him mention that he didnt believe I was his. Later on during an argument between the two of us he also said that he didn't even think I was his kid. He immediately back peddled and said he was just angry and didn't mean it, but it haunts me. It's been 2 years and it just lingers in the back of my mind. I mentioned doing a paternity test but he said no he wouldn't agree to it because I was his and he didn't want to. He refused to talk about it after that.

I mentioned taking a paternity to my sister(24F) and she was adamant that it was a bad idea. She said it would only start arguments and that our mother would have never cheated on him. She is the spitting image of my dad, as is our younger brother and the youngest sibling we have looks like a combination of my mom and dad.

I told her I wouldn't do it, however I still planned to. I was trying to figure out how I was going to get a sample from either a sibling or my dad, but  my fiance (26M) told me that I would be a huge asshole for saying I wouldn't and then doing it anyways. I argued that none of them understood what it felt like and neither did he. It blew up and he insists that all I'm doing is being dramatic and trying to hurt everyone. We went to bed angry last night, and now I'm worried that I am going to cause unnecessary drama, especially if it comes back he is my bio dad and they find out I did the test.

So would I be the asshole for not telling any of them? I know they're never going to agree to it, so I feel like it's my only option.

ETA: I realized I never mentioned how I planned to get a sample. My youngest brother is very very close to me, and I haven't asked but I believe if I do he'd be willing to give me a sample to see if we are full siblings. I was discussing that with my fiance when he said I'd be a huge asshole for going behind everyone else's back.

I did not make that very clear in the post, sorry about that.

VERDICT: NOT THE ASSHOLE

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM OOP

I didn't want to mention everything in the post that truly leads me to believe he might not be. And I didn't want to say the biggest reason for needing to know because it scares me the most, but I think this comment makes me think I may have to say it.

He told me who he thinks my real bio dad is before he decided to back peddle on it. They were family friends of ours when I was younger and as an adult I had a brief relationship with one of the sons. We dated for a while and the idea that I may have been physical with a half sibling absolutely haunts me. He knew about the relationship and voiced his opinion when we were together that he didn't like it (we fought about it back then but he never brought up why).

My relationship with my parents hasn't been good for a while. We don't speak much anymore, but you're right about my siblings and fiance. I don't want to ruin my relationship with them. I don't want them to think differently of me.

My siblings don't know about the identity of the other guy being my bio dad, but my fiance does. He has done nothing but help me get through that awful initial phase of that.

June 10, 2024

Update: Did a 23 and me and got results.

So from my last post many people suggested doing a 23 and me. I found a lot od relatives on my moms side and unfortunately found that my father is in fact not my bio dad. This is information I have kept to myself and I do not wish to share it with anyone else in my family.

I know many of you wanted to know why my fiance was so against it and why he called me an asshole for it. He told me he was only concerned for mt mental health (I was doing very poorly) and he didn't want me to risk my relationship with my siblings. In the end he told me he would support me, but insisted I at least start therapy first. I did and he has been incredibly supportive. We're married now btw!

The man who's my bio dad will never be able to contact me. He was already blocked on any social media I had, but even if he tried I wouldn't respond as I do not trust him.

In the end this has given me a strange peace of mind. I don't sit up at night and worry over it.  My therapist is helping me grapple with the terms of it as well as help me through the disgust I feel with myself over the relationship I had with who I now know was my half sibling. I can't tell him as he passed away a couple years ago in a car accident.

My relationship with my parents was severed before I ever did the test. I havent spoken to either in over a year now and I am happier than I ever have been. My in laws are great to me and a man I've known for a few years has stepped in and walked me down the aisle. I'm surrounded by people I love, and it's amazing.

I really appreciate everyone's support from my original post. Many of you helped me with good suggestions and no one judged me over the relationship I had had, so I cant thank you all enough. I wish you all safe and happy travels.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Ambitious_Estimate41

Im glad you are at ease now. But I’m curious, did this topic make you cut ties with your parents or was it something else? Good to hear you have good inlaws

OOP

It was definitely one of the things that pushed it. The last straw was him coming to my house to bring my brother how and he had been drinking. He completely ignored me in my own home, and my mom stood there and cried and called me selfish for being mad at him because "it stresses her out". That was the moment that put me over the edge.

The reality is it was 26 years of hell before I stopped talking to them. I posted the a few months after I went NC. Learning the truth wasn't easy. I cried for 2 weeks pretty consistently and struggled with identity issues. My therapist helped me through it, though, and now I am where I am now nearly a year later.

~

ZingiestCobra

You mentioned in your previous post you had an idea about who your bio dad was but then didn't mention why he is already blocked on everything. Sounds like there may have been more people in the know and all the "adults" failed you.

Hope you are doing better!

OOP

I blocked him myself. He was someone I didn't want in my life before all of this came to light and I don't want him reaching out if he finds out I know. His ex wife is who my dad cheated on my mom with, so they're all messed up.

~

Fiesty_Extent_9140

i’m sorry for the confusion you are dealing with. i genuinely cannot believe your mother sat by and watched you date your half-sibling (assuming she knew or had any suspicions). that must be a really difficult thing to unpack, and you really don’t deserve any of this

OOP

I never understood why my dad was so angry about it. He didn't tell me what the problem was. We were like 19 and we found we werent compatible romantically after a few months but stayed friends up until he passed. I feel like telling me when we first started dating before anything turned physical would have been the best solution to all of that.

At the end of it I understand not wanting to tell me, but that doesn't make it acceptable. Especially knowing what I went through.

Fiesty_Extent_9140

oh wow, so parents knew. that really blows. does your sibling know?

OOP

None of my siblings know. The half sibling I had a relationship with passed in a car accident a couple years ago. My other siblings I grew up with have no idea and I won't tell them. Their relationship with our parents is better than mine and I'm not out to destroy their lives. I simply want my own peace and I feel like I'm on the path to finally achieve that.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

....I AM NOT THE ORIGINAL POSTER....

Posted on  by 

TRIGGER WARNINGS: Theft, Framing of theft

..........................................................................................................................................................................

 Posted on 22 September, 2023

Throwaway because my brother is a redditor I am 23 and male. I am the middle child of my parents, 54 male and 53 female, and I have an older sister, 25, and a younger brother, 19.

I've been living away from my family for 5 years with the very bare minimum of contact because right around when I turned 15, my dad's stuff started disappearing from his room. He has a pocket knife collection filled with different knives that he has collected from across the US, and some of them are pretty decently valuable (not worth like several grand or anything but some of these probably fetch for a few hundred). He also has a collection of baseball cards and autographed baseballs. These items would vanish from his room and end up in my room and each time I got punished for it, and each time was more severe than the last. I was looked at by my entire immediate family as a thief for 3 years even though I constantly pleaded my innocence to them. I missed out on a few vacations, didn't have a 17th birthday celebration at all, didn't get my driver's license or a car until after I moved out, and I didn't have a job and had no way to save money aside from past birthdays and odd chores around my neighborhood. I remember my dad and mom telling me how much of a disappointment I was and that they wouldn't be surprised if I ended up in the local news as a robbery suspect or worse. My extended family wasn't much help either and saw me in the same light. It got so bad to the point where I genuinely wondered if I was actually stealing and not remembering it at all, either through some kind of mental struggle or doing it in my sleep or anything.

Earlier this week, I got a call from my mom. My dad had noticed that his things started disappearing again without me being there and finally had the bright idea to set up cameras in the hall, where my brother was caught taking stuff and putting them in my sister's old room. Mom told me about that and then said that she and my dad both apologize to me for not believing me and that they would love to have me over for her birthday dinner to catch up. I asked her what her plan for my brother's punishment was and she got confused. I asked her again, reminded her that I was forced to miss out on a birthday, multiple vacations, and my driver's license at 16. She said my dad took his phone for a week and his video games for a month. I lost it on her and berated them for treating me way worse while I was being framed for being a thief while the actual thief only had his phone confiscated. I then said I will not be attending any events with them for the future and I said "you guys can go f*ck yourselves." I hung up and blocked her number. I then got a call later from my sister who told me that "while my rage is very much justified, my mother is inconsolable and has locked herself in our parents' bedroom." AITA?

................

RELEVANT COMMENTS

COMMENTOR: I think OP should point out to his sister that the brother was trying to do the same thing to her. To frame her as a thief and have her punished.

OP: Which was an even weirder move because I forgot to clarify that she moved out of that house a yearish after I did.

...

COMMENTOR: What... Sorry, I'm not following. Your brother... Tried to frame your sister for theft... When she wasn't even in the house??

OP: yeah it was a very dumb and idiotic move on his part. Have no clue what he was thinking

...

COMMENTOR: INFO: tell me more about your brother. What was your relationship with him when he was 9 to 11 and you were a teen, before everything started? What is he doing now? Is he in college/university? Does he have a job? Or is he just a moocher?

OP: He is in college as far as I know. Our relationship was never bad at all which shocked me more than anything.

...

COMMENTOR: I don't understand. I thought your parents took his phone away as a form of punishment? This is something done to a high schooler, a child, a person 18 and under still in high school

OP: He lives at home for free as far as I know. It's ridiculous and utter bullsh*t

.................................................................................................................................................

, Posted on September 23, 2023

My sister, who I will call T for simplicity, called me about an hour ago as of the time I'm writing this and apologized for what she told me. Me and her have been very close ever since I moved out and she has been known to step up and apologize when she is in the wrong. No hard feelings towards her at all.

As far as my parents go, my mother had an overnight epiphany according to T. She ended up kicking my brother, who I will call J, out of the house after they were able to make him admit to doing this for years. Mom told T that he was sent to my granddad's house where he will be forced to get a job and pay rent as well as his own tuition now. My dad initially fought with her on this until she made him realize just how badly he was tearing this family apart. My dad then called me, apologizing profusely, telling me I don't ever have to see them again and that they would totally understand it but they would love the chance to make amends and fix what they damaged. He offered to gift me the amount of money I owed for loans plus an extra $5000 for keeps. I told him I will think it over but it might take me a while. I did accept his apology but I haven't forgiven either of them yet and I hung up. My mom doesn't know that me and T have kept in contact as I live about 2 hours away from my parents and 3+ hours from her, and T relayed to me that my mom and my dad were thinking about selling some stuff they own and taking extra shifts at each of their jobs so they can get me a brand new vehicle as a surprise. I don't know how this is going to sound but I'd rather not take a car or any extra money off of them as A) Everything that I own so far I earned through my hard work and B) I feel like just buying your child's affection back is a lazy way to reconcile. As far as the situation goes, I did unblock my mom but I will not be initiating conversation unless she or my dad texts first. Also they did make an apology on Facebook to me and scolded my brother for what happened so at least my extended family knows now. I might update if something else happens but that's all I got right now.

...................

RELEVANT COMMENTS

COMMENTOR: It's nice that they now know you were framed and that they want to make amends. However, they are not owed forgiveness, and they are not entitled to a relationship with you.

If you do choose to give them a chance, start slow. They need to earn back your trust, and that doesn't happen overnight. Take some time to think about what boundaries and expectations you need to put in place to feel comfortable resuming contact with them. For example, after everything your brother has put everyone through, if you don't want to see him or if you don't want them to discuss your life with him, they need to respect that. If they can't respect that boundary, let them know how you will respond.

Good luck!

OP: I doubt I'm going to reconcile fully, their apologies feel more or less like "they're sorry because they feel guilty" moreso than "they're sorry because they wronged me and want to make it better." My brother is dead to me though, nothing he could do could fix this.

...

COMMENTOR: Accept the money, you are entitled to that and its the freaking least they can give you for being such an awful parents and for the bad treatments. But dont accept the car, because if you accept it, they will try to make you feel guilty for not forgiving them even though they tried to "make it up to you" with gifts, but if you don't accept anything from them, you won't even give them a chance to try to make you feel guilty for not forgiving them and they wouldnt have the opportunity to gaslight you, although in the end it is your decision, you can still block them once you obtain the car, you can take it as part of your compensation also haha.

Look, it's your decision if you want to forgive them and have them back in your life or not (I personally wouldn't do it). But I am very sure of one thing, you don't owe them anything, no forgiveness, no meeting or anything.

They treated you like trash for a long time, no one will blame you if you decide to not forgive them. And the best of all is that you are independent, you can survive without them so you can tell them to go to h3ll as much as you want. Just make sure you meditate and think about what you want to do.

But please OP, dont forgive them hahaha

OP: That's what I'm planning on doing, I'm going to accept the money but not the car if they actually go through and buy it.

It does feel wrong to take 5 grand from them though. Idk if it's just my stupid pride or what.

...

COMMENTOR: t’s doesn’t matter if you chose to forgive them or not. But let me say this PLEASE TAKE THE MONEY AND THE CAR (if it’s in your name) and then go low/no contact if you feel like it. Don't burden yourself anymore for the sake of people who doesn't really care about you. Don’t miss on something that will help you start your life in the best conditions. A brand new car, no debt and 5k aside… these are no joke. Remember that even your « brother » had all of these until now. If I were you I would never accept having less help than your he did. Think carefully about your next move. Wish you the best.

OP: I have decided that I will take the money but not the car, not only do I have a decent car right now and don't have space for a second but I feel like I might get wrapped up into paying high insurance costs + car payments and my current job cannot afford that right now.

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COMMENTOR: How spoiled is your youngest sibling?

OP:  think we were all spoiled equally until I turned 15 and then my brother and sister got more than I did because of him framing me.

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COMMENTOR: Do not reconcile. Do not forget. You can forgive but this feels like they’re just trying to buy your forgiveness instead of actually atoning for what they did. Don’t accept any gifts from them or help of any kind. You give people like this an inch and they take 100 miles. Maybe over time IF they prove through actions then maybe consider reconciliation, but I think you should keep your guard up for a few years around them. Again, you cannot trust people like your parents.

OP: This is exactly the same thought process I was having. Some people were considering this to be "reparations" but in my opinion, reparations would be showing me that they would be there for me and always trust me. This just feels like buying back my trust which is just lazy.

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, Posted on 26 September, 2023

I got a call from T. My brother J got arrested for stealing my grandpa's truck keys and hitting a street light about 2 miles out from their house late last night (9/25). Will update when I get more details, as I'm gonna call my dad about it, stay tuned.

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, Posted on 27 September, 2023

So my brother has not taken to his new living arrangements well at all, he hasn't gone out to look for work, and yesterday he was caught trying to break into Grandpa's safe right before he stole the truck. He was going too fast and unintentionally hit the street light. He didn't have any injuries but the truck is possibly totaled and my grandparents kicked him out too. He now has no home, and my parents have canceled his college fund and are using it to pay for my grandparents to get a new vehicle. Dad told me that he was going to try to surprise me with a new vehicle but that idea was out the window, to which I said I appreciate his offer but I would have declined it anyway because I have my reliable 01 Cherokee. My parents have practically disowned him and it's all so crazy to me as he was never truly rebellious up until this week. I think he may be dealing with some serious mental crisis and it wouldn't surprise me if his mugshot shows up on my local news. I'm not too well versed on psychology (mechanical engineering degree), so I ask, is there anyone out there with an idea as to why he may be going through this?

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, Posted on 15 October 2023

This is my second AITA post and a semi-followup to my first one + my other posts on my account.

For those not in the know, here's a quick recap: I (23 male) have been slowly reconnecting with my parents (male and female both 54) after I was framed by my brother (19 male) for stealing from my dad. Since I began interacting with them more, we have all (including my brother, my parents have un-disowned him after I had to vouch for him, saying that running away from your mistakes only make them worse) started therapy and I have my debts from school paid off.

My mom's birthday dinner was yesterday evening and I decided to go because they were eating at an expensive restaurant and they offered to pay my way fully (free food sounded good to me). Those that were there were me, my sister, my brother, my parents, my uncle and his wife (mom's side, both mid 40s) and their twins (19 male and female). I've always gotten along with their son but their daughter, who will be called R, has despised me for as long as I can remember.

My dad was pulling out his wallet for his I.D so he could get a drink and R said, in a mocking manner, "Uh oh (my dad's name), hide your wallet, you don't want (my name) getting in there." I looked at her, red in the face and embarrassed, and said something along the lines of "Your girl best friends have to say that to every guy in your friend group because of how you get around." (She is a known cheater.)

She got upset and started crying and my uncle started berating me for talking to his daughter like that and that I was still "on thin ice" for what I was framed for. I got angry, flipped him off, and left the restaurant. I called my dad and he said that I have nothing to apologize for but my mom wants me to because she wants to keep the peace between her side of the family and ours. My uncle texted me demanding an apology and R put a post out on instagram about "toxic family members". This is where I come to you again. Reddit, AITA?

Just a little more context to my background: I was punished and neglected from my mid teenage years up until I moved out because of what my brother did to me and it left me with trauma and trust issues from everyone around me. I'm usually level headed but everyone knows that what happened is a very sensitive subject.

Mini Update: Just got off the phone with my aunt (R's mom) and she gave me the most sincere apology that I've recieved in the past month. She said she has dealt with R and my uncle (don't know how) but R did take down the post and my uncle did send me a single "Sorry."

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RELEVANT COMMENTS

COMMENTOR: Info: K so you were framed for stealing and now they know that it wasnt you? Or did everyone get over it while still thinking it was you?

Why vouch for your brother if that whole situation is still lingering? Sounds like he needs to still make ammends.

Your cousin sounds like a piece of work, and while you sunk to her level, she may have deserved it. Still, you may find a more mature approach serves you better.

OP: Vouched for my brother because they were planning to cut him off like they almost did me when I and now our therapist thinks he has serious underlying issues.

Everyone knows that I am innocent in stealing yes.

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COMMENTOR: So why is the uncle making a statement that he knows is untrue? Why did your parents not correct him immediately? That would have defused the situation and ‘kept the peace’.

OP: Idk

Sometimes it feels like they still see me as a thief and honestly im probably just gonna end up reverting back to bare minimum contact

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COMMENTOR: So if your cousin really does know you're innocent why did she make the remark about the wallet. Are you sure she actually knows the truth.

OP: Yes she knows the truth, my parents made a public apology on facebook and my entire family reacted to it, including hers which was just a 👍

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COMMENTOR: Assuming R really is a cheater, NTA.

OP: She is, she's cheated twice, one of the dudes was in that friend group

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, Posted on 22 October, 2023

First and foremost, my mom actually straight up apologized to me for everything, from not taking my side at dinner, for the way I was treated for most of my teenage to adult life, and she ended up telling my uncle and cousin off. This was during a therapy session and it happened before any of us said anything to start it. My dad apologized to me, as well as to my siblings for everything. My brother is now getting some actual help now, as my parents have admitted to prioritizing me and my sister before this entire ordeal started when I was 15 and the framing began. He apologized to me for everything and was let back into my parents' house, but has to earn his trust back (I don't really care what he has to do, my contact with him is still going to be very very limited)

Also, in other news, I have a date! We met on tinder around a little over a week ago and we clicked really well! She lives around 15 minutes from my place and we're meeting at a sushi place before I take her to the movies (She wanted to see Killers of the Flower Moon). I'm hoping it goes well.

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RELEVANT COMMENTS

OP: Oh I am, I accepted the money but have only been attending therapy with them (besides the bday dinner which I wont attend another event like that for a while)

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I AM NOT THE ORIGINAL POSTER. DO NOT COMMENT ON OIRGINAL POST AS BRIGADING IS AGAINST THE RULES!!!

I am NOT the OOP. OOP is on .

TW: Sexual Assault/rape, suicidal thoughts

Mood spoiler : bleak

Status: Ongoing as per OOP

: May 07 2024

: May 14 2024 (a week later)

3 New Updates

Thanks to for finding the updates

: May 27 2024 (2 weeks later)

: June 7 2024 (10 days later)

: June 18 2024 (11 days later)

I’m starting strongly dislike my daughter…

To start off everything I’m a widow and have 3 children but in this post I’ll be focused on my two youngest daughters Lia ( F14) & maya ( F18). ( fake names ofcourse)

For little background, Lia was raped by 4 men back in December. How this incident accrued was maya threw a party while I was working the night shift and 4 of the boys that were attendance at this party assaulted Lia. It’s been devastating to say the least, Lia has lost all of her spark and quit cheer. Plus on top of that she opted out of her freshman year by just continuing to do courses online. She doesn’t sleep in her room anymore but with me and just wears my late husband’s hoodies all day and I feel so helpless as a mother because I don’t know how I can help her.

Through out the investigation a lot of things came out regarding maya’s part in this. She did not set up her little sister, however I feel like she severely neglected her and all of this could have been avoided if she just followed my rules. I never approved a party, I left in her charge of watching Lia and before you guys say “well you’re her mother it not her job to watch your kid“ but the thing is, it was her job. I pay her really well to look after her sister while I work nights it’s been an agreement we had for years. Lia is not special needs in anyway, the only thing I asked of maya is that she makes sure her sister does her homework and gets to bed at a reasonable time.

The men that assaulted Lia, maya invited herself she knew them personally and knew they had affiliates to gangs and did not care. Instead what I found out in this investigation she tried to put Lia with one of these boys and Lia was not interested…this boy was harassing Lia all night, trying to get her to kiss him. Then Lia had enough and went to her room…and the moment maya left the house to go to McDonalds..that same boy in his friends went up to my daughter’s room and raped her. The worst part about this to me is that people that were at the party heard her yelling and did not do anything but just assumed a couple was arguing upstairs. We didn’t know what happened, until the next morning when the party was over. Having her do a rape kit was traumatizing for her and probably the worst moment as a parent for me. then couple weeks later she tested positive for a curable STD.

My baby has been so broken ever since…even though they did get those boys and all 4 pleaded guilty because they had evidence on there phone. but It’s still so extremely hard for Lia right now. Maya on the other hand has been remorseful and Lia has no animosity towards her and doesn’t blame her, still loves her sister. But I don’t know why for me I’m so angry at maya and I’ve been really trying to forgive her but I can’t as of now. I can’t even look at her without not wanting to lash out. Her prom is next weekend and I honestly couldn’t care less. She tries to have conversations with me, but it’s hard for me to show any interest in them. I don’t hate my daughter, I still love her. But I just have strong dislike for her right now. I’ve been reading self help books trying to learn how to address this properly. I feel like I can’t open up to anyone about this in life. I guess this maybe cry for help as a mother.

Edit: thank you for all the feedback, the most repetitive question I’m seeing is if maya still watches Lia? The answer is hell no. I don’t trust her anymore and it might take years to get it back. I’m on a leave of absence currently. Also Lia is not therapy as of right now, she expressed to me she’s not ready for that, I think after the sentencing she might be open to it. Maya is also in therapy but skips a lot of appointments and I’m in therapy too and it’s been helping me remain calm throughout this situation and not want to lash out at Maya. But the number 1 advice that I’m seeing in here that I’m strongly considering is sending Maya to my parents house for a while and get some space from her.

Sorry quick Second edit : for the ones asking if Maya is in a gang, to my knowledge she isn’t…the most I have ever caught her doing was smoking some pot and vaping. I also don’t want to think Maya would ever intentionally set up her sister to be brutally assaulted. So I’m leaning towards Maya genuinely was being plain neglectful that night. also I feel like it would have came up in the investigation if she intentionally set up Lia. Also the boy Maya was trying to set Lia up with was 17 at the time…he’s 18 now and the other 3 were grown men.

Relevant comments from the post (and OOP's response to them):

scorpiobabyy666: therapy, ASAP. for all of you.

OOP: Yes ofcourse I already have been going to therapy way before this all and Lia on the other hand doesn’t want to do therapy just yet and I want to respect her boundaries. Maya has been skipping a lot of her appointments but she’s also in personal therapy as well.

I’m starting strongly dislike my daughter… ( UPDATE)

A lot has progressed in the past couple of days and it would be only right to update you guys on what happened and get some advice from you guys regarding everything. but to answer multiple questions I received from my last post about why hasn’t maya been further punished. to put it quite simply Maya was arrested the night of Lia’s attack. She was charged with felony child endangerment & 2 misdemeanors. The judge was very nice to her and made her pay a 2,000$ fine, 60 hours of community service & 3 years probation. plus I took her car but after this update, I maybe should have given her a harsher punishment. but back to the update. TL;DR at the bottom.

On Thursday afternoon, me and maya got into a fight. The dispute happened because Lia came to me virtually upset and on the verge of tears. because 5 people messaged her that day, expressing condolences about her attack. Lia has been very clear she doesn’t want anyone that she knows to know that she was the victim of the attack. upon further investigation it turns out Maya told a group chat of 27 people that Lia was the victim. Lia vocalized to me how humiliated she feels and that she can’t ever go back to school next year. I of course then go confront Maya about it. she kept saying I was overacting and that Lia was being dramatic. I tried to reason with her to see how she hurt her sister and she did not see the issue. She stopped me off mid-lecture from me and said, “ jesus christ Mom, you need to let her deal with this shit instead of always rushing to her defense, lia is not different from other women in the world that deal with rape, at least they don’t make it their entire personality like she does. also, she’s fine I literally overheard her talk to a boy on the phone last night.” It just clicked for me at that moment that she was not actually remorseful at all and that I just witnessed her mask slip. I just responded with pack your shit up and that she will be staying with my parents until I allow her back. That’s exactly what she did.

but the next morning I got a text from Maya to meet her at her therapist appointment that was later that day. looking back I wish I had never gone because her therapist majority of the visit only saw her POV, But At the start of the appointment, it opened up with Maya apologizing and explaining her thought process of why she told her friends and it was because she was venting, plus she didn’t think of it as a big deal because its public case that was on the news and lia seems fine these days… (Lia is listed as a Jane Doe and not named nowhere but I digress. )

we then get into the nitty-gritty of it all, Maya then tells me in front of the therapist that she feels emotionally neglected by me and that I never seem to care about her trauma when it came to the situation. which is for her is having to stay in jail for a weekend and loosing one of her friends ( which is one of Lia’s literal rapist. ) I wish I can say I’m joking but I’m dead serious. we were talking about that for the first 30 minutes. her therapist was guilt-tripping me for not being more emotionally there for Maya and that I should try to see as her mom since their father is no longer with us. But Call me an awful parent but I don’t want to be emotionally there for Maya if it involves me having to help her mourn the friendship of the person that ruined her sister’s life. The therapist was on one especially since she kept referring to what happened to Lia as an accident or that Lia seems happier these days because that’s what Maya has been telling her, when Lia is quite literally high off antidepressants and still scores extremely low on the mental health evaluation…but I finally just had an outburst, (feel free to skip over the next paragraph, because there is a massive trigger warning, I get very graphic here. But I’m just reiterating what I said. )

what I said to both Maya and her therapist was, “ I think it’s kinda disgusting that the two of you are refusing to acknowledge Lia’s trauma in this and keep referring to it as an accident. You spent a weekend in jail, while your sister was in the hospital suffering from something YOUR friend did to her. Ironically enough if you ever listened to Lia, she has said that friend of yours was the most violent towards her during the attack and was the catalyst for the majority of injuries she sustained including strangling her. So for you guys to sit here and berate me for not caring that you lost your friend because of something terrible your friend did to your sister is absolutely disgusting. My biggest regret right now is helping you obtain a lawyer I should have let you rot in that cell and let you figure it out yourself. “

Maya started sobbing in the office at this point and saying it wasn’t fair that I blamed her for what happened to Lia, she told me the only thing she was trying to do was have Lia come out of her shell because she kept hovering next to her at the party. The therapist then interjects and asks Maya how did Lia respond to her when she apologized. Maya in such a defensive manner says, “apologize for what? I didn’t rape her”. Even the therapist was shocked when she said that and at that point, I heard enough and l stood up, threw my hands up, and left. I haven’t spoken to Maya since then and this was Friday afternoon.

Maya has been texting me and calling me begging to come home so she can apologize to both me and Lia. But I don’t know at this point, I never thought I would be that parent that will have to go no contact with my daughter. But I don’t know if I can stomach being around her, I can’t trust her and she’s not remorseful whatsoever about what happened. A part of me wants to try to make it work for the sake of Lia because she asked yesterday if she ruined our family. And that broke my heart. Lia loves and looks up to Maya and I don’t think she can comprehend at this time that Maya also failed her. I’m just stuck or tell me if I’m wrong for not understanding maya I’m sorry for the not-so-happy update..

OOP in the comments:

OOP's response to a comment regarding her reaction after finding out Lia was SA'd:

So I should say what happened that morning at this point, I come home at 8:30ish am from work and my house was trashed and couple of mayas friends were still there. I of course argued with maya for a bit about throwing a party and I then I go check on Lia and she wasn’t in her room but her sheets were bloody so I thought maybe it was time of the month and that she was showering or sleeping in my bed. But when I check my room I did not see her, I started calling Lia and her phone did ring and I heard it come from my closet (it’s a walk-in) and I see her wrapped in a blanket like a cocoon. I then shake her to wake up and she wasn’t waking up and I then try to unwrap and that’s when I noticed her scalp bleeding and I saw abrasions around her neck. So I started screaming someone call 911 and Lia starts to kinda starts waking up in the ambulance and she starts crying and the first thing she told me is maya’s friend raped her and that she can’t get up because she’s in so much pain.

When The police and ambulance show up and I honestly didn’t care about maya in that moment…all I told her was to be honest with the police and she should be fine. I didn’t know what I know now at this point. They take her to precinct and the cops interrogated her and after getting a medical report for what happened to Lia. They decided to charge her with child endangerment. I did not see Maya’s reaction to when they told her about what happened to Lia. But when she saw Lia once she got out of jail she gave her a big hug and I thought it was sweet moment. The only red flag that stands out to me from that time is , maya did not corporate fully about giving out names because she said she “forgot”. Luckily DNA results from the crime scene and on Lia, which all 4 of Lia’s rapist were already in the system for other crimes. One even being on probation so they were easy to find and it was dominos effect after that.

OOP's response regarding Child #3 and their reaction to the whole thing:

So my oldest is my son he got married a month before everything went down and I didn’t want to drag him in too much about Maya, because I want him to enjoy the newlywed faze with his wife. Him and his wife are very supportive and his wife takes Lia all the time for sleepovers or just to get her out of the house.

**New Updates start Here**

Moms of depressed teenagers, what are ways you help them? - 2 weeks later

I know I’m probably not alone with dealing with this, but my daughter ( F14) has been so extremely depressed, rightfully so she went through two traumatic events in the span of 4 years at her young age. she was sexually assaulted back in December and she lost her dad 4 years ago. I just remember when I was 14 I felt like the world was against me and I had both of my parents on my side & I never been through an assault so I can’t comprehend what she’s going through right now. This morning I overheard her crying in the bathroom and I asked her if she was fine and she quickly said she’s okay..

It just makes me feel so helpless as her mom that I can’t help her or take away any of that pain she’s feeling. I can’t even fully relate to her. because I haven’t been sexually assaulted before and both my parents are still alive. So I feel like I’m a horrible mom because I can’t guide her and help her with the situation at hand. I feel like as a mom I should have all the answers and I don’t….I just know in her head every time I try to comfort her she thinks “what is this woman talking about” because I feel like I don’t know what I’m talking about 99.9% of the time. So any other moms that can relate please drop some helpful tips.

WIBTA if I kept my daughter’s inheritance from my late husband? - 10 days later

I have three kids (M24, F18, and F14). My late husband died very unexpectedly four years ago due to COVID. He didn’t have a will, but we had a life insurance policy that provided a $360k death benefit. As his spouse, I received the full amount. I decided to divide the money four ways: I would get $120k, and each of my three kids would get $80k.

At the time, my daughters were both minors, so I told them they could access their full amount when they turned 18. However, if they ever wanted to do something pricey, I would allow them to use some of their share. Most of their needs were taken care of by me. My son was over 18, so I gave him his share right away.

This arrangement was a verbal agreement, and I intended to follow through with it fully. Recently, however, my middle daughter We will call her Maya, was arrested in December for child endangerment because she severely neglected her little sister, leading to something awful happening under her care. She had to use some of her $80k to pay for lawyer and court fees, which left her with about $65k.

Fast forward to today, and my youngest daughter is still struggling significantly. During her check-ups, she scores very low on mental health evaluations and is on a high dosage of antidepressants. She often jokes that if she were to tell us or the doctors how she truly feels, she would be put in a psych ward.

Maya no longer lives with us as I felt her presence was doing more harm than good to her sister. She’s staying with my parents for now but has been begging me to give her the money I promised after she graduated. I’ve been hesitant to do so. My sister, who is familiar with the situation, believes Maya doesn’t deserve the money and that I should use it to stay home longer with my youngest, who will be alone during the day once I return to work soon. With my youngest's declining mental health and school being out, I’m very worried about her.

Maya is about to go off to college, and I know most of the money would go toward that. However, I’m still very angry with Maya for the pain she caused her sister. I’m having a hard time making this decision.

So, WIBTA if I kept her inheritance?

( I’m interested to hear everyone’s perspective just be kind)

EDIT: I didn’t expect so many comments but I reading through all them..to the ones that are asking what would husband say if he was here.. I honestly don’t know that’s why I’m conflicted a part of me want to think he would honestly say for me to give maya the money so she go to college, because college was important to him. But also another part of me knows if he herd the details about what happened to Lia he would be way brutal then I am and disown her permanently so it’s hard to make a call on what would he want when I don’t know.

TINY UPDATE: I saw a couple comments that told me I should ask Lia, I didn’t flat out ask her like it was her call, to avoid putting unnecessary pressure on her about what I should do, but she told me “mom I think you should give it to her because I don’t want her to be mad at me..she already blames me for getting kicked out”…. She still loves and cares about maya. She doesn’t blame her for what happened to her YET. The reason why I say YET is because I haven’t sat down with her and help her fully understand, what maya did to her was wrong and I’m honestly dreading it. She doesn’t know what maya has said about her nor doesn’t know the true details why she was arrested. In her head she thinks maya was arrested because she threw a party.

Comments

PurpleStar1965

I just read your post history. I am so sorry for you and Lia. What Maya did was evil. I don’t doubt for a minute that she knew what was going to happen when she left the house that night. The fact that she is more upset the Lia’s rapist is lost as a friend to her really makes that clear.

With that said - I think you should use whatever you need from the money to stay home and get Lia involved in intensive out patient trauma therapy. Please extend your leave of absence. Look into FMLA (if you are in the states) - that will offer 12 weeks of job protection.

Maya doesn’t need the money. That was was life insurance money left for you to care for yourself and children. And right now Lia needs care. Maya can get a job and work. You already paid for her legal fees and fines due to her abuse of Lia. That is enough. And honestly, she will just blow through any money you give her. Probably putting it all in her friends jail commissary account. I think your responsibilities to Maya are complete. She is of legal age. She shows no remorse. She can can now be an independent adult.

Please put Lia and yourself first.

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I’m adding on since your updates. Lia is a victim. And right now, like many victims of rape she is blaming herself. Also, right now, she literally, mentally, cannot comprehend that her sister caused this to happen. Not through negligence my dearest OP, but on purpose. Because she gave Lia to those men the moment she left that house. Her comments in that therapy session make that crystal clear.

I don’t think Maya deserves any assistance. She made a choice to pick gang rapists over her family. I don’t think your husband would be as conflicted as you are. Ultimately, this was life insurance monies that you, solely you, received. Money meant for you to care for yourself and the children. Right now Lia needs 1000% of your care. Lia may need life long care. Therapy, on the level and for the duration that Lia will need, will cost more than you realize. At some point, after she has had been in therapy and dealt with the immediate after affects of her assault, she needs to begin processing what Maya did. The only way for her to heal and come to terms is to understand it all. She needs you. You need money to care for her. She comes first.

Maya gave her away her right to assistance from you when she gave away her sister. If you feel you must, put money in a separate savings for future consideration. If Maya actually goes to college. If she passes. If she shows that she has some shred of human decency towards her sister and shows any remorse for what she did.

I can’t imagine the pain that you are in. Please seek therapy for yourself. I understand your denial of Maya’s intentions. But you need to focus on Lia and use the insurance money for her. She has a long road to recovery and may always need extra care and support.

My daughter begged me to let her die - 11 days later

My daughter Lia (F14) , has been having a tough time with the aftermath of her rape last December. This past week has been particularly the worse for us. It started last Tuesday when a sheriff and another official visited our home. They informed us that one of Lia's rapists, the one who filmed the assault, had shared the video within a group, and now it’s circulating on parts of the dark web. The video, was filmed in Lia's room, it contained identifiable objects that revealed where she went to school. I was devastated upon hearing this news. Lia's reaction surprised me; she didn't cry or show much emotion. Instead, she simply shrugged and said, "I figured," before just sitting there in silence. The officials reassured us that it's uncommon for perpetrators to surface in such cases, but they felt obligated to inform us for safety reasons.

After they left, Lia resumed acting as if nothing had happened, almost overly cheerful. I attempted to discuss it with her several times, but she avoided the topic. This behavior persisted throughout the week until she unexpectedly revealed that she had written a victim impact statement and wanted to read it herself in court, rather than allowing the prosecutor to do so. She felt that since there was no trial, only the charges against the rapist were known, not the details of what she endured. Her statement is a detailed account of that horrific night, but she has yet to read it to me in its entirety because she breaks down in tears every time she tries. That moment was the only time I saw her express emotion all week, until Saturday night.

That evening, Lia appeared unusually cheerful again and mentioned going to bed early around 8 p.m. I didn't think much of it until I received a call from one of Lia’s closest friends' mother. She was concerned because Lia's last message to her daughter was a note expressing love and asking her to check on her. I rushed to Lia's room and found she had attempted to overdose on ZzzQuil. As a nurse, I knew she would recover, but seeing her wake up in the hospital was heartbreaking.

She screamed, “Why couldn’t you just let me die? I want to die, Mom. I’m tired of feeling their hands on me. I want it to stop. Please let me die.” They had to sedate her to calm her down. Following this, Lia was placed under a 72-hour psychiatric hold and subsequently transferred to a mental health facility with peers her age. The staff recommended extending her stay beyond the initial hold, but Lia has been struggling, especially with a male staff member—possibly a psychiatrist—who she says is asking invasive questions about her sexuality, causing discomfort.

Staff members informed me she isn’t participating in group activities and appears standoffish. They even proposed restricting her ability to contact me as a consequence, though I requested they hold off on implementing such measures. I’m uncertain if the current inpatient setting is suitable, given Lia's apparent difficulty adjusting.

Her plea for her to die continues to haunt me. It's a thought I can't shake. Lia's best friend shared additional details Lia had kept from me—there’s a hurtful rumor circulating that Lia let a train be ran on her, leading to her involving the police out of embarrassment…..Children can be so incredibly cruel.

As far as my other daughter maya (F18), I haven't spoken to her in two weeks. But I did recently discovered why Lia feels indebted to her. Two years ago, I found inappropriate messages on Lia’s phone between her and Maya’s ex-boyfriend. He expressed love for Lia, and also compared her to Maya. He told her she was way prettier than maya and he liked she was her virgin. When I told Maya, she was furious and broke up with him, but she believed Lia had betrayed her by engaging with her boyfriend. Even though Lia was 12 at the time and her boyfriend was 17. Maya still avoided Lia for three months afterward, and despite Lia's efforts to apologize, Maya still holds a grudge. Lia blames herself for damaging their relationship because of this incident.

I’m sharing this too get this off my chest , I've kept these struggles within our family to protect my daughters. I'm exhausted, constantly dealing with new challenges, and unsure how to mend them. Now, I find myself in the difficult position of deciding whether Lia is mentally prepared to speak at her rapist's sentencing. I fear she’ll resent me for this decision, but I question if she’s in a stable enough state to handle a potential traumatic event. Because these boys actually have character witnesses.

Update- so I read a lot of your responses and I agree. I don’t think impatient is for her. So I’ll be getting her tomorrow when her 72hr hold is up. I’m gonna spend today researching on the right therapist for her that specializes in cases like Lia. As far as letting Lia speak at her sentencing I’m conflicted on that still. I know I can’t shield her from the world but i just have the biggest fear that my baby will pour her heart out in the court room and it will be like Brock turner all over again and they somehow just get the minimum sentence.

More information on the psych-

So I talked to Lia further about what the psych said to her make her uncomfortable. She told me when I left they made her sit down with him one on one. To basically debrief why she was there and what’s causing her to have these thoughts and she opened up to him and told her about the rape however, he asked her if this was her only sexual experience and she told him yes. But he kept questioning her like he didn’t believe it was her only experience and saying to her that he won’t tell me if it wasn’t that she can say it and she kept having tell him no this was that was her only experience. Then he asked about her sexuality if she still attracted to men and she just told him that she doesn’t think about relationships right now. She just said that she felt weird about him asking a lot of questions about her sex life. When it was just those two alone in a room with the door close.

I’m not gonna accuse the psych of being a creep, because maybe he was simply doing his job but I feel like he should have known to have a female staff ask her those questions. Or just have a woman present. He had have seen her chart before he seen her.

Comments

cryssylee90

Restricting communication with you as a consequence?

Get her out of there IMMEDIATELY.

Appropriately trained mental health professionals who are also experienced in handling sexual assaults would not force a victim to cut contact with one of their few trusted people as some sort of gross punishment for not participating immediately in therapy.

There are some great inpatient care centers, and I don’t disagree that Lia likely needs intensive inpatient care right now, but there are also many bad ones and this place does NOT sound safe.

Hugs to you and Lia. I’ve been following your story since the beginning, and I know her struggle as well. I had 3 attempts following my SA before I began to get better, but I didn’t have anyone looking out for me. Thankfully she has you.

No_Organization_8038

I made my own comment on this earlier. I work as a nurse, and I remember my psych rotation well. I also know that “punishment” is not something we can do to patients. Not ever, and especially not in psych. Psych patients do have different “rights” than your typical joint replacement or abdominal diagnosis patient, but they absolutely still have rights. They cannot leave AMA on a whim, the unit itself is locked as well, and typically visitation is much less often than other units. However, they cannot force medication, cannot restrain patients (except for safety purposes, and it must be documented on frequently, with opportunity to remove said restraints at each interval and the patient cannot be alone), and we cannot force group/any participation unless it is court ordered (usually a very rare occurrence). This poor girl does need serious help right now, but I would be worried about this place doing more harm than good.

tronassembled

I, uh, I REALLY don't like the fact that they're trying to limit your contact with her as some sort of punishment for her not appreciating a male staffer asking invasive questions about her sexuality

tittyswan

She needs to talk to Lia and have her chose a new clinic. This one sounds fucked and Lia really needs to have some sense of control rn.

UnquantifiableLife

It sounds like the mental health facility is a general one. I would look into getting her transferred to one that specializes in rape victims.

I think Maya is a psychopath. It sounds like she set Lia up because of that situation. I wouldn't have anything to do with her ever again.

I think you need to get some help yourself. This is too much for one person to handle.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I don't get why people act like loud cars/big trucks are lame

there seem to be a lot of people who act like when a car is loud or a truck is big the driver must be incredibly lame or “compensating for something”. i just don’t really get this, my assumption is that it comes from trying to seem too cool for something that other people are into.

most people spend a lot of time in their car if they use it every day so it seems reasonable to have one that you like.

i guess i just don’t get why it bothers some people so much

.

They are for the lowest quality person out there, dudes with cop skull(...)

If you have some diesel lifted pickup with the cleanest bed on God's green Earth that clogs up two parking spaces, I'm sorry, you aren't a necessary person. Please get a vasectomy immediately to keep your genetics from becoming a boil on the hairy swamp-ass'd taint of the next generation.

(...) Cop skull = lowest quality person? Try human trafficker (...)

“I don’t like your loud car” = “You aren’t a necessary person” OOF morally bankrupt take

You're right we need more triple parking loud fat angry wife and child beaters in this world

People who say oof and don't want to genocide people they don't like are boring

.

I’m autistic and loud cars = sensory issues

I have autism and the engine noise is soothing

it doesn't matter if a loud engine is soothing to one person if everyone else hates it.

Soothing to lots of people, internet hivemind hates it*

(cont.)

how is this opinion an internet hivemind thing (...)? exactly. it isn't. YOU are in the minority, that isn't an internet hivemind opinion, it's a fact.

Old people hivemind* “Get off my lawn you dastardly kids” sounding ahh. Just because of this post I’m putting an aftermarket resonator on my 2010 4 banger 5speed and taking the cat off, gonna rev it down multiple residential areas every single night.

i mean whatever man. there's no response i can give you that's going to make you less of an inconsiderate asshole. (...)

(cont.)

Alright buddy just for saying that I’m gonna rev first gear as loud as possible outside of the local children’s hospital at 2am tomorrow night, for 30 minutes straight. Hope your happy

i feel like for this big of a troll you should be better at rage bait lol. have fun outside the children's hospital!

I’m trying to get better at it

.

They are lame. And show narcissist traits. What I like. F everybody else [link to study]

The person in the article gives literally no evidence. Just claims they interviewed people and that it was linked but never actually backed it up. (...)

It's right here dumbass [link] Source; it was linked

Apologies. I’ll see myself out on this one.(...) as long as you’re not being selfish about stuff like this, owning a loud car should be fine. People who rip in their fart can civics at 2am are boneheaded assholes who ruin things for everyone.

(cont.)

I agree! All good, sorry to call you a dumbass.(...)

.

What do you mean you don’t understand why some people find things which are loud and pollute the surrounding area lame? Lots of people have a condition which makes them susceptible to those things and of course it will bother them.

Also, I'm just generally repelled by people peacocking around. In every circumstance. (...)

See and this is where you're missing the point. There are certainly people who drive loud cars to peacock around and grab attention. There are also a lot of people like me who like the way they sound and smell and drive. I couldn't give two shits what you(...) Believe it or not, there are people who don't care about you, your opinion, or your attention.

And people are allowed to find you incredibly obnoxious. (...) Obviously I can’t legally stop you, but you don’t get to be bothered by people saying that you and your ilk are a public nuisance and wishing you weren’t on the road. Good for you on being remarkably nasty and inconsiderate, I guess?

(cont.)

And good for you being an incredibly sensitive crybaby who can't tolerate any noise except that which you make yourself. My car isn't THAT loud (...) Your confirmation bias is crazy. (...) You lump all automotive enthusiasts together and then wonder why we've decided not to car about you.

Whooo, boy. You’re awfully defensive. If you drive your loudass car in a way that isn’t obnoxious to others, it’s obviously not a problem. But the degree of pissy you get the second someone suggests that maybe being an inconsiderate ass on the road for no practical reason suggests that maybe you… don’t.

Ah yes the old "I can tell you're a certain way because you refuse to be insulted" bullshit. It's not my fault you don't understand bell curves or the subtle concept of nuance. Also can't account for general stupidity. (...)

In the simplest terms possible, not everyone who likes loud cars is going around peeling out of parking lots or ripping down your street at 2am in a straight piped Civic.

(cont.)

In the simplest terms possible, the people who don’t go peeling out of parking lots or ripping down the street don’t bother anyone. Nobody cares about those folks. If you aren’t doing those things, nobody cares about you. Why are you so sensitive to critism of bad behavior you say you’re not even involved with?

As an aside, if you genuinely think statistical distributions (Gaussian or otherwise) have anything to do with this conversation, then we must be reading completely different conversations— there’s not a lot of “subtle nuance” here, either.

.

I have no clue what subreddit this is (...) but holy shit... It has been a long time since I have seen a comment section so unbelievably dramatic.

You all cannot control everyone and everything else, be annoyed for a moment, move on. Even in nature there are some bugs so loud that they can drown out conversations when near.

Living things make noise. Adapt or die.

Loud cars aren't some act of nature. The driver wasn't born with a loud exhaust. They're the result of a conscious decision to purchase a device that's a public nuisance. The weird part is how some of them will make surprised Pikachu faces when it turns out that their annoying device actually annoys people.

“Some of them will make surprised pikachu faces” This is the corniest shit I’ve read this year bro what

Congrats on waking up from that coma yesterday.

I walk down a street, I need to listen to constant sounds of revving engines. I need to constantly look both ways when crossing a road, I need to have my view obstructed by all the parked cars, I need to cover my nose with my shirt because the exhaust smells like shit. 'be annoyed for a moment and move on' its fucking constant annoyance and whats worse of all is that people die from cars all the time. almost everyone i know has been in a car crash before, im sure its the same for you too.

If we lived in a world of only horse, carriage, and foot - You would still find time to complain of the carriage, or certain species of horse, or certain shoes which clop too loudly, or certain boisterous public drunks shouting at one another. Perhaps you would have been more annoyed by the stench of the horses waste, or dodging their droppings as you move from place to place.

You're just a miserable person who focuses far too much on themselves and does not allow your fellow man enough grace nor empathy.

Cars aren’t alive, hope this helps ♥️

And the humans within them are not living things?

(...) Even if we took away every cars exhaust, what of the jackhammers? What of the heavy machines, cranes, and trucks delivering to and fro, and constructing your world?

(...) You cannot avoid it. If you live near people, you will hear them. C'est la vie.

(...) All of the other things you listed (essentially construction and delivery trucks) provide an actual use and not a single one is loud for the sake of being loud.

.

they are lame, theres nothing positive about them.

To you.

to anyone. The only possible positive is asthetic, which is subjective and generally says more about you than the car.

My car is quite literally my favorite possession and puts a smile on my face every day. I don't care about how you feel about it, but my car has plenty of positives for me. I've never understood the lifted truck nonsense, but because other people do, they should have that right. It definitely should be a bit more regulated because there is no reason you shouldn't be able to see the car next to you, but it's their money and as long as there are no laws against it, it's none of my business, neither is it any of yours.

(cont.)

Im not a sheep. I don't decide my morals based on what is lawful and enither should you.

This isn't just someone waering a harmless hat to express themselves, they present a danger on the road (...)

and in return the only benefit even your bias could come up with is that it makes you feel good. That subjective desire just isnt remotely worth the downsides.

Until big corporations do some shit with their factories, semis, freight ships etc. im not getting rid of the things that make me happy. The environment is too far gone (...) My subjective desire that I spend my money on, is not something some BS argument like yours is gonna control. You dont have to like it, im not expecting that, but tou not being able to even respect other people doing what they want in life is incredibly pathetic.

I generally agree that enviromental issues are a corporate responsibility. But things like unecassary climate control and massive cars are actually bad enough for individual consumers to make a dent.

Thats also doesn't address my other arguments.

(cont.)

I said they are dangerous and I dont agree with thay being allowed but I cant do anything about it lnao so if noone who can will bother its not my concern. I just stay away from those morons as best as I can.

.

Clearly a very inconsiderate (or absolutely fucking deaf) person wrote this.

Maybe we ought to put you in a room with traffic noise for a couple hours to see how you like it, Slugger.

your cell at gitmo will be a cold one

Everyone you meet can tell that you're insecure.

Edit: it's really obvious if you comment in a 3-day old thread, guys, chill

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . They posted in

Thank you so much to who recommended this!

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7.

Trigger Warning: gaslighting; death of aquatic animals

Mood Spoiler: bizarre but OOP will be ok

Original : June 13, 2024

I never post on here, ever, but I’m seriously so confused. I returned home this morning from a 3 week trip in Japan to find my betta fish looking completely different. Now granted, my fish did get sick while i was away due to an infection a new Pleco had brought to the tank. I guess I’m just concerned that my boyfriend lied about my fish surviving.

I’ve had my betta for months now and he has never ever looked any different, or sick, and I did get him from my boyfriends brothers ex-wife after she abandoned him and I thought I had brought him back from what he looked like then, which was not good or no where near what he looks like now. The first photo is my fish when I left. The second is what I’ve come home to. I really need answers. He’s reduced in size, the tail is shorter and flared significantly more, and the obvious, he’s completely different colors. He was magenta and purple, and now blue and orange? He also has a scar of some kind on the other side of his body, which is no where to be seen on him now.

Image descriptions:

First image: A purple and blue betta with more of a shwoopy tail

Second image: A red and teal-ish betta with more of a fan tail (They are quite different fish)

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Bettas can change colors, but they can't just change from a Veil tail to a half moon tail, shrink in size, or magically get rid of scars lol. I'm very sorry about your original fish.

OOP: Thank you for this. ♥️🫶🏻

Commenter: It's a different fish, he didn't want you to be sad :(

OOP: I’m sure he didn’t mean any harm but he’s refusing to admit he replaced it, makes me feel like he thinks I’m stupid. 😭🫶🏻 Thank you for your comment.

Commenter (part of a longer comment): If you're mad or offended by this it's completely justified. i personally don't find it cute or sweet at all he's refusing to admit he replaced your fish. It undermines your love for the original in multiple ways (refusing to allow you to grieve it on your own terms + thinking you'd not recognize it being an entirely different fish, what lol?) & overall it's just dishonest.

OOP: Not offended at all by this- I’m incredibly upset with him at the moment, the most I have been our entire relationship in all honesty, given that we are coming up on 10 months officially together. I couldn’t tell you why he’s refusing to admit it now.

I agree that I would prefer to grieve my fish if he has passed. And, I’m huge on names being special and the one I had for him just happened to be really close to me, so I don’t want to associate it with another fish. And yes, it makes me believe he thinks I’m quite stupid, believing I wouldn’t recognize it was a different fish, but it was the first thing I walked to upon my return to home and my first ten minutes were spent with my mouth hanging open inspecting because I was just so in shock and could clearly tell this was not the fish I left.

I tried to give the benefit of the doubt with the sickness altering his appearance, but he had been assuring me my fish was healthy now and “looked different under the light” and that the tank was really dirty..I cleaned it myself just 2 days before leaving, and he had been cleaning it too..but that infection had taken place over a week ago at this point. And, he had no problems telling me the Plecos had passed. I can’t even describe how angry it makes me and confused. Thank you for your comment.

Commenter (part of a longer comment): Don't let him convince you that its not a big deal. If you were already having talks about the state of the tank why on earth would he not just be honest? Its extremely avoidant and immature of him honestly, and does make it seem like he thinks you're stupid. Plus, refusing to allow you to grieve your original fish is just immoral. I totally get what you mean about the name.

OOP: Once I convinced myself that wasn’t my original fish, It was something I messaged him about constantly all day. He would say yes every time and I still could not believe it. Even expressed that I do not believe him and to just tell me. This going on with the fish was just the cherry on top of today so I really tried to get it out of him even in an argument about something different and he still refuses to tell me.

It makes no sense whatsoever and I can assure you and everyone else that might be reading this that I will not let him get away with it. All of my animals are incredibly precious to me, no matter how physically small they are. And people thinking im stupid has got to be my biggest pet peeve. As much as it hurts my feelings coming from him, my ego is way too high for him to think I wouldn’t recognize a fish in a tank that literally faces the bed I sleep in every night.

Commenter: I do find it strange that the boyfriend would refuse to admit that it is a different fish, even when pressed repeatedly. Is he normally defensive, and refuses to admit fault in other aspects of life too?

I don't think he believes you are stupid, I think the whole thing is about him and the way he deals with conflict. And I think he has some growing up to do.

OOP: He has never been this defensive, especially after constant prying. Thats why I’m so confused. I don’t know if you had seen another comment of mine but there were also 2 plecos in the tank that passed, and he had no issues telling me they had went. It’s definitely very strange. Thank you for your comment!

Commenter: It’s obvious it’s not the same fish. Please do not let him gaslight you into thinking it’s the same fish. I find it very concerning his lack of honesty here & you should maybe reconsider your relationship with this person if he can’t even own up to something that is important to you. I’m sorry op.

OOP: Thank you for your comment, I agree with you entirely that this lack of honesty he’s presenting is not ideal for a relationship. I’m hoping to talk with him in person tomorrow about it. Thank you again! ❤️🫶🏻

Commenter: Maybe he viewed the betta as your pride and joy, and thought that somehow his failure to treat the infection of the betta might give you cause to blame him, and he doesn't want that.

Did the newest pleco come from the store? Did he buy it, or introduce it to the betta tank? My only possible explanation is that he must feel responsible and isn't ready to admit to anyone that the fish died under his care. Even if it isn't truly his fault.

OOP: I have assured him plenty that I will not blame him because I know it couldn’t have been his fault if they all had gotten sick. And yes, my new pleco was from the store and was introduced, and was only in there a couple weeks into me being gone before it was the first to go. He thinks the new one started the infection, and got to the other pleco that killed him a few days later. I think it was a fungal infection cause he described them as “looking fuzzy” 💔💔 He said he ran medicine through and that my betta had survived it, but clearly that is not the case.

Commenter: Have you tried just telling him you know it's not the same fish? Maybe in a calm, nonaccusitory way? Like "I'm not mad, I just want you to be honest with me. I know this is not (fishes name), please tell me the truth so we can move on from this."

OOP: Well, I’m currently waiting for his response to my message of confrontation, cause my previous ones have all just been a series of “Are you sure?” and “Was he really that sick?” and also just stating how different the fish looked, all of which he replied to with reassurance that it was my original fish. Perhaps maybe tried a bit too hard to convince me of it now that I look back on the texts between us.

Commenter: People throw the word gaslighting around on here all the time, but this seems like an actual case of it for once. That is 1000% a different fish. Even if he did it to keep your feelings from being hurt, it’s still messed up that he won’t admit it. All I can say is you need to give things a long, hard look before continuing

OOP: I mean, I can’t believe I even posted about it on Reddit, it’s clearly not the same fish, goes to show with how well he was able to almost convince me this was the same fish. And I will be honest the original fish was my first so I wasn’t quite aware of anything that unusual happening and I think he was using that to his advantage to try and get me to believe it’s the same fish.

Commenter: I feel so bad for you and your original fish. The new fish is lucky to have such an attentive and concerned parent in you, if you decide to keep it.

Please take care of yourself, as you can tell we are worried for you at the same time as being sad/frustrated about your fish. I agree that this may be just the tip of the iceberg... I'd even reevaluate anything he has told you in the past that didn't quite make sense. more hugs

OOP: I will absolutely be keeping the new betta. Anything that steps foot or fin in my home stays. 🥰 Thank you for commenting.

Commenter (part of a much longer comment): Did you see the infection? Did he show you? Did he ever show any animosity to the fish you had? Has he ever ‘tested’ you in the past or tried to see how much he could get away with? Could he be jealous or bitter you also keep fish?

OOP: No, he never did take pictures or show me the fish at all. Not even when they passed. Just described what was happening.

I never saw the infection he was talking about even prior to leaving. I don’t think it is a possibility he’s jealous of the fish if I’m being completely real there. He has never been dishonest like this before so it’s definitely tricky and confusing as to why all of a sudden he’s being so adamant on that being the same fish.

I’d hope he didn’t purposely give them away, I wouldn’t see any reasoning behind it or even who he’d give them to. I also don’t think it’s possible that he maliciously got rid of them. Maybe he was neglectful in whatever way and felt bad sure, but I don’t think he meant any harm to them specifically.

My fish and water quality were perfect before I left. I strip test my water after every cleaning to make sure everything is smooth. My strip came back with flying colors (literally). The fish was replaced before I returned home so, I actually don’t have any idea of when the original fish could have gone but probably within the last week or two. Thank you for your comment! I hope I covered everything lol.

Update in : June 13, 2024 (12 hours later)

Hello Everyone. It will not let me edit this post. But im here to tell you all that he admitted to it not being the same fish. It took as far as me threatening to break up which is childish to me but thats the length i had to take.

I have told him i do not want to continue a relationship with a liar so as of right now we are no longer together. Thank you EVERYONE for commenting and confirming that I am not crazy and giving me information to back myself up. I appreciate everyone’s advice and concern and certainly hope you guys are pleased with this update! If anyone has further questions I’ll still be answering. Thank you again.

Edit: I will also point out that the new fish will stay with me despite his offering to take him off my hands, and will not be treated any differently or less attended to. I have named the new fish “Dunno” and he will be very well loved with me. I have yet to find out what my ex has done with the original fish, I was too angry and heated that I forgot to ask and will not get another chance for that closure until later on when he gets home from work. All signs point to he flushed it though.

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: I’m so sorry, did he tell you what happened to your old fish? :(

OOP: Yes, he confirmed whatever infection that had spread in the tank had killed my betta sadly.

Commenter: im so sorry for your loss. i can only imagine how you feel after all this. maybe you can look into rehoming the imposter? just so he isnt given up on but neither are you. also, glad to hear you stood up for yourself and said goodbye to that meany head. if hed lie about your pets life, who know what else hed lie about. hes got some growing up to do.

OOP: Thank you! I will say that rehoming the fish has not been a thought I’ve dawned on at all, that’s just not how I roll yknow. I have to think about how scared that fish must’ve been getting into that new environment. And, I have to be sure my boyfriend actually rid the infection of the tank before plopping a new fish in there. So I can’t send off a possibly sick fish who had no contribution to my boyfriend’s actions. I would never forgive myself for punishing his little life for things he can’t help! I will be keeping him, and making sure he has a great life. I will be replacing quite literally everything in the tank and deeply cleaning my filters though! “Dunno” seems to be very healthy as of right now though😇

To a deleted comment:

It’s way deeper than the fish! I’ve mentioned in other comments that we’d been arguing a lot more since before the fish. This dishonesty and betrayal just happened to be the final straw, but thank you for your input …

The name:

Hahaha! Named him “Dunno” because, I dunno where the hell this fish came from. (I mean, I do now but, at the time I didn’t it was fitting.) Thank you!!! 😊

CONTEXT It's not the first time that , a sub for foreign residents of Japan to discuss life and work in the country, has been featured here for drama, and yet another post is a contender. The sub itself is infamous for having an undertone of toxicity and oddly nationalistic fervor for Japan, to the point that a spin-off sub was created to avoid it to some degree, . This time has a user commenting that if you want to be accepted in Japan by ethnic Japanese, essentially, just "git gud". The other users of the sub begin to roast them for their overly verbose argument. Prepare for some wordy drama.

始まり

How is it impossible? Ethnicity is largely just culture and language. It could be related to origins but not always and certainly not in the case of Japan.

Ethnicity incorporates a LOT of things, not just culture and language, and the important components vary according to the group in question. Ancestry is a key element to ethnicity in the eyes of Japanese. This is why individuals with Chinese and Korean ancestry who have lived in Japan for generations will still be seen as "others" if it is found out that they have Chinese or Korean ancestry. For white foreigners, you will never be able to "pass" as Japanese. It is impossible. It doesn't mean you can't be accepted and have a good life here, but you will never be ethnically Japanese.

Ethnicity can include a lot of things, but it depends on the goup. responds to "Ancestry is a key element to ethnicity in the eyes of Japanese". No, this is false. The Japanese ethnic group includes individuals from different ancestral groups and if you look at modern politics the idea that being Japanese is something inherited by blood is a left-wing view that doesn't represent the majority. For a good example of the majority view, prime minister Abe wrote about this exact topic in his book 美しい国へ. more follows

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept of ethnicity from both an academic and a layman's perspective. You also appear to be clueless about how the average Japanese person defines being "Japanese". Also, you don't know wtf Zainichi are. Plenty of them are citizens, as are the Chinese counterparts. They are still "othered" when it is found out that they are not of Japanese ancestry. They will never be seen as ethnically Japanese without Japanese ancestry. There are countless articles about this and I have witnessed it firsthand. Hell, even hafu are often not seen as ethnically Japanese even when they have lived here their entire life and a monolingual. You use a flood of meaningless rambling words to try to cover up for the fact that you lack even a basic understanding of the concepts that you are trying to lecture others on.

Zainichi is a legal status. It's not possible for someone to be zainichi if they are a Japanese citizen. And you are incorrect about ethnicity, you are following the American usage that equates it as a PC term for race.

Zainichi is not a legal status, it's a sociocultural term. The legal status of most non-citizen zainichi is 特別永住者. Some have become citizens. Others have lost their 特別永住者 status and are living in Japan on other statuses including regular as 永住者. They are still considered zainichi by society. You seem to have convinced yourself that it is possible for you to "be Japanese", especially if you naturalize. It doesn't work that way. Even half-Japanese who have been raised in Japan (some of whom only speak Japanese, are entirely culturally Japanese, and only hold Japanese citizenship) are considered outsiders by many. Okinawans and Ainu also face discrimination in Japan. One of the keys to loving your life in Japan is to embrace not being Japanese. Some of the most disillusioned & miserable people I have met in my decades here are those who believed they could become Japanese with enough effort, only to eventually conclude it is impossible.

Another user queries the OP on why they care

Why does anyone care about anything? Nobody can be nonchalant all the time. Why do you care that I have said something?

Whooooosh

Others mocks OP much to their confusion

Why would anyone be mad over such a statement and how is that relevant to anything I said? 🤔

Lol.

Can you explain the joke?

That's just part of learning the Japanese culture. You'll get to it. It's funny how the simplest phrase that everyone gets is a cultural mystery for someone that wrote this whataburger of a post.

I've been living in Japan for nearly a decade at this point and I don't get the joke so clearly not everyone is clued into whatever you're on about. Could you explain the joke?

Good grief. In what basement have you been living for 10 years? Either you're trolling, or you need to revisit your connection with Japan big time.

Why can't you just explain the joke?

One user attempts to clarify OP's argument about being "fully Japanese"

I wrote directly on this topic. I understand that the post is long but why respond to it if you're not going to read it? It's not to an extent.

Yes, I have read your damn essay about this topic. As someone else said, you're using a lot of words to say little to nothing. Whatever dude, I was sharing my experience as a mixed individual. If a "hafu" is not fully accepted as one of their own in Japan, what makes you think you'll be accepted as a naturalized individual? There's so much you're missing by dismissing this issue by saying that if you assimilate perfectly, you're Japanese. Yes, that's true, but don't you ever try to dismiss the longstanding marginalization that mixed children face in this country. Oh what a glorious day it would be if what you're saying is the reality in Japan.

You're expecting that they will be accepted on the basis of their genetics. Nobody cares about their ancestry, they care about if they follow local social norms and can speak a common language. Do those things and you will be accepted.

I'm not even talking about genetics. I speak the language, I know and follow the social rules. Am I seen as one of them, aka "内" from 内と外？No. Because I am not "Japanese enough" to them. Your observation indicates that you have yet to understand the complex social relationship and group dynamics in Japan.

You specifically mentioned having Japanese ancestry, how is that not about genetics?

Another questions OP's terminally online-ness

Of course I have friends but they're just normal Japanese people so we don't talk about topics like foreigners getting mad and declaring that someone else will never be accepted.

So what's your problem then? This is getting a bit confusing.

My friends don't make statements like "you're not Japanese because you're [skin color]", redditors do.

Is race real, or just a reality?

Race isn't real, but racism is. A country can be obsessed with pseudoscience without the pseudoscience being real science.

I’ll just up and change my race then. And my gender and species.

People regularly change their race on legal documents for purposes such as college admissions because race isn't real. You can't change your gender or species because these are rooted in biology and are not social groups.

Why don’t you make a post on that next so even more people will hate you

Finally, a redditor just thinks OP is trolling much to their chagrin

You literally called non-native speakers dogs and you're accusing me of trolling?

Show me where I called non-native a dog 🤡

In your comment about the dogen thing

quoted comment of a video by Dogen This? You really must be smoking crack here 🤡

And to round it off, a comment that takes a shot at OP (and me)

ね

It seems that continues to deliver for periodic drama, I hope it never changes. There are more snippets of slapfights in the main thread. Flair is a bit sparse with the long-winded arguments, but some good ones are "My friends don't make statements like that, redditors do", "you're using a lot of words to say little to nothing", "they hate themselves because they want to be ethnically Japanese", , and .

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

[New Update]: AITA for wanting to be intimate with my wife?

Previous

NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

Originally posted to

: November 2, 2023

I (m28) dated my wife let’s call her Rina (f26) for 3 years before we got married and during that time, she made it known that she would like to remain a virgin until our marriage. We both met in a religious event and are both church-going and religious, so this was not a problem. She is an overall wonderful person, the most caring, loving and sweetest wife I could ever have and not to mention beautiful as well. She takes care of me and even took some time off to care for my mother when she was in the hospital due to a car accident and has no problem with babysitting my sister’s kids (5,7) who love her very much. Everyone tells me how lucky I am and I feel the same.

We have been married for 4 months now and live together in my apartment. Her grandma had been sick for years and her dying wish was to see Rina get married before she passes. Rina is the only girl among 8 cousins so she was very special and close to her grandparents. Knowing this, I proposed to her as her whole family and mine have basically become one and it was a no brainer at that point. We got married in the courthouse within a week after knowing about the prognosis. We went straight to the hospital and had a small party there with her since she had a private room and the hospital staff allowed it. Sadly, she passed about 17 days later.

Later that night after getting to the hotel from the wedding, she tells me that she thinks we should wait until we marry in church because she considers this marriage legal but not anointed by God and is not right. We cuddle, kiss but then when it gets heated, she stops me midway and tells me the time will come and we will enjoy it. Our families are planning a big Church Wedding for us in April when we will be “fully yoked” but I don’t know how I could wait that long. It is terribly uncomfortable cuddling in bed with her and wanting to make love with her knowing I can’t.

She moved in with me in my 1 bedroom apartment a month after our marriage so it’s been 3 months now of cohabiting temporarily before we move to a bigger place. I feel we are in every way a married couple. Not newlyweds but more like an old couple because of a lacking in the intimacy department. We do groceries together, clean, cook, take care of each other except THAT. She says she believes our first time will be special since we will have it during our honeymoon in Spain right after the wedding. (We have both been a big fan of Spain)

Anyway, the other night we were watching a movie and started kissing that gradually ended up getting more heated. She stops me after some time and we had an argument because yes, I know I was wrong and didn’t control myself well. I guess I should’ve asked what marriage and sex really meant to her before proposing instead of assuming but I also think I’m being deprived of something so important in a relationship.

She didn’t speak to me for 2 days and just a while ago we had an honest conversation and have decided that she should move back to her parents until our actual church wedding in April. We originally thought living together since we were legally married would be a good start at knowing each other but I guess this is for the best. I still have this nagging feeling in my head.

AITA for wanting intimacy with my wife? Also, I never once forced myself on her, everything we do is consensual and I always stop as soon as she says NO because I respect her. I guess I’m just frustrated most of all and I wanna know if I’m an asshole for feeling this way.

Edit: Originally posted on but it got removed.

Edit 2: Thanks everyone for your feedback. I was reading everything and appreciate your points. I do want to point out that we are not getting divorced or annulled and I know I have no right to force her into anything. I just want to let out how I feel. Also like I mentioned in the comments, we would like a larger wedding although it takes longer to plan since her and my relatives are available in April and have already taken PTO. I will wait for her of course and I value her virtues and how strong she is with her principles.

We didn’t talk about sex before the courthouse wedding I guess because we both had differing assumptions on the relationship and despite her wanting the church wedding before we moved in, she offered to move in as a compromise since she knows what she’s asking is also not easy. I don’t think another small gathering is necessary because at this point, it will all be just for show and takes away the uniqueness of the church wedding and the feelings involved if we had too many wedding related events. I want her to feel special on that day because she is and to feel like how a bride does on that one special day. Legally though, she has started using my surname because she acknowledges we are married but that our church wedding will wed us in all ways.

We had the courthouse wedding but didn’t invite our minister because as I mentioned, we want the Church Wedding to be our big and special day only. What I meant by not controlling myself is my frustration, not necessarily my desires to take it further.

Also, her parents have never told us we had to wait or our church. They consider us married already. I guess for my wife and it’s more of the symbolism of marrying in church and for the honeymoon to be in every sense of the word. Having sex and then going on a honeymoon defeats the purpose and I also think it would be great to do it then. We fly to Spain the next day after the wedding and don’t think we would even have the energy for anything the night of the Church wedding. She is not asexual as well to clear things up. I know everyone doesn’t believe in abstinence or applying bible principles in life and I understand that but I request to please respect ours.

Right now, she will be staying with her parents but we are planning on talking more to a counselor as well as our minister if we could change any arrangements if needed about our thoughts on sex and our unique circumstance. Thanks!

Commentator asks OOP if he has discussed sex after marriage due to his wife’s beliefs

OP: Yes she is very honest and is actually very curious about sex and even talks about how this is a very spiritual connection. But she really would like us to be wed in the church and have our marriage be blessed.

November 13, 2023

It’s been a while since I posted about my situation with my wife and just want to give a little update. I talked to Rina the day after I posted it and talked about what exactly is holding her back and if she has any concerns, she could open up to me and talk about it like a married couple. If she even considered us one. She told me she had seen the post and had actually read a lot of the comments you guys posted and realized it stems from her feeling everything was so rushed and it was not how she expected to get married in her head and what comes after that. She wanted to make her Nana happy but at my expense. It dawned on her after our small party in the hospital how she didn’t feel ready for it because she didn’t “feel married”, thus letting me know later on that she wanted to wait. She has apologized about how she handled things and thanked me for being patient. I have done the same and we have been talking everyday although she still lives with her parents.

We changed our plans altogether and have decided to do an elopement and be married in Rome. We contacted a relative we have living there who set everything up from the venue, photographer and the minister. We decided on a little ceremony by the lake with just us, the minister, our relative and the photographer. We are leaving in a week and are very excited about it. And since we will be there, we’ll have our honeymoon in Spain right after as planned since it’s only a few hours away.

The April wedding will still push through for family and friends as more of a vow renewal/reception. We have informed them about it and they understand how our case has been very unique and are very happy and supportive regardless. Our elopement is simply a ceremony for the both of us not thinking about other people for once. We are already looking at a bigger apartment for us when we return from the trip so Rina could have her own working studio as my apartment is too small. Will be updating if we can after the trip as your input has really put things in perspective. Thanks for everything and it really did help us look deeper into the foundation of our principles and priorities.

----NEW UPDATE----

: May 7, 2024 (6 months later)

It’s been 6 months since I posted on this and just wanna give you guys an update. Rina and I finally had our beautiful church wedding last month. It was a sunny and warm day, she just looked stunning and it was better than anything we both ever imagined. Our families helped a lot in the wedding preparations and as I mentioned in the previous post, my wife did move out to live with her parents until we got married in church. We made sure to talk thoroughly about how we felt and if this was what she really wanted. We met every week and talked every night until the day we finally got married in church.

Mid February, there were talks and doubts about the relationship and if our expectations of marriage aligned and whether it was best to hold off on the wedding to see if we were indeed compatible and if our courthouse wedding was merely an “obligation” we had to fullfil for her nan before passing. It was a difficult month for us, we talked about her fears and she explains it was just that she has had this belief in her mind about keeping herself pure in her big day and it was purely hers alone and not her family or anybody else.

We did go through marriage counseling to help more in dealing with our situation. During this time, I moved to a larger place and found a better paying job and got busy. She started working from home and accompanied her brother who move to Japan to help him get settled, she was there for about 2 weeks and actually had a nice break. We both had a lot of time and it helped strengthen our relationship to be honest and to realize how much we really wanted to be with each other.

We just got back from our 2-week honeymoon to the number 2 in our bucket list- New Zealand! We originally planned to go to Spain but we decided to change itineraries since we plan to travel to Europe in the future so Spain could wait. It was a wonderful but very exhausting and costly trip but so worth it. We drove in a camper van and stayed at campgrounds every night under the stars. Hiked a lot and basically just spent time together enjoying nature. And yes, for everyone waiting for an update, we had our first intimate moment there. The first time was pretty uncomfortable for her (we were also in a van so not the most pleasant place) and she still has this thing where she can’t stop overthinking every time we are doing it haha. We are getting better at it though and have actually slowly learned each other’s wants and dislikes. She actually initiates it from time to time and it made me happy but also relieved that she has urges to do it and letting me know.

Her family moved her stuff to my new place while we were on vacation so it was a relief not to have to move stuff again after a long exhausting trip and just be able to rest after coming home. Jet lag is still really bad but just thought of writing this now while my wife is sleeping next to me. We are both scared for the future as newlyweds but also excited for our little family. Rina and I hope to have kids in the near future but for now, we have decided on becoming fur parents first and looking into shelters once we are fully settled.

She has also read the post I wrote before just recently and found the comment about having sex and skydiving to be hilarious and she is quite “curious” about us doing it lol. If that does happen, that’s a whole post by itself!

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP