Ada Palmer

Good morning, 4/Fantasy!

This is Ada Palmer - author of Terra Ignota, also musician/composer of Viking-themed a cappella music, also anime/manga specialist, also historian of the Renaissance, radical thought, censorship, atheism & all that jazz, except it's not jazz yet in my period so we could say all that radical polyphonic a cappella that kids those days were listening to and making their elders frown and shake their heads (seriously there was a phase when a moral panic was afraid that Renaissance polyphony was ruining kids these days!)

It's still hard to believe it but "Terra Ignota" is complete at last with the whopping finale "Perhaps the Stars!" It's so fat I keep just picking it up to cuddle it and see how fat it is. (Secretly it's fatter than it looks - book 4 is fully 2x the length of even the longest of the other three, but looks not quite so big because they gave it smaller print and smaller margins!) But yes it feels like my whole universe has had a tectonic shift now that the series is complete! It's also a fun little detail that I finished writing Perhaps the Stars in October 2019, well before COVID, but many things in it resonate with our COVID experience and lots of people are shocked to hear it was written before not after. It really is just that I was thinking about universals of how crisis affects us, I wasn't expecting a real one!

So anyway, can't wait to talk with everyone in this great community again, and please ask me anything! I'll answer intermittently throughout the whole day, so keep them coming. But above all PLEASE PLEASE DO USE SPOILER TAGS FOR PERHAPS THE STARS QUESTIONS!! It hasn't been out long and supply chain things mean some bookshops don't have it yet.

I'm thinking of getting the first book "Too Like the Lightning". Is it worth it? I'm sort of intrigued, but I also don't want to read any spoilers before delving in.

Hello, all! Doing an AMA here today, so post your questions and I'll start answering in a couple hours. (For those who expected it yesterday, apologies about the calendar snag, but it will be fun today!)

Happy to answer Terra Ignota questions, also other things (history, ExUrbe blog, my Viking music, gelato, #SomethingBeautiful, etc.) but I will not say too much about book 4 this time since it comes out soon (October), and I will plan to do another AMA here a few weeks or so after it comes out so we can talk about the full series. Looking forward to both that and today!

Hello! I'm Ada Palmer, historian author and composer. I write the Terra Ignota books (Too Like the Lightning, Seven Surrenders, and most recently book 3: The Will to Battle). It's a utopia/dystopia hybrid set in the 25th century, which looks at political crisis in a world of intermingling border-less nations, with a lot of big ideas and philosophy and an 18th century narrative style. I'm also a historian of the Renaissance, teaching at the University of Chicago, and specializing in the history of radical thought, and involved at the moment in a project on the history of censorship. I write the blog , and I compose a cappella music with mythological themes especially Viking music (Sundown: Whispers of Ragnarok is my main song cycle), and I perform with Sassafrass. Looking forward to today's conversation! And let's all try to be careful with spoiler tags since book 3 has only been out a few weeks so many people haven't read it yet.

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Last year, I read the first instalment in the Terra Ignota quartet, Too Like the Lightning, and was fascinated by the imagining of the future contained in it, comprising flying cars, ’trackers’ that are worn by everyone all the time, people grouped together by ‘Hives’ of their choosing instead of geographically demarcated countries, the dismantlement of gendered pronouns, and some more imaginative and yet plausible ideas for a near-Utopian future setting.

With such an exciting setup put in place in the first book, I was excited to see how the plot and character arcs are taken ahead in the sequel, and disappointingly, I was left underwhelmed by the time I got to the end.

The most interesting character of this world is the narrator, whose background and motivations are a mystery from the beginning. There was a major revelation around the narrator in the first book, and there similarly is one in this instalment too around the midway mark, which felt satisfying, and to me, that was the high point of this book.

Like I mentioned, the imaginative setting was the high point of book one, but with that firmly settled, the shortcomings in plotting and characterisation come to the fore more easily. I could not buy the premise that the locus of the world’s power falls on someone’s lap because they offer the most refined prostitution services. That’s just absurd. Lust is a powerful temptation and has made great men fall, yes, but why all the world’s most powerful men would all prefer only one type of pleasure offered by one particular woman is unclear.

There was also an interesting subplot in the first book about a child with magical powers, and my hopes of that being explored were crashed by its abrupt ending. References to Enlightenment philosophers and ancient myths are a dime a dozen, but they didn’t necessarily synchronise with the narrative, nor did they particularly add to my enjoyment as a reader.

And lastly, the broad strokes with which humanity is painted by supposedly the most intelligent people felt forced to me. The top minds of the world (of the novel) seem to believe that human nature is innately violent and bound for war sooner or later, seemingly oblivious to the fact that human nature is not a monolith and that wars are caused not because of a predisposition to violence, but due to various geographical, economical, and political disagreements, only some of which can be put down to individual whims.

I know that this is a much-liked book and I understand why - the writing is evocative, the world-building top-notch, the twists and revelations all seem well-earned, but I really couldn’t buy the central core of the plot.

November's theme was Utopian sci-fi.

There will be a spoiler friendly post on or about November 15th.

Mycroft Canner is a convict. For his crimes he is required, as is the custom of the 25th century, to wander the world being as useful as he can to all he meets. Carlyle Foster is a sensayer--a spiritual counselor in a world that has outlawed the public practice of religion, but which also knows that the inner lives of humans cannot be wished away.

The world into which Mycroft and Carlyle have been born is as strange to our 21st-century eyes as ours would be to a native of the 1500s. It is a hard-won utopia built on technologically-generated abundance, and also on complex and mandatory systems of labeling all public writing and speech. What seem to us normal gender distinctions are now distinctly taboo in most social situations. And most of the world's population is affiliated with globe-girdling clans of the like-minded, whose endless economic and cultural competition is carefully managed by central planners of inestimable subtlety. To us it seems like a mad combination of heaven and hell. To them, it seems like normal life.

And in this world, Mycroft and Carlyle have stumbled on the wild card that may destablize the system: the boy Bridger, who can effortlessly make his wishes come true. Who can, it would seem, bring inanimate objects to life...

I’m not sure where to even start with this book – I’m not sure a review can do it justice. I picked it up because I heard about the 18th century references and it turned out to be one of the craziest, best, wildest, most cursed rides involving a lot of quite uncharacteristic incoherent screaming. It has to be experienced to be believed. As hard as it was to tell from my commentary while I was reading it, I think I might have a new favourite series. Definitely not for everyone, but very up multiple of my niche alleys.

I struggle to open history’s inner doors to you, to teach you how those who made this new era think and feel. In my age we have come anew to see history as driven not by DNA and economics, but by man. And woman. And so must you.

Mycroft Canner is a convict, sentenced to doing public service work to atone for the terrible crime he comitted and is also secretly helping to take care of a child named Bridger who seems to possess reality-altering powers. And this is as much as I can say without spoilers. And even if I tried to tell you, it would make no sense. Really, it’s best if you head into this book knowing as little about the plot as possible, just strap yourself in for the wild ride and go.

Will you know what’s going on? No, you will not. Mycroft’s narration is paradoxical in that he infodumps a lot and yet in a lot of ways says very little, since the main assumption is that while the reader may not know all the players, they already know how it all ends. Ever since , I have been intrigued by unreliable narrators who don’t necessarily lie to the reader, so that was definitely a point in its favour. Besides, I have always loved “I will tell you what really happened” as a framing device. I knew going in that he was going to trick me, but I wanted so bad to see how and I was not disappointed. There are a lot of twists and every single one of them feels fully earned – the ending in particular floored me. A perfect hook for the next book without being a cliffhanger.

“Anger doesn’t help. Men write books like that because they want history to remember, mourn, and make sure that sort of tragedy won’t happen again.” His voice was gentle, like an abdicated king happy that his words are words again and not commands. “Most of the characters in that story were willing to die for what they believed in. It’s a good bet that, given the choice, they’d be willing to suffer what they suffered in the book if it would insure that you in the real world don’t make the same mistakes.”

Another thing to note about the narration is that it’s written in a style imitating the one of the 18th century, very descriptive, somewhat flowery, often tell over show, and the fourth wall is nonexistent. But despite breaking every single modern narrative rule, it somehow worked for meand grabbed me immediately, even if I can all too easily see how it would annoy someone else.

And since I mentioned the 18th century – yes, there’s a lot of references as well, perhaps a little overexplained, but often in the most cursed possible places that left me reeling as if I have been hit in the head with a brick. If you know about Voltaire, it will be bad enough. Sadly there were none of the more obscure references I hoped for (thinking mostly of a certain set of altered, semi-novelised letters), but regardless. And if you know about Marquis de Sade, it will be worse. Much worse. Copious swearing ensued. In a way, I am very glad I didn’t read the book in 2018 when I got the ebook and only did it now, after several months of obsession with the 18th century. Have a spoiler-free example:

To temper your confusion, reader, I shall not call Rousseau “she,” but I am tempted.

The worldbuilding is also some of the most intriguing and unique I’ve ever seen. Since it takes place on far-future Earth, the political situation and the culture are completely different – everyone being referred to as “they” (except by Mycroft as narrator, who uses “he” or “she” but based on his own logic) and gender being seen as something intimate/sexual being the most prominent example. Since I love well-done cultural worldbuilding, this is yet another point in its favour.

Man is more ambitious than patient. When we realize we cannot split a true atom, cannot conquer the whole Earth, we redefine the terms to fake our victory, check off our boxes, and pretend the deed is done.

And then the themes and the characters. The exploration of flaws in what sounds like a near-utopian society on paper is probably the main focus and incredibly well done. Because of Mycroft’s situation, we also get a huge focus on whether people who have committed terrible crimes can…not atone or redeem themselves, exactly, but perhaps be rehabilitated. Whether he’s likable or not is immaterial to me – he’s interesting, and that suffices. The other characters are no less fascinating or eccentric and I can’t wait to spend more time with them.

In short, onwards to the next book!

Enjoyment: 5/5
Execution: 5/5

Recommended to: fellow fans of weird books, anyone looking for something with a lot of twists, 18th century enthusiasts (though, like me, you might be disappointed if you expect any obscure references), those who like interesting cultural worldbuilding, those who want a versatile Bingo book
Not recommended to: those who don’t like a heavy-handed narrative style, fourth wall breaking, or the narrator winking at and toying with the reader

Bingo squares: First Person POV, New To You Author, Mystery Plot, Revenge-Seeking Character (or at least, I feel like Tully Mardi qualifies), Cat Squasher, Genre Mashup, Debut, arguably Found Family given the standard family structure in the world

Content warnings: rape, descriptions of extreme violence

More reviews on my blog, .

Disclaimer: I'm not a prolific sci fi reader.

I started my foray into serious sci-fi through the half way of last year. Before that I'd only read some Arthur C. Clarke, Le Guin, Herbert and Dick. Since then I've read a few titles mostly from recommendations, Hyperion, The Book of the New Sun, A fire Upon the Deep, some Iain M. Banks, Reynolds, Tchaikovsky, Stephenson, Octavia Butler, Liu, Strugatsky etc.

A friend suggested Terra Ignota to me. I finished the first one last night and now I'm downright confused. I don't know if it's a really good book or it's just pretending to be. Palmer's prose is fresh and hits just the right spots, the characters are well realised, the plot is alright(?) I guess. Certainly Palmer is an author who knows exactly what she is writing about. I like the narrative structure of the book, mainly because I feel there's some parallels between Mycroft Canner and Severian(Book of the New Sun).

My main disconnect with the books stems from the fact that I feel the author is tackling too many themes at once: gender, theology, war, Utopia, the " Art imitating Life" trope, surveillance state, criminal rehabilitation, childhood trauma, linguistics, history, democracy etc. At what point does it all become too much? Some times it felt like I was doing some research for my dissertation instead of reading a sci fi book. I like books that are dense and demand all your focus, nothing wrong with that as long as there is a pay off. Going through this book felt like a chore at times and I had to constantly look up historical references and personalities.

But despite it all I kind of liked the book, but I'm not sure if I should be delving into the rest of the series without some assurances, especially since I have a fat stack of TBR on my shelf right now.

So anyone in this community who has read the whole thing, give me some insights as to whether I should plod on or just drop the whole thing. People who didn't like the series I'd value your inputs as well.

Thanks.

Last year, I read the first instalment in the Terra Ignota quartet, Too Like the Lightning, and was fascinated by the imagining of the future contained in it, comprising flying cars, ’trackers’ that are worn by everyone all the time, people grouped together by ‘Hives’ of their choosing instead of geographically demarcated countries, the dismantlement of gendered pronouns, and some more imaginative and yet plausible ideas for a near-Utopian future setting.

With such an exciting setup put in place in the first book, I was excited to see how the plot and character arcs are taken ahead in the sequel, and disappointingly, I was left underwhelmed by the time I got to the end.

The most interesting character of this world is the narrator, whose background and motivations are a mystery from the beginning. There was a major revelation around the narrator in the first book, and there similarly is one in this instalment too around the midway mark, which felt satisfying, and to me, that was the high point of this book.

Like I mentioned, the imaginative setting was the high point of book one, but with that firmly settled, the shortcomings in plotting and characterisation come to the fore more easily. I could not buy the premise that the locus of the world’s power falls on someone’s lap because they offer the most refined prostitution services. That’s just absurd. Lust is a powerful temptation and has made great men fall, yes, but why all the world’s most powerful men would all prefer only one type of pleasure offered by one particular woman is unclear.

There was also an interesting subplot in the first book about a child with magical powers, and my hopes of that being explored were crashed by its abrupt ending. References to Enlightenment philosophers and ancient myths are a dime a dozen, but they didn’t necessarily synchronise with the narrative, nor did they particularly add to my enjoyment as a reader.

And lastly, the broad strokes with which humanity is painted by supposedly the most intelligent people felt forced to me. The top minds of the world (of the novel) seem to believe that human nature is innately violent and bound for war sooner or later, seemingly oblivious to the fact that human nature is not a monolith and that wars are caused not because of a predisposition to violence, but due to various geographical, economical, and political disagreements, only some of which can be put down to individual whims.

I know that this is a much-liked book and I understand why - the writing is evocative, the world-building top-notch, the twists and revelations all seem well-earned, but I really couldn’t buy the central core of the plot.

Wow. I have loved this series from the start. The narrator is deeply compelling, the setting is wonderfully familiar yet unique. I can honestly say this is one of the few books I've ever read that had me constantly on edge, having no idea what would happen next. I was constantly surprised by what happened, but not in a way that seemed like a gimmick.

For those curious, the Terra Ignota series takes place several hundred years into Earth's future. A world where many countries have dissolved, and people instead join Hives that don't have geographic locations, but are people united by shared ideals. A flying car system has effectively made borders and distance obsolete, as you could be anywhere on Earth in 30 minutes. And so the world has changed. But that's just the setting. The story itself is full of political and personal intrigue, stuffed with philosophy, allusions to the classics and poetic, carefully chosen prose.

Perhaps The Stars, the last book in the series, finished it marvelously. I didn't want it to end, I cried at multiple times. I felt so fully immersed in the book, I often had trouble coming back to reality when I had to put the book down.

Hello, all! Happy to be here to discuss "Too Like the Lightning" now that book 2 "Seven Surrenders" is about to come out. I'm also happy to talk about other things I work on. I write the history/philosophy/fandom blog ExUrbe.com, and I work as a historian researching European History (mostly Italy at the Vatican Library & in Florence). I teach at U Chicago. I also design educational LARPs & games. And I also work with the anime & manga industry, writing introductions and essays about anime/manga, doing publicity work for publishers like ADV and FUNimation and VIZ, especially on Osamu Tezuka and early post-WWII manga.

I'm just now finishing up The Will to Battle, the third entry in The Terra Ignota series by Ada Palmer and it is mind bending with plenty of 'weird' to go around. It's like mix of Gene Wolfe with Greek tragedy/philosophy and very much a kitchen sink type book in the way a Nick Harkaway novel may be.

There's a child-like gods, a serial killer turned universal servant, utopian ideas, gender examination, a doll-like assassin, a technological witch, Achilles, etc etc. These books are STUFFED and DENSE.

I haven't seen anyone talk about them but would consider them weird sci-fi for sure. It's hard for me to describe it bc there's so much happening but generally it's our world set in the 2400's which is highly influenced by the Renaissance wherein the Utopian society is on the brink of war. Fascinating execution though.

Ada Palmer recently to that she will be doing an AMA in on January 11th. hasn't confirmed their schedule yet, so I don't know what time the AMA will be, and I want to make sure everyone has the chance to ask any burning questions they have! So post your questions, brainstorm things to ask, and we'll make sure that everything in this thread is asked during the AMA if users aren't able to make it.

Edit: has confirmed that the AMA will be on the 11th. Time TBA.

I've listened to 5 episodes so far, and they're great. Walton and Palmer and their guests go into some really interesting deep dives into the craft of writing, history and human culture, gender-bending manga, charting rock erosion on Mars, all sorts of neat stuff. Plus there's only one episode every month or so, and they've only put out 13 so far, so it's not an overwhelming backlog.

Palmer occasionally mentions research she's doing for some future writing, which maybe-could-possibly be for her Viking novels? She's talked about species with different coloured blood, an organism that might pass on memories if you eat it. Tantalizing if true!

Even if I'm dead wrong, or this stuff never makes it into the new books, the podcast is good. I'd recommend it.

So I've picked this up out of my Mt TBR at random, knowing very little about it before reading. I'm 33% of the way through and I'm having the most bizarre experience with it. I absolutely love the voice, the writing is fantastic, but I haven't got a scooby what is actually going on.

Every scene is extraordinarily well written, it's lively and painted with fantastic details. I have a great sense of the characters personalities as they appear. The narrator's voice is glorious. I think I'm getting to grips with the world building. I haven't minded the philosophical discussion parts so far (skimmed over some of them tbh) But the plot? No idea. Not a clue. What is happening? Don't ask me.

It's most odd, a huge part of me just wants to put the book down, especially as Unconquerable Sun arrived on my Kindle yesterday which I'm desperate to read, but I know if I drop it now I won't ever go back to it, and a perverse part of me needs to keep going even though I'm finding it a frustratingly slow read. I am quick to drop books that aren't working for me these days (life is too short man!) yet I can't quite bring myself to do it here.

It's reminding me a little of Anathem in its heavy-going, not-going-to-hold-your-hand, dense start and that was worth the investment. I've also read Jo Walton's review of it which is gushing so I think I will plough on. This is either going to be a mind blowingly excellent book or one I'm really annoyed I've invested so much into.

Has anyone else read this? How have you found it?

I'm not looking for spoilers, just curious to get a sense of people's reactions :-)

Ada Palmer now has , where you can listen in advance to episodes of her upcoming podcast with Jo Walton!

...we'll discuss craft of writing, history, food, reading, books, fantasy and science fiction, research, science, why we both love Florence, and other cool topics, with a range of guests, some fellow genre fiction writers, and some others.

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Hi,

Question in the title, I've read a little bit of Sci-Fi but these two series are, in my humble opinion, really good (original, intelligent, addictive) ! Especially Terra Ignota.What should I read after "The broken earth trilogy" by N.K Jemisin and the "Terra Ignota" series by Ada Palmer? So I'm looking for well written Sci-fi. Any thought?

Ps: I apologize about my poor English, non-native speaker here.