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Quick mafsDiscussion (i.redd.it)

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[–]BigSaladCity 333 points334 points  (7 children)

The real buff was to super skrull

[–]Cheshire_Tao 53 points54 points  (0 children)

Galaxy brain.

[–]Gobears510 9 points10 points  (2 children)

ELI5 please

[–]DoTheVelcroFly 39 points40 points  (1 child)

Well, he's just taking a piss.
Super Skrull has all ongoing effects of your enemies' cards. If your opponent plays Red Skull, and you play Super Skrull, your SS is going to have less negative effect now than it used to be.
So, technically it's a buff but in practice nobody in their right mind would play Super Skrull when Red Skull is on board anyway.

[–]Gobears510 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Right on

[–]Kabal82 -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

This.

Been seeing him a little since the patch, and have been getting steamrolled.

Probably the new meta and the next card to be targeted.

[–]infractiousjokester 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Super skrull is so underused. And you still want to Nerf him? Lol

[–]loggerheadmurphy 62 points63 points  (3 children)

I made a quick table for old vs new Red Skull (RS) net power vs #s of enemy cards by himself, hit once by Shuri, or hit twice by Shuri (e.g. on Wong)

[–]swarf 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I think what you need is that + taskmaster, which is the play being nerfed here. Then you'll see a more accurate difference.

[–]SomeNotTakenName 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah shuri+redskull is strong but doesn't win games on its own. you need to touch another lane somehow, taskmaster or Zola most likely.

[–]loggerheadmurphy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Taskmaster would just be the Red Skull power without the bonus for the opponent cards. But it’s dependent on what Red Skull’s power is so it didn’t seem useful to calculate.

[–]anthonyownsit 640 points641 points  (94 children)

I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this. It’s actually a buff

[–]FedoraFerret 320 points321 points  (43 children)

It technically nerfs the followup Taskmaster. Very slightly.

[–]FeedComprehensive949 130 points131 points  (28 children)

They didn’t nerf Red Skull they nerfed a Red Skull play.

[–]chrisrayn 40 points41 points  (26 children)

Me, playing Galactus: “I don’t know, guys…the changes aren’t all that bad, honestly…” *sweating, looking around nervously, hoping people quietly let this get swept under the rug…*

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (25 children)

60% of my games yesterday post patch were against Galactus

[–]The_Devil_that_Heals 9 points10 points  (21 children)

That might be because people were saving their caches, and then used their tokens to unlock him. That’s what I did.

[–]MechaDuckzilla 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Did the same I'm pretty close to getting him. Should be in the G club by the end of the week.

[–]The_Devil_that_Heals 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It’s kind of boring to be honest.. and I don’t want to craft Knull so I’ll probably climb with something else. He was just the last big bad I needed.

[–]RatzMand0 6 points7 points  (2 children)

people are playing galactus now because the new change to taskmaster makes him trash against galactus

[–]The_Devil_that_Heals 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I’m saying most people with the option got thanos before galactus. And because of the event people were saving their caches and as a byproduct their tokens. And with those tokens between Kang and galactus I think most would pick Galactus. My point is jumping to conclusions is not smart.

[–]chrisrayn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Another note from a Galactus player: At Infinite, pre-patch, if I played 10 games, on average 5 to 7 would be played against a Thanos deck. However, last night, playing post-patch, I believe I played 40 or so games and only 5 were against Thanos decks. It’s insane how much people just aren’t playing Thanos decks anymore, at least here at the beginning.

[–]icepickjones 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah it's been great, the easiest of cubes when I face a galactus deck.

[–]Fearless-Speech-8258 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah he was the card I was saving for. Thanos just didn’t interest me as much as Galactus. A day after I picked up Gal I also got Knull so that was really nice.

[–]wagedomain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tend to keep Debris around just in case these days

[–]porkins86 4 points5 points  (0 children)

but i think that is the right move. Red Skull isn't a busted card.

Shiri is the busted card so if they had have nerfed Red Skull you're targeting the wrong thing. The combo Shiri > Red Skull > Task was what was busted.

I still don't think this is a great nerf.. but not for the reason this post has it. The deck isn't any less S tier.

[–]isaacooper 22 points23 points  (10 children)

This is my issue with the 'nerf' - if you couldn't contest the Red Skull lane, how the eff are you contesting the 26 power Taskmaster anyway?

IMO it's only meaningfully nerfing Zero -> Red Skull.

[–]FewyLouie 0 points1 point  (4 children)

And Sauron decks. Are Sauron decks not a thing? It’s one of my most successful decks… but, I’m in the low ranks.

[–]rAiChU- 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Sauron decks are pretty much Shuri decks minus Cosmo. Shuri Sauron is strong but Shuri Cosmo is generally considered to be better.

[–]Jix_Omiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He just got to series 4, so i guess not much people have him yet. Im just about to get Shuri, Sauron's definetly next on my list. I've been playing a zero+red skull deck since season 2, i feel this deck is my birthright D=

[–]BirdsInTheNest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A content creator convinced a lot of people that shuri Sauron is the weaker version, which I’m fine with since it means I can beat the “safer” shuri mirror.

[–]isaacooper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, I meant more in terms of the main Shuri deck running around at the moment.

It certainly impacts Sauron into Red Skull interaction, as well as Dracula-Red Skull. I'm sure there are others I've missed.

To be honest I like the Red Skull change to make him more playable stand-alone - I'm just surprised they did it in a way that essentially didn't nerf the Shuri interaction.

[–]AsteroidLMNOP -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

If they play Red Skull in an Armor or Cosmo lane, you can still Shang-Chi or Cosmo the follow up Taskmaster. Possibly Aero, but it's easily counterable now

[–]thewhaleshark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

T5 Aero to pull RS somewhere not Armor or Cosmo, T6 Shang-Chi.

What are they gonna do, cover RS with Wasp? That kills Taskmaster anyway, mission accomplished.

[–]isaacooper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'd argue Shang-Chi on the Taskmaster is often difficult due to priority as they often have very little power in the other 2 lanes (possibly just a 2-power Shuri).

Of course there are some counters - I just don't think the deck should be so strong and prevalent that your only choices are 1) run Shuri yourself (if you have her), 2) play a deck specifically built to counter it, or 3) just lose whenever you face it (often 2 cubes because they can just snap when Shuri enters the hand, before you even know what they're playing). Hopefully it doesn't end up so prevalent - but that would kind of surprise me given nerfs to Thanos decks and Aero.

I just wish they'd made changes that made the Shuri -> Red Skull play counterable by playing 4 reasonable sized minions into the Red Skull. Now it's still just insta-lose if you don't have Shang Chi. The change actually even makes it so Iron Man is a worse counter (not that it was a particularly good one in the first place).

[–]Yoshi2255 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does nerf redskull with ability removed but actually buffs him without any changes (so without shuri buff and with his own debuff) because now with 4 cards on opponents side he has 9 effective power instead of 7

[–]MelancholyOW 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“16 power is too much for a consistent turn 6 play.”

Destroyer 6/16>6/15

“Hey, 30 power on this fairly consistent turn 6 play might be a little too much.”

Taskmaster 5/30 to 5/26

Yeah! 26 power is perfect!

[–]KageNoReaper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So instead of 30 power taskmaster gets 26 power which in the end results in 52 total power in last 2 rounds, which is higher than any play you can do without any help from any lands. Even when you use hood-moongirl-magik to play infinaut-two she hulks-two demons total power you can land in last round equals to 50 and only if youre lucky to play it perfectly, getting 52 power on the board just by playing 3 cards back to back is messed up

[–]FedoraFerret 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, yes. You get 52 power in 2 rounds, where before you got 60. Which means it is, technically, a nerf.

[–]Accomplished_Way6763 125 points126 points  (32 children)

I think it’s a buff for playing red skull straight up but it’s a very very tiny nerf to shuri red skull

[–]NinetyFish 47 points48 points  (21 children)

Yeah, to explain for anyone confused, it's slightly slightly slightly slightly weaker on a lane where your opponent has three, as instead of 30-6=24, it's now 26-3=23.

The bigger nerf to the deck is now Taskmaster is 26 instead of 30 and the whole Taskmaster can't copy destroyed cards thing

I mean, I guess that achieves the goal of weakening it without destroying the deck entirely, but it's still very much a top tier deck. From a traditional competitive standpoint, that's a good nerf. Very used to other card games where a top deck suddenly becomes Tier 3 after a balance patch, that's a bit heavy-handed, especially in a game where collections are permanent so anyone investing in the deck is screwed if it's nerfed out of contention

This sub will complain about the Shuri deck being toxic, but that's just because this is a toxic sub that demonstrates all the typical complaints of card game communities, especially younger/more inexperienced card game communities (like the difference in tone between what used to be newer comers to MTG in the Arena subreddit compared to the more veteran players in the tabletop MTG subreddits like /r/spikes; the Arena sub--I haven't checked in a long time--used to be flooded with players ranting about basic game mechanics like counterspells and basic competitive game staples like netdecking, just like this sub complains about basic interaction tech cards and stock meta builds)

[–]Kouloupi 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Were spikes defending metas like the ones with mono G chariot and U/R goldspan being 7 out of 8 tour decks? And note that i am not even picking the worst recent standard metas to make a point.

[–]NinetyFish 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Probably not, but that's not what I'm trying to say

More experienced players know that good and bad metas come and go but that there's always going to be top tier decks as is the nature of a competitive game with an online fanbase that can hivemind up top builds quickly

I can probably guarantee you that there weren't highly upvoted comments and posts during those metas where people called the Goldspan deck toxic and personally insulted anyone playing those decks, for example, it was just an understanding that certain decks were too prevalent in the meta and that was a mistake from Game Design

My point isn't about meta health, it's about, like, player community health. This is still a sub where people launch personal attacks at people who play cards like Leech or play stock meta builds and actively cheer when people do toxic things like emote spam when they beat a meta build or purposefully rope them (i.e. use as much of the turn clock as possible) just to mess with them in revenge for a meta build

Which reminds me much more of early card game subs (like Arena, for example, which started off with tons of memes about, say, how blue players were actively bad people who were being toxic for using a central game mechanic) than for veteran subs where people are more like "yeah, I was 4-0 for the night and in the finals and then I got my shit wrecked by a couple of well timed interaction spells, aw well, try again next week and I'll adjust my deck to be better prepared for that interaction"

[–]DicksAhoy 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Truth is the deck was barely grazed though. If anything it also saw some buffs given cards like Aero were nerfed, which was a key card for winning the Shuri matchup. Less decks will run Aero, which means more Shuri lists will get away with murder, and even then they can just play Taskmaster Zero for example to have her pull the Zero instead of the 26 power Taskmaster.

People are complaining because deck variety is slowly thinning over time, and SD isn't doing anything to fix that. Just look again at the Aero nerf. It was brought down because "it's the most used 5 drop." Yeah? So buff the other 5 drops. Give Blue Marvel more power, have Ronan get +3 per card instead of +2, do ANYTHING to Nimrod. Instead we're left with no new decks to overtake the throne, and all the old T1 decks walking with a slight limp, except for Shuri who broke a nail and still won with a 30+ power deficit in her favor.

[–]gsutter94 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think the problem is aero was the only real accessible counter to a lot of the insane 4 and 5 pool cards people don’t have. Kind of like leader was. But they’ve trimmed low cl power without curbing the top end

[–]Siege_J 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man, I don't even get mad when my opponent makes me lose 8 cubes with an Aero. Aero doesn't feel bad at all to lose.

Unlike Shuri-RedSkull.

Aero nerf would've been okay if they let her move the last 2 cards instead of just 1 (from the previous max 4 cards). But hey, let's just forget they didn't touch Leech that can possibly f*ck 7 of your cards.

How about we give Leech the Aero treatment? Only Leech 1 card in opponent's hand! lol... But realistically, maybe Leech only 2 random cards would be more fair.

[–]oldreddit_isbetter -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The redskull "nerf" is the perfect example of what nerfs should be: tiny incremental changes.

[–]DavidsonJenkins 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Is it? Playing Red Skull straight up, you plan would be to throw it into a lane that your opponent does not care about, so on turn 6 they have to make the choice of either playing into the skull lane or give up the lane and continue whatever their stratergy was. In that case the extra power would make Skull more threatening

[–]Accomplished_Way6763 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It’s definitely a buff to playing red skull straight up, he’s effectively a 5/9 if they fully fill it up which is still a decent stat-line, let’s say on average the opponent plays 3 cards on that lane. That makes the new red skull have more power on average than the old red skull.

[–]HappyTurtleOwl 2 points3 points  (5 children)

And yet the aero nerf is a huge buff to Shuri. Shuri didn’t get a nerf this patch at all. 26 power in two lanes, plus up to possibly 13 in another is still hard to surmount. Shang isn’t an effective enough counter, as he can played around easily, and aero now can’t stop both of the main Shuri play lines.

I’d dare say she basically got a buff.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

And yet the aero nerf is a huge buff to Shuri.

I mean, to be fair: it's a buff to one shuri play line (shulk/task turn 6) but even then it just turns it into a 50/50, and they nerfed the top end of that play down to 18 power too.

This patch definitely nerfed the straight up Red Skull line, which aero still affects, because now when you aero on turn 5 to pull the first big drop, if you have prio, you get to erase it and the task's power from the game, instead of just one. Before if you pulled that line, you'd need valk on 5 to stop the task since destroying the RS didn't work.

[–]HappyTurtleOwl 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Shuri is more likely to have prio, though, and it’s still a far hope.

Again, it’s all fine in theory but imo the biggest sin with the deck is how telegraphed it is, and yet how non-interactive it is. You will never know which of the two lines they are playing. You need to draw a specific card AND hope they don’t draw one of their 2 protection cards to have any good chance to win. Even if you have the answers, you still might not win, and now they further reduced the ways to win against the deck. And that’s for decks that even carry the answers to begin. All other decks are basically sol.

It’s just so one note and boring. They are also protected from losses because they should know almost 100% of the time wether they will lose or win because of how straightforward and unchanging the play pattern is.

And I wouldn’t even include Valk in this discussion. There just aren’t enough people with the card.

I would honestly rather face Zabu and surfer again, and I despised those decks, but at least we’d actually playing a game and not just 6 turn solitaire.

What pains me the most is that Thanos, the more varied, flexible deck, gets absolutely neutered for the sins of other cards, and yet Shuri, the most boring shit in the game, gets a light tap on the wrist.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Shuri is more likely to have prio, though, and it’s still a far hope.

Why do people say this? Yes, she'll be winning ONE lane, but that deck doesn't do all that much before turn 5, best case scenario for it is some zero junk, Shuri's way behind tempo, armor and cosmo don't do much.

You will never know which of the two lines they are playing.

Daredevil can guarantee you know which line they're playing.

And I wouldn’t even include Valk in this discussion. There just aren’t enough people with the card.

she costs just as much as Shuri, if you're talking options to counter a deck built around a P4 card, why can't you suggest a P4 card? I bought valk specifically to help with Shuri/thanos.

I would honestly rather face Zabu and surfer again, and I despised those decks, but at least we’d actually playing a game and not just 6 turn solitaire.

I completely agree, the deck's one of the most boring things I've ever seen in this game, what we need are some counter lines that don't revolve around recruiting a fuck ton of other cards combined to pull this play pattern apart. With leader and aero nerfed, this combo just outdistances everything.

I guess I'll have to keep leeching this thing until they give us some tools that don't suck.

[–]HappyTurtleOwl 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Zero lizard titania ebony sunspot can all get Shuri up in the other lane they need for prio. 10-15 power consistently. Some decks can beat it, a lot don’t get there unless they predict that it’s a Shuri deck by turn 3 and dump high cards specifically into that lane expecting specifically that they will need prio 5. Not always possible, and makes play inconvenient.

Daredevil… right. 🙄

Yea, ultimately her problem is how consistent, insurmountable, and unbeatable she is despite being completely telegraphed. There’s just nothing to it. You drop cards and your opponent sits there helplessly, either losing 1 cube or foolishly stay around. Like I said, effectively might as well be watching someone play solitaire.

[–]Ongr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is exactly how the devs worded it in the patch notes

[–]digital0verdose 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed, but being real wont win you the karma.

[–]Ongr 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Im surprised people have seemed to miss

Developer Comments: This change is singularly aimed at reducing the strength of combining Red Skull with Shuri and Taskmaster. Outside of those interactions, this change is mostly a buff to the base case usage for Red Skull, giving you 9 or 10 Power at crowded locations rather than 7 or 9.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Reading is hard, man.

[–]OkBuddyErennary 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Still dooesn't really change much when paired with Shuri and/or Taskmaster and that's the problem

[–]MattLocke 39 points40 points  (2 children)

It’s like their logic was if they make Red Skull technically better on his own, people will pair him with Shuri less.

But that just means people will shove Shuri in decks that already run Red Skull more.

My friend runs mostly Drac Zero. He dropped KaZar for Shuri when he unlocked her. He kept talking about how clever he feels for tricking people into thinking he was playing zoo when suddenly Shuri.

And I’m just having to bite my tongue how he just made a Shuri deck with a Dracula in it, since he’s literally the only person I know offline that plays this game.

[–]rumckle 14 points15 points  (0 children)

.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But that just means people will shove Shuri in decks that already run Red Skull more.

This implies there are people out there playing Red Skull in decks while having shuri, and leaving shuri out of the deck.

Is that 'really' something you think is going on?

[–]KibaTeo 6 points7 points  (6 children)

It nerfs shuri taskmaster combo by 8 power, and if you shang chi the red skull taskmaster can't even get the attack anymore

[–]JebstoneBoppman 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Cosmo and Armor still exist, and two 26 power drops in a row is still incredibly hard to keep up to.

Regardless, Shuri is still a 1 cube deck. Either you're winning a cube or you're losing a cube, it's never gonna be more than that unless you really like to just watch games play out.

[–]KibaTeo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd argue it's a lower wall to beat now which is very relevant, the number of games where 8 point gap is relevant is huge

[–]parmreggiano -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

1 cube? You retreat on turn 3 if you get snapped?

[–]ROTOFire 2 points3 points  (2 children)

If I know shuri is coming and don't have an answer, yes.

[–]trinxified 0 points1 point  (1 child)

You'd do that only if they played Zero early.

A lot of decks run sunspot, Armor and lizard. Those were the only 3 cards you'd see apart from Zero. Shuri decks that get the right draw will snap at turn 3 before shuri is played.

[–]Arisoro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You not supposed to say the quiet out loud

[–]Blastmaster29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The patch notes literally said it’s a buff to red skull…

[–]piconese 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not a buff, it’s a very slight nerf. As I said elsewhere, if you were to fist skull over to an empty sanctum turn 6, you’d only be winning by 13 instead of 15. This is a nerf. A situational nerf, but still a nerf.

[–]KageNoReaper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is rather troubling to see that there is a group of people out there that gets paid to do basic math and use common sense to balance out the game, but fail at these very fundamental tasks for a humans life, and get paid anyway lol

[–]Goroman86 161 points162 points  (15 children)

The nerf is to Sauron and Zero

[–]TyoPlaysGames 62 points63 points  (0 children)

Which is dumb because they aren’t even the big offenders here

[–]SorryCashOnly 30 points31 points  (12 children)

Rip Sauron :/

The Taskmaster change basically means Shuri redskull decks MUST run armor and cosmo

[–]Goroman86 36 points37 points  (5 children)

They already do, but it means they have to play both on t2-3 to really protect from Shang-Chi/Aero. A half-measure for sure, but I honestly think it will have the desired effect on Shuri decks

[–]SorryCashOnly 10 points11 points  (3 children)

They do but at least Sauron still had a reason to be use before the balance patch

Now there is basically zero reason to run Sauron over armor/cosmo

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Now there is basically zero reason to run Sauron over armor/cosmo

There never actually was, it was pretty widely agreed on that the deck is generally just worse with sauron.

[–]browncharliebrown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was worse cause every deck runs Shang-chi. It’s better if Shang was uncommon like in the ss meta

[–]Goroman86 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, I know! I opened Sauron and have tried to make him work... only for Shuri to take it all away

[–]-Papercuts- -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Shuri decks can still task + zero/titania on 6, aero WAS good against the task play before but now the armor lane is much easier to win without risk against her. She’s also a crapshoot against shuri skip shehulk task now, even if that is “only” 36 power instead of 40 now.

I doubt she sees play for long outside of deathwave, they butchered her. Shang is still pretty unlikely to hit anything and if he does you were winning anyway.

[–]SyntheticMoJo -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

What was changed on taskmaster? I don' t underatand the need for Cosmo/Armor.

[–]Traditional_Job_6932 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Taskmaster only works if the card he’s copying is still in play. So if Redskull gets killed by shang-chi before taskmaster copies, then taskmaster will just be 0 power

[–]SyntheticMoJo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Never seen that interaction!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I don' t underatand the need for Cosmo/Armor.

Never seen Shang Chi?

[–]SyntheticMoJo -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Why wasn't that s problem before though?

[–]bmabizari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because taskmaster copied the last card played even if it was already destroyed. Taskmaster no longer does that.

[–]Gottendrop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who was that first guy?

[–]GeneRecent 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Contesting 26 power is easy peasy. 30 is where I draw the line! /s

[–]sybrwookie 122 points123 points  (7 children)

Don't forget the part where you can safely play t6 without risk of Aero now, so a double buff!

(but seriously, it's a VERY slight nerf, we'll see how things go, I'm more disappointed that other things weren't also buffed up some to make for a more interesting meta)

[–]PoliteRuthless 26 points27 points  (4 children)

Shuri decks also played aero tho, so it does nerf that deck too.

But that doesn't mean much, since basically every deck played aero

[–]GrayBoyLoop 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Shuri needs the Aero less than the opposing deck does. It is probably the most proactive deck in the game. It just likes that three of its protection cards also double as hate pieces/win cons.

[–]Razmorg 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Personally I think the biggest nerf to Shuri might be that it becomes the deck to beat instead of Thanos so people might be able to afford some stuff tailored to mess with it. I guess we'll see. Like imagine if they play Cosmo, you play Cosmo and then you Goose the last lane. No more Taskmaster.

Whatever happens it's still probably going to be a top deck just because of the easy to reach power output and I'm slightly worried considering it's such a boring deck and it has a tendency to choke out other decks that don't a have a specific way to prevent Shuri's game plan but hey I guess we'll see.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

you play Cosmo and then you Goose the last lane. No more Taskmaster.

I would always look to goose the cosmo/armor lane in that scenario, their choice then became whether to play RS out in the open, or skip for shulk, then on 6 I'd either Valk RS, or aero depending on their line... which doesn't work now because of the aero nerf.

The RS counter works better now, as you can use shang to erase the power too, but the aero nerf makes countering the shulk skip a lot harder.

[–]Livbeetus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sucks because then they Shuri, skip, She Hulk in the Goose lane and then Task that. Granted it's only 18 but they're still putting 36 power out on the last turn, with 18 of it in a Goose lane that you can't do anything about. If they're playing the Zero/Titania/Maw stuff you still lose anyways because you have to commit power there too.

[–]Intrepid_Tumbleweed 2 points3 points  (1 child)

The thing I’m confused on is why task master isn’t 6 cost? Why should you be able to copy a giant stat and play an extra card? If it was 6 cost it would still be aero-able

[–]gamesjunkie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because that would make sense.

[–]L0ST_N0UN 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Playing today felt the exact same as playing the last several days, Shuri & Redskull everywhere.

[–]noodlenoggin34 23 points24 points  (0 children)

This is very technically a nerf when using less than 4 cards to beat a Shuri’d Red Skull, but like… are you really going to try to face it head on without Shang Chi?

0 cards: 26|30 1 card: 25|28 2 cards: 24|26 3 cards: 23|24 4 cards: 22|22

The bigger difference is the 4 power off of the Taskmaster follow-up, but it’s still not a particularly big difference. Basically the deck is losing ~4-6 power on the Shuri->Red Skull->Taskmaster + 1-drop line. It also lost 4 power on the Shuri->pass T5->She-Hulk + Taskmaster line. All in all, they shaved like 5 power off the top of the deck’s standard lines of play. In a deck that was dropping around 60-75 power by the end of a lot of games, it’s not much.

[–]andy449055 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Its so funny been stuck in the 95 zone and the nerfs got me to Infinite this morning using Shuri deck.

Without Aero, Shuri could easily dominate T6 without priority. The nerf on Taskmaster is minor because all of the Shuri player including me play RS protected by Cosmo or Armor.

Moreover, Thanos used to be stronger than Shuri and now its gone so basically Shuri has become the new T0 without any major competitor.

Shang Chi ? Its not even a problem because most of the time i deliberately give up two lanes and focus on the one i have cosmo on. So in turn 6, even when they guess the right location i play taskmaster, its still useless cause priorities are not on my side.

I personally use Shuri to climb and i have to say this meta is super unhealthy because the only thing effectively countering Shuri is, ironically, another Shuri with better draw.

[–]Embruns 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Climbed from 60 to infinite spamming Shuri. Took me a night. Very little counter deck. Unless you don’t have her in your hand by turn 4

[–]Avalloc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Which Shuri deck are you using?

[–]andy449055 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a regular Shuri deck with Dr Doom instead of Aero. I also use ebony maw instead of titania.

[–]thewhaleshark 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wouldn't T5 Aero/T6 Shang-Chi effectively ruin you, though? I'm trying to figure out how everyone thinks Aero is dead now and I just can't.

[–]andy449055 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If I play RS after Shuri on turn 5 that play indeed ruin me.

However, Shuri used to suffered from having to win two lanes on turn 5 to enter turn 6 with priority to counter Aero because of its predictability and now that pressure is gone. T5 aero is way weaker than T6 Aero because i still have one turn to react.

[–]thewhaleshark 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True, but you have to have the ability to pivot in your hand, which will probably dampen your success rate. And if I do the T5 Aero play on a deck that struggles with priority - or doesn't bother to grab it - that means Shang-Chi is more likely to fire before Taskmaster.

Shuri is still gonna be a strong deck for sure, but I think there are maybe a couple of new gaps.

[–]mrbisonopolis 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yeah putting 4 on your opponents side instead of 8 is very nice.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (2 children)

They REALLY want to sell some more Shuri before she’s dropping next month

[–]Yousoggyyojimbo 17 points18 points  (1 child)

With the timing and reluctance they have for patching things that are harder to get access to, I'm pretty sure this is it.

They have to keep the whales happy. Even if that means making everybody else miserable by refusing to do proper and timely balancing. They would rather mess with a ton of series 3 cards than a series 4 or 5 card if they can help it.

[–]BurrSir01 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Lost all faith for the team today. This patch was just terrible.

[–]casper_423 2 points3 points  (1 child)

If you think about it thematically, Red Skull gives your opponent Captain America’s buff. Now it makes sense!

[–]tiger_ace 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ah, yes, balancing around lore, the best way to balance

[–]trinxified 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Shuri is dropping to Series 3 next month. That means the nerf will happen at that time, after people have spent tokens on her.

[–]Perpapadou 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Im so Disappointed they didn’t nerf shuri instead. This nerf was stupid as fuck. They took 2 power from the card and removed 4 power from his debuff, it’s a solid buff overall. Plus, two 26 lanes it’s still too much. I’m so incredibly dumbfounded by this. So much hype so much stakes on these buffs and nerfs and it’s garbage…

[–]FriendlySceptic 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The biggest nerf to the Shuri deck is that taskmaster no longer copies the skull of its no longer in play.. if locations or a poor draw cause you to end up with an unprotected skull you can hard counter with Chang.

With that said it’s not a reliable counter

[–]TylerTheSandwich 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Devs are asleep at the wheel and it shows

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The taskmaster nerf is a huge buff to all other cards

[–]stickywhitesubstance 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Taskmaster nerf isn’t much. If your red skull got Shanged you only had one big lane. Now you have nothing but spending turns 4 5 and 6 on one big lane was never a winning line anyway

[–]FewyLouie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I dunno, I use Red Skull as the king of my Sauron deck and this is definitely a nerf for that. I don’t even have Shuri yet

[–]piconese 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you used iron fist and red skull turn 6 to scoot into sanctum with no enemy cards present, this is a nerf. They nerfed him, if only by a bit.

[–]SuperAzn727 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They literally said this lol.

Nerf to shuri boost, buff to red skull overall.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (12 children)

Changes made no sense.

Where is the leech nerf to a single turn or something.

[–]Siege_J 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Give Leech an Aero treatment. Only Leech 1 card!

But if we're talking about realistically, maybe Leech 2 random cards seem fair!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Some sort of limiter is needed, tons of ways to make the card effective but not a game killer.

I actually went with the lockthor deck because of being tired of leech.

[–]Julio_Freeman 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Do the numbers for 0-3 enemies at that location with a doubled Red Skull. Factor in Taskmaster copying less power and She Hulk also losing 1-2 power. Consider, at least in my experience, that Aero benefitted Shuri more than it hurt. The deck was definitely nerfed. Enough of a nerf? Probably not, but we'll see how it goes.

[–]parmreggiano 17 points18 points  (6 children)

aero did not benefit shuri more than it hurt. It was by far the most threatening card in the game vs shuri.

[–]Julio_Freeman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I said in my experience. I played a fair amount of Shuri and I was often protected by Cosmo or I had prio and Aero'd first.

[–]kaytothemo 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I'm one of the villains that mostly plays a Shuri deck and I can assure you I've won more games with Aero than I've lost to Aero. Play the deck often enough and you can generally tell when Aero's coming and retreat

[–]parmreggiano 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Retreats are losses.

[–]jbland0909 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

More than Shang Chi? I doubt it

[–]CosmicCap 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s a nerf for taskmaster tho

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have just lost a game because red skull didn’t give me 15

So that’s that

[–]gaspara112 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a current shuri player I think this change was perfect IF it also came with a change for shuri from 4/2 -> 5/5. That would force shuri players into having to make a ramp deck to be able to taskmaster the shuri’d card.

[–]SignificantProblem81 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Previous range 30- 22 . Current range 26-22 .

ItS nOt A nErF !!

[–]LightHawKnigh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I still find it vastly annoying that they were all like, we dont want to kill Red Skull, slight nerf that is actually a buff and then if he is still a problem fix him. Shuri, she doesnt need fixing, just fix cards around her. Aero, lets nerf her to the ground cause it would be too damn confusing if her ability was based on play order.

[–]Embruns -1 points0 points  (0 children)

SD will make shuri barely draws before turn 5, as usual with those card. Remember how you use to draw your zabu or mister - right in the curve?
I member. Except the same for shuri.

[–]exodus20v4 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

its a nerf, before with redskull and task master you could dishout 60 power in 5 and 6 with possibility of -8 power. Now with the redskull change its 52 - 4

[–]Royal-Throwaway7 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I just wanna know why they let this bs fly but do Aero so dirty? She was barely an issue.

[–]Blizzard_Greed -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

60-8=52; 52-4=48, definitely nerf.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

They also refuse to boost bad cards, all those balance problems may kill the game in the long run.

[–]MHG_Brixby 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Except for all the times before where they've buffed bad cards

[–]Sour_Uranium 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This math only applies when you have shuri

[–]isaacooper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And he's now better without her!

[–]1000Years0fDeath 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What does this mean?

[–]ryry1237 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Buff for Red Skull on its own

Slight nerf for Shuri'd Red Skull.

More significant nerf for Taskmaster copying Shuri'd Red Skull.

Really this change is a Taskmaster nerf.

[–]Nightmare1340 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's what i thought yesterday.

[–]Foxx1019 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So the Shuri I've been sitting on in the shop for a week is justified? Nice

[–]zackpoop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They also nerfed the interaction with zero which Siri decks don’t normally rely on anyway

[–]Tyrschwartz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Needs to be 5/11 with the -1. That puts his lower end better in line.

[–]Rotz77 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I put Nakia in the shuri/redskull/task deck and now it's even better lol

[–]slickriptide 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since the patch notes actually said, "this change is mostly a buff to the base case usage for Red Skull" I can't see how anyone would see this as a nerf to the card.

[–]Baquvix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They nerfed zero and sauron decks smh

[–]TravincalPlumber 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why shuri didnt get nerfed.