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[–]Tersphinct 7870 points7871 points  (138 children)

And frankly, it's pissed me offlikecommentsubscribe.

[–]249ba36000029bbe9749 1827 points1828 points  (56 children)

I was wondering if I was just subliminally told something at that point.

[–]innocuousspeculation 892 points893 points  (50 children)

I had a sudden urge to join the navy for some reason.

[–]tindertrollingwith 411 points412 points  (15 children)

Yvan eht nioj

[–]WitOrWisdom 120 points121 points  (5 children)

Sounds like a catchy tune. I'm feelin very patriotic all of a sudden.

[–]slicky803 58 points59 points  (0 children)

That's right. Lieutenant LT Smash.

[–]Oximoron1122 6 points7 points  (0 children)

HEY YOU! JOIN THE NAVY!

[–]xxFrenchToastxx 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Never Again Volunteer Yourself

[–]ErianTomor 624 points625 points  (35 children)

“I rang up Tesla...”

Imagine working at the Tesla customer service call center and it’s James May on the other line.

[–]SanctifiedByDynamite 309 points310 points  (21 children)

I actually work for a company that handles some of his email services, he's called up a few times for assistance.

All I've got is anecdotal, as I haven't spoken to him myself, but once when he was on a call with one of my colleagues he apparently said "Don't mind the noise for a minute, I'm just having a slash."

I'll speak to the guy who was with him to make sure that's accurate, just in case.

But imagine being on the phone to James and he's having a piss.

Edit: So I messaged my colleague this morning and I was a little fuzzy on some detail, but here's some snippets: Screenshot

[–]imisscrazylenny 48 points49 points  (5 children)

For a brief moment, I forgot "slash" meant urinating over there, and I pictured James May slashing someone to death.

[–]noputa 39 points40 points  (2 children)

I’ve never heard slash for peeing lol.

[–]P2K13 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Really common in the UK in my experience, at least in the North..

[–]mrdotkom 44 points45 points  (4 children)

I read that as "having a splash" and wondered why James May was calling tech support while in a pool

[–]Redbeard_Rum 75 points76 points  (0 children)

Oh cock!

[–]fat_charizard 7204 points7205 points  (618 children)

To fix the battery, you need to open the hood. To open the hood, you need the battery to be working. What a stupid design

[–]picasso_penis 2548 points2549 points  (312 children)

I work in manufacturing, and a big part of my job has to do with process failure mode effects analysis (pFMEA), where you break down a process and essentially figure out if you have adequate mitigation’s or controls to either prevent or detect issues. I feel like some of these modern car features wouldn’t hold up to a real risk assessment or failure mode analysis, which makes me wonder if it is even being done. Or maybe it is, which is why they come up with these awful and labor intensive “fixes” to these problems

Edit: someone else mentioned dFMEA, that might be more appropriate for this

[–]blazetronic 427 points428 points  (37 children)

Should’ve been caught in the dFMEA!

[–]02C_here 279 points280 points  (21 children)

C'mon, man. We all know the dFMEA is written in unicorn blood on dinosaur skin only AFTER the service manual is written. And then circulated to a very limited group.

[–]Ethanol_Based_Life 182 points183 points  (17 children)

Lol. I've run 3 DFMEAs this year and they're all for products already in production

[–]klobbermang 96 points97 points  (9 children)

I think if you get ISO audited they get mad if you don't have DFMEAs, so you guys probably have an upcoming audit and some PM went "Oh fuck" when they realized they were missing.

[–]SomewhatStupid 50 points51 points  (5 children)

Pretty likely. ISO audits are all bark and no teeth too, so a half assed late process change is usually enough to keep you cert.

[–]XGC75 38 points39 points  (6 children)

Considering the dFMEA is a requirement of ASPICE Tesla would have been required to review the dFMEA with the DoT prior to being eligible to seem the car in the US (ASPICE is based on a similar regulation in Europe as well).

[–]UNMANAGEABLE 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Design and process engineers tend to miss things that are discoverable by production and end users.

Source. I work in aerospace and always get a chuckle from engineering PMs who refuse to include manufacturing into an my part of the design process.

[–]dan2376 546 points547 points  (154 children)

I work in quality at an aerospace manufacturing plant. I would not at all be surprised if Tesla is the kind of company that is so much more design engineering focused than quality manufacturing focused. I’d love to be a fly on the wall during their quality audits, it has to be an absolute mess with all of the quality control issues you see in their cars.

[–]der_juden 313 points314 points  (116 children)

Telsa, SpaceX, and all of his companies are this. You can't make it work quickly without skipping all the steps you need to actual make sure it's servicable, QA'd, etc. I mean look at the new rover that is a cyber truck. Why bother to do the real engineering work to make a rover when you can just take what the car guys did reskin it and call it good.

[–]redditthrowaway9963 20 points21 points  (1 child)

DFMEA is where this needs to be captured. PFMEA is for processes at a plant, for example if something is being assembled and needs X torque or force.

[–]picklebeeer 60 points61 points  (48 children)

Serious question, what kind of schooling or qualifications do you need for a job like that? I’ve been in the construction field nine years and am always looking at ways to fix problems and how systems will cause problems in the future due to the way they’re installed. But no college degree.

[–]picasso_penis 182 points183 points  (31 children)

If you want my honest answer; anyone with the right mindset can do the job, and anyone who is good at breaking things down will do well.

The shitty answer; it’s hard to get your foot in the door without an engineering degree in my field (manufacturing or quality engineering). There might be quality systems specialists or quality assurance positions that will get you adjacent to the types of roles you’re looking for, and they might be more accessible to someone without a degree, but I can’t tel you with certainty.

[–]comatosesperrow 79 points80 points  (10 children)

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Well broken down, just as we'd expect.

[–]phillyeagle99 11 points12 points  (0 children)

In my field you kinda just have to learn to do it in any technical role. But it’s generally not a full role or qualification. Like we would hire a technical expert and assume or ask that they can do it as a part of their other project responsibilities

[–]LosPer 200 points201 points  (18 children)

I had a Porsche that had this issue. They fixed it by creating a location in the cabin where you could use a set of jumper cables to provide enough current to open the boot. It was insane. LOL.

[–]quadmasta 227 points228 points  (12 children)

On my Model 3 there's a little plastic plug in the front bumper you remove and there's some leads you can connect power to that open the hood. Then the 12v battery is under a panel held in place with pressure clips

[–]ElMadera 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Also, those leads will only work when the 12v battery is dead, so in that sense it’s still secure.

[–]Unencrypted_Thoughts 104 points105 points  (10 children)

I knew it existed on the 3, I always figured the S and X had one as well. How incredibly stupid.

I wonder if the updated S has it.

[–]_AlreadyTaken_ 48 points49 points  (4 children)

"I've emailed you your email account password"

[–]thisdesignup 2162 points2163 points  (66 children)

For James May to say it was an hours work makes me think it would take the average person much longer.

[–]flightsin 1263 points1264 points  (21 children)

No kidding. Now imagine being the poor bastard answering the phone when James May has a problem with his Tesla.

Then being forced to run down your script designed for regular idiots, to the sounds of increasingly exasperated British sarcasm.

[–]Aercturius 460 points461 points  (13 children)

Now imagine if James May was guiding you through the process of fixing your own Tesla. Now you'd be the poor bastard that has to hear all about the fascinating history of car batteries or something before getting to the actual problem.

[–]Errodav 303 points304 points  (6 children)

Where do I sign up?

[–]Aercturius 50 points51 points  (3 children)

I think you need to co-host TGT to get all the unsolicited James May facts and stories

[–]raya__85 28 points29 points  (0 children)

The way he says hour = the way the Snape says Potter. Pure British disdain.

[–]kryptonianCodeMonkey 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Tesla Tech: "Have you tried opening the door and pressing the hood release under the dash"

James: "The car's electronic functions are dead, and in your eternal wisdom, you've made opening the door an exclusively electronic function."

T: "Have you tried using the key fob to unlatch the hood?"

J: "The car's electronic functions are dead. The car can neither receive nor activate any electronic systems without it's electronic functions, which are dead."

T: "Have you attempted to charge the car through the accessible charging port?"

J: "Now I see why you would think that may work, as would I if this car were designed well, but again, in your grand cosmic-level foresight, you seem to have not considered that an already charged lithium battery shutting down its overflow to the conventional battery when completely charged may leave the conventional battery in a state of draining while the lithium battery will no longer pass along any overflow power to it until I am left in the state where my fully charged electric vehicle's electronic functions, against all logic and sense, ARE DEAD."

T: "Have you checked to see if the hood may already be unlatched by chance?"

J: "Now frankly, this has pissed me offlikecommentsubscribe."

[–]Luchadeer 273 points274 points  (22 children)

Plus, the average person probably wouldn't even try. This feels like an intentionally clunky design to get people to bring it to the dealership for service. It's like if Apple designed a car.

[–]bakergo 138 points139 points  (6 children)

How would you bring it into the dealership for service if the battery was dead? They'd need to send a tech out.

[–]thomasmagnum 128 points129 points  (0 children)

Which is how all Tesla service works

[–]Nekyiia 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Tesla actually does that in some places

[–]mdnbcfpr 2696 points2697 points  (371 children)

Considering those 12V batteries have a very finite lifespan, which is far less than what hopefully the life of the car is, and will need to be replaced even if you don't leave you car sitting for long periods of time.....that is an insanely stupid design.

[–]assimsera 1544 points1545 points  (274 children)

Tesla wants you to take your car to the dealership when that eventually happens.

[–]aztechfilm 817 points818 points  (164 children)

Yeah they’re good at keeping all repairs in house...which is infuriating

[–]gelinrefira 647 points648 points  (43 children)

Well, let's support right to repair. Hardware should not have DRM-like control on them.

[–]TavisNamara 259 points260 points  (32 children)

Honestly, fuck DRM in a lot of things.

Take video games as an example.

DRM makes the experience of a legitimate buyer worse, in many cases, than the experience of a pirate who ripped out the DRM or got a DRM-free copy.

Lookin' at you, Denuvo.

[–]Hakairoku 9 points10 points  (3 children)

DRM punishes the actual consumers way more than the pirates they preach against.

[–]Shajirr 6 points7 points  (1 child)

DRM makes the experience of a legitimate buyer worse, in many cases

I still remember Bayonetta running like shit because of some crappy integration with Steam.
Cracked, ran perfectly fine, nothing else was changed besides decoupling it from Steam.

[–]mog_knight 48 points49 points  (31 children)

And also hope you live near a Tesla center too! In my city there's just 2. My Bolt has 8 GM service centers available.

[–]GEAUXUL 69 points70 points  (7 children)

How convenient. That’s 2 more than we have in my entire friggin state.

[–]cranktheguy 250 points251 points  (70 children)

It's the same thing Apple does, and they're more popular and profitable than ever.

[–]aztechfilm 231 points232 points  (0 children)

Yes...and that’s also infuriating

[–]GravityReject 162 points163 points  (29 children)

How do you take it to the dealership if you can't get in your car because the 12V is dead? Gotta tow your Tesla every time it needs a new battery?

[–]Shawnj2 92 points93 points  (2 children)

Nah, just toss the whole car and order a new one at that point

[–]ahappypoop 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t Tesla have like a traveling service service (for lack of a better phrase)? Like you call them and they come to you and service your car.

[–]WeBendItBackAgain 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I suppose you can do it the same way James May did in the video.

[–]Hiddencamper 9 points10 points  (3 children)

The car is supposed to automatically detect 12V battery degradation and alert you to get it replaced.

[–]pickled-egg 3105 points3106 points  (554 children)

Modern cars are full of this kind of nonsense. I get it, I try to not be too much of an old man about it and I largely accept that electronics run everything and sometimes that makes things awkward when things go wrong but it doesn't stop these things being fucking annoying, especially the workarounds.

Ever tried to manually release the electronic handbrake on pretty much any car built in the past decade or so? if the battery is dead or some sort of other electrical problem is happening you might need to. Most provide the instruction buried in the users manual but it doesn't stop it being a complete fucking nightmare in most cases, especially in the sort of situations you might need to do this (outside, in snow, side of road, in the dark etc). There's also bad design in some cars, on some Subaru systems you can wind the little tool too far and cause huge problems when the power is reconnected.

I get that most people just call a guy and that's fine but it does feel like so often with modern cars you're working out ways of getting around things that should have been better designed.

[–]rumski 879 points880 points  (153 children)

I was watching Doug Demuro's review of the 2021 Mercedes E-Class and it has an electronic fuel door....I don't pearl clutch often but damn it that made me pearl clutch. I don't know if it still operated *when* the electronics fail or what...

[–]ICanLiftACarUp 504 points505 points  (30 children)

I've had to help a lady at a gas station open her Audi's gas door. Apparently it was also electronic (or something) and had locked up. Turns out there is an emergency release rip cord behind the interior panelling. I yank and yank and yank and it doesn't pop the door, until I pulled so hard it came off entirely. Door's open. She thanked me and we went our separate ways, but I couldn't stop cringing thinking about how the dealership probably charges an arm and a leg to replace that cheap rip cord and fix the gas door.

[–]skyblublu 173 points174 points  (10 children)

Heyyyy the exact same thing happened on my VW. Ever since then I've had tape over the latching mechanism to make it never lock. If I could rip out or turn off most of the electronics in that thing I would.

[–]dannkherb 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Yeah, my mk7 VW gas door is not electronic but can freeze shut in the winter. So I carry some de-icer shit with me or go rooting around for the cable.

[–]Immersi0nn 73 points74 points  (1 child)

"Why did you break that?"

"uh, it's called a ripcord"

[–]ICanLiftACarUp 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Lol, I mean the instructions made it clear it was just supposed to pop and not actually tear out but I did call it a rip cord

[–]scrumANDtonic 71 points72 points  (6 children)

Dealerships are scum. Specifically service reps not so much the actual mechanics. When I was in college car wouldn’t start, tried jumping but nada so I had it towed. Dealership calls me the next day and say it’s just the key. I already had a spare that came with the car as well as one of those spares you can cut at Home Depot so I called up my mom to come by and drop those off. We got to the dealer and flat out a service rep tries to scam us into buying a new key for some exorbitant price (250$)

”you can’t replace the battery in the key since they key doesn’t open” (id already replaced the spare’s battery two years prior)

”the car needs two keys registered to its on board computer in order to run”

Needless to say we called a manager over and called the rep on their bullshit. Manager apologized and waived the service fee... I’m still to this day flabbergasted over that event. And the saddest part is I know damn well there are plenty of non-tech/auto savvy people who would’ve been duped.

[–]Zardif 56 points57 points  (5 children)

I once had a cavalier and the ignition was under recall for frying wires. Well the wires to the ignition fried. I have it towed to the dealer and have to pay $100 for them to diagnose it. The say yeah one section burned out because of the ignition but these other wires mysteriously burned up also.

So they tell me we did the ignition recall, replaced the ones the ignition burned up, it'll be $600 to fix the other part that wasn't under the recall. I told them no I don't want it fixed tell me exactly where it is and I'll do it myself. I go to pick up my car and they tell me the second issue was fixed no charge.

Chevy is full of fucking scammers. No fucking way two wires burn out at once and aren't connected. Fuck chevy.

[–]hobbycollector 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Not to mention the whole OnStar thing. Just put a fucking GPS in it.

[–]jonnyd005 122 points123 points  (27 children)

Doug definitely has an affinity for E Class wagons.

[–]luther_williams 38 points39 points  (4 children)

There are certain things on cars that don't need to be electric.

[–]the_ranting_swede 295 points296 points  (28 children)

One of the beautiful things about electric vehicles (when compared to traditional internal combustion and hybrid vehicles) is the mechanical simplicity of the drivetrain. My electric motorcycle has only 20 axes of movement across all of its parts and my older Yamaha probably has over a thousand. So this should mean better reliability and lower maintenance costs due to reduced complexity.

But every electric vehicles manufacturer is adding so much electro-mechanical fluff between you and driving the car (why do you need electricity to open the doors?) that it undoes all the mechanical simplicity.

[–]tweakingforjesus 151 points152 points  (9 children)

That and they also restrict access to the tools and information required to repair it not to mention software keys. Modern hybrid vehicles are becoming impossible for non-dealer mechanics to work on.

[–]mr_potroast 131 points132 points  (4 children)

This isn't by accident

[–]effse7en 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Indeed. Even at the dealer, we weren't supposed to do anything on hybrids if we weren't hybrid certified. Not even rotate the tires or do an oil change.

[–]Troggie42 61 points62 points  (0 children)

This is why we should burn down the law offices of John Deere so they can't keep fighting Right to Repair legislation

[–]thedugong 15 points16 points  (8 children)

I agree. I'd love to have a simple electric car. Steering wheel, brake, accelerator, speedo, odo, range remaining, charge level, aircon and a couple of usb ports (to charge my phone which I use for GPS, podcasts and music). Happy to have old wind down windows.

[–]Nisas 7 points8 points  (6 children)

Manual windows are a step too far, but it does annoy me when I forget to put the windows up and I have to restart the car to fix it. Although if my car was electric that wouldn't be as annoying since there's no engine to start.

[–]OhSixTJ 120 points121 points  (39 children)

My 2019 GMC AT4 had no way to shift the truck out of park when my battery died the six times that it did. Stupid.

[–]raven12456 83 points84 points  (13 children)

I was curious what I would find looking it up, and all the solutions are "Jumpstart the car" or "The tow truck will know how to tow it properly."

[–]OhSixTJ 63 points64 points  (11 children)

Yeah they put plastic skids under the rear wheels and dragged it down the driveway and up the flatbed.

[–]P3asantGamer 38 points39 points  (10 children)

I worked for a AAA tow company as a dispatcher, and dealt with that. There is actually a neutral override somewhere near the shifter. Our drivers would do that instead of skids. It sucked because every vehicle has a different neutral override hidden in a different spot.

[–]OhSixTJ 19 points20 points  (7 children)

I scoured the internet for an override as my inoperable truck had trapped the SO’s car in the garage. I found nothing. Got up under the dash and physically checked for one. Also nothing. To this date I can’t find info on one on the internet.

[–]kroger_deli 35 points36 points  (4 children)

[–]OhSixTJ 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Damn that would’ve helped a year ago! Haha noted though. We have GM trucks in our work fleet…

[–]browner87 96 points97 points  (23 children)

Try convincing a modern Subaru with electronic trunk to let you tie it down with a strap. Oh my god it goes bananas. Just to start it's almost impossible to half close it on the thing hanging out the back because when it detects something in the way it tries to open up again immediately. The whole drive home an alarm beeps so loudly you'll have a headache in 5 minutes (no way to disable it), and when you want to get the trunk to release the cable you clipped into the latch? Full trunk electronics reset.

Who the hell buys a hatchback with no plans to even have some lumber hanging out the back or something?? Why was this basic feature not considered??

My 2014 Mustang on the other hand was the last year before they started to add a lot more tech to the line. Still starts with a key. Dials and buttons for radio and climate control. There's a USB port, it works sometimes, if the wind is going the right way. It's ironic, as a tech person and not a mechanical person, but I much prefer vehicles that are as dumb as possible.

[–]MasochistCoder 40 points41 points  (0 children)

I much prefer vehicles that are as dumb as possible.

mood kindred

[–]SprinklesFancy5074 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Ford isn't totally innocent, either.

Imagine that your work truck is a modern Ford. And part of your work involves driving for miles and miles through soft sand. If you don't want to constantly get stuck, you need to let air out of the tires. That will make it work much better in soft sand. One problem: the factory TPMS system starts having a loud, annoying alarm that your tire pressure is low. It cannot be silenced in any way. So now you get to drive for hours and hours with this alarm blaring at you. In a supposedly off-road capable truck.

(Also, in this supposedly off-road focused truck, the engine air intake sucks air from the front wheel well ... which puts it in the perfect position to suck up as much dust as possible.)

[–]alphamale968 479 points480 points  (52 children)

Some bmws put the battery in the trunk. But there are still battery ports under the hood if you have to use the alligator clips.

[–]Enegence 129 points130 points  (4 children)

My 2006 325i was like this. The big difference here is that I can open the door manually, the hood manually, and the trunk manually.

I don't think this is that big of a deal most of the time, but his suggestion for the battery charging adapter to be accessible without having to remove all of those plastic components seems like a relatively easy and helpful modification. I actually have another car that would benefit from that as well.

[–]asian_identifier 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Mines (old e46) is in the trunk, just have to remove a panel that you lift without any tool. Then you can clip the battery directly there

[–]xQx1 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Hey, I own one of them. (E88 135i).

It's actually a convenient location for the battery, especially since there are battery posts under the hood so you can charge the battery if it's totally flat without trying to get into the electronically operated boot.

... The only thing is: NEVER shut the boot with the battery disconnected, because if you try putting a power supply on the under-hood battery posts and it doesn't work because the battery is disconnected (which is not uncommon) - then the way in is as convoluted as this tesla process.

Anybody who's worked on a BMW knows to put a towel or floor mat over the latch before disconnecting the battery, then leaving it there until the battery is reconnected.

Edit: That said, I recently had to replace the battery in a E53 X5, which involved this very simple process:

  1. Put down the back seats and climb through to manually open the rear hatch.
  2. Move all the crap stored in the back of your X5 out so you can get to the floor.
  3. Pull up the floor panel and find something to hold it in place because it doesn't come out completely and most cars have their little BMW roof-hook broken by now - so this floor mat will bonk you on the head a couple of times while you execute the remaining steps.
  4. Unscrew and remove the spare tire.
  5. Unscrew and remove the steel structure made up of three separate parts that holds the spare tire in place above the battery.
  6. Remove the battery.
  7. Insert the new battery.
  8. Reverse steps 1 - 5 to put everything back together.

BMW's might be fun to drive, but they're not fun to maintain.

[–]Sr_DingDong 1704 points1705 points  (165 children)

Literally having this problem with my friends BMW parked outside my house. Battery is dead, battery lives in trunk, can't open it without power. There's no keyhole, no emergency release, nothing... Problem is I was halfway through swapping it out when I closed the lid to go get something (I just assumed there was some way to open it, like a key hole like every car ever), so it's disconnected so I can't jump it from the front either to open it.

It's surprisingly terrible German engineering.

[–]shnog 547 points548 points  (19 children)

In most BMW's there is a red labeled thick gauge wire terminal under the hood near the firewall on the passenger side. Hook a charger or jumper cables to this and attach the black lead to one of the strut tower bolts. You will then be able to power up the car and open the trunk.

[–]luriso 84 points85 points  (6 children)

My 911 has this. Fuse box on the driver side beside the foot rest. Red thick fuse looking thing with contacts. Connect to jumper box and have power to pop open my frunk.

[–]JMJimmy 86 points87 points  (14 children)

Prius' battery is in the trunk too. Toyota thought of this problem and the fact that people would be looking under the hood, not in the trunk, for the battery. So, they put a boosting terminal under the hood which is wired to the battery in the trunk.

[–]snailsbury 13 points14 points  (2 children)

My BMW Z4 has the same. I think those BMWs with batteries in the boot/trunk have charging points under the bonnet/hood.

[–]teedumpty 303 points304 points  (44 children)

You've probably already thought of this, but does the back seat drop down? There's usually a manual pull inside the trunk in case someone gets stuck inside. You could crawl through the backseat and get to it.

[–]Sr_DingDong 257 points258 points  (14 children)

For some reason that's a regional feature. That was one of the first things I checked. The shape is there in the lining where the triangle would go but it's not there.

[–]ZebraUnion 107 points108 points  (20 children)

To add to this, on modern BMW’s, there’s a physical key hidden in the key fob that can open the driver’s door. In the newer models, there’s a dumb AF cover on the door handle you have to remove to access the lock cylinder.

https://www.fine-auto.com/battery-bmw-dead-can-open.html

Then just climb your happy ass into the back seat and drop the seat back and pop the trunk via the glowing release handle stated above. Good luck!

[–]SprinklesFancy5074 52 points53 points  (11 children)

there’s a dumb AF cover on the door handle you have to remove to access the lock cylinder

Because modern car designers are convinced that keyholes are unsightly abominations and must be hidden at all costs if you're going to call the car design attractive.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't think a wee little keyhole is a problem on any car design. And the practical benefits far outweigh any tiny aesthetic improvement.

(On the same note -- there's nothing wrong with door handles that stick out a bit. I don't need or even want door handles that retract flush to the bodywork when not in use.)

[–]FreshDoctor 24 points25 points  (2 children)

Pretty sure you can charge your BMWs battery from under the hood too. At least in the most models.

[–]iBeenie 1265 points1266 points  (327 children)

Wow that's really awful. All for a friggin battery

[–]FTC_Publik 1003 points1004 points  (174 children)

I inherited my grandfather's '08 Chrysler Sebring years back. It was a free car and the AC worked so 21-year-old me couldn't really complain all that much, but to change the battery you had to take the fuckin driver side wheel off. Like, wtf. 🤦‍♂️

[–]CoffeeForTheAdmiral 127 points128 points  (13 children)

I have a '95 Oldsmobile Cutlass and you have to remove a metal support and the windshield washing fluid reservoir to get to the battery.

[–]nirvana13a 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Had a 96 Grand Prix (same car different badge) can confirm.

[–]Jumbo_Damn_Pride 15 points16 points  (0 children)

lol, my dad spent god knows how long trying to change my mom’s Sebring battery before I came home and googled it for him. Poor guy spent so long in the Phoenix sun he looked like a lobster.

[–]RedSquaree 154 points155 points  (88 children)

I know this is a silly question, but, are you sure? That sounds mad.

[–]FTC_Publik 407 points408 points  (59 children)

Wish I wasn't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8t-RukfLFk&t=138s

Maybe you can like turn the wheel all the way to the right and squeeze in there, but it's just stupidly placed either way...

[–]DisturbedPuppy 128 points129 points  (24 children)

Chrysler is terrible for this. My mom had a Dodge Intrepid. Similar shenanigans.

[–]Dawanna 33 points34 points  (16 children)

I have a 01 Dodge Ram and the ball joints needed to be replaced. Except for whatever reason they riveted them on instead of bolting them. Took 4 hours to do one before I called my mechanic uncle to help.

[–]SafetyMan35 30 points31 points  (10 children)

I owned a 2004 Chevrolet trailblazer. To change the headlight I had to remove 6 bolts, the front quarter panel support brace, the front grille, and 8 plastic rivets just to get to the headlight assembly. Unmount the battery. Then 3 more bolts to remove the assembly and replace a standard halogen bulb

EDIT: it has been a few years since I changed the bulb-so my memory was a bit fuzzy. 8 clips, not bolts and some of the bolt and brace removal was so I could get my old guy fat hands where I needed to go to re-assemble the car.

https://youtu.be/OMYHemqSQyQ

[–]urabewe 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Certain years on Malibu to change a headlight you have to remove the front bumper completely to access the bolts holding the housing in.

[–]oshaCaller 6 points7 points  (2 children)

GM does that with the equinox. The new ball joint come with bolts that are too big for the control arm, so you have to drill the holes out.

On most trucks you have to press the ball joints out, a lot of times this messes up the hole that they go into, if you replace it with a factory ball joint, they'll fall out, the aftermarket ones come with clips that hold them in.

I replace the entire control arm most of the time, some times it only costs a little more than the ball joint, and if the ball joint is worn out, the control arm bushings can't be doing that great.

[–]Double_Minimum 77 points78 points  (4 children)

What. The. Fuck.

At that point, just put it in the trunk

[–]SparkyPantsMcGee 51 points52 points  (3 children)

What the actual fuck?! That is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen in a car.

[–]VAGINA_EMPEROR[🍰] 21 points22 points  (2 children)

And you know what? In my 23 years of driving, I've NEVER had to replace a battery in pleasant circumstances. It's always in winter, in the dark. Can you fucking imagine replacing that fucking thing in the dark, in the snow, at like 10 below?

[–]SixshooteR32 10 points11 points  (14 children)

How would you give this car a boost?

Edit: okay okay okay.. access ports and knuts to attach to under the hood..

[–]blownbythewind 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Leave the keys in the ignition and hope someone drags it off for you?

[–]WeAreSlowScan 9 points10 points  (9 children)

I own a 2010 300 that has the battery hiding in the rear trunk. Not as much of a pain in the ass to replace as the Sebring but still annoying. There are connection points in the front by the engine meant for boosting the car. I would assume the Sebring has something similar.

[–]waitomoworm 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Mother of God..

[–]FixBreakRepeat 64 points65 points  (12 children)

I worked for a little tire and auto place years ago. Batteries were a flat rate job. Nobody wanted to touch a Sebring for that reason.

[–]MasterGreenbolt 42 points43 points  (8 children)

Same with some cars where you have to remove the front bumper to replace a light bulb

[–]Shystermonkey 28 points29 points  (2 children)

My mother's 2008 Buick Lucerne was like that. I had to remove the bumper to change a headlight. I bought and replaced both lamps....cause you know the second headlight will mysteriously fail right after I get the car reassembled.

[–]nebujal 9 points10 points  (0 children)

We have a ‘12 Enclave. There’s jump terminals under the hood, but the battery is located underneath the footwell of the rear passager. The hold down bracket you have to have a ratchet with an extension to reach.

[–]cranktheguy 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Same design as the Dodge Stratus, so I'm both sure and mad.

[–]tatsumakisempukyaku 24 points25 points  (4 children)

Forgot which car it was maybe my civic but I had to replace a parker light and you had to remove bumpers, the whole light assembly and a whole bunch of other stuff just to replace a 2 dollar light globe.

[–]Star_Tropic 470 points471 points  (74 children)

BMW i8 is a process to just open the hood too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxe_b2GRwok

[–]PageFault 166 points167 points  (28 children)

Just.... why? That is insane.

[–]Chenstrap 231 points232 points  (17 children)

Manufacturers don't want people to be able to work on their own vehicles, and instead would prefer you get the car serviced at their dealerships.

[–]pheonixblade9 65 points66 points  (2 children)

I don't even think it's a conspiracy. I just think it isn't a priority for them any more. It's why mechanics love big dumb cars like crown vics. Everything is accessible

[–]asianlikerice 225 points226 points  (14 children)

OMG there is no mechanics to prop up the hood after you open it and you can actually crack the hood unless you have two people hold up the hood from either side. That is the most WTF in design I have ever seen.

Also you need to pop a switch on driver and passenger side to open up the hood.

[–]RevengeSprints 109 points110 points  (3 children)

My favorite was that you have to wait 60 to 90 secs after hitting the button before the fuel tank door opens.

[–]tripledjr 53 points54 points  (6 children)

The people buying these don't open the hood and don't do their own maintenance, besides fanatics spending more than they can likely afford but who would know the ins and outs. They're not designing this thing to be easy for shop techs. Bmw shops probably have special tools that make this all trivial and its likely made intentionally hard to discourage other shops from dealing with them.

[–]Miguel30Locs 118 points119 points  (9 children)

"well honestly ..there's no reason to be under the hood unless it's in the shop"

Yeah go fuck yourself. I'm not taking it to the shop just to check if my fluids are to level or to check any filters.

Ah but I forget this is a bmw and the average driver likely doesn't care ..

[–]ThisUsernameIsTook 28 points29 points  (1 child)

My Volvo doesn't have a dip stick. You check the oil level through the entertainment system interface. Unfortunately, it is generally "good" until it isn't. There's no real way to know you're a half quart low.

[–]Miguel30Locs 15 points16 points  (0 children)

That should be illegal.

[–]OneTime_AtBandCamp 34 points35 points  (0 children)

LOL they designed that latch specifically to be broken.

[–]JekNex 457 points458 points  (44 children)

An hours work? That would have taken me all day as I'd be so scared to break so much shit.

[–]Theresa_May 531 points532 points  (31 children)

An hours work for one of the most well known motor journalists in the world, woe betide us mortals trying to fix the same problem, Jesus.

[–]curiously_clueless 421 points422 points  (79 children)

Of all the 3 top gear hosts, I love James May the most. The man is a national treasure, and he's probably the only one of the 3 I'd legitimately like to have a beer with because he's just a genuine guy. I sat and watched him completely disassemble and repair an antique mower one day and it was just the most soothing thing ever.

[–]CoronaSerious 70 points71 points  (11 children)

He was always my favorite host as well and after viewing his Amazon show about visiting Japan, I only ended up liking him even more.

[–]OyVeyzMeir 29 points30 points  (3 children)

You need to check out Oz and James wine series on Netflix. It's hilarious

[–]Kwetla 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hey Bim!

[–]svmk1987 15 points16 points  (1 child)

He's really got into YouTube very nicely in the past few years.
I got introduced to James may via top gear, but I don't even care that much about grand tour any more. I really look forward to watch anything from James May, and I'm currently going through all his older shows. The Oz and James series in particular is amazing.

[–]SplyBox 180 points181 points  (50 children)

It's because he's not a total bell end like Clarkson, I have no strong opinion about Hammond but he does suck up to Clarkson. James never hesitates to tell Clarkson that he's a bell end

[–]Ridikiscali 223 points224 points  (49 children)

You have to remember that they have personas on the show. They get paid millions to literally piss each other off and it’s honestly great comedy the entire way through.

The difference is that Hammond is a professional driver, Mays a professional car publicist, and Clarkson is a comedian.

[–]SplyBox 166 points167 points  (13 children)

To quote Stewart Lee "Clarkson is either an idiot who actually believes all the badly researched, lying, offensive shit he says or he's a genius who's worked out the most accurate way to annoy me"

[–]Airazz 83 points84 points  (10 children)

I suspect it's the latter. Clarkson has done some excellent documentaries where he's not a dick, I've read all his books too.

A new show is coming out soon, he'll do farming in a serious way, like it's not going to be a comedy show.

[–]emailrob 29 points30 points  (9 children)

Clarkson is a comedian.

Debatable! Technically he's a journalist

[–]damisone 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I think they addressed this in newer models. I've seen photos where the 12V battery terminals were accessible through the front grill.

[–]pyr4m1d 151 points152 points  (18 children)

Porsche and Audi like to hide batteries in some of their models too, but when they put it somewhere really inaccessible, they provide a positive terminal in the engine bay for jump starts or charging. Seems like an oversight on Tesla's part. Both that they never fixed the issue with the charger not charging the 12V battery when the main battery is full, and by not providing a terminal so you don't have to disassemble the car just to jump/charge it. For the price of a Tesla, I would expect both.

[–]CharlesP2009 70 points71 points  (5 children)

Fortunately with the Model 3 and Y at least you can pop the tow eye on the front bumper and access 12V cables that allow you to open the frunk. Then you'll have access to the 12V battery and can charge or replace it. (Owner's manual, see page 19)

Edited for clarity.

[–]Ninja0verkill 51 points52 points  (5 children)

now do a battery on a dodge journey lol. you are fucked if you dont have a jack to lift the car and take the wheel off.

[–]ledow 184 points185 points  (43 children)

No, what it needs is for the little battery to charge from the drive battery when it's low.

[–]yanginatep 145 points146 points  (5 children)

What it needs are mechanical door handles that work with a normal key and an easily accessible mechanical hood latch that will work even if both batteries are completely dead.

[–]Q8D 31 points32 points  (0 children)

What it also needs is:
A) an easily accessible and removable 12V battery.
B) Remote positive and negative 12V battery posts to charge the damn thing.

[–]sirbarton 100 points101 points  (30 children)

I have a 2014 model S. This is true and maddening. I have trickle chargers on my old cars and the Tesla could easily have one.

But it does have an 8 year extended warranty. So I need everything to break again soon and get it replaced before that runs out. Or sell it. I should probably sell it. Driving a Tesla out of warranty is madness.

[–]Jeskid14 24 points25 points  (23 children)

Time is almost up on that warranty you know.

[–]sirbarton 36 points37 points  (22 children)

Yeah I think about it every time I start it up. So far the warranty has paid for 6 door handle replacements, 2 MMC computer replacements (now recalled), leaking sunroof, 3 front control arms failures and a motor replacement.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the car. But I think I’m going to get an electric truck. I have a Rivian deposit but I’m really hoping the new F150 Lightning is good and maybe I’ll get that instead.

If I stick with a car I think I’d replace it with a Mach e.

[–]cowsareverywhere 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Ngl, I am not sure replacing one of the early models of the S with a company(Rivian) making their first ever SUV is a good idea. Unless of course, you clearly enjoy being an early adopter.

[–]Jeskid14 6 points7 points  (5 children)

electric truck

You know, that's when I know I'm living in the future. Trucks can now be electric and powerful enough to pull stuff

[–]colinstalter 26 points27 points  (14 children)

FYI this is fixed on the 3/Y. Just attach a 12v lead to a connector hidden in the bumper and the frunk will open if the battery is dead.

[–]bond0815 80 points81 points  (10 children)

Thats pretty bad design.

So the small battery gets charged, but only if the large battery isnt full? Who thought this was a good idea?

[–]luthorhuss 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I have a bmw i3 and its 12v battery is even more buried than this and to make things even better, you usually have to get the bmw dealer to replace them with a particular type and of course for a nice fee.

[–]grilledcheeseburger 7 points8 points  (2 children)

So basically don't leave it plugged in. Let it partially deplete, then charge it which will charge the 12v battery?

[–]metallophobic_cyborg 713 points714 points  (118 children)

This oversight/flaw is what possibly lead to the deaths of two guys in Florida. Full systems failure, and they could not get out of the car due to the front battery being dead/destroyed. Initial reports say they may have died in the fire due to not being able to get out.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/HWY21FH007-preliminary-report.aspx

If so, I foresee a major and expensive recall.

[–]bsdfree 404 points405 points  (31 children)

Agreed. That a car door won't open without battery power is a major design flaw. Yes, there is an emergency latch, but it is not intuitive to find if you don't already know where it is--especially after you've been in a serious crash and may be concussed.

[–]metallophobic_cyborg 208 points209 points  (22 children)

The NTSB report does not mention it but the two guys in the crash were found in the back seat. Assumption is they were trying to get out via the manual latch in the back but the fire/smoke got to them.

[–]RoAnonim 192 points193 points  (18 children)

The NTSB report does not mention it but the two guys in the crash were found in the back seat

Only one was found in the backseat, the driver. The passenger remained in the passenger seat.

If the NTSB investigation concludes it was due to a shitty door release mechanism...it'll be a really sad day for Tesla.

[–]syncopate15 20 points21 points  (0 children)

The Tesla Model 3 emergency latch is so obvious that most people who aren’t familiar with the car use the emergency latch to open the door instead of the electronic button.

[–]kobachi 59 points60 points  (3 children)

Initial reports say they may have died in the fire due to not being able to get out.

I don't see anything in the document that you linked that even remotely suggests this. Am I missing something?

[–]_Erin_ 169 points170 points  (25 children)

I don't know how electric only door latches are legal - for this very reason.

[–]Wickedfrogcheese 105 points106 points  (21 children)

Always carry a window breaker in your car. Also why the stupid Tesla truck windows will never be approved. Life safety should never solely rely on electronics.

[–]Gullible-Worker 15 points16 points  (1 child)

and if you dont have one remove the head rest and use the metal prongs to break the glass