I am not OP. That is who posted to and who posted to

May 18th, 2024

I (26M) proposed to my (24F) girlfriend of 6 years last month. She obviously said yes and we’ve been working on wedding details (ex: save the dates/invitations, venue, caterer…etc) since. We got to talking about who we would want in our wedding because she wanted to do a special “proposal” to her side of the wedding court, and she said she wanted to have her best friend since childhood be her “maid” of honor.

The thing is, her childhood best friend is a guy (24M). They lived on the same street when they were kids and have been friends since. My fiancée and I met in college and her friend was there too, so I’ve known him for as long as I’ve known her. At first I didn’t really like him because he was always hanging around her, but after she and I started dating and I was forced to be around him more I kinda started to tolerate him.

He and my fiancée saw each other a lot, but he and I have never really hung out one-on-one before. One time when we were left alone together he tried to get all tough and did the “if you ever break her heart i swear…” corny threat talk. He’s a small dude so it made me laugh more than intimidate me. After that I got the feeling this was a situation where he liked her but she didn’t know.

I asked my fiancée if she and him ever had feelings for each other, and she said no, then let me know he was gay. I’m not homophobic or anything, so it’s not like I don’t want him in the wedding because of that, it’s just that I think it would be better if her side of t party was all girls. She and him already did everything together, not including him in our wedding wouldn’t hurt their friendship.

I told her that and she got defensive, saying that if I could have a girl in my side of the party (the girl being my older sister who practically raised me), she could have a guy. I said that it was a different circumstance, and that I wouldn’t allow her best friend to be her man of honor. She got really mad and said it was her wedding too, then stormed out. I got a text from her sister a few hours later saying she had gone to her parents house and told them what I had said.

They thought I was being an asshole because I never liked her friend and am threatened by him. I have tried to talk to my fiancée since she left but she hasn’t returned my calls or texts. I really love her, and I don’t want to loose her. I just dont want her best friend to be a part of our day. AITA?

edit: It’s come to my attention in a previous comment I made, I have created the worlds thinnest argument. I said that my fiancée made was unwillingly to compromise on things such as the groomsmen’s neck pieces and blazers, and as such I was in the right to be unwilling to compromise about her best friend. I stated in a few other posts that there were other things she didn’t want to compromise on, and someone suggested I make a list so here it is:

1.) When we were deciding our wedding date and location, she wanted to do it in spring in an open field. I wasn’t onboard with this as I have terrible allergies and spring is when it’s at its worst. She shot down any alternative I gave her (alternatives being things done closer to summer or in summer) and said it was Spring or nothing. So we went with spring

2.) Instead of going with a DJ like I suggestion who could play a mix of her favorite, my favorite, and general upbeat dance music, she said that she really wanted a live band that specialized in her favorite genre. I asked if we could just give the DJ a longer list of her songs in her favorite genre and tell him to pick from the list often, but she said no and that a live band was going to be better. So we went with the band

3.) In my culture there is a few traditional wedding ceremonies that I wanted us to partake in. Some included a kind of “parade” that leads the groom and his family to the brides house where they present her and her family gifts, a hair cutting ceremony (I made sure to tell her her actual hair would NOT be cut), and finally a knot tying ceremony where the guests wish us a long happy marriage. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with these ceremonies, and said they would be too much time and effort, since it would be like having two weddings. I tried fighting for these more than the others, but she was firm on doing things traditionally.

4.) She wanted the groomsmen to wear bow ties and blazers even though I wanted the necktie and no blazer look

5.) She changed the color scheme from the originally agreed upon black, gold, maroon, and forest green to pink (or i think it was rose), yellow, white, and pastel blue because the decorations would look better in the field. When I said we already printed invitations with the previous colors on them, she said we could throw those out and get reprints.

Added Comments

Commenter

I really hope this is a rage bait post. To not be able to see the hypocrisy in having his sister (whom he’s known his whole life) on his side, but DEMAND that she not have her male best friend of decades on hers is absolutely insane. If I were the fiancé, I’d call the whole thing off because OP’s empathetic skills are clearly nonexistent.

OP

The difference is I’d be having legitimate family in my party. Somebody who, like I said, has practically raised me and has been there for me since birth who I want by my side. I know you can argue that her and her best friend are “technically” family with how long they’ve known each other, but that doesn’t actually make them family

Commenter

It’s her wedding as well so he is family to her. Don’t worry. You won’t have a fiancé anymore at this rate

OP

he’s not legitimate family, so it really doesn’t count. he can be included in her family section of the guests that doesn’t matter. but breaking it down and splitting the hairs, he’s not biologically family

Commenter

YTA. It’s obvious that you have a huge chip on your shoulder about your fiancé’s best friend just because he’s a guy, so now you’re using this “girls only” thing to get him out of the way. Also, “girls?” You’re not in high school going to prom. You’re getting married. They’re women. You’re sexist and jealous and seem way too immature to be getting married. I hope she sees you for what you are and gets away from you

OP

I don’t understand why everyone so hung up on my verbiage. Aren’t women also girls? Are they not one and the same? I’m not trying to get him out of the way for any sexist reason either. It’s just more traditional if she chooses all women to which she agreed upon in the past. She only started thinking about having him in her party after I said I wanted my sister

Commenter

Then why are you not traditional and picking only men for your party. Hypocritical much? Insecure and prob lost your fiancé. YTA

OP

i’m breaking the tradition for someone who is family. someone who has a right to be up their with me on one of the best days of my life

OP

if she had a brother and wished for him to be her man of honor i would agree in a heartbeat. breaking tradition for family i can understand but breaking it for a friend is a little much. im just not comfortable with that

May 19th, 2024

I (24F) was recently engaged to my (26M) fiancé after 6 years together. We got into a fight a couple of days ago because he wouldn’t let me ask my guy best friend (24M) who I’ve known since we were kids, be my man of honor. I ended up walking out and went to stay with my parents for a few days. I told them what happened and they agreed that he was way out of line.

I went back earlier today after I thought he had enough time to calm down and when I came home he looked glad to see me. He apologized for stepping out of line and I said it was fine and that we still had time to ask my best friend to be in the wedding. He kind of looked down then said that we should call everything off. This really surprised me and I immediately said no.

He then admitted that while I was gone he posted to about what had happened and that even though he was deemed the controlling AH, he also realized that I was one because I had basically hijacked the wedding planning. I asked how he could think that and he pointed out how I chose to have the wedding in spring even though that’s a bad time for him and that I changed up the wedding color scheme and what his groomsmen would be wearing without talking with him first.

I said that those were practically minor things and we didn’t have to call off the wedding for it. Then he said I was insensitive for rejecting his cultures traditional wedding ceremonies and didn’t even considering doing them. He had brought to my attention some traditional ceremonies people do at weddings in his culture, and while I appreciated him bringing it up to me, I decided against doing it because it wouldn’t fit the vibe of the traditional wedding I wanted.

I told him I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding and that he already agreed with me that that’s what we were doing. Then he said that me having my guy best friend be my best man was untraditional. I pointed out I let him have his sister be part of his wedding party because he wanted some part of his family included, and that since he was breaking the tradition so could I.

He got really sad and looked like he was about to cry and said that me breaking the tradition was like a slap in the face after I rejected his traditions, and that I just didn’t respect his culture at all. That is not the case at all I greatly respect his culture. I told him I understood how mean it sounded but it’s my wedding too so I get a say in what we do. He kind of laughed and got up and said he wanted to take a break and left.

I dont know what to do I don’t want to call off the wedding at all. I tried to find his reddit post but I think he was using a throw away, though granted I am too. I love him so much and I want to be with him for the rest of our lives. I don’t know how we’ll get through this.

Added comments

Commenter

I don't know if you two are compatible

OP

Up until this point I would have disagreed with you. When we met in college we were studying the same thing so we crossed paths often. We became friends and found we have a lot in common in terms of interests and lifestyle, and we had a great relationship up until the proposal. We’ve talked about marriage before and we seemed to be on the same page about a lot of things. I don’t know where it changed

Commenter

sounds like you are controlling and you. brushed off his complaints as no big deal. If the date, groomsmen outfit and color scheme are minor details, than they shouldn’t have been changed. Disregarding his family traditions is a major detail and if you are willing to disregard them for a wedding, how does he know you won’t for other events? The wedding is one day, if you don’t let him have a say in that, he’s right to take a break and reconsider.

OP

I understand where you’re coming from. I’ll be honest and tell you that I haven’t celebrated a lot of his cultural events besides New Years (he’s Cambodian and they celebrate their New Years in April I believe). He and his family had a falling out after he started dating me (his family didn’t approve of a foreigner), and only recently have they reconnected. His sister though was different she didn’t care I was American, and she stuck by his side as his only family member.

I guess I disregarded the traditions in the first place because he never immersed me in his culture enough because he kind of cut ties with that side of himself. I was uncomfortable with the idea of being surrounded by his family that doesn’t particularly like me during the ceremonies, as both his parents and my parents would be involved. I didn’t want to feel like an outsider on our wedding day

Commenter

I think your ex is right. You haven’t considered his preferences and in fact you minimize his requests (calling them “practically minor”) and aren’t respecting his cultural traditions. It sounds like you’re more interested in a wedding than an actual relationship and marriage.

OP

Of course I’m interested in the wedding. I’ve been dreaming of my own since I was a child. But I don’t value it more than I value my relationship with him. We didn’t get that far into the planning but for our honeymoon I was going to suggest going somewhere he and I have always talked about going to. We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be acdepted

commenter

Babes, you literally chose your wedding over your fiance. You broke up because of plans for the wedding. You broke up because you couldn't compromise anything you wanted for anything he wanted. 

You chose the wedding over the marriage. 

commenter

I read his post yesterday and yours today... YOU BOTH SUCK. I think he wouldn't have put up the stink about your male best friend being in your party if you hadn't been so controlling, but that's moot because you're incredibly controlling and don't understand/care.

You are selfish and self-centered. You seem to think only your tastes and desires matter for your wedding, forgetting that your groom is a person and not just a prop at your wedding. The fact that you even say "let him include his sister" is grounds to break up with you in my opinion.

Neither of you are mature enough to marry from the little bit you have each written. In both of your posts you both sound fairly unpleasant to be around but you are definitely the harsher of the two. He's a whiner and you are Attila the Hun. Both of you need to grow up and learn what's actually important in life: how to grow together.

Don't get married, mature first.

OP

do you happen to have the link? i’d like to read what he said

OP was linked to the original post and the amithedevil post

I am not the original poster. Please don't contact or comment on linked posts

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

- 18th May 2024

- 20th May 2024

AITA for never telling my Mother I married into money?

I (34F) have a difficult relationship with my Mother, she had me when she was 17 and was addicted to various substances when I was growing up. She'd leave me with whoever would watch me for days on end and i'd end up mostly raising myself. I left home at 16 and couch surfed with various friends until I was able to get my own place. At 25 I met my now Husband and we got married three years later.

His family is the polar opposite of mine and are incredible, so loving and warm, I honestly consider his parents mine and call them Mum and Dad. They also happen to be quite well off but that isn't something I care about, I mention it because it matters to the story.

Last year my Mother reached out to me after a decade of not speaking to her wanting to reconnect and introduce me to my little sister who was 2 years old, I was confused as I hadn't even known she'd been pregnant, but it seems she'd been a change of life baby. I thought maybe she'd turned over a new leaf and if not I wanted to make sure the kid was ok. At first it seemed like things had changed and she was trying, this illusion lasted for the first few visits over six months then she broke down, told me she couldn't do this, and asked me to take my sister.

My husband and I had a long talk about it, we'd been struggling with fertility and had been considering adoption anyway. We told her if we were doing this we were doing it right, and we had his families lawyer ensure it was a legal adoption and airtight which took several months, My in-laws adore her and consider her their Granddaughter. They've even set up a trust-fund for her.

We have allowed My Mother one supervised visit per month so she's not totally cut off from my sister but it was during these visits things went badly as she saw how she was dressed and the toys she had, and realised they were expensive. She began to rip into us for hiding the fact we have money and how if we'd just given her money she'd have not given us my sister as she could have taken care of her better.

I told her while we have some money its mostly my husbands parents money not ours so she had no right to know about it, also that I wouldn't have given her money anyway as I didn't trust her. She broke down calling me a selfish bitch who'd never considered how hard things were for her.

I now feel some guilt, my Husband has told me if I want to make me feel better he'll give her money but that seems like a bad idea as she'd likely use it badly or blow through it then expect more. Despite this though I do feel bad, maybe I should have tried to help her more now my luck is better, or maybe I should have been honest with her. AITA for keeping this from her?

Comments

Dependent-Aside-9750

NTA. If hubby wants to pay for something, it can be a treatment program for Mom to get the help she needs, but youare mist definitely NOT the ahole. Mom is trying to manipulate.

OOP: I tried many times to try to get her to get clean over the years before I cut off contact, she had no interest and I don't think that has changed at all if I thought that she'd even consider it i'd be having him do that if he truly wants to spend money on her.

Dependent-Aside-9750

Yeah I'm not surprised. It will shut down her whining pretty quickly, though, if that's all you're willing to pay for.

PKripper73

Don't give her a Penny, she'll come back for more, and you know she will deep down.

OOP: Yeah I do, I want to help her despite how she was with me growing up but I know that's not the right way to go about it, just this has brought up a lot of old feelings I thought long gone and guilt.

mrmayhem8100

Your mom doesn't want the money so she can take care of your sister. She just realized she lost her chance at a free meal ticket before she gave her up for adoption

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 2 days later

I got some really good feedback from my post and it led to my Husband and I staying up most of the night discussing what we wanted to do and a decision was reached. It wasn't an easy one but we have a child to think of now and she has to come first.

We blocked my Mother on every social Media, we changed our phone numbers and we reached out to the family lawyer to get in contact with her to inform her that all visits have been stopped after how she spoke to me in front of my sister. She has to get clean for at least a year with weekly tests if she wants to see my sister again. My Mother can contact our family lawyer if she needs help with the tests but beyond that she gets no help from us unless she wants to go to rehab which we will pay for, directly to the rehab not her.

My Husband, Sister and I have also moved in with my In-Laws for the time being as my Mother knows where we live. We will be looking for a new place and my In-Laws are aware of the situation and that we are cutting all contact for now. Honestly my In-Laws are delighted to have us staying with them, when we arrived the guest room my sister is using for now had an army of Squishmallows on the bed they are her current obsession and my FIL makes sure to bring a new one each time he sees her I always think she must have them all now and each time i'm wrong, how he keeps track of what she has and doesn't have I don't know as he never buys doubles.

We are settling in well, we are even planning a small Holiday with just my Husband, sister and I to get away from the stress we've been under, nowhere abroad as she doesn't have a passport yet but we'll be fixing that soon as we want to take her to Lapland for Christmas.

All in all we're doing alright though I admit I am feeling very conflicted and guilty over this even though I know it's the right choice it just doesn't make it easy.

Thank you all so much for your comments, and advice on the original post.

Comments

Efficient-Tax-8398

Really uplifting update. Thank you. I wish you and your family well.

dougan25

Husband's family sounds like amazing people.

xomiranda

Grandpa is my favorite. Not only getting her a squishmallow every time, but keeping track of what she already has! These men love that little girl. It makes my heart happy.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My wife is addicted to the gym and it’s ruining our marriage

Originally posted to &

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, physical violence, anger management issues, emotional manipulation

Feb 1, 2024

My wife is 30 years old and she’s always worked out and been in shape, but lately I feel like it’s becoming excessive.

She used to regularly work out at a gym when she was in college. At some point she stopped going to the gym, I think lately just due to her schedule, and preferred to work out at home or go for runs outside.

About 18 months ago she announced she was going to get back into the habit of going to the gym. She now had a job where she’s able to make more time for it. It started off normal, but slowly became more and more frequent. She signed up for classes on the weekend (both days), she started going to the gym every day, then it became the morning before work and then again later in the evening. Every single day. If she’s stressed, she goes to the gym. Experience some sort of life crisis. She immediately heads to the gym. We have an argument - runs to the gym.

She’s 4 months pregnant right now. I’m kind of surprised we even had time to make a kid. I understand that it’s safe for her to work out, especially since she was already in the habit of doing it before she got pregnant, but the intensity is not slowing down.

If she misses one of her normal gym session she becomes so irritable, like a junkie not getting her fix. It’s just bizarre. Truly a case of too much of a good thing.

Of course she gets upset when I voice that I feel it’s becoming an unhealthy obsession and that I miss spending time with her because she’s there so much. She has all of these friends and this whole circle of people there that she seems to prefer spending time with over me. Why don’t we work out together at the gym? The gym is her time, she says. This isn’t a case of me feeling insecure because she’s in great physical shape and I’m a fat slob. I work out and am in shape - my job really requires me to stay in shape so I can’t let myself go if I want to.

I genuinely feel her gym habits are unhealthy. She’s over exercising, for one. There is such a thing. But worse than that, I feel it’s becoming a way for her to escape everything else in her life. She never actually fixed anything that goes wrong in her life. She just runs off to the gym to get some sort of mood boost and then that’s it. She also never gets anything else done in a practical sense because how can she when she’s at the gym so often? It’s to the point where I have to do every chore and if food is getting made I’m going to have to do it. I don’t expect her to do all of those things, but it should at least be a shared effort.

People we know have even commented about it to me. They’ve said things about how she seems different, how she “sure is at the gym a lot,” and many of her friends and family barely see her anymore. Some have even suggested she’s having an affair with somebody there.

Please tell me that this doesn’t sound normal to you. She insists this is perfectly normal.

Feb 11, 2024

I posted not very long ago about my wife’s addiction to the gym. A compulsion, if you will. She spends most of her free time there. She often goes twice a day, and sometimes even 3 times if we have a fight at night and she needs to run off instead of actually talking to me.

She won’t let me go to her gym and she refuses to go to mine. Her gym is her place, my gym is my place, and that’s just the way it has to be according to her. I’d love to have her come along with me. I’ve invited her multiple times.

She’s about 18 weeks pregnant right now. This is our first baby. She worked out like crazy prior to the pregnancy and she continues to just as hard now.

I truly didn’t think she was cheating on me. People suggested it in the last thread and I laughed. You can tell she’s at the gym a lot, she’s in great shape. So she’s obviously going there. I felt really confident about the cheating issue and when I posted 9 days ago I wasn’t even considering cheating.

I’m embarrassed to admit that after reading a lot of the comments on my last post, I thought maybe I was being overly confident about her fidelity. She usually always has her phone on her, but she left it in the kitchen counter and as stupid as I felt, I decided to do a quick swipe through her texts. She had a current text conversation going on with a guy. I recognized the name. The same name of a guy from the gym she mentions a lot. She’s friends with a lot of people there, went to one of their weddings last fall. I wasn’t too terribly concerned until I started reading the texts. Never wanted to know what the guy’s dick looked like, but I know now.

She was only out of the room for literally about a minute or two, so I had to scroll fast. I was furious. I asked her what the fuck that conversation was about. She started yelling at me for looking at her phone. I told her she’s acting so weird and the gym obsession was really bothering me so I just decided to look, and was ashamed that I did, but that’s I thought I’d find nothing all. She said “it’s nothing! It’s nothing!” Didn’t look like nothing to me. She sure seemed pretty interested in this “nothing.” I wanted to know if she’s been fucking him. For how long? She kept saying no. I left the house because I was so furious, but not before I slammed her phone on the ground and shattered it. She was calling me all sorts of names for breaking her phone. She hit me on the back as hard as she could. I left. Went to my brother’s house. My brother and sister in law were shocked, although my sister in law was one of the most vocal ones about my wife’s gym obsession being weird and bringing it up to me constantly.

I went home. She was in bed crying. She obviously couldn’t call me or anyone else for that matter. She was laying it on thick, “I don’t know if you’d ever come home.” Give me a break.

I took her phone to get repaired tonight. She doesn’t deserve it but I still feel like an ass breaking her phone.

I still don’t know how deep it goes. She won’t admit to anything beyond what I saw. Was it sexting (bad enough) or more? I’m convinced it was a lot more, but she refuses to hand over her phone and is now trying to act like I’m this terrible monster who is abusing her because I broke her phone. Not my proudest moment, but I honestly wanted to body slam her after she punched me. I have never and would never actually touch her like that.

Feb 12, 2024

Not sure if posting something in my profile will be seen by anyone, but I don’t feel like making another update in a subreddit.

Today my wife asked me to stay home from work so we could “talk.” She laid in bed all day yesterday trying to get me to feel sorry for her, but I paid absolutely no attention to her and ended up leaving the house to go to my family’s Super Bowl party. I wasn’t in the mood to go but I wasn’t going to sit at home with her. It really bothered her that I left. She kept texting me things like “Who just leaves like that? When something like this is happening, who is that cold and callous that they just leave to go to a party.”

I stayed home today to talk to her. She was full of tears, she’s “so sorry.”

According to her, she really was going to the gym twice a day because she likes going there, that’s where her friends are, makes her feel good, it’s “fun” for her. She met this guy there and he started flirting with her. Everyone likes him. He’s one of the most popular guys there. I didn’t realize there were popular people at gyms.

She admitted that she flirted back but didn’t mean anything by it. She didn’t reciprocate very much at first, but he gave her “butterflies” and she just found herself flirting back without thinking. She said it felt like when she had a crush on somebody when she was in school when she was younger. They started texting. At first it was just friendly and nothing sexual for several months, but she’d feel giddy every time she got a message from him. She was really attracted to him, but told him that she was married and there could never actually be anything between them.

According to her, he kept flirting with her anyway and said “sure, we won’t cross the line.” Until they did cross the line. She said she had tried to resist it for a while, but then one day they kissed. She admitted to enjoying it but also feeling that it was wrong. She must not have felt that bad because she slept with him for the first time later that night.

She described it like falling in love with somebody for the first time. All she could think about what him. Is she in love with him? She doesn’t know.

Is this baby mine? She thinks so but there’s always a small chance it could be his. He always uses a condom so she doesn’t think it’s his baby but they were sleeping together at the time she got pregnant.

She loves me. She can’t help that there’s just this huge spark between the two of them.

She doesn’t know if she loves him. She doesn’t know if the baby is mine. She doesn’t know why she did this. She doesn’t know what she thinks we should do.

The nail in the coffin is when she said “You would really leave me if it’s not your baby would you?” She had the balls to ask me that. I told her of course I’m leaving her and I wouldn’t raise another man’s child. She seemed shocked. She said “really? With everything we have and all our history, you wouldn’t even consider it?” She can’t be serious. I told her no I would never consider it.

She agreed to get a DNA test. She tearfully agreed, like I’m supposed to feel sorry for her about it?

I don’t know who this woman is. She was crying the whole time, but not tears of an ashamed or sorry person. They were tears for herself and meant to try to make me feel bad. Feel bad for what? That her heart is apparently so torn?

RELEVANT COMMENTS/ADDITIONAL INFO

OOP

She’s ruined my life, but I just feel numb right now. I barely feel anything at the moment.

It would have been bad enough for her to have an affair and cheat on me. But she couldn’t have stopped when she found out she was pregnant? At least I could have walked away if it wasn’t for this pregnancy. Maybe a still can, but I won’t know for sure until I get some test results. She’s almost positive the baby is mine. Im stuck dealing with her forever then. My child will grow up with divorced parents. Their mom will be the gym bike. Maybe she’ll even take off to live near her family and take my kid with her. Oh but then she couldn’t be near the guy who gives her butterflies and fucks her in gym changing rooms. The thrill, the excitement, how can I even blame her?

She’s ruined fatherhood for me, whether this is my kid or not. If by some chance this isn’t my baby and I’m able to completely break free, how will I not think of this one day when I start a family? I was so fucking happy to have this baby with her. I was really excited, even though we hadn’t planned for it right now. We have names picked out. I’ve been there for everything and now she does this to me. Not only me, but this poor kid regardless of who their father is.

~

OOP

She’s saying “I’ll never go back to the gym again. I’ll never talk to him again.” But she can’t say whether she’s in love with him or not? What kind of idiot does she think I am?

TTIsurvivors

She still thinks there is hope to save your relationship? Jesus Christ.

OOP

Yeah, I believe she still thinks there’s a chance I’ll agree to raise another man’s child with her. She doesn’t take me seriously when I say there’s no way I’d do that. She is dependent on me. She probably wouldn’t leave me if I knocked somebody else up and wanted her to play mommy. I know that sounds terrible and it’s nothing I’d ever do but I feel like she’d be mad and she’d go screw somebody else to get back at me but she probably would be too scared to actually leave me. I don’t feel the same way about leaving her. I’m sad to leave her. I don’t want this to be our reality. I can’t even say that I completely hate her yet. But I won’t raise another man’s child. If she feels so strongly about that guy and he’s so wonderful, go get together with him then and leave everyone else alone.

~

She was practically on her knees yesterday saying “I won’t go back to the gym. I won’t ever contact him again.” I feel like that doesn’t really mesh with the fact that she doesn’t even know if she’s in love with him or not. She obviously still has very strong feelings for him, which are probably coming more from between her legs than her actual heart but doesn’t really matter either way to me.

I think despite anything to do with him, she’s dependent on me in a way. For stability, maybe. Just out of comfort, maybe. We’ve been together since she was 20 years old, so I’m just this familiar person I guess. She has her gym friends out here but other than that she has no family or friends out here. She makes pretty good money, but I make more and all of our benefits are through me. Even with her good salary, it would be difficult to survive on her own as a single mom here with all of the daily living expenses, or at least live anywhere near the level she wants to live at.

~

Today is the day she was crying all night about how she’s ruined her life. She seemed genuine, like reality is hitting her, but I didn’t pay any attention to her at all. I just pretended she wasn’t there.

I did ask her if she’ll get blood drawn for a paternity test. I asked her to please not hurt me further by keeping me in limbo about that for months. She said she doesn’t want to.

OOP on if he got a lawyer and if he ever met the AP

I’m meeting with a lawyer next week and will see what they advise.

How can she parade me around when I’ve never been allowed to go to her gym? I’ve met two of the people, a slightly older married couple.

Yes, I met the AP. Last summer he called her because he was drunk at a bar and couldn’t drive home, so he called her to come get him. I didn’t think it was a good idea for her to go pick somebody up late at night, so I went with her.

I want her out of the house but I don’t necessarily want her to fly back home to where she’s from just yet. If this is my kid and she gives birth out here I’ll be in a much better position. If she leaves and goes home to her parents, she could very well be allowed to stay there and that would be considered the baby’s place of residence.

She missed a few days of work, but she has gone to work since all of this happened. She was having a meltdown this morning and I left for work. She told me had to go in late today and when she got there everybody was making her food and tea and stuff. She obviously didn’t tell them what really happened.

How long the affair was happening

She claims they’ve been sleeping together since the summer. Thats just what she claims, of course.

Feb 22, 2024

My life has been reduced to a trashy daytime talk show.

The woman who was once my wife, who I considered a classy woman, has turned into complete trailer trash.

Today she announced that she’s moving in with her affair partner from the gym. She’s pregnant, might be his kid, might be mine. She’s too embarrassed to go get blood drawn for a paternity test.

She spent about a week trying to get my attention, to get me to talk to her, to get me to beg her to be mine. I didn’t fall for any of it. I’ve largely been ignoring her and when we have to speak I keep it very brief. We’ve been living together this whole time, but I’m in a different room now and functioning separate from her in all ways.

So, her pouting and trying to get me to pay attention to her and give her a gold star for not going to the gym for 5 days in a row didn’t work. Today she texted me to say she is moving in with him.

Somehow I still care about this person. I’ve already met with a lawyer though. I can care about her as a human being and possible mother of my child without being married to her. Still, it stung to hear her say she was going to be with him. I told her it wasn’t a smart move to leave the house. I’ve even told her she should probably meet with a lawyer. She doesn’t care about anything I have to say. I don’t think she needs to move in with anybody. I actually feel bad for her that she can’t just be on her own.

I asked her if he actually knew she was pregnant and wanted to know what story she’s been telling him this whole time. She said he knows and he doesn’t care if it’s my baby, he loves her and wants to be with her. Bizarre. You can’t find anyone else? Somebody who isn’t a married, pregnant woman? Why would you take that on? Doesn’t make sense to me. He’s scum but he’s good looking scum who apparently is gainfully employed and owns his own home, so you can’t tell me that my married, pregnant wife is your only option here. I just can’t imagine being a single guy like that and wanting to put up with this baggage when I could have other options.

And if this really is my baby then what? They’ll live with my wife and this weasel 50% of the time?

I don’t know how my life turned into this mess. And she thinks it’s embarrassing to have to go get blood drawn?!?!

Feb 29, 2024

My wife moved in with her AP last weekend. She didn’t take very much at all. Most of her stuff is still in our house. I still get the feeling she was just waiting for me to beg her to come home, but I didn’t reach out to her at all after she left.

It was a strange mixture of relief, anger, and sadness. I don’t think I ate at all until last night. Just never felt hungry. Drank a little too much. But I’m fine.

I’m posting this update because I’ve received a ton of messages from people and honestly it’s emotionally draining to respond to each one and to have to type the same stuff out. I just don’t feel like talking about her that much.

So this morning she texted me to say her AP wants to get a DNA test done, so she’s going to do it. Look at that, didn’t matter when I wanted one but now that he has requested it she suddenly thinks it’s a great idea. She asked if I wanted to submit a sample because it’ll be cheaper to have 2 dads tested as part of one package. I don’t even care about the cost at this point, I just want an answer.

I don’t have to see or interact with them at all. I just have to make my own appointment with the lab to get my cheek swabbed. So this Saturday I’m going to do that and we should have the results within a week.

I’ll take what I can get at this point because it’s better than her dragging this out for another 20 weeks.

So that’s it. I’m fine. I’m going to work every day. Trying to function. Just feel stuck in limbo. I miss her. Honestly, I hate that she’s there with him. It makes me sick. Part of me does want to beg her to come home. It’ll be even worse if I find out that it’s my baby and she’s there with him. Unless he drops her at that news. I won’t let myself beg her. I won’t play any of those games with her.

RELEVANT COMMENTS/UPDATES

March 8, 2024

TTIsurvivors

Have you gotten the paternity test results?

OOP

At 11:00 this morning I got the news that I’m the father. I feel incredibly conflicted right now.

jacobe_bryant8

Is she asking to come back home? Or is she still planning on staying with the other guy? Regardless this is a rough situation I’m sorry for you bro.

OOP

We haven’t talked.

jacobe_bryant8

Understandable but I think that you should try and set up a meeting with her somewhere public to discuss the pregnancy and the future in general with her. Whether or not your marriage is going to end the kid is still going to be a big part of your lives so it would be best to see where both of you stand in that regard. Also I recall you saying earlier that you think that your wife would listen to what her affair partner would say to her (or something similar to that) so now that it’s not his kid I would be concerned about him pressuring her into getting a abortion. So I think you really should talk to your wife about your unborn child and whatnot.

OOP

We definitely need to talk, but I got the news in the middle of a work day so I wasn’t in the mood to have a full blown conversation with her. I think I need to sort of wrap my head around the reality of it all before I say too much to her anyway.

March 15, 2024

My wife has been having an affair with a guy she met at the gym for at least nearly a year. She’s around 22 weeks pregnant right now. She was somewhere around 17 weeks when I discovered she was cheating. She maintained that she was positive I was the father, but then refused to get a paternity test done to ease my mind.

We recently had a paternity test done (at the request of her affair partner) and it proves the baby is mine. It’s been very mixed emotions for me, very up and down. Originally I thought I just wanted to be completely done with her and not have any lifelong ties in the form of a full blown human being we shared, but I was sort of happy or relieved when I got the results. I’d already had it in my mind that I was going to be a father for months before I found out she was cheating. Sometimes I just have moments where I can’t believe this is my life, that this is the situation that my kid will be born into and I hate her for it.

She’s still living with him. All of her belongings are still here in our house. I refuse to do the work of packing everything up for her. She doesn’t seem concerned about taking any her things, beyond the essentials.

After we got the news that I’m the baby’s father, she texted me to say she’s glad I’m the father and that she knows I’ll be a great dad. She was texting me new baby name ideas last night. She’s tried calling but I ignore the calls. I only speak with her via text. This morning she asked if she could come by and get a few things. I told her it was fine, as I’ve been advised by my lawyer to not prevent her entry from the home, but I told her that he better not be with her.

So who shows up with her? The scumbag boyfriend. He walks right on into the house behind her like it’s no big deal. She ran upstairs to get the stuff she wanted and he and I were just left standing there in the living room. He told me it wasn’t her fault that he was there. She told him I didn’t want come but he forced his way along. He wanted to talk to me, supposedly, to tell me he “understand how I must be feeling.” No, you don’t know. He told me he knows I probably don’t believe him, but he genuinely loves her and knew he probably wasn’t the father. He accepts it and then tried to assure me he won’t try to take my place with the baby and hopes we can just get along since we’re both going to be in her life now. He “promises” that she’s fine, he’s looking after her. I told him that I couldn’t for the life of me imagine what he wanted with a pregnant woman who is having another man’s child, that I found it weird. Then I told him if he didn’t get out of my house I’d punch him. I went upstairs and she was trying to find somebody things in the bathroom. I got mad, asked her why she brought him along, and told her I find it really strange that he still wants to be with her now that he knows he has nothing to do with this baby - and that I refuse to let him have anything to do with my child. She said he talked her into coming and she’s sorry and never meant for any of this to happen but she’s in love with him now. He is supposedly what 30 year old her is looking for, not me. She’s setting up a nursery in his house and I can set one up at my house and she has no intention of trying to get full custody or anything like that. She doesn’t want to keep me from being involved in my child’s life. How generous of her.

She went back downstairs and I followed her and he was still standing there in the living room and I just walked up to him and punched him. He stumped back and fall into a table. She yelled “What the fuck?!” and ran over to him. I don’t even care at this point. As if he’s going to call the cops? He deserved it and it wouldn’t have happened had he just left like I told him to.

Several hours later she texted me to say she was sorry about today. He really meant what he said and he’s actually a good guy and he cares about her and he respect me. Wtf? He respects me?! He was screwing my wife in the gym locker room! I was like you can’t be serious. She said “Fine! I’m trying to have a mature conversation about this. I can’t help that we fell in love. Believe it or not, I’m not trying to hurt you and I want everything to be amicable.”

This guy stole my wife and he’s stealing my kid too. Sure I’m the actual father but now they’re setting up a nursery together in his house? I’ve tried to not feel jealous or sad. I’ve tried to maintain the thought that he’s the trash man who picked up my garbage. Sometimes I feel that way, but the truth is that I loved her, and still love her. I don’t want to stay married to her on principle alone, but this is devastating to me.

Apr 10, 2024

My wife? is basically 26 weeks pregnant now.

There actually hasn’t been much drama with her and her AP. I was away for a long weekend last week and it was nice to just get away from home for a while.

Only really annoying thing that’s happened is that I told her I’m being in the delivery room, not him. After everything she’s done, she owes me that. It’s not his baby. He has no right or reason to be there. I will not be the one waiting outside when my kid is being born.

She said yeah she agreed and she never planned to have him in there with her. I asked her if she’d told him that and she said no. I told her to tell him he’ll have no part in it. Well she told him and apparently he didn’t like that and he started trying to convince her why he should be there. Next thing I know she’s telling me that he really wants to be there and she’s the one giving birth so she should be able to say who she wants there and she wants him there. I suppose he’ll start making name suggestions soon and will try to overrule names we’ve had picked out for our future kids for years.

We’ve talked a little bit and she told me I can have our house and the dog in our divorce. I’m requesting that we sell the house and split the profit. I already that written in the paperwork. I’m not buying her out of our house - a house that I’ve made all the payments on anyway. I have a much better credit score than her and less debt. I compromised a lot because she liked this house. I’d rather be able to get my own place based just on what I want and with no reminders of her. And there was already no way she was getting the dog. I already had proof that I “owned” him though so she wouldn’t really stand a chance of having a court award the dog to her. It’s the one thing I told my lawyer I wanted above everything else (not including any custody issues surrounding my actual human child). Honestly, her AP can have her, but he will never ever have my dog. Not to mention my dog is 100 times more loyal than my wife and some might even say better looking too.

So with the idea I won’t be living here in this house for much longer after the baby is born (if everything moves quickly), I decided I will still prepare a nursery here anyway in case anyone wants to try to accuse me of not being invested/prepared for fatherhood. I’m trying to look at the positives. It doesn’t matter what colors she likes or what themes. I can do whatever I want. Honestly, we’ve been together for so long and have lived together for most of our adult lives. It sort of nice not living with somebody but sort of lonely too. I have friends and family, but it’s hard to feel in the mood to go out or hang out with people too often. They always ask me about everything that’s going on and it’s just like I’m tired of that being the topic of conversation.

I got a promotion at work, which financially would have been better had it happened after the divorce, but I’ll take what I can get.

I feel like I’m living in this limbo right now and a lot of what I do is always framed around “how will this affect me in the divorce?”

Admittedly I spy on them on social media sometimes. Guess I’m hoping to see he’s been in a motorcycle accident or something now that the weather is nicer. Hasn’t happened yet, but he’s starting a new company and once that’s up and running I can always get all my friends and family to leave 1 star reviews everywhere. Have to find ways to have a little fun.

Sorry that I don’t respond to a lot of messages or comments. Sometimes I just take big breaks from looking at Reddit since it can be depressing af.

Editing to add something I forgot. She told her family that we’ve split up and that she’s with this other guy now. Her sister reached out to me to say how sorry she was, her sister is a dumbass, that sort of thing. She told me that my wife was complaining about her AP. She the sex is over when he’s done and apparently he’s really selfish with sex. He doesn’t do extra little things for her that she’s used to me doing, like clearing the snow off her car in the morning and heating it up or offering to make her food after a long day. He doesn’t speak her “love language” and he hangs out with his friends too much. This made me so happy to hear. She’s secretly miserable and I find that absolutely delightful.

NEW UPDATE

May 19, 2024

I’m still alive. I’m mainly posting here because several people have reached out to me and were concerned that I’d taken my own life. No, I’m not on the brink of ending my life. I think I’m doing better than I have since all of this started.

Around the time of my last post, my story blew up and I was getting messages from people who saw it on TikTok and YouTube. I had to take a step back because it was a little overwhelming. I have over 100 unread messages here. I appreciate it but it was a little uncomfortable at the time, and I got to the point where I didn’t really want to talk about the situation with my wife and her AP anymore.

So as of today, our baby is due in less than 10 weeks. We’re in the home stretch now. I don’t feel prepared at all. All of this other stuff has just been so distracting.

I started working on a nursery. It’s not done yet, but I have the floor finished and the walls painted. My ex-wife was impressed with the color scheme and furniture I chose. She’s not legally my ex-wife yet but I’ve started calling her that. It sort of makes it easier.

I also packed up a bunch of her stuff. Originally I refused to spend my time packing up her things, but eventually just said screw it and started packing it. I’m at the point where it’ll just be easier to not see all of her stuff around here. Why did I leave it for so long?

She came over to get some of the boxes I packed up. She came alone. Things were fine between us. I loaded the stuff into her car. We didn’t argue. At one point she started to tear up and said she fucked up. I said yeah she did, but there’s no point talking about it now. She shit all over our marriage. She has her muscle bound asshole to go home to now anyway so who cares. She said “I know, but it’s not the same.” I told her nothing has been the same since she decided to fuck him the first time.

Supposedly he’s going to “let” me be in the delivery room when my baby is born. I didn’t even argue it when she said it like that, but inside I was boiling at the idea of him letting me be there for the birth of my child. She says she talked to him and he agreed it wouldn’t really be right to not allow me to be there. I’m going to take what I can get if it means being there for the birth of my child. I’m going to try to just ignore him for the time being. She was acting all sweet and laying on all of the “I really want you there. I really need you there” stuff and I know mentally I’m not in a place to be that cold to her when she starts acting that way. I’m trying to be indifferent more than anything else but it’s so hard when she’s actually around and starts looking at me a certain way and making me feel bad. She invited me over to see the nursery they have set up at his house. I’m not sure I can bring myself to go into another man’s house and look at the nursery set up for my kid.

I did ask her if she was truly safe there though. I don’t know why, it’s just been bothering me. As pissed as I still am, I don’t want to find out he’s mistreating her and I definitely don’t want my kid to be going into an unsafe household. I haven’t told her about anything her sister has told me. They probably won’t last but as of right now there’s a very good chance my newborn baby will be going home to his house. It kills me to think about. It’s almost soul destroying to think about if I dwell on it too long.

She says she’s fine. He genuinely loves her. He’s great with kids. He accepts that she’s having a baby and that this is part of the package. She insists it’s not weird because she wasn’t pregnant when anything started between them.

I asked her why she did it…why did she ever let anything start between them in the first place. She said “I don’t know.” Then went into “I don’t want to talk about this” mode and left pretty soon after. Typical behavior from her - just run away.

Overall I’m doing ok. I’m not sitting here depressed and drinking a bottle of scotch every night anymore. I mean on occasion, but for the most part no. I feel more used to my new normal now, and that’ll all change yet again pretty soon.

ADDITIONAL INFO

There is a draft of a custody plan now, but the court won’t approve anything until after the baby is born. Right now she’s in agreement but there’s plenty of time for her to change her mind (or for him to convince her to change her mind).

She plans to breastfeed, but with agreement that she’ll pump and the baby can drink from a bottle when not with mom. Everything I’ve read says a baby ideally needs to spend time with each parent frequently, without gaps that are too long in between, and it’s best if each parent is feeding, changing, bathing, etc. during their time. At this time she’s in agreement with all of this. I can say that she’s not said or done anything to indicate she wants to restrict my time with the baby, other than the whole delivery room thing. She seems to want me to be involved in that respect. I hope she sticks to her word. If not, I will be fighting it through legal means.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in and his user account

Ongoing as per OOP

3 updates - Long

content warning: sexual assault

mood spoiler : overall positive

- 17. Jan. 2023

- 19. Jan 2023

- 1. Feb. 2023

- 26th August 2023

- 23rd May 2024

My (37M) wife’s (34F) sister (29F) tried to kiss me and now my wife is spiraling. Help me.

Sorry for how long this is, tl;dr at the bottom. As the title says, my wife’s sister made a pass at me at a recent family gathering and I have no idea what to do. For context, I think my wife “Jenna” is absolutely gorgeous but she has some really negative body image issues. This is in large part because of her sister “Mary” who is very conventionally attractive, as opposed to Jenna’s more unconventional but (imo) striking beauty.

Mary was a successful model until a couple years ago and now works in the fashion industry. In our early days of dating when I would tell Jenna she’s beautiful, she would always say “just wait until you see my sister”. When I did finally meet her family, she would randomly press me for weeks to talk about her sister, whether I thought she was more attractive than her, etc. I always told her the truth, that I think Mary is attractive in a boring way, and that I think my wife is much more beautiful and interesting to look at. She wouldn’t let it go until I confronted her about how uncomfortable it made me and asked her what was going on.

This is when she told me that she always had a chip on her shoulder about her looks because of being compared with her sister growing up. They fell into the classic “smart one/pretty one” dynamic their whole lives. She also said Mary had a habit of being flirty with all of her exes, and warned me that it would happen to me eventually. She then started sobbing and begging me to not cheat on her with her sister, to which I forcefully said I would never cheat on her with anyone, let alone her sister. I’ve been crazy about my wife since day 1 and there’s literally no woman on earth who could come close to her.

I honestly didn’t believe her about the flirting at first, I assumed it was just an extension of her insecurity, but I was wrong. Whenever we get together with my wife’s family, Mary always finds ways to touch me and make little innuendos/comments about me or my body. It’s super uncomfortable for everyone, especially my wife, and I’ve called her out on it before. She’ll cool it for a while but eventually start doing it again. It’s been six years of this, and every time it happens my wife is upset for days and I have to do a lot of reassuring.

Onto the current problem. A few days ago we were at my MIL’s birthday party, and Mary asked me to help her grab some things from the garage. As soon as we walked into the garage, she turned and pressed me up against the door with her whole body and started trying to kiss me. I immediately pushed her off and asked her what the fuck she was doing. She started giggling and saying she was just “doing what we both have been thinking” and kept insisting “you know you want to”.

I told her she was out of her mind and ran out of there. I went straight to my wife and told her we were leaving. The whole ride home she was asking me what was wrong, I wasn’t sure whether to tell her because I knew how much it was going to hurt but I also thought Mary would probably try to spin it as me making a move on her so I knew I had to just say it. I told her everything and she cried the whole way home.

For the last several days Mary has been calling and texting my wife doing exactly what I thought she would do, even telling my wife that I said she (Mary) was “the hottest girl I’ve ever seen”, which I had to assure my wife a million times that I did not and would never say even though she believes my account of the situation.

She’s been a complete wreck the last several days, she’s hardly eating, she pulls away from my touch when I try to hug her or just hold her hand, she says she feels “hideous” and “disgusting” and I don’t know what to do. This is the lowest I have ever seen her, and it hurts to see how much she’s hurting. I have no idea what to do to help her heal from this. Reddit, what should I do?

Tl;dr: My wife’s sister tried to kiss me, and this is triggering deep-set body image insecurities for my wife. How do I help her?

Comments

Honest-Illusions

All family gatherings that include "Mary" must now be non-attendable. Your wife knows what an awful woman her sister is and hopefully the rest of the family does too. To be honest, your wife's sister is evil. You have reassured your wife of your love and faithfulness. Your wife is incredibly insecure about herself, so obviously a professional may be in order for her and yourself to talk to. You love your wife, so stand by her, and be there to support her.

OOP: My in laws definitely enable her behavior, she’s the golden child, they brag about her constantly (even though my wife is literally a neuroscientist). Their mom was a pageant queen and she was their dad’s much younger trophy wife. Honestly we may have to go no contact with all of them

Update - 2 days later

I got a few requests for updates so here it is. I first want to thank everyone so much for your advice. It was extremely helpful and gave me a lot to think about. I’m especially thankful for the folks that asked me how I was doing. I realized that I have literally never had a chance to check in with myself after these things happen, and I’ve actually been holding a lot of frustration and resentment about it all. I’ve been harassed for years and it has either been brushed off or it’s been eclipsed by the impact it has on my wife. I don’t blame her for it, but this has been a good lesson in me not burying my feelings for the sake of others, even for her.

I also want to clarify a couple of things that came up. Several people asked about how my wife’s family feels about all this, and I explained in a comment that her parents are toxic and treat Mary as the golden child, even though my wife is a freaking neuroscientist, amazingly talented musician, speaks three languages fluently and another two conversationally… my wife and her family are seriously the only people who don’t seem to understand how exceptional she is.

I remember meeting one of my wife’s family friends and talking to them about her research, and they said, “oh wow, her parents just told us she works at a university.” Whereas my parents literally introduce her as “the family genius” to everyone. It makes me so fucking angry to think about how her asshole family has stolen her shine her whole life. She’s literally a Renaissance woman but all they care about is looks and money.

Some folks asked me why I would ever put myself in a situation alone with Mary given everything she’s done. I have no good answers for that other than I never thought she would actually try to do anything. That possibility just didn’t exist in my head. I realize now that I should’ve seen this would happen eventually, and that I should’ve been less concerned with keeping the peace and more concerned with shutting Mary’s shit down before it escalated to this point. Hindsight is 20/20.

Anyway, onto the update. The night I posted, I told my wife that if she wanted to try to repair her relationship with her sister I would respect that, but that I don’t feel comfortable being around her for the foreseeable future. I said Mary has obviously been deeply jealous of my wife her whole life because she is a hollow, ugly person whose entire value has an expiration date while my wife actually has substance. I said that I think her whole family is toxic and has done nothing but put her down her whole life, but that only she can decide whether she still wants them in her life.

I also told my wife that while I don’t blame her for her emotional reaction, her insecurity is something that she needs to work on for our relationship to be healthy. What Mary did was sexual assault and she’s been sexually harassing me for years, but I have consistently put aside my own feelings about this problem because of how it affects her, and that has prevented me from getting the support that I need, too.

I told her that her reaction only serves to punish herself and me for her sister’s behavior, and there’s no reason to give her that kind of power. I also told her something that a commenter said that really resonated with me: the only people who have ever considered her second best are her and her family. Everyone else sees her for who she really is.

She was crying the whole time and agreed that she needed to go to therapy to work on her insecurity. We were able to find a therapist who specializes in body image/self-esteem issues to work with her individually, and we’re looking for a couples therapist too.

My wife sent a message to her parents and sister that explained exactly what happened and told them she would reach out to them if she ever feels ready to repair their relationship. We blocked all of them everywhere but Mary has of course been spamming my family and our friends with nonsense, claiming I attacked her, I’m a drug addict, I abuse my wife, all kinds of bullshit that thankfully nobody believes.

My wife is still down in the dumps but I can see that things are getting a little better. She’s eating and sleeping more and she’s cuddling with me in the mornings again which is nice. Now I’m planning a surprise getaway for us this weekend. We’re going to one of our favorite places and I’m going to wine and dine her and try to make her feel like the goddamn queen she is.

I want to thank you all again for your help. You really helped me understand the severity of the problem and again, thanks for helping me connect with my own feelings about all this. Y’all are the best.

Tl;dr: Wife & I are going to therapy. We’re going no contact with her family for the foreseeable future. I’m going to woo the hell out of my wife this weekend.

Comments

phenomenation

you’re an absolute legend. she’s found herself another genius who knows how to navigate life without infantile drama. i wish you both nothing but the absolute bestt

OOP: The only genius thing I’ve ever done is marry her. I’m a pretty average dude tbh so I have no idea how I snagged her. Sad to think her low self-esteem probably played a part but I do work hard to be a good husband every day

Update2 - 3 weeks later

So I guess my original posts got reposted onto TikTok and some other subs here on Reddit so I’ve been getting tons of messages asking for updates. It feels like things are mostly settled, and I’m really hoping this will be my final update.

First I want to say that I’ve gotten so many questions about who Mary is, and I’m just not going to say. Suffice it to say that she’s never been household name famous, but she made a living solely on modeling for about a decade from what I understand, so she must have been popular enough that fashion people might know her. I really don’t know how that whole world works. But imo it doesn’t matter how many names you drop, you’re not famous if you don’t have a Wikipedia page.

Also got lots of comments that (mostly) jokingly called me a simp, and I can’t argue with that. I totally am a simp for my wife. She’s the coolest. I hope you all find a love that makes you feel this way!

Okay, I think that’s it. Here is the actual update.

My wife loved the getaway weekend, we had a blast and by the end of it she said she felt like herself again. For a few days after we got back things were really quiet, so we were hopeful that Mary had finally given up, but I felt uneasy about it all.

Many of you warned me that Mary would try to interfere with my work and while I initially dismissed it, I figured I would reach out to my boss just in case. I’ve been working at the same company for almost 10 years and she’s heard me vent about Mary before so I didn’t have to explain too much. My boss just reassured me that she knows my real character and would let me know if Mary tried anything.

As you predicted, Mary did try to contact my boss a couple of days later, and the following is a recounting of what my boss told me. Apparently Mary said that I needed to be fired because I was a predator and claimed to have “proof” that I assaulted her. My boss said that was a very serious accusation to make and asked Mary to explain what proof she had. Mary claimed there was a camera that caught the whole incident, and my boss asked her to send the video.

Then Mary got flustered and said the police had it, so my boss asked her to send over a copy of the police report. Then Mary said it had a lot of private information in it, so my boss asked her to redact the private information and send it over. Then Mary said she didn’t feel comfortable with that, and my boss told her that she could not take action against an employee based on word of mouth from a stranger. Then Mary shouted at her about victim blaming and hung up.

Unfortunately that was not the end of it. Last Wednesday, Mary somehow sent an email from my personal email account with a dick pic (not mine obviously) to the entire office. My best guess is that I must have left my email logged in on one of my in-laws’ devices, she’s definitely not smart enough to actually hack me. And I know this is completely beside the point, but of course she chose the weirdest-looking dick I’ve ever seen. I played team sports all my life, I’ve seen a lot of dicks, and this was something else.

It’s honestly kind of funny to think about Mary Googling “gross penis” or something and sifting through hundreds of images to find juuuuuuust the right one. I had to apologize to everyone on staff and thankfully folks were surprisingly understanding. It’s actually been kind of a nice bonding experience with my coworkers, I honestly didn’t consider myself to be super well-liked in the office but it feels like everyone has been going out of their way to be kind to me and it means a lot.

Anyway, at this point it was clear we had to escalate things legally. I really wanted to avoid it but she forced my hand. My wife and I have a lawyer friend who helped us draft a cease and desist letter outlining her continued harassment and the material and emotional damage this is causing us.

My wife then sent a message to Mary and my in-laws with a copy of the letter and made it very clear that we would pursue criminal and/or civil proceedings if her harassment continued. My wife’s mom then called her crying and begged her to “just let it go” and “leave Mary alone”.

My wife calmly explained that Mary is the only person responsible for this whole situation, and that their parents have always enabled her awful behavior. She also said something she later regretted but I think was pretty badass: “Mary is going to stick you two in a nursing home and steal your money the minute she has the chance, and you deserve it.” After the way her mom reacted, my wife is firmly settled on cutting off her family completely.

This happened on Friday, and on Sunday Mary’s best frenemy “Anne” sent my brother a message on Facebook to say Mary is going to leave us alone and to please not sue her. I told my brother not to respond, then just sat and enjoyed the idea that Mary was out there somewhere freaking out about the potential of having to actually face the consequences of her actions. It must be such a strange feeling for her.

Since then, we haven’t heard a peep from the grapevine. It feels like things are finally starting to go back to normal. My wife is starting therapy next week and we’ll be starting couples therapy in a month or two; she wants to do some work on herself first. She’s also taking a short leave from work to rest and recharge. I’m so proud of her for standing up for herself with her family and finally putting her mental health and wellbeing first.

Thanks again for everyone who offered advice! This was a messy situation but it definitely would’ve been messier without your help.

Tl;dr: Mary tried to get me fired so we sent her a cease and desist. Now Mary’s running scared, she and my in-laws are out of our lives, and we’re doing much better without them. My wife is prioritizing her wellness and I am one proud simp.

Update3 - 7 months later

I forgot about this account completely until today and logged in to see so many comments and messages asking for an update. It’s honestly touching to see how many people care about this situation and want the best for me and my wife.

This will be a brief update, I don’t want to make this a regular thing and the original situation has resolved enough that I am hopeful this’ll be the end of the saga.

Mary and my in laws have pretty much left us alone. My MIL still tries to contact my wife every now and then but she’s made it clear to her family that if the first words out of their mouths aren’t “I’m sorry,” she isn’t interested in a conversation.

As you can see, the past six months have made my wife a BADASS. She has done some amazing work in therapy and her confidence is growing all the time. It’s not just with her family - she’s more comfortable asserting herself at work, with strangers, with friends, etc. She’s even stopped putting up with some of my shit! To be fair that “shit” is stuff like my leaving my socks everywhere around the house, but I’m seriously proud of her for telling me to cut it out.

I’m becoming a more responsible and supportive partner because she’s able to communicate her needs and expectations without feeling guilty about it. And I’m able to communicate things to her without intense emotions fully eclipsing the conversation. I didn’t mention this in my earlier posts, but my wife does struggle with rejection sensitivity even outside of her family.

Often if I brought up something that I felt needed to change, her emotional reaction to feeling like she did something “wrong” would be really intense and instead of dealing with the problem, it would become about regulating her emotions. Now my wife has really good coping tools that allow her to talk about the problem without thinking she is the problem.

And the biggest update… she’s pregnant! We have a baby girl due in February. I am shitting my pants with excitement. We are going to love her so much and teach her that she is more than her beauty. She’s going to have happy parents who love each other and work through issues as a team. The toxic cycle will be broken.

Jenna’s family doesn’t know and she’s not sure if/when she’ll tell them, but if she does there are going to be strong boundaries in place for how they can be a part of our daughter’s life. And it’ll start with family therapy. For now, she has one set of grandparents that will go to the end of the earth for her, and that’s more than enough. My family has been absolutely incredible in their support and their so excited for us. Things are looking better than they ever have.

That’s all folks. Thanks again for your support on this wild journey.

Tl;dr: Mary and in-laws have mostly left us alone. Jenna is a badass now. We’re having a baby and soon I’ll have two queens in my life. Captain Simp, over and out.

Comments

Taliesine_

I love how you're simping (aka supporting) your wife, you're an adorable couple. Congratulations on the pregnancy, keep on with being an awesome supporting husband !

In laws (60F, 79M) are begging for forgiveness. Should my wife (35F) and I (38M) keep the door closed? - 9 months later

Hello everyone, I have come here for advice before and you were all incredibly helpful, and I could really use some support again.

You can check my post history for the full story, but tl;dr: last year my wife (“Jenna”) and I had to make the decision to go no-contact with her whole family. Her sister (“Mary”, 30F) sexually assaulted me, in-laws defended her, and after some legal wrangling they finally left us alone. The situation wrecked my wife’s self-esteem and tested our relationship, but we made it through.

Jenna and I had our first daughter in February. She’s amazing and we’re doing great. We ended up moving away from Jenna’s home state (NY) to mine (MA) to be closer to my family, and they’ve been incredibly helpful with the baby. We have not seen Jenna’s family since cutting contact and blocking them everywhere, and we didn’t tell them about the baby.

Yesterday we received a letter in the mail from my MIL and FIL. No idea how they got our address. Apparently my FIL has been diagnosed with late-stage cancer and is being told he could be dead in weeks. In laws went on about how sorry they were for the way they handled the situation with Mary. They also apologized for the way they’ve treated my wife her whole life (again, check post history but basically Mary was the golden child and Jenna was an afterthought despite being super accomplished). They ended by saying they recently heard about the baby through the grapevine and want to meet their grandchild.

To me, the apology seemed genuine. They went into detail on what they did wrong, apologized and expressed remorse, and explained what they should have done differently. They said they hoped to earn our forgiveness with time and were willing to do family therapy to heal our relationship.

Jenna is not having it. She feels like it’s too little too late and doesn’t want to respond. She also suspects that they’re lying about FIL’s cancer and just want to pressure us into reconciliation so they can meet the baby. It seems ludicrous but I guess I wouldn’t put it past them.

I want to respect my wife’s feelings around this, but I’m worried that if the cancer is real, she may regret not taking this opportunity for reconciliation before he dies. I expressed this to her but she is adamant and I haven’t broached the topic since.

My instinct is to wait a few more days until the shock wears off to talk about it again. I just don’t know what the best way to approach it would be. I certainly don’t want to force my wife to do anything she doesn’t want to do, but I feel like she’s not thinking clearly about this right now. It also must be noted that our baby is still struggling with sleep and we’re both tired and emotional all the time, so I feel like this might be influencing how she feels about all this.

What should I do here? Should I try again or just let it be?

Tl;dr: In-laws are attempting to reconcile after claiming FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Wife does not want to consider it but I am worried she will regret it later on.

Edit: People, stop being mean to me. I too am tired and emotional and my feelings are getting hurt. I am not forcing my wife to do anything. I brought it up one time. I know this is not about me. I don’t personally care either way, I just want to support my wife. I intend to tell her I am here to listen/talk about it if she wants to but I fully support her decisions around this. She has a great therapist she trusts and I’ll be here to support her however I can.

Comments

Leaf-Stars

Respect your wife and her decisions regarding her family. It’s that simple.

OOP: To be clear, I will absolutely respect whatever decision she makes. I just feel like the news is so fresh and we’re in such an emotionally complex place as it is that she may not be thinking clearly about it. A similar situation happened to a friend of mine and he regretted it for years, actually turned to alcohol pretty hard for a while after. My wife has worked really hard to improve her mental health and I worry about how the regret might set her back. Although I suppose if her family is actually lying/manipulating us that would set her back too. I just don’t know. Would it be terrible to bring it up again in a few days just to see if she feels differently?

Edit: I’ve also thought about asking my parents to take the baby for a couple of days so we can get away and recharge. Maybe just getting my wife in a better headspace would allow her to think things through more carefully/less reactively

I asked her one time and haven’t brought it up since, I am not “badgering” her, and I’m here to figure out how to support my wife in whatever decision she wants to make

Leaf-Stars

You say you’ll respect whatever decision she makes but you’re not. You’re second guessing her.

OOP: I hear you, and maybe it’s not about asking her if she feels differently so much as giving her space to talk about her feelings around it some more. But maybe it’s better to let her do that with her therapist first and just let her know I’m here to listen/think through stuff if she wants to talk about it more. To be 1000% crystal clear, if we never speak to/see them again it will be no skin off my back, they’re terrible, I just want my wife to be okay

cassanthrax

I was summoned to the death bed of an estranged parent, but I did not go. I had already grieved that relationship years before, and I didn't see any point in reopening old wounds just for his comfort. He had already been dead to me, and I was OK with that. Years later, I still don't regret my choice to stay home. I would not have benefited in any way from attending.

Your wife has already lived this, she knows better than anyone what her parents are like. Just support her, and don't judge if she has no regret at all. She's had a lifetime to deal with these people and has walked away. All her mourning and regrets may already be finished and done.

Princess-She-ra

100%

Your wife knows what she's talking about. She understands that if (and that's a big if) your FIL passed without reconciliation, she doesn't get a do over. She's ok with that - please respect that and support her

(That old "father/mother/grandma is dying and the doc says she won't make it past Christmas/Thanksgiving/Easter" is the oldest trick in the Narcissist Handbook. I'm not saying he isn't sick, but it's possible).

Whatever you do, whatever you feel, please don't go behind your wife's back, because the second oldest trick in the Narcissist Handbook is that they will reach out to you privately and try to get you to connect with them. Be prepared to block them from every new number they try, and make sure to tell you wife if anything happens.

OffKira

"They said they hoped to earn our forgiveness with time."

Not to be crass but whatever, if he's literally on death's door... "with time" is somewhat disingenuous because he doesn't have time.

In a few days, sit your wife down and stress you respect her, you respect any decision she makes, you are just concerned about the long-term consequences here, which is fair enough. However, even if she comes to regret not accepting this apology, it is her regret to carry - you should point it out, but out of concern for her, because honestly, fuck her parents.

Just make sure she understand you are her partner, you're her rock, and whatever she wants here, you're there for her, you just don't want her to regret anything (maybe don't mention the kid thing, she's allowed to both be stressed because of the baby and feel any such way about her parents). Hold her hands and assure her you do not care about her parents at all, just her. Hug her, kiss her, and be there for her.

BTW, even if she were to reconnect with her father and the, question mark, weeks before he dies, she could still come to regret that decision.

We all choose our regrets sometimes, and there is much to regret in every which direction here. Your wife has been burned her entire life, and she's understandably suspicious and wary of getting burned again. She knows what parents she's had her entire life again - and she may well have mourned their loss a long time ago, before the estrangement.

Good luck, man.

OOP: This was really helpful, thank you so much. I will give it time and let her lead the way.

I hadn’t thought about that “earn it with time” thing — like if he actually is about to die what time are they talking about?

And reading from other people that this is a common manipulation tactic makes me feel more strongly that my wife’s instinct about them lying is correct

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

My stepdaughter died 4 weeks ago and I caught my husband and his ex wife in our bed.

Trigger Warnings: death of a minor, car accident, infidelity, suicidal attempts, emotional distress

: May 10, 2024

My stepdaughter Becca (14F) died 4 weeks ago. I’ve been in her life since she was 7 years old, we were extremely close.

My husband Derek (40M), his ex-wife Sam (38F), and I (35F) get along very well, there has never been an issue in the 7 years that I’ve been with Derek. Sam has always been kind to me, she didn’t even care that Becca called me “mom” too.

Right after Becca’s passing, Sam had so much anxiety and depression that she was unable to be by herself (she has no family besides us), so we invited her to stay with us.

Sam hardly leaves the house, she mostly just sleeps in Becca’s room, which is completely understandable. I always tell her that I’m here if she needs me and that I want her to take her time with grieving and that there is no pressure to go back to her home.

Today I needed to run some errands, so I asked Sam if she’d like to join me to get out of the house a little bit, but she declined and said she’d rather just stay at the house and sleep. I told Derek that I was leaving and that I would be back in 2ish hours (he works from home), I also told him to check on Sam every once in awhile, and maybe try getting her to eat something.

After stopping at the post office, I realized I forgot my library book that I needed to return, so I went back home to get it.

As soon as I walked in the door, I heard moaning coming from mine and Derek’s bedroom. I immediately knew what was happening… and my heart completely broke in that moment.

I wasn’t completely sure what to do, but I ended up deciding to confront them, so I walked to the bedroom and opened the door and began yelling at them both. Sam started having an anxiety attack and ran to the bathroom while Derek kept apologizing profusely.

I asked him what the hell was happening, he told me that he made himself and Sam some lunch and they began talking about Becca, and shared some memories. And then Sam ended up kissing him and he didn’t pull back, and then it ended with them in our bed.

They’re begging me to understand that it was just grief that caused them to become intimate and that they both made a mistake.

I don’t know what to do. I love this man. And I love Sam. I’m heartbroken that they did this to me and put me in this position. I feel so stuck.

Relevant Comments

GreatChampionship252: That would be hard no for me. I understand grieving, but how is this excusing cheating? What happens next time he is sad? Edit: I misspoke when I said sad. Obviously this is something beyond devastating. I still don’t think it can be used as an excuse.

OOP: I don’t want to excuse his cheating. I think I want to divorce him, but I’m anxious about doing it right after we lost Becca.

Spellboundmama: Probably together. Do you both own the home? If it's in your name, change the locks. Stay strong and don't listen to his excuses. I am so sorry this happened to you during such a difficult time.

OOP: Exactly what I was thinking if I’m being honest.

And yes, we both own it. When I told him to leave, he kept saying sorry and then said that he would leave and respect me wanting him gone for awhile.

ImpulsiveXThoughts: Are you seeing a therapist perhaps? You're dealing with a lot right now, it might be useful.

OOP: Yes, I am in therapy. I’ve been with my therapist for other things for the last 3 years. She’s been very helpful. I saw her yesterday and was able to figure some things out.

: May 11, 2024

I decided that I’m filing for a divorce. I can’t ever trust Derek again. It sucks because we had an amazing relationship (I thought), he’s always been great, so this was a complete shock to me.

Last night, Derek came over to talk. He confessed to a lot. Turns out it wasn’t their first time having sex like most people thought. They’ve been having sex since 3 months before Becca died. I am completely shocked and heartbroken.

Sam also reached out last night and thanked me for everything I’ve done for her, and told me she was sorry. I didn’t respond, I blocked her.

I did so much for Sam and considered her a friend so this hurts a lot, more than I can handle.

This is all too much.

As hard as this is gonna be, I need to leave Derek and cut them both out of my life. I am ready to do so. I am done.

Also, some people are saying I deserved this because I should have known better than to let Sam into our home, around Derek. But, you need to understand that I’m a giving person, I trust people more than I should, I truly thought Sam was an amazing person. I know it’s unusual to become friends with your husband’s ex wife, but it’s just how it went for us and I shouldn’t be blamed for what happened.

Thank you to everyone who commented nice things and for the kind messages. You’ve all been helpful during this insanely difficult time, I appreciate it.

Relevant Comments

ImpulsiveXThoughts: Out of curiosity, what are his excuses for cheating?

Those two are going to be in a world of hurt, once the guilt settles in. They're going to be asking themselves why it had to be Becca and will eventually come to conclusion that it's their punishment for what they've done to you. I can pretty much guarantee you that.

OOP: He told me that they just “accidentally” reconnected one night when I was away at my mom’s. He was stressed we weren’t conceiving and were having miscarriages, so he vented to Sam, and then somehow that led to sex.

It seems so icky to me… How can he vent about our struggles like that and then go and have sex with Sam, it’s just awful of him. I don’t understand it.

Editor’s Note: removed the first half of the updates as it was a rehash of Update #1

: May 13, 2024

I’m getting lots of questions about some things so I figured I’d answer a few of them.

• Have I told anyone about what happened besides my mom? — Yes, I told a few friends and some family members. Most of them are supportive of my decision and aren’t speaking to Derek.

• Where is Derek staying? — Currently, he’s staying at a hotel. Our friends refuse to let him stay with them. He’s lost a lot of people due to his awful decisions.

• Has he tried fighting me on getting a divorce? — Yes, he begged me not to file for divorce, but when I told him I needed him to just let me go, and that I was too exhausted to fight him on this, he let it be and agreed to getting a divorce.

• Why isn’t Derek staying with Sam? — He told me he didn’t wanna continue to hurt me, so he told Sam he was done with her for good. And that they have no reason to speak to each other anymore. I have no idea if that’ll last and if they’ll just end up together, but I truly don’t care what they do anymore. I just want peace.

• What was Derek’s excuse for cheating? — He told me that they just “accidentally” reconnected one night when I was away at my mom’s. He was stressed we weren’t conceiving and were having miscarriages, so he vented to Sam, and then somehow that led to sex. Disgusting of them both, I know..

Feel free to ask anything else, and I’ll try to answer. Thank you everyone for your support and advice.

Relevant Comments

OOP on what happened to Becca

OOP: It was very sudden. She died in a car accident when she was with one of her friends and her friend’s parents.

OOP on her husband’s parents being supportive or not, and if they know about his cheating

OOP: I get along with Derek’s mom very well, but he’s also a mama’s boy so it’s kinda complicated. She will always be there for him (he’d stay with her if she didn’t live across the country). She knows what he did and told me she “had a talk” with him but said that he’s still her son and she’d help him with anything if he needed it. I’m thinking I need to cut her out of my life too which makes me really sad because we were close and talked on the phone almost daily.

OOP on if she has children with her husband

OOP: We’ve had 6 miscarriages total. All of them were in the first trimester 😢

- May 14, 2024

I just found out that he is staying with Sam and not at the hotel. He told me it’s too expensive to stay at a hotel and Sam is the only one that’ll help him right now.

I had a feeling this would happen. Just knowing that they are still probably sleeping together hurts my heart. I talked to a lawyer this morning and we are proceeding with the divorce and Derek agreed to it. It’s actually happening, and I feel some relief that he’s not fighting me on this.

My mom leaves on Sunday, I’m scared to be alone… But I go back to work on Monday so I’m hoping it’ll be a good distraction.

I’ll keep updating if anything else happens. Thank you everyone, I am so grateful for you all.

Relevant Comments

Immaculate329: OP, how did you find out he was staying at his ex-wife's place? Anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt. He is not true to his words in going on contact with Sam.

OOP: He texted me this morning after we talked to lawyers, and said he “just wants to be honest with me”… I told him to stop giving me updates on what he’s doing in his life and that it’s not something I need to know. It seems like he wanted to tell me to hurt me.

OOP on how she is doing

OOP: Thank you ❤️

I’m doing a little better today. My mom and I went on some nature walks and went out into the garden this afternoon, that helped. Becca loved gardening with me so it made me feel closer to her 🥹

: May 15, 2024

I decided to go through some of Becca’s stuff today. I just found her diary in a box in the back of her closet… Would it be wrong to read some of it?

I feel like it would help me feel closer to her but part of me feels like it’s wrong too. I haven’t told Derek that I found it either, and I’m unsure if I should tell him.. What would you do?

Relevant Comments

OOP on if she was closer with Becca prior to her sudden passing

OOP: Becca and I were very close, it felt like she told me anything and everything, but I honestly think all parents feel that way about their kids so I’m kinda nervous to read it.

: May 19, 2024

I figured it’s been a few days, so I should give a little update.

My mom is leaving in a couple hours so I’ll be alone, I’m kinda nervous about it. She helped me stay distracted and kept me going, idk how I’m gonna handle her being gone.

I go back to work tomorrow, first day back since Becca passed away. I’m looking forward to it though because it’ll keep me distracted.

Also, I did read some of Becca’s diary. It made me love her even more, she was such a sweetheart. I went back a few months and saw that she noticed some weird behavior between Derek and Sam, didn’t mention that she knew of the affair, but she just wrote that she thought it was kinda strange that they all three would hangout more than usual, without me.

I might read more, but so far I haven’t found anything that’s disturbing, just her being a teenager and talking about crushes, fights with friends, happy family memories, etc ❤️

Tomorrow I’m also talking to my lawyer so I might have more updates on that.

Thanks for the continuous love and support everyone!

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

**I am NOT OP. The OP of this story is **

Trigger Warnings: Suicide, ableism.

Mood Spoilers: Just fucking depressing.

, Posted December 21st, 2021

This is an AITA post as well as an asking for advice one. Sorry for the long text but please read the whole thing as there are many important details in it that I couldn't fit into the TLDR.

My husband (59m) and I (50f) have/had three children, James (27m), Kate (23f) and Stephen (20m). When he was 6, Stephen got diagnosed with autism and we did everything to accomodate him and get help. He kept telling that he doesn't want any help and wants to be treated like a 'normal person'. We always tried to reassure him that he needs it to archieve the same results as other kids and he should accept himself and be proud and not listen to society or other people (by the way everyone was always super accepting and did their best to accomodate) but Stephen wouldn't listen and said that he's as competent as other people and was it before he got diagnosed and we started treating him 'like a subhuman' too. Whenever someone would try to help him he immediately started to explain that he doesn't want or need any help and came up with excuses.

As he grew older Stephen distanced himself from other people because he didn't want anyone to know him as an autistic person. He even asked us to let him change schools and not tell anyone at the new school about his condition what we of course didn't allow. By the time he was in his early teens he fell into a really bad depression and became suicidal but refused to take medication or go to therapy to treat it because at that point he wouldn't accept any help from anyone at all even if it wasn't for his autism. Stephen claimed that the cause of his depression was the special treatment everyone gave him and he just wanted to live as normal person. He tried to make a compromise that if we let him go to a different school where no one knows about his autism and stop treating him differently he will get treatment for his depression. By then James, Kate and a few of Stephen's teachers were encouraging us to let him do it and but we still said no. When Stephen was 15 he attempted to kill himself by hanging.

At 18 he finished school, got accepted into his dream university, moved out and cut off contact with my husband and me (he still kept talking to his siblings). He left us an angry goodbye letter in which he claimed that we ruined 12 years of his life, that we are the reason why he's still depressed and suicidal and that he hates us with a passion. He said that now he finally won't be known as a 'crazy, stupid and awkward person who needs help for everything' and can lead a normal life. We tried to call him and sent him letters and emails but he didn't answer. Recently we visited him at his university but he wouldn't talk to us and eventually threatened to get a restraining order after which we immediately left. We haven't heard much about him since then but from what his siblings told us he was doing better now although he still suffered from depression.

Anyway, today he committed suicide. From what we know he overdosed on medication. Kate (who told us the sad news) says that we shouldn't have given Stephen any special treatment or at least stopped when he told us to and that by treating him differdntly we basically drove him into suicide. She said that we've failed as parents and she will consider cutting contact with us too because she doesn't want people like us as parents. James agreed with her and said that we should at least acknowledge our mistake. Kate packed her stuff and left shortly after (she originally planned to stay for New Year's too) saying that if we want to keep a relationship with her we should admit what we did wrong and learn from it. We however think that it's the fault of society with its standards and expectactions, and Stephen's own fault because he wouldn't accept any help.

We're absolutely devastated. Is Stephen's suicide really our fault and what can we do to save what's left of our family?

TLDR: Our son was diagnosed with autism as a child, we got all the help we could but he didn't want it. In his teens he became depressed and suicidal. He cut contact with us when he moved out. Today we found out he killed himself and our children say that it's our fault. Our daughter threatens to cut contact as well. Are we really to blame for his death and what should we do?

, Posted November 28th, 2022

Tomorrow would have been the 21st birthday of our son who took his life almost a year ago.

My husband and I (60m & 51f) have/had three children, Stephen (20m), Kate (24f) and James (27m). At the age of 6 Stephen got diagnosed with autism and we did everything we could to get help and accomodations. Everyone was super accepting and did their best to accomodate, and we always told him to be proud and not care about social norms, but Stephen still refused to accept any help and demanded that we stop treating him 'like a subhuman'. No matter how many times we told our son that he needs help to get on the same level as other children, he wouldn't accept it.

As he was approaching his teens, he gradually isolated himself from the world. He had no friends, no hobbies and avoided spending time with us, although he didn't mind spending it with his siblings. He avoided other kids at school and as soon as he got home, he would lock himself up in his room, and only went out when absolutely necessary. When he was 10, he also began to refuse to celebrate his birthday because 'it reminded him that yet another year has gone by and everything is still just as bad'.

He ended up getting depression and suicidal thoughts and blamed it on the 'special treatment' we gave him. We tried to get Stephen therapy and antidepressants but he refused because at that point he wasn't accepting any help at all - even for things that had nothing to do with his autism. When he was 15, he tried to kill himself by hanging, but luckily, he survived. Stephen tried to make a 'deal' that if we let him go to a different school where no one knew that he is autistic he would accept treatment for his depression, and even a few of his teachers as well as his siblings told us to let him do that but we didn't allow that because we didn't think that he would get through school without help.

Right after graduating school (he was 18 at the time), our son got accepted into his dream university (the University of Oxford) and moved out. We didn't even know that he had applied to university and only found out from the goodbye letter he left. It was a very angry and hateful letter - he said that we ruined 12 years of his life and went on a rant about how much he hates us. He cut off all contact to us (but kept talking to James and Kate) and blocked us everywhere. We tried to contact Stephen from other numbers/emails and sent him letters but he never answered. According to our other children, he was studying chemistry and biology (he always expressed an interest in those and science in general growing up, and in his last years with us also said that he wanted to get a PhD and become either a pharmacologist or an organic chemist, although we thought that would be to hard for him) and had even made some friends.

My husband and I visited him at university at the beginning of last November but he wouldn't talk to us and even said that he will get a restraining order against us if we don't leave him alone. About a month after that, he attempted suicide again, this time by overdosing on medication, and unfortunately, he successed. Kate blamed us for his death, saying that he repeatedly told us how much he didn't want to be treated differently but we never listened. She has since also cut off contact because she 'couldn't and didn't want to forgive us for killing her brother'. Our other son has also been visiting and talking to us much less since then. In just a couple of months, we have lost pretty much all of our children.

We tried to distract ourselves, but with Stephen's birthday coming up, we can only think of him and our other children, even if they have abandoned us and he didn't like to celebrate his birthday.

, Posted December 12th, 2022

We miss him so much.

Our (60m&51f) daughter Kate (24f) completely stopped talking to us about 10 months ago. She did it because according to her, we are to blame for her younger brother's (21m) suicide, which happened about one and a half months prior to Kate cutting off contact to us. However, at the time of his suicide he has already also been no contact with us for over a year (he left for university, stopped talking to us and blocked us everywhere immediately after graduation and we didn't even know he had applied for university) with the exception of one time when we visited him at university, and even then he didn't talk to us.

Kate's other brother (27m) still regulatly talks to her and we've tried to get him to get her to talk to us again but he refuses because he thinks that Kate 'doesn't have to talk to us if she doesn't want to' and he also believes that our youngest killed himself because of us even though it doesn't make any sense. She doesn't talk to any of her other relatives, we've reached out to her on social media but she didn't answer and although we knew where she lived until recently (we visited but she was never home) according to her brother she has moved to NYC this September because she enrolled into a PhD program at some university there, so we don't even know where she lives now.

What can we do to get Kate to talk to us again?

, Posted December 18th, 2022

My (51f) husband (60m) has had a drinking problem for somewhat over two years now. He usually drinks vodka and occasionally wine and has 2-5 shots of vodka on weekdays and sometines up to a ehole bottle on weekends. When he drinks wine, it's even more and he will even have an entire bottle during the week. When he's drunk, he is extremely angry and although he doesn't get physically aggressive, he screams and yells a lot, and I basically don't get any real time with him, with the exception of he occasional few hours on a weekend, because he gets drunk as soon as he gets home on workdays and often starts drinking by around noon on weekends as well.

His drinking problem comes in waves. With my help, he has managed to get it under control multiple times, and although he would still drink almost every day, it was usually nowhere near enough to get him drunk, but it always gets worse again.

He only began intensively drinking about two years ago when our youngest applied to university without us knowing and then cut us off when he went off to said university. My husband felt very angry and betrayed (and he still is) and that's when he resorted to alcohol. Before that, he would only drink on special occasions like holidays, parties and datenights, and even then he almost never had enough to get drunk.

I feel like I've lost him since his drinking problem began (at least during the 'waves' when it's really bad) because he's drunk most of the time and then all he does is just scream around. What can we do to end his drinking problem?

**Reminder - I am not OP**

I am not The OOP, OOP is

I gave my husband an ultimatum, quit his job or I'm leaving

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: hostile workplace, emotional distress, struggles with physical and mental health, extreme burnout

May 6, 2024

Let's preface by saying that I love him, I don't want to leave him but I can't keep seeing the man I love killing himself for a company that doesn't value him.

My husband got promoted to Sales Director last year, and we were very happy about it at first. But then his life (and my own) became hell. The company is struggling and is dealing with numerous lawsuit from clients. My husband knew nothing of this when he was brought on as Director.

He works every single fucking day from 8AM and comes home late, even past midnight. Often he works full Saturdays as well. He has lost weight and his hair is already graying. One night he didn't come back home and I panicked. I called his company and they wouldn't tell me where he was. He reached out to me around midday and I learned he had been hospitalized for heart palpitations. Doctors advise him to take more exams because he risks an heart attack.

He is just 36 but looks ten years older. His company uses and abuses him (I heard him talking to his bosses on phone calls, the way those people talk to him...) and he is too beaten down to leave. I'm friend with his deputy director (funny thing, I suspected they were having an affair at first, but she became a great friend for me) and she's actively looking to leave.

We tried to drill this into my husband, to no avail. I have been polite, I have been rude, now I'm just done. I don't want to watch him die.

I gave him the ultimatum: quit this fucking job or I am gone. He is worried about the money, but I work and I can be the breadwinner while he recuperates and looks for a new job. He seemingly took me seriously but for now has not quit, he has taken sick days. And he has really fallen sick now.

I can't take this anymore. I love this man, and I am watching him kill himself for people that wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Embarrassed_Sky3188

You are right, but he can't hear you right now. Keep pushing. Would it help to have the deputy come over, and they both agree to leave? It's possible they are (appropriately) close (possibly trauma bonded) and he doesn't want to leave her behind.

OOP

We already had this talk with him. She says that if he walks, she's walking with him. He won't budge and says he doesn't want her to lose her job for him.

~

Unfair_Finger5531

I don’t blame you. I don’t like ultimatums, but sometimes they are needed. You can’t just stand by and watch him work himself to death.

I hope he’s at least getting some rest on his sick days.

OOP

I had to take away the phone because they kept pestering him for every little thing. I am angry and I am scared, I can't live like this but I know that if I leave those people might end up killing him.

OOP GIVES A LITTLE UPDATE IN THE COMMENTS

Here's the plan. Tonight his deputy will come over and we will draft their resignations. I decided to take this off my husband's hands, I am quitting his job for him.

We won't forward the resignations right away because first I want to collect proof of the mistreatment and psychological abuse. If my husband gets better I will be all too happy to forget about those people.

But if he has a heart attack or dies, I am suing the crap out of them. I am sitting beside him, he's been sleeping nonstop and I check he's breathing because I am so fucking scared he might die in his sleep. Doctor said it's just a fever but if he's not getting better by tomorrow I am taking him to the hospital.

Those people are killing him.

May 8, 2024

I thought on it and I am convinced that if I leave, he might literally die, so I decided to take the situation in my hands.

Tonight his deputy director came over and we drafted my husband's and her resignations. We decided to not submit them right away, but to use their emails and accounts to find proof of the company's mistreatments and abuses. They had him work 16 hours a day and pressured him to the point of giving him heart problems. Now he has taken sick leave and barely get out of bed, he just sleeps and I have to check he's breathing because at this point I am scared he might die in his sleep.

The doctor said it's just a fever but there's also physical and mental exhaustion, and he needs to rest. I wake him up to get him to drink some water and eat something. I have to help him get up and walk to the bathroom. Tonight I made it clear he is not going back to the job, and he agreed. His deputy director spoke with him too and told him hearsay is that the company is going to collapse and close down by next fall, so they need to get out now.

There's not much to add. I spent the evening with her and we wrote the resignations and went through his emails, but we didn't find much. I broke down a bit and cried on her shoulder, I am so bottled up I needed to let some out.

That's all for now. I wish to thank everyone whom gave me advice and compassion for our situation. I will be taking care of my husband but I am so angry and sad. Those people destroyed the man of my life,I want to be hopeful but I'm not sure he will go back to how he was before.

Wish us luck.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

hey_nonny_mooses

Best wishes that you can both recover from this. He will need to recover his health and figure out why he was complacent in their abuse. You will have to figure out how to trust your husband not to martyr himself again. I hope you can both heal and perhaps get some counseling.

OOP

Thank you. I don't know when or if I'll trust him to have a healthy work life balance. I made it clear to him he's staying home at least for a month now.

NEW UPDATE

May 19, 2024

Hi, I'm back with what I think will be my last update.

It's over. We didn't find anything against his bosses or the company, so he forwarded his resignation. I wrote it for him, he just changed a couple of things and then sent it. He also requested for his deputy director to collect his things, but he got no answer yet. The only reply he from all the people he CC'd was from one Dyana, who expressed regret at seeing him go, wished him the best and asked if they could set up an exit interview.

I asked his deputy who this Dyana is, and she told me it's the only one of their corporate overlords who treats her employees like actual people, and she thinks it would do no harm to have an exit interview if my husband feels like it.

As for my husband, he's doing better, not much but he has slightly improved. He still sleeps a lot, but I manage to get him out in the garden for some fresh air. I have also booked blood tests and full check-ups for him, just to be sure.

I made it clear to him, I'm keeping him home this summer. We have enough saved up for the rainy days to live confortably, and I will keep working. Then we'll see. He's a smart man and a very hard worker, I don't doubt he will find a good opportunity in no time.

He's worried and uncertain but I do my best to reassure him and make him feel better. He used to be the rock in our relationship, but now it's my time to step up.

I would like to thank you all for your comments and kindness, on my and my husband's behalf. I know it won't be easy and it will take time, patience and love, but we'll be alright.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

- 6th May 2024

- 15th May 2024

AITAH for no longer being close to my daughter after she ignored her mother/my wife when she was very ill?

My daughter is 19, still very young but old enough to know what she did wrong.

5 years ago, my wife, her biological mother, began to exhibit very strange behavior. She would say weird things, make impulsive decisions, and act strange.

She and my daughter would clash often. Now my daughter always was a daddy’s girl but she was still close with her mother.

I honestly thought my wife was going through a midlife crisis and dealing with the pressures of working while raising a teen and we had a come to Jesus talk.

About six months after the start of that behavior, my wife ended up in a really bad accident. When they were performing emergency surgery, they found a ball sized tumor pressing her brain, which was the cause of her initial behavior.

My wife ended up having to relearn everything from walking to talking. She was still reeling from the effects of the accident and the brain tumor and was mentally and physically disabled for a while.

Our daughter refused to be in seen in public with my wife. She hated the mess of the wheelchair and her mother’s condition. She would also just ignore her mother and speak to me all the time sometimes even about her. She saw my wife as a burden and would complain to people, to the point where the school called me.

At the time I was just struggling to get by and I couldn’t alienate my daughter. My wife needed a lot of care and my daughter was in a difficult stage of her life that I couldn’t abandon her in.

When my daughter went off to college, I was sad but also somehow relieved.

My wife still needs a wheelchair sometimes and she has difficulty with some things but she has honestly improved so much. It really solidified our love for each other and our belief in our marriage.

My daughter is coming for summer break after exams. I don’t know why but I feel uncomfortable with her staying for this long. I feel like the sense of closeness I had with her evaporated when she treated her own mother callously. I don’t know what to do. My wife is very excited to have our daughter come but I don’t want to see her heartbroken. I’ve tried getting over it and talking with my therapist but I just can’t feel emotionally close with my daughter and I’m sure she’ll notice. AITAH?

Edit: I don’t know where any of your assump about my wife are coming from. Her mother was never abusive in any way, including mentally or emotionally. When I said my wife did or said strange things, she had regressed in some ways to a child which was exacerbated by the accident. For example, she would go on and on about a show she watched. She couldn’t tell a story. She would spit out food if she didn’t like it. My daughter would never have been put in an abusive situation.

Comments

Dirtwitch17

I was 14 when my mother had a traumatic brain injury. It was really rough and she had to relearn how to do the same things your wife did, largely. While I didn’t go the route of your daughter, I did feel very odd. As a child you’re used to your mother always being there for you, and seeing your protective and parental figure helpless is traumatic in a way. Therapy seems like a good option individually for her, and then family therapy.

anchbosu

Is family therapy an option? Your daughter was 14 when her mother started acting very weirdly and then had a massive accident. I bet your daughter was TERRIFIED at the time. Give her a chance and try to see her for who she is now.

Fabulous_Egg_7603

Honestly I think the issue here is that your daughter was a young teenager when your wife's behavior essentially alienated her. Yes the tumor isn't her fault but it still caused damage. So when the accident happened your daughter had already mentally and emotionally pulled away. Then the accident and it sounds like you focused on your wife's care. Which while understandable that she needed help and support your daughter also needed support from her parent. So your daughter likely blames her mother for ruining her teenage years and taking you away from her.

Update - 9 days later

Mother’s Day was terrible. I don’t know why I’m updating this. Maybe it’s for the few people can sympathize.

A lot of the prior comments made untrue, horrible accusations about my wife.

My wife was never abusive or even mean, not in any state. It makes it so much harder to understand why our daughter would be so cold to her own mother.

My wife’s mental state before the accident had regressed into childlike behavior, which is concerning but not the cause of my daughter’s coldness. My wife would spit food out back into her plate, bluntly say it tasted bad and the wipe her nose with her sleeve like a child. I made the error of thinking she was having a midlife crisis because she bought an expensive dress because it was soft. She would forget to do things, her responsibilities.

Mother and daughter clashed because she would tell stories with no beginning and end, just rambling. She would ask the same questions over and over. She would promise to pick her up or bring something and forget. Things that would annoy a teenage girl.

The tumor were concentrated in the back of the head. When she got into the car accident, it made everything worse. She needed to relearn everything. She is still disabled.

We had high expectations for our daughter but she set them higher for herself. She had a dream school, where she wanted to go since she was 12. It meant that I had to chauffeur to so many activities throughout high school and sacrifice a lot to make sure she got the opportunities she wanted.

It meant leaving my disabled wife in a longer term care facility to hopefully recover. It was Covid so there were long stretches where we didn’t visit her. She was there for too long. I never should have left her there.

When she came home, my wife was still largely nonverbal and wheelchair bound. She needed help with everything from eating to going to the bathroom. I earned a little as a caregiver on top of my regular job.

My daughter was so cruel and cold to her mother at that time. She wasn‘t a young kid or even a young teen anymore. She was never expected and never did take care of her mother so it wasn’t caregiver burnout. She would hate if her mother came outside with her and would later blame it on the wheelchair, saying it was bulky and attracted attention. She would ignore her mother and moved away to distance herself physically. I ended up getting a call from the school because a classmate had overheard what she said about her mother and reported it as ableism. I don’t know what she said. All I know is that she was very cruel to her mother.

I had her in individual therapy and we did therapy as father and daughter. It was her choice to stop.

My daughter ended up getting into her dream college. They had an accepted students weekend and she demanded that her mother stay home even though parents were invited. By that time my wife had made leaps and bounds in progress and was disappointed to stay home. I went and tried to be a proud father. At least she let her mother go to graduation.

My daughter came home a few days ago. Her exams were earlier. She informed us that she earned a research position with a professor for the summer. My wife was overjoyed, writing a card all on her own about how proud she was and she wished she saw her daughter grow into accomplished young woman. How proud she was to share this moment. My daughter looked sick with guilt. I know what that looks like.

On Mother’s Day, I made a comment that she couldn’t ignore her mother today. She told me to stop saying that. I made another comment about how proud her mother was of her and how much she loved her. I was doing it on purpose. It ended up with her saying she regretted what she did. I always had my suspicions. I interrogated her until she tearfully admitted she hated what her mother had turned into and she hit her mother once and she was ashamed to be around her because of what people thought. We got into a shouting match and she yelled at me that I was so focused on everyone else’s behavior because I regretted my own.

It’s true in a lot of ways. Because of Covid, there were limited visiting hours. But I still didn’t visit as much as I should have. I left my wife in a facility to focus on our daughter but also so that it would be easier for me. There are no siblings, no grandparents to help. I didn’t visit as much because I hated how much my wife would sob when I had to leave.

I started feeling guiltier when I read a news article about a nurse being sentenced for assaulting a woman in a coma. I thought about my wife. She was nonverbal, had limited short term memory, and wheelchair bound. I wouldn’t know what would happen. I tried to convince myself that it was fine but all I did was find more and more news articles about abuse at care facilities. I would have nightmares.

I pulled my wife out. I took months of work. I finally got her home. She was taken care of but not like I would have. There were a few knots in her hair, bruising, sores.

I won’t lie, the care was brutal. Now I had to juggle taking care of my wife and making sure my daughter was supported and able to reach her dreams. And it was hard seeing my wife like that. She was accomplished and intelligent and now couldn’t do a puzzle or eat on her own or go to the bathroom by herself. There was a huge learning curve and they assigned a nurse to come see my wife every few days.

My wife is so sweet. I attend a caregivers support group and I feel guilty because my wife doesn’t have the fits of temper or the rage or the depression that others did. I felt guilty for being tired. Some had it a lot harder than I did.

She got better and over time it was like she was almost back to her old self. And she never lost love for either of us. it hurts that she blames herself for how our daughter treated her. Maybe I shouldn’t have let my daughter focus on prestige and appearance so much, maybe I should’ve realized the signs early on and exposed her to others.

My daughter and aren’t speaking. My wife just wanted a happy family. I’m looking for therapy for us as a family.

Comments

genescheesesthatplz

Oh fuck this is so heavy. I have no idea what to say. I commend you for your strength, being the primary caregiver to a teen and disabled woman must’ve been soul crushing. No matter what I wish you all nothing but the best!

ProcessorProton

Sometimes....not always...but sometimes, the choices our kids make and the people they become hurts us very, very deeply. There are times, and my wife and I had to deal with this, where just permanently separating from our offspring is the only thing we can do that will allow us to have a happy, peaceful life. To regain some level of happiness. I hope that, however your situation turns out, you and your wife do find that happiness again and live happily ever after

OOP: I can’t give up yet. I just have to have hope that she has changed for the better and that we can rebuild somehow. My wife would be devastated to be estranged from her baby.

EntertainerEnough812

She opened the door to you, admitting how she really felt and why, and it’s understandable that what came out of her disclosures led to a big fight. Try to keep that door open, this could be an opportunity for her to get to know you and her mom from an adult’s frame of mind. Good luck!

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

Previous

[New Update]: AITA for refusing to have my dad in my life after he chose his new family?

Editor’s Note: changed letters to names for readability, originally used Logan, but now switched to Luke based on OOP’s latest update.

Editor’s Note 2: Also have removed some older relevant comments as they have been covered in the further updates and needing more space to fit all posts here.

Thanks to and for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: verbal abuse, emotional abuse and manipulation, infidelity, gaslighting, betrayal. vandalism, obsessive behavior

RECAP

: April 20, 2024

When I was 13 my dad had an affair and left my mom and moved in with his affair partner who ill call Jane.

At first me and my sister would visit every weekend and I will admit he was a good dad although I never liked Jane.

When Jane got pregnant and had their son our visits became less frequent and my dad was more concerned with his new family. He would miss some of my my recitals or my sisters competitions because he was busy with his son.

When I was 16. Jane decided she wanted to move for a new job opportunity. Me and my sister begged him not to leave us bit he just said "I need to prioritise my family". He moved 10 hours away. That pretty much ended our relationship and I decided to go no contact as it was clear he did not consider me family.

My younger sister stayed in contact with him. He would try and call me and offer for me to come and visit with my sister but I refused. When he came back to see my sister I would refuse to speak to him when he turned up at the house. I didn't invite him to my high school or college graduation.

I'm now 33 and have remained no contact with him, he has over the years repeatedly tried contacting me and getting his family to contact me on his behalf to reconcile. I have avoided family events in case he attended including my sisters wedding and baby showers.

My dad and his family moved back to our home town 3 months ago and he has been relentless trying to reconcile.

I have received messages from my half brother and sister wanting a relationship saying he's a great dad. My dad found out I'm getting married and keeps trying to contact me and has even tried to speak to my fiancé.

Jane messaged me saying I have broke my dads heart repeatedly and I'm pathetic and should get therapy. I replied back that she was nothing but a home wrecking whore and then blocked her.

Everyone seems to be wanting me to let him back in my life. I'm sick of all the harassment and accidentally bumping into my dad and his family in the town. Whenever I see him I just walk away and refuse to speak to them. Everyone is saying he's a good dad and tried his best to remain in contact but I pushed him away.

Everyone is pressuring me my mom, sister. Grandparents aunts and uncles, even some of my friends. My fiancé has even started saying I'm the AH for shutting him out. Its all starting to get to me so am I aita?

Edit:

Thank you for your comments I haven't got through all of them but I'm glad to know that most of you think I'm NTA which is a huge relief as I thought I was going insane.

I'm going to have a serious conversation with my fiancé as most of you pointed out he should have my back. If he continues to defend my dad then I'm going to have to think if this relationship should go any further. We are 12 weeks out from the wedding but need to sort this out sooner than later.

For information

I own a local business moving away is not an option

I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and he is friends with a lot of people including my fiancé family.

My dad did not come back for me - he came back because Jane’s parents need help and care.

He has not financially supported me since I was 17 he withheld my college fund to try and blackmail me into having a relationship with him so I had to work and get loans.

I've avoided events because my family use it as a chance to force reconciliation. He also won't leave me alone and makes scenes - hell come up to me talking as if nothing has happened try to hug me or starts crying.

I cant simply cut everyone off - everyone is on his side and against me including my own mother.

Edit 2

To give you all a bit more context when he left my mom for Jane he only wanted us on the weekend my mom offered him 50/50 but refused.

I didn't like Jane and was standoffish with her because I knew what they had done- my sister was too young to understand and was more accepting of her. Jane was mean to me but nice to my sister when I was at my dad's I felt uncomfortable and she would purposefully leave me out of fun activities or plan things purely for my sister. We had a few arguments over minor things but my dad always took her side. My dad and me used to have daddy daughter date at least once every 2 weeks. Jane put a stop to that.

When she had my half brother we went from going every weekend to once every 6 weeks. My dad was MIA and had finally gotten his precious son. He stopped trying with me.

When they moved I was so upset he chose to leave us. He didn't want custody just for us to visit him every now and again and speak to him on the phone. Parenting at a distance so all of his focus was on his new family

When I graduated from high school and refused to invite him everything blew up Jane called me some terrible names and so did my dad and he refused to give me my college fund unless I started being part of the family again. From what I gathered, he spent it on his new family.

I'm sick of being the one to miss out on events with my family. I would be willing to be in the same room but not interact or even be civil but he pushes things and makes it impossible

Edit 3

Have spoken to my fiancé. Update will be posted shortly

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

OOP on staying away from the father and his family and blocking Jane

OOP: I've tried my best to stay away from him and his family but with it being a small town its impossible to avoid them. Some of the times I've bumped into him seemed a bit too coincidental and feel like it was a set up.

I have blocked Jane can't stand the woman she was always mean to me even when I was a child because I was standoffish. My sister is 5 years younger and was more accepting of her so my sister and Jane have a good relationship.

: April 20, 2024 (10 hours later)

Thank you for all of the comments although most seem to be NTA some were YTA. Some of you gave helpful suggestions which I am planning to take on board.

I have just spoken to my fiancé and unfortunately it has not gone well but at this point in time I've had enough and want to runaway and never come back.

My fiancé knows my history with my dad and Jane. I explained to him that him siding with my father and pressuring me was hurting me and as my fiancé he should be supporting me.

My fiancé who I'll call Luke told me he can't support me in doing something that he knows is wrong. Luke told me that he had spoke to my father and had an understanding of both sides of the story and believes that if we both sit down and talk we can sort this out and reconcile.

I told Luke I don't want this and want no contact and asked why he is even speaking to my father. Luke admitted his father who is friends with my dad encouraged Luke to speak to him and hear him out.

Luke told me my dad loved me very much and always wanted to be in my life and has pictures of me (I'm guessing he got these from my family as my social media is set to private). Luke said my dad is heartbroken at the state of our relationship because I was being unreasonable about him moving away when I was young. Luke stated I got on the wrong foot with Jane and that I was not innocent in the breakdown of the relationship. He told me that everyone can see the truth but me and to look in the mirror because I'm the problem.

Needless to say I broke down crying and asked him why he was doing this to me and not supporting me. Luke claims to love me but won't stand by and watch me be "a heartless bitch".

After he said this I stood up told him that he shouldn't marry a heartless bitch and walked out. I'm currently sat in my car. My phone is blowing up with Luke trying to contact me but I don’t want to speak to him. I feel like I'm losing everything and everyone I dont understand what is happening.

: April 21, 2024

Hi everyone thanks for the comments and letting me sound off on you as I desperately need an outside perspective.

I know a lot of you are telling me to cut all contact with my family and leave town. That is not an option for me financially and I would not be able to set up business elsewhere all my money is invested in it and I have only managed to get established recently with steady income, relocating is not an option for me. I love my friends and family and don't want to cut everyone off, I love my hometown I grew up here this is my life and I'm not willing to walk away from it.

I didn't expect to write another update this fast but a lot has happened today.

So firstly I agreed to meet my dad to talk and try and get him to back off and leave me alone. I asked my mom to arrange it, just him no one else. I wasn't sure if he would agree to that but within 15 minutes of her calling he was at the door.

I asked my mom to stay and mediate. To summarize the conversation. These are a bit messed up because it's a lot to remember.

Me:

• I asked him to give me space and stop trying to get everyone on his side and let me live my life.

• I told him he stopped being my father when he moved 10 hrs away

• I told him Jane was mean to me and told him about all the horrible things she has said to me over the years.

• I hate how he chose Jane and his new family over me and how he told me he had to prioritise them and how he basically told me I wasn't family

• He was an AH for withholding my college fund and trying to blackmail me and then spending it on his new family

• I hate how I have missed major family events because he attended the events and would make them awkward.

• I don't see his son and daughter as my family and I'm sick of them trying to speak to me and approach me

• he keeps making scenes every time he sees me and making me look the bad guy

• he keeps inserting himself into my life going to my fiancé’s family events, going behind my back to talk and sway Luke to his side

• I hate how he cheated on my mom and broke our family up and then listened to Jane who stopped our dates, missed my recitals, reduced contact and was more concerned about his son.

Him

• He loves me and always has he is never going to give up trying to reconnect and he has given me enough space over the years and he is done hearing about my life from 2nd hand knowledge and is not willing to miss any more if it.

• he loves Jane and and can't regret his past because he wouldn't have her or his 2 kids. He wishes he had done it differently and ended his marriage with my mom first.

*his kids are innocent and I shouldn't be taking it out on them they just want to know their big sister

• I was difficult child who was rude and disrespectful to Jane breaking her belongings, calling her names, ruining day trips.

• when Jane got pregnant she was high risk and me coming every week and starting arguments was stressing her out so for her and his sons sake he stopped the weekend visitation. He still spoke to us on the phone and took us out for dinner and days out but just didn't let us sleep over.

• when his son was born he was premature and had health complications which meant him staying in hospital for weeks and frequent hospital admissions. Jane was also going through PPD so he wasn't able to see us as much and had to miss some events when he was taking care of Jane and his son.

• Jane was unable to get a job locally and the opportunity was too good to pass up so they had to move. He pointed out that he came back to town for weekends as much as he could to see us and would always invite us to fly out and spend vacations with him. He phoned everyday but I refused to speak or see him.

• They had flown in for my graduation but I refused to invite him and he lost his temper and refused to give me my college fund. He apologised for this and tried to fix this a few weeks later and give me the money but I refused it. He has not spent the money he still has it and I have only to ask and I can have it.

• he had visited me at my college to try and talk to me but I refused to see him.

• He is not going to miss family events

• he makes a scene because he misses me and just wants to talk to me and reconcile but I always end up running way or shouting insults at him and Jane.

• He has been trying for 16years to reconnect but I shut him down at every turn he just wants to be my dad.

• He is old friends with my fiancé dad and he hoped my fiancé could talk some sense into me and open a line of communication.

• he feels I never gave Jane a chance no matter how she tried in the beginning and hoped we could be civil. Jane hates knowing I talk bad about her, am mean to her children and won't speak to him.

He wants:

My dad is in therapy and wants me to join him for family sessions.

He wants me to spend time with him 1-1

To stop being rude and mean to his children and spend time with them.

Stop trash talking Jane to everyone and actually give her a chance

Invite for him and my family to my wedding and to walk me down the aisle.

I want:

Him to stop talking to my friends and getting others to try and talk to me on his behalf

Keep Jane away from me completely

To be be civil at events or in town providing he does not try and hug me or talk to me.

My mom told him he was being unrealistic with some of the things he wants especially regarding Jane and his other children so we have agreed for now.

I will attend 3 therapy sessions with him when he arranges it. (my mom thinks I need individual therapy as well) He will stop trying to interfere in my life and relationships He will keep Jane away from me and talk to his kids to give me space. I will be civil to him in public as long as he respects my personal space and does not approach or pressure me.

As for my fiancé - I still havent spoken to him, he turned up at my moms but she refused to let him in. He keeps blowing up my phone and so does his family and friends telling me to hear him out.

During my conversation with my dad I found out my dad has paid for most of the vendors and services for my upcoming wedding and they have been on speaking terms for quite some time ( longer than I thought). Luke told me his family had paid for these and i believed him. I feel betrayed by him and that I can't trust him. I'm going to have to speak to him eventually but I dont feel ready.

Relevant Comments

OOP on if she can block her father and if she can have an order on him to stay away from her

OOP: I wouldn't be able to get a restraining order against him. What am I going to do tell the police my dad is talking to people in the town and my friends about me. He is showing up to parties and events he's invited to. He's trying to talk to me when he bumps into me in town?

He is not on my social media , he is blocked on my phone other than events and meeting in town that can be chalked up to coincidence I have nothing to report

- April 27, 2024

Firstly I'd like to apologise for taking down my posts. I was really upset and felt under lot of pressure and needed space to think without constant messages. Some of you were trying to be helpful and I apreciate that but some of the abusive messages I received was terrible.

I'm updating for those who have asked for an update and were supportive to me. This will be my last post and I wont be posting again.

Firstly the deal with my dad is off the table. He couldn't even manage a week without overstepping my boundaries. So there will be no therapy sessions with him and I will remain no contact.

As you are all aware after speaking to my dad and agreeing a way forward and my conditions.

Keep Jane away from me Tell his kids to back off Don't pressure me or invade my space

It lasted all of 3 days. Everyone seemed happy I had "forgiven" my dad and told me so. My sister was excited I was willing to give him a chance and with some pressure I agreed to have dinner with just her and my dad.

When my sister and I arrived at the restaurant to meet our dad he was not alone. He had invited Jane, my grandparents his son and daughter. He got up and tried to hug me.

I immediately became upset asking why they were there. My dad told me that if we have any hope of repairing our relationship I had to accept Jane and my younger siblings. I told him he just broke our deal and to never contact me again and tried to leave. He refused to let me leave and grabbed hold of me.

When I say all hell broke loose I mean it. I started shouting at them. My Dad, Jane and grandparents tried to gaslight me and convince me to sit down when that didn't work things got very heated and a shouting match started and a lot of unforgivable things were said by my dad and Jane including remarks about my appearance and calling me a psychopath. My half brother walked out of the restaurant and my half sister started to cry.

My sister actually surprised me and defended me, shouting at my dad for ruining things after all this time when I had finally given him a chance. She even slapped Jane. She got me out of there and apologised to me. I think this was the first time she had really seen how Jane was with me and how she treat me. She kept saying she couldn't understand how dad had spent years saying he would do anything to have me back and then would do this when he finally got his chance to rebuild the relationship.

My dad has been trying to contact me but I have blocked him and refused to talk to him. I have also refused to speak to my grandparents. My dad has tried to convince my mom and sister to speak to me but I think he's burned his bridges with them.

The incident from the restaurant has spread and some people seem to be backing off. Like I said what my dad and Jane shouted at me was unforgiveable and they were overheard and this is a small town. Hopefully people will back off and those who won't Im going to have to cut them out.

My sister is very unhappy with my dad and Jane and not speaking to them. She is blaming them for me going no contact again. My sister is not letting them see her kids. I don't know if my sister will reconcile but right now she is furious. My mom is also furious and apparently had a few choice word with my dad and Jane and has promised she will never pressure me again to speak to him.

I am going to go to individual therapy I think I definitely need it. I do feel bad about my half siblings as they havnt done anything wrong and am maybe open to having a distanced kind of relationship with them in the future but I'm not ready yet or if I'll ever be. I did send them a message on Facebook to apologise and tell them they've done nothing wrong.

Lastly to update you all - in regards to my fiance well I spoke to him yesterday about everything I had been radio silent since walking out on him.

Basically he was pressured by his father to speak to my dad and was fed a sob story of a misunderstood father desperately wanting to be in his daughters life. Luke had become annoyed with me refusing to attend his family events and walking out of his mother's birthday party when I realised my dad and Jane was there as he was getting pressure from his family about me ruining their events.

He just wanted everyone to be happy and get along clearly at my expense.

Luke admitted my dad had paid for some of the vendors for the wedding but he did not know this until after it was already paid. His father had told Luke that him and his mom had paid. My dad had told Luke it was a gift and his way of contributing. Luke admitted my dad had asked him to speak to me on his behalf.

I told Luke he had betrayed my trust and I couldn't see myself marrying someone who does not support me. He broke down crying and apologising to me and promising to never do it again. Luke was heartbroken and begged for a 2nd chance.

To those of you who wanted me to break up with him, I'm sorry to disappoint you but we are going to try and work through this. Apart from this issue he had been the best partner and I genuinely think that he had been manipulated by his family and my dad. Luke has promised to stand up to his family and go no contact with my dad.

I'm still living at my moms as I still need some space which I wont have if I move home. We are going to contact our wedding vendors and see what our options are next week. Luke is begging for a postponement rather than cancel it altogether. We may still break up as actions speak louder than words and I need to see if he can rebuild what we had and show me I can trust and depend on him.

Relevant Comments

OOP on if she is able to change her contact information and what about Luke

OOP: There's no point changing my number when I've done this before he always manages to get it again.

As for Luke - breaking up is not off the table. I'm giving him a chance to show me he means what he says. I always thought I had a decent relationship with Luke’s family, but clearly not. I'm not asking him to go NC with them thats for him to decide. I'm certainly going to distance myself from them and any further incidents no contact.

As for any future children if we are still together I won't be trusting them with my children at all

: May 4, 2024

Hi everyone I did not plan to make another update at all but I'm still getting messages for an update and thought I would let you know the recent developments.

Firstly I have cancelled the wedding I was able to get some partial refunds but have lost some money. Luke begged me not to cancel the wedding but there was no way I could marry him after what he did.

I was set on giving him a 2nd chance and he promised me he would go low contact and stand up to his parents and issue an ultimatum that we would not tolerate any contact with my dad and Jane. Basically he would tell them we would not attend any event or party if they were invited and we would not tolerate any attempt to force contact or relationship with my dad.

He met with them to explain this to them. When he came back from this meeting he was quite irritable with me and appeared to have had a change of heart to summarize it - he was trying to convince me his family only meant well and that he can't go low contact with his family because he loves them and he can't dictate their friendships. He then tried to convince me it won't be an issue in the future and his father would speak to my dad and tell him to be on his best behaviour in my presence.

As soon as I heard this people's comments went through my head and the main one being if we had children he would take them to his family where my dad and Jane would be and I would have no control over this. At that moment

I realised I couldn't trust Luke and never would be able to.

I broke up with him, he is not taking it well and keeps begging me to take him back and that he would go no contact with his family. His family and friends are trying to convince me on his behalf not to end our relationship. He has made his choice and proven to me he is spineless. I don't need him in my life.

In regards to my dad I'm looking into getting a restraining order given what happened in the restaurant I might be able to but i dont know yet a friend of mine is helping me look into this.

My dad has kept a low profile since last week apart from a couple of attempts to apologize to me I havnt heard much from him. My sister still won't speak to him or Jane. Unlike me my sister is highly confrontational and has blasted him and Jane on social media with what happened at the restaurant and things that have happened in the past which I didn't know about.

My sister and Jane had a very public screaming match when she had seen them in town due to my sisters posts and demanding to take them down it ended up with Jane assaulting my sister. My dad apparently sided with Jane in this. My sister now hates Jane and refuses to speak to our dad who is also trying to contact her.

My dad and Jane’s reputation seems to have taken a hit and between the incident in the restaurant and my sisters fight with Jane and het numerous Facebook posts about them, People are gossiping. This has worked well for me because some people have backed off which Im happy about unfortunately there are a few people still on his side including my ex's parents.

As for my half siblings there's not much of an update in regards to them.

I've found a therapist however there is a bit of a waiting list before I can start my therapy. I'm still living with my mom who is completely on my side and I have found a kitten and pick her up next week.

----NEW UPDATE----

: May 19, 2024 (2 weeks later)

Hi everyone thought I would give you an update as to what's been happening the last couple of weeks for those of you who are still interested.

Firstly I'm still at my moms and I got my little kitten. I've named her sascha and she is the sweetest thing but very energetic. For those of you asking for pictures I'll try, but she refuses to stay still long enough to get a one that's not blurred. I love her already. My mom continues to be my rock. IM still waiting for therapy but am finding reddit useful and therapeutic and the support I've received from most of the people on here has been great and helped me see things more clearly so a big thankyou to everyone.

As for my ex now that we've broken up I feel lighter and free and being away from him has made me see all the red flags that I was blind to in our relationship and feel like I've dodged a bullet. Luke (using real names because my posts were discovered) is not taking the breakup well and has taken over from my father constantly bothering me.

If you read this Luke we are DONE and I'm not changing my mind so stop calling me, stop coming to the house and stop sending me flowers! I'm moving on so you should too.

My sister Emma is still firmly on my side and has washed her hands of Jane (stepmonster) and they are not on speaking terms after my sister told everyone about Janes affairs.

Jane is still trying to save face saying my sister is lying and telling everyone she can how we are just the worst and that we have treated her terrible over the years and trying to ruin her marriage. Don't think anyone is buying what she is saying. She has sent abusive messages to me and my sister and when we've bumped into her she's been screaming at us and threatening us. My sisters car had been keyed and my store windows were smashed. We can't prove its her unfortunately but she is the most likely culprit.

My half siblings are definitely my dads children they tested then years ago when she was a baby. From what I've heard they're not speaking to Jane at all.

As for my dad he seems to have grown a spine and has kicked out Jane she is now living with her parents. From what I've heard he's thinking about divorce. I havnt had any contact with my dad except for a text saying he was sorry for everything. As for getting a restraining order I'm more concerned about getting one against Jane at the moment.

Relevant Comments

OOP on if she has cameras at her place

OOP: I have cameras but you can't see if it her because of the angle I'm getting more fitted for better coverage

OOP on if she has been speaking to her half siblings (father’s side) and how their relationships are with Jane now that the truth got out. And how the family is reacting

OOP: I'm not speaking to my dad or Jane or my half siblings. I've gotten this info from a cousin on my dad's side so not sure if it's true or if there is more to this. + The only people who knew were my grandparents and sister. Unfortunately when Jane and my sister fell out my sister decided to expose her on social media to everyone. My half siblings knew about her recent affair but not the one years ago.

As for my dad I don't know and I'm not going to reach out to ask

OOP on if she will forgive her father and if he would get a second chance without Jane present

OOP: Yep- hes destroyed my relationship, his and janes relationship with Emma and by sounds of it his own relationship. All because he couldn't respect my boundaries

No the damage is already done. He had his chance to fix things with me and he blew it. I just want to be left alone and get on with my life

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My boyfriend saved my friend and now she fancies him

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: attempted sexual assault, manipulation, obsessive behavior

  Dec 27, 2021

Spent the last hour debating whether to post this but here goes. TW//SA

At a halloween party earlier this year someone tried to SA my(24f) friend while she(22f) was blackout drunk, and my boyfriend(23m) caught the guy in the act & stopped him. He got his mum to come get her and carried her to the car. His mum took her to his house and she stayed in his room while he stayed out at a friends. He then drove her home in the morning.

My friend was heavily impacted by that, and hasn’t come out in a while (understandably) but we’ve met her a few times to hang out and the such. But since then she has messaged my boyfriend just trying to chat almost everyday. My boyfriend usually replies maybe once every 3 days (he’s a notoriously bad texter).

This did sort of bother me at first but I thought you know, maybe talking to him is comforting to her after what happened so I pretty much ignored it and didn’t let it bother me.

This is until yesterday. On boxing day my friend group had a get together at my friends flat. We had some drinks, played party games and did a secret santa. We agreed a £100 limit on secret santa. My friend got my boyfriend and got him a £380!!! balenciaga hoodie!! We were all like wtf but she said it was just to say thankyou. For the rest of the party it felt like she wouldnt leave his side too.

Again I let this slide, until towards the end of the night, another friend of ours pulled me to the side and told me that my friend had confided in her that she fancied my boyfriend, and had done since the incident.

Now I really don’t know what to do. My friend went through something horrific and my boyfriend saved her, but now I don’t know how to reinforce boundaries in my relationship, or if I even should.

Edit: WOW this really blew up while I was asleep! I will try and reply to as many people as I can, thank you for everyone who took time out of their day to reply!!

RELEVANT COMMENTS

geomagus

A few things:

First, good on your bf and his mum. Proper heroes.

You can’t control your friend’s feelings here. Likely she can’t control them. Infatuations are like that, and he’s given her a doozy of a reason to be infatuated.

Your bf needs to be clear that while they can be friends/confidants, he’s with you. Romance is off the table. And big gifts make him uncomfortable.

The bigger issue is beyond your ability to fix. She really needs to get some therapy to help manage the trauma, and the resulting feelings. But coming from you, she could see it as jealousy and react poorly. This might be a job for mutual friends to try to coax her into therapy.

Hopefully, receiving help from a therapist will make her more recptive to rebuilding boundaries.

OOP

Yeah I am very proud of him.

My issue is that my friend has only recently started coming out again, and only ever comes out if my boyfriend is going to be there.

I worry that by saying something it will put her in a position where she will shut herself off, which is the last thing she probably needs

geomagus

I understand. It’s a complicated situation, with a ton of potential pitfalls wherein someone can be hurt.

Above all else, your friend needs therapy. Right now she’s forming unhealthy attachments. It’s all very understandable, but it’s unhealthy and it’s causing problems for you/bf.

I worry that you’re right - if it comes from you, she may react even more poorly. Maybe bf can nudge her to therapy? Maybe mutual friends. But someone has to. In the meantime, you (or probably your bf) will have to try to reestablish boundaries in a gentle way. Talk to him and try to work out an approach. Maybe he shouldn’t spend time with her unless you’re around (a gentle reminder for her).

But again, she needs therapy. You and bf might talk to a therapist too - I’m not suggesting you need it (although I view it as an overall positive), but a therapist could help you find a way forward that both helps your relationship and helps her mental health? I don’t know.

OOP

Do you have any ideas of how to go about getting my friends on side to convince her to get therapy?

I don’t want to feel like I’m pushing into her boundaries, or try and tell her HOW to heal, but at the same time I can’t do nothing because it will lead to me resenting her

~

CuriousTinyMissPink

OP I understand she's your friend and I truly admire your compassion and empathy. However she is doing something unfair to you, her friend that cares so much about her. If you want my opinion, put yourself first, clearly express to her that this bothers you and it's disrespectful. If you feel uncomfortable having a direct confrontation I would advise you to take some distance from her, your boyfriend should also do that. Just stop seeing her and maybe even talking to her. I also know it's unfair to ask that of your bf but maybe it would even be best to return the gift to her. This kind of thing needs to be shut down fast or it will keep growing.

OOP

It’s just hard because I feel partly to blame as I was supposed to go to the party with her & meet my boyfriend there, but cancelled last minute due to really intense cramps so I feel like the least I can do is help her through this however she needs

OOP When told to tell her boyfriend

Yeah I haven’t even told him yet, but I don’t want to make him feel awkward or anything as I wouldn’t want what’s happening now to affect any decisions he’d make in the future

&

By “react in a negative way” I mean in the sense of hesitating to help someone in the future or something, I don’t feel like he’d cheat on me. I just don’t want him to have to worry about anything

  Dec 31, 2021

So following the advice of the majority of responses, I told my boyfriend and we agreed he should sit her down and talk to her. He invited her out to starbucks to talk about the how she feels, but now I fear the situation is worse.

My boyfriend told her gently that he understands how she feels and is grateful but he doesn’t feel the same. He also told her that her emotional response to him is just trauma bonding.

She refuted this by claiming that she had feelings for him long before the incident, back when they first met, but never acted on them. That she only SAID that her feelings came after the incident so that people wouldn’t judge her/hate her.

My boyfriend told her that he wasn’t interested regardless, and she said that’s fine, but her feelings are real, and she has a right to speak “her truth”. When I tried to talk to her she didn’t even apologise, and said that she won’t feel guilty for something outside of her control.

I feel totally lost because now this feels like so much more of a betrayal than before. Any help would be appreciated at this point. I just feel sick.

Edit to add: she also admitted that she didn’t originally even get his name in secret santa, that she found out someone else had it and asked to swap so she would be buying his gift.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

sarbee888

Although she’s right, her feelings aren’t in her control, her actions are. By actively pursuing your boyfriend, knowing you’re together she is way out of line. At this point, as much as it may hurt, I would cut her off. The fact she couldn’t even apologize is proof that she has no remorse or guilt for what she is doing. Not worth the headache op. No way.

OOP

I just can’t believe she would be so remorseless to someone she’s had a 7 year friendship with. I’m just speechless I don’t even know what to say to her

~

nonoinformation

If this is very unusual behavior for her, then this might be a trauma response. Regardless, she's a danger to your relationship and a bad friend. It's time to distance yourself from her and tell the mutual friends that she's been openly pursuing your boyfriend, which both of you don't want. Start to document what she's doing, in case she escalates and you need to file for a restraining order. She's developing obsessive behavior, and it might get worse.

OOP

It’s super unusual which is why I’m so confused on how to act, she has never been the type of girl to go near a guy in a relationship before and has even turned guys down based on them having gfs she didn’t even know. Me and my boyfriend think in her mind she sees this as a girlboss sort of moment where she’s finally going after whatever she wants and good for her but like… I just feel she shouldn’t do it at my expense

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

AITAH for not wanting to have my step kids at my honeymoon

Thanks to and for suggesting this BoRU

Triggers Warnings: manipulation, death of a parent, entitlement, exploitation, verbal and emotional abuse, possibly parental alienation

May 17, 2024

I ( F,28) have been in a relationship with my fiancé , Tyler (M, 42) for the last 4 years. He has 2 kids from previous marriage (Kids are 8.5 year old boy and 11 year old girl). His wife passed way when his youngest was 1 year old. He met me 3 years later. His kids are wonderful and lovely and we get along great. We live together. I do everything for them since Tyler works long hours. They call me mom but they are aware who their real mom is. We have her pictures in their rooms , and Tyler talks about her to them all the time.

We are planning our wedding. My father offered his condo in Hawaii to us so we can enjoy our honeymoon there. It was a very kind and generous offer. When I told Tyler he was so grateful. Then he said “I bet kids will have a blast”. I looked at him in disbelief and said “kids?! “He said yes! I said that’s our honeymoon! I don’t wanna be a mom on my honeymoon. We can go on plenty of family trips later but this is our honeymoon! He said “I was honest with you from day one! I told you I’m a package deal! You can’t just choose me not my kids”. I told him I understand but can they stay with your mom for one week? Just for our honeymoon. He got very frustrated and said he couldn’t believe how insensitive and selfish I was being. AITAH to expect to have a child free honeymoon?

Added later:

Ok I said I won’t reply because I was emotional. I went for a long bath (I’m off today). I’m better now

1 - I was in to him. I pursued him. I thought he was younger. He told me about his real age, his kids, his late wife from the first moment. He even said he would understand if I say no. I loved him. I loved how honest, kind caring he was.

2 - do I feel loved after giving him bj? Yes I do. He has higher sex drive. So I just give him oral when he wants sex. Yes he kisses me everytime afterwards. He cuddles until we go to sleep. I take care of myself later (mostly during my morning showers). No!! He never pulled his gun at me! He is not a violent man. Lately we have had more quickies mostly because I’m very tired but I don’t like to turn him down.

3 - we don’t have alone time or date nights. True. But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t say he loves me or he is not affectionate.

4 - I decided to cancel everything. I don’t think he is ready and we need to a have serious talk. I also need to know if he even can have kids (or he had a vasectomy). Either way we are not ready to be married.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Relevant Comments

SweetSerenityxx: RUN! It is one thing to neglect your kids and another to not realize that every environment is not appropriate for children to be involved. You will have further issues down the road regarding this, especially if you ever decide to have children with this man. He won't even hear you out and you should be cautious about being with someone who could automatically cast you as an evil stepparent because you have boundaries.

OOP: He knows I want to have kids eventually. He said he is not ready yet but he will be eventually. I do feel like a villain now because I want a week to ourselves

Cursd818: NTA

What's wrong with him? It is NOT a family vacation. It's a honeymoon. Having a honeymoon does not make you the evil stepmother. It's very concerning that that's where his mind immediately went.

Honestly, this is a red flag. You need to reevaluate. It sounds like you've bent over backwards to fit into this family - which is amazing - but ... are you sure this man wants you? Not just another parent to help him raise his children? The healthiest families have independent bonds with each member, and spend time one on one. Perhaps he's overreacting and he does value you individually as well, but it's not looking good.

OOP: He is a police officer so he has longer hours. I’m a nurse so I can set my own hours. I’m responsible for anything child care related. You are right. I wonder if he really wanted to be with me or he just wanted a mom for his kids? Sigh

Agile-Top7548: As a nurse, you have good income. Where does your money go? Things do not add up here.

You should date and be in a loving romantic relationship and do couple things, travel, etc. Even if you stay, what happens to your marriage once the kids leave, or will they be. Big red flag on the overnight stuff, too. Have you discussed this? No, because you have no say!

He works long hours, but not every day and all day. What if you wanted to go visit a friend for a weekend? What if you could not take off work for a sick day? Since age of 24 you've been doing this? Are you sure he isn't banging others? I'm just saying....

I'm sorry for the kids, but honestly, this sounds like a horrible set up. Thank him for being so obvious about the honeymoon.

OOP: I’m financially independent. I pay half of the rent and expenses of course since I moved in. Rest goes to my savings . I still have student loan to pay back too. I never visited a friend for a week . He did take the kids to see their grandparents ( their mom side ) for a week across the country . If I get sick usually his mom helps with a kid. If she is not available he takes the day off to help with the kids and help me . Once the kids leave ? Gosh I hope I would having my own kids by then…

May 17, 2024

My post :

Thank you very much for all the private messages and comments. I’m so glad I posted here.

So many of you suspected that he has had vasectomy. Well, I decided to have a serious discussion with him about everything last night. He said he has never cheated on me and he never will. I asked him if he had vasectomy and ffs just tell me. He didn’t even deny it. He said yea but you gotta understand I lost my wife when my youngest was an infant. It was such a traumatic time for me. I wanted to make sure I’ll never go through it again.

I started crying! I asked him how could he lie to me all these years? He didn’t even feel bad! He said “well you never asked! You asked now and I told you! Plus what’s the big deal? I have frozen sperm in the clinic and it’s a reversible procedure”. I was floored! You saw me taking pills yet you didn’t mention? He said “well, I thought you are taking pills because you have heavy period”. I couldn’t believe this man still blames me when he was the one lying in my face! I told him how unhappy I am, how burnt out I am and he uses his work hours so he can dump the responsibilities on me and I don’t even feel loved anymore. I gave him his ring back and told him I was done. He was shocked.

At first he thought I was kidding then he saw me packing my clothes at 11 pm so he started arguing that I should just wait a little longer so by December he will know about his job. After that we will go to a fertility clinic and “you will have your stupid baby”. Then he started guilt tripping me. Saying stuff like his kids have already been traumatized once how could I be so selfish and leave them. I didn’t even bother answering.

I left for my parent’s place. He has been begging and saying he will change, he will be more involved, and asking me to come back (“you are their mom! Come back! We miss you “)🙄. I’m mentally exhausted. I can’t believe I have been so stupid. I’m gonna start finding a place for myself near my work. Thank you.

Relevant Comments

Cursd818: Ah, the love bombing begins. The endless promises to change, how much he and the kids are missing you, how cruel you're being to them by leaving. He's going to do everything he can, say whatever he thinks will work, to bully you into going back. Leaving was the right thing to do, but staying away is going to be much, much harder. Tell your parents and your friends exactly why you've left and don't want to go back, so they can support you in staying away from him. Don't be silent about this or feel ashamed. You deserve much better than this, and I hope you get it.

OOP: That’s exactly what he is doing. My parents think I overreacted and I should give him another chance. My parents love him and his kids. They keep saying what a nice guy he is. I can’t believe they are taking his side 🤦‍♀️ I need to find my own place asap

OOP on her mother’s reaction to her breakup with her fiancé

OOP: “But you are not getting younger! He is a good guy who has been through a lot. You will have a baby if you be patient and you know he is a great dad! Those kids need you. You really wanna start over at your age?”🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ mom I’m 28 not 88 ffs! I’m so glad I’m working today or I would lose it

OOP on her ex’s 2 children and their relationships altogether

OOP: I didn’t make them calling me a mom! It was their choice .They know I’m not their mom. They have many pictures of their mom in their room. Their dad talks about their mom all the time ( even stuff like “ you are so smart ! Just like your mom or you are gorgeous just like your mom was “. I should have stayed with their lying dad then? What are you suggesting? Ask for custody of his kids? Don’t you think I’m sad and I’ll miss them?

- May 19, 2024

I left my ex because he was lying to me and treating me like garbage as I mentioned in another post.

We were together for 4 years and i did everything for his two kids (their bio mom passed away 7 years ago). I went back to pack my stuff and his daughter said her dad told her that I left because I couldn’t stand them anymore and he chose them over me. I was floored.

I asked my ex and he (in front of the kids) said that he was just telling them the truth. He said you wanted a baby because my kids were too much for you, you hated my kids, remember you even wanted to exclude them from our trip (he meant honeymoon!!)

He wanted to bring his kids to our freaking honeymoon ffs)? I told the kids that’s not true and tried to explain but both kids cried and went to their rooms. My ex screamed HAPPY NOW?! GTFO of my house. I know I shouldn’t care but after 4 years of doing everything for them, this is what I get? I’m so mad at him

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

The Context:

to . OOP states in their title that the owner of the vehicle is “ballsy” to display these sentiments in what they identify as a conservative area.

While many in the comments praise the ideological message the owner of the truck is expressing, others lash out at perceived hypocrisy among their fellow Redditors.

The Drama:

One user complains about the state of the subreddit:

It’s why I joined too. Very disappointed

Don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.

It's just a new flavor of political cringe every day

It's the same cringe though. One party in particular. Yawn.

No it's all cringe. Politics makes people unhinged.

Cry harder, snowflake

Leave. You won't be missed.

But what about both sides?

👏 👏 👏

Yes, extreme as in love, kindness, support and equity vs... checks notes racism, sexism, queer-phobia, misogyny and supporting orange fascist rapists.

Totally the same thing!

Sure sure 🙄, but You do know trump isn’t homophobic right? He even hosted a gay wedding at his house and frankly the most racism I’ve seen so far is actually from the left against white people. Yes people can be racist towards whites, no one really says anything about it tho cause it’s considered cool

You dropped this 🔴

Wow great comeback dude

[Continued:]

You're a fash worm, you're lucky to get any response at all.

Crawl back into your hole, fash.

You’re everywhere on this thread trying to start arguments with people. Maybe chill out a bit.

[…]

Now, catch this block and then make an edit in your comment crying about it

Is this cringe?

Found the Trumplican.

Found the owner of the truck

I'm sorry, I'm not going to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Sure thing b00mer

Is this virtue signaling?

Well. One side calls for equality. The other....not so much. So yeah, one side is celebrated.

Lmao equality you say. Then why don’t you let conservatives be equal?

🤣🤣😂🤡 right.

What a dumb thing to say.

Why won't you key conservatives openly be bigoted? Hurdur how tolerant. Check make libuhrul

Because they are racist dumbass that pray a dictator ?

[Continued:]

I could say the same for you liberals. There are racists on both sides

Suurree conservative are know for loves .(no) and you fail btw

I can’t you’re illiterate bull shit

Sure buddy . Look how nice you are starting to insulting .'so much love for conservaterrorist . Now buy your trump bibble and nft like a good boy .

[…]

Aww. Poor little victim 😢

It's cute how yall play pretend and act like you're oppressed. You aren't, not yet.

Nobody is oppressed in America get over yourself

[…]

Are you triggered by this person using their 1st amendment right to free speech to advocate for equality among all humans regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity?

Hardly triggered, was attempting to point out hypocrisy. All the garbage in this sub is about division, not inclusion.

Leave then. You won't be missed.

Crawl back into your conservative shithole and be quiet

BIDEN:

Are you saying you can read minds?

Racists always think they can hide

So, a racist hiding is to come out of the woodwork and complain about what a complete stranger did to their truck? I'm confused.

Anything else you’re confused about?

[Continued:]

Have you actually sat down and thought about life and the reality or universe we live in? The universe is so big and complex, to the point that if you aren't confused about anything, you haven't really lived life, but only a sad and miserable existence.

The Flairs:

Banned for whatever reason and there's no information on how long ago it was banned since.

READ THE PROFILE BIO

Main Post

Comments:

.... But... Reddit and Wikipedia say Trump is a fascist and Nazis are right wing?

Had this discussion the other day with my son. I used the Nelsyvian triangle to illustrate how the further right you go, the less govt there is. Extreme far right is anarchy.

His conclusion is that they (the left) make no sense and that we're all being lied
to. He's 14.

There's nothing de facto about it. National socialism and fascism were each created by men who were avowed Marxists. Saying otherwise is a lie.

Yep, Nazism was just race based Marxism

Hence the name- National Socialist German Workers' Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei

Like the democratic republic of peoples Korea.

Austrians will never beat the 14 y/o political theorist allegations like this

“But my version of socialism doesn’t lead to totalitarian dictadictatorship” some purple haired 20 Y/O without a job

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Long

- 23rd May 2024

- 24th May 2024

AITAH for wanting to divorce my post partum wife?

It's stupid to think I'm at this point but here I am. My stbx wife (28F) and I (29M) have wanted kids for years and we're thrilled when she finally got pregnant last year. From day one I wanted to be the most supportive husband and future father I could. Her father was never involved in her life. I used to work as a tech in labor and delivery, and my brother to put it kindly is not the most involved father. I saw too many problems up close when it came to lacking husband's, and I would be damned before I made the same mistakes

The problem is roughly 4 weeks into her pregnancy everything started going downhill

She stopped wanting sex. Fair enough. Hormones and stress make that a problem I went full stop. But then she didn't want any physical interaction. No cuddling, no kissing, slowly becoming more and more distant

-Her eating constantly changed and she was terrible about it. She would demand I get her something all day then the moment I give it to her she wants something else, screaming at me. OK, again, hormonal issues I get it no problem

she never let me to go any appointments, no groups she went to, spent more time away

-became cold and bitter. Constantly angry at me. This went on for months

-slapped me a couple times when I forgot one of her dozens of tasks she assigned me during the day. Stopped doing anything for the house a month into the pregnancy. Sure, she's pregnant, I get it moving around is hard, but she wouldn't even do laundry about 4 weeks in and by 5 weeks I did everything. I'm also the primary source of income. I barely sleep. im running on fumes.

-made me sleep in the guest room. Would always try and pick fights. I never once raised my voice, my hand, or my tone. I sat there and constantly mentally reminded myself this isn't her and this would all be worth it

-she didn't want me to make any baby decisions. No name, no work on the nursery, nothing

One month before she delivered, she yelled how fucking useless I am and how I don't do anything and that she's staying with her mother. She didn't let me get her anything, come check on her, threatened to divorce me and get a restraining order if I even called her

A couple weeks back, I found out about the birth of my son from a Facebook post. She posted it with her mother and some family. It fucking broke me. I tried to go to the hospital and visit. They had security kick me out.

After months of outright hatred, anger and abuse thrown at me 24/7, I fucking had it. Odds are im not even on the birth certificate. I opened a new account and all my deposits go there. I took half out of our joint account. She never bought baby stuff ahead of time, who knows what that money was going towards, so now that she has to buy supplies for our son she's used up every cent

I've gotten a lawyer. The house is mine, I'm the only one who spent money on it in any way. I've sent the rest of her stuff to her mother's house. I'm demanding a paternity test. Im not spending another damn cent until I get verification it's my son. Im absolutely divorcing her. She chose the stay at home life, if she cheated she's screwed. Her mother has money for a couple week stay, not even close to enough for full time support. If he is my son, I will absolutely be getting my rights as a father for a relationship.

Last week, my stbx called. She was practically hyperventilating. She wanted to come home. She was crying how it was all a mistake. She's not staying with her mother. She's at a friend's house. She wants to come home. She wants our son to have his father. I told her I don't fucking believe he is my son. Why the fuck would she pull this shit if he is? Show me a paternity test, and I'll do everything I can for him, and him only.

She wants to meet tomorrow at a park so I can talk to her. I said sure, so I can finally say everything I should have said months ago to her face. My parents are hoping we can make up, but they absolutely understand if I won't. My brother is a deadbeat jackass so I don't care what he has to say, but my sister thinks I should at least hear her out

Comments

seidinove

NTA. Someone mentioned peripausal psychosis. She needs to talk to a doctor. But sheesh, if I found out that my baby was born on Facebook, I’d be absolutely flattened.

HalcyonCA

She also physically abused him. This woman is not well. He's right to protect himself and divorce her.

bleeepobloopo7766

Yes. If she is behaving like this to her husband, is she even a safe mother for the child?

OP you should document any and all you can about this. If it is your son you might need to protect him from mother who might be genuinely dangerous.

SubstantialYouth9106

NTA! HECK NO! Do not meet her at the park tomorrow. If she wants to meet you then it can be at your lawyer's office with your representative present and a conversation recorded. If the child is yours after an immediate paternity test, make sure your name is on the certificate and that you file for equal custody and have an equal say in all decisions of the child’s life. I would even ask to communicate via a parenting app. Save all forms of communication from her via text and email so you have a paper trail. No phone calls. I am very sorry that you had to go through this and your experience becoming a father, if the child is yours, was ruined. You realize your worth and you do not want to be with a partner like this. Please protect yourself. I hope you have cameras around your property, a ring camera by the door, and that you claim she abandoned your space. Your parents need to be on your side and follow your lead. The relationship is not healthy anymore and now that a child is involved you should be putting the child first and not raising it in a potentially toxic environment.

OOP: As far as my parents, they love her and believe she had some mental break during the pregnancy. However, when they found out about the facebook post, my Dad was heartbroken and my mother was utterly livid. They want me to have a happy family, but they are also pissed at her on my behalf. They'll support whatever I decide

Socialist_Poopaganda

Wait so they know but think it’s fine that she verbally and physically abused you?? I appreciate the thinking that it was a mental break but that doesn’t mean anyone should stay with an abuser. I hope you’re getting therapy and you have a good support system because this was awful to read.

OOP: I kinda fucked up and didn't tell them about the slapping and still haven't told them because I was still in that mindset that she was just going through a rough time. It was dumb and I will absolutely inform them ASAP

I'm admittedly not great at opening up to them too much because I have the mindset not to worry them and handle things on my own. But going forward if I'm trying to get a good support system I gotta dump it all on them

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 1 day later

I had to speed up the process of actually talking to her since the story spread quickly around on the internet, inevitably reaching someone involved with friends or family and now way more people i personally know are getting the details than I'm comfortable with

Oh well my bad lol

Before I ended up chatting with her, I opened up to my parents and sister about what was happening in detail. My parents were flustered at me hiding the more unsavory details to say the least and are probably going to be checking up on me daily for the rest of the year to make sure I'm ok. My sister would probably have to be held back from thrashing her, so I had to get a friend to help with the chat since my sister would not be able to contain herself

So basically, within hours of the story going into the digital stratosphere I called my wife back as quickly as I could to finally sit down and talk. We chose a local park this morning and I had a friend of mine record the conversation from beginning to end. I was basically ready to hear the generic affair story and get out of dodge

But of course it got complicated.

We met at a section with picnic tables and picked one as far away from other people to avoid them getting wrapped up in any awkwardness. She looked terrible. Haggard, stressed, and thankfully without the baby. She tried to have the big emotional chat and what not. I wasn't tearing up or acting like the hardened badass. I frankly was just wanting to figure out what this was all for

I didn't even get to ask the question before the floodgates spilled. I'm going to attempt to relay this story as best as I can because even looking back on the recording it's a mess, but also, it's because I don't 100% believe it, so fair warning, it could all be fake

This all started with her mother. As I said before my wife's father was absent. He sarted off well, having 2 sons with her mother before herm l. When her mother got pregnant with her, her father went from being the picture perfect guy he was at first and slowly changed into a negligent, abusive, unfaithful, and unsupportive jackass, ending with him disappearing when her mother was delivering. He's been in and out of prison since. No one knows why he did it. The impression her mother always gave was a strong resilient woman who withstood anything life threw at her and did anything for her kids. She has claimed to be in therapy for years. In reality, she has managed to conceal a deep hatred for men outside of her sons, but according to my wife there was favoritism towards her. My wife also found out she stopped therapy almost a decade ago but never told anyone.

Her mother seemed to always have some slight against me and now i know why. She was never hostile, but certainly wasn't warm to me, and hearing about her secret hatred, I kinda knew where this was going. Roughly about half a year before she got pregnant, my MIL slowly began sowing seeds of doubt and bitterness into my wife. Apparently she had a full mental break. She told her about me staying late at work possibly hiding an affair. Or that myself providing majority on the income setting her up for a hard divorce. Everything my MILs husband did to her, she convinced my wife I would do to her, and she pumped this poison into her for months. My wife always idolized her mother, and compounding that with anxiety she's suffered from for years, she dove in deep.

As soon as she got pregnant, like on the dot, she fell into a mental hole within days. And that's when her mother got hold of her again. Hearing about her pregnancy apparently triggered something fierce in my MIL and it spiraled from there. She had my wife fully convinced it was happening again

Every single thing my wife did to hurt me was at the behest of my MIL. Combined with pregnancy hormones, an undiagnosed mental illness she claims to have (no confirmation), and stress, she completely lost her mind. She 100% believed I would bail, so she was punishing me first, culminating in her moving in with her mother and leaving me out of the birth

While I was sending the papers and started the divorce proceedings, she kicked into full blown post partum depression. And when her mother finally got her, when she finally beat me, which I guess was her victory over her ex (did I mention she's fucking crazy), she had no more use of my wife. The family involved in the birth included my MILs sister and my wife's brothers. While my MIL and her sister knew what was going on, my BILs got fed the bs narrative my MIL spun. When my MIL was done with her plan, the entire facade came down and my BILs found out everything upon questioning my wife. They were horrified.

Needless to say, postpartum, facing a very grueling divorce on her side, no longer welcome in our home, and having done everything to alienate me from my son at the behest of a broken lunatic, reality hit her like a truck. She torched her entire life because her mother is a broken shell of a human who used her to enact her own sense of justice. The very mother who washed her hands of her after she got what she wanted

Or at least this is the story she gave me

Frankly, there are many holes in her story. The starting point of the pattern of abuse, the claims of who was involved in the delivery, me being absent from appointments, the friend (who she confirmed is female) she's staying with, and of course, my alleged sons paternity.

It seems way too fucking crazy to be made up. Who the hell would go to the effort to make this up facing what she's facing?

As soon as she finished, she said she's setting up a paternity test and gave me the info I need. Within luck it should be done in roughly a week or so once i do my part. She gave the most sincere apologies any human being has ever given. She's begged for another chance. I was frankly, to stunned to say anything, so she left and promised to call soon

I don't think I can give her another chance. I don't think I can ever risk anything like this again.

God I'm still hoping she's just being a cheating psycho and spinning a sympathy story to try and throw me off, because this got way too complicated

Comments

Bargle-Nawdle-Zouss

I am so sorry for your pain. Nobody deserves to go through Insanity like this.

I'm glad she's cooperating on the paternity test. However, no matter the results, you should go through with the divorce. You do not need this in your life. Given this incident, I would even pursue full custody of your child.

Get duplicate copies of the recording of this meeting. Make sure that they are easily transferable to your attorney for the divorce.

Best of luck, and of course NTA.

Sweet-Fancy-Moses23

I don't think I can give her another chance. I don't think I can ever risk anything like this again

You are right.She subjected you to months of mental torture and agony despite you being supportive and understanding.Then she prevented you from being present during the birth of your child. I can’t imagine what OP went through when he found out the birth of his much anticipated child through a FB post. All this at the behest of an evil mother.Who says it won’t happen again ?

SonOfSchrute

She’s full of shit

OOP: I hope so. I sat there practically slack jawed listening to this. It's too wild to be 100% honest, but too detailed to be completely fake

mooglemethis

FWIW, I do think there's a kernel of truth in there, I absolutely believe your MIL manipulated her, but at the same time, most people can only be manipulated so far before they call bullshit and get fed up. The people that don't are usually the ones who want to believe the manipulation, who want the lies to be true.

She was willing to hit you and hurt you in unimaginable ways, based on nothing but 'maybes' and 'what ifs'.

And it's that part that scares me. I don't think that part of her can be suppressed with force of will alone.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments