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r/writing icon

Discussions about the writing craft.


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kjmichaels
commented

I wouldn’t say it necessarily needs to be a large compendium but a passing familiarity is important at the very least. The sci fi writer Iain Banks made a good argument as to why research is important to write in a genre:

“. . . and then the twist at the end! I almost don’t want to tell you because it’ll spoil it for you first time you read it, but I’ve got to tell you, it’s so brilliant! […] the murderer is . . . the butler!”

Now, even the most gifted literary author […] if they were foolish enough to suggest something on these lines to their agent or editor they’d immediately be informed that It’s Been Done . . . in fact, It’s Been Done to the Point of Being a Joke

[…] It’s just plain foolish, as well as comically arrogant, to ignore all this, to fail to do the most basic research


r/literature icon

Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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r/literature

Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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The Literary Mediocrity

[removed]

r/Fantasy icon
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r/Fantasy is the internet's largest discussion forum for the greater Speculative Fiction genre. Fans of fantasy, science fiction, horror, alt history, and more can all find a home with us. We welcome respectful dialogue related to speculative fiction in literature, games, film, and the wider world. We ask all users help us create a welcoming environment by reporting posts/comments that do not follow the subreddit rules.


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I find it hard to enjoy a lot of books because of my extremely critical inner voice

If OP truly will put down a book if even a single word seems out of place, the advice to simply read better writers won’t solve anything. There is no author who is so great that I would honestly say they don’t have a single iffy word choice in their books somewhere. No one is flawless, even Shakespeare had dud lines.


The 75 Best Sci-Fi Books of All Time as Chosen by Esquire Magazine
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Todd in the Shadow's dedicated subreddit! Watch Todd's One Hit Wonderland, where he takes a look at the full careers of bands and artists known for only one song, or watch Todd's Pop Song Reviews, where he takes one current smash hit song and take it apart, break it down line by line, see what parts work and what doesn't, and analyze where it fits within both current trends and the artists' body of work.


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This Song Had SIX Writers?! No

kjmichaels
commented

This really does feel like a song for no one. The lyrics seem like they might implicitly address men as a group (it’s a woman’s world and you’re lucky to be living in it) but it feels like it was really meant for women. But then feminists won’t like it because it’s too insincere and anti-feminists won’t like it because its surface level, half-assed feminism is still a bridge too far for them.

So who’s left as an audience? Enbies who needed a reminder of how stupid gender can be to point and laugh at?


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Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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r/literature

Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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Let’s talk about NYT’s Best Books of the Century List

Yeah, a separate page reveals the reason:

The only rules: Any book chosen had to be published in the United States, in English, on or after Jan. 1, 2000

So they counted it because its English translation was published in 2007 which I think many people will take issue with. I know I do.


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r/literature

Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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Let’s talk about NYT’s Best Books of the Century List

Yeah, I found it overrated too which was a real shame since I liked Lee's first book so much. I remember the exact scene where I realized the book was not going to be as good as I'd been told. One of the characters explained that Pachinko looks like a game of chance but is carefully rigged to be impossible to win. I thought "that's a neat little metaphor for their lives" only for the character to add "it's almost like a metaphor our lives."

That moment of making the subtext as blunt as possible dashed any hope the book would live up to its hype. I can't in good conscience call a book with so little faith in its readers great even with the book's many strong elements. The Great Gatsby doesn't have a scene where Nick asks "hey, does that green light represent the unattainable nature of the American Dream?"


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r/literature

Welcome to /r/literature, a community for deeper discussions of plays, poetry, short stories, and novels. Discussions of literary criticism, literary history, literary theory, and critical theory are also welcome. We are not /r/books: please do not use this sub to seek book recommendations or homework help.


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Let’s talk about NYT’s Best Books of the Century List

kjmichaels
commented

List for the paywalled:

100. Tree of Smoke - Denis Johnson

99. How to Be Both - Ali Smith

98. Bel Canto - Ann Patchett

97. Men We Reaped - Jesmyn Ward

96. Wayward Lives, Beautiful Experiments - Saidiya Hartman

95. Bring Up the Bodies - Hilary Mantel

94. On Beauty - Zadie Smith

93. Station Eleven - Emily St. John Mandel

92. The Days of Abandonment - Elena Ferrante

91. The Human Stain - Philip Roth

90. The Sympathizer - Viet Thanh Nguyen

89. The Return - Hisham Matar

88. The Collected Stories of Lydia Davis - Lydia Davis

87. Detransition, Baby - Torrey Peters

86. Frederick Douglass - David W. Blight

85. Pastoralia - George Saunders

84. The Emperor of All Maladies - Siddhartha Mukherjee

83. When We Cease to Understand the World - Benjamín Labatut

82. Hurricane Season - Fernanda Melchor

81. Pulphead - John Jeremiah Sullivan

80. The Story of the Lost Child - Elena Ferrante

79. A Manual for Cleaning Women - Lucia Berlin

78. Septology - Jon Fosse

77. An American Marriage - Tayari Jones

76. Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow - Gabrielle Zevin

75. Exit West - Mohsin Hamid

74. Olive Kitteridge - Elizabeth Strout

73. The Passage of Power - Robert Caro

72. Secondhand Time - Svetlana Alexievich

71. The Copenhagen Trilogy - Tove Ditlevsen

70. All Aunt Hagar’s Children - Edward P. Jones

69. The New Jim Crow - Michelle Alexander

68. The Friend - Sigrid Nunez

67. Far From the Tree - Andrew Solomon

66. We the Animals - Justin Torres

65. The Plot Against America - Philip Roth

64. The Great Believers - Rebecca Makkai

63. Veronica - Mary Gaitskill

62. 10:04 - Ben Lerner

61. Demon Copperhead - Barbara Kingsolver

60. Heavy - Kiese Laymon

59. Middlesex - Jeffrey Eugenides

58. Stay True - Hua Hsu

57. Nickel and Dimed - Barbara Ehrenreich

56. The Flamethrowers - Rachel Kushner

55. The Looming Tower - Lawrence Wright

54. Tenth of December - George Saunders

53. Runaway - Alice Munro

52. Train Dreams - Denis Johnson

51. Life After Life - Kate Atkinson

50. Trust - Hernan Diaz

49. The Vegetarian - Han Kang

48. Persepolis - Marjane Satrapi

47. A Mercy - Toni Morrison

46. The Goldfinch - Donna Tartt

45. The Argonauts - Maggie Nelson

44. The Fifth Season - N.K. Jemisin

43. Postwar - Tony Judt

42. A Brief History of Seven Killings - Marlon James

41. Small Things Like These - Claire Keegan

40. H Is for Hawk - Helen Macdonald

39. A Visit From the Goon Squad - Jennifer Egan

38. The Savage Detectives - Roberto Bolaño

37. The Years - Annie Ernaux

36. Between the World and Me - Ta-Nehisi Coates

35. Fun Home - Alison Bechdel

34. Citizen - Claudia Rankine

33. Salvage the Bones - Jesmyn Ward

32. The Line of Beauty - Alan Hollinghurst

31. White Teeth - Zadie Smith

30. Sing, Unburied, Sing - Jesmyn Ward

29. The Last Samurai - Helen DeWitt

28. Cloud Atlas - David Mitchell

27. Americanah - Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

26. Atonement - Ian McEwan

25. Random Family - Adrian Nicole LeBlanc

24. The Overstory - Richard Powers

23. Hateship, Friendship, Courtship, Loveship, Marriage - Alice Munro

22. Behind the Beautiful Forevers - Katherine Boo

21. Evicted - Matthew Desmond

20. Erasure - Percival Everett

19. Say Nothing - Patrick Radden Keefe

18. Lincoln in the Bardo - George Saunders

17. The Sellout - Paul Beatty

16. The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay - Michael Chabon

15. Pachinko - Min Jin Lee

14. Outline - Rachel Cusk

13. The Road - Cormac McCarthy

12. The Year of Magical Thinking - Joan Didion

11. The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao - Junot Díaz

10. Gilead - Marilynne Robinson

9. Never Let Me Go - Kazuo Ishiguro

8. Austerlitz - W.G. Sebald

7. The Underground Railroad - Colson Whitehead

6. 2666 - Roberto Bolaño

5. The Corrections - Jonathan Franzen

4. The Known World - Edward P. Jones

3. Wolf Hall - Hilary Mantel

2. The Warmth of Other Suns - Isabel Wilkerson

  1. My Brilliant Friend - Elena Ferrante


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Why hasn’t a new pop star become truly ubiquitous?

kjmichaels
commented

Lots of answers correctly detailing why stars struggle to get as famous now but I think another key is that Taylor Swift levels of popularity are astonishingly rare. Swift is the 14th bestselling artist of all time by album sales. She’s spitting distance from cracking the Top 10 despite half her catalogue coming out in the age of streaming and most of the artists above her on that list didn’t have to contend with streaming during their heydays. If Swift had been born a decade earlier, it’s extremely likely she’d already be a Top 10 or even Top 5 bestselling artist of all time and that kind of success is so rare that calling it one in a million would be underselling it


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Mark Hamill speaks out against Project 2025, but the comments are in complete denial

kjmichaels
commented

I can’t get over “teach Christian beliefs in schools” right next to “end free school lunches.” Great work as always, evangelicals. Jesus: famously not a fan of feeding the needy.


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Is the tortured poets department turning into another be here now?

kjmichaels
commented

No, TTPD isn’t a Trainwreckord because Taylor’s career is effectively unkillable. If the awfulness of Reputation didn’t end her, the mediocrity of TTPD certainly won’t. She’ll always have an army of fans catapaulting her every album to success (if not always Eras Tour levels of success). People who aren’t hardcore fans wish it was a Trainwreckord because they’re understandably sick of her and she’s very easy to dunk on but that core fan base is unshakeable.



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Do people take the "unreliable narrator" trope too far?

kjmichaels
commented

I don’t think I’ve ever encountered an unreliable narrator situation where there was zero evidence the unreliable narrator was unreliable. It’s pretty easy to establish unreliability, so it’s pretty rare to fuck that aspect up. Like literally all it takes is having another character say “hey, that person lied!”

I feel the type of failure I see more often is unreliable narrators where it’s not super clear what the unreliable aspect of their narration actually adds to the story. You can see this in basically every argument about Kvothe as people who don’t like the character acknowledge him as unreliable but don’t see a point to him being unreliable. Even then though, that’s more of a subjective judgment.




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kjmichaels
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Answer: Here’s the shortest version:

  • 2010 - Labour gets the shaft due to perception of mishandling the Great Recession. Tories take power

  • 2015 - Tories don’t like their election odds. Promise to hold a referendum on Brexit if they win in order to shore up support. This works, Tories get a solid majority

  • 2017 - Tories call an election early in hope of gaining a larger majority to help with Brexit negotiations. This backfires and Tories lose their majority but retain power by forming a minority government

  • 2019 - the minority government can’t make Brexit happen. PM Boris Johnson calls an early election hoping to gain a majority to make Brexit happen. This works, Tories get a huge majority, and Brexit happens in 2020

  • 2024 - Brexit turns out to suck and people feel betrayed it didn’t work out as well as was promised. PM Johnson also bungles COVID and his administration is plagued with corruption scandals. This taints the entire Tory party. Johnson resigns and both successor PMs turn out to be rather worthless and don’t change public perception of Tory incompetence. Voters line up to kick out the Tories

ETA: I originally called the 2017 government a coalition government. It’s now been changed to the correct term


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What are the most obscure things gods have done in fiction

kjmichaels
commented

What do you mean by obscure? Do you mean least known about? Most inexplicable? Has the vaguest reasoning? Best kept secret? Something that’s unimportant?


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Lets see what normal real-world occurrence bigots are whining about and calling woke today…

kjmichaels
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Imagine if white people had black ancestors! That would be….the actual history of how races evolved.


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What's An Author You Thought Was Going To Be Big But Sadly Didn't?

kjmichaels
replied to db_325

Yeah, like I said, his books did not get the attention they needed to sell well. I guess I should have been clearer that meant both editing and marketing.


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What's An Author You Thought Was Going To Be Big But Sadly Didn't?

kjmichaels
commented

I remember reading Peter Orullian’s great short stories as he was coming up and thinking that he was going to go places. Unfortunately I think his publisher took their attention off him during some acquisition shuffles and so his first book series didn’t get the attention it needed to sell well. He’s slowly building up his novel writing career again and even has a co-authored book with Brandon Sanderson coming in the near future so there is always hope things finally work out for him.


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In your opinion, which fantasy author is guilty of having written garystu/marysue characters, and which author rarely, if ever, guilty of having marysues/garystu characters?

That's fair and like I said, I do get that people don't like it and agree with many of the general complaints. I just feel like the Mary Sue label is inaccurate and doesn't hold up to scrutiny but still gets tossed around a bunch.


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In your opinion, which fantasy author is guilty of having written garystu/marysue characters, and which author rarely, if ever, guilty of having marysues/garystu characters?

She immediately was a better pilot than Han - which was confusing, since there was no indication she'd ever been in space or driven a space golf cart. She was able to do the Force Mind thingy about five seconds after she even heard it existed.

I'd agree on the Force thing but I think the piloting thing is a good example of what I mean when I say people ignore the actual plot when they make these points. Where was Rey a better pilot than Han? She acknowledged him as better and handed over flying duties to him the second he came onboard. And what do you mean no indication she'd ever flown a spaceship? She flat out tells Finn she can fly spaceships as they're looking for a spaceship to fly. We can bicker over whether or not that's good writing (I'll say right now that's clunky exposition at best) but clearly a character saying "Hey, I can do this specific thing" is an indication they can do that thing.

Like Wonder Woman. Nobody is like "Oh man, she's throwing tanks REALLY REALISTIC, Warner Brothers!"

I regret to inform you there were in fact people making these exact arguments about Wonder Woman. It's the internet, there's always somehow going to be someone making the stupidest argument imaginable.


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In your opinion, which fantasy author is guilty of having written garystu/marysue characters, and which author rarely, if ever, guilty of having marysues/garystu characters?

kjmichaels
commented

The trouble with terms like Mary Sue is that while they could mean something concrete, in practice they're often just used to signal hate for a character. A lot of characters who aren't Mary Sues get called such because of audience dislike for that character and then they bend over backwards to try to prove the point even ignoring the actual plot to do so at times. And a lot of characters who could plausibly be considered Mary Sues don't get called such because audiences find them interesting or compelling.

So you get weird disconnects where Rey from the Star Wars sequels is considered a Mary Sue just for getting off a lucky blow against an opponent who had already been shot in the stomach with one of the strongest blasters in the entire franchise while Paul Atreides from Dune - a literal messiah with actual godlike powers and is canonically better at being a Fremen than the native-born Fremen - is not considered a Mary Sue.

And on the one hand, I get the differences in opinion even if I don't agree with the terminology. I too prefer Paul to Rey. I think he's significantly better written. But if we're going purely by the numbers, it's pretty obvious which character has more in common with a Mary Sue and it's not the one that gets called a Mary Sue.


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The term "Magic System" is important, actually

kjmichaels
replied to Udy_Kumra

I don’t think you realize how condescending your replies are coming across here. You said some systems are invisible to the reader and I pointed out that calling such a system a system would be confusing and unhelpful to a lot of people. You replied by defining the word system which doesn’t engage with the point I actually made and is subtly insulting by implying I don’t understand basic definitions. From looking at some of your other replies, you’re doing this to a lot of people. You keep acting as if people don’t understand the basics when they do and are just disagreeing with you but you react to their disagreement by not engaging their points and restating the basics again. This is a very unproductive way to have a discussion.

As for your example, this is exactly the sort of thing I would point to as an example of my point that calling something a magic system when it’s not systematized on the reader end can be confusing. The elements you point to as being systematized are religious rites and imagery that mostly do not produce magic. These would be seen as socio cultural elements to plenty of readers and not magic elements. The magic that is produced is entirely unsystematic and there are entire discussions in the books about how mysterious these miracles are and how even priests don’t know when, if, or how they’ll actually work. If you use “magic system” to mean “this religion has funeral rites and a coordinated color scheme,” that’s a huge communication gap that will almost certainly confuse an average reader when the book itself explicitly calls its actual magic unknowable.


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