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Evidence of Novavax benefits? (self.Novavax_vaccine_talk)

submitted by Unique-Public-8594

Hi. I’m new here. Searched this sub and read previous posts.

I get that Novavax may be appealing to those who are uncomfortable with mrna vaccines. I’m not one of those. I am fully vaccinated. Got my Novavax 2 days ago. Prior to that I got a mostly Pfizer, plus one Moderna (since the evidence seems to show that some mixture is best).

I chose Novavax this time due to claims that it is:

  • somewhat sterilizing (preventive)

  • broad (protection against future variants)

  • longer lasting

  • fewer symptoms/side-effects

Does anyone have sources to back up these 4 claims?

If true, this is what we’ve been waiting for but my pharmacist said “we have it but no one has asked for it, you’re the first.” Who wouldn’t go for a longer lasting, broad spectrum, sterilizing vaccine with fewer side-effects?

(In contrast to being bedridden for 24-48 hours for my mrna vaccines, had zero symptoms with Novavax.)

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[–]sunqueen73 18 points19 points  (12 children)

This is old from right after the trial results. Showed 90% efficacy against severe disease. This could have been a game changer https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19

Yale compares them all. Nova is buried at the bottom. And look... updated to 100% efficacy against severe disease now. https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

Not much else out there on it. Smh

[–]zarcos 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Quote from the top of the NIH link. All Novavax trials so far have had 100% efficacy against severe disease.

NVX-CoV2373 demonstrated 90.4% efficacy in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 disease. The candidate showed 100% protection against moderate and severe disease.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 7 points8 points  (8 children)

Thanks for the NIH and Yale links!

 100% = Fantastic.

How do they define “severe”?  Would that include Long Covid?  P silly but I sent an email to the company.  

 So, TIL we’ve had a sterilizing vaccine all along but because the company chose not to partner, they didn’t manage to capture the US market?

[–]shempmalone 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Long Covid incidence is not related to severity of acute infection, i.e. you can get LC from an asymptomatic infection pretty much as likely from being hospitalized. However, severity and duration of LC symptoms are somewhat worse with more severe acute infections.

[–]sunqueen73 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're welcome.

So, TIL we’ve had a sterilizing vaccine all along but because the company chose not to partner, they didn’t manage to capture the US market?

Probably. It was also just approved in the US last year. They had more time to develop and conduct trials. Of course, not partnering meant the company didn't have a marketing juggernaut behind them with practically unlimited funds.

That would include very well paid lobbyists on the congress floor to ensure the influence extended to the entire planet to get their product in arms---to the point of drowning out all competition.

[–]A313-Isoke 3 points4 points  (5 children)

It's not sterilizing. Sterilizing vaccines of any kind are very rare. I think you're trying to find out if Novavax has breakthrough infections. It does. You still have to employ other mitigation strategies with it.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But I see a NIH publication from June 14, 2021 entitled "U.S. clinical trial results show Novavax vaccine is safe and prevents COVID-19". Badly worded title then.

[–]A313-Isoke 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's too old to be useful at this point. COVID has changed significantly since then.

Novavax is safe (unlike J&J which was pulled and the Astra-Zeneca which was also pulled) and initially, it seemed like it was preventing breakthrough infections better than Pfizer and Moderna's very brief window which is one of the reasons there's more hope around Novavax.

I think you're looking for sterilizing immunity over neutralizing. There's research that sterilizing immunity is a myth, a biological myth even.

There's breakthrough infections across all vaccines. No one knows how many doses, the dosage, and timing to prevent infection with what we have, research-wise.

What we do see is a difference in severity and incidence in Long COVID in vaxxed groups vs unvaxxed groups. Long COVID is STILL possible in vaxxed groups. Severe disease, hospitalization, and death is still possible in vaxxed groups. It's a matter of probability, odds are better if you're vaxxed to avoid the worse outcomes. That's the difference.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/sterilizing-immunity-myth-covid-19-vaccines/620023/

https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/covid-19-coronavirus-sars-cov-2/vaccines

[–]immediatelymaybe 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this! Gotta love that concluding line, "Note: None of the COVID vaccines change—or interact with—a recipient’s DNA." 😂

[–]Bobbin_thimble1994 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In the Yale article, it was mentioned that protection from both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines would “wane over time.” These comments were not made about Novavax.

[–]frostandtheboughs 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Anecdotally:

My first two shots were Pfizer. After the second shot I spent 2 days wracked with alternating fever/chills. All my subsequent shots have been Novavax with nearly no side effects. Just some fatigue/brain fog for 24 hrs.

My partner brought home covid and we slept next to each other until he tested positive one morning. We were together, unmasked, for ~3 days while he was showing symptoms. I did not get sick, despite it being about 10 months after my last Novavax shot. I used rapid tests every day for 5 days after exposure.

I think in total I've had two pfizer shots and 3 novavax shots. I still mask in public and I still haven't got covid.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Happy to hear you did not get covid even though you had slept next to a covid positive person.  (I slept in an RV unmasked with someone who tested positive the next morning, so we have similar experiences.)

It’s a relief to come to this sub, it’s one of the few places where people are open to the topic still. 

Do you know of any studies I can read up on about Novavax being at least somewhat broad-spectrum or somewhat sterilizing (or are there no studies completed yet)?  I’ve been looking but without much luck. 

I haven’t yet had covid to my knowledge (but, makes sense, I am more covid-cautious than most).

[–]OneEast8577 12 points13 points  (8 children)

I had Novavax in January after previously having had AstraZeneca, and three MRNa. I had flu like symptoms after all the other vaccines but absolutely no side effects from Novavax. About 4 weeks after Novavax, ( imo it should have been at peak protection but I know the vaccines do not necessarily prevent infection) I caught Covid. It was less than 11 months after a previous infection. I was disheartened that less than a year after a prior infection AND a recent vaccination, that I caught Covid so easily. I did have a very mild infection though. A few days of head cold symptoms. I have definitely had worse colds! Tested negative by day 9 and had a couple of weeks of lightheadedness / dizziness. It’s been 6 weeks since I tested positive and I feel 100%. So not sure if the Novavax helped lessen the severity of the illness or it would have been mild regardless.

[–]jfj2020 2 points3 points  (6 children)

I got Covid for the first time about a month and a half after my Novavax XBB shot (previously had 3 Pfizer and 1 Moderna). I loved the less side effects after my Novavax booster, but debating going back to mRNA for my booster this year since I never caught Covid after those

[–]OneEast8577 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It was probably just coincidence that you caught Covid 6 weeks after your Novavax vaccine. Were your symptoms mild? I’m not sure that I have given up on Novavax but my partner and I had the same exposure ( to a positive but asymptomatic acquaintance). He hasn’t been vaccinated for two years! And I was the one to catch Covid from our initial exposure. He did eventually get it from me, it was mild for him as well but he has had lingering symptoms where as mine have all resolved. I really don’t know what to think. I still have more concerns about the Mrna vaccines…

[–]jfj2020 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It wasn’t fun, fatigue, low-grade fever, bad sore throat and cough. Ended up taking Paxlovid because my doctor offered it, thankfully didn’t rebound. That’s fair, thankfully I haven’t noticed any symptoms from the mRNA vaccines lasting longer than a day or two

[–]John-Doe-Jane 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You need at least 2 Novavax, and 3 is preferable since you are using a different platform from mRNA. You are basically starting over again with Novavax, the prior mRNA doesn't contribute much.

Stay with Novavax and get the 3 doses.

[–]jfj2020 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Dang I wish the pharmacist told me! I’ll look into getting two more, sad I have to pay out-of-pocket (I have Kaiser Permanente HMO and they don’t offer Novavax). I think it was $130 or so out-of-pocket at Costco

[–]John-Doe-Jane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pharmacists are unaware of this, it's not stated by the CDC. It was u/Don_Ford who recommended this and it makes sense because Novavax is a different vaccine platform.

Great that you consider getting the 2 more Novavax. The timing was recommended to be 2 initial Novavax 8 weeks apart. Then the 3rd at 6 months after the 2nd dose.

You can get additional Novavax by self-attesting as immunocompromised, otherwise it may not be possible to get additional Novavax on the schedule.

I have heard that Kaiser in California does cover Novavax, but it varies. I think they either covered it or they reimbursed for Novavax. I know Kaiser had exclusive contract with Pfizer, it is corrupt. I suggest you talk to their customer service and demand that they reimburse you for Novavax. Maybe you can tell them your terrible side effects with mRNA and so were forced to stop taking mRNA, they may be more willing to help you.

[–]shartattak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

my (otherwise frighteningly healthy) spouse got covid 6 weeks after his novavax booster, after having had all Pfizer up to that point. he spent hours with a family member who didn’t have symptoms at the time, but tested positive about 12 hours later. I was fortunately traveling and he tested positive while I was on the way to the airport to come home, no doubt contributed to keeping me healthy. he stayed continuously positive for 16 days, but didn’t feel all that bad for most of it.

my one bout with covid was 8 weeks after a Moderna booster, but I take medication that could beat back my immune system a bit (I got paxlovid & was sick as a dog, but never like go-to-hospital kind of sick).

I’ve more or less accepted that the vaccines won’t prevent, only minimize severity in most cases.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad to hear you feel 100% again. :)

[–]Grumpy_Kanibal 9 points10 points  (2 children)

My husband, myself, and child had a full series of Pfizer & Moderna boosters. Once Novavax became available, we all switched to Novavax. We have had Novavax for the last 2 years (4 shots in total). The only side effect was a sore arm, and that was it. But we honestly didn't have major side effects with any of the mrna vaccines either. For what it's worth, we haven't had Covid either. People don't really know about Novavax, and in some countries, it is not easy to access.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Glad to hear you haven’t had covid. :)

[–]Grumpy_Kanibal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For now... we will at some point. Unless we move to a different planet (LOL).

[–]zarcos 9 points10 points  (7 children)

Here’s a Google doc I made with some summaries and excerpts with links about Novavax efficacy.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VElWV18YlXoSoToyyLN5WCyB_hyzPRSIWCgs0cgI3xg/edit

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thank you. Really appreciative of everyone’s help here. 

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I’m specifically interested in sterilization (prevention) and broad spectrum (protection against future variants) comparative data. 

[–]zarcos 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I have excerpts and references for those near the bottom of the doc: Evidence of Mucosal antibodies and at the very bottom the antigenic distance bit (broader cross neutralization)

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

(Looks up “mucosal”…)

[–]zarcos 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mucosal antibodies means you have antibodies in the mucous of your nose and throat and lungs (and intestines, etc). This means the antibodies can neutralize viruses before they infect you. The mRNA mostly show responses in antibodies in the blood, which help when you’ve been infected. Novavax does too, and that’s awesome! But it also shows mucosal antibodies which means you’ve got bouncers at the door to the club before SARS2 can even get in to cause trouble, and that means it’s more likely to be sterilizing, or prevent any infection. At least for the antigens that are matched to the vaccine.

[–]Don_Ford 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Nice list, not bad.

[–]zarcos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Hardly exhaustive, but I wanted it to be easy to scan for people who haven’t heard or read the research.

[–]wingsofgrey 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You should consider following up with a second Novavax shot in 8 weeks and then a third 6 months from there. Using it as a “booster” is less effective and is meant to be used as a three shot series. My only covid infection was 3 weeks after an mRNA shot in 2021 and so I opted for Novavax after that experience and have had 4 Novavax total and no covid since that one infection, however I use other mitigation more than most people around me.

[–]John-Doe-Jane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Those who've never had Novavax need to treat it as a new series with at least 2 doses and best to get the 3rd as well. This gives the best benefit of Novavax.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you.  I found this article that recommends this as well. 

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Just noticed the excellent pinned post. 

Apologies:

I should have looked for it and read that first. 

[–]mwallace0569 5 points6 points  (0 children)

there isn't strong evidence that its more broad, it might be. but i don't think its that much more broad, maybe a little bit. there isn't strong evidence that its more effective at preventing infection. it does seems to be longer lasting tho

its def cause less side effects based on the data and anecdotes

[–]Boopsi-41 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I have had one Moderna, and four Novavax vaccines, my entire household caught covid for the first time in January 2024. Everyone in my family besides myself are fully vaccinated with Moderna, I experienced the most symptoms and I was the only one to lose my smell and taste, I will be going back to Moderna for my next booster.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What schedule did you use (what were the dates of your Novavax vaccines)?

[–]Klexington47 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Thank you - the last line.

How nice to not have symptoms!

They did a good job pushing the mRNA

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

One friend asked me whether I thought I got a good immunity if there were no symptoms. Some consider the after effects a good indicator of a robust response, right?

[–]Klexington47 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow. Yes. It has better immunity according to virologists I've spoken with

[–]mwallace0569 2 points3 points  (0 children)

you can have no symptoms but higher antibodies than someone who had all the usual symptoms, so no, symptoms doesn't always indicate you got a good response.

[–]John-Doe-Jane 1 point2 points  (1 child)

That's not true. It's NOT an indication of robust response, but actually an overreaction of immune system to inflammatory effects. It's like hitting a nail with a sledghammer and causing unnecessary extra damage when a hammer is the right tool.

The assumption that strong reaction means good immune response is a fallacy propogated by those who try to justify that feeling crappy after vaccination is worth it to get good viral protection. This means those who continuously suffer from terrible mRNA side effects keep taking it because they think the sufferring is worth it to get good protection.
It frustrates me when I repeatedly read on social media that many people who've had 5x or more mRNA and had terrible side effects everytime yet keep taking it because they think the bad side effects are worth it for Covid protection, and they still get Covid. This is garbage. Instead they should try Novavax, which usually leads to no side effects and pick the one they like.

I've had many vaccinations in my life > 10 vaccines. Never had a reaction. Then my forced mRNA gave me terrible fever, headache, chest pains for 7 days. This was not normal and I knew it. I didn't accept that "this means I'm getting a good immune respone", it means the vaccine is doing things it shouldn't and is not good. I was never going to take mRNA again and swithced to Novavax when it became available.

I've had 3x Novavax since and no side effects, just like a proper vaccine should be, and same as my prior 10 vaccines in my life. mRNA is a Frankenstein platform for vaccines and people, especially elderly (who don't know better), have been duped by the government and propaganda saying that strong reactions are perfectly normal... THEY ARE NOT NORMAL and means one should at least try something different if not stopping mRNA completely.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

 That's not true. It's NOT an indication of robust response, but actually an overreaction of immune system to inflammatory effects. 

Thank you. 

[–]John-Doe-Jane 1 point2 points  (2 children)

You made the right decision. Everyone should try Novavax at least once, instead of blindly taking mRNA. You yourself experienced no side effects with Novavax. That alone makes Novavax preferable to mRNA which left you and most people bedridden for days. All data shows Novavax is better in everything (the oublished evidence is overwhelming), there is no reason anyone should take mRNA, it provides no benefit except to the pockets of Pfizer and the agenda of pushing mRNA for some reason.

If you are interested in learning, the FDA approval presentation in 2022 answers all your questions why Novavax is superior. FDA should have promoted Novavax after their presentation but instead kept pushing mRNA.

Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee – 6/28/2022

Timestamp 3:16:00 Novavax Showing Growing Variant Coverage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFdzNUus_CE

This shows Original Novavax covered BA4/5, while mRNA didn't work and needed bi-valent update, this is because Novavax platform and adjuvant is superior and applies for all updates. Instead FDA forced Novavax to make a BA4/5 bivalent like mRNA when Novavax didn't need it.

You also might want to check out the 2023 FDA meeting for the XBB update as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBOyPREXGh8

Timestamp 3:44:00 Novavax

Research showing Novavax sterilizing in monkeys (tranlates to humans) while mRNA is useless.

"Efficacy of mRNA-1273 and Novavax ancestral or BA.1 spike booster vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 BA.5 infection in non-human primates"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10451060/

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thank you. 

why do you think the company’s own website does not mention (on it’s front page) in clear/laymen’s terms that their vaccine is more sterilizing, more pan-variant, and less waning than mrna vaccines?  That is the part that doesn’t make sense to me. 

[–]John-Doe-Jane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They can't make such broad claims without facing lawsuits/false advertising. Right now, even though it's well known that Novavax has less side effects they can't even say that under EUA. But the information is in published peer reviewed literature and people can make their own interpretations/conclusions. The problem is very few people except the covid conscious actually research. It's actually shocking to me that many people don't even ask or know what the pharmacy injected into them as Covid vaccine.

Many medical professionals /immunologists/virologists who have read Novavax research literature take Novavax themselves and recommend it.

[–]Don_Ford 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, I can give you stuff on that but my final article is due.

I'm the person who has been informing everyone of these benefits...

https://www.thepeoplesstrategist.com/p/the-benefits-of-novavax-explained
https://www.thepeoplesstrategist.com/p/americans-should-be-able-to-get-novavax

and here's our last presentation to the FDA that opened up approval... finally.
https://www.docdroid.net/cQ4oLFN/vrbpac-2023-presentationpptx-2-pdf#page=16

You can join our discord to... https://discord.gg/z5cN8Nt3

[–]3buffalogirls 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don - any good info on timing for Novavax when mixed with the others? I had Novavax last spring and then the latest Moderna in Dec (just days before the surprise availability of new Novavax from Toronto public health- grrrr). Havnt had covid in last 20 months. Wondering when it would be beneficial to get new Novavax and how many shots/timing etc. thanks for all the work you put into this!

[–]kerryh80 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

You're actually hilarious! You chose this time because of 4 benefits you heard of. Can anyone back up these claims you say? All the while then you've gone ahead and taken the vaccine regardless of getting clarification to your questionw. I suppose jump first and ask any questions later 🙈😂

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

True that my comments lacked any sources. My apologies.

Novavax initially caught my attention for two reasons:

  1. because people have been saying that mixing different vaccines might provide better protection and,

  2. after a solid 24 hours of body aches following each of my mRNA vaccines, I was glad to read that the science is saying Novavax has fewer side effects. here is the source on that claim

Regarding a longer lasting protection, this is the source.. PubMed, "Safety and Efficacy of the NVX-CoV2373 Coronavirus Disease 219 Vaccine at Completion of the Placebo-Controlled Phase of a Randomized Controlled Trial, Paul T Heath lead, 2/8/23. Study size 185. Conclusion: "2-dose regimen of NVX-CoV2373 conferred a high level of ongoing protection against asymptomatic, symptomatic, and severe COVID-19 through >6 months postvaccination." It was the 6 months that I thought was significant, longer than mRNA, right?

The statement of pan-variant comes from the company's statement to the FDA Advisory Committee stating "decreases antigenic distance between variants with each dose” on 6/8/22 source, time stamp 3:16. Do they call it a pan-variant vaccine? no. Is there an indication that it has some sign of being more pan-variant than the mRNA vaccines, according to the company's testimony, yes.

Also, If it works like protein-based vaccines for other diseases, it may create a group of special cells called memory B cells and memory T cells. These cells will retain information about the coronavirus for years or even decades, enabling a quick counterattack in response to a new infection. source: NYT, 5/7/21 by Corum & Zimmer

Are these sources solid enough to say that the Novavax vaccine is pan-variant and sterilizing. No. Is Novavax broader and more sterilizing than the mRNA vaccines? I am hopeful.

In the PREVENT-19 study in 2021 (granted, not new), the company claimed "100% protection against moderate and severe disease." Study size: 29,960. The fact that there were multiple variants present at the time of this study is not enough to prove the vaccine is pan-variant but does suggest so.

I'm not an expert, I'm just trying to learn and pointing out that there are signs that Novavax might be a better choice.

[–]Same_Reach_9284 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Excellent summation and support for why Novavax should be used by more people in preventing COVID19. I was a trial member for Novavax and followed every FDA/VRBPAC meeting. The 6/22 meeting said it all and Novavax should have been given authorization then based on the evidence of broad coverage and protection. Antidotal, but I swam through every variant including Delta and even Omicron’s first appearance with my initial 2 doses given in April/May 21, based on mild side effects in blinded crossover). On the other hand both my sons, then 17 and 20, were infected with Omicron in January of 21 and had been vaccinated with mRNA available to their age group the exact same time I believe I received mine. Both were infected at different events also. I know this because my eldest received a PCR test the day before leaving for the Sugar Bowl because he left his vaccine card at college. The other most likely got his at a HS NYE party where 10 of the attendees were also out of school because of Covid. I wasn’t due for a booster til mid January and was quite concerned as they were in my household at the time. I tested daily with RAH and had 3 PCR tests in a seven day period. The booster I received lasted until December of ‘22 when I was finally infected with Covid19, most likely BQ1.1 and I’ve had worse colds. I believe it was the BQ1.1 that Novavax then noted evidence a time for change in formula. I received the XBB vaccine in mid October ‘23 and so far still protected. I don’t mask, I work in retail and travel extensively. I was very lucky to be a part of the trial and am a firm believer in Novavax’s vaccine, it’s broad and durable protection.

[–]Unique-Public-8594[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I'm still new to all of this information but I'm trying to get up to speed.

Thank you also for being in the Novavax trial!