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[–]The-JSP 8991 points8992 points  (1403 children)

This weekend is going to be very ugly in the Middle East.

[–]quirkyfemme 3087 points3088 points  (211 children)

This will be a few months

[–]honestbluff 3641 points3642 points  (160 children)

“This will be a few months” was what I said in my Moscow apartment on Feb 24. 2022

[–]dread_deimos 925 points926 points  (17 children)

"Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!" was what I said in my Kyiv appartment on Feb 24 2022.

[–]angryapplepanda 1327 points1328 points  (93 children)

That's what I said at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, too.

[–]Derazchenflegs 1260 points1261 points  (78 children)

Wait, are you guys implying this conflict between Israel and Palestine isn't going to end soon? Crazy prophetic takes right here.

[–]Royal-Maybe6839 365 points366 points  (25 children)

[–]Chunk-Norris 108 points109 points  (17 children)

Without looking at this link, is this the Gaza Scrap bit from the onion? The news from the future? It’s my favourite thing from the onion

[–]Royal-Maybe6839 94 points95 points  (12 children)

It used to be satire but turned to prophecy.

[–]ImmaMichaelBoltonFan 575 points576 points  (182 children)

it's fucking tragic and i wish there was something -anything- anyone can do. but i don't see it happening. unless there's a major paradigm shift in the younger generations, this will continue into the future.

[–]StrongPangolin3 539 points540 points  (98 children)

This shit has been going on in some form since the Roman Empire. It'll take aliens landing for us to take a breath from old fights.

[–]StuckInNov1999 503 points504 points  (19 children)

Aliens lands and:

50% of them side with Israel

50% of them side with Palestinians

100% of them arm both sides.

[–]Few-Hair-5382 1351 points1352 points  (272 children)

I've got a strong feeling way more Palestinians will be dead at the end of this than Israelis.

[–]opelan 898 points899 points  (171 children)

That's for sure. This might be the end of the Gaza Strip as a somewhat independent place. I think Israel will take it under control after this and Hamas won't be in power anymore. It is sad that civilians will likely die in the crossfire between Hamas and Israel.

[–]rulepanic 1563 points1564 points  (643 children)

The Israeli response is going to be huge. The images I've seen, and no doubt the Israeli public have seen, is of Palestinian terrorists going street to street and executing civilians including children. The ones they don't execute they're kidnapping. Thousands upon thousands of people are going to die. The Israeli government has declared they're at war.

[–]Bobmanbob1 436 points437 points  (69 children)

Yeah just saw them kill a family of 3 including a young girl it looked like, straight on execution. That's fucked.

[–]WavingWookiee 269 points270 points  (18 children)

All Hama's has done is make it open season. Israel will have their own public wanting blood, international condemnation of reprisals will be minimised by the images everyone has seen. All Hamas has done in this situation is got themselves destroyed and thousands of innocents killed and injured

[–]surle 196 points197 points  (6 children)

Nobody benefits more from Palestinian hardship than Hamas.

[–]techmagenta 68 points69 points  (1 child)

That’s literally what they want.

[–]Infamous-Salad-2223 5345 points5346 points  (456 children)

I guess there will be investigations for this intelligence failure.

These conflict years really showed being unprepared costs a lot of lives.

[–]jolygoestoschool 541 points542 points  (4 children)

And on the 50th anniversary of the yom kippur war, famous for the Israelis lack of preparedness. I hope Bibi goes through the same investigations that Meir did then.

[–]BubsyFanboy 2021 points2022 points  (188 children)

Yeah, it does make you wonder how Israel was caught unprepared for this.

[–]Prior_Kangaroo3327 2398 points2399 points  (102 children)

Bibis opposition has been warning for months that the hard right coallitions actions have been undermining actual self defense capabilities.

[–]lontrinium 1957 points1958 points  (70 children)

Or maybe they're happy to let civilians die in order to further their own power hungry causes.

[–]Prior_Kangaroo3327 1005 points1006 points  (29 children)

Probably both. I really hope people recognize the scale of this attack and it bent able to be carried off like this as the biggest Israeli leadership failure in decades and ends Bibis rule, but I'm not hopeful. Actual IDF leaders were begging them to listen but too busy trying to become the Turkey of the middle east instead of the "only democracy in the middle east". That there was IDF protecting thieves and hard right settlers at the West Bank , who get out of mandatory service, while these villages were left defenseless to be slaughtered, needs to be a thing Israelis see and never forget.

[–]Japak121 145 points146 points  (18 children)

Please help me understand this.. don't the IDF top brass have some control over troop postings? Why were they not able to deploy troops to this area if they believed an attack was coming? Or when you said actual IDF leaders did you mean lower ranked officers?

[–]PyroIsSpai 259 points260 points  (14 children)

Either the Netanyahu government failed to stop it and he should quit as his leadership failure allowed it to happen, or he allowed it to happen to some end, and if so needs to be removed from power.

I think they are saying this.

[–]aggro-crag 138 points139 points  (8 children)

“If you didn’t know, you’re too dumb to keep this job. If you did know, you’re in on it. Either way, you’re out!”

[–]KouLeifoh625 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Love seeing a casino quote while skimming the comments

[–]Vierenzestigbit 360 points361 points  (6 children)

Reelecting corrupt to the core Netanyahu

[–]Snoo_57113 670 points671 points  (20 children)

Corruption, A right-wing and religiously conservative government that removes check and balances from the press and judicial power weakens the institutions and make it vulnerable to corruption.

[–]Pyreau 328 points329 points  (1 child)

Yeah and the death of their own innocent civilians will probably secure their power even more.

They don't care who dies as long as they can continue their corruption

[–]Lipush 3376 points3377 points  (303 children)

Just recieved this text on my phone:

Announcement from the municipality of Ness Ziona, Saturday, 7.10.23, time 13:00

Israel is at war.

Instructions of the Home Front Command:

It is recommended to stay next to protected spaces.

Gathering is prohibited:

Over 50 people in a closed area

Over 10 people in an open area

According to the instructions, all the events planned today, the eve of Simchat Torah, are cancelled.

Tomorrow, Sunday, 8.10.23, there will be no classes in all educational institutions.

Due to the situation, power outages in the city.

If it is not necessary, it is recommended not to use the elevators.

The municipal emergency teams are deployed in the area and provide a comprehensive response.

All the public shelters in the city are open and we equip them with emergency lighting, mattresses and water.

The municipal stadium was used as a reception center and is ready to receive residents as the need arises.

The educational psychological service was opened.

Hotline for emotional support for children and parents, call 08-9306010 or via 106 dispatch

Ness Ziona Municipality spokeswoman

[–]i-d-even-k- 2092 points2093 points  (272 children)

This is a declaration of war.

It's actually happening.

[–]NotTheGrim 1599 points1600 points  (258 children)

Yeah, Israel declares war. Full scale invasion of Palestine is imminent.

[–]afiefh 1274 points1275 points  (240 children)

Invading Gaza is the "easy" part, what to do with it after is the difficult part. Israel has no interest in taking 2 million Palestinians from Gaza into Israel proper, and they are not going to annihilate them or move them into the west bank (can you imagine the logistic nightmare of moving 2 million people?), so what are the options for what happens after the war? Return to status quo and repeat in 10-20 years?

[–]AsleepOcelot3014 737 points738 points  (84 children)

Israel occupied Gaza until 2005, I assume they will crush Hamas and occupy Gaza again. The trick there is the possibility of Hezbollah joining in if Israel does a ground invasion of Gaza, which seems to be very likely. Hezbollah has well over 100k rockets at their disposal. Then there's the domino effect of other countries potentially joining in. Awful situation.

[–]Bangkok_Dangeresque 229 points230 points  (9 children)

The population of Gaza has grown by 500k since the last time Israel found occupying and policing it to be more trouble than it was worth. I can't imagine the calculus is any better now than it was then.

[–]Additional_Meeting_2 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Even if they would not continue the occupation indefinitely it doesn’t mean they would not feel it good idea temporarily.

[–]visvis 360 points361 points  (52 children)

I assume they will crush Hamas and occupy Gaza again

However many times they crush Hamas, it will come back again as long as the situation for Palestinians doesn't improve. Creating a better situation for Palestinians is the only way to really defeat Hamas. However, Netanyahu doesn't want to do that, because without Hamas people won't vote for him.

[–]CBarkleysGolfSwing 86 points87 points  (5 children)

Taking the US approach to eradicating terrorists, by creating more of them

[–]Dragondrew99 202 points203 points  (3 children)

I saw this and immediately said fuck. This is gonna get ugly, stay safe everyone and hopefully it doesn’t get worse :(

[–]MrMoistandDelicious 4471 points4472 points  (620 children)

How were the idf caught with their pants down?

[–]azdood85 3633 points3634 points  (204 children)

Quite literally with pants down. Some of the videos being posted show attacks on barracks, some barely had time to get a kit on and rifle in hand.

[–]BristolShambler 1961 points1962 points  (179 children)

They just rolled into a base…I don’t understand it

[–]No-Big-5030 2006 points2007 points  (96 children)

It was an outpost. Probably manned by 20 to 50 soldiers. The Hamas had hundreds of soldiers for this attack. Once they take down the outside barrier like the fence, theres no way the soldiers inside can defend against such a large force.

[–]IlluminatedPickle 1410 points1411 points  (72 children)

Some of them were still in their bunks, if that's not failing to respond to an attack I don't know what is, unless they somehow teleported in.

[–]thej00ninja 503 points504 points  (63 children)

Well I did just see a claim they paraglided in.

[–]IlluminatedPickle 464 points465 points  (60 children)

Take those with a grain of salt. The only proof of that I've seen so far is just "Dude on paraglider, low over a suburb somewhere in the middle east" videos.

Edit: Keep sending me links and/or mentioning the same videos I've already mentioned. That'll prove it!

[–]CreativeAnalytics 126 points127 points  (5 children)

There are videos of them training with them released by Hamas. It's real. Not sure of the quantity of infiltration in that form.

[–]omegashadow 214 points215 points  (5 children)

One thing to be over-run fighting, another to be over-run sleeping.

The entire point of an outpost is to have a place to respond from in a combat situation. There was zero readiness.

[–]Kitchner 45 points46 points  (3 children)

The entire point of an outpost is to have a place to respond from in a combat situation. There was zero readiness.

Actually more cynically the point of these outposts is that soldiers at the outpost die in any attack launched which gives advanced notice to everyone else. So they've sort of fulfilled their job.

[–]Risley 50 points51 points  (0 children)

Israel Has Mossad. This in inexcusable. The Netanyahu hardliner government is an absolute failure especially with all their bs talk on defense. Turns out they never gave a damn about being prepared.

[–]RosemaryFocaccia 81 points82 points  (6 children)

Was there no lookout? Did no-one see them approach on motorbikes with guns over their shoulders? It's an insane level of incompetence.

[–]PineappleLemur 736 points737 points  (75 children)

It's a weekend + holiday. so least amount of staff. those outposts don't have many people in general and even less on a weekends.. not every soldier is trained like a navy seal ffs. a lot of these people only had a few months of training and are doing their weekend "duty" which is guard the gate.

imagine it's your time (once a month or so) to guard the gate.. you are not really expecting much other than "how to kill the next 4 hours"

[–]TinKicker 480 points481 points  (49 children)

Just like the Japanese studied Pearl Harbor for more than a year to determine the perfect time to attack, Hamas clearly did the same.

[–]KaiserSozes-brother 391 points392 points  (38 children)

50 year anniversary of the Yom Kippur war , Oh who could’ve guessed the Palestinians would have remembered?

Does this occur to no one in the defense forces?

[–]8andahalfby11 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Jewish holidays are on the lunar calendar. Yom Kippur was a few weeks earlier this year. There's a lesser holiday called Simchat Torah this weekend, but that doesn't affect security or services the same way. Doing it by the western calendar date is counterintuitive to them.

[–]CompetitiveSort0 207 points208 points  (20 children)

Armed forces in areas as bat shit crazy as the middle east really outta be fully prepared on national holidays and instead they can all take the next Tuesday off because who the feck is going to launch a major offensive on a random Tuesday morning.

A guerilla force is always going to choose to attack on a date that is significant for them or their enemy. Especially one where every side and faction in the region is so zealous in their beliefs.

It's a bit shocking their intelligence seemed to have had no idea this was coming. I think Israel are going to give even less fucks about collateral than usual.

[–]MobiusF117 159 points160 points  (2 children)

Armed forces in areas as bat shit crazy as the middle east really outta be fully prepared on national holidays

Especially when you've had a whole ass war named after a holiday because of when it broke out.

[–]TheDustOfMen 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Especially when the start of that whole ass war just had its 50th anniversary yesterday.

[–]AlienAle 316 points317 points  (18 children)

Saw a video of a dead Israeli solider in his underwear holding a rifle under one arm. They really took them by surprise.

[–]ISayHeck 434 points435 points  (16 children)

It's the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur war so they felt nostalgic

[–]BUTTFUCKER__3000 425 points426 points  (14 children)

What's interesting is in the US military, they're ALWAYS wary of war anniversaries. Everyone and everything on high alert, juuuust in case. I'm really surprised Israel didn't do the same. I mean,c'mon. The 50 year anniversary.

[–]Munnodol 233 points234 points  (5 children)

Thid is what the Tet offensive does to a man

[–]Mercpool87 49 points50 points  (1 child)

And Benghazi happening on the 11th anniversary of Sept 11.

[–]morts73 2423 points2424 points  (260 children)

This is a suicide mission. Israel will respond with unrelenting force and it won't go well for the Palestinians. I can't see there ever being peace in the region.

[–]ohaiihavecats 981 points982 points  (170 children)

"They made a desert and called it peace."

There's a real risk of that being how this ends up.

[–]Thatguyyoupassby 777 points778 points  (164 children)

Im from Israel and there’s been a few times where I’ve said “jeez, Israel might level the Gaza Strip.” This time it’s real. The loss of life is going to be horrific.

[–]Ragnarawr 1260 points1261 points  (70 children)

It’s strange to wake up to a different sort of world.

[–]thats_a_boundary 1011 points1012 points  (47 children)

this is the 3rd different sort of world in 3 years. you took a long nap.

[–]RobotSpaceBear 384 points385 points  (43 children)

Edit: alright, all the older guys passing by, we get it, you had it even worse. Stop replying.


I was about to say. As a millennial, I feel these last two decades have had a "once in a lifetime" crisis, market collapse, recession, pandemic, climate crisis or war every other year.

[–]MakeMeDoBetter 152 points153 points  (11 children)

At least computers didnt die 2000-1-1.. its the little things.

[–]JohnSmithSensei 1193 points1194 points  (73 children)

How did Israel fall asleep on the wheel this bad?

[–]gregsor78 690 points691 points  (29 children)

its a holiday there right now.

[–]HighRevolver 525 points526 points  (16 children)

Where have I seen this before

[–]xDidddle 412 points413 points  (7 children)

Happened in the same holiday you seen it before. 50th anniversary of this event to be precise. Idk how they did not catch that.

[–]afunnywold 321 points322 points  (5 children)

Not the same holiday. It sounds like it's 50 years on the secular calendar. But it's definitely not Yom Kippur today, it's a holiday called Simchat Torah which is supposed to celebrate the Jewish Hebrew scripture. It has the same rules as Sabbath so orthodox jews will not use their phones. I imagine the Israeli government perhaps has been extra vigilant every year on Yom Kippur, without thinking much about the secular anniversary.

[–]dimen4 486 points487 points  (56 children)

Neutral civilians on both sides who only want peace will perish for no fault of their own.

[–]MandoAviator 75 points76 points  (0 children)

They will perish in the greatest of numbers sadly. Just people who want their pumpkin spice and hang out with their loved ones.

[–]sofilove123 767 points768 points  (131 children)

a child said " i saw a photo of my dad being in gaza, they took him" he wrote her when he was hiding in the safe room with her mom and grandmother and then he wrote that hamas found them and took him . no more response from her family.

WTF

[–]i-d-even-k- 575 points576 points  (112 children)

I saw a video of them cutting the throats of everyone in a saferoom, men women children. I wouldn't hold my hopes out.

[–]czartaylor 202 points203 points  (84 children)

I have a real question. None of the major outlets show stuff like this. Where do people see all these videos? Is it just twitter?

[–]i-d-even-k- 375 points376 points  (74 children)

Twitter and r/combatfootage, although the sub keeps taking down the videos as people keep reuploading them. There are a few specific videos you'll find:

a woman with bloody pants being dragged around after being presumably raped,

a dead woman naked with dreads being spit on and paraded round the streets with Palestinians cheering on and saying allahu akbar

a saferoom of dead bodies of men women kids with slit necks, a man with a slit throat starts to move and the filmer starts shooting him as someone else is screaming in the background (man voice)

a video of a child having his throat cut in a street

a video of a group of men looking terrified and bound by ropes, lying facedown in some dark room as the filmer shouts at them in arabic

a video of someone cutting open the throat of another person, very low quality vid

that's all I saw thus far

[–]Distinct-Shift-4094 50 points51 points  (2 children)

Thanks for describing it. I could never watch those videos. Israel is going to retaliate in ways we can't imagine, and its horrid for both sides.

[–]SeeShark 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Israel will retaliate using very conventional methods -- airstrikes, tanks. The question is when they'll stop.

[–]Correct-Block-1369 258 points259 points  (20 children)

Israel bombed the fuck out of me once as a kid. War crimes are abhorrent. I completely condemn these crimes against Israeli civilians. These are innocent people. The world is fucked.

[–]ElMatasiete7 116 points117 points  (1 child)

I applaud your mental fortitude and moral character in recognizing where the correct stance is on this situation, despite potential biases.

[–]Correct-Block-1369 78 points79 points  (0 children)

Thanks. When I was about to be blasted into ground human beef when Israel was leveling all the areas around me, I was only 13. I was shaking and throwing up and waiting to die huddled with my family while the ground shook and the air whistled and roared with F16s.

I promised myself that if I ever got out of this alive, by some miracle, I would never be like the people who did that to me and that I'd never let this turn me into a heartless person like the people in the airplanes. And I intend to keep that promise because I trust the little girl version of me got that right and I don't question her.

[–]MemusMaximus 781 points782 points  (83 children)

Can we just get one fucking month without another war breaking out in the world?

[–]Palak-Aande_69 330 points331 points  (40 children)

Honestly, Shit has gone beyond control since 31st December 2019...this decade going to be most eventful one for all the wrong reasons...

[–]starving_carnivore 170 points171 points  (18 children)

May you live in boring times.

[–]Feature_Minimum 95 points96 points  (6 children)

I’d say since 2015 or 2016. We had that one beautiful summer of Pokémon Go… and then all hell broke loose.

[–]Letmeiiiiin 31 points32 points  (3 children)

2015 had one of the biggest terrorist sprees in france and northern europe..

[–]Trollslayer0104 23 points24 points  (0 children)

And 2014 had Russia invading Ukraine, but we westerners thought that wasn't our problem!

[–]brendan87na 10 points11 points  (3 children)

oh baby, wait til the climate really starts going off the rails. Water wars and millions of refugees streaming north, it's going to be a wild ride.

[–]Right_Bath9419 1364 points1365 points  (335 children)

What was the point of this? Now people will die on both sides. Palestine will probably be wiped out.

[–]dbxp 299 points300 points  (21 children)

Hamas isn't in the game of protecting and supporting Palestinians, they're in the game of attacking Israel

[–]Lipush 471 points472 points  (11 children)

From "The Nature" party in Re'im, which was attacked by Hamas terrorists, there are about 100 young people missing. Possible that many were taken, as Hamas claims to have abducted over 50 Israelis.

[–]Silent-Alarm9872 463 points464 points  (26 children)

My mind is blown. I was on the phone with one of my techs in Israel and I could hear the fear in his voice. He kept saying he had to call me back. It wasn't until the 3rd time he called that I heard him, clearly say, "Missiles". He has a strong accent and his being shaken up made it a bit difficult to understand. I'm like dude why are you at work? Forget about me, get to safety. Your job ain't that important. I have always been kind to the techs over there. I don't know them at all other than work-related stuff. But that experience triggered some serious compassion. Now I gotta wait till next week to find out if they are OK.

[–]Lipush 227 points228 points  (13 children)

The missiles aren't even the worst part. We're used to those. What took place and still is, today, is pure insenity.

[–]Frosty-Age-6643 36 points37 points  (1 child)

There’s been a ton of propaganda over the years about how those missiles are just nothing. It’s treated almost as a little prank Hamas pulls on Israel from time to time. When I’ve asked people with that opinion to put themselves in that place, to think about what it must feel like they just close off and say some version of, “well, they brought it upon themselves.”

[–]fantastic_memer 917 points918 points  (123 children)

Gaza is about to be gone. In every definition of the word.

[–]JDzero 245 points246 points  (100 children)

And then the cycle starts all over again.

[–]ConferenceLow2915 405 points406 points  (78 children)

Not sure even a massive amount of international pressure could stop Israel from outright annexing the Gaza strip at this point.

No one did anything to stop Russia from taking Crimea after all, and that belonged to an internationally recognized country.

[–]Plus-Mulberry-7885 738 points739 points  (38 children)

I will update: dozens of Israelis were kidnapped to Gaza, most of them were lynched by the palestinians.

[–]TheRedHand7 264 points265 points  (9 children)

Sadly they will likely all die or at least they will wish they had.

[–]metadouble 400 points401 points  (44 children)

Hamas, and more precisely, Iran, wanted a war to stop the almost certain normalization with Saudi and the rest of the region. Innocent Israelis and Palestinian will pay the price. Iran, as always, is the sponsor of terrorism in the region.

[–]NoCat4103 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Why would this stop. Israel and Saudi hate Iran.

[–]Small_peepee93 229 points230 points  (25 children)

History in the making, the eternal conflict continues, the world watches

[–]xnjmx 271 points272 points  (6 children)

The Hamas leadership are only interested in staying in power. When their people were building prosperity by working over the border each day in Israel they deliberately fired rockets and caused problems so this revenue stream was shut down. “Keep your people poor so they are destitute and remain loyal”. Much like the IRA playbook. Rhys preventing sensible dialogue with Israel.. Hamas and Hezbollah have no interest in their people, only in maintaining their power. And who funds these terrorist organisations? Iran of course.

[–]EyeOfBeholder2 212 points213 points  (45 children)

They have no idea the can of worms they just opened. The response is going to be massive and relentless.

[–]interested_commenter 188 points189 points  (6 children)

Pretty sure that was the point. Isreal and the surrounding Arab states have been moving towards normalized relations over the last few years. Hamas does not want this. This attack and the Isreali response are going to set those talks back a decade.

[–]Waste-Worth-1047 86 points87 points  (11 children)

Actually they do. I'm sure they hated the peace process that's going on right now in the region and wanted to throw a wrench in it. After this I don't see how Israel and Iran don't start going at it in a big way.

[–]purplebatsquatch221 93 points94 points  (4 children)

Lots of videos of hamas massacring innocent people in their cars

[–]Expensive-Picture500 556 points557 points  (65 children)

Why isn’t Israel’s iron dome stopping the rockets?

[–]pm_me_your_brandon 277 points278 points  (1 child)

It stops as many rockets as physically possible. It has been known from the get go that a zerg rush of a massive simultaneous launch would overwhelm it and some rockets will get through.

[–]BluishHope 1223 points1224 points  (0 children)

It does, most of the casualties aren't by rockets.
Besides that, no system is perfect. A battery can be overwhelmed with enough rockets at once.

[–]Mazcal[S] 777 points778 points  (34 children)

Over 5000 rockets were fired at Israel over the course of a few hours. It's still not bad for coverage.

[–]omegashadow 167 points168 points  (1 child)

The rockets are nothing. Sure it's a huge ammount in a short time but the total quantity and even the resulting blasts are par for the course. If it was only the rockets this would barely be news.

It's the ground terrorism and massacres that are going to make this a lasting moment in the history of the conflict.

[–]pm_me_pcb_photos 258 points259 points  (30 children)

Funny how they always have money for rockets and guns..

[–]aimgorge 291 points292 points  (19 children)

They have support from Iran

[–]Twoducktuesdays 178 points179 points  (12 children)

And Russia.

[–]opelan 97 points98 points  (10 children)

And likely a few more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Support

According to Middle East experts, now Hamas has two firm allies: Qatar and Turkey. Both give Hamas public and financial assistance estimated to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Qatar has transferred more than $1.8 billion to Hamas. Shashank Joshi, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, says that "Qatar also hosts Hamas's political bureau which includes Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal." Meshaal also visits Turkey frequently to meet with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Erdogan has dedicated himself to breaking Hamas out of its political and economic seclusion. On U.S. television, Erdogan said in 2012 that "I don't see Hamas as a terror organization. Hamas is a political party."

In May 2018, Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan tweeted to the Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu that Hamas is not a terrorist organization but a resistance movement that defends the Palestinian homeland against an occupying power. During that period there were conflicts between Israeli troops and Palestinian protestors in the Gaza Strip, due to the decision of the United States to move their embassy to Jerusalem. In addition, in 2018 the Israel Security Agency accused SADAT International Defense Consultancy (a private Turkish Private military company with connections to the Turkish government) of transferring funds to Hamas.

[–]nagrom7 67 points68 points  (4 children)

They don't, Iran is giving them the rockets and guns because Iran also wants to see Israel gone (and also wouldn't mind an Iranian friendly Palestinian state established).

[–]rapaxus 62 points63 points  (3 children)

Also, dumb rockets are very easy to make, especially if you like Hamas don't really care where it lands. Remember that dumb rockets like this existed in the middle east for nearly 800 years, it isn't something special.

Like, give me a few trees, some fertiliser, sulphuric and nitric acid, some metal tubes, a welding tool and some scrap metal and I could also make some dumb rockets in a week.

[–]CharonsLittleHelper 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Yeah - Iron Dome defenses are expensive, but rockets to shoot into the dome are cheap.

[–]PeePeeJuulPod 105 points106 points  (1 child)

probably the most rockets they’ve ever fired right now

[–]Lehk 71 points72 points  (0 children)

Missile defense doesn’t protect against terrorist raiding a bomb shelter and cutting people’s throats

[–]Blupoisen 73 points74 points  (0 children)

Because those are not just rockets

Some terrorists were able to go through the blockade and enter an israeli town

[–]kentucky_45ACP 1262 points1263 points  (88 children)

The sad thing is I actually support a Palestinian state. I'd go as far as to say that I even understand the necessity to resist military occupation. This just isn't that. It's thugs going on a murdering,looting and raping spree and claiming it's gods work. Many of the people they're attacking aren't in military clothing at all. Israel is obviously going to respond with overwhelming force. Any of us would demand the same of our nation's military.

[–]BitemeRedditers 115 points116 points  (1 child)

Hamas does not support a Palestinian state unless all the Jews are killed first. The people that elected Hamas leaders are going pay a terrible price for doing so.

[–]lordkemo 439 points440 points  (22 children)

This is the most logical take from my perspective. I supported a Palestinan state and understood how both sides could have been better. That being said, this did not help that goal (understatement of the century) even if HAMAS wanted a conflict, this isn't it. You won't unite the Muslim world, let alone the world world, with an attack like this. Sympathy for Isreal will be through the roof. Thousands will die because of this.

[–]AthJa2 274 points275 points  (8 children)

You won't unite the Muslim world, let alone the world world, with an attack like this. Sympathy for Isreal will be through the roof. Thousands will die because of this.

Another commenter posted about this earlier, Hamas is following the isis playbook. Make peaceful cohabitation between muslims and non-muslims impossible in the west. They plan to unite the Muslim world by isolating it from everyone else.

[–]lordkemo 72 points73 points  (5 children)

but it just won't do that. If you don't unite the UAE and SA on your side, it doesn't matter. Iran is a shell of itself. I'm not saying it's not dangerous, just that it does nothing without Russia these days. And Russia isn't getting involved and will tell Iran it needs material for the war in Ukraine.

Thats my take anyway.

[–]AthJa2 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Maybe the trigger for them to attack now is the israel-saudi arabia normalization talks? They're hoping this would make either side back down?

I wont pretend to understand it either though. maybe we'll learn more over the next few hours

[–]snaake07 1048 points1049 points  (101 children)

As a German with Palestinian roots I am terribly sad and sorry for the actions of Hamas. They are absolutely terrorist scum. This will get very bloody and there will be a lot of suffering on both sides. I wish people could just live in peace but unfortunately it seems the radicals always dictate the course.

This will get very ugly for the people of Gaza as well once Israel starts the counter attack...

[–]armchair_amateur 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Is it true that Hamas leadership does not even live in Palestine? They live in Qatar?

[–]Elitealice 1846 points1847 points  (241 children)

There’s people on my Twitter TL defending this too saying that “this is what resistance looks like. Ending colonialism isn’t pretty” yea, cause those innocent civilians had a lot to do with it.

[–]BUTTFUCKER__3000 351 points352 points  (8 children)

Twitter always turns into an even bigger shithole during stuff like this. I learned years ago to not read the comments on there.

[–]y6x 1264 points1265 points  (62 children)

There is no excuse for parading around a civilian's body, nor cheering the death of children.

That isn't resistance, and that isn't fighting a war to obtain territory.

That's being vile for evil's sake.

Anyone cheering it on is missing a key portion of their soul.

[–]youreadumbmf35 24 points25 points  (0 children)

They cut a child’s throat in the street and cheered. Their supporters are making excuses for them on Twitter.

[–]Far_Bandicoot5935 16 points17 points  (0 children)

THEY ARE IN THE MIDDLE AGES, FOR THEM INNOCENT BLOOD MEANS PROGRESS, THEY WOULD RATHER SEE ALL THEIR “ENEMIES” RAPED AND MURDERED RATHER THEN SEE ACTUAL SOCIETAL PROGRESS

[–]Khiva 139 points140 points  (7 children)

Oh, they're up and down this thread too, you don't have to look far.

[–]dumb_idiot_dipshit 892 points893 points  (117 children)

idiots. they've just set back the palestinian cause by about 15 years through losing sympathy, and signed the death warrants of the hundreds of innocent palestinians who will inevitably be murdered by the IDF and settlers in retaliation. what's the point?

[–]Mazcal[S] 813 points814 points  (32 children)

Game theory suggests that's exactly the point. Hamas isn't interested in sympathy or peace, or the palestinian cause. The goal is farther than that and the palestinian people are a tool - no more.

[–]Moifaso 347 points348 points  (24 children)

Yup. Hamas leadership wants this conflict to boil over, not to end.

They'd love it if the IDF started occupying all of Palestine and killing Palestinians in retaliation, especially if it led the local Arab states to intervene or (more likely) stop the ongoing normalization with Israel.

[–]Torifyme12 201 points202 points  (19 children)

The local Arabs aren't going to intervene this isn't the 70s anymore.

[–]Moifaso 95 points96 points  (18 children)

I'm 99% sure they won't, but Hamas definitely wants them or Iran to get involved.

[–]DunePowerSpice 110 points111 points  (12 children)

Israel would LOVE Iran jumping in. They'd get the golden ticket from the international community to bomb the fuck out of their nuclear program.

I can't imagine Israel would see that as anything other than a win for them.

Edit: thinking further on it, i bet KSA would love it too. They don't want Iran getting the bomb either.

[–]monkeygoneape 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Nobody outside of Iran, Russia, or China wants Iran to get the bomb, they're actually crazy enough to use it

[–]kentucky_45ACP 1332 points1333 points  (249 children)

The videos coming out of the area are like something out of a horror movie. People being dragging around naked. Its going to be hard to gather up much sympathy for even regular everyday Palestinians after this.

[–]Mazcal[S] 618 points619 points  (87 children)

In a week people will have forgotten how this war was sparked today.

[–]namitynamenamey 595 points596 points  (56 children)

Social media got the images of blood and deaths before the news could spread, there is no shaping this narrative beyond it being initiated by an unambiguous massacre. The tankie left and the far right will try, but they've started on the back foot.

[–]skiptobunkerscene 102 points103 points  (6 children)

Watch it. Theyll flee into conspiracy theories instead. You can see the seeds already. "How could this happen without the israeli Mossad and government knowing about it?", the quiet, implied part being of course that the evil jewish elite conspiracy allowed it and is thus at least as guilty. You can find that question posted in virtually every thread about this topic that gets more than a handful of comments.

[–]Amazing-Wolverine446 3433 points3434 points  (547 children)

Gaza is going to be turned to dust when this all ends. I’m not sure they realise just how hard Israel is going to strike back once they reorganise.

My sympathy for them is none right now, going about slaughtering civilians and parading their dead bodies around the street. These aren’t freedom fighters, they’re psychopaths

[–]NS8821 722 points723 points  (46 children)

They are celebrating civilian deaths, taking pictures with their dead body, posting on telegram, and people are love reacting it. Truly vile creature.

[–]Puzzleheaded-Hat-142 93 points94 points  (3 children)

Russian telegram channels are celebrating it as well. Literally posting the footage of an Israeli women with broken hands and legs and saying “she’ll die happy because of Israel no-visas agreement with U.S.”

[–]SofieTerleska 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Russia and Hamas are definitely a match made in, well, somewhere I don't want to be.

[–]worst_driver_evar 330 points331 points  (32 children)

Hamas’ foundational ideology is exterminating the Jews. Even if they’ve claimed to have moved away from this, this is who they are. Both sides of the conflict suck but one side would commit actual genocide if given the chance. This is what they’re teaching their kids so who knows when this will end.

[–]tempetransplant 2041 points2042 points  (259 children)

Going into air raid shelters (during an air raid caused by hamas rockets) to murder civilians is truly indefensible. They lost any sympathy I had for them too.

[–]IAmAccutane 204 points205 points  (0 children)

This was always, openly, their MO. They have been launching rockets at civilian areas for decades. Israel's Iron Dome has mostly been pretty good at shooting them down.

I've seen people try to justify the rockets as "fireworks" that don't have any actual military capability. This is what happens when Israel let's their guard down. It's not propaganda, their goal is to kill civilians.

[–]theBrD1 391 points392 points  (25 children)

That was always their intentions. Just this time they breached the border.

[–]the-mp 91 points92 points  (1 child)

Google the maalot massacre (edit: from 1974!). Or the constant suicide bombings in the early 2000’s. This shit has been going on for decades.

[–]Vv4nd 1499 points1500 points  (48 children)

Hamas has always been the faction of warlords and terrorists. They have probably killed more Palestinians than Israel so far.

[–]Mileonaj 461 points462 points  (35 children)

Well, they've just gotten many many more killed soon

[–]Mediocre_Pyke 177 points178 points  (4 children)

There should have been none from the start Hamas are terrorists, we can debate Israel Palestine till we are blue in the face but one thing should have always been clear, fuck Hamas.

[–]tempetransplant 58 points59 points  (3 children)

Agreed. Hamas deserves everything the IDF is going to do to them.

[–]nerokae1001 199 points200 points  (21 children)

There are people that defend hamas. A lot of people…

[–]PralineSolution 198 points199 points  (2 children)

Just watched a group of hamas soldiers leading away a young woman with her pants covered in blood on the back side, handcuffed. It's crazy that people will defend them "because they're the underdog" when they're literal fucking rapists.

[–]Random_Ad 387 points388 points  (77 children)

U had sympathy for them in the past? Having sympathy for the Palestinian people is one thing but for Hamas as well?

[–]pios456foo 287 points288 points  (7 children)

They don’t care. Hamas is a terrorist organization, like ISIS.

[–]lambchopdestroyer 108 points109 points  (23 children)

I only have sympathy for the Gazan civilians that don't affiliate with hamas or islamic jihad terrorist groups and just want to live their lives. You can't help where you're born, it's tragic that so many Israelis are dying and i fear that Gazan civilians will also suffer because of the Hamas escalation.

[–]gregsor78 189 points190 points  (48 children)

there might not be a Palestine left after this.