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DISCUSSIONWhy Bitcoin Cash? Don't we know it's scammy? (self.CryptoCurrency)

submitted by TheRedBaron11

I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam. I'm not trying to fud or throw shade, I'm genuinely asking if people believe in the project. It is up 40% over 24 hours and frankly I'm very surprised. Tell me your opinions

Edit: Jesus, I get it guys. My word choice was shitty. I rephrase to avoid triggering all of you hyper-sensitive crypto-savants:

"Let us commence a discussion about the positives of BCH, so that I, a mere pleb, can learn from you, the wisest of all on this Earth, a different perspective than the one I previously attained (a perspective of which we shall not speak)"

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[–]overusedandunfunnyTin 168 points169 points  (75 children)

How you gonna ask for open debate while forcing a bias in your question?

[–]500239Bitcoin Cash 63 points64 points  (14 children)

that's what I asked OP. /u/TheRedBaron11

basically he's asking a loaded question. He might as well have asked. "Bitcoin cash is a scam and why?" It's so transparent.

[–]CaptainRelevant9K / 9K 🦭 38 points39 points  (9 children)

I get irrationally angry from the over/improper use of the word ‘scam’. A scam, in common parlance, is something criminally fraudulent: something that is meant to deceive, people are in fact deceived, and the deception was the proximate cause of a loss.

Here, people constantly use it to mean “I don’t like it”. They should just say “I don’t like it.”

[–]500239Bitcoin Cash 18 points19 points  (4 children)

but when they say the word scam it automatically steers the conversation to a darker place, which is their intent. Which is why /u/TheRedBaron11 did not call it scam, just 'scammy' aka weasel words.

[–]CaptainRelevant9K / 9K 🦭 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Yes, he both misused the word scam (my point) and subjectively skewed the audience of his question (your point).

[–]500239Bitcoin Cash 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Thank you.

He could have asked: "Why is Bitcoin Cash called a scam?" or "Is Bitcoin Cash a scam"

versus his: "Don't we know it's scammy?"

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        [–]ilovebkkGold | QC: CC 107, BCH 20 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        I’m surprised this is still alive. Oh wait, no I’m not. Read some other subs and see how bias r/cc is against bch.

        There’s proof of them deleting and removing pro bch content and they allow anything bashing bch.

        I’m on neither side but I don’t think it’s right to have extreme bias as they do.

        Soon this sub will as bad as r/bitcoin if this keeps up. It’s just a noobie brainwashing sub.

        [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (57 children)

        Because its probably not a genuine question and he knows it.

        [–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (56 children)

        I disagree, mostly because I think I understand where he's coming from.

        I don't know shit about Bitcoin Cash besides it's a Bitcoin fork and 80% of the discussion I see around it is negative. I don't trash it (and I don't think OP is trashing it here), because I don't know anything about it, but my perception of BCH is negative because that's most of what I see about it. So why is it still holding such a big market cap, and why is it outgaining the rest of the market?

        [–]xenyzGold | QC: BCH 41, CC 23 | r/Android 315 25 points26 points  (15 children)

        You're probably getting all your info from Reddit where (positive) posts about it are censored in most subreddits (including this one) outside the 'home' in r/btc

        Edit: positive posts, negative posts are a-OK

        [–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (3 children)

        One thing that is important to know is that BCH (big block supporters) has been under a massive trolling and disinformation campaign even before the split was official, and it has been going on since 2014.

        I suggest checking this out if you really want the whole story, which is a long and bitter one to say the least. Few are aware of Bitcoin's dark history and corporate takeover.

        https://www.yours.org/content/the-bitcoin-scaling-wars---part-1---the-dark-ages-d71e23cffbe7

        **thanks for the gold stranger

        [–]exmachinalibertas204 / 204 🦀 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Hear hear! I've been in the space since early 2011 and watched everything unfold real time. The Great Bitcoin Civil War has been extremely educational in seeing how identity politics gets started, how trolls and disinformation can really infect communities, and how rational people fall down that slippery slope and go completely insane. As painful as it has been, I feel fortunate to have witnessed it as well as the 2016 US presidential campaign because now I know how all of this shit can happen. It has been truly fascinating and extremely instructive.

        [–]---Mike----Crypto God | QC: BCH 99 22 points23 points  (32 children)

        Because you were mislead by enemies of Bitcoin-as-payments. Ask yourself why these "experts" talk shit about BCH and let thousands of shitcoins slide. They shill GRIN and LN and LTC but the p2p cash version of Bitcoin "iz a ScAm". Do your own research, bud.

        [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (31 children)

        Can you explain to me what the advantages of Bitcoin Cash are compared to Bitcoin?

        [–]CatatonicAdenosinePlatinum | QC: BCH 1501, CC 118, ETH 29 | TraderSubs 17 17 points18 points  (1 child)

        For starters, Bitcoin Cash has low fees, which is definitely important for electronic cash. And because there's no artificial cap on the blocksize (the hard limit is currently 32mb), fees will stay at 1 sat/byte (currently about $0.0004 - $0.0006 per tx) for next block confirmation, for the foreseeable future. In fact, I expect the fee rate to drop (halve) with the next halving.

        But the real difference between Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin BTC is that Bitcoin Cash is focused on continuing to improve the protocol (with 6 month hardforks) to make it capable handling the on-chain capacity necessary for global adoption, as well as improving its monetary qualities (like instant transactions). The aim is to make the Bitcoin Cash blockchain usable for everyday cash payments: 10 billion people making 50 transactions per day.

        I think the commitment to this approach is fairly well illustrated by the development that's been happening on Bitcoin Cash in the last 18 months.:

        • Raised blocksize limit, currently 32 mb (Paypal capacity on-chain)
        • Canonical Transaction Ordering (allows block compression of 99.5% and validation sharding)
        • Tokens (SLP and Wormhole)
        • Re-enable old OP_Codes
        • Increased OP_Return size (enabling social media applications and tokens)
        • Schnorr signatures

        ​

        Ecosystem Development

        • CashShuffle developed as a standard for BCH wallets, giving trustless anonymity.
        • CashAccounts for named addresses on the blockchain
        • Web 3.0 development with Badger browser wallet for tokens and authentication/login with CashID
        • Bitbox developer toolkit

        ​

        Research and Development

        • Avalanche pre-consesnsus for instant transactions (transactions finalised in <3 seconds)
        • Blocktorrent to allow validation and broadcast of part-blocks (increases propagation speed and efficiency)
        • Stealth addresses (Allows HD wallet privacy whilst using CashAccounts)
        • Merklix Trees for block validation and construction at large scale and with server-side sharding
        • Adjustable blocksize limit (never have to have a blocksize debate again)

        [–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

        Primarily the "big feature" is just rolling back highly contentious changes to BTC that occurred since 2014.

        -Removal of the 1mb artificial limit that was not supposed to be forever, resulting in high throughput and low fees. Block sizes are meant to naturally float between economic forces, not central planning. Hitting the upper limit causes fee distortions and poor confirmation times because the network starts backlogging, like it is right now https://core.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,2d

        -Removal of Replace by fee, a system that encourages a blind auction for the limited transaction space of BTC. Basically that means whales can outbid you for faster confirmation times. This was never part of the original architecture or fee structure and causes gross distortions in fees

        -Firing Blockstream and the bought out Core developers that did this, who use censorship and disinformation to get what they want, none of whom were the original developers behind the first software versions of the Bitcoin whitepaper (Satoshi, Mike Hearn, and Gavin Andresson).

        -There are a few more optimizations that have occurred as the first real on-chain scaling upgrades in years, and new updates 6 months now similar to Monero.

        -BCH now has protocols like SLP to give it tokenization and smart contracting capability similar to Ethereum (ironically enough, ETH was originally going to be something like SLP on BTC. Vitalik Buterin was originally a Bitcoin dev, but Blockstreamers pushed him out)

        Theory goes that these changes were done to encourage users to go off-chain to third party middlemen networks like Lightning Network, and BTC being an expensive settlement layer for these LN banks, a complete bastardization of everything Bitcoin was originally conceived as.

        This is why BCH supporters say "BCH is Bitcoin", because it is the literal continuation of the original and successful protocol as of 2014 before hostile entities performed a takeover.

        [–]telefawx0 / 0 🦠 23 points24 points  (19 children)

        The transaction fees alone should speak for themselves. Before the Core Developers, bitcoin fees were essentially nothing, the way it was meant to be. Now, after SegWit and the LN, the fees are outrageous.

        Yet, on bitcoin cash, which didn't add this unnecessary and centralizing features, fees are essentially nothing.

        The core developers are frauds, IMO. Talking about how high fees are good for the ecosystem all of the sudden. Really. Why should BTC fees be 10 x higher than a VISA fee, other than to make the core developers more money?

        [–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

        LN is just a way for large companies to profit from BTC transactions. The large hubs will all be controlled by them, and the network won't work without them. They need BTC to be insanely slow and expensive so that people can't use it to transact and are forced onto the secondary layer they control and profit from. It's blatantly obvious, and it's impressive how many people they've convinced that this is a good idea when it's NOT EVEN NECESSARY. Fortunately it's such a complicated mess of a network and is so user unfriendly that it will never work properly anyway. Simplicity and a good user experience will win. BCH is easy, fast and super cheap. More and more people are realizing they got duped which is why BCH adoption is exploding.

        [–]telefawx0 / 0 🦠 14 points15 points  (0 children)

        Agreed. It couldn't be more obvious. I mean, I'm all for them trying. If they can provide something of value in the market, they should get rewarded for it. As long as there is competition to balance it out and undercut them if they aren't actually providing value.

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          [–]anthropicistLow Crypto Activity 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          It's an experiment in retaining the game-theory dynamics that bootstrapped Bitcoin in 2011, and seeing where it goes. The hope is that a peer to peer currency worked before and became a valuable commodity as a side effect of being useful, so maybe it will continue to work in the future.

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                [–]Memec0in 108 points109 points  (8 children)

                I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam.

                According to r/cryptocurrency a scam is defined as any coin that is competing with one's investment and hence threatens the value of one's bags. You might want to think twice before listening to the fake consensus on reddit, because it's primarily controlled by bots and know-nothings.

                ​

                [–]NEXOlover 31 points32 points  (6 children)

                What he says.... anyone saying BCH is a scam is because they are either bitcoin maximalist or another altcoin maximalists.

                [–]throwawayLouisaPermabanned 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                That's pretty much right - about what draws us into the battle in the first place - because we're invested in something.

                But the key to whether we're right or not is the quality of our arguments - and how we back then up.

                If Hitler walks in telling me it's raining and he's soaking wet, I might believe him. (I might do some more research as well.)

                I don't think BCH is a "scam". I do think it's got technical flaws compared to my favourite. I could list them.
                But if your mind is already closed because "he would say that wouldn't he?" I'd probably be wasting my time because you're not actually reviewing the validity of the arguments for and against - you're just judging character.

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                    [–]mjh808Platinum | QC: BCH 404 86 points87 points  (47 children)

                    Some history on the divide https://hackernoon.com/the-great-bitcoin-scaling-debate-a-timeline-6108081dbada

                    ​

                    [–]WippleDippleDoo 43 points44 points  (5 children)

                    This explains the roots of BitcoinCash better:

                    https://medium.com/@johnblocke/a-brief-and-incomplete-history-of-censorship-in-r-bitcoin-c85a290fe43

                    [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 41 points42 points  (0 children)

                    should be standard reading for any bitcoin/crypto supporter

                    [–]SubfoldedPlatinum | QC: BTC 97, CC 36, MiningSubs 3 4 points5 points  (37 children)

                    Reading it now, but I got to this part: https://i.imgur.com/yHRzkrl.png

                    Isn't that EXACTLY what Veriblock is doing right now to completely **** up BTC's mempool? (I'm salty b/c I have a stuck 1sat/byte Tx for over a week now)

                    [–]cipher_gnome2K / 2K 🐢 32 points33 points  (0 children)

                    I'm salty b/c I have a stuck 1sat/byte Tx for over a week now

                    That is because of the 1MB block size limit.

                    [–]WippleDippleDoo 24 points25 points  (8 children)

                    " (I'm salty b/c I have a stuck 1sat/byte Tx for over a week now) "

                    The bitcoin network is deliberately crippled. This is why BitcoinCash split the Bitcoin blockchain on 01.08.2017.

                    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    (I'm salty b/c I have a stuck 1sat/byte Tx for over a week now)

                    And so you should be. It was never meant to be like this.

                    [–]AlexPegram1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 16 points17 points  (14 children)

                    If BTC was a functioning currency, it wouldnt be possible to screw up the mempool.

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                        [–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

                        There is no we

                        [–]saulin74Permabanned 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        Mmmm this is looking like Nov 2017, are we a really in a bull Market now?

                        Everything is moving way too fast. It seems like a huge trap is just around the corner

                        ​

                        [–]Zlatan4EverMoney is dead, long live the Money 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                        Love the edit LOL.

                        [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                        Haha <3

                        [–]AbrahamSTINKIN931 / 931 🦑 273 points274 points  (379 children)

                        It is not a scam. It is simply a fork of the original Bitcoin with an upgrade to its block size. There is fundamentally no difference between BTC and BCH aside from BCH having larger blocks. In turn, it can fit in more transactions per block mined....which in turn speeds up transaction times and keeps fees exceptionally low. The only part of it that people think is scammy is that the name "Bitcoin Cash" is too similar to the other side of the fork (Bitcoin/BTC), and people think that some of the leaders in the community are trying to trick newcomers into thinking it is the original bitcoin. In fact, many proponents of Bitcoin Cash DO believe it is the original Bitcoin.

                        [–][deleted] 110 points111 points  (56 children)

                        This isn't quite right. BTC added SegWit which BCH supporters reject. In fact the fork happened because the BCH community didn't want SegWit and it happened not long before BTC soft forked to SW.

                        Also Vitalik says BTC may have been a 'moral' fork of the original Bitcoin because of the refusal to raise the block size.

                        Disclaimer: I hold neither BTC or BCH.

                        [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 51 points52 points  (52 children)

                        BCH had bearly any supporters until segwit2x was sabotaged

                        [–]TyMyShoesPlatinum | QC: BCH 88 65 points66 points  (16 children)

                        I can attest to this. I was all for BTC (and Segregated Witness) as long as the blocksize was increased. They tried 8 mb, then 4, then 2, but still there was no compromise. It was about a 50-50 battle. They agreed on adding Segregated Witness as well as a fork to 2mb but once Segregated Witness activated they backed out on the 2mb. That was the last straw for me and I was a huge BTC supporter. I legit wore BTC t shirts everyday and introduced it to 100s of people.

                        [–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (2 children)

                        Same here, have been obsessed with Bitcoin for nearly a decade and wasn't a fan of SegWit but would have went along with it as long as it remained optional and the blocksize kept growing as it had been doing (softly) since the start. Once S2X bugged out I was fully out of BTC. In my case I never 'lost' any Bitcoin - I was given a choice between Bitcoin with large blocks and small blocks, and I went with the large blocks path.

                        [–]abcbtc1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                        I am of the same view - segwit was activated, 2x backed out, I lost faith.

                        [–]norfbayboy0 / 0 🦠 16 points17 points  (7 children)

                        Firstly, the "compromise" you are talking about amounted compromising what is essentially a security setting. The big block arguments in favor of doing so were based on the "urgent need" to increase on-chain capacity, because some other crypto was about to over take Bitcoin in market cap or some other irrelevant metric.

                        Secondly, SW2X failed all on it's own because of a "off-by-one" error in the code. The SW2X nodes froze at block 494,782. It was poorly coded and tested.

                        Third, the folks who "backed out" were the same companies who had been pushing for it for months, not the Core development team, who (iirc) never endorsed the SW2X fork. You can't accuse people who never supported something of backing out when they were never on-board in the first place.

                        BCH cultivated it's reputation as being scammy because of the intellectual dishonesty of it's supporters.

                        [–]LovelyDayPlatinum | QC: BCH 7792, BTC 205, CC 60 | r/Technology 60 4 points5 points  (2 children)

                        Secondly, SW2X failed all on it's own because of a "off-by-one" error in the code. The SW2X nodes froze at block 494,782. It was poorly coded and tested.

                        While there was an error in the code, the S2X was abandoned before the fork was supposed to take place.

                        Even an error such as you described could easily be fixed by their team and the miners, allowing the fork to continue.

                        It was abandoned for political reasons.

                        [–]norfbayboy0 / 0 🦠 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                        Yeah, because SW2X was very unpopular. There was nothing approaching consensus for the SW2X hard fork. It would have been political suicide for the companies who proposed, designed and supported that fork (mostly Barry Silbert's DCG), to disregard all the users, miners, noders, coders, wallets, exchanges and businesses who were very clearly opposed to it. The combination of consensus, POW and meritocracy within the market place of ideas was designed to deny and defy the influence of small, self-interested groups such as DCG, or if you like, the Bitmain mining cartel the 21 members of the Bitcoin Unlimited group who produced the BCC BCH fork.

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                          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                          Same here, Bitcoin and it's communication channels are under control of few anonymous maniacs. They are promoting their bank like LN network instead of increasing the block size.

                          It will die slowly but surely. I don't hold any Bitcoin flavor anymore.

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                            [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

                            I think it is worth adding that this includes Roger Ver who supported S2X, only supporting BCH well after it was clear S2X was just another gaslit scam to get SegWit in place since that was the only way Blockstream could get it done: shady, underhanded and dishonorable discourse, like everything they've done.

                            [–]chainxorPlatinum | QC: BCH 914 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                            That is true. This was also when Roger Ver decided to flip to BCH - when the SegWit2X compromise failed. Until then Ver was trying/hoping for SegWit2X (as was I, but I doubled down as well on BCH after that).

                            [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                            It was when I flipped aswell, sold my entire btc stack

                            [–]WippleDippleDoo 21 points22 points  (2 children)

                            BCH did not exist at that time.

                            BCH was the last resort action to save the bitcoin blockchain from blockstream's hostile takeover.

                            [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                            It did exist, bch forked August 1st, Segwit activated 2 weeks later, Segwit2x was supposed to happen in November

                            [–]WippleDippleDoo 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                            In that regard, yes, segwit was crucial to be prevented.

                            A lot of people knew that segshit2x is just a bait and switch.

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                              [–]WippleDippleDoo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                              Segwit proved to be a farce, as predicted by the everyone who helped BitcoinCash to take off.

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                                [–]Malawi_noTin 30 points31 points  (8 children)

                                Yes. Satoshi talked about scaling block size with transaction volume. He did not speak of segwit(or anything like it).

                                [–]Magjee0 / 0 🦠 6 points7 points  (7 children)

                                The block size scaling is logical and necessary

                                Not sure if segwit was talked about before he disappeared

                                [–]Malawi_noTin 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                                Segwit is probably long after he disappeared.

                                But the block scaling was one of the cores of Bitcoin.
                                The thought was that as bitcoin became more popular and valuable, machine power, storage space and bandwidth would also become cheaper(as it has been). Thus it would be natural to increase block-sizes and the increased hash-power(and distribution) would make it even more secure.

                                On the other hand - I think bitcoin have become quite a bit more valuable than anticipated. I also think Satoshi never envisioned the large mining-farms that have popped up.

                                Guess experience have shown that the bitcoin mining-network scales very well, and the transaction part of it would also have scaled very well if block-sizes had been increased over time. Guess the big flaw in a way is that there is no automatic scaling of the block-size built into the original program(the same way difficulty is scaled automatically), as it would have done segwit into a moot proposition.

                                [–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                Segregated Witness was entirely the invention of Blockstream developers. It did address a couple issues concerning transaction malleability, but did so in the most ass backwards way possible that added severe technical debts that were completely unnecessary.

                                [–]twasjc127 / 127 🦀 18 points19 points  (3 children)

                                I think people think it's scammy because of Roger Ver

                                [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                                He got a pretty heavy backlash over that little renaming stunt of his from both sides of the aisle. It was changed back within a week.

                                He is a passionate and earnest man I believe, but he lacks judgement at times. I support BCH and I was baffled by his decision to do that since it does indeed seem deceptive.

                                [–]ejfrodoPlatinum | QC: CC 159, BTC 100, CM 15 | JavaScript 47 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                Yup that's really it. The fact that Roger was a driving force behind bitcoin.com being for BCH, and him owning the @bitcoin Twitter handle for BCH, is where the scam allegations really come from. It was a massive attempt to make BCH the "true Bitcoin" and it really confused a lot of beginners who didn't know better. I don't think many ppl had as much of a problem with the tech as they did with it's deceptive marketing.

                                [–]VeritasSapereSilver | QC: BCH 45 69 points70 points  (89 children)

                                It can be argued that BTC is a fork of the original Bitcoin as well. Since the BCH split occurred in response to a controversial change being pushed through by Core and its supporters, known as segwit and UASF.

                                BCH was only formed after more then four years of debate attempting to increase the blocksize limit, which Core and its supporters refused. Core then proceeded to push in their controversial changes regardless of support. It was only in response to this that the chain actually split.

                                This is why many old Bitcoiners such as myself do perceive BCH as being the true Bitcoin since it is also most consistent with the original vision.

                                [–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (30 children)

                                The problem I have is fraudulently misrepresenting BCH as the "true Bitcoin". It's not. It's a fork. The majority of the network and development community stuck with BTC when presented with the option of supporting bigger blocks.

                                The way the entire project is marketing is as an attempt to steal Bitcoin's branding and thats why r/btc, bitcoin.com and @bitcoin addresses have all been co-opted to be marketing channels for BCH.

                                I personally dont care that BCH exists, I care that they have perpetuated a campaign to make claims they are the real Bitcoin and as a result potentially defrauding new users through Bitcoin branded channels that continue to push a false narrative that BCH is the real Bitcoin.

                                The market decided to support BTC. The miners decided to support BTC. The developers decided to support BTC. The "real" Bitcoin has separated itself far and above Bitcoin Cash. There is no flamboyant marketer with a questionable history teamed up with one of the largest mining cartels with a questionable history pushing Bitcoin like there is for Bitcoin Cash.

                                You know why people think it's a scam? Bitcoin Cash looks, acts, and markets itself as one, complete with it's own pseudo-religion and false God. Real competitors differentiate themselves and deliver messaging as to why they are better not try to dress themselves up and pass themselves off as their competition. Counterfeiters do that.

                                [–]victorfiction 5 points6 points  (21 children)

                                You can get into the politics of it, but BCH works how I’ve always expect BTC to work... that’s the bottom line of it. That’s why I use it over BTC.

                                The hard 1mb limit is stupid and was never the intention of Bitcoin to begin with. Before that it was a .5mb limit but they made bigger blocks for a good reason.

                                You talk about religion, but I can’t think of anything more zealous than holding onto an inferior chain just because it’s old.

                                [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (18 children)

                                The bottom line is BCH was so jacked up after the hard fork with SV that the exchanges froze trading. You guys babble on about "Satoshi's Vision" like zealots. Bitcoin is the superior chain because it has stood the test of time and been secure the entire time. Bitcoin Cash is the inferior chain that has had double spends and needs intervention by exchanges to track transactions using dust trades just to secure customer funds.

                                BCH hasnt proven that we needed bigger blocks. There's barely any volume. They cant even consistently fill 1MB blocks.

                                The entire time they keep trying to say they are the "real" bitcoin. The definition of fraud is misrepresentation with the motivation to profit and that perfectly describes the way Roger decides to market Bitcoin Cash not on it's own merits, but on its similarities to Bitcoin and calling it the "real" Bitcoin.

                                [–]Nooby1990 3 points4 points  (15 children)

                                Bitcoin Cash is the inferior chain that has had double spends and needs intervention by exchanges to track transactions using dust trades just to secure customer funds.

                                That sounds interesting, can you provide a source on that?

                                [–]typtyphus323 / 443 🦞 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                Satoshi envisioned bitcoiners would be tyrannical about keeping the blocksize small.

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                                    [–]Stobie30 / 5K 🦐 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                                    The original bitcoin is dead, it had int max bitcoins on it from a bug. What is called BTC now is a fork.

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                                      [–]TnekKralc 2 points3 points  (4 children)

                                      I actually really like bch I just hate R/BTC because no matter the "we were censored and showed up before the fork" whining they do when you point this out they still use the ticket name BTC to promote a coin that doesn't use the ticket BTC or "Bitcoin" at a single exchange.

                                      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                      Basically this.

                                      [–]---Mike----Crypto God | QC: BCH 99 9 points10 points  (88 children)

                                      It's not the "original" and no one tried to trick anyone. That's fud.

                                      Which came first or second isn't really important. There are both here, one is BTC one is BCH. One is for payments and one is a settlement layer for LN.

                                      BCH is the version optimized for payments. Also there are many other differences besides larger max block size. BCH removed cancerous Replace-by-fee, for instance.

                                      [–]Precedens490 / 491 🦞 22 points23 points  (11 children)

                                      no one tried to trick anyone

                                      Like, how can you say that with straight face?

                                      [–]SoulMechanicPlatinum | QC: BCH 1448, CC 154, XMR 37 | r/SSB 9 | Politics 34 32 points33 points  (0 children)

                                      Because it's a philosophical argument, not a literal one, that's how.

                                      I've been in Bitcoin since the beginning when traditional investors were calling crypto itself a scam. All you're doing is the same thing.

                                      People can buy and use whatever they want, but calling either a scam is a waste of time.

                                      [–]saddit42Bitcoiner 15 points16 points  (0 children)

                                      The trick is that BTC was turned into an ICO for experimental lightning network tech. Good luck with that. You've been played.

                                      [–]horsebadlydrawntrader with BCH bias 9 points10 points  (8 children)

                                      no one tried to trick anyone

                                      The whole space is based on technical people tricking non-technical people. But BTC Core team has been the most despicable in this game - they literally fleeced the entire BTC crew into believing 1MB4Eva and Lightning Herpaderp. Now it's game over time.

                                      [–]BellBottomSkoosFluffhead 11 points12 points  (32 children)

                                      It's not the "original" and no one tried to trick anyone. That's fud.

                                      Oh give me a freaking break with that. Taking over the Bitcoin twitter and trying to make people think that BCH is actually BTC?

                                      That's deceitful and scammy as shit. I got nothing against BCH itself, but if it's so great let it stand on it's own instead of making it a cheap knockoff.

                                      [–]chalbersmaTin | Superstonk 52 21 points22 points  (5 children)

                                      Oh give me a freaking break with that. Taking over the Bitcoin twitter and trying to make people think that BCH is actually BTC?

                                      The Bitcoin twitter wasn't taken over, the guy who owned it before owns it now.

                                      [–]libertarian0x0Platinum | QC: CC 76, BCH 640 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                      Yes, and this guy was an early adopter who, like many other early adopters, move to Bitcoin Cash.

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                                        [–]oinklittlepiggyTin 23 points24 points  (5 children)

                                        dude.. the only thing that makes BTC still BTC is it won the hashwar immediately preceeding the fork.

                                        Had BCH won the hashwar.. it would be called BTC and you would likely have the exact opposite opinion.

                                        Both of their ledgers go back to the genesis block.

                                        BTC isn't even what BTC is supposed to be anymore..

                                        It has changed from p2p digital currency to a digital store of value.. not even close to what the whitepaper says it is.

                                        I don't have a problem with BTC or BCH.. in my opinion, they are both slow, have scaling problems, and not suitable for small transactions..

                                        But if I had to choose between the 2 as to which one makes sense as a p2p currency.. its clearly BCH all day.

                                        [–]rawb0tCrypto God | QC: BCH 331, CC 88 13 points14 points  (18 children)

                                        Taking over the Bitcoin twitter

                                        how does a person "take over" something they already own and control?

                                        [–]jessquit0 / 0 🦠 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                        Taking over the Bitcoin twitter and trying to make people think that BCH is actually BTC?

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                                            [–]tranceology30 / 36K 🦠 75 points76 points  (47 children)

                                            I don't care for bitcoin cash either way. But this idea that the "internet" has established it as a scam is what the problem here in reddit is. No one does research, people follow the herd and only listen to up votes or down votes. Please, until something is proven a "scam" like a real scam such as many ICOs that went dark or Bitconnect can you make a conclusion that the rest of us all agree it's a scam.

                                            [–]RossdaleNLSilver | QC: CC 26 | VET 88 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                            The BTC and BCH debate, is like debating religion.

                                            ​

                                            BTC (the original) is like the Catholist church.

                                            BCH is a spinoff with the same endgoal, but just with a slightly different approach. Just like the Protestant church.

                                            ​

                                            Nobody can be sure which version is right in the end, or if they are right at all.

                                            ​

                                            Both groups have a great amount of followers, which are very devoted and truly believe their view is the only correct one. Both parties have representatives with dubious motives which bring shame to their community. Being it either "Children friendly" priests, or Roger Ver and Jihan Wu scamming the hell out of their followers.

                                            ​

                                            Oh and then there is BCSV, which is like scientology. Nobody takes those guys seriously, and they're only in it for the money.

                                            [–]SQRTLURFACESilver | QC: GPUMining 42 13 points14 points  (4 children)

                                            I'm not that surprised. The market has broken out and several coins aren't all that far behind it. Look at Doge (currently) in the mid 30% range today atop the market breakout, on a rumor that elon musk was an interested party in the project (which is merely a joke). Sometimes market sellers pull back and let the buying happen. With BCH as crippled as it was from the divide with BSV, I'm not even remotely surprised its seen a seller pull back to let the buyers reset the the price. These types of contractions are going to happen all the time for any various coin.

                                            [–]Andrew_TraceyGold | QC: CC 32, BTC 19 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                            This is one of the best responses in here...thank you.

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                                              [–]anothertimewaster0 / 0 🦠 27 points28 points  (6 children)

                                              I was all in on BTC. I even built a crude BTC ATM I set up to educate people about BTC. (Check my post history) I watched Blocksteam come in and change the peer to peer narrative. They censored discussion and crippled layer one in an attempt to drive people off chain where their investors could profit. BCH forked to preserve the idea I fell in love with. BCH wants to be the worlds peer to peer cash. This is Bitcoin.

                                              [–]honestlyimeanreallyPlatinum | QC: XMR 772, CC 250, ETH 30 | MiningSubs 50 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                              Cash is fungible. Bitcoin (both BTC and BCH) are not.

                                              See: tainted coins, exchanges freezing flagged coins, etc.

                                              People think taint doesn’t matter, but its importance will grow exponentially as crypto’s usage does. Mark my words.

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                                                [–]rawb0tCrypto God | QC: BCH 331, CC 88 70 points71 points  (9 children)

                                                It's not a scam at all. That's just some nonsense regurgitated over and over by people that don't understand crypto or just want to watch their non-BCH bags grow.

                                                Lots of awesome stuff coming out in the BCH space. Check out CashAccounts for example, which makes it possible to send money to me by sending money to robbot#102 instead of some long ass address.

                                                Check out Cash Shuffle which is a solid way of making your coins far more private.

                                                [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 20 points21 points  (3 children)

                                                Also Simple Tokens on bch just like ethereum

                                                [–]rawb0tCrypto God | QC: BCH 331, CC 88 15 points16 points  (2 children)

                                                How could I forget? I've been collecting a few of those myself. Namely Spice tokens

                                                [–]TyMyShoesPlatinum | QC: BCH 88 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                Also https://memo.cash/posts/ranked which is an uncensorable reddit type application using on chain transactions, something practically impossible to do on BTC due to scaling limitations.

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                                                  [–]mjh808Platinum | QC: BCH 404 31 points32 points  (2 children)

                                                  No it's not a scam, its backers are mostly people that used bitcoin in the early days who just wanted bitcoin to continue as peer to peer cash before it was hijacked through censorship and propaganda. That propaganda continues today with the scam label just because one high profile member of the community who helped make bitcoin what it is today decided to support it and state BCH is bitcoin and while arguments could be made for that, it's just as much out of anger over what happened to bitcoin as anything else.

                                                  [–]Sly21C 32 points33 points  (6 children)

                                                  People who believe BCH is a scam have been misinformed, and some are brainwashed. Their brains are fed, daily, with deliberate lies. Some people who refuse to use their God given brain neurons to think critically fall victim to this.

                                                  [–]500239Bitcoin Cash 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                  neurons not neutrons

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                                                    [–]outhereinamish 37 points38 points  (52 children)

                                                    Do your own research. It’s not a scam, it’s btc with bigger blocks.

                                                    [–]500239Bitcoin Cash 33 points34 points  (9 children)

                                                    that works today, right now.

                                                    Not in 18 months...well now 4.5 years since Lightning was announced.

                                                    [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 5 points6 points  (18 children)

                                                    Lol I understand this much. If the issue were as simple as "big blocks means better" then it wouldn't have been an issue. My understanding (yes, after research) was that the increase in block size yielded short-term gains that we're useful for marketing and political reasons during the boom, but that it was also more like a band-aid solution. My understanding was that the bandaid not only simply delayed the inevitable, but also that it had other long-term consequences that most BTC developers agreed were not worth it.

                                                    Just because my understanding is incomplete (or simply different, still am not sure) does not mean I have done no research. This holier-than-thou mentality is what drives people away from crypto. Admit that the space is complicated and that peoples ignorance does not necessarily mean a lack of effort. Give a little grace to those who are not blessed with your level of knowledge please

                                                    [–]outhereinamish 15 points16 points  (4 children)

                                                    Ok, let me rephrase. Do research on both sides. When I first go into crypto I mainly visited this sub and r/bitcoin. BCH didn't exist then, but from my time on the subs I had a vague notion that big blocks would destroy btc and any big blocker was evil incarnate. When bch first came out I remember people calling it a chinese scam coin. The goal posts have shifted and the name calling has changed, but people who are very anti-bch prob arn't going away just yet. I wasn't trying to be holier than thou, it's just from my experience that people who believe bch is a scam are only listening to one side (I used to be like this myself).

                                                    [–]cipher_gnome2K / 2K 🐢 18 points19 points  (8 children)

                                                    Have you considered what problems sticking to a 1MB block size limit causes?

                                                    [–]JustSomeBadAdvice1K / 1K 🐢 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                    My understanding was that the bandaid not only simply delayed the inevitable,

                                                    Not exactly. Bitcoin by itself can scale to worldwide levels without sacrificing decentralization. In particular BTC fans latch onto centralizing mining as a fear - Except that miners do not process transactions (ONLY block headers, 80 bytes + log-n merkle path), so blocksize increases do not affect them.

                                                    but also that it had other long-term consequences that most BTC developers agreed were not worth it.

                                                    There are no long term consequences other than vague handwavy "we need more nodes" (But why and how many do we need???).

                                                    The issue comes down to splitting the difference between what it costs to run a full node versus what it costs to transact. In December 2017 it was $5 per month to run a full node and $55 per transaction to transact. Today it is $2 per transaction and still $5 per month to run a full node. There's no limit to how high fees can rise; Demand for blockspace is very inelastic when people need to move money.

                                                    People that don't transact and are used to running all of their IT projects out of their home favor the much cheaper node costs to the exclusion of all else. Those are the people who made the decisions for Bitcoin, and since they were the developers, everyone else followed along by default. Businesses(Who NEED Bitcoin to scale) attempted to address this problem reasonably and were attacked viciously for it.

                                                    There are numerous arguments in favor of increasing the blocksize, too many to list here. Those arguments were quashed by silencing and banning those in favor of them starting in late 2015 and continuing today.

                                                    [–]BigBlockIfTruePlatinum | QC: BCH 1067 | r/Buttcoin 24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                    The Bitcoin Cash community not only increases the numeric value of the block size limit, but also develops improvements to node software performance and block propagation techniques (e.g. Graphene, XThin(ner)) to handle big blocks better, and makes changes to the consensus rules to make the bitcoin protocol itself more suitable for high block sizes and transaction counts (e.g. quadratic hashing fix, canonical transaction order, Schnorr signatures). In other words, they're working hard to reduce/eliminate the disadvantages of a higher block size limit.

                                                    The focus is not on kicking the can down the road, but on making the road longer. During this process, the position of the can improves continuously.

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                                                        [–]taipalagPlatinum | QC: BCH 44, CC 15 | EOS 22 32 points33 points  (9 children)

                                                        I’m sorry to say that you have fallen to the huge social media manipulation that started back in 2015 in /r/Bitcoin to shut down any discussion about increasing Bitcoin’s block size.

                                                        Everything that followed, the expulsion of “big blockers” from that sub, the move from banned users to /r/btc, the unsuccessful competing big block Bitcoin forks such as Bitcoin Classic, the Hong Kong agreement not being honored by the Core team, the Bitcoin Cash fork, the campaign against the Segwit2X fork, the NPC Twitter, Youtube and Reddit trolls, etc. etc., all can be traced back to that moment in 2015 when Theymos returned from a “vacation” and started the censorship and social media campaigns.

                                                        There’s a sticky in the /r/btc sub to that discussion and many more. You should go over there and start reading the links in the sticky.

                                                        [–]SamsungGalaxyPlayer[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (13 children)

                                                        I'm leaving this up only because the discussion seems a little better than usual. Remember rule 1, and report posts that violate it and other rules.

                                                        [–]SubfoldedPlatinum | QC: BTC 97, CC 36, MiningSubs 3 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                        People on both sides are a lot less salty today because both coins had a nice pop. ;-)

                                                        [–]BitcoinXioPlatinum | QC: BCH 3364, BTC 108, CC 22 | r/Buttcoin 5 20 points21 points  (3 children)

                                                        LOL

                                                        "I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam."

                                                        Okay, at least an open discussion is being had. Thanks for that.

                                                        [–]SamsungGalaxyPlayer[M] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                                        As I stated, this normally is not allowed. I am keeping it mostly because of this top comment.

                                                        [–]BitcoinXioPlatinum | QC: BCH 3364, BTC 108, CC 22 | r/Buttcoin 5 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                        Thanks.

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                                                          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                          How were the rules of this sub formed? Were the members of the community directly involved? Genuine question.

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                                                            [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children)

                                                            Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is the real deal.

                                                            This idea that you need restrictions on the revolutionary blockchain "for your protection" is a joke. What would bankers want? They would want restrictions on the revolutionary bitcoin blockchain. Think about it.

                                                            There is a ton of disinfo and it's all designed to confused you. If you think BCH is a scam, I recommend forgetting everything you think you know about Bitcoin Cash and starting over.

                                                            [–]No1indahoodgCrypto God | QC: BCH 347, CC 15 17 points18 points  (8 children)

                                                            BCH was way oversold and actually has utility. Not to mention that BCH has a small community of ex-BTC supporters/developers around it. Combine all of this with a constant increase in merchant adoption and this pump was just a matter of time.

                                                            [–]PumpkinSpiteLatteBronze 33 points34 points  (35 children)

                                                            Only people that are newer to crypto think this.

                                                            [–]downquark5Silver | QC: XRP 61 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                            It was the only big proof of work coin that actually worked quickly with low transaction fees during that last boom. ETH was having issues when it was $1,000/coin and BTC had enormous transaction fees, tons of unconfirmed transactions, and was slow. Folks easily forget even though it wasn't that long ago.

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                                                              [–]fuckbctkurtLow Crypto Activity 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                                              Well, we can all agree that BSV is a scam we all love to hate :)

                                                              [–]LN_questionBronze 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                              LOL, I don't think it's a scam... more like "good riddance to bad rubbish" players in the space

                                                              [–]BitcoinXioPlatinum | QC: BCH 3364, BTC 108, CC 22 | r/Buttcoin 5 28 points29 points  (9 children)

                                                              "I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam."

                                                              No, not at all. BCH is one of the best coins on the market and even with this bull run it's severely under valued. Only toxic people that are pro-BTC to a fault say it's a scam. It's not a scam at all.

                                                              If you think it's a scam, please explain how it's scamming people, thanks.

                                                              [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

                                                              My purpose with this post was not to explain and attempt to justify my flawed understanding. It was to obtain the opinions of others because I saw evidence that my understanding was flawed...

                                                              [–]SoulMechanicPlatinum | QC: BCH 1448, CC 154, XMR 37 | r/SSB 9 | Politics 34 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                              This is the right attitude to have, keep an open mind and the truth becomes more and more clear.

                                                              There's a good reason a lot of veteran Bitcoiners moved over to Bitcoin cash.

                                                              I got in fairly early, I've been around long enough to remember when rbitcoin had tipping bots and the community was exploding with excitement, we knew this could lead to big things. Then almost over night rbitcoin banned them and called tipping to other redditors "spam". What!?

                                                              Why are mods concerned with what I do with my money? Why is permissionless money now being permissioned?

                                                              Keep asking questions OP, you're on the right track.

                                                              [–]driftingatwork130 / 131 🦀 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                              That alone means you will do just fine :D Always looking for an objective opinion is a great way to grow. Keep at it!

                                                              [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                              Thank you for being open minded enough and strong enough to challenge your assumptions instead of doubling down on ignorance like so many do.

                                                              This might help your understanding, this is a twisted history to navigate to be sure

                                                              https://www.yours.org/content/the-bitcoin-scaling-wars---part-1---the-dark-ages-d71e23cffbe7

                                                              [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                              Thank you for your response!

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                                                                  [–]Rude_Man_Who_Shushes263 / 263 🦞 6 points7 points  (20 children)

                                                                  People trade markets. BCH declined 98%. There is a lot of money to be made simply by trading without bias. I despise Roger Ver and am enjoying the comeuppance Jihan is receiving with his ousting from Bitmain. But logical traders set that aside because there is a lot of money to be made trading this. My 2 cents.

                                                                  [–]MarchewkaCzerwonaSilver | QC: BCH 684, CC 48 | Buttcoin 45 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Don't "we" know it's scammy?

                                                                  You were told it is scam and you probably accepted it as truth. Problem is, that bitcoin was always supposed to have increased blocksize and it was supposed to be electronic p2p cash. Core/blockstream decided differently after satoshi left and you accepted that without questions?

                                                                  Bitcoin cash is attempt to bring bitcoin back as btc is crippled and derailed project.

                                                                  Who told you it is scam and why did you listen?

                                                                  DYOR, please.

                                                                  [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Dear mods, please don't ban me for being a BCH supporter. If you don't like my commentary then just remove the individual comment.

                                                                  Yes, i believe in Bitcoin Cash. Theres nothing inherently scammy about it, its 2017 Bitcoin, but Amuary removed the segwit crud, and forked the chain. Its a minority chain, but its what BTC would have looked like IF they upgraded the blocksize. Fees on BTC are like two dollars rn, fees on BCH are still far below a cent. I use Bitcoin cash irl, I've used it to buy things, to store money, etc... If you look at the Bitcoin.com domain and company, its been around for 7 years or more, and its got like a 97% safety rating from the "isthisascam" website or whatever it is.

                                                                  There is a legitimate disagreement on how to scale bitcoin. We, the disagreers, aren't scammers. We're competitors. Censoring us will not stop us.

                                                                  [–]andersrh 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Why do you see it as a scam? It's simply a version of Bitcoin with a roadmap focused towards on chain scaling. If BCH is a scam, BTC is a scam too.

                                                                  The only place I view it being possible that BCH is a scam, is inside the mind of religious people.

                                                                  Talking about scams who have made continuous promises they couldn't keep? That's right: the Lightning devs.

                                                                  So if we should find the real scammers I think most people look the wrong way.

                                                                  I know maybe I'm little bit harsh here, though at least I'm honest.

                                                                  [–]loveforyouandme0 / 0 🦠 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Definitely not a scam. Think for yourself, not your perception of what the Internet thinks, which is well incentivized to manipulate perception. It’s evident Satoshi intended to invent “peer-to-peer electronic cash” because it says so directly in the founding white paper. It’s not electronic cash if fees are $50+ which they will be again if BTC is to gain massive worldwide adoption. Bitcoin Cash exists solely as a reaction to BTC’s unwillingness to scale and reflects the spirit of what brought many original Bitcoiners to this space.

                                                                  [–]Bad_Carma22Platinum | QC: BCH 41, CC 15 15 points16 points  (9 children)

                                                                  Lol, you read a bunch of btc maximalists shitting on bch so it must be a scam. Bch is simply a fork of btc, scaled the was it was originally intended. Peer to peer digital CURRENCY.

                                                                  [–]mysteelersrock82Gold | QC: BTC 25, CC 19 | r/Investing 11 10 points11 points  (8 children)

                                                                  Shills are here

                                                                  [–]YarnyoshGold | QC: BCH 18, BTC 15 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                                                                  Did it ever occur to you that things on the internet aren’t always true?

                                                                  [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Wow how did you guess that's exactly why I made this post!

                                                                  I realized that the things I read on the internet were not true or entirely true, and asked for more input

                                                                  [–]DylanKid1K / 29K 🐢 11 points12 points  (1 child)

                                                                  Most people who joined crypto pre 2017 know bitcoin cash isn't a scam.

                                                                  It should be eye opening that vitalik/Brian Armstrong/bitpay/gavin Andresen/Mike Hearn and yes Roger ver are supporters of bch.

                                                                  Stop believing everything the anonymous avatars on twitter say, they are the ones manipulating crypto with their fake likes/upvotes/followers

                                                                  [–]---Mike----Crypto God | QC: BCH 99 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                                                                  No need to "believe" in this project. It's real and growing fast. BCH is the Bitcoin for payments. Try it? There are several awesome wallets.

                                                                  That BCH, big blocks, and bitcoin-as-Money is attacked constantly by CT and Blockstream "experts" was what drew me to it in the first place. I was like, "What are they afraid of?". Turns out BCH has several different implementations and a very active dev community.

                                                                  Most importantly, BCH works as intended RIGHT NOW...No "partnerships" needed.

                                                                  New awesome projects like privacy tool CashShuffle.com are just icing on the cake.

                                                                  [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                                  I play a lot of poker on https://blockchain.poker

                                                                  That's my favorite use case right now. Real cash games. You send BCH to your table and start playing straight away, you are done and you withdraw back to your wallet.

                                                                  [–]Lum_FaoTin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                                                                  I have more and more sympathy for BCH with every day they are getting bashed. It is a legit project and has it's value as fast and cheap version for daily payments besides the very secure store of value BTC.

                                                                  [–]oinklittlepiggyTin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                  It's literally better in every way except hashrate...

                                                                  [–]tuckeee0 / 0 🦠 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                  it is most definitely not a scam, most people are stupid and too easily influenced.

                                                                  [–]WippleDippleDoo 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                  " I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam. "

                                                                  Blockstream and Core, otherwise known as the "Cult of Core" was desperate to seed this lie about BitcoinCash.

                                                                  /r/Bitcoin and bitcoincointalk.org are heavily censored and manipulated forums. Avoid using them.

                                                                  [–]RisedGamer 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                                                                  The only time when something is a scam when it dumps, when it pumps then it's a legit project, that's the rule of crypto. Somehow I didn't find any defenders when it was in the $100 and now all of sudden everyone defends it. KEK.

                                                                  [–]phillipsjkPlatinum | QC: BCH 714 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                  That sounds like a problem with the forums you frequent, not the coins themselves.

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                                                                    [–]500239Bitcoin Cash 7 points8 points  (11 children)

                                                                    wow I'm pleasantly surprised. /u/TheRedBaron11 tries to sow FUD on BCH and /r/CryptoCurrency shuts his idiocy down.

                                                                    Usually I have to do damage control for BCH FUD, but not today. Looks like sentiments are changing now that people have had time to see BTC+SegWit+LN problems and time to research.

                                                                    Not to mention OP can't even name what the 'scam' is, which is why he uses such weasel words like 'scammy'.

                                                                    [–]TheRedBaron11[S] 7 points8 points  (5 children)

                                                                    Again, not trying to fud what could be a legitimate project. Stating my understanding as it was before this thread is not fud or "weaselly" just because my understanding was that it was a scam.

                                                                    My understanding very well may have been shallow but that doesn't make my post invalid. Genuine curiosity about the opinions of others =/= FUD

                                                                    [–]500239Bitcoin Cash 9 points10 points  (3 children)

                                                                    Again, not trying to fud what could be a legitimate project. Stating my understanding as it was before this thread is not fud or "weaselly" just because my understanding was that it was a scam.

                                                                    you did not state your understanding just your claim that it's 'scammy'.

                                                                    Scammy is telling people SegWit will relieve fees immediately and LN is only 18 months away.... 4.5 years later. Frankly I'm surprised Blockstream hasn't left the scene yet.. Oh wait Greg Maxwell CTO from Blockstream already has. And Adam Back keeps calling Bitcoin Cash 'beeecash'.

                                                                    Have you ever heard the good side ever slander the bad side or just focus on your work? Do you hear Vitalik shaming Ethereum Classic or focusing on Ethereum?

                                                                    [–]LovelyDayPlatinum | QC: BCH 7792, BTC 205, CC 60 | r/Technology 60 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                                    Oh wait Greg Maxwell CTO from Blockstream already has

                                                                    No he hasn't. He just posted in /r/btc the other day.

                                                                    [–]500239Bitcoin Cash 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                                    well yes, his love of sowing discord goes all the way back to his wikipedia days when he was caught and banned for sockpuppeting and vandalized.

                                                                    However officially he's no longer part of Blockstream, even if he holds shares or sows discord unofficially.

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                                                                          [–]Hanspanzer0 / 0 🦠 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                                                                          the more it's trash, the more it pumps. Just look at EOS. For real?

                                                                          [–]Eirenarch0 / 0 🦠 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                                          Did we well establish around the Internet that EOS is scam too?

                                                                          [–]zaparans 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Bitcoin cash isn’t real a scam as much as it is a crappy off brand

                                                                          [–]GiorgzGold | QC: BTC 21 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Because pump and dump

                                                                          [–]Lobster_Messiah 7 points8 points  (20 children)

                                                                          I’m no expert, so forgive and list any inaccuracies below.

                                                                          Bitcoin cash was a bitcoin hard fork with increased block size. Bitcoin was split in two because bitcoin’s network, at some points, can be slow and the transaction fees can be high. Some people felt that if bitcoin was ever going to be used as a form of digital money, it needed to be faster and cheaper. BCH was created with these ideas in mind. Some even consider BCH the actual “real” bitcoin, and bitcoin as it is now is the actual fork.

                                                                          This brings me to the “scam” part of BCH. Because BCH has the word “bitcoin” in it, people argue its leeching off of bitcoin’s fame and/or tricking new people to cryptocurrency into buying BCH thinking that they’ve just bought bitcoin.

                                                                          If that’s the scam you’re talking about, I have personally have no problem with BCH name. All the people were under the bitcoin banner until the fork. As I stated before, BCH actually argues that they are the original bitcoin, and that bitcoin is the hard fork.

                                                                          As far as newbies wading into the cryptocurrency network and buying BCH and thinking its bitcoin...welcome to the cryptocurrency market and do your homework.

                                                                          As far as why it’s surging, probably because it was down over 95% from it’s all time high. When bitcoin surges, all other coins do as well.

                                                                          [–]LovelyDayPlatinum | QC: BCH 7792, BTC 205, CC 60 | r/Technology 60 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                                                          As I stated before, BCH actually argues that they are the original bitcoin, and that bitcoin is the hard fork.

                                                                          Most of them argue that both are forks. Bitcoin (BTC) has hard- and soft-forked many times, just not controversially.

                                                                          Segwit was a controversial soft-fork that prompted a controversial hard-fork in return.

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                                                                            [–]ConalRCrypto God | QC: BCH 150 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                                                                            How is it a scam?

                                                                            [–]almondbutter0 / 0 🦠 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                                            Let's face it, the only people mad about Bitcoin cash didn't receive any from the fork. That is no reason to be jealous and pissed off about it. So fucking immature. It was free money and I sold all mine off, yet how could anyone be mad about it unless they are just being babies because they didn't receive any.

                                                                            [–]VollyMcRollyBronze | QC: CC critic 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                                                            BCH aint no scam, just a fork of the original "BTC". So short said, a better version. :)

                                                                            [–]zaparans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                            A faster version but competing with a billion other coins that built themselves for speed so it’s like an orphan without a real market or solution. They found a niche that doesn’t exist.

                                                                            [–]santoterracomputingBronze | QC: BTC 27 3 points4 points  (6 children)

                                                                            I dont support BCH simply because of Roger Ver’s whinny voice. Sorry Roger no disrespect intended. I have 30 yrs of marketing experience, this is why major brands use and hire voice talent. There is no shame in running BCH behind closed doors in board room. It would be best to keep Roger away from the camera and microphone. I am agnostic to any coin, I am investing in SHA256 ASICs and infrastructure to host and colo blockchain POW projects. So my clients are mining BTC, LTC, BCH or whatever. I also support Nicehash marketplace that sells hash power to the highest bidder. Peace out everyone, we are all on the same team!

                                                                            [–]oinklittlepiggyTin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                                                                            BCH isn't a company.

                                                                            [–]santoterracomputingBronze | QC: BTC 27 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                                            Semantics..., corp, s-corp, llc, organization, consortium, group, individual, github team, whatever... same principles apply

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                                                                              [–]enutrof75Platinum | QC: LTC 608, CC 39 | TraderSubs 570 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                                              Of course it's a scam. The only debate is whether it will survive the halving next year: current block rewards are a laughingly-small $3300. The income from fees in a block is a hillarious $5. Compare that to btc (block reward is $62,000 and fee income is $4500) and you can see it's currently unsustainable. What happens then when the block reward gets cut in half? Less than a couple of grand ($1500) for a multi-billion dollar network that's "p2p money for the whole world"? Really? Lol.

                                                                              [–]UpDown0 / 0 🦠 5 points6 points  (8 children)

                                                                              I don't think BCH is a scam at all. If it had the majority hash rate at the fork it would just simply be BTC. A subset of the community broke off to have the features and users that they aligned with most. This is a natural thing and will not stop with BCH. Altcoins are essentially the same premise. Maximalism is dumb because people have different opinions (which is why markets can even exist).

                                                                              With that said, BCH will ultimately suffer the same problems as BTC because of capped emission and too much transparency. I wish more people would adopt and start building/using monero instead.

                                                                              [–]rawb0tCrypto God | QC: BCH 331, CC 88 10 points11 points  (7 children)

                                                                              too much transparency

                                                                              you might like this: https://cashshuffle.com

                                                                              [–]blockparty_shPlatinum | QC: BCH 78 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                                                                              This is what Bitcoin Cash has achieved:

                                                                              All of this while fighting a gigantic troll army and battling mass censorship and attempted takeover... it has proven resilient and has an amazing community. There is no other coin which comes close for bringing economic freedom to the world.

                                                                              [–]trancephorm 4 points5 points  (3 children)

                                                                              I thought it was pretty well established across the internet that Bitcoin Cash was a major scam.

                                                                              That's what they want you to believe. It's not a scam at all, as a matter of fact Bitcoin is scam because it's hijacked by Deep State, ok?

                                                                              [–]BluePilledPsychicBronze | 2 months old 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                                                                              Oh look another BCH pump n dump. Do I have to pull up the chart again. Its not we haven't seen this how many times in 2018. Looks who's all out in force today...

                                                                              [–]NaabKingGold | QC: BTC 91, ETH 72 | MiningSubs 39 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                                                              Jihan and Roger have a lot BCH and their bots do the trading, so they have to move a lot of BTC->BCH and reverse to liquidate loss when crypto goes up/down. We all know it's a scam tho.

                                                                              [–]lucasmcducasTin | BCH critic 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                                                                              Bitcoin cash is not a scam, in fact its technicals are brighter than ever. Their lead dev is a very smart man

                                                                              [–]EnXigmaGold | QC: BTC 18 | r/AMD 16 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                                                                              Who’s the lead developer?

                                                                              [–]btchodler4eva 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                                              The guy that copies Pieter Wuille's Schnorr code and claims as his own. The fact that a decentralized crypto has a lead developer should make you scratch your head.

                                                                              ​

                                                                              ​

                                                                              [–]jakesonwuGold | QC: BTC 241, CC 32 | BCH critic | r/pcgaming 18 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                              Or maybe it is the guy that copied Bech32 because he was too lazy to make his own address format or the guy that copied the lightning Neutrino wallet and claimed he created a new revolutionary SPV for 0-conf or the guy that just scrapes 99% of BIPs then spends hours and hours renaming parameters to pad up his stats and make it look like he is developing something, you're talking about people that can't do a simple 10 line test code base so they steal it from Jimmy Song and then in the next breath slag Jimmy Song. https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/commit/72d69ae906829d73466080c0a1a80783ca74da37

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                                                                                [–]cinnapear59K / 59K 🦈 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                                                                                It's not a scam. It's a difference of opinion on block sizes. Most oldtime Bitcoiners (and some newer) wanted to increase the block size, while most newer Bitcoiners (and some older) wanted to focus on second layer options.

                                                                                That's open source software for you. Someone forks a repo and adds a feature they like. Doesn't make it a scam. That's how open source is intended to work.

                                                                                [–]WhiskeyVictor12 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                                Scam numeral uno

                                                                                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                                There's barely any real volume in Bitcoin, do you honestly think there's any in Bitcoin Cash? Plenty of dudes out there able to pump and dump that shit

                                                                                [–]TyMyShoesPlatinum | QC: BCH 88 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                                                                Can you tell me why you "know" it's scammy? In what way(s) is it a "major scam"?

                                                                                [–]inb4_bannedGold | QC: BTC 25 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                                when bitcoin pumps, shitcoins pump too

                                                                                business as usual

                                                                                [–]Eastlondonmanwithava7 - 8 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma. 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                                                                                the title of this post makes me feel physically ill. fuck reddit.

                                                                                [–]jgbc83Bronze 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                                If electronic cash that actually works with low fees and fast transactions with little to no waiting time, just like BTC was before it was intentionally broken, is what you consider a scam... then yes, it’s a massive scam.

                                                                                [–]cipher_gnome2K / 2K 🐢 5 points6 points  (15 children)

                                                                                You've clearly been brain washed. Can you explain how this "scam" works?

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