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American Politics (i.redd.it)

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[–]YetAnother2Cents 4425 points4426 points  (424 children)

For many, this is at least part of what they meant by "defund" the police. Money spent on mental health responders would be far more beneficial to public safety than militarization of the police, as one example.

[–]Lady_Parts_Destroyer 2959 points2960 points  (234 children)

This. The police unions would lead you to believe that we want our police force to be unprotected to do their jobs, but we just witnessed a militaristic display that would make a Call of Duty player blush.

And it was used against us. For protesting. A first amendment right.

[–]Canvasch 637 points638 points  (84 children)

Right now, go look at your town or cities budget and see how much is for police. It's likely that police get as much as everything else combined. That's why people say to defund the police

[–]The_chosen_turtle 99 points100 points  (21 children)

$827.7 million budget for police in for San Antonio, TX & everything else $450 million. What the fuck

Bexar County has a 1.78 billion budget wow

[–]Canvasch 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Right

[–]yukiheishi 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I'm actually surprised by my city. Dallas PD's operating budget is only $500 million. The school district's is $1.6 billion.

[–]dnmnew 13 points14 points  (1 child)

As a school board director, that is very low for the district for a district that size. That’s a huge district.

[–]yukiheishi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Education is criminally underfunded all over the United States, I'm not arguing against that. I'm just surprised that we're not spending a lot more on our own police department.

From my own googling though, I'm seeing different numbers than what the_chosen_turtle claimed above with San Antonio spending $479 million on its PD.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/14/texas-police-budgets-austin-dallas-houston-san-antonio/

Which is still over a third of their general fund.

[–]trying2moveon 8 points9 points  (9 children)

San Antonio is an anomaly. You have to consider it is ranked #7 on the list of most travelled to cities in the U.S.

It also has one of the highest crime rates overall per 100k people, higher even than the national average. So, yeah, their budget should be higher.

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      [–][deleted] 353 points354 points  (18 children)

      My hometown of 20,000 has a hugely overinvested police department. They have adequate funding for bodycams but just don't feel like installing them, they have way more officers than is necessary for a fairly safe town, as 80% of the officers I've ever seen are sitting in their cars or patrolling black neighborhoods.

      Meanwhile, at least half the storefronts are abandoned and people are moving away in droves, myself currently in college over a thousand miles away included.

      [–]enthalpy01 61 points62 points  (6 children)

      You might be able to just add more oversight into overtime and save money there. https://reason.com/2019/06/12/how-oakland-cops-gamed-the-system-to-earn-30-million-in-overtime-pay/

      [–]ItsWheeze 80 points81 points  (5 children)

      It gets even better. In the small city where I used to be a reporter, the cops had defined-benefit pensions that were determined as a percentage (I think 60%) of their average annual pay for their final two years on the job. Not their base pay but all of it including overtime, and overtime was awarded based on seniority — the oldest officers got first dibs to work as much as they wanted. So it enabled cops to work crazy hours those last two years and then retire making more than they ever did on the job except for those last two years, for the rest of their lives

      [–]awholedamngarden 33 points34 points  (1 child)

      I just know those are going to be the same people and their families who talk shit about folks (low wage single parents, disabled folks) "exploiting government benefits"? Take several seats y'all

      [–]slayerx1779 21 points22 points  (0 children)

      And most of the rest of us will never know what having a pension feels like.

      [–]Reikko35715 8 points9 points  (0 children)

      In my old department it was the average of the highest two years of your last five years.

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        [–]laughifyoulike 27 points28 points  (5 children)

        Maybe the police can move in together and fuck each other- start a happy family of baby smurfs. - hold up, gonna go write a song. No offense to the good guys.

        Sup Mr. Meyer! Where you at these days?

        [–]PantherU 41 points42 points  (2 children)

        I...I have no idea what’s going on here

        [–]eattheambrosia 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        Playing with Dead and Company. But probably not right now, cause of the rona.

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            [–]NubEnt 30 points31 points  (7 children)

            Austin is cutting $150m from the police budget and our governor is threatening to take over policing, claiming that Austin would become a lawless haven for criminal activity.

            ...Austin is one of the safest big cities in Texas, if not the US.

            [–]djb1983CanBoy 13 points14 points  (3 children)

            The thing is, austin is very blue, isnt it? So you can see the governers response

            [–]NubEnt 12 points13 points  (2 children)

            Yeah, it votes blue, but there’s still a lot of red voters even in Austin.

            Also, Austin is gerrymandered to fuck. Our districts extend all the way out to San Antonio and Dallas.

            I guess what I’m saying is that even if your city chooses to reallocate police funding, your city might get Abbott-ed like Austin might.

            [–]Importance-Important 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Abbott-ed

            That's priceless!

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              [–]Party_Salad 13 points14 points  (0 children)

              I live in a small city, with one of the lowest crime rates in the country and our police budget is $70M, and was approved for increase next year. For every tax dollar, the police department receives 0.28 cents. Meanwhile, there is a 5% budget cut that will cause a $9M budget shortfall for the city's public school system next year. The message is loud and clear. We care more about policing than we do our children's education.

              [–]AndyGHK 20 points21 points  (3 children)

              My favorite is how they’ll cut the arts, or education, or social security—but the police?

              No!! cuts!! EVER!!!! POLICE are NECESSARY!! In fact!! here’s a budget increase!! Buy yourselves a nice new set of tanks and never EVER say that about cutting police budget again!!

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                [–]YetAnother2Cents 529 points530 points  (58 children)

                I live 3 blocks from our state Capitol and that is exactly what happened. 6 miles away there was violence at another demonstration. So the peaceful demonstration at the Capitol, that had gotten all the necessary permits and permissions, was told to disperse without explanation. 15 minutes later, tear gas and rubber bullets because the crowd didn't disperse quickly enough.

                The violence was 100% the police.

                [–][deleted] 174 points175 points  (5 children)

                Every time the police stopped showing up to the protests, the protests weren’t violent anymore. What a crazy random happenstance.

                [–]motonaut 75 points76 points  (1 child)

                Violently policing protesting police violence

                [–]BrytiLaughs 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                This is enjoyably poetic.

                I just wish it was about something that wasn't so horrible.

                [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                I can't even tell you how long it's been since I thought about Dr Horrible

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                  [–]Griffin880 64 points65 points  (6 children)

                  And all they had to do was say "you are right. Police violence is a problem, and here is what we plan to do to fix it in our department."

                  Police departments around the country chose to spend days fighting protestors rather than just saying "we should, and can, and will do better."

                  [–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                  "Are you calling me abusive? I'LL SHOW YOU ABUSIVE" - a totally innocent police culture around the country

                  [–]buyfreemoneynow 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                  That sounds like my dad.

                  Anybody else hear “I’ll give you something to cry about” while crying more than they heard something reassuring like “what’s wrong?” Or “I love you and you are safe”?

                  [–]kurtist04 27 points28 points  (3 children)

                  There were departments that did that, and those protests didn't turn violent. I remember seeing a county sheriff marching with protestors. But that's not exciting, so it didn't make national news.

                  [–]Gravelsack 22 points23 points  (1 child)

                  I remember seeing a county sheriff marching with protestors. But that's not exciting, so it didn't make national news.

                  I remember seeing that too, even though I live in a different state. You know why? Because it made national news.

                  [–]dissonaut69 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                  The problem was there were way more examples of cops beating up unarmed people or pushing over the elderly than them showing humility.

                  [–]TheBlueSully 22 points23 points  (0 children)

                  Lots of pics of cops marching or kneeling with protestors. Before getting gassed right as the cop walked away.

                  [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (2 children)

                  In my city, the worst day for the protests was when a police officer was caught on film going on a racist rant directed at a protestor, while someone else filmed it. This caused more people to show up, and so the police used gas as a preventative measure, which then caused a couple small acts of vandalism to break out like someone spray painted the mayor’s house, and trash cans thrown around, etc.

                  [–]YetAnother2Cents 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                  We seem to have forgotten the 75 year old protester in Buffalo who was callously pushed to the ground and vilified up to the president.

                  Honestly, that should have been the centerpiece of a Willie Horton-like political ad exposing the "law and order" president.

                  [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                  If you ask Conservatives they'll tell you he was a radical left actor and the blood was faked with a pack behind the ear. I wish I could forget this before I get mad again.

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                    [–]thatguy2366 150 points151 points  (40 children)

                    Not to mention it's just feeding the same cycle. We're aren't solving the problem we're just throwing money more and more money at it. If their jobs are so dangerous that they need to be armored up, shoot first and ask questions later and drive around in armored cars maybe... I mean, maybe there is a crime and gun problem in the country. We could spend more of that police money solving the issues that cause crime but nah "the drug war" or whatever I guess.

                    [–]mxbrowb 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                    They don't have that equipment as a result of over funding and them throwing millions around at fancy gadgets. Their MRAPs, armor, camo etc is almost all military surplus given at little to no cost through the 1033 program. At most they pay shipping and get a 1mil MRAP. The caveat is that of they don't lose the equipment they lose it, so often times they get this shiny thing that they like but if they don't use it they'll get it taken from them. As a result using MRAPs, camo, and military equipment in general is the cheapest most cost effective option.

                    [–]CivilGuest7 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                    "If you don't use this MRAP to harass and intimidate unarmed American civilians exercising their first amendment rights you'll lose it" is still bad actually. The 37.5k average for sensible police vehicles are more cost effective than the 10s of thousands of dollars, & in some cases millions, in maintenance and repair a single MRAP can accumulate in a year even if it is just sitting in storage. Sending these to small town, USA can completely bankrupt the local budget and then all the sudden an emergency such as a global pandemic happens and we've got doctors in trash bags and people dying in their homes because the hospital couldn't afford more beds but aleast Officer Coward McTrigger-fingers has his "free" MRAP in case a protest sign hurts his feelings

                    So yes the militarization of American police depts is absolutely due to overfunding and comes at the expense of health care, education and infrastructure. Let's not even get started on how much their brutality and wrongful death lawsuits cost taxpayers.

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                      [–]K-88 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                      They also lead you to believe they are not properly compensated for there work.

                      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                      Innocent people died at the hands of the police. The national guard protected people from the police.

                      [–]ZebZ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                      Police unions are stochastic terrorist organisations at worst, and hate groups at best.

                      [–]megjake 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      It did make Call Of Duty players blush, hence people the age of Kyle Rittenhouse siding with the police.

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                        [–]MazyHazy 65 points66 points  (19 children)

                        Spot on. It's the truth. There is still a mental health stigma unfortunately.

                        Edit: This article explains how lack of education, awareness, perception, etc contributes to the stigma if anyone is interested.

                        [–]YetAnother2Cents 28 points29 points  (17 children)

                        But you notice every time there is a mass shooting, it's a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

                        [–]SpotOnTheRug 16 points17 points  (11 children)

                        There definitely is a mental health problem which plays a major role in mass shootings. There are other factors involved, sure, but the true problem is that an unstable person decided to kill a bunch of people.

                        We need to work on reducing socioeconomic inequality and funding the support infrastructure that many underprivileged rely on to survive. That will reduce violence of all flavors, not just gun violence.

                        [–]YetAnother2Cents 9 points10 points  (5 children)

                        I believe it is a mental health problem as much, if not more, than a gun problem.

                        I think this is the frustration of the majority of Americans who stand in the middle. The extreme left call it a gun problem. The extreme right call it a mental health issue. But there is no attempt to solve either problem, just the blame game.

                        [–]kcMasterpiece 9 points10 points  (4 children)

                        Are you sure you mean the extreme left? Marx said under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered. I think democrats have said well if you won't help with the mental health part I guess we are going to have to do something about the gun part.

                        The extreme left would prefer to use the guns to help the mental health problem sooner than give them up.

                        [–]YetAnother2Cents 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                        I was attempting to indicate that the ends of the political spectrum on both sides rather than the middle are driving policy.

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                            [–]MazyHazy 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                            It's a real problem and we need to address it. It's so damn frustrating.

                            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                            But it is a mental health problem. These shooters are not mentally all there

                            [–]YetAnother2Cents 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                            I agree. The point is that there being a mental health problem is recognized when it is convenient. Yet nothing is done.

                            I don't know a single gun rights advocate who believes guns should be in the hands of the mentally unbalanced. However, they don't advocate for the creation of a mental health establishment capable of taking care of mental illness to the extent necessary to achieve that.

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                                [–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (32 children)

                                Maybe if we reworded it? Make Policing Great Again seems to have a nice ring

                                [–]YetAnother2Cents 12 points13 points  (6 children)

                                I think you hit the nail on the head! We need to be much better at communicating and campaigning. It's not about police reform, it is about increasing public safety.

                                Sadly, we sometimes get in our own way.

                                [–]ruknmal4 8 points9 points  (3 children)

                                I have had to have this exact conversation with a number of people. They hear defund the police and immediately think this means we will not have any sort of policing. That's just not the case.....when I explain what is actually meant they seem to come around to the idea that is something that needs to be done.

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                                    [–]pdwp90 43 points44 points  (2 children)

                                    Unfortunately, it's in the best interests of defense contractors that our police become increasingly militarized, and defense contractors spend ridiculous amounts of money on lobbying.

                                    I think getting corporate money out of politics is a first step for a lot of progress.

                                    [–]YetAnother2Cents 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                                    I could not agree with you more. Until the modern Dred Scott decision, Citizens United, is overturned, our country will be challenged.

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                                      [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

                                      I agree, but calling it “defund the police” is the stupidest fucking thing ever. I’m a bleeding heart liberal myself, but leave it to democrats to suck at marketing their ideas.

                                      [–]willstr1 10 points11 points  (5 children)

                                      Education too. Quality public education is one of the greatest poverty prevention and crime fighting tools out there, but instead of getting annual funding increases (like the police) most districts get annual budget cuts

                                      [–]sriaurofr 13 points14 points  (16 children)

                                      I want Joe Rogan to understand this.

                                      [–]YetAnother2Cents 20 points21 points  (5 children)

                                      The guy who thinks strengthening our immune systems is the solution to Covid-19?

                                      [–]Ohh_Yeah 6 points7 points  (2 children)

                                      Joe knows exactly who he's playing to with this bullshit logic. My friends and I had a very stupid idea to have a 12 person gathering. By Monday we were all sick, and two guys in attendance were like "bro we have strong immune systems, it's not COVID man, we go to music festivals and shit all the time, our immune systems are way too strong for COVID."

                                      Narrator: All 12 people at the cookout tested positive for COVID by Wednesday.

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                                        [–]GotAhGurs 16 points17 points  (5 children)

                                        Joe Rogan will never understand this. He's basically on the Alex Jones spectrum but on the side of it bros who still have some social success can buy in to without screwing themselves too much in the mainstream world (in some cases, it helps them). But he'll keep moving further along the Alex Jones spectrum and we'll see how many of his bro followers he takes with him. Especially as the roids keep going to his head.

                                        [–]karmander 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                        I want Joe Rogan to understand

                                        This is asking a lot of Joe Rogan.

                                        [–]AlmightyMrP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                        Joe Rogan has done DMT, he understands the universe.

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                                          [–]LongStill 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                          That maybe what defund the police was suppose to be about, but honestly that saying basically derailed the entire movement. Worst hashtag possible.

                                          [–]thatguy2366 15 points16 points  (12 children)

                                          "but but but what about when I place 'mental health responders' into a poor situation facetiously in order to justify my bias that defunding the police is more librul bs?"

                                          [–]YetAnother2Cents 21 points22 points  (7 children)

                                          I've heard from many, many law enforcement officials and officers that they want and need help with mental health calls.

                                          Wanting to fund mental health responders isn't "anti-police." In fact, a sizable portion of the police would appreciate it and be relieved not to take those calls.

                                          [–]resurrectedbear 5 points6 points  (6 children)

                                          As an officer I really don't mind me going to less mental health calls. It's a lot of what I do. My one logistical issue will be when we get sent to 90% of the calls anyways because a social worker feels unsafe. At that point why are we losing salary when we're responding anyways.

                                          [–]YetAnother2Cents 8 points9 points  (3 children)

                                          Would teams of a police officer and mental health responder be a possible solution? Wouldn't it at least be worth a try?

                                          [–]resurrectedbear 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                          Ok but then police are still showing up to calls. Defunding is meant to lower the work force/money put into police. You can't expect same work load but less funding.

                                          ​

                                          Edit: i dont mind the idea im just stating from realistically that doesn't make sense from the defund movement

                                          [–]YetAnother2Cents 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                          No doubt there are people advocating taking funding from the police even to the point of abolishment. But this is a minority opinion.

                                          Defund is a poor choice of words to reflect what is realistically a relocation of resources. So, for example, if you are currently training 100 police recruits a year, you start training 90 police recruits and 10 mental health responders instead.

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                                              [–]stringfree 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                              Then they call the cops, just like I would. Or just like a nurse or doctor in a hospital would. That's what infuriates me: This idea that if a reformed public service department can't handle every hypothetically perfectly, it's not good enough to replace the currently very flawed "everything gets an armed response" system.

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                                                [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

                                                But this wasn't a funding issue. U.S. health workers had a blank check to buy as much stuff as they needed. It just didn't exist.

                                                [–]YetAnother2Cents 18 points19 points  (4 children)

                                                At the point of the crisis, you are absolutely correct.

                                                However, before the crisis, the team set up in the Obama administration to handle epidemics was folded into the rest of the national security establishment because funding was not allocated to maintain them separately. The national stockpile of anti-pandemic supplies was built up by the Obama administration, but they depleted by them to fight N1H1. It was not restocked by either the Obama or Trump administrations due to lack of funding.

                                                Not an issue of funding, but it regards the underlying issue of priorities.The Obama commissioned the development of emergency ventilators that were a third the cost of traditional ventilators. The Trump administration delayed the delivery of 10,000 ventilators, so the company could start profiting from the technology developed at public expense for private contracts.

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                                                  [–]Expendapass 5 points6 points  (18 children)

                                                  How does a "mental health responder" deal with a call about an unhinged/aggressive man with a knife.

                                                  Looking for serious answers.

                                                  [–]YetAnother2Cents 9 points10 points  (5 children)

                                                  It's not like mental health responders are some fanciful notion. They are out there and working today. You don't hear about them because they're effective and there calls don't end in injury and death. Sometimes, they do need to call in the police. But they are still there to provide their expertise to bring the incident to the best possible solution.

                                                  [–]YamsInMyAss 6 points7 points  (4 children)

                                                  By calling a police officer if necessary. But by having someone with actual training be the first on the scene, there's a much higher chance that it will be resolved without a multi-hour standoff, a potential mentally ill person shot, or an innocent bystander injured. By sending that one social worker, you've directly saved the money that would have gone to multiple officers for hours worked, the hours of paperwork that follow up a shooting, any potential lawsuits, and the cost to society that comes with punishing mental illness with death. Spend a dollar now to save ten later.

                                                  [–]Expendapass 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                                                  If a person is already acting aggressively or hurt someone and poses a direct danger to everyone around them, the police should be the first to respond, no? Or does the safety of the suspect rank as highly as the safety of the people that he/she is endangering?

                                                  There are just too many instances where you can't talk somebody down for me to understand how a social worker would ever be a practical first responder to a violent offender/situation

                                                  [–]pushinpushin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                  Yeah....this mental health worker thing sounds great, but it just doesn't add up once you add weapons and high risk of violence. These mental health workers would have to receive similar training to policemen and carry a weapon so they're not just sitting ducks if things get violent. People who go to school for psychology or social work don't want to be glorified cops, and they're probably not cut out for it. If you can find these crossover mental health cops, sign them up and pay them a lot and maybe think about cloning them.

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                                                      [–]JameGumbsTailor 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                                      In some places “Militarization” of the police is actually saving money for things like you describe. When that militarization is in the form of free stuff from the DoD that police departments no longer need to spend money on.

                                                      [–]Guilty_Jackrabbit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                                                      Yes, but we also need to recognize that "defund the police" was a gift to hardline GOP'ers because of how it sounds. For being the "smart" party, Democrats sure are stupid when it comes to messaging.

                                                      [–]HI_Handbasket 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                      "De-militarize" is a better word, and more difficult to misconstrue.

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                                                        [–]SmartLady 687 points688 points  (69 children)

                                                        I'm in grad school. I'm reading a book about how America built the dream via GI Bill's and Pell Grant's in the mid 20th century and then allowed capitalism to exploit it starting in the 80s. And the results have been a less educated population. This book was published in 2014 so the writer didnt even see Trump coming but wow the direct line from the 80s to now is filled with ugly greedy people. I just dont know where they think this all leads?

                                                        [–]killer_orange_2 357 points358 points  (10 children)

                                                        My 71 year old father always told me as a kid that Regan made greed a virtue.

                                                        [–]goobydoobie 123 points124 points  (6 children)

                                                        Yup. It may have come from a movie but "Greed is Good" is practically the gospel of the US these days.

                                                        I think it has perverted the American mindset. Warping the concept of "the American Dream" and the virtue of ambition into something that is so corrosive to a functional society.

                                                        [–]Ldfzm 35 points36 points  (4 children)

                                                        yeah anytime someone tries to justify doing the less-kind thing because "it's just good business" it makes me really uncomfortable. Just because that's ok with the people you choose to associate with doesn't mean it's ok in general or good for society.

                                                        [–]Audge3841 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                                                        I constantly see people bowing down to people like Trump and Bezos getting around big taxes as if that was a good thing. They really think the dream is hoarding as much wealth as they can

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                                                            [–]Sacto43 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                                                            My awareness of culture begins with Reagan. No wonder why I'm pessimistic.

                                                            [–]Kiwi951 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                            There’s a reason why they call the 80s the “Me” decade

                                                            [–]Bejeezer 50 points51 points  (5 children)

                                                            Share the book! What are you reading?

                                                            [–]SmartLady 96 points97 points  (4 children)

                                                            Degrees of Inequality by Suzanna Mettler.

                                                            It well laid out, great rage reading. I knew most of it vaugly but to see it laid out like it is ooof these fuckers can burn for all I care.

                                                            edit: typo in the book title

                                                            [–]cashnicholas 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                            Great book

                                                            [–]someonepoorsays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                            just bought the book. thanks for sharing!

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                                                              [–]LX_Emergency 28 points29 points  (12 children)

                                                              I'm reading something similar called "a generation of sociopaths". Rage reading is right.

                                                              [–]mister_prince 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                                                              What Is rage reading?

                                                              [–]LX_Emergency 19 points20 points  (1 child)

                                                              Reading something that keeps making you angry...but you still want to keep reading.

                                                              [–]MyHonkyFriend 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                              ahhh. i read a book about American prisons that had me like this

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                                                                [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

                                                                Fuck Ronald Reagan. That piece of shit is responsible in one way or another for all the problems facing America today.

                                                                [–]Love_like_blood 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                                                                I'm reading a book about how America built the dream via GI Bill's and Pell Grant's in the mid 20th century and then allowed capitalism to exploit it starting in the 80s.

                                                                Much of this was made possible and driven by the political philosophy of Neoconservatism an ideology which arose in the post-war era as a reaction to what was deemed "the moral nihilism of Liberalism".

                                                                Neoconservatives propagated a myth that it is necessary for the US to uphold and spread Democracy domestically and around the world. It was really just a lie told to the American public so these politicians could justify wasting tax dollars to continue to protect American corporate interests and oppress the developing world, which also had the intended effect of impoverishing Americans to limit their social influence, and economic and political power, and to coerce them into military service in the hopes they to would perpetuate Neoconservative ideas.

                                                                The documentary seriesThe Trap and The Power of Nightmares provides a great rundown of the rise of Neoconservatism and how public opinion has been shaped and controlled by The Politics of Fear created by Neoconservatives obsessed with Game Theory to justify their paranoid myopic worldview and greed.

                                                                [–]magic_octopus1987 20 points21 points  (5 children)

                                                                And let’s not forget how blacks who served were systematically denied these benefits!

                                                                [–]BwackGul 6 points7 points  (4 children)

                                                                Another awful, great book.. The New Jim Crow.

                                                                [–]magic_octopus1987 10 points11 points  (2 children)

                                                                I have my grandfather’s burial flag. It makes me so angry that he served this country and got none of the benefits. I can’t even get USAA to this day because of this crap.

                                                                [–]surferfear 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                                                You can’t even get USAA? Honestly that’s exactly the kind of thing that I’m willing to log onto Twitter just to help go viral. That’s the saddest thing I saw today. Maybe just because I relate.

                                                                Did you actually know your grandfather while alive? The worst part about racism for me is that people act like it was so long ago. I heard stories about the rapes, the beatings, the following around in stores. Firsthand stories, I didn’t need to see the movies. “How could anyone do that sort of thing to my sweet little grandma” I thought. Didn’t even know what rape was, they didn’t call it that. Then I got older and I realized the only thing a lot of places made progress on was burying the rapes

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                                                                  [–]ILikeLeptons 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Reagan was the tragedy, Trump is the farce

                                                                  [–]watch_over_me 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                                                                  It's almost like those 53 pieces of economical legislation commonly referred to as "Reaganomics" or "Trickle Down Economics" were the worst things to ever happen to our country, bar none.

                                                                  And those 53 pieces of legislation that no single Republican or Democrat has undid, or overturned (even though they could have multiple times), will be screwing us over for hundreds and hundreds of years to come.

                                                                  God bless the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981, Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, and the Tax Reform Act of 1986, lol. Along with the dozens of smaller pieces of legislation that caused this massive crisis we're seeing.

                                                                  Oh, and happy cake day!

                                                                  [–]debo16 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                                                                  Hi grad buddy! Happy cake day! What’s your degree program if I may ask?

                                                                  I’ve been saying this this this! Everyone wants to compare 2020 to the 60’s but what we’re really going through is a repeat of the 80’s. Everyone always wants to blame the Boomers, but Gen X is complicit in the greed culture we have.

                                                                  [–]BwackGul 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Grad school student in my house too, don't forget American Apartheid!

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                                                                    [–]Elaus 338 points339 points  (8 children)

                                                                    Unfortunately, helping doctors and nurses wasn't going to help the GOP win the election. Scaring Betty Sue and Cletus into thinking the big bad dems were going get them was.

                                                                    [–]scottydc91 59 points60 points  (1 child)

                                                                    And look where we are now

                                                                    [–]awall_09 262 points263 points  (23 children)

                                                                    2020 was the year I officially gave up on trusting “The System”, bipartisan issues aside. The moment the CDC said bandanas and scarves were sufficient for PPE I knew we’ve been abandoned. As a medical professional, this hit home. This year shed light on so many things. I hope we can all reflect on this and do better. We must do better.

                                                                    [–]ksquad80 89 points90 points  (3 children)

                                                                    There is no disaster protection. If events like Katrina hadn't already proved that, this emergency has.

                                                                    We are all living under the illusion if safety and abundance.

                                                                    [–]rjoker103 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Doctors that dealt with Katrina said that the scenarios that they were part of was as worse as what a developing country with minimal infrastructure sees. The budget is not spent on where it should be to better citizens’ lives and prepare for future disasters.

                                                                    [–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Similar to how people expect their fulltime job to last them 40 years and put all their money into a nicer car rather than a retirement account.

                                                                    [–]awall_09 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                    We’re all walking on thin glass. Safety and abundance is a guise. I’ve realized the importance of community through this and how a good hearted neighbor goes a long way.

                                                                    [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (13 children)

                                                                    bandanas and scarves were sufficient for PPE

                                                                    As opposed to coughing on someone it's the better option. I do understand your point. Just remember those kind of PSA's are for the general public, not you.

                                                                    [–]rjoker103 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                                                    No. Back in March when the PPE shortages first hit, CDC suggested that doctors and nurses use bandanas or scarves as “makeshift” masks instead of a used mask when caring for patients, so this was not a PSA for the general public.

                                                                    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Important context the other "medical professional" left out.

                                                                    [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (10 children)

                                                                    I believe the latest research showed bandanas and scarves don’t provide any protection. We banned the use of them by the public at my hospital system.

                                                                    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children)

                                                                    So nothing is better than something?

                                                                    [–]saraijs 9 points10 points  (5 children)

                                                                    Nothing is better than the false sense of security provided by an ineffective face covering.

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                                                                          [–]_Vard_ 253 points254 points  (46 children)

                                                                          seriosuly. when people say defund the police

                                                                          they dont mean cut their pay. they mean stop giving them literal war equipment

                                                                          [–]Abydos6 80 points81 points  (2 children)

                                                                          But if they do that, how will the elite be protected from the revolution they know is coming?

                                                                          [–]noahsilv 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Americans pay more for medical care than any country in the world. This isn't a money issue. It's an organization and supply chain issue.

                                                                          [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Demilitarize.

                                                                          [–]ChewbaccasStylist 37 points38 points  (24 children)

                                                                          So why not say that instead?

                                                                          I mean, "defund the police" literally sounds like defund the police.

                                                                          [–]ReverendDizzle 25 points26 points  (5 children)

                                                                          Look I think we've learned over the last 4 years that a whole lot of people can only process three words in sequence, and no more.

                                                                          Lock her up. Drain the swamp. Build the wall.

                                                                          We're already pushing the limits hard enough by using three words and five syllables with "Defund the police."

                                                                          "Stop the paramilitarization of the police force through the reallocation of funds for more efficient public services" is way too many words and includes way too long of words to ever be understood by anybody enraptured with pithy chants like "Lock her up."

                                                                          [–]Jeffrey-Weinerslav 8 points9 points  (4 children)

                                                                          "Demilitarize the police". It's really not that hard.

                                                                          [–]ReverendDizzle 10 points11 points  (3 children)

                                                                          Most people don't even understand that the police have been "militarized" so the slogan might as well be "Defandango the police" for all the average person would understand what that means. Look at how hard they're struggling with "defund the police."

                                                                          [–]Jeffrey-Weinerslav 5 points6 points  (2 children)

                                                                          They've struggled with "defund the police" because it's a scary, ambiguous slogan that raises more questions than it answers. "Demilitarize the police" wouldn't have had any of the same problems. It's straightforward, unambiguous, and describes a solution all protestors can agree on, instead of only a tiny minority of them. Leftists suck at branding, plain and simple.

                                                                          [–]pmcda 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                                          I’m sorry mate but the response would be, “phh the police aren’t militarized. They need that equipment.”

                                                                          I get what you’re saying but it takes two minutes to look up defund the police and another twenty to read what it’s really about. If these people won’t even do that, when others are shouting “that’s not what we mean” then I doubt they’d understand why we want the police “demilitarized”. That’s ambiguous, are we talking equipment? Training? What makes the police militarized?

                                                                          Also, no one is saying to take control of where they spend their money so even if we defunded them, if they chose to spend that more limited budget on the same military grade equipment or psychology training then “demilitarize the police” would have failed even if “defund the police” succeeded. Defund the police is saying “they have more budget than they need.”

                                                                          That budget can go to different service professionals better fit for the circumstances. Once that’s happened, the police can choose to spend what they have however they want, even if what they want is armored vehicles and machine guns.

                                                                          On a side note, does anyone know if civil forfeiture is still a thing? Because knowing the cops have used money taken that way to buy slushie machines doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence that defunding them will make our lives better if they’re now taking that money from suspected innocents

                                                                          [–]leodavin843 40 points41 points  (4 children)

                                                                          Because that's what defund means. Take away funding. That doesn't have to mean take away literally all funding, despite the right wing conflating it as such.

                                                                          [–]Jeffrey-Weinerslav 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                                                          It very much seems to imply taking away all funding on first blush though, and some people literally use the phrase to advocate for that. It's just bad, misleading branding, there's no way around it.

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                                                                            [–]LiveFromJupiter 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                            I completely agree with you. The defund the police phrase is really about diverting police funds to more appropriate areas and demilitarizing police, but the actual phrase itself leaves too much room for misinterpretation.

                                                                            The same thing happened during the Trump impeachment trials when the people testifying kept mentioning a “drug deal” taking place. Obviously no drugs were dealt, as they were referring to the nature of the quid pro quo. But, semantics really really matter.

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                                                                              [–]ComfortableSimple3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                              you need to come up with a better slogan then

                                                                              [–]whipped_dream 6 points7 points  (5 children)

                                                                              Care to comment on this collection of headlines from non-right wing outlets disagreeing with you?

                                                                              Many, many, many people do absolutely mean defunding and dismantling the police completely. You can say that's not the case all you want, but when the literal slogan is "defund the police", do you really think everyone's on board with "oh but it actually means reduce the pay of certain departments and don't supply them with military grade equipment blah blah"? No, people will take it as "take funding away from police", which is what it means.

                                                                              Same reason why the black lives matter slogan has so many detractors (well, one of the big reasons). Not because people don't think black people's lives matter, but because the slogan is worded in such a way (purposefully in my opinion) to suggest that only black lives matter or that black lives matter more.

                                                                              People say "no, it means that black lives matter too", but if your slogan requires a footnote to be clearly understood and not misinterpreted in a divisive or radical way, then it's either not a good slogan or it means exactly what it's supposed to mean.

                                                                              [–]cakedestroyer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                              So because there are people that take an idea to an extreme, the entire idea gets thrown out?

                                                                              I think to argue that those two are the intended and, more importantly, commonly meant meanings is an incredibly bad faith argument.

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                                                                                  [–]toolargo 145 points146 points  (25 children)

                                                                                  None of us will. What I will never forget is how we were all “in it, together!”, Until statistics showed that mostly poor, black, and hispanic people were dying. Then it changed to “we must re-open now! For the good of the economy!”. That and children locked in cages while their parents were simultaneously being deported, will hunt me for the rest of my days.

                                                                                  How powerless I felt in the face of real injustice. I will never forget that feeling.

                                                                                  [–]hateuscusanus 34 points35 points  (10 children)

                                                                                  Does the tweeter need to be white for this sub?

                                                                                  [–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (8 children)

                                                                                  That's literally rule 1 of the subreddit, but rules don't matter on reddit if you're not white.

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                                                                                    [–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                                                                                    Cool tweet but uh

                                                                                    She ain’t white, wrong sub chief

                                                                                    [–]ArilynMoonblade 18 points19 points  (2 children)

                                                                                    Were? Has the situation for doctors improved?

                                                                                    [–]ferrocarrilusa 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                                                    Healthcare workers are the new soldiers in 2020.

                                                                                    [–]writemaddness 39 points40 points  (0 children)

                                                                                    BuT i StiLl DoNt UnDeRsTaNd WhY pEoPlE vOtEd FoR bIdEn

                                                                                    Because we fucking hate Trump

                                                                                    [–]vintagecitrus39 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                                                                                    Wait did the police not already have that riot gear? Genuinely curious cuz I thought they didn’t have money and were just using gear they had bought in the past

                                                                                    [–]scottydc91 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                                                                                    No many police departments got funding increases this year, I know my local department just got 12 new cars, 3 new swat vehicles and a ton of expensive riot gear, even though I live in a small town

                                                                                    [–]AlwaysTheNextOne 8 points9 points  (10 children)

                                                                                    Isn't this kind of an apples to oranges thing? Police have rifles and body armor because they tend to be shot at often. Doctors don't really have to deal with the plague too often.

                                                                                    We could have and should have been better prepared for covid-19, but comparing these two is a pretty silly stretch.

                                                                                    Not to mention they way PPE is tossed after use, whereas police gear is a repeat use for years thing.

                                                                                    [–]tuffmuffin420 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                                                                                    Doctors work for hospitals which are privately owned and fund themselves correct? And police departments are funded by tax dollars because they are owned by state. I don’t see how you can make the comparison when police officers and doctors get their funds from different sources.

                                                                                    [–]Happpie 10 points11 points  (3 children)

                                                                                    I mean, we’re talking about a pandemic here. They’re dealing with 10x the amount of patients they’re used to, and because it’s the medical field almost nothing is reusable and needs to be thrown away and replaced very frequently. Also the amount of staff they had using said materials is quite astounding in comparison to the amount of police driving around with riot gear in their trunk.

                                                                                    So basically every hospital in the country is trying to restock all their shit as best as possible effectively draining the nations stock.

                                                                                    The police buy the riot gear once, rarely ever use it, and when they do they can put it away and reuse it later, many times over in fact. So in the grand scheme of things, it’s not a wild concept to see the police with the gear they have. Especially when you consider all the giant expensive machines they use in hospitals, hospitals are spending $1m per machine sometimes, an expense police departments don’t have to deal with.

                                                                                    [–]helicoid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                                    Thank you. If police officers had to throw their riot gear in the trash after they used it they'd run out pretty freaking quick too.

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                                                                                      [–]Mudslinger6464 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      Posts like this remind me of that old quote from the great Rob Schneider. Goes something like "Get outside and go see your neighbor, you'll realize really quick that everything's not as bad as the news makes it seem." Yes, stuff was bad but come on WW3? Trash bags? Really. Let's post shit to out people in fear for more followers!

                                                                                      [–]bubadmt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      Who gives a shit.. stop being so dramatic all the time, it's getting old. It is what it is.

                                                                                      [–]drmjsp 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                                                      Body armor won’t protect you from covid!

                                                                                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      People make a lot of claims. I don't know what is true. What I don't like about protesting, is it does nothing but make people feel good, while doing nothing. Do something with goals in mind.

                                                                                      [–]FILTER_OUT_T_D 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      Is she talking about a specific incident? I feel like I’m out of the loop.

                                                                                      [–]randominternetnormie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      That's a pretty apples to oranges comparison

                                                                                      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      I agree, doctors deserve m4s and tactical vests

                                                                                      [–]wonkey_monkey 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                                      So is this just now /r/peopletwitter?

                                                                                      [–]SatansSwingingDick 55 points56 points  (48 children)

                                                                                      False equivalency, Jesus christ.

                                                                                      PPE is disposable, and is supposed to be changed after every single patient contact or room entry.

                                                                                      Police gear is not disposable, is kept for years upon years, and there aren't more than a couple dozen to a few hundred sets of riot gear depending on the size of department.

                                                                                      The police gear was bought years ago, and suppliers have more available just sitting in warehouses to meet the average demand.

                                                                                      PPE was in record-setting demand, and is bought weekly, if not daily. Manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand and there was a market shortage.

                                                                                      I hope this woman didn't get these critical thinking skills from a college.

                                                                                      [–]-v-fib- 24 points25 points  (19 children)

                                                                                      Can confirm as far as the medical PPE goes. I was given an N95 to keep in my locker 5 years ago and never used it up until the pandemic started. We had plenty of supplies for average day use, but it was an almost overnight change to go from using basic PPE (gloves and safety glasses) when treating patients to requiring an N95, gown, and face shield on every single patient a week later. Maybe planning could have prevented this but the demand for medical gear shot up almost overnight, and we burned through backstock in weeks.

                                                                                      [–]scottydc91 32 points33 points  (7 children)

                                                                                      My local department spent nearly $20m on new equipment they didn't need in the first place

                                                                                      [–]sunjester 11 points12 points  (2 children)

                                                                                      This is what these people do not understand. The United States has literally militarized our police forces in a way that is wasteful and completely unnecessary. The only difference between that and the military budget is that our police instead get to use military-grade equipment on our own citizens, including using weapons that are literally banned in warfare. It's fucking ridiculous.

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                                                                                        [–]Strumalicious 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                                                                        These people who make these broad statements have never been involved in supply chain and it shows.

                                                                                        [–]MorningaleOntheBayou 35 points36 points  (12 children)

                                                                                        Doesn't fit Reddit's narrative tho.

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                                                                                          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          And gas station cashiers second-guessed MDs

                                                                                          [–]uncle_jessie 3 points4 points  (1 child)

                                                                                          And don't forget about teachers buying their own supplies for their classes.

                                                                                          [–]yloswg678 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Yeah. It’s almost like doctors have a lot of one time use things. That’s like saying “I can’t get insulin but i can get Advil. I will absolutely never forget that”

                                                                                          [–]Somethingnewboogaloo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Someone report this white person, she's wearing blackface!

                                                                                          [–]renob151 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Most Medical PPE is single-use, riot gear lasts for years...

                                                                                          [–]Elon-mute-your-mic 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          And we had terrorist in the streets

                                                                                          [–]Bad_Drawer01 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          I remember when this sub used to be fun.

                                                                                          [–]pacman4r 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Why is this on white people twitter when the tweeter looks black?

                                                                                          [–]santichrist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          If you voted for joe “shoot black people in the legs instead” biden feel free to explain his promise to give police $100 million dollars if he’s elected, after he and Obama helped militarize the police during their years in office lmao he’s not defunding shit because he’s a conservative and they love cops, which Kamala happens to be

                                                                                          Wonder when these people will wake the fuck up about their two party system

                                                                                          [–]gettingassy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          That's not a white person so can that be posted here?

                                                                                          [–]clinically_cynical 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Reductionist comparison. Police probably get too much money to spend on equipment, but the doctors were poorly outfitted due to supply shortages not lack of funding.

                                                                                          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          The premier of my province in Canada donated all of our good n95 masks to other provinces so he looks good in the future when he tries to run for Prime Minister. The masks were then replaced with ultra cheap ones from China. The he cut medical staff wages, fired Dr’s across the entire province, and just generally fucked our healthcare system so he can abolish universal healthcare, and replace it with a privatized healthcare system that him and his homies are directly invested in. Canadian politics aren’t much better.

                                                                                          [–]Dirtbaag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                                          Failure to be prepared results from a lack of good leadership. Lots of ex military in law enforcement vs lots of MBA’s who took a class on leadership. Results will vary.

                                                                                          [–]sunking3000 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                                                                                          Look, if anything is going to be done we need to DROP the "defund" tag. Simple as that.

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