News and discussions relating to George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels, his Westeros-based short stories, "Game of Thrones" and "House of the Dragon" TV series, and all things ASOIAF - but with particular emphasis on the written series.
When Ser Alliser is sent off on a dangerous ranging beyond the Wall in ADWD, he warns Jon that if he is killed by the Others, he will come back for revenge as a wight. While that would make a pretty cool scene, I think it makes more sense for the story for Ser Alliser to come back. Here are my reasons:
1) GRRM could be purposely leading us to believe that Ser Alliser will die to set up readers to be surprised when he survives and is just fine.
2) Melisandre prophecizes that three of the nine rangers Jon Snow sent out will die, and that's what happens. She never predicts Ser Alliser's death.
3) Ser Alliser was a knight in King's Landing who served the Targaryens before the rebellion. Given that we all know R + L = J, its interesting that Ser Alliser may have known Rhaegar Targaryen personally. Perhaps they were even friends (or enemies). When Jon Snow learns his parentage, I think he's going to embrace his Targaryen identity (all that foreshadowing about not being welcome in the Stark's home). It could be interesting to explore this connection
4) Ser Alliser is kinda a core character. He's been in it since the first book. He's arguably Jon Snow's main antagonist, and Jon Snow is arguably the main character of the series. Snow worries about Ser Alliser and his associates even after he is sent off. Him returning as a mindless wight would eliminate all of the character drama that Alliser has.
5) Now that Jon Snow is dead, a new "choosing" will happen to pick the new Lord Commander. Cotter Pyke is in trouble at Hardhome (possibly dead), Denys Mallister is at the Shadow Tower, and Janos Slynt is dead. The most obvious choices to me are Othell Yarwyck; Bowen Marsh; maybe even Edd Tollet; and (if he returns) Se Alliser. All four of these men ran in the last election. It could be Bowen Marsh, but I think Ser Alliser would be the most interesting choice. Even though Ser Alliser is unlikeable, he might be supported by both the anti-Jon faction (because they know he hates Jon) AND the pro-Jon faction of the NW (because they know he wasn't involved in Jon's mutiny)
Some more thoughts on Alliser's Fate:
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Assuming Ser Alliser returns, it will change the story depending on when he arrives. Will he return before or after Jon's resurrection? Will he return before or after R + L = J is revealed? It's not clear when or where these events will happen. Jon could be resurrected at Castle Black, Winterfell, or the Nightfort. He could be resurrected early in TWOW, the middle, or late in the book. There are many ways R + L = J could be revealed; maybe Samwell learns in Oldtown; Bran learns via the trees; Howland Reed shows up; maybe Benjen knows. I dont know where or when that will happen, but I think it should happen in TWOW, maybe near the end of the book.
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If Alliser returns, it will have to be an event in a chapter. It won't happen "off-page"
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If Ser Alliser is going to be Lord Commander, then he will return soon, maybe in the first Melisandre chapter. They will probably be electing a new Lord Commander in the first Melisandre chapter. The NW and the Wildings will reach an uneasy stalemate in the wake of Jon's murder; this is only because the NW controls the hostages that Jon collected from the Wildling-chiefs at the end of ADWD, as I wrote in my "blood price theory" .
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If the Lord Commander is Ser Alliser, he will probably decide to hand over Selyse, Shireen, Mel, Monster, and Val to Ramsay. (But Bowen Marsh would make the same decision if he were Lord Commander)
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If Ser Alliser becomes Lord Commander, maybe he will hate Ghost. Maybe he'll want Ghost to be kicked out of Castle Black. Maybe he'll want to burn Jon's body
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I wonder if it's possible for Ser Alliser to have a redemption story. Jon Snow considers this:
"Jon watched the riders go from atop the Wall—three parties, each of three men, each carrying a pair of ravens. From on high their garrons looked no larger than ants, and Jon could not tell one ranger from another. He knew them, though. Every name was graven on his heart. Eight good men, he thought, and one … well, we shall see." (Jon VI, ADWD)
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It would be cool for Alliser to have a redemption story maybe, but it would also be cool for Alliser to come back alive and do one last thing to fuck up Jon's mission somehow
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If Alliser and resurrected-Jon Snow ever meet up after R + L = J, I'd be interested to see how Ser Alliser reacts
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It's interesting that Ser Alliser is basically Jon Snow's #1 enemy, yet he's also the one guy who's definitely innocent in Jon's assassination. I wonder if GRRM did this on purpose so that he could conceivably have Jon and Alliser meet after R + L = J is revealed. The mutineers may not survive long, if Alliser is one of them than neither will he
What do you guys predict about Ser Alliser Thorne's fate and how he may effect the story in Castle Black?
Am I way off base? Is he just gonna be gone forever? Will he return as a wight? Is it wrong to think he'd be Lord Commander since he is considered unlikeable? Is it wrong to think he might have some kind of redemption arc? You heard any good theories regarding Ser Alliser?