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[–]mrlegomanTin 761 points762 points  (115 children)

I'm giving you a award for putting tldr at the top of your post instead of the end of it like a heathen.

[–]GemHunter008Tin | CC critic 125 points126 points  (67 children)

I don’t know how many hours OP took write this I would have taken days lol

[–]Ohms2North 78 points79 points  (2 children)

He's employed by Solana

[–]ethrevolutionBronze 6 points7 points  (0 children)

that would be odd because SOL is vulnerable to quite a few of these criticisms, too.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

This guy really wants us to know how much Cardano sucks.

[–]Mike941 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well let's see.... All that news about Cardano doing just a little less transaction volume than ETH for only 60k was a few days ago...

[–]siwel7 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That's because OP earns the big bucks (Moons) and us smooth brained plebs must gaze on with astonishment.

[–]PizzaClauseBronze | QC: CC 23 3 points4 points  (0 children)

LMFAO, you ain’t lying dude. I was super surprised to read someone say it.

[–]diarpiiiii 3 points4 points  (0 children)

came here to preach the same gospel. OP is my hero.

[–]arcalus 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The path was clear, but OP was the first to take it.

[–]chuloreddit 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Read it all to get to the tldr, then realize that you misunderstood it all.

[–]rzul94Tin 596 points597 points  (150 children)

Waiting for the "12 reasons why cardano will scale in 2022" post

[–]cmudoBronze | QC: CC 23 291 points292 points  (33 children)

surely its being furiously written as we speak

[–]Belmont_the_IV 117 points118 points  (24 children)

Coming Q1 2023

[–]AlwayswatchoutTin | ADA 18 32 points33 points  (12 children)

That's too slow!

Coming Q1 2024

[–]Suske10Tin 13 points14 points  (0 children)

You mean Ethereum 2.0?

[–]TheTreeOneFourSilver | QC: CC 21 | ADA 32 | ExchSubs 14 59 points60 points  (3 children)

It was already written like a week ago dude…this post is in response.

[–]OTA-J 45 points46 points  (41 children)

I wish some well-read Cardano developer could provide a point-by-point response to OP's arguments. I'm not knowledgeable enough to contradict/confirm his points.

[–]castroliu 126 points127 points  (35 children)

As a plutus developer, and researcher in programming languages, op has lots of false assumptions about cardano, please read the research papers yourself. He tried to put the ethereum design into cardano architecture, they are different design philosophy, it's like you are complaining functional programming doesn't allow side effects like most object oriented languages do. I wish op can actually be critical and humble as he claimed to be.

[–]Stankoman 16 points17 points  (6 children)

I guess we will see what happens on Thursday sith Sundae swap.

[–]EarthTwoBabyTin | ADA 5 18 points19 points  (4 children)

as someone that is staking and investing cardano I can predict : tons of orders, 2-3 days waiting for a simple transaction. Then everyone will forget about sundaeswap and it will do OK. It will then be up to cardano to scale. As for the price, huge pump upon the release then back to 1.20 haha

[–]Longjumping-Tie7445Silver|QC:BTC213,CC134,ETH107|ADA54|PersonalFinance110 15 points16 points  (12 children)

You didn’t address any of the legit criticism though. Even if OP is biased, most of it is legit criticism that is presented in a biased manner, but not as biased as IOHK and Charles presents their shills. Now 2 wrongs don’t make a right, but there is a lot here that many people before OP have brought up and no one in the Cardano community addresses these concerns.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Feel free to elaborate.

[–]TripTryad 112 points113 points  (42 children)

They are listed in this post? The OP doesnt really say a whole lot. Just details a bunch of stuff on the roadmap and even OP himself admits will work (especially together) but then chides the team for not having implemented these things already.

If you seriously re-read the OP, not even he makes the claims that these solutions WONT SOLVE THE ISSUES.

This is why I like this sub though, if people try hard enough they can spin anything. OP basically says: "Yeah this stuff would work if implemented, but it should have been done already, and maybe you won't do them! This chain sucks!"

[–]NickTheBigFatDiggerTin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Regarding Input Endorsers and Pipelining, of course research needs to be done, no other eUTXO chain have implemented such things, and the analogue doesnt exist in accounts styled blockchain. You cant just copy paste code.

[–]TheTreeOneFourSilver | QC: CC 21 | ADA 32 | ExchSubs 14 60 points61 points  (9 children)

It was quickly obvious to anyone in the know about ADA that his arguments are largely superficial and without real knowledge of the ongoings of the project.

if he actually wanted to learn something he can watch the mid month update below

"what mithril allows us to do is allow a computer or devices without large computational ability like phones to validate the entire chain..." Literally directly from the video published 5 days ago.

"we are seeing an enormous number of projects that are nearing completion of development and are imminently preparing to launch" - John woods, director of Cardano Architecture

Updates and commentary on the advantages of the cardano blockchain from projects MELD, ERGODEX, BinarApps, Minswap, IndigoLabs all in the video.....How do people still FUD? Its crazy to me. Literally everything he brought up is touched on in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt48RqBEZcM&t=2s

[–]Rincewind42815 - 6 years account age. 300 - 600 comment karma. 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Devs are writing a response. It should be through peer review in 6 to 9 months.

[–]Laughingboy14 190 points191 points  (39 children)

This sub loves ADA again, so this is going to be controversial.

I have no horse in this race, so I'm grabbing the popcorn

[–]Wabi-SabibitchAnd btw you look fantastic in your boots of Chinese Plastic 55 points56 points  (1 child)

Cardanao pumps and all the love is back.

[–]LocksmithblokeTin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And the cycle goes on.

[–]Wise_Recover9576 22 points23 points  (7 children)

Popcorn has value because it can be used to so much

[–]squirrelly_birdTin 19 points20 points  (6 children)

Bullish on popcorn

[–]Ironmonger3Tin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it actually is a low calorie snack contrary to popular belief (if eaten without toppings of course)

[–]nik5016Platinum | QC: CC 83 | Politics 77 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Can't discuss politics, religion, or ADA without ruffling some feathers.

[–]wernermuende 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Where can I buy this popcoin?

Sounds promising!

[–]alimakesmusic 99 points100 points  (28 children)

I don't get this whole discourse going on in the comments, the majority of us are not qualified nor know enough of the tech side of things to even conclude/verify whether what OP is saying is true. There are all these developers working on Cardano, if there was a conversation addressing all these points then that would be somewhat fruitful but this here, this is getting us nowhere and is basically pointless. We all mostly don't know what we are talking about so should probably just not act like we do lol.

[–]hfmedPlatinum | QC: CC 35 | ADA 14 36 points37 points  (4 children)

Thank you, some people need a reality check. I'm a software developer and much of this is beyond my comprehension.

[–]syncphail 17 points18 points  (4 children)

OP isn't being intellectually honest

if he tried to argue any of his points on github they would be addressed instantly, alerting him what he is misunderstanding, his false assumptions and why his perspective is almost entirely flawed

but that isn't the point of this post, it's purely about FUD and scaring laymen

of course your FUD will have extremely limited impact without a bot swarm to upvote and promote it

unfortunately when it comes to $$$ this type of rubbish pays off - but it's only temporary as the truth always comes out in the end

[–]sayno2midsPlatinum | QC: OMG 202 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I genuinely feel sorry for you

[–]anchorschmidt8Bronze 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be frank, I really don't know one way or the other. The results will speak for themselves though. We'll see soon enough if Cardano is the next coming of Christ, overhyped trash or somewhere in between.

[–]yealloPlatinum | QC: CC 77 | ADA 23 3 points4 points  (1 child)

To me, it’s more of a wait and see situation. We don’t know anything until the technology actually develops. They claimed smart contracts would be impossible or will never be finished yet here we are. People are declaring ADA dead before it has even implemented the things they promised so I’m just waiting to see what the end result will be.

[–]mikeyg321 659 points660 points  (181 children)

I can’t ever imagine spending this amount of time to write something on a project that I am against

[–]Laughingboy14 375 points376 points  (45 children)

I can't even imagine spending this amount of time writing about a project that I love

[–]SanmiiguelTin 187 points188 points  (34 children)

I can’t even imagine spending this amount of time writing anything

[–]AvideyBronze 140 points141 points  (30 children)

I can't even write actually

[–]__gg_Tin 88 points89 points  (24 children)

I can't even

[–]Cryptic911Bronze | QC: CC 16 | r/SSB 7 64 points65 points  (15 children)

I can't

[–]olle317 50 points51 points  (3 children)

I

[–]gbersac 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I cannot can.

[–]thecaptainksTin 12 points13 points  (3 children)

I can't imagine spending this amount of time reading about a project that I love.

/s

[–]NobleEtherinvalid string or character detected 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I can’t imagine spending time commenting on a thread I didn’t even read

[–]Embarrassed-Rub8923Tin | TRX 17 2 points3 points  (1 child)

me neither but it's a chill eth post in disguise

[–]Positive_Court_7779Silver | QC: CC 118, BTC 35, ETH 27 | ADA 59 | TraderSubs 24 26 points27 points  (1 child)

I am a cardano enthousiast, but i much appreciate these posts. A lot of effort (unless copy paste from an article), and informative!

[–]Tatakae69 31 points32 points  (12 children)

I sure grabbed some popcorn to read a proper counter argument in the comments. But to my surprise, the popcorn has to wait a bit

[–]rmczppPlatinum | QC: CC 68 | ADA 15 | UKPers.Fin. 30 17 points18 points  (9 children)

I didn't, I love ADA and hold it, but OP did an incredible job here.

[–]Tatakae69 25 points26 points  (7 children)

I wanna say this too but by judging OP's post history (only FUDding ADA) , I have trouble believing that everything he says is true and not over exaggerated

[–]rmczppPlatinum | QC: CC 68 | ADA 15 | UKPers.Fin. 30 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Yeah you gotta be careful out there. I'll keep an eye on discussions going on here and look into it myself from there. I'm here for memes and shitposts though, this sudden extra homework is not appreciated!

[–]flyingforsythiaTin | ZIL 6 27 points28 points  (25 children)

Only Cardano, I swear. It's jaw dropping how much orchestrated hate has been directed at Cardano the past few months. It's like people are making money doing it. For so many crap coins out there in existence that deserve to be broken down in the way Cardano has been it really makes you wonder what the real motivation is.

[–]Always_Question 12 points13 points  (9 children)

Goodness. There is a difference between legitimate technical criticisms and hate.

[–]Logical_Mine_345Bronze | 4 months old | QC: CC 20 30 points31 points  (47 children)

op is really anti ada

[–]MetalFoxBTCPlatinum | QC: CC 116 | ADA 15 | ExchSubs 10 30 points31 points  (0 children)

But as an ADA holder he has got some points, that being said I do believe ADA has room for for improvement and I can't wait for things to move forward and up for Cardano

[–]PUFFINberriesTin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Look at his post history. All about ada competition and all ada fud

[–]chubs66 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Why not talk about the points raised instead of trying to assign motive to op?

[–]EffUtube 8 points9 points  (0 children)

So what, youre gonna let your fellow investors invest in magic dust?

[–]pwnti 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Except you shorted ADA for example

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Now do one for Ethereum.

[–]00_nothing 12 points13 points  (3 children)

So do i do the opposite of what this sub thinks and buy ADA today? I can never tell what the subs stance is on Ada. Always back and forth. Nice post though OP uncharacteristically informative for this sub.

[–]veritas1975Tin 17 points18 points  (1 child)

A tad early. The big FUD attacks were supposed to start tomorrow, when the congestion starts..haha

[–][deleted] 110 points111 points  (22 children)

You forgot to mention a lot of things

CIP-31: Reference inputs

https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/159

CIP-32: Inline datums

https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/160

CIP-33: Reference scripts

https://github.com/cardano-foundation/CIPs/pull/161

Progress on Hydra

https://roadmap.cardano.org/en/status-updates/update/2022-01-14/

Regarding, Mithril

What? This is straight gibberish. Mithril is obviously not a relevant scaling solution. Mithril is a solution to a problem that many other chains don't even have. Even Ethereum can run a trustless lite client. Wtf does that have to do with how slow Cardano SCs are?

Please read this. https://iohk.io/en/blog/posts/2021/10/29/mithril-a-stronger-and-lighter-blockchain-for-better-efficiency/

It can do signature aggregation. How would that not improve scalability??? lol

Believe what you will. DYOR.

[–]TheTreeOneFourSilver | QC: CC 21 | ADA 32 | ExchSubs 14 36 points37 points  (4 children)

I love it...was pretty obvious to anyone that follows ADA closely that OP has nothing but a shallow understanding of the project. Let this type of FUD proliferate and FUD the marketplace and the price. Further vindication for people in the know.

if he actually wanted to learn something he can watch the mid month update below:

"what mithril allows us to do is allow a computer or devices without large computational ability like phones to validate the entire chain..." Literally directly from the video published 5 days ago.

"we are seeing an enormous number of projects that are nearing completion of development and are imminently preparing to launch" - John woods, director of Cardano Architecture

Updates and commentary on the advantages of the cardano blockchain from projects MELD, ERGODEX, BinarApps, Minswap, IndigoLabs all in the video.....How do people still FUD? Its crazy to me. Literally everything he brought up is touched on in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt48RqBEZcM&t=2s

[–]EmilyfakedCancERyahoTin 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Stopped reading after he said Cardano has max 0.15 TPS. Goofus OP evidently lacks reading comprehension

[–]DavidKens 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thank you for this excellent reference! What a valuable contribution to this thread. I look forward to digging into these links.

Question: the GitHub links above are not links to active CIPs, is that correct? They are draft-proposals for CIPs?

[–]Fun-Midnight-2155Tin | ADA 8 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Ahhh, we are now in the Cardano can't scale FUD era. Last time I checked it can't concur and can do 1 transaction per block.

[–]TheBasikzBronze | QC: CC 19 72 points73 points  (6 children)

Thank you for the high quality post! ADA being my biggest position such fact checks are needed and necessary. I bought low enough so I'm just chilling and watching how the ecosystem develops. In regards to the TVL point etc, in my opinion we need a bit more time to see how it develops. Muesliswap has been live for nearly 3 weeks now, which is pretty short. Considering that it's completely new building on eUTXO. The first really usable ethereum dAPP took around 1,5 years or so too if I am not mistaken. Yes they are "behind", but it's a completely new way of building on a blockchain, so of course they are not the 20th ethereum and EVM clone. Could that fail? Absolutely. Also with the way they are supporting anf involving the community in development through their catalyst project is unmatched.

Lastly I agree that this year will probably show how the future could look like for ADA. Will they get traffic and get a piece of the DEFI cake? We will see, but right now, with not even the big hype projects launched, I think it's too early to judge completely.

[–]amygdaladTin | r/WSB 36 31 points32 points  (4 children)

Don't fall in love with an investment. Good luck

[–]TheBasikzBronze | QC: CC 19 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Cashed ~3 x of my initial invest near the peak. Thats why I am pretty calm about this gamble. Could go south very bad of course.

[–]TarkovReddit0r 40 points41 points  (26 children)

I think I’ve seen you a couple times now breaking down the negative side of Cardano with legit reasoning but I always had one question in mind - what crypto do you think would replace cardano then ? Or do you just see it as a project that doesn’t deserve to be that high

[–]KryptoArtTin 26 points27 points  (2 children)

what do you mean by ‘replace’? Cardano isn’t anything to anyone that needs replacing, nothing significant is even on chain yet..

[–]EffUtube 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This is one big thing to acknowlage. There is nothing running on the chain. And definetly nothing that affects anyone in any way.

[–]asoiaf3Platinum | QC: XTZ 22 14 points15 points  (7 children)

There are similarities between the promises made by Cardano and what you find in Tezos: * proof-of-stake L1s * on-chain voting: Voltaire for Cardano vs periodic elections on Tezos (already 8 important upgrades of the protocol that were voted for, with the Foundation abstaining!)
* formal verification of contracts and the chain itself: mentioned here for Cardano vs several projects in Tezos (Mi-Cho-Coq, foobar.land, both using the Coq proof assistant) * ongoing work on L2s: Hydra for Cardano vs Deku, zkRollups and optimistic rollups as well (a bit similar to Arbitrum IIRC).

This is not to say that Cardano is not an interesting long-term project. I personally hold both ADA and XTZ (among others), but I'm much more invested into XTZ because it's much more mature. But OP is right about the problems that Cardano is facing now, and that others already had to face. L1 congestion is coming for all L1 chains.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hail hydra

[–]Puzzleheaded-Mud7240Tin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bullish on 12 reasons

[–]eat-sleep-rave 10 points11 points  (0 children)

too short, didn't read

[–]SnoordleTin | ADA 10 21 points22 points  (16 children)

RemindMe! 300 days

[–]ryuubishiraBronze | ADA 12 17 points18 points  (6 children)

RemindMe! in 2 years

How has it been going with Cardano throughput and development?

[–]AbsolutBadLadPlatinum | QC: CC 601 50 points51 points  (14 children)

This is interesting. I don't think such a thoughtful write up deserves hate without counter arguments to your points.

[–]Antar3s86Bronze | ADA 41 34 points35 points  (8 children)

Simply the fact that you state that Cardano can only sustain a meager 13000 TXs per day proves that you didn't fully do your homework:

https://adatools.io/charts

There are currently already well above 100k transactions per day and a transaction on eUTXO can include multiple payments, so you can send multiple tokens to multiple addresses in a single TX:

https://twitter.com/richardmccrackn/status/1480945016336154624?s=21

[–]pileopoop 13 points14 points  (4 children)

You misread. He said sundaeswap was 47x slower.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (15 children)

Remember when Polkadot vs Cardano was a thing?? How is it that Polkadot lost the mcap battle but they were the only ones who absolutely delivered on what they promised to Token holders.

Parachains are live, moonbeam DEXs are popping up left and right with almost instant swaps and only a few cents in Tx fees. Now the DOT team is working towards true decentralization (although arguably they are already the most decentralized because every token holder gets to vote in how the protocol is developed).

Meanwhile both IOHK and SundaeSwap have felt the need to release statements basically warning users about “long delays or failed transaction” just because one DEX is trying to launch on ADAs blockchain..

Please make this make sense to me

Edit: a lot of people have messages me saying that ADA has more use cases than Polkadot because it is trying to secure partnerships with small African countries that do absolutely nothing for the token price…. So I guess I’ll just have to remind you that T-Systems (AKA T-Fuckin-Mobile) bought a “significant amount” of DOT to participate in the network and build out their infrastructure. https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/t-systems-mms-supports-polkadot-blockchain-ecosystem--643644

[–]nelusbelus 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'll tell you why. If you deliver what you're telling then people can't speculate on if the feature is coming or not

[–]Thevsamovies 11 points12 points  (4 children)

I think Polkadot is a great project but the "most decentralized" claim is absolute bullshit. Tezos and Cosmos both have on-chain governance. Tezos has the most decentralized on-chain governance system in the entire crypto space, easily.

Funnily enough, Tezos is practically what Cardano is trying to become. The Tezos model works and it's written in oCamL as opposed to Haskell but they are both functional languages and designed for "ease of formal verification" as the Cardano community loves to talk about. Obviously Polkadot will have an easier time getting more devs than each but it depends on what ppl are looking for. Tezos still has more devs than Cardano tho.

[–]Applejuicyz 13 points14 points  (11 children)

I have moved over to Lemmy because of the Reddit API changes. /u/spez

has caused this platform to change enough (even outside of the API changes) that I no longer feel comfortable using it.

Shoutout to Power Delete Suite for making this a breeze.

[–]aSchizophrenicCat 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The medium article gave stats based on test net performance. What you linked were all solution design research pre-testnet.

“That being said, keep in mind that the results below represent ideal conditions, in low-traffic testnets. The actual throughput will be less as we share the network bandwidth with other protocols, and reinforces how critical the race to a Layer 2 solution will be”

The medium article highlighted how transitioning to mainnet will not involve ideal conditions, as Cardano mainnet is high traffic and they expect even higher traffic once they go live on mainnet.

Really wish I could just quote the medium article, but yeah, their account looks to be suspended. OP didn’t misquote them with the .15 TPS figure though. That medium article even mentioned to be prepared to potentially wait days for a swap to go through, and that they were adding a feature for users to cancel orders if they didn’t want to wait hours or days for an order to go through.

So what you linked was all theory based research / proposed solutions. What the medium article talked about was the current reality of the situation.

[–]Shaitan87Silver | QC: CC 62, ETH 22 | ADA 34 | ModeratePolitics 556 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You should put "" around the high in "Cardano mainnet is high traffic", because it's not high traffic by most measures. It's high for Cardano because it's been a ghost chain and their max tps is so pathetic.

[–]TheWavefunction 5 points6 points  (1 child)

If you actually used Cardano in the past month, you'd know it's been at 99% / 100% load many times. I experienced barely any degradation of my experience. NFTs and native assets move smoothely in and out of wallets and transfers take 10 minutes maximum. It's just hilarious that you spent A LOT of time making this hit piece on a project that you clearly never use.

[–]Wilder54321 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m just here for the comments.

[–]diarpiiiii 2 points3 points  (1 child)

this is a really amazing and comprehensive description of Cardano from a lot of different perspectives. Am excited to share it with people in the Cardano community outside of reddit and have some further discussions about it. It seems in some respects there is an emphasis on IOG/IOHK/Charles to determine the overall direction of things. Which, in practice for things like hard forks, it is one of the least decentralized aspects of the entire ecosystem. But at the same time, the level of innovation happening organically right now among creative developers is a steam engine full of energy. And is really fun. So, for me, if there's ever a community of people I've been a part of that could weather such a storm, it's certainly this one. Personally I am working to build a library on Cardano this year using the amazing UTXO and native asset composition of the blockchain. For things like content distribution and electronic publications, it's a very inspiring time to be creative and work to build. From my vantage point in the creative kitchen, the future direction of this third-gen bChain is less defined by its founders and leading organizations (such as the Cardano Foundation), and more so nourished by the creative application of the tools that already exist in the ecosystem. Either way will be an exciting year, and all eyes are certainly on Sundae Swap to see if the whole chain just explodes like a TV dinner in the micro. I will still keep cooking in the kitchen, and having fun building on Cardano in interesting, important, and (key-term) fun ways. Thanks for the post OP!

[–]pikeymikey22Bronze | QC: CC 16 | ADA 9 32 points33 points  (4 children)

understood. load up on ADA.

[–]DrinkMoreCodeMore 33 points34 points  (10 children)

Reminder just check out OPs post history.

They are a straight up Cardano hater lol and only it in for moon farming

https://old.reddit.com/user/Awhodothey/submitted/

[–]M00OSEPlatinum | QC: CC 1328 14 points15 points  (5 children)

Oh boy…grabs popcorn

[–]TNGSystems 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Interesting you say that about Sundaeswap claiming Cardano is so slow considering here’s an actual Sundaeswap dev fixing a bug and then reporting that cardano can operate 29 swaps per minute compared to Ethereum Uniswaps 19/minute.

[–]N1AKPlatinum | QC: CC 204 12 points13 points  (0 children)

A useful addition, although I'm not sure if it contradicts or confirms the OPs statements. SSwap is talking about the TPS for their DEX at a period of high demand on a chain that has generally low congestion vs the actual average TPS of a single DEX on ETH with high congestion.

[–]KryptoArtTin 18 points19 points  (0 children)

29 operations, not swaps.

[–]Real_Happy_PotatomanPlatinum | QC: CC 147 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Can't be a target of DDoS attacks if you DDoS yourself.

[–]boba_tunnel 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Is this post peer-reviewed?? Asking for a cardamom friend.

[–]BlackjointnerD 74 points75 points  (48 children)

Its always funny to me how one guy thinks hes smarter than a entire multi billionaire dollar company full of literal geniuses who have been working on this project for like a decade.

Im sure everything is going to be ok with cardano.

EDIT: Theres not 1 perfect blockchain in this space. Everything is literally a work in progress. Get over it and place your bets. They all have problems that are being worked on. Calling out a few of them doesn't make it illegitimate. That is the true reality check.

[–]DavidKens 27 points28 points  (4 children)

I’m a holder of Ada, not sure yet exactly how I feel about this post.

But surely - multi billion dollar companies full of geniuses make failed products all the time. I hope Cardano isn’t one of them.

[–]__gg_Tin 68 points69 points  (4 children)

I have a stake in ada.

But, your entire premise about a billion dollar company is wrong, think about theranos and when everyone thought it would work out. It had geniuses as well but their intentions were something else.

[–]Gr8WallofChinatown 8 points9 points  (0 children)

a entire multi billionaire dollar company full of literal geniuses

Yet they fucked up plutus and couldn't even see the issues of UTXO... Right.

[–]pbjclimbing 22 points23 points  (2 children)

The issue is that your “multibillion dollar company” is “multibillion” based on hopes, dreams, and marketing. It is not based on the product.

[–]EffUtube 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Haha geniuses.

Thank you for your feelings and opinions. They wont however get people to invest in a project thats doing nothing and performing worse then advertised.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (5 children)

I'm glad this comment was made because it shows EXACTLY the thought process you'd need to invest in a project like this. "These guys know what they're doing, it'll be fine" to any legitimate criticism. There's been so many red flags, the biggest of which is smart contracts being launched and almost no one using them or planning to use them. It's a huge disconnect from investors to developers which suggests this chain is going nowhere fast. Charles and the team isn't necessarily interested in making a quality product, they're interested in profit.

[–]Awhodothey[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

This must be your first year in crypto.

[–]Tatakae69 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Based on OP's post history he makes FUD on only ADA. Man the hate is real

[–]Awhodothey[S] 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Not true. I regularly FUD VET and XRP.

[–]lVloogiePlatinum | QC: CC 44 | r/WSB 34 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Lol what a counter comment. So don't criticize or have any thoughtful debate about any chain then? Just pick your horse and pray.

[–]lib3rty47 6 points7 points  (2 children)

So Theranos and Nikola engineers/scientists would like to disagree. You can have large amounts of money with "genius" contributers and still be a sham.

[–]legixs 25 points26 points  (16 children)

As a Cardanian I would agree, put the Hydra release a proper 6 months further back and say it will scale in 2023. Good enough for sure.

Let's see if ETH has POS by then XD

[–]strongkhal 30 points31 points  (21 children)

I appreciate you took the time to write this but Cardano holders are immune to FUD. I don't care if it's 2022 or 2030 when we scale but we will

[–]Laughingboy14 33 points34 points  (16 children)

Surely this is the wrong way to view this post?

If OP is right, then ADA is worse positioned than its competitors to scale. Surely instead of ostrich-ing you should re-evaluate your position?

Alternatively, OP is wrong and you should point out why.

(This came across slightly more combative then I'd like, sorry)

[–]Seraphinwolf 13 points14 points  (4 children)

^ This. If that’s the case it means developers find frustration and go to other blockchains to build on. Solving a problem late can often be worse than solving the problem at all.

[–]isaksvortenSilver | QC: CC 129 | BANANO 57 4 points5 points  (1 child)

In it for the long run

[–]el_wiwi_de_la_cumbiaTin | 2 months old 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’ll give you one reason and one reason only.

  1. It’s Cardano

[–]tobypassquarant 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Competition breeds ingenuity.

Everything was fine when they were the only ones in the crypto space with a development plan, but now they are actually being credibly challenged by newer projects, they need to come up with something to solve their issues. This is only the first step.

[–]1v9nwinningBronze 2 points3 points  (0 children)

!RemindMe 365 days

[–]junkieradioTin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Time to buy some Cardano.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow, pretty damning write up, Cardano holders better tread carefully. Glad I dumped it at $2.82.

[–]Independent_Region64Redditor for 3 months. 7 points8 points  (0 children)

yawn

[–]kousikrTin 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Sad to see all the baseless hate towards OP. If you disagree atleast post some legit counter arguments.

[–]zzeekip 18 points19 points  (3 children)

You really don't like cardano do you? Anyway enjoy your moons.

[–]SenatusSPQRPermabanned 11 points12 points  (10 children)

I've no dog in this game except for that I think Cardano centralizes over time, just wanted to correct this:

Also, fees are how slow chains keep from getting Ddos attacked (RIP🏴‍☠️ NANO)

There are other ways to stop a Ddos attack from having any effect, it's possible to have feeless spam resistance.

[–]Jpotter145 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It seems most everyone in crypto think spam resistance requires fees..... and they think this because they think the DDos attack killed nano off.

Well it may have killed the hype, and as a result diminished it's momentum and therefore it's potential..... but Nano is very much alive and seems to have solved the spam issue. It's a shame nobody seems to know of the solution they developed, of which every other chain could benefit from: a feeless spam mechanism

(for those interested google Time-as-a-Currency and PoS4QoS)

[–]Mastashake714Tin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I don't understand all the hate and fud Cardano gets. But the Solana network has been shut down multiple times, and polygon got rektd a week ago with the hack. But sill get all the love bizarre.

[–]JDayhoff 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Knew this was coming. As soon as ADA does well in the markets compared to anyone else, you know there will be a post trying to make it look undeserved. Scaling has been addressed so many times by the development team and we will see if the changes soon to be implemented in 2022 will fix it. This is just moon farming.

[–]ConmanSpaceHeroPlatinum | QC: SOL 164, CC 54, ETH 54 | BSV 8 | TraderSubs 48 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Great post. I don’t hold cardano anymore but I think detailed posts that work to analyze issues in a somewhat comprehensive and detailed manner is critical for discussion and clarity.

It’s unfortunate that if negative prose affects your bags you’ll immediately dismiss it. Would like to see a debate on the subjects you touched on but if what you say is true then it would make sense that they would want to sweep these issues under the rug.

Hoping Cardano can fix its issues but they seem to cut pretty deep.

[–]Smaash_April 25, 2022 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Thank you for the monthly ADA FUD post. See you again next month.

[–]The_TenshinhanSilver | QC: CC 309 | ADA 33 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Love it or hate it. ADA is here to stay.

[–]ElephantOk4804Platinum | QC: CC 306 | BANANO 9 17 points18 points  (12 children)

I havent read such god tier post for some time now. Thanks bro. I never actually bought any Ada, shame on me, I know. Just didnt had enough money, already at 10 coins in my PF...

[–]M00OSEPlatinum | QC: CC 1328 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Honestly amazed that I was able to follow most of it despite my somewhat limited knowledge in the technical aspects. Well written, OP!

Still on the fence though and would prefer to see Cardano and it’s ecosystem in action before making judgements.

[–]klimaukTin | EOS 6 5 points6 points  (0 children)

FUD

[–]Sugar_PhutMoon Daddy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My bag thinks you’re wrong

[–]KiLoX_676Tin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So many misleading statements without any sources and continually jumps to conclusions.For example, he goes on a long tirade about fees and how you need them to avoid being ddos'd. But he leaves out some important info. First, if a transaction is constructed incorrectly, it gets rejected outright. For smart contracts, if the transaction is valid but the code fails, there IS a fee that's incurred. So it would become very expensive for someone to waste network resources the way he's describing, but he conveniently left this info out. His post is full of crap like this.https://docs.cardano.org/plutus/collateral-mechanism

edit : all of his posts are full of hate towards ADA

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Look at his post history. How can anyone take this seriously and upvote this so much?

Six days ago he said that Sebastien Gallimot (from dcSpark, formerly worked at Emurgo) oversaw Hydra development and Nicolas Arqueros (from dcSpark, formerly worked at Emurgo) was former Cardano VP of Design. Hydra development and Cardano design is done by IOG which neither of these fine gentlemen worked for. They haven't worked on these things at all, it's not even remotely true. He only lies about this to make his argument look stronger because he is wrong. See: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/s36hlm/comment/hsqpwue/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (13 children)

Most of this is patently false. Solana holders have been shaken, not just by the major loses they have incurred, but also, by the shady network, that has already been hacked and taken down within the last few months. There is no simple fix to the security issues that Solana faces either.

These attacks on ADA are every more reason to invest in it. The reason for the above post is because they are scared, otherwise you would not see these type of erroneous posts.

This is exactly the type of rhetoric that was circulated by manufactures of Horse carriages when the first cars came out, they were fierce in their attacks. They knew their business model was under threat, and they knew they had to attack, and they were fierce. This is what is going with ADA today. Competitors know its viable, rather than compete, they resort to attacks.

[–]Vgta-BstPlatinum | QC: DOGE 57, CC 24, SOL 15 | TraderSubs 10 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hey man great research. Just wanna let you know. I didn't read any of that.

[–]Specialist_Olive_863Silver | QC: CC 63 | ADA 27 5 points6 points  (1 child)

1/2/3. Cardano has almost the same blocksize as Ethereum, but their blocktimes are different with ETH having faster blocktimes of 13 seconds according to the link you posted, while Cardano has a blocktime of 20 seconds which means even at similar block sizes Cardano will still require less space then ETH. Also increasing blocksizes is not the end-all scaling solution. I don't know too much about the tx sizes in bytes, so if you could share me where you got your data so I can read up on it that'd be awesome. And yes even though block size and times are the same, having 20tx's in 1 allows you to effectively complete certain transactions at the same time instead of having 20 tx that might not get into the same block. It can matter because there's no front-running you can't pay more to have your tx go first, so submitting multiple tx's in one makes sense if you want to get multiple tx's into the same block at a constant fee across each transaction.

I also agree that Cardano's scaling can't be fixed by simple parameter changes. Like any L1 including Ethereum. Your post is about how Cardano can't scale. But so far what you have mentioned is how Cardano HASN'T scaled. The numbers that Sundaeswap gave are of course what's possible at current parameters, not including the upcoming CIP's and more parameter tweaks. One CIP of course is for Plutus Script references which align with your mention of Plutus scripts being bloated. The CIP is there to allow devs to reference scripts instead of adding those scripts in every tx. There will be more optimizations as well, hardly "can't scale" as mentioned. You said can't scale, then all you told me was what's possible at current parameters, but leave out all the other bits that are actually there to help scale those parameters. Each upgrade listed by Cardano works together and isn't independent. A comes alongside B which allows for C.

  1. I believe it was said that the research was done and that it's just translating that research into code. The research proves it works, but you still need engineers to build it. Anything engineered doesn't come out smoothly the first time even with the best of plans. So it takes time. Just because you have perfect plans to a skyscraper doesn't mean you can build a skyscraper in a day.

  2. As Plutus will go through optimization, so did Solidity over the years. It requires help from the community who are building apps to help point out what needs to be done to help them move along. I don't believe that there were any blockchains out there that released with perfect programming platforms. If you go to their gits you'll probably find a lot of issues. The only thing is that they aren't as publicized as Cardano's.

Now you mention that Cardano will always have larger tx's and the plutus reference scripts are supposed to help fix the bloating and inefficiency. So you mentioned the solution but then go back to measuring tx sizes as though the solution you just mentioned didn't exist, and followed that up with on-chain SC when the reference scripts are going to be available with the upcoming CIP's.

  1. If you think of it in the long term node upgrades are a scaling solution once Hydra is implemented. Lower node requirements allow more people to run stake pools and that means more Hydra participants which also means more scaling.

  2. I don't know much about Milkomeda so I won't comment on it.

  3. Hydra is also outside of my technical expertise. But this was posted today on the IOG Technical Community Discord by KtorZ. "The implementation on the Hydra Head protocol is on track and progressing well. We are soon to make a bit more of our roadmap public in the form of Github issues and projects. This should give more visibility to those interested in building solutions on top of Hydra Heads." So we will be learning more about Hydra coming soon. The engineers are still building Hydra based off the research. Academic research doesn't give you codes, they give you mathematical proofs, but it takes an engineer to create the code to follow those proofs which isn't as easy as it sounds. Again, KtorZ has iterated they are building the foundations of Hydra. "It's a building block to enable more complex solutions." It's the first step. Again doesn't say Cardano can't scale.

  4. What's your problem? You somehow seem to turn something good into something bad with that statement. How desperate are you getting?

  5. "Another significant advantage is using Mithril signatures for running sidechains. The main blockchain can connect to different sidechains that can even have different consensus protocols." I like how people just take stuff at face value impose it over something else making assumptions and not read about the solution. "Mithril can boost full node data synchronization ensuring speed and decreasing resource consumption." You can't put a V8 engine into a shoddy car and expect it to not fall apart. You need to improve everything else all-round to push the scaling of the L1. If not you're just going to "crash" when you push the chain when your validators and nodes are already maxed out on resources. People are so ready for L2 scaling that they forget if Layer 1 goes, Layer 2 goes. That's why it's called layers, can any L2 solution work when the L1 is down?

Might I remind you guys that Sidechains and L2 solutions weren't developed by Ethereum? Eth 2.0 with sharding is the only scaling solution ETH is actually building.