Hello, and welcome back to week two of Talking Tuesday Tutoring session on Magazine and Anthology Publishing.
If you want to catch up with week one you will find it here. It's currently November, which means it's also NaNoWriMo, which also means I'm too cognitively exhausted and too busy to make this intro interesting. So on with the interview!
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ArchipelagoMind: When you think back on your submissions, does your best stuff usually find a home easier? Or is a lot of the publication game a matter of luck? Do you get surprises of "you accepted that, but not this?!?"
ecstaticandinsatiate: Well, sometimes other stories are better or happen to hit harder with the particular people who happened to read it at a particular moment.
I edit a magazine, and reading slush filled me with the humble realization that there are more excellent stories than there will ever be slots available.
meowcats734: there is a luck factor with publications, in that it's entirely possible that your story was only rejected because a magazine can only accept three stories and they don't want two about werewolves (or something similar).
jimiflan: I often say those that get published are selected based on skill, usually because it is a great story. Those that get rejected are mostly down to luck. It might be that you just submitted to the wrong place, or got the wrong editor, on the wrong day, and compared with everything else they got that day. But to say that someone gets published due to luck is not right. (this might just be a very strong rationalisation of rejection that i have formed to protect my ego…)
ecstaticandinsatiate: Literally that happened to me Meowcats. A select few of my final 15 or so stories for Issue #1 were all about a moon somehow. It became the deciding factor. There is no advice in that. Sometimes you just get picked or not picked based on who's around you in a submission pool.
meowcats734: I will say that if you get a surprise in the form of "you published x but not y," it's likely due to the fact that the editors have different taste than yours
different magazines look for different things, after all
ecstaticandinsatiate: There is similarity with reddit though: if five excellent stories are all on the same thread, they won't all be #1. They cannot be. Someone else succeeding doesn't make you WORSE. But keep writing and submitting and you will earn your time. They're absolutely identical in that way, speaking as someone who wrote a top prompt or two back in my day ;)
Which also is a valid and sincere hurt in its own way!! And worth mentioning. Be thoughtful about access to your story. If a pub is print only or behind an electronic pay wall, you lose readers. Make sure what you gain is worth it
Once and only once I made the mistake of publishing a token-pay (~$10 USD) story that's behind a paywall. I can't reprint it for a year. Learn from my mistakes lol
ArchipelagoMind: This raises an interesting question. Has anything ever directly come out of magazine publications. Obviously it's a resume line in your writing CV. But has anything directly come out of it. Like, new followers on social media/patreon whatever? Fan mail? Podcasts/others places reaching out?
meowcats734: I've gotten asked to write again for a literary magazine
the piece was subsequently accepted at pro rates
I've also gotten recommended to literary agents, although nothing came from that since they rejected the query I sent them in the end
jimiflan: Yes i got asked to write for a magazine after my first publication with them, i wrote something, submitted, and they rejected it
meowcats734: that happens too!
jimiflan: i really liked that story too,
ecstaticandinsatiate: That's fantastic, Meow! Congrats! I've had friends be contracted for short stories or novellas based on their submissions to a magazine or press. I've personally never gotten anything but oohs from other writers at the girl scout badges I've collected. And sometimes money ;)
jimiflan: Oooooooh
ecstaticandinsatiate: Reddit actually has landed me much more in terms of career success than magazines. There is no one traditional path to take!
meowcats734: one of these days I should compare patreon payouts to literary magazine payouts and make a little writeup
ecstaticandinsatiate: Oh that's smart! My only commissions have been thanks to reddit x)
meowcats734: hey, congrats! that's awesome!
ecstaticandinsatiate: Aw ty!! I'm still rooting for your query letter happy ending one day. II know it'll come
ArchipelagoMind: Do you think short story publications help in the long run? Say your aim is to be a pro one day, do you think the short story game is a sort of natural stepping stone on a path to that? Or is it a thing all by itself?
jimiflan: I think it is about building a portfolio of published stories that will gradually increase your reputation, get more readers, and open more doors. It might lead towards novels or larger publications. Or just might fill up that anthology of your stories that you have longed to publish.
it's also a great way to practice the skills. In a way writing a good short story is harder than writing a novel, so if you can get great at writing short stories, novels should be easy
meowcats734: honestly, the reason why i publish short stories is because it makes me happy that people are reading and having their lives improved by my stories. nothing professional has come out of it yet, and i don't expect it to—it's an end, not a means, for me.
that being said, I think jimiflan's right that you'll get reputation and open doors.
ecstaticandinsatiate: I think those are both excellent reasons, Jimi and Meow!
It's a thing by itself. You don't NEED short story publication credits to publish a novel. But it does help you meet writers, editors, and readers. There is a huge community for short story writers and poets on Twitter and beyond, including open-for-application crit groups like Codex, which is geared toward SFWA (pro-rate SFF writers guild) members. There are career opportunities within that depending on your long-term goals. Especially if you write genre fiction, there are loads of small presses eager to publish some bizarre new fascinating shit, and being witness to new subgenres being born is incredibly cool. Plus did you know anyone can win one of those fancy short story awards? Never dream small ;)
Traditional publishing is not the only way to make a living writing. Self-publishing and increasingly hybrid publishing (both trad and self publishing) are both viable and respected alternatives.
For me I also just love competition :3 It fuels me to write more than I otherwise would
jimiflan: yeah writing in competitions is really fun, the deadline makes the story
ArchipelagoMind: Okay. So we're slowly reaching towards the end. I've got a few broader questions I want to come to but I wanna tackle a couple of quickfire, one sentence ones first.
First up. Are some types of places (magazines/anthology books/digital only) easier to get accepted in than others, or does it seem to be about equal?
jimiflan: digital seems easier, but depends
meowcats734: i agree that digital seems easier
ArchipelagoMind: This is the quickfire section Jimi, no time for depends... 😄
jimiflan: it’s about volume, digital websites that can put out 3 stories a day, versus magazine with 3 stories a month
meowcats734: there are also just a lot of digital publications. maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, but I've found like five digital or hybrid publications for every print-only one.
ecstaticandinsatiate: You can get a good sense of a magazine's acceptance rate and recent activity by using a website like [Submission Grinder[(https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/) (free) or DuoTrope (paid). They both have loads of data (you'll love that arch) about recent responses and response times. That will tell you more than anything how hard a magazine is to submit to. Apex has a .92 acceptance rate. They're pretty tough. ;)
ArchipelagoMind: Data you say....? eyes widen
ecstaticandinsatiate: Be careful with themed anthologies. Specific themes can have smaller submission pools so less competition, but try to make sure you're writing to a theme that 1) could sell outside this anthology call or 2) matches well with what you want yo write generally
ArchipelagoMind: Do you need to read a lot from a place before you submit there, or do you reckon you can submit as long as you follow their guidelines?
jimiflan: i think you need to at least read some stories before submitting, don't go in blind
ecstaticandinsatiate: I would suggest taking the time to understand a magazine's voice. Read a story or two if they're free or check submission guidelines to see if they listed preferred writers. Otherwise you just look like an asshole if they asked for Emily Dickinson and you send Douglas Adams. But I'm almost never a regular reader of the magazines I submit to. :)
meowcats734: i am also almost never a regular reader of the magazines I submit to; there's just too many of them for that to be reasonable
ecstaticandinsatiate: Agreed Meow!
I do pick up Analog, Asimov's, and Fantasy and Science Fiction from my local Barnes and Noble. These are some of the top tier mags in the industry and are a good reference if you're trying to get a sense of what's being published at a pro rate right now
ArchipelagoMind: We have a relatively good geographic base here. Do you find geography matters for most submissions? Are most like "US only" etc? Or does where youre from normally not matter?
jimiflan: No, I don't think it matters. Sometimes there are publications/competitions that are only requesting stories from a location, gender, ethnicity etc. Obviously, you have to respect that. But for the most part it doesn't matter.
meowcats734: seconding jimiflan
for some reason there are a weirdly large number of magazines that ask for submissions from British writers only
but it's still an infinitesimal fraction of all literary magazines
ArchipelagoMind: As there should be... hums Land of Hope and Glory
ecstaticandinsatiate: There are magazines that are dedicated to non-US writers! Some are specific to particular regions and others are specific to international experiences like Khoreo, which is for immigrant or diaspora writers. Admittedly I'm blanking on names, but if you write ESL or are living in or from a non-US country, you can use [Submission Grinder’s[(https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/) search page to add a keyword like, say, Canada. Which I mention because Canada in particular gives grants to lit mags, so you'll see places like Augur prioritize Canadian and First Nations submitters
ArchipelagoMind: Do you find the submission game gets easier? Either that you get more acceptances, or you just sort of gain a rhythm in at least getting them out easier and with less stress?
meowcats734: i think the submission game gets easier both mentally and acceptance-wise
there's a general sort of intuition about what kind of literary magazines might like your stories more that you pick up as some get accepted
jimiflan: i think it does get easier, the process is pretty much the same with minor variations
and once you get over the blockade of "my stuff isn't good enough" then you will hunt through your computer for all those stories you have and send them all out…
ecstaticandinsatiate: It gets easier. Then it gets harder. Then it gets easier again. Let it move with your life and don't beat yourself up if you're going through a difficult life change or external stress and submitting (to magazines or reddit!) is suddenly harder. :) I would say the graph slants toward it gets easier. But it's okay to still have dips and bumps along the way up
jimiflan: yes, motivation definitely goes up and down.... I'm getting motivated to submit a few stories right now…
ecstaticandinsatiate: I agree Jimi, but also I'm such a perfectionist there are some I still cringe when I see I submitted it!! Somehow manage to be vaguely salty at the rejection nevertheless 😂 I'm joking mostly, but I do agree that I'll go through phases where my "unsubmittable" trunk stories were yeeted into the ether. Usually I was right about why I didn't submit them before lol. But a few times I've been surprised, so if you feel the urge to submit, even if you're nervous, go for it!!
meowcats734: I actually haven't submitted stories in a fair while, since I've been trying and failing to get a novel out there for the past couple months…
jimiflan: been there, I'm up to about 45 query letters
ecstaticandinsatiate: need a meme of me happily playing in my sandbox drafting my novel with a storm of future query letter rejections looming over 😂
meowcats734: i am at exactly 145 query letters, which is right about when I typically give up
ecstaticandinsatiate: I salute you both, that's so hard and scaryyyy @_@
jimiflan: i couldnt find that many editors!
ecstaticandinsatiate: Submit, Jimi! Right now! I believe in you! Abandon this talk for the art
ArchipelagoMind: We've seen a couple of websites mentions in chat so far already. But to officially ask the question, are there any particular resources you recommend to help people on their journey? Websites, books etc.?
meowcats734: the magazine, “Authors Publish�, [Submission Grinder[(https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/)……)
jimiflan: I find reedsy has some useful tips
meowcats734: weirdly enough a lot of literary magazines have twitter accounts
I dislike twitter for many reasons, but it can be a resource for finding magazines
ecstaticandinsatiate: I agree with both Meow and Jimi! I regret to emphasize Twitter. I disable notifications on my phone, but the evil bird app is a gold mine for literary news. Just search (with quotes) "call for submissions" or "open call" or "anthology" etc. The results are usually super helpful and you'll find lots of random helpful writers who build monthly submission threads
There's a section of the Poets and Writers website that has contests listed. I'd also suggest getting a Submittable account, because you'll need it for some magazine submissions and you can search current submission calls open on their platform.
jimiflan: there are lots of websites that have "20/30/50 places to submit short stories to"
as for writing tips, I've heard lots of people rave about Masterclasses with Neil Gaiman or others
**ecstaticandinsatiate:**If you write second world fantasy, I highly recommend submitting to Beneath Ceaseless Skies!. They're dedicated to giving feedback to submitters, especially new submitters. They are by far one of the gentlest and most helpful early submission experiences you can have.
meowcats734: actually, if you want a specific list, my spreadsheet has all the places I've submitted to in the past year
Deep Magic PodCastle On the Premises Rattle Daily Science Fiction Metastellar Young Authors Competition West Branch Coastal Shelf Flash Fiction Online Ninth Letter Compressed Arts Uncanny Magazine Small Leaf Press Foglifter Narrative Magazine Stonecutters Clarkesworld Magazine Apex Magazine Room Magazine Fractured Lit Reckoning Author of Tomorrow Writers' Alliance of Gainesville Gotham Writers Orion's Belt If There's Anyone Left Asimov's Diabolical Plots No Contact Augur Magazine The Deadlands Cosmic Horror Monthly Zooscape CRAFT Three-Lobed Burning Eye Adroit Journal The Masters Review Singapore Unbound Beechmore Books Atlanta Shootings Fireside Fiction Fourteen Poems Beneath Ceaseless Skies Writers' College Blog Grain Magazine Prospectus Dark Matter Magazine Dream Pop Press Uncharted Magazine Welter University Cricket magazine Kenyon Review Nashville Review The Sky We Stand On Cincinnati Review Escape Pod Storytwigs Pseudopod 34Orchard Short Édition Air/Light Factor Four Magazine Lumiere Review Smoke and Mold CatsCast Fundacion Cesar Egido Serrano The Arcanist Furious Fiction Pen Short Story Prize Threepenny Review The Spectacle Suspect Solarpunk Magazine BreakBread Magazine Lightspeed Magazine Shenandoah Analog Science Fiction Limp Wrist Magazine Protean Magazine Snarl Brilliant Flash Fiction The Paris Review Chestnut Review Substack (deep magic is defunct now, unfortunately)
ecstaticandinsatiate: That's an impressive list!!
I also highly recommend this link if you're like me and mostly write micro fiction (up to 500) or flash fiction (up to 1000). Great source for micros in particular
https://dlshirey.com/the-short-list/
jimiflan: very long list!
sadly Daily Science Fiction is closing down
meowcats734: darn, I didn't know that
ArchipelagoMind: Okay. So to wrap up where I often wrap up these chats. What’s the one big takeaway. To the budding writer contemplating sending in their first short story submission, what's your parting advice or key message?
meowcats734: it's quick, it's easy, and it's free
just like pouring river water in your socks, you should go for it
ArchipelagoMind: "just like"...?
meowcats734: it's a reference to an old meme
ecstaticandinsatiate: SEND IT. Rip the bandaid off. Worst case scenario they say no. If you want them to say no really, really fast, sort submission grinder by average response time. No one sees or cares how many rejections it takes to get that first yes
jimiflan: big takeaway - celebrate the rejections, submit, submit, submit. Everyone is a good enough writer to submit, only time will tell how long it will take to get accepted.
ArchipelagoMind: Thank you all three of you. Seriously, so much. This has been one of the best ones of these we have done, and I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to do this chat.
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Once more, a massive thank you to /u/meowwcats734, /u/jimiflan and /u/ecstaticandinsatiate for their great advice over the past two weeks.
What topics would you like to see for our next Talking Tuesday Tutoring topic? Let us know in the comments below?
If you've tried short story or poetry submissions, how did you get on? Share your experiences in the comments.
Meanwhile, we'll be back next week with the Thinking post.
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A Good Ol' Postcript
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