A10X Fusion

So while nobody can say for sure, lets assume we trust the numbers (yes, I know benchmark vs. real world blahblah, just hear me out). This processor blows the pants off anything Android has, including the recently released Snapdragon 835, and it is is not just approaching desktop class, but is now seriously in the midst of mid to high tier laptop class. Apple's own 13" MBP that was just released scores less. Okay, so on to the question:

Does Android have an equivalent or better coming out? Is this the beginning of a confluence of computing form factors? Beginning of the end for Intel (maybe AMD)? I'm tech. savvy, and a tech. lover, but not a professional computer engineer, so keep any explanations with that in mind.

Extra thoughts for those who care:

I'm wondering why A10X this isn't being talked about way more! My work laptop does simple assemblies in Solidworks, and these new iPad Pro scores trounces the hardware power I have in it. My home computing today comprises of a desktop that I can't seem to get working with a FX-8350 and GTX 760 CPU/GPU, a HP Spectre x360 with the i7, a Surface Pro 2, and finally some tablets I play around on. I'm a gadget head, so yes I like toys to play on, but each device has its own scope of use. Again, I haven't even touched the desktop for almost 3 years now due to inoperability, which gives me a good indication the needs I thought I had for it aren't there. If no Android answer comes, I'm seriously tempted go with an iPad Pro 10.5 for my life and consolidate all my devices. I understand the OS will be severely limiting for any kind of high productivity like statistics or CAD, but I will still have a work laptop no matter what (company provided). Being able to have one device that is not only capable, but more capable of everything I do across 4 devices today would be seriously awesome. I also imagine the OS' would eventually scale to the processing power in terms of their functionality to have more "real" productivity capabilities.

This is all coming from someone who has only owned one Apple device (not even an iPod) in their entire life. I got an iPad Mini 2 1 year ago, and it died exactly 8 months after. A total level of utter death that I have never experienced on any Windows or Android device, and certainly not while paying 1.5x what I should have. Needless to say, I was far from an Apple fan before this experience, but am legitimately an Apple hater after this experience. Save me oh great gods: Qualcomm, Samsung, Huawei, and TSMC!

The thing has no close competitors in the mobile market, so I was wondering if there is any guesstimates of how it compares with desktop stuff.

Apple claims 35% faster single thread and 90% faster multi thread with 2x faster graphics. So lets take those percentage differences from the A10X geekbench scores and get the performance shall we :)

• Single Core = 5250

• Multi Core = 17650

• Graphics = 58000

The new iPad Pro is fast

Can we expect a few years of tvOS updates?

Imagine if the Apple TV was updated every year like the iPhone and iPad to include the latest processor. Last year it was given the same A10X as the iPad Pro making it a decent gaming machine for TVs. With the advent of AAA titles like Fortnite, Apple has the chance to break into the gaming market if they continue the trend of putting the top end A series processor in the Apple TV. Imagine if this year they included the A11X, and possibly a Pro Version with dual A11X processors. Could Fortnite and other games possibly run at 1080p or 4K at 60fps? Adding in support for PS4 and Xbox One controllers via bluetooth would increase access to millions of potential users.

If you have an A14 or later device, you're effectively fully supported.

There are some missing features from previous iOS/iPadOS versions, but left those out to simplify the lists (eg no external display support on pre-M1s, no Apple Music Sing pre-A13, no landscape Face ID on pre-A15 iPhones, etc).

This is based on the footnotes from Apple's website.

A12 and A13 iPhones (SE 2/11/XR/XS) don't get the following:

Improved autocorrect, tapping the space bar to finish a sentence, and detecting hand movements in FaceTime to produce a reaction such as confetti or fireworks

Here's what A10 or A10X iPads don't get:

Improved autocorrect, tapping the space bar to finish a sentence, detecting hand movements in FaceTime to produce a reaction such as confetti or fireworks, back to back Siri requests, pressing to mute AirPods, external webcam/mic support, adaptive Audio for AirPods and improved automatic switching, PDF autofill with Contacts information, Screen distance (it needs a Face ID iPad), using as a Center Stage camera for Apple TV FaceTime calls

*Most likely Astronomy wallpapers/Depth effects/etc as well, but did not see a footnote related to it

A12/A13 iPads only lack the autocorrect/space bar sentence related features as well as the FaceTime reactions, as well as external webcam support and screen distance (with the exception of A12X/Z iPad Pros).

Sorry if the format comes out bad, I'm on mobile right now.

Edit: For fun, I compared the feature support for A10X and A12X/Z iPad Pros. Surprisingly, the A12X was missing only the improved sentence finish/autocorrect/FaceTime reaction stuff as well as the features such as virtual swap and external display support (as well as Apple Music Sing and Metal 3). The A10X on the other hand is really on its last legs....... I was able to count a total of at least 30 features missing when accounted for previous versions of iOS, most being from 15-17 (list far too long to put here). Looks like A12X iPads have really held up!

On April 20th, Apple announced its new Apple TV 4K, now with a plethora of nice changes, but one curious one.

Before I begin, it should be noted that this is all prerelease, and before even orders are available. Only time will tell how things go.

The processor has been changed from an A10X Fusion to an A12 Bionic chip. Besides the obvious question of “Why not the A14?” And “How long will this upgrade last, considering it’s a 3 year old processor?”

My question is more of wether or not it’s entirely an upgrade. The A12 clearly has better CPU performance than the A10X, by a decent amount, but it’s not huge. Still, a solid bump is better than nothing. However, the GPU from the A10X is very good, considering its age, and it’s a lot faster than the A10. Similarly, the A12X or A12Z has a much faster GPU than the A12.

But apple didn’t choose the A12X or A12Z. They chose the base model A12, the same one in the base model iPad. And the GPU isn’t great. It’s not even as fast as the A10X, for that matter, by about 30%. This means that gaming on the Apple TV 4K 2021 may not be as good as the 2017 model. This is a huge disappointment if you’re like me and enjoy Apple Arcade games and want a solid frame rate on things like Oceanhorn 2, for instance.

It also leads into the question of long-term performance. If the GPU is slower, does that mean you’d be better off just staying with the 2017 model?

Now, there is definitely a better video decoder chip in the A12, as well as the addition of the Neural Engine, so video playback should not only be unaffected, but is shown to be capable of High Framerate video with HDR. Potentially 120fps, but Apple didn’t specify what “high framerate” meant.

Of course, Apple could have always increased the clock speed of the A12. Apple has shown to have changed clock speeds in the past with their A processors, such as with the underclocked iPod touch with its A10 chip.

It could also be a custom A12 with just a better GPU, not the CPU increases that the A12X and A12Z options added, to have the GPU meeting that of the A10X at least.

Regardless, it’s fun to speculate, and it will be interesting to see the route Apple takes with their latest set top box. What do you all think?

Before Apple Arcade, I thought A10X on Apple TV 4K was plenty fast and any update would amount to future proofing for HDMI 2.1 TV sets.

Then I tried several Apple Arcade titles. The frame rate feels sluggish on many titles.

So I am now in full support for new Apple TV on October 28 rumor.

Apple's A10X is noting short of an engineering marvel. Insanely high benchmark scores for a CPU under 100mm^2. It goes head on with Intels larger, higher power 15 and 28 watt processors, and it comes out on top most of the times. So, with the A10X as a solid basis, let's design the Apple L1.

CPU

First the CPU. The A10X had three Fusion-clusters with each a high-performance Hurricane core and a high-efficiency Zephyr core. The high-performance cores are clocked at 2,38 GHz. Here are some CPU-benchmarks.

To improve our L1, we are going to do two things. First, add a 4th core. Second, apply a modest 15% higher clock-speed. That means we now have a quad-cluster processor with the Hurricane cores clocked at 2,74 GHz. Frequency scaling is almost perfect, so 15% higher scores. Multi-core scaling is not. Adding a 4th core should give 33.3% higher performance, but let's assume 25% to compensate for scaling losses. We now get:

• Geekbench 4.1 Single: 3877 x 1.15 = 4459

• Geekbench 4.1 Multi: 9207 x 1.15 x 1.333 = 14113

So we're on par with an 28 watt Intel i7-processor in single-core, and blowing it away in multi. Not bad.

What did this cost us? The total A10X TDP is estimated at 8 watt, while the CPU-porting uses max 4 of those. We need about 25% more power for the 15% overclock, and 33% for the extra core. So that's 4 x 1.25 x 1.33 = 6.65 watt maximum. Of course we can still opt to clock lower and disable cores for higher efficiency and we still have the high-efficiency Zephyr cores.

The CPU-complex, including caches, take about 18% of the A10X die, so 96.4mm² x 0.18 = 17.35mm^2. With the extra core cluster and extra caches this gets 33.3% bigger, so 17.35mm² x 1.333 = 23.14mm^2, 4,8mm² larger that the A10X. That's very reasonable. We could also double the whole core cluster to a 6+6 configuration, which would blow Intel completely of the table without needing that much die size (34.7 mm^2).

GPU

Let's move on to the GPU. The current GPU is an Imagination 12-cluster GPU with 12 x 32 = 384 streaming processors. It takes 25.3% of the A10X die, so 96.4mm² x 0.253 = 24.39mm^2. For our L1, we want way more GPU power. We want to blow Intel out of the water. Some configurations:

Let's analyse that massive 32 cluster option. Let's say that the A10X uses 5 watt for it's 12 cluster GPU (it's probably lower). If we retain the same clock speeds we use 5 watt / 12 x 32 = 13.33 watt. The current A10X has about 40% of the processing power of a Nvidia GTX 1050, but our GPU is 2.66 times faster, so about as fast as a desktop GTX 1050. Right now Apple's A10X is about 25% faster than Intel's Iris Plus 640 GPU, our L1 is more than 3 times as fast.

Conclusion

GTX 1050 power. Faster than Intel CPU. 20 watt. 142mm² die size. It looks like Apple could easily build a laptop chip for their MacBooks. Technology or power won't be the problem.

Porting all existing software to ARMv8 will be a hell of a job. But Apple has done it before, in far more difficult times. They switched from IBM Power to Intel x86 in less than a year and they can do it again.

Remember, this is all A10-class platform technology. Tomorrow Apple wil announce the A11 with new high- and low-performance cores, a new GPU and the very important ability to dynamically switch task between cores. If they build a laptop chip with these new designs it will probably be even faster and more efficient.

I live in Chile where they JUST released the iPad Pro 10.5 (believe it or not) and HOLY SHIT, this thing SCREAAAAMS and that display is the best one I have ever seen. I immediately took out my 7 Plus out of my pocket and my brain started thinking this phone is lagging lol. A10X was handling everything I put on it with ease and I just kept scrolling and closing and opening apps to admire that 120 hz display. I really hope the next iPhone gets the same treatment. But in the meantime, I know what's my next Apple purchase. This thing looked just perfect to me. The weight and the thinness was awesome. The bezels are shrank a lot. The display is the best I have seen and 4GB RAM and A10X are too much overpower for iOS. Kudos to Apple. I can finally not take my Macbook out and keep it on my desk for good.

A new result of the Apple iPhone12,3 (aka 11 Pro Max) just popped up in Geekbench 5.

• CPU:

• GPU (Metal):

Of course these are individual runs so there is some statistical noise in the data. Looking at the sub-scores, on the CPU the Image Inpainting and Ray Tracing scores stand out with +30% performance, and on the Metal test, which runs on the GPU, the Stereo Matching result stands out at double the performance.

Looking at the , this places the A13 GPU on par with the Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650/655 in the 13-inch MacBook Pro, and just above the A10X from the 2017 iPad Pros.

Just a single benchmark though, different applications may vary. Can't wait for AnandTech's review!

For reference, a link to the

Apple claims the A12X is 35% faster (single-core) and 90% faster (multi-core) than the A10X. How does that compare?

I've seen a lot of reviews claiming that the new iPad's Apple A10X is somehow beating Intel's low power lineup used in laptops. That statement seems to be mostly based on Geekbench and a bunch of browser based benchmarks. Is this actually legit? If so, why's ARM desktop not a thing then?

Currently I have the AppleTV 4K from 2017, and contemplating on an upgrade to the latest model to have a better Apple Arcade experience.

I know that streaming my tv shows will have little effect from such an upgrade, however for Apple Arcade purposes Is the a10x to a12 chip jump worth the upgrade?

I have three options, an iMac, an iPad or an Apple TV.

I already own a 12 pro max, and I really cannot see myself using a huge tablet for gaming, perhaps a mini 6.

As for an iMac, currently all my computing needs are done on my iPhone, and if I were to get an iMac it would be for Apple Arcade and perhaps stadia/xcloud which my iPhone can do.

My computing needs are as follows Facebook Twitter Reddit YouTube YouTube music Apple news Flipboard Email Calls/SMS calendar A controller for my AppleTV and LG TV Web browsing Wattpad Ulysses Streaming apps Netflix Disney Hulu paramount peacock acorn Britbox Amazon prime showtime

This is a really large upgrade over the A10X when you take into account multicore performance. This also paves the way for machine learning algorithms to be used by companies like adobe when editing your images/artwork and apple release their dev tools for taking advantage of that neural engine. The increase in size of the neural engine between the A11 and A12 really points at the fact that apple wants this to be used by individuals other than apple (I mean they basically just use it for face unlock and the A11 was good enough for that).

Finally going quad core and bringing running machine learning natively to the ipad is going to be a big deal come iOS13/14 imo and I think people are missing that.

They say the cpu is their version big little, 3 big, 3 small and that the gpu is 40% faster than the previous gpu. This new cpu will wipe floor of intel M7s even potentially (although new refresh is pretty great because process improvenents). To be fair the A10x is probably way more transistors, because the A9x uses way more, and this can only be bigger. Adjustable refresh rate on a mobile device is wild. And a file system..... I may buy an iPhone finally if they put this one how iPhone. Apple is ready to completly kill OSX slowly. First with consumer, but eventually they will work way up to iMac and the new bullshit Mac Pro

[Source for the information] ()

This is for the nerds that like to explore behind the scenes. All of the power draw is 1) total device power draw and 2) below 6W AC, so any changes won't be noticeable to consumers (except perhaps in very long 4K HDR streaming and you put your hand on the box?).

Most video decoding is done with fixed-function (e.g., dedicated) silicon, rather than the CPU or the GPU itself. Notably in the 2022 model, 4K HDR actually consumes a smidge less power (-1.7% / 0.04W) than 4K non-HDR.

Some quick notes on 4K HDR:

• 2017 is 4K30 Dolby Vision HDR, no Thread

• 2021 is 4K60 Dolby Vision HDR, has Thread

• 2022 is 4K60 Dolby Vision HDR and HDR10+, sometimes has Thread

Why has idle power gone up? It's a tiny change in absolute terms (0.29W → 0.40W → 0.49W): maybe the always-on Thread Border Router (in 2021 + 2022) and AC-DC (PSU) things?

Apple's methodology

• Sleep/Network standby: Low power state that is entered automatically after 15 minutes of inactivity (default), selecting Sleep Now from Apple TV 4K with Siri Remote Control Center menu, or by pressing the Power button on the remote. To deactivate network ports, remove power.

• Streaming 4K movies: Condition in which 4K movies are played on Apple TV 4K with Siri Remote from Apple TV app.

• Streaming 4K HDR movies: Condition in which 4K HDR movies are played on Apple TV 4K with Siri Remote from Apple TV app.

• Power supply efficiency: Average of the power supply’s measured efficiency when tested at 100 percent, 50 percent, and 20 percent of the power supply’s rated output current.

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