Adam Johnson: Arrest over ice hockey player's death

Will_Ozellman · 2023-11-14T17:15:15+00:00

A post-mortem examination confirmed Johnson died as a result of a fatal neck injury, South Yorkshire Police said.

Thanks, Detective.

Firebitez · 2023-11-14T16:33:41+00:00

How long until we get the locked award?

kralben · 2023-11-14T17:23:58+00:00

It is probably already too late, but I am begging people to not think of this as the US Justice system. The UK system is fundamentally different and spouting off your uninformed legal takes isn't gonna help.

Minimum_Possibility6 · 2023-11-14T16:41:31+00:00

This might not be Petgrave but the Health and safety officer for the arena, or whoever was responsible for having the correct medical provision on site.

Although it probably is petgrave

Purplebuzz · 2023-11-14T17:55:06+00:00

It’s amazing how many experts on the English legal system we have on r/hockey.

Semaaaj · 2023-11-14T16:58:37+00:00

Okay - so I'll ask the question.

Preface: I've played hockey for 20+ years. I don't think he meant to kick him in the neck or significantly injure him. I've discussed this with a ton of hockey people.

I watch the video, and the only way I can see someone's leg truly swinging the way it did is if you catch an edge on your plant foot, which it didn't appear to me like thay happened. There is definitely a chance it was truly some sort of weird movement situation, but to me it seemed incredibly unnatural.

I wondered if he made an attempt to stick his leg out and interfere with Johnson's skating path. Not dissimilar to a knee-on-knee when missing a check (sometimes intentional and sometimes not). I've thought about it and it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Is there a chance he is being charged because it is viewed as a completely reckless play (with an outcome no one could have imagined) and the intent it to plead it down but to have some sort of negligence charge stick?

Again, not saving this outcome was intentional. Not saying he deserves a manslaughter charge (he does not). If I am correct, he likely thought 2 minutes in the box would be the worst outcome, which I think 99.9% of people in that moment would expect the same.

MaartjeB99 · 2023-11-14T16:29:33+00:00

I really hope this is just so the police can say they've gone through the formal process and can clear his name... then maybe he can do smth (cease and desist, or slander laws) about all the vile accusations being made against him. I'm not familiar with the uk legal system but I really hope it's just a formality

creamsauces · 2023-11-14T18:08:11+00:00

I know nobody’s gonna read this and honestly that’s probably for the best. But I don’t have hockey fan friends in real life so I’m gonna weigh in for no reason other than to get it out into the void because it seems to be such an unpopular opinion here and I feel weird about that.

I am a defense attorney. I spend basically every day of my life with people who have been charged with crimes, many of them who are guilty. Every thread I’ve seen on Reddit that is any way related to criminal action is riddled with misunderstandings and people confidently espousing things they can’t reasonably have a real opinion on.

Because of my job I have a lot of empathy for people that have made mistakes. Nearly all of them are aware that they made a bad decision in a given situation. “Intent” is a tricky legal concept because intending to do something doesn’t mean you intend the outcome and things very easily become conflated. Their lives are forever changed for something that they never “intended”.

I say all this because against my better judgment I watched the video, and despite like many of you growing up playing hockey since age 4 and being familiar with all manners of slips and trips, I can’t honestly conclude that I don’t see an intentional kick. I gasped when I first saw it after reading all the discourse here. It’s a crappy video that looks like a purposeful kick to me.

I don’t write this because I’m happy he’s been arrested, and I would never presume or assume he intended the outcome. I’ve had clients that intentionally started a fight, or even just ran a red light, which then led to horrifying consequences. I don’t want nor do I guess this would lead to an eventual conviction. But the discourse here about it being clearly this or obviously that is maddening.

I don’t practice in the UK and I won’t pretend to be able to apply all of my background to it 1 to 1. But in the US, I would be floored if that video did not lead to an arrest. That’s without including any of the likely interviews they’ve conducted with teammates. If it’s exculpatory great. if not…well things could get a lot worse.

I’m not saying he’s guilty. I’m not even saying he deserves punitive measures. I’m probably a dream juror for a defense attorney akin to Dave Chappelle in the Michael Jackson trial skit. What I am saying is that the people here or on Twitter that confidently think they know what did happen or what is going to happen (or worse, are spreading racist conspiracy theories) are wishcasting at best. Don’t go looking for morality in legal outcomes. Being found not guilty or charges not being brought does not mean that you’re innocent, and being found guilty doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. There will be no satisfying outcome to this ugly incident.

Tracktoy · 2023-11-14T16:44:27+00:00

Im going to get downvoted for this, whatever.

I have been involved in a coroners inquest, including a sporting death, motorcycle racing in the UK. My statement reflected my belief that the rider in question acted recklessly and it led to another riders death, and another's life changing injury. I didn't believe it was intentional. The rider was not charged/arrested nor did he have his name associated with the word manslaughter. It was classified as misadventure.

For this player to be arrested ...I have to believe multiple people testified to the fact that it seemed a bit odd, and that the player made a decision which led to this outcome.

I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong.

HockeyHippo · 2023-11-14T16:28:40+00:00

Looked like a freak accident to me. How could this be considered manslaughter?

2023-11-14T17:07:03+00:00

[removed]

LgDietCoke · 2023-11-14T17:16:57+00:00

Idk how people disagree that the play was kind of suspect. Not saying he was going for the neck but that leg certainly seemed to come around with intention for impact.

KingVikram · 2023-11-14T17:00:33+00:00

I 100% do not believe that Matt Petgrave set out to murder Adam Johnson.

I 100% do believe that Matt Petgrave set out to be a shithead and do a shithead action. An action that took a life.

He needs to receive punishment.

leastpenguin · 2023-11-14T17:04:27+00:00

Apparently redditors think things just… shouldn’t be investigated thoroughly because emotions?

xSTLxCody · 2023-11-14T17:07:11+00:00

Reading these comments I’ve learned that maybe- we the hockey community just aren’t very intelligent people.

Butthole_on_my_face · 2023-11-14T17:41:45+00:00

The fact Petgrave is known as the dirtiest player in that league certainly isn’t helping his case if he’s the one who has been arrested.

StewieRayVaughan · 2023-11-14T16:43:23+00:00

What I find fascinating is how everyone is so quick to dismiss any kind of intent from Pergrave based on a single pixelated video. Even then, in the clip his leg does go up in a weird way. I'm sure the league has access to better clips from the incident. Obviously the player didn't mean to slash Johnson's throat, but if he did purposely initiate contact with his skate, and it resulted in a player death, obviously he's gonna get prosecuted, as he should. It's not about UK law being draconian or whatever. Had this happened in the US or Canada, the same thing wouldve happened.

BangYourHead · 2023-11-14T17:19:32+00:00

Genuinely pretty surprised by this, even Adam's teammates made statements supporting Petgrave

papapaIpatine · 2023-11-14T16:35:59+00:00

What I'm fascinated about is that in the scenario that this goes to criminal trial, what the makeup of expert testimony is going to be.

NopeNotUmaThurman · 2023-11-14T17:52:38+00:00

Since none of the reports mention who was arrested (apparently the norm in UK for this sort of fact-finding phase of a death investigation) it seems really odd that so many people are braying gleefully about Petgrave. The police were talking to team medical staff, too.

TigerKneeMT · 2023-11-14T16:44:18+00:00

The twitter replies to this BBC article are disgusting

romanswinter · 2023-11-14T17:39:22+00:00

I am in my 40s and have been watching hockey since I was a little kid. When I first heard this story, and the uproar from the non hockey community at large about what happened, I assumed it was just people unfamiliar with hockey overreacting to a terrible accident. I never bothered to watch the video of what happened.

But now that I just read the person was arrested, I had to watch the video because I just couldn't believe that would happen. Upon watching the video, I can honestly say I have NEVER seen anything like that EVER in a hockey game. That dude straight up tried to roundhouse the guy. I am certain he did not intend to kill Johnson, but I have never seen a more clear case of using a skate as a deadly weapon.

Now obviously I haven't watched every hockey game in existence, but I've never seen a player do a kick to the head like that. It seems like an unpopular opinion around here, but I fully support the police arresting this guy and I hope he gets charged and faces his day in court.

Constant-Squirrel555 · 2023-11-14T18:01:26+00:00

Such a fucked up situation

Neither_Detail8608 · 2023-11-14T16:48:14+00:00

All of a sudden everyone in the comments is a lawyer

GangreneMachine · 2023-11-14T17:27:31+00:00

No matter what happens, even if Petgrave is released and no charges are made, his life is effectively ruined. It will cling to his name like a disease forever. Such an unfortunate situation.

Even if he made a reckless decision, it had extreme and unprecedented consequences. It reminds me of that story where the two guys randomly threw a rock off the side of a mountain and it struck a climber in the head and killed him instantly.

kristianroberts · 2023-11-14T16:29:37+00:00

Just said in another thread, if this is Petgrave it’s devastating. I thought this would be an outcome given English law, I doubt anyone connected with the sport would think a potential conviction of manslaughter is justice.

Western_Cheetah_5309 · 2023-11-14T16:31:31+00:00

I’m not familiar with UK law, does an arrest imply criminal charges too?

NoFuqsTaken69 · 2023-11-14T18:15:51+00:00

When comparing this case to the Zednik case, and also the case of the hall of famer who suffered the same injury in the 80s but lived whose name escapes me; I found it really quite stunning the complete lack of urgency being taken on by the referee, and the lack of urgency with which any seemingly qualified medical personnel performed the appropriate procedures, in the Adam Johnson case.

I recall that Zednik immediately skated over to a waiting medical trainer, who immediately did the thing, and I’m not sure if Zednik ever even lost consciousness before going into surgery. The other NHL player, the hall of famer, I distinctly remember the speed with which I think it was actually the visiting trainer who rushed over to him, did the thing, and saved his life. Tangentially related, it is the same urgency by medical personnel at the highest level who also saved Damar Hamlin’s life in the NFL last year. [EDIT: on YouTube you can find a recording of the combined medical staff’s radio transmissions for about three minutes of that ordeal. At one point, someone can be heard calling out another medical staffer by name, telling them they are too slow and they need to pick up the pace. This was seconded by another person on the radio. Talk about literal life-saving accountability.]

This is an injury which you can and will absolutely survive, but your life is 100% out of your own hands at that point. And if this is England’s highest or second highest level of hockey, then I’d argue they need to have the same kind of urgency that is seen successfully time and time again in American top tier sports.

Purplebuzz · 2023-11-14T16:38:00+00:00

I was assured by this sub this was not a possibility.

Newpower608 · 2023-11-14T17:24:24+00:00

Why are people surprised about this?

PeterG92 · 2023-11-14T16:43:27+00:00

I hope someone is looking after Petgrave as I dread to think what he is going through right now.

squashed_tomato · 2023-11-14T17:21:13+00:00

I just wanted to add that the individual has been arrested but not charged with anything at this point. Basically they are just at the holding for questioning stage which can last up to 3 days if they request an extension to hold him for the full 3 days. This will also likely be why the press haven't named the individual. If charged then the name would be released.

Guilty_Fox2043 · 2023-11-14T17:40:23+00:00

I do think its worth reinforcing the fact that arrest in the UK is very different to arrest in the US.

In the UK you are arrested 'on suspicion' of an offence having occured, primarily to secure evidence by means of formal questioning.It's fairly common to be asked to attend a police station, formally arrested and cautioned, questioned and bailed (promise to appear, no cash bond) within a few hours. You must be released, bailed or charged within 24 hours of arrest.Police do not make the decision to charge you, that is done on the advice of a crown prosecution solicitor (sort of like a district attorney).

There is no dragging you straight off to jail for a few days to await a judge once arrested. That comes later if charged.

In this case, if it is Petgrave, it may well be the case that the police could believe there is potentially something the incident that may amount to manslaughter, so have formally arrested him to question him under caution.

*edits for grammar

world_citizen7 · 2023-11-14T18:01:09+00:00

Very difficult to understand if they player or someone else is being charged. Another article on ESPN: https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/\_/id/38896995/man-arrested-suspicion-manslaughter-adam-johnson-death

loco_canadian · 2023-11-14T16:33:12+00:00

What the actual fuck?

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