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r/AntiZionism
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Herzl simp subreddit, post memes I guess. You may be looking for r/antisemitism 🇮🇱
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Hello! Welcome to r/GenZionism! We are a subreddit connected to a discord server, the North American Zionist Organization! We accept all who are willing to debate us. We accept Arabs, Christians, Africans, Asians, and everybody else. Anti Zionists are encouraged. Please debate us! Post about Israel, Judaism and other things related! You are also welcome to post about your country, Arabian coverage is encouraged! Have a great time in this server! Am Y’Israel Chai! 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
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An inclusive Jewish community based on progressive, leftist, anti-Zionist principles. Share news, discuss activism and ideas, and celebrate life. Allies welcome.
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A subreddit for breaking news and discussion concerning the British Labour Party, the broader Labour movement in the UK, and UK politics. The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party led by Keir Starmer, elected leader in 2020. It is the largest party in the UK with over 500,000 members, with a significant presence in the Scottish Parliament and the Senedd. If you're a Liberal Democrat, a Green or even a Conservative, you'll find us a worthwhile community to follow.
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This is basically a friendlier /r/Israel. Politics is welcome here, as long as it doesn't degenerate into ad-hominem personal attacks. Feel free to post anything you find thought provoking or that you might like to better understand. Above all, this is a place for study, reflection, and mutual support.
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Posted by2 months ago

I'm not Jewish or Israeli, but I wanted to share my thoughts here.

An analogy I came across the other day summarized it well:

It would be completely normal if my partner and I discuss whether we should have a baby or not.

But after the baby is born? I can't imagine anyone sane would even remotely consider discussing if the baby should exist or not.

Israel just marked 75 years, and has 10 million people. Lawyers, families, police, students, fishermen, Jews, Arabs, Christians, the full spectrum.

I haven't seen a single post on reddit, a comment or article in real life, about if any other country out there should or should not exist. Because that would be absurd. And many many countries are younger than Israel, and were born around much more injustice and death than Israel was even if you were to believe the most far-flung theories out there that criticize it.

Why then, is even "Anti-Zionism" a concept?

I'd love to hear someone try to help me understand this phenomenon. Can anyone share reddit posts with me where people discuss if we should "dismantle" other nations?

Because without any further explanation, it's seeming clear to me that Anti-Zionism is just the same old Anti-Semitism we've seen for centuries, under a vail of a new name.

____

CONCLUSION:

I was wondering if someone could genuinely help me understand a bit more of the Anti-Zionist argument. There were a lot of hateful arguments, some even making efforts to change history or current facts, which I take it as just reinforcement of the emotional, hateful, and likely anti-semitic nature of the Anti-Zionist belief.

Apart from these, it seems that the main issue is that there are varying ideas to what "Zionism" means. Some associate Zionism to the right wing expansionist policies, such as the Settlement program. Others see it as a fanatical religious doctrine about Jewish superiority over Arabs. Neither of these are accepted or shared definitions of "Zionism" as far as any reputable source can offer.... So my conclusion is that even these interpretations of Zionism are fueled by a pre-existing hateful narrative, that is clearly involved in anti-Semitism.

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Posted by4 months ago

One of the major problems with Anti-Zionism as a position is it is devoid of coherent ideology. Anti-Zionism basically represents an amalgam of different beliefs and views all United by their opposition to Zionism. Much like anti-communism can contain people with a variety of views ranging from absolute monarchists to to social democrats to liberal republicans, Anti-Zionism also contains this range of differing and sometimes opposing ideologies (Islamic theocrats, Palestinians Nationalists, International Leftists). This diversity may be good in that it helps create a large diverse coalition of groups which can help lend legitimacy to its goals. However this also leaves Anti-Zionism devoid of ideology and unable to concretely appeal to Zionists enough to convince them to abandon Zionism. The ultimate goal of Anti-Zionism is to convince Jews that Zionism won't work. Discounting the genocidal forms of Anti-Zionism, all anti-zionists seek to eventually end the Jewish state in some way, most through eventual dissuasion of Jews to Zionism. This is, in my opinion, the key area of failure for anti-zionists.

Anti-zionists have failed to properly articulate an ideological solution to Zionism or more specifically they have failed to answer the Jewish question. Anti-zionists have failed to solve the original cause of Zionism. Bundism originally provided Jews with the ideological alternative to Zionism, however most bundists died in the gas chambers, essentially proving the Zionist argument.

There is one more alternative to Zionism which is Haredism, essentially the embrace of traditionalism and simply to await the Messiah. But to increasingly secular Jews Haredism could not provide the answer, it's failure having been the previous 2000 years of history. The holocaust also somewhat dampened Haredism as an alternative (how could God allow this?).

This is all to say that modern anti-zionists have failed to respond to Jews with a coherent alternative, which specifically answers the Jewish question. The type of ideology which they wish to create might be termed Diasporism, essentially this would hold that the Diaspora is the key to Jewish culture and survival, as opposed to Zionism which hold that holds that Zion (the land of Israel) is the key to culture and survival. I have yet to hear a single argument from anti-zionists about the benefits of diaspora, or why diaspora is better than consolidation in Zion. Until anti-Zionists are able to create a coherent ideological alternative to Zionism, such as Diasporism, they will never be able to convince Zionists to abandon Zionism.

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Posted by4 months ago

The Multiplicity of definitions for being anti-Zionist allows the anti-Zionist crowd to remain ambivalent, inconsistent and most of all it provides a venue for hate mongers and antisemites to join. On the other hand, it has become so common to demand a specific/eloquent definition from anyone calling themselves Zionist/pro-Israel that many feel that they need to clarify with precision their exact position at the opening of any conversation they have. This has led to the fragmentation of the Zionist camp to the point that many who are absolutely against the destruction of Israel sometimes feel they need to stop calling themselves Zionists.

This double standard has become so prevalent that no one seems to challenge or even notice it anymore. From my experience, those calling themselves anti-Zionist include:

Those claiming Zionism is racism and that they oppose 'Jewish racism'/'Jewish supremacist ideology' whatever that means.

Those who oppose the existence of Israel in any shape or form and want Israel destroyed by killing and/or expelling most if not all Israeli Jews, and replacing Israel by an Arab country

Those who want to transform Israel into a majority Arab country by inundating it with new Arab/Muslim citizens without killing/expelling most or all Israeli Jews,

Those who think creating Israel was a bad idea but are against destroying it or simply resigned to accept they cannot destroy it for either practical or moral reasons.

Those who support the creation of a Palestinian state in the west-bank and Gaza without that being the end of the Palestinian demands and claims.

Those who support the creation of a Palestinian state as an end to the conflict.

Those who oppose Israel occupation of the west bank and construction/expansion of Israeli settlements there.

Those who oppose the 'Israeli right' or a specific Israeli government.

Other.

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Posted by7 months ago
Archived
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