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Official Source[Premier League] Best starts for team after 12 matches in Premier league (i.redd.it)

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[–]justafatgoat 2787 points2788 points  (120 children)

Why is it so peak Newcastle to be on this list and the only team not to win

[–][deleted] 581 points582 points  (13 children)

If it helps, the next team on this list would be Arsenal from 07/08 who had 30 points from 12 games and finished 3rd behind both Manutd and Chelsea.

[–]abhi91 285 points286 points  (5 children)

That's when the Birmingham bloke broke Eduardo

[–]pennydirk 190 points191 points  (0 children)

Broke Eduardo’s leg, Gallas’ spine, and arsenal’s dreams. That was not my favorite day.

[–]artaru 13 points14 points  (2 children)

I still freaking remember. We would have been 8 points clear with same amount of games played.

Damn Gallas just could not rally the team and gave up.

That team was so good, and basically miraculous with the shoestring budget.

[–]PiresMagicFeet 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Gallas sitting down in the centre circle is my least favourite moment from an arsenal captain. Disgraceful

[–]abhi91 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Was a weak spurs player at heart

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    [–]Rickcampbell98 108 points109 points  (1 child)

    Arsene was moving mad with some of those squads cus, fabregas was balling back then.

    [–]warmcakes 24 points25 points  (0 children)

    Midfield with Hleb, Rosicky, Fabregas, Diaby, Lassana Diarra and Gilberto, lol. IIRC Flamini was actually good then too

    [–]90_9 32 points33 points  (0 children)

    It helps

    [–]dishler712 32 points33 points  (0 children)

    RIP Eduardo's leg

    [–]slagthompson 21 points22 points  (0 children)

    a season of the highest highs and lowest lows

    [–]SnowbearX 8 points9 points  (0 children)

    Gallas walk and sit down. Iconic season

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      [–]Lem_201 769 points770 points  (32 children)

      For some reason I think you will not be alone in this list like that when season ends, will be happy to be wrong though.

      [–]risheeb1002 192 points193 points  (30 children)

      Bold claim

      [–]EliToon 45 points46 points  (1 child)

      I would love it if you beat them. Love it!

      [–]Houssem-Aouar 19 points20 points  (0 children)

      And the jinx is complete

      [–]Lem_201 396 points397 points  (26 children)

      26 matches to go to prove me wrong, good luck.

      [–]risheeb1002 193 points194 points  (6 children)

      I guess i forgot to put '/s'

      [–]kaledip21 72 points73 points  (2 children)

      But then reddit will get angry at you for it

      [–]25sittinon25cents 16 points17 points  (0 children)

      How dare you forget to add /s!

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          [–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (18 children)

          I think you are right, unless they bring some reinforcements they are starting to look tired while City has 2 1st teams worth of quality.

          [–]dembabababa 62 points63 points  (16 children)

          City has 2 1st teams worth of quality

          They really don't, their squad is one of the smallest of the top 6, just they've got amazing quality throughout. 3 or 4 injuries though and their bench starts looking pretty thin.

          [–]city_city_city 111 points112 points  (10 children)

          Currently we have absurd depth at CB (five fantastic senior CBs in rotation) and in the attacking midfield, where we have De Bruyne, Bernardo, and Gundogan and can only start two of them.

          We also have Alvarez coming on and will have depth at striker for the first time in a while.

          Our most crucial player besides Ederson is actually Rodri (not Haaland, we won titles without him), and if he got injured we'd be in big trouble. However we bought Kalvin Philips for exactly this reason, and if he returns well from his shoulder surgery, we'll have depth across the midfield.

          We're a bit thin on the wings and with fullbacks.

          [–]tobi1k 101 points102 points  (3 children)

          We're a bit thin on the wings

          Even saying this you have Mahrez, Foden, Grealish and Bernardo who can play there at a very high level.

          [–]city_city_city 27 points28 points  (2 children)

          All true, and Cole Palmer too, but I think of Bernardo as primarily a midfielder, and Grealish/Mahrez can really only play on one side each, so there are some limits.

          I'm certainly not complaining, just saying we are deeper in some places than others.

          Last year we had Sterling and Jesus as wingers in addition to all the above, you could certainly say we had two first teams worth then.

          [–]Rickcampbell98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Na you were bit thin last season too but pep seems to prefer it this way.

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            [–]aleoaliealaia 12 points13 points  (1 child)

            You have good depth in those positions but the drop off is still massive with a couple of injuries. Haaland>Alvarez is an enormous downgrade, as is KDB>any of your other mids(with respect to silva and Gundo, they are great but KDB is a different species)

            Same story with Rodri>Phillips. Great players coming in to replace but regardless still massive downgrades.

            [–]CoMaestro 15 points16 points  (0 children)

            Even though they are huge downgrades, they'd likely start for any club below 7-8th place. It's just that the first team is obviously world class.

            [–]Alia_Gr 13 points14 points  (2 children)

            Well yea but that's the thing, you can't plan who gets injured.

            It often happens in the places where you are thin, 1 guy gets injured, the replacement gets overplayed now and also gets injured, boom suddenly no left backs.

            [–]fuzzynavel34 13 points14 points  (0 children)

            Yeah but we went from having 1 LB to 3 LB’s basically.

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                [–]idosade 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                We don't have the numbers but most of the squad is extremely versatile and can play multiple positions like Stones and Ake who play fullbacks and cb's, Cancelo both sides, Bernardo on the wing, 8 or 10, Grealish on the wing and in midfield, Foden both sides and Alvarez can go on the wing as well

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                        [–]pw5a29 158 points159 points  (8 children)

                        Wait till they bring up the Christmas top team not winning PL chart

                        [–]CollieDaly 53 points54 points  (0 children)

                        We've graced that one a few times if my memory is correct....

                        [–]FanFlow 15 points16 points  (6 children)

                        This top on Christmas table - link

                        [–]MountainCheesesteak 4 points5 points  (5 children)

                        Your link is broke

                        [–]FanFlow 15 points16 points  (4 children)

                        Are you sure? I just checked and it works fine, also with imagus addon, but ok I will write the list of those who were first on Christmas in Premier League, but failed to win it in the end:

                        1993 - Norwich 3RD

                        1996 - Newcastle 2ND

                        1997 - Liverpool 4TH

                        1998 - United 2ND

                        1999 - Aston Villa 6TH

                        2000 - Leeds 3RD

                        2002 - Newcastle 4TH

                        2003 - Arsenal 2ND

                        2004 - United 3RD

                        2008 - Arsenal 3RD

                        2009 - Liverpool 2ND

                        2014 - Liverpool 2ND

                        2019 - Liverpool 2ND with record 97 points

                        2021 - Liverpool 3RD

                        so it's not that rare.

                        [–]joeydohn 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                        My favourite part about Norwich ending third in '93 is not that they ended third; it's that they managed to do so with a negative goal difference.

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                          [–]studgebro 93 points94 points  (42 children)

                          It's usually us that has those records thanks to the City super team and Fergie. So it's nice to see someone else suffer lol.

                          [–]Black_Waltz3 59 points60 points  (2 children)

                          Liverpool are such a strange case with these kind of records, they never seem to get proportionate success. So they have stats like best goal difference, most points, least defeats etc for a team in second. Then they have records like barely ever losing penalty shootouts* and, this century at least, reaching the Champions League final ever other year**.

                          It seems like they either under achieve or over achieve in every competition, they rarely hit par.

                          • They've won 11 out of 12 penalty shootouts in semi finals and finals across their entire history. Hell, this century they've had 5 cup finals go to penalties and won 4 of them.

                          ** 5 Champions League finals since 2000, yet they've only qualified 13 times. Surely the highest ratio of finals to campaigns participated in Europe.

                          [–]Reach_Reclaimer 35 points36 points  (1 child)

                          I think Forest still has highest the ratio of wins/euro campaigns tbh

                          [–]Black_Waltz3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          Oh undoubtedly, plus that record will likely never be beaten with the money in the game. Having more European cups than league titles is baffling.

                          [–]Nimonic 19 points20 points  (3 children)

                          It's usually us that has those records thanks to the City super team and Fergie.

                          You only ever finished 2nd behind us once under Fergie. Three other times you finished right behind us, but we didn't win the league. Our biggest competitive rivals in the Premier League era were Arsenal and then Chelsea (and then briefly City - and I guess you could put Newcastle and even Blackburn earlier in there for a bit).

                          You did get 86 points that one time though, and that's pretty great for 2nd.

                          [–]elusivemelancholy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                          The fact we got 97 points one year and didn't win the league still baffles me.

                          [–]B1GsHoTbg 5 points6 points  (1 child)

                          Fergie managed to scrape a league title thanks to Federico fucking Macheda. While we managed to lose to a Boro side who got relegated the same season, drawing twice vs Pulis newly promoted Stoke w.o scoring, drawing Hull at home and somehow losing to a Pavlyuchenko stoppage time winner after absolutely battering Spurs for 90 mins

                          [–]justafatgoat 38 points39 points  (30 children)

                          I obviously notice things like this more as a Newcastle fan but it's like that season Derby set the lowest points total - they only won 1 game all season. Of course it was against us lol and we've always been the type to lose to Wigan, then lose to Hull, then beat Man United 1-0.

                          A truly wonderful and weird club, but as I said most people can probably pull similiar circumstances for their own club and it's just confirmation bias!

                          [–]skjall 31 points32 points  (10 children)

                          The final game of 2016 against Spurs was legendary. Already relegated, playing against Spurs desperate to hang on to second place ahead of bitter rivals Arsenal.

                          Fast forward, Newcastle win 5-1 with Mitrovic both scoring and getting sent off, sealing Spurs' 3rd place finish in a season where they spent roughly 99% of the time putting the pressure on, getting close to the top at many points.

                          [–]justafatgoat 9 points10 points  (9 children)

                          Been saying it since before this season started, man I miss Mitro and would love him back

                          [–]risheeb1002 28 points29 points  (0 children)

                          We save Hasenhüttl's job every year

                          [–]tarkaliotta 9 points10 points  (5 children)

                          Always enjoyed our champions league record of having been the only side to progress from the first group stage after losing our first 3 games.

                          Then almost doing it again in the second group.

                          [–]akskeleton_47 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                          Even Atalanta progressed to the KO stages after losing their first 3 games in the 19/20 season

                          [–]tarkaliotta 7 points8 points  (3 children)

                          Yeah, I really meant ‘having been the only team up until then’. The format’s obviously different now but that feat by Atalanta is probably more impressive than ours was.

                          Although on the way we did beat that great Juve team of Nedved and Del Piero at St James’ Park.

                          [–]Lem_201 11 points12 points  (1 child)

                          Derby got 4 out of their 11 points from you lot that season, only Newcastle and Fulham didn't win against them that season.

                          [–]justafatgoat 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                          aye, that's me club

                          *wipes away tear*

                          [–]ManchesterDevil99 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                          Derby Vs Newcastle in 07/08 was something else.

                          36% of Derby's ENTIRE points tally that season came from games against Newcastle.

                          [–]mskruba12 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                          I think Huddersfield from a few years back beat that with Wolves giving them like 40% of their points.

                          [–]Lost_And_NotFound 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                          I remember watching a Prem game once and they were showing highlights of Rooney’s best ever goals, must have reached 150 Prem goals or something.

                          So many of the goals were against Newcastle it was like he had a vendetta.

                          [–]justafatgoat 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                          again could be confirmation bias but I've always said every "Greatest Premier League goals!" compilations, it feels like every goal is either scored by Shearer, or is against Newcastle lol

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                            [–]AdministrativeLaugh2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                            Our poor top at Christmas Day record still haunts me. We’ve been top of the PL tree at Xmas on six occasions but only won it once.

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                              [–]ACulturedLeftFoot 22 points23 points  (1 child)

                              Don't worry, we will join you come May haha! Inevitable City 15 streak winning run come Feb

                              [–]obvious_bot 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                              City 20 game winning run when everyone gets back from the WC and Haaland has just been waiting

                              [–]Quiet-Cartoonist1689 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                              Ferguson innit

                              [–]Toxic20022 2 points3 points  (8 children)

                              what was the story of that year? Injuries or bad form after winter break?

                              [–]Belfastfella 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                              Man United played like a team possessed after February, with Cantona scoring vital goals every week and Schmeichel bossing it in nets.

                              The big shift was Newcastle vs Man United in March 96 - Newcastle absolutely battered Man United, Schmeichel played the game of his life and the reds stole it with another Cantona strike. If Newcastle win that, it goes to seven points and Man United are done. Instead it's one point and Man United have all the momentum.

                              On top of that Keegan wasn't an actor; his great strengths were his boundless enthusiasm, his idealism and his transparency. Which is brilliant when times are good, and got Newcastle to that point in the first place, but when the heat is on you want a manager to act like everything is fine even when its clearly not.

                              This picture sums it up. He's put too much of himself into it and everyone knows he's spent.

                              [–]Kreindeker 33 points34 points  (5 children)

                              Honestly the Wikipedia page sums it up as well as any response you'll get

                              Started well, had a 12 point lead with 15 to go, had an absolute collapse where they couldn't buy a win, and also Alex Ferguson got inside Kevin Keegan's head and did a little jig in there, eventually culminating in Keegan's famous rant

                              [–]Cubbll17 11 points12 points  (3 children)

                              I adore that rant. It's up there with the Liverpool 4-3 image when collymore scored and he's slumped over the advertsing board.

                              [–]WikiSummarizerBot 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                              1995–96 Newcastle United F.C. season

                              Season summary

                              The 1995–96 season saw Sir John Hall's millions allow Newcastle to invest heavily in players from across the world. With a total of some £16 million spent on the signings of Les Ferdinand, David Ginola, Warren Barton and Shaka Hislop before the start of the season, Kevin Keegan's team made a strong start. Colombian striker Faustino Asprilla and England midfielder David Batty were also attracted to the north-east in February 1996 for a combined total of around £11 million. An explosive start to the season saw Newcastle storm to the top of the Premier League table.

                              [ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

                              [–]Blackdoor-59 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                              Newcastle out here catching strays

                              [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                              You didn't love it enough.

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                                [–]Lunadjuk 503 points504 points  (0 children)

                                Didn’t need to see this today if im honest

                                [–]deanochips 749 points750 points  (57 children)

                                same table with additional context
                                 
                                https://imgur.com/a/U7M8F0N
                                 

                                [–]hercules-rockefeller 454 points455 points  (20 children)

                                Fucking hell I do not remember Wigan doing that in 2005. Hadn't they just been promoted?

                                [–]AdministrativeLaugh2 320 points321 points  (9 children)

                                Teams just didn’t really know how to play them, it happens sometimes with newly promoted sides.

                                Plus, not to diminish them because it’s still impressive, but they had a nice start to the season.

                                In 10 of their first 12 games, they played Charlton, Sunderland, WBA, Boro, Everton, Bolton, Newcastle, Villa, Fulham, and Pompey. Of those, only Newcastle and Bolton finished in the top half.

                                [–]tarkaliotta 96 points97 points  (6 children)

                                Yeah I used to watch them a lot around that time and it was kind of fascinating, because in the promotion season the team was built around this formidable strike partnership of Roberts and Ellington, which got broken up after the latter left for WBA against Paul Jewel’s wishes.

                                But then he turned out to be shit in the premier league and his replacement, Camara, was absolutely electric that season. Just a really gutsy team with a lot of players who had come all the way from the 3rd tier with them; Bullard, Baines, McCulloch, De Zeeuw etc.

                                I think you’re right, probably a combination of opposition underestimating them and Wigan being surprisingly direct, almost suicidally so at times. Plus a lot of luck and a ‘cup run’ feeling of a journeymen core with nothing to lose.

                                [–]Cwh93 20 points21 points  (0 children)

                                They got to the League Cup Final as well that year. A really great season for them

                                [–]ExchangeBeginning593 8 points9 points  (2 children)

                                Just a quick note the Arjan de Zeeuw had previously played in the Premier League, albeit with Barnsley for their one season in the top flight.

                                [–]tarkaliotta 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                didn't know that actually, fascinating. unfinished business for him!

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                                  [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

                                  formidable strike partnership of Roberts and Ellington, which got broken up after the latter left for WBA against Paul Jewel’s wishes.

                                  for a moment my stupid brain was like wait, did this dude really leave to play women's basketball?

                                  [–]tarkaliotta 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                  may as well have done. i think he ended up in the Derby side that went down with the lowest points tally ever

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                                    [–]ThereIsBearCum 17 points18 points  (2 children)

                                    I think that was the half a season where Zaki was the best Fantasy PL pick in history.

                                    [–]hunegypt 30 points31 points  (0 children)

                                    No, Amr Zaki having that amazing start to the league was in the 2008-2009 season. It's sad because he could have been an amazing player with his talent and he was only 25 but he ruined his career with his behaviour.

                                    This was Wigan's squad in the 2005-2006 season:

                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%9306_Wigan_Athletic_F.C._season#Squad_statistics

                                    [–]ManchesterDevil99 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                    Nha that was 08/09, where Wigan had another decent start to the season.

                                    [–]TheDavinci1998 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                    They then proceded to get 26 points in remaining 26 games and finished midtable, so I guess teams learned how to play them

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                                      [–]Lem_201 120 points121 points  (14 children)

                                      That Southampton season was the reason why I didn't believe in Leicester chances of winning the league for a long time in 15/16.

                                      [–]Modnal 137 points138 points  (13 children)

                                      Well, the difference is that once Leicester was in the lead, we weren't allowed to hunt them down since fox hunting is illegal in England nowadays

                                      [–]ManchesterDevil99 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                      I think murdering Saints is also kind of frowned upon though.

                                      [–]Modnal 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                      Well, most of the saints in england didn't exactly die of natural causes so...

                                      [–]GP3ElPresidente 30 points31 points  (10 children)

                                      Honestly Arsenal had probably one of the biggest meltdowns in PL history in the 2nd half of the season in 2015/16

                                      [–]Modnal 100 points101 points  (7 children)

                                      Meltdown is a little harsh since we only lost 3 games (all odd goal losses) in the 2nd half and 2 of those were against Chelsea and United. It was mainly just Cazorla getting injured and Giroud forgetting how to score that caused so many draws

                                      [–]hercules-rockefeller 63 points64 points  (3 children)

                                      Yeah don't think it's really in the conversation for biggest collapse. Liverpool in 2014, United in 2012, Arsenal themselves in 2008, Newcastle in 96 were all worse

                                      [–]Modnal 37 points38 points  (0 children)

                                      Yeah, a meltdown in my book is when barely anything works anymore, not just losing your edge. I mean if you're talking about meltdown in the 15/16 season, Chelsea is a better example

                                      [–]caelum400 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                      Arsenal 98/99 is one that gets forgotten a lot. Lost away at Leeds in the penultimate game of the season. United were drawing every other game in that run-in, Arsenal very feasibly should have done the double.

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                                        [–]caandjr 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                        Arsenal had all the momentum in the world after Welbeck’s last minute goal, reducing the gap o just two or three points. But somehow proceeded to lose to a Man Utd side who played some kids, and then lost to Swansea at home, those two losses basically killed all the hopes for the title.

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                                            [–]trenbollocks 60 points61 points  (8 children)

                                            What the hell were Wigan players being fed in 05/06?

                                            [–]Yoraffe 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                                            Zaki intensifies

                                            [–]four_four_three 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                                            Wrong season

                                            This was Bullard intensifies

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                                              [–]Significant_Hold_910 27 points28 points  (2 children)

                                              Only OGs remember Southamptons 2014 title charge

                                              [–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

                                              It's crazy because They were still top 4 at like March if I remember correctly.

                                              It's kind of funny because looking back that team was actually stacked with talent but at the time I just didn't know any of their players.

                                              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                              there's been this strange revisionism in some of our fanbase that we actually underachieved under Koeman, especially by not qualifying for the champions league in 2015/16 when all the top teams were off it, think 7th and 6th under him was probably about right

                                              [–]deanochips 28 points29 points  (0 children)

                                              credit to /u/AllahwhoSnackbar who posted this on /r/gunners

                                              [–]Loose_Cardiologist89 13 points14 points  (2 children)

                                              18/19 is wrong, isn't it? United started fairly poorly and had 26 points in 17 games when Mourinho was sacked.

                                              [–]AllahwhoSnackbar 21 points22 points  (0 children)

                                              Whoops, good catch - updated:

                                              https://imgur.com/a/U7M8F0N

                                              [–]aidanbby 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                                              It should be Liverpool with 30 points. Manchester United had 20 points at this point. Source: https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/16-november-2018/

                                              [–]akskeleton_47 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                              No way were we 2nd in the 18/19 season after 12 games

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                                                [–]Modnal 1156 points1157 points  (17 children)

                                                So by the logic of pseudostatistics, this means we can't end lower than 2nd place, with a 89% chance of ending up in 1st

                                                [–]g0ksen 474 points475 points  (4 children)

                                                Time to open the champagne

                                                [–]alfred_27 225 points226 points  (2 children)

                                                Or you could break records and break the statistics as well being the first team to fall out of top 3

                                                [–]Dangerous-Umpire5874 108 points109 points  (0 children)

                                                Quick maffs

                                                [–]FakeCatzz 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                                                Stick some confidence intervals in there and you're golden.

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                                                  [–]VonLinus 480 points481 points  (19 children)

                                                  What was the team in second place in each of those years on at that point though. Arsenal are being chased by the Terminator. We'll see how it ends up.

                                                  [–]hambodpm 249 points250 points  (9 children)

                                                  This comment has it. You guys have the slenderest lead of all teams from a quick eyeball

                                                  [–]MegaMugabe21 89 points90 points  (6 children)

                                                  Yeah it's not happening for us this year barring a City injury crisis, or we go on a miracle run.

                                                  [–]telcomet 40 points41 points  (2 children)

                                                  Definitely going to be tough unless Arteta plays the kids for the domestic cups and bombs out of the EL. Must say though the Spurs and Liverpool wins were very impressive, while the Leeds game had champion quality to it that has been lacking last year

                                                  [–]Welcome--Thrillho 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                                                  It won’t be this year but we have the youngest team and plenty of room to grow the squad. Time is on our side.

                                                  We’re about as well positioned as you can be without the backing of an Arab state, basically.

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                                                    [–]PhD_Cunnilingus 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                                                    Same lead as City Pool in 18/19.

                                                    [–]Shandow14 43 points44 points  (0 children)

                                                    Uncle Ian said exactly that, which is a great point.

                                                    [–]Comicksands 30 points31 points  (2 children)

                                                    11/12 - we lost by an Aguero. Actually insane start by city, better than the pep teams

                                                    [–]prophecy0091 54 points55 points  (1 child)

                                                    Wrong. You actually lost by an Agueroooooooooooooo

                                                    [–]AGUEROO0OO 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                    Aguerooooooooooo!!!

                                                    [–]Cwh93 15 points16 points  (3 children)

                                                    I'd be pissed if this is the season City blink first in a tight title race.

                                                    [–]VonLinus 51 points52 points  (2 children)

                                                    I wouldn't be I think. Id be ok with it

                                                    [–]Wonderful-Sky-6389 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                    Even if it were to happen on the last day of the season after you had a 10 point lead with 5 matches remaining?

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                                                        [–]AfricanRain 627 points628 points  (58 children)

                                                        It is actually kinda sad that cos of the existence of Pep’s City we can start a season this well and still not really be able to dream of a title cos his squad of super soldiers are liable to win 20 games in a row at any time

                                                        [–]InTheMiddleGiroud 82 points83 points  (8 children)

                                                        We're sucked into hoping City drop points every week, and it's just setting yourself up for weekly disappointment.

                                                        Any other era and a team with 31 points after 12 games would be touted as title favorites. Now, rightfully, the question is how long we can make it a race. Although I do think we should get credit for the fact that there still is a race to talk about.

                                                        [–]domalino 127 points128 points  (1 child)

                                                        I think every title winning side since 2016 has gone on a 13+ match winning run (the record before Conte broke it in 16/17 was 12).

                                                        The standards needed to win have just gone up so much since Leicester won.

                                                        [–]reddevil9229 116 points117 points  (5 children)

                                                        Liverpool fans say hi

                                                        [–]Brashmate 91 points92 points  (4 children)

                                                        They are the best Liverpool side in premier league history and they still only won it once

                                                        [–]MarvellousG 30 points31 points  (1 child)

                                                        I’m annoyed how much it constantly still annoys me :(

                                                        [–]Comicksands 15 points16 points  (1 child)

                                                        Actually surprised none of the other 90 point Liverpool teams are here

                                                        [–]sunnycherub 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                                                        Feel like as a whole Arsenal have probably had the least animosity towards City out of all the top 6

                                                        Think this may be the season that changes

                                                        [–]Goofykidd 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                        So funny considering we probably hated them the most in the early takeover days.

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                                                          [–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (5 children)

                                                          Perhaps this turns into the 2016 equivalent where everyone kept saying "No way can they actually win the title" until they do, but despite the strong start I still would bet my house Arsenal do not win the league. Once we get to that February, March, April slug of the PL season I can't see them keeping up with City.

                                                          [–]dhfiwdieig 9 points10 points  (2 children)

                                                          Betting your house on it doesn't sound like a good idea

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                                                            [–]PercySledge 30 points31 points  (1 child)

                                                            Very upsetting to see this as a Newcastle fan. Never forget

                                                            [–]Butch_Meat_Hook 31 points32 points  (0 children)

                                                            It's funny how quickly the media will go from punditry about how Arsenal 'isnt a top 6 club anymore' to 'can they win the title this season?'. It just shows they have no idea what they're talking about and will run with whatever sensationalism they can generate

                                                            [–]JonnyArtois 56 points57 points  (0 children)

                                                            Luckily the 1995/96 season didn't finish so nothing embaressing happened.

                                                            [–]MothamidAli 62 points63 points  (3 children)

                                                            Like Ian Wright said. None those teams had a cracked Man City to compete with. Be nice to dream but realistically it’s still City favourites

                                                            [–]hambodpm 109 points110 points  (3 children)

                                                            When do we see Arteta's reenactment of "I would love it..."

                                                            [–]ManchesterDevil99 44 points45 points  (0 children)

                                                            "I'd love it if we fogging beat them!"

                                                            *draws picture of himself shagging Pep on the whiteboard*

                                                            [–]reddevil9229 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                                            They save those for the Amazon show

                                                            [–]KnightsOfCidona 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                            ''When you say something like that, about a man like Jesse Lingard...''

                                                            [–]PiIICIinton 24 points25 points  (2 children)

                                                            as a Liverpool supporter I just don't have it in me to crush my gooner mates with reality yet. been on this ride before, know how it inevitably ends...

                                                            [–]attilathetwat 74 points75 points  (10 children)

                                                            As a Liverpool fan, I would like Arsenal to win otherwise the league becomes like all the other one track ponies.

                                                            [–]SirDowns 43 points44 points  (4 children)

                                                            As a Liverpool fan you also know that won't happen without a near perfect season from Arsenal which Is very unlikely.

                                                            [–]Pearlsaver 14 points15 points  (3 children)

                                                            If we win, it'll have to be some miraculous season with 3 key city players getting injured plus no key arsenal player getting injured. I see no other way where we win the title

                                                            [–]attilathetwat 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                            Painfully.

                                                            As we know City are relentless. I am old enough to have seen Liverpool in the 80’s and this team has been better.

                                                            You need everything going your way but I hope you do it

                                                            [–]NahimBZ 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                            Yeah and probably we need City to go deep into the Champions League, so that at some point they may be forced to rest key players. Even then the chances are low since, you know, their 2nd team has players like Mahrez and Grealish.

                                                            [–]Downtown-Bag-6333 16 points17 points  (2 children)

                                                            One track pony isn’t a phrase, one trick pony is a phrase but it doesn’t apply here

                                                            [–]ThrowerWayACount 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                            Even though the original user has bizarrely taken offence, I appreciate this comment

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                                                                [–]SP0oONY 129 points130 points  (12 children)

                                                                Come join us Arsenal. The pain never really goes away.

                                                                [–]S_Firas 74 points75 points  (5 children)

                                                                No need to join, still suffering from 07/08...

                                                                [–]fuckimbackonreddit9 53 points54 points  (4 children)

                                                                15/16 doesn’t sit right either if we’re being honest

                                                                [–]blazincannons 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                                                                13/14 for me.

                                                                [–]_deep_blue_ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                13/14 was the last time I truly believed it was on. Ramsey was on fire, we signed Özil, and were playing beautiful football. In the end we fell away and it was between Liverpool and City.

                                                                I never really felt we’d do it in 2015/16. We just didn’t seem like a side that had it in us to go the distance.

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                                                                    [–]HardturmStadion 32 points33 points  (2 children)

                                                                    95-97 Newcastle is one of the most iconic PL squads ever and no one will change my mind. Shearer, Lee, Beardsley, Sir Les, Asprilla, Ginola, Prince Phillipe Albert...

                                                                    [–]HardturmStadion 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Looking for number 5, with Philippe AlbeEEEEERT OHHH

                                                                    [–]PurpleSi 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                    ...Johnny Bez and Big Pav...

                                                                    [–]v1nzy 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Can we decline your invitation

                                                                    [–]AhmadShadow 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                    As much as Winning it all is tge dream, We surely don't mind finishing 2nd tbf, would still be great achievement everything considered(as long as it's not a painful finish of conceding a last 5 minute goal in last fixture to shift the title away)

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                                                                      [–]Kazundo_Goda 27 points28 points  (1 child)

                                                                      I am gonna suck my own cock if Arsenal finishes first this season. Tag me.

                                                                      [–]dhfiwdieig 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                      Prepare for the worst, either start training your flexibility or you'll need to remove a couple of ribs if it actually happens

                                                                      [–]obinnasmg 39 points40 points  (13 children)

                                                                      Arsenal about to go through what Liverpool’s been going through; rack up 90+ points only for city to rack up more.

                                                                      [–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (12 children)

                                                                      City don't look as dominant as they used to . They concede way more than usual this season. I can also see them losing way more points than were used to during the past seasons but fortunately for them i don't think Arsenal nor any other team is on the same level as the Liverpool team that competed with city in recent years (racking up 90+ points)

                                                                      [–]maverick4002 16 points17 points  (1 child)

                                                                      Huh? Recent City winners haven't been out of sight this early. Last year around this time we were talking about Chrlsea and Spurs as challengers. City usually start slow and then just pick up speed whilst everyone falls off. It's early going still

                                                                      [–]sunnycherub 10 points11 points  (1 child)

                                                                      Hey so idk if you’ve heard of this guy called Haaland, he’s pretty good at this whole football thing though

                                                                      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                                                      he’s pretty good at this whole football thing though

                                                                      He is indeed incredibly good at scoring but when it comes to not conceding goals, it's a whole different story. Possession is City's first line of defense. In other words as long as they don't lose the ball, their opponent is not a threat but when playing Haaland city is minus one player during the possession phase which means his teammates have less solutions to pass to when pressed which results in more lost possessions, counter attacks and goals conceded. So for Pep it's all about finding the good balance between haaland's efficiency and the team's possession.

                                                                      That's the reason both KDB and Pep are expecting Haaland to be more involved in the building phase in order for city to get better...

                                                                      [–]21otiriK 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                                      City don't look as dominant as they used to

                                                                      What? City start slow usually always. They have minimal pre-season and peak later in the year.

                                                                      They concede way more than usual this season

                                                                      They've conceded 9xGA, the fewest in the league by more than 2. That's only 0.75 per game. Quite a lot of that when they're up and cruising in games like at 6-1 vs United when they went 442 with Gomez and Bernardo in midfield. The 17/18 centurions conceded 0.65 per game, for context.

                                                                      I can also see them losing way more points than were used to during the past seasons

                                                                      They've dropped points at Liverpool, Newcastle and Villa. Most teams will drop points at the first two of those this season. If you think City are underwhelming when they've been in first gear most of the year so far, you're in for a shock after the WC. They're always best when the games come thick and fast and they hit that rhythm. They do it nearly every year around or after Christmas.

                                                                      [–]LucasSummers 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                      Because the team is still not in sync yet, at least at this stage. Pep’s City usually start slow.

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                                                                        [–]PurpleSi 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                                        And it still fucking hurts

                                                                        [–]etan1122 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                                        City 2 points back and they’ve yet to play. Wouldn’t put much into it until they play, even then city will put 18 games together and still win.

                                                                        [–]ThomasHL 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                                                        City could be 6 points behind with 1 game remaining and I wouldn't feel confident. Pep finds a way

                                                                        [–]kosembnihat 22 points23 points  (0 children)

                                                                        Arteta would love it if they beat them, LOVE IT

                                                                        [–]rahulrossi 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                        Liverpool actually won 26/27 that season, crazy.

                                                                        [–]EvilDaleCooper 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                        2nd

                                                                        [–]captain_beefheart14 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                        I really wish this would stop getting spread around. Totally superstitious about this now.

                                                                        [–]_thad_castle_ 30 points31 points  (47 children)

                                                                        Final position: 4th

                                                                        [–]Modnal 116 points117 points  (46 children)

                                                                        4th is the target, anything above that is a bonus. We have a really young squad with lots of room for improvement, and if we can get CL we can both extend those players and attract people to strengthen

                                                                        [–]city_city_city 32 points33 points  (0 children)

                                                                        I would be shocked if you didn't get Champions League

                                                                        [–]_thad_castle_ 19 points20 points  (1 child)

                                                                        I was just kidding. I hope you win the league. Difficult with City chasing but top 2 would be good too.

                                                                        [–]tocitus 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                                                                        Aye but this is going to be such a bizarre season with that massive break halfway through.

                                                                        Could come back to teams falling off in form or big players getting injured etc

                                                                        Have a feeling this could be a super weird finish to a season

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                                                                          [–]notafeetlongcucumber 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Weren't Arsenal the first or one of the first teams to not win the Prem after leading on Christmas day?

                                                                          [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                                                          Mourinho's 2'nd Chelsea doing better than first one.

                                                                          That 2014/15 played some of the best football in pl

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