×
top 200 commentsshow 500

[–]Cleverbird 127 points128 points  (18 children)

The tone of this feels so strange... Felt like I was watching a trailer for a new, more down-to-earth Saints Row game.

[–]I_AM_ETHAN_BRADBERRY 115 points116 points  (9 children)

That's what Watch Dogs has become. 2 really leaned into the absurdity of the concept. The problem with that game though is it made no sense for a bunch of Silicon Valley millenial hactavists to be going on killing sprees through San Francisco.

In this one the use of violence/deadly force at least seems more conceptually appropriate against a background of government oppression/terrorism/social revolution

[–]Nex_Antonius 45 points46 points  (2 children)

To their credit, they did end up adding more non-lethal weapons to the game later on.

[–]eoinster 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wait was that not all in the game from the start? I kind of viewed that as a core part of the game when I played it, crazy to me that they never considered a non-lethal playstyle for launch.

[–]TragedyTrousers 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Non-lethal was in the game from the start, yeah, they just added more weapons for it, like a grenade launcher style taser. Breaking people's skulls with a yoyo was always the most fun "non-lethal" option and that was in it from the start.

[–]Tencer386 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Been replaying it over the last few days playing Non-lethal on the highest difficulty and it really ties the game together doing that. There is a lot less dissonance between the gameplay and the narrative and it forces you to actually come up interesting solutions and not put Marcus in the line of fire unless absolutely necessary, which is exactly how someone of his skill set should tackle things.

[–][deleted] 358 points359 points  (55 children)

Launch date is October 29th according to their twitter

[–]Daveed84 192 points193 points  (16 children)

Oh man, between this and Valhalla and Cyberpunk 2077, November is going to be a very unproductive month for me

[–]AndlisOriville 53 points54 points  (1 child)

I dunno man.. I'd call it very productive!

Saves sitting scratching my nuts while watching TV - that is unproductive.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Valhalla is taking the backseat since it releases only 2 days before Cyberpunk. Since WD is at the end of October I might have the time to play it

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (15 children)

Wow. I figured this was a Spring 2021 game for sure. This is a big surprise.

[–]reddicommen 40 points41 points  (13 children)

It's had a Q3 or Q4 calendar 2020 release date from an Ubisoft investors' call a long time ago

[–]Alastor3 35 points36 points  (11 children)

i mean, it was supposed to released in Q1 this year, but was pushed back because of Breakpoint controversy

[–]berkayde 5 points6 points  (9 children)

What controversy?

[–]NamerNotLiteral 54 points55 points  (7 children)

Breakpoint was a flop, and Ubi realized they were basically churning out game after game without actually innovating, simply adding MTX.

So Ubi delayed basically every single game they had in production at the time.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Are you saying... They responded to critical backlash for their bullshit and stopped and are trying to make a good game again? Well NOW I'm interested

[–]DimlightHero 6 points7 points  (0 children)

A year ago at E3 it had a March 6 2020 release date.

[–]WriterRyanG 576 points577 points  (41 children)

OK.

So British company make GTA set in America.

French company make Watch Dogs set in the UK

Now we just need Volition to make Saints Row set in France.

Complete the trifecta.

[–]CaspianRoach 229 points230 points  (5 children)

Now we just need Volition to make Saints Row set in France.

Well, the symbol of Saints Row is fleur de lis, which is strongly associated with France since it was on their royal coat of arms.

[–]NeiloMac 24 points25 points  (1 child)

La Rangée des Saints

[–]RyanB_ 61 points62 points  (18 children)

French company, but Canadian developers.

Give me my urban crime game set in Canada, you cowards

[–]ikeafreak 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Pandemic made Saboteur which was set in Paris.

[–]AdamNW 713 points714 points  (57 children)

In case anyone was curious, the director of the cinematic trailer is Alberto Mielgo, who worked on Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse, and also directed "The Witness" from Love Death and Robots. If you liked that trailer, I'd definitely check out that short on Netflix.

[–]BrainWav 96 points97 points  (2 children)

I knew it felt familiar, that's pretty cool.

[–]Sylverstone14 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Was thinking the same thing. Even went and rewatched the Miles scene a bit to compare.

[–]LucasOe 75 points76 points  (0 children)

The Witness was probably my favorite epsisode, just because of the artstyle alone. Really happy to see more from Alberto Mielgo.

[–]xeno325 32 points33 points  (0 children)

He also said they didn't use any mocap on that short film. Crazy how fluid the movements were.

[–]TAJack1 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I thought that looked familiar, I was wrapping my brain on where I saw that style. Definitely Love, Death and Robots.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (9 children)

I personally felt that trailer was way too noisy and distracting.

[–]dadvader 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think it's intentional to represented how the 'new' london feel.

[–]iceburg77779 458 points459 points  (88 children)

I really hope Ubisoft uses the npc idea to its full potential. Playing as anyone, working together to overthrow a greater power is not an incredibly original story, but tying it together with the gameplay could make something great.

[–]boris957 78 points79 points  (11 children)

i suggest watching ACG 3 hours first impressions, what he said about the game really hyped me.

[–]Spyder638 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I watched half this trailer (before the gameplay presentation started). Seen ACG's review and honestly he seemed buzzing about it. Sounds like they may have really pulled off something great with the "hire anyone" system. Anyway, come back to this video for the second half and I'm pretty excited now.

[–]NYstate 2 points3 points  (3 children)

There was a game made a long time ago for PC and Dreamcast by David Cage called Omikron: The Nomad Soul. In it you played a character that when you died your "soul", the nomad one, transfer into another body. It had soundtrack with by David Bowie has guess appearances David Bowie and a pretty good story from what I remember.

So because it's a David Cage game, it was pretty half-baked and didn't follow up on the core concepts. I always wanted someone to make a game with the same (or similar) play as multiple protagonists. Hopefully this delivers.

[–]SoulCruizer 177 points178 points  (60 children)

This is Ubisoft though. So it definitely won’t use its full potential.

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (14 children)

Pretty sure the developers are pretty proud of their work. I just talked with some staff of this game for an interview in a site I work about the cases inside Ubi for the allegations the company had and asked about their work.

And I say that because in many times those people would say while anonymous that they think the game sucks, but they are proud of WDL.

[–]PeterJakeson 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean they're proud of every game they work, so that doesn't mean the game is going to be groundbreaking or unlike anything we've ever seen before.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (6 children)

When does a developer sent to speak about a new game not appear this way?

Ubisoft is the most infamous studio for bullshots, and bait & switch trailers.

I'm sure this will be good, but it won't be what they've shown off today.

[–]Firmament1 95 points96 points  (3 children)

I remember Yahtzee praising Shadow of Mordor's nemesis system, because of how you were able to sort of create your own little stories about killing a particular orc that you had a bone to pick with, as well as the way the orcs had some interplay between each other depending on what they were doing. I feel like this game is built exactly for this type of gameplay.

[–]SlendyIsBehindYou 21 points22 points  (1 child)

God the dynamic storytelling in that game is on par with Space Station 13. I have countless stories of Orcs that I developed heated rivalries with. There was one that I traded back and forth with from the start of the game for a good majority of the story before finally putting him dow

[–]KoosPetoors 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My absolute favorite twist in Shadow of War wasn't even a story one, it was heading into the epic final battle and seeing the orc I had a huge rivalry with for half the game return from the dead for one last hurrah and hot damn was it a memorable last fight against him.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Even if different characters don't end up feeling massively different, I like the idea of progressing as certain characters, developing my own "story" for them and such.

[–]Felix_Dracul 270 points271 points  (30 children)

Some characters shown in the trailer seems to be easter eggs from other franchises right? The hitman looks a lot like Léon (the narrator even say he's a bit of a "professional"). And the spy looks like Eggsy from Kingsman too. I feel like there are going to be some special characters that you could unlock.

[–]Rooonaldooo99 274 points275 points  (50 children)

I got heavy John Wick vibes from that Hitman. If we can actually do those moves that would be sick af.

[–][deleted] 380 points381 points  (12 children)

They literally used the song that plays during the club chase in John Wick 1.

That is John Wick.

[–]SunnyWynter 145 points146 points  (3 children)

Even the environment, which was a bath house, was also used in the gameplay section.

[–]Battleharden 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Exactly what came to my mind when I saw the bath house.

[–]staluxa 70 points71 points  (4 children)

That is John Wick.

Watch Dogs 2 had an insane amount of pop culture references (especially to movies), won't surprise me if they do it all over again.

[–]riegspsych325 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I loved it when Marcus and Wrench briefly discussed Ridley Scott xenomorphs and James Cameron xenomorphs

[–]LiberalDomination 122 points123 points  (1 child)

It actually even used John Wick music haha

[–]SyleSpawn 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The fact that they didn't "drop the bass" made me feel so anxious that I had to look up the actual John Wick scene from Youtube to get my fill. lol

[–]Alpha-Trion 73 points74 points  (2 children)

The music is actually from John Wick, the guy looked like him and the executions were very John Wick. Pretty cool I guess.

[–]xepa105 12 points13 points  (1 child)

And he was laying flowers on a grave. Reference to John's dead wife.

[–]geraldho 29 points30 points  (3 children)

I know! those executions look fucking sickk

[–]Daveed84 14 points15 points  (3 children)

For real. That just made me want a whole John Wick-style game

[–]Goofball-John-McGee 5 points6 points  (0 children)

SAME

I need a whole game of only that John Wick Leon The Professional dude

[–]vague-a-bond 20 points21 points  (1 child)

It's Leon: the professional, with Wicks moves

[–]nitefang 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I mean the model looks like a combination of Wick and Leon. The glasses and shape of the face look like Leon to me but the hair style, beard, outfit and body shape are more like Wick.

[–]snakeh1ps 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't have a pencil execution.

[–]dbrnx21 7 points8 points  (0 children)

From what I've seen I'm really looking forward to the combat. I know majority of people liked the change in direction of AC combat but for me it sacrificed that feeling of being a master assassin (like an ancient John Wick). This looks like it might fill that gap and I also really like the different fighting styles depending on who you play as.

[–]UnclePaull 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I think its John Wick.

[–]kiddoujanse 15 points16 points  (1 child)

its clearly copying john wick but its not, if it was they would of used it as advertisement

[–]RyanB_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’m glad a game finally had the balls to add a John Wick class

[–]chaosfire235 141 points142 points  (14 children)

Man, I am so excited for this one. The variability just looks so fun. I know people are concerned that no set character means we won't get attached, but that just means I gotta keep careful with my favorites and develop them. Like I get plenty attached to my XCOM soldiers, and this looks to be similar.

Also, they leaned into the John Wick-ness with the hitman hard lol

[–]Rob_Cram 68 points69 points  (9 children)

I think XCOM style attachment to your team is the correct thinking here. I believe once they are killed that's it for them.

[–]Smallgenie549 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Definitely playing on Hard. I want consequences for my deaths

[–]windfall259 18 points19 points  (3 children)

It's even better than the system they showed in 2019.

Before it was a default option and if your team wiped you roll a new set of operatives and continue the game as if nothing happened.

But now, permadeath is a separate difficulty mode you can enable. There is a true game over/failstate when your entire team is wiped. So yeah, real good XCOM stuff going on here.

[–]Static-Jak 141 points142 points  (39 children)

Sounds like they might have changed the main story setting a bit?

I could be wrong, I don't have enough info but it originally sounded like they where using Brexit, or more like something like Brexit as a focus? This seems a lot tamer.

Even the main "villain" seems to be comically villain.

[–]chaosfire235 120 points121 points  (5 children)

I can see that. The early trailers kinda made it seem that the UK itself had gone full authoritarian surveillance state, with their soldiers and cops oppressing people. I mean it still looks along that line, but it's been offloaded more onto a PMC with a scheming villain that I wouldn't be surprised actually setup that terrorist attack.

[–]Jamessuperfun 46 points47 points  (3 children)

They did fairly clearly distinguish between the police and PMC before, hinting at the police effectively losing power. This could just be a trailer more focused on that aspect of the story, as the government would have to put them in place to begin with.

[–]TheAlterEggo 48 points49 points  (2 children)

I don't think anything has changed at all. It's been my impression that the notion of Watch Dogs Legion being about Brexit was largely journalists and various internet comments seeing what the want to see during E3 of last year. Back then, I think the only mention of Brexit to come directly from Ubisoft is the creative director making a mild, topical reference to it as a modern turning point in London during the press conference presentation, yet the game itself was still shown to be concerned with digital surveillance as did previous Watch Dog games. The official website has been summarizing the game with this blurb since the beginning:

London's facing its downfall courtesy of state surveillance, private military, and organized crime. Recruit a well-rounded resistance to overthrow the wankers ruining this once-great city. The fate of London lies with you.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yeah I never got the Brexit parallels people were seeing tbh. I know the UK press jumped on it, but a lot of them try to make everything about Brexit don’t they, like remember during the election Sky had a Brexit free news channel or show so people could get away from it?

I’m excited for this anyway. I’ve never played Watch Dogs and I’m not really arsed about the play as anyone mechanic. I’m just looking forward to an open world game set in London. Combat looks cool as well.

[–]J_NewCastle 71 points72 points  (18 children)

Well the protests seem to be caused by brexit. Then the terrorist attacks. So I assume brexit is still a focus, just wasn't focused in on in this trailer.

[–]Static-Jak 46 points47 points  (17 children)

Yeah I suppose. It just seemed like the focus was that Brexit lead to a more authoritarian government with surveillance state being a big point.

With DedSec being a reaction to that.

Now it seems like the focus has shifted a little to this new villain. If I had to guess, it'll be revealed he was the one who secretly set up the terrorist attack as a power grab.

Just seems like during the delay they might have shifted focus on the story. Not saying that's bad, I have no idea since I haven't played it, just an observation is all.

[–]YeahSureAlrightYNot 28 points29 points  (13 children)

Ubisoft tries really hard to be apolitical in basically every game.

[–]RyanB_ 23 points24 points  (10 children)

Not just them, unfortunately. I remember the Modern Warfare developers released a video saying they were going to “avoid politics”, since they didn’t want to offend anyone I guess.

And it’s like, guys, the name of your game is Modern Warfare ffs, I don’t think you’re going to avoid politics.

Same with this. If your priority is to be a mass-appealing, inoffensive game, fine, but don’t use so much direct protest/revolution imagery and framing please. If you don’t have anything to say, don’t use important and controversial real life issues as a theme for your playground.

[–]charredcoal 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I hate how Ubisoft constantly pulls punches and refuses to make serious, nuanced games.

With this new watchdogs it seems like they had a real opportunity to comment on authoritarian and oppressive governments and libertarian values / resistance but instead they choose to pussy out and put a comical evil-guy as the main antagonist and all this lighthearted friendly fun that completely ruins it

They even tried to use the "first they came for..." holocaust poem to give the trailer some gravitas but completely butchered it. It feels like the devs came up with a nuanced story with meaningful social commentary and the execs cockblocked them.

[–]UnholyCalls 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's kind of a shame too. When they first mentioned him, and he first gave his speech about "not letting anyone get in the way, not even himself" I was like ok, I guess he's supposed to be a well intentioned extremist type. He genuinely believes a stranglehold of security will protect Britain from the terrorist and probably sees you as a legitimate threat as you try to stop all this overbearing shit crushing Britain. Interesting. And then he guns down the cop and immediately runs a false flag story to the guys who watched him shoot the guy and I realised he's just an egomaniac prick.

[–]vadergeek 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I was really amazed playing Far Cry 5 how far out of their way they went to try to avoid making a political point.

[–]LordLoko 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Not just them, unfortunately. I remember the Modern Warfare developers released a video saying they were going to “avoid politics”, since they didn’t want to offend anyone I guess.

Ah yes "We're going to avoid politics" and than they set the story in totally-not-syria where you help totally-not-kurds to fight, you guessed it, the Russians!

Oh, and than they blame the Russians for the Highway of Death, which was done by the American-led coalition.

Totally "avoid politics" here.

[–]J_NewCastle 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I'd rather have a story like you described but I imagine it wasn't as we originally thought or it shifted. Be it due to the current climate politically, or something else.

[–]shadowst17 27 points28 points  (6 children)

I wonder how accurate the world is to real London. Would be pretty cool if I could see where my old work place was in Soho.

[–]slicshuter 34 points35 points  (3 children)

When they showed the initial gameplay a while ago I stitched together the segments where the player checked their map to make what seems to be the full map - maybe you can see where your workplace is on it.

[–]shadowst17 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Thanks,

It look like it's a bit more condensed down so I'd be surprised if the street got kept in. The pub I use to frequent on a weekly basis might be there though as it's right beside the Palace Theatre which might be one of those buildings they'll keep.

[–]TheyCallMeSaint 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It will probably be similar to Fallout 4's Boston. Themed areas with landmarks but compressed down.

[–]MisterSnippy 33 points34 points  (3 children)

It looks meh, but in the best way. It looks like simple sandboxy fun. Just a game to dick around in, so I'm excited for it. idc about the story or characters or voiceacting, I just wanna mess around and recruit people and hack stuff.

[–]TheHadMatter15 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Same, people just have wild expectations and standards these days. Not everything has to be a narrative or cinematic masterpiece. I love over the top games with fun gameplay.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Holy shit, I thought this game was just gonna be a gimmick. Loved the first 1 and didn't mind the second just didn't like the crew that much But this one damn. Looks bleddy awesome. Cant wait to get my hands on this. Real smart idea with the weapons and traits being tied to each character. AbstractRPG. Really loving how each game is at certain points in time and this one seems like the prefect fit for the series. Hats off to ubi here

[–]Caltroop2480 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I just want more of that npc clearly inspired by John Wick, they even used the soundtrack from the movie

[–]Tarpaulinator 104 points105 points  (55 children)

Am I the only one who doesn't believe all the hype about being able to recruit everyone?

Or maybe you can but you'll see many of the same skills over and over again.

[–]CaspianRoach 210 points211 points  (19 children)

It'll 100% be just recruiting character classes with different skins. There will be multiple drunkards, multiple albion insiders, multiple hitmen... Basically a mix between the nemesis system and recruiting system from MGS.

[–]Mick009 26 points27 points  (1 child)

There will be multiple drunkards

It is London after all.

[–]hammer310 97 points98 points  (8 children)

Which honestly still sounds really cool to me.

[–]xepa105 94 points95 points  (6 children)

Seriously! People acting like unless every single NPC is 100% unique with their own gadgets and looks, it sucks. Bunch of moaners.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

There was some hands-on information which days that a lot of random NPCs don't offer many benefits, some have negative effects (unfit, alcoholic etc).

Honestly, that sounds pretty fine to me. Average people are just....average people. I kind of like the idea that you can attempt missions as random nobodies.

[–]PBFT 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it’s more like Fire Emblem. A bunch of archetypes and a few characters per archetype, maybe with minor differences.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What I've seen so far looks pretty great already. Ubisoft tends to do pretty cool dynamic animation work, which they advertised for WD3 too, can't wait to see how playing old people vs. John Wick style characters feels. I just want to tumble around the city drunkenly. Also, give me GTAV-style drug missions, please.

[–]whitedragon101 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I think that would be overwhelming and give you a FOMO feeling the whole game. A good number of classes you can realistically cover sounds good

[–]MuricanPie 47 points48 points  (2 children)

Especially since they can be killed or captured.

I wont lie, its a decently elegant system if its done well. Randomize every NPC except for the Easter Egg and Story based ones, and you get to skip all talk of "character development" from a writing standpoint. Plus, everyone can find someone to be happy with, instead of having a set character not everyone would be interested in.

If they manage to make the gameplay itself is just as good or better than the last one, it'll be an easy purchase for me.

[–]RiceyPricey 19 points20 points  (1 child)

It comes down to how interesting and diverse each character class is. So far, it looks promising because characters like the drone user, the hitman, and the insider are fairly unique.

[–]Spyder638 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I saw a character on a YouTube video that was a beekeeper who could summon a swarm of robotic bees. I think there are going be a fair amount of fun ones!

[–]solarplexus7 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I would love a random MGSV reference. Like one of the recruits has all these abilities, one of which is speaking Afrikaans.

[–]swat1611 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I guess you will have to choose wisely. Some may have big disadvantages like dying at any moment in time.

[–]IRockIntoMordor 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's probably similar to the Shadow of Mordor games. Randomised orcs with several classes and traits.

[–]thaumogenesis 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I didn’t play either of the previous games but wasn’t Watchdogs 2 somewhat of a hidden gem? It didn’t seem to get a huge amount of attention, but player reviews seemed very good.

[–]Nikulover 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This article released today who played the demo says it's far less ambitious than the trailer make it seem:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/12/21319047/watch-dogs-legion-ubisoft-hands-on-preview-hacking-open-world-london-gameplay

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm glad its sets in London, feels like a refreshing change of scenery, especially given how diverse the UK's architecture is. There are literally dungeons next to 100-story office blocks. London will be a great environment for the Watchdogs techy theme.

[–]SplintPunchbeef 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Lots of complaining in this thread but I think this looks fantastic and I can't wait to get my hands on it.

[–]penpen35 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I am kinda excited for this game. I saw that granny play footage from last year and I am already thinking about recruiting a squad full of grannies.

[–]TheeAJPowell 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The usage of “LED Spirals” by Le Castlevania for the hitman was quite good, it’s what plays during the club shootout in John Wick.

And that seemed to be the vibe they were going for. Well, that, and “The Professional”, judging by the beanie hat.

[–][deleted] 145 points146 points  (104 children)

Man, the story looks fucking terrible here, seriously. No nuance, the bad guy literally shoots the police commissioner in front of witnesses and plans to blame it on terrorism. Like, holy fuck could it be more black and white? I was skeptic of the multiple playable characters for story reasons, but it looks like even without this variable in play, the story will under perform.

And I know Watch Dogs has never had a good story, but there was a massive improvement between WD1 to WD2. This feels like a lateral (or perhaps even backwards) step.

At least the gameplay actually looks decent. The different methods of entry look fun, I especially like the infiltration.

[–]Roler42 115 points116 points  (14 children)

I think the gaming market, specially Ubisoft's catalogue is saturated enough with shades of grey and characters with ambiguous morality, we can do with a proper good vs evil fight for once, enough with the "omg the bad guy could be right" overplayed and overused stories.

[–]tchan3217 32 points33 points  (1 child)

You just described my biggest gripe with far cry 5’s story. I get that they wanted to surprise the audience with its twist ending but it just came across as something that is overdone and poorly executed. Especially when the tone of the game is all over the place

[–]RiceyPricey 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Ditto for Far Cry 4. The ending literally makes me hate every single character in the game, companion or enemy, including myself infact.

[–]orphan_clubber 45 points46 points  (10 children)

seriously, sometimes in real life there are just bad people. Real life PMC’s like blackwater are literally just comically evil. I don’t know what these people want from a “nuanced” villain? Like oh yes they started rounding up brown people and turned the place into a police state but they had good intentions..?

Very tired of the whole “wow the people who are opposed to bad things are actually too opposed to bad things and are now the bad guys” trope. Let a game be a game.

[–]RyanB_ 41 points42 points  (9 children)

Personally; The nuance I’m looking for isn’t “oh they have good intentions”, it’s “what lead to these people being evil and how were they allowed to enact it”.

The game is using a lot of imagery from real world controversies and conflicts. Protests, revolutions, etc. The game gives me the impression that it’s just kind of using that, without having anything to say. The people in this game aren’t revolting because of inherent issues in the system, because they want real meaningful change, they’re just fighting against the cliche Saturday-morning-cartoon villain. That’s a fine approach for a game to take, but it doesn’t blend with the very real framing the game is using to sell itself imo.

The nuance I’m looking for is the kind that has something to say about those issues. Explore how he accumulated his wealth and influence, explore how he might exert that power through corrupt officials to his own benefit, explore how his greed was born and fostered. Don’t be afraid to get political or offensive when so much of your game is clearly based around and sold off inherently political and controversial themes.

[–]charredcoal 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I hate how Ubisoft constantly pulls punches and refuses to make serious, nuanced games.

With this new watchdogs it seems like they had a real opportunity to comment on western governments turned authoritarian and oppressive and libertarian values / resistance but instead they choose to pussy out and put a comical evil-guy as the main antagonist and all this lighthearted friendly fun that completely ruins it

They even tried to use the "first they came for..." holocaust poem to give the trailer some gravitas but completely butchered it. It feels like the devs came up with a nuanced story with meaningful social commentary and the execs cockblocked them.

[–]orphan_clubber 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think that’s also partially because a big company doesn’t want to make a game that talks about the problems with capitalism.

[–]BungTheGubbins 151 points152 points  (19 children)

I’m not playing Watch dogs for the pinnacle of storytelling. Watch dogs is a dumb action film that I can play and that’s all I need from it. The characters can be walking cliches as long as it’s fun imo.

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (2 children)

I seriously just want to make a team of the stupidest NPCs I can find. That's what's selling this game to me. I'm actually excited for it.

[–]ColdBlackCage 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Having a grandma sneak her way into a PMC secure facility by murdering a bunch of dudes just makes me laugh so much I can't wait to try it.

[–]Charidzard 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Playing the fascist PMC as black and white isn't an issue to me because I mean fuck PMC. Besides it still leaves room for the government that hired the PMC company to be where the nuance comes in.

[–]colekern 44 points45 points  (27 children)

Watch Dogs 2's biggest story flaw was how badly it clashed with the gameplay. The story wanted you to be a fun group of plucky hackers. Great! I loved that. I liked the characters, I liked the story, I liked the world, I was sold on it.

But... the gameplay made you a plucky group of mass murdering hackers.

Although I'd love to see Ubisoft embrace the intent of Watch Dogs 2 and double down on making the game non lethal, they clearly don't actually want to do that. They want there to be guns. They want it to be GTA-ish. So with that in mind, I'd much rather they make the story black and white, that way the massive clash between gameplay and sorry is gone for good.

[–]rapidfire195 41 points42 points  (20 children)

Mass murder was optional.

[–]colekern 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Yes, but it was pretty much assumed to be the default by the game. You start with a gun, you can build guns at 3d printers, Wrench uses a grenade launcher near the end of the game, you use a very deadly hackable object a certain mission at one point that also tends to damage the environment and cause explosions without even using weapons. The game made it very clear that Dedsec was cool with killing.

Mind you, I played through the game nonlethally, as that's what I felt to best fit with the themes and characters. But it was very clearly not the experience that the gameplay was condoning.

[–]HearTheEkko 9 points10 points  (1 child)

The very first gun you've given its a stun gun and the game never incentives you to use lethal force. It always pushes you to use hacking as much as possible. Even in Wrench's mission you have a non-lethal weapon.

You can literally beat the game without killing anyone.

[–]colekern 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I know, I never said you couldn't. What I said is that the vast majority of the weapons in the game are lethal, the game starts you with something lethal, and many missions give you extremely lethal weaponry throughout.

It's not that you can't choose to go non-lethal, it's that the game has such a a focus on lethal weaponry. There are significantly more lethal weapons than nonlethal ones.

Also, did you not read where I said that my playthrough was nonlethal?

[–]MisterSnippy 46 points47 points  (7 children)

WD3 is definitely going to be a game where I'll screw around in it and not give a single fuck about the story. I don't even know why they bothered tbh

[–]VermilionAce 73 points74 points  (12 children)

Being black and white isn't an inherent flaw dude.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Probably not, but it didn't look like they were doing anything interesting with that from the trailer.

[–]mrpengo88 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think it's extremely silly to make such hyperbolic statements about how good the story will be from such a tiny amount of footage. The "it's not morally gray thus it is bad" meme needs to die too.

[–]Laggo 14 points15 points  (0 children)

No nuance, the bad guy literally shoots the police commissioner in front of witnesses and plans to blame it on terrorism.

Sorry but what witnesses are you referring to? Do you mean the accomplices in the meeting? Those are not witnesses lol. Not in the same way.

[–]voneahhh 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I see some people talking about how this looks tamer than it did last year, but I’m willing to bet it’s more that the chaos depicted in game doesn’t seem so fantastical anymore compared to what’s outside.

[–]nitefang 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'm very interested in if it is literally anyone on the street, if they all have hacking skills (would be interesting to play as characters that can't hack in a hacking game) and if you can use multiple people at different stages of the same job.

It would be lots of fun to tell your drone expert to hang out next to a door while your inside person walks through security to unlock that door, as a single example obviously.

[–]Spyder638 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Everyone has basic hacking capabilities. (You can probably assume with a sprinkle of fantasy that DedSec have made it easy for recruits, saying they're all just tapping their phones).

I'd say it would be a major missed opportunity if you can't switch between your characters on the fly and have them in the area.

[–]CapControl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Imo this looks like it might be the best WD, WD2 was fun but the variety shown here might just top it. Also the world looks amazing. Can't wait to play.

[–]Pizza112233 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I’m looking forward to playing this game with hopefully a permadeath option. Too few games have consequences for failure that aren’t simply reloading a save. It will cause me to actually plan missions and think things through instead of just jumping in without care for the consequences. I would have to take calculated risks with my people which sounds incredibly fun.

[–]eoinster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know a lot of people are ragging on the visuals, which fine, it's definitely a 'current-gen' game on the visual front. It's also a quintessentially Ubisoft open world with regards stiff animations, AI and gunplay, but the concept still hasn't lost its lustre to me and the illusion of 'you can play as anyone' seems to be genuinely real. I'm just baffled by just how many actors and voice lines they must have recorded to round out the roster of playable characters. Plenty of impressions videos have mentioned that their randomly selected characters had genuine personalities, specific lines to NPCs about their own lives/backstories, and were far from a blank shell of a character; the work required to fill them all out must have been insane.

From what I can tell there's a few different variables with them;

  • Age and gender are very much deciders for full animation movesets (this is common in all games with NPCs and you can mod GTA to play as a grandpa on the street but you'll notice that they basically only have walking and running animations and anything else like jumping will default to Michael/Trevor/Franklin's animations- the grannies in this game seem to have distinct animations for everything a player might do from combat, stealth, parkour and emotes). Women in high heels will have their own movesets, and the regular-aged foot soldiers have several distinct movesets too.

  • In a roughly similar way, voice lines and scripts are assigned by age/gender, though there were a few funny instances I saw where young women were given the 'granny' voice for their whole script- will be interesting to see how much overlap there is between characters and how many of them have the same voice or start repeating the exact same lines/backstories about themselves. Seems inevitable with a city of thousands of unique NPCs.

  • 'Recruitment' missions seem to be procedurally generated which makes sense; I can definitely see these getting old as hell but they seem to be broken into several 'types', from rescues to robberies to assassinations to destroying evidence. Each NPC presumably has a bottled sob story to win you over regarding a kidnapped relative or incriminating evidence they want rid of, and the game will put together the location and mission type in one of the enemy outposts from there.

  • Occupation determines certain 'perks' and equipment, and also large parts of the moveset in combat- the assassin has the John Wick gun takedowns, the football hooligan has a headbutt knockout, and the granny has a taser. Everyone seems to have a takedown, a weapon, a passive perk, an active ability and a unique emote.

I'm fascinated to see just how wide the range of characters is and whether the 'simulation' falls apart at any point and if you start seeing the cracks and copies of certain characters, because I still haven't been disappointed and I'm still not convinced it's possible to pull off the amount of work it should've taken to flesh the whole mechanic out.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (15 children)

After seeing the quality of motion captured actors in games like The Last of Us 2 and the new Far Cry 6 trailer, the faces here just look dated as hell.

[–]SlendyIsBehindYou 12 points13 points  (2 children)

The faces are the worst offender, but this game looked straight outta 2014 from a visual standpoint. Movement looked jank as hell, ragdolls looked stiff and the lighting and textures were really muddy. Maybe im spoiled by games like TLoU 2 and RD2 but this just looks dated.

[–]Sprickels 11 points12 points  (8 children)

Different kinda game. That's like comparing Skyrim to CoD. "Ugh the shooting mechanics in Skyrim suck compared to Call of Duty! Worst game ever!"

[–]Harry101UK 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Seems like a trade-off they had to make for having hundreds of random NPC faces. You can't hand-craft each one to the high standards of TLOU2. Even if the main characters looked insanely good, they'd look weird next to the randomly generated ones.

The faces remind me of GTAV and RDR2 - a sort of non-realistic caricature look.

[–]MikeyFED 7 points8 points  (4 children)

No driving gameplay?

Hmmmm

[–]SuperMonkeyJoe 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Mate, you don't want to drive in London if you can help it, just take the tube.

[–]hunter611 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'd love it if they but the boris bikes in.

[–]DocSwiss 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I've seen some that other people put out, it's about the same as it was in the previous Watchdogs games

[–]clownishloki 15 points16 points  (14 children)

Can someone explain to me why they feel like the recruiting system is all hype? I feel like we seen this type of generated character system work with shadow of Mordor.

[–]Helhiem 42 points43 points  (0 children)

They weren’t playable though

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I mean, Shadow of Mordor was pretty good.

[–]Locke57 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Okay, so, what you’re saying is that because it’s been done before, or at least it’s been done similarly before (nemesis system enemies being just that, enemies), that we can’t be excited about it?

Doom 2020 got hype for platforming and movement. We’ve seen platforming and movement before. Titanfall 2 had platforming and badass movement, Mario Odyssey has platforming and movement. Cyberpunk 2077 is being hyped for deep story and an expansive world. Skyrim had an expansive and detailed world, bioshock had deep story telling. We can still be excited for a gameplay element that’s been done previously.

And on top of that, shadow or Mordor and shadow of war are the ONLY games I can think of that had a nemesis system in a game of this size and scope. Not counting xcom or into the breach which are not expansive open world games, I can’t name one that has a similar premise.

[–]clownishloki 12 points13 points  (2 children)

No I actually meant the opposite that. I don’t know why people are saying the system can’t work if we seen another example of a similar system.

[–]Locke57 8 points9 points  (1 child)

OHH! God I misread your comment so bad. Sorry about that. And yeah, I think it can work great. Even if skill sets repeat, I bet there’s room to make serval unique combinations of strengths and weaknesses, could be a ton of fun.

[–]Xclonic 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Yes but you can't play as them, and it's not like Prototype either because these characters also have specialized abilities as shown in the video.

[–]Spyder638 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So many people are reading your comment the wrong way like you're saying something negative about it haha. I agree. It looks pretty impressive. I'm sure there's plenty of duplicates but it's the same as guns in borderlands or the orcs in SoM.. still very fun.