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FOCUSED-DISCUSSIONBasic Attention Token BAT (self.CryptoCurrency)

submitted by joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416

I plan to post about a different crypto daily for a while to help to promote discussion and ideas, and also to help myself and others learn more.

Clearly, no one can predict the future, and nothing here should be taken as financial advice. However, I am sure there are some valuable personal opinions out there, and there is definitely an entertainment value in reading stuff like this.

Regarding the crypto of the day, Basic Attention Token, I am curious of the following...

Currently at $0.28 after a significant market drop recently, and this past week topped out at $0.3202.

What do you predict over the next month?

What do you predict for the end of 2020? 2021? 2025?

Anyone here suggest investing 50%+ into this project? Or is this in at least your top five or top ten crypto?

What should we all know, good and bad, about this project?

Unless anything drastic happens to this project, or the crypto market in general, what is likely the floor?

It seems people are likely to post the positive in each project, but please remember that critical insight is just as useful. 

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[–]frenchpublicBronze | QC: CC 19 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I love this token and see a real future for it. I also own a bit of BAT. It's the only cryptocurrency I use every single day, and not for trading. I'm earning BAT through Brave and tipping every week. I'm very bullish on BAT and a lot of that has to do with how great the Brave/BAT team is.

[–]mnbuckeye87Bronze | QC: CC 20 | VET 304 | Superstonk 48 26 points27 points  (3 children)

I think they need to do a better job building an ecosystem within Brave. They need to design a way to do subscriptions on things like streaming service, news organizations, non profits, then hustle to get a few big names in each to sign on. Also a wallet integration like PayPal etc. where you can pay anywhere online using BAT.

The Brave browser is excellent, and my primary one since they launched, but BAT being only usable to the end user as a tipping coin isn't enough. They need to think bigger.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They are currently working with some partners for paywall solutions. They are also looking into ecommerce solutions. Being able to pay for dVPN services and earning BAT for mining in the browser is also on the table. The browser was just the trojan horse. You didn't think it was only for tipping did you?

[–]jkr1119Tin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I bought it for advertising it will have more uses..

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Their ad blocker is not so effective thought

[–]reddotygTin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Personally it's one of the most interesting and tangible projects in the crypto space. I am already using Brave browser for most of the browsing stuff. Once they find a way to use BATs for subscriptions and paywalled content it will be unstoppable unless Google makes the same move.

[–]schism1Platinum | QC: BTC 151, CC 33 | TraderSubs 19 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Credit This Report

Overview

The Basic Attention Token (BAT) is an Ethereum-based ERC-20 token that works within the free, privacy-focused Brave Browser, an open-source web browser that has over 8 million monthly active users. Brave focuses on blocking ads and website trackers while also emphasizing data privacy and allowing users to get paid in BAT for their attention and ad viewing. The primary use case of the BAT token is to serve as the incentive mechanism and medium of exchange (MoE) that rewards users, websites, publishers, and content creators without relying on the current default method of surveillance capitalism. The design of the BAT-powered ecosystem is predicated on removing intermediaries in the online advertising marketplace and preserving user privacy. It rewards users, provides better margins to advertisers, and produces higher revenue yields for publishers.

BAT Strengths

  • BAT token is paired with the very successful, privacy-focused Brave Browser, an open-source web browser that has over 8 million monthly active users

  • Created by Brendan Eich, creator of the JavaScript programming language and co-founder of the Mozilla Project

  • Very clear and easy to understand use case; BAT presents a solution to the problem of surveillance capitalism and the traditional frictions/intermediaries of the current digital advertising model

BAT Weaknesses

  • Current iterations of the Brave Browser and BAT payment system are very centralized as they are both run by Brave Software Inc.

  • Usage is quite low currently, daily transaction remain an only approximated 1,500 per day

  • Contentious ICO led to very few individuals actually participating in the launch sale, some estimating less than 200 people total

  • While user base is growing, Google Chrome remains the dominant web browser by a very large margin

  • Concerns around value capture of a utility token in closed ecosystem

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I really like this format and will definitely refer to this website in the future as I do my own research.

[–]BoyScout22Platinum | QC: CC 55 9 points10 points  (1 child)

i don't know about price, but fundamentals are absolutely rocking. https://np.reddit.com/r/BATProject/comments/f61rgv/the_asahi_shimbun_one_of_the_largest_news/

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Thank you for that! It is funny how my first crypto I posted was initiating discussion on Tezos, and people contributed right away. Cosmos was yesterday and almost no one joined in. Now within a few minutes, you already posted regarding BAT.

Pretty much everything I have read so far regarding BAT is extremely positive and promising that big things are likely ahead. I look forward to seeing what everyone else posts...

[–]krippsaiditwrong 6 points7 points  (7 children)

To be honest I just don't see the point and I don't like the idea of watching ads for meager amounts of money and I don't like the notifications that were spammed to me for meager amounts of money. Might be useful for people in poorer areas of the world, but the whole thing gives me a headache. Being able to tip a website is nice though.

[–]Jake1231940 / 23K 🦠 14 points15 points  (1 child)

You don't watch ads, it's a little notification in the bottom right of your screen that you can either, dismiss, click on or ignore, end result is the same, you get the BAT.

[–]krippsaiditwrong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had the notifications sent to my phone too. And yeah I always dismissed them but I didn't like receiving them at all. I was being paid to get spammed essentially. No thanks.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Those "meager" amounts add up. Im already sitting at $150 and i have been using it less than a year. I have tipped far more online than I did with the old system too.

[–]Myrkull214 / 214 🦀 6 points7 points  (2 children)

How TF do you have 150? I've been using it as my only browser on PC and my phone since it released, have the ads set to Max on both, and have less than $40. Am I doing something wrong?

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Like I said, those "meager" amounts add up. I have had BAT ads since May or june of last year.

[–]Myrkull214 / 214 🦀 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm just shocked you have almost triple what I do and I've been using BAT since the ads were in the developer version.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like these coupons for supermarkets that force you to buy from specific places and give you back 1% max. The headache doesn't worth it.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 9 points10 points  (24 children)

As with many projects, I don't see why this use case required a dedicated token rather than just paying people with an established cryptocurrency. I also fail to see how the business model can generate a sustainable circular economy.

People get paid from Brave's BAT reserves to watch ads. People either dump the BAT or tip creators who dump the BAT. What happens when Brave's BAT runs out?

If I've gotten this wrong or someone could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

[–]Odin_The_ElkhoundPlatinum | QC: CC 72 14 points15 points  (9 children)

Unless I'm mistaken the BAT comes from advertisers. Basically they are paying the people who see and interact with the ads instead of paying Google and Facebook. I love the idea. Admittedly don't know enough about the tech to know how well implemented it is but it seems quite promising to me

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

I also like the idea very much. But again I don't see any upside, other than a pump and dump roller coaster, of having a dedicated token on the Ethereum blockchain for this specific purpose rather than just using an established crypto. It seems like it would be more sustainable as a tool within the wider cryptocurrency economy, instead of a closed loop with dodgy supply/demand assumptions.

If someone brought out a browser which had a built in wallet facility to tip creators and receive small payments for attention or tasks/surveys in some widely used crypto I'd be all over it. Bitcoin, Monero, Eth, Nano, Grin... whatever floats your boat.

[–]aesthetik_Platinum | QC: ETH 18, ADA 84 7 points8 points  (2 children)

There are already a number of native web paywall type solutions for content consumption that use ETH - and work very effectively and also many tipping functions for almost every token.

The answer, interestingly, is to do with the circular economy you described, but is most to do with ensuring the viability and sustainability of the team and company developing and administering Brave. Browsers don’t make money unfortunately.

Whether you agree with this approach or not, in a sea of charlatan and naively ambitious ICOs - Brave is one of the few teams who have turned much of the vision they sold into a reality.

Obviously they’ve got a ways to go, but promising.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 0 points1 point  (1 child)

to do with ensuring the viability and sustainability of the team and company developing and administering Brave. Browsers don’t make money unfortunately.

Whether you agree with this approach or not, in a sea of charlatan and naively ambitious ICOs - Brave is one of the few teams who have turned much of the vision they sold into a reality.

Interesting point. I really do like the browser overall. Pointless utility tokens just leave a bad taste in my mouth. Ideally development could be funded by donations or a consortium of advertisers who believe in the vision and want to cut out the middleman.

[–]aesthetik_Platinum | QC: ETH 18, ADA 84 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Correct, bu who does the business development to create this consortium? It’s an age old chicken and egg problem that the ICO boom and its “Kickstarter for companies” promised to solve.

Spoiler: almost all of them didn’t. But there’s still a lot of merit in the approach! I’m guessing we’ll revisit it again shortly as a community, but with a lot more scrutiny and sensibility.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 3 points4 points  (4 children)

So let me get this straight? You didn't know where the BAT came from and you think they need to use a more widely used crypto like nano or grin? You do realize that BAT is more widely used than those tokens? It sounds like you want them to use your bags. Also the option to fund your BAT wallet with uphold supported currencies is coming. So you can deposit bitcoin or eth and its converted to BAT so you can tip. BAT also predates nano btw.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I don't own any nano, never have. My Grin "bag" is around the price of a lunch. The coins I suggested were examples of ones which aim/claim to be general digital cash, rather than utility tokens.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

and BAT cant be used as digital cash? It actually has users. Good luck getting someone to self fund a wallet full of grin or nano. Those coins will never be used as payment coins, and i say that with sincerity.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Those coins will never be used as payment coins, and i say that with sincerity.

Why? I have several criticisms of both but they each have tangible benefits and active communities.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Active "speculator" communities. There are only 7m active bitcoin wallets, and most are used for speculating. Very few for actual payments. The one thing cryptocurrency users can't seem to grasp is that outside of their bubble nobody is actually using it for anything, and there is way too much friction. Brave is building the crypto on ramp for people that are not exposed. Its all about UI/UX. Nobody wants to manage 45 different wallets and be signed up on 7 different exchanges. With Brave you can earn while browsing or top up your wallet with a credit card to pay for your subscription, get past a paywall or, buy something on an ecommerce site or tip a creator etc etc. 4 years ago I sat down with people trying to explain how to use ethereum, and they needed to be walked through a 2 hour long process of exchange registration,ach transfers, erc-20 wallet addresses, market orders etc etc. Nothing has changed at all. Its all way too complicated, and some people even say brave is too complicated.

[–]Stobie30 / 5K 🦐 6 points7 points  (4 children)

Advertisers need to buy and pay with bat to advertise to people using brave which is intended to be the bulk of the demand. It's good they have their own token rather than using ETH since it can have it's own price rather than the whole system be effected by the price of eth, works in with their l2 and makes measuring the metrics of attention very transparent and simple to all parties involved.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

So advertisers buy BAT at market value to give to Brave in order to run ads on the platform. Brave gives the BAT back to users for watching the ads. Those users either dump the BAT or tip creators who dump the BAT.

But the advertisers will only advertise on the platform to the extent that it improves their sales. If a good chunk of the users are only watching the ads to earn and dump the BAT, they are not high value advertising targets.

I don't see how the demand from advertisers to use the platform could outstrip the supply of people dumping their coins in such a closed system.

[–]Stobie30 / 5K 🦐 10 points11 points  (2 children)

As with any market it will reach an equilibrium so that doesn't really make sense. If what you said was happening then the price would drop and it would reach sustainable equilibrium again, that's one of the reasons it's good they have their own token. As for determining if there's any sustainable value to the system compare it to Google ads where Google takes over 70% of the many billions advertisers pay. That's now going to content creators and viewers, and it all survives with the Google setup so it should thrive even more without the leech. Advertisers can pay less or get wider impact, content creators earn more or have less ads, users keep their privacy and get less disruptions from ads. Improving efficiency like this is what crypto is all about.

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 2 points3 points  (1 child)

There would end up being an equilibrium of price, sure. But I don't see why money would keep coming into the closed system. The kinds of people who will watch a 2 minute ad for a fraction of a penny are not high value advertising targets, and the vast majority of people will not choose to watch optional ads for a pittance. Ad blockers caught on for a reason and the truth is that has less to do with people's dislike of Google or FB and more to with people's dislike of ads in general.

As far as making an efficent market, isn't Brave still a clunky middleman here? Wouldn't it be more efficient to just have a widely accepted standard for wallets built into browsers which could be used for tipping/surveys/attention/tasks as the two parties see fit with some multi-purpose coin which they can earn or spend in the wider economy?

[–]Stobie30 / 5K 🦐 11 points12 points  (0 children)

There are no two minute ads, they're just OS pop-ups. Brave browser isn't a clunky middleman, it's arguably the best browser with excellent ad blocking. They do take some income but it's negligible compared to Google. I think some people will like supporting the content creators they like viewing and will enable the ads which are just OS popups at no effort or monetary cost to themselves. The income is probably a lot less than you're thinking, it's not worth doing it for personnel profit.

I think there's problems with your proposal that brave solves. Who's going to create it for free? Would any content creators want to mess around finding advertisers or would they prefer brave to sort it out? With brave they just get money automatically. If brave is taking too much for their service then they'll be replaced and forked, it's largely open source. All that really matters right now is that it's an outright improvement over the status quo for everyone so what is there to complain about?

[–]PhroobRedditor for 3 months. 2 points3 points  (5 children)

What do you think happens when their BAT runs out? Brave buys more of it. That’s the circular economy.

[–]nolaughingzone671 / 4K 🦑 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Brave is not buying them. Advertisers are buying them so they can show ads and reward viewers. Some viewers are buying them so they can watch and own content. Content creators are likely the only ones selling them - but also holding some BAT so they can promote their content. Some “ad viewers” are selling them - but they will soon realize that it’s not much and will likely just keep them in wallet to use later. That’s the circular economy. Token needed so BAT can be converted into $ - so the reward system feels more material.

[–]PhroobRedditor for 3 months. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Advertisers are paying Brave in dollars, then they go and buy the BAT

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Circular economy, you say?

So Brave uses its income from something to continually buy back its own BAT at market value, just to keep giving it out to people for watching ads on their platform?

[–]1Frollin12K / 2K 🐢 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Isn't the income from the advertisers themselves?

[–]Same_As_It_Ever_WasPlatinum | QC: XMR 373, CC 26 | r/Politics 25 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes that's the idea. But as far as I see it, adblockers exist for a reason. The numbers of people who will willingly watch optional ads (even for a small payout) is not significant. And more importantly, the sorts of people who will watch a 2 minute ad for a fraction of a penny are not the sorts of consumers who will provide a good return for advertisers.

[–]HighFivePuddy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As with many projects, they needed to raise money so they minted an unnecessary token and sold it.

[–]SilverHoard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They need to enable ads for more European countries. I don't use it because it's not worth migrating over all my tabs and windows without the rewards.

[–]gld6000Gold | QC: CC 171, BTC 92 | r/NVIDIA 16 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When we talk about "Cryptos and use cases", BAT is way ahead of thousands of coins.

I wouldn't go heavy into it as an investment, but a small percentage of your portfolio could do alot worse than be in BAT.

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am thankful and impressed at all of the information and insight everyone is sharing!

One question I wish I included in my initial post;

What percent of your portfolio is BAT currently?

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Before I recently started looking into different crypto projects, I have never even heard of BRAVE. Does the average Joe know about it? Are they promoting it, or waiting? Most people I know use Google Chrome, while some still use Firefox or Internet Explorer. People get set in their ways. I may try BRAVE just for something new.

It also sounds like some people feel the tokens are not going to do well, even if BRAVE is a superior browser. I guess only time will tell.

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Here is a video on BRAVE and BAT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSADtFd1Rs&t=3s

I found this interesting.

I am left with questions though...

One is, it seems at 20 to 25 cents per BAT, it seems unlikely this is a project that will get people rich? I mean, even if BRAVE ends up being the best browser out there, I do not see people getting paid a more than a few hundred bucks per year to view ads. I might be wrong though.

Also, it seems many people may use BRAVE but have no interest in BAT and just skip that part?

It is too bad a person cannot buy BRAVE and skip the entire BAT thing. :-) I am probably missing the point though.

[–]ShpasmTin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I barely post but felt I needed to here. You can download brave for free and also turn off the rewards. The privacy and speed are the main selling points to me. If you opt to go with the rewards you get the added perk of getting paid to do the same thing you’ve already been doing. Those pennies add up quick. I just switched from Chrome and started using it this week and gotta say it was an easy transition. You can even keep your Chrome extensions.

As far as getting rich—you never know with crypto...

[–]ShpasmTin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I barely post but felt I needed to here. You can download brave for free and also turn off the rewards. The privacy and speed are the main selling points to me. If you opt to go with the rewards you get the added perk of getting paid to do the same thing you’ve already been doing. Those pennies add up quick. I just switched from Chrome and started using it this week and gotta say it was an easy transition. You can even keep your Chrome extensions.

As far as getting rich—you never know with crypto...

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Led by Brendan Eich (creator of JavaScript and co-founder of Mozilla), Basic Attention Token (BAT) project is an open-source, decentralized ad exchange platform built on the Ethereum platform. The project seeks to address fraud and opaqueness in digital advertising.

The token aims to correctly price user attention within the platform. Advertisers pay BAT to website publishers for the attention of users. The BAT ecosystem includes Brave, an open-source, privacy-centered browser designed to block trackers and malware. It leverages blockchain technology to anonymously and track user attention securely and rewards publishers accordingly.

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I really like how this is initially set up, and look forward to more of the big picture things down the road. So far, BRAVE is considered by many to be the best internet browser out there. BAT seems fairly limited at the moment, but I feel there are a lot of uses for it down the road. The team also looks legit. This is also already further along than many crypto-related projects. I plan to hold 10-15% of my portfolio in BAT.

[–]erisiamkBronze 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have a small amount of BAT solely from using Brave (roughly 1.5% of my portfolio). Therefore I have diversified my investments and I'm not a BTC maximalist shill. /s

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (14 children)

As soon as brave browser allows people to withdraw the bat price will plummet.

[–]rk0rTin 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You can withdraw... you link an uphold wallet to your account then transfer to your coinbase .

[–]mickmon1 / 4K 🦠 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or you know.. an actual cryptocurrency wallet.

[–]Rhamni36K / 52K 🦈 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Isn't it quite likely that KYC will always be required for withdrawal? I mean botting is a legitimate concern.

BAT tokens earned can already be given to content creators without KYC, and you can buy BAT on exchanges without KYC. The only time it's needed is if you want to withdraw tokens to another address of yours or exchange.

[–]nickmac22cu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How much of the current total amount of coins are in users wallets right now?

[–]lucasin0Gold | QC: ARK 35, CC 31 4 points5 points  (0 children)

People are upvoting this , smh

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see no incentive or purpose of this token.

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

There are more concerns regarding BAT than I expected. I appreciate the insight and information everyone is sharing. It sounds that many find the project interesting and the Brave website is above average, but the token aspect has many concerns and potential downfalls.

This sounds extremely similar to something I heard of some years back where people put links into a community and those people all kept clicking those links to earn points/credit. It seemed they are likely were extremely low income, and often unemployed. People would just spend countless hours clicking links mindlessly. I wonder if BAT is going to mostly draw the same clientele.

I am definitely going to give Google Chrome a break and give Brave a try though.

I may still put some money into BAT, but nearly as much as I originally planned to.

However, it seems fairly safe to put money in when it drops to $0.25 and then sell at $0.30. If I do this with $10,000, then I will make $2,000 before any fees. It seems like the right market to flip projects like this to make some quick money. I understand there is a risk though.

Anyways, I see this as a short term potential, but not as much for long term.

[–]usethebravebrowserPlatinum | QC: CC 112 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is a long term token, not a short term token. It is in no way comparable to your link clicking site either. The ads are rate limited and they pay on a cpm basis which is cost per 1000 views. The idea behind it is that the ads draw your attention more than google banner ads, ad fraud is minimized, the attention is more measurable, and the user has given consent to be advertised to in a privacy preserving manner. Don't listen to all the trolls here trying to paint the "token not needed" or "token velocity" narrative. The same argument can be made for every coin. The difference is that brave actually has 12m+ users a working product instead of a "mainnet" and big advertisers and publishers are already on board.

[–]joenorwood77Platinum | QC: CC 416[S] -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

I am a newbie so please keep that in mind as I make my best guesses regarding Basic Attention Token...

For the following numbers, I am using $10,000 as an investment.

Over the next month $0.32. $893 profit before fees.

By the end of 2020 $0.35. $2,500 profit before fees.

By the end of 2021 $1. $25,714 profit before fees.

By the end of 2025 $5. $168,571 profit before fees.

I am just throwing numbers out there and have nothing to back them up. I know I likely have higher predictions than most people. This is just to help facilitate a discussion and I do not suggest anyone follow this as financial advice by means. If you disagree with my numbers, feel free to make your best predictions as well...

Even if you divide my numbers in half, this is still a nice profit. And if you do not want to talk about the numbers, I will still appreciate if you can discuss something about this project.