Amway

Guys, what in the world is up with this recent influx of MLM recruiters trying to sell you on the dream of making passive income or creating an “asset”?

I swear it’s like every time I go to North Dallas at the Whole Foods, or the Barnes and Nobles on Northwest Hwy, they’re ALWAYS there trying to start up harmless conversation that suddenly turns into a pitch about how selling products (or better yet getting others to sell for you) will bring you freedom. And the funny part is they all have the same script and use the same recycled lines.

Has anybody else experienced this around Dallas or DFW? I’ve lived in a lot of cities but never have I experienced a MLM/cult that’s been this persistent before. Since being here I’ve probably encountered about 5 recruiters.

Tried posting this in but they removed it because my account is too new. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this here.

This is going to be long, and maybe a bit of a rant, but I have to get this off my chest and I don't know where to go. 25 yo/ male for context.

I'm trying to get out. 5 years ago, when I was 20 and didn't know what I wanted to do in life, a friend of mine introduced me to his dad for some "business opportunities" to retire early. I thought what the heck, and hopped on a call. That began my introduction to Amway and Worldwide Dreambuilders. I was told that JOB people are broke, average, and their lives suck. I should do more. Don't listen to my parents and older siblings, they aren't retired, they aren't winners. They're average.

I got excited, here was a way out of the 9-5, I wouldn't need to figure out finances, I would be rich and free. Just get supportive friends and family to buy products, and start introducing others to the business. Buy books, listen to audios, go to meetings. I did. I showed up to everything, always had a ditto (recurring order of Amway products), of at least 100 PV (~$300), even when I didn't have my own place, or a car of my own. I borrowed my dad's and budgeted my $10/hr job for it.

I started showing friends, some got in, they all quit. So I went to strangers, learned how to contact when I'm "out and about". I literally don't know how to go to the store anymore without looking for people to talk to to get another prospect. I did it 6 days a week.

I got married, brought my wife into this, introduced her to my mentors. Got her excited, we decided to step it up. Standard of excellence for singles was 200 PV (~$600), for couples you can afford and use more, go for 300 PV (~$900, pre-tax btw). So we did. We budgeted and made it work. We spent more on our monthly Amway order than we did on rent. Still pay just about as much as we do in rent at our new place. It was an investment into our future. I dropped out of school to build this as much as possible. I didn't need school, this was going to retire me before that even became an issue.

Anytime I didn't see results, I wasn't working hard enough. I didn't have the numbers to show for it, we hadn't gone "all-in" in our work habit (approaching people, showing them the business plan, trying to get them to register). I turned 24, started thinking about going back to school so I could get a higher paying job, because my job opportunities were limited. I was taught to go to my mentors for everything to get their opinion, so I did. I asked, and the response I got was, paraphrased, "you can do whatever you want, if you just want to be average, never accomplish your goals, and never bring your wife home from work, sure, go to school. Or, you can double down and BUILD THIS." So I did.

Make it about others, they said. Don't worry about the money, money will come, go help the people. So I went out. Hit every metric they set for us. I learned how to approach, learned how to get people to meet, learned how to get people to presentations. If they don't get it, it's on them, they don't have what it takes. I believed it, I was CORE (the training system Worldwide Dream Builders sells you), all 10 steps. I got pats on the back, recognition for being in the fight. I was "doing it". In a year we registered 8 people, 7 quit. Our business hasn't changed at all financially this entire year. I got frustrated. I messaged my upline. "Stop feeling sorry for yourself, you've only put in a year, do it for 5 years and then we'll talk, you've just actually gotten started, deal with it, this happens."

And I tried guys, I really did. I went back out there, but my mental health was cracked. I became suicidal, I had to give my guns to my sister for safekeeping. But I kept going out there, kept doing what winners do.

Until earlier this week, I saw another askreddit thread talking about MLMs and how they're scams. I'd seen them before, but always thought "not me, I'm different". Or "these guys are just average JOB people who aren't making it, losers tearing down the amazing thing I've got going on." But this time was different, I was cracked, hurting. I did the unspeakable (Worldwide puts people down who do this), and I looked up the stats. I looked for the negative. I started asking myself "why?" Why is there so much negative out there? Why do people quit if this is so great?

So I jumped in, but this time without my mind already made up. And I was shocked at what I found. I was always told that any criticism of our amazing business was just some bitter loser, or as my upline likes to say "some guy living in his mom's basement, in a too-short robe with Cheeto-fingers blogging negative on the internet". And sure, I saw some negative, bitter people, but I also found some things that scared me.

99% of people in MLMs lose money -

I read reviews -

I looked at Amway's own income disclosures, to discover that only the top 1% on average make more than $50,000.00. And the top 50% only make $400-$3,400.

• The Top 1% earned $83,032 (average) and $50,363 (median)

• The Top 10% earned $13,734 (average) and $4,402 (median)

• The Top 50% earned $3,149 (average) and $472 (median)

How Amway and cult's use the same tactics. (can't find the original article, but here's another) -

And I started to wonder. Why haven't I actually made a PROFIT yet? I always get told it's just around the corner, find more people, just keep going. Sure, if I found enough people, we could make money, that is true. But what about all of those other people who will lose money just like I am right now? They MUST recruit others to keep it going, to actually profit. The sales markup in this business is ridiculous. 10%. I'm encouraged to sell 100PV a month ($300), and my profit from that is a WHOPPING $30. See, the system works!!! /s

I snapped, everything crumbled. I feel like a fraud, a scam man. No matter what they call me, mentor, dreambuilder, winner, champion, I know what I am. An Amway recruiter man. A sign up expert. I feel so guilty and stupid you guys, I regret it. I got my wife in, and she's scared for me because I "went off the deep end", and I "lost my belief". She messaged our mentors for some WWG audios to listen to for some belief, because I've lost mine, and our mentor told her that I'm just having a pity party. "Runrunaway25 is just having a pity party for himself, when he stops feeling sorry for himself and focusing on others he'll grow. He's just mad cause people won't do what he wants and he didn't get what he wanted out of this yet. Well yeah he's put in a bit of work, but he hasn't done a TENTH of what I've done, and as soon as he gets over himself and gets back out there to help others, he'll get over it."

So now our mentor is trash talking me to my spouse...yay. I'm not sad, I'm not throwing a pity party. I'm pissed. I'm angry, I'm scared. HOW CAN I SELL THIS TO PEOPLE? I'm going to become their cautionary tale of people who "bought into the negative", I'll be used as an example of people who didn't have what it takes. I'll be a pariah, I'm sure to get some phone calls guilting me. I'm already expecting it. "What about your wife and daughter?" "Are you just gonna be a quitter?" "What about retiring early? If you quit this, it will never happen for you."

And maybe I won't retire early, but I think I'm okay with that. I'm not going to keep bringing people in, playing off their dreams, and turn them into recruiters for money.

I'm hurt, I'm scared, I feel guilty, like a failure. They always teach that only quitters lose in this business, that if it didn't work for me, it's my fault. Not Amway's, not the system. But I'm willing to take responsibility now. Sure, I didn't "do the work" in recruiting for all 5 years I was involved, but I feel like I'm finally understanding what has actually been going on. I take responsibility, I messed up. But I don't want to be guilt tripped as a quitter who doesn't care about my family. I do. I love my wife, I care about her and our future daughter deeply. But I can't keep this up. I don't have a support system to turn to, because I was taught to make my mentors my main support. Don't get advice from people outside the system, they don't understand. I know this sounds silly, but I feel like I'm leaving my life behind. I don't know who I am anymore. My wife is scared for me, she's been crying every day since. But I can't unsee what I saw. I'm scared guys.

I just needed to get it off my chest, thanks for reading.

Edit: Thank you everyone for your support. It really has helped me so much, I don't know any of you, but I would like to thank you.

Update** I have told my upline that I am walking away, and that I ask that my decision be respected, that I do not be reached out to, and that no negative things be said about me to my wife through their communication platform. I was shaking, but I did it.

I've said this in the comments but I'll put it here for all to read: My wife has asked for 2 weeks to make her own decision, and still wants to go to their FED function in Las Vegas. I have agreed to drive her down there because she is 6 months pregnant, but have set the boundary that I will no longer be participating and will not go.

If anyone is in the Vegas area, I'm basically gonna be sitting around all day the 8th, 9th, and 10th of October while my wife is in the function, any fun ideas/things to do would be appreciated!

Update 2* Some of you have expressed very real concerns of my pregnant wife going to a large (~16,000) people event with COVID, and I want to thank you for bringing that up. I have brought this up with my wife, and she is considering that, and I have made it very clear I find it very unsafe and worry for the health and safety of our child.

OUR UPLINE HAS TOLD MY WIFE I SHOULND'T COME TO VEGAS WITH HER CAUSE SHE NEEDS TO BE AROUND "POSITIVE" PEOPLE. Less than 24 hours later and they're encouraging her to not spend time around me, to rideshare with some other women and share a room with them over the weekend so she can be away from my "negative influence". AND they told her even though she's unvaccinated to come, just get whatever shot she can before, and just "try to stay away from people and not give hugs". Now I'm pissed, and super worried. I asked her if it was a 3 day concert with 16-17k people, would she go with the health risk? And she said no, so now I'm asking her why in the WORLD is it okay to go because of Amway and WWG and our upline say so?? This conversation happened while I was making this edit.

Also, I see a lot of people have questions. I'm trying to get to as many comments as I can, didn't expect this to blow up so much. Would it be appropriate/is there an interest in an AMA? I'm open to answering, just a lot of stuff going on haha.

Update 3*** Got a call from one of my upline. He asked what was going on, and then told me that my problem wasn't the business, but that I was trying to take pressure off. The real problem was my low self image and insecurities, my addiction I struggle with, my relationship with my wife, and my distance with God. The business has nothing to do with it, and I shouldn't be leaving the people who truly love and support me because I'll be all alone...I was cold and polite, said thanks for your concern, please have a nice day.

Good news is my wife has decided NOT to go to Vegas! I feel much more comfortable with her safety and the safety of our baby now. She's still undecided about leaving Amway, but I take that as a positive step in the right direction.

voy a contar todo, capaz se hace un poco extenso. Estaba tranquilo en mi casa cuando un amigo que solo hablo para jugar partidos y algunas cosas sobre Boca, me habló, yo pensando que ibamos a hablar algo relacionado con futbol, pero en realidad me ofrecio unirme a un "emprendimiento" donde me resaltaba que podía trabajar desde casa, las horas que quisiera y desde mi pc/celular y ganar una suma de dinero, cosa que me llamo la atención, aunque el mismo me dijo que no me imagine una cosa que no es, que iba a organizar un zoom de alguien del "equipo" para hablar más al detalle, entonces accedí y le dije que si, que sea al día siguiente (ayer). Llego el día y me paso el link de la reunión, mi amigo me insistió un poco para que le diga a algún amigo más, pero yo realmente quería saber lo que era y luego recomendarle a alguien más, tuve la charla con una chica, estando mi amigo y otro amigo que el también le habló para que este en la reunión informativa. La chica se llamaba Cami, una persona que ya estaba hace varios años en el lugar y me empezó hablando sobre que era una plataforma digital y lo que era "network marketing", cosa que yo ya se porque estoy estudiando Administración de Empresas lo cual me sentí un poco que me trataba de tonto explicarme eso pero calculo que era para explicarle al otro chico que estaba conmigo en la reunión que estaba menos familiarizado con el tema. Siguiendo, empezó a explicar de que trataba el asunto, explicó que trataba de un "sistema de puntos" donde generas ingresos sumando estos puntos sin necesidad de estar en un lugar físico de la empresa, y que los vas consiguiendo consumiendo los productos o, haciendo a alguien socio de esta marca que se llama "amway", entonces comentó que para hacer socio tengo que pagar la cifra de 1750 pesos (es un pago de una sola vez, lo recalcó dos veces) y que si me arrepentia me lo reembolsaban. Ser socio te traía beneficios que el que más destacaba era el descuento de sus productos a un 30%, yo ya para ese punto estaba oliendo algo sospechoso y lo primero que pense es que era una estafa piramidal, tambíen me di cuenta que mi amigo que me habló para entrar era nuevo que estaba informandose para empezar con todo. Siguiendo con la charla, en ese "sistema de puntos" a medida que vas teniendo, subis de nivel, donde decía cada uno cuanto ganaba en promedio (una suma de dinero interesante) y que ibas teniendo mas beneficios cuanto más alto sea tu nivel, por ejemplo en los niveles más altos la empresa hacía un viaje por año todo pago a cualquier parte del mundo para el equipo que tuviera Esmeralda para arriba, y ella mostró varias fotos con su novio (raro porque jamás mostró una foto con el equipo en un viaje, siempre era con el novio) y que lo más importaba era el desempeño que tengas, no las horas que inviertas, básicamente sacar la máxima efectividad de puntos en el menor tiempo posible, si traias persoans a hacer socios pero estas no hacen mucho, no sirve porque no te van a sumar puntos. El objetivo era sumar más personas que hagan lo mismo que yo, adquirir productos y sumar socios, para poder sumar puntos de manera exponencial y ganar mas nivel, por ende, más ingresos. Yo jamás escuche de esta empresa así que investigue y encontre algunas cosas donde los dejan mal parados. Eso fue la charla, la mina una copada pero soy bastante escéptico y no me trago el cuento fácil, asi que queria saber si alguno tuvo experiencia con esto y si realmente es una buena opción o es mejor estar alejado. Perdón si esta redactado para el ort0 pero improvise todo así de la nada, me deje algunas cosas en el camino pero si no, iba a ser más largo que la biblia, solo espero que lo entiendan :)

Amway Singapore. how bad is it?

For context, I have not spent a single dime on this. About a month ago, I got recruited by, let's call him WP in short. At first, he just asked survey questions about what teenagers think of businesses, having side hustles, etc.

Towards the end, he asked if I was open to opportunities to network with people, meet people, etc. I said it was fine since it would be good for my knowledge and portfolio. Apparently, he is financially retired by 29 or something.

Fast forward: I had my first meeting with him via Zoom. He was just talking about Amway and saying how much cheaper it is to buy from Amway than from Shengsiong or NTUC because it redirects consumers to manufacturers. Then the whole thing about network marketing, so like I influence people to buy from me and I get income. "Building your asset" was mentioned, but how to build when the products aren’t even yours? Wah, then the word passive income also means building second income. Made me read the Rich Dad, Poor Dad book too and had to give three takeaways.

The next meeting was also about what they do as a business, passive income, etc. He would always ask by the end if I was still interested in this, and I was fine. Then the first talk. It was held at Aperia Mall, and I attended via Zoom. They kept promoting products like Nutrilite, saying how it has a traceability to organic, etc., and why do I want to build the business?? Sincerely, it was an interesting talk, but I can tell the majority of the audience were Poly kias who were here for the first time. I felt like, "Oh, since I'm not paying any money, it's fine, let it continue." I told myself that the moment I had to fork up cash, I will leave this situation.

Today, I just went to some talk that was at SMU School of Economics. It was 2 and a half hours of product sharing, with a guy named L talking about business with his wife and sharing about some X product for protein. TODAY, it hit me how cult-like this was. People in the room stood up and clapped for every speaker, responding like robots as well. It gave me hogc vibes so badly. I have one assessment left to be counted as qualified. How screwed am I? How do I back off from this? ALSO, I HAVE TO DO DAILY JOURNALLING EVERY DAY… which I didn’t lah. I went to research about Amway after today only to realize how screwed up it was. They want your family and friends to be your product targets, by the way. That's mad lol.

TLDR: How bad is Amway really? I haven't seen recent posts about Amway in SG, hence making this post.

UPDATE: hello everyone. i would like to express my gratitude if you read this insanely long text, gave comments on your insights, etc. I did not sign or commit to anything so i can get away easily. I’ll be leaving this shithole tomorrow. I have an ex-schoolmate that’s also in this situation and he’s also fairly new so that’s going to be an issue to tackle because how the hell do i tell him to leave this cult. I hope this post can spread awareness although it spread my buttocks wide and humbled me to the core. im 17, hence do not have adequate knowledge on these. thank you for time out of your day to engage in this post. BTW he has 26k+ followers on linkedin and was an NTU grad(who knows if its fake) so i seriously thought he wasn’t a “scam”

update 2: IS AMWAY ON THE RISE FOR PEOPLE? yesterday I KANNA THIS AGAIN AND RIGHT AT MY SCHOOL. omg stop

Hello all,

Since few months, I have been noticing a great increase in the activity of Amway MLMs across Canberra. Especially Canberra Center and DFO. Me and my partner spent a quite few time becoming an Amway IBO until we understood that this is all a scam. We lost around $1500 buying stupid useless products to make our uplines happy, we lost some of our good friends as well. Recently they have also been doing large conferences at the National Convention Centre. These guys dress up very professionally and use words like financially free, entrepreneurship, positive mindset, mentorship and how you can retire at the age of 30. I find these guys (AmBots - Amway bots) everywhere around Canberra nowadays! If you want to save money please please stay away from these guys.

They have a cult like structure where you will be brainwashed!!! When they approach you out of no where, they try and speak in such a manner that you actually think that you have found a supportive friend, but reality you are just being recruited in a pyramid MLM scam.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE CULTS!!! Feel free to share your stories if you have encountered with one.

My fiancé and I have been together for almost three years. This week he told me he got a new job. I didn't even know he was looking for a new job so that was the first red flag. However I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was working for IT in the provincial government. He said one of the admins in his office told him about a business opportunity where he could own his own business and work for himself. The name of this "business" is Amway and it's a pyramid scheme and not a real business.

I (29F) tried telling him (30M) this but he had an answer for everything I said. He said he could earn enough money to pay off my medical school debt and for us to buy a house. I told him to search Amway online to see that is a pyramid scheme. He was still adamant that it was a real business. Then he told me he already quit his job to join Amway full time and has already spent almost a thousand dollars on it.

I am furious. Not only that he spent so much without discussing it with me but also that he quit his job without telling me first. I would never make any big decisions like that without talking to him first. He gone all in and drank the Kool-Aid. He's talking about Amway like it's the greatest thing ever. Meanwhile our wedding is supposed to be in just over three months as soon as my fellowship is over. I can't marry him like this. Besides quitting his job and spending all that money without talking to me, there's no way I can take him seriously if he thinks Amway is a real business or that he'll malke money. I'm trying to get through to him and all he's doing is doubling down, even after I told him I won't marry him if he keeps going with Amway. I love him however Amway is not something I can abide by.

Recently at the gym in Gresham I met a guy who wanted to connect so I entertained the idea as we seemed like minded. Now after a couple of meetings he tells me he works with amway and worldwide group… just a little of research shows me it could be a pyramid scheme he’s trying to recruit me for… has anyone in PDX area ran into this before?

Hey NC! I just wanted to reach out to warn everyone :) im around Brier creek daily as I work there, and I have came across three seperate encounters with Amway salesmen attempting to recruit new people into their Pyramid scheme, It is insane in just the past month in a half I have come in contact with three of them. They begin with small talk/compliments and then ask you the “Are you open to business opportunities/Are you open to making more money?” And then rope you into their group with a vague business plan and little to no information on HOW the business actually works.

I have everything against you Amway salesmen and I wish you all the worst with your business venture. it ticks me the wrong way when you make money by stepping on other people and inspiring them with promises and false expectations, Be straight forward and honest about the business. I am a salesmen myself and you guys are the reason we get hated on despite some of us being genuine and honestly wanting to help people out vs just trying to hound some money out of folks.

Has anyone else come across these Amway recruiters ? Please warn anyone you know to not fall into a MLM/Pyramid scheme :)

Happy Fathers day folks!

Hey guys, Has anyone met with people at coffee shops and after a couple meetings they bring up Amway and how they have their own company with Amway. Does anyone have experience with it/know what Amway is? I’ve met with someone and my red flags are being raised.

got recruited by some goober at walmart who seems to be pretty low on the pyramid.

I was wondering how far into amway I can get untill I have to pay. Because i want to collect all the audios and podcasts and stuff I can.

Thinking maybe doing a small dox (nothing illegal) on the heads of my local amway group.

I’ve been dating this guy who is DEEP into Amway. He goes to multiple meetings a week, conferences, etc. I have met a couple who he works alongside and they seemed like nice people. He is clearly wanting me to join. I am older than him and am very established in my career. Money isn’t everything but I make around 140,000 a year. From what I know he has not made any money from this “business”. We recently had a discussion that he would want his wife to join and have their own business so they could raise kids together and whatnot. From the couple I met who are well into 10 years of this they make less (together) than I make myself. I have worked very hard for my career and am finally settled. To me this all sounds like an ultimatum but is this a strategy they use? How can I open his eyes to this or do I just bounce? Let me know I genuinely have enjoyed our time together I just know that I don’t want to go into this as a career whatsoever. Thoughts?

Kia Ora,

I found a few archived posts about Jono Rowe and his whole recruitment process for Amway scams, (full disclosure I don't know what amway is) but they are all archived so I could not comment on them.

I wanted to distill exactly what the issue is here as I was recently recruited up in Auckland and initially seemed fine, but once looking on here I saw many red flags and politely said no thank you. I hope it was the right call to make.

From what I can tell they tell you to read Robert Kiyosaki books - which I did and not a bad read tbh.

That's as far as I got.

Others have mentioned seminars that costs hundreds - again not a bad thing, seminars are a great way to network with business minded folks.

This is where it gets fuzzy, do they then ask you to invest in a company and any proceeds go to you/them OR are you "insert someone with real world experience in this subject" asked to recruit others into making sales for you and you take a cut and so does Jono which is a pyramid scheme.

Can someone please explain the full non bias approach to this, as mentioned it's still happening and there's plenty old posts around.

Anyone else been approached by someone in a store that compliments you on something, then just tries to tell you this whole spill about e-commerce in health and wellness and how it’s a entrepreneurship opportunity?

I was stoned at the Whole Foods in Uptown and dude sparked a convo up with me about my apple watch.. so yeah i took the bait, but after 2 minutes i figured out this guys deal and shut him down.

this is maybe the 3rd time in the past year i’ve been hit with this script randomly and wondering if i’m the only one having these random encounters

There's this couple that randomly approached me and asked me if I wanted to retired early or earn so much money.

I find it weird so I walk away, how they randomly approached me.

Then my friend's bf started doing it. My friends bf said, he met with this couple, they had meetings, made him read Robert Kiyosaki's book "Rich Dad Poor Dad." Then the couple ask him to pay $1000 and then in return of giving him supplies to sell. My friend's bf is not making any money so he quit.

I asked him what the business was and he said it's Amway. It's a multi-level marketing.

EDIT: I genuinely don't know about Amway but I do felt they are scammy. I had a manager in the past who kept telling me to keep an open mind about Amway but hell no. And I'm not the type who fall in to things easily. I research first, ask around first and how majority thinks but mostly rely on factual knowledge.