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Opinion Piece"It's Been Five Years Since Hollow Knight: Silksong Was Officially Announced" - Nintendolife (nintendolife.com)

submitted by YasuhiroK

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[–]OkaKoroMeteor 1104 points1105 points  (120 children)

Powerfully strange to think that this game had a fully playable demo at E3 2019.

I think the last new media we got was from the Xbox 06/22 trailer. At this point, I just hope it comes out some day.

[–]Panda_hat 252 points253 points  (36 children)

I imagine they've started over and rewritten things from the ground up several times at this point.

Pure speculation but it feels like they might be a bit lost in the sauce with it. They probably should have just done a new game instead of a strange prequel-sequel hybrid deal. Too many restrictions.

[–]RoughlyTreeFiddy 288 points289 points  (29 children)

Honestly as a developer (though not in gaming) this just feels like a really bad case of scope creep. Team Cherry is a small independent studio with basically unlimited money from HK's success and no managers/publishers to tell them no.

You start with a map bigger than the originals (because it's a sequel right? everything has to be bigger) and then someone has an idea for a cool new area so you add it. Then another extra boss, extra npc questlines, extra charms, etc. With nobody there to say "enough" this can go on indefinitely. It also adds more and more time to QA/test because there's now way more bugs you introduce.

[–]Landpls 197 points198 points  (13 children)

I sure hope they introduce more bugs. It'd be boring if you just encounter the same bugs from the last game.

[–]Panda_hat 64 points65 points  (1 child)

Those aren't bugs, they're features! But also bugs.

[–]Starslip [score hidden]  (0 children)

Featured Bugs

[–]Lezzles 50 points51 points  (10 children)

a small independent studio with basically unlimited money from HK's success and no managers/publishers to tell them no.

/r/games is salivating at the thought. No managers or publisher interference will surely lead to the perfect game. Just ask Valve!

[–]MultiMarcus [score hidden]  (9 children)

Hasn’t it led to some really great games and hardware? Sure, they have had their duds, but Alyx and the Steamdeck are great.

[–]EvrythingWithSpicyCC [score hidden]  (0 children)

"We sort of had to collectively admit we were wrong on the premise that you will be happiest if you work on something you personally want to work on the most."

This is one of the lead designers talking about what happened with Half Life Alyx. My understanding is that the only reason Alyx ever got out the door is that Valve went back to bosses and deadlines. I think this is also how Steamdeck managed to ship instead of becoming one more addition to their mountain of undelivered vaporware.

There’s a lot of commentary coming out from Valve around 2020 about how they had gone back on their lofty ideals of a flat organizational structure and realized that if they wanted to actually make games again they would need task drivers keeping people working on those games

[–]GlitteringCow9725 [score hidden]  (2 children)

Yeah, their one game every decade is always great.

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    [–]victori0us_secret 43 points44 points  (0 children)

    The mythical man month suggests there is nothing more dangerous than a successful team's second project, for exactly the reasons you state.

    [–]TheGRS [score hidden]  (1 child)

    In game development this seems to happen to small teams who hit the jackpot. I'm old enough to remember Duke Nukem Forever. Similar issue, they even had a working demo pretty early on, but they let scope creep happen over and over. They only released the game because of Gearbox intervening, and looking at the finished product I think that was a pretty questionable move.

    [–]rezzyk [score hidden]  (1 child)

    Yup. I think it’s scope creep. Either that or Hornet’s combat isn’t fun which could ruin the whole game.

    I don’t care that it’s not out. The lack of communication though is really strange.

    Hopefully when this releases it’s good, and not a mess like Sports Story. Yikes.

    If it actually releases this year it has some completion for best Metroidvania that’s for sure.

    [–]TheMaskedMan2 [score hidden]  (0 children)

    I do have the small concern that maybe Hornets combat doesn’t ‘click’ like the Knights. The simplicity might’ve been part of the charm.

    [–]schema-f 16 points17 points  (0 children)

    "Sounds perfectly fine to me!" - Chris Roberts, probably.

    [–]TheNewTonyBennett [score hidden]  (0 children)

    This is precisely why it took 14+ years for Duke Nukem Forever to come out.

    They kept wanting the newest tech involved and by the time they'd finish up something major for the game...a new type of tech had evolved out from other studios. So they'd adapt it and start crafting again. Then new tech came around, so they wanted to adapt that and so on and so on and so on.

    [–]ATTICUSone [score hidden]  (0 children)

    The only game where I'm actually really thrilled to run into all kinds of new bugs! DOMA DOMA DOMA!

    [–]skeenerbug[🍰] [score hidden]  (0 children)

    These type of games seem like they would be particularly difficult to make given the way certain areas open up after you get a certain item, etc. but idk

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      [–]Tribalrage24 17 points18 points  (1 child)

      I remember reading that it first started as DLC/addon content for HK. Then it got big enough they decided to make it its own game. With every year that passes I assume there is even more (self imposed) expectation to make the game more.

      [–]ColtonHD [score hidden]  (0 children)

      It was initially a Kickstarter goal to play as different characters, I know Hornet(Protag or Silk song) was one of the two additional characters they added.

      At some point they realized that just shoehorning Hornet into the Hallownest made no sense, and that the way they differentiated the playstyle of the character would require building entirely new encounters.

      Hollow Knight is an excellently tuned game, and mashing Hornet into it couldn't have been good from a level design standpoint, unless they made Hornet control almosr exactly the same.

      [–]Pyrobob4 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      They probably should have just done a new game instead of a strange prequel-sequel hybrid deal. Too many restrictions.

      Maybe. But the opportunity to play as one of the games most beloved and interesting characters, with such a fun move-set was just too good to pass up.

      [–]stenebralux [score hidden]  (1 child)

      Eh.. besides the entitlement (not from you) why all the speculation is bad? 

      I can easily see them simply taking time because they are really working on every single detail of this. 

      Like.. it's clear the inspirations they took from Souls games... well the reason those games are able to spawn all those content creators talking about statues and geography and item placement and architecture is because FromSoftware really puts time and effort to consider it. Sure, there's a lot of silly speculation and theorizing, but it's all there. 

      Maybe these guys, who have now infinite money cheat, are trying to do just that and make the best game they could make. 

      Except:

      • They are working with 100X less people.

      • They have no boss or shareholders to answer to and force them to crunch and give up their lives for it. 

      • There was also a pandemic in the middle of development. That would hit a small team harder and make work not fun. For all we know they might as well have stopped working for over a year.

      I get that people get frustrated with no communication.. but at least is consistent. They gave no date, they promised nothing, they released almost no info.

      Everyone's fears might prove to be right.. but until we hear something concrete.. it could go either way really.

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        [–]makeshifttoaster02 230 points231 points  (59 children)

        Its funny - there are indie games with 10+ years of development time at this point, like Radio the Universe, Secrets of Grindea, Heartforth Alicia, etc.

        There also games with similarly sporadic updates, with similar (or even worse) levels of communication from the devs - Sector X from Dennaton, N1RV Ann-A from Sukeban, Katana Zero DLC from Askiisoft, etc.

        Yet for some reason, something about the wait for Silksong just feels so much more overbearing and painful. If I had to guess why, it’s because people keep memeing on it instead of just letting the rest of us quietly forget about it until its release.

        [–]Prince_Uncharming 318 points319 points  (15 children)

        It’s also because it’s simply more anticipated than the rest of the games you listed. Hollow Knight was a huge success. I follow gaming quite a bit and have only heard of Katana Zero from the list you just put up.

        [–]MumrikDK 22 points23 points  (0 children)

        I've heard about Katana Zero plenty of times, but none of what that post mentions gets into anywhere near the stratosphere of people's enthusiasm for Hollow Knight, so it is an odd comparison.

        Of course the follow up to a very popular game is more anticipated :D

        [–]MVRKHNTR 70 points71 points  (0 children)

        Yeah, I've never heard anyone call the prequels to any of the games listed here one of the best ever made.

        [–]SnowingSilently 24 points25 points  (1 child)

        All three of them are from developers of pretty popular indie games. Dennaton made Hotline Miami and Sukeban made VA-11 Hall-A. But you're right, Hollow Knight sold about 4 times as much as Hotline Miami on Steam, 10 times as much as VA-11 Hall-A, and over 5 times as much as Katana Zero. It is in another league in terms of success and recognition.

        [–]FleaLimo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

        I've worked with a few people who are relatively ignorant of videogames who still played Hollow Knight (mainly through the Switch)

        Something about that game really broke through to people.

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          [–]kroqeteer 32 points33 points  (0 children)

          I think it's just because those games exist in a vaccuum. Silksong is an agonizing wait because its a sequel to Hollow Knight, an instant GOAT contender in its genre, and that was Team Cherry's first game. None of the games you mention even approach that level of reputation. I think there's a deeper sense of "if they were that good before, what have they learned since?"

          [–]Realsan 45 points46 points  (11 children)

          Is Patrick Rothfuss a developer on this?

          [–]OwlMugMan 20 points21 points  (3 children)

          Its a collab with George R R and Dr Dre

          [–]thoomfish 12 points13 points  (0 children)

          Executive Producer: Gabe Newell

          [–]conquer69 [score hidden]  (0 children)

          Project Manager: Chris Roberts

          [–]3140senfleb [score hidden]  (0 children)

          I'm pretty sure they were in talks to add Lauren Hill, and yes, she is making them start over...poor Christopher Larkin and Dr Dre already put so much work into the score!

          [–]corvettee01 7 points8 points  (5 children)

          Nah, they didn't lie about having a playable demo if they got enough charity donations, then ghost the backers like he did with his chapter reveal.

          [–]Realsan 2 points3 points  (4 children)

          Oh man, I stopped following him years ago. Did he really do that?

          [–]corvettee01 5 points6 points  (3 children)

          Yes. He said if his charity reached a certain milestone, he'd release the first chapter for his next book, which he's been "working on" for thirteen years.

          The milestone was reached, and he ignored his fanbase and too my knowledge, still hasn't released the chapter almost two years later. He's a fucking loser.

          [–]Realsan [score hidden]  (1 child)

          Damn. That's crazy.

          [–]TranClan67 [score hidden]  (0 children)

          He also moved the goalpost on that one and said that the reason it was taking so long was cause he was trying to find the right voice actors to read the chapter.

          But like nobody asked for that.

          [–]IceKrabby [score hidden]  (0 children)

          Jesus, I remember getting the first book in high school, as a gift from a tutor. Then I was excited because the second book was coming out soon.

          And honestly, for me personally, while I loved the two books as a teen, as an adult looking back... I dunno if I even wanna reread them. I don't know if they'd hold up to me lol.

          You know when your brain hypes up some nostalgic piece of media? I'm somewhat afraid of dispelling that. Not many things have survived the replay/rewatch/reread of nostalgia and made it out intact.

          [–]monsquesce 15 points16 points  (0 children)

          Gotta wait for their charity scam.

          [–]Halucinogenije 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Yet for some reason, something about the wait for Silksong just feels so much more overbearing and painful.

          Because a lot of us thought we will see the game in 2019, trailer made it look like it's almost finished, plus they've been working on it for some time as it was supposed to be a DLC. Then 5 years passed by.

          I mean, remember that at some point people were memeing Silksong and Elden ring together?

          Feels like Elden ring came out a long time ago. And still no Silksong in sight.

          [–]its_just_hunter 23 points24 points  (8 children)

          N1rv Ann-a is one of my most anticipated indie games, but I swear it’s never going to be finished at this rate.

          Edit: probably could have worded that better, I’m aware that the game isn’t being worked on currently. Still in denial that I’ll probably never get to play it though.

          [–]Blindjanitor 34 points35 points  (3 children)

          Check the Steam forums. Its been on hiatus for over 5 years due to the writer's mental health. Probably wont ever be finished.

          [–]BeholdingBestWaifu 8 points9 points  (0 children)

          That makes sense, I think around 5 years ago there was some drama in the spanish-speaking internet about those guys, didn't look into it back then and can't find it now, though.

          I hope they're getting better.

          [–]its_just_hunter 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          Yeah I used to regularly check their blog, I hope they’re doing alright.

          [–]Reggiardito 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          Wow. I didn't know this. That's a god damn shame. Also can't believe it's been over 5 years since the first game

          [–]Trem45 9 points10 points  (1 child)

          As the guy before me said , the game's in hiatus due to one of the devs being diagnosed with depression and deciding to focus on treating themselves, they have released a few mini projects since then but chances are you're not going to be hearing about that game for a long time if ever

          [–]BroodLol 6 points7 points  (0 children)

          The most recent mention of it from the devs blog is from June 2023, where they say it is still being worked on, but yes it'll probably be a while.

          the writer spends a lot of time writing about the history of Japanese horseracing through the medium of a horse-girl-racing gacha game (https://umadacchidensetsu.com/vodka-the-quest-to-be-cool/#more-1591), this has lead to a joke in the VallHall community "Nirvana will come out when the Uma Musume servers shut down"

          [–]Matsukiiii 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          it'll be a good while before n1rv ann-a, its on hold while the devs work on an entirely different project. "project d" is their current focus and they're putting out dev logs and previews for it on their site

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            [–]ow_meer 5 points6 points  (0 children)

            Heartforth Alicia

            I remember planning on buying this one for my PS VITA!

            [–]Kipzz 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            At least Secrets of Grindea has a dev-blog that's gotten (semi, sometime a break for holidays)-consistent updates every week for the past 10+ years. The problem is that they're really bad on saying when the game will be actually done, but right now they seem to be an in actual final stretch as opposed to the "final stretches" they were in 2 years ago. Basically seems to just be all credits stuff and the final boss's sprites.

            Silksong has basically nothing. I'd even just take a screenshot once a month.

            [–]ngwoo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            I think it's so painful because everything we've seen about it so far has made it look very very close to completion

            [–]mugdays 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            It's because Hollow Knight is one of the most beloved games of all time.

            [–]lolwatokay 3 points4 points  (0 children)

            Heartforth Alicia

            Dang, I forgot about this one. This also made me look up Mina the Hollower, two years since the kickstarter now.

            OH also Routine, damn, their re-announce trailer is now nearly 18 months old. Man, that shit's never happening.

            You really never know though, Omori eventually did release, as did Cuphead: The Delicious Last Course

            [–]Soderskog 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Radio the Universe

            God, that's a blast from the past.

            [–]Plague_Docktor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Why did you remind me about N1RV Ann-A and Katana Zero DLC...

            [–]Accessx_xDenied 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            i've never heard of any of those titles you listed. maybe thats why hollow knight is more anticipated.

            [–]ksdr-exe [score hidden]  (0 children)

            God, I've been waiting for what feels like ages for that Katana Zero DLC to come out

            [–]WhitewaterBastard [score hidden]  (0 children)

            Wait, Katana Zero was made by fucking Askiisoft? Holy shit, that makes so much sense.

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              [–]Havelok 30 points31 points  (3 children)

              Hollow Knight was a much bigger, longer game than I had anticipated going in.

              I feel like Silksong will be so massive as to outstrip everyone's expectations, at this point.

              [–]Biig_Ideas 10 points11 points  (0 children)

              I think about this a lot

              [–]EdgyEmily 8 points9 points  (0 children)

              I remember looking at the achievement to beat the game in 10 hours and thought I was almost done with the game. Was I wrong.

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                [–]mario8067 [score hidden]  (0 children)

                I’m a Silksong subredditter for a few years… we get news basically once a year confirming that they are at least still working on the game… we actually got that news today so it’s nice to know it’s still being worked on

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                  [–]barbarkbarkov 208 points209 points  (12 children)

                  At this point it does seem strange. Somethings going on behind the scenes and they’ve done a great job at keeping it quiet.

                  [–]JJARTJJ 101 points102 points  (10 children)

                  I'm sure they've retooled portions of the game and are just being incredibly meticulous with play-testing and quality assurance.

                  The one thing I know about Hollow Knight is that you can tell through playing it that they really put their blood, sweat, and tears into its creation. In their eyes, it's a safe bet to say they're wanting Silksong to be even bigger and better than Hollow Knight, a "worthy" sequel. Their funds and resources are on a much different level than when they were developing Hollow Knight.

                  I think that's the safest and simplest answer, that they just have very, very high standards and expectations and aren't letting it out the door until it meets them. Perhaps after it's released at some point they'll divulge what went into its long development and the challenges they faced.

                  [–]barbarkbarkov 41 points42 points  (3 children)

                  Yeah that’s a good perspective. Plus, they’re a small indie team that probably isn’t desperate for money or have a major publisher behind them chomping at the bit. Hollow Knight was a massive hit and is still selling decently 7 years on. They have every season to take their sweet time and make it the best possible game it can be.

                  [–]JJARTJJ 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                  Definitely. It's clear that they certainly thought they would be releasing it a lot sooner and in hindsight, I'm sure they regret announcing it and showing what they did, when they did. But at this point it just is what it is. Sure they should communicate better and acknowledge that they made it seem like it would be releasing a lot earlier. The hunkered down, silent method of doing things is A-ok, but not after they were so public with it and had playable demos first. My stance is that none of that will matter though if and when they end up releasing a very stellar game. Which, I will continue to believe will be the case. No reason not to as Hollow Knight is in my top 5 all time.

                  [–]blanketedgay 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                  I really hope it’s this and not development troubles. I was stung by how badly Sports Story tuned out despite how good Golf Story was.

                  [–]sierrahotel24 [score hidden]  (1 child)

                  This sounds nice, but if they've been working on Silksong since Hollow Knight released, they are closing in on 8 years of development time. For a 2D Metroidvania. That ain't right. Something is going on behind the scenes.

                  [–]JJARTJJ [score hidden]  (0 children)

                  They definitely have not been working on Silk Song since Hollow Knight released. Hollow Knight received four DLCs, the last of which was pushed out in August 2018. Silk Song was originally supposed to be another DLC for Hollow Knight, due to its scope, team cherry decided to change plans and turn the game into a full-blown sequel. We have no idea when they started its development as a full-fledged game, just that it was announced in February 2019.

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                      [–]CMHex 572 points573 points  (64 children)

                      I don't think any fans of Hollow Knight are upset that they're taking their time to make sure it's as good as possible. I do, however, feel it was a mistake for them to announce it so early if they were so (so, so) far from release. This is a problem of their own making.

                      [–]-Eunha- 205 points206 points  (18 children)

                      Didn't they have to announce it early because a DLC was promised due to an incentive being hit? They ended up making it into Silksong, but they pretty much had to announce it.

                      [–]glorpo 179 points180 points  (12 children)

                      They absolutely didn't need to demo it at e3, let Treehouse presenters say "wrapping up development" in 2019, then let xbox insinuate it would release in 2023. This game's marketing has been a trainwreck as far as managing expectations goes.

                      [–]oryes 7 points8 points  (1 child)

                      An incentive that they created themselves?

                      [–]JayZsAdoptedSon 11 points12 points  (2 children)

                      I said the same thing with Mighty No 9, if you cannot do incentives do not do incentives

                      [–]Hakul [score hidden]  (0 children)

                      They did 3 of the 4 incentive DLCs, they just wanted to make a full game with the 4th DLC, which comes at no cost for any backer that was expecting the 4th DLC.

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                        [–]Phihofo 93 points94 points  (9 children)

                        They sort of had to, though.

                        The 56k AUD stretch goal during HK's crowdfunding campaign was a second playable character, which of course ended up being Hornet. Originally Cherry wanted to do a DLC with her as the main character, but the project grew and eventually they've decided to take the step and make it a stand-alone title, Silksong.

                        If they didn't announce it people would likely (and rightfully) get annoyed they didn't meet a stretch goal despite it being funded.

                        [–]lolwatokay 23 points24 points  (1 child)

                        but the project grew

                        Literally the #1 issue with so many Kickstarter games. Scoping and sticking to that scope is a tough skill that even the best designers struggle with, but an important one if you ever want to reach the finish line.

                        [–]monsquesce 20 points21 points  (3 children)

                        I had no clue HK was crowdfunded! What a smash that was.

                        [–]OctorokHero 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                        I remember seeing someone post a trailer for it on /r/gaming saying their friends were working on making a game... I had no idea just how significant that would be.

                        [–]A_Life_of_Lemons [score hidden]  (0 children)

                        You should watch the original kickstarter trailer: https://youtu.be/iS-v4NMQkBg?si=PCq-wxa2oHoyGFhP

                        So much is familiar, and so much is different! And it helps put into perspective the length of development, HK took 4 years after its kickstarter, Silksong has taken 5+ since its announcement. Team Cherry is just very patient and deliberate.

                        [–]omegashadow [score hidden]  (0 children)

                        Part of the golden era of fully Kickstarter games with Hyper Light Drifter, Shovel Knight, etc.

                        [–]Homeschooled316 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                        To make good on it, Silksong is also going to be given to Hollow Knight backers for free. But most people would be shocked how few backers there were (just over 2000) for how popular the game is now.

                        [–]ThemesOfMurderBears [score hidden]  (0 children)

                        If they didn't announce it people would likely (and rightfully) get annoyed they didn't meet a stretch goal despite it being funded.

                        To see how this goes, look no further than author Patrick Rothfuss. He put in a stretch goal for a charity that he would read a previously unreleased chapter from his <supposedly> upcoming book. He never did. Now he "feels bad."

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                          [–]Kayjin23 58 points59 points  (3 children)

                          As a big fan of Hollow Knight I am pretty worried Team Cherry has succumbed to feature creep with Silksong after the enormous success of the first game. At this point the longer it takes the more I am concerned they ran into significant issues with development.

                          [–]-Googlrr [score hidden]  (0 children)

                          Weird thing is the longer it takes the less excited I am about it. It never strikes me as good news when something is this far behind schedule. Nervous that we're going to see an overambitious flop like so many sequels before it. Hoping for the best but I can't say I'm really all that hyped anymore. I'll play it when it comes out

                          [–]Albuwhatwhat [score hidden]  (0 children)

                          This is my main worry. Well put. They clearly didn’t mean for it to take this long to make so they must have run into issues that made them back track, or rethink things, etc. I don’t think it’s simply “we’re making the best game we can and it is taking longer”.

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                            [–]Ode1st 17 points18 points  (0 children)

                            I feel there’s a nice middle ground where they could give occasional updates a little more frequently than they’ve been.

                            [–]Pyrobot110 35 points36 points  (6 children)

                            Eh, I’m pretty frustrated ngl. I love hollow knight. 112%, all achievements, all radiant bosses, etc. but it’s just getting tiring. It’s less the wait - if they’re legitimately using it to make silksong better, great - but the absolutely abysmal communication is so disheartening. Literally a ‘hey we’re still alive and working on this game’ every 2 or 3 months would be awesome lol, or engaging with the community sometimes or really anything.

                            [–]victoryforZIM 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                            Seriously, even the smallest updates from team cherry every few months would be amazing. It's not like the game is a big secret, I don't know why they're choosing to be so mysterious about it.

                            [–]Pyrobot110 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                            Yeah. I get why they don’t want to tease specific things they’re adding bc frankly I think waiting to see will be a lot more interesting and fun but it’s not as though that’s the only way they can say things lol

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                              [–]Falsus 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                              Well they couldn't not announce it either because the second game was originally going to be a second playable character from the backer stretch goals.

                              [–]Significant_Pea_9726 27 points28 points  (2 children)

                              I wouldn’t say I’m “upset” but the fact that the first game took 4 years to make and its sequel, which is not fundamentally different from the original and for which Team Cherry has had considerable more resources on hand for its development, has taken over 6 years to make, does not inspire confidence. 

                              [–]Panda_hat 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                              As a Hollow Knight fan at this point I just want to see proof of life and that a game even exists. I don't care how long it takes but right now it feels like it is never coming out.

                              [–]KBtoker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                              People say that, but they literally had a trailer with new details less than 2 years ago, and less than a year ago a dev confirmed they were missing their launch window goal but are continuing development. Obviously, people are used to more communicative dev teams but it’s not like there’s zero evidence of it’s existence

                              [–]avelineaurora 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                              I don't think any fans of Hollow Knight are upset that they're taking their time to make sure it's as good as possible.

                              No, no, I definitely think a ton of fans are rightfully pretty irritated by now, lmao. Especially with the total lack of transparency for five years.

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                                [–]bnuuug 48 points49 points  (5 children)

                                https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1536035818275487746?t=bgjCUnMJRRF10_R5nuH7cg&s=19

                                [–]darkbladetrey 30 points31 points  (0 children)

                                Ouch lol. Microsoft really shouldn’t have said that. So many games missed that window

                                [–]NightDhampir 18 points19 points  (0 children)

                                Aged like milk

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                                  [–]Cryoto 86 points87 points  (8 children)

                                  Starting to think this long development time isn't a good sign. There's "taking your time" for quality reasons, and then there's feeding tiny breadcrumbs of a game over years with little to no indication of a clear release or if it's finished. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if these Hollow Knight clones come out first. I guess they can't help with how early they announced this as it was meant to be a DLC originally... but I can't imagine the shift from that to a sequel would have skewed development that much?

                                  [–]IMAPURPLEHIPPO 22 points23 points  (5 children)

                                  Exactly, there is taking your time and then there is pulling a Kingdom Hearts 3. Never go full Kingdom Hearts 3.

                                  [–]darkslayersparda [score hidden]  (1 child)

                                  im a bit of a kingdom hearts 3 defender, as a game its pretty nice.

                                  as a 15 year sequel that shooves 80% of the plot into the last 20% of the game.... well...

                                  [–]AnimaLepton [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                  In 6 months, this will have taken longer to come out from announcement to release than Kingdom Hearts 3.

                                  [–]Responsible-Sky-9355 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                                  That felt like more of a case of dragging it out to sell spin-offs. Now they can't really do much with the main story because it's pretty much in limbo until 4 is released, but between 2 and 3 there was a major spin-off ~every two years.

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                                    [–]legend8522 [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                    I can't think of a single game that was stuck in dev hell that didn't eventually release with glaring issues

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                                      [–]MajestiTesticles 310 points311 points  (52 children)

                                      Fellas, Team Cherry aren't gonna become your besties by defending them from people who want them to not be radio silent for 5 years.

                                      [–]Ode1st 98 points99 points  (16 children)

                                      That’s really my only issue so far. I would just like the devs to communicate more frequently, give us some little progress updates occasionally, etc.

                                      [–]ShesJustAGlitch 101 points102 points  (2 children)

                                      It’s so funny to me they have a marketing guy on staff because …whatcha up to bud

                                      [–]PaperJamDipper7 14 points15 points  (0 children)

                                      Lmao we were like keep your secret 😏….wait not literally

                                      [–]YouAllSuckBall5 [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                      Easiest job on planet earth. The guy must just chill at his computer doing nothing all day for years....

                                      [–]AnonBB21 16 points17 points  (2 children)

                                      Crab Champions is made by ONE person and he frequently communicates updates, progress, etc. No excuse to just be silent unless you're preparing for a disaster article where you say the game is no longer being made.

                                      [–]WhizBangNeato [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                      You dont understand. Every time they take 10 minutes to write an update the game is setback another year.

                                      [–]Ode1st 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                      I’m not even looking for something like how Unknown Worlds had their Subnautica Trello open to the public. Just looking for a standard level of communication that most studios provide. The occasional blog update, a feature video here and there, something.

                                      [–]ThemesOfMurderBears [score hidden]  (1 child)

                                      There are always going to be huge disagreements about how to handle things like this. George R.R. Martin rarely talks about the next book in ASOIAF, because talking about it previously caused nothing but drama -- people get mad that it didn't come out when he said it would (not unreasonable -- it's been almost 13 years, and at this point I don't think most fans even expect the series to be finished).

                                      With communicating in situations like this, I suspect it is "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

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                                        [–]oryes 38 points39 points  (0 children)

                                        Wrong it's me Team Cherry. Everyone who says only nice stuff about us will get to play this game very early and everyone who says mean stuff about our delays will not be allowed to play under any circumstance.

                                        [–]ngwoo 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                        I think even the most ardent Hollow Knight fan will acknowledge that the communication around Silksong has been a legendary trainwreck

                                        [–]avelineaurora 30 points31 points  (4 children)

                                        Lmao, right? The amount of times I've been called "entitled" just because some insight into the process over the past half decade would go a long way to keeping people less frustrated.

                                        [–]JayZsAdoptedSon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                        I feel like they should not have said they were wrapping up in 2019 and that it would be out by summer 2023 during Xbox’s show If it’s looking like late 2024 is the earliest we can expect.

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                                          [–]ArchLector_Zoller 55 points56 points  (5 children)

                                          Noooooooo, now I’m reminded of Silksong. You know how slow time goes by when you know you’re waiting?

                                          [–]JayZsAdoptedSon 19 points20 points  (5 children)

                                          Something HAS to be going on internally. At least with Prime 4, we know it was rebooted under Retro and a 5 ish year cycle is common for AAA games (Tho if it misses this year, then there is a problem)

                                          [–]haidere36 [score hidden]  (2 children)

                                          At least Silksong has shown off gameplay footage so we know it's real. I've been waiting 7 years for Prime 4 and we still have nothing. Yea it was restarted but it's been 5 years since the restart and still nothing.

                                          [–]Tschmelz [score hidden]  (1 child)

                                          Yeah tbh I'm more worried about Prime 4. We haven't heard shit about it since the switch to Retro, unless I missed something.

                                          [–]samfizz [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                          They gotta be waiting for Switch 2 to show anything at this point. They're definitely working on it because we're still seeing job listings for it

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                                            [–]azdak 33 points34 points  (3 children)

                                            the problem now is that reception is going to be heavily skewed by the release schedule. if this game is just "good" they're going to get annihilated. although i suppose it doesn't really matter since they'll be able to retire on the presales alone

                                            [–]radclaw1 24 points25 points  (0 children)

                                            Ehhhhh. Reception isn't skewed by the wait. It's skewed by the fact that the first game is basically the best metroidvania ever made for 15 bucks. That's a hard act to follow.

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                                              [–]Mexicancandi 97 points98 points  (29 children)

                                              I really don’t care when they release it but they’re a company. All this “team cherry is releasing quality ” stuff doesn’t make it right to announce things before you even make them. I’ve worked in companies as a salesman and worker and what team cherry did was a pretty stupid thing. Anyone defending them too much (they do make quality products) is forgetting that they’re literally a corporation

                                              Edit: if I had told some customer that the company could do “x” for “y” in “x” amount of time and failed to deliver id be in serious trouble.

                                              [–]AwesomeManatee 18 points19 points  (2 children)

                                              This is a bit of an unusual case since Silksong started out as a Kickstarter stretch goal for Hollow Knight DLC. If they hadn't announced it when they did then backers would probably be concerned that they wouldn't be getting the content they already paid for and that would have probably damaged Team Cherry's reputation.

                                              [–]Gyshall669 25 points26 points  (8 children)

                                              Same, at this point Im just assuming it’s not coming out.

                                              [–]TheVibratingPants 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                              I’m just more curious like why would it take so long? Not in an accusatory way or anything, but it’s just strange to me how they had a working demo years ago and have been almost dead quiet since.

                                              Is the game considerably larger in scope or like did they have to switch engines midway through development or did they run into some design dead-ends? Because it seems like the game is relatively similar or at least was using a similar foundation to its predecessor. At this point, I just want to know what’s going on behind the scenes.

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                                                  [–]AsperaAstra 170 points171 points  (136 children)

                                                  Hollow Knight was a wonderful, unique experience. Them taking the time to make sure Silksong holds up, doesn't strike me as a negative.

                                                  [–]Odd_Radio9225 292 points293 points  (47 children)

                                                  Unless there is serious mismanagement going on behind the scenes. Taking all the time in the world isn't always necessarily a good sign.

                                                  [–]GaiusQuintus 169 points170 points  (25 children)

                                                  Team Cherry only finally released Hollow Knight because money was running out. They pushed it back from an original release date of June 2015, to later in 2015, to eventually 2016. Had to cut a massive area they created because the game kept expanding past their original expectations.

                                                  Now they've likely got a war chest of cash thanks to Hollow Knight's incredible success, and no external deadlines from a publisher.

                                                  Knowing where and when to wrap any type of project is an important skill to have, and it's clearly one of Team Cherry's weaknesses.

                                                  [–]Cephalopod_Joe 41 points42 points  (3 children)

                                                  That actually explains a lot. I think it's probably just that they're not great at scoping their projects and unlike last time they have enough funding to feel comfortable pursuing that massive scope. Hollow Knight was already a ginormous game and to think that there was a big chunk missing is pretty crazy. I know silksong was originally just meant to be dlc as well before being expanded into a full game, so that tracks.

                                                  [–]GaiusQuintus 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                  Yeah great point, I completely forgot Silksong was going to be DLC first, not even it's own standalone game.

                                                  [–]AnonBB21 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                  They have no one to hold them accountable effectively. Most big gaming companies are at the whims of higher ups.

                                                  Good or not, in this case it's probably bad that they cant be trusted to sufficiently manage and communicate themselves. Because nothing will stop them from just delaying things.

                                                  [–]Bamith20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                  In this case they probably wanted all 3 of those expansions in the game to begin with I guess, they have time and money so the next game will have all expansion type ideas in from the start maybe.

                                                  [–]Kayjin23 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                                                  Exactly my fear. They probably succumbed to feature creep since they don't have to worry about running out of money any time soon.

                                                  [–]ngwoo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                  Just as long as they don't start selling $500 bug JPGs

                                                  [–]lolwatokay 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                  Knowing where and when to wrap any type of project is an important skill to have, and it's clearly one of Team Cherry's weaknesses.

                                                  Agreed, it's the #1 issue with so many Kickstarter games. Scoping and sticking to that scope is a tough skill that even the best designers struggle with, but an important one if you ever want to reach the finish line.

                                                  [–]kikimaru024 41 points42 points  (7 children)

                                                  Putting all of your money into 1 release, then delaying it year after year, is only going to drive up your costs and risk of business failure. 

                                                  [–]GaleTheThird 14 points15 points  (1 child)

                                                  It's a 3 person team who made tens of millions of their first game. Going out of business isn't really a huge risk I don't think

                                                  [–]kikimaru024 [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                                  Ah, fair enough.  I thought they would've expanded the team or outsourced parts with that success.

                                                  [–]ReverESP 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                  A 2 people team created one of the most successful Metroidvanias of the last 15 years. They are set for life, money isnt a problem.

                                                  [–]hyrule5 18 points19 points  (2 children)

                                                  Only if it's not a quality title like Hollow Knight that continues to sell for years on strength of word of mouth

                                                  [–]FluffyWuffyVolibear 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                  The game is gonna sell gangbusters regardless and I highly doubt itll be worse then just okay, which for many will be enough. I mean I'd be happy with hollowknight x2.

                                                  [–]lghtdev 13 points14 points  (4 children)

                                                  I can only imagine how massive this game is going to be, it seems they will keep adding things nonstop.

                                                  [–]secret759 57 points58 points  (3 children)

                                                  one man's massive epic experience is anothers bloated mess.

                                                  [–]Prince_Uncharming 23 points24 points  (2 children)

                                                  I’m glad Hollow Knight ran out of funding and had to release tbh. Any bigger and it would’ve overstayed its welcome. Bigger is not always better.

                                                  [–]pon_3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                  The game was already really long. I honestly hope Silksong isn’t that much longer.

                                                  [–]StantasticTypo [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                                  Especially with Metroidvanias. They don't scale all that well imo. 10-15h is kind of the sweet spot, and anything more than 25-30 definitely gets a little tiring. Not always, of course, but it's tough to keep things fresh, and keep feeding the player new and interesting upgrades/powers over that time.

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                                                    [–]FluffyWuffyVolibear 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                    They probably feel a fuck ton of pressure to release an incredible game, when this game drops it'll like be the biggest game to drop that year, that's scary yo, all eyes are gonna be on them.

                                                    Hollow knight was good for a lot of reasons that like, aren't easily replicated. It could take a writer years to create a world that interesting, not to mention the straight lightning you need to capture in a bottle to create combat that is not only as good as hollow knight but better, which is obviously their goal.

                                                    But yeah a game taking this long probably means the journey hasn't been easy or straight forward.

                                                    [–]AsperaAstra 23 points24 points  (16 children)

                                                    Team Cherry is like, three people. Not several dozen. I would be extremely impressed if they could manage to put out something on the level of HK without cutting corners in a short time frame. I'm comfortable waiting for art. 

                                                    [–]GaleTheThird 89 points90 points  (7 children)

                                                    in a short time frame

                                                    I struggle to call 5 years a "short time frame", even for a small team. HK was in development for what, 4 years total with the same team?

                                                    [–]BeholdingBestWaifu 9 points10 points  (0 children)

                                                    Agreed. Given that they already have the framework of the first game to improve upon, five years is more than enough for a small team to make a second game.

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                                                      [–]Hendeith 25 points26 points  (4 children)

                                                      Team Cherry is like, three people.

                                                      More than 30 people worked on original HK, more than 15 if you exclude testers. I don't think 3 people are working on Silksong.

                                                      [–]Flint_Vorselon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

                                                      those 30 people include stuff like voice actors I’m pretty sure.

                                                      Who likely worked a total of 1 day each (more likely a couple hours).

                                                      [–]Hendeith [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                                      Why speculate when you can actually check? I didn't count voice actors. To be fair, out of 36 people with exact roles we have 17 testers, 2 interns, 3 responsible for music and vocals, 1 being both localization and testing lead, 1 mentioned translator (for french version).

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                                                          [–]Pioneer83 22 points23 points  (10 children)

                                                          I’m not so sure. Does a game like this warrant more than 5 years production time? We are talking the same amount of time it took to make God Of War Ragnarock!

                                                          [–]Jaqzz 8 points9 points  (8 children)

                                                          Counterpoint: Ragnarok was developed by Santa Monica Studio, which has 400 employees and a parent company they can rely on for support.

                                                          Team Cherry is three people.

                                                          [–]JayZsAdoptedSon 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                                                          Okay… Why is it still 3 people?

                                                          Like that is cool but a weird self-imposed limitation. Especially since they revealed the game was “wrapping up” in 2019 and was in the 2022 Xbox E3 as a game releasing in 12 months.

                                                          2 showings and 2 “its almost there”s with nothing to really show for it

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                                                              [–]JFZephyr 8 points9 points  (1 child)

                                                              At this point it's just at the point where it's been so silent that it's more concerning. It implies development hell, maybe worse. It's a long time for DLC.

                                                              [–]JubalTheLion 19 points20 points  (0 children)

                                                              It's not DLC, but a completely new game.

                                                              [–]theangriestbird 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                              If the game is good, everyone will forget about the wait between releases.

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                                                                [–]Effective-Half9103 14 points15 points  (2 children)

                                                                Hope this game doesn’t end up like Spelunky 2 and Rogue Legacy 2 - a forgotten , samey sequel to an indie hit

                                                                [–]AttitudeFit5517 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                Eh rogue legacy 2 was sold and marketed as RL1 but remade vs Spelunky 2 being quite different.

                                                                S2 was forgotten because it's just not as good as s1, music was a downgrade, difficulty was way harder, less casual etc etc. still a solid 6-7/10 but nowhere near the cult classic s1 and Spelunky classic are

                                                                [–]dgj130 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                Spelunky 2 wasn't samey as such, it was just obnoxiously difficult.

                                                                [–]OneManFreakShow 252 points253 points  (189 children)

                                                                I wish people would leave Team Cherry alone about this damn game. As far as I know it’s a studio of three people. Let them have a healthy work-life balance and finish the game at their own pace - that will always result in a better project. It’s not like we’re ever starving for more Metroidvanias.

                                                                [–]zach0011 123 points124 points  (1 child)

                                                                Are they being harassed? Or are we just not allowed to discuss this based on your opinion?

                                                                [–]cy_frame 73 points74 points  (0 children)

                                                                The most innocent questions are being framed as harassment...

                                                                "Why release a playable demo for a game that is so far from release?"

                                                                Redditors are considering that a death threat. It's ridiculous.

                                                                [–]Whitewind617 83 points84 points  (10 children)

                                                                I mean that's fine that they are taking a long time. But they announced it 5 years ago with a full gameplay trailer, the underlying engine was finished as part of their last game (it obviously needs changes for the new character but still,) followed by a new gameplay trailer a year and a half ago, after which it's been teased to be right around the corner constantly since.

                                                                90% of people aren't harassing them over this. I feel like we're within our rights to audibly wonder to ourselves "hey uh, where is this thing? Why is it taking so long?"

                                                                [–]UsernameAvaylable 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                                                                Yeah, its not like they did an Elder Scrolls 6 like "here is a logo" announcement. They had gameplay..

                                                                [–]oryes 54 points55 points  (8 children)

                                                                Yeah there's this weird sensitivity on Reddit where people are so quick to jump to the defense of the helpless game studios. If Team Cherry is a team of 3 people then that means they are all making absolute bank. I don't feel bad for them if they are feeling a bit of pressure to deliver on their highly anticipated sequel. Especially given I can absolutely guarantee you that the announcement they made 5 years ago made it possible for them to secure a shitload of extra funding.

                                                                Of course any type of harassment is never warranted. But I really don't see any harm in just asking questions or wanting updates.

                                                                [–]finderfolk 15 points16 points  (2 children)

                                                                Exactly, they have deliberately stayed small, presumably for creative control but also because they likely all have equity and want to minimise costs. They will make an absolute killing; I think they can survive some grumpiness from fans (which isn't to endorse any sort of harassment - but some impatience is understandable imho).

                                                                Unless their "About" page is out of date or non-exhaustive then it almost reads like they only have one dedicated coder. That seems sort of insane to me but maybe the bottleneck on a project like this is actually in the art and world design.

                                                                [–]oryes 11 points12 points  (1 child)

                                                                Good point. They could easily hire more people but they are not doing so because they know they will make literal tens of millions from this game (as they probably already did from the first Hollow Knight).

                                                                I'm not saying I blame them at all. I probably would do the same. I'm just saying that a little pressure isn't the end of the world like people on here treat it as.

                                                                [–]TrueKNite 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                                                                I mean they also dont have to give shares/royalties. The vast majority of freelancers already dont get that

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                                                                  [–]redgoesfaster 418 points419 points  (85 children)

                                                                  It's definitely a good thing for developers to be able to take their time with their craft and create a labour of love not crunch.

                                                                  But that needs to be balanced against announcing products half a decade in advance with no release date in sight.

                                                                  [–]RareBk 26 points27 points  (1 child)

                                                                  Yeah, like, even though they're a tiny dev team, it's hard to see something like this, which started as DLC for a completed game, and not gesture vaguely at both Hades and Hades 2 coming out in the time frame that Silksong has been announced.

                                                                  Obviously Supergiant has something like 20 more employees, but it's still a brutal comparison

                                                                  [–]oryes 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                                                                  Yeah I mean at the end of the day they're selling a product and making a shitload of money doing it. If you announce a new product that you know is being highly anticipated, then you have to understand you are building expectations and there will be some pressure to deliver on those expectations.

                                                                  I'm not saying anyone needs to get emotional over this. I'm just saying that it is something you can expect to happen when you run a business.

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                                                                    [–]mnl_cntn 43 points44 points  (4 children)

                                                                    Why show it off when it was so far away?

                                                                    [–]Chode-Talker 37 points38 points  (1 child)

                                                                    I don't know why this long into the development time people are starting to play the "be patient" card. Obviously nobody should be hounding Team Cherry themselves, but we are around the tipping point where getting antsy about a release feels understandable. A lot of people are very passionate about Hollow Knight, myself included, so they have been eagerly anticipating Silksong for a very long time. Once that Xbox showcase explicitly said it would be out before June 2023, the damage was done - it was no longer just being patient for a game that was being worked on with no end in sight, we were told "you only have to wait a year at most". Expectations were set accordingly. You and the other people in this thread must understand on some level that quiet patience can have its limits when you've been really looking forward to something.

                                                                    Again, I am strictly against anybody complaining to TC in any direct fashion. But amongst ourselves? I think being a little fed up with the wait is entirely warranted. Doesn't mean we want it released unfinished either, but we can be frustrated.

                                                                    [–]MadonnasFishTaco 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                                                                    i think also given where the industry is at that concern is warranted. projects are getting cancelled left and right and up and down.

                                                                    [–]Ok-Summer-2159 9 points10 points  (1 child)

                                                                    Let them have a healthy work-life balance and finish the game at their own pace

                                                                    Gabe Newell when asked about HL3 20 years ago

                                                                    [–]benoxxxx 18 points19 points  (1 child)

                                                                    I'm totally fine with them taking all the time they need. It has serious potential to be my favourite metroidvania ever, Hollow Knight sure was, and I'm in no serious rush to play it.

                                                                    What I don't appreciate is the total lack of any updates at all. All they need to do is say 'we're still working on it - aiming to release this year/next year, but that's still subject to change'.

                                                                    As it is, with the total radio silence, there's plausible suspiction that the game has been shadow-cancelled. And if it has been, they should just say so, so that the people excited can move on.

                                                                    [–]penguindude24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Realistically I just think the game is suffering a constant creep upward in scope. My speculation is that they've made it bigger than intended.

                                                                    [–]thiago504 84 points85 points  (1 child)

                                                                    It's been half a decade mate, I think they've had plenty of a work-life balance to at least announce if it's coming in this decade

                                                                    [–]oryes 16 points17 points  (0 children)

                                                                    Also if they're overly concerned about work-life balance maybe they should take some of the tens of millions of dollars they made off Hollow Knight and expand their tiny development team.

                                                                    [–]maevtr2 12 points13 points  (0 children)

                                                                    No one twisted their arm and told them they had to release a trailer 5 years before release. This isn't an issue of work life balance, it's feature creep. It's very clear they keep making the game bigger instead of just finishing it.

                                                                    [–]Ode1st 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                    I think there’s a nice middle ground where the devs can release some news or progress updates occasionally.

                                                                    [–]NamesTheGame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                                                                    I got to know the devs of Cuphead, and recall the same complaining being levied at them. One of the things they told me that I hadn't realized is that because they are such a small, tightly knit team if one person is sick, or goes on vacation, or whatever, it has a large, direct setback to their goals and deadlines because each person contributes so much.

                                                                    I would bet they have the same thing here, and without any financial concerns they can afford to allow people to live their lives properly.

                                                                    [–]Aplinex 32 points33 points  (8 children)

                                                                    How long did it take you to write this comment? That’s all we’re asking of team cherry, nothing more

                                                                    [–]Fob0bqAd34 43 points44 points  (7 children)

                                                                    https://twitter.com/griffinmatta/status/1656106351184199680

                                                                    Hey gang, just a quick update about Silksong.

                                                                    We had planned to release in the 1st half of 2023, but development is still continuing. We're excited by how the game is shaping up, and it's gotten quite big, so we want to take the time to make the game as good as we can.

                                                                    Expect more details from us once we get closer to release.

                                                                    This was less than a year ago.

                                                                    [–]LittleBumbo 48 points49 points  (6 children)

                                                                    In all fairness, that's a pretty poor update in retrospect. It reads like "we missed our Q1-Q2 2023 target, but we're getting there" and it would be nice to know if they think theyre missing the target by like, a month? Or a year? At this rate it would just be nice to know if they think a 2024 date is feasible.

                                                                    Im not invested in Silksong either way, but if i was id probably be pretty antsy for some more detail than that update from May 2023

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                                                                      [–]Nerf_Now 29 points30 points  (14 children)

                                                                      As a pure thought exercise, I like to think how this game is taking 5 years.

                                                                      To start, part of the game, or at least the concept, is borrowed from Hollow Knight so it's not like they are creating it from scratch.

                                                                      Second, it's not like the game is a massive open world with multiplayer and cinematics. All games are complicated but this is not World of Warcraft 2.

                                                                      So... why? I have my personal theory they just restarted the game project at some point for some reason, be it an engine change or some new gameplay paradigm.

                                                                      [–]shapookya 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                                                                      It has the potential to be the biggest metroidvania game ever created. Or the devs crumbled underneath the pressure and mess it up. It’s all possible.

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                                                                        [–]DL_Omega [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                                                        Dude the mental whiplash in this thread is insane. Everyone is cherry picking and strawmaning the complete opposite sides of the spectrum. You have the "zero patience literally need an update right now" stereotype and then the far right of that the "let them cook" crowd. Like there absolutely is a middle ground that Team Cherry can be on that is not so radio silent. I don't get why that seems to be so hard for some people in here to admit and they just keep calling people entitled.

                                                                        [–]SillyMattFace 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                                                                        Hollow Knight is an honest to goodness work of art, so I’m fine with them taking the time they need to make Silksong a worthy sequel.

                                                                        Still, half a decade with very little news is concerning. I know Team Cherry is a small team and they promised a lot of new features for this, so I think they have likely been too ambitious and are scrambling to live up to it.

                                                                        Still, I’ll definitely buy it as soon as it does appear.

                                                                        [–]Elegance- 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                                                                        I'm getting flashbacks to last year where people were angry about the radio silence for Tears of the Kingdom, only for it to release to extraordinary success later.  No updates could be good or bad, don't assume it's guaranteed to be one or the other.  The only people I think who have their frustrations justified are the Kickstarter backers.

                                                                        [–]Kezia89 [score hidden]  (0 children)

                                                                        As someone who grew up with the GBA Castlevanias and Metroids, HK has always seemed mid to me by comparison. I just can’t get into it.

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