On Wednesday, David Postman of The Seattle Times reported on the considerable resources the Building Industry Association of Washington (BIAW) has invested into putting Dino Rossi in the governor’s mansion [Governor’s race over, but the fighting isn’t.]
The BIAW’s Tom McCabe brags that he spent $750,000 on Rossi before the election, and God knows how much in the couple months since. A “Governor Rossi” would surely be grateful:
“There are a number of organizations that have been helpful, but as far as the money and staff resources spent, I don’t think there is one that has been more active than BIAW,” said Afton Swift, Rossi’s campaign manager.
Now that’s an understatement.
Rossi was the BIAW candidate at least as much as he was the GOP’s, and in the unlikely event he manages to get this election set aside, he’ll know who to thank. The BIAW has hired lawyers and handwriting experts, and has its entire staff of 30 employees sifting through election records and running the “re-vote” PR campaign. Their operations dwarf that of either of the official parties, and their partisan zeal is unmatched. And oh yeah… they are total bastards.
Ironically, the strongest testimony to the integrity of Washington’s elections is the relative dearth of dirt the BIAW has uncovered for all its expense of blood and treasure. Scouring the voter rolls for dead people and felons, the BIAW has generated more smoke than fire. In Pierce County, The Seattle Times managed to quickly rule out all but 19 of the 52 voting felons the BIAW originally claimed — and confirmed only two. And of the handful of votes from beyond the grave discovered statewide, two are known to have voted for Rossi.
And then there were the public hints the BIAW kept dropping that they had evidence of forged signatures on a number of the affidavits Democrats gathered during the first count… only later to describe it as potential signature fraud… and eventually just questions about signatures… before finally, well… I haven’t heard much about this “scandal” lately, have you?
All this might be evidence enough for the BIAW’s fans on the right-wing blogs, so tickled by happy dreams of putting Democrats behind bars that they’ve lost the ability to distinguish fact from fantasy. But Supreme Court decisions tend to be more reality based, and the reality is, these builders haven’t built much of a case.
The BIAW’s best chance of installing their hand-picked governor, was to bully a Democratic senator or two into breaking ranks during the procedural vote on certification. But having failed that, I still don’t expect them to give up their jihad any time soon. They hate government, despise Gregoire, and genuinely seem to relish playing the role of Republican-Party-by-proxy. (And did I mention the fact that they are total bastards?)
This take-no-prisoners approach has its risks… at least for Rossi. If the legal evidence doesn’t match the hype, voters will eventually grow weary of this election, turning some of their anger back onto the accusers, and potentially shredding the political career of the BIAW’s gubernatorial sock-puppet.
No biggie. Come 2008, they’ll just shove their fists inside another sock.
and the way they use the “retro rebate” program in our workers compensation system to finance their highly partisan political campaigns.
I had heard of how they skim money off the top of the insurance programs but didn’t know the details until now:
The BIAW’s “retro rebate” program is the biggest in the state, with 5,200 members. It is also extremely well run, netting $25 million in rebates to date this year alone.
Its tough to believe that municipalities are allowing this to happen.
If someone wants to believe in a conspiracy theory, I guess this is it.
Here’s the whole story. Check to see if your city is siphoning off money to a right wing PAC. Maybe that’s why insurance rates are so high.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/f.....s_biaw.php
One thing is for sure. They have more money than they know what to do with. They were the only special interest group to submit their own legal brief during the last hearing before the Washington State Supreme Court. No doubt they will send their own separate legal team to Chelan and Olympia to buttress the republicans.
I have a simple response: The BIAW is useless. Besides, we don’t need them between Sound Politics, Josef’s Public Journal, Pull on Superman’s Cape, Hamilton’s Pamphlets, and Flag of the World.
Comment by Erik— 1/13/05 @ 11:50 pm
ANOTHER reason for Marummy to put these guys in the brig!
Scared of the BIAW, Josef? They’re doing your side’s work. And Rossi is grateful for it. Once again, Josef demonstrates his ignorance.
Once again, Josef demonstrates his ignorance.
Ha. I don’t know about that. Joseph is probably pretty smart but he’s busy trying to get someone to visit his blog so he keeps dropping his URL everywhere.
THROW OUT THE ILLEGAL VOTES,COUNT ALL THE LEGAL ONES AND WHOEVER IS AHEAD AT THE END WINS!!!END OF STORY T.H.”OPEN MINDED CONSERVATIVE”
Only a revote can show what happened in this election. There is no way you can remove the illegal votes because they are mixed in with the real votes. then king county enhanced 55000 votes I guess we can throw them out too. The enhancement violated state law. Too many irregularties are showing up. Each one does not make a crime but too many of them can easily cause a close election to be thrown into the courts. Every item found, Every discrepancy found had been listed in previous reports on King County voting practice audits. Only a revote will removed the cloud over the governorship. It is something that will cause lots of pain on both sides and really prevent discussions between the parties to do what is right for the state. As it is it will be an ugly Legislative session. Democrats want to increase the budget spending by 15% that means tax hikes. It appears that the Democrats want to increase taxes and will use this to get those items through the legislature because they control everything. Can we say income tax anyone. We have a lot of problems keeping businesses in this state. It use to be that CA was worse now they are leaving and returning to CA. I wonder why.
THe cloud that is forming is not pretty. Watch Olympia closly because they themselves do not want the status quo to change.
Comment by TOM HAMER— 1/14/05 @ 5:34 am
Uh, that’s what happened. Rossi lost.
SO GOLDY–
1) The Dems say they want this election to be handled in the Courts one day and then legally try to send it back to the Legislature the next. Say one thing..do the opposite.
2) The Dems say they want the truth to come out in Court, but they fight to delay discovery and label it a “fishing expedition”.
Goldy, since when do you support not being able to quickly and openly question public servants? What do they have to hide Goldy?
Dean Logan, Bill Huennekens and KingCO staffers…do they realy think they will not eventually be questioned under oath about their actions?
I guess we wouldn’t want to hurt their self-esteem by holding them accountable ASAP would we Goldy?
Sadly, you and your ilk would do anything, including OBSTRUCT JUSTICE, to further your Leftist causes of socializing damn near everything (except your rights of course).
That’s it Goldy, tar and feather all the business associations that create jobs for millions. Let’s let the State Government take care of all of us so we are free to not compete or take risks. We can all go on the Gregoire “healing tour” and follow the pied piper.
Keep attacking the business groups Goldy.
FYI–
The BIAW’s, Contract Logger’s and other similiar groups represent tens of thousand of small businesses GOLDY. You are not fighting corporate America here. Corporate American disgusts me too!
You are attacking the fundamental building blocks of a good and decent economy. Associations and their small business members need to be encouraged to fight for a better economic climate so more small business jobs will be created.
Do you really think that business will be well-served relying on Big Labor Unions and their puppet, Ms. Gregoire, doing the “right things” without a strong, organized small business effort at the table??
Comment by David Anfinrud— 1/14/05 @ 5:51 am
Once again, there is no such thing as a “revote”. If you want a special election, have the courage to say so. As for election irregularlities being sufficient for the election that was conducted (warts and all) to justify nullifying that election, that’s for the courts to decide, not a bunch of bloviating nut jobs.
Comment by Mr. Cynical— 1/14/05 @ 6:00 am
Bloviating.
I just love hearing Cynical talk about the left “tarring and feathering” the BIAW. Cracks me up. I know you’re paid to post here for them, Cynical, but you’re stretching credibility now. The BIAW has been hurling unproven and disproven invective at Gregoire like there’s no tomorrow.
It all comes down to the fact that you can dish it out, but can’t take it. Stop being such a “cry-baby”
David… No, a revote can only show us what happened in a new election.
And Cynical… I no more believe that the membership of the BIAW is on average as extreme as the leadership, as I do the same of organized labor.
So. All you little lib PI quoters…no mention of todays editorial? Nah, of course not that would border on honesty.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....ert13.html
Friday, January 14, 2005
‘Personal legacies’ and our new governor
By ROBERT L. JAMIESON Jr.
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST
Christine Gregoire dropped her inaugural speech on the ears of the state.
The new governor said one thing.
I heard and thought another.
Gregoire told the crowd in Olympia the other day that “we all have a chance to have a positive influence in the lives of others” because “we all leave personal legacies for the people we know and love.”
She mentioned pivotal folks in important places when she was younger who shepherded and encouraged her “never to let barriers get in the way” of her dreams.
She promised measures to ensure that “no student gets lost in the crowd and disconnected from his or her own potential.”
Hearing all of this, my brain flashed back, first to Gregoire’s sorority days at the University of Washington.
As president of Kappa Delta sorority more than three decades ago, she tolerated a “whites-only, Christians-only” rule. She presided over rituals with hooded white robes that even reminded some of her own sorority sisters of the Ku Klux Klan and the sorority’s racist roots.
The exclusionary policies hurt young students of color and Jewish students who wanted to feel included in the university milieu. In particular, the policies had a profound impact on Paula Moore, a smart, pretty African American woman from Seattle, who approached the sorority only to be rebuffed. “I’m not bitter about this,” UW archives quote Moore as saying. “I only hope that my case will give others a better chance in the future.”
Privately, Moore was crushed by the rejection, according to her sister. “She never fully recovered emotionally,” the sister recalled to me recently. “She took it to her grave.”
How’s that for leaving a positive influence on others, for lifting barriers to dreams?
Gregoire smiled during her speech in the Capitol Building.
She preached about “a legacy of holding government accountable” and the importance of requiring “agencies to be more effective and efficient in achieving results, and ensuring that public tax dollars are being spent wisely.”
Her comments triggered the memory of when she was state attorney general. Her office missed a deadline to appeal a $17.8 million jury award to three disabled men abused while under state care. At the time, the 2000 judgment was the largest personal-injury verdict ever lodged against the state.
Instead of absorbing blame for the botched appeal — as a laudable chief would — Gregoire ducked, blaming an assistant, Janet Capps. That doesn’t sound like taking responsibility for an error that walloped wallets of Washington taxpayers. It looks more like a calculating politician covering her rear end and finding a scapegoat.
Some lawmakers clapped as the governor’s speechifying continued. Gregoire touched on her fine intentions to improve access to health care. She said she wants to clean up the electoral machine, which showed many warts during her bitterly contested race against Dino Rossi, the GOP candidate.
Gregoire said the people of our state must change “the way we think about partisan politics, and change … the way we reach out to each other and reconcile our differences.”
I wondered if she was tapping a deep swamp of subconscious guilt about her own less-than-lustrous actions. In the post-election whirl, she blamed Rossi for being whiny in disputing ballot numbers and for fishing for votes.
Didn’t Gregoire whistle the same tune when she was behind, before a manual recount put her on top? Didn’t she famously say every vote ought to count?
Gregoire speaks for reconciliation. Now.
But not so long ago she showed immaturity and incivility by lashing out at Ron Sims, her Democratic opponent during the gubernatorial primary. Gregoire assumed — ignorantly and wrongly so — that Sims had a nefarious hand in political machinations that gave life to the story of her ugly sorority past.
She neither earnestly nor publicly apologized to Sims for blasting him at a public gathering. Cut it out, Ron, she scolded, as if Sims, the King County executive, were a terrible toddler.
The governor also never said sorry from her heart about her sorority history. Yes, she gave the politically safe answer, saying she did what she could to fight the good fight at the time. She was just trying to work from inside a racist system — doing so, presumably, between segregated cocktail mixers and bunny slipper sleepovers.
“If we want unity,” Gregoire said, nearing the end of her speech on Wednesday, “we must all be unifiers. If we want accountability, each of us must be accountable for all we do.”
I started to feel queasy.
“As Gandhi so famously said,” Gregoire rhapsodized, “we must all ‘be the change we want to see in the world.’ ”
I wanted to throw up. Gandhi’s ghost, I’m sure, wouldn’t want to be invoked in the face of such hypocrisy, either.
As the governor embarks on her future of change, she’d do well to take an honest look in the cracked mirror of her past.
What Gregoire (the person) would see would not reflect what Gregoire (the newly anointed politician) says.
That Democratic Party sponsored editorial makes no sense.
The people want Rossi. No one in their right mind wants Governor-Pretend Fraudiore. The real GOONS in this election mess are the DemoRats politicians and the election officials (DemoRats, suprise!) of King County. REVOTE!
But It’s okay for the unions to siphon off money from their workers
without any say by the workers, and give it to the Democrats.
Comment by Mount Olympus Hiker— 1/14/05 @ 1:33 am
Not scared, scornful of them.
Comment by HowCanYouBeProudtobeAnASS— 1/14/05 @ 8:13 am
Thanks. Yup, you all either you’re w/ the racist, evil bleep Ku Klux Klan evildoer or you’re with the first Republican since Reconstruction to reach out to non-whites.
And I’m white. GO DINO! GO MARUMMY!
I am going to sat something that will suprise many of you out there. In regards to this election we had a certain amount og felons votiong, that being illegal it needs to be addressed and part of the reason for revoing or a runnoff election for you definition sticklers. But the reason for this post is I think a push needs made to kill the law that prevents a felonius person once released from his obligation should be entitled to vote. After a person is released from prison, they have quite a load to bear as it is (admitedly the person brought it on himself) but to ask (or expect) this person to return to a life where he gets a job and pays his taxes like a “normal member of this society” without a say in how the taxes are spent or the laws that affect him are a bit much to add to an already bad deal. I think we should give our felons the right to vote after they have paid for their crimes. That being said right now it seems we have illegal vote and that should be considered in an overturning of this election.
Oh and I forgot – Orbusmax.com has this blog entry hyperlinked.
I still don’t get this botched appeal thing. How is it her fault?
Any competent lawyer knows when the appeal deadline is. It isn’t the responsibility of the attorney general to sign the notice of appeal, but of the attorney who handles the case. Is the attorney general supposed to check every detail of an important case? Is she supposed to hound the adults who work with her, say: make sure you meet all your appeal deadlines? How many cases does the office appeal – it must be hundreds.
Chuck… I agree 100 percent about restoring the voting rights of felons. Though somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought WA already restored voting rights automatically, once the sentence was served and any required restitution made.
ProudAss… A) Jamieson’s piece is a personal column, NOT and editorial, and B) that’s exactly the type of critical piece I expect to see of a legitimate, sitting governor.
I think a lot of the undeserved rancor over this election is due to the fact that people on both sides have tended to conflate the candidates with the process.
but I thought WA already restored voting rights automatically, once the sentence was served and any required restitution made>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No this doesnt happen, they still must go to court and prove to a judge that he has resumed an “honest” life. The only reason I know this is I have a freind that did something stupid 3 days after he turned 18 (like 12 years ago he stole a dirt bike) his only crime and he is a productive member of our society and he cannot own a gun or vote. (his crime had nothing to do with violence or a gun). The motorcycle was worth the amount of money that made it a felony.
Here are the exact details on how to get your voting rights back. It is true that once you complete the conditions of your sentence, including any legal financial obligations, your right to vote is yours – but you do have to jump through some hoops to get it back.
http://www.aclu-wa.org/ISSUES/......vote.html
Chuck, I would support “liberalizing” the law regarding felons’ voting rights, but you understand that many Republicans would not, as they assume that felons predominantly vote Democratic. And I sincerely doubt that with the political climate created by the BIAW on this particular issue, we could get much traction in the Legislature on such a reform.
Comment by Goldy— 1/14/05 @ 10:22 am
Nice try. I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again: We need a NEW candidate for the revote. What Gregovych did then to Ron Sims and to other African-Americans wasn’t the gubernatorial nominee of the party of LBJ and JFK and WJC (William “Bill” Jefferson Clinton).
I wonder if those of you complaining about the bia compesation “scam” think it fair that the unions take mandatory, forced union dues and use it for politics all the time. Some of that money from members who would never give their money to those causes. Are you going to be intelectually honest and admit that this too is wrong? I didn’t think so.
Comment by Mavrik — 1/14/05 @ 10:48 am
I’m wrankled by both. Also, FYI: the hand counters were NOT forced to pay Teamster dues.
Some observations;
Josef wants his name in the PI as a cyber slueth, there is no other reason to keep posting his link (even though he presents nothing of substance). Jcricket is actually Chris Gregoire herself posting from the mansion, Mr Cynical is probably a pissed off union laborer that wants to work at BIAW and quit paying mandatory union dues, Bob from Boeing should probably do some work for the people that pay him instead of Blog all day, we havent heard from Jim ( I am a big shot lobbyist that only bills $9k a year) King in a bit and he is probably busy kissing up to Democrat legislators for no reason other than to make himself feel good like a typical Democrat. Chuck is posting from Walla Walla or Shelton and wants to vote when he is parolled in 08, and finally Goldy is actually being subsidized by the PI and Times to back up thier BS rhetoric about proving fraud. All in all, a bunch of cyber lawyer wanna bees… But entertaining none the less. ( All in good fun right boys?)
Goldy. Nice argument. Stooping to ad hominem attacks that the BIAW are “total bastards.”
And I suppose you believe there was no money from any third party political or PAC ogranizations supporting Gregoire?
It must be tough seeing the BIAW expose evidence that indeed shows that this election was too close to call, but keep your emotions in check lest you discredit your arguments.
Comment by Angry Voter— 1/14/05 @ 11:43 am
And you?
Erik,
My name says it all, I am ANGRY and I VOTE.
“In Pierce County, The Seattle Times managed to quickly rule out all but 19 of the 52 voting felons the BIAW originally claimed – and confirmed only two.”
I plead ignorance — and amazement. Where/when did this come to light? Link?
Man… I wish. If one of them wants to pay me for a weekly column, I’d sign up in a heartbeat.
SOS provided D.O.B. informatin to the times but refused to supply the same to BIAW. That is why they; “In Pierce County, The Seattle Times managed to quickly rule out all but 19 of the 52 voting felons the BIAW originally claimed”. Is the SOS would supply the same information to BIAW they could mor equickly and accurately investigate, but I know that is not what any of you want…A rapid and thorough investigation. You prefer to put up round blocks and poo-poo the idea that illegal votes may have spoiled this election. BTW – Yes I know the SOS is an R but it does not change the fact that it’s a road block to public release of information (but only to BIAW, no problem with giving the DOB information to the Times) and that you all support this action. Also, why do you resist “Discovery” unless you are afraid of the outcome of such discovery?
Observation about Angry Voter: so angry his anger has blotted all thought and perspective as well as productive relationships with people.
They say you shouldn’t drive while angry. Maybe it applies to other things like voting as well.
Don’t you all want to have a governor that really won? Whether it is Gregoire or Rossi? Unless you are in complete denial there i no way you can honestly say you know who won. There is much more then reasonable doubt. Do you not think Gregoire will win a new election? Is your canidate weaker now or stronger? Your fear of a new election answers that question.
Chris – if the suit is not well founded in law- why do 6 months of discovery? Millions of dollars and hundreds of people. Remember in Discovery – every party to the case, now about 50 gets to ask all the questions of anybody they want. Might be a very big and time consuming project.
No one on this post is afarid of anything. Depose the felons, might be intereting to see who they voted for. Law and order Gregoire or sly and smiling Dino?
Jeff B… I didn’t just call them “total bastards”, I provided a link to entry that explains why I think they are total bastards. And as far as my use of foul language to describe them, you should read some of the comments coming out of the potty-mouth of their spokesperson.
RonK… oops… I just realized I left out the link. I’ve updated the blog entry, but here it is: Governor’s race over, but fighting isn’t
A new election would be the most intereting slug fest in the history of this state.
R’s and their “we didn’t win cloud” have lost contact with reality.
Often fractured Democrats would unite behind Gregoire like they did not in the general election. The full spectrum of supportrs would just go to work. Rossi and the whinning blogers would not know what hit them.
There is no fear of losing amont democrats in a revote. Just not needed, anothe PR game by R’s. Nothing more…….
John,
I am not the only angry voter in WA… There are many.
Do you not think Gregoire will win a new election?
Its difficult to predict the future, however, I believe there is a 75 percent chance of Gregoire winning the governor’s election…..in 2008.
Erik,
I guess you havent seen the moore information poll, only 13% of the state thinks she actually won, only 40% would vote for her today… Rossi beats her by 7-10 points in a rematch.
Man… I wish. If one of them wants to pay me for a weekly column, I’d sign up in a heartbeat.
Yeah Goldy, but don’t you have hundreds of people “buying you a beer” from your website?
Interesting. So what you are saying is that regardless of the facts found, because you disagree with the BIAW or how it does business negates the FACT that more CONVICTED FELONS VOTED ILLEGALLY than Gregoire “won” the election by. This fact is provable in court. But, hey, say anything to keep your gal in office, irregardless if she actually won or not, right?
You guys are absolute morons or nothing but political hacks.
You choose which.
Political hack.
If Rossi can prove his case in court, then he should do so. Everything else is hot air. The courts are the proper place to make a challenge, not the court of PR fueled popular opinion. Rossi lost. Get over it.
R’s have no case. So some felons voted. No one likes that. Take the election from Gregoire? Why, she didn’t give them rides to the polls. Some small number of felons most likely always vote – very few out of 3 million ballots. PR stunt. Three or four old guys voted their dead wife. Send them a sympathy card and remove the names. Big fucking deal, for or five out of 3 million ballots. Another PR stunt.
Most of the lawsuit is just PR for the weak minded and unthinking. Rossi needs big time fraud. Did you read the Wall Street Journal editorial? The radical commie Wall Street Journal and the liberals that run it. How could they say no revote?
No case. Suit will fail. Gregoire will remain Gov. Onward.
So it’s OK to bash the biaw. But it’s not OK to question why Gregoire received a boatload of money from out of state interests to buy, er, purchase, er, whatever you want to call the “recount”.
Why don’t you all just take the biaw and all the other special interests you know of, or perceive of, out of the picture and take a look at the actual facts. Be honest.
Hundreds, if not thousands of truly un-accountable or illegal votes.
Votes added when they should have been reviewed first (admitted to by all parties involved).
Votes that were “found” (admitted to by all parties involved).
Votes submitted when they should have been reviewed (admiteed to by all parties involved).
For ONCE you all need to divorce yourself from partisan hate and just look at the pure and simple facts; This election was botched. Maybe Gregoire won? Maybe Rossi won? Nobody can possibly know. If you are truly honest and say that the right person should be in the office, regarldless of party affiliation, then you have to support a new election. I refuse to call it a re-vote. It is a new election. At the least it’s a “run-off.”
I know that each of you want the person you support to win but there is a point where you have to think outside of yourself and just look at the actual FACTS.
So you can continue to hide behind your venom and your obscurement of the facts by attacks on the biaw or the elections board or whoever. Or you can be honest and say that there were fatal errors in the election process this time that only become issues because of the closeness of the race. If Rossi had won democrats would be crying bloody murder and arguing the exact same things that the republicans are now arguing (wait!!! they already were before the 3rd count).
Dave – tell me who the shrinking pool of felons voted for? I think they liked Rossi – slick talker – connenctions to a felon or two from the old days of his career. Yes Dave, check it out, his former broker.
Think the voted for the hard core Attorney General? The one your side calls the Bitch. Geez, Dave.
The S. Times is following up on who really is a voting felon and the numbers alledged by the loud mouth Rossi propagand is way off, no surprise. Not good for the case, need some fact, FACTS.
You are the one with the thinking problems, Hack in the Sack Dave.
Soundingbadinthe crossing – What is all that about? Too much speed in the morning.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MANUAL RECOUNT – GREGOIRE SAID SHE WOULD LIVE WITH THE RESULT. ROSSI DID NOT ACCEPT HER CHALLENGE. BIG MISTAKE, SORE LOSER SYNDROME, TERMINAL STAGES.
Get over it, you lost.
Goldy,
I’ll buy you a beer, even though we disagree. I would be drinking scotch (walker and water if you please), but I’d buy you a beer. Imagine the discourse…Isn’t this a great countrY?
I am not the only angry voter in WA… There are many.
And they’re doing the wrong thing letting their emotions cloud their judgement and perspective.
There’s a good reason for laws and courts – they make people think twice before turning on one another.
A good reason to be automatically suspicious of people like the BIAW – they think money can buy them anything and make them invulnerable to anything. Making people like that back off is unfortunately a daily struggle.
You guys are absolute morons or nothing but political hacks.
You’re projecting, Dave.
Umm… at last count, it was six. (“People” that is, not “hundred”.)
Comment by Bob from Boeing— 1/14/05 @ 1:20 pm
Bob, you forgot the 348 provisional ballots that were illegally counted (which KC has already admitted), you forgot the 600 phantom voters who cast ballots without signing for them (which KC has stated publicly is what they think “probably happened), and you forgot the 55000 illegally modified ballots (which KC has already admitted). That last one in particular is what I think is going to get the election thrown out since it is a clear violation of the election law and it affected almost 2% of the total votes counted.
The dems are trying to postpone discovery because discovery (usually)is a public process and any and all depositions can be released to the public. The dems entire defense has been “we’re not criminals (no proof of fraud), we’re just incompetent.” Under discovery they are going to have to state under oath just how incompetent they are. The dems think they are losing the PR battle now, just wait.
:) Too much speed. Nah, it’s called thinking without blinders on.
You sound fairly intelligent and all I’m saying is the election was obviously botched no matter what side you are on. Gregoire thought it was so she called for the 3rd count. If she was truly happy with the way the elections board handled the election she would have called it good after the second count, no? Regardless, I’m an independent voter and think both of the candidates are freaking terrible.
One candidate with crappy management skills.
One candidate with a shady business past.
One candidate that would raise our taxes.
One candidate that would prostitute for business.
The real tragedy in our state is the amazing lack of choice and phenominal partisanship. You have all these people that continue to vote for a democrat legislature yet that same legislature keeps driving education, business, health care into the dirt in our state. Remind me again who cut COLA’s for teachers. Oh yeah the “education” party. Remind me who chased a majority of the small health care providers out of the state? Who oversaw the the Boeing rat jumping the ship? Who is pushing the amzing RTA boondoggle? And tell me that Gregoire is going to do any better?
But then there is Rossi. Who’s only claim is that he is a business man and he was in the state govt at the same time some of this was happening so is just as culpable.
So what are you really arguing for. Tell me because I don’t see it here. All I see is a partisan party hack trying to bolster 1 out of 2 crappy candidates and not really thinking for themselves.
Comment by Dave P— 1/14/05 @ 1:03 pm
Wow. There’s nothing funnier than reading someone use the “word” “irregardless” and then call me a moron. From dictionary.com:
“Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.”
As for the answer to your projected question, Dave P, it’s clear that you are both an absolute moron and a political hack.
Soundcrossing… I’ve said it before… I don’t think it is constructive to conflate the candidates with the process. You are really talking about two separate issues: 1) was this a reasonably clean election, and 2) why would anybody support any of these jokers?
I believe this election was reasonably clean. (Coming from the East Coast, I’d even say it was extremely clean.)
Yes… the election was flawed, and yes… the margin of victory was too far within the margin of error to confidently determine the winner. (I have been consistent on this point since before the hand recount.) But that is true of all close elections, and it just isn’t practical to set it aside simply because it was close. Our election statutes anticipate a certain amount of uncertainty, and accept it. After all, if this election had ended in a tie, we would have determined the winner by lot. How certain is that?
It is not enough simply to show that there were 129 or more errors. The Rossi folk must show the appearance that these errors benefited Gregoire to the extent that they likely changed the results. And they have provided no such proof thus far.
As to the second issue you raise, I’m not going to vouch for either one of these candidates, but I will argue that there are big ideological differences between the two parties that has a very real impact on public policy.
Essentially, Democrats believe that government can be a useful tool for improving the quality of life for all citizens. Republicans do not. A Rossi administration would give us massive environmental, land use, and workplace safety deregulation. I’m all in favor of reform, but I’m not for cutting our regulatory system off at the knees. I’m not for an expanded policy of corporate tax breaks while burden continues to shift to low and middle income households. And I’m not for the kind of conservative social agenda that Rossi would be empowered to enact give one strategic retirement on the US Supreme Court.
Comment by Peter— 1/14/05 @ 12:31 pm
Back it up! How is this suit not well founded in law. It is really easy to say it or write the words now back it up. You can’t. Tell me how it is not well founded in law. Also, just because something is time consuming do you not do it.
Goldy – Great comments. I am actually for a blending of the two ideologies. I think moving too far to the proverbial “left” or “right” is bad for any govt.
One of the reasons why whenever I try to talk politics I work to vet both sides before I stick my foot in my mouth.
Agreed that there has to be a semblance of regulation to protect our citizens.
But again, considering the last 8-12 years, what has our democrat led WA State govt. done for the state?
I think many people realize this. A state that traditionally falls very heavily democrat all of the sudden almost elects a Republican? Look at how Kerry carried the state and contrast that with Gregoire’s historically lacluster support.
The governmental environment in this state is terrible. There is a time that people have to say, my party is doing a bad job. We outspend our budget in our state like GWB outspends the US’s.
Unfortunately the current governor elect will probably do nothing to change that. When I hear my reps talking about new revenue streams and pushing for a blend of state income tax and sales tax I know we aren’t going to be spending less to close our gap. We are going to be trying to tax WA more so they can spend more.
Sometimes you have to say enough is enough. So you bet this time I supported Rossi.
All you have to do is look at the disengenuous Mr. Locke. Hold his nose and keep from saying the dreaded “T” word until after the election, and then immediately as if it is some cathartic mantra WA State reps and governor alike sighed and said ,,, “TAXES.” Imagine that.
joseph, you are babbling rubbish again, for a while you were somewhat sane, but alas, back to the deep dark recessed of your feeble mind.
to getarealjob if you had any intelligence you would know simple arithmetic. alas, i guess you failed those classes. your feeble type seem to think that Rossi won the popular vote. he didn’t and that is that, Christine won outright and you must learn to get on with your twisted, demented and scornful life.
you should GETAREALLIFE and then maybe you could fit in with the majority of this great state
Quick get Goldy some kleenex. Gee a business group supporting a business friendly Governor candidate in Dino Rossi; what a surprise! Where the hell do you think JOBS COME FROM??? If the same insane attitude that has been played out by outgoing Gary Grid-locke and his democrat ilk, there will only be positions for the welfare type like Goldy waiting for handouts to type their blogs.
The real need is for this State to throw off the corruption that was rampant during the election and have a revote and demand that people show ID and a voters registration card to be allowed to vote and only vote ONCE. It wouldn’t hurt if the voters were alive too.
Dan–
Goldy does not understand where real jobs come from. He bashes Corporate America and bashes Trade Associations that respresent small businesses. In Goldy’s world we all work for the government and our principle product is bureaucratic goo that feeds on itself and us all. Washington State won’t be getting much Federal help this next year. I’m glad I already sold one of my homes recently and I have other real estate on the market. WHY?? Income taxes and other taxes & regulation. Guys like Goldy are bright and articulate and ocassionally clever. However, they have big blind spots. His idea of success is having the Dems control the Governor’s Office, the State House, the State Senate and KingCo. Then Goldy wants to gut Trade Associations and empower the Unions more. Great formula Goldy!
Oh, and just for good measure, Goldy wants Gregoire in power so we retain 20 years of the same Party’s bureaucratic goo. Gregoire has shown ala Marty Brown & others that her idea of reform is to take Locke’s buddies and play musical chairs with them….I’m sure they will all get nice raises too.
Goldy, this is exactly what you are pushing. Are you sure that’s what you really want? I suppose as long as you get a piece of the government action as an employee or “gov’t contract stiff” you will overlook all the injustices you pretend to be concerned about.
Ah yes, the world according to Goldy…a society of Left-wing bureaucratic fat-cats living in Utopia with big salaries, 20-hr. work weeks, 8 weeks vacation, huge pension and oh yea A DIAMOND BENEFIT PACKAGE. Just one problem with your world Goldy…how will you pay for it.
I’m waiting for your shallow denial Goldy.
Be clear Goldy…and be specific about your plan.
Or is it so secret Goldy, that YOU don’t even know what it is!!?
Cynical… you’re sounding like such a defeatist these past couple days. Come on… snap out of it.
FYI, the only taste of tax dollars I’ve ever had, was selling some site licenses for my rhyming dictionary software to elementary schools… at a steep discount. I believe I may have one such licensee in WA state, but I’m not sure, as these sales were always handled through a reseller.
But then, you knew I’ve never been a government employee or contractor when you wrote your post… so please explain to the rest of the class your motive for spitting up a lie like that and presenting it as fact.
And as to my plan… everybody knows that my main issue is tax restructuring, be something along the lines of that recommended by the Gates Commission, or the very creative proposal from Ron Sims (which by the way, eliminates all direct taxes on business receipts, income or purchases.)
Do any of you here understand how the L&I retro program works? It is an overpayment into an unacountable system that the assocations manage claims to encourage safety in the workplace. If an individual business dosent protect its workers, it dosent get refunds. It is supposed to encourage safe work practices and rewards those that do…
Goldy–
You are so naive, you are ALMOST adorable.
The RON SIMS tax plan that does away with B&O tax will be morphed into something that results in an overall higher tax burden. Just repackaging that results in a net tax gain for the bureaucrats.
Implementing a State Income Tax will have unwanted consequences. People assume Washington will remain the principle residence for all the “Fat Cats” you plan on milking. I’m a CPA Goldy. I can assure you many of these people will “flee” Washington State along with the taxable income you desperately want to fleece.
And “nailing” the corporations? That will backfire too Goldy. Perhaps Microsoft will stay and pay. Just watch the “incentives” for certain businesses. Changing our system will result in the ultimate political tax corruption…politicians peddling favors. And Don Ron Sims will be a prime broker. Count on it. You are an intelligent, charming guy Goldy…but when it comes to taxes and consequences, you can’t see beyond you schnoz. Apparently you believe if this Blue-Ribbon Gates Tax Plan says everything will be much better to believe it on face value because you are “star-struck” by the Gates name. Wake-up Goldy!
Goldy, you also misread or misunderstood my reference to “government employee”. I never said you were a government employee now. I know you aren’t. What I said was in this new Democrat created UTOPIA, you would be a Government employee because you will not be able to afford to be otherwise due to the Left tax & regulate approach.
Be very careful about your pipedreams Goldy. They will turn into nightmares because PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE TO INVEST ANY MORE CAPITAL HERE. THEY WILL GO TO MORE BUSINESS-FRIENDLY STATES. WITHOUT THE BUSINESSES, THE DECK OF CARDS CRUMBLES…ESPECIALLY WITH THE R’S IN CHARGE IN D.C. NO GOVERNMENT MONEY GOLDY..NOT HERE.
You can continue to attack big corporations and trade associations which represent small business and support big Labor with a total Dem controlled House, Senate, Governor and KingCo. But I guarantee it’s a recipe for disaster. You need balance…quick!
Yes, I understand how retro rebate works, and I’m not opposed to retro per se. But clearly there is a lot of fat that BIAW is skimming off the top, and there are some reform proposals out there that would pass more of the savings back to businesses.
Goldy–
I doubt seriously that you understand how Retro works and I can prove it with one question (maybe 3):
1) How is the Retro refund pie (overall Retro refund $$ distributed by L&I) determined? Fundamental question. If you can’t answer this in 1 sentence you are a lying idiot Goldy…because you just told us you know how it works!
2) What are Loss Development, Performance Adjustment and Loss Conversion Factors?
3) Why was Retro created by L&I?
4) How are Rates and Experience Factors determined?
These are simple questions Goldy. If you answer these, you get to advance to Round 2. If you can’t answer them without research, then you are a lying idiot Goldy. You really don’t understand Retro, do you Goldy? Just admit it. Don’t cover-up like Dean L.
Would you like to actually learn how Retro works Goldy?
If you actually knew (not just take Big Labors explanation), you may see it benefits business, workers and L&I. The ONLY government/private partnership of substance that actually produces some value.
I’m sure no matter what anyone says though Goldy, your hatred of BIAW and other Trade Associations blinds you so much, you will never try to see the value. You will only be seeking for ways to try and screw with BIAW.
Cynical you are so unhinged, I don’t see how anyone can trust you with their books.
You are also projecting. All the hate you spew at Goldy is a fun-house mirror image of your own twisted dreams for your “team”.
But keep the comments coming. It’s going to be interesting to see twist and burn as your side fails in court. Who knows you might be forced to do something sensible like ending your wild blog rants and devoting the freed up time to your family or serving your paying clients.
Chuck – i you are out there – tell us again how Microsoft is moving to Vegas – that was your theory of things weeks ago.
Building the Foundation office in Seattle, giant expansion in Redmond. Must be the good business climate.
Comment by Goldy— 1/14/05 @ 7:27 pm
“clearly there is a lot of fat that BIAW is skimming off the top, and there are some reform proposals out there that would pass more of the savings back to businesses”
Cleary there is more fat that L & I is skimming off the top from those snall businesses that are stuck paying directly to the State. Look into L & I rates and then maybe you can empathize with a few non-neocon Rossi voters. I know little about BIAW, but give them credit for at least offering an attempt at an alternative with the retro program.
Goldy–
You obviously don’t understand Retro. Stop pretending.
PS: I don’t hate Goldy. As a matter of fact, I truly appreciate both Goldy & Sharkansky…they are the Hannity & Colmes of Washington State bloggers! Goldy has previously used harsh words himself John.
John…don’t be such a girlie-man!!!
I doesn’t surprise me that you watch Faux News, Cynical.
Hannity, the all-american Irish golden-tounged, Republican shill
motor-mouth.
vs.
that squirelly liberal Colmes who once in a great while sprouts
a little spine. Is that how you see Goldy?
“I love all my liberal friends. Good liberal, good liberal!”, spews Hannity.
Talk about damning with faint praise.
Cynical –
Ahhhnold the Terminator here. Look if things don’t work out in Washington State I’m gonna need your help here in Caleefuurnia Right now I’m doin’ the bench press with the liberals here. They want me to do foolish things like raise taxes on rich people the way they were under Pete Wilson. I tell them they must be crazy – the rich people will only move across the border to Nevada or even up to Washington State besides the people who make the big bucks in Hollywood can’t move – they gotta drive around here to cut the deals. Face to face counts in Hollywood not that girlie-man telecommuting crapola. Its so unfair.
Those crazy liberals even want me to mess with Proposition 13! Look Cynical when I came to this country I was in the right place at the right time and I got rich so I don’t begrudge granny and granpa in their old house paying a few hundred a year in property tax while their younger neighbor pays a little more. I also don’t have a problem with those landlords trying to feed their families and put their kids through college with their rents – it’s a jungle out there. Believe me I know – I worked in Hollywood.
These liberals have even infected the thinking of my advisor Warren Buffet! Here’s the second richest man in the world being in favor of raising property taxes! Some people just have too much money! They ought to relax once in a while and enjoy it with their families!
No new taxes Cynical, read my lips. So I have to make the tough decisions like cutting home health care workers pay to the minimum wage. I feel their pain – I know there are people behind the numbers. But too bad. As they say in the movies – you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. You have to suck it up and take the pain just like I did in body building all those years before I hit it big in Hollywood.
So Cynical I need your help. Donna Arduin has jumped ship to join Art Laffer in promoting the Laffer curve. I agree with you. Washington State is going to the dogs. The girlie-men and women liberals up there remind me of the Socialists I escaped from in Austria. I need a good numbers man.
Come to Caleefuuurnia! Cynical, I will PUMP YOU UP!
Sincerely,
Ahhhnold the Terminator
Governor of Caleefuurnia
Cynical,
Please excuse me! How could I forget?
Please leave your response to my offer here on this wacko leftist comment area. This Goldy fellow – he is a pretty humorous guy for a liberal. If he’s interested maybe he can help my staff with a few jokes for my after dinner speeches. There are room for token liberals on my staff as long as they know their place.
Thank you Cynical.
I’LL BE BAAACK!
Sincerely,
Ahhhnold the Terminator
Gropen… Err. Governor of
Caleeefuuuurneeeaaa
BIAW: Republican-Party-by-Proxy
How about WEA: DEMOCRAT-PARTY-BY-PROXY?
or TEAMSTERS: DEMOCRAT-PARTY-BY-PROXY?
or Washington State Labor Council: DEMOCRAT-PARTY-BY-PROXY?
or Federation of State Employees: DEMOCRAT-PARTY-BY-PROXY?
or Washington Alliance of Technology Workers: DEMOCRAT-PARTY-BY-PROXY?
To learn something new in life.