×

28.1k
28.1k

Biden orders sanctions against Myanmar after military coup (apnews.com)

submitted by cyclinginvancouver43

top 200 commentsshow 500
sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a

[–]RemiusTheMage 4248 points4249 points  (374 children)

People need to read the actual article. First thing it says is that the US is blocking 1 billion in support to myanmar's military general, not blocking the support of the peoples infrastructure, food, etc

[–]gordonfroman 364 points365 points  (63 children)

Genuine question, what’s to stop the military industrial complex in Myanmar from simply re routing the aid intended for the civilian economy once it enters their borders?

[–]pixel8knuckle 283 points284 points  (53 children)

They do, they take it from the citizens, nothing stops them. Then they distribute how they feel best, probably 80/20 keep give .

[–]gordonfroman 132 points133 points  (51 children)

So realistically shouldn’t we cut off all aid since likely whatever we keep giving them on the grounds of civilian assistance will likely be used to harm that very population of civilians and their freedoms....

[–]dja119 90 points91 points  (14 children)

No. It's a better sale when you can point and say the bad actors are stealing aid meant for the citizens and can leverage public sentiment in your favor.

[–]Endonae 26 points27 points  (12 children)

Does public sentiment really need to be leveraged like this in order to do something more significant? Seems like we should just cut to the chase.

[–]CustomDark 72 points73 points  (6 children)

So, there you are, living your little slice of life, which you know isn’t great but you’re not sure it’s THAT bad...and BAM! US Military comes in, knocks over your obviously corrupt regime in just a few days! Freedom!!!!

Tons of the populace isn’t even sure they want this dictator gone, because things were worse once before in living memory. Power vacuum: No one is in charge. The quickest bullies take charge, followed by the mean bullies who subsume them, followed by the meanest bullies who subsume them. Some pockets of government start forming maybe 5-10 years later, and 20 years later the country is still a wreck, because we didn’t have a transition of government, and it was thrust upon us by the outside world with the backing of a fairly large minority of the populace.

But, I think we’re talking about Myanmar, not Iraq.

[–]melancholyswiffer 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Obvious, but perfect switcharoo.

[–]Endonae 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Yes we are talking about Myanmar, though I definitely see the parallels between this and Iraq. I agree these situations tend to be very tricky to deal with, though in this specific case, the democratically elected leader could return to power, so I don't think there would be as much of a power vaccuum as there tends to be.

Also, invasion and nationbuilding aren't my first choice, it just seems like anything less tends to be entirely ineffective.

[–]Zziq 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Sometimes you just have to let nations figure things out themselves. Myanmar just had a semblance of a democracy after decades of militocracy. That gives some hope.

Granted that democracy enabled the military structure to commit genocide, but in terms of what America could have done there the Trump presidency really screwed up years of progress made by the previous administration by straight not acknowledging the Rohingya situation at all. Soft diplomacy i believe can work

load more comments (1 reply)

    [–]Maherjuana 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yes it does, you can’t just continuously and blatantly do things the vast majority are not in support of before it has negative repercussions.

    load more comments (4 replies)

      [–]new_account_wh0_dis 7 points8 points  (0 children)

      Eh, I would think that the main thing is that America doesnt want to push them more towards chinas camp

      load more comments (7 replies)

        [–]Mike_Kermin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Before you say that you should check if it's actually correct.

        How do you know that?

        [–]Lukeno94 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        I would hope that is something the US are planning for; that this is a warning shot of sorts, seeing if they'll stoop that far or not. But I guess we'll see.

        [–]piknick1994 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Nothing can stop them from doing that, but it’s important to start with these types of measures and then react to their reactions accordingly. Measured measures.

        If we cut off all aid, we may negatively impact the lives of an entire population. If we cut military aid, we’ll maybe they will take it from the civilians, but then we can react to that again. It’s a chess game. You move, we move, repeat.

        There are no perfect answers, there are only calculated moves. Too little reaction, were scrutinized by the world, too much action and we are scrutinized but we also turn their civilian population against us. Politics is a messy business with very few definitive clear cut answers, nor are politics clean even in America.

        So it’s a kind of scale tipping game where all we can do is try to level out that scale as close as we can without intentionally attacking the innocent.

        load more comments (6 replies)

          [–]bjb406 1125 points1126 points  (263 children)

          That is probably good? This needs to be handled extremely delicately. Forces in China actively encouraged this coup knowing it would result in disruption of trade with the West, forcing the nation to become reliant on China as part of their belt and road initiative.

          [–]CleverNameTheSecond 744 points745 points  (228 children)

          This cannot be understated. "Defending democracy" is going to be extremely difficult in the modern era because strong armed authoritarian regimes like China and Russia are setting themselves up as the alternative "big daddy" to the west for small nations. Given that they are encouraging authoritarianism to the people in charge who are themselves authoritarian (read: wont get sanctioned for not doing democracy or violating human rights) that makes it very appealing and the wrong sanction could feed into that.

          [–]CaptainCortez 573 points574 points  (141 children)

          This is exactly the reason the US gives out all that foreign aid that people complain about every time a budget gets published. It’s in America and her allies’ best interest to help struggling countries when they are doing the right things, rather than giving China or Russia the opportunity to influence them.

          [–]brickmack 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Also, growing global prosperity means more potential customers. Same reason immigration is, in purely economic terms, always a good thing, and unintuitively you actually want to maximize immigration from the poorest countries (who will have the most growth in income by coming here, and thus the most growth in purchases)

          [–]GamerFromJump 13 points14 points  (1 child)

          Except that they take the money and then turn right around and cozy to China anyway.

          [–]WhichEmailWasIt 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          Because winning and losing are the only options? Not forcing a stalemate?

          [–]Mike_Kermin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          A lot of the criticism of US aid is based on what it's for. I.e Israeli arms.

          load more comments (38 replies)

            [–]simian_ninja 11 points12 points  (8 children)

            Defending democracy is going to be difficult because the U.S. (which pretty much portrays itself as being the democratic defender) is right now stuck in a stalemate where half of the population is angry that they didn't win and have it turn out the way they wanted which has its roots based in racism and rejection of anything not representative of them.

            [–]Hugogs10 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            You spent the last 4 years saying the 2016 election was stolen, now you'll spend 4 years hearing the 2020 election was stolen.

            Blaming it on "racism" is fucking pathetic.

            [–]PooperJackson 7 points8 points  (0 children)

            Any election consists of the other half "angry that they didn't win and turn out the way they wanted". Lol.

            Now I'm gonna assume you meant to say half of the country is actively rejecting/denying the results of the election which ironically we just spent 4 years investigating the integrity of the LAST election. Which was the other half of the country.

            Sooo yeaaaaa.... nuance.

            load more comments (4 replies)

              [–]Hautamaki 0 points1 point  (2 children)

              That's how it was throughout the cold war too. Of course, then immediately after the USSR collapsed, its most dependent client state, North Korea, suffered terrible famines and millions died. Not that the leadership of such countries worries overmuch about these things; they are still fed.

              [–]saxGirl69 5 points6 points  (1 child)

              yeah except the CIA was couping plenty of democratically elected governments in the cold war. authoritarianism vs democracy has nothing to do with it.

              [–]blackgranite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Batista

              Pinochot

              Franco

              Los Pepes

              Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (last Iranian Shah)

              just the tip of the iceberg

              [–]nonetheless156 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Exactly. Removing aid removes our leverage of influence, when the other powers can just fill in where our aid would have been given.

              load more comments (71 replies)

                [–]TheRealCormanoWild 39 points40 points  (0 children)

                Citation fucking needed lol. China didn't want this coup

                [–]RegularOrMenthol 19 points20 points  (2 children)

                Yeah I was under the impression the coup was over internal personal strife between Suu Kyi and the military commander, not anything to do with China.

                [–]simian_ninja 18 points19 points  (0 children)

                Where is your proof for this?

                Everything I've read and heard thus far suggests China does not want the military involved as they are worried this will threaten their belt and road initiative and literally is the complete opposite of what you've said.

                [–]AimingWineSnailz 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                Citation needed

                [–]Ray192 23 points24 points  (0 children)

                You realize that China has been actively funding rebels in Burma for decades to fight against the same generals that launched the coup, right?

                [–]RememberingSessue 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Argh, contrary to what you are claiming, this coup is NOT favorable to China at all because ASSK and her party actually have very good relationship with China, especially after the 2017 Rohingya incidents when the country came under international backlash! Furthermore, there are nationalist elements within the junta who feel that their country was getting too cozy with China and did a lot of balancing acts previously when they were solely in power. If anything, China would want ASSK and her party to be in charge, and maintain stability all throughout Asia for their BR project instead of instigating a coup and putting the junta that isn't all in favor of China.

                Seriously, your anti-China and sinophobia are showing!! And stop speaking up on topics that are out of your depth just because you fall for the propaganda that "bad China" is responsible for troubles everywhere!

                [–]carefree12 9 points10 points  (5 children)

                Are you living in your own an imaginary world. Myanmar govt/Army do whatever China said. What are you trying to pull here? No matter how much billions you put there it is still same. It is about China and all about China. It is about China dominance in the Bay of Bengal.

                China wants two connection to the sea, South China see and Bay of Bengal, with Myanmar bay of Bengal is accessible. You give millions of dollars then someone smile at you it doesn't mean you get what you wanted.

                Edit: This is another scenario for you, if Myanmar govt, betray China next day they will lose at least two states to Arakan army link, This is the militia China is backing indirectly for so long.

                [–]Mercenary45 9 points10 points  (3 children)

                Are you crazy? Do you really think India would stand by a group they consider an enemy to their interests in Northeast India to simply take over two neighboring Burmese states? Nobody here even realizes that the current Burmese regime is Anti-China (otherwise, why would china be funding rebellions against it). It is a shitty regime, but it isn't a puppet state.

                [–]carefree12 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                If the Burmese regime is so anti china, then why China thinks, current coup is just a shuffle in Burmese cabinet? Link. Where India keep complaining about coup. Don't get confuse by word, see what is action taken in fields.

                ​

                Northeast India to simply take over two neighboring Burmese states

                Oh! you did not get my point, i did not say China will take over, it is freedom loving Arakan people represent by Arakan army will take over, What India will do there anyway. India has no rights to interfere another countries internal matter and India officially never do.

                You just made me laugh by saying that. India even couldn't protect its land in Ladakh from China in 2020

                [–]dustupajee 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                India do not have the fortitude. i am not saying the so called 'largest standing' foot soldier type army with outdated weapons won't put up resistance, but won't be able to resist chinese expansion for very long.. and yes- if myanmar allow china to access Bay of Bengal, I do not think India can do much.

                load more comments (1 reply)

                  [–]slickyslickslick 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  China lives rent-free in some people's heads.

                  load more comments (10 replies)

                    [–]mcCRACK-JACK 7 points8 points  (5 children)

                    Cool, now China doesn't even need to match 1 billion to pocket the region's support

                    [–]EzeakioDarmey 16 points17 points  (3 children)

                    Because a corrupt regime never stole money intended for infrastructure before.

                    [–]Clay_Statue 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Bold of you to assume we can read.

                    [–]kitchen_clinton 9 points10 points  (2 children)

                    Why was the US giving 1 B to a foreign military that has been a threat to the people it has policed?

                    [–]CoyoteDown 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    If there is a coup, how does the US gov exactly ascertain the money is going to the people? Isn’t the payments to the entity of Myanmar and not to.. United way or whatever the equivalent would be?

                    [–]Piggywonkle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    Blocking assets (which is what the article states if you read it) is very different from blocking support.

                    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    Considering he won’t stop sanctions against Iran and Venezuela that are hurting civilians more than anything, it’s not surprising that people’s first thought is that’s what’s happening to Myanmar. Keeping food and medicine and vaccines from countries is fucking evil.

                    load more comments (23 replies)

                      [–]49orth 495 points496 points  (49 children)

                      The article:

                      Biden orders sanctions against Myanmar after military coup

                      By AAMER MADHANI and JONATHAN LEMIRE

                      WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden on Wednesday ordered new sanctions against the military regime in Myanmar, taking action after the military this month staged a coup in the Southeast Asian country and arrested de facto leader Aung San Suu Kyi and other senior politicians.

                      Biden said he was issuing an executive order that will prevent Myanmar’s generals from accessing $1 billion in assets in the United States. Biden added that more measures are to come.

                      “The military must relinquish power it seized and demonstrate respect for the will of the people of Burma,” Biden said.

                      [–]drkgodess 244 points245 points  (24 children)

                      Targeted sanctions are a nuanced strategy to pressure political leaders while reducing harm to the common people. Even if this move does not force change, it's important for the U.S. to demonstrate leadership in defense of democracy.

                      It's nice to have an Administration that doesn't congratulate dictators.

                      [–]ElDuderin-O 47 points48 points  (21 children)

                      The unfortunate effect of all of this is people in the west will fail to recognize that Burma's democracy was always an illusion and this is just the military pulling back the curtain.

                      We're witnessing a remake.

                      [–]drkgodess 81 points82 points  (2 children)

                      Although the military retained significant power, the shift towards a democratic system was a step in the right direction. And it was progressing.

                      Hence why the military felt the need to wrest back control.

                      [–]FrostByte62 18 points19 points  (5 children)

                      If what you say were true, the military wouldn't have bothered doing this. They would've had zero incentive to do so. Being able to run a country from the shadows is what dictators have wet dreams about.

                      load more comments (12 replies)

                        load more comments (2 replies)

                          [–]Marinell-_- 350 points351 points  (37 children)

                          He’s imposing sanctions on the military leaders did anyone read the article?

                          [–]hops4beer 167 points168 points  (7 children)

                          lmao 'no.'

                          [–]OutlyingPlasma 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                          Wow, the same exact comment as the 10 above it. Did anyone read the reddit comments?

                          [–]Horehey34 -3 points-2 points  (24 children)

                          Republican's won't lol they will be mad at everything he does.

                          load more comments (2 replies)

                            [–][deleted] 147 points148 points  (10 children)

                            Targeted sanctions. Same strategy that Russia oligarchs hates so much.

                            [–]hops4beer 97 points98 points  (11 children)

                            'thanks, joe' just doesn't have the same ring to it.

                            [–]Artificecoyote 75 points76 points  (4 children)

                            Thanks, Joe Biden has the same number of syllables and thanks, Obama. If you wanted something similar.

                            [–]RogerDeanVenture 57 points58 points  (2 children)

                            Thanks Jobama!

                            [–]ZDTreefur 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                            Thank Jomama too.

                            [–]Lord_Blakeney 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                            I can be down with this usage

                            [–]decopper 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                            That works.

                            [–]Trollogic 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                            Or “Thanks J.B.”

                            [–]OrangeKefka 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                            Thanks oBiden

                            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                            Thanks uncle Biden

                            load more comments (1 reply)

                              [–]decopper 72 points73 points  (7 children)

                              The sanction is Blocking a billion dollars that used to go to the military General. This is great and more sanctions on their military leaders should go into effect. The people there have no recourse against a military coup. They must fight back with what they have, but their only real hope is enough pressure from the west to reinstate democracy.

                              load more comments (4 replies)

                                [–]godlessnihilist 38 points39 points  (5 children)

                                If you go down the list of countries that never had an ambassador under Trump, and it's a long one, most of Southeast Asia is on the list. Pompeo and Trump did there best to make State just a division of the War Department. Kudos to the career diplomatic officers who did a valiant job of keeping the lights on in consulates and embassies around the world with no support from Washington. An ambassador feeding on the ground info to a functioning State Department might have kept this from happening...or not (see Libya).

                                [–]an_internet_denizen 31 points32 points  (7 children)

                                Wow, a measured and appropriate responses from the US government? We must be living in the Twilight Zone.

                                [–]Burntfm -1 points0 points  (4 children)

                                Even more bizarre about the situation in Myanmar. This could have been us here in the US on 1/6.

                                [–]PatrickSebast 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                Military coup is pretty different from hillbillies storming the capital building. It could have been us I guess but it could also hypothetically be us next week with just as much likelihood.

                                [–]RandomAnnan 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                                Every fucking thread.

                                load more comments (1 reply)

                                  load more comments (1 reply)

                                    [–]bumpkinblumpkin 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                    Doesn't the former world opium kingpin just live a normal life with Billions in Myanmar right now? I remember reading that when he was pushed out of the market by the Taliban in the 90s, he just retired and the government let him live the playboy life while his kids were CEOs and Politicians lol

                                    Know I'm going off on somewhat of a tangent, but Myanmar didn't exactly lack corruption prior to this coup.

                                    [–]RobertMcL 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                    The army that has done the coup are the ones that allowed the drug trade to happen lol 🤷‍♂️

                                    [–]EgoDefeator 51 points52 points  (64 children)

                                    Maybe also sanction China for crimes against humanity but that will never happen

                                    [–]drkgodess 77 points78 points  (14 children)

                                    Maybe that needs to be done delicately and with careful forethought considering our reliance on Chinese manufacturing.

                                    [–]KingMelray 7 points8 points  (7 children)

                                    If we are smart about it other places would likely be happy to have the business. One of the reasons Trump's trade was was so foolish was he didn't leverage our allies.

                                    [–]brickmack 7 points8 points  (5 children)

                                    Yeah. Fortunately companies are already diversifying slowly, but theres a lot we could do to hasten it without actually negatively impacting anyone except China.

                                    Eg, make imports tax-free for any company that can demonstrate they have no production taking place in China, and fund infrastructure development in other countries to make them more suitable

                                    load more comments (6 replies)

                                      [–]throwaway92715 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                      If by "sanction" you mean "have James Bond take care of their leaders," yeah... I'm afraid that only happens in Hollywood.

                                      But we'll get sanctions. And China probably already budgeted for them.

                                      [–]theonlymexicanman 5 points6 points  (6 children)

                                      Sure but when the prices for basically everything starts jacking up I don’t want to hear you complaining.

                                      Edit: I’m all for it, but last time I checked a good portion of the US bitched about letting their own people die so the economy wouldn’t fall. If people don’t even care about saving their own citizens with a consequence of having a hit to the economy what makes anyone think that people would let the economy take a hit for a group of people that live in a place they can’t spot on a map. It isn’t looking good

                                      [–]slickyslickslick 6 points7 points  (11 children)

                                      if no one sanctioned the US for starting like five unjust wars in the last 50 years over made-up reasons that killed millions then no one will sanction China for anything they did.

                                      [–]LITERALCRIMERAVE 3 points4 points  (10 children)

                                      The 2003 invasion of Iraq is the only one that really matches that description.

                                      load more comments (28 replies)

                                        [–]TheSouthernCassowary 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                        “Biden said the new sanctions will allow his administration to freeze U.S. assets that benefit Myanmar’s military leaders while maintaining support for health care programs, civil society groups and other areas that benefit the country’s people. He said the administration planned to identify specific targets of the sanctions later this week.”

                                        [–]ScarletWitchBrother 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        Now if he would only throw the book at our homegrown attempted coup asshole

                                        [–]dingo_bat 6 points7 points  (3 children)

                                        America is back!! Send in the predator drones!

                                        [–]Bairat 6 points7 points  (10 children)

                                        meanwhile literally funding the military in egypt after years of coup, extreme poverty and dehumanizing situation, but of course they will

                                        [–]an_internet_denizen 33 points34 points  (7 children)

                                        That’s part of the agreement with Israel...

                                        Carter brokered a peace deal that has lasted since 1979. By paying billions to these two belligerent nations.

                                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty

                                        Guess we could stop funding them and let them fight again, eh?

                                        [–]takatu_topi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                        Friendly reminder the Egyptian military killed literally hundreds of protesters after the 2013 coup and the US government still gives them a billion dollars of our tax money anyway.

                                        Tiananmen? Never forget!

                                        Hundreds of protesters killed in Egypt? MEMORY HOLE THAT SHIT

                                        [–]000882622 9 points10 points  (20 children)

                                        It's great to have a real president again.

                                        [–]jWalkerFTW -1 points0 points  (7 children)

                                        He kept calling Myanmar “Burma”. So did McConnell. That’s the old name of the country, in reference to the Burmese people: who were largely responsible for both the rise of Myanmar’s recent democracy and for the nationalistic fervor that led to the genocide of Muslim cultural/ethnic groups among others under this democracy.

                                        Not really a good look to call Myanmar “Burma”, especially since we kindof overlooked the whole genocide thing in order to back up the previous government.

                                        [–]ScyllaGeek 13 points14 points  (0 children)

                                        The US officially recognizes it as Burma, it's not just them being old. Why the state department doesn't change it Im not sure.

                                        [–]Megadevil27 7 points8 points  (3 children)

                                        It was the same Military Junta in charge now who changed the name of the country. I don't think it was ever that popular of a decision amongst the people. Plenty of them still refer to the country as Burma and themselves as Burmese.

                                        [–]plartoo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                        Actually I like the name Myanmar because although the majority of the population is Burmese, there are 100+ ethnic groups living in my country. So I prefer Myanmar as a name. Also, someone above this comment is right that the US never officially recognized the name change to Myanmar and that’s why Biden is referring to my country as Burma. When I filled out the US immigration/visa related documents, I could only choose “Burma”.

                                        load more comments (2 replies)

                                          [–]CynicalRealist1 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                          Calling it Burma is a message to the junta

                                          [–]IrishSpredHed89 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                                          But not against china after the human rights atrocities taking place?

                                          [–]trmisha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                                          aw shit here we go again...

                                          [–]1ntroductionSalty -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

                                          But not against china after the human rights atrocities taking place?

                                          [–]ttu5811 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                                          Cool. What’s he doing about the genocide in China?

                                          [–]Soft-Strike878 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                          https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-launch-a-pentagon-review-of-china-strategy-11612979574

                                          [–]Enk1ndle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                          "If it's not related to China it's a waste of time, until it is related to China then if it's not about something else it's a waste of time"

                                          [–]Locked_door 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                          What china doing about it? Or Russia? Or Japan? Or India? Or Canada?

                                          load more comments (2 replies)

                                            [–]ghetto_engine 0 points1 point  (15 children)

                                            US is back to policing the world.

                                            [–]DeanWarren_ 2 points3 points  (4 children)

                                            Don't act like we ever stopped.

                                            [–]Enk1ndle 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                                            For better or worse Trump did very little with foreign countries during his term

                                            load more comments (4 replies)

                                              load more comments (209 replies)