Bitcoin Cash sub 1000$ again..

chiwalfrm · 2017-11-16T14:26:13+00:00

Nobody cares if fees and transactions are too high..That's not Bitcoin's use from a long time, and we all know it.

BTC fees did not pass $1 until March 2017. That is not a long time ago. It was perfectly usable as currency until 8 months ago. Before 2017, it was below 40 cents. Source: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html

meiuqer · 2017-11-16T14:56:27+00:00

As someone who just got into cryptocoins, these heavily argumented discussions are very interesting but oh so confusing. Everyone talks like they know best, and it makes sense, but then the next guy comes with a counter argument which also makes sense. And i know too little of it to know who's right.

Ah well, keep on reading i guess

W111n · 2017-11-16T17:01:23+00:00

I've made some very poor choices in the past five days:

I dumped BTC while it was free-falling, thinking that a correction was coming.
I didn't sell BCH when it was over $2k.
I kept my short positions on ETH open.

Compared to the upside, I've lost $15k.

All because I was bearish on BTC.

JonathanSilverblood · 2017-11-16T11:39:40+00:00

Do you remember when Marcus and Willy was buying bitcoins on MtGox without paying the sellers?

Do you remember when bitfinex and tether printed out a parabolic amount of USDT and timed the entry to crypto at every single bear sign, while still allowing the merchants to trade with themselves to walk the price up in a giant price manipulation scheme that will make MtGox look bad?

Oh wait, that's now.

fiah84 · 2017-11-16T11:13:51+00:00

Sub $1000? That's still higher than bitcoin was just one year ago, with lower fees too

Nephelophyte · 2017-11-16T20:57:39+00:00

I'm just a daytrader, so I'm not a fanatic supporter of any specific coin. But I'm always scratching my head at why you guys are so confident in BCH. Sure ok maybe it is superior to BTC but...so are tons of other coins. IOTA for example seems like the most cutting edge. So what makes BCH special other than the fact it can pull hashpower away from BTC?

bitscavenger · 2017-11-16T10:48:33+00:00

[deleted]

kimjongok · 2017-11-16T14:45:11+00:00

Well if you want an answer you dont want to hear. BCH has no unique selling point. It isnt the fastest, the most secure or the cheapest crypto. Literally the only thing it has going for itself is Bitcoin in its name. I honestly would like to know your opinion why you wouldnt switch to something with better tech? Like Ethereum. (Also i can feel the downvotes already since "omg fucking shill"). What is your legitimate reasons for staying with a technologically inferior coin with a smaller dev community and no roadmap that actually solves long term problems such as block rewards tending towards zero, which will just drive up tx fees since miners will have to be subsidized. Sure a lot of people will claim "but the price will just match it". In 2020 Bitcoin minning will already consume as much electricity as the country of Denmark. PoW is simply not sustainable... Id actually really like an answer that isnt rooted in random conspiracies if possible.

CryptoNews1 · 2017-11-16T16:07:05+00:00

Well at least posts like these are allowed on this sub unlike /r/bitcoin

ForkiusMaximus · 2017-11-16T12:51:59+00:00

Markets don't move straight up without correcting. Follow the dots: $600. $2500. $900. Is the price crashing or is it up a whopping 50% in just a couple weeks? Depends on your timescale.

Zoom out. If it did this again, we'd be at $1350, then about $2000 in the next "pump and dump," then $3000 in the next and $4500 in the next (and likely near parity with BTC). A pump and dump that results in the price being way higher than before is not a pump and dump. It is a bull move. There will always be people who FOMO'd and then panicked and got burned; that's just the everpresent volatility in Bitcoin, so it's irrelevant to the actual market trend.

kaczan3 · 2017-11-16T17:55:31+00:00

I was thinking about it. There are better coins. There are even new technologies like Proof of Stake or Tangle. Maybe we're believing in BCH too much. Maybe it got left behind because Core held it hostage too long.

amorpisseur · 2017-11-16T23:18:45+00:00

Nobody cares if fees and transactions are too high..That's not Bitcoin's use from a long time, and we all know it.

But when r/btc stopped being a sub about Bitcoin but a BCH echo chamber instead (using words the sub uses), it started denying it, and denying all facts going against pumping BCH.

I'd still like to hear some opinions and a constructive discussion.

BTC has become the store of value of crypto, you are right, and the day to day cash is gonna be handled by the fast and cheap technology that's gonna be the easiest to swap with Bitcoin, be it Lightning Network, another crypto with atomic swap, e.g. LTC, or something else.

By trying to be both (store and cash), BCH is doomed because it's good at neither: it's not a store of value, and its onchain transactions can't scale exponentially: it can't compete with faster and cheaper coins (e.g. IOTA has no fee and transactions are confirmed in seconds, it's just an example, lots of altcoins can do better than BCH in this specific domain).

dementperson · 2017-11-16T11:13:03+00:00

People said the same thing back when Bitcoin crashed from $1100 to $200, or from $30 to $2... What is the utility you got to ask yourself.

A coin with no utility will slowly wither no matter how big the market cap.

It has and is already showing on the bitcoin dominance chart:

Do you see a similarity with these charts?

Ahdroid

Windows

Google

And actually it was $11 Billion on Nov 12. That is some mighty money in any market

8BitDragon · 2017-11-16T11:33:09+00:00

BCH went up to $2500 / 0.5 btc from $600 / under 0.1 BTC in a little over a day. That kind of spike will correct, and it looks like the correction is going to take some time. Zoom out on the chart (make sure to use log scale) - the support line for the past month or so is just under $700 / 0.1 BTC now. We may well touch it before BCH settles and likely starts raising again.

There are tons of cryptocurrencies that have better features than bitcoin, but the first mover advantage is huge and gives bitcoin dominance a lot of inertia. BCH has the advantage over other contenders in that it mostly shares the ownerbase with bitcoin, making it financially easier for people to transition to using BCH from BTC. On the other hand, BCH doesn't (at least yet) fix all of bitcoins weaknesses, such as lacking full anonymity, or support for smart contracts.

If BCH is going to take over bitcoins role it's not going to happen overnight. The inertia of all the infrastructure and valuation tied into bitcoin is too great for that. Expect BCH to be a long term investment that perhaps doesn't pay off in the end, and as always, don't invest money you can't afford to lose.

BTCrob · 2017-11-16T11:07:43+00:00

You sound like you're coming to the realization that Ivebbeen arguing here for months. That is, the market does not care about things like block size and tx times. It cares primarily about one thing: market size and liquidity. This is why BTC will not be overtaken by any alt. You guys could be absolutely right with your tech argument (that big blocks are better) and still lose your shirt because that not what the market rewards.

I wrote a post about exactly this a few weeks ago. You may find it interesting

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/77twjx/why_the_debate_about_blocksize_is_irrelevent_and/

Ronoh · 2017-11-16T17:49:19+00:00

People don't understand that we are running the largest economic experiment ever done.

Back when the internet started taking off, we had Altavista, Lycos, many more and then Yahoo. They were big, and Yahoo became a giant, seemed that it had figured it all out. And Ebay.

Then Google came and sweep them away. As result we have many people that suffered because they bet on the wrong horse, and many that triumphed for the opposite. However in overall we all benefited of the innovation race.

BTC and BCH might all seem flawed, and they are. And time will put each in their place. I don't think that either of them are the google that will dominate. But that is very unpopular to say here.

In any case it is nice that you opened the discussion.

GlassMeccaNow · 2017-11-16T19:16:03+00:00

https://i.imgur.com/AHPKDz2.png

2017-11-16T15:56:44+00:00

[deleted]

plaingo · 2017-11-16T12:03:00+00:00

Nobody cares if fees and transactions are too high

AHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

Are you serious? It's incredibly frustrating. The only reason it might not be "bitcoin's use for a long time" is because fees have been too high for a long time.

I and everybody else who bought in 2011 bought while we talked of how Bitcoin would take over as a payment system. How it would be a money that could replace the dollar, and, yes, how that would give it a large valuation...

Paperbag1776 · 2017-11-16T14:54:43+00:00

I just saw the price of bitcoin - $7411.01. Last week it was around $5k. Holy shit this is climbing up fast. Too bad I'm just a student.

chainxor · 2017-11-16T12:20:30+00:00

Patience. Adoption takes time and it is going in the right direction. Also, it is absurd calling it pump and dump. If it was a pump and dump we would already be back at $300. It won't go lower than $700, unless something cataclysmic happens (of course we can never know for sure, it is crypto), but the likelihood is low given the already established support.

yeastblood · 2017-11-16T21:45:15+00:00

The flippenning turned into the humbling. Hope a lot of you learned from this 2nd PND, dont get burned by the next.

Uejji · 2017-11-16T14:33:48+00:00

BTC falls after rapid growth but still maintains net positive displacement: "Buy, buy, buy!"

BCH falls after rapid growth but still maintains net positive displacement: "Obvious pump and dump!"

I wonder if BCH really is the problem here.

seweso · 2017-11-16T12:36:23+00:00

Bitcoin Cash was handed out to everyone owning Bitcoin, and many aren't too happy with Bitcoin Cash. So yes, it will be dumped.

It's a speculative asset. It needs to evolve and get used a LOT more to reach its potential.

JustACryptoGuy · 2017-11-16T15:27:05+00:00

It usually happens in this market... Can't say if this is right or wrong but seems okay to me... But it's so interesting to see so much.. 📈👌

MrAmos123 · 2017-11-16T21:47:42+00:00

I screwed up pretty bad rn... Put my BTC into BCH.

BTC at 6000 and BCH at 1300

Now BTC is at 7850 and BCH is at 1000

I've lost loads... :(

I don't know what to do because if I convert it anywhere I'm doing what every stupid mistake in stocks are, buying high, selling low...

wilwinnfield · 2017-11-16T22:27:07+00:00

I want to thank all BCH buyers for the cheap bitcoins you gave me these past days. It's amazing that someone was willing to give me BTC for shit. Thank you! <3

SouliG · 2017-11-16T23:40:12+00:00

if I get banned in this sub for speaking the truth I don't care. BCH has potential, sure. However, will it replace bitcoin? I don't think so. Why? Without going into full detail, I'm want to keep this short, Bitcoin keeps it values when it comes to why it even came into existence and it's goals and does not sacrifice it for short term solutions to short term problems. I also believe that bitcoin will eventually need to increase it's blocksize as it will help a lot but what bitcoin cash is trying to do is already being done much better by so many other altcoins like dash and litecoin and even potentially bitcoin in the future which will make even them less valuable. So I don't see how bitcoin cash could replace bitcoin, outperform litecoin/dash/others or traditional players like paypal.

Namevo · 2017-11-16T19:32:02+00:00

Yeah, that's because BCH is a pump and dump, and a lot of you will be left with heavy bags, while your idols dump on you and make millions.

Raineko · 2017-11-16T12:05:33+00:00

If enough stores accept BCH, the demand will rise. BTC currently is a speculation tool, I assume mostly traded virtually offchain.

2017-11-17T00:35:33+00:00

cuz everyone sees BCH as a scam coin and gives it no respect. anyone investing in this coin is playing with major fire. as far as high transaction fees etc with BTC, those are gonna be solved soon enuff, and if ppl want alts with low fees and fast transactions, BCH is by far not the best alternative either.

dicentrax · 2017-11-16T13:26:24+00:00

9/10 for concern trolling

Give it time... the coin is 3 months old and consolidating $700-$1200.

It has:

Relatively small but very involved community
Supported by some of the biggest BTC miners
Decentralized development
Well known BTC devs (from before core) openly supporting BCH
Some high profile early BTC adopters openly supporting BCH
Possible support from "segwit2x" companies in the near future.

BCH is gaining ground in areas BTC lost long ago:

gambling
remittances
commerce
Hell, even gimmicks like u/tippr are back

Most importantly:

No scaling issues on the short - mid term, BCH can scale up to 32MB blocks.

BTC scaling depends 100% on off-chain lighting networks and side-chains, both are still vaporware and at least ~18 months away. The other core "product" Segwit has stalled at ~10% adoption, and even with full 100% adoption it will never reach more than ~2mb scaling.

So why is bitcoin going up?

Easy, everybody is buying it for the sole purpose of selling it to the greater fool. At least that is what I'm doing, I hope BTC will go to 30k so I can dump my profits on the newbs. I leave my bitcoins on the exchange, I don't even bother using the network anymore. That's NOT a healthy sign! I'll take my chances with BCH, sure it could go to $0 but it could also go to $10k just as easily.

Morexry · 2017-11-16T13:43:45+00:00

The reason why the btc has been rising is purely the communication which has come up with last ATH. People got to know the btc more and more, and they dont look any futher than the tip of their noses and look for possible better coins.

the fact is that they use it as a way of storing their money and gaining more profits than a simple bank interrest. The more non-crypto knowing people join in the higher the btc price will go even though the BCC is better technological wise.

y-c-c · 2017-11-16T19:30:09+00:00

Nobody cares if fees and transactions are too high..That's not Bitcoin's use from a long time, and we all know it.

I was with you until this. The high fees is literally the problem facing Bitcoin now. People don't use Bitcoin for coffee now because they literally can't, not due to lack of desire. Even for online shopping or donations, I hesitate to pay in BTCs these days since so much of the money goes to fees instead of the recipient. This leads to a feedback loop with merchants dropping out, etc.

People are going to find a solution either way, either with BCH, or other cryptocurrency, or maybe even just go back with good old ACH/credit cards. Solutions solve problems for people, not the other way round with people fitting themselves for a solution.

What I do know though is if Bitcoin is not useful, they aren't just going to use it for settlement. They are just going to not use it at all.

AgentOrange256 · 2017-11-16T20:08:06+00:00

Literally only two weeks ago it was worth a few hundred. get over it.

2017-11-16T20:57:23+00:00

My long term investment thesis is as follows:

bitcoin/cryptocurrencies will never go away. By their nature, even if there's a UN resolution banning the exchange of crypto for fiat, it will go underground, barter, etc. If such a thing happened, price would probably be depressed for a long time, but it's not going away, just like the internet's not going away.
I want to promote this view a bit more, to get it out there and see what people in the community think about it, but here it is: I think bitcoin/cryptos have a really interesting use case for microtransactions. Say you want to charge $0.000001 for something like a newspaper article, or a song. Right now you kinda can't, not with Visa/Paypal/etc. But this is easy to do with cryptocurrencies that have low fees (yes, that's a swipe at BTC). If crypto's can scale, and if/when someone finds a cool high-volume use case for microtransactions, then we will see real demand to cryptos and the price will start making sense.

As relates to BTC vs. BCH.... I've already swiped BTC. The high fees are ridiculous... Lightning Network is cool, but after reading many posts on reddit/medium/twitter from various core devs, I am concerned that they've adopted an extremist view when it comes to decentralization and are not focused on scaling in a practical way. For BCH, fees are low, developers (i.e. deadalnix) seem reasonable, but not a lot of activity going on in terms of scaling beyond blocksize increase, so there's risk with BCH that not enough manpower/resources/innovation will materialize to scale it before some top 30 coin gets everyone's attention and usurps both BTC/BCH.

Conclusion: BTC/BCH have brand recognition that other coins do not, which is not to be underestimated, but do have non-trivial issues without clear solutions. Other coins are interesting. So invest a good bit into BTC/BCH and throw a little bit at the alt-coins to hedge your bets. Re-evaluate as necessary.

Not responsible for any losses you incur by listening to me.

megadethZ · 2017-11-16T21:09:32+00:00

Surprisingly its holding its own inspite of:

Coinbase opening up withdrawals in Jan
Bitmex unloading
GBTC unloading
<insert-exchange-or-hater> unloading

greedo · 2017-11-16T22:49:14+00:00

Most likely scenario is that BTC and ETH moon and everything else rises, then diminishes. ETH will be solving the problems that BCH hopes to. BTC will be a inert store of value like gold.

todu · 2017-11-17T01:04:54+00:00

Thank you for sharing your concerns dear concern troll. I disagree with all of them. You're just a small blocker pretending to be "a concerned big blocker" and the voting bots in this post are very obvious. Most heavily up voted small blocker comments in this post are made by Reddit accounts that have no history at all in my RES extension which indicates that they are bought accounts.

BitcoinMD · 2017-11-17T02:44:38+00:00

Here's a little secret ... I own BTC and BCH in exactly equal amounts (in terms of coins, not dollars). No matter which one loses, I win.

keihardhet · 2017-11-16T21:46:40+00:00

I don't see much use for BCH in the long run, unless they can get rid of the scammers at the top, rebrand and try to incorporate useful things like lightning and anonymity. But hey, why not just the litecoin project then? This whole project was a clown show, I ran a node at first in the very beginning, and stopped once the PR-tactics came into play. Yes, ... high fees in BTC are a problem. But BCH doesn't solve that with something that's sustainable ... and on top of that the devs behind it didn't prove themselves. I'm out. Dropped my BCH after the fork in august, bought in at 270$ again then out at 1560$ - thanks for the free meal Roger.

Ce_ne · 2017-11-16T23:13:15+00:00

If you guys are still not clear, this pump was done in purpose so Jihan and his friends can dump the BCH at a highest price as possible since they were sitting on really huge chunk of them mining at a loss over the last few months. That was it. Next time learn Not to Trust, but Verify.

Orrs-Law · 2017-11-16T13:59:04+00:00

Buy at $900-850 after that we'll land some where around 2800.

2017-11-16T17:36:56+00:00

What did you expect after such a blatant manipulation-pump?

jetrucci · 2017-11-16T13:09:49+00:00

Bu bu bu tha flipppenninnggg?!

drzood · 2017-11-16T17:41:08+00:00

Agreed and well put.

I don't really think BCH solves anything that has not been solved already. BTC is a store of value. It's creaky but fine for what it is. And it is the one coin everyone knows about. There are plenty of other options that do the fast and cheap transactions better and are already established. Litecoin is the obvious one. The way this has played is not good for future Crypto uptake and image in general.

5boros · 2017-11-16T21:30:04+00:00

I'll probably get shit for saying this but here goes...

BCH has huge practical advantages over BTC, and if this was 2015 it would have already overtaken the rival chain. Alas, we're in 2017 now and there are well established cryptocurrencies that take most of the shine out of those advantages over BTC. The maximalist's secret altcoin envy that made them decide to throw away BTC's original vision for a segwit/lightning future will never match the technical performance of other altcoins.

Don't forget, BCH is also competing ETH, which has more infrastructure/exchanges in place, and also costs much less to do even faster transactions than BCH. IOTA also just left it's alpha, for it's beta phase and should become useful way before BCH can overtake BTC's market cap.

kickshark1 · 2017-11-16T22:21:00+00:00

The past weekend pump and dump pissed a lot of people off, whether they are core supporters or not.

skandale · 2017-11-16T13:42:44+00:00

You make some good points and i'm not going to argue with you. The fact of a matter is BCH is for many, including my self a scheme made by select individuals. I am not talking about the Bch it self, I am talking about the Segwit2x > BCH pump and dump. This is in my and many other's opinion a elaborate scheme. I somehow firmly believes that Roger Ver is involved with this scheme.

Facts: Bch has lower transaction fees Bch is not as decentralized as Bitcoin Bch tx fees will increase over time because of 1. Increased user load and 2. Miners who spam pointless of transactions. I think we can all agree that Bitcoin has this recent week faced it's most threatening attack since it was launched. The fact that Bitcoin managed to survive such a threat boad's indeed well for Bitcoin, both in the short and in the long term. What is damaged and heals will come back even stronger and now that people have seen with their own eyes how resilient Bitcoin is, it will without a doubt in my opinion cause a stronger confidence in Bitcoin. Which is exactly what we are seeing. People are realizing Bitcoin's future is way more promising than Bch. This to me looks like people are jumping in the Bitcoin train.

Even though Bch is at a alltime low since the Bump & dump. It may very well be part of a end-game scheme yet and I do think it's gonna bounce up a little bit, but not as high as it has been. My prediction is 1200 by the end of week and then people will probably start dumping it for good which means the prices will dip back to sub 600 tresh hold.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency for longterm financial gain just like Gold for fiat. Bitcoin Cash will in my opinion never get more ecconomical capital than Bitcoin but I do believe people will continue to use it.

hbcryptor · 2017-11-16T16:30:57+00:00

BCH will never overtake BTC

lnform · 2017-11-16T11:14:16+00:00

Way to much focus on price. That's r/bitcoin things. BCH wont take over the world in a month. Btw fresh: https://i.imgur.com/vxvBYIW.gif

DetrART · 2017-11-16T13:47:55+00:00

What changed about BCH fundamentally that justified it going from $600 to $2800? Nothing, it was a pump. Its fair price is still somewhere around $600.

coinfeller · 2017-11-16T13:16:36+00:00

Buy low and be happy :)

but_without_words · 2017-11-16T14:09:10+00:00

But BTC's close to ATH again..Sure, I agree with whoever calls it a get-rich-quick scheme, it has absolutely no potential,

why do you think BTC is a get-rich-quick scheme, assuming you don't believe this about all cryptos?

Nobody cares if fees and transactions are too high..That's not Bitcoin's use from a long time, and we all know it.

so you see no advantage to uncapped block sizes, i.e. the only thing bch does differently? why are you investing in bch at all then?

btc

MODERATORS

Welcome to Reddit,

Want to add to the discussion?