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[–][deleted] 2417 points2418 points  (452 children)

“When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”

-Alexander Hamilton

[–]vibe4it 393 points394 points  (9 children)

That dude had bars.

[–]arillyis 155 points156 points  (5 children)

Before burr shot him down he was finna drop the hottest mixtape of the fundamental U.S. years. Smh

[–]whoshereforthemoney 60 points61 points  (2 children)

Founding fathers were fucking cutthroat.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Talk shit get hit - Burr

[–]jaywalk98 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My historian friend was telling me that the founding fathers still had it pretty good as colonial aristocracy. They put their lives on the line on principle alone which I think is wild.

[–]Ninjaboi333 41 points42 points  (0 children)

They should make a musical Broadway about his life.

[–][deleted] 151 points152 points  (16 children)

Alexander Hamilton (the man, not the musical ;) )
Objections and Answers Regarding the Administration, August 18, 1792

This section precedes this quote and is worth including:
"The truth unquestionably is, that the only path to a subversion of the republican system of the Country is, by flattering the prejudices of the people, and exciting their jealousies and apprehensions, to throw affairs into confusion, and bring on civil commotion..."

This was written in response to accusations that he wanted to restore the monarchy.

[–]-Gabe 38 points39 points  (5 children)

This was written in response to accusations that he wanted to restore the monarchy.

Which is very poignant too for our current time. In the 1770s and 1780s, Great Britian waged an information war against the United States to propagate fake news and misinformation about the health of the Nation's young government.

The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist?

Thomas Jefferson, 1787

A very similar war is being waged with Russia today, only on a modern digital battlefield

[–]mawfks 194 points195 points  (32 children)

Woah

[–]lennybird 113 points114 points  (25 children)

There's a pattern to this authoritarianism that scapegoats and witch-hunts and appeals to shortsighted fear, anger, and selfishness—all the while exploiting the most ignorant, the most apathetic, the most malleable among us.

This story has happened time, and time again in history, and if you can't see the pattern revealing itself once more here... Well, you're frankly not paying attention or don't seem to care.

Oliver nailed it when he spoke of the resiliency of our institutions. Apologists to Trump will scoff and say Trump isn't Hitler, he isn't Mussolini, etc... But he exhibits many of the behaviors that were some of the beginning seeds to such individuals, and the biggest thing holding him back are the protections and checks & balances put in place by our Founders. But even the strongest dams have a breaking-point.

[–]Cosmic-Engine 108 points109 points  (11 children)

The biggest danger isn’t that Trump becomes another Hitler. It’s that someone more intelligent, more disciplined, better pedigreed (for example, a veteran as opposed to draft dodger, an entrepreneur as opposed to a silver-spoon baby), more capable comes along after Trump and takes over the work. Imagine what all of this would have looked like if Trump wasn’t a lazy, bumbling fool. There are a lot of people waiting in the wings who have been watching this shitshow and thinking “holy shit, this is gonna be easy.

If we do not SHARPLY rebuke this kind of behavior in public discourse and at the polls, we will be forced to do so with violence (or perish before we have the chance). That is the most difficult part of this lesson. Democracy is preferable, but fragile. Here we can insert a million quotes, which all say the same thing: We have this republic only because we formed a social contract among each other to choose who runs things, who sets and collects the taxes, who goes to prison and who takes them there, who can build a house and where, whether we’re at peace or war and against whom, everything. All of this is just an abstraction. It can be replaced with violence at any time.

Let us genuinely hope, and work with all haste and dedication, to avoid that outcome - but remain prepared for it nonetheless.

[–]vikingzx 14 points15 points  (3 children)

The caution I would add with this statement is to not repeat the mistakes of the past and assume that whoever sounds appealing to you is automatically not qualified to carry out exactly what u/Cosmic-Engine is warning about. Just because they're "your party" or what they say sounds really good doesn't mean that you should jump on board right away and throw your hat in.

Don't repeat the past. Many despots rose to power in exactly that manner. Absolutely guaranteed there are individuals on both sides of the party line licking their lips and looking at Trump as a golden opportunity for power. DO NOT buy into the assertion that because they're "on your side" they're really on your side.

Learn from history, and do your due diligence. Don't just listen to empty promises.

[–]ieatconfusedfish 2 points3 points  (3 children)

TLDR - Get a shotgun axe?

[–]Cosmic-Engine 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Oh fuck a shotgun axe sounds amazing and now I want one.

edit: After a quick google, it looks like I should also be watching Agents of SHIELD.

[–]Leachpunk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes, agents of shield is amazing, especially seasons 4 and 5.

[–]RLucas3000 31 points32 points  (5 children)

This. Why don’t people see it? It’s not like he hides it well at all. He almost revels in it.

[–]GenTelGuy 28 points29 points  (4 children)

They can see it, they just choose not to - they're acting in bad faith.

[–]ds612 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I'd like to believe a lot of the oldies see it but they welcome it and poison the minds of the youth by spoonfeeding them wrong information via bad education. The only way to combat this type of behavior is to educate everyone. You need to give the people the means to remove the blinders from their eyes.

[–]tjc5425 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I agree 100%, as Paulo Freire once said, “Education is freedom.” Our system needs to be reworked so that our kids can think critically and be thoughtful well spoken citizens, and not just regurgitating information they’re told to study.

[–]Yrcrazypa 17 points18 points  (4 children)

This is exactly why I don't mind kicking the hornet's nest by calling out that blatantly fascist shit when I see it. It makes some people angry when I don't play the role of being "fair" and "polite" to those people, but fuck'em. If they want to argue in bad faith I'm not playing into their hand.

[–]Good_wolf 9 points10 points  (3 children)

A lot of people would agree with you, but if they were to point out things that, say, Obama did that undermined constitutional values, would you then be willing to listen?

Lots of people aren’t, if my experience is any indication.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The way I'd put it is that people don't change - not in their nature, not in their thought process, not in their intentions over history. Technology and institutions change, the latter being especially important because they are all the stand between our better nature and our...worse nature. Courts, due process, the rule of law and democracy in general are the results of endless lessons learned the hard way through misery and blood. To let them be damaged or destroyed is a betrayal of our ancestors. Such institutions represent the height of our civilization, at least in my opinion. The people within them and around them are far less important, and nothing about them is ever particularly new.

[–]peanutbutteroreos 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I read that in Lin Manuel's voice.

[–]mastalavista 588 points589 points  (343 children)

desperate in his fortune

Let's look at Trump alone for now and take the word "fortune" literally for a moment. Considering Trump's fortune was massively inherited and ill-gotten through suspicious tax evasion schemes and considering just how many ties to the Russian mob he has, there's more than good reason to think he is desperate all right. Even Bannon has claimed it's "all about money laundering".

possessed of considerable talents

If we consider swindling people a talent, sure. I'd squarely contend it's no talent at all (in any valuable sense of the word), but people have been impressed by less. Otherwise, even his own associates and appointees have shit on him for being an uncurious simpleton. I don't think he has any talents at all. Mere exploitation of people is not a talent, it's the lowest hanging fruit.

having the advantage of military habits

Not Cadet bone spurs, who was afraid of a little rain to go honor the memory of fallen WWI troops -- though not scared enough to postpone golfing.

So besides these things, the rest is spot on. Trump sure is an authoritarian demagogue, just a moronic one. We all know this.

But what should concern us all deeply is the ideological corruption and network of right wing propaganda that has abetted his rise to power. Trump is the best worst case scenario. A lazy idiot.

If he were a true ideologue with any real capacity, we'd be even more fucked by now. As bad as it is, we're just getting a taste right now. Remember, one of the first things this administration did was ram the Muslim ban through. But they didn't even stop there. They went after Green card holders (people who have fully abided by the laws of immigration). It was a mockery of law and order, of "lawful immigration".

Thankfully our institutions are bearing the weight for now. Despite all his swampy appointees. Yet the real lasting danger is the supporters themselves, who have given themselves over to a delusional cult. And more moderate Republicans are enabling the worst of the bunch. A significant portion of the country is being slow cooked to Nazism before our eyes.

The only cure is for us all to keep showing up at the polls, and never stop showing up. We must overpower them with the right answer at the polls.

[–]God_Damnit_Nappa 13 points14 points  (3 children)

known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty

I'd say this part isn't true either. Trump has publicly scoffed at the principles of liberty. And his base has eaten it up. I don't know if that's more or less dangerous than him doing it in private, but it's certainly interesting to see how his party doesn't give a shit about him openly shitting on our checks and balances and our democratic ideals.

[–]jrodrigues 30 points31 points  (16 children)

That's why I can't decide if Pence would be worse - a zealot with a brain.

[–]GetTheLedPaintOut 65 points66 points  (12 children)

But no charisma to inspire those desperately looking to be led. Also, and I'm not certain this still applies to Pence, but I will always take the politician attempting to do evil through the usual channels over someone like Trump who will take every avenue available to him to push his evil. The media knows how to handle someone like Pence, where it struggles to expose Trump for what he is because they are so used to covering people like Pence.

[–]I12curTTs 32 points33 points  (11 children)

I don't think they have trouble exposing him. It's that a certain electorate isn't listening. Some might hear you, but most don't give a shit. Go to r/asktrumpsupporters sub. They're turning against the admiral who took out Osama bin Laden. They actually support being allies with Saudi Arabia. They're using every mental trick in the book to justify everything he says and does. It's a cult.

[–]____jamil____ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

at this point, competency is better than incompetency. there is a congressional check on what can be done, i would be FAR more comfortable w/ Pence.

[–]santichrist 116 points117 points  (42 children)

Lol at MAGA reddit downvoting this, you guys are pathetic

[–]BRBarnard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I thought I liked using em-dashes.

[–]bpmartin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TL,DR: Chaos is a ladder.

[–]Things_with_Stuff 222 points223 points  (24 children)

As usual.... Not available in Canada...

😑

[–]Gato1980 270 points271 points  (9 children)

Here you go. It's 18 minutes, so I had to split it in two to work with streamable.

1st Part.

2nd Part.

[–]Things_with_Stuff 36 points37 points  (2 children)

The real hero! 😁

[–]LeBonLapin 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Real human being...

[–]MogwaiInjusticeCommunity 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I should go watch Drive again.

[–]TheZenPsychopath 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thank you kindly.

[–]Brother_Bear_001 2 points3 points  (0 children)

MVP...MVP....MVP...MVP

[–]Constantly_OnYo_Back 6 points7 points  (4 children)

They have it on Youtube, I can get it in Ireland.

[–]TheGibberishGuy[🍰] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Because of YouTube's geoblocks, I have to resort to poor reuploads to watch John Oliver or pretty much any other official uploads of shows. It doesn't even make any sense for why you'd need it

[–]jkgaspar4994 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Because someone owns the licensing for HBO in your country and has a monetized distribution channel for you to get that content. HBO in the USA chooses to upload that content on YouTube for free (with ads) but whoever owns HBO’s distribution in your country wants you to pay for their service to consume it.

[–]Meercatnipslip 119 points120 points  (4 children)

I'm an older US citizen and people are falling back into familiar territory before the Great War. Too many people feel unrepresented and afraid. This creates an opportunity for manipulation by disingenuous leaders. We should all remember the past to safeguard our future

[–]thats1evildude 40 points41 points  (18 children)

If I have to credit Donald with anything, it’s making me realize how much the human population yearns for tyrannical rule.

“It’s the unspoken truth of humanity: that you crave subjugation.”

[–]THEVILLAGEIDI0T 859 points860 points  (138 children)

Latin guy here; we have seen this all over Latin America with left or right presidents placed by the USA for the interest of the USA. Today the game is being played by the Russians. They’re following the “divide and conquer” playbook to fulfill their interest. 'Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.'

[–]deadhourAgents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 336 points337 points  (50 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

That is the geopolitical playbook Russia is using. Fascinating and scary to read how much is happening just as was planned 20 years ago.

[–]moffattron9000 144 points145 points  (37 children)

On the bright side, they completely failed in their attempts to dismantle China, not to mention that Germany is not sitting down.

[–]yodellingposey 150 points151 points  (32 children)

"the UK should be cut off from Europe" Brexit anyone?

[–]moffattron9000 93 points94 points  (31 children)

Funnily enough, that play might actually workout well for the EU. After all, every member state is probably about to see what just happens when someone leaves, and the damage that it can bring. Not only could this very well strengthen the EU as a whole, but it may give France and Germany more power to punish the Hungary's and the Poland's of it.

[–]SuperSilver 52 points53 points  (7 children)

The point is not to destroy Europe but to break the Transatlantic axis that is currently the dominant influence over world geopolitics, which will allow Russia to recenter world politics around Eurasia and increase their own influence at the expense of USA/UK.

[–]funnyonlinename 48 points49 points  (6 children)

They don't have enough to offer geopolitically to recenter the world's affairs around them. China will be the new center of gravity in the coming century no doubt about it. Russia will remain largely irrelevant.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Isn't Russia's economy smaller than California's?

It's easy to look at maps of Russia and think this is some evil empire, but really the vast majority of the population is concentrated in the east and the west is largely empty. Essentially, they own a bunch of land nobody else wants.

[–]OneFallsAnotherYalls 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Yes, Russia is extremely weak and when Putin is gone it'll be lucky if it holds together.

[–]Vinbarsaft 7 points8 points  (1 child)

the west is populated and the east is empty

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

God damn it. You're right.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I'm sure Russia doesn't mind about their failed attempt (if they even tried it) in China, as their relationship with China has been going pretty well lately.

For Germany, it definitely has not back down yet. However, there is still some tension between Western and Eastern Germany with regards to immigration (AfD).

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Which left-wing presidents has the USA placed in power?

[–]CyHawkWRNL 26 points27 points  (0 children)

..and now John Leguizamo is in my head going "not Carlos you guys.... George."

[–]trevy_mcq 16 points17 points  (0 children)

What leftist leaders did the US prop up in Latin America?

[–]BirdSoHard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

we have seen this all over Latin America with left or right presidents placed by the USA for the interest of the USA.

FTFY

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (13 children)

This is hysterically absurd. Russia are certainly bad guys but to paint this ridiculous narrative that they are some Spectre slowly stacking politicians all over the world is beyond the pale of Hollywood melodrama.

Many sanctions are still placed against Russia by the international community. Prior to and post Trump.

[–]Skagzill 469 points470 points  (75 children)

I have to point out two things off with this piece in regards to Russia and Putin.

First of all that footage of parade is from Victory day Parade dedicated to the end of WW2. It is tradition that started after the war and kept going annually under all regime since. Attributing them to Putin is bit iffy.

As for diving into icy water it is also Russian tradition related to christening of Rus back in the day. Even children do it. So portraying as some show of masculinity is kinda ignorant.

[–][deleted] 255 points256 points  (28 children)

Yeah France has those parades too and they are far from being authoritarian.

If Russia turned super democratic and liberal by tomorrow the military parades and ice diving would continue.

[–]hungry4danish 72 points73 points  (7 children)

I have never seen another head of state shirtless let alone as much as I have for Putin.

[–]foxfact 30 points31 points  (3 children)

I like Oliver, but even when I agree with the thesis of the video, sometimes (more commonly when he's talking about other countries) some of the clips he pulls he's wrong on the context.

[–]BVDansMaRealite 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Like the clip he used a couple weeks ago with Dana Nessel for attorney general in Michigan. She made the video about not having a dick because there was like 40 sexual harassment and assault cases in the news at the time. It was quite funny but John took it out of context and made her sound like a crazy person when she's actually a bad ass and the first openly LGBT person to hold a state office here in Michigan (she won).

[–]Slartibartfras 44 points45 points  (10 children)

But as somebody who is very interested in russian politics:

Putin plays for sure with a lot of the christian symbols and powers. Why?

Well, the church of russia is still a strong institution he wants to have on his side. A lot of people believe in it and it has quite some influence. Or do you think his openly shown friendship with the head of the church?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/10/putin-wants-god-or-at-least-the-church-on-his-side/

The orthodox church played often like many religions also a big part in politics. As a politician you want to have them on your side. Also today:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/world/europe/ukraine-russia-orthodox-church.html

Another coincidence which is also symbolized by the ice bath is also convenient: it shows him as a strong man, a keeper of the good ol' values. Exactly what Oliver mentioned in his show.

Of course, you could say: it's just a bath, bro!

But you would know that this is too simple, it has too much symbolic character to be just a tradition.

[–]Skagzill 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Oh no doubt it is play for orthodox base, maybe one with a bit more sincerity than the rest. I am just disputing the divings as masculinity showcase. Most people in Russia do it, men women even the children. I mean with Putin you could do a lot better about machismo showing off. Like him riding horse naked, or his judo showcases, or him diving after historical artifacts like Nathan fricking Drake.

[–]AimlesslyCheesy 65 points66 points  (1 child)

"I want to be associated with interesting quotes" -Donald Trump the 45th President of the United States of America

🤦🏽‍♂️Oh lord, how can we recover from this?

[–][deleted] 571 points572 points  (385 children)

if you're wondering where the downvotes are coming from

http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/193933601

[–]chrono4111 310 points311 points  (98 children)

That physically hurt to read.

[–]toprim 131 points132 points  (18 children)

It's the same as reddit: you have to find pearls of common sense among a garbage pile of slimy oysters.

[–]DonaldBlythe2American Gods 73 points74 points  (11 children)

Is it even worth it at this point? Pol has infected most of the 4chan website by this point. Are the pearls really worth sifting through so much ignorant bigoted crap?

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

The ironic thing is the cancer that has become /pol/ is due to a mass migration of redditors during the 2016 elections. The same morons over at TD here. The rest of the website (for the most part) considers /pol/ just as cancerous as the rest of reddit considers TD. Most of the blue boards are more or less unaffected by /pol/, or at least the ones I browse are.

[–]DonaldBlythe2American Gods 10 points11 points  (1 child)

The boards that would draw me are /tv/and /a/. /a/ doesn't seem that bad but /tv/ seems to have half the threads complaining about interracial couples. Maybe it isn't as bad as I'm remembering though.

[–]WizardSleeves118 36 points37 points  (3 children)

I don't really go on /pol/ /v/ or /tv/ so much anymore, but have been going on /k/ and /out/ a lot and they seem pretty good so far. But honestly 4chan will always be that way with no voting or ideological moderation which allows for rampant bigotry, and some people get used to it and some don't. Though honestly outside of /pol/ that shit is cringe and most people are on the same page about it.

pic related

[–]PM_ME_CHIMICHANGASCommunity 17 points18 points  (2 children)

From that very example, wouldn't that make you one of the guys in the hoods? Sure, pol is terrible, but I'd avoid the whole crowd.

[–]stonecoldjelly 36 points37 points  (2 children)

people pay good money for oysters

[–][deleted] 50 points51 points  (0 children)

They pay more for pearls.

[–]dotdotdotdotdotdotd 88 points89 points  (12 children)

That's just concentrated t_d.

Take the uneducated losers in there, boil them down, and that is what you get.

[–]infinight888 291 points292 points  (31 children)

Ooh... Fun...

For starters, the premise of the entire thread is false. He's not redefining Totalitarianism. He's pointing out the indicators of Authoritarianism.

Now, let's dive in!

john Oliver is a clown , if you take him seriously your pathetic. that man needs his fake laughs and clap tracks like a normal man needs air.

Despite the common belief (by idiots), the laughs and claps are real. There's no laugh tracks, nor are there signs telling the audience when to laugh or clap. This has been attested by people who have been in the studio audience.

  • dismantling institutions
  • totalitarian

This stupid logic will never fail to make me rage

How is this a difficult concept to grasp? When tyrants seize power, the first thing they do is dismantle anything that can act as checks and balances on that power.

Why in the fuck Trump is not revoking the residency of non-citizens who participate in political subversion is beyond me.

Speaking of authoritarianism, let's take away visas from anyone who doesn't suck the God Emperor's Toad.

I’ll never understand how Americans can laugh along with a dagger toothed rat who clowns their country for an hour straight and not feel like a total jackass.

Would it be petty to point out that the show is only half an hour? Yes. But for Lucifer's sake, Channers, at least try to get the most basic facts right.

there is literally nothing wrong with authoritarianism.

Well, at least you're not trying to hide it.

  • 12.000 drug suspects killed
  • Oliver just calls them "people"

There's a reason they're getting killed. At least be honest about that and then criticise

Is there a reason? The key word there is "suspects", because these are extra-judicial killings. They are not charged with a crime. They're murdered. Sure, you could argue some of the killings were self-defense, but 12,000 of them? Who knows how many people were actually guilty.

comments disabled?

They're not!

I feel like half my "radicalization" was by interacting with braindead communists on campus. If you're a real man 4 years of college should make you a Nazi by the end of it..

I have nothing to add to this.

decent people contribute to society, preferably with a good STEM job and raise families, preferably white ones - JOBS not MOBS

Again, there is literally nothing I could add to this comment to make it worse than it already is.

name one foolish thing Trump has done

This is too easy.

Media over here loves spewing "muh 7000 lies" and when you ask an individual to mention one lie, they can't. At best, one can grasp for the wall, saying it hasn't been built, or something something

Wasn't it just this week that he claimed he didn't know Whitaker, who he made acting AG, despite literally saying that he knew Whitaker in a past interview? Now, I don't know if he was lying then, or lying now, but he is inarguably lying. Not to mention the illegal voters he's made up. And that's just a couple of the most recent ones. Let's not forget that his first act as President was sending out the Spice Man to lie about his penis crowd size.

[–]imblo 224 points225 points  (21 children)

This is why we are losing the battle against fake news. Think about how long it took you to articulate and gather quotes for a thoughtful response, and how little effort those 4chan posters put into theirs. Frustrating.

[–]AcerGray 83 points84 points  (3 children)

there's a really good youtube series called "The Alt-Right Playbook" that has an episode that focuses on this exact problem that we have when trying to argue against alt-righters

[–]tritter211 33 points34 points  (0 children)

you don't do it for them, you do it for readers who read those shitposts. Its always an uphill battle against shitposters. People should always dismantle shitposts as they can.

[–]AmberDuke05 11 points12 points  (2 children)

When you deal with idiots, what can you do? This also why I feel that education should be the most important thing in this country. How much dissent is do to stupidity and ignorance?

[–]imblo 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's almost like critical thinking/philosophy 101 should be mandatory at universities, if not highschool.

[–]Castriff 28 points29 points  (0 children)

It's true, but you gotta do it anyway, if only to stave off the worst of 4chan's effects.

[–]svickStargate SG-1 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Would it be petty to point out that the show is only half an hour?

John Oliver himself made the same point into a joke.

[–]Dougnifico 15 points16 points  (0 children)

They really think they are the good guys even though they praise Hitler and call people "k*kes." Holy shit are these people the scum of the Earth.

[–]trainercatladyAgents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"12.000 drug suspects killed

Oliver just calls them "people"

There's a reason they're getting killed. At least be honest about that and then criticise"

Is there a reason? The key word there is "suspects", because these are extra-judicial killings. They are not charged with a crime. They're murdered. Sure, you could argue some of the killings were self-defense, but 12,000 of them? Who knows how many people were actually guilty.

$10 says that whoever this fucker is whined about Kavanaugh being "guilty until proven innocent".

[–]TheLadyEve 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ah, r/pol, for when you want to sound both ignorant and unhinged.

[–]Mingablo 122 points123 points  (12 children)

Strawmaning, racist conspiracy, and defence of authoritarianism. No surprises here.

[–]Exodus111 48 points49 points  (7 children)

They keep switching it up. Everyone calling it Totalitarianism, when the clip is clearly tagged Authoritarianism. Totalitarianism is defined in Wikipedia as:

Totalitarianism is a political concept that defines a mode of government, which prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism.

Is this some kind of ongoing redefining of reality they have, focused on Liberalism, trying to emphasize the "restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims" part, pretending other people using their freedom of speech to argue against them, is somehow the same?

It just seems they are much more comfortable referring to Totalitarianism than Authoritarianism.

[–]Shuk247 24 points25 points  (3 children)

It's all based in bad faith. It's a mistake to expect them to treat words as anything more than weapons to be manipulated.

[–]ds612 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Just last week someone on here thought Socialism and Communism was the same thing. He didn't understand the phrase, "owned by the government" and "owned by the community." He/she thought government and community meant the same thing. Holy shit, we are talking about retards here!

[–]Jaerba 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I had a T_D idiot with zero background studying economics try to tell me that imposing tariffs is the freest form of capitalism.

The idiot didn't even know what laissez faire meant.

The people I'm really getting pissed at are libertarians and fiscal conservatives that let this bullshit take hold. The driving force of the right and Republicans is now arguing for Keynsian tools, only done in the stupidest way possible.

Fuck Paul Ryan and everyone else that sold Tea Partiers a false bill of goods. They don't give a shit about free markets or Austrian economics or neo-liberalism. They've driven the field of economics off a cliff, and now there's not even a school of economic thought driving the country's economic policies.

All of that Austrian bullshit we argued against because of Ron Paul, and now their central leaders won't even stand up for their precious Hayek and Rand.

[–]nosenseofself 20 points21 points  (0 children)

they literally have a picture with his wife there with the picture named "aryan blonde wife.jpg" and there are people that claim their nazis are just trolling and not real nazis.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'm just going to point out that minorities in America have been facing shit like this for years. This behaviour has now just become mainstream and isn't solely relegated towards specific groups.

The disease is spreading. And boy does it get bad.

[–]Villainary 48 points49 points  (2 children)

Fuck. It's sad that people take political advice from a comedian.

Right? The left should take political advice from a reality TV star. They know reality! /s

[–]Vulkarion 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What the fuck spiral did you just send me down

[–]PrsnPersuasion 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This is tangential but I just realized that I’ve been on reddit for years and never seen a direct link to 4chan until now. Weird.

[–]AvocadoInTheRain 41 points42 points  (4 children)

There are only 57 unique posters in that thread.

[–]sketchquark 44 points45 points  (0 children)

which is about 58 too many

[–]TJBaconSouth Park 5 points6 points  (1 child)

57 readers too I presume? Doubt it.

[–]backinredd 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I love posts on r/greentext and when I try to actually get involved in 4chan my mind melts down

[–]Aardvark_Man 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Some boards are good, some are trash, some are a mix.
I usually stick to /tg/ and it's usually ok, but given the amount of 40k content it definitely bleeds in a lot.

[–]stamau123 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not an hour goes by I don't see multiple threads on tg obsessing over WOTC, specifically their art for "some reason"

[–]walkinghard 49 points50 points  (4 children)

Some of them are admitting Trump is authoritarian and telling others 'It's not a bad thing to be, Oliver is a pc cuck' etc. etc.

And they're talking about the rise of left-wing radicals...while supporting fascism and calling for the heads of non-crazies.

Fuck me the right-wing is just completely retarded. No excuses anymore, they're just fucking stupid. They'd vote hitler over a liberal at this point.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

They'd vote hitler over a liberal at this point.

Have you never visited /pol/ before? They were a neo-nazi board forever. The board got deleted multiple times.

[–]Dqueezy 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Holy shit, what a compacted gathering of whiney brats. Makes you wonder how many of them are human or trolls.

[–]Fluffy_Rock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My brain hurts after only reading 8 comments, Jesus.

[–]Terrible_With_Puns 72 points73 points  (2 children)

Heavy t_d brigading happening here

[–]TheMaybeN00b 22 points23 points  (1 child)

sad part is he said it himself, his supporters love those authoritarian leanings. This video only serves to affirm everyone else’s beliefs

[–]obliviate481The Leftovers 53 points54 points  (4 children)

t_d brigade is real in this comments section

[–][deleted] 112 points113 points  (96 children)

So, his "three common traits" that denote an authoritarian leader make sense, but are they actually real ways to sniff out any authoritarian ruler?

The piece overall was beautifully written, and I by no means support Trump in any fashion. I just don't agree with his logical progression of "These authoritarian leaders possess these traits , Trump also has these traits, therefore Trump would be an authoritarian leader without the US checks and balances in place." It seems too similar to a slippery slope fallacy to be used in argumentIt affirms the consequent, making it too weak to be used in an actual argument, which is what I feel his channel is trying to promote, using his evidence and arguments in argument with Trump supporters.

This one just feels alittle half-baked, overall...

[EDIT: It's not a slippery slope, but instead defies discrete mathematical logic by affirming the consequent ( A → X∧Y∧Z does not prove X∧Y∧Z→A, therefore you cannot say B→X∧Y∧Z→A∴B→A as a guaranteed proof), making this an incomplete a fallacious argument. Set theory also does not support it (you would need A=X∩Y∩Z for (B∈X)∧(B∈Y)∧(B∈Z)→(B∈A) to be true, which in this argument would mean that Dictators would have to be Defined by their projection of strength, their demonizing of enemies, and their dismantling of government institutions, which is not what defines an authoritarian group and/or leader. With what Trump has provided as evidence, we can provide way more precise and more stable arguments than this.

It doesn't provide anything to the political discussion to call Trump a dictator, it only serves to widen the divide between Americans.]

[EDIT: the definition of complete in discrete math is different from how I was using it, so I changed my statement that the argument was incomplete to that the statement was fallacious, to keep the terminology consistent. I had stated it was incomplete because I do feel you could at minimum prove, to a pretty high percentage, that Trump thinks like a dictator, using the evidence he has so far provided. If not like a dictator, at least like a corrupt politician.]

[–]plantman01 77 points78 points  (14 children)

The part with the Musolini quote bothered me a bit, i'm sure many terrible men have said great quotes, it doesnt make the quote untrue.

[–]whittlingman 164 points165 points  (5 children)

The concern in that interview, was that he didnt even seem to know who Mussolini was and not knowing about the history of facism, means he might not even know hes acting facistly.

[–]BVDansMaRealite 17 points18 points  (1 child)

He got really close to saying "I love Mussolini" and I think whatever is left of his mind reflexively stopped him just in time.

[–]AsSubtleAsABrick 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He probably had a quick internal debate in his head. He knows people talk negatively about Mussolini, but there is also that quote about him keeping the trains running on time, so he can't be all bad! He played it safe and did not say he loved Mussolini, but in his head is not sure why he should hate him.

Either way, he likely doesn't know a thing about Mussolini aside from the (fallacious) idea that he kept the trains running on time.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

He seems to think what he's doing is new - that he's tapped into something new. Populism isn't new. Idiots willing to believe simple solutions for complex problems isn't new.

What he clearly doesn't seem to realize is that historically, populists governments have almost always ended in disaster.

[–]WitchettyCunt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ended in a disaster for the people. I'm sure he is in for one hell of a ride!

[–]jubbergun 32 points33 points  (3 children)

I'm pretty sure "better to live a day as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb" is an old Roman proverb, which is why Mussolini used it. He was attempting to conjure up images of Italy having the strength of Old Rome, ruling vast swaths of land, and conquering its enemies. Mussolini certainly wasn't the first person in history to utter some variance of the phrase.

[–]way2lazy2care 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There's similar quotes from different people using different animals from hundreds of years before mousilini was around.

[–]hagamablabla 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Also, just because someone said one thing that you agree with doesn't mean you agree with everything else. If Trump said burgers are better than tacos, that doesn't mean everyone who agrees also thinks the media is lying or that there's a deep state.

[–]KnowNothingtoKnowAll 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well I can't tell for sure, but if Trump openly criticized Sessions (or whatever the name of last attorney general was) for sticking to the law instead of being loyal to him (he would have probably fire hime earlier if he could). Now he threatens to stop Muller's investigation into his connections with Russians, puting himself effectively above the law... that is kind of what authoritarianism is about. It does nit need to come with red ribbon on shoulders, but simply one man raising above the law. I live in Poland, I was born after fall of communism, in free country where the story about breaking the chains of communism and breaking away from Soviet Union dependency was always celebrated as main part of national narrative and identity. When I saw "Law and Justice" party rising to power, I though "nah, doesn't matter, they are stupid enough to get voted out before their term finishes". Most things they were doing didn't bother me neither, typycal stupid greedy people in power kind of stuff. I mean, I know it's bad, but not fucking bad yet. But when I realised they want to put themselves above the fucking law, by appointing their own judges, I knew it is the high time to move your ass on the street. Protests lasted for months, situation was intense, at that point you start thinking to yourself is it really happening, is that how this authoritarianism begins. The truth is, if you have this kind of doubts, then the answer is yes, this is how it starts. You either go out and protest or "wait it through" and see how it ends. Thanks to protests the new laws got attention of the EU court and right now they are being suspended and revised. Seriously this last year I was more happy about being citizen of the EU than of my own country. Thanks to it's leverage it will probably all end up well. Who knows where would we be if that wasn't the case.

[–]whittlingman 38 points39 points  (5 children)

If Oliver went into detail, it would turn an entertaining show into a lecture, and it would be boring and people wouldn't watch it. People have posted very long posts all over reddit about trump and authoritarian and facism, with lists and details and examples, and very often it all matches up to Trumps temperment, statements, and actions, and history.

[–]ZeiglerJaguar 39 points40 points  (46 children)

So, I really am of the strong persuasion that the U.S. checks and balances is the only thing keeping Trump from going full-blown African-style dictator. I honestly, truly believe that he would like nothing more than to forbid news outlets to criticize him, use the treasury to fund massive statues in his honor, jail political opponents, and have any election result that goes against him called "fraudulent" and thrown out.

I mean, he's expressed several of these desires out loud, often followed by "nah, but maybe a little..." He regularly chafes when running up against any check on his power, and heads to Twitter to whine about how "very sad" and "unfair" those checks are. And I see zero evidence that doing any of these things would result in the slightest bit of pushback or concern from his fans.

Convince me otherwise. Anyone, give me any reason to believe that Trump actually believes that he should not hold absolute power by divine right. Give me any reason to believe that's not what his fans all fetishizing a "strong" leader who "does what he wants" and "won't take any bullshit" are looking for.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He has no divine anything, he thinks "them who has gold make the rules", and has a thought process of a mayfly.

[–]Bear_duke 36 points37 points  (52 children)

Can someone TL;DW this?

[–]epote 90 points91 points  (11 children)

TL;DW: authoritarian regimes play on the natural instinct of distressed humans to seek a tribal leader to pull them out of their misery. They do that by following a few simple procedures which are: blame someone else for all the problems, ideally an “outsider” that is already a minority. Project strength by aggressive rhetoric, shows of masculinity and military might. Scare people more using conspiracy theories. Dissolve institutions by placing cronies on key positions.

[–]PM_ME_CHIMICHANGASCommunity 22 points23 points  (2 children)

That's a really good summary of the main thesis, but I think it's worth noting as well the sudden rise in regimes applying this playbook around the world, from Poland and Russia to America, to Brazil and the Philippines.

[–]epote 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Shit yeah forgot about that.

[–]PodcastThrowAway1 14 points15 points  (11 children)

Man - I don’t know if you can get a complicated subject as easily spoon fed as you would in this video. You might as well just watch it.

[–]moffattron9000 73 points74 points  (23 children)

Seriously though, A Star Is Born is fucking incredible, and it should win all of the Oscars.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (7 children)

I think Ethan Hawke has a lock on best actor with First Reformed.

[–]moffattron9000 20 points21 points  (3 children)

The current favourite of the oddsmakers right now is in order; Bradley Cooper at 37/10, Christian Bale and Viggo Mortensen at 9/2, Rami Malek at 13/2, Ryan Gosling at 21/2, and Ethan Hawke at 14/1.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Oof, those are some lousy numbers for Ethan.

[–]eoin_me_money 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Great price though if your throwing a few quid down

[–]a220599 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But the buzz around Bale has been increasing in the last two days. I think they have started screening Vice for the press.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I liked A Star is Born just as much as the next person, but I think it's worth noting that WarnerMedia owns both Warner Bros. Pictures and HBO.

[–]kutwijf 93 points94 points  (116 children)

Authoritarianism: existed in American before Trump and it actually grew under Obama if you can believe it.

Edit: I'm not a Trump supporter or a Republican or an Obama hater.

[–]vonnegutsdoodle 50 points51 points  (48 children)

sloppy tart weary hateful sugar elastic direction humorous fertile shelter this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev

[–]joshuads 55 points56 points  (22 children)

why is it okay now?

It is not. And Trump is making it worse. But it needs to be remembered when the Dems inevitably win back the presidency so that we stop giving more and more power to the president, and stop allowing the president to take it. There was a Freakanomics podcast about how the presidents remembered best in history are the ones who most ignored the legal constraints on them. That is a huge issue if you want to prevent an authoritarian leader from taking hold in the US.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If you're scared of what a president can do then it's time to question if the president doesn't have too much power.

[–]halfshadows 18 points19 points  (20 children)

when the Dems inevitably win back the presidency so that we stop giving more and more power to the president

democrats are literally the people who keep giving the presidency more and more power. giving power to government is great until someone on the other side has power. this is all the dems doing, you reap what you sow.

[–]kutwijf 5 points6 points  (17 children)

You ain't lying. But it's not all dems doing. Just the moderate/business class dems (who have a stranglehold on the party - and attack/smear anyone who doesn't toe the line, like Tulsi for instance who got behind Bernie) who are great at posturing and pretending to resist (as well as pretending to be progressive and for more than the status quo) only to give in or remain silent, and vote along side republicans. You want democrats who will discuss all the issues, properly represent you and actually stand up to Trump? Then you want dems like Bernie and AOC.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/12/the-same-democrats-who-denounce-trump-as-a-lawless-treasonous-authoritarian-just-voted-to-give-him-vast-warrantless-spying-powers/

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/11/nsa-pelosi-democrats-spy-american-section-702/

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/20/surveillance-bill-fisa-section-702-donald-trump/

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-just-handed-trump-more-domestic-surveillance-powers-they-should-ncna836836

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/25/how-nancy-pelosi-saved-the-nsa-surveillance-program/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/23/pelosis-defense-nsa-boos/2450751/

Just an example and with various sources just in case people dislike Greenwald or the Intercept.

[–]jubbergun 65 points66 points  (22 children)

Who said it was? For all the bluster about the way Trump treats the press, some of it deserved, his administration hasn't wiretapped any reporters.

[–]Aldryc 20 points21 points  (11 children)

Authoritarianism: existed in American before Trump

Duh.

It actually grew under Obama if you can believe it.

Well since you didn't give a single fact or reason to back this claim up, I really can't. I'd be happy for you to change my mind though.

[–]BoogsterSU2[S] 47 points48 points  (6 children)

This is the season finale of Last Week Tonight until February. Enjoy it while you can.

Also, Russell Crowe had received his jockstraps back.

[–]swng 4 points5 points  (2 children)

"A Star is Born is just a machine made to eat money and poop Oscars, with a buzzy soundtrack and slick production values that mine tears"