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Bitcoin Cash is Terrifying (medium.com)

submitted by jonald_fyookballElectron Cash Wallet Developer

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[–]Pink-Fish 140 points141 points  (74 children)

The point that rings loudest is r/BTC doesn't censor. I actually liked Segwit and lightning but the censor issue makes you rethink it all.

[–][deleted]  (19 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Inthewirelain 59 points60 points  (3 children)

    Most are in favour of its development as an option. Not as THE scaling solution. I am fine with LNs and centralised hubs as an option, but I don't think it should be pushed as the path of light.

    [–]KoKansei 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    Exactly. /u/tippr tip 0.005 BCC

    [–]Inthewirelain 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    Thank you very much kind stranger.

    [–]tippr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    u/Inthewirelain, you've received 0.005 BCC (3.39 USD)!

    How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
    Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

    [–]torusJKL 20 points21 points  (0 children)

    2nd layer options are welcome but that need to compete with the 1st layer fairly.

    [–]LuxuriousThrowAway 15 points16 points  (6 children)

    Because without a robust first layer, you're building a house that will suck if not fall.

    [–]tippr 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    u/Pink-Fish, you've received 0.0073506 BCC (5 USD)!

    How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
    Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It all has to do with profit and control. The big businesses that are invested in Bitcoin Core like to own the bitcoin layer and have all the people that want to use bitcoin as a currency move to a higher layer. This gives them the most control and so the biggest chance to make a profit.

    [–]BitcoinKicker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Most people in favor of larger blocks fully support deployment of the lightning network and other second layer solutions

    Most people think you made that up... What are you basing that statement on? I doubt there's any truth to it.

    [–]MCCP 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I'm a people. I like all cool algorithms. LN is rad AF. SW is a marginal but cool hack. Big blocks are a no brainier necessity.

    load more comments (1 reply)

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      There's a link for the moderation logs on the sidebar...

      load more comments (8 replies)

        [–]_Cheeseontoast 16 points17 points  (37 children)

        I only just started learning about crypto currency. If bitcoin cash is superior, what happens to people who own bitcoin core currency? Are these two ways to exchange the same currency (like two currencies both backed by gold), or is this like someone that bought an HD DVD player in a world that ends up using blu-ray?

        [–]grandestufa 11 points12 points  (5 children)

        The thing you have to remember here, is that BCC and BTC could end up turning out far more like Betamax and VHS than Blu Ray and HD DVD. Betamax was the clearly superior technology (like BCC), but VHS won due to huge advantages in distribution rights and content deals (like BTC).

        Now, that example is purely allegorical. The crypto currency wars are still very much being fought. Any currency currently extant, or in development might win. Looking at crypto currencies as anything other than a risk/speculative asset is potentially dangerous for your financial security.

        [–]bill_mcgonigle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        Yeah, but multi-format tape decks were rare and multicoin wallets are common. Betamax's length problem is not dissimilar to 1MB blocks.

        [–]_Cheeseontoast 3 points4 points  (3 children)

        Your last sentence is really where I have pretty much fallen on it all at this point. I'm not trying to troll, but from my perspective crypto currency looks a lot more like beanie babies than a currency. Which disappoints me because there are a lot of things right with the idea of crypto currency.

        [–]grandestufa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Definitely. In the end a low value, high volume (like Siacoin levels of volume) might end up winning. For the amount of transactions that happen in the world each day, most blockchains are simply too slow to really be usable right now.

        [–]drippingupside 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        If I believed this I would leave. Why are you here?

        [–]_Cheeseontoast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I found a link to this post on the front page. I read the article and had a question. Even though that is my opinion currently I am always interested to learn more and open to having my opinion changed.

        [–]Teru-Sama 6 points7 points  (23 children)

        The latter example is more accurate.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (22 children)

        Guess I'm moving all my money over to bitcoin cash tomorrow once my SLOW ASS transaction clears. That's if coinbase isn't some kind of scam and just gonna steal all my money. I really should have read more before investing :(

        [–]BlackBeltBob 14 points15 points  (16 children)

        I would advise you to do more in-depth investigation, and to not invest based on the opinion of a random person or group on the internet.

        Even if the comparison to blu-ray and hd-dvd is apt, then we still don't know what branch of bitcoin is blu-ray, and what branch will turn out to be hd-dvd.

        Also note that high fees are currently a thing of the past on the original chain; transactions with 1sat/byte are confirming within 10 minutes. This directly contradicts Jonald's story.

        [–]michelfo 5 points6 points  (10 children)

        The fees are lower now because there are less transactions on the Bitcoin chain and also because it is slightly more profitable for the miners to mine BTC at the moment. Fees will grow again the next time BCH becomes more profitable to mine.

        I doubt very much the high fees are behind us. They just come in waves.

        [–]smurfkiller013 0 points1 point  (8 children)

        Fees only rise because blocks are full. We're a long ways from being there again, and even then, we'll just up the block size again

        Edit: clarified not being a small blocker

        [–]toopow 0 points1 point  (7 children)

        ... isnt the entire reason for the split is core wont increase block size?

        [–]smurfkiller013 0 points1 point  (6 children)

        Yes

        [–]toopow 0 points1 point  (5 children)

        So you are not making sense. Fees are huge and btc cash people wanted to increase the blocksize, and core people said no way never...

        [–]smurfkiller013 0 points1 point  (4 children)

        So we forked and did it ourselves

        [–]Sovereign_Curtis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        The fees are lower now because there are less transactions on the Bitcoin chain

        Here's my anecdote. I used to do maybe a dozen BTC transactions a week. Now I try to do zero.

        [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I'll probably just gamble on both then. I mean why not, since I'm treating it like gambling and not investing.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

        Also note that high fees are currently a thing of the past on the original chain

        The original chain can do three transactions per second. VISA can do 24,000 per second during the holiday season. The original chain can never have low fees if it ever actually becomes widely used. The old chain's present developers not only anticipate this, they want and desire this (high fees) in order for their model to be successful. source Bitcoin Cash is the solution. It brings bitcoin back.

        [–]dooglus 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        If BTC can do 3 transactions per second with its 1 MB blocks then BCH can do 24 transactions per second with its 8 MB blocks.

        To match the 24k per second Visa figure you mentioned, BCH would need 1000 times bigger blocks, or 8 GB blocks. At 144 blocks per day, that's 1152 GB per day, or one new 1 TB hard drive every day.

        BTC's solution is to use the exponential growth available by using off-chain transactions on layer 2 rather than naively increasing the blocksize limit in a vain attempt to match demand for onchain transactions.

        Maybe think some more about BCH being "the solution". At best it's an ugly hack that kicks the can down the road (but not very far).

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        I'm not against layer 2 solutions. But there is no good argument for not raising the limit to allow more than 3 transactions per second for the time being. Core doesn't even support segwit 2x. It's laughable. And if you want to talk about an ugly hack... (segwit)

        [–]peanutbananacake 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Yeah I totally agree, don't fall in the confirmation bias trap!

        [–]Yorn2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        You definitely should have read more if you're ultimately deciding on BCH.

        [–][deleted]  (3 children)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Either shills or liars, but a TON of people seem to not be able to transfer their coins out.

          [–]Jonathan_the_Nerd 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          If you had coins on Coinbase during the split, you can't withdraw BCH. They're gong to add that capability on January 1st.

          Also, their customer service can be horrible. Go to /r/coinbase and you can see complaints.

          I've had nothing but positive experiences with Coinbase. But some people have had huge problems.

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Oh yep. Not quite what I would call a scam though. I've had no issues. But I hope to god I never need their support.

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          To answer your question, if you only own the chain that doesn't become successful, you are out of luck, and will lose everything, just like the last example you gave. If you want to be neutral, own an equal number of each. I believe the original chain has been irrevocably compromised. The legacy chain's direction and the team that has taken control of it represent the opposite of everything that attracted me to bitcoin years ago. But to a newbie; always be comfortable with the possibility of losing everything before you invest in something. Personally, I can afford and am OK financially if Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash were to fail. Also, I would consider this to be a very strange and potentially riskier time to get involved in all this if you are new.

          [–]bitmeme 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Right now you can exchange bitcoin for bitcoin cash and vice versa. They are two separate currencies. Their price will depend on their popularity/use

          [–]BlackBeltBob 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          This article, thus sub, /r/bitcoin, and this reply are all fundamentally biassed by their own opinions. If you asked this question in the /r/bitcoin sub, you could get an answer identical to /u/Teru-Sama's reply. The opinion about which coin would be HD-DVD and which would be blu-ray would depend on who you asked though...

          In the end, the market will go to whatever cryptocoin has the best combination of robustness, decentralization, adoption, and security. One side of the fence is saying: "we don't want big blocks (yet) because it will hurt decentralization", the other says: "we want to remain true to Satoshi's original vision".

          In the end, it will be the market that decides what coin is chosen as bitcoin, and the other will pass into obscurity (barring other innovations obv.). Look at the big picture. Weigh in hard facts and discount the value of opinions or unproven theories. Stay on relevant topics, and don't be turned away from them by FUD spread by either side. Look at usage statistics and trends. Crypto is still in its infancy, and buying crypto is much like investing. Don't invest in things you don't completely understand or see any future in.

          [–]Saiyasat 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          I do not disagree with the argument that the market will eventually determine the future of all coins, but I wonder if the evolving framework of cryptocurrency in general will not change to accept both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash for different purposes. It seems to me that Bitcoin is evolving into a store of value or a settlement layer and away from a medium of exchange, whereas Bitcoin Cash along with Litecoin and possibly other less recognizable currency coins are designed primarily to be mediums of exchange.

          Bitcoin has become so valuable (expensive) and speculative (based a great deal on its deflationary nature) that most people are unwilling to actually use it out of fear that they will lose future gains. Additionally, these same characteristics make it less acceptable to merchants because the valuation fluctuates so much that setting prices is problematic. In a way, Bitcoin Cash will eventually suffer from these issues regardless of transaction speed and cost because it will also be deflationary. That has yet to become an issue, but it certainly could.

          In the end, both might prove to be a store of value upon which other currencies, systems, and mediums of exchange are based in much the same way as gold was used. In this case, I predict the coins with massive amounts in existence (don't laugh, but things like Doge or Linda) might become the real mediums of exchange because their large numbers in circulation will hamper speculation and therefore fluctuation making them acceptable to both consumers and merchants. In the end, if the market is really to compete with fiat, will not be those of us who are sharing on this sub, but the mothers and fathers and grandparents who are shopping for groceries who will not be interested in anything other than how to predict the price of bread from day to day.

          I am still encouraged by these events, however, because even if some of these coins become settlement layers or stores of value, they will still be more transparent and fair than fiat. Cryptocurrency, in any form, is still more real than the fake paper printed by reserve banks.

          [–]_Cheeseontoast 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Thanks for the detailed reply!

          [–]0xHUEHUE 0 points1 point  (1 child)

          You should try to set up a node

          [–]l337dexter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          A BCC node? Is it that hard?

          [–]Maemon 43 points44 points  (0 children)

          once again, great post! :)

          [–]MULTIVERSE-SPACIEN 60 points61 points  (3 children)

          Thankyou for the post. I could not believe that Bitcoin Cash haters created an entire fake Github repo, this is pure evil and goes way beyond normal disagreement behavior. Appears their fear is real and will do anything to slow Bitcoin Cash rapid advance for mass adaption and real store of value. Stay strong as truth is empowering and people’s Bitcoin Cash has no frills, no additions, no gimmicks, no old world corporate greed and control, just pure, original and perfect.

          [–][deleted]  (12 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]ErdoganTalk 16 points17 points  (11 children)

            slow reader? snail on!

            [–][deleted]  (10 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]BlackDeath3 35 points36 points  (1 child)

              A paragraph a day keeps the doctorate away.

              [–]boyshaveice 5 points6 points  (7 children)

              u/tippr tip 0.0001 bcc

              [–]tippr 5 points6 points  (3 children)

              u/brianb13, you've received 0.0001 BCC (0.07 USD)!

              How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
              Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

              [–]DekSingburi -1 points0 points  (2 children)

              $0.07 for buy a plastic bag.

              [–]williaminlondon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

              A plastic bag a day... I'll get my coat.

              [–]bill_mcgonigle 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Today a plastic bag, in five years a new Tesla.

              [–]smurfkiller013 2 points3 points  (1 child)

              Uncle Pennybags right there

              [–]boyshaveice 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              hahaha

              [–][deleted]  (2 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]LuxuriousThrowAway 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                That is a bizarre good point.

                [–]tippr 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                u/jonald_fyookball, you've received 0.02212915 BCC (15 USD)!

                How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                [–]vNocturnus 7 points8 points  (5 children)

                So as someone who got interested in cryptocurrency recently (and so far I mostly just have ETH), I didn't actually know that the forked version of Bitcoin was staying more true to the original vision of the coin. But based on that information and my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the crypto market, would it be reasonable to expect a "reversal of fortunes," so to speak, between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash? That is, could we expect Bitcoin Cash to see incredible gains and even catch up with/take over Bitcoin Core's position in the market? Bitcoin Core has gotten close to 5000 USD/coin recently. It was under 3k USD hardly a month ago, before the fork. It would seem that, perhaps, having all of the "elite" investors and financial institutions backing it is good for the health of the coin and probably makes it much less likely to rapidly or significantly lose value. But if Bitcoin Cash is the currency that will most likely be used "on the streets" and in the average person's day-to-day life, could that be enough on its own for it to truly compete with Bitcoin Core?

                [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]anthson 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  I doubt Core will intervene with any kind of changes in some last-ditch effort to bring BTC past the stone age. You've got two kinds of Core people: Fiat nuts and speculators. The Fiat nuts will just jump onto BCC the way they jumped onto BTC, and the community's fight against banking cartels will start all over again. The speculators will be gone by that point, having cashed out and left all the bag holders in the dirt.

                  [–]miles37 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Core's likely change in the face of the coming hypercashenisation would be to switch to a different hashing algorithm in order to break away from direct competition with Bitcoin Cash for miners and thus spare them from the death spiral, allowing them to dwindle away slowly instead.

                  They would become like Napoleon with his mock court on the Island of St. Helena.

                  [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                  It's important to realize that BCC can be better and truer to the original vision and still lose. BTC Core has been the biggest player on the scene for a while and that can't be discounted. There's no clear victor here so place your chips if you're gonna.

                  [–]buddhaghosa_the_wise -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                  No, the market is already speaking, listen to what it says.

                  [–]NilacTheGrim 25 points26 points  (8 children)

                  Here’s Why They Are Terrified of Bitcoin Cash: They are afraid because they know they cannot compete on merit.

                  Exactly. Too true.

                  They are scared because Bitcoin Cash is starting to see everyday use in the real world… even though it is barely a month old.

                  This one gave me goosebumps. It's only been a month and change. Its success is astonishing.

                  [–]todu 14 points15 points  (7 children)

                  If we would really want to sabotage the project of the enemy (Blockstream and the Bitcoin Core project that they took control over) we should infiltrate them and plant a 6 transactions per second limit into their software. Oh wait, they already did that to themselves. It's like competing with a somewhat retarded competitor. Not really a fair competition but sure, we'll accept their challenge. May the least retarded currency win.

                  [–]rowdy_beaver 8 points9 points  (0 children)

                  The word 'retard' also means 'to slow down'. Core has been very successful at slowing down Bitcoin's growth.

                  Bitcoin Cash took the training wheels off. Real growth can continue.

                  [–]NilacTheGrim 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                  "Never interrupt your enemy when they are busy making a mistake." -- Sun Tzu

                  [–]todu 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                  I agree that the advice from the quote is good advice but I don't think that Sun Tzu said that. I googled it and skimmed this article. It seems like Napoleon said that and a few others before him but Sun Tzu was not mentioned, at least not in that article.

                  [–]NilacTheGrim 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                  Ha ha.. I read here on reddit it was him and assumed it to be correct. Goes to show you. I guess the old adage is true:

                  "85% of quotes you read in online memes are misattributed" - Mark Twain

                  [–]todu 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                  Yeah there were good odds that Sun Tzu would've said something like that. But his quotes tend to be more directly related to war and combat as far as I can remember (I read like one or two pages of them many years ago.) so I thought that I should google that quote just to be sure.

                  But Napoleon was very successful at warring too so that quote should be considered thoughtfully anyway. It's a useful and good quote, I agree.

                  [–]NilacTheGrim 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                  Now that I think about it you're right -- all the quotes by Sun Tzu that I remember are very specific to the technicalities of war -- but you can read into them and apply them to life.

                  [–]todu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  Agreed. His book was surprisingly popular among mid to higher managers at a previous company I used to work for and it was just a normal company doing ordinary business stuff and not at all related to any kind of wars or anything like that.

                  [–][deleted]  (4 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]rowdy_beaver 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      US$0.005 (half a penny). If you're feeling really crazy you can pay $0.25, but that's just being generous to the miners.

                      [–]Phucknhell 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      Problem is, when the next wave of adoption happens, will people be paying through the nose again like before? its all good to say the transactions are cheap now in a sluggish period...

                      [–]anthson 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      That's the great part about the 8mb blocks. Cash mined its first full block during a massive spam transaction attack a few weeks ago. It took hardly any time at all to clear the transaction backlog and return to normal. That same attack on the Bitcoin network would have crippled it (though it would have cost way more to carry out thanks to high fees).

                      Transactions will remain cheap and fast even if market cap and usage levels for BCC were to match those for BTC tomorrow. Likely well beyond that point, too. Nobody at this point can argue the block size increase did not work as intended.

                      The only argument left is whether a hard fork block size increase is a viable long-term solution for scaling. If we're pushing for worldwide peer-to-peer electronic cash (i.e. White Paper), 8mb is not enough and we'll have to fork again. And again. Is that healthy? I'm still personally not convinced either way, but there are good arguments for either side.

                      My biggest issue with second-layer solutions is the on ramp. Even if the second layer is great, we still have to use the blockchain to get people onto the second layer. I've yet to read about any solution to this problem that does not involve a block size increase.

                      [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                      August 1st 2017 was Bitcoins Independence Day. We stand on the technically correct side of history. Technically Correct is the best kind of correct. The battles may still be ongoing but the war is already won.

                      [–]bitcoinjesuz 24 points25 points  (0 children)

                      Way to go Jonald!

                      [–]BitttBurger 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                      "People do not WANT a settlement layer controlled by large financial institutions, corporate interests, and government bureaucrats… and they certainly don’t want high fees and slow confirmations. Transcending these things was the whole POINT of Bitcoin in the first place."

                      Preach.

                      [–]jpcrypto 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                      When I first started in Bitcoin I was primarily attracted by the technology, fast transactions, and low fees. As Bitcoin progressed (digressed?) all three of these items has either stagnated or moved backwards. Bitcoin has become less of a transaction mechanism for the masses and more of a play-toy for the elite few that would rather pay more than less and have slow instead of fast (basically cutting off their noses to spite their faces).

                      I have switched to Bitcoin Cash and will never wonder about my decision or look back over my shoulder at my decision to switch.

                      [–]hnrycly 12 points13 points  (1 child)

                      Damn, dope

                      [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                      Actually, this post is not any form of drug. In fact, it's an article filled with words and sentences.

                      [–]ZakMcRofl 13 points14 points  (1 child)

                      How certain are you about the troll interpretation? Website hijack attempts and posting of manipulated fake repos sound scary to me as a BCH and electron cash user.

                      Even if it was trolls and not malicious attackers, your reaction seems immature. Critizising the way you handle yourself as a developer/maintainer (no https originally, unsigned binaries, website under fake name, having to ask whether you should take action against people creating fake githubs) or critizising the software you wrote does not in any way attack bitcoin cash as a whole.

                      Your actions do however make it hard to trust your software, to be honest. Which is what I took from the posts you percieved to be troll attacks.

                      I recommend getting a code signing certificate from https://codesigncert.com/ if you are serious about security based development. Yes it costs money (around $60 a year), but you could ask for donations for that or see it as an investment into your portfolio as a security software developer.

                      Another recommendation is to never take such attacks lightly. Treat them as malicious attacks even if you suspect it could be a harmless troll.

                      [–]ahowell8 10 points11 points  (0 children)

                      Interesting read. However the main argument in the article is emotional which invalidates quite a bit of it for me. The censorship thing is ugly, but so is manipulation which I feel is what happens here - a lot. I wanna believe, just not convinced.

                      /bracing for downvote impact for being completely honest which reddit never likes.

                      [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                      Great article. The fear is palpable after a stunt like that. What were the github user accounts behind the fake repo?

                      [–]Anamech 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                      The more I start to understand blockchain, bitcoin and crypto's in general. The more my opinion is shifting towords Bitcoin Cash. The only reason I use Bitcoin is because I can cash out to fiat from bitcoin(not in a position to hodl) The whole scaling debate is serious, but fucking hell....This could destroy a lot of confidence in the market for new users that does not understand these things or who are not willing to do some research!

                      Honestly, I am in support of whoever has the fastest, most secure and cheapest network. Now, Big Blocks, Segwit(2x) and LN can accomplish this BUT I am much more in favour of ON-chain solutions....These additional layers and whatnot is not what bitcoin is supposed to be according to me with my VERY limited knowledge.

                      [–]miles37 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      SegWit is not required to facilitate second layer scaling experiments such as the LN-theory anyway: there are other options are available (including FlexTrans), which unlike SegWit are not damaging to Bitcoin.

                      [–]Anamech 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      That's just the thing! Why damage it when you have better alternative solutions.

                      [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

                      I never want to choose side, but this sucks. I will need to reportion my investments if this keeps going on

                      [–]williaminlondon 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                      This has been going on for years, to many people. It's proven.

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                      I know they spread lies and use misinformation all the time, but attacks like this make me feel uneasy. If this is truely r/bitcoin doing, there will be a bloody drama ahead and my bet is on Bitcoin (Cash)

                      [–]williaminlondon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      It is Blockstream's doing. There are many documents and sources that regularly come back on this sub.

                      The documents give loads of details, people corroborating etc.

                      Since Blockstream's and Core's mildly psycopathic behaviour is so critical to Bitcoin Cash, Segwit2X and a fair proportion of the industry, it is regularly talked about here. You won't be disappointed.

                      Here are two that were recently posted:

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/6yj0hj/an_apology_to_mike_hearn/

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/6yj4d1/the_resolution_of_the_bitcoin_experiment/

                      The extent of their misdeeds is so vast it takes some time to digest it all. As I said, loads of reading required.

                      [–]Phucknhell 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      You never know which horse is going to win, so best bet is to duplicate the jockeys on both

                      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      That's why I call it a bet

                      [–]bitcoyn 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                      Good stuff! Thanks for the work you do.

                      [–]butthurtsoothcream 5 points6 points  (9 children)

                      keep doing what you do, history won't be fooled

                      /u/tippr tip $0.50

                      [–]tippr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                      u/jonald_fyookball, you've received 0.00073626 BCC (0.5 USD)!

                      How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                      Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                      [–]Vincents_keyboard -1 points0 points  (7 children)

                      A tip a day keeps the paid shills away

                      :)

                      [–]KoKansei 1 point2 points  (6 children)

                      Now watch as the "downvotes = censorship" idiots also try and claim that "tipping = shill payments"

                      [–]BeijingBitcoinsModerator 1 point2 points  (4 children)

                      Keep up the great shilling!

                      /u/tippr $3

                      [–]KoKansei 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      LOL!

                      It's shillception! /u/tippr $1.50

                      [–]tippr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      u/BeijingBitcoins, you've received 0.00222137 BCC (1.5 USD)!

                      How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                      Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                      [–]tippr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      u/KoKansei, you've received 0.00443226 BCC (3 USD)!

                      How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                      Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                      [–]jpcrypto 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Now watch as the "downvotes = censorship" idiots also try and claim that "tipping = shill payments"

                      Getting my popcorn and a comfy chair now!

                      [–]H0dl 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                      i like scaring the shit outta them.

                      [–]HurlSly 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                      Thank you Jonald for your amazing work !

                      [–]instatrashed 1 point2 points  (7 children)

                      Bitcoin cash is only terrifying if you don't realize it's full potential. BCC is much more functional and useful in terms of payments, fees, etc. People still don't even have all of their Bitcoin cash accessible. Wait until that happens and you'll see it's potential start to unravel

                      [–]cochese18 2 points3 points  (6 children)

                      The reason I haven't invested in bcc is this, I'm worried that when they do finally get their BCC (I'm mainly referring to those on coinbase) you're going to see the price dive due to a massive sell off, I don't think the average person on coinbase who gets BCC is going to hold.

                      [–]williaminlondon 1 point2 points  (5 children)

                      Poloniex was the penultimate big exchange to release BCCs: it had 0 price impact. BTC-e was the last to release BCCs: the price rose. The releases of BCCs from exchanges have a positive market impact now.

                      [–]jpcrypto 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                      If Poloniex was the "penultimate" then who was the "ultimate"? The dictionary says that "penultimate" means not the best or "ultimate".

                      [–]williaminlondon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      BTC-e

                      penultimate: one before last

                      [–]Richy_T 0 points1 point  (2 children)

                      BTC-e was the last to release BCCs:

                      Which dictionary are you using by the way? You might want to request a refund.

                      [–]jpcrypto 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      Miriam Webster. You may want to check yours before trying to call someone out. Check this link: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-does-penultimate-mean

                      [–]Richy_T 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      Do you mean the bit where it says

                      But penultimate means “next to last” or “second to last.”

                      ?

                      Forget the refund on your dictionary, I think you need to have words with your English teacher.

                      By the way, what you linked to was not the dictionary definition. But it proves the point just as well.

                      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penultimate

                      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                      nice article, my first blood of bch tippr is for you.

                      /u/tippr 0.001 bcc

                      [–]randomqhacker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                      Nice

                      [–]randomqhacker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      /u/tippr 1.000 bcc

                      [–]MeatballMother 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Jonald, one fine day in the not to near distant future, I hope you will join me in spamming pink wojaks in the r bitcoin thread, the day bitcoin cash surpasses cores chain in proof of work done.

                      Not in the sense of a brigade, just some nice poetic justice.

                      [–]White_Sign_Soapstone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      People throwing tips all over the place

                      [–]cypher437 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      I learnt nothing...

                      [–]carit 3 points4 points  (3 children)

                      /u/tippr gild

                      [–]blechman 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                      You have a space after the second forward slash.

                      [–]carit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                      Thanks, corrected

                      [–]tippr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                      u/jonald_fyookball, u/carit paid 0.00412979 BCC to gild your post! Congratulations!

                      How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                      Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]jcrew77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        Doesn't bigger blocks also make full nodes only affordable only by big players?

                        No. The timeline where we fill up 8Mb blocks is a few years, unless adoption, and then value, skyrocket. The cost of storing the entire blockchain now is dollars, maybe 10's of dollars.

                        By the time we get to VISA level of transactions, in 20-30 years, the cost to store the entire Blockchain, will be dollars. By that time, the value of Bitcoin will be so high, that the cost of running a full node, on whatever counts for commodity hardware at that time, will be like a grain of sand in a sandbox.

                        Using Bitcoin as a settlement layer, is saying we will exclude most everyone so we do not risk excluding everyone. It is not what Bitcoin is or what is supposed to do. People can make things on top of it, but no one should be trying to Cripple Bitcoin to make their thing look better. Make Lightning, make it another Crypto, but do not FUD about inconsequentials in order to make your Altcoin seem valuable.

                        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                        [deleted]

                          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Goes for both sides...

                          [–]blechman 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                          You are doing a great job for bitcoin. Thanks.

                          /u/tippr tip 2 USD

                          [–]tippr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          u/jonald_fyookball, you've received 0.00294424 BCC (2 USD)!

                          How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                          Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                          [–]LarsPensjo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          Why?

                          Because they hate Bitcoin Cash! They find it threatening.

                          Money is involved, and people are betting on winners. However, you are able to affect the outcome, increasing the chance to make a winning bet.

                          [–]poorbrokebastard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          /u/tippr tip 0.0025 bcc

                          [–]BigBlackHungGuy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                          Interesting article.

                          Do you really believe they are 'terrified' of Bitcoin Cash?

                          I like the enthusiasm , but thats some grade 'A' hyberbole.

                          How about talking about merchant adoption which seems to be the whole 'fees are nuts' argument.

                          Where in the u.s. can I spend it? Lets get some vendors on board.

                          [–]jonald_fyookballElectron Cash Wallet Developer[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                          thats some grade 'A' hyberbole.

                          Agree.

                          [–]lcvella 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          The great irony is that Core, who was so afraid of hardforks, will necessarily have to do one if they want to survive when BCH reaches value parity.

                          [–]Leithm 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Very interesting read, than you.

                          [–]stargrown 0 points1 point  (3 children)

                          Came here because I appreciate open conversation, but mostly cuz i heard I might get tipped.

                          [–]jonald_fyookballElectron Cash Wallet Developer[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                          Usually you contribute something good to the conversation first, THEN you get tipped. That's how it works. ...but ... here you go:

                          /u/tippr 0.001 bcc

                          [–]tippr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          u/stargrown, you've received 0.001 BCC (0.57 USD)!

                          How to use | What is Bitcoin Cash? | Powered by Rocketr | r/tippr
                          Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc

                          [–]Ontopourmama 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          I got tipped a while back but can't figure out how to pull it out.

                          [–]bitconsul 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Interesting info

                          [–]kostialevin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          Yes yes yes... and to see them scared makes me optimistic that we will win!

                          [–]Smart1dumby 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                          What does this mean for litecoin?

                          load more comments (8 replies)