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Techland developing AAA open-world fantasy action RPG with former CD Projekt RED staff
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Looks inspired by Central America by the way those ruins look. They look more Mayan than Aztec though. Also the armor that the character is wearing seems to be inspired by conquistadores in some way.
Either way, interesting setting and I hope they can deliver on the game.
EDIT: so as some people have commented, it looks more inspired by Southeast Asia than Central America btw
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“Curse of the dead gods” is actually inspired by them. It’s a super fun roguelike and I recommend it
So the game is kinda red?
Everytime I read "rouge" instead of "rogue" I get irrationally irritated
I feel sorry to myself
I mean I agree with you, but there's no confirmation that the setting actually has anything to do with that. The buildings in this art piece simply look "inspired by", is all.
I'm also not too sure how much EU or US centric devs want to tackle Mesoamerican settings, given how recent attempts were all criticised for being done by such devs as opposed to native ones.
I mean Ghost of Tsushima just came out, that was made by Americans. It was highly praised in Japan. As long as they do their due diligence and respect their culture, absolutely no issue with using other settings.
and Assassins creed became a house hold name based off doing this with extensive attention to detail
That game is one of the best games I’ve played in the last 15 years. Insanely great game.
Japan is much less easily offended though. They generally don't mind stereotypes and are fine stereotyping others.
Then nobody would ever play a mayan inspired game if people are seriously too stupid to want a mayan studio to develop it. Because the mayans still exist in Yucatan and other regions of Mexico, but for the most part they still have an indigenous life style so no videogame will be created by them anytime soon.
Im mexican and I dont care about the nationality of the developers, I just want to play a game inspired by one of the many mesoamerican civilizations.
fr. everyone’s like “IT HAS TO BE MADE BY NATIVES” like wtf just let me game
Somewhat related, and I'm not sure how well of a job they did in referencing central and South America, but Rokka Flower of the Six Braves is an anime I enjoyed that's based on the culture.
Wat. There’s millions of Mayans all across the continent. Sure, some live indigenous lives, but plenty of others don’t also. One of my best friends growing up was a full Mayan, second generation American. She was most assuredly living a normal life like you or I, but with added traditions and history that most cultures don’t have.
What does this even mean? It's history, nobody owns it. I am south American, would I be unable to make a European history rpg?
Criticised by who? Likely other us or eu people I'd wager.
Twitter. Twitter's demographics are 20% of adults have accounts, 80% of those are affluent white Millennial/GenZ.
So you're correct, US people.
I fully agree with you. But if you look at prominent discussions about the topic, perceived "white" devs(as in fully European studios for example) using those kind of settings isn't really "in fashion" right now.
Many people would definitely prefer if there's a native studio that would do such a thing, or at least a game that has a certain % of devs or at the very least, consultants from said culture. I'm not one of them, but having been around those discussions on Era and Twitter, I know its there.
Pretty much.
Probably. Not because you're not allowed to , but because you wouldn't have the context to make it good. A game's setting is more than looking up images for traditional attire and architecture and using those as references for assets.
The only major critique I recall in recent history is New World and um…that was pretty bad. It leaned hard on conquistadors being the good guys and the natives being savages trying to summon evil gods to create an apocalypse.
Like it didn’t even do the bare minimum of appending “to defend themselves from being conquered” to that last sentence. Then instead of even TRYING to give some nuance to the natives, they just ripped out all the natives and replaced them with undead when they pivoted to focusing on PvE.
Are there other examples you have?
Recent attempts were also done in a way that glamorized colonizing “savage untamed lands” which is a rather offensive way of depicting genocide of multiple cultures.
Pillars of eternity 2 has a good central South American vibe.
I think it’s more Caribbean though
It is Colonial Venice and Imperial Hawaii fighting over Caribbean Pacifics for the luxury spirit rocks. Probably inspired after a Civilizations run.
Problem is with this sentiment, which I agree with, is that we literally know almost nothing about either culture due too all the purging the Spanish missionaries did.
The statue (and the city in the background) make me believe that is more inspired by South-East Asian cultures than Central American.
Especially because, if I remember correctly, Central American cultures didn't use arcs in their architecture.
You know, now that I’m looking at it again, you seem to be on the right track. It definitely takes inspiration from Classical Khmer Architecture
Yeah, it reminded me more of Angkor Wat than the Maya/Aztec stuff.
They did use corbel arches https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel_arch
Literally just yesterday I was thinking how awesome a game set in or inspired by pre Columbian Mexico and Central America would be.
We need more fantasy inspired from underutilized sources.
100% I agree. I really hope TES6 is heavily inspired by the Arabic Peninsula and North Africa and not changed. In ESO it’s pretty good but I want to see it developed further.
Also: I hope to god that Avowed isn’t Western European fantasy as well and takes alot of inspiration from rainforests.
Interesting. I'm getting more SEA vibes, Thai/Cambodian like architecture.
Could be south Asian as well
Doesn't look mayan or aztec... at all.
Yeah wtf is that person talking about. Look at the Hellenistic style statues.
obv the setting looks jungly, but getting more rome vibes. The character is wearing a robe; conquistadors wore pants. The thing in the forefront looks like a broken aqueduct. Mayan/Aztec architecture is also known for step pyramids and I dont see any steps.
of course its all made up so prob a mix of everything
that's definitely not a robe. looks like a gambeson, way too short to be a robe.
sure. either way, its not the conquistadors look
its asian most likely quite possibly indian
I'm not exactly hopeful that the writers of the Witcher games can handle a colonial setting or narrative with the respect it deserves.
Yea I fully agree on that. If it’s a story about colonialism it needs to be done respectfully but I’m hoping that it can be done well and not offensive
The involvement of people behind narrative of The Witcher 2 and 3 alone makes me interested in this project.
They were also in Dying Light 2. The story turned out to be what it is. Execution is a strong, integral part of good story telling, but the writing of the narrative is only one aspect.
It helps when people all agree with something and aren't fighting over it.
That game was absolutely terrible. I loved Dying Light 1 but the second part was just a bug fest with copy pasted content everywhere.
Five. Hundred. Hours. Of content
Quality over quantity
Same, and the change for jumps was what really fucked me. It still bothers me that they changed the way the jump was for DL2, even if it was more realistic it felt like I was a feather and I really didn't like that.
It wasn’t more realistic, you literally have superpowers from being experimented on lol
Dying Light 2 felt more a like ripoff of Dying Light than a sequel.
i loved the firsts ones gameplay and world. hated the story.
From a look of it. They cut/rewrite a lot of stuff out in DL2 due to chris avellone's sexual allegations. If you played the game, you literally can tell which quest is avellone's based on the presence of choices and writing.
That extra delay after 2020 was to made sure his work remain very minimal presence in the game.
I can’t believe people are upvoting a story you clearly pulled out of your ass. Chris himself admitted that he wrote 5 drafts for the game but none of his material was used in the final product.
There is no Avellone influence in DL2. Just because he wrote some scripts doesn’t mean they ended up getting used.
When did they ever say that? Iirc Techland’s response to the Avellone stuff was just that he finished his work on the game long beforehand, nothing about stripping out existing narrative
It's just very convenient how much rewriting took place and when the allegations came out. If it wasn't because of Chris, it's instead bad management or some other fault to Techland. Either way, not a good look.
What happened?
I'd love if someone could correct me, but it seemed like those allegations didn't hold much water? Maybe I saw some too many fanboys posting about this, but it seemed general sentiment shifted towards being on his side after it was all said and done.
Literally means nothing. The team that made a cohesive narrative in W2/3 aren’t the ones making this new game. A couple familiar faces doesn’t automatically translate to producing similar quality titles.
I wouldn’t be if I were you. The “people behind left 4 dead” made back 4 blood and it ended up being painfully mediocre.
And the scores of games 'from former Blizzard developers!' who have faded into obscurity trying to cash in on the hype behind the classic titles.
To be fair a lot of those are MMOs or insanely ambitious projects that no one should expect to succeed
There were like 4 people making B4B out of 100 L4D devs, that was straight up misleading advertising.
Just like in this case. Techland has 3 ex CD PROJEKT devs. Out of hundreds that worked on Witcher 3. This means nothing.
"From the three Witcher 3 devs that animated the unicorn sex scene comes a brand new AAA fantasy IP!"
Yeah, like 90% of L4D was Valve.
"The fantasy RPG team’s staff includes:
Karolina Stachyra – Narrative director who previously worked with CD Projekt RED on The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings and The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, plus its downloadable content.
Arkadiusz Borowik – Narrative lead who previously worked with CD Projekt RED on The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings and The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, plus its downloadable content.
In just the last few months, the team was also joined by:
Bartosz Ochman – Open world director who previously worked on Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt.
Mario Maltezos – Creative director who previously worked with companies like Ubisoft (Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time), Warner Bros. (Mad Max), and Microsoft.
David McClure – Lead game designer previously associated with Arkane Studios (DEATHLOOP), Deep Silver, and Playground Games.
Kevin Quaid – Lead animator with over eight years of experience at Guerrilla Games, working on titles such as Horizon Zero Dawn and its expansion, “The Frozen Wilds.”
Marcin Surosz – Lead user interface / user experience designer with amazing skill in defining players’ needs, formerly with People Can Fly."
These are all high level positions that have much more influence than a single coder
I'll note that Stachyra and Borowik were lower-level writers at CDPR before being promoted into those current positions at Techland, but yeah, the rest of those folks were leads when they got pulled over. Big investment from Techland.
They made Evolved too I think which was very promising till... well till it was released with half the game being left off the table for DLC purposes. Even good developers are at the mercy of greedy publisher's, lets see how much freedom these developers get from Techland first. Still though I hope they surprise us.
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I was referring to that video actually, a fantastic watch!
I really enjoy playing B4B with my friends.
The story is dumb, the dialogue can be hilariously bad but we really enjoy the coop gameplay and mechanics. Definitely got our moneys worth out of the game.
We used to all play Left 4 Dead and then L4D2 during uni but not only was that a long time ago back then we more favoured BF games, COD 4, Warcraft 3 mods, command and conquers etc, so hard for me to say B4B is not as good.
Though Dying Light (haven't played 2) was a better made game, we did not find it as enjoyable as we have B4B.
I guess the social element is now so much more important and enjoyable playing B4B compared to L4D as we do not live all across States and involved in our busy responsibility laden lives. So that might skew my perspective a lot.
Witcher 3’s main plot was decent, but nothing mind blowing.
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It’s also important to note that a lot of the Witcher character development was done for them already. It’s one thing to take an already developed cast of characters and settings and create a new story (or really a continuation) then to create something entirely new. Especially since narratives in MMO’s typically aren’t the focus.
That being said if they pull it off, and make a narrative mmo much in the way of ffxiv I’m here for it.
I also think that a lot of the game-original characters are fantastic in Witcher 3, and really elevate these new stories.
Yes, but not the main plot.
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The keyword is not "main", it's "plot". Even the main story is engaging and has well written dialogue and characters, main story's plot is just one aspect of the main story writing.
Writing>plot.
By writing, I assume you mean dialogue?
If so, I highly disagree. Vince Gilligan, the creator of Breaking Bad, said the key to a good story is structure, not the dialogue. The dialogue is the cherry on top.
True, but the narrative, writing, dialogue and characters were outstanding. And tbh, most games have very average-okayish plots, it's the writing what makes them shine.
What games blow your mind?
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Check out Disco Eysium if you want a title with some serious narrative chops.
If you open up to judging games beside a good plot twist you may find there's other aspects that may contribute to what makes a game/book/whatever well written if you find a lot of stuff boring.
Just a suggestion, since you only typed popular games that rely somewhat on plot twists but have other good aspects (as well as bad) about them.
You thought that the main plot in The Witcher 3 is mind blowing???
Haven't played it yet. Dunno why you are asking me.
I can't even remember the plot of Witcher 2. It was very disjointed, at least if you join the elves. One second I'm saving a dragon lady with lesbian magic and the next I'm attending some peace conference?
Mhh, excuse me, it's called lesbomancy.
My favourite type of magic.
It's disjointed, because you can't remember it.
Seriously, the story still holds up better than Witcher 3 easily. But I will admit that just playing the Scoiatel-Side does leave you in the dark a bit and I got way less of the political happenings than I did playing with Roche.
The game is basically built to be played twice to get the full picture.
Its disjointed because they failed in the execution aspect. The salt factory did a pretty good 2h video on the entire game.
Specifically, they failed to pull off the illusion that the choices the game causes you to make actually make much of a difference. Toward the end, the game railroads you and fails to acknowledge the implications of your actual actions.
Yes and the point I'm trying to make is that it's an unmemorable storyline so it having writers from Witcher 2 isn't a big boon. I don't recall anyone praising the story of Witcher 2, it wasn't until Witcher 3 that the writing got good.
You don't recall anyone praising the story of TW2? What do you think people played it for, its impeccable combat?
Lol Witcher 2 main praise was its story and writing. The main story has much better writing and its much darker story than Witcher 3. I cannot believe that crap I am reading right now.
I don't really remember a whole lot myself because I haven't played it since before Wild Hunt came out, but man, I still appreciate how different the two storylines were. And what's more, how those two main lines would still branch out depending on seemingly small choices that catch up with you later on.
Okay from memory (played on release): Gerät helps rebels in the first act, can make a choice at the end, in act 2 I chilled with dwarfs and helped a Jeanne D'Arc type figure and then I fought the ugly guy with a broken nose (in Witcher 3) in act 3 and fought a dragon on a roof. Done! (:
Device of Rivia.
When you side with humans you fight ghosts and stuff, and you have absolutely no idea why is there a dragon. Like seriously it just appears seemingly out of nowhere. You can also get a special tattoo that carries out to Witcher 3.
Remember the article about Techland that came out last year? https://www.thegamer.com/techland-report-bleeding-talent-autocratic-management-bad-feedback/
I don't know if it's ironic or funny how the CEO admired how CDPR operated and wanted to model Techland after them then hires former employees to make their own RPG. There aren't a lot of options for ex-CDPR devs to go to in Poland. After CDPR, Techland is paired with People Can Fly for the biggest developers in Poland. Well, interested to see what Techland can do after DL2
Depends on whether these former employees were part of the problem or disgruntled by it.
Karolina Stachyra did blood baron story and quests design.
That bodes really well -- that was the quest where I realized TW3 was something special.
Either way, to consumers, I'm not sure "Made by the guy behind the open-world of cyberpunk" is the best advertisement. The open world elements have always been very shallow in CDPR games. Looks nice but there's nothing to do but go to the next mission.
The devs mentioned in the article, also worked with many other studios ( mentioned in article ), so i dont think they are limited to only Poland.
I mean CDPR, Techland and People Can Fly are all pretty damn big gaming companies for a country the size of Poland.
There are many options. You don't need to go to bigger developer to acomplish something better or bigger. Game dev industry in Poland is bigger than in Germany.
Huh, I did a basic wiki search for Poland developers and it came up with like 30 at most but there definitely could be more
I’m sure the game will be fine when it comes out in 5+ years, but that description does nothing for me at all.
When ppl will understand that employees often change their studio once a project is finished? That games done by the same studio aren't done by the very same staff? Probably never 🤷♀️
While this is true I do wonder if the culture at these studios are as persistent as they are in other similar fields. If the hiring methodology is consistent, then employees like this will be continuously fostered within the company. Know what I mean?
As in the final product(s) will have the same essence, or “touch” as the ones made by the previous team(s)? I think that would be possible.
Yup, that's exactly what I mean. I think so, too.
Sometimes people joining/creating a new studio does have a big effect on a game. Medal of Honor allied assault - call of duty - titanfall wound be a good example. But sometimes you get something like back for blood ):
As long as its not a gass im good. I dont want drip fed content, give me a finished and working 98% flawlessly at release. Some paid DLC down the line.
Is GAAS some new gaming turn I'm too old to understand? Do you mean game as a service?
You’re correct
Well, with the way they provided support for DL1, even if it's GAAS, I'm still looking forward to it.
Very interested about this new IP. I enjoy the Dying Light games a lot, but Techland has only worked on the DL IP since 2015, so anything vastly different (but still as ambitious) works for me.
I also hope the Call of Juarez IP is not dead forever, as Wild West FPS (or even wild west games in general) are very uncommon on PC and Gunslinger was a fantastic game even though it was a small scale game.
Idk I'm always wary about "former [popular studio] staff."
Remember Back 4 Blood? It had like 5 people from the original 100+ crew and was in almost every aspect a worse game.
CDPR makes good stories, but dull gameplay. Techland makes great gameplay, but dull stories.
This can go one of two ways
It's gonna be the bad way, isn't it?
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That’s my worry with them. RPGs can be utterly engrossing if you nail the world building, but I’ve seen nothing from Techland to suggest they can story their world or make the world interesting enough to do activities in. They’re great with gameplay generally, but this seems like an ask. We’ll see I guess
What is it with amazing fantasy rpgs being retroactively being labeled as "bad gameplay" years after they came out to massive acclaim for evolving the genre, creating new paradigms that other developers emulated and then refined in following years? People don't go back to doom and be like, well the music was great but you can't even look up and down so the gameplay is shit.
It’s not retroactive, witcher 3 has dull gameplay when it first came out. If you go back to old threads you’re sure to find many complaints about it, the hype just overshadowed it. It’s not hard to see, CDPR essentially just implemented the most conventional rpg mechanics that have existed for a decade by that point. This was even hailed as using „tried and tested” mechanics by the hype machine
what new gameplay paradigms did W3 establish that makes it comparable to Doom?
Because it's true, since day. Oblivion and Skyim are claimed Fantasy RPGs with terrible combat and Witcher 3 doesn't fare much better lol It just happens to be that we don't notice that until we are actually looking deeper into it.
1st or 3rd person RPG?
1st person most probably.
Their Dying Light games have been first person and had some solid melee gameplay.
Besides that, Techland had also worked in a first-person RPG in the past with the cancelled Hellraid.
So this isn't uncharted lands for them.
I was so excited about hell raid. I love fantasy/medieval melee games
Don't forget Dead Island, another first person game. If they can bring back the analog combat option from that, I'd be stoked.
Most "action" games are 3rd person these days, as they should be. 1st person works well with shooters, but with frenetic action games, it's brutally dizzying, especially as visual fidelity and particle effects become more advanced but also utilized more.
Additionally, "fantasy" tends to imply involvement of melee weapons, and I don't think any person of sound reason actually prefers melee in first person over third.
I always play elder scrolls in first person. Also dark messiah had sick first person combat.
It's a shame nobody's really tried to build on it since. The closest it really gets is Dishonored 2 with the blink kick upgrade.
Dark Messiah was so good, I have no idea why it never became popular so we could get a sequel.
TES games are kind of like shooters where you can only shoot stuff in melee range. The melee combat is very floaty and lacks impact. It's always been a weakness of the games.
Dark Messiah is sick, though.
Should be noted that Techland has focused exclusively on first-person games thus far. I can't think of a single one of their games that wasn't FPP.
Sure, but Geurilla Games went from 1st person to their debut 3rd person with HZD, and that turned out brilliantly. Aloy's movement and the combat are a significant contributor to the appeal of that game.
This is true, with the main exception being that Guerrilla basically only had one franchise under their belt prior to the pivot, whereas Techland's FPP preference is much more developed.
This article also suggests that the CDPR people they hired are focused on narrative and open-world design, whereas the game design lead worked on Deathloop...which was also FPP.
Obviously not much is public right now but the clues are certainly pointing to a commitment to first-person.
I don’t know. Dying light has some of the best first person melee combat out there. And they also worked on a first person fantasy game before (hellraid) so I think it’s more likely to be first person.
Still cant keep up with the first person combat of dark messiah what is still the best today despite being decades old.
Well, 16 years old, but yeah.
There are dozens of us, dozens!
Vermintide is fantastic for melee combat and I can't imagine it would feel anywhere close to as good as it does in third person.
There are games that made 1st person melee combat fun, such as Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, but they are indeed rare.
"everything must be the same" ok
Go run around a cave in Skyrim and tell me how well 3rd person treats you.
You can't use the elder scrolls series to defend first person combat. The games have without a doubt the worst fucking combat in an rpg ever
You can't talk about the quality of RPG combat systems if Skyrim is the worst you've encountered.
wtf i love first person melee combat, especially over the standard third person "just mash square" action-style combat.
tell me you play on consoles without telling me you play on consoles
Absolutely not. I almost always prefer first person over third person; Mordhau, Elder Scrolls/Fallout, Dying Light, EYE Divine Cybermancy, Sea of Thieves, Cyberpunk 2077, etc are far more fun and enjoyable than most third person games. There's only a handful of exceptions I can think of where I like third-person melee combat is Mount and Blade and Assassin's Creed, and even then only Mount and Blade feels like it's actually preferable to be in third-person whereas in Assassin's Creed the combat mechanics themselves aren't as enjoyable as games like Cyberpunk, Dying Light, etc.
It's way more engaging and fun to be in the up-close first-person perspective, especially in narrative/story games.
Hopefully first person.
Looks promising, but honestly cant find myself able to get excited for it after what happened with Hellraid. Spent years after its announcement in GameInformer waiting for it only for it delayed year after year after year, then it released a mobile game spinoff to build up hype for the official game, then more delays, then it was "put on indefinite hold". Only to be released as a weird Dying Light DLC spinoff even more years later.
two companies that both most recently released underwhelming, underperforming open world action RPGs are working together to develop another? That, in and of itself, isn't a great sales pitch.
Exactly what I thought when I read the headline. CDPR just released a flop of a game and Techland finally released a game plagued with dev-hell extending the release multiple years, while suffering a dev exodus resulting in an extremely mediocre follow up to an 8/10 original game.
The title doesn't inspire confidence whatsoever.
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Nah I think we should hype the fuck outta this-
Cyberpunk 2077 sold 18 million copies, it certainly didn't underperform.
Please don't compare CP2077 to Dying Light 2. DL2 is laughably bad in comparison, much more bugged, has awful visuals, extremely repeatable open world, awful characters and animations, some decent gameplay at times but clunky at others. Meanwhile story, quests characters and graphics in CP2077 is state of the art and the open world and gameplay might not be the best but decent and much better than in DL2.
You said not to compare, then proceeded to compare the two
I wonder when people will finally get that literally every major polish game dev studio has at least a dozen ex-cdp employees at any time. It's a meme in poland that every dev is automatically the "creator of the witcher"
Haha. This will be something to watch. "Publisher/developer who did one decent thing in the last decade will team up with developers who made one good thing and whatever idk open world."
Can someone just make a story based pirate RPG. With the same quality as RDR2?!
Does this "Former CD Projekt RED staff" now become the new phrase that replace "From the developers of The Left 4 Dead"?
i feel like the Dying Light games are mostly fun to play but are sorely lacking in the narrative department, they should just focus on a gameplay driven game with flavor text and background bits.
That’s cool and all but I’ll hold my enthusiasm….we’ve been down this street before and all we got was a car crash….I mean guys what happened to the rpg y’all announced hellraid
Techland are the crew behind Dying Light. The two of them together should make a proper Polish alliance.
I think for open world these are the wrong people. They should keep to what they're good at, linear story telling and linear "one way to solve" quests.
Turns out it's there HR department and they just get their wages cut by 75% and work 100 hours a week.
There's something off for me when I hear openworld. I think I'll never enjoy these type of games. I wish more linear games will become the "trend" again.
Oh so like Hellraid?
Hmm, oh yeah…
I hope it's really a RPG this time around and not another Open World Game with RPG-lite mechanics. Like, for actually good dialogue system where what you say actually matters, choice and consequences that actually change things and not only in the narrative/story departement but actual choice in your skill and abilities that change how you interract with the world.
Like, not having certain skill locking you out of content. RPG that's beyond Loot with different colors , levels and meaningless 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% stats increases.
What game are you referring to?
Ubisoft open world rpg
Ah gotcha
Reads this headline before Elden Ring: meh, not really into dialog trees.
Reads this headline after Elden Ring: ohhh, that’s my Jam!
It’s probably more traditional, but dare to dream.
Is it going to look as beautiful as dying light 2 does?
https://imgur.com/gallery/rGw8ycX
They somehow managed to make the sequel look worse than the first game. The world is so muddy and repeatable in DL2. :(
The game also looks a bit outdated without ray-tracing turned on. It didn't look much better than the original.
Right after dead island 2 right?
Dead Island 2 is being made by an entirely different studio.
Sumo and Yager still working on it like the last one but my bad, I thought it was tech land as well.
Cdpr botched cyberpunk, so no more cpdr
Bioware has destroyed mass effect and dragon age, so no more bioware.
Blizzard has destroyed a lot, so no more blizzard.
Bethesda and fo76, for so no more bethesda
Meanwhile indie dev's are fucking killing it
Fromsoft so far have kept a good record