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[–]Salmakki 4442 points4443 points  (491 children)

Record profits paired with nothing but terrible reports from AB.

Good on them for this collective action I hope it works

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 3316 points3317 points  (464 children)

This industry is being gutted, just like predicted 10 plus years ago. The bar has dropped so low, it’s no wonder there is a general state of anger in gaming communities. The consumers are being ripped off while the guys making the games are exploited/tossed out after the money is made.

I despise what the industry has become. Yes, indie games exist but we all know that the larger picture isn’t pretty.

Flashbacks to the record profits of Black Ops 3 then laying off 300 (?) employees. Industry is fucked. This isn’t just an Activision thing, either.

For anyone going to respond, I’m painting a picture of exploitation of both worker and customer. I will no longer be responding to those who are using isolated examples in an attempt to portray the current landscape as normal across the eras.

[–]Wheresthesass 1346 points1347 points  (175 children)

Flashbacks to the record profits of Black Ops 3 then laying off 300 (?) employees.

Or the time Zampella and West were fired from Infinity Ward because Activision didn’t want to pay the studio the royalties for the success of Modern Warfare 2. To the point that Activision instituted a spying campaign on the studio to dig up dirt, subjected staff to hours-long interrogations, and had security block all entrances and exits.

[–]Bayonethics 505 points506 points  (41 children)

If i remember correctly, the royalties they were owed were in the 8 figures or something like that, so I guess they thought it'd be cheaper just to fire them

[–]Codeshark 486 points487 points  (36 children)

Yeah, wage theft (or bonus theft) should be at a minimum of 5 times the amount owed. If a company can't pay it, put them into bankruptcy and liquidate it with the employees paid first.

[–]Aquinas26 201 points202 points  (30 children)

Are you insinuation the CEO shouldn't make the combined yearly wage of its companies' employees on their yearly bonus?

Obviously a commie!

[–]drcubeftw 55 points56 points  (2 children)

I can only assume Activision didn't understand what a gold mine they had been given because 8 figures is nothing considering what Infinity Ward delivered. Pocket change. Why mess with a good/great thing? That's some insane levels of greed.

[–]theth1rdchild 45 points46 points  (0 children)

They ended up having to pay it out anyway.

If anyone ever tells you that businesses always make the choice that makes the most money, understand that that is true as long as their feelings don't get in the way. There was a culture clash between IW and Activision at large, and it wasn't as much about the money (because they lost the money anyway and knew they would) as it was about removing/punishing zampella and Vince.

[–]neurosisxeno 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thats a credit to how successful their work was. CoD2-MW2 was a golden age for the series.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 102 points103 points  (131 children)

Didn’t Zampella, Vince and co. walk? I can’t remember, it’s been so long.

[–]MajorFuckingDick 339 points340 points  (80 children)

Nope. They were very much fired. I actually only remember it so well because of the song "Nicer at EA" which was humorous then and fucking comical now.

I wish I could find the recording but here is the Kotaku post https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/please-sing-us-a-modern-warfare-song-5520218/amp

[–]ragamuphin 348 points349 points  (77 children)

From what I recall, working at EA is at least corporate levels of decent despite treating consumers shittily

Meanwhile activision has harassment scandals popping up every other day

[–]Cheesesticks1977 106 points107 points  (35 children)

Yes. Which is why Respawn games exists now.

[–]ass_pineapples 71 points72 points  (34 children)

And created some of the biggest (and best) pieces of modern gaming. Titanfall 1 was honestly revolutionary, even if it wasn't very big, and laid the groundwork for a lot of modern FPS's

[–]OldBeercan 68 points69 points  (11 children)

The campaign for T|F2 is easily one of the top 10 single player FPS campaigns. Top 3 for me.

[–]Et_me_buddy_boy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The factory level where you’re traveling on a giant platform having pieces added to it over time was godley. I crushed the shit out Ash at the end with my robo fist.

[–]sam4246 21 points22 points  (9 children)

They absolutely nailed that campaign! The set pieces were great, enemy AI was good, the Titans were a lot of fun, and BT is a fantastic character as well! I just wish it had more!!!

[–]Gorrrn 25 points26 points  (8 children)

Effect and Cause was one of the sickest FPS missions ever

[–]sam4246 13 points14 points  (6 children)

What are the chances that two action games with a first person perspective would both come out with amazing levels with Time Travel mechanics.

Titanfall 2 - Effect and Cause
Dishonored 2 - The Clockwork Mansion A Crack in the Slab

Edit: Wrong D2 mission!

[–]NathanialJD 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Titanfall could've done so much better if they timed the release. IIRC, they released it right around the same time as a cod game. Maybe trying to compete with them but failed. I remember I picked up Titanfall instead of cod at the time because of some reason I don't even remember and fell in love with the series.

[–]Chaoticimpact 15 points16 points  (7 children)

It was overshadowed by the other releases that year. I think with the success of the last two and Apex, Titanfall 3 will actually be a pretty anticipated game.

[–]ass_pineapples 28 points29 points  (5 children)

AFAIK they're not working on a Titanfall 3, unfortunately. I think Apex is their main baby right now and for the foreseeable future

[–]rackedbame 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Biggest? Only Apex is of any relevant popularity. TF1 and TF2 were not very successful games.

[–]Wheresthesass 53 points54 points  (10 children)

No, they were fired for breach of contract according to Activision. They had just signed long term contracts in 2008 if I’m not mistaken but were let go not even a year after Modern Warfare 2’s launch. Some members of the Infinity Ward team walked after Zampella and West were fired and followed them when they formed Respawn over at EA.

[–]ImJLu 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Half the damn studio left, lol. Or at least half the creative staff.

[–]DeeOhEf 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Indeed, it's quite literally the reason why IW cod games took an absolute nosedive in quality after MW2 until many came back for MW19.

[–]AltimaNEO 9 points10 points  (4 children)

And respawn was independent too. They weren't part of EA till after Titanfall 2.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Gotcha. I knew they left to create Respawn but I thought they left themselves.

[–]AltimaNEO 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think Activision tried to make it look like they left at first till more news leaked out about the situation.

[–]ameekpalsingh 175 points176 points  (3 children)

"The consumers are being ripped off while the guys making the games are exploited/tossed out after the money is made."

That is such an important point.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Yeah not sure how I’ve said anything contentious here

[–]AromaticHorizons 55 points56 points  (1 child)

You are perilously close to making a point in favor of some sort of regulation, or worker rights, and I'm pretty sure that is... [checks notes] Communism!

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Oops! I accidentally a communism

But yeah, something has to change.

[–]SecretAntWorshiper 104 points105 points  (33 children)

I remember as a kid I grew up wanting to get into game development because I loved video games. After I took a programming class in high school I realized that I suck at coding and dealing with computers, really glad I didn't pursue that path because I dodged a bullet

[–]littlestseal 158 points159 points  (10 children)

It's crazy too because programming is some of the most lucrative work you can be qualified to do with just a bachelor's (or without one, even)

In every single field except gaming, where you're paid much less because "it's your passion"

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (3 children)

It's because the supply for video game programmers is much higher than other programmers and they will put up without way more shit to work on video games compared to working on accounting software.

It sucks but the more people who are passionate about working a certain job the worse they can pay and treat you. It's fucking bullshit and shouldn't be the case but that's how it is.

[–]s4ntana 3 points4 points  (2 children)

In every single field except gaming, where you're paid much less because "it's your passion"

Well kinda, but you're really missing the big picture. It's their passion, and it's actually a lot of people's. Too many people's passion. And when you have an oversupply, well now you don't really get much leverage because there's someone else who will do the job when you won't.

[–]kciuq1 40 points41 points  (1 child)

I remember as a kid I grew up wanting to get into game development because I loved video games. After I took a programming class in college I realized that I suck at coding and dealing with computers, really glad I didn't pursue that path because I dodged a bullet

"We just have to tighten up the graphics on level 3"

[–]ISTBU 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Man, I miss YTMND

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

The reason why video game developers are so underpaid and mistreated compared to other programmers is that there's just way more people wanting to work on video games than they do on accounting software or whatever.

It really sucks that people get exploited for wanting to pursue their passion.

[–]Burdicus 21 points22 points  (2 children)

I went to college for Game Design, got my degree and was offered a job at Activision (they take a LOT of college grads). But I had been warned by mentors in the industry and by alumni of my program, that the odds of being laid off after your first gig are about 90%, that way they can bring in another wave of fresh recruits and not pay what you're going to be looking for after 2-3 years of experience.
I did a bit of indie work for a while, but pretty quickly changed careers entirely. I don't regret anything because I'm doing very well for myself now - but I certainly dodged a bullet by not chasing the carrot.

[–]Blackbeard519 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I found out I really like programming but I couldn't get into game development. Now I don't want to get into game development but there's other programming jobs

[–]PixelAlchemist 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was in the exact same boat as you mate. Took classes in high school and some in college. Decided to change fields due to how toxic the industry and how underpaid devs are.

[–]McRawffles 138 points139 points  (11 children)

I despise what the industry has become

Game devs (qa especially) have been treated like shit the whole way through. Cash grabbiness has been there for decades in sports games. It's becoming a little more pervasive now but it's not new.

Hopefully we're reaching a breaking point where the broader game dev community starts to realize unionization is a key to helping fix those problems. Some already have, but not enough to really change the whole industry's shit practices as is.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 36 points37 points  (4 children)

A little more? I think that’s being incredibly generous.

And yeah, at no point did I say it was new. The blatant exploitation of both worker and customer is clearly reaching critical mass. Every other studio/release is a total mess.

[–]blackmist 13 points14 points  (0 children)

We're certainly a long way from the likes of the Darling brothers publishing games from the Oliver twins when they were all teenagers.

Money ruined everything.

[–]Imayormaynotneedhelp 34 points35 points  (18 children)

I am reminded of a recent video by Yahtzee Croshaw (Zero Punctuation guy), who compared the current state of the industry to where film was in the mid-to-late 20th century, with their overinflated budgets and a focus on making things bigger and more spectacular, but not necessarily better. He theorised in that video, and I agreed, that in the future we are likely to see a ditching of the massive open-world with incredible graphics, and in its place we will see smaller games that are more focused and have tighter design principles.

The general public is becoming tired of massive, open world "live service" games with microtransactions. The formula is being run into the ground. While we will still see open world games, and ongoing, evolving games, and certainly microtransactions, I am convinced the "formula" is dying. Which at this point can only be a good thing. Perhaps there will be a resurgence of the "AA" studios that used to be far more common? Budgets larger than most indie developers can afford, but also not on the scale of tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, that AAA games get. Yes, those games weren't always good, but there was usually at least an attempt at making something fun. AAA gaming feels like it is losing the understanding of how to make something fun.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 28 points29 points  (8 children)

The “middle class” of gaming is sorely missed. Some of my best gaming times were picking up random PS2, Xbox, 360 games and seeing what they were like. That 4-7 rating area often had cult classics and hidden gems.

Pretty much all of those AA studios got gobbled up by EA and the likes and put them to bed.

A renaissance is needed, like you say.

[–]OctorokHero 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I definitely feel this as a Nintendo fan, I played so many "B-tier" games on my DS and 3DS like spinoffs, and they often satisfied me more than the blockbusters. Now on the Switch we hardly get that sort of thing, and when we do they're usually elevated to the level of "A-tier" games in terms of standards and price. Just look at almost all the Pokémon spinoffs in the past 4-5 years being mobile games.

I'd revert everything back to GameCube/PS2-level graphics if it meant more games that came out faster.

[–]TRS2917 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What's more frustrating to me is that we can't even really dig into indie games for innovative, imperfect gems because that scene is so polluted with trash...

[–]InternetCrank 11 points12 points  (2 children)

If it's going the way of Hollywood, then surely youd expect it to churn out an endless stream of the gaming equivalent of MCU? Some endless formulaic blockbusters that make ludicrous profits?

Getting smaller? I don't see it.

[–]BrotherSwaggsly 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Honestly the MCU parallel works with the likes of GTA, Assassins Creed, Battlefield, CoD, Far Cry and anything in a similar camp. They’ve been basically the same thing for the better part of 10 years.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Do you have any actual evidence that people are getting tired of these games? Its more likely that the recent games just aren't good not that there is something inherently wrong with the genre. I expect Starfield and the next ES will be dearly loved openworld incredible graphics games.

[–]Netcob 6 points7 points  (0 children)

12 years ago I was interning at a game developer. It was probably the worst the industry had to offer - pay2win browser games. Listened to the CEO give a speech about how there's a recession, so we have to tighten our belts and work overtime. Oh, and the company is doing great and just got bought by a media empire. And he literally told us to focus on making money, not quality.

I decided to get a master's and figured that I can develop other things besides computer games.

[–]Picnicpanther 58 points59 points  (6 children)

Unions are the answer.

[–]Segod_or_Bust 86 points87 points  (22 children)

Jim Sterling was right about everything

[–]Breakernaut 40 points41 points  (2 children)

He's been right for years. But when your persona for videos is an edgelord who yells about everything it's hard to get people to listen. I respect Jim's opinions and they're well thought out but the last time I watched a video of his was when Totalbiscuit was alive.

[–]WriterV 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Yeah, the fascist imagery was not my thing, so there was no way to know whether he was saying anything legit or not. And given that fascists typically spout whatever wins them the most points with the public, I didn't give him much thought. I tried to force myself to watch him, but just... eugh.

[–]NonaSuomi282 5 points6 points  (0 children)

They haven't had the faux-dictator for like... five years or so now.

[–]acrunchycaptain 61 points62 points  (16 children)

They always are. It's crazy to see how time after time they receive so much shit despite everything they are so spot on about.

[–]MisterCata 60 points61 points  (13 children)

They get shit because, somehow, corporations have fans.

[–]acrunchycaptain 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Yeah it's super fucking weird how "gamers" act like attacking a corporation is attacking them because they play that corporations games. I'm just glad we still have someone like Sterling who won't stop no matter what. Even I get a bit over them making the same videos over and over but I'll always support it because of how important it is to not stop the message.

[–]Fiddleys[🍰] 24 points25 points  (1 child)

It's not even gamers. It's more of a general population thing. People tie lots of shit into their identity that they absolutely should not be. So any critique against their 'brand' seems like a grievous attack against them.

At least in the US I blame the general deemphasizing on critical thinking thats been slowly happening since at least the 80s. A person hears 'Nike is shit' and immediately thinks they are being called shit cause they happen to like Nike instead of stopping to think for a minute on why someone would call Nike shit.

[–]Amartincelt 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Exactly. My roommate told me years ago I was nuts because I repeated a lot of what Steph was saying back in the day about games industry.

Roomie finally admitted the other day that “I” was right - was like, nah dog, I got all that from the Jimquisition/Podquisition.

[–]foxomo 13 points14 points  (3 children)

We need leaders from the developers side to manage an organization that attracts developers on a partnership/ownership or a profit sharing scheme thus everyone is provided the tools necessary to create a team and make games.

[–]FlyingSpaghetti 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You're just not going to get that as long as there are swaths of qualified, passionate devs willing to work for less than industry norms. You might get little moments where that happens for a lucky indie few, but that'll never be the trend without regulation.

The rest of tech functions just fine without profit sharing, because devs aren't willing to work on something like an insurance portal under those conditions. I agree we'd all be better off for it, but it's just not realistic.

[–]Wiggles114 15 points16 points  (0 children)

To anyone doubting the underlying truths in the above comment, I highly recommend checking out Jason Schreier's book Hard Reset. Essentially each chapter follows a story of game developers getting completely burned out or laid off mainstream studios, then forging out to create amazing indie games.

Games are the most profitable medium for a good few years now. The executives are almost all money people, not games people. That's why we're seeing so many anti-consumer and anti-labor policies in mainstream studios. And that's also why awesome indie games are so abundant.

[–]breaking3po 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Exploitation is big business

[–]jcman01 65 points66 points  (1 child)

What is AB?

[–]CaptainBritish 77 points78 points  (0 children)

Activision Blizzard.

[–]JayRoo83 1965 points1966 points  (201 children)

Really feels like anyone wanting to get into game dev nowadays would be better suited getting a boring 9-5 working at a software company and working on a passion project with some friends on the side

The industry is just not in a good place for the people doing the actual work nowadays

[–]destroyermaker 788 points789 points  (58 children)

It's been the case for a long time. Software dev has its own problems but mostly it respects your time and pays you more for it. You have to really love games to go that route instead (or be fortunate enough to be hired by one of the few decent companies, or win the lottery with your own game).

[–]Katholikos 411 points412 points  (48 children)

Game development is difficult, has mediocre pay for the skill required, and has terrible work-life balance. It’s only popular because working with games is fun and people are willing to be fucked over for the experience

[–]DesiOtaku 68 points69 points  (4 children)

It’s only popular because working with games is fun

Until you are trying to blow up the tank for the 100th time and trying to debug what the hell is wrong with the damage matrix!

Everything is fun until you have to do the same things over and over again.

[–]AC5L4T3R 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Have a degree in Games Design, only stuck with it for access to 3ds Max and ZBrush. Never heard any good stories from the tutors that had previously worked in a Game Dev studio and thus never worked in the industry. Got a recruiter from CD Projekt Red asking if I would be interested in a vehicle design job for Cyberpunk, told them no thanks and forgot about it. Even as an artist, I just don't think the hassle of working at a Game Dev studio is worth it.

[–]ICantReadThis 137 points138 points  (15 children)

Everything is a market, and every job is an employment market.

Right now game development is sadly glutted with supply, and as a result, the price of an employee is basically at rock bottom.

We'll probably see a mass exodus of people who realize that pretty much any 9-5 in software is a trivially easy career compared to game development. Hopefully when that happens, a lack of supply will result in better conditions for those who stuck around.

[–]Rata-toskr 41 points42 points  (6 children)

Am in SD, can confirm easy "9-5". Half days on Fridays, since the later half is for "PD". Able to set expectations with clients rather than having deadlines conforming to quarterly shareholder meetings. 3 weeks vacation, remote work, flexible hours.

[–]DonnyTheWalrus 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm a SD at a nonprofit. Nonprofit means salary is high five-figures instead of low six-figures (in a low COL city), but I do get 6 weeks of PTO (our positions start at 4 weeks), so I got that going for me. And having a mission to believe in helps too.

[–]derprunner 94 points95 points  (6 children)

It's absolutely over supplied at the entry level but there is a huge lack of mid to senior level talent, because nobody good sticks around that long and companies aren't paying to train up their young.

Half the reason games are falling flat on launch nowadays is because high level roles are being filled by juniors and most of the institutional knowledge has fucked off to other industries.

If you're ever wondering why studios keep making the same design mistakes. Its because most of the people who made and learned from them the first time have all been driven out and replaced.

[–]TeaTimeInsanity 44 points45 points  (3 children)

100%. Go look at most job postings too, senior and lead level account for I'd say 85-90% of them. Companies will rarely promote staff to sr from within. If they do its that junior talent that shouldn't have been promoted yet.

Few companies want to invest in juniors, they all want to hire the perfect senior that they don't have to train, and can "hit the ground running"

I've seen this lead to where a lot of senior talent just hops between studio to studio hoping to find one they really enjoy while juniors and staff clog up the entry, making it hard for most to get in

[–]derprunner 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Shit like this makes me so glad I jumped ship to architectural viz years ago. You're treated like a professional and there's a healthy career progression path.

Everything I've heard from mates who've stuck it out in the industry has made it look like a toxic mess.

[–]Kaiserhawk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thats like...every modern corporation you've just described, lol.

[–]TheGazelle 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Yeah I was gonna say. I was a CS student 10 years ago and I remember hearing this from everyone.

And honestly? I'm pretty fucking happy with my choices. I'm doing enterprise-level hcm software.

I don't really care much about what I make (in the sense that I have no real attachment to the hcm space, I do care about the quality of the work itself). But the company I work for is pretty great, the people I work with are mostly great, and we're in the midst of a pretty significant shift in our tech stack and architecture, which is pretty interesting and a fun challenge.

I now work from home permanently, don't work past 5 unless I choose to do so (we've literally had to tell our QA people to stop working late hours so much because we'd rather things take a bit longer and they have their work/life balance), and the benefits are decent.

[–]Hoser117 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Plenty of software dev jobs will gladly work you to the bone but at least it's a lot easier to get paid well for it.

[–]DoctorWaluigiTime 174 points175 points  (19 children)

I advise anyone coming to me for career advice (doesn't happen often) who's interested in development to stay the hell away from anything tangentially related to gaming.

[–]omgpokemans 92 points93 points  (6 children)

Yeah. I worked briefly in the industry - if you're a developer, the games industry is a great way to work double the hours for half the pay.

[–]HomelessLives_Matter 44 points45 points  (4 children)

It’s because they’ve been spoiled with talent that LOVES video games. They do it because they love games, and corporate loves that they put up with shitty conditions for the love of the game.

[–]cool-- 19 points20 points  (0 children)

years ago my wife's cousin worked for a very well-known console game studio, now he as at a very large PC game studio. He was always trying to get me to go for an interview, but he'd tell me the worst stuff like some of their top talent would get laid off when their contribution to a game was complete, but that they would likely get called back for the next project whenever it started up. and because of that there were always openings as if that's a good thing.

It sounded so horrible like a huge game of musical chairs but with people's livelihoods and health benefits

[–]JamesDelgado[🍰] 25 points26 points  (2 children)

I went to college for it and took one honest look at the industry and switched careers halfway through and couldn’t be happier for it.

[–]dilbadil 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Purely anecdotal, but a good friend of mine enjoyed working on the business side for a couple big names. He got started on things related to marketing and monetization, though, and I'm sure the work-life balance and salary are much more attractive on that side of the house.

[–]stakoverflo 46 points47 points  (2 children)

100% the case.

Get a cushy 'business software' job and if you still have the hunger to code in your spare time then make a game.

You'll make way better money and benefits, as well as retain complete control over the game (assuming you make it yourself - or contract out asset generation and whatnot)

[–]MickSt8 47 points48 points  (0 children)

Exaaaactly what I did! My dream was to be a game dev. From the time I first played Elmo's Letter Adventure I knew I wanted to work with games. Then when I was in college, I saw my friends who graduated before me subject themselves to horrific work conditions, excruciating hours, and terrible management just to be involved in game development in any way they could.

3/3 of them have left the industry by the end of their second year, I changed focus to Cybersec, and became a software engineer. Fuck working in game development. That industry chews you up and spits you out unlike anything else I've seen/experienced in tech.

[–]HaggardSauce 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I genuinely considered making gamed when in college 9-10 years ago. The crunch culture was something that was infamously known about but not addressed. Companies at that time announced ceunches like badges of honor.

As much as I love gaming I could never work a 80-120 hour work week without being completely miserable. I still end up working 50+ hours but at least it's at a decent wage and my bonuses don't depend on metacritic reviews that can be tanked because some dumb fuck exec spat his mouth off about features that don't exist or insisted on launching early.

[–]SolenoidSoldier 116 points117 points  (31 children)

As someone who found a career in web development, it pains me see some call it a "boring 9-5 software job". If you enjoy coding, you'll enjoy the work, assuming you work under a great company and beside some great employees.

[–]Beorma 57 points58 points  (14 children)

You might not get as much recognition or glam in non-gaming software development, but you'll also find it's piss easy to get a new job if you leave your current and both the pay and respect for your time is much greater.

Game development has been notoriously bad in terms of compensation and work/life balance for decades.

[–]junkmiles 37 points38 points  (9 children)

You might not get as much recognition or glam in non-gaming software development

Probably a good thing honestly. When was the last time users of banking software, or an office suite, were doxed or sent death threats?

[–]ragweed 9 points10 points  (0 children)

There are plenty of interesting software development jobs the general public has no clue about.

I'm sure my applications seem boring to most people.

I studied CS to be a programmer with ambitions of being in games or film, but I don't regret not working in those industries.

In my experience, it's the development process in an organization and my role in it that determines whether I'm bored or not. The actual application doesn't really matter.

[–]stakoverflo 44 points45 points  (10 children)

Strongly disagree. I like coding and solving problems, but most of my professional work is "fix this dumb bug", "canabalize that ancient app with zero documentation so we can get it off a Windows 2000 Server" and other arbitrary tasks. Cool I wrote a thing that'll help the bank operate with marginally better efficiency / reduced risk?

I've had great coworkers where I played board/card games with over lunch almost every day, that helps you not hate your job but it doesn't make me ENJOY it.

I've worked for a small shop making custom software for other small businesses, international finance, and medical. It's all the same, just putting words and numbers on a screen somewhere. I'd definitely call it boring.

[–]Fedacking 17 points18 points  (2 children)

"fix this dumb bug", "canabalize that ancient app with zero documentation so we can get it off a Windows 2000 Server"

Different strokes for different folks, I find this kinda stuff fun.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I'm a programmer and my personal investment and interest in the projects I'm assigned to are very low. Despite that, I still find myself enjoying my work and sometimes willingly working on weekends without being asked because I just enjoy the creative problem-solving and the challenging incremental process of building up little bits of working code and expanding on them. I think it just takes a specific kind of person, I can see how it would be a bore to some people but I think if you open your mind up to how incredible and miraculous computing is, any kind of coding becomes pretty fun. It's rewarding to start with nothing and slowly watch your code flesh out into a working application. I may just be a weirdo though, because I even like just hunting down and fixing bugs.

[–]rockmasterflex 12 points13 points  (0 children)

This has always been the case. Even 20 years ago.

The best bet for anyone who wants to be a game Dev for a living is:

1) go into general computing

2) in your spare time learn and develop indie games in whatever popular game making engine that was just invented and trivializes how the games you played growing up were made

3) eventually you will reach a point where you need money to pay for quality art and music assets to actual take one of your janky games to release, maybe as a mobile app- good thing you had that real job all along!

4) hope you didn’t make a family or get married, working one paid job and one unpaid is not really gonna work out with other relationships

[–]Fermenting-Vagina 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Once you realise you make MORE money and get a MORE stable job and better life quality as a normal Software engineer in It, than as a gaming Dev, the choice is quite clear.

I knew some computer genius who aced in math, coding etc from the start, and his life dream was becoming a game Dev. Games and making them was his entire passion.

He's now working a normal but stable job in IT. And he makes more money too.

[–]NotKyle 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Started paying closer attention to the industry as I went through college wanting be a gamedev and... yeah that's exactly how I ended up for exactly the listed reasons. Hurts to see so many truly passionate people exploited like this

[–]Smallwater 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Work as a software dev. Assisted a few colleagues who were working on some gamification projects. One of then was a seasoned game dev, with a game on the Steam store. He said the exact same thing as you.

And it wasn't even in the US.

[–]GuiSim 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As many of my peers, I started a Software Engineering degree with the hopes of getting into the gaming industry. I quickly learned that the conditions were shit. I'm now very happy building software outside of the gaming industry.

[–]Astrian 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It really sucks. Feels like outside of these big gaming corporations, being in the industry isn't a viable option. I don't think it's worth your sanity and motivation just to have a stable job in a field you like.

[–]LOCHO53 1133 points1134 points  (50 children)

The fact that there are people who continue to fight for their fellow employees show there's still some decent life left at that company. But it also indicates the management at Activision has rotted at every level. There's no longer trust and I doubt there ever will be again, unless there's a full sweep of their leadership and management chain. Keep up the good fight peeps. Not that it matters, but there's still one schmuck out here who has hope y'all can turn it around.

[–]entity2 14 points15 points  (1 child)

So long as it's a publicly traded company and beholden to shareholder interests before anything else ("Fiduciary responsibility") nothing is going to change short of such a mass exodus that the company starts actively losing money due to a lack of development capability.

[–]WrassleKitty 67 points68 points  (1 child)

I mean they probably know they aren’t safe either better to leave on their terms and maybe force some change or at least outcry then to slowly be laid off.

[–]CaptainBritish 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Precisely. Might as well make a stand if you're probably going to be booted at some point anyway.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (9 children)

This shows AGAIN this industry needs unions.

[–]ItStartsInTheToes 455 points456 points  (85 children)

While I fully understand the general ebb and flow of business and staffing needs.

I can’t believe there is someone at c-level that authorized it, even if it was the ‘correct business choice’ due to all the garbage news that has been coming out lately about internal workings.

What’s even more ridiculous is that many of these people had to relocate on their own expense to keep their jobs already.

Just take the payroll/profit hit at this point, damn.

I don’t see why we keep hearing about a 1 day walkout and not just full unionization which would actually help them We need better worker protections on all industries

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (7 children)

I can't imagine payroll for 12 QA testers was that big of a hit to Activision blizzard's profits... They were all performing well.

[–]Lisentho 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Yeah but the manager that made that decision will get a nice bonus for lowering their departments overhead.

[–]Twas_Inevitable 16 points17 points  (7 children)

What's really crazy is people relocated for a QA minimum wage job.

[–]barnes101 21 points22 points  (2 children)

These weren't minimum wage QA positions, some laid off where mid- and senior level QA personnel on contract. I don't have the numbers but more like a 17-35 an hour jobs from what I hear.

[–]Beegrene 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Especially to Madison, Wisconsin. I can see doing that for someplace with a large gaming industry presence, like the bay area, but not Wisconsin.

[–]BuzzBadpants 193 points194 points  (34 children)

What is it with all these companies across a wide variety of industries getting record profits only to turn around and cut benefits/lay off employees? You can call it greed, but I don’t know why companies would be more greedy today than they were just a year ago…

[–]ChampNotChicken 103 points104 points  (6 children)

Companies want to make more money. It’s literally as simple as that.

[–]fraudulentdev_ 108 points109 points  (5 children)

As Jim Sterling said:

"they don't want more money, they want all the money"

[–]ZersetzungMedia 16 points17 points  (1 child)

That was years ago, they want more than all of the money.

[–]TimeGlitches 42 points43 points  (10 children)

Cutting people cuts costs. They also then don't have to pay out retirements or benefits.

Of course this is all temporary, as they'll have to hire people back on to ramp up development again. But they can hire people for even less, usually on contract, and operate with even less cost.

This has the knock on effect of much shittier products because everyone is temporary and expendible. So you have people that don't know the project and tools well enough, doing a job they don't really care about because they won't be working on it long, and getting paid pennies on the dollar compared to other industries.

You wanna know why AAA games are shoddier than ever? Brain drain. This whole mess is the "how".

[–]BuzzBadpants 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Well employees have always been the main expenditure for companies, that's nothing new, but when the companies make more money than ever before, as we've seen this past year in food processing, automobiles, retail, electronics, and yes, video games, but all these companies have chosen to scale back employee benefits, just doesn't make any long-term sense.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

It's the result of capitalisms unsustainable goal of endless growth. It's physically impossible to keep growing year over year and video game companies are at the point where it's becoming harder to find new ways to make more money or reach new audiences.

[–]igot200phones 6 points7 points  (1 child)

If only people could be satisfied with a reasonable amount of profit and not required to make more every year.

[–]Slashermovies 88 points89 points  (5 children)

Another walkout from Activision Blizzard instead of a full on strike. Seriously, we need unions for companies as this is just becoming a total joke now.

These walkouts aren't doing anything if any indication of Blizzard's side shows evidence.

[–]Moskeeto93 28 points29 points  (3 children)

Seriously tired of seeing this happen. Walkouts don't do shit. Go on strike and form a union. The higher ups must be glad to see them only do walkouts.

[–]NasoLittle 161 points162 points  (9 children)

I like how the rep said "We're only laying off 20! We're making 500 temps permanent.)

*Laid of 30% of QA

Aaah, okay. You're firing 1/3 of your QA because youre not going to be adding as much content? No? Save money? Record profits, oh. So, what then?

See it everywhere across multiple industries. Lets see how this plays out

[–]Fatal1ty_93_RUS 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Lets see how this plays out

Same as always - everybody will move on by next week

[–]HamiltonFAI 27 points28 points  (1 child)

And for the amount of bugs and game breaking glitches has, they clearly need all the QA support they can get

[–]MisterTorgo 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Crazy, given that Activision only became the first 3rd party developer because Atari wouldn't give its developers due credit. It's almost like corporate America is incapable of treating people with respect or something.

[–]Nightmannn 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The gaming industry has been abusing 'temp-workers' for decades now. It's beyond bullshit. There are often no stipulated length of contracts either. It's contract-to-hire where management dangles a carrot for months on end while temp-workers put in mad overtime hours to get the hopeful reward of full-time employment.

It's just a ridiculous standard for the industry that needs to end.

[–]mnl_cntn 76 points77 points  (37 children)

See this shit is why people shouldn’t buy games from these companies. They can make all the money in the world and will still layoff hundreds of people. Boycotts don’t hurt the developers, buying and supporting these companies hurt the developers.

[–]ClassicKrova 132 points133 points  (32 children)

A part of me hopes that Activision learns that maybe they should support their CoD games for more than one year, so that when a good one launches it doesn't get stepped on.

MW2019 still is the best core Call of Duty game you can play right now. It's arguably a better Battlefield game than Battlefield 2042.

My worry is that Activision is going to take the lesson of "We can't release a REALLY good game anymore, because it will make our OKAY games look bad".

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

They won't. They literally did this to all their support staff last year and no one cared.

[–]TienKehan 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Might be the nostalgia, but I think Call of Duty peaked with the original black ops. It's still the best selling call of duty ever if I remember correctly.

[–]linksis33 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We had a 4-5 year period of modern warfare/world at war/modern warfare 2/black ops/mw3. That period was absolutely the peak of cod, though the mw reboot can give them a run for their money.

[–]theopression 20 points21 points  (10 children)

The rumors are that starting with the next modern warfare that is exactly what they’re going to be doing

[–]ClassicKrova 9 points10 points  (9 children)

The rumors are that starting with the next modern warfare that is exactly what they’re going to be doing

Do you mean they are going to make it a 3-year game, or do you mean they are going to release Mediocre Call of Duty games so that the follow ups don't seem as bad by comparison?

[–]Jolsty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How much of this is the fault of it being in the USA? In Europe you don't get to fire people that easily, I think

[–]Techboah 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Activision really can't stop themselves from taking Ls, they deserve everything being thrown at them. I hope these devs succeed

[–]luisfigo7 23 points24 points  (3 children)

There is only one way out of this terrible situation workers find themselves again and again in the US. Unionize!

[–]digital821 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So they added 500 full time positions and laid off 20? Did I read that correctly?

[–]ripelivejam 24 points25 points  (3 children)

Low sales of vanguard, obviously the problem is we need to trim the fat!

Hurts me a tad to not play d2r (though I hear it's still in a pretty fucked state), but can't possibly support these fucks unless there's major obvious changes, which I doubt will happen. Good on them for walking.

[–]ItStartsInTheToes 47 points48 points  (2 children)

The team being laid off has nothing to do with vanguard, they are specifically the QA team working on Warzone.