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POLITICSChris Harrison stepping away from The Bachelor (at least temporarily). (reddit.com)

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[–]Holiday_Wonder2442 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This week I actively noticed that Chris Harrison greeted the white Rachel contestant with way more physical contact & friendlier speech than the two remaining black contestants before the rose ceremony

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Chris Harris-DONE

[–]b__b__n 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He needs to be gone permanently but they will probably give him a come back.

[–]Heartless_Weeknd 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gotta say, most of the comments really help me feel good & more importantly, seen & supported as a black woman. There's still a lot of work to be done, but from IG comments from random fans, it reeks of Karens so this is a very nice & welcome change. Y'all actually get it and I feel like my feelings as a black woman do matter when it comes to racism.

From the bottom of my heart, a HUGE thank-you to all of you not supporting Old South parties or folks who try to belittle them.

[–]AznChick4WhiteGods 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no end to the reach of White Supremacy

[–]carnivorousveg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I always got the same creepo vibes from him that I got from Katie couric and matt lauer

[–]Sketchylemons 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what happened

[–]fakemooka 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t get why he’s getting so much backlash

[–]401k_for_cats 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Unpopular take: every time there's drama, Rachel Lindsey is there.

[–]JPPT1974Team Bri 🌹 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He seems like a nice guy. Just hope he can redeem himself. Like Billy Bush of Access Hollywood there. It is about living and learning there!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see how this guy's comments are the PRIMARY problem with this show ? This ? This is the problem ? From what I saw he asked for grace and opportunity for some other person to defend themselves.

The entire franchise is sleazy as fuck, but I thought he had actually went on a racist rant or something when I saw the headline. This is ridiculous all around.

[–]seraphina_dgaf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is stupid af, from what I read all he said was to have compassion and understanding for someone who had done something offensive. How does that make him racist, why does he need to leave his job? This pc bullshit is going to far. No one can say shit these days.

[–]precedex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t watch or care about the bachelor and have only been reading about this for the past fifteen minutes but isn’t Chris making mostly the same point Obama made?

[–]longtimelurker_90 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was genuinely shocked the interview. Rachel held her own very well.

I’m shocked that in this day and age contestants aren’t vetted better than this. It should be known that any dirt from your past would easily come up.

It angered me that he blamed this all on the “woke police” and acted like this was new. I was in college years before this in a predominantly white Midwestern state and often went to frat parties, etc. Never was there a party with a racist theme, and I honestly never saw a racist costume. I truly believe if there was my friend group would have stood up against it as well. I’m not trying to toot my own horn, moreover show that yeah we were idiots in other ways, but for decent people it’s not hard to not be racist. I don’t worry about my past social media or woke police because I didn’t do those things to be ashamed of even when I was a young, drunk college student. It’s just basic human decency.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not to downplay white people who need to get their shit together, but there are also a lot of disingenuous trolls in this thread - mods, are we able to ban people if they're obviously not commenting in good faith? Just a quick look at their comment history shows they literally do nothing but post shit-stirring comments in every community they can find.

[–]Puzzleheaded_Trip229 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It doesn’t matter if you like Chris Harrison or not, what matters is people loose their jobs and lives get ripped apart because people can’t stay out of your business. Everyone has an opinion about something. He said something nice and folks are giving him a hard time. CRAZY!!

[–]Puzzleheaded_Trip229 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That stinks! I think I’ll cancel the cancel culture!

[–]AngryPutter -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

#freethebeak

[–]gmashworth94 14 points15 points  (2 children)

I truly believe that he will be back for the bachelorette and they have no intention of replacing him whatsoever.

Edit to clarify: I don’t want him back.

[–]ShextMe -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah, fuck white men! They are the worst.

[–]webmotionks -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I hope so!

[–]Rickidobbie 10 points11 points  (16 children)

It makes me sad to read some of the unkind/ignorant posts on both sides of this issue. It's good and necessary for our growth as human beings to look at our actions, realize and admit our mistakes and then strive to do better. Looks to me like Rachael and Chris are attempting to do that. How about we give them an opportunity to prove their sincerity and give them the same opportunity that we hope others give us when we make our own mistakes?

[–]Puzzleheaded_Trip229 0 points1 point  (3 children)

What did Rachel do wrong?

[–]Rickidobbie 0 points1 point  (2 children)

As I am sure you know what has gone on, I suspect your question is somewhat disingenuous and asked to elicit a response to which you can comment. I'll bite, but in this way: As she has admitted in her apology, her actions (participating in a banned plantation party, liking pictures of friends posing with Confederate flags, criticizing women dating black men) were, "racist and inexcusable."

[–]Puzzleheaded_Trip229 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never knew an Antebellum party was banned! There’s nothing racist about kids dressing up in old times clothes and dancing to modern music.

[–]Puzzleheaded_Trip229 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually i didn’t hear about some of that! She was brought up in GA. So she probably needed to grow up spread her wings before she realized what was right.

[–]quicksoChase, the singer??? 6 points7 points  (0 children)

the thing about “giving them an opportunity to prove their sincerity”.... is that, there’s no reason to give someone a public platform to millions of people on national tv, for that to happen. being on tv, and having a platform, is a privilege.

they messed up. why should they continue to receive this privilege and take up space in the public lens? what does that have to do with their ability to prove their sincerity? they’re perfectly capable of doing that outside of the public eye.

we don’t reward bad behavior with inaction under the guise of equal opportunity. that’s an argument in bad faith.

[–]st0cks1234 3 points4 points  (4 children)

So in a day or two he's come to terms with everything he said? Really? He criticized the "woke" community, then became..."woke". Me thinks not, he had 15 minutes to outline his thoughts...A LIFETIME OF THOUGHTS...but he changed those beliefs so suddenly. Have compassion yes, I agree. But it takes time to be truly accountable.

[–]Rickidobbie 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Yes, I do think it's possible to realize what you said/did was stupid. I have plentyvif personal experience. I've said and done many stupid things that I've regretted.

[–]st0cks1234 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Have you done it for 15 minutes straight? On National television? Or was it just a sentence or two?

[–]Rickidobbie 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sure I've said stupid things for 15 minutes and more. I've held opinions for years that I now know we're wrong. Whether I've stated those on national television or a 14 minute podcast (in this case) is not relevant to the degree of the offense.

[–]Ginnabean 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It's so wild that ANYONE is surprised by his behavior or trusts that he's genuine here. He's consistently been a typical right-wing talking head for years, and the only reason he's "apologizing" now is that he finally got called out for it on a scale that can't just be swept under the rug. I don't believe this apology for a second and I really hope he's made enough of an ass of himself that ABC won't bring him back (although I'm not holding my breath.)

[–]alip4 18 points19 points  (5 children)

He's gained more followers than he's lost since this happened. I'm really disappointed that so many people don't have a problem with his behaviour (past and present - I was really annoyed about a year ago when he was on the Bachelor Happy Hour podcast talking about how hard it was to be a man these days.)

[–]ShextMe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Racism in 2021 = disagree with a black person

[–]0percentwinrate -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Racism in America is so effing weird.. Slavery was a big part of their history it looks like almost all historical themed stuff has something to do with it. Now do they have to cancel their own culture entirely in order to move on?

[–]AngelinaJolie_stan 15 points16 points  (2 children)

That’s why when people say “cancel culture” and “its just ruining someone’s life” I always roll my eyes because the person being called out will always have fans who don’t care what they did and still support them 🙄

[–]lbmanninTeam Gatejumping 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Omg this. I’m in a few Bach Facebook groups and some of the comments are disgusting and incredibly disappointing. One girl thought that saying she has White privilege was ignorant and she was being discriminated against. 🥴🥴🥴🥴

[–]AngelinaJolie_stan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

LMAOO It’s laughable when some people believe that just acknowledging the fact that white privilege exists is somehow racist or discrimination. It only shows how ignorant they are. But really, Chris Harrison will not go broke or hungry by no longer hosting the bachelor. I bet he gets another job and everyone conveniently forgets this whole thing 🙄

[–]mrsunshine1 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Having Chris step aside obscures the fact that this show is a toxic mess that exploits the worst of human emotion and behavior. We’re all complicit (myself included). A new host, more representation, etc won’t change any of this. Will I stop watching? Probably not. But taking the moral high ground for the Bachelor of all things, seems silly to me. What show did we think we were watching?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Right..so keep fucking posting here & watching the show...lol

[–]mrsunshine1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s what I’m saying

[–]wine_o_clockTeam Kill 'Em With Booty 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Can you elaborate? Do you think it does more harm than good to ask for more representation? Or do you think more representation would be pointless?

I can tell you as a black woman who has watched the show for nearly 2 decades, more representation would mean a lot to me. I guess I didn’t even know it was a possibility.

I’m interested to know your thoughts.

[–]mrsunshine1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it matters for sure and the tokenization of contestants of color is a real and valid problem. My point is mainly that this show has always been so bereft of morals as a whole. I feel like saying that it needs a new host because of what happened and ignoring all the other issues is an implicit approval or pass of the toxic behavior done by the producers and the show over the last couple decades.

[–]herooftime7 3 points4 points  (0 children)

they should get dua lipa as host

[–]macademicnut 12 points13 points  (1 child)

I saw this on a buzzfeed post originally and the comments there are downright alarming. Some people are calling america “crybabies” for holding him accountable and saying he’s “not a real man” because he apologized. It reminds me of how much of a bubble this sub is in relation to the rest of the franchise.

[–]mhin8 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I suspect this isn’t how he wants to end his career and TPTB will allow him to come back for a final season if that’s what he wants. We’ll see.

[–]Black-Hole401 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It shouldn’t be about what he wants IMHO. It should be about justice, accountability and setting an example that racism should not and will not be tolerated.

[–]mhin8 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I did not advocate that he should get what he wants. I said this is what I think will happen.

[–]Communication_West 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I can’t believe the nerve of people trying to give Chris “grace “ as if he’s not upholding white supremacy by failing to called out racist acts.. He showed his true colours and he should’ve known better at age 50 that any racism against anybody isn’t okay . Maybe I sound like an asshole but doubling down and defending plantation themed parties because they are young white children just playing dress up isn’t okay . I knew from a younger age in like grade school that discriminating against others because they looked different was never ever okay and to call out wrongdoings to fix that issue . There’s mistakes and there’s choices and he chose to defend such disgusting acts as business as usual . Accountability isn’t cancel culture btw.

[–]cmillerlite 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I like TV hosts who aren’t racist.

[–]ProfPipes 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Interesting this season has the lowest ratings out of any season and has the lowest viewers in bachelor history. According to abc each season has been going down since season 18 which had 8.65 million viewers on average. This season has 5.01 million on average.

[–]Sly_Hulud 1 point2 points  (19 children)

Can some one explain what happened? I haven't been watching this season.

[–]RepresentativeTerm5 16 points17 points  (18 children)

Most of this should be available on Google, but essentially, over the course of several weeks there was building evidence that one of the contestants, Rachael, had been racist/excused racist actions in the past (most of this was from social media, including liking photos w Confederate flags, dressing as Native Americans, being friends with members of a racist fraternity). Her family and friends defended her. Last week, photos were released of Rachael in 2018 at an Antebellum ball dressed as a plantation owner. This week, Chris Harrison excused these actions in an interview with Rachel Lindsay, essentially saying that we had to extend her grace because there was no way to know those actions were offensive in 2018. He blamed the “woke police” for targeting her and basically said we shouldn’t cancel her as she was a good person. Several cast members spoke up against this, notably Taylor Nolan, all of this bach season and all of the previous bachelorette, many other cast members. Chris released an apology, at which point several audience members, cast members, podcasts etc were still calling for his removal. He stepped aside. I definitely missed some things behind the scenes and have not addressed the depth of the racism excused by CH over years of the show, but these are the most recent events.

[–]3ebfan 7 points8 points  (17 children)

Thanks for this succinct explanation. I have been trying to catch up and until now I thought the drama only went back as far as the “woke police” comment. I didn’t understand the context behind that interview.

Thanks for taking the time to type that

[–]LovePixie -4 points-3 points  (16 children)

And by dressing as plantation owner, they mean dresses like you find in gone with the wind, which some people are calling for cancellation too due to it being antebellum. I'm not sure where I sit on this.

I'm all for this show to be cancelled. But the outrage over this is over the top. LoL

[–]Ginnabean 5 points6 points  (3 children)

An alternate name for the "antebellum south" as an era is literally "the plantation era." It's specifically defined by being pre-Civil War — you know, the war that was fought over the right to own slaves. I understand how a white person who isn't educated on racism, particularly in the south where this stuff is normalized, might not realize it's racist... but that doesn't mean it isn't. And ignorance may not be as bad as active cruelty, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.

[–]LovePixie -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm not saying it shouldn't be addressed, we have like systemic racism still on going, or systemic sexism even, serious things of consequence. I just don't think this is one of them. But you do you.

[–]RepresentativeTerm5 6 points7 points  (11 children)

I've been thinking about it like this: when they're playing dress-up during the antebellum period, they're dressing up as people who built their lives off of owning slaves. In my opinion, slavery shouldn't be romanticized--it was an atrocity that cost the lives and dignity of so many Black people, who are still recovering from its effects. They're not just wearing a costume, they're dressing up specifically as someone who held power during this time, and it is inappropriate to do so especially ignoring the consequences of these actions for their slaves. These events go with men dressing up as Confederate soldiers, and are often accompanied with Confederate flags. I would be very uncomfortable, in addition, with someone dressing up as a Nazi, or in the aesthetic of a Nazi's wife, and went to a party with Nazi flags just because they thought the outfits were cool. Even if slavery ended 165 years ago, these consequences and the pain still endures.

I would also say the outrage over this is stemming not just from this one event, or one or two comments about "woke police," but a general attitude from all of production, not just CH, to mistreat contestants of color and ignore racial biases, AND the lack of an apology from Rachael before she was defended. Even if these actions on their own weren't deserving of this backlash, an apology and a promise to do better would've gone a long way.

[–]Lcmofo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Wish NBC or CBS or something would take this momentum and create a new dating show.

[–]Lcmofo 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Random thoughts:

  • I didn’t know Chris was from Texas and hearing that (from Sharleen’s post) made me think of his dress shirts with the cuffs in different patterns and how Cam from Modern Family wore them a lot, and he’s also from TX.

  • Did anyone else think of Unreal when they heard of Chris stepping aside? You could just see the network execs freaking out over this hubbub but not giving a shit until it started to potentially affect the show’s future.

[–]cooliojulio967 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Cam is from Missouri...sorry I’m rewatching modern family right now lol so just wanted to point that out

[–]Lcmofo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. That’s right! My point being I didn’t realize Chris was from the “south.”

[–]brendalee1229 66 points67 points  (26 children)

The easiest, most lucrative job, and he fumbled the bag for some girl we barely know. Which to me obviously points out she’s the winner or else he wouldn’t be batting this hard for her. I feel like if it was anyone else we probably wouldn’t have heard anything from him

[–]tides_and_tows 24 points25 points  (21 children)

Yeah... but he was literally just trying to do his job and didn’t do any of the stuff Rachael did himself. Wild to me that this is where we are.

He was right about a lot of what he said. We need to give people the space to grow, not just set out to ruin their lives and be unsatisfied if that doesn’t happen.

She grew up in an extremely racist town and likely didn’t know better until very recently because of that. Does that make any of what she did ok? No. Does it mean we should see what she has to say now and if she’s willing to learn and grow before going after her with pitchforks? Yes, and I feel like that’s all he was really trying to say, although his minimizing of the parties was genuinely concerning.

Now before you accuse me of microaggressions, I’m ethnically Jewish and something similar happened with Gina Carano lately for making anti-Semitic statements. I feel the same way about that. If we can’t sit down and actually talk to each other, and just resort to firing people or not being happy until their life is ruined, how does that motivate people to learn about racism (of which anti-Semitism is a type as well)? Instead it just makes us more angry at each other and more divided which is extremely counter-productive imo.

And it also causes the conversation to shift into a debate about if that person should have gotten fired or not, instead of remaining focused on the racism at hand and how we can combat it.

I just don’t think this is the right way forward for us as a society.

[–]Hiadrenalynn 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Take a look into the racial bias that the show have shown over the years. Bachelordata on Instagram have shown this with objective data. You can also look up how Chris Harrison have made numerous xenophobic and sexist comments before.

Chris Harrison makes millions of dollar a year for saying 5 lines a week. For years, the producers and Chris have manipulated and made fun of countless contestants on tv, and ACTUALLY ruined people's lives with scarring situations (e.g., having contestants with racists actions on a season with racialized leads, forcing Cassie into a relationship with Colton, divulging personal information in unintended ways). Where do you stand on this? They are getting off with even more money.

You say people needed to sit down and talk things out. Didn't Rachel Lindsay do that? And didn't Chris Harrison refuse to listen and gaslighted her?

If Chris Harrison gets fired, it's because he did not deserve his platform after not using his extensive media training, time and wealth to educate himself. Can't he educate himself off screen, while giving someone better versed on the social issues of today a chance to earn those millions?

[–]tides_and_tows 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, I mentioned this in the response to the comment directly below yours, but I’m pretty new to the franchise (just started watching a few months ago bc quarantine had me bored and wanting reality tv). Because of that, I think there is context that I’m missing, and I’m glad the commenter below (and you) have pointed this out. It definitely changes things if he has a history of doing this, and yep, I’ll be looking into that to inform myself more on everything going on.

Still, though, I think the deeper problem is that Rachael even made it on the show in the first place, and that the contestants need to be vetted better. But from what you’re telling me maybe the showrunners don’t care? So there’s the problem. What does it matter if Chris steps aside if that issue isn’t also dealt with?

[–]wine_o_clockTeam Kill 'Em With Booty 0 points1 point  (7 children)

We can and should still have conversations about this, but that does not mean there should be zero accountability. If you make racist comments and lose your job over it, it is your choice to learn from it and grow or remain ignorant.

I’ve made poor decisions out of ignorance and paid serious consequences too. Sometimes I took it as an opportunity to be better, sometimes I repeated the behavior. It is no one’s responsibility to educate me but my own.

I’ll also note that Rachael’s Insta followers have increased by tens of thousands since this unfolded. Chris still has over a million followers, millions of dollars, and will likely continue to profit from the show if he is no longer hosting. I would not exactly call their lives ruined.

[–]tides_and_tows 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I don’t mean they’re ruined now, I mean that it seems like people are so angry that they won’t be satisfied until their lives ARE ruined.

Nick Cannon made highly offensive anti-Semitic remarks and lost his job over it. Was his apology enough for me as an ethnic Jew? No. Am I going to continue to cancel him without seeing if he actually follows up those words with actions proving he meant what he said? Also no. If he continues to practice ignorance and preach the hateful rhetoric of Farrakhan, or continue to have ties to this man, that’s a different situation. But what more are we asking people to do in these situations? What would be enough?

[–]wine_o_clockTeam Kill 'Em With Booty 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I’m curious what actions you think the average fan can take to ruin Chris Harrison’s life. It seems to me the extent of their power is to voice their opinion and not watch his shows.

I think to say, “Chris did something hurtful and offensive, but if you keep bringing up what he did and don’t support his shows, you’re ruining his life” would be wrong.

What are your thoughts here?

In regards to your question, what people have been asking for is that Chris Harrison steps down from hosting the Bachelor. With this statement, I think people are interested to see if and how he follows up on his promises. I do think people are asking for more from the franchise with regards to racism in the show, because they believe the issue extends far beyond Chris.

What else do you see people asking for?

[–]tides_and_tows 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Hey, thanks for asking. To be clear I don’t think what’s happening to him currently is life ruining, I mean he has a lot of money right? It’s probably inconvenient but not life-ruining.

What I’m talking about is seeing a lot of comments saying “not good enough” etc and people who seem to want to see more and more bad things happen to him.

In terms of what else people should be asking for... I don’t want to tell other people how they should feel, but in my eyes, the contestants need to be more thoroughly vetted so people with problematic pasts like Rachael’s aren’t even getting on the show. That’s not under Chris’s control, I don’t think. I personally would like to hold the showrunners accountable, rather than the host.

[–]wine_o_clockTeam Kill 'Em With Booty 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It looks like the people expressing “not good enough” are referring to one or both of these things. 1) Chris “stepping back” for potentially one episode is not enough. As mentioned, what people were asking was that he steps down from hosting the show. 2) Chris stepping down is not enough, the franchise needs to fix internal race issues (e.g. casting racists on seasons with POC Bachelor/ettes).

I looked but can’t find a comment that expresses a desire for more and more bad stuff to happen to him. If you have a link, I can give my thoughts.

[–]tides_and_tows 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Here’s a good example. Glad to see it’s been downvoted now, but I’ve seen a plenty of comments like this tbh. This is by no means the only one.

I also don’t think he needs to step down from the show over this. Even stepping back kind of bothers me because I wanted to see how he interviewed Rachael/his bringing this stuff up to her on ATFR. It would have been really telling imo.

But as far as not casting racists, I agree more needs to be done there. Contestants need to be better vetted in general. Rachael shouldn’t have even made it on the show in the first place with a past like this.

[–]wine_o_clockTeam Kill 'Em With Booty 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you. This is a troll. Their account is 195 days old and they’ve wiped their history. Their comments are solely inflammatory race-baiting. They find heated threads about racism, pretends to be social justice warrior while posting things like “white people are bad”, delete their history, and do it again. It elicits negative sentiment toward actual social justice.

[–]tides_and_tows 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out. Kind of like a wumao or something then. It’s definitely heartening that this is just a troll.

[–]brendalee1229 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very well said ! I don’t hate Chris, and certainly don’t believe he should have lost his job. If he did, it sounds like it’s just a break. The only other thing that fuels the fire is the past years in ignoring POC leads, and while he may not have all the power, people feel like his influence is big enough and yet we’ve seen not much change. The way things played out was not it, I really feel for Rachel who is getting just nasty things said to her. It’s just all very nuts.

[–]rhimcfly:FUCK_U:FUCK CHRIS HARRISON:KRISHARISON: 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Name one member of BN, other than CH, who has faced CAREER consequences for saying something racist/misogynistic. What did they do? What was the consequence? I'll wait.

Name one member of BN, who is not a PoC, who has shown growth in their antiracism journey. What did they learn? What action did they take with that knowledge? I'll wait.

[–]tides_and_tows 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Tbh I’m pretty new to the BN scene, just started watching a few months ago because quarantine has me bored lol. So I’m not going to be able to answer this because I simply don’t know enough about the franchise. Maybe someone else can?

What I will say is that I’m ethnically Jewish and was extremely offended by Nick Cannon’s recent anti-Semitic remarks and how he was parroting Farrakhan. I appreciated his apology, but it was horrifying for me to see how many people online said “he has nothing to apologize for, he’s just speaking the truth.” So I want to be clear that I do think some of what Chris said was inappropriate and offensive, but I also think at a certain point we just have to take the apology, and then see if the person follows that up with meaningful action or not. That’s how I feel about Nick Cannon. I don’t hate him, I don’t wish him ill, and I’m happy he’s said he’s willing to educate himself. Now I hope we actually see him DO that, but the whole firing thing is just weird to me because like I said I feel like it shifts the conversation to an area of debate about “should they have been fired or not” rather than focusing on dismantling racist rhetoric.

Idk, you’re entitled to disagree with me for sure. I’m not saying this is 100% right and I have all the answers; I don’t and I actually feel I grow from my points being pushed back on, so thanks for doing that.

[–]rhimcfly:FUCK_U:FUCK CHRIS HARRISON:KRISHARISON: 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I appreciate your thoughtful response, and encourage you to dive deeper into Chris's past. That might change things for you. I think it is different to call for the firing of a retirement-age white dude with a documented pattern of problematic behavior than the firing of a relatively young (by host standards) Black man.

As for my two questions, I asked because historically contestants actually benefit financially from their racist behavior by gaining followers, while more vocal advocates like Rachel Lindsay who speak out simultaneously lose followers. And then their behavior doesn't really change, anyway, down to the exact same apology the next time there's an incident. So I don't think you're doing your due diligence if you're looking at this controversy in isolation -- there's a history informing our reactions.

I don't know much about what went down with Nick Cannon, so I appreciate the context. What you said makes a lot of sense, though! I loved the wild n out ANTM episode, and am happy to join you in extending him room to grow. I would no more tell you how to feel about his apology than I would tell a BIPOC person how to feel about CH's rant and subsequent apologies.

[–]tides_and_tows 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful response as well! I don’t know much about Chris’s past to be fair, though I’ve seen people talking about it. If it’s a pattern that definitely changes things, I’m pretty much looking at this one event in isolation because I’m not that familiar with the franchise.

Also didn’t realize that about losing/gaining followers, eek. That’s really bad, and thanks for pointing it out, because again, I’m just not that aware of the franchise as a whole at this point.

Thanks for saying that about Nick - I also loved him growing up which made the whole thing even more heartbreaking, but hopefully we’ll see growth from him.

Thanks again, your comments have been illuminating for me.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

Yes. This. It really felt like people jumped on the Chris Harrison hate bandwagon when they saw it was the popular thing to do. I know first hand that a majority of Bachelor alums received bullying messages from people on the internet demanding that they speak out. This whole movement feels like one big scare tactic. Either comply, or we will harass you until you comply. Literally what's happening with Chris is proof. I hope none of these people ever make a mistake that costs them their 20-year career.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes! We need to learn how to have discussions about these important issues without expecting people to say exactly the right thing all the time. We're human. We make mistakes and we don't always say the perfect thing in every moment. The best way to grow is to allow people to express themselves in imperfect way and then respond in an equally imperfect way and explain why their words may be hurtful. This is mature, this is adult, this is how we learn.

[–]Lcmofo 24 points25 points  (3 children)

He also took the criticism she was getting very personally.

[–]tides_and_tows 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think that was more because he was trying to do his job and cover for the show because Matt likely chose her. Could be wrong, but that’s how it came off to me.

[–]brendalee1229 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I thought the same thing !

[–]AStarInTheSkyTeam Breadstick 12 points13 points  (4 children)

Did anyone else assume the stuff he said was scripted by TPTB?? I always thought he was going off a script

[–]ocd1987 15 points16 points  (3 children)

I don’t think it was at all... I think he was comfortable with Rachel, there was no PR in the call to cut him off the first time he said “woke police”... and he just “went off” about “cancel culture” like Trump supporters so often do. The sad thing is I think MOST of the people who watch Bachelor probably agree with everything he said and don’t understand why any of it would be offensive.

[–]AStarInTheSkyTeam Breadstick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn’t see the clips, just what people have posted here!! Ugh. Sounds like you’re right

[–]tiredofthis3 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

So it's sad to believe that cancel culture is problematic? Sorry you feel that way.

[–]ocd1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, I do think there are issues with cancel culture. I just dislike when people cry that it's "cancel culture" when people are held accountable for their actions. I don't endorse bullying or shaming anyone, but I'm a fan of accountability, apologizing, and learning.

[–]FigBig7668 45 points46 points  (15 children)

does anyone else feel like this goes beyond chris? After the actual numbers came out of how much screen time white women had over poc this season as well as many examples of POC being painted a stereotypical narrative in nearly every season,, I just feel like more change needs to be done beyond Chris when it comes to bachelor franchise

[–]tiredofthis3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So.... basically the show is acting performative right now. Sounds about right!

[–]tides_and_tows 5 points6 points  (13 children)

This is what my bf and I were talking about. Chris is just a puppet but is being used as a martyr by the showrunners who do things which are much worse! I mean, who found Rachael and didn’t properly vet her? Why is Chris getting all the flack when he made some insensitive comments, but wasn’t responsible for getting her on the show, wasn’t responsible for the racist things she did, etc.

[–]bruuhh1234 0 points1 point  (12 children)

What do you mean by properly vet her? I bet there’s tons of girls who were cast on the show that have attended the same frat party, Hannah B for example, but it never surfaced.

[–]tides_and_tows 3 points4 points  (11 children)

I mean that if people on Tiktok were able to find this information about her producers should have been able to as well.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (8 children)

The lengths that girl on TikTok went to was quite frightening. To look up Rachael's parents' voter registration? (Also, sad that being a Republican now proves that you're a bad person.) Looking up her family's Facebook photos from 2012? This is scary that anyone thinks this is normal to do. And if you don't, I hope your past is 100% squeaky clean.

[–]tides_and_tows 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Yeah it’s too far imo. It would make sense for producers to do (some of) this BEFORE someone is brought on because then it’s not doxxing, just a background check. Doing this protects potential candidates for the show as well.

Btw I’m sort of leftist but my parents are Republican. I wasn’t able to vote for Biden in the 2021 election because my vote was suppressed (that’s a whole other story but basically I’m out of state and my ballot never arrived), I just can only imagine someone thinking I’m some sort of terrible person if they looked up my parents’ voting records and saw mine without the context I just gave you.

Re: Republicans being bad people, I think that’s ridiculous as well. Not every conservative voter stormed the Capitol or thinks the election was stolen. Not every conservative voter is a racist. I do think that voting for Trump enables those kind of toxic attitudes, but I think being totally black and white about this stuff is toxic as well. Do we all really want to live in a country where we believe half of the country is evil and out to get us? Both sides have become too hive-minded against the other imo, and we need to learn to have nuanced conversations again.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

You had me until "voting for Trump enables those kinds of toxic attitudes." There are plenty of racist people who voted for Biden. There are plenty of NON racist people who voted for Trump. And plenty of Black people for voted for Trump, too. Grouping people into categories is legitimately the problem we are facing with racism.

Rachel Lindsay said it herself in the interview with Chris Harrison, saying someone is racist because they're Republican is "ridiculous."

[–]tides_and_tows 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I agree that calling someone racist because they’re Republican is ridiculous. I also don’t think all Trump voters are automatically racist, but I do think Trump himself is, and therefore voting for him enables those attitudes.

He said there were “very fine people” on both sides in Charlottesville. I don’t think people who chant “Jews will not replace us” or drive cars into protesters should ever be referred to as such.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have knowledge around his "very fine people" comment so I don't have a response to that, nor do I think that comment is okay. But I do know that Trump has done a lot of good for the Black community when he was President, like the bipartisan bill he signed that will provide $250 million a year to Black universities and colleges.

And it's bizarre how we brush the racist comments Biden has said under the rug because it's convenient. This is a direct quote from our President, you can look it up yourself, talking about Obama: "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Biden was also accused of rape — so is it fair to say Democrats rape supporters? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-sexual-assault-tara-reade_n_5e7e69c8c5b6256a7a2a88f2

(Mind you, I'm enjoying that we can have a back and forth conversation about this. I'm not coming at you. Genuinely curious to hear your take!)

[–]bruuhh1234 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Victoria Fuller modeled for a company with confederate flag clothing and all lives matter slogan. They clearly have never vetted people.

[–]tides_and_tows 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah exactly. They need to. That’s a bigger problem imo than Chris Harrison saying some offensive stuff.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (18 children)

chris is almost 50 the “i’m growing” excuse applies when you’re 13 and think making edgy jokes is funny not when you are a grown ass man, why has it taken you this long to get educated???

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm close to the age of 50. When you get to this point you realize that at this age you're still far, far away from perfection in pretty much every aspect of life.

The older you get the more you realize how little you know, and how much more room you have to grow.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (7 children)

If we don't allow people to grow at any time in their lives, we will never beat racism. To just complain about his apology is counterproductive. Let him learn and grow and don't support the show if you don't like it.

[–]macademicnut 1 point2 points  (6 children)

I feel like facing legitimate consequences for his actions might be the best way for him to learn though

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

The internet is so fickle though — consequences for his actions? He was talking about someone who actually DID the racist actions, and yet everyone is more angry with HIM.

Does this punishment truly match this crime? Really? Someone else on Reddit said they were going to celebrate and watch the show on Monday sine he's stepped down... but Rachael, the girl who actually was racist is still on the show, and the show itself, which has been accused of racism for years... those both get a pass. Whatever is trendy at the moment...

[–]macademicnut 4 points5 points  (4 children)

“The punishment?” Sis he’s a millionaire who just took a “step back” from hosting a reality show. I think he’s going to be just fine. I for one am glad it isn’t just being swept under the rug, maybe taking time to reflect and having repercussions really is the best thing.

And holding him accountable isn’t excusing Rachael.

[–]ariel-colossus 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Exactly! Chris defended racism in 2018 to Rachel, his black coworker. That was fucking harassment when he started ranting about the woke police after she tried to explain why Rachael’s actions were hurtful. For fuck’s sake, Rachel deserves to feel safe at work! It would be gross misconduct for ABC to allow Chris to continue working for them when he has a proven record of harassing his coworkers. And yet Chris has only committed to stepping back from hosting for ONE episode. Nothing has been said about whether he will still be working behind the scenes during this time. He’s gotten off with a scratch and people are still saying it’s too much. It’s pathetic. Anybody defending him right now needs to go listen to the Higher Learning episode about it and then try to say that Chris doesn’t deserve tangible consequences from the network.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She needs to feel safe at work... while people are literally sending death threats to Chris’ family. And I listened to Higher Learning. I enjoy hearing different perspectives.

[–]ariel-colossus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“While people are sending Chris death threats?”First of all, how dare you minimize what happened to Rachel and the black community during that interview and through this entire scandal. Not to mention the damage this franchise has done for YEARS. And secondly, how optimistic of you to believe that Rachel isn’t receiving a wave of death threats right now, too. Except for Chris, these death threats will stop and things will go back to normal for him. For Rachel, never. The threat doesn’t end for her. Perhaps if you had actually paid attention while listening to that episode you would understand. But I understand now that you were already prepared to defend Chris before you even hit “play,” and you never intended to give Rachel your full consideration, let alone take what she said to heart. Did you even read the entire message that Chris posted when he announced that he was stepping back? Like he VERY clearly disagrees with your take that he’s being punished too harshly, so I really don’t get why you’re going to bat for somebody who didn’t ask you to and doesn’t want you to.

[–]macademicnut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% facts here

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child)

This...is a bad take. A very, very bad take. Growth never stops. You’re basically making an excuse for old people who say things like “well, I’m old! Can’t teach an old dog new tricks! There’s no changing now!”

You can always learn, and being “old” is not excuse not too. Age =/= wisdom, nor maturity, nor experience. We all grow at our own paces due to our life circumstances and experiences. I’d rather someone be open to learning at any age rather than dismiss things because of their age.

I say this as a black woman.

[–]tides_and_tows 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This. You did a much better job than I did getting across a similar sentiment. Thank you for saying this.

[–]tides_and_tows 9 points10 points  (5 children)

We grow our entire lives, and people make mistakes. He grew up in Texas in the 70s in a very different time.

At this point, nothing he does will be good enough for you, right?

[–]kittymaridameowcy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree. If it's a genuine apology, then I am glad he's sorry. However, as a WOC I have no interest in watching someone learn how to stop being racist/stop supporting racist behavior. And when I do, I watch "Remember the Titans" which was based in 1971. It's 2021. He can go through that journey behind closed doors. Chris really disappointed me. He had a chance to use his platform to support the Black community and used it to defend racism. I'm no longer a fan.

[–]remarkablereassurancyou sound actually ridiculous 49 points50 points  (1 child)

White woman here who previously went to a college and had these parties and wished I’d been invited to one- I’ve been conflicted with everything going on in the sub lately. I consider myself pretty progressive and “woke” and live in an urban and diverse city surrounded by similar progressives. Then, the last few weeks this sub has made me feel less than, not gonna lie. I thought I’d done my research, I thought my beliefs had changed and I fully understood so much of what I didn’t know in college or growing up in a smaller southern US town. In a way , the noise in this sub was pushing me away, making me feel that the end goal of not being racist (as a white woman) was ever going to be attainable.

I want to say to those other white women on the sub with similar feelings - that’s ok! Your progress should not be belittled or thought less than!

The movement on this sub feels loud and intimidating. But that’s how movements have to feel. Individuals in the spotlight have to take on a lot more than you or I would to send a message. Chris Harrison going down for few comments on a high profile interview makes us all (non-poc) reflect how we say things and interact with POC - things we may not have realized previously were offensive. Rachaels history (though semi recent) makes us all look back at our college days or random things on Instagram and wonder hey maybe I should reflect on why I wished I was invited to that party in college, why it was cool at the time to do x or post y.

In a way, as a non POC, I feel j can relate to Rachael, and i think that is why a lot of non POC on this sub are uncomfortable with the discussion. We can see ourselves in the ignorance. And unfortunately, as someone who auditioned and was hired to be on national television, Rachael is a public figure now who has to be made an example for all of us. Same with Chris Harrison. We now have a responsibility to reflect on OUR past actions and thoughts. We’re being summoned to a call to action - thinking “what if I were rachael, what would they find out about me?”

And those thoughts are exactly why this movement is happening and why it’s important.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, exactly. Happy Valentines' Day to you, this is so good.

[–]kp1794 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Interesting that there are so many deleted comments on this. Mods over censoring strikes again. Let people make idiotic comments so we can respond to them and help them learn why they’re wrong.

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