SpaceX Red Dragon

Discussion on how SpaceX will test Red Dragon systems including EDL.

I imagine that SpaceX will want to gain flight data when using the SuperDracos during supersonic high altitude flight to simulate the Mars atmosphere.

IMO SpaceX has two options when it comes to testing EDL:

1. Use Dragonfly (with a payload simulator similar to planned Mars experiments) and F9R reused F9 from the in-flight abort test (assuming they recover the F9R F9 after the experiment). In this scenario F9R F9 flies dragon to ~60-70 km (again assuming that F9R has enough delta-v to perform this task) and release Dragonfly at supersonic speed. Then have Dragonfly ignite the SuperDracos and perform the test. This test would be very similar to the test. After the test they could have the Dragonfly either do a propulsive landing experiment or just have it deploy a parachute. The only problems I could see this having would be releasing Dragonfly from F9R F9 in the atmosphere. Would the drag cause it to slam back into the booster? Also if Dragonfly performed a 180 degree maneuver after being released would it RUD from pressure? I guess to solve these problems they could have it release from 100 km or so and have it reenter. Also if F9R does not have enough delta-v they could always use a previously used F9 core.

2. After a Dragon 2 mission to the ISS have it re-enter and perform the same task as #1. Doesn't seem like the best way to obtain data however because Dragon 2 would most likely have a somewhat different mass since it was optimized for an ISS mission. Having said that the Dragon 2 would be going much faster as it is re-entering from orbit which would be somewhat more similar to a Red Dragon entry profile.

Let me hear everyone's thoughts about what you think SpaceX plans on doing to test the Red Dragon.

Note: I've discussed this topic in many threads, but I think that this post is necessary to do it justice. Also I understand that this is just early speculation and there isn't much known about the Red Dragon or its final payload to Mars.
Edit: Clarification. Removed F9R as F9R-Dev2 won't be flying. Credit: .
Update: Resource: Slightly outdated, but great resource none the less. Gives an idea about EDL phase of Red Dragon.

I recently learned of the "Ballistic Capture" method to deliver payload to mars (link below). You can launch at anytime and take a few months longer to arrive in order to save 25% on fuel. Instead of waiting for the planets to align every 2 years and providing the spacecraft with enough Delta V to chase Mars (traditional Hohmann transfer window), you place the spacecraft in the path of mars and allow mars to catch up -- this requires 25% less fuel. Given the mass saving and the flexibility of launch date, should this be utilized for a Red Dragon mission? Here's an article about Ballistic Capture:

Recently I did a with physicist Thomas Myers. He's a regular contributor to ().

He runs a website , dedicated to breaking down various SpaceX topics, specifically:

And the cool thing is that he does so from a first principles standpoint.

In the interview we cover a bunch of different topics related to SpaceX and Mars colonisation.

The interview can be listened to or via (episode 3).

Discussion includes:

• Intro to Tom and how he came to start his blog “The Physics of SpaceX”

• Why SpaceX only reuses the first stage of the Falcon 9 (Tom explains extrapolating from the rocket equation + other calculations the infeasibility of second stage re-use)

• What SpaceX Mars colonisation logistics may look like (BFR + MCT). How the MCT could re-fuel in space.

• How “breaking” when arrive at Mars works (high level) using aerobraking + retropropulsion

• Using SpaceX Mars logistics for other organisations (universities, governments) to put things on Mars.

• Tom’s background in rocketry – competing in solid fuel rocket building competitions against the USA + French

• 21m – The complexity (?) of an engineering leap from kerosene based fuels to methane

• Fuel options on Mars (Methane or Hydrogen) + tradeoffs between the two

• Who might be the first people to go to Mars? SpaceX Engineers / NASA astronauts

• Mars collaboration going forward? ESA, JSA, China

• Will others be able to copy/compete with SpaceX?

• Discussion of Skylon’s single stage to orbit liquid hydrogen concept, how it could bring down the cost of transporting payloads into orbit (in the future), and how extra ‘players’ will increase redundance capacity (should something happen with a BFR etc)

• Ion engines and “going the long way around” to Mars, to reach it outside of transfer windows

• 38m – How ion engines work (vs liquid propellant) (loosely explained)

• If ion engines can go 10x faster, how do they break at the other end? Force of air resistance scales with square of speed

• 42m – Why ion engines won’t work within the Earth’s gravity

• SpaceX plans for creating a satellite network to share internet across the world. How it will benefit the world + SpaceX. Including creating communication between Earth + Mars

• 51m – In situ-resource utilisation. Why we want to go to Mars vs building something in empty space.

• Resources available on Mars

• Why asteroid mining from Mars is more appealing than from Earth

• Feasibility of living underground on Mars – including the speculated empty lava tubes

• 1hr – Future Mars governance & future independence

• Self driving cars on Mars

• 1hr 10m – How Mars will help drive new innovation – through necessity

• 1hr 18m – Virtual Reality utilisation on Mars – helping the colony to handle reduced space and movement options.

• 1hr 23m – Gravity on Mars

• 1m 28m – Various rationales for going to Mars

• 1hr 31m – Comparing the discovery of the Americas to Mars exploration

Hopefully the conversation is of interest. If you want to discuss it, reach out to either me or Tom (thettttman) in the comments. I can also be found over at .