I am NOT OOP. OOP is

Originally posted to + their own page

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NEW UPDATE MARKED WITH ----

[New Update]: AITA for telling my wife that I’m tired of raising a kid that is not mine + 1 year UPDATE

Trigger Warnings: possible domestic violence, possible financial abuse, possible divorce

RECAP

- May 19, 2023

I (31m) am married to my wife Amber (30f) we have a daughter Emma(7f) the problem is my wife’s best friend Jennifer (30f) has a daughter as well Harper (7f) well Harpers dad is a lazy sack of crap and refuses to do anything with his daughter. He is the type of guy that brags about how he never changed a diaper.

Jennifer and Harper are usually at Amber and my house on the weekends because Harper’s dad is drinking and watching sports all weekend. On Saturdays I normally sped all day with my daughter because I don’t see her as much as i want to during the week. However with Harper being there every Saturday anything I do with Emma I have to do with Harper. Take Emma to the zoo it’s Emma, Harper and I. Taught them both how to ride bikes, takes them both to dance class, take them both to the kids salon, and so on.

Mother’s Day was the last draw, I took them both to dance class Saturday morning ( Amber and I also pay for both dance classes because dead beet won’t) on the way home Emma asked if we could stop to get something for mom for Mother’s Day, I said sure but then it ended up I had to buy something for Harper to her her mom as well. On the way home I just kept thinking why am I buying someone else’s wife a Mother’s Day gift, that’s his job.

A few days later (because I did not want to ruin Mother’s Day) I told my wife that I am tired of raising Harper, her real father needs to step up. I tired of it taking away time I get to spend with Emma. She said that Jennifer is her best friend and we need to be there for Harper.

Now she is not speaking to me and sleeping in the guest bedroom. So AITA?

Just wanted to add some updates to questions I see.

Emma and Harper are best friends.

It was my idea to spend Saturday with Emma, I work more during the week so I wanted to spend Saturday with Emma and to give my wife a bit of a break.

We pay for things be Jennifer’s husband thinks it’s a waste on money to pay for dance class and Jennifer can’t afford to pay by herself.

Jennifer and Harper do things with Amber and Emma 1 or 2 times a week together during the weeknights.

VERDICT: NOT THE ASSHOLE

Comments

where’s Harper’s mom in all this?

OOP: Just hanging out at our place, Harper started to come along because I thought it would be mean to take her friend and not her. At the start it was not all the time like it is now

So your wife probably enjoys hanging out childfree with her friend every weekend. If your wife doesn’t agree to friend free days maybe the moms should start needing to attend the outings too? I don’t understand why Harpers mom isn’t at least driving kids to dance since you pay it etc?

OOP: Our house is on the way to Dance, so she comes here first. I also like going to Dance, it’s kind of fun being the only dad there, and after class we have our routine of going to the local bakery and getting a croissant and smoothie for breakfast.

are the gift and things you spend on her getting paid back to you?

OOP: The short answer is no, the longer version is Amber and I make a decent amount more money than Jennifer and her husband and her husband dose not like to waste his money on the kid. Jennifer can not afford to pay us back, So any money I spend on her kid I know we are not getting back.

7 years in, you've set the expectation and Harper is NOT going to understand your withdrawing. So hmm.... for taking 7 years to decide this was an issue.

OOP: I see what your saying, but it’s gradually gotten to this point over 7 years. Part of it is she is here more now than when she was younger, part of it is as Emma has gotten older we do more involved things, when they were three we just went to the playground down the street now it’s trips to the science center.

you should definitely have a talk with this sorry excuse of a father, if anything just to tell him what you think of him

OOP: I would but he is not the civil discourse type of guy, but more of the Alpha male beat you up type of person

Why do you pay for her dance classes? Why can’t either of Harper’s parents do it?

OOP: I pay for the classes because Emma wanted Harper in class with her. Harpers father is they type of who is my money is my money and Jennifer’s money is their money and he does not want to waste money on classes.

- June 2, 2023 (2 weeks later)

So quite a few people has asked for an update on this situation, sorry it’s taken so long but it’s been a hectic few weeks.

As for the updates the Amber and I are fine. Her reaction was based on poor word choices by me, poor communication by both of us, and some things I was unaware of at the time.

The short version is:

Things at home were much worse than I was aware of for Jennifer, and my wife had only recently found out how bad things were.

Mother’s Day was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Jennifer as well, she was raised in a you must stay together for the kids family, when Harper came to me for a gift she realized that her daughter did not see her sperm donor as a father so it was time to get out.

Jennifer came to my wife to ask for help leaving because she had no family in the area and Jennifer does not have the financial resources to leave on her own.

So the night my wife was going to ask me if we could help her is when I told her I was tired of raising someone else’s kid. That’s what caused her reaction.

The Saturday after out initial argument Jennifer did not come over and Emma went to her grandparents, so the wife and I had a long discussion about what was going on, that’s when I found out all the stuff going on with Jennifer.

The wife and I decided the Jennifer and Harper can stay with us for the time being. My problem was never with those 2 it was that I had to take over for the deadbeat ( or dead beet if you prefer).

When we told Emma about this she was super happy her friend was staying with her. We had a conversation with her that if she wants to have time with either parent with out Harper just let us know, and we do not want her to feel left out of anything.

Last weekend with the help of a Uhaul and some friends of mine we got all of Jennifer’s and Harper’s stuff and moved it into our house. The good thing is we have a 4 bedroom house so everyone gets a bedroom, the bad news is my wife’s office got moved to the basement.

Wish me luck we shall see how this goes.

----NEW UPDATE----

- May 12, 2024 (11 months later)

So it’s been almost a year since my last update but with Mother’s Day upon us I thought I would post an update and try to answer the questions I’ve gotten.

Jenn and Harper are still living with us. As I mentioned before Jenn did not make that much money, she worked as a phlebotomist for our local health network. The good news is with the current nursing shortage they have a program where they will pay for employees to go to nursing school. She was able to start that in the end of August. The bad news is it’s an 18 month program and they only let you work 20hrs a week while you are in the program. So the arrangement is one she graduates she will move out then. That should be next May.

The Divorce with Dead Beet is still ongoing. Once he found out he was going to have to pay child support he tried every dirty nasty trick he could think of. No idea when that will be finished.

My wife is doing good, she happy she is helping her best friend, but 5 people in a house is a lot more work than 3. Since she works from home the pre and post school work falls on her.

Emma and Harper are still best friends. Shockingly Harper is doing much better in this environment than before. They don’t do everything together anymore. Harper quit dance class, but she started with soccer. I think knowing that she will get fatherly attention no matter what she is doing has given her some freedom to pursue other interest. Harper has turned into my Lego buddy. Emma never had any interest but Harper and I have done some nice sets together.

Emma and I still have our daddy daughter dates on the weekend, I still take her to dance class, and she started to take fencing classes. I don’t know if I should be proud or scared that she could defeat me in a sword fight.

I think I am doing better a year later. That there is a plan with a timetable for Jenn and Harper has relived a lot of stress from my life. That I also don’t have to see Dead Beet has also been a relief. I also try to take a few hours a month for me time and to do my hobbies. The bad part is I had thought that I was done with the portion of my life where I had roommates. It will also be nice when Jenn either gets her nursing job and/or gets child support so that Amber and I can stop footing the bill for so much.

For all the people that said Jenn was going to become our sister wife, or that I was going cheat of my wife with her, or that she was going to ruin my marriage out of spite, or any of the weird sexual fantasies some of you people had absolutely nothing has happened.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am STILL NOT the Original Poster. That is still . She posted in and .

You can read the previous BORU's and . New Update marked with ***** Thanks to and for letting me know!

Trigger Warning: brief mention of murder

Mood Spoiler: happy ending

Original : April 16, 2023

Throwaway because I have in-laws on Reddit.

Myself (25F) and my fiancé (27M) have a 2 month old son. We are overjoyed at being parents, but most of my in-laws are refusing to even see our baby because of a decision we made concerning his name.

My in-laws have a tradition of giving the first-born son of every generation the same name. Let's say it's "Peter". This has been going on for about seven generations already, and they're very serious about it. My fiancé's eldest cousin was the latest person to get named Peter. Every one of his cousins has only had daughters so far, so our baby is the first son of his generation, and consequently should get the name.

I have no problem with the name Peter, and would've been okay with naming my son that. Unfortunately, that was also the name of my uncle, who died before I was born. I won't get into details, but it was tragic and traumatizing for my family. My father never got over losing his younger brother.

My grandmother asked the family not to name any of our future children Peter during her lifetime. My MIL and FIL knew about this promise, and at first seemed to not only be okay with us avoiding the name Peter, but also supportive of the one we chose.

However, my grandmother sadly passed away when I was 7 months pregnant. We traveled for her funeral. On our last days there, my in-laws called to offer me their condolences. Then my MIL asked me if I was willing to "think about the name Peter now."

Suddenly, they were insistent that the name we chose was awful and we had to honor their tradition. According to them, they had only agreed to make an exception for us for my grandmother's sake, and had no obligation to keep it now that she had passed.

My family agrees that while it's true we don't have to avoid the name anymore, it still doesn't feel right to use it. My fiancé agrees with me as well, but his parents spent the last weeks of my pregnancy trying to convince us to change our minds about the name.

When our baby was born and we named him what we wanted, my in-laws were furious that we had broken a 7-generation-old family tradition. Some of them hadn't previously wanted to name their sons Peter, but did it anyway for the family's sake. They said our decision was selfish, and that my family "should have moved on by now."

This has truly nothing to do with whether my family has moved on or not, it just felt like a betrayal to my grandmother and uncle's memories to even consider using the name.

My FIL offered us $1000 to change our son's name to Peter after he was born. That was two months ago, and neither of my fiancé's parents have met the baby or seen us since I was pregnant. Most of my in-laws are on their side, and this is causing a huge rift between my fiancé and his family. He assures me he's fine, but I'm starting to feel really guilty about this.

AITA?

EDIT: The tradition started, as far as I know, when OG Peter died and his son, also named Peter, named his firstborn after his father. Peter III ended up having the first son of the following generation, and did the same thing. That one died before having children, so his sister gave the name to her son, and so on. The name “Peter” is very common in my country, so none of them ever got bullied over it, and the fact that it was also my uncle’s name isn’t as unlikely as one might think.

Also, middle names aren’t used in my country. Most people get the maternal surname before the paternal one instead.

EDIT 2: It wasn't 1000 dollars. Different country, different currency. It's still a lot of money, but would probably translate to about 200 USD.

Relevant Comments:

Can you use Peter as a middle name?"

Our country/culture doesn't generally use middle names. If we did, I'd be willing to think about that, even though my son's name doesn't match "Peter"."

How many Peters are alive right now in your family???"

There are 3 living "Peters" in the family right now. Only the eldest (my fiancé's great uncle) actually goes by Peter. The other two have nicknames ("Pete", "Petey", etc)."

OOP is voted NTA

Update : May 24, 2023 (a bit over 1 month later)

(OOP's post was removed from AITA, and reposted on her profile. I'm using the date of the AITA post. Comments are also from AITA)

I posted this on AITA, but it got removed about an hour ago because I mentioned a violent encounter on an edit. I tried editing it out and getting it back up, but it didn't work. I'm posting here in case anyone still wants to read it.

Original

Thank you so much to everyone who commented and offered support. A lot has happened since I posted, so I thought I'd give you an update.

About a week after my post, my fiancé's parents contacted us. They apologized for their behavior, and begged to meet my son. They said they were ready to leave the naming debacle behind and truly wanted to be involved in their grandson's life.

We were skeptical, but invited them over to meet the baby. The visit went well. They began coming over almost every day during the next three weeks. I noticed neither of them ever called my son by his name, but I didn't point it out. For the first time in months, things seemed good between my fiancé and his parents.

One day, my fiancé was helping my FIL with something at our place, so my MIL and I went to the park with my baby. Some time later, I had to go to the bathroom, so I left him in the stroller with her.

When I got back, she was sitting on a park bench, chatting with a woman who was cooing over my son. I went over there and introduced myself as "(son's name)'s mom", and she said, "I thought his name was Peter."

I didn't say a word, and neither did my MIL. She followed me to the car and we went back to my apartment. On the way there, I texted my fiancé about what had happened. The moment we got there, he kicked both his parents out of our place.

He'd read my texts and confronted his father. Thankfully, my FIL is a terrible liar, and confessed immediately. Apparently, both my in-laws ONLY call my son Peter. That includes whenever they're talking about him, every time they introduce him to someone else, and even baby-talking to him on the few occasions they were left alone with him. Neither of them are embarrassed by this, and they both think they're in the right.

We're heartbroken. Especially my fiancé. Not only because his parents can't let go of their pride, but also because the name we chose for our son means a lot to us both.

I blame myself for encouraging my fiancé to allow them near our son. I was raised in a different city than all my grandparents, and always wished they could have been more involved in my life. Losing my grandmother didn't help. Pretty much every doubt I had only existed because I thought it would be important for my son to grow up with all of his grandparents around.

But now, all my guilt is gone. If they can't respect my son enough to call him by his name, they don't deserve to be in his life.

I hope they enjoyed the three weeks they had with their grandson. Because that's all they're getting until they get their heads out of their asses.

EDIT: I thought I'd clarify some things. First of all, I'm not comfortable sharing my son's name here, but I promise it's not a "yooneek" name or anything like that. It's perfectly normal and popular-ish in our country.

Secondly, I mentioned this in the comments, but while my family didn't try to dictate me on my son's name, they would never be comfortable with it. My uncle Peter passed almost three decades ago, but it forever changed everyone who knew him. My grandmother's wish might seem a bit irrational, but it was motivated entirely by grief and it didn't seem right to disrespect that just because she's not around anymore.

And to whoever PM'd me that my fiancé's only on my side to keep the peace, he didn't want to use the name either. Months before I got pregnant, he told me he hoped one of his cousins would have a son before we did, because he always hated the tradition and sympathized with my family. He's just as angry at his parents as I am, if not more. Also, most of his cousins and some other relatives have come around and apologized.

Relevant Comments:

Are they this unhinged in other areas of your life too?"

According to my fiancé, they've always been a little entitled, but I never really saw them enough to be able to say that. I will say that, though they were polite, they very clearly didn't care about me until we moved in together. My MIL pretended not to remember my name every time she saw me, and my FIL would lose interest in any conversations that weren't about him. Once it was clear me and my fiancé were in for long term, they started acting a lot more friendly towards me, but it never seemed sincere."

Have other family members come around yet?"

Most of my fiancé's cousins have come around, and his brother was always on our side. His grandmother and some of his aunts and uncles are with us too. His grandfather (divorced from his grandmother), two out of three living Peters (the two oldest) and pretty much everyone else are either still mad at us or haven't reached out to talk about it yet.

My entire family is on my side. They promised not to interfere in the naming process, but are relieved we didn't name him Peter."

One more note on the $1000 offered in the first post:

"And that's $1000 in MY country's currency. It roughly translates to $200USD." (note- OOP clarifies in a comment that she is Brazilian)

OOP drops this horrible bombshell about her uncle, the one who died before she was born:

"My uncle was murdered. My grandmother's request was motivated by trauma."

"Again; my family would be mostly fine with naming my son Peter. My dad and my aunt might have been uncomfortable, and my grandmother asked us all not to do so, but I wouldn't have been disowned if I had. It simply felt disrespectful, especially since my grandmother passed shortly before my son was born.

My uncle's death was traumatic for my family, but the name Peter is hugely common in my country."

Update 2: July 28, 2023 (3 months from first post)

My son is now 5 months old (almost six!). We're still NC with my fiancé's parents, who haven't seen us since May. We've both blocked them everywhere. His relatives who were on our side still are, and most of the ones who weren't haven't come around. If anything, they're even more pissed now.

I remember someone suggesting that my fiancé's family might stop using the name after we decided not to. Well, you were right. Last week, one of my fiancé's cousins announced she was pregnant with a boy. She included her baby's name in the announcement, and it's not Peter.

What followed was a string of aggressive Instagram DMs from both MIL and FIL. They both created accounts for the sole purpose of contacting me. I didn't see them until two days later. They sent me almost an hour worth of voice messages about how I'd "ruined their family".

They wish their son had never met me, that he'd see me for "who I truly am", and that I'd never gotten pregnant. Many of the messages ended with "I hope you're happy now", as if they thought they were getting the last word, only to think of something else they wanted to say. There was name calling, an accusation of me cheating, and the persistent refusal to refer to my son as their grandchild.

My fiancé and I listened to the messages together. He hadn't gotten any. As much as I tried to distance myself, I was in tears by the time it was all done. I still don't regret anything, specially after the stunt they pulled back in May, but I'm not completely free of the guilt yet. Not to mention their complete disregard for their grandson. I was already having an overwhelming week, and this just seemed like the final straw.

I must have spent close to an hour sobbing in my fiancé's arms. Once I was calmer, he unblocked his parents just to scream at them for a while. I only heard his side of the conversation, but it was more than enough. He finished the call by saying he didn't want to hear from them again.

We had a long talk afterwards. My fiancé opened up about the emotional blackmail by his family before and after my pregnancy. My in-laws were close to threatening him with anything they could if we didn't name our son Peter. I told him about my guilt, and how awful I feel for putting him through this. We reassured each other, cried a bit more, and had a mostly pleasant evening with our baby.

We contacted his cousin. The family is giving her shit for breaking the tradition again. They're being way less aggressive though, and I think many of my in-laws are finally learning to let go. We're not expecting any apologies anytime soon, but we'll be glad if they come.

Our wedding will be in September 2024, and whoever doesn't give us a sincere apology until then is uninvited. My fiancé's parents are banned either way. We came to that decision together.

Also, I'd like to address some comments on my previous update about how I was "letting my family's trauma win", or how the name wouldn't be hurtful now that my grandmother has passed.

I can't stress enough the damage my uncle's death caused. He was only 30 years old. He had a fiancée, a great career and his whole life ahead of him. I don't know many details about what happened, because I didn't want to upset my family by asking. My grandmother wasn't the only person hurt by this, my entire paternal family was. And if I remember correctly, the person responsible isn't even in jail anymore. It was more than 20 years ago, but the wound never truly closed.

So yeah, I think it's safe to say the tradition is over. The next Not-Peter will be here in January, right before my son's first birthday. It was never my intention for this to turn into such a shitstorm, but I'm so incredibly proud of my little family.

Thank you so much to everyone who shared their stories and offered advice during these last few months. I'll be forever grateful for all the support I got from y'all.

*****New Update : May 13, 2024 (13 months from OG post, about 10 from last post)*****

Hey everyone, it's been a while. I hope you guys had a great Mother's Day!

I remember that last year, I promised myself I'd write a final update as soon as I felt calmer or felt the situation was closer to being solved. That actually happened months ago, but I've been busy lately.

Following my previous update, my fiancé's side of the family remained upset about the tradition being over for a few more months. They were way less intense about it, specially with the pregnant cousin I mentioned, but it was still evident.

That cousin's Not-Peter (almost a year later, I still can't think of a better term) was born in January. Our son turned one the next month. I think the fact that these two things happened so close together helped many of my in-laws let go of the tradition.

We got a few apologies we weren't expecting. Some of them were sincere enough that we slowly started reestablishing contact.

My fiancé's parents were not among those who apologized. We haven't spoken to either of them since last July. From what I've heard from some of his other relatives, however, MIL seems regretful. She has told some of them that she wishes she could be part of her grandson's life, and wonders if making his name a hill to die on was a bad decision. FIL, from what I gather, barely acknowledges my baby exists.

My fiancé knows about how his mother feels, but he says he doesn't care. And even if we did get an apology, I don't think either of us can forgive his parents. As much as we're mostly okay now, it sometimes feels like their treatment of our family ruined the first few months of our baby's life. I know that's not actually true, but I don't want them around my child.

Besides all that, things have been great. My son is 15 months old now, which I don't think I'll ever really get used to. He recently started drawing and has been expanding his vocabulary. He said "mamãe" first, by the way.

My fiancé and I are still getting married in September. We're thinking about moving abroad in a couple years (for work reasons), but we're not sure yet. We also recently got a dog (sadly, we didn't name him Peter).

This will be my final update. Whatever guilt I had about this situation a year ago is completely gone, and my life has been peaceful enough that it feels safe to say the shitshow is over.

Hugo, if you ever find this, you are the most fantastic thing that has ever happened to us. Thank you for letting me be your mom.

Thank you, Reddit, for all the love, advice and support you've given me this past year.

Relevant Comment:

Commenter: Whilst this may be your final update on the naming sage, you said you are getting married in September 2024 and MiL&FiL aren't going to be invited.

Prepare for more craziness from them at that time and good luck :)

OOP: I really do think this is over. My fiancé's parents don't know when or where we're getting married, so I'm not worried about them showing up. They haven't reached out to us in months, and we have no interest in contacting them.

Commenter: Should have named the dog Peter, and giggled every time you called it.

OOP: If it wasn't also my late uncle's name, I'd definitely consider it hahaha

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in and posting in

Ongoing as per OOP

1 update - Medium

- 18th May 2024

- 19th May 2024

AITA for not letting my fiancée’s best friend be in our wedding?

I (26M) proposed to my (24F) girlfriend of 6 years last month. She obviously said yes and we’ve been working on wedding details (ex: save the dates/invitations, venue, caterer…etc) since. We got to talking about who we would want in our wedding because she wanted to do a special “proposal” to her side of the wedding court, and she said she wanted to have her best friend since childhood be her “maid” of honor.

The thing is, her childhood best friend is a guy (24M). They lived on the same street when they were kids and have been friends since. My fiancée and I met in college and her friend was there too, so I’ve known him for as long as I’ve known her. At first I didn’t really like him because he was always hanging around her, but after she and I started dating and I was forced to be around him more I kinda started to tolerate him.

He and my fiancée saw each other a lot, but he and I have never really hung out one-on-one before. One time when we were left alone together he tried to get all tough and did the “if you ever break her heart i swear…” corny threat talk. He’s a small dude so it made me laugh more than intimidate me. After that I got the feeling this was a situation where he liked her but she didn’t know.

I asked my fiancée if she and him ever had feelings for each other, and she said no, then let me know he was gay. I’m not homophobic or anything, so it’s not like I don’t want him in the wedding because of that, it’s just that I think it would be better if her side of t party was all girls. She and him already did everything together, not including him in our wedding wouldn’t hurt their friendship.

I told her that and she got defensive, saying that if I could have a girl in my side of the party (the girl being my older sister who practically raised me), she could have a guy. I said that it was a different circumstance, and that I wouldn’t allow her best friend to be her man of honor. She got really mad and said it was her wedding too, then stormed out. I got a text from her sister a few hours later saying she had gone to her parents house and told them what I had said.

They thought I was being an asshole because I never liked her friend and am threatened by him. I have tried to talk to my fiancée since she left but she hasn’t returned my calls or texts. I really love her, and I don’t want to loose her. I just dont want her best friend to be a part of our day. AITA?

edit: It’s come to my attention in a previous comment I made, I have created the worlds thinnest argument. I said that my fiancée made was unwillingly to compromise on things such as the groomsmen’s neck pieces and blazers, and as such I was in the right to be unwilling to compromise about her best friend. I stated in a few other posts that there were other things she didn’t want to compromise on, and someone suggested I make a list so here it is:

1.) When we were deciding our wedding date and location, she wanted to do it in spring in an open field. I wasn’t onboard with this as I have terrible allergies and spring is when it’s at its worst. She shot down any alternative I gave her (alternatives being things done closer to summer or in summer) and said it was Spring or nothing. So we went with spring

2.) Instead of going with a DJ like I suggestion who could play a mix of her favorite, my favorite, and general upbeat dance music, she said that she really wanted a live band that specialized in her favorite genre. I asked if we could just give the DJ a longer list of her songs in her favorite genre and tell him to pick from the list often, but she said no and that a live band was going to be better. So we went with the band

3.) In my culture there is a few traditional wedding ceremonies that I wanted us to partake in. Some included a kind of “parade” that leads the groom and his family to the brides house where they present her and her family gifts, a hair cutting ceremony (I made sure to tell her her actual hair would NOT be cut), and finally a knot tying ceremony where the guests wish us a long happy marriage. She wanted absolutely nothing to do with these ceremonies, and said they would be too much time and effort, since it would be like having two weddings. I tried fighting for these more than the others, but she was firm on doing things traditionally.

4.) She wanted the groomsmen to wear bow ties and blazers even though I wanted the necktie and no blazer look

5.) She changed the color scheme from the originally agreed upon black, gold, maroon, and forest green to pink (or i think it was rose), yellow, white, and pastel blue because the decorations would look better in the field. When I said we already printed invitations with the previous colors on them, she said we could throw those out and get reprints.

Comments

panic_bread

YTA. It’s obvious that you have a huge chip on your shoulder about your fiancé’s best friend just because he’s a guy, so now you’re using this “girls only” thing to get him out of the way. Also, “girls?” You’re not in high school going to prom. You’re getting married. They’re women. You’re sexist and jealous and seem way too immature to be getting married. I hope she sees you for what you are and gets away from you.

OOP: The difference is I’d be having legitimate family in my party. Somebody who, like I said, has practically raised me and has been there for me since birth who I want by my side. I know you can argue that her and her best friend are “technically” family with how long they’ve known each other, but that doesn’t actually make them family

CheerilyTerrified

I really love her, and I don’t want to loose her. I just dont want her best friend to be a part of our day.

You only get to say that if her best friend as done something bad, like stole money from you, or took a shit in the middle of the floor at the engagement party. You are being unreasonable. You're only reason for not wanting him there is that's he's a guy and you are jealous. That's not a good enough reason, especially when you are having a woman in your wedding party.

You are going to lose her, because you want her to be unhappy and have someone she loves excluded from her wedding, for selfish reasons.

YTA

OOP: Why would I be jealous of him? I’m the one she came home to every night, and the one she agreed to marry. The woman I’m having in my party is my biological sister, someone who I share a natural deep bond with. It’s not like I said he can’t come to the wedding period

SongOfInsanity

I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt, but the more I read the more confident I became of my opinion. YTA. No matter how I read this, you come off as someone threatened by the fact that your fiancée has a close, life long friendship with a man who has never had romantic feelings for her, gay or not. Who, by your own admission, you don't even find physically threatening. So what is there to be threatened by?

Simple-Status-15

He gets worse with every response. Asshole

OOP: I’m not threatened by him

WelcomeToBrooklandia

Sure, Jan.

**Judgement - YTA**

Update (My wedding may be off) Fiancée posts- 1 days later

I (24F) was recently engaged to my (26M) fiancé after 6 years together. We got into a fight a couple of days ago because he wouldn’t let me ask my guy best friend (24M) who I’ve known since we were kids, be my man of honor. I ended up walking out and went to stay with my parents for a few days. I told them what happened and they agreed that he was way out of line.

I went back earlier today after I thought he had enough time to calm down and when I came home he looked glad to see me. He apologized for stepping out of line and I said it was fine and that we still had time to ask my best friend to be in the wedding. He kind of looked down then said that we should call everything off. This really surprised me and I immediately said no.

He then admitted that while I was gone he posted to about what had happened and that even though he was deemed the controlling AH, he also realized that I was one because I had basically hijacked the wedding planning. I asked how he could think that and he pointed out how I chose to have the wedding in spring even though that’s a bad time for him and that I changed up the wedding color scheme and what his groomsmen would be wearing without talking with him first.

I said that those were practically minor things and we didn’t have to call off the wedding for it. Then he said I was insensitive for rejecting his cultures traditional wedding ceremonies and didn’t even considering doing them. He had brought to my attention some traditional ceremonies people do at weddings in his culture, and while I appreciated him bringing it up to me, I decided against doing it because it wouldn’t fit the vibe of the traditional wedding I wanted.

I told him I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding and that he already agreed with me that that’s what we were doing. Then he said that me having my guy best friend be my best man was untraditional. I pointed out I let him have his sister be part of his wedding party because he wanted some part of his family included, and that since he was breaking the tradition so could I.

He got really sad and looked like he was about to cry and said that me breaking the tradition was like a slap in the face after I rejected his traditions, and that I just didn’t respect his culture at all. That is not the case at all I greatly respect his culture. I told him I understood how mean it sounded but it’s my wedding too so I get a say in what we do. He kind of laughed and got up and said he wanted to take a break and left.

I dont know what to do I don’t want to call off the wedding at all. I tried to find his reddit post but I think he was using a throw away, though granted I am too. I love him so much and I want to be with him for the rest of our lives. I don’t know how we’ll get through this.

Comments

Justthe7

sounds like you are controlling and you. brushed off his complaints as no big deal. If the date, groomsmen outfit and color scheme are minor details, than they shouldn’t have been changed. Disregarding his family traditions is a major detail and if you are willing to disregard them for a wedding, how does he know you won’t for other events? The wedding is one day, if you don’t let him have a say in that, he’s right to take a break and reconsider.

MysteriousPermit9989

I guess he thinks now that it’s his wedding too, so he should get a say in what they do… how delulu of him !

OOP(bride): I understand where you’re coming from. I’ll be honest and tell you that I haven’t celebrated a lot of his cultural events besides New Years (he’s Cambodian and they celebrate their New Years in April I believe). He and his family had a falling out after he started dating me (his family didn’t approve of a foreigner), and only recently have they reconnected. His sister though was different she didn’t care I was American, and she stuck by his side as his only family member.

I guess I disregarded the traditions in the first place because he never immersed me in his culture enough because he kind of cut ties with that side of himself. I was uncomfortable with the idea of being surrounded by his family that doesn’t particularly like me during the ceremonies, as both his parents and my parents would be involved. I didn’t want to feel like an outsider on our wedding day

30ninjazinmybag

He doesn't want to feel like an outsider at HIS wedding either. You're pretty selfish to disregard what he wants as it's his wedding too. You don't get to make all the decisions then say its minor, if it's so minor what's the problem with having them HIS way for HIS side of the wedding party. The wedding and marriage is for two people not just for the bride who has main character syndrome. Have YOU made the effort with his parents to know them etc. This could have been your chance to find out about his culture and family but you chose not too.

Is there such thing as a traditional American wedding when a white dress was made popular by Queen Victoria an English queen. You sound controlling and petty and now you get to live with the consequences of being demanding and brushing off his wants for the wedding.

ellaphantzgerald

When I first started reading this I was on your side and by the end, not at all. It seems to me like he tried to ‘veto’ your ideas the same way you vetoed his. Honest question, why should he compromise his TRADITIONAL values if you won’t compromise YOUR non-traditonal ones?

chicagok8

I think your ex is right. You haven’t considered his preferences and in fact you minimize his requests (calling them “practically minor”) and aren’t respecting his cultural traditions. It sounds like you’re more interested in a wedding than an actual relationship and marriage.

OOP: Of course I’m interested in the wedding. I’ve been dreaming of my own since I was a child. But I don’t value it more than I value my relationship with him. We didn’t get that far into the planning but for our honeymoon I was going to suggest going somewhere he and I have always talked about going to. We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted

just-a-bored-lurker

Babes, you literally chose your wedding over your fiancé. You broke up because of plans for the wedding. You broke up because you couldn't compromise anything you wanted for anything he wanted.

You chose the wedding over the marriage.

alwaystucknroll

I read his post yesterday and yours today... YOU BOTH SUCK. I think he wouldn't have put up the stink about your male best friend being in your party if you hadn't been so controlling, but that's moot because you're incredibly controlling and don't understand/care.

You are selfish and self-centered. You seem to think only your tastes and desires matter for your wedding, forgetting that your groom is a person and not just a prop at your wedding. The fact that you even say "let him include his sister" is grounds to break up with you in my opinion.

Neither of you are mature enough to marry from the little bit you have each written. In both of your posts you both sound fairly unpleasant to be around but you are definitely the harsher of the two. He's a whiner and you are Attila the Hun. Both of you need to grow up and learn what's actually important in life: how to grow together.

Don't get married, mature first.

**Judgement - YTA/ESH**

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I AM NOT OOP. OOP IS u/

Originally posted on

1 update - short

Content warning: gross skin stuff

TIFU by realizing I wasn’t washing my “hair” right for 20+ years

Uh okay. So warning.. this is very much gross.

Over the past several weeks I have been feeling these weird skin-like but not fully-attached lumps on my head. I’ve been scratching and picking them off fully (or so I thought) and didn’t give it a second thought.

Well, today my boyfriend takes a good look at my scalp in one of those spots that I was scratching because he was curious as to what I was doing. Apparently I was really going at it without noticing.

He practically gasped and asked me if I had hit my head, or if it hurt. I was stunned for a moment (it only felt like a little dry skin) and that began my panic induced examination. As it turns out, my entire scalp is covered in ranges of flaky to thick lumps of dandruff. And because I have a lot of hair, it isn’t noticeable on the outside unless you start going through layer by layer…

I obsessively begin to scratch and scrape my entire scalp to the point where it’s now in pain. There’s flakes and chunks entangled throughout my hair.. I am freaking out. I start Googling, thinking I must be dying, all my hair is about to fall out, etc.

Yeah.. no. Apparently you are supposed to scrub your scalp when you shampoo… I never knew this. Also I immediately put my wet hair in a bun or braid every time I washed it so it didn’t dry for literally 24 hours and caused more dry skin buildup. I really hope that after years (plus scraping for hours today) I haven’t really fucked my scalp up.

TL;DR : I haven’t scrubbed my scalp for 20 years because I didn’t know you had to. I have been scraping chunks of dry skin off my scalp for the past few hours. I feel disgusting.

EDIT: Firstly I’d like to say thank you to everyone for your advice and kind replies! I also wanted to answer a few of the common questions I saw.

1. “How did you not notice this for so long?” - I don’t think it was this bad my entire life, as I’ve said I’ve only seen flakes sometimes. It got like this sometime recently. I don’t particularly make note of checking my scalp on a periodic basis. Also if you haven’t already noticed by my username, I have ADHD. Out of sight out of mind. I don’t even intend to be gross… but like many others with ADHD we can struggle with habit, routines, etc.

2. “Why did you not just go to a doctor?” - I’m in America and healthcare costs are high. I can’t afford to go see one at this time even with insurance.

3. “Where did you put shampoo then?” - I put it on my head (obviously) and throughout all my hair. I think since my hair is so thick that when lathering the shampoo in, I may not have been really getting it onto my scalp enough. I’ve made note of the shampooing twice to help with that though, so thanks to those who said that!

4. “Did your parents not teach you ‘xyz’?” - Apparently not. Not everyone has good parents. I definitely did not. I’ve had to figure out many things throughout life on my own.

Most replies were very positive/helpful though. Thank you! I will be getting a new shampoo as I’ve been using a very cheap brand. Hopefully that helps!

Relevant Comments

NovaHorizon

Go see a dermatologist! That doesn't sound like a pure hygiene issue.

obsidianbonefish

Sounds like psoriasis on your scalp. The flakes are thick and oily. A dermatologist can prescribe something for it.

nicolasbaege

Maybe seborrheic dermatitis, since the oily part is a bit unusual for psoriasis. Some unlucky people even have both. But yeah, a dermatologist needs to look at that.

Update - 10 months later

Hi. It’s me again. I posted nearly a year ago about my “disgusting” scalp. Most comments were super helpful & positive. Others… called me a gross human being.

Anyhow, as it turns out, many of you were correct. I have psoriasis. I wasn’t washing my hair/scalp wrong like I had thought. (I thought you had to scrape it basically.. like many other commenters had me believe.) but I am not an unhygienic person. Quite the opposite.

After posting that, I started to develop dry patches behind one of my ears, and around my eyebrows. No amount of washing, or lotion, makes them go away. So yeah. Turns out I wasn’t washing myself incorrectly. I just have psoriasis… I guess even this update is basically another “TIFU” by thinking I was not washing myself correctly; when I just had a skin condition.

Thanks to everyone who gave tips for dealing with psoriasis! And I’m glad my post called light to an issue that is more common than people think!

TL;DR: My real fuck up was not that I was washing myself incorrectly. I have psoriasis.

Relevant Comments

raulmonkey

Long time psoriasis sufferer can give you some advice. First this: if anyone does not like the look of your patches they can look at the mountains or gardens or whatever they do like it's their choice. Do not stress about it.

2nd try to get plenty of sun 3rd sea water or salt water will clear the excess skin but will not get rid of the redness. 4th stress is definately a factor. 5th sometimes small patches go away if you ignore them. 6h special hair shampoo work for short periods of time so alternate between a few products. And keep well away from some anti dandruff shampoos (old head and shoulders from the 80s and 90s made mine worse don't know about now though). And lastly my psoriasis formed mostly on scar tissue (elbows knees and cuts) so watch out.

DarthZartanyus

The points about sunlight and stress here are super important and not talked about enough. I have pretty bad plaque psoriasis all over my body. Huge patches of flaky, gross skin on my face, elbows, and knees. The more time I spend outside in the summer, the better it gets. I was able to spend a month at the lakes last summer and it basically went away. Came back during the winter with a vengeance though so I'm hoping I can get back out there again this summer.

I have an Uncle who gets it pretty bad too and he says Skyrizi has worked great for him. I haven't been able to get a prescription myself yet but it's probably worth asking your dermatologist about it if that's an option for you.

That’s super interesting/informative to hear! Thank you for sharing. Before psoriasis, I have had another skin condition; Keratosis Pilaris (aka chicken skin), and it has always been better/almost gone with warm weather and the summer months. I wonder/hope that my psoriasis will be the same.

Marked concludedish?

No brigading, no harassment.

Things are getting steamy in more ways than one after by regular Dr.Loops accusing redditors of sexualizing women who are just kinda hanging around.

But if you're expecting the usual group of comments demanding their right to gawk, you'll be sorely disappointed. Because the real bee in everyone's bonnet is that this particular comic artist might not be the best spokesperson for women's bodies. Seeing as:

And to back up that redditor's claim we can look to another helper commenter sharing NSFW. Noting it's clearly:

But maybe that could be called:

And while one comment chain devolves into downvotes and definitions, the artist themself arrives on the scene to defend their work:

They mean 4 cherrypicked comics out of the 100+ that I've drawn? I highly doubt that, considering even my safest comics get "porn" comments.

Why is "sex stuff" automatically considered porn by you?

It doesn't go as well as they might hope.

And anyway, what's the big deal? I mean:

Regardless, I think we all know who to blame:

Because at least according to one redditor it's that damnable meta culture.

I AM NOT OOP. OOP IS

Originally posted on .

1 update - short

Content warning: Substance abuse, drug withdrawal symptoms

How do I tell my bf 33M his habit is killing my 29F sex drive?

Throwaway because I don't want this to get back to my partner before I actually talk to him.

So my boyfriend has always been a huge stoner. Around the time we met and started dating (2 years ago) some things happened that made him realize that being stoned all day every day was ruining his life. He also got fired (semi related) and had to smoke a little bit less because he couldn't afford an ounce every week. I didn't really take our relationship seriously until I saw a sober side of him. But once he started smoking less and less, our relationship got a lot more serious. I don't really have an issue with smoking, but I do have a bit of a problem with him being high constantly.

We now live together and our relationship is overall really great. However. Recently he's started taking dabs (idrk the terminology) at night and he is like a different person when he does. And this other person is so annoying I can barely stand it. He will talk constantly, changing the topic every few minutes completely at random. He'll ask me a question, immediately interrupt my answer and talk about something completely different. He'll also do things that I think are meant to be physical comedy, but they're just the type of things little brothers do to pester you. He'll do weird voices like 4 inches from my face and like poke me and stuff. Then he'll usually try to initiate sex when I am SO IRRITATED. Also worthy of note, it makes his facial hair smell repulsive. I just get the ick so intensely.

This wasn't a huge issue when he only got this high occasionally. But lately it's every night and I never want to sleep with him after he's been riding my every nerve all night. So we go months without having sex because every opportunity to have sex....he gets too high first.

I've talked to him a few times about needing to feel on the same page, or like, mental plane in order to want to have sex. And I've also talked about how unhinged and irritating he gets when he's really high, but he just thinks he's HILARIOUS and I'm being grumpy or something. He also just wants me to get stoned with him, but I just don't really like smoking like that. And if I do smoke I usually just want to go to sleep.

TLDR; Boyfriend is annoying when he smokes, and it's hard for me to want to sleep with him.

How can I (kindly) communicate to him that this is so annoying, and that I can't have sex with someone who acts like an annoying brother? Or how can I just get past this irritation so I can connect with my partner?

Relevant Comments

trishsf

This isn’t going to change as long as he’s constantly high. It won’t. Know that and go from there. You put it well here. You didn’t start feeling serious until you had a chance to know him sober. You’re going to have to be straight with him. I fell in love with the sober you. This version of you doesn’t work for me. If he asks, get specific but I bet his response will be to attempt to tone down his behavior while stoned. He’s 33 years old. This is who he is. Take him or leave him.

He still isn't constantly stoned. He was for like 15 years before we met, and maybe like the first 3 months that we were dating. Then he lost his job (for a lot of reasons, some his fault others not) and didn't have $$ for an ounce a week. So he started smoking less and less. When he was high all the time I thought he was kind of dumb but fun, and I didn't really see him that often. And he was fun to go out with and fun in small doses. Once I saw him sober, I realized he was super funny and nice and interesting.

He hasn't started smoking like that again. But at night after dinner he now smokes dabs. Takes dabs? Idk. And those seem to hit different. He doesn't seem to think they do hit different so when I'm like "you're annoying when you take dabs" he acts like if saying that a shit of whiskey makes him more annoying than a shot of vodka, and he's like "it can't possibly".

I feel like I'm not explaining the issue clearly. He isn't constantly stoned. But he usually is around the time that bedroom things might happen.

Massive_Letterhead90

You're explaining it perfectly?

Getting high matters more to him than having a sex life. Unless finances stops him, he's getting high every day. This is how it's been his entire adult life, this is who he is.

Update - 15 days later

I can't figure out how to link to the original post, but you can check my profile for that.

The same day I posted that last advice post, we had tickets to go to an event, and afterwards we got dinner and drinks. The event was like a themed cocktail tasting, so we were pretty talkative and slightly more candid than we maybe would have been without a bunch of little drinks.

He actually brought up that he felt like we hadn't been meshing well lately, and he felt it might have to do with his smoking, because he felt like he'd been smoking more lately.

This really opened the floodgates, and I said that I had been trying to find a kind and gentle way to talk to him about that without being mean or attacking his behavior. But I said that when he takes dabs he acts really irritating, and that I've talked to him about that before, so this isn't a new topic. I said it was hard for me to want to be intimate with him after he's been bouncing off the walls and having conversations with himself at me for however long. I said that I love him so much and I really love our life together, but this habit of him getting too high to function every night is annoying and genuinely concerning. I asked what he felt like he needed to numb every single night that requires him to get THAT high. I also said that if this was alcohol instead of weed that he wouldn't even be arguing, like if he was getting an equivalent amount of drunk, he would completely see how he'd be acting out of pocket and messy. But we'd gets a pass in his mind.

He asked a few clarifying questions, but otherwise totally agreed and said he was going to try just not smoking at all for a while. I genuinely didn't think this was going to happen, but it did.

The first 3 days were really rough. He went through genuine actual withdrawals and it was kind of shocking to witness. He had zero emotional regulation and broke into tears really intensely multiple times over really minor inconveniences. He got super paranoid and had panic attacks. He got nauseous and struggled to eat. It was really shocking. I knew he'd been an every day smoker for like... almost 2 decades but I didn't really know weed had withdrawals.

But he has actually stuck to not smoking and he's been talking a LOT about how much better he feels without it. He's been a lot more even tempered (he was always a pretty emotional dude, and struggled with depression). A lot of his depression and anxiety symptoms have been non existent. He's had a lot more energy and he started working out a lot more. AND our sex life has been perfect. We've also been having a lot more intimate and interesting conversations and I just feel like our relationship has been perfect.

He has smoked twice since then, both times in social settings and in moderation. No dabs, no being completely zonked. I'm really proud of him and I'm really glad I was able to be so candid.

So thanks for all the advice that wasn't "he's a loser dump him."

Relevant Comments

Constant-Swimmer-141

That's amazing progress! Your courage in having that candid conversation and your boyfriend's commitment to making a change are awesome to see. Witnessing his withdrawal symptoms must have been eye-opening, but it's wonderful to see how much closer you two have become since he cut back. Wishing you both continued growth and happiness together!

Thek40

90% of issues in the sub can be solve with an honest talk.

Marking ongoing, but best wishes for OOP and BF (and get help, seriously).

Please no brigading, no harassment.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Original post also posted in **, both original posts deleted**

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

Content Warning : false CSA allegations

- 17th May 2024

- 18th May 2024

AITA for giving my daughter a breakdown of what it cost to raise her when she asked me for her university funds?

My daughter Ava was a handful growing up. Her dad passed away when she was 5 and even with therapy she was a very angry child.

I still love her very much. She is my daughter and I would do anything for her that I can. Her dad didn't have a lot of insurance but enough to pay off a small house and set aside an emergency fund and top up my daughter's 529 education fund. I kept adding to it over the years. Not much but as I could.

When she was 11 I met and married my husband. I thought Ava was okay with it. She never brought up any problems to me or in our therapy sessions.

She was not. When she was 13 she accused him of something inappropriate. I called the cops immediately. He was arrested and he lost his job. He was innocent. She did it to get rid of him.

We divorced.

I was obviously heartbroken. I did my best not to take it out on her. I did punish her. She started acting out. She got expelled from school. Then another.

I ended up having to send her to a private school. Even with a voucher it was expensive. It worked though. She is graduating this year with honors and a scholarship.

She asked me about the money in her account. I said it was all gone. She got very upset because her scholarship won't cover all costs. Even with financial aid she will still be paying a fair amount.

I said I would cosign a student loan for what she needs. She said that she wanted to know where the money went that I wasted.

So I got out a pen and paper and wrote it all down.

The cost of my divorce. The rising cost of living that I paid for by myself since I didn't have a partner. Her tuition and fees for private school.

By the end she was crying and saying that I was blaming her for everything. I never have. I did punish her for the trouble she caused with my ex but I think that was reasonable.

She is upset that she will have to take out a loan. I also made it very clear that I would not be responsible for paying it back.

She thinks I'm being cruel by saying that she is responsible for stupid things she did as a child. I'm not. But I cannot pull the money I had to spend because of her out of my ass.

Comments

DontAskMeChit

NTA. I'm sorry for your ex, I hope he has recovered from the lie and is doing well. She asked what happened to the money and you showed her. There are consequences and she is now facing them. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, she will find a way to blame you. Try to get her back into counseling if she agrees. Just know you did nothing wrong, and take care of yourself as well.

OOP: My ex is okay. We still talk. He got e new job. He is still angry. He wants nothing to do with her.

Old_Sheepherder_630

INFO: Does she admit the abuse accusation was untrue?

OOP: Yes.

Hot-Freedom-5886

NTA. At 13, your daughter would have known the possible ramifications of her actions. Maybe not the financial ones, but definitely the legal ones.

OOP: She knew what she was doing.

laurasdiary

Info: how do you know your ex husband was innocent?

OOP: The police investigated. The charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Also there was evidence that what she claimed was impossible. I will give one example. My ex worked in his truck. She claimed he came home during the day. His truck had a tracker from his employer and a camera that showed he was on the other side of the city.

thetroublewithyouis

if you co-sign for a loan- you could end up being responsible for paying it back.

Ser_Tinnley

THIS -- cosigning means you put your credit history on the line to help her get approved for the loans, and in the event she defaults, YOU become responsible. DO NOT DO THIS if you do not intend to ensure she can make her payments.

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 1 day later

Thank you all for your comments. Even the ones where you called me a raving bitch for calling the cops after my daughter's allegations.

First

My ex was completely cleared. He was never home at the times she alleged the SA. We have security cameras in my house. There are exactly zero videos of him entering her room or being inappropriate with her in the common areas. I have already commented on the other evidence that got the charges against my ex dropped. She admitted the truth and said that she was doing it to get him out of our house.

He is doing okay now. He has a new job and he and I still talk. Her excuse was that she didn't think I would immediately call the cops. She thought I would just kick him out since it is my house. She felt trapped and like she couldn't back down. She has never apologized to him. She has been in therapy since she was five. Both on her own and with me. To my knowledge she never mentioned anything about SA to her therapist. And they are mandatory reporters.

Second.

I told her that I will not be cosigning her loans. I told her that I will be backing her up and doing my best to make sure that she does not default but I am not risking my home or my future for her.

She fully understands now where her savings went. She is upset with herself mostly now. She realizes that the private school was my last choice. And only necessary because of choices she made.

Thank you all for your help.

Third.

Since I do not care about karma I will be giving this account to either or tomorrow.

They are welcome to delete the posts or sell the account for the $.59 it is worth.

Comments (there are also a lot of comments vilifying the daughter for the false allegation)

DissolvedDreams

My ex was completely cleared

But the shame never goes away.

LoudManagement6634

Yeah there’s a whole former workplace of people who think he’s a pedophile. That’s legitimately traumatic.

Raisins_Rock

Sounds like the breakdown of expenses gave her a reality check she needed

cloistered_around

Since I do not care about karma I will be giving this account to either or tomorrow.

What a weird casual thing to say. (giving an account, not the karma bit)

oceansapart333

Someone else clarified in another comment that apparently these two were accusing her of karma farming.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am NOT OOP, OOP is

Originally posted to

I think this woman is using me for free-childcare

Trigger Warnings: entitlement

: April 21, 2024

I 24M teach boxing in my spare time, and one day a week, I teach it to kids.

There's a mom who i'm starting to feel like is taking advantage of these classes.

She's increasingly late with picking up her kid after the session.

To give some context, this is a rich woman. It's not that she's out working a job. She is a stay at home parent. No other kids. She told me all this because another thing she loves to do is have really long conversations with me on top of already being late.

She's been late most of March (3 classes). I talked to her about it at the end of the month and she apologized and said it won't happen again. It did. x2 now. So I started timing her.

The second week of April (no class the first week), she arrived 45 minutes late. Then spent maybe 20 minutes talking to me. The other day, I timed her again. She got there around the 1 hour mark. I made a point to show her my timer and I gave her a warning that I will remove her kid from my class. She tried to derail the conversation so I raised the timer and turned it on again. She said I was being 'unjustifiably rude' (exact words).

I explained (politely) that I have other obligations and her consistent lateness throws my schedule off.

She didn't want to have this conversation, stomped to the driver's side of her car. Her kid lowered his window to say thank you and 'bye' to me. I told him bye and added 'tell your mom to stop being late'.

She reported our conversation to my boss but twisted it. She said that I threatened her kid with getting kicked out of the program. I didn't say it like that. And I didn't say it to her kid. There are other instructors, I was just implying (to her) that I won't have him in my group. My boss still gave me a lecture about how I don't have that power and can't make the statements I did. He went over professionalism and how i'm being too hard on this mom who could have other circumstances going on.

But i'm not getting paid for the hour after this class that I spend hanging out with her kid.

The kid's great.. but I have things to do.

For people who work with kids, what's the etiquette here? do I give parents grace?

I told my boss i'm going to start adding up all the hours and one of them is going to have to pay me.

AITAH?

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP was NTA

Relevant Comments

OOP on wanting to set in the boundaries and fine system for late pickups and to have the boss set the firm approach for it.

OOP: See. That's how it should be. Unfortunately, I don't think my boss has any policy around it judging from the way our conversation went. If this continues to be an issue, I'm going to push for compensation since his approach currently has me taking responsibility for it. I'll send an email to him about clarifying so I have some kind of a written response.

OOP on the policy and the front desk staff to deal with the phone calls to parents for pickups

OOP: There is no front desk. I didn't want to immediately escalate to CPS and cops before making some attempts with the mom. The (lack of?) policy is definitely an issue.. that I am now going to push to address/seek further info about.

OOP on getting paid for his time of the hours he did outside his duties

OOP: I added them up, sent it to him and everything— he told me he will only pay me moving forward. I should let it go, and then made a point to remind me that I volunteered for this job knowing it was new and there would be hiccups.

: May 1, 2024

I appreciate the advice I got on the post I made. I learned a lot from you.

Here's the update:

I took various notes from the people who gave me tips here. I wrote a detailed email to my boss and cc'd other people who run this program, including co-instructors. I did this for transparency, accountability, and to put pressure on my boss to provide a policy around the issue instead of him dealing with us all individually / case by case.

My boss didn't respond to the email, instead he called me in to see him. I kind of had a feeling he’d do that.

He asked me why I sent the email cc'ing everyone and was clearly not happy about my approach. He kept trying to minimize the situation, and make me feel that I am in the wrong. He told me that I'm being greedy. That my attitude about one parent being late is exaggerated and I'm looking for problems. I should essentially just wait around after-hours if I need to sometimes (unpaid) because it's a program for kids. I should do this with some heart and "Do it for the kids". I had to turn my face to hide the fact that I wanted to laugh in that moment. But mostly I was frustrated.

Having proper policies in place not only protects the staff, it protects the kids, not to mention his fucking business. After I made my perspective clear (in a mostly professional manner).. he came around a little.

Unfortunately, he flat out told me he will not back-pay me for the time that I've logged waiting for this mom, but he will implement a late policy moving forward. He's followed through on that. He tried to throw in other useless incentives for me. I didn't accept them.

That mom wasn't late this week. She did try to catch my eye when she picked her son up and I ignored her. She ended up getting out of her car and asked me if I saw her waving. I kept ignoring her. She wore me down because she kept following me around while I locked up. I informed her why she's getting the silent treatment. She apologized and also tried to write me a check on the spot. I didn't take the money. I told her... honestly, I might quit instead. I am sharing this because the woman clearly lives in her own world. Here, just take my money and stop being mad at me. I was so furious. It took everything in me to keep the words that I said to her to a minimum.

I am on the fence about just letting this go. Maybe the program will get smoother with time. It's not a lot of money worth fighting over... I am so disappointed in my boss. I’ve known him for a long time as a mentor/friend. Being his employee has been something else. The program itself is very new and disorganized. Due to differences of opinion about how its run, I doubt I will stay with it.

This is my first time working a job that involves kids. My actual profession is unrelated to boxing. This was mostly something I picked up spontaneously, because I saw the merit in it and I wanted to do my part to help. I admit I could use the extra money too. I don’t mean to be greedy or stingy, but I live in an insanely expensive city and I take care of someone with expensive medical bills.

I haven't proof-read this, but it looks longer than I wanted it to be. I’m sorry. I’m tired.

Relevant Comments

OOP on being frustrated with his boss and the situation

OOP: I wouldn’t say I’m angry about the situation.. I think I am mostly frustrated with my boss’s approach in dealing with issues. It’s hard to convey all of it in writing but he’s extremely stubborn and hard headed. He takes unnecessary offence to constructive feedback and then holds grudges. Getting him to do anything is always more difficult than it needs to be. He will try to bulldoze you, there’s always friction no matter what you suggest. It shouldn’t have to be like that.

I think I’m coming to terms with the realization that he’s a great friend and mentor but a terrible person to collaborate or do business with. I wish he would have taken what I said more seriously instead of focusing so much on this being an isolated issue when it could easily happen again with another parent. Even though he’s implemented the new policies, he’s acting as if he did me a favor.

The person I was angry at, is the mom.. because of the way she talked to me and threw money at me. There was no understanding.

She was so quick to report me to my boss and twist my words last week, and this week shes at pickup trying to flag me to chat like it never happened. The entitlement of this woman. She can’t stand being ignored. And when I reminded her what she did she acted as if it was just a money problem. Who cares about the appointments I got late for and the trouble she caused me— she can write me a check right now and order me to stop being mad at her. It definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

I absolutely hear you though. Thank you.

WaitUntilIDie: You'd make the right call to cut your loses, see this as a learning opportunity for what is not only intolerable but most likely illegal. I can't think of any state where you can be expected to continue working without pay. Id go as far as to suggest reporting the hours you were unpaid to the labor board in your state if you are from the states.

You are being taken advantage of here, but you know that. Do what's best for you. I'm not only suggesting making the report so you get paid, but also to put this business on notice because you probably aren't the only person they will try to exploit this way especially after you've left and having that record is important to show a pattern of behavior on the business owners part.

ERVetSurgeon: Report him to the Dept of Labor at the federal level. You cannot force someone to stay on the job "off the clock." If they did that, you will get back pay.

Hellokitty55: I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You're NTA. You tried to level with your boss and get him to understand. I'm guessing he doesn't want any backlash bc of business. I wish there weren't people out there that takes advantage of kindness.

: May 13, 2024

Previous post:

I got other instructors to get on my boss’s case with me. I also informed him I have to quit the kids class and I will quit the training I do with adults too / leave the gym and our friendship if he doesn’t hear me out respectfully.

The reason I wanted to avoid reporting my boss is because I have a relationship with him and nearly everyone at this gym going back almost 10 years. I didn’t want to resort to making a report without exploring every other option first.

My boss caved. I’ll get paid for the extra hours I logged on the next paycheck.

Moving forward, I will no longer teach the kids, because although we have a policy and late pickup fee in place, as it stands right now, instructors are still responsible to stay back until the last kid leaves and my boss doesn’t want to negotiate on that. I can’t stay behind after classes. I have other obligations the same day as the class I teach. It’s unfortunate because this one parent is the only one currently abusing the system because she can afford to.

That kid’s mom was late this week again by 30 minutes. Showed her my timer. I also told her I’ve quit. She asked me if the late warnings “reset” when a new instructor takes over (they don’t). She then tried to hire me out from under my boss as her kid’s private instructor. I said no, but I might reconsider if she ever wants lessons. I would love to give that woman hell.

Alright, that’s the end of that. I feel bad I couldn’t stick it out with this kids program but it’s too disorganized for me right now.

Relevant Comment

RaptorOO7: Sounds like she has zero respect for anyone else’s time, sure who doesn’t love money, but my time is money and I value my time a lot more than her money.

Good call not working for her who knows what kind of hell she would put you through.

People with money know that money talks and most will take it. When you don’t out of principle they just can’t understand it.

OOP: People like her ruin it for other parents and my boss refuses to implement a condition like .. X amount of lates will result in your kid being dropped from the class.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

.....IM NOT THE ORIGINAL POSTER........

Posted by on

**TRIGGER WARNINGS:** Assault

ORIGINAL POST, Posted April 23, 2024,

Miles and I have known each other since we were 2 because our parents are best friends.

Now I would not say miles is my best friend. He is a good friend and we do hang out on occasion but see each other on all major holidays because of our parents.

We are in our early 20s.

The problem started because of a dumb childhood memory. When we were 8, we had a wedding play on school after care. I played the bride and miles the groom. It was a play. With horrible songs and uncoordinated kids.

Obs our parents made pictures and videos of that. And we each have one picture on our family picture walls.

Miles is dating Lindy. They met 3 years ago and started dating last year. Lindy does not like me.

So every time we concide at a celebration, she makes a comment about me being the typical girl best friend. She one time said that I secretly wanted to sleep with Miles.

I have no clue where she got that impression from. Miles and I have different friend groups and schedules. Besides the monthly catch-up over food, we didn't really meet that much.

Things got worse when Lindy saw the wedding play picture. The comments just got more. She even started DMing me on Instagram saying "she knew what game i was playing."

I talked to Miles once about this, and he told me to give her time.

So his birthday was on Saturday and I was invited. Lindy wrote me saying something along the lines that she was going to supervise me. This was their first birthday as a couple, and I was not allowed to take up his time.

I was honestly just fed up. I tried talking to Miles once more, but he said the same thing.

So I just skipped out. When the party started I wrote a quick sorry I can't come and told him my mother was going to bring his present.

Now he is upset with me for missing his birthday Lindy is mad that I made it all about myself, and my parents are upset I missed a "family function"

Aita ?

Edit: I didn't show anyone the messages because it didn't want to make more out of this than it is.

I didn't want to poison anyone against Lindy, especially not if she is a new fixture in Miles life. That would make both our lives more difficult. I hoped that just talking about it might be the more adult thing.

My parents are not mad at me or blowing up my phone. Ala reddit fashion. They and Miles parents were just bummed out that this was the first birthday that I ever missed.

As to why she is jealous. I have no idea. Neither of our parents ever wanted us to get together. There were no jokes or anything about it. I think they also never would want that.

The wedding play picture is in the living rooms because they loved the picture and it was our first play.

........................................

RELEVANT COMMENTS

COMMENT: It just seemed that there are so few romantic/ social options in this story.

Like why is some goofy photo from decades ago hanging on the wall? Why are you expected to be lifelong friends with this person? Why are both of your families involved?

Just seems odd to me. I have so many questions.

OP: That's the part that seems odd to you? Our parents are best friends from Uni and stayed best friends. They are like family.

Miles and I are not made to be lifelong friends. We were besties when we were little. Then we we went to different secondary schools. And he developed more into the sports kind of guy and I developed more into the need nieche. So we don't have too much in common anymore but we hang out sometimes.

The picture is there because our parents like it. There are also a few of me with other kids that I don't know any more.

...

COMMENT: I didn’t mean to make you angry. Sorry.

I just have a different experience. The whole idea of parents constructing the narrative of my life and choosing for me who is family and friends based on who they went to college with decades ago is outside of my experience. They chose to be friends with these people. Not you. This whole problem seems easily avoided. Unless you feel deeply connected to these people.

OP: I was not angry! I was just confused as to why that was the part that stuck out to you. I apologize If that came off as aggressive

Of course I feel connected to them. I can't remember a time when they weren't there. Miles father for example, always drove me to my karate lessons, and they always came to my tournaments. I don't feel forced on them. And it's always nice, seeing my parents be so happy when they all do something.

...

COMENT: I find it’s easy for things to go sideways on here so I try to be careful. You weren’t aggressive!

In my experience, the early twenties are the time when we start really interrogating our relationships and redefining friends and family.

OP: That is very true! Miles is, as I said, not my best friend. But I do care about him and we have a good time when we meet. We are just not as close as when we were kids for obvious reasons

...

COMMENT: well ? what did you say back? put that girl on blast! if you know she’s in the wrong people are bound to take your sideeee

OP: I didn't say anything back to her after her last message

...

COMMENT: NTA.

Although honestly I feel like you might be underplaying your friendship a little bit if he was upset about you missing it. The way you describe it originally is that you are basically friends by association. If that was the case then I really wouldn’t expect him to have an issue with you missing his birthday. I am confused by the fact your defense for not wanting to sleep with him is that you have different friend circles. Not sure how that fits.

Also kinda worried about it being a family function. It’s their friends sons birthday. Do your parents expect you two to end up together? How sure of you that play was a play and there isn’t any legal binding thing between you and him? (I know some states have marriage laws against marrying that young but I don’t know them and this is the dark path my brain went down).

As for you skipping the party: how is you not going to a birthday party making it about you? The girlfriend is way too fixated on you and your actions. I wonder if your friend or his parents have said stuff about you to make her this wary of you. Like comparing something she’s said or done to something you have said or done. Or maybe he had a crush on you at one point and you weren’t aware and he let it slip to his girlfriend.

Other people have said it here but definitely need to tell your parents what’s going on and why you didn’t go. That way you have some people in your corner (hopefully). And have a conversation with the friend and his Gf in a Public place where you inform them “he’s like a brother/cousin. I have no feeling towards him and he has no feelings towards me.”

OP: No, we are friends independently from our parents. Just not best friends.He was upset because this was the first birthday that I ever missed.

With the friend circle, I want to say we don't hang out all the time, not even in bigger groups, because we are so different.

My parents see their family as an extension to ours. The rest of your questions have already been answered.

...

COMMENT: NAH

Lindy is insecure. She just needs to make a close male friend who she is integrated in his family and he integrates in her family. A friend who she goes to all the major holidays with and meets up regularly with.🤣 My advice to women struggling with insecurity about female friends their bf has....is to get her own male friends.

I'm a bit suspicious of your narrative since if your parents see Miles birthday as a family function then you are closer and spend more time with him than once a month. Especially if you spend the majority holidays together.

OP: Why suspicious? Our parents see each other weekly or not daily. Miles and I don't see each other that often because of life circumstances. We try to meet minimum once a month, and we will obviously see each other at family reunions. We are good friends. I never said we are not. We are just not super super best friends who talk and write everyday

........................................................

UPDATE, Posted May 4, 2024, 11 days later,

I will update in the first part and clarify some things later

After my post I talked to Miles. At first he was kind of mad and thought I had been blowing things out of proportion. Some more details are in my last post.

We came to the conclusion of taking more distance while he figures that all out. Mainly because I did not want the added stress of petty drama.

Then I talked to my parents and explained to them, what was going on. They were really upset by how Lindy treated me.

Like obviously they weren't going to get involved , but it was nice to get that of my chest.

Then nothing else happened. Until Tuesday evening. Wednesday was a holiday so some of my friends took the opportunity to go to an Irish pub to do karaoke. At some point my best friend and I went to pee and touch up our make up. Then Lindy and some of her friends walked in and kind of cornered us. It wasn't pretty. They stared loudly talking about "man sealing bitches" and how some women were just born to be homewreckers. And imagine being pathetic enough to pretend to be a guy's friend to fuck him and how pick me's are the worst. They kept kind of edging us physically into the part where the hand dryers were while pretending we were not there. Until my best friend had enough and just pushed trough them wile drawing me behind her. We were almost at our table when Lindy went right behind me and pulled my her so that I feel backwards onto like a metallic peace where you are supposed to put your feet on. It hurt so bad that I started to see white. And then a girl next to Lindy poured beer on me. I can not really tell you what happened, but there was a scuffle and somone dropped one of those heavy pint glasses on my head.

The Lindies were taken away by police and I was taken to the hospital. My parents were furious as were Miles parents. They both came to the hospital. I was severely concussed, my nose was factured and the worst thing is that I have a hairline fracture in my back. I stayed in the hospital till yesterday morning.

Miles did try calling me a bunch. According to my parents, they told him to not visit me right now. I did get a official notice saying that apparently there was now a legal case open against Lindy and one other girl for not only assault but also public disturbance in the bar. So now I'll have to deal with all that legally.

I finally talked to Miles. And long story short. Those of you saying Lindy was isolating him was a sign of an abusive relationship was right. He told me all the things she said to him to make him feel awful. She would freak out about anything in her live and take that out on him. She would scratch him and bite him when she was mad. Our talk ended with both of us crying and apologizing. We will be closer again. At least so we can talk about these things more often. He broke up with her and is hiding at my parents house.

So that is it for now.

.................................................

NO COMMENTS FROM OP ON UPDATE POST, BUT OP DID POST ON , HERE IS THE LINK

SHE DID LEAVE COMMENTS THERE, WHICH READS AS FOLLOWS:

COMMENT: Hey OP, are you doing OK? The injuries you described can go from "be careful for a few weeks" to "absolutely devastating", so hopefully it's not too bad for you?

OP: I don't quite know yet. I am resting right now and have a check-up on Monday. But the doctors told me there is a chance of chronic effects

...

COMMENT: Crazy how easily this jumped from some shitty comments to serious physical violence

OP: It was just really dumb events. Lindy wanted to fight me, but she didn't mean to fight me in the pub. As dumb as this sounds. She pulled my hair saying something like "Hey fuckface". But because I didn't expect it, and she pulled quite hard and I had a ponytail I slipped and ate shit. I am about 79% sure she didn't drop the glas on me. It looked like one of her friends knocked it from the table while trying to fight a bouncer.

I stalked them on Instagram, and they seem like typical rich girls who have gotten away with everything and didn't expect this to actually have consequences.

But they are already here. I couldn't even press charges fast enough. I honestly don't know who did. But I think of the police or something like that witnesses the crime it has to be persecuted. Sorry for rambling lol

...

COMMENT: Don’t drop them. If she has money, you will need whatever settlement you can get when you realize just how permanent some of those injuries can end up being. Look out for the future you that will be old and in pain walking up a bunch of stairs or sitting down for too long.

OP: I couldn't if I wanted to. As soon as the state is involved there is no turning back.

...

COMMENT: I hope you pursue a civil case as well. The state will take care of the criminal, but you may need a civil suit for your damages. Hope you have a lawyer to help! They’ll absolutely do it on commission if you don’t have one yet!

**OP:**Yes. My parents were just here, and my dad was pissed. He is going to hire a lawyer to make her pay any lost wages and potentially lost wages in my future.

...

**COMMENT:**I thought the same thing! Like even if you're lifelong friends and your families are close, why would you want to be friends with someone who downplayed your concerns knowing this person was abusive? Especially since this led to her in the hospital. Also, in other comments she seems to even be downplaying the actions of Lindy and her friends.

OP: Maybe because he was actively being abused but was invalidated in his own feelings, leading to him brung afraid and trying to make everyone happy but mostly trying to appease his abuser so he would be worthy of her love and not her hate?

......................

...IM NOT THE ORIGINAL POSTER...

DO NOT COMMENT ON ORIGINAL POST, BRIGADING IS AGAINST THE RULES!!!!!!!!

I am NOT OOP, OOP posted from 2 accounts: +

Originally posted to

My husband kicked me out of the home because I invited over his mother

Trigger Warnings: sexual abuse of a child, trauma, miscarriage

: March 30, 2024

I preface this by saying I think I screwed up massively.

Hubbie and I have been married for six years now. He's always been the "fun guy", always laughing and making me laugh, always seeing the bright side of things. However, one thing that bothered me was that I never knew much of his family. His father died when he was little and he has little relationship with his mom.

I'll keep this short: four months ago I looked up his mom on social media and found her. I sent a message, and she replied. We chatted and met up, she doesn't live far from us. She knew all about me and her son because she kept an eye on him on social. We became friends and I filled her in with details about our lives. I asked her why hubbie went no contact with her. She refused to tell me why if hubbie didn't tell me, just said it was all her fault and she's ashamed of it. I proposed to try what I could to help them reconcile and she agreed even if she was reluctant at first.

In the following weeks I tried talking to hubbie about his mother and what happened between them. He always changed topic or shut me down. When MIL asked me how it was going, I told her things were progressing and I was working on it.

Last week I decided to try and have them meet up so maybe we could spend Easter together. I invited MIL over before my husband would be back from work so we could surprise. She was a bit unsure about this, she said she wasn't comfortable surprising him like that, but I ressured her. I thought that any emotion hubbie could have would be better cooled by a hug.

Spoiler alert, MIL was right. Hubbie came home, and after the initial shock started yelling like I never heard him to her to get out immediately. She just grabbed her coat and stormed out. Afterwards, hubbie told me to get out too when I explained what I had done. He didn't yell at me, but his voice was cold and almost emotionless.

I've been staying at my sister's since. Hubbie won't take my calls. MIL cried on the phone and asked why I lied like that and never talked to my hubbie and "prepared" him for that. Now she stopped taking my calls as well.

I know I have screwed up big time, and I see now what a massive dork I've been. How can I fix this? I want to apologize to hubbie for what I did and maybe find out why his mom is dead to him.

Comments

Commenter: You’re a manipulative liar with no concept of boundaries. You’re staring divorce in the face and STILL want details on a situation that has absolutely fuck all to do with you. You know you’re a despicable person when even the estranged mother wants nothing to do with you. Grow up.

**MollyRolls:**You transgressed on such a massive and personal level and you still think you might be entitled to “find out why”? OP, this is not your trauma. Your husband is an autonomous adult who is allowed to set his own boundaries, and if you couldn’t trust his ability to make good decisions in that regard you should not have married him. Instead you meddled and undermined and completely violated his trust—he trusted that you would act like a partner, not an overbearing matchmaker who didn’t believe him about his own lived experience.

You don’t have to know what happened. It is not your place to judge whether it was “bad enough.” It does not matter if you ever understand. All you ever had to do was trust him, and you demonstrated you have no interest in being that sort of spouse, and so it serves you right if you lost him.

sk1999sk ask your husband to go to marriage counseling. You betrayed him big time. He may never be able to forgive you. You also need individual therapy to find out why you would do something like this to someone you supposedly love. if your husband refuses marriage counseling and ends your marriage, please see a therapist on you your own.

Editor’s Note: removed the bottom part of the update as it had the rehash of the original post

: April 20, 2024

Hey guys My original post and account got nuked, and I can't find them anymore. If someone can find my original post I'll add It in an edit.

The last weeks have been rough, but we might be okay.

Hubbie opened up about the reason he cut off his mother and many of you were right, it was s3xual abuse. Not from his mother, but his stepfather. They were engaged and his mom was pregnant with his child when the guy started giving my husband "attentions".

Husband went to his mom but she shut him down accusing him of being jealous and wanting to spoil her happiness. This went on until his mother came home from work unexpectedly and walked in on the guy "giving attention" to my husband. She kicked him out, pressed charges and annulled their engagement, but the damage was done and my husband no longer trusted her. She also lost the baby due to stress and although she never blamed my husband for it, he felt it was his fault.

All this felt like a gut punch for me, first for what he went through, and then because now I am the person who shattered his trust. He said he did consider divorce over this, but pretty bluntly said that he thinks my actions were out of stupidity rather than malice, and he wants to work things out.

I am committed to do my best to become a better and safe partner for him, I know I have this stupid and selfish tendency to think that I often know better than him, but I have to get over it because it hurt him massively and almost imploded our relationship. I don't want to be another person he trusted and ended up hurting him.

He also decided to reach out to his mom and start talking to her again. He's not sure they can repair the relationship, but he wants for both of them to find some closure.

Comments

laurcarol: There is zero reason for him to repair the relationship with his mom . I hope he gets the closure he deserves. I happen to remember your original post, and I still don’t know if you fully grasp what you did wrong.

Kebar8: Just so you know this is not something that will be fixed in the next few weeks or months.

This is going to take years for you to regain his full trust and love again

I hope you've put yourself in therapy to work out why you put yourself first here and not his wishes

Dry-Hearing5266: You need to put yourself in therapy.

Your level of boundary stomping and dismissing your husband's feelings along with your admission that you often "think that I often know better than him" shows you have issues that you need to address in individual therapy

You need to understand that you don't deserve his consideration no matter the reason for his estrangement with his mother. Whether you think it's justified or not.

You seem to have some narcissistic tendencies, and you need to get that addressed. A mentally healthy person would never do this.

: May 13, 2024

Hello everyone.

You can find the rest of the story on my previous post.

My husband is doing better and our relationship is slowly getting back to what it was. I know it will take a lot of time to repair the damage I caused, but I am willing to give him all the time he wants and do anything he asks out of me.

The bitter irony of this whole story is that he told me he had been thinking about reaching out to his mother, but on his terms and time. By going behind his back I almost destroyed that chance of reconciliation and imploded our marriage.

I am working on myself and will start seeing a therapist next month so I never do something like that ever again and more importantly, never betray his trust ever again.

Also, with my husband's knowledge and consent, I apologized to MIL for leading her on with false promises and she has forgiven me.

As for him and MIL, they started talking to each other, have met a couple of times in public and yesterday my husband invited her over for dinner so that in his words we all can try to start over properly.

She's a very sweet woman and she's eager to reconcile with him and get to know me. My husband said that for now he wants for all of us to get a bit used to each other, then he and MIL will get to work on their traumas (his words).

He says she's not the "villain" in what happened, but he needs to come to terms with her poor decisions and his own feelings of guilt for her losing her baby. MIL on the other hand is very apologetic and extremely sorry about what happened (in my husband's opinion, sincerely so) and doesn't blame him at all for the miscarriage.

As for me, I just sit aside and do my best to rebuild the trust with my husband and become a better and safe partner.

He started being affectionate with me again and we are no longer on thin ice, but I can't stop thinking I almost lost him because I thought I knew better than him.

Comment

Veronika9216: I remember your story, and I hope you appreciate how lucky you are to be given a second chance.

You know you screwed up when both your husband and the estranged parent are upset at you for what you have done. It seems you all are on the road of reconciling, but never forget that your short-sighted actions could have nuked any possibility of them reconciling and your own marriage.

Be thankful you are given this chance, don't screw it up and although your husband and MIL have forgiven you for breaking both their trusts, it will take time to rebuild their trust for you.

DO NOT COMMENT IN LINKED POSTS OR MESSAGE OOPs – BoRU Rule #7

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT OOP

I am not The OOP, OOP is

My (26F) fiance (28M) slept with my sister (32F). Heartbroken and devastated. I can't move on.

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

TRIGGER WARNING: infidelity, betrayal, self harm, depression, property damage

Nov 27, 2015

Hi Reddit. I'm posting here in the hope that someone can give me some advice, share their experiences, I don't know. I'm just completely at a loss. I feel like my heart has been ripped out.

My fiance (let's call him Jake) and I have been together for 7 years. I don't know a life without him. I met him at university, we stayed together past graduation, and moved into a flat which we bought together 2 years ago. He proposed last summer and we were set to wed in July 2017. We have had very few problems until now.

My sister (let's call her Sara) is an extremely volatile person. Growing up, I doted on her completely but she had a lot of personal issues that made our home life turbulent. Her childhood was very different to mine. My parents had very little money, they were on the brink of a divorce, my dad was physically violent on a number of occasions. Whilst things improved drastically in the years after I was born, she has an abundance of problems that stem back to this. My parents feel a lot of guilt about Sara's upbringing, and used to let her get away with some shocking behavior.

Sara had the same boyfriend for as long as I can remember (they dated from when they were 16), and their relationship was toxic. They habitually broke up and got back together; when they were good, they were crazy in love. But more often than not, she would have these insane arguments (sometimes physical) with him then take out her frustrations and despair on myself and my parents. I remember spending many nights lying by her side in bed while she cried so hard she would retch. After their arguments, she would throw plates and glasses at the wall, hit herself. Sometimes she would hit me and my parents too. It was like he was a drug to her, and she was emotionally stunted and didn't know how to see anything past their relationship.

2 months ago, her boyfriend called things off for good. I don't know what gave, but after nearly two decades together, he finally had enough. He booked a one way ticket to another country, changed his number, deleted all social media profiles, and essentially disappeared from Sara's life. To this day, she still won't explain what caused this, but it was long overdue.

To say Sara was devastated is an understatement. She moved out of their shared rented apartment, and in with my parents. I would visit her most days after work, where she would flit in between explosive rage to an almost catatonic silence, staring at the wall with tears streaming down her face. At one point, we were all extremely worried she might seriously harm herself and organized for her to see a therapist (something I had suggested for years). Of course, she backed out days before her appointment, and there were no consequences. She is, after all, a grown woman. She just hasn't changed emotionally in the entire time I've known her, and still acts like a teenager.

2 days ago. I went to visit Sara, who was in bed in her darkened room. I let myself in and attempted to speak to her, telling her about my day at work. She immediately exploded, screaming at me, throwing her pillows across the room, crying uncontrollably. She told me life was unfair. That I had everything and she was left alone to "rot". That everything wrong in her life was because she was a bad person. She hurt her boyfriend, she drove him away, she's ruined our family, she fucked Jake and didn't even feel guilty at the time. I initially thought I'd misheard her, but then she said it again. It was like she had poured a bucket of ice water over me.

I silently left, shaking. When I got home, Jake was there watching TV. It came out of my mouth the second I saw him, and I could see in his eyes it was true. He broke down, and told me it had happened 3 years ago. Sara had had another blazing row with her boyfriend and decided to drive round to Jake's looking for me. I was at our parents at the time and Jake attempted to pacify Sara. He comforted her while she sobbed in his arms, and one thing led to another. They had sex.

I packed an overnight bag while he followed me from room to room, sobbing and telling me it was the worst mistake of his life, that he still has no idea how it happened. That he felt unbelievably guilty the second it was over, that it feels like it wasn't even real. I left him in the doorway begging me not to leave.

I've checked into a hotel and have switched my phone off. I don't know what to do, who to tell, where to begin. I feel sick, like this is a bad dream. My heart feels like it's been ripped into a million pieces. For all of Sara's faults, I love her more than anything. It's the two people who are more to me than anyone else in the world.

How the fuck do I move on from this? I feel like I'm in a bubble. I don't know what's going on in the outside world. All I do is cry and sleep in this room. Someone please help me make sense of this.

tl;dr: My volatile sister recently went through a break up after a 16 year relationship with the love of her life. She is severely depressed and almost catatonic; I went to visit her one day only for her to explode and tell me she slept with my fiance 3 years ago. He admitted it was true and I haven't spoken to a soul since. I have locked myself in a hotel room with no plans of ever coming out. My heart is shattered into a million pieces and I don't know what to do.

Nov 29, 2015

Hi everyone.

I logged on this afternoon to find 300 + replies and messages to my . I am unbelievably touched by the all people who reached out to me, particularly 's incredible response which spoke to me on a level I didn't think possible from a stranger. I'd like to thank each and every single person who took the time out of their day for me; I was so overwhelmed that I've not responded to a single one as of yet but it is truly truly appreciated.

Now onto the update.

It has only been a day or so since I made my post, but it feels like I'd been in that hotel room for weeks, crying in the dark buried under the covers. At some point this morning, I decided to draw the curtains open and let the sunlight in. I went and sat on the balcony and switched my phone on for the first time. It started ringing within 30 seconds. It was my mother, who burst into tears as soon as I answered. Her and my parents had obviously been desperately worried (this is the longest I have ever gone without contact) and had even contemplated calling the police had I failed to contact them by this evening.

My mom informed me that as I was walking out of Sara's room, down the stairs, and out the front door, Sara was screaming and wailing that she's sorry. Funnily enough, I didn't hear this. I don't know how. I think I was in such a state of shock that I couldn't process anything around me. Honestly, I can't even remember the drive home. After I shut the door behind me, my mom (who was the only other person at home) rushed into Sara's room to find her trashing her room and attempting to slash her wrists with a blunt lino cutter of all instruments (Sara used to do a lot of art). Obviously, this barely caused a scratch but jump started my mom into action. She drove Sara to the hospital, where I understand she underwent some sort of assessment and was kept overnight. She has, incredibly, agreed to undergo treatment for whatever it is that is wrong with her. My mom was surprised she was so complaisant on the drive down, willingly entering the car and saying nothing other than asking where I am.

Sara seems resigned and completely deflated; my mom spoke to me at length for the first time in my life about the hardships they had undergone during Sara's childhood. I am unwilling to go into detail and am still in shock about some of the things I heard. Sara is not devoid of responsibility; she has long surpassed the age where she can blame her childhood for her behavior, but my mom admitted through tears that not sending her to therapy at an early age was the biggest regret of her life so far.

I asked my mom if she knew why I had left; she admitted that she had known SINCE SARA'S EX LEFT TWO MONTHS AGO. At this point, I had to struggle not to hang up and I suddenly felt myself going back into that pit, but she begged me to listen. After her ex Harry (I am too drained to invent a name...hi Harry) left, Sara told my mom exactly what had happened. It was not the reason for Harry's departure, although he did know about it. Rather, he had had enough of being Sara's carer, and years of begging her to seek help had fallen on deaf ears one too many times. When Sara informed my mom, my mom told Sara I have to know immediately. Sara refused to tell me, and I still don't know why she changed her mind in that moment. My dad doesn't know for anyone wondering, and thinks I've left as I've also finally had enough of Sara's behavior.

Now here is where the home truths came out. I asked my mom if she knew the details. She was reluctant to tell me anything, stating that it had happened and that was all I needed to know. But I told her I refused to step foot in the house until I knew everything. She then proceeded to tell me that a few months before they slept together, Sara and Jake had kissed at my dad's 60th birthday party. It was a large family gathering with a lot of alcohol involved. I remember Jake getting very drunk with my cousins. Sara had a crying tantrum prior to arriving as her and Harry had an argument and he refused to come (she called me sobbing before she arrived). At some point during the night, Jake asked her if she was okay and hugged her, and once again "one thing led to another" and they shared a kiss in the kitchen. Sara told my mom that they were both immediately remorseful and vowed never to speak of it again, but Sara deliberately sought him out the night they slept together knowing he was unlikely to turn her down. She openly admitted she did it to get back at Harry, who had cheated on her during one of their many infamous breaks. I don't think I even entered her thoughts.

At this point, I'd heard enough. We'd spoken on the phone for over four hours and I felt mentally drained and physically sick. Any hope I had of salvaging my relationship with Jake has completely gone. I feel the last 3 years have been tainted by their betrayal, and the many years before that I wonder: did he like Sara this whole time? Part of me doesn't even want to know.

It's worth noting he has made absolutely no attempt to contact me other than a single TEXT stating "I'm sorry. Take as long as you need". As if it's inevitable I will come back to him.

Things are still up in the air. I don't feel ready to check out of the hotel as I don't know where I'm going to go next. I feel my relationship with my mom has been rocked by these revelations. I don't know what's going to become of Sara. I have no idea what I'm going to do about me and Jake's flat, where I'm going to live. I don't even know if I have a job anymore. I just haven't showed up to work.

But I know the truth and the smallest part of me is grateful for that. The rest of me is consumed by a pain I never imagined possible.

I guess there's nothing else to do now except wait and see how things unfold. But reading through your comments and messages have been more help than you can imagine, thank you thank you thank you.

And for anyone who has have ever experienced symptoms like Sara's, or has been around someone who is so visibly troubled, I beg of you: seek help before it's too late.

tl;dr: I had a four hour conversation with my mom, who not only knew about Sara and Jake, but informed me that they had shared a kiss a few months prior to the event. I am still in the hotel, still heart broken, and have no idea what to do next. The only saving grace is that Sara has agreed to treatment and will not be in my life for the foreseeable future.

Dec 26, 2015

Hi everyone!

I thought I would make a final update (to my original post and update) as I received a lot of messages over the last few days wondering how I am over the holiday period.

Once again, I'd like to thank you all for the outpouring of support I've received over the last month. The number of messages, links to help, and offers for a shoulder to cry on were overwhelming and touching. I apologise if I never got round to replying to them all, the last few weeks have been a blur. But I am eternally grateful nonetheless.

So, after my conversation with my mom (where I found out she had known about Jake and Sara) I went back to square one. I switched my phone off again, and retreated back into my hotel for a further 5 days. From the comments on my last post, I should clear up one thing: my mom hadn't known about Jake and Sara from the very beginning. Rather, Sara had told her about it at the time of Harry's sudden departure (meaning she had known a couple months before I did).

Eventually, I decided enough was enough and decided to call work. My boss wasn't angry, or even surprised, to hear from me. My mom had called him after our conversation and told him there had been a family emergency and I would be unavailable for the forseeable future. He advised I take to the end of the week, but would have to come to a meeting if I required any more time off work than I had already given myself. So my job was safe(ish) and I'm back at work and trying to get on with things.

After this, I went back to my parents. Sara was also home but holed up in her room. I went in to see her and she was up painting. As a number of you guessed, it is likely she has BPD, although my parents are waiting on a second opinion. She is going to counselling weekly, and seems slightly better. She broke down in tears when she saw me and we had a long long talk, where she spoke to me in depth about how truly consumed she was by her and Harry's toxic relationship. She understands it's for the best that it's over, but she describes the pain as "unrelenting: it hurt when he was with me, and it hurts now he's gone".

I know alot of you will feel disappointed that I haven't cut her or my mom out of my life for good. I still feel resentment in the pit of my stomach when I think about it, but truly, I blame Jake more than anyone else. Jake was with me for long enough to see some of Sara's behaviour. She's not well and he still chose to do what he did. It is a slow process, but she's my sister and I can't cut them out of my life forever. It will never be the same again, but maybe that's a good thing.

My dad, who had been newly informed on the proceedings, drove to my apartment and gathered some clothes and an overnight bag. Jake was not home, and my parents have not heard from him since I left. I have no idea where he is, and neither he nor his family have attempted any contact with me since this came out. His social media profiles have disappeared, and I have not attempted any contact with him, his family, or his friends. I began the slow process of telling my friends last week. I did not explain what happened, other than to say Jake was not the person I thought he was. They have all assumed cheating, but there is no reason for them to know who was involved.

I have switched back and forth between staying with my parents and sleeping at my apartment. I sleep on the sofa bed as the memories are too painful at the moment. I am in the process of looking into selling the place, however, this means contacting Jake at some point in the near future as the apartment is joint owned. I will cross that bridge when I feel a bit stronger.

Christmas day was a strange and sad one for both myself and Sara. But we spent it as a family, and for the few hours we were sat around eating and watching movies the pain was dulled even a small bit. As we were flicking through the various movies and TV episodes we'd recorded, I came across a scene that stuck with me, a scene that ended with the words: "la familia es todo".

I still spend most days with a hole in my heart, it hurts more than anything I've ever felt in my life...but it's getting better. I know I've got a long way to go, but for the first time I'm confident I'll get there.

Thank you for reading and here's to 2016.

tl;dr: Jake has disappeared without a trace. Sara is in treatment. My heart still hurts but I'm finally starting to get better.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

OOP When asked why she forgave her sister and not Jake

I was anticipating this response, and it's not unfair at all. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

It is extremely difficult to articulate the many emotions I feel neatly into a readable post on Reddit. There are days where I feel so overcome with hatred and shock that I almost find it difficult to breathe. Other days, it seems like a bad dream that I suppress long enough to be able to go to work, come home, eat, sleep, and do not much else.

Sara has not got away with anything. I will always hold her at arms length for this, and our relationship will likely never recover to the level where I can trust her fully. But it is truly difficult to cut out a family member. Maybe in the future, I'll find that I'm not able to move past this and I will end up removing her from my life. But as it stands, this is what I currently feel: more hatred towards Jake than her. It is a situation in flux, and what I may feel at the time of writing this post could be completely different tomorrow. I am also intending to seek counselling, which may change my perspective entirely. But for now, it is what it is.

Thank you for your well wishes.

&

Right now, for whatever reason, my heart is hurting more at Jake. All the memories I have of family days out ruined by Sara that he's witnessed, nights I've spent telling him about her, times I've defended her when he's told me she's crazy. I just can't understand how he would go there.

Then there's our life together. Our plans for our wedding, the memories we've shared, everything he was willing to throw away from someone that I believe he had no respect for.

Tomorrow I'll be angry at Sara all over again. But today, it's Jake. Like I said, it's a situation in flux and no one day has been the same so far when it comes to my emotions.

Thank you for taking so much time to share your thoughts with me, it's greatly appreciated and in time I will be able to process your words with a clearer mind.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is . She posted in

Do not comment on Original Posts. See rule 7. Also, this sub has a 7 day waiting period. Ergo, the newest update is 7 days old.

Mood Spoiler: OOP gets answers

Original : May 11, 2024

I 29F have a 5F with my ex 32M. We were engaged but never really planned to have kids before marriage or at least for the next few years. I was on the pill and he used protection sometimes but I ended up pregnant. Since it was unplanned. Abortion was on the table. He was more into making it work so both of us decided to keep the baby. I wasn't emotionally prepared but for him love is all it takes to make everything work. Fast forward 6 months he started to change. He would give me the silent treatment if I do something wrong. He wouldn't engage in any conversation about the baby and would just yell at me if I ask what's wrong. I was almost 8 months pregnant when he told me he's just not ready to be a father and can't do both things. It's either fatherhood or his career. I was scared to be a single mother so I told him it's fine I can take care of our baby and be a SAHM until things get better for him, but he refused and made it clear everything is over. Since the house was his I left and went to live with my mom until I found myself a place.

I gave birth to my baby girl and he never came to see her. His mother and sister were there for me and to this day they're still part of my daughter's life. As for him he gave up his parental rights and granted me full custody (legally) but was willing to contribute financially through child support (He voluntarily provides financial support in an amicable arrangement). I'm not proud of it but there are nights I called him just to ask him why did he do that to us. I wasn't even ready but seeing him happy and excited made me think we could make it work together. He never really answered my calls. We used to communicate through his mother or sister or email. I love my baby and won't ever see her as a mistake. I'm still doing my best to be the best mother she deserves. I have a good paying job now and everything is better than before.

Now here's the thing. After 5 years and when I finally feel my life got better and figured out my shit, he wants to get involved. He's been calling and texting me for a week now. He doesn't regret a thing and he's not asking. He's telling me that he has the right to see his daughter and be there for her. How can I trust him not to wake up one day and decide being in her life is a mistake and disappear again? He can do that to me but I just don't want my daughter to get hurt. I told him he can see her but not this way. He wants more than just to see her. He even threatened me if I don't agree then he has no problem telling her in the future how I'm the reason she grew up without a father.

His mother and even my mother want me to just let him into my daughter's life with no exceptions. And I'm not comfortable doing that because I know him. WIBTA if I decide on what's best for our daughter or just suck it up and let him in?

Edit: just wanted to mention English isn't my first language, so sorry if there are any errors. Also sorry if this is a bit long but I wanted to give you all the details.

Relevant Comments:

What the hell changed:

Exactly, I don't know how. He never answered my calls for two years and never wanted to see her for 5 years and now out of nowhere he's blowing up my phone demanding a relationship with her and expecting me to just let him in. Thank you for the advice 🙌🏻

Downvoted Comment:

Commenter: I take it that you trust your mother, that she knows everything that happened just as much as you do, that you don't think she has any malice towards you or your daughter.

If that is the case then it should at least give you pause to question why it is she does not agree with you on this matter and you should at least speak to her and ask her what her reasons are.

This has nothing to do with what you think he deserves. This is entirely about would it be beneficial for your daughter to have a positive relationship with her father and to have him as a presence in her life. You have no right to deny that to your child and if he does tell her you are the reason she grew up without a father, that will be 100% the truth.

OOP: My mother hates to see her daughter being a single mom. I'll be honest here. my family felt ashamed to have a pregnant daughter outside of marriage. she not only wants him back in my daughter's life but she also wishes to see us back together. As for his mother. It's HIS mother I don't need to say more.

Update : May 13

He didn't stop with the calls and texts and I read some of the comments wondering why he suddenly wants to be in my daughter's life so I agreed to meet up with him and discuss everything yesterday. We talked for about 30 mins. 30 mins of me trying to explain to him that he literally gave up his parental rights years ago and there's no need for threatening since he legally has no right to see her if I don't allow him. While he was focused on expressing how I haven't changed and complimenting my body. His comments became too much so I decided to just leave but I noticed he was wearing a ring on his right hand and didn't hesitate to ask him about it. He said he proposed a few weeks ago but he thinks he rushed things. I asked him if she knows about my daughter and if this is why he's here. He said no she still doesn't know and he genuinely wants to be part of his daughter's life. He basically spent 30 mins flirting with no shame that he's engaged and showed no sign of being genuinely interested in getting involved. I told him to just forget about my daughter but if he wants to we can see a judge and they can laugh at him. He threatened to cut financial support and I made it clear I never really needed his help. Sending me $1000 once or twice a year with his sister was already no help and I can give back his money if he wants to.

Now I know what I did wrong but it was the only way to get the answer I needed. On my way home I called his sister and lied about how things went. I said that he told me everything and how his fiancée encourages him to be a better person and I think that's why he wants in which is a good thing. His sister told me everything I needed to know. How his fiancée has a good heart and how she didn't like it when she discovered that he has a daughter but never saw her before. She basically wouldn't have said yes if he didn't promise to try and fix things. So both his mother and sister knew the reason he wanted to get back into my daughter's life and his mother encouraged me to let him in without even being honest with me.

So all this wasn't about my daughter. It was about him and impressing his fiancée who was horrified that he wants nothing to do with his daughter. My mother gets it now but his mother called the same day asking what's the plan now. I told her there's no plan. He could have just given me full custody but he wanted nothing to do with her to the point he decided to sign away his rights. And he seemed already fine with the relationship they have which is none. She tried to make me consider letting him in because at the end it's my daughter's decision. My daughter is 5 years old what decision?? Anyway I made it clear to her that both her and her daughter legally aren't my child's family and from now on there will be no alone time with her. And if they keep pressing me I can easily cut them out.

I will discuss this with a lawyer though. I have everything documented and I'm sure he doesn't have a leg to stand on but still. Just in case he tries something.

And let me show you some of his texts that I'm very tempted to get his fiancée's number and send her some screenshots. English isn't our first language so I translated them for you

"Who sees you now would never tell you weren't ready for this. you look happier"

"You know I really didn't know how much I missed you until I saw you today"

"Good night beautiful kiss (my daughter's name) for me"

I don't know if I'm just overreacting but if my fiancé texts his ex this way. I for sure won't find it acceptable.

By the way with him back. I realized that I never really dealt with the way he broke my heart. Maybe I cried but I had to figure out my life as soon as I could for the sake of my daughter. When I gave birth all I started thinking about was my daughter. Even the nights I called him it was never to ask about 'me' it was always about 'us'. I was scared and not ready to be a mom. And now that I'm a mother I've never felt this strong. I don't know what I'm trying to say here but I'm glad how my life turned out.

Thank you for the advice. I'm glad I gathered the courage to see him. I feel so much better. At least now I know I don't have to worry about him shaking my baby's life up 🙌🏻🤍🤍

Relevant Comments:

Commenter: Im sorry you have to deal with this jerk op. So many people in your og post called it. He’s only interested in your daughter because of his new woman

Honesty block him and go very lc with his family because they are not looking out for your or your daughters best interest

OOP: Thank you. I'm planning to do that but he's still not done with the threats about telling lies to my daughter. I'm trying to gather everything I can before I block him.

Commenter: Ask the sister for the fiancée's number, say he forgot to give it to you.

Something tells me you'll be bonding over his abandoned children in a few years.

OOP: Love the idea🙌🏻 shared trauma makes for great bounding material 😂🙌🏻🤍

So a boy has their nails painted at school a bright pink and it looks cute . If it were girls painting each others' nails then it's fine, though. Some think mama bear should not worry about some pink nail polish while others are in equal protest as the mama bear.

Parents and the childless jump into this fray on both sides as we take a look at a classic gender stereotype of boys need to look and act like boys which includes not painting your fingernails.

Those in support weren't really questioned:

Wearing girly things does not affect the child.

The result is likely that your brother is more comfortable in his masculinity than the weirdos who have a problem with this.

I agree with this. It actually builds inner confidence (not caring what others think).

Having your nails done should not be a gendered thing

I grew up on a farm and when I was a kid it was fairly common for many of my uncles, neighbors, etc to get manicures. Farm work is hard on yout hands and manicures helped prevent things like infected cuticles and split nails and stuff. I'm genuinely curious how many of them still do it with the most recent bout of culture war nonsense.

We should stop caring about the societal perceptions of appropriate gender attire

Those against, however, were:

Representing the parents

Just admit you're a bigot.

Do you have kids? Are you even dating anyone with the prospect of having kids?

Sitting right next to my GF who raised three kids. She says you're full of shit. Kids like sparkles, even boys. Stifling creativity just so you can be a bigot, that's you.

Painting nails turns them gay:

Did I say anything about turning kids gay?

No, but the fact that you specifically mentioned being pissed about your son having nail polish told us everything we need to know about your fragility and preconceived notions about what a “real boy” should be into. Don’t play dumb.

Masculinity called into question

Dad's fragile masculinity is threatened hard.

Where did they make him dress up?

Can you read? Do you have eyes? Or are you just being purposely obtuse?

I don't see a single mention of clothing in the original image

Ok so the latter. Weird ass

The future children of the US are doomed

Agreed, their so horrible. No one should touch your child and do anything like this without your permission as a parent. These people bias is causing them to spread hate when parents should have a say in what happens to their child. It’s like how dare this black family have a preference to require the school ask their permission before doing anything to their child’s body, who is too young to provide consent. Reminds me of the case a while back, young black girl girl school just cuts her hair after they claim it was her request. The parents were livid and they have a right to be.

She said it would be OK if the girls painted their nails. I.e. if she had a daughter she would be fine with the daughter's nails being painted. She doesn't have an issue with the school painting kids' nails, she has an issue with the school painting a BOY'S nails, and there's literally zero logical reason for that

Having your son's nails painted is racism

If you see no problem with nail polish, then you're racist. Yeah, that logic checks out. /s

It's up to the parents to decide for the child

Imagine having a child and letting them make their own decisions about something so inconsequential

Clearly you don't have kids

I’ve got kids. Doesn’t bother me a bit. I fully understand others will make decisions for them while they were at school (in their best interest) and if my child chose (that is key - CHOSE) to try something like this, it would not be an issue in the least.

dude is a flat earther who doesn't believe in gravity. lol...ignore him.

Edit: I had some replies in the markdown quotes too but I guess reddit didnt like that and didnt save my draft so rip me

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

Thanks to for finding this BORU

- 28th April 2024

- 10th May 2024

1 New Update

- - 18th May 2024

My son [19M] filed harassment charges against me and my husband because we were making him go to college

Me and my son moved to US last year. I was a single mom for 16 yrs before I met and then married my husband. I saved up money so he can go to college. Where I came from, college is very important. We moved to a small town and my son found new friends. These friends in my opinion were not a good influence. I am used to polite and academically oriented kids back home. These new friends of his make fun of his books and his plans of going to college.

Before his HS graduation, me and my husband took him to several unis in the state so he could get a feel for which one he would like to go to. Then after he graduated from HS, I told him I have about $20k saved up for college. He said it is not going to fit because tuition is pretty expensive nowadays. I suggested he can just go to a community college 20 mins away and live at home to save money. He agreed and I gave him access to the fund (joint account).

Long story short, he did not enroll himself and instead started partying a lot and used the money on expensive dates with his gf. He moved out and stopped talking to me. I worked hard to save that up for more than a decade and I am upset that he wasted it in less than a year. Me and my husband went to his place and asked that he pay me back since it is specifically for college and not "fun money".

He called the police and filed harassment charges. I told the police to review the cctv footage because the whole time I was talking to him through his ring cam, I was calm and reasonable and my husband was just standing behind me not saying anything. I was outside the door talking, he never even opened the door to talk to me face to face. The police said there's nothing he can do if my son and his gf felt "harassed", he can file a restraining order if he wants to.

Back home, this is unforgivable to treat your parent like this. But here in US, I was treated almost like a criminal. My sister in law said it is my fault for confronting him and that the money is his to spend since I made him a joint account owner. Am I wrong?

Edit: People cursing me because I said something about wanting to throw my chancla on my son's face, to be clear I have never laid my hands or my flip flops on him ever. But after what he did, my intrusive thoughts wants me to throw it but of course I won't. If he called the cops on me just because I want to talk to him, what more if I threw my flip flops on his face??

His relationship with me before moving to US was fine. He knew my struggle as a single mom and he always try to help me around the house. I was not strict at all he was free to go out with friends anytime. He was even thrilled to have a father figure and my husband always try to make him feel included in everything.

Comments

ManufacturerAny835

Lesson learned never give someone access to money unless you’re ok with them running away with it

OOP: He was a good boy before moving here. I thought he knew my struggles and how much I sacrificed to save money. I just thought he would never betray me like this.

dingdongsbtchs

Honestly I think a lot of parents don’t realize the depth of their children and forget that just because you think of them as one way doesn’t mean they don’t have other layers that can make them a different person. Sadly your son has found some less than savory friends to surround himself with and now he has to live with the decision he made. I honestly wouldn’t offer help for university again and would leave communication up to him. Also has there been any questions or discussion of potential drug use??

2workigo

The money is gone. And since he was a joint account holder and a legal adult, there’s nothing to be done except refuse to help him financially anymore. Let him figure it out on his own from now on. The friends he had will likely drift away now that he no longer has a fat bank account to fund their party lifestyle.

Treacle_Moon

Her biggest fault is waiting till it was all gone to do something about it. She had joint access. She could have stepped in long before now and tried to deal with it. Too little too late unfortunately.

Update - 12 days later

I still have not heard from my son and I don't expect him to reach out. But his gf's mother has called me asking if my house is still open to him. I asked her why, it turns out he hasn't paid his share of the last month's rent and his gf had to pay it for him.

I said it is not my problem and he is not welcome anymore in my house since he is an adult. The gf's mom said "what kind of mother would not extend help to his teenage son?". She further insulted me and said now she knows why he left me.

At this point I really don't care anymore. I tried to help him get a good start in life but he wasted it. Aside from the $20k, he lived rent free in the house, free food, free phone, car, gas money, and I pay all the utility bills and his health insurance. All I asked is that he focus on his studies. Finish at least an associate's degree so he can get a decent job and be fully independent from me asap.

For some who asked why college is so important to me, as an immigrant, we are held under certain standards. We have to prove to USCIS that we will not become a public charge -- meaning we won't rely on any government aid. I want him to be able to be a good immigrant and become productive. I don't even know if he can become a citizen if he makes below poverty income. I was just trying to make sure he gets to live a good life.

Some of you asked if he even wanted go to to college. Back when we were in our home country, he begged me to pls send him to college no matter what.

P.S. The harassment charge was closed for lack of evidence of harassment, a lot of what he said were lies.

Edit: Another thing that gave me chills was when he moved out it was the middle of the night and me and my husband were both asleep. My son left the front door hanging open (I saw it in the camera). We live in a small town but there's a lot of crime in our area, someone could have gone in and done something bad.

Comments

bluedreamer62

Some people just have to learn the hard way, his gf probably had a good time with him spending his college fund now 5hat it’s gone the fun is over. So comes the reality.

PoliteCanadian2

So you’re saying this is the Find Out stage that follows the Fuck Around stage?

Sharp_Mathematician6

Yep

SnooWords4839

His GF's mom has no right to bitch you out. Your son left, spend his college fund and now has to figure out how to adult. You do not owe him anything at this point.

ladyalcove

She's just calling her out because she's realizing that now she has to take care of this bum.

butterfly-garden

Yup. She, too, is in the Find Out stage.

** New Update**

Update 2 - 8 days later

His girlfriend's mom called me again today and basically handed the phone to my son to "sort it out between us". I let him just talk and tell me what is on his mind. Here's a summary of his point of view:

• He felt like I deprived him of a lot of things growing up. I couldn't buy him an Xbox/playstation, iphone, or anything a teenager wants when we were in our home country. I can't afford it. Back then I was making $1k a month and saving 20% of it for his college fund and whatever was left was for us to live on. I was helping my parents too with some groceries so money was really really tight. When I look back now, I don't know how I made it all fit.

• He felt so small because his clothes were hand me downs from cousins or just cheap clothes I bought from tianguis.

• He said I was not supportive unlike his friend's parents. Some of his friends have wealthy parents who bought their sons a house and never had to go to college or think about their future because they will inherit the family farm anyway. I have no generational wealth to be that supportive. I wish I have.

• He said I have so much house rules. Yes I do. I want him to wash his plates after eating (I used to do it for him), clean his room and keep it tidy, make sure the windows are tightly shut in winter, keep the thermostat at 68 during winter to save electricity, come home at 11pm or else the house will be double locked from the inside for my safety (because my husband drives a truck and not home at night most the time). I also told him before that since he has a part time job, he can't use my credit card for anything but emergency anymore, but he still used it sometimes anyway (card's been frozen since he moved out).

• I asked him why file charges when I only wanted some explanation from him. He said he don't want to inconvenience his gf and filing charges is the easiest way to get me to stop trying to talk to him.

So basically he felt deprived as a kid and that he thinks he was just healing his inner child when he spent the money. He said his friends told him I owe that to him for bringing him to this world. He thinks that I should not have a child if I can't afford these things.

I asked him why he left the door open that night. He went silent for a few seconds then said "I just thought that if the house get robbed, I could just say I cashed the money from the bank and the robbers must have found it". Unbelievable.

At this point I was so emotional and I was a crying mess. I told him I am deeply sorry that I was his mom and that he had to grow up feeling deprived because I was poor. Then he said "Oh stop with your guilt tripping, you are saying that to make me feel bad.

Oh and he also said he hates it when . I don't yell like that lady but I pretty much bug him to get up and help me set the table. I never get a response so I had to raise my voice higher. He said I was so rude. But he grew up with this. This is me being me. All moms back home do this. Al of a sudden he is comparing me to his mom's friends. In our culture we want food to be eaten while it is fresh from the stove. I spent 1 hr cooking after a long day at work, the least you can do is help me set the table and eat my food while it's nice and warm.

I hung up. My heart is broken in so much pieces. Am I wrong?

Comments

Whitewitchie

He has a chip on both shoulders. Leave him be. It's despicable he left the door open so you were vulnerable to burglars. Absolutely no consideration for your safety at all.

Mtndrums

Dude's a spoiled brat, and an idiot to not see his "friends" were using him. You need to cut him off and let him figure things out.

dublos

Not spoiled. Mom could not spoil him.

Entitled.

This child believes he's entitled to the same things his friends grew up with, even though his parents provided the best they could provide.

your son has made his bed. Let him sleep in it.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP. Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not The OOP, OOP is

I run a DnD group with kids aged 7-11 at my local YMCA, and some parents are trying to get the game outright banned. I have to have a meeting with both parents and HR Department and effectively present my case. Please help!

Originally posted to

Thanks to for suggesting this BoRU

EDITORS NOTE: because it's mentioned and some may not remember or been born when it happened, a quick synopsis of the satanic panic

The Satanic panic is a moral panic consisting of over 12,000 unsubstantiated cases of Satanic ritual abuse (SRA, sometimes known as ritual abuse, ritualistic abuse, organized abuse, or sadistic ritual abuse) starting in the United States in the 1980s, spreading throughout many parts of the world by the late 1990s, and persisting today.

  May 9, 2024

Sorry if this is a longer post, but important context below ⬇️

So yeah I'm a program coordinator at our local YMCA and I run an after-school program (effectively am a glorified babysitter hahaha). This past school year I passively mentioned that I play a lot of DnD when one of the kids asked me if I had any plans that weekend, and it totally piqued their interest when I explained to them what the game was like/about. Naturally they asked if they could try and play and I figured sure why not, I'll write a fun and fam friendly one-shot for them.

They all absolutely loved it. It's turned into a proper campaign with about 7 of the 24 kids me and my coworkers look after consistently playing. I've had to limit the sessions to just 1-2 days of the 5 day school week, because I have other kids too that aren't interested in it, and I obviously still need to give them attention and interaction as well (and as you know DnD can be a very engaged and attention demanding). I thought this was a fair compromise. Days that it's nice outside we are always out running around, being active, playing sports -- but if it's a rainy day, or on our weekly Friday Movie Day, we generally play. It's been such a blast sharing something I love so deeply with kids who I care about so much.

So here comes the issue:

Almost every parent of the core group that plays loves that we are doing this (one even plays weekly and we bonded over it haha), but there is one child whose parents certainly do not; they want their kid just constantly active and engaged and playing sports, not playing "silly make believe", which I guess I get to a degree because this is kinda the MO of the YMCA traditionally; healthy active living.

I've explained that most days of the week we do just that, and that this is something we only do on Fridays or rain days when we are stuck inside, but they aren't budging. I think they have a misguided idea of the game and what it is, or maybe they are just fundamentally against it, I'm not sure. I don't think it's to the level of like the era of thought where media and the masses thought DnD was some kind of satanic game, but I feel like there could certainly be a bit of that.

Anyway they want it to stop immediately. I've told them I'm not forcing anyone to play, and that if they really feel that way they are within their rights to tell their child they don't want him playing, but they are trying to take it a step farther and get it banned. ALSO I would feel horrible if this child were forbade from playing while all his friends have a blast doing so. Just doesn't seem right.

I understand that it's a game that can involve more mature themes and gameplay, and probably isn't reeeeeeeeally for super young folk, but I feel the way I'm running it mitigates this for the most part: there's no PVP (so no bullying can happen), I'm dealing with waaaaaay less serious themes and stakes, and I don't even include any circumstances where they fight any other humanoids -- strictly just heroes fighting big bad monsters and saving towns. You know the drill.

So yeah long story short(ish) the parents of the one child have called a meeting with HR to discuss the playing of this game at the YMCA. I have it on Sunday. I'm confident I'm gonna have to effectively state my case and explain why I think this is not only an okay thing to be doing, but actually in fact a good thing. I don't know if I'll be able to fully sway them if their mind is already made up, all I can do is just speak my truth haha.

I do whole-heartedly think this game can be super beneficial for young folk. I'll spare you my long form thoughts, but between the teamwork and communication required and rewarded, the problem solving (both ethically and logically and mathematically), AND the improvisation emphasized, I think it stimulates a young mind very well. Lets them escape their own world for a bit and take agency and feel they have control, something young people so desperately desire.

So in conclusion, I'm kinda just writing this to get it off of my chest and vent, BUT I guess my questions would be:

• do you have any advice on how to properly communicate my points on why this game can be beneficial for young minds?

• Do you know of any other benefits I'm missing?

• have you ever had experiences similar to this?

Or maybe you disagree with me and think I'm out of line here, which is totally fair too. Just looking to start some dialogue.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

Thackebr

I know it is a hassle, but if you get to keep Dnd, you might want to start requiring permission slips. That way, you could avoid this in the future.

The_Law_Of_Pizza

This will make it less likely for the OP to get a surprise angry parent, but I don't like the precedent of demanding permission slips for a mundane board game.

It sets up an expectation that D&D is different in some way, and gives ammunition to these weirdos who are still trapped in the Satanic Panic - it lets them point to the permission slips and say, "Look, even your own policies admit that this is something to be hidden behind barriers and parental approval."

At a certain point we have to stand up to these people in society and tell them that they're being ridiculous and that we won't concede to their demands under any circumstances. That takes a great deal of backbone by the YMCA administration, though.

~

probloodmagic

Geez. Really putting the "C" in YMCA. I imagine looking into how people fought back during the "Satanic Panic" might provide some good advice for this.

had a great comment about handling a new round of the satanic panic

Many offered sites that share good info about why DnD is helpful and beneficial to kids

thatdanglion

You can point the leadership and parents to the numerous studies showing the many ways playing D&D is beneficial for kids, too.

g3rmb0y

I just looked through this thread, there's a ton of great stuff here.

Some additional good orgs that talk about the therapy side are: (That's me)

dgendbreau

D&D has also been shown to be useful in teaching kids about social skills, creative writing, theory of mind, mental math, team work, problem solving etc.

  May 13, 2024

Made a post a few days ago about how I run a DnD campaign for some kids in an after-school program I run for the YMCA, and subsequently how the parents of one of the kids was trying to get the game banned and whole operation shut down. I wasn't sure the best way to make an update, but I linked the whole original post above so you can have a read if you'd like ^

So firstly genuine genuine genuine big thanks to everyone who took the time to read and respond with input and suggestions. It means a ton and really helped a lot. So I'm just gonna jump right in with what happened.

Firstly, I took the advice about getting testimonies from parents who were super happy that I was playing this game with their kids -- we weren't allowed to have outside visitors involved in the actual meeting with HR, but I got emails and messages from mostly every parent (besides the one complaining about it lmao) to voice their support and why they think this is not a harmful thing, and in fact actually a good thing. I really think this helped a lot and was a big factor, so thanks everyone who suggested. It's not something I would've thought to do on my own ahahah.

I didn't want to come in toooooo heavy with the articles and very clear scientific proof about the benefits of developing minds playing TTRPGs', because (as it turned out) this was actually more just conversational and "pleasant" than I thought it was gonna be, at least from HRs side. I did mention to them the multiple studies done on this exact scenario, but it turned out I didn't even really need them. There were definitely moments of tension, but this was a more civil conversation than I anticipated from all parties involved. I'm not sure if it was the fact that the parents who complained had to talk to me in person WITH my bosses and HR reps present and it calmed them down a bit? But yeah anyway.

I wish it was a more dramatic story, but basically I just levelled with them person to person.

People who said they were betting on it being a Christian, satanic-panic angle: you were right, mostly anyway. As in, that was definitely a main part of their argument. They are in fact Christian and were concerned, but it was really coming from a place of ignorance about what this game is about, and they specifically didn't understand the fact that the DM (me) can entirely control what the contents of it is. I'm assuming they just googled DnD and probably saw some things they didn't agree with, but once I explained that the way we were playing it included no demon spawn or worshipping, or any killing of other humans, or allowing of murder-hobo activity, they softened up a bit. I told them it's a strictly G/PG rated experience that I'm curating for them. And of course I explained the social and academic benefits of DnD, and how much of a bonding activity this is for the group, and how much their son in particular loves it. This helped big time.

Ironically, it was their other argument about wanting active engagement for their child (ie; sports lol) that was a little harder to combat. From their and HRs perspective, this whole program and the YMCAs MO IS in fact healthy active engagement. I explained that most days of the week we are doing just that. I'm a tennis instructor as well and have played sports all my life (and they know this), so I tried to assure them that I get their child a SOLID amount of engagement (plus free tennis lessons effectively haha). I'll save you the whole back and forth, but this was a majority of our 45 minute meeting.

Im trying to wrap this up with a bow but not sure exactly how, so I'll just finish with the bullet points from the end of the discussion:

• The game is not banned! HOORAY HOORAY!

• I am now only allowed to play it with them once a week (on Friday), but all things considered I'll take this as a win!

• and best of all, the complained parents are letting their kid continue to play!!!! I'm sending them a detailed summary of the contents of my game so they can look it over, but they said with it now "officially" only being once a week, and with a better understanding of what it actually is, they will let him to continue to play. I'm so unbelievably happy.

So boom. Happy ending. Again big thanks to everyone for giving their advice and linking resources; it helped so much and meant a lot. This is a big win for "the community" I feel, at the risk of sounding too corny. You are all the best. I love this game so much 🥹

RELEVANT COMMENTS

OOP explains how they made DnD G/PG rated

So the method I've taken is that this is mainly an explorative and mystery solving campaign. There is combat occasionally, but it's heeeeeavy on the RP aspect of these aforementioned things (aka 7 kids screaming over each other lmao)

I briefly mentioned in the previous post that when I do involve combat I don't include any that js player versus any humanoids -- so no "killing" of bandits or raiders or pirates or anything resembling, it's strictly taking out big bad monsters, or a big spider/bats/owlbear or whatever when it does happen. This takes a big amount of the potential nastiness out: Timmy cant go home saying "Mom I killed 4 dudes today!", regardless if he understands the deeply political and socio-economic rooted reasons why it may be justified he did that 🙄 hahahah.

So yeah eliminated that entirely, strayed away from words like "kill" or "dead" or certainly "murdered", and have a very very "heroes save the town from mishaps" type adventure. For a quick example our last plot hook/beat (which ended up taking up like 3 Fridays because of how long it can take with young kids hahaha) involved them stumbling into a town and discovering that it holds the map to an ancient treasure that is rumoured to be buried in a magical woods nearby. Maaaaaany puzzles and skill checks later they found it deep in the woods by a magic tree and had to answer (very basic) riddles from the speaking and living tree in order to get access to it. They succeeded and absolutely loved it and there was no combat at all.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

Banned 1 year ago due to being unmoderated.

This was first posted in by

The updates were posted by to her own page

Apr 22nd, 2024

Let's just start by saying that I (24M) love my girlfriend, "Aaliyah", (20F) very much. She's a super hard working girl, and she spends a lot of her time on classes trying to get the highest grades possible for applying to nursing school in the near future. When she's not doing that, she's doing chores or cutting down on her ever growing to-do list. And when she's not doing THAT she's spending 2 hours a day playing the Sims. This is where the problem comes in.

After all the stuff she does, Aaliyah doesn't have as much time to spend with me as she could. She's a perfectionist too, so when she's doing the more serious stuff like school, she puts in more effort than necessary, which is time consuming. It really got to me that even knowing this, she'll spend so much time on the Sims. It's something frivolous she's doing when we already only get so little time together. She's also an adult, so essentially playing digital dolls almost every day is kind of something she ought to grow out of by now. I decided to step in and have her cut back on this. I obviously didn't delete the whole game, but I figured deleting the little save files she was working on would deter her from spending so much time on it.

That decision backfired tremendously. When she logged on to her game she thought there was some glitch going on and kept restarting it until I explained to her that I removed the saves. She absolutely flipped out on me, saying she'd been playing in that save file since like 2017 and I had ruined years of game progress. (Sims isn't even a goaled game???) I told her she was overreacting, because she still HAS the game and she could just remake her same little characters if it mattered so much, but it doesn't need to and maybe now she can focus on more adult interests, like loved ones.

Basically she left immediately, saying she was so stupid to leave her gaming laptop at my place, and now she won't answer my calls. I know that this is a total overreaction, but I started to feel a little bad once I realized it may not be as easy to redo her characters as I initially thought. So, AITA for deleting my girlfriend's Sims saves?

TL;DR: My girlfriend is obsessed with the Sims, so to deter her from playing it so much I deleted her save files. She blew up at me. AITAH?

Did you really think I wouldn't find this post? Did you really think I wouldn't see how you've been talking about me? I shudder to think what you've said in what you deleted.

Why don't you tell them the real story? About how you not only deleted the save files, but also hammered the backup thumb drive so hard there's a dent on your countertop now while I cried for you to stop? Why don't you tell them about how you tag along to my SI group after Bio because you don't want me to be out of your sight? Why don't you tell them about how my best friend who's so-called "in love" with me literally lives in another state and only visits once or twice a year? Why don't you tell them about how when my mother was sick a few months ago, you were blowing up my line all day every day for attention knowing I was her primary caregiver 24/7? Why are you telling them you work full-time or that you manage a grocery store when you part-time manage the fast food place inside it?

I want you to fucking take this to heart when I say this, but I have genuinely been so much worse off for knowing you. You've destroyed my self esteem with your constant criticisms of what I enjoy, you've controlled me in every way for as long as I've known you, you don't understand boundaries or when no means no, your racist fucking family treats me like DOG SHIT, and your friends are equally racist punk bitch assholes. You ruined something I've spent YEARS of my life growing up with and I could never bring myself to forgive and forget that, no matter how much love I've poured into you. I hate you for what you did to me, and for what you've been doing. I mean that.

I'm gonna make this so, so crystal clear since you didn't understand it the first time: WE ARE THROUGH. GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Apr 25th, 2024

Hi there! "Aaliyah" here from the infamous post about my Sims 4 saves getting deleted! I just wanted to put a little placeholder update on my page for anyone who's read that post.

• Please note that I have turned off the ability to search my username in app because, although I did want people to hear the whole story at first, the social media response has been a bit overwhelming. I'm just a regular person and I didn't know this would get publicized to this extent, so please be kind.

All that said, update/missing info here:

Our Ages: For one, there was some confusion about when my ex and I got together. We knew each other all our lives since our families are close, but we started dating when I was 12 and he was 16. We actually have a 5 year age gap (I'm newly 20 and he turns 25 this year). Hope that clears it up!

Missing Info: Not only did he delete the saves and clear the recycling bin, he pulled out my backup drive and smashed it with a hammer once he realized I was upset that he'd done the first two things. He lied about not knowing it was such a detailed game, because I talked to him about it tons of times before. This was not a matter of spending time together - we regularly spent hours of every day with each other. He would insist to come along to any class or class related activity that he wouldn't get kicked out of, like Bio study group. I gave him as much attention as I possibly could, but it was never, ever enough. Summer is in just 3 weeks, so we would've had time then. He was just being awful to me. He is a generally jealous, overprotective, condescending person, he pressured me into sexual activities throughout our relationship, and his friends and family were all incredibly racist to me. It's past time for him to be gone from my life, and I'm still coming to terms with all the ways he has wrecked me...

Clearing Up Some Questions: My 7 year save existed across three laptops over time, so those who were skeptical of it being able to survive on one for so long were right! I did have a password on my gaming laptop - he memorized it to get in. He mentioned that I said I was dumb for leaving my laptop at his place - I said that because he's done something similar before when I left my phone unattended. He went through it, promised never to again, only for me to find out months later that he'd been logged into my Instagram account and was reading my messages daily. Some people wondered why I have no mention of him on my page - that's because I was always on edge with him going through my phone, so I deleted anything about him that I'd post. In my comment history 6 months ago, there are two replies I made under a post about him forcing me to kiss him at stoplights. I'm sorry that this is the only remnant of proof that I've been with him, I tried to cover my tracks to avoid his anger.

Placeholder Update: I was too anxious to try to retrieve the lost saves myself, so I'm going to a local tech shop in a few days to see what the professionals can do, and the laptop will remain off until then. I've looked into a restraining order recently, and ultimately it looks like I won't be able to do much as of now but collect evidence and get cameras installed around my home. I don't go out in public alone anymore, and I am never without a trusted person.

I appreciate all the people who have felt my hurt with me and/or sent me well wishes! I ask that no one else offers me money, I won't accept it. Lastly, this is my lived experience, not just internet drama, so please be considerate.❤

May 2nd, 2024

That's it!!! Sorry for taking a while to tell everyone, I went to a local tech shop a few days ago and they helped me to recover everything!!! I hadn't had the chance to update due to finals season, I'm typing this on my way to class!🥲 But YESSS, for anyone still wondering, I got everything back!!!❤

I am not the original poster. Please do not contact or comment on linked posts

I am not The OOP, OOP is

GM Locked Me Out Of Interacting With Other Players Because I Got Confused

Originally posted to

TRIGGER WARNING: manipulation, controlling behavior, sexism

  March 6, 2024

I'm a player in a tabletop RPG campaign and I just wanted to vent about this session. The GM uses a "rules light" homebrew system and it's his homebrew world as well. He's been doing this campaign for years now, but I just joined through a mutual friend after another player left recently.

When I joined the campaign, the GM had told me he wanted me to be from a particular country as a prince, and since it was his homebrewed world, I went with it. The country I'm a prince of is a massive empire that has conquered many lands. I wanted to be a morally good character so I made up a backstory where my prince had a secret romance with a commoner so it gave me more empathy and understanding than my other royal peers would have. Then in session 1, he had the commoner immediately break up with me since the players were all leaving the city session 1.

Several sessions later, there is a carnival being hosted in the empire and all the players are attending. The players split up and my part began with my character watching as a mentally handicap child was put in the dunk tank and was being dunked against his will. So I had my character help the child and stop the game (This isn't relevant to the larger story but I thought it was really weird). Then I am told I have to go to the "main stage" which is just a strip club seemingly. And of course, walking around topless serving drinks is my character's commoner love interest that I made in session 0. The GM laughs a bit and comments, "Isn't it funny? Look at what your ex has to do without you." I have my character give her the shirt off his back and we go to the outskirts of the carnival to find a quiet place to talk, but then the carnival was ambushed by some enemies as arrows and fire rained down on the parade.

Suddenly, my character and his ex are teleported back to the main stage and the GM starts jumping back and forth between all the player characters asking what we want to do without any sort of initiative and if we don't respond quickly enough he skips to another player. I ask, "What direction are the arrows coming from?" GM, "You can't tell". "Which direction to the palace?" I ask. "You don't know," he tells me. I'm honestly genuinely confused about what to do here and my mind goes blank, but then the GM has my bodyguard (a Brienne of Tarth type) tell me to follow her so I do. As he cuts back and forth, another player loses his mom in the chaos, I tell GM, "I want to help him find his mom." "You can't see him" GM tells me. Then I ended up surrounded by 12 ambushers in the "Pleasure Gardens". GM asked what I would do. I say since the carnival is burning, I look for a piece of wood on fire and since it's the pleasure gardens maybe there's some oil I can spill and light on fire to separate myself, my bodyguard, and ex who are all with me from the ambushers. He tells me there's no oil and then I'm held down by the men. I tried to escape, but he says I failed (he just did a dice roll behind his screen and didn't tell me the results). I am then hogtied by the ambushers with my bodyguard and ex and thrown in a cart. Meanwhile, the other two players have stolen a cart and are escaping. I try to do a goofy wave as my character is tied up towards my companions and he just says, the carts never pass each other so the other players don't see you. Before the session ends he tells me my bodyguard is dead.

After the session, I think my body language showed I was a bit bummed. So GM pipes in, "You want to know why you failed that encounter?" He proceeded to tell me it was because I followed my bodyguard and there was no way a woman could have protected me and I needed to make the choice instead. Some of the other players chimed in and said it was surprising my bodyguard failed since in the lore she was a 20-year veteran who survived "The Great War". The GM keeps defending his choice. Then he started making self-deprecating jokes about how he just sucks then and he's the worst GM ever until the other players all reassure him it's fine. I kind of just sat there shell-shocked.

His system reduces dice rolls to a rarity and he does them all himself as a "way to keep tension". I'm honestly more about hanging out with my friends than judging the quality of any campaign or system but this was my first "combat" of any sort in the campaign and I just felt so helpless in this system and it was frustrating. Plus there are no insight or persuasion rolls, just what the GM claims "my character would know" and "how his NPCs would act". So I'm not sure how I was supposed to handle this encounter. Being a GM myself, I thought he was using my bodyguard character to get me back on track, but I thought wrong. I honestly wouldn't have minded if he was just railroading me for a plot point, but him trying to manipulate me and saying his hands were tied when he essentially locked me out of interacting with the other players for the rest of the session is what bothers me the most.

Edit: Changed gaslighting to manipulating since I was using the term wrong and don't want to dilute it's meaning.

  March 20, 2024

This is an update from

One of my friends in the group reached out to me and asked me to not leave the group. He told me there were only 2 sessions left and asked me to stick around as a favor to him. I told him I'd reach out to GM and see if we could get on the same page. So I texted the GM and told him I wanted to talk because I had some concerns after the way everything went down last session. He was down and we talked on the phone a couple of days later. To my surprise, the first thing he did was profusely apologize. I hadn't been responding in our group chat, partly because I was mad and partly because my partner had a death in her family. I guess me not responding caused him to dwell on the last session a bunch. He said he was going to retcon my bodyguard's death and keep her alive. I even told him that the treatment of women in the campaign was bad and that it was making the story worse, he told me that it is something that he can work on being better about too. I was surprised, but all this gave me a lot of optimism for this conversation.

I was honest and I told him that his homebrew system is very difficult for me since I don't have a character sheet. So my character doesn't have abilities, he doesn't level up, and I can't do things like roll investigate or perception rolls which makes it hard for me to make informed decisions. I told him it makes me very risk adverse because I don't have things like HP to even know if I'm in danger. He responded to this by telling me I shouldn't worry about that because his GM style rewards me if I roleplay well enough. He went on to say he hates systems with things like perception rolls because that's "Not how real life works".

I also lamented the fact that I also don't get to interact with the other players much. I didn't mention this in my first post, but he plays with all of us in a Discord call but he only plays with us one at a time, and the two of us who aren't playing are expected to listen and record notable quotes for his notes. He'll switch between characters where each player gets 2-3 "scenes" in a 3 hour session. He has our characters all spread out across the country Game of Thrones style and I've only gotten to play with another player in 2 sessions so far. This was also why that carnival scene was so frustrating because all 3 players were finally in the same place and we were trying to find each other and he just kept saying, "You don't see them".

He told me that he doesn't do party-based adventures because you can't get character growth that way. I pushed back and said I've seen awesome character growth in traditional DnD style games in the past, it just depends on the group. I also said he's just making things harder for himself by trying to run three campaigns instead of one. And if we don't have character sheets and aren't in a party then this is all more dramatic improv than a tabletop RPG.

He responded by saying his way is better because it creates a real story and that I should be happy because he made me the main character. (I guess that is what me being the prince means?) He then went on a rant about how much he loves the game world he created and he's very grateful that our characters brought it to life. But then he says that since it's his world, he feels like he owns our characters now and that after the campaign he wants us all to sign off on him using the characters to write books and a screenplay. And if we don't he'll just change their names and do it anyway. He then thanks me and tells me that this campaign is the main thing that has been stopping him from self-harm and going to dark places. Then he says he has to go and he rushes to hang up before I can say anything else.

I'm dumbfounded after that rapid-fire series of bombshells. I've known since the first few sessions that this was barely a TTRPG, but I got to hang out with my friends so I didn't care what it was. It was nice to hang out with old friends a couple times each month. Then the story got weird, and there was so much misogyny, and then I had the horrible session that caused my original post. Then in this conversation, he throws up even more red flags that I'm not blind to, but he is also planting a seed that he may harm himself without the campaign which is not something I want on my conscience. I'm just exhausted at this point.

TLDR: GM says that abilities and parties make TTRPGs worse and he wants to use our characters to write books/movies after the campaign because he owns them since we're playing in his world. He says he may fall back to self-harm without the campaign, making me feel guilty for wanting to leave.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

ShitThroughAGoose

Any update to this?

OOP

I ended up doing one more session for the finale. There was some drama during that session and when I mentioned that I didn't want to play in the next season of the campaign. I wasn't sure if I wanted to post about it again. I might still, but I think I want to take some time and reflect on everything.

  May 11, 2024

[Final Update] Moving On From My Toxic DM And Losing A Friend In The Process

This will hopefully be my last post on this sub for a long time, but I’ve been using this place to vent about my toxic situation for a while so I figured I might as well post how everything concluded and what happened when I left. I’m going to reflect on everything and recap the important parts so no one has to read 3 posts.

It all started when I decided to start DMing to keep in touch with some college friends after graduation. During my first campaign, one of the players, Pirate, asked if his friend, Colorado, could join. I didn't really know Colorado, but I figured, "the more, the merrier."

Colorado had some issues early on, giving unsolicited advice to everyone on how to play and viewing newer or shy players as “side characters”. However, he frequently missed sessions, only showing up for less than half of them for the first few years so nothing came to a head early on. Then, Colorado decided he wanted to bring back his tabletop campaign from his college days and started trying to recruit players after my sessions. Pirate suggested I join the campaign, promising that Colorado was a better DM than player. Since I had been the Forever DM up to that point, I agreed to give it a go.

I created a character who was part of the royal family but enjoyed interacting with commoners in the slums, even having a secret girlfriend from that background. After that, Colorado also started hitting me up to help with the campaign. I ended up photoshopping character art for a bunch of his NPCs and I even drew his world map for him. I didn't mind doing it, as I do that kind of stuff for fun.

For our first session, Colorado had already created character sheets for us based on our backstories, but only he could see them. Colorado would also roll all the dice himself so “all we had to focus on is roleplaying”. We played one on one in different "scenes" that could last around 30 minutes to an hour each. We usually had around 2 to 4 scenes per session, depending on what Colorado thought was important. During the game, Colorado asked us to write down quotes from him and the other players when it wasn't our turn.

I had to wait for well over an hour before I could finally play. My first session was on rails. I mostly just had to repeat after Colorado during a ceremony. Afterwards, I got to sneak out of the castle and meet with my commoner girlfriend, but Colorado immediately had her break up with me. Then I was told that I had to leave the city. I was essentially locked out of my hanging out in the slums and commoner girlfriend subplots. NPCs generally disliked my morally good character, especially my sister who was depicted as purely evil towards me. Despite my efforts to mend the relationship, she never changed her mind and Colorado never rolled any dice to determine that. Later Colorado revealed to me the character was based on his ex-girlfriend, who was originally intended to be the player character from my country before they broke up.

Eventually, I finally got to interact with another player, Soldier, who I had really good chemistry with and we had a really fun scene. Which Colorado exclaimed, “See! This is why I keep you apart. It makes these moments so much more epic!” But I’m just thinking that if we were in a party, every session could be this epic.

Then Colorado got busy. He went to some alternative medicine nature retreat and didn’t pay his rent the whole time he was gone so he got evicted. At that point, the campaign went on hiatus as people got busy and Colorado was couch hopping. It was during that time I considered the campaign over and because I thought it fit the sub. Then a year after the last session, Colorado started trying to organize the group to do 3 more sessions to finish the campaign. I just ghosted the group chat for a while, but Pirate’s roommate is a player in the campaign I DM so Pirate started hopping on the call asking me to come back for the finale. Pirate told me that it would be different this time because all of our characters were going to meet up for the finale and he really wanted to play with me. I naively agreed to give the game a second chance.

The first of those three sessions led to and this .

[TLDR - I never got to meet up with the other characters. Colorado made my ex a stripper and I was captured by invaders with no dice rolls to prevent it. I had a conversation with him about my concerns after the last session. He apologized and agreed to make changes saying he needed the campaign for his mental health.]

Colorado decided to have a single super finale session, which I reluctantly attended because of sunk cost fallacy. I was imprisoned, beaten and whipped, separated from my girlfriend and recently resurrected bodyguard. A deus-ex ninja offered to help me escape, but I wanted to save all the prisoners. So I helped the commoners escape with the ninja before saving my girlfriend. My bodyguard got captured, but I made sure my girlfriend escaped and then I went to save my bodyguard because I wasn’t letting her die after she just got resurrected. I tried to find my bodyguard but every door was locked and I was forced into a long one on one fight with a guard that would make John Carpenter blush. I lost the fight due to an unknown -2 modifier on my fighting rolls, leading to my re-imprisonment.

Pirate tried to board a boat to reach my location, but was unsuccessful. Colorado informed him that the sailors refused to let him on the ship because they didn't like his tone. Fortunately, Soldier saved me and we agreed to stop the big bad and rescue my bodyguard together. With a squad of Soldier's peers, we pursued the big bad into the woods. Without any rolls, all the other soldiers were sniped by archers.

Finally, the two of us reached the clearing where the big bad and his followers were. We were outnumbered about 30-2. My bodyguard and the other commoners were tied to a tree. Soldier was the same race as the villain so he approached while I stayed hidden. He delivered an awesome passionate speech against the big bad's actions saying that it wasn’t what their ancestors would want. I’m sitting there waiting and hoping for a persuasion roll… and nothing. Colorado says the big bad doesn’t change his mind and he sets the tree on fire, causing my bodyguard and the commoners to burn to death. Soldier and I retreated into the woods to end the campaign.

Pirate was supposed to have a scene after us, but he fell asleep because it was past 1am.  Colorado kept trying to call Pirate on the phone. I joke, “Hey, we’re old now, being up past midnight isn’t as easy as it used to.” To which Colorado replies, “I just thought Pirate had more respect for me than this.” The Discord call becomes quiet and after Colorado starts focusing on Soldier and I. He wants to know why we’re not discussing the ending more. I remarked that it was a bit of a downer and I’m tired. Then Colorado starts spiraling, saying that RPGs are just another medium that he failed at just like film and music. HE STARTS CRYING and hangs up from the Discord call. Soldier and I stayed on and had a short “That was awkward” conversation. I don’t know Soldier well so I didn’t say much about my grievances with the campaign and eventually we ended up just talking about Baldur’s Gate 3 for an hour.

The next day, I wake up to a barrage of texts from Colorado apologizing, mansplaining how hard it is to be a DM as if I’ve never done it myself. He then starts sending me messages with all his ideas for my character in the next season and how he promises I’ll have more freedom next time. I wouldn’t understand, but he NEEDED to do the prison sequence and my bodyguard to die for my character growth, but next season will be different. I tell him I’m not doing another season. Colorado replies saying that he thought I’d say that because Pirate (who was apparently not sleeping) told him Soldier and I were bitching about the campaign after the session. Colorado said that once I get over it, we can start talking about season 3. I reaffirmed my stance. Then Colorado texts me one last time and asks if I’ll still make his maps and character art even if I don’t play. I said no again.

It's been two months since I last heard from Colorado or Pirate. We used to play games and talk about pro wrestling all the time, but now there's been no contact. A lot of the comments on my posts helped me realize I was prioritizing Colorado’s mental health over my own and I felt like it was my responsibility to support his campaign because he constantly referenced how important it was to his mental health. Intentional or not, he preyed upon my empathy. I’m not his Giving Tree and I shouldn’t be left a stump for a campaign where he doesn’t even want us to affect the world.

I sometimes worry Pirate is going through a similar situation to me, but for a longer period of time. Pirate introduced me to Colorado, and he's really loyal to him. I think that slowed down my exit from the group because I trusted Pirate to be my friend as well. I remember opening up to Pirate about a panic attack I had while Colorado was spiraling one day, and he just shrugged it off as me being dramatic. It's frustrating. I want both of them to be happy, but I can't make that happen for them, especially if it comes at the expense of my own well-being.

I ended up venting to some of my irl friends and they really supported and listened to me which is why I didn’t feel a need to vent here. I learned a lot about what not to do when DMing from this campaign and it made me reevaluate my approach to playing RPGs. Now I'm in a group with my irl friends and it's a blast. I can relax and just have fun playing again.

TLDR - I started DMing to stay connected with college friends who were scattered across the country. One player, Pirate, introduced me to Colorado, who eventually took over as the DM. Colorado had some unconventional methods, such as not using character sheets and controlling all the dice rolls. The game became focused on his storyline and my character had limited agency. Despite this, I gave the campaign a second chance. In the final session, things went poorly, and Colorado had a breakdown. Despite his apologies and promises for the next season, I decided not to continue playing. I have not heard from Colorado or Pirate since. I now play with my real-life friends and it's much more enjoyable.

RELEVANT COMMENTS/ADDED INFO

TicketPrestigious

Glad you're doing better. That does sound like quite a toxic situation.

If I've understood it right, the stuff with Pirate 'falling asleep' but actually listening in to you and Soldier talking feels like a massive red flag to me. I understand worrying about him since you were/felt like you were friends, but if he's enabling Colorado with that sort of stuff then it's probably best to move on.

OOP

Yeah even the best case would be that Pirate woke up after Colorado left the call and just overheard Soldier and me talking without us realizing because his mic was muted and we assumed he had passed out and then he snitched after which is still a bad look tbh. I had been distancing myself from Pirate since he invalidated my panic attack prior to this. It's just hard to be vulnerable with someone again after that.

THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP

DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

I am not the OOP. The OOP is posting in

Concluded as per OOP

1 update - Medium

- 19th June 2023

- 18th May 2024

AITA for not moving my wedding date?

Not the A-hole My fiancé and I recently got engaged, and when looking at dates we realized our anniversary falls on a Saturday this year. Perfect right? We immediately start planning because it’s approximately 9 months out and we have to move quick to pull a wedding together. We told everyone the potential date this weekend and all seemed well.

Monday I get a phone call from my father. He insists that I move the date because my mother has a yoga retreat that weekend. I tell him that this date means a lot to me and I would prefer to keep it if there is any way to move the retreat. There is, but it’s expensive. I offer to pay for this change out of my wedding budget, essentially halving the amount that I can spend on the most important event of my life.

Yesterday I was told that they would not be taking my offer to pay to move the retreat and that we’re expected to move the wedding instead. I haven’t put money on my venue yet, so they think I should be fine with giving up the chance to marry on a date that means a lot to me. It became a massive fight, and now my parents and I aren’t speaking. My father accused me of caring about a date more than I care about my mother. I told him that it felt as though they were choosing yoga over their own daughter.

TLDR: wedding falls on the same day as moms yoga retreat. I haven’t put money down on the date yet and she has, but it means more to me than to her. Offers to pay to move the retreat were turned down. WIBTA if I keep my date and say that it’s me or the retreat?

Comments

imothro

Your parents are prioritizing a yoga retreat over your wedding? I told him that it felt as though they were choosing yoga over their own daughter. They 100% are. Have the wedding without them. NTA

Satogamii

And i would be petty and put on the photos why they weren't at the wedding. Op parents sucks. NTA.

z00k33per0304

Make them yoga poses too just for the extra flair.

apartment-flood

NTA - and the next time your parents invite you to something, tell them, "namaste at home"

**Judgement - NTA**

Update - 11 months later

Hey everyone! It's been a while (I forgot my password), but a few people asked for updates on how my last post turned out. Unfortunately, a lot of you may not like the answer.

Almost all of you said not to change the date, and to enjoy my time without them there. I followed half of that advice. I eventually did relent to my family and change the date of the wedding. My fiancé (now husband!) said that the date wasn't as important as my happiness, and the fighting with my parents was destroying that. Now after six months, we both wish we hadn't because it was useless.

They still didn't show up. Not only that, but they convinced 90% of my family not to show up either. I ended up with only four relatives there in a crowd of about 100 guests.

My mother claimed that I had been "excluding her from planning" (by scheduling venue tours on days that my fiancé and I were both free but I didn't realize she was working, and by finding my dress by surprise on a "just here to look" trip without her being there). They hadn't shown any interest in planning, so I mainly didn't want to bother them. To them, this was "clearly a sign that you don't want us there". So they went out of town on the new date.

In the end, narcissist mother still got her yoga, I still moved my date, and I still walked myself down the aisle.

But my petty self did, in fact, strike back. I had an amazing time, and I made sure that I left obvious empty seats marked for them and told everyone the truth with a smile when they asked. The few family members that did show are now no longer speaking to them either, as are all of the friends who came. The only exception is my brother (who I'm pretty sure they asked to relay the details of the party to them), and even he has almost entirely cut them out due to how they've acted.

I haven't spoken to my mother since about a month before the wedding, when she told me to get all of my old things out of her house. I speak to my father very rarely, and only over things like deaths in the family. My in-laws have basically taken me in as their own, and I'm far happier than I ever was in the nightmare of a family I grew up with. Life is good.

TLDR: moved the date of the wedding so mom could go to yoga, parents still didn't show, had a better day without them than I would have with them there, finally cut contact with those narcissists

Comments

Even_Enthusiasm7223

Great for you, The next time you contact them in any manner or let them know anything about your life is after you give birth and send them an announcement. Hey, I just like you to know that you are the proud grandparents of a child you will never meet. That's being petty

floridaeng

My petty side says when or if you have kids don't do anything to tell them. I would even say don't tell your brother unless he promises to not tell them. They have clearly shown they don't care about you and don't want any contact, so give them what they want.

DragonMaster7433

Good on you for going either very low contact or no contact with them. I looked through your old posts and saw where they wanted you to join a dinner date with another family member shortly before the actual dinner while you were busy. It wild to me how they seem to want you to respect their time and plans but have absolutely no respect for your time and plans.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

The Context:

Our drama takes place across two threads in , beginning with OOP

OOP includes the property manager’s contact information in the screenshot and says they “felt comfortable enough to share this man [sic] information because he's a scumbag piece of shit.”

The sub quickly moves into action.

The Drama:

Some question OOP’s story:

Regardless, most landlords are scum.

Because they make you pay for the things you use?

Way too much, yes.

Just how much do you think the average landlord makes on a rental? I'm curious as to your thoughts, because I have actual numbers and I guarantee they are not nearly what you think.

Is this all Biden’s fault?

You advocating for socialist housing policies? More renters protections? More tenants rights? Congrats man you’re more a socialist than I am.

Guaranteed he doesn't get it. XD

Nah. Obviously you morons don't get it. Probably don't own real estate either🤣. That's what happens when the country is becoming a third world country due to the far left policies of America today. I'm not saying how the guy went about raising rents went, but it's happening everywhere. But, come back and try again tomorrow. Maybe you'll be a little smarter when you wake up.

Wake up to what? The fact that presidents don’t dictate rent prices? Why does a studio apartment in Kalamazoo cost 1/5 what it does in Manhattan? Why did Biden decide that?

[Continued:]

I didn't once mention the word president. I said the far left policies brought us to this point. So I see all you want to do is run your mouth, because you're blaming a president which I didn't do. Nice try though.

“Far left policies?” What specifically policies did the dems pass, that are considered “far left”, that cause landlords to raise rent prices more than inflation rates?

And you said “Biden America” so don’t play dumb now about not using the word President.

Hahaha, your low IQ is showing. I'm guessing 80 since you can spell, but that might just be a smartphone doing the heavy lifting.

Awe, did I trigger a snowflake? I see aim dealing with a keyboard warrior here, but would never say that to my face🤣. Get lost worm!

OOP is condemned:

Greed is wrong. Dox pieces of crap like this landlord more often any maybe then won't do shit like this.

Nah. It’s not only generally wrong it’s against reddits rules. It doesn’t matter what you think.

And no one CARES what YOU think about it. Go cry elsewhere

Others defend the property manager:

Yes it is

You’re lame

No it's not but that isn't doxxing.

[…]

You know this guy is just working a job to pay his bills too? A property manager isn't going to fully control rent prices and if he does price it they have a responsibility to their client (the owner) to charge the market rate.

While it's a shame that rent is increasing for OP, this company sent a fair warning advanced notice to either expect to pay up or find another living arrangement.

This guy did nothing wrong, didn't deserve for the Internet to white knight attack him, and you are an asshole.

ehhh,...bullshit!, the problem here is this Asshole is jacking up the rent %100, like everyone is made of money you complainer-motherfucker, greed= you get what you get, and the rents are way the fuck out of control just like everything else.

Sorry to break it to you that owners of investment properties aren't developing projects to shelter people out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm not saying the system doesn't have flawed or isn't tough on people, but as a renter you need to face the reality that your rights to the property do not go further than the lease contract you signed.

Oh, they're doing it for profit? Real profound statement, dipshit.

Hey man go buy some homes and give people deals. Or keep crying online your whole life.

Yes, that’s how people make money. Stay broke lil bro

[Continued:]

Yeah that was established by the OP genius. Most literate redditor right here, good lord lol

Looks like I hit a nerve broke boy

yawn

[…]

as a human being with morals intact, maybe your responsibility is to the owner. You still owe it to the people who rely on you and your client (the owner) for housing to not raise rent 100x. Maybe it's legal, but it is absolute scumbag behavior. Maybe you aren't a scumbag, but you picked a career where they flourish

not raise rent 100x

100x and 100% are completely different.

For all we know OP could have been locked into an extremely low rate on rent for the last ten years and this could be the first adjustment catching up to market rate. In a contract your only locked in for the length of the contract, and when that contract ends friendly reminder that you don't own the property nor have rights to it or in the future. Laws on rent increases vary based on area and there may not be anything illegal here.

While I wouldn't be happy if I was OP either due to the 100% increase being pretty significant, it's totally unreasonable to think you rent will never increase in the future.

Attacking a guy who had his personal info leaked on the Internet because you don't like the rental system is pretty pathetic behavior.

Simply put if you don't like renting go buy your own property where you don't have to deal with this.

Who the fuck is signing a 10 year lease for residential property?

Probably no one. Regardless your rights end with the lease expiration date in any circumstance.

[Continued:]

There's something incredibly basic that goes over your head, along with people who argue like you.

Your entire strategy here is to enumerate descriptive truths (e.g your rights end at X point, property managers have a fiduciary responsibility to serve landlords, etc.) to imply normative ones (e.g therefore the behavior of the property manager or landlord is justified).

This isn't how ethics works. If it was, then the Holocaust would be justified. What the Jews did was illegal, they existed during the Nazi regime, which meant they had no right to life. That's a descriptively true fact, they literally lacked the right to life, and Nazis could engage in the exact same game you are playing, enumerating descriptive truths about the political reality of Germany in 1942 to justify rounding up Jewish people.

Descriptive and normative truths are built up the same way (through axioms and logic). However, the legality of something does not universally indicate how ethical something is.

If you want to continue playing the game of listing descriptive facts about the world, I have a fun one for you. The commodification of housing materially harms the working class, and has done so to such an extent that peasant revolutions within the past 100 years have literally rounded up landlords and shot them dead because of how much harm they were causing. This didn't require decades or centuries of anti-landlord rhetoric to dehumanize landlords, because the harm landlords cause is real and can be felt by people. Sometimes, when a large group of people are harmed enough, they get frustrated and revolt against said harm. That's a real risk landlords should realize they're engaging in, they tend to feel safe because the State backs the interests of the bourgeoisie, but that's not always necessarily going to be the case.

Thanks man I'm obviously going to rethink my stance that people shouldn't be doxxing this guy

You said a lot more than just an anti-doxxing stance. If all you said was "damn I wish this dude wanted doxxed", I wouldn't have bothered to comment. You mentioned a property manager's responsibility to serve the interests of the landlord. You mentioned your rights to the property ending with the expiration of the lease. These descriptively true facts were done to imply the landlord/property manager were behaving justly and didn't deserve to get doxxed.

Whether they deserve it or not, when one group consistently engages in harming another group, sometimes the other group fights back. The working class has very few avenues for actually fighting back against this sort of thing, and most of the tactics in this thread generally boil down to moderately annoying the landlord. They'll still evict the tenant, the tenant will still potentially become homeless because of housing commodification. The harm is still being done, and the landlord is benefitting from it.

Worse things have happened to landlords for engaging in this behavior, and they can happen again. It's not a game worth playing for anyone. It'd be best for everyone if landlords just fucked off and stopped scalping houses, but they won't. And peasants don't generally put up with this shit indefinitely.

Well damn man I wish that dude wasn't doxxed.

I appreciate the six paragraphs you wrote me and apologize if the economic model we have (that neither of us can change) has somehow hurt you today.

Yes, nobody can change economic models, yet they somehow change anyway, weird. It's almost as though the base-structure informs the super-structure, and as the contradictions of capitalism intensify, material harm skyrockets, people "radicalize" (see what used to be externalized costs actually internalized). Conversations are part of this change, the introduction of language and ideas allows people to navigate and reason about the harm they're feeling, and correctly place the blame, which is incredibly important.

If you look at the fascist movement in the U.S, you'll commonly see they actually agree on what's harming them (this is easy to tell). Rising prices (rent, groceries, etc.), shit pay, no control in decision making. However, they misunderstand the system.

People like you have baked capitalist realism into their heads (the system is immutable, this is the true way of the world, there's no reason to think or discuss an alternative because it's unreasonable), so they don't even consider that capitalism is the problem.

Instead they blame the Mexicans "not sending their best", or how LGBT communities are "attacking traditional values". They look for ways the world is changing, and assume that change is what's causing the harm they're feeling. You're an important part of the fascist pipeline, and even if you're not a fascist yourself, I'd suggest you get your head out of your ass before we literally live in a fascist dictatorship and this shit is illegal to discuss. Liberalism has many times devolved into fascism to prevent socialism. Bourgeoisie interests operate fine in fascist environments, so they'd prefer to move in that direction instead of something that actually fixes class contradictions.

[Continued:]

Your right we should totally be cool with OP getting hundreds of redditors to harass this property managers personal life about an issue we all literally don't even know the full story of, because fascism.

Dude I'm going to stay out of this subreddit and genuinely wish you all well please try not to go postal next time rent increases.

At no point did I greenlight anyone's actions, and you responded to none of my points. Stop fabricating a strawman to justify your own position.

Hey man if you actually have the capacity to talk about what I'v been talking about the entire time I'll chat.

Please don't respond with anything about Hitler, bourgeoisie, fascism, economic disparity, or assumptions you have about me.

What do you think about OP getting hundreds of people to harass the personal life of this guy over something we all have limited info on a single side of the story. Justified or unjustified?

You discussed tenant rights, property manager responsibility, and even directly alluded to capitalist realism. It's an incredibly unfair tactic to mention all of these things, then the moment you get a rational response dismantling every one of your points, move the goalposts and back down from every point you've made in this entire thread except one.

Like everyone can scroll up and read, you're not fooling anyone into thinking your only point has been anti-doxxing. You just lack the capacity to have a genuine conversation, so you'll simply retreat from every point you've made instead of considering that maybe you were wrong.

I think what the OP is doing is harmful, but not as harmful as what the landlord did. I don't have enough information to say if it was justified or not, and neither do you. Sometimes harmful things can be done and they can be justified, especially in retaliation. I can list off a ton of extreme examples that are potentially justified but far more harmful than what either of these people are doing.

Well at least we agree what OP is doing is harmful.

Now I guess we need to ask should we or should we not harass real life people based on unverifiable stories from anonymous people online?

Sorry if you didn't like how I laid it all out. But i think not liking the realities of the rental systems isn't good enough justification to get hundreds of people to harass someone over what could potentially be a fabricated story, but that's just me.

[Continued:]

Most reasonable diamond hands joker

You said you were leaving.

Is a rent increase ever justified?

No reason, like higher taxes, higher demand, higher insurance rates, higher trash fees, higher utilities, on and on.

Tell me you don't pay your own bills, without telling me you don't pay your own bills.

Maybe these cooperate assholes should pay their own bills

They do.

Hahaha you’re trying to sell airbnb management and consultation, dude go read the book of matthew and become a better human.

”Rentoid”:

found the wannabe landlord

like ahh, yes, let’s be offended that the exploiter might face consequences for their actions

lol

Yea what do you expect from a rentoid sub lmao

tf is a rentoid what 😭

A term for renters used by toxic landlords and homeowners that believe themselves superior to people who rent.

they've got bootlicking down to a science i tell ya

[…]

No not really. Everyone in this sub admitting they are calling and texting him and harassing him online need to be more careful. And grow tf up

This guy deepthroats the whole boot

Child response. I'm sorry you willfully signed your lease and no one forced you too. Grow up

Haha 🤣 if I cared what you thought I’d ask how the shoe polish tastes. It’s honestly not even doxxing. That’s a letter they sent, with facts they provided, and a public number to be contacted at. Op is under no obligation to protect the management company from their own stupidity.

Some people question OOP’s story:

Google is your friend

I too can write a bullshit letter, stick a business’s phone number, screencap it and karma farm on Reddit. Unlike OP I’m not an idiot.

Sounds like you wrote the letter, mate.

You are making me rather confident in the assumption

[Continued:]

I can tell you blindly accept whatever OP posts on Reddit. Easily manipulated. 

What are you talking about lol. Why are you so angry at a box of lights. Go to bed, or at least take a nap.

Same to you buddy. I’m baffled why you’re getting active over me calling out the truth.

[…]

Bro chill

The lack of critical thinking on this sub is mind blowing.

It’s not about critical thinking, it’s about sending a message.

Sending a message on the premise that OP is being honest? If OP put your phone number there I bet you’d be singing a different tune.

[…]

Google the number. It belongs to that business

So we’re assuming the landlord wrote that letter? If you look at their properties nothing even comes close to the rents OP is claiming.

I think OP has successfully trolled you and a hundred other people.

Subreddits get shut down for this tho.

Is this all doxxing?

Sharing a document you are a party to online that isn’t under NDA isn’t doxxing. OP didn’t ask Reddit to harass the landlord in the original thread. There’s nothing here to worry about since he’s not renewing his lease there.

Unless the landlord is in the….mob

OP said (in the text): "I felt comfortable enough to share this man(s) information because he's a scumbag piece of shit"

As any lawyer would tell you, intent matters, esp. in civil cases. -or- more pragmatically as any competent lawyer would tell you, if you're sweating $1k/month in rent, don't bank on legal technicalities to save the day when intentionally picking fights with entities with the capital to buy buildings.

The number is publicly available, you could literally say "please say nasty things to this number" and it would still be completely legal and any claim against it would be immediately laughed out of court.

I don’t know why you keep posting stuff similar to this. The behavior that you’re stating is completely legal is 100% not legal in Pennsylvania, where the area code for the number comes back to.

Harrassment is not legal behavior. And (3) engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which serve no legitimate purpose, is language that could be used to define what’s going on here. It could also qualify under 4, 5, and 6.

[Continued:]

The behavior that you’re stating is completely legal is 100% not legal in Pennsylvania, where the area code for the number comes back to.

No lol.

Harrassment is not legal behavior. And (3) engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts which serve no legitimate purpose, is language that could be used to define what’s going on here. It could also qualify under 4, 5, and 6.

Read the definition you just posted lol, OP did not do anything remotely quantifiable as harassment, he just posted the publicly available number, if OP is spamming offensive messages or something to the landlord sure but that is categorically not what is visible here. Further a customer complaint and warning is a legitimate purpose and is well established as protected speech thousands of times over. Unless you knowingly lie in a review you are protected completely. "This company sucks don't rent from them and here is their publicly available contact info" is completely indisputably first amendment protected speech everywhere in the US.

It is extremely funny that you would post evidence of yourself being wrong.

People have been calling and texting the number and some even stated that their calls and texts have been answered. The person who is answering is apparently the owner/landlord. That person is being harassed. Look at the comments describing what people are sending him. Pictures of their asses and random shit talk. That does not count as a customer review or a complaint.

All of that communication has been facilitated through the OP, who also stated that they intentionally left the contact information because they believe the landlord is an asshole.

Maybe stick to legal issues in Australia instead of trying to incorrectly educate Americans about our first amendment. Freedom of speech is not freedom to blow up someone’s phone because you don’t agree with their business practices. Even if they are unethical and shitty.

Others upbraid people for ruining OOP’s life:

hands you a box of tissue

What do you mean?

By texting the number, it could be considered outing the OOP for Doxxing which is illegal.

OOP could potentially be in legal trouble now because they forgot to edit out the contact information and posted it and people decided to text the number.

Attacks become misogynistic:

As a woman, you should be in the kitchen.

Aww, bless your heart. I know it’s hard, but just know, that with an attitude like that, you’ll die alone because no woman will want you. But, you already know that 💕💕 here’s hoping you learn to have a personality beyond misogyny before it’s too late!

He hasn’t had pussy since it had him. No worries there.

God you're limp.

The Flairs: