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[–]SsurebreC 79 points80 points  (47 children)

I was there during this whole thing so here's some info...

First of all, this only relates to Bitcoin Cash in Coinbase, a popular exchange. There wasn't any indication that this was going to launch. I received an email about the launch 4 minutes after it initially launched.

Here's how the launch went:

  • Bitcoin Cash became available as the 4th Cryptocurrency available to be traded (i.e. a big deal)
  • All the other three coins: bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin dropped significantly which killed their momentum
  • Bitcoin Cash just held there with everyone placing buy orders as the other three coins kept on dropping by significant amounts (10%)
  • Bitcoin Cash finally opened trading and shot up to $9,500 which almost tripled its value
  • To put this into perspective: $100 billion of value - out of $600 billion total market - was created in a few minutes if this was allowed to be settled.
  • Coinbase immediately shut down Bitcoin cash trading and the other three cryptocurrencies recovered (but not to the same level as pre-Bitcoin Cash)
  • Bitcoin Cash remains frozen and the latest announcement is that trading will slowly resume at noon EST today. Side note: can't wait for that shit show

Considering the horrible launch - no news or previous announcements, poor launch due to liquidity problems, spiked price with no relation to any other exchange (which still had Bitcoin Cash at ~$3500 levels while showing $9500 on Coinbase), etc has resulted in a whole slew of problems.

Although I know that some people were indeed able to sell Bitcoin Cash for a massive gain within minutes, most people have been unable to sell their Bitcoin Cash for over 12 hours. Last I checked, there was a massive sell block - I think it was sitting at $15 million dollars with zero support until about $3,100 price, resulting in a massive crash down whenever this reopens.

My predictions:

  • the reopen will be available for a fraction of a second before the entire Exchange goes down again.
  • Bitcoin Cash on Coinbase will collapse down to reasonable levels but considering the volume, it'll overshoot.
  • This will force Coinbase to shut it down again.
  • Lawsuits will be filed.

To fix the problem, what Coinbase should have done was:

  • ignore all this and fix their underlying problems such as: lack of tech support (90-120-minute hold times, account locks for days, even wires take 3 days+ vs. 2-hours like before)
  • announce way ahead of time that they'll start trading Bitcoin Cash
  • get enough system resources to handle the additional volume during the rollout

[–]DeadNazisEqualsGood 2 points3 points  (1 child)

All the other three coins: bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin dropped significantly which killed their momentum

Litecoin had its own set of problems today, unrelated to other currencies.

[–]SsurebreC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see that as a problem but LTC drop was unrelated to this. I'm sure LTC dropped also because of this but the announcement came later.

[–]TwoTenths 3 points4 points  (3 children)

They did announce they would add Bitcoin cash by January 1st way back in late July though.

Still should've announced it going live though.

[–]Konwizzle 13 points14 points  (1 child)

No, they said they would enable withdrawals and that they would make a decision about trading later. Huge difference.

They enabled trading without ever announcing that it was coming, which is why this whole disaster unfolded the way it did.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

yeah I just happened to look at my account as it went down. I didn't sell though.

[–]SsurebreC 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I wish I sold and bought back - I hate holding - but that's a moot point now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It was too fast for me. I almost sold, but just enjoyed watching this time. There will likely be a big crash Jan 1, but it might not be until late January/early February I bet. it will recover again.

[–]SsurebreC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had a sell order at $346 something but I cancelled it. I could have bought more < $300 -.-

I think it'll still go higher but this is screwing up my end-of-year plans.

[–]quzox_ 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Is CoinBase a de-centralised exchange? I thought the whole point of BTC was to have a de-centralised currency?

[–]SsurebreC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Coinbase is an exchange, i.e. a place to trade and one of many. Decentralization talks about issuance of new coins and nothing can issue additional coins. There's no Bitcoin FED that can issue more coins. Nobody owns Bitcoin that can shut it down - this as opposed to someone shutting down a currency because the government said screw it.

[–][deleted] 325 points326 points  (21 children)

This is good for bitcoin.

[–]RemingtonSnatch 44 points45 points  (0 children)

honestly though this is good for crypto. Fuck this kind of fraud. And it is good for Bitcoin proper. Bitcoin Cash is a fork project.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's good to see this comment in every thread. It reminds me of home.

[–]DeucesCracked 1 point2 points  (6 children)

You may mock but after that was announced bitcoin price stabilized. We need policing... community policing.

[–]hk1111 3 points4 points  (5 children)

But free market currency.

[–]DeucesCracked 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Yes, transparency and a free market allow for community policing.

[–]Cuddlyaxe 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I'm sorry to be a downer but in a completely decentralized world, the community can really only police others in the community.

[–]DeucesCracked 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Which is fine with me.

[–]hk1111 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The issue is that any fraud and abuse is legal. In such decentralizatiom no one has agency to stop fraud.

[–]DeucesCracked 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Untrue. It just requires due diligence on the part of everyone. Fraud and abuse isn't legal despite what you may think. Misrepresenting something for material or financial gain at the cost of another is illegal irrelevant of whether or not it's under the auspices of an SEC regulated business.

And despite what everyone seems to think these exchanges, ESPECIALLY Coinbase, are indeed regulated. You think just anyone gets access to direct bank withdrawal and deposit?

[–]sedaak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bad publicity can shake investors heavily

[–]WhiteTrashInTrouble 149 points150 points  (92 children)

I logged into my coinbase account this morning and saw that I all of a suddenly had a 72 dollar balance in Bitcoin Cash sitting there, because the value of Bitcoin Cash had shot up just before they added it. I was tempted to cash it out to USD immediately but I'm gonna sit on it for now.

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (13 children)

I've put in about $260 between Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin and I'm sitting on about $800 this morning

[–]carl_global 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Cash out $260 to cover your cost basis and the rest is fun money.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but it's all just fun money because if I lose it, shit happens. This is more of a money experiment for me. I'm learning about investing and figuring out what I want to do with profits other than just knee jerk selling off. Due to my Bitcoin experience I've gotten a little knowledge and I'm just about to start investing elsewhere and go from there. But for now, my cash here is play money

[–]RedBlimp 31 points32 points  (68 children)

I cashed out my litecoin last night. I think it's all going to come tumbling down here soon.

[–]Cainga 34 points35 points  (63 children)

I remember people saying the same thing in 2013 when I think it broke $1000 for the first time and it did for a little bit. It does feel like a bubble but based on the definition of bubble you can’t know until the crash happens.

[–]BASEDME7O 13 points14 points  (3 children)

It definitely feels worse. I’ve heard all kinds of goobers talking about and giving tips on bitcoin. It reminds me of the big investor who took all his money out right before the Great Depression because his shoe shine kid was giving him stock tips

[–]RedBlimp 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Valid point. However it went from around 6,000 to nearly 20,000 in like two months. That's way way way steeper of a climb than anything in the past.

Edit: Changed 900 to 6,000.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (23 children)

I sold all of mine in 2015 because it was just crashing and crashing. People said it was the end of bitcoin.

Really hate myself for that shit.

[–]Grunnikins 16 points17 points  (3 children)

There was no way to know that Bitcoin was going to undergo a speculation bubble like this. The purpose of Bitcoin back then (and still should be now) was easy-to-use currency, not some stock option or whatever where your money is supposed to grow.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Yup. The whole reason I bought bitcoin back then was to go on the silkroad to get a fake ID.

Then I sold it because I had $0 to my name and wanted beer.

[–]yabn5 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Just as an FYI, bitcoin's average transaction fee is sitting at $32: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html

So whatever the use for bitcoin is today, it's certainly not great for buying stuff.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Back then it wasn't that high. I think it I paid a few cents extra per transaction.

[–]margananagram 11 points12 points  (7 children)

Don't.

I'm sure you have walked past a blackjack deck that would have won 10 hands in a row. Letting that ride would pay ~1000:1. The only difference is you watched this play out.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

True. And I bought Spiderman issues 1 thru 20 when I was a kid back in the '60s. Kept them in a pile under my bed, read them repeatedly until they fell apart and tossed them in the trash when I was a teen.

No point in crying over lost financial gains you never could have anticipated.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I realize that. And to be fair, I didn't have all that much. Just .5 Bitcoin.

Nothing life-changing.

[–]Aardvark_Man 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I looked into it when it was at $600, and it crashed to $300 while I was considering getting in.
The crash made me think I could just lose everything, so didn't go for it.

However, I don't regret it. It'd be nice to have gotten the cash, but it's all speculation. It was just as likely to become worthless. I didn't lose money by not getting in, I just didn't gain any.
These things happen.

[–]sedaak 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It is not speculation to anyone in IT who read the whitepapers and understand the blockchain. It is an eventuality.

[–]Aardvark_Man 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I feel kind of dumb, but don't follow your post, sorry.
What's an eventuality?
A crash, or the current price hike?

[–]sedaak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The benefits to humanity are so profound that some cryptocurrency will become part of our way of life.

A technical understanding of bitcoin leads to a lot more than speculation. The only thing to speculate is whether it has reached mainstream or not. That is peanuts compared to the eventual effect.

[–]royalstaircase 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You were gambling, don't stress about it. Things go up and down.

[–]pillage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

sold out at $7..... god damn do I wish the TARDIS was a real thing to go back and slap some fuckin sense into my head. 3000 coins at $16,600 = 49,800,000

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's even worse than me. Yes, tough to take for sure but at least at $7, few could forsee the crazy high numbers now.

[–]hi_im_eros 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should have talked to a psychic first

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but there are indicators. Crazy price swings being one of them, which taken alone doesn’t mean much. But wild price swings, fraud, lack of oversight, and complex machinations that amount to “lol this is money now” aren’t pointing to a bubble, they’re pointing to a massive crash.

[–]Ubango_v2 20 points21 points  (15 children)

If anything looks like a J curve, you can probably assume it will eventually crash. Could be years, but it will happen

[–]Acrolith 14 points15 points  (13 children)

I really hope this doesn't apply to world population... Hoping for a nice mellow transition to an S curve there.

For Bitcoin, yeah, absolutely. But there's no way to tell when.

[–]Ubango_v2 5 points6 points  (11 children)

Unfortunately does apply to world pop. In terms of possibility that we don't have the food to support 10-12 billion people by the estimates that it would pop. I mean we do have enough but it's going to farm animals instead

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Nah, this doesn't apply to world population really. It's not like we hit 12 billion and suddenly realize that there wasn't enough food so everyone starves to death when we were just fine at 11.9 billion.

The population of the Earth is going to decline slowly over the course of the next few centuries. Partially related to global warming and resource scarcity, but mostly related to natural processes of decreased fertility rates which we've already seen occurring in western nations. Japan is a dramatic example, but the US and basically all of Europe have fertility rates below replacement. The only reason the US is increasing in population at all is immigration.

[–]Misterisadingus 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Ya, it'll likely oscillate around 15 billion and climb slowly as technology advances. Anything short of a plague or volcanic winter probably wouldn't do much. What you fail to recognize is the massive population growth in Africa and SE Asia but even India is slowing down a bit. Now oscillations are not going to be comfortable but we can't compare something like a bitcoin J curve to population. It's apples and ducks people.

[–]TheChance 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Actual experts have been telling the public that our population should plateau between 12 and 15 billion. Massive population growth in Africa and SE Asia will slow down, but more importantly, a decline in scarcity means the same easing of economic pressures which have led to declining birth rates in the developed world will begin to affect the underdeveloped world, as it... develops.

[–]ShadowSwipe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's not like Africa is going to a hit a point and suddenly get all our food. Africa already has major food shortages and famines to deal with.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think you are talking about birth rate, not fertility rate. The birth rate is way down in first world westernized countries, but it may be due mostly to social and cultural reasons. Fertility rates are down somewhat but that's not the primary reason for the lower birthrate in places like Japan and Western Europe.

Women who have the freedom to work and also to control when they have kids often choose to wait. But in patriarchal or traditional societies where women have little real freedom the birth rate is still very high. In many African nations women have 6 children on average and the population is growing to an unsustainable degree.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I'm talking about the fertility rate, which is about 1.9 in the US currently. The birth rate looks at absolute numbers, the fertility rate is a projected estimation. So, we expect that on average a US born woman will have 1.9 live births, so Americans are procreating at below replacement levels.

You're not wrong about places like Asia and Africa, but the point is that as those areas develope their fertility rate will also fall. Many of the factors are socioeconomic, not cultural. We see this with the industrialization of the US.

So basically, people get more money and they stop having kids. Eventually we all become Japan and humans go extinct. Well, probably not, but the population will start to decline eventually.

[–]sedaak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesnt. Any remarks of predictions based on past performance are objectively retarded.

Follow some real trends like whether it fits the scenario or modern usage/transaction volume.

[–]KnowBrainer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It closely follows a hyperbola of formula y=1/x5

The asymptote is coming around July 2018. I don't know what formula it will follow then.

[–]mrfreeze2000 5 points6 points  (0 children)

$600B valuation for a currncy even Steam wont accept seems a bit excessive, doesnt it?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The news stories though about random cryptominers spiking...if you start hearing stories about grandmas taking out loans to buy bitcoin. Run don't walk.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A little? It dropped to 1/4th it's value and stayed like that for years.

[–]westbamm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2013? Really.....

[–]--CaptainPlanet-- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

they were right

[–]ultronic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The creator hadnt dumped all his litecoin then and there werent as many alt coins around.

[–]OR-1992 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They didn't have futures. Now you have cash cows who can buy and sell their bitcoin to lower the cost after they bet against the currency. Then they buy it at the lower price, cycle begins anew.

[–]SecondChanceUsername 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the bubble bursting fear is for the most part past BTC at this point. There will be dives and recoveries always but now that there has been people paying 20k for 1`Bitcoin, i think a lot of people lost some skeptical-ness.Or at the very least are willing to overlook there prior skepticism because the potential rewrd is more likely worth the risk to the majority of investors.

[–]Cuddlyaxe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Crypto-hype has always existed, it feels like the reason it's taking off this time though is because we know the instigator - Trump.

The price went up about 30 dollars within minutes of Trump being elected (it was still in the 700's at that time so much bigger deal back then) and continued to surge. It was seen as a safe haven, much like gold, but geekier.

The surge, since it actually had an instigator and wasn't based on hype built on hype was actually somewhat sustained. I mean look back how in 2013 or 2014 it reached highs of 300 and crashed to 50 in a matter of days. The price kept going up because people had a reason to buy

And since the price was going up like that, people who aren't geeks or preppers start taking notice. "Hey look at that its SURGING in price! It's the next big thing!".

This time really does feel like the bubble, it'll pop when some sort of large crackdown on crypto happens by the gov't or signs of stability start showing in the real world causing actual investors to sell in droves causing that good ol' chain reaction we get without financial protections

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i did too. but i think im gonna buy some bitcoin cash and eth with it. haha

[–]sedaak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Litecoin has no purpose and a lot of publicity. Some altcoins have purpose. Roll the dice.

[–]xingx35 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Question Why does coinbase have such a large influence on bit coin even though the system is supposed to keep it unregulated?

[–]phragmatic 23 points24 points  (9 children)

It may have been insider trading, it may have been the fact that it's seen as "related" to bitcoin. But Coinbase is investigating the matter, because apparently some employees made some "moves" to take advantage of the whole situation, which very well could be insider trading.

We shall see. I just sit back with my popcorn and smile.

[–]geeky_username 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why wouldn't you use "insider trading" on a crypto currency?

  1. It's not illegal

  2. What's the punishment? Oh shit, maybe you lose your job? But you potentially make several years worth of salary due to coin price inflation.

[–]EatMyPoopiePies 40 points41 points  (5 children)

Everyone is pissed that Coinbase added a currency created by a scam artist, pumped the price, allowed insiders to dump it at said price, then lock everyone else out. Why are you people upset? Didn’t you see this coming?

[–]loungeboy79 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Greed can give people some pretty big blind spots. How they didn't see any lockout or ANY legal problems is another level.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It scares me that it's becoming so mainstream because a lot of people will get screwed over on things like this. Hardly anybody has any real idea of what's going on with crypto.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey guys, I found the cryptocurrency circle jerk I've been hearing about

[–]Acrimony01 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Is anyone surprised?

Bitcoin has issues, but it's certainly not going to be solved with a hostile takeover by a felon (Ver), a Chinese miner (Wu) and a con artist (Wright).

This is the 3rd attack by BCash. It has once again failed and thrown turbulence into the market.

[–]SoCo_cpp 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Bitcoin conspiracies are fun, but quite silly. The angry Bitcoin people, that even refuse to call Bitcoin Cash by its proper name. They are always complaining about some guy or another, rather than technical points.

[–]Acrimony01 3 points4 points  (0 children)

that even refuse to call Bitcoin Cash by its proper name

You mean Bcash?

technical points

ETH, Stellar, Litecoin and Vertcoin are better in every way. What's your point?

some guy

You mean the criminals and their associates that run bcash?

[–]sedaak 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tansaction costs have already eliminated the market.

[–]elephino1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Here comes the regulation...

[–]ReducedFat 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I never liked math, until now...

www.bitcoinmoonmath.com/

[–]aasteveo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

When I saw the split last night, the massive climb and immediate selloff.... it all screamed "insider"

[–]SharksFan1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The split (fork) happened on August 1st.

[–]UnionVGF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An internet fantasy currency, created by an anonymous person, gained notoriety by being used to buy illegal goods, may somehow be artificially inflated in value? You don't say?

[–]BlackBugs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here check this out : https://redd.it/7l6nob

[–]neus111 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're involved with Cryptocurrency in any capacity you need to realize that this is currently an unregulated market. Act accordingly, btfd, and hodl.

[–]BroadwayBully -3 points-2 points  (4 children)

"B..B...But its nothing like a stock. Its crypto currency you don't understand. block chain technology is going to change the world." just next level sheep, nothing to see here

[–]worldsbestuser 0 points1 point  (1 child)

saving this so i can laugh at you 2 years from now

RemindMe! 730 days

[–]BroadwayBully 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lmao wasting your time.. i own crypto myself the better you do the better i do. i'll laugh with ya.... straight to the bank. i just think ppl that are oblivious to this world are funny.

[–]FauxShizzle 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Although there have been other Bitcoin splits before, this "fork" was unusual in that everyone who owned the original virtual currency was offered a matching sum of Bitcoin Cash. This effectively created money out of nothing.

I am disappoint, BBC. This is how BTC forks work.

[–]iamedreed 1 point2 points  (4 children)

excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong with that statement?

[–]apexplosive 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Coins are only worth what people believe they are worth.

[–]iamedreed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ok, what's your point?

[–]FauxShizzle 0 points1 point  (1 child)

this "fork" was unusual in that everyone who owned the original virtual currency was offered a matching sum of Bitcoin Cash

Every BTC hardfork gives you an equal amount of both coins. It was the same with Bitcoin Gold and Bitcoin Platinum. The difference here is that people are actually buying this hardfork coin so people are able to sell it for something.

[–]iamedreed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ok i see what you're saying now, i thought they were referring to the difference between the soft/hard forks and that this was the first real hard fork of bitcoin that generated another coin.

[–]ilive2lift 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When anyone and their dog can buy and sell a "market" item then your market is going to be unstable as fuck.