Bitcoin Vs. Bitcoin Spot ETFs: the great illusion has started. Beware.

CointestMod · 2024-01-12T10:00:16+00:00

Bitcoin pros & cons with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

Simke11 · 2024-01-12T11:01:31+00:00

Not many people want the responsibility of self custody and I don't blame them.

RandomPlayerCSGO · 2024-01-12T10:06:35+00:00

You are right, but still, making it more popular as investment is a step towards popularizing and it will also cause more people to use it as it was intented to be used.

M1st3r51r · 2024-01-12T10:46:05+00:00

Yep greed is guiding me. Sue me.

emp-sup-bry · 2024-01-12T12:23:38+00:00

A little culty, bro

MyNi_Redux · 2024-01-12T09:52:49+00:00

In short, this means you need to understand that Bitcoin is much more than just another financial investment!

You will likely find that this understand increasingly becomes the minority, because the welfare of one's wallet requires one to reject this stance, and treat BTC as another speculative asset class that hopefully returns sufficient risk-adjusted returns.

pHo22 · 2024-01-12T12:18:09+00:00

bro 99.99% of people who hold/buy btc absolutely don't give a shit about what is it or how does it work or what does it stand for. They don't care about the fiat system, libertarian/freedom politics, views or whatever. The majority would probably support big banks and governments as they are today. People are gambling and simply looking for a profit. They do not want to "adopt" anything.

nathan4845 · 2024-01-12T09:47:42+00:00

I’ll make whatever I can out of it and ring the bell on the way out.

memescryptor · 2024-01-12T10:47:06+00:00

Mass adoption my ass. Most people see crypto as ponzi and scam. Even in Switzerland, where crypto is quite popular, except the people who are into it, most see it as ponzi. Realistically speaking, I don't think Bitcoin will have mass adoption anytime soon. In poor countries people use crypto because banks are not safe at all, but still they only use it to transfer money.

Exciting-Sort-9766 · 2024-01-12T13:33:35+00:00

Im just imagining some 10th century viking saying the same thing about gold. How you need self custody of your gold. How clam trading is a flawed and unfixable system, right before they raid a seaside village lol.

90% of people dont care about Btc's purpose or ideals. Its simply a digital store of value they speculate will appreciate in value. Literally nothing else. So yes, greed.

tubbana · 2024-01-12T13:06:37+00:00

bitcoin is lottery, fun and games, nothing else

baeiby · 2024-01-12T11:49:43+00:00

Getting rich > Mass adoption

That's pretty much it.

IsThereAnythingLeft- · 2024-01-12T11:34:21+00:00

Ironic mentioning paying fees that have no reason the be paid, just like using the BTC network lol. It also sounds like you think BTC can work as a currency, that is accepted as false by even the biggest maxis so you may catch up

Anxious-Durian1773 · 2024-01-12T13:35:37+00:00

God this is cringe.

Listen, I'm fully on board with the philosophy and promise of crypto, but stepping out of my own mind for a sec and reading this screed makes you look like some kind of Bitcoin cult priest or something. You need to tone it down and moderate your messaging with reason and explanations if you want to change any minds. This is about finance and economics, you can't just proselytize; you have to treat your readers with respect or you're just wasting everyones time.

Ilovekittens345 · 2024-01-12T12:08:48+00:00

Bitcoin aims to free us from these intermediaries who abuse people's trust and make people pay fees that have no reason to be paid.

Lol, Bitcoin frees us from paying fees? In what world do you live? Bitcoin Cash yeah, but not fucking Bitcoin.

HarrisonGreen · 2024-01-12T17:14:23+00:00

Bitcoin will never get mass adoption. Not anymore, when it is too expensive for the average person to use. It is now a plaything for the rich and the institutions.

criminalmadman · 2024-01-12T11:40:52+00:00

Adoption won’t start until self custody isn’t such a minefield, you’re forever reading about people having their funds drained from their wallet on the crypto related subs on Reddit. Until the experience is simple and pain free the masses will stay away.

flyingalbatross1 · 2024-01-12T12:30:15+00:00

The ability and possibility of BTC being the one which revolutionises personal self custody finance and transactions died a long time ago.

It's simply not possible for BTC to fulfil that purpose now (and no, lightning network won't do it cos it's total rubbish). Other ideas and projects will do it.

The BTC spot ETF was the final nail in the coffin of converting BTC to a store of value/scarcity commodity.

jam-hay · 2024-01-12T10:13:03+00:00

ETFs are just another phase in the global adoption of Bitcoin, it needs price stability to become an actual currency and reduced fees which these things bring over time. The volatility index is reducing and the lighting network is improving. We're not there just yet.. adoption still has a way to go. The HODLers are corner stone of baseline stability at the moment we need this phase to eventually realise satoshi's dream and gift of decentralised peer-to-peer currency for the world outwith Central Bank control.

Sithaun_Meefase · 2024-01-12T15:01:25+00:00

There are people who invest in a 401k from a salary job that matches retirement, they would lose over half to transfer to real BTC to the IRS. buying the ETF lets them park their cash in a BTC price equivalent until they can retire and move their 401k into real btc and not lose half their retirement savings. I agree with your sentiment, but to lose half of one’s retirement savings is foolish.

Windows98Fondler · 2024-01-12T15:09:52+00:00

Well, it’s the financial managers finally recognizing they have to have theirs and the only way to do so is this way.

Bloomberg host called out equity managers yesterday for buying themselves, but not giving their customer funds exposure and said they are front running their own customers. Just take a step back and recognize, we are at day one.

Look at how far adoption has come in ten years. Wait for another ten starting from today, we are about to witness a mass transformation in the global economy. Larry Fink literally today said he sees the whole market getting tokenized. Like what!? That was a dramatic flip. I expect in the next three years we will see at least a few more ETFs around ETH and rumors of a Ripple and Litecoin one also.

Keep buying, it has begun. The managers of society have realized if they don’t create an illusion of exposure, they will have to compete with individuals just doing self custody, which destroys their whole business model.

ZLOWTOV · 2024-01-12T15:22:17+00:00

From the people I’ve talked to about these new BTC ETFs is that it’s just a way for people to invest in BTC without actually buying BTC. And that the only security these ETFs are tied to is BTC. What is confusing me is why people are so stoked about buying a centralized version of a decentralized currency. Not only that, but now it’s tied into one of the most treacherous markets. The stock market. I’m not shitting on these new ETFs. I believe they will have their day. But I think this is just another way for the government to put the reigns on BTC. Which is a step backwards for the currency.

mcgravier · 2024-01-12T15:35:18+00:00

mass adoption of Bitcoin by the general public has started...

Mass adoption ain't happening with +50 dollar fees per tx, this has nothing to do with ETFs

IAmSomewhatDamaged · 2024-01-12T16:03:13+00:00

Greed is the only thing guiding me and I’m not ashamed to admit it. My goal, when investing my hard earned cash, is to make as much money as possible. I respect anybody who is trying to form some kind of “movement” with digital currency, but life is short and I just want to retire comfortably one day.

FlagFootballSaint · 2024-01-12T16:42:00+00:00

BS

The idea of Bitcoin being a revolutionary invention is long dead. The idea of "not your keys, not your coins" is long dead.

It's an investment asset like any other.

We are here for one thing and one thing only:

MONEY

Superduperbals · 2024-01-12T16:45:54+00:00

If it's considered valuable because it's a decentralized currency, with a finite supply, that can be used in transactions anonymously across borders without regulation, and side-stepping our toxic dependency on state centralized currencies and multinational banking corporations... what even remains of that post-ETF ?

With an ETF you get a share of a BTC fund, the IRS will be the first to know, bankers can issue as many new shares as they want - BTC scarcity be damned. ETF popularity will reflect nothing onto BTC trade volume, only direct liquidity away from the market itself and into the bankers pockets, who you are now 100% dependent on to protect your investment, and the real kicker is that you can't use your ETF investment for any transaction, the only off-ramp is fiat currency, which BTC is supposed to circumvent.

How did Bitcoin become the polar opposite of what it was supposed to represent? I wouldn't be surprised if Satoshi himself decided now was a good time to dump his bag out of heartbreak and rage.

What makes Bitcoin any different now than any other random volatile penny stock? Degenerate day traders wouldn't even buy into a penny stock if the product was a dark parody of what it represented. It's like investing in a health-tech company that only sells WW1 surplus hand grenades.

A jealous or threatened banking industry and govt. actors couldn't have organized a better hit job on the crypto market. There is nothing good about this and no apparent pathway for BTC to actually go up in price because of any of this, if anything it threatens the exchanges and stablecoins the most, the ETF cuts them out, what will BTC be worth when Tether folds?

kironet996 · 2024-01-12T23:42:57+00:00

Where are the 🤡 that were yelling we're making new ATHs with god candles when ETFs are approved?

mining-ting · 2024-01-13T02:46:35+00:00

Anyone saying they dont own bitcoin for profit is a liar.

Yea i hope its the future but were all here for a real reason...

nachtraum · 2024-01-12T10:13:09+00:00

It will help to on ramp more people. Most people do not have a good understanding of Bitcoin when they do their first buy. You experiment with buying a bit, have a good experience, buy a bit more, get more interested in the tech, learn more about it, etc. It will help to overcome initial hurdles.

Shaykh_Hadi · 2024-01-12T10:49:57+00:00

Bitcoin ETFs are necessary for the boomer generation to get into Bitcoin and for Bitcoin 401ks etc.

Myloz · 2024-01-12T10:27:40+00:00

Lol, no. Bitcoin is just there to pump and dump and feed more money to the already rich.

cheepyeep · 2024-01-12T11:12:22+00:00

I hear you brother!

My even bigger concern beyond Bitcoin, as it is at least PoW, is an Ethereum ETF. What happens with any PoS protocol if all of a sudden someone like Blackrock holds a big amount of tokens? Will they use their voting power in DAO decisions?

Maybe time to buy some ETH PoW

TNGSystems · 2024-01-12T12:22:01+00:00

I think you’re approaching this from a binary viewpoint but really both things must be considered that Bitcoin can be both a fantastic vehicle to give people true ownership of an asset, while also being a fantastic investment vehicle to build real and tangible wealth.

Being one doesn’t preclude it from being the other.

lostharbor · 2024-01-12T13:20:54+00:00

No one that needs to hear why to avoid ETFs is going to hear this. You posted this in the wrong sub.

Also not wanting others to fill the ETFs thus your bags is kind of a funny thought too

skyHIGH-1 · 2024-01-12T13:21:39+00:00

Investment Money that could have poured into bitcoin is poring into BTC ETF . a way for governments to make profits of you 🤦🏻‍♂️.

2024-01-12T14:31:29+00:00

Big bro thinks he’s part of a revolution. I could care less about separation from the state. Those fucks own my ass in more ways than just money so it’s doomed either way. I just want to finally be able to live comfortably.

SatoshisButthole · 2024-01-12T14:39:52+00:00

I own Bitcoin in cold storage. Enough that I feel comfortable moving forward with this amount (though I'll never stop buying). But my time horizon is verging on forever. If I can't comfortably retire on it, I'm not selling.

That being said, we live in a fiat world and I need it to live. I would like to take some profit but I don't want to touch my stack. So Ive been buying a Bitcoin ETF in my tax free savings account so I can DCA out (hopefully) near the top, and profit without having to pay capital gains. My plan is to DCA out, but keep the gains in my TFSA, then buy back in at the bottom of the next cycle.

My eggs are almost entirely in the Bitcoin basket, but I'm using the ETF as a way to grow my traditional portfolio. Win, win.

mightyminnow88 · 2024-01-12T14:44:02+00:00

You Van Winkled for at least 5 years. Nothing you wrote is remotely accurate. Case in point, is your 12 year old neighbor's rig pulling in a coin or two? Or is all the mining done by publicly traded corporations? The scammers and ransomallies sold you a stuffed penguin that can't even hold up to quantum computing. Assuming you don't live in North Korea, r-e-l-a-x and enjoy the ride.

JohnHue · 2024-01-12T15:52:13+00:00

The bitcoin ETF listing is just like any other crypto asset listing on any exchange (centralized or not), those are just products of our fucked up financial system, it's just tradfi's tools applied to a decentralized asset.

You're right pointing out that this is not what decentralized crypto currencies are about but it is still a step toward adoption. People need to trust in the value of the asset before even considering it's usefulness and ultimate adoption.

JustCommunication640 · 2024-01-12T16:16:37+00:00

People can use bitcoin as an investment or as a tool. Both are fine!

rubbishapplepie · 2024-01-12T16:45:11+00:00

This is a good take, basically wallst is fully in control again and can divert money into their products not the actual bitcoin. Etfs are their turf

Sensitive_Play2475 · 2024-01-12T17:53:23+00:00

So you distrust the institutions behind the ETFs but you're fine with Binance, Coinbase, etc... Seems weird to me

celmate · 2024-01-12T18:28:47+00:00

99% of people in this sub care about Bitcoins ability to increase the amount of fiat they have.

Very, very few people in crypto give any fucks about undermining the global economic system or whatever other libertarian ideal.

If crypto was only bought by those people, Bitcoin would be a dollar.

andre3kthegiant · 2024-01-12T21:27:00+00:00

“Only greed has guided them…” lol that is funny as hell….it is a “coin”…..lololololo

randomFrenchDeadbeat · 2024-01-12T21:33:16+00:00

In short, this means you need to understand that Bitcoin is much more than just another financial investment!

And YOU need to understand that if the general public decides it just is another financial investment, thats what it is going to be.

greenandycanehoused · 2024-01-12T22:01:02+00:00

Time for this ponzi scheme to blow up, deflate and then ask why is btc valued in US dollars when it isn’t legal tender?

PapaPump223 · 2024-01-13T01:14:57+00:00

Why the fuck does the OP's post have so many upvotes? This is some maximalist, idealistic nonsense to the extreme. Do you want Bitcoin to go up or would you rather have your imaginary vehicle to FIGHT THE SYSTEM.

Brooklyn_Q · 2024-01-13T13:55:49+00:00

I don’t think anyone anywhere gives a shit about Bitcoin’s “true purpose”. Everyone just wants to make money and get rich within the current global financial system.

Raj_UK · 2024-01-12T10:11:28+00:00

Are all US BTC spot ETFs backed 1:1 in the underlying asset ?

Individual-Willow-70 · 2024-01-12T10:17:04+00:00

You are all insane

LeoIsLegend · 2024-01-12T10:53:37+00:00

Bitcoin ETF is paper BTC.

Working_Violinist605 · 2024-01-12T10:54:21+00:00

🤡

bcmeer · 2024-01-12T11:12:02+00:00

“so-called Bitcoiners”

To me it’s an investment, like with stocks and other ETFs.

You do you with Bitcoin, but the majority just wants to make money man.

Harucifer · 2024-01-12T11:23:01+00:00

Bitcoin is the solution. Bitcoin is your way out!

Solution to what lmao. You're in a cult.

CoverYourMaskHoles · 2024-01-12T11:20:07+00:00

Big money getting in like this still makes it way more safe and secure to buy it on chain in a different country or for someone trying to unbank themselves. It also makes it way more profitable for miners.

I’m not someone that likes the corporate world, but I do like this. Not a single person has lost the option to buy it and store it for themselves.

DC600A · 2024-01-12T12:58:20+00:00

For noobs and greedy idiots, this sentiment holds true. But from another perspective, people who were not aware of Bitcoin or, did not take an interest in blockchain and crypto, will be exposed, albeit superficially, to the space. There will always be shallow profiteers but it is a great way to capture mainstream attention and adoption, and the percentage of people who will do a deep dive into the concept, scope, and utility, even though small, will be a gain. Money is always a great motivator, so, I say let people wake up to decentralized finance through the lure of traditional finance - it's a small step towards the right direction, the giant leap, if and when it comes, it will happen.

baby-einstein · 2024-01-12T13:17:36+00:00

Yeah the Bitcoin ETF is not good for the world of crypto, i dont get why people are happy about it..i mean i get they're happy because of price increase, but the whole point of crypto is not having big institution "control" it...Now that BlackRock has their ETF, Bitcoin and crypto as a whole will never be the same anymore.

arktozc · 2024-01-12T11:56:38+00:00

Im here just for money and profit, but thanks for article

LuganoSatoshi · 2024-01-12T10:44:27+00:00

these etfs are fake paper. And they wont bring mass adoption either. they are only good for people who dont understand techonlogy/computers

TomsCardoso · 2024-01-12T11:18:52+00:00

I'm in it 100% for the money, sorry not sorry

Individual-Willow-70 · 2024-01-12T10:17:19+00:00

Read the sec filings for ark

SnooHamsters8420 · 2024-01-12T10:27:34+00:00

I think that altcoins will really have to suffer but this it's only my opinion

SuccessOtherwise2760 · 2024-01-12T11:15:00+00:00

Until I hear someone lose 10 bitcoin to an ETF scam or 10 bitcoin were lost because they were transferred to the wrong address, I'm pretty sure the ETF's will be a success and not hurt anyone except all the overpriced exchanges.

I could be wrong but that's how I see it.

TimYapthebest · 2024-01-12T11:38:25+00:00

Bitcoin is a store of value now, that’s it :)

RaYZorTech · 2024-01-12T12:41:29+00:00

The Bitcoin Revolution is dead... Welcome to the Monero Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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