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[–]noppy_dev 3302 points3303 points  (667 children)

wow. This game is crazy important for microsoft. I seriously wonder what state it’s in that they’d consider delaying it (obviously delays almost always make sense, but this project has had a lot of time...)

[–]alexpiercey 2649 points2650 points  (367 children)

I wonder if the negative reaction towards the graphical fidelity of the game is what the cause of the delay is. It definitely was a large part of the conversation following that showcase

[–]WaterHoseCatheter 1195 points1196 points  (144 children)

Well it's suppose to be the console seller of their incredibly powerful new console, so I imagine there was some expectation for them to pick up the slack.

[–]ThanOneRandomGuy 189 points190 points  (60 children)

I'm a huge Xbox fan but I think we need something more than a halo or gears exclusive game. I've only played the 2 just to see the hype and honestly don't care for neither

[–]JexTheory 102 points103 points  (33 children)

Agreed. Especially for the newest generation of buyers, they might not have played the older games so there would be no real interest in a next gen sequel.

Xbox needs a fresh IP like sony's ghost of tsushima or death stranding or something.

[–]GucciJesus 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Sony spent years building up those teams, developing them over time. MS bought a lot of devs, but it will be another generation before those teams are even close to pushing projects like that.

[–]Harold_Zoid 229 points230 points  (31 children)

I imagine the pandemic already put pressure on the team to be done in time for the holiday season. The lackluster reception of the demo probably made them realize that even more work needed to be done, for this to be the blockbuster Microsoft need.

[–]hashishins_creed 68 points69 points  (16 children)

Every time i see the word pandemic in a gaming sub it makes me think of the studio :'( lol

[–]Havoksixteen 54 points55 points  (15 children)

Mercenaries Playground of Destruction remake please!

[–]cinnamonmojo 236 points237 points  (31 children)

There's no way it's not, but also in general it was not the big reaction they likely wanted for a system seller. The Monke memes are probably what really broke them.

[–]DetectiveAmes 173 points174 points  (0 children)

Put some respect on Craig’s name.

[–][deleted] 118 points119 points  (25 children)

The Monke memes are probably what really broke them

this cracked me up

[–]LoinChops 79 points80 points  (19 children)

Good job everyone! You've memed Halo infinite into 2021!

[–]-netorare- 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Whoever controls the memes, controls the world.

[–]AltairdeFiren 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I mean shit, it worked for the Sonic movie..

[–]tkzant 188 points189 points  (37 children)

I’m sure it is. That was supposed to be their super polished vertical slice meant to show the game at its best and drum up hype and instead it was ridiculed and memed into oblivion. The art direction is rough, the visuals look current gen, and the GaaS direction makes it seem like if this game bombs then Halo is dead. This title will more than likely determine the future of Halo and 343i so they cannot mess it up.

[–]leeharris100 103 points104 points  (23 children)

The game IS current gen. It was built to run on the original Xbox One.

Microsoft fucked up by hyping the game alongside their insanely powerful console.

[–]116morningside 79 points80 points  (11 children)

Halo infinite should’ve been a series x exclusive

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (6 children)

So true. And all they could offer is Native 4k at 60fps.

But native 4k isn't that impressive when your textures, lighting, models, etc are all designed around something that can run on the weak AF base Xbox One.

It's like playing Halo 3, but in 2160p.

Yeah it's crazy sharp, but it still looks like an Xbox 360 game once you get over how sharp it is.

[–]Tezasaurus 73 points74 points  (1 child)

I think the gameplay demo revealed more about the game's current state than they intended. It set off Anthem-style alarm bells in my head, personally. Hell, we hear about devs quietly hoping their game gets called out or bad reactions to bring about changes in-house, like with Bioware... maybe the Halo demo was 343 making it clear in no uncertain terms to MS that they needed more time, and the public response persuaded them to not force it as a launch title.

Anyway, I'm sure lots of people will revel in this announcement, but the fact of the matter is it can only result in a better game and that's good for everyone. I hope the game turns out fantastic and this whole ordeal is another feather in the "give devs the time they need to make a game great" hat.

[–]smileyfrown 669 points670 points  (44 children)

Probably more to do with the pandemic. They couldn't even get ray tracing for XSX on launch, that's a sign that tells me they were cutting whatever they could to rush the game out for holiday.

[–]Captain-Griffen 421 points422 points  (25 children)

343 is in Redmond. Seattle has been a hotspot, Microsoft has basically been working from home so I imagine 343 have been too. There's no way that doesn't fuck with schedules.

[–]Kittyrules808 228 points229 points  (13 children)

Comapnies around seattle were literally the first I heard of to go home in the country

[–]UnknownColorHat 168 points169 points  (4 children)

Yep. Techworker in Seattle. We've been all WFH since since around 3/3, with no end in sight.

[–]chaosllama 5 points6 points  (2 children)

same. haven't gone anywhere outside my apartment in 6 months.

[–]ExtraFriendlyFire 59 points60 points  (2 children)

Yup Bungie went full remote right away as well.

[–]Mastershroom 27 points28 points  (0 children)

And after that they also delayed the upcoming major Destiny 2 expansion from September to November.

[–]KarateKid917 20 points21 points  (0 children)

They were one of the first actually. Once Seattle had more than like 10 cases, they went WFH, which is understandable for a 500+ person studio. Other companies followed suit shortly after.

[–]Cheerio1234 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Yup I live in the area and I have been permanent WFH since late Feb.

[–]GarbageTimeline 50 points51 points  (0 children)

The pandemic in the U.S started in Kirkland, WA which is right next to Redmond. I live there and big companies were doing "stay at home working" as early as mid Feb in Seattle and Kirkland. So absolutely.

[–]canad1anbacon 78 points79 points  (7 children)

The game is pretty clearly having serious development problems

And if they are actually targeting 60 fps on the original xbox one I can see why

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (6 children)

Have they said they really going for 60 FPS on the original Xbox one? I can buy them going for that on Xbox one x in 1080 and 4K for series x, but on the original? That doesn’t seem like something even worth attempting unless they plan on a 480p version.

[–]ScubaSteve1219 153 points154 points  (0 children)

it’s 200% both. to believe otherwise is being intentionally naive.

[–]grog23 439 points440 points  (77 children)

I’m shocked they did a close up of that Brute for like two minutes. That was a horrible idea

[–]unfitfuzzball 282 points283 points  (47 children)

It just seemed so tone deaf. I think the game looks fun and really tight, but watching that trailer a month after TLoU cutscenes was so jarring. Did MSFT run out of money for Halo? Invest in some motion capture guys!

[–]grog23 225 points226 points  (44 children)

And in my opinion the monologue kind of sucked and this Brute doesn’t seem like much of a compelling antagonist

[–]unfitfuzzball 98 points99 points  (32 children)

I don't necessarily need well written villains in Halo, just beefcakes that are fun to shoot. BUT I do want it to look graphically stunning...and that wasn't it.

[–][deleted] 132 points133 points  (23 children)

I mean shit at-least write some decent monologues... The brutes monologue was power rangers level-writing... not good

[–]Sputniki 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Power Rangers writing...that's the perfect description.

[–]PugeHeniss 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Not gonna lie I couldn't even understand him and I thought it was bad

[–]Jaerba 37 points38 points  (18 children)

But what it lacked in quality, it made up for in length.

Seriously though, I don't think people have that high expectations from the writing, but at least don't let the writing drag on like that. SC2: LotV suffers from this tremendously.

[–]lordbeef 109 points110 points  (4 children)

Yeah with how important this is for the launch of the console, it's definitely busted enough that it needs a delay. Unfortunate.

[–]DetectiveAmes 74 points75 points  (2 children)

I think it’s probably in a bad spot right now because they didn’t even tell us what quarter to expect it in. Just 2021 the full year.

[–]BurkusCat 16 points17 points  (1 child)

If they are going to delay it then it might as well be a decent delay. No matter the size of the delay its went from an Xbox system seller to not a launch title any more. Why only delay it a couple of months, for example (I think these kinds of delays are stupid because there is a high likelihood of further delays being required)?

[–]Ultimafatum 72 points73 points  (11 children)

The state that we saw? Infinite didn't look impressive to a lot of people, and that's bad for what's supposed to be Microsoft's flagship franchise.

[–]536756 61 points62 points  (8 children)

I think theres more to it. I'm getting Anthem vibes.

Might sound extreme, but theres a lot of red flags. The original reveal was supposed to be target visuals, now thats 100% unfeasible CG looking back on it. All gameplay we've seen is from one tiny section of the map, even the 1 min gameplay trailer (watch closely, its all the same area, just played backwards). Also they reused the cutscenes from the original reveal in the newer gameplay reveal.... why? Why not show off new cutscenes for a flash back sequence...?

This is just all kind of bad vibes of a game in development hell imo.

[–][deleted] 292 points293 points  (31 children)

Cyberpunk was delayed too and it's been in development for a similar time. The biggest shocker is the fact that this was the big Xbox game. I think COVID fucked up a ton of dev studios. I wonder how buggy some games we'll see this fall will be.

But as a huge Halo fan, I have to say I'm relieved either way.

[–][deleted] 58 points59 points  (4 children)

Yea Phil was hinting that some software might get pushed back in like April when he was reassuring that hardware looked like it was on schedule, and there's been more talk about difficulty finishing halo from home from unofficial sources too.

I'm glad they're pushing it if they feel the need to. It's absolutely the right thing to do. I think seeing what Sony is likely to have for Playstation this year probably made the decision a little easier.

[–]SetYourGoals 26 points27 points  (3 children)

The complication is how entangled this particular piece of software is with the launch of the new hardware. Playstation doesn't have a solitary franchise that is so inexorably tied to this one piece of hardware. Launching without a new Halo to draw people in might prove to be a big misstep that could cost them the whole generation, like focusing on non-gaming media did with the current gen.

It's good for those of us who want the game to be as good as possible. But from a business standpoint, I don't know if it is the right move.

It's possible they're getting more and more indications that this new generation will be transitioned to more gradually than past ones. It's certainly less of a leap forward. If that is the case, maybe it makes sense to make Infinite the best experience possible and then use it to drive a second wave of sales.

[–]zmose 104 points105 points  (10 children)

it’s been in development for a similar time

CP2077 was first announced in 2012, before Halo 4 came out.

[–][deleted] 137 points138 points  (8 children)

Yes, but it entered full development after blood and wine was released.

[–]tr3v1n 60 points61 points  (39 children)

Anything other than great is probably worth a delay for them.

[–]Wiltonia 68 points69 points  (38 children)

That wasn’t true with MCC... maybe they learned their lesson though?

[–]moffattron9000 107 points108 points  (72 children)

Honestly, this feels like the last domino to fall before they announce a delay to the console.

[–]hitalec 3709 points3710 points  (490 children)

I think it's fair to say that this is a pretty big deal.

If you were tired of hearing people bicker over their preferred console buckle up. In the immortal words of Dante from the Devil May Cry series "Things are about to get really messy."

[–]Kidney05 1382 points1383 points  (293 children)

There was a lot of people going for Xbox because of Halo this fall. Those people might hold off now, which could cause a change of a slower launch for the console and poorer numbers going forward, or those people might jump ship entirely for PS5 for its exclusives.

[–]dizorkmage 307 points308 points  (28 children)

those people might jump ship entirely for PS5 for its exclusives.

I think there will be a high amount of "Oh... Well i'll get the PS5 now and the Series X next year when Halo is out." and then an even higher amount of "Well my computer can run it, i'll just try it on Gamepass, no reason to get a new console so soon."

This is gona have a negative impact.

[–]ScornMuffins 107 points108 points  (20 children)

Both of those options appear to be part of Microsoft's long term strategy, that's why they're always mentioning how you won't need to upgrade right away if you're on Xbox One.

[–]Skibibbles 558 points559 points  (97 children)

Yup that's me. Unless something monumental comes in the next couple months I'll be holding off on buying it on release day. And this is coming from a massive Xbox fanboy.

[–]Turangaliila 241 points242 points  (80 children)

I'm in a similar boat. I have all consoles but I usually like Xbox the best, and the only real reason for me to get the Series X was to have Halo look better.

I decided a month or so ago that since most of Xbox's big first party games look pretty far out it'd be better for me to get a PS5 at launch for the exclusives and just play Halo and anything else on my on One X until they phase it out.

Now that Halo is delayed out of this year too it's hard to find any real reason to get a Series X this fall. Maybe if you're on a One S and are absolutely against getting a PlayStation then it'd be worth the upgrade, but if you're platform agnostic it's pretty hard to make a case for it.

[–]johnnylawrwb 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Things are about to get dicey!

[–]codeswinwars 1732 points1733 points  (183 children)

Holy shit this is massive. Unless there's something unannounced this is the XSX launch game. They must have thought the launch would be disastrous to delay it.

[–]tiger66261 1099 points1100 points  (160 children)

It's better to launch with little exclusive offerings (PS4 did it just fine) than to get all the bad press about how Xbox launched with a broken or incomplete Halo game. Microsoft made the right choice. I don't think anyone who was already going to buy Xbox for Halo will change their minds because of this delay.

[–]Awkward_Silence- 459 points460 points  (79 children)

Yeah PS4 didn't get a particularly ground breaking game until Bloodbourne in early 2015, Uncharted and Ratchet in 2016 and still ran away with that generation (in terms of units pushed)

[–]Lordanonimmo09 275 points276 points  (28 children)

Infamous second son also launched on 2014,it wasn't a ground breaking game but it was a big title,but you are right the ps4 only really started with exclusives in 2016.

[–]fizzlefist 114 points115 points  (2 children)

It had the best of the controller gimmicks, with the spray tagging mini game.

[–]Hydro-Blunder 50 points51 points  (5 children)

Infamous was a fun launch title. I think they also had a killzone launch with ps4?

[–]Lordanonimmo09 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Yes,killzone shadowfall alongside knack it was ps4 launch titles.

[–]YeahSureAlrightYNot 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Yep. I bought the PS4 cause of Second Son.

Really fun game.

[–]whatgivesup 72 points73 points  (2 children)

People always forget that the PS3 had a lot of momentum in its later years because of all the great exclusives that were releasing for it and that momentum continued to the PS4.

TLOU, despite being a remaster sold a million copies in a day in 2014. That moved a lot of PS4s.

[–]theivoryserf[🍰] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Also, Microsoft had just totally dropped the ball. All Sony had to do was be broadly competent. MS are now coming from behind

[–]Accomplished_Hat_576 14 points15 points  (0 children)

They didn't just drop the ball. They yeeted it into the distance while insulting potential customers.

I went into that e3 show convinced I was gonna buy an Xbox this gen.

I came out wondering if I was gonna buy any because I couldn't support those shady ass business practices, and a few days later Sony was putting out ads just fucking destroying Microsoft for being out of touch. So I bought a PS4.

Never before have I gone from all in, to "well I'm never buying that" from the companies OWN ADS before.

[–]slickyslickslick 63 points64 points  (13 children)

The PS4 had a lead early-on as well. I remember it very clearly in 2013.

People had the expectation that the Xbox One was not going to be gaming-focused and try to instead be a multimedia center with sports packages and streaming (which was what both consoles ended up trying to do to some degree) and Sony capitalized that with their "For the Gamers" marketing push.

It worked very well and the PS4 was clearly the more popular console at launch and the Xbox never caught up.

I think it will be more of the same this generation. Playstation proved that they have so many high-quality exclusives or timed exclusives just in 2020 alone. And Halo hasn't been that popular for a decade.

Xbox GamePass is great though and I'm thinking that's what Microsoft is pushing their platform towards rather than a traditional console scene. I can see PS dominating consoles, Xbox dominating cloud gaming, and Nintendo going handheld-only.

[–]Eluem 65 points66 points  (19 children)

I literally only bought a ps4 for Bloodborne. I only used it for a few other games after that lol

[–]Red_Cascade 40 points41 points  (9 children)

Yeah, Halo is THE Xbox game, something massive will likely have to replace it.

[–]mouchete 965 points966 points  (196 children)

This is really shocking. This game has been 5 years in development and it must be a few years when it was decided that it would be their marquee launch title for the new console. It must have been a very hard decision to delay this. I wonder if from microsoft/343 perspective everything was fine an the negative reaction to the demo caused this

[–]abumwithastick 289 points290 points  (41 children)

Jason Schreier is working on a piece about 343i, supposedly Halo Infinite is in development hell that had multiple different overhauls of the game.

judging how they changed creative leads god knows how many times and with how halo 5 ended up and now this demo....i believe it

[–][deleted] 142 points143 points  (11 children)

Jason Schreier is working on a piece about 343i

People keep saying this, but isn't it just based on a tweet where he said he was curious about 343?

[–]G4M3R_117 50 points51 points  (7 children)

From memory he explicitly said he doesn't often make comments whilst working on a story (implying he's working on a story for 343/microsoft).

[–][deleted] 63 points64 points  (12 children)

Yep and reading the glassdoor reviews on 343 is telling as even the positive reviews cite huge issues with Tech Debt and other fundamental problems with their studio.

[–]IronMarauder 23 points24 points  (7 children)

Tech Debt?

[–]TasteTheRonbow 93 points94 points  (6 children)

It's a development term used to describe the shoddy code and infrastructure you build up overtime as you prioritize new features over fixing bugs or rewriting something that needs it. The idea is you can have some tech debt, like real debt, and be okay, because sometimes you need to get a product out the door. But if you never pay it off, it will eventually bite you.

[–]IronMarauder 49 points50 points  (5 children)

Ahh, so like Riots infamous spaghetti code "Everything is a minion"

[–]Aceanuu 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Yep, precisely. And lotta things really are minions in league, hah.

[–]RightHyah 467 points468 points  (145 children)

343 is a terribly run studio. H4 was meh, people hated 5, and MCC was a disaster. Are we surprised the development of Infinite is not going as planned.

Edit: mainly speaking about the games launching. It seems like 343s strategy is to barely push a half baked game out the door then fix all the issues year(s) after launch when the player base is non existent. If infinite launches half assed the player base WILL die and the whole "10 years" of content plan won't happen because it won't make sense financially if no one is playing the game.

[–]BlackDeath3 272 points273 points  (91 children)

H5 multiplayer was a lot of fun.

[–]TooDrunkToTalk 525 points526 points  (22 children)

Huh.... that's crazy. This is the center piece of MS' new Xbox launch this year, no way in hell would I have guessed that they'd delay this.

[–]Smallgenie549 226 points227 points  (19 children)

This is massive. I'll probably still be engrossed in Cyberpunk, Watch Dogs, and Valhalla, but I imagine this is a huge blow for Xbox launch sales.

[–]moffattron9000 73 points74 points  (14 children)

While I was excited to buy a console at launch for the first time, I think that I'm ok holding off a year for a price cut and the games intended for launch to actually be done.

[–]midnight_rebirth 91 points92 points  (9 children)

Prices will not drop in the first year. They’re already taking heavy losses on the components in an attempt to undercut one another.

[–]tpieman2029 543 points544 points  (76 children)

They have to get it perfect and they know it. I think they have gameplay and story done well but if they launched and its graphically underwhelming or the multi-player has bugs than they're gonna see a lot of 8/10s and people not caring enough to use it as an excuse to buy a Series X. It has to be 10/10 blow your mind away and they know it.

[–][deleted] 738 points739 points  (65 children)

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: 343 has yet to launch a game that's complete on release date.

  • Halo 4 had no file browser and Spartan Ops was released over the period of the first 6 months (or year? I don't fully remember). Multiplayer also lacked commonplace Halo features, such as the red X that marks where you died to your team mates. They also scrapped modes like Firefight that Bungie had made standard modes in their prior two releases (ODST and Reach), and classic modes like Oddball weren't added until well over a year later. Theater was included, but only worked in Multiplayer. They scrapped usage in Campaign.

  • Halo: MCC launched with multiplayer that was essentially unplayable until 6 months in, and even then it was rocky until 4 years later when, in 2018, they finally went back to fix the game. Halo 3 ODST came to the collection 6 months later as an apology, but only had Campaign (no Firefight like ODST launched with originally)

  • Halo 5 launched with only 3 Arena modes and Warzone. Forge didn't come out until a month or two later, and Theater mode was broken (From my own experience, Theater will still randomly jump to a random player when watching films after a minute or so, although it's better than it was at launch, but still also only worked in Warzone or MP, not in Campaign). There was no Big Team Battle, debatably the most iconic Halo mode, which meant no vehicles were featured in matchmaking for a few months after launch. They also didn't add iconic weapons like the Gravity Hammer for months, which meant classic game modes like Grifball were not able to be played until the Grav Hammer released the next spring. They eventually added their own variation of Firefight, but it's only in Matchmaking and 5 waves. They added some impressive Forge-made BTB maps, but still no developer made BTB maps, which meant spawns can get pretty awful on user-made maps.

In comparison:

  • Halo Reach launched with Slayer, Oddball, King of the Hill, Territories, Stockpile, Capture the Flag, Headhunter, and Juggernaut for Arena, had fully featured Big Team Battle maps, full Firefight mode with insane customization down to the enemies that spawned per round, a new and improved Forge with levels as impressively huge as Forge World, Theater mode (which worked in Campaign, MP, Firefight, and Forge), as well as a File Browser and fileshare system which allowed users to store up to 1,000 custom items. For reference, Master Chief Collection (with Reach, H2A, H3, and H4 allowing custom content) allows only 50 items still.

They need to launch a complete game. Halo 5 eventually got patched to be pretty solid, but the player base left long before. Bungie set the bar really high, and despite their rocky code, they created great experiences with lots of ways to play. I'm a little shocked that a 5 year time span to develop this game has lead to a delay, but 343 and MS both know this is becoming Halo's last chance to get big outside of the classic games.

EDITED to fix a mishap I wrote in on MCC instead of Halo 4

[–]TribbleTrouble1979 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Oh but you know what Halo 4 did launch with?

Killcams!

Oh but wait, they didn't work most of the time. It was just confusing to watch so many killcams shooting at the air and then you died without taking any direct hits from their point of view.

In BTB the disconnect between what happened and what the killcam thinks happened was even more pronounced. Infact BTB killcams were so consistently bad that they quickly turned them off for that mode.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (8 children)

Spartan Ops was definitely intended to be additional, 'episodic' content from the jump, though. Not that that invalidates your broader point.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It was, but with them scrapping Firefight, the only PVE content was campaign at that point. It just was less content up front, the stuff that keeps that initial playerbase around longer. Most people won't wait for 6 months to play the finished game if it's not full featured on launch. But yeah, they planned it to be Episodic.

[–]Very_legitimate 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Imo 343 is yet to do an all around great job with a halo game. Their overall best work was probably the anniversary edition of Halo 1, which is pretty unfortunate

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Halo 2 Anniversary for campaign was the best done. The CEA port was actually pretty bad. On top of using the old PC port that Gearbox broke, the new graphics they made don't remotely match up to a lot of the level geometry, and it just looks really funky. I killed myself so much early on by shooting a rocket through a gap just to realize in original graphics, there's a tree branch there that just went ignored.

[–]MrSirjohny 31 points32 points  (7 children)

My thoughts. I dont usually care about graphics but here I think they need to do because they need to impress people from every part of the game. It needs to be a 10/10

[–]MaliciousHippie 24 points25 points  (6 children)

They still haven't added a server browser to MCC.... I'm not holding my breath.

[–]Dolomitex 450 points451 points  (27 children)

The demo felt...unfinished...for a game that was supposed to launch around November.

I'd rather they take more time and release the best possible game they can release. Otherwise, this would just be MCC 2.0.

[–]unfitfuzzball 229 points230 points  (15 children)

I keep saying, it was a bad sign that we had NOT seen gameplay up until that demo. They had to show SOMETHING or else the conversation would be, "Halo comes in a few months and we haven't seen a second of gameplay". They HAD to show something, and what they showed was not good.

[–]Zarathustra124 147 points148 points  (12 children)

And if that's the part they chose to demo, just imagine how bad the rest is.

[–]Reddilutionary 157 points158 points  (6 children)

Hooooly shit. I wonder if this is a direct result of Halo Infinite's reception a few weeks ago or if it just isn't in good shape right now.

Crazy man

[–]grizzlybair2 69 points70 points  (4 children)

I'm sure that played into it - has too. Anyone who is working remotely right now also understands that everything is slower than in office for various reasons. Their waypoint update after the event literally said the multiplayer is not where they want it to be and we might not get a flight at all and everyone just kind of ignored it since the game looked meh at best during the demo.

[–]potmofthebottom 674 points675 points  (130 children)

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1293261544982274049

jason pretty much says what we all knew already. the game is in development hell. reports of the game changing their creative director mid development should have been a big hint

[–]Coolman_Rosso 320 points321 points  (56 children)

I've always wondered if 343 had some big plan for Halo 6, only for Halo 5's largely panned story to force them to scrap everything and opt for the "spiritual reboot" angle they've been talking about. Then the new creative director doesn't like how it's shaping up and leaves and it's all rudderless.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for the spiritual reboot thing after not liking Halo 5's campaign but now it sounds like they actually don't know what to do with it and all the jokes about 343 are some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Trend-chasing multiplayer is one thing, but campaign troubles are another.

[–][deleted] 128 points129 points  (13 children)

That is literally what happened. They explained in an interview how they scrapped everything after Halo 5 was released.

[–]TheBlandGatsby 90 points91 points  (11 children)

I dislike and like this so much at the same time. Like I get WHY they did it, but I feel like Halo isn't a series where you just do a 180 in terms of story and have it be cohesive. Im worried it's going to be so jarring jumping into Infinite's story line. Is 5's story not going to be prominent in this? You cant just forget about Cortana turning evil and the Guardians and all of that shit. I can easily forget about Osiris team and what not, but those events are so cataclysmic and huge for the Halo universe (like it or not) and I just hope it's not sidelined.

I'm just insanely intrigued on how the story is going to go. Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

[–]arod13134 58 points59 points  (6 children)

343 lost all direction with their story a while ago. They already did this scrapping with Halo 4s story, as every character and story line coming from Halo 4 and spartan ops were killed off and finished in books and comics because they had criticism of the story when 4 released.

To add my speculation, I’m pretty sure they stated that questions about Halo 5s story line will be answered when you play the game. I think Cortana’s Created will be a part of the story but won’t be the main enemy, at least for the first couple of acts in the game.

[–]0bitoUchiha 26 points27 points  (0 children)

What is so fucked up for me is the timing of it all. The forerunner trilogy gave 343 SO much to work with. It could have been amazing, but they shoehorned cortana in as the main antagonist. The forerunner saga was so good, and when I finished it I was so ready for halo 4... and well, the rest is history

[–]Turangaliila 137 points138 points  (11 children)

They definitely scrapped whatever plan they had. This trilogy is called The Forerunner Saga Reclaimer Saga but now the main enemy for the final installment is supposedly the Banished?

Either Infinite switches back to Cortana/the Guardians and some other forerunner big bad in the latter half or they just totally scrapped whatever it was going to be.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (1 child)

It’s called the reclaimer saga

[–]Turangaliila 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Ah, you're right! My bad, I was thinking of the Forerunner Saga of books.

I guess the Reclaimer Saga could make a little more sense depending on how they tie it up with Infinite, but I still feel like 5 muddled things up too much for any end to feel satisfying.

[–][deleted] 45 points46 points  (2 children)

They've said the Cortana plot won't just be dropped and the novel they're releasing in the lead-up is Cortana centric. I'd bet they try to do them like the Flood in Halo 1, as a mid-game escalation. Would be very in line with their 'spiritual reboot' talk.

I think people forget that, in every game, Covenant enemies are always THE main opposing force, with Flood and Protheans as the supplementary foe. Halo 5 featured the death of Jul and the Arbiter launching the final attack on the Covenant, so they need to introduce a new faction for the classic enemies.

[–]Scav3nger 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Prometheans. Protheans were in Mass Effect.

I also hope that book isn't going to be a thing we need to read in order to understand the story in Infinite. I had so many questions from friends about 4's story because I'd read the books in the lead up.

[–]Lordanonimmo09 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Well the rumors is that they had a plan for a new halo trilogy,but because of the backslash of halo 4 they changed things,and after the backslash of halo 5 they changed again.

We don't know if it's true tough.

[–]unfitfuzzball 59 points60 points  (18 children)

I wonder why MSFT doesn't just pull it's most talented people from every studio, and make 343 the "naughty dog" of their 1st party. It's HALO! This game is more important to it's console than other software/hardware relationship in the industry...make it work Phil!

[–]Coolman_Rosso 111 points112 points  (13 children)

The problem here is that 343 is a relic of Microsoft's old studio structure where most studios just churn out a single IP (T10 does Forza, Coalition does Gears, 343 does Halo, Lionhead did Fable, Ensemble did Age of Empires). Though i suppose it's still a thing even today with Undead Labs seemingly only putting out State of Decay.

However what do you do when your golden goose franchise goes stale? Sony lets their studios move on and create new IP, while Microsoft's were largely saddled with having to reinvent their existing property. This is easier for something like Forza which uses a pretty evergreen concept, but then you have stuff like Gears 5 which is fun but is mostly recycling the original story.

Halo still has a lot of stories left to tell, but 343 doesn't seem capable of telling them.

[–]unfitfuzzball 68 points69 points  (4 children)

Sony took a cue from the movie industry with their "one for us, one for you" approach. I don't know what deals they have offered developers but it certainly seems like if you make the game they want you to make, and it does reasonably well, the next one is totally your creative vision. Guerrilla seems to have gotten this deal w/ shadow fall into horizon, and Naughty Dog with Uncharted 4 into TLoU2.

[–]karatemanchan37 23 points24 points  (2 children)

The thing is that Sony trusts their studios with new creating new IPs and letting them experiment. I doubt Xbox would've let Naughty Dog made The Last of Us a year before the PS4 was released (as they did again with Sucker Punch and Ghost of Tusushima 6 months before the PS5), or gave Hideo Kojima carte blanche to do whatever he wanted with Death Stranding.

The last time Microsoft let a AAA studio do a new exclusive IP for their console was Quantum Break, which was over four years ago.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (0 children)

one for us, one for you

Which is awesome, because now we will have a Ghost of Tsushima series 😎

[–]Conflict_NZ 21 points22 points  (3 children)

Another big problem is that from 2007 to 2013 Don Mattrick gutted Microsoft Game Studios and deemphasised first party, leading to the deterioration of Microsoft's internal development. Then when Phil Spencer took over he had to plead the case for Xbox's existence for 3-4 years and their budget was never increased.

It's only in 2018 when Xbox finally got a seat at the big boy table that they began investing in gaming properly again.

Microsoft is in a worse position now than they were in 2007, and they are a decade behind sony in development ability in culture. It will take some time but they are on the right path.

[–]politirob 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Yeah but that’s part of toxic American corporate culture.

There is always a a sociopathic exec that’s willing to gut out to make it look like they saved the company money and rack up some bonus pay and then leave before anyone realizes the extent of the damage that was done.

Pretty telling that Sony and Nintendo don’t have this problem, but Microsoft does. American executives by and large are greedy con artists that have no interest in developing good products.

[–]Sunkenking97 11 points12 points  (2 children)

I think they did what you’re saying in their new studio The “initiative” I believe it’s called

[–]literious 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Their game was described as AAAA (yeah, 4 As not 3) and is rumored to be the reboot of Perfect Dark. Hope it will be shown soon.

[–]Peabody77 181 points182 points  (108 children)

So what exactly is the XsX gonna launch with?

[–]midnight_rebirth 369 points370 points  (41 children)

Backwards compatibility

[–]StellarMind1010 148 points149 points  (18 children)

PS5 will have backwards compatibility for the PS4 games, which for me at least it's more than enough. Most of the games I liked from prior eras got remasters anyways.

[–]Pontus_Pilates 49 points50 points  (1 child)

The Xbox Series X may not ship with 'Halo Infinite' but it still has great launch software such as 'System Software Update V1.01'

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1293271954703765505

[–]MrPringles23 91 points92 points  (9 children)

Them repeating to themselves "the most powerful console in history" while curled up in a ball in the corner.

Being serious though? Launch titles don't mean shit. They're usually just multiplatform sports game and whatever trash EA/Ubisoft had released in the last 3-6 months.

If there is some exclusive its usually forgettable like Killzone, Knack or Ryze for example.

[–]Trimirlan 18 points19 points  (0 children)

While Infamous, Ryze, and Killzone weren't GOTY, they were still remarkable in terms of tech. They are launch titles that look good to this day, and show off what the system can do. If you're an average dude walking past a store a see an add of Ryze, you'll know your 360 is in need of an upgrade. But now, this same dude will walk past an add with big numbers flying around, and he'll just stick with XB1 for a while longer

[–]SharkOnGames 93 points94 points  (3 children)

Not sure if relevant, but MS announced just over a week ago that they would not be returning to the office until January 21st, 2021 at the earliest.

[–]JackStillAlive 285 points286 points  (52 children)

This took massive balls, but I really wonder how many more times 343i has to fail until MS realizes they are just not good

[–]VermilionAce 102 points103 points  (17 children)

Microsoft's marketing for the past few months has been a complete mess in retrospect. They didn't really have a lot to show (compared to last year e3 especially), they kept hyping up their events despite that, but what they saw as their one saving grace was Halo Infinite as their main launch title. Then that had a terrible showing, and now it's not even coming out this year.

I feel like the only viable angle they can push for marketing now is that while PS5 may have more games, Xbox at least has better deals and has Game Pass. Hopefully they can still compete adequately because the only way Sony will offer better deals is if Microsoft is a threat to their business as competition.

[–]YeahSureAlrightYNot 22 points23 points  (7 children)

The fact that they didn't port Flight Simulator to the Series X is mind boggling to me.

Flight Simulator was the first time my mouth dropped playing a game in a long time. It would be the perfect graphical showcase for this new powerful console.

But they didn't even show it on their Showcase.

FFS, they have Battletoads releasing this month and they completely skipped that on their Showcase only to release a trailer 2 days later.

[–]agent_1337 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Piggybacking off of this tweet https://twitter.com/vicious696/status/1293307036713668610

They might as well delay the game until holiday 2021 and polish/finetune this game to damn near perfection if they want this game to be even remotely relevant for a long time.

If that doesn't happen, I think its time to clean house at 343 and retire the Halo franchise.

[–]g99 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Truth is, 343 Industries will never be able to deliver a 10/10 Halo game for the ages, even if they delay it until the heat death of the universe.

[–]Credar 563 points564 points  (285 children)

Playstation frothing at the mouth now. This is not great for Xbox kicking off the next generation to have the main launch title be pushed back. I personally would push back the console too. You'll get stronger sales with the two of them together.

[–]Bag0fSwag 22 points23 points  (0 children)

idk, if the PS5 gets a 6 month head start unopposed I can see people just opting into that platform since it has positive mind share already. If the box is ready and there are some games ready, I don't see why you wouldn't just release it.

You can't 'polish' hardware like you can a game really, all that is set like a year or more in advance.

[–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (10 children)

I have to disagree, simply because Xbox seems more interested in their ecosystem than actual system sales. I agree that more Series X consoles would be sold with Halo, but I don't think they should push it back. Especially because doing so will give Sony a head start on console sales

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (4 children)

I really hope Xbox has learned that it’s possible to over market and communicate, because I feel like this pandemic has just been a flurry of Xbox press releases. They announced the Xbox series x too early hyped it up with an absurdly cheesy video last E3, have “smart delivery” and “Xbox series x optimized” plastered all over the place, no one quite sure how they are at all that special. They dredged out the whole Xbox 20/20 thing no one remembered just to cancel it for some reason. They said there’d be Xbox news every month starting in like may, and all we got was 2 showcases. The 3rd party showcase disappointed everyone after promising AC gameplay and delivering none. Then when Halo infinite disappointed fans, they scrambled and said it was “an old demo” and would be better by launch, now we know the game just wasn’t shaping up like it needed to. And after marketing this game for the past 2 years as THE reason to get an Xbox series x, so now they have to drop that baggage and pivot to something completely different. I understand the pandemic has made everything very complicated, but it feels like everyone’s zoom premium trial ran out at xbox and they’ve been communicating by carrier pigeon since then. I understand Sony is in a much better position and therefore don’t need to market nearly as much as Xbox, but the focused nature of PlayStation this year is just so much more digestible. Think about how well they managed expectations for the recent state of play; sure not everyone was talking about it, but at least people didn’t come out of it angry about being misled. Xbox feels like the freshman so desperate to impress they show up to the pregame already sans shirt and then drink so much they pass out on the way to the party.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Somewhere in all of this they STILL HAVEN'T ANNOUNCED A PRICE FOR THE CONSOLE OR ANNOUNCED THE SERIES S.

If they were that confident in the new Xbox they'd have announced the price knowing that even if the PS5 undercut it, they'd have the better console. Instead they're clearly trying to provide 'better value for money'.

[–]Jeskid14[🍰] 138 points139 points  (95 children)

Damn. Does the series x have no launch titles then, excluding game pass?

[–]ShittyFrogMeme 73 points74 points  (2 children)

Most of the launch titles were 3rd party games anyway.

[–]Trickybuz93 77 points78 points  (32 children)

There’s other third party games that are launching around the same time. Just like PS5

[–]Adamocity6464 66 points67 points  (1 child)

More like Halo Indefinite, amiright?

...I’ll show myself out.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (6 children)

5 years to make this game. 5 years to get it ready for the launch of the next Xbox and this is what we get. Incredibly hilarious mismanagement again from Microsoft.

[–]DOOM_INTENSIFIES 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I HOPE that some big heads roll on 343. To be clear, i know there is a lot of passionate, and VERY competent people over there, but this is a huge management screw up, and that's not even their first one.

They have been scoring fuck up after fuck up...Halo MCC was a half assed clusterfuck, H5 too, and now this...5 years in production, supossedly half a billion dollars and even other MS studios helping, and they still manage to be forced to delay what was supposed to be one of, if not THE the system seller title at launch.

Bravo. I never saw such fiasco.

[–]politirob 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Literally a bunch of management getting paid $180,000+ a year plus bonus to say things like, “I’ve never played a game in my life” and “It needs to look like the old Halo games for brand consistency”

[–]Xanthiel 199 points200 points  (13 children)

So MS realised that people weren’t buying the “it’s just our art style” line after an incredibly lukewarm reception to the stuff they showed recently, and decided to give more time to polish.

Great call imo: sure it’ll leave the launch lineup of the Series X looking sparse, but MS can’t afford for Halo to become a has been because they rushed a release off the back of 2 lukewarm entries.

People joke about Xbox games being Halo, Forza, Gears, but 2 of those franchises are on (mainline) entry #6 next time out, and the best as it stands are 2/3. They need one of Halo or Gears to return to their heigh next run out

[–]VitricTyro 94 points95 points  (5 children)

There was a blog post where they addressed that. They said they are keeping the art style, but they have noted and will address many other aspects of graphical fidelity, directly mentioning Digital Foundry's critique of the lighting.

[–]Blackdeath_663 51 points52 points  (0 children)

They said they are keeping the art style

yeah well of course they are. i hope people have tempered expectations of what they want out of the delay because something as intrinsic as that to the design of the game will definitely be staying.

there is a huge opportunity for MS to turn things around for the better if they can get raytracing just right. its a huge oversight not to include the main selling feature of the strongest console with their number 1 game. it will also solve the awkward lighting issues apparent from reveal in a major way

[–]Yugolothian 10 points11 points  (1 child)

They said they are keeping the art style, but they have noted and will address many other aspects of graphical fidelity, directly mentioning Digital Foundry's critique of the lighting

Most of the issues people had had nothing to do with the art style yet the defenders just thought the art style included everything.

The delay means they can have RTX at launch, at least on SX so it's definitely going to help

[–]MasterMirage 55 points56 points  (3 children)

I mean Halo 5 was released back in 2015 and I'd hardly call a 5 year (now 6) development schedule being "rushed".

[–]Bossman1086 73 points74 points  (7 children)

Wow. This kinda screws Microsoft and the Xbox Series X launch. They don't have anything else on the level of Halo in the launch window. This is really going to hurt them.

[–]datlinus 62 points63 points  (13 children)

the series X is going to be a really difficult sell now, honestly. But this is probably the best for the game itself - it looked extremely rough at the showcase

[–]your_mind_aches 32 points33 points  (3 children)

Kamala Harris dropped out of the Presidential campaign the same day Master Chief Collection released.

Kamala Harris was was announced as VP the same day Halo Infinite was delayed.

Something is up.

https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/1293296740997705729?s=19

[–]RareBk 38 points39 points  (13 children)

Legitimate question... what is the Xbox launching with?

[–]literious 55 points56 points  (17 children)

Based on what we've seen I feel like this is gonna be PS4 vs Xbox One all over again in terms of sales.

[–]TheOppositeOfDecent 57 points58 points  (30 children)

Woooow, I really wonder how/if Microsoft will adjust their plans based on this. Like, how do you even launch Series S/X this year without this game? I feel like this is the one game delay that could actually get them to delay the entire platform launch.

[–]TheNightKnight77 52 points53 points  (11 children)

They just announced that the series x will be released in November.

[–]Cactiareouroverlords 12 points13 points  (0 children)

So what is even the point of buying a series X on launch unless you’re a hardcore Xbox fanatic?

[–]megaapple 7 points8 points  (0 children)

"The game was planned to be a launch title for Series X from the start but hit a number of development hurdles (not to mention COVID-19 impact)

There were a bunch of internal teams moved onto the project to ensure it hit launch

Now delayed to deliver a more complete experience"

Daniel Ahmad on Twitter