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EPISODE SPOILERS🌹 The Bachelor 🌹 Post Episode Discussion Thread (self.thebachelor)

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This season of The Bachelor is upon us...

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[–]PipingPloverPress 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Am I the only one that thinks we didn't need to know his plan to have sex or not? So childish. Just go into the fantasy suite and have that conversation in private. It wasn't a good look to begin with--made worse when he couldn't do it, and then felt the need to share. Ugh.

[–]Careless-Street-4391 5 points6 points  (2 children)

The whole point of this show is that we get an inside look into these people's dating lives. "We didn't need to know" doesn't make sense to me here.

[–]PipingPloverPress 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Actually what happens in the fantasy suites is usually kept private...at least during the show. Sometimes we hear after the fact. But they don't typically state what will or won't happen sex-wise.

[–]Careless-Street-4391 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah but being the reality tv show watching voyeur that I am, I'm happy to know as much as possible

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Anyone else get the ick when Zach got mad that Kaity wasn’t looking at him? I know he jokingly said something like “oh you can look at me it’s not that bad” but I thought it was written all over his face that he was actually kinda mad that she wasn’t looking at him. Am I the only one who picked up on that? Idk maybe I’m reading too much into it but his body language and the look on his face was like a major red flag to me.

[–]pizzaandboba 8 points9 points  (1 child)

he seems to think way too highly of himself. you can tell that he puts his own wants and needs before anyone else’s when women go to him for comfort from their anxiety or drama. it was amusing how flabbergasted he was after ariel’s brother asked him why she should choose him. he thinks he’s the prize. i’ve never liked him and i once again questioned the producers’ decision to make him the bachelor.

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely agreed!! 💯 His body language gives it all away to me. I would hate to see how he is when the cameras aren’t around

[–]Amznalltheway 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Was this when they were fighting after her told her about Gabi?

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I just went back and looked. If you’re watching on Hulu it’s about 54 minutes into the episode. Right after him and Kaity sit on the edge of the water and start to talk

[–]Amznalltheway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks.... CREEPY!

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Like right as he was telling her. When they were sitting with their feet in the water and he was starting the conversation, and she was looking down, and he said something like “it’s okay to look at me”. If I remember correctly, she had her head down kinda pressed against his chest because he had just said that he needed to talk to her about something. It was right at the beginning of their conversation when he first started bringing it up

[–]Amznalltheway 3 points4 points  (2 children)

That is totally weird. I went out with a guy very briefly that had a creepy vibe when I spent time privately with him and he was like come over here you can sit on my lap and I won't bite. I was creeped out. Then he went to show me his upstairs of his townhouse and there was a big picture of a stallion over his bed and he says I kid you not... see that stallion up there- that is me. I literally ran down the stairs and out the front door. I am sure you wanted to hear this story lol. It just reminded me of the same vibe. CREEPY!

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Omggg that does give off the same vibe! That’s so creepy glad you’re okay!

[–]Amznalltheway 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. Thank goodness I knew to run. I do think Zach has some kind of emotional intelligence deficit. It’s like he doesn’t read social cues properly- nor know how to deal with societal niceties (decency) for a lack of a better way of saying it.

[–]lorelai-39 32 points33 points  (4 children)

Idk guys the more time that goes by, the more pissed I am on Gabi’s behalf. I hate how people are talking about her, like she’s a toxic manipulator who forced herself on Zack and didn’t respect his boundaries. Zack made it super clear that it was consensual on both sides, and he seemed super happy with that decision until he remembered Kaity existed.

It’s obvious he’s going to choose Kaity. If I were Gabi I would feel used, embarrassed, utterly just garbage. She probably thought that them having sex after he said “no sex with anyone” was confirmation that she would be chosen in the end. That it would just stay between the two of them. So him coming out and telling everyone and seeking forgiveness is like a slap in the face. I don’t blame her for feeling like she has a scarlet letter now. And the way people are talking about her on Instagram is disgusting.

I don’t think Zack realizes what his actions have done to her and her reputation. He has all the power in this situation, and imo he’s abused it horribly. I’m wondering if him and Kaity had sex. We never heard anything about it. Is Kaity more deserving of privacy than Gabi? Seriously, I’m pissed at his blatant disregard for Gabi after being intimate with her. Fuck Zack. He’s a villain in my eyes.

[–]anotherbasicgirl 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Definitely don’t think he did with Kaity. After the rose ceremony when she and Gabi were talking Kaity said “I know you were the only one.”

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Absolutely agree!! He broke Gabi’s trust and boundaries and made her look like the bad guy when she trusted him. You’re spot on

[–]Careless-Street-4391 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

They must have discussed it beforehand? Or she should have clarified that she wanted it kept private. It's a show, I think the default stance is that there is no privacy unless you explicitly state/request otherwise.

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Im sure it was discussed during their night together. I’m pretty sure she said in one of the interviews during the show (I think they’re called ITMs?) she said she thought it was just between the two of them. And I remember her saying he’s confessing at the expense of her heart and trust. She definitely made it seem like it was supposed to be between the two of them. When she realized that he didn’t keep it between them, that’s what made her worry. That’s the impression I got for sure, and she definitely said it was supposed to be between just them two during the episode. Bottom line, the way I think about it is if he was gonna pick Gabi, then why even bother telling Kaity and Ariel that they slept together. They could’ve just kept it between themselves because they end up together anyway. Which is probably exactly why Gabi was so upset. I would be too if I were her. He misled her and broke her trust.

[–]SanJose_Seoul 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Jesse looks coked out and 3 whiskeys deep

[–]AppropriateMention6 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Why do you think Zach had sex with Gabi in particular? I must admit I just tuned into this episode so I haven’t seen the rest of the season.

But from the dates shown on this episode it seems like Zach had the strongest physical attraction to Ariel. They were very affectionate with each other and had obvious chemistry. If Zach had a problem resisting temptation, I would have thought it would have been with Ariel because on the date and in the fantasy suites it seemed they couldn’t keep their hands off of each other.

With Gabi, Zach seemed to show a strong friendship with her but their physical attraction didn’t seem as intense (that’s not to say they aren’t the best match, just that Zach seemed to be more lustful with Ariel). So why exactly do you think he gave in and couldn’t resist sleeping with Gabi?

[–]CutieWithaBoooty 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think ariel respected that boundary while Gabi did not and obviously as an attractive woman he has feelings for, she got what she wanted.

Although I feel giving her the second rose was a huge blow considering what she said about being picked second.

I think ultimately he will not choose Gabi tbh

[–]MyLifeIsABoondoggle 16 points17 points  (1 child)

There had to have been extensive off-camera discussion between Zach and Ariel. There's no goodbye this late in the game that clean cut. No major reasons he gave for why he wasn't feeling it, very little tears from either person, and altogether a very respectful goodbye that didn't seem to be at all bitter. I'd say their connection just wasn't as strong as either of them thought, but with his whole monologue spiel about "having boundaries" and "feeling like a failure" at the rose ceremony, there's no way that wouldn't have raised questions in Ariel's head if she didn't already know about all this

And it's already been beaten to death, but obligatory Zach is an idiot and immature. I understand why he went into the week with those boundaries, but if he was that easy to fold, he clearly needed to at least be real with himself before this week that it was something he couldn't do. He didn't need to tell Kaity at all, but especially not right at the beginning of the date. But at the same time, I feel like he felt the need and compulsion to tell Kaity because he respects and loves her too much and I'm pretty confident Kaity is the one at the end of all this. He'd never say it out loud, either to the girls or even to the camera, but deep down I feel like he probably regretted what happened with Gabi, which I feel like explained how he was acting at the rose ceremony

[–]Careless-Street-4391 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe it was just as obvious to Ariel as it was to us that she's not a front runner.

[–]mirimichelle 17 points18 points  (1 child)

God I’m so down bad for Ariel. Her trying new foods in the most graceful and polite way 😍

[–]Beckra1981 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me too! She’s absolutely gorgeous and seems very smart and sweet. She’s too good for Zach.

[–]Mommacharm 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ugh the editing of this show…. Makes it a show 😜

[–]StoneColdSteveAss316 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Zach messed up, what an idiot.

Seriously, when else is it normal for a man to bang 3 women, all of them pretty much know you banged them without it being considered cheating, and then sneak one away to be your potential wife.

All while getting cheered for it.

[–]edmgypsyChampagne Stealer 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Okay I Cannot be the only one that has noticed that he talks with his bottom teeth.!!!!!

[–]Helphelpimlost 26 points27 points  (2 children)

Zach is like a child that is trying convince you something ridiculous and keeps repeating himself until you finally give in because you’re so sick of him saying the same shit over and over again. Then he has this stupid grin on his face and he’s happy YOU finally understood why HE was right. He’s so tone deaf and doesn’t pick up on other people’s feelings and emotions. Unable to step into other peoples shoes or see things from different perspectives. What a massive red flag. Can you imagine him in an actual relationship and trying to resolve any kind of conflict with this idiot? Mental maturity is non existent with this guy.

[–]CutieWithaBoooty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I need to talk to you babe… Truth 5 of day 1 of marriage: A girl was nice to me today and she was cute and I feel bad I thought that:(

Pls forgive me

[–]edmgypsyChampagne Stealer 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And he talks with his bottom teeth!!!!!!

[–]Rice_Shotty 24 points25 points  (6 children)

I think Ariel was too good for him too ;)

[–]CutieWithaBoooty -1 points0 points  (4 children)

She will be the bachelorette, bet. Her or Greer

[–]anotherbasicgirl 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Lol or Charity who already met her men.

[–]CutieWithaBoooty 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I am deff behind 😂 but tbh charity is just as boring of a main than zach is.

Plus she always makes that face like she smells something bad. Regardless of that though, I do hope she finds love and is able to get that from being the bachelorette:)

[–]ada0123 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I just want to say something very general. I do not think Zach was intentionally malicious whatsoever, as he simply does not have the mental capacity for such activities. The women that were left were much too good for him, but they all were left scarred from past relationships. Maybe Zach’s love is all they feel they deserve, though this isn’t true. I wish the best for all of them, even Zach, meaning he realizes he is certainly not ready for a serious commitment and he needs to work on himself first.

[–]TheFantasySuiteKey 51 points52 points  (1 child)

  • He could have just NOT and everything would be fine. No one was holding him to this standard but himself and he couldn’t follow through. -It is gross that he threw Gabi under the bus after making her feel comfortable enough to engage with him in sex. To disclose that information to multiple people after doing something privately is loser behavior. Her respect and autonomy was thrown out the window. -Did he expect a prize or something? It was like he wanted to be called a good guy for abstaining.
  • It is very clear that his F1 is Kaity after the way he is already detaching from Gabi at the rose ceremony. I feel terrible for her. -Ariel came out with the real prize by getting out unscathed.
  • He doesn’t deserve any of these women.

[–]churchwithoutaroofsometimes bad bitches cry 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think that if Gabi was his F1, he wouldn’t have told anyone. And I think Gabi knew that too. Like she probably slept with him thinking that it was going to be her at the end so it didn’t matter. So when he ended up telling their secret, it made it very clear that it wasn’t gonna be her at the end. I’m sure in that moment she knew as well

[–]figcookiecapo 42 points43 points  (0 children)

the way he just focused on kaity and basically ignored gabi after the rose ceremony made me so upset. he gave her the second rose and then barely even looked her in the face.

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points  (0 children)

The issue with Zach’s abstinence promise was that he never really did it for himself. He thought it was the right thing to do for the other women.

So I think he expected the women to hold him accountable and agree with him. He thought they would appreciate him for it and that he would be the best bachelor ever who actually did things right! Lmao..

So when his “parameters” weren’t necessarily greeted with enthusiasm or total agreement, he was easy to break. Especially with alcohol and feelings involved, it would be pretty easy to convince yourself that it’s the right thing to do with that person in that moment.

And I 100000% expected Gabi to have that reaction. I knew she was going to take it as a rejection. And I think the producers banked on it too so that’s why they threw her in as second date. I would’ve expected Kaity to just agree with him and it would’ve been a non issue.

But Gabi was going to take it badly. She wanted the validation that she was special enough for him to break his rules for. I am definitely NOT saying she manipulated him. It was consensual and mutual. But she never personally agreed with his initial reasoning, and I don’t think Zach expected that pushback. So he was probably like oh wait if she’s actually down then👀…why not…

And if Gabi had been the last FS date instead, and he had managed to behave himself all week, I think she would’ve been happier to hear about his little parameters. I think she still would’ve tried her luck, but if his other dates had gone well, it would’ve been easier to uphold his promise since he would’ve had more at stake.

[–]spookyholiday101 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Anyone know where Gabi’s dress was from when Zach came to her room to talk to her?

[–]tkay29 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Not sure if Zach can ever earn full trust after breaking his word.

[–]Certain-Asparagus908 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Someone that sets such strict rules for themselves when no one even asked for that, but then can’t live up to them and disappoints you, is such a turn off..

[–]Oksana51 27 points28 points  (2 children)

Zach needed to get his rocks off and picked the vulnerable, insecure Gabi, it's as simple as that. OH please with the Catholic guilt trip, he's such a liar.

[–]No_Procedure_8314 71 points72 points  (5 children)

Well, that was bullshit.

Zach's an idiot, and he doesn't deserve any of the women—least of all, Ariel. She's way too cool and beautiful for him. I'm reminding myself he's done her a favor, because she deserves someone with more emotional intelligence than a doorknob. They all do.

[–]eg_elska_ketti[🍰] 26 points27 points  (2 children)

YES, Ariel is a freaking QUEEN and way too smart and definitely way too cool to settle for this milquetoast. He is the human equivalent of cardboard, which is safe and boring - and that's totally OK for a boring woman. I wish, so badly, that Ariel was our next Bachelorette (but, again, she would have a roster of douches to choose from) - she's going to thrive out in the wild and she will find a great partner. I have no doubt. Ariel checks ALL THE BOXES!

[–]Pretend_Dog_2253 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would love to her on paradise

[–]No_Procedure_8314 2 points3 points  (0 children)

YES agree 1000% to all this. I'd date Ariel if I could, tbh.

[–]yesandreas 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I doubt it happens but I’d like to see both of them tell him to kick rocks

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (3 children)

Zach felt guilty so he overshared and it just made everything worse. Sometimes it is better to be quiet and hold space for those around us 🤐

[–]FionnualaW 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I have a little bit of sympathy for him because this is 100% something I would have done when I was younger. I had to learn that generally when I want to overexplain something because I feel guilty, I'm doing it for myself and it's just going to make things worse. Fortunately for me, I did not go on national TV and date a bunch of people at once to learn that lesson!

ETA: For me, the worst part of it was that he didn't even talk to Gabi about how she would feel about him telling. Like it's not his information alone to tell, she should have a say.

[–]Certain-Asparagus908 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Totally. He shouldn’t have told Jesse and the world first without talking to Gabi first. Then he just bombarded her with the cameras like “I’m telling everyone, ok?” So awkward and difficult for her.

Sometimes if you feel guilty then you should be the one to carry that burden, not give it to everyone so they feel guilty too

[–]mmmacorns 27 points28 points  (0 children)

it was such a gross move. He should have respected Gabi and kept that between them. And then to go on to basically tell Kaity he’s a lying liar who lies…I hope he doesn’t pick Kaity just so she can go on and live her best life without that weird bs. Zach needs to grow up

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Can I ask not who he picks but is there a spoiler out about who is the final pick or if he pics someone at all does anybody know? Not WHO or WHAT actually happens but just is there a spoiler lol.

[–]bpurly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yes it’s been out for a long time

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes, there is a spoiler.

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 30 points31 points  (7 children)

I just…. Finished the episode and the more I think about it was a Fucking bonehead for telling Kaity then. He should have waited. He should have waited there were 2 people left.

What did you expect my reply to be Zach? Did you think this theough? No! He did it for his own selfish reasons… was really bad timing for this kinda convo.

God such a boner killer Zach. She knew he was gonna bone people just don’t tell her about it. Such a rookie move and it makes him seem so childish and like awkward teenage boy. It turns me off yuck … and he just didn’t get it. He couldn’t empathize with her. He just didn’t get it at all. And she spelled it out for him as why she wasn’t happy about his decision to tell her yet he still kept making it about him.

Edit: I’m softening a little. They handled that pretty darn well all things considered. I’m a couples coach so …try not to make comments from that angle but I can’t help it! Truly think If him and Kaity end up together they are off to a great start I mean it’s not an easy thing to work through for any couple let alone one on National Tv and they did okay! I wanted to add that edit bc I’m being hard on Zach so it’s not the full picture of how I feel. And Zach is overall a great guy and would pick his quirks over most other toxic traits (and most of the clients I see would not have handled this nearly half as well out of the gates) so I am being quite nit picky here in general.

Edit/ truth and honesty are things super important

[–]Certain-Asparagus908 2 points3 points  (4 children)

For me personally I would feel like it would be a rocky start to an engagement KNOWING that he slept with someone else so recently and made a big deal about it. If I just didn’t know what happened then fine, that’s expected on the bachelor, but to be told exactly what happened and that he felt guilty and all that.. ugh.. just a sour start to a relationship in my opinion

[–]bpurly 0 points1 point  (3 children)

but you would find out eventually right? i would absolutely have that conversation as soon as filming was over

[–]Certain-Asparagus908 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Hmm I think I wouldn’t want to ask. It’s the same with relationships, I don’t want to ask my husband about all his exes and who he’s had sex with, etc.

I think some people would rather know, but I know it would bother me so I’d rather just not hear about that.. especially if I trust that they’re a good person, so I don’t need to know all the details from their private life before me

But the bachelor is such a weird scenario because you’re literally dating the man WHILE he’s dating other people. Like multiple full on relationships at once 😵‍💫

[–]bpurly 1 point2 points  (0 children)

right but I would def ask if he fucked someone a week before we got engaged lmao. esp bc you will have to continue to interact with the people from your season. I would wanna know whether my fiancée had sex with my good friends

[–]Ponder625 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I agree with everything you wrote and I went on that same wild ride where I was so horrified that he told her but then impressed with the way they worked that out. Now we have to worry about Gabi being okay, though.

[–]jpeteypablo 74 points75 points  (12 children)

This was the most entertaining episode of the entire season.

My LAWD, did this man ever sh*t the bed. I can’t even comprehend how someone can make so many horrible mistakes in the span of one day 💀 that was willllldddd

[–]Certain-Asparagus908 1 point2 points  (1 child)

It was like sex threw him off and he was a MESS. lol. It’s like he knew that was going to happen which is maybe why he was trying to avoid it.. but then stick to your word! Either that or don’t rub it in anyone’s face if you did end up deciding to have sex? Like Jesus have some integrity

[–]jpeteypablo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The funny thing is, Kaity was right that most people kind of expect that from this week but DON’T want to hear about it. Like he should’ve just kept his mouth shut and everything would’ve been ok. Poor Gabi is now being slut-shamed by the whole world all because he couldn’t help but bring the drama??

[–]huggsypenguinpal 22 points23 points  (7 children)

literally. I just rewatched the Gabi scene, and I cannot believe after what he did, he also said that he was falling in love with her. Like WHAT?! Is that even true?! Why did he say that!?!??!

[–]jpeteypablo 15 points16 points  (6 children)

Yeah … it’s mind boggling lol. I also feel like he’s going to pick Kaity which makes it even more dumbfounding?! If he doesn’t pick Gabi now he’s going to look like suchhhh a jerk 😬

[–]huggsypenguinpal 15 points16 points  (5 children)

yes 100% i think he's gonna pick Kaity. If it was Gabi, it would have been their little secret, which would have solidified their relationship even more. But he freaked out because he felt he owed his F1 the truth, and thats not Gabi.

Has he even said he was falling in love with Kaity? I wanna say no but may have missed some parts of their date.

[–]sarah123yhave you ever considered literally shutting the fuck up 3 points4 points  (2 children)

They didn't show the morning after Zach and Kaitys FS night. He could have said it then, or maybe the bulk of the scene was too telling.

[–]huggsypenguinpal 3 points4 points  (1 child)

True, its suspicious they didn't show us any of that morning. but I feel like TPTB would totally show us if he said that he's falling for Kaity. Or make them reenact the scene without whatever spoiler makes it unairable.

[–]sarah123yhave you ever considered literally shutting the fuck up 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm so curious now why it didn't air. Maybe they'll show it at AFR! :)

[–]jpeteypablo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No I don’t think he has!

[–]huggsypenguinpal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

....this is wild. Bless Zach for this mess lol

[–]adm0210 49 points50 points  (4 children)

I think in some of the previous episodes that Kaity was his front runner and I 100% am positive that he just wanted to get this hookup with Gabi in before he was an engaged man. Since his time on the bachelorette he has been so concerned about how he is portrayed when in comes to his character but people with real character don’t do what he did in such a sneaky “nobody is going to notice” way. And honestly, I don’t know who got the worst end of the stick: Gabi being used as a fling or Kaity who he obviously thinks is so gullible and naive that she’ll just buy his fake remorseful act. Both women deserve so much better.

[–]ItsCalledRange 12 points13 points  (1 child)

But if he was using her and wanted to just get a bang in…why did he go around making the promise of no sex for all the ladies anyway??? Like he could have done it and no one would have been the wiser!

[–]yellowelephant3Black Lives Matter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gabby & Kaity are close. I think he was trying to settle things so they wouldn't be brought up after and cause more chaos

[–]ginns32 24 points25 points  (0 children)

When Gabi said he was looking at Kaity the whole time after giving out the roses she was right! Gabi might as well not have been standing there. I felt bad for her.

[–]pinkflowerz 10 points11 points  (7 children)

Does anyone think Zach and kaity had s*x on their museum sleep over?

[–]Amznalltheway 19 points20 points  (3 children)

I thought maybe but then I heard her on an interview say that at some point he just says goodnight and she thought she misheard him so she keeps talking and says it again. Doesn’t sound like it got too sexy.

[–]pinkflowerz 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Based on him initially wanting to keep him and gabi having sex between them, I could see them having sex and not telling anyone

[–]Amznalltheway 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Then I think too, he would not have made a deal out of no sex for FS week if he already had it. Just deduction.

[–]pinkflowerz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notice how when he told the ladies he always said ‘just for this week’ plus if he knew from the beginning it would be kaity, maybe he was fine with it

[–]skltnhead 58 points59 points  (0 children)

In what world was it a good idea to tell Kaity that he slept with Gabi? How would the outcome be anything other than the two women feeling hurt? Oh but he had a guilty conscience so at least he felt better. Give me a break

[–]pennyruthgadget 60 points61 points  (0 children)

I wanted to throw things at the tv. Zach creating this entire mess. Making the girls feel bad about themselves. Being that guy who feels guilty so he tells you what he did to relieve his conscience but just makes you feel worse.

[–][deleted] 61 points62 points  (5 children)

Anyone else notice they didn’t show the morning after his overnight with Kaity?!

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 13 points14 points  (2 children)

They didn’t with Rachel either in Matt James season ‘…maybe that’s a sign

[–]AloneAssistant5326 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I had the same thought!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

👀

[–]BinchBoii 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Yes! I felt like I accidentally skipped something. No cuddling shots like they showed for the other two or discussion about how it went at all!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Same here! We reminded to make sure we didn’t skip over it 😂

[–]Rosesandpinot 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I so wish he had picked her and at AFR was still saying how they know each other so well and had such a future together and he still hadn’t paid enough attention to pronounce her name correctly

[–]skyblue_77 56 points57 points  (3 children)

Sooooo Zach tells Gabi that he’s going to tell kaity they hooked up, but ends up making It seem like he’s really there to tell her he’s falling in love with her and she’s so special and she needed to know that .. as he’s about to go on another date. I feel like he was sugarcoating the fact that their business is not their business anymore. Otherwise, If he means what he’s saying, why even go on the date with kaity? It’s bad enough he ruined the date by telling her what happened, but it’s even worse that he saw gabi and made all those claims just before seeing her. Idk who got treated worse

[–]huggsypenguinpal 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I cannot believe he said that he was falling for Gabi. He just wanted to make sure she didn't leave or make her feel less sad in the moment.

[–]pinkflowerz 45 points46 points  (1 child)

It makes it seem like Gabi is the other woman; he will lead her on but really what he’s doing is looking out for his main woman’s (Kaity’s) feelings

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Exactly the vibe I’m getting

[–]daisykat 59 points60 points  (5 children)

I wish Gabi would’ve advocated for her interests. It definitely could be a causality of editing, but not hearing her tell him, “No, I’m not okay with you telling people we had sex. This isn’t just about what’s right for you, it has to be about what’s right for me too,” would’ve been such an empowering moment for her. As a viewer, it’s frustrating to watch her say things to production that she isn’t willing to say to him. It’s just hard to see her freeze because I can feel her struggle (especially after being cheated on). It seems like she might have her redemption moment next week and say something to that effect 🤞

[–]kamel0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i might be totally off but maybe she thought it would be to her advantage for the other girls to know he had sex with her?

[–]juicebox567 41 points42 points  (2 children)

because I think she's learned that saying something like that would be an immediate limo ride home. I really think whether it's conscious or not they've learned they need to walk on eggshells with Zach about asserting those kinds of boundaries from the way he's been so quick to send other women home as soon as they basically express displeasure with him. I think the only reason that didn't backfire on Kaity was the Catholic guilt of it all

[–]daisykat 12 points13 points  (1 child)

But these women aren’t witnessing the conversations we are (re: Bailey, Jess). I think production and the process of rose ceremonies amplifies contestants fear of (public) rejection so people slowly become fixated on staying as long as possible rather than actually having any interest in pursuing a LTR with the lead (I mean, there’d be no show without that manipulation, obviously). I’m definitely not criticizing Gabi, I just wish she’d stood up for herself and her own best interests (especially after hearing her history of getting cheated on and looking the other way). Better to leave standing up for yourself than getting walked all over. Still hoping that’s what happens next week.

[–]juicebox567 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I totally agree I'd love to see her stand up for herself and leave!

[–]skyblue_77 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I feel like that’s why he tried to end It on the note she did. To further manipulate her feelings by sugarcoating that fact that he’s pretty much betraying her. Did the same thing to kaity right after. What did he honestly think she was going to say after he told her that? “I’ve always been honest with you” as if she’s supposed to be thankful to him. He’s dumb for that

[–]Rosesandpinot 28 points29 points  (8 children)

Did anyone else see Kaity in that outfit going on the date in a swamp and have the most concern on if they loaded the girl up with bug spray?

[–]abyssaltourguide💔 I'm so broken 💔 0 points1 point  (0 children)

She looked like she had a red mark or bug bite on her neck later!

[–]doodlebeania 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All I could think of were the mosquitoes eating her alive!

[–]jpeteypablo 36 points37 points  (3 children)

Omg not to mention the possible pythons and other snakes that may have been lurking in those trees… that date was straight out of a horror movie. First he brings her to an isolated, soaking wet, ominous-looking bench in the middle of a dark rainforest, then tells her he just slept with another woman. 💀

[–]squiggerina 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can't imagine their feet after sitting there having an uncomfortable ass conversation, then wading over somewhere else where they were still standing in water!

[–]hshmehzk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

All I was thinking was spiders being in my hair bc she was the front of the boat. I was like that was my nightmare and she’s so brave to do that.

[–]MimianhmeeExcuse you what? 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The poor girl...had to be in wet denim shorts too.

[–]Amznalltheway 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I was thinking ticks etc. and the water. I’d take the jumping out the plane ✈️ over that.

[–]sluttydramaExcuse you what? 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The yellow flower decorations were so sad

[–]honigmoon 84 points85 points  (7 children)

So, real talk- was anyone else BEGGING Gabi to turn down that second rose? Reasons why-

  1. She just talked to that fool about being “chosen” second. He should know by now.

  2. The betrayal of trust. Like, absolutely not.

I’m sure there are 500 more but I would have LOVED to see her decline it.

[–]Ashamed-Motor-5746 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Trying to remember if I have ever seen someone reject a rose in the franchise apart from BIP…I remember one girl getting rejected by her top pick like many years ago but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a woman turn down a rose.

[–]Pretend_Dog_2253 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s not women rejecting it, but there were a ton of guys that rejected roses in Gabby and Rachel’s season because they wanted a rose from the opposite girl.

[–]ginns32 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Only looking at Kaity after the roses were given out to the point where even Gabi commented on it to the camera. That would have been the final straw for me.

[–]doodlebeania 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I always wonder if they actually are ready to leave after that kind of disrespect but then their handler talks them out of it - basically threatening them with a bad edit.

[–]ginns32 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm sure that does happen. If production does not want you to go yet they will find a way to make you stay.

[–]pumpkin_pastiesBachelor Nation Elder 27 points28 points  (0 children)

They literally ate at the White Lotus 😂

[–]spider_collider 7 points8 points  (12 children)

Ugh tried to post as its own thread but it's not showing up.

I tell a ~friend~ before a night out that I'm not drinking because I'm on antibiotics. ~Friend~ is disappointed, but we go out. ~Friend~ says, "OP says she's not drinking tonight but, idk, maybe she will" and I end up drinking because ~friend~ took it as a challenge to get me to drink, I am responsible for drinking but ~friend~ is not respecting my boundaries. ~Friend~ sucked as a friend in that moment. ~Friend~ has the same energy as guys I slept with in college that enter wartime negotiations about wearing a condom. 🤷‍♀️

[–]carniwhores 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I came to this thread looking for a comment like this. I think it would have been an act of love to remind Zach that he found it important to not have sex this week if things got out of hand. We’ll never know what happened of course but it left a sour taste in my mouth.

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Okay no offense genuinely but not drinking Is totally on the onus of oneself no one can force it down throat yah sure it sucks having a friend who doesn’t respect your words still doesn’t mean it’s their fault that you drank

[–]AloneAssistant5326 19 points20 points  (8 children)

this is not remotely what happened with gabi 💀

[–]intheafterglow23if you rock with me you rock with me 52 points53 points  (9 children)

I genuinely don’t know what leads are supposed to do in this format to not hurt the contestants.

No one wants to get engaged without having sex, no one wants the lead to have sex with anyone else, no one wants to know the truth, no one wants to be lied to, fans criticize contestants who say no sex this week as puritanical but then criticize the leads for having sex. If a relationship is supposed to be based on mutual trust and honesty, how can you get engaged with someone who didn’t tell you they had sex with someone else a few days prior? It seems like Zach is genuinely torn about who his F1 is at this point. So he had decided to not have sex with anyone. Which people also criticized.

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Whatever happened to 2nd and 3rd base is all I’m sayin 🤷🏽‍♀️

[–]AloneAssistant5326 27 points28 points  (0 children)

can you imagine a nick viall/andi dorfman AFR situation except it’s “why did you fingerbang me when you weren’t in love with me?” 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[–]AloneAssistant5326 11 points12 points  (4 children)

idk i actually don’t think “no one” wants any of those things but some people want some of them because contestants are individuals with different preferences and values just like anyone else. it seems like TPTB try to prevent people from having frank conversations about these kinds of values and preferences in advance because it causes drama but usually the conflict isn’t what the bachelor or bachelorette specifically does or does not do but instead how those actions conflict with the values and expectations of the other contestant(s) when everyone is kind of operating in the dark.

tbh if he had decided not to have sex with anyone and actually done that i think the criticism would be pretty minimal (apart from the whole “why did it have to be a big thing on camera when he could have told the women during off camera time” thing)

[–]intheafterglow23if you rock with me you rock with me 5 points6 points  (3 children)

I was using rhetorical hyperbole. The point is that there will be conflicting views between the lead, various contestants, and fans no matter what choices the lead makes. There are no right answer, just a whole bunch of wrong ones.

[–]AloneAssistant5326 1 point2 points  (2 children)

eh i mean most of the people who did not talk much on camera about what they did or did not do in the fantasy suite have done okay criticism wise so i’m pretty sure that’s the right answer lol. eg no one was mad at matt james for how he handled FS

[–]intheafterglow23if you rock with me you rock with me 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It has been a major storyline on several of the most recent seasons and every time it has blown up when a contestant who is ostensibly/in retrospect the F1 brings it up on camera after the lead has not brought it up preemptively (Peter’s season, Hannah’s season, Clayton’s season). Every lead and contestant in each of those scenarios has received a ton of criticism. Again, what is the right answer? Talk about it outright or avoid it, whenever it comes up, it will cause a problem, because this is a highly fucked up scenario unless people are okay with polyamory or being cheated on, depending on how they define things.

[–]AloneAssistant5326 6 points7 points  (0 children)

i mean, to repeat, the answer is pretty simple: don’t talk about it, lol. see: matt james, becca kufrin, michelle young, etc.

like yes the show is wild but past seasons make it pretty clear that the most strategic approach actually is to just not talk about it. i would even say the most strategic approach is to both sleep with no one AND not talk about it because then even if contestants reveal later that you didn’t sleep together, you won’t be criticized for that.

[–]pumpkin_pastiesBachelor Nation Elder 20 points21 points  (1 child)

It’s almost like the format of 1 person dating 30 people doesn’t actually work 😂

[–]intheafterglow23if you rock with me you rock with me 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Right, like! Don’t hate the player, hate the game!

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (2 children)

did they ever address how Gabi got that forehead scratch?

[–]CarolineLovesCats 8 points9 points  (1 child)

She bumped into a golf cart.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I'm gonna need a black and white slo mo re enactment like they did for Pilot Pete lol

[–]Ambitious-Data-9021if you rock with me you rock with me 62 points63 points  (4 children)

I hate when people say they “deserve full transparency”. Transparency is NOT the highest value for everyone. Sometimes it’s better to keep your damn mouth shut

Edit: now finishing up the episode looks like Kaity even said “please I knew you’d sleep with people I just don’t need to know”

The vibe I’m gettin is that she assumed he would sleep with others so the fact that he’s spelling it out for her means something else is going on, something more nefarious perhaps, otherwise he’d not have said a word and they could both continue to pretend that they are the only two people left and w not each others time…. And this is what Zach kept missing. Once it did finally click, he kept apologizing instead of validating her which is what she needed. She needed him to hear and understand her, not an apology . Gah I hope wth some training he will get better at this.

Kaity handled it beautifully I’m super impressed (I’m a relationship coach, I can tell she’s def done soem personal growth work)

[–]herkisstheriot 8 points9 points  (0 children)

yeah it seems like throughout this season zach has been just unable to really empathize with these women and their pov in conflict and even not in conflict (ie the greer covid zoom convo), i think he has a pretty good foundation to be an emotionally mature, intelligent, and productive partner but he still has a lot to learn. kaity handled it beautifully and with such grace, patience, empathy, and forgiveness. i feel for gabi who’s been dragged through the mud just bc zach needed to ease his guilty conscience

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