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all 56 comments

[–]fatherofhooligans:flair_og_jersey: OG Anunoby 44 points45 points  (0 children)

even if he isn't hitting his shots, the threat still opens things up for Scottie and Siakam to do their thing.

[–]godofhammers3000 36 points37 points  (0 children)

Poor guy is playing with plantar

He’s one of our best shooters you gotta keep him unless he’s asking for anywhere close to 30mm

[–]eLevateAFFN RAPTORS PRIDE 15 points16 points  (0 children)

His spacing is incredibly important. And sometimes you need a guy who can isolate off a DHO or PnR and get you a quick bucket to settle the game. Not many people on the team can really do that.

[–]Ok_Respond7928 41 points42 points  (32 children)

I don’t understand the hate for him if you want this team to go young and build around Scottie.

We have two shooters that teams are actually scared off GTJ and OG. GTJ is the only three point shooter who can hit shots while moving. We can trade him but then we are down to one shooter who is only good a spot up and stand still shots. You can’t build around Barnes like that.

He had a rough start to the year but in the last 8 games he is shooting 45% from three on 5.5 attempts.

[–]Electronic-Elk8917Pops Mensah-Bonsu 46 points47 points  (16 children)

All our players are hated on in this sub except Scottie.

[–]Dareal6 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You mean except Scottie right now lol. A ton of people jumped off the Scottie wagon last year. If he has a string of bad games, the hate will return.

[–]bullybabybayman 2 points3 points  (8 children)

And Malachi, this sub has a completely deranged view of the worst player on the team.

There are a lot of players on this team that I'd love to replace but only sheer lunacy could lead anyone to believe Flynn isn't the worst.

[–]Rakkuuuu 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Sounds like you're just upset people here don't hate him as much as you do.

[–]bullybabybayman 0 points1 point  (5 children)

The numbers say he's complete garbage. His supporters defend him using feels and meaningless platitudes from the coaches. Sorry my opinion is based on facts.

[–]Rakkuuuu 0 points1 point  (3 children)

He's been much better than he was last year and seems to be improving. I don't think he's a great bench player but I don't think people can say he has no worth as an NBA player. And that's all besides the point, it's not that the sub loves him, you're just salty they're not dog-piling him or something.

[–]bullybabybayman 0 points1 point  (2 children)

GTJ 13 pts +10

Flynn 3 pts -13

And the only one of these 2 I've seen anyone try to blame for the loss is GTJ.

Damn right I'm salty having to listen to a bunch of know nothings post dumb shit.

[–]Rakkuuuu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Obviously because people have much higher expectations for Gary than Malachi. It really isn't that hard.

[–]BurzyGuerrero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You big dumb, you just compared a guy who has had a role on the team for the past 4 years to a guy trying to find his role.

If anything the fact that you're comparing GTJ to Flynn shows how far GTJ has fallen more than anything. That dude used to start for us. Now he's getting compared to Malachi Flynn? Maybe GTJ is a bust.

[–]BurzyGuerrero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He's a backup guard getting 12MPG and has steadily gotten better as Darko has shown belief in him.

Guy isn't a world beater or anything but to say he hasn't improved is simply ignoring numbers that are right in front of your face, you aint watchin' games I know you see that box score.

Hollinger's PER ranks Malachi as the 42nd best PG in the league, which is definitely good enough to be the backup guard on a .500 team. They have him next to vets like Cam Payne, Dennis Smith Jr, Payton Pritchard, Marcus Smart, Bones Hyland, Ish Smith, Pat Bev, and Jevon Carter.

Nobody is saying Malachi is going to start on this team or that he has all star potential, but I think his performance to role ratio is pretty good given that he's averaging less minutes than a few of the guys he's as efficient as. On that list, Malachi has one of the lower turnover ratios.

None of these guys have an EWA, (effective wins added) and none of them change their teams USG, these are replacement level players. They're just depth.

Please bring more stats and less bullshit next time.

[–]BurzyGuerrero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Temple is worse.
Freeman-Liberty is worse.
Nowell is worse.

Bro ain't even the worst guard on the team.

[–]_Gourmand 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I think you forget this past offseason when people were talking trash about Scottie. He didn't have the best 2nd year so people jumped on him.

[–]BurzyGuerrero 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Starting next year Scottie's expectations are the team expectations.

Once he starts making playoffs he will be praised and blamed for everything.

[–]Rakkuuuu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only player I would say I dislike is Precious but Gary is showing more and more he's a very limited player. Still love him though and am cheering for him.

[–]Physizist 13 points14 points  (2 children)

Objectively speaking he has been very bad this season. 38% fg, 56% ft. His steal rate is way down, his scoring rate is way down (makes sense giving his shooting struggles).

GTJ has never been a good rebounder of playmaker, his value is his shooting and a little bit defence. He's not doing either of those well right now and his decision making has been awful. Not trying to hate but it's not looking good.

[–]_Gourmand 2 points3 points  (1 child)

37% from 3. Should throw that in there as well.

[–]Physizist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't mention that because it's not too bad or too amazing (for a guy who's whole role is shooting) and it's close to his career average so I'm not overly disappointed or impressed in that.

[–]MDS_1996 RAPTORS 7 points8 points  (4 children)

"I don’t understand the hate for him if you want this team to go young and build around Scottie."

Bringing up a players poor play is NOT hate lol

[–]RZAAMRIINF7 Kyle Lowry 1 point2 points  (3 children)

People here really think any criticism of players is hating. More people here are fan of the players than the team.

[–]Felfastus 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The first person to do it isn't hating...but when 50 people all decide to pile on it starts to be a bit much.

[–]RZAAMRIINF7 Kyle Lowry 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So 1 person is supposed to voice their opinion about players?

Yeah, I get it, it might be overwhelming to have an entire fanbase have opinions about your game.

But without the fans and their opinions these players wouldn’t make anywhere as much.

[–]Felfastus -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Its a struggle. Part of it is how people engage with reddit...Some say you should add your opinion others say you should add to the conversation (they are quite similar but there is nuance especially if someone has had posted a similar opinion that added to the conversation already).

But this sub can get super heavy just sifting through all the downright negativity on it. If you try and post anything that could resemble being supportive of the front office coach or players (other then Scottie) someone is going to either call you wrong or accuse you of being delusional.

The player monetization from reddit engagement is also not a particularly direct path.

[–]Followthehype10Kawhi 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Here's my beef with Gary he makes bad plays at bad times. It's not even about being streaky it's about looking for his and making bad plays because of it. He also shoots contested shots, and is not good off the ball getting open. I just don't think he is what this teams needs. Look at D.S. He just came to the team and is creating looks for himself and his team. We need more of that. You can tell when Gary gets the ball when he is going to force something dude has tunnel vision sometimes it's the same problem with Boucher and precious they make up their mind and that's what they are going to do no matter how the play plays out they are doing what the first instinct was which is not a high IQ way of thinking you need to read and react. The one thing I'll say about Boucher over them is he will atleast hustle hard every play.

[–]Fuckyafakenews 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100%. This was the problem with Fred last year as well.

[–]YoungSiddMessiah Ujiri[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right and I don't wanna make excuses, but it's worth remembering that both Gary and Precious are younger guys playing for their 3rd coach in 4 seasons.

Some guys just take longer to figure it out, Norm didn't find any consistency until he was maybe 27 years old.

[–]EarthWarping -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Criticism /= hate.

[–]AngryHelicopter -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I used to think he was destined to be really overpaid considering how limited a player he was. But that seems less likely now. If he's paid appropriately, his limitations are less concerning, I'd be happy to keep him around.

[–]hennessyisrael -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Nobody is building around Ben Simmons 2.0 ffs

[–]Bejtsen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I could have told you this as I’ve been saying since March 2022 Gary needs to be in the starting line up with OG, Siakam, and Barnes.

[–]2_7_offsuit 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Shooters gotta shoot. Or at least be a threat to shoot. Thats what makes space for the others

[–]sor2hi 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Adding spacing to our best players makes it easier to score. We need to flip our bench bigs into something that can space the floor. Really another scoring guard. Doesn’t matter how many we need to send out to do it.

[–]N0minal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably would have to look at his individual on/off numbers and EPM to get a clearer idea.

Just watching games, even though he's missing shots, his passing has improved. He's also literally, I mean literally, the only NBA level shooter the team has, so he generates more gravity at the perimeter, which allows all the forwards room in the post.

He's -2.9 epm, next to Payton Pritchard and Dean Wade and has a horrendous ts% and efg%.

[–]AngryHelicopter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The power of spacing! This is part of why I've kind of personally turned around on Gary, even though it seems like everyone else on this subreddit has decided he's the worst. I used to be very critical of him and his limitations and thought he was due to get overpaid, but now that an overpay is less likely I wouldn't mind keeping him around. I like his fit next to Scottie. The two of them play well together.

[–]YogurtResponsible785 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not surprising. Passes the eye test. We have zero spacing without him on the floor.

[–]willieb3 4 points5 points  (0 children)

He hasn’t been bad this sub is just fucking dumb. He’s made some bad plays in the clutch and he had a rough start to the season, that’s it. He played lights out last game other than that one play.

[–]vaalbarag RAPTORS 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I think part of that is just that a lot of these lineups overlap which creates the illusion of GTJ being in a lot of good lineups. For example, that unit where Barnes sits and Gary plays with the other starters accounts for 51 minutes, more than any other GTJ lineup, and includes all of 3/4/5. GTJ's next most common lineup is when he's subbing for OG with the other starters, accounting for 34 minutes. That encompasses 1, 2, and 5 here. Him in place of Poeltl with the other starters accounts for 15 minutes, and includes 1, 2, 3, and 4 here. Him instead of Schroeder accounts for only 5 minutes, but is a +37, and includes 1, 2, 3, and 5 above. The other starters+GTJ combination, where he plays in place of Siakam, accounts for only 1 minute.

Anyway, my point here is that a lot of GTJ's minutes come when he's playing with all starters. And he's great in that role! Just on a net rating basis, there's very little drop-off, but part of that is matchups... a lot of his minutes are in a 'first substitution' lineup, and based on this it definitely seems like our first-sub units are outperforming our opponent's on a regular basis.

The ongoing challenge with GTJ is that when he's asked to play a larger role within a lineup... where he doesn't have better players around him creating gravity, playmaking, defensive presence, etc. Put him with even just three starters and another bench-player, and the net rating starts to decline steeply.

Another way of looking at it with net ratings that supports this narrative is two-man lineups... he has a positive net rating with any other starter, and a negative net rating with every bench player except for Boucher and Porter. (The Porter + GTJ units have a sparkling +23 in 32 minutes... only two two-man units have a better net rating in more minutes (Siakam+Boucher at +46, and Porter+Anunoby at +26).

[–]Exceptionalwizard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not surprised.

[–]CazOnReddit TORONTO HUSKIES 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Who could possibly have seen Barnes + shooters would work?

If you're committed to Scottie, you need Trent to help space the floor

PS Look at what Norm did at age 24 before getting annoyed that Trent hasn't become some superstar

[–]Lewro2920 Bruno Caboclo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Norm came out as a senior. Gary has been in the league for awhile. I agree with you that guys can change and growth is not linear but everyone is different too. Just bc norm panned out, doesn't mean Gary will. Look at Boucher, he's improved some aspects of his game but his shot is still ugly af.

[–]EarthWarping 0 points1 point  (4 children)

He's not much more than a MLE guy. I'm lower on him than most.

If he'll take 3/56 sure, anything more is no thanks.

[–]CazOnReddit TORONTO HUSKIES 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It's way too early in the season to say what kind of guy he is. Yeah he's had a slow start but he's also coming off of plantar and fully adjusting to being the 6th man after being accustomed to starting, and that's not easy to do when you do your best with 2-3 of the starters instead of the Barnes + 4 bench guy lineups Trent has been stuck on thus far

[–]RZAAMRIINF7 Kyle Lowry 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gary has been in the NBA for 6 years. We know what kind of guy he is.

[–]EarthWarping 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm talking about his career. Guys like him are more common than you think.

[–]Lewro2920 Bruno Caboclo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same

[–]purpl3r3dpod RAPTORS 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He's played pretty well actually and he was shooting lights out the last 2 games. He just has made some mistakes in crunch time and this sub is full of people who don't watch the whole game. Dennis should not have given Gary the ball going into the corner on the strong side. He should have seen the D was loading that way and swung it to the weak side, nobody mentions that tho because this sub is such a joke.

[–]Barnicus57 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Let him walk in the summer and move on.

[–]Several_Repeat_5447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trent + starters = very good, Trent + bench = very bad

[–]KanyeDeOuest 4 SCOTTIE BARNES 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gary, Trent, and Jr?

[–]stonecoldturkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spacing=good

[–]BurzyGuerrero 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My main thought is "should have done that last year, now you have to fight Dennis for minutes."